But those two being there now massively exacerbate the issue.
#veteran-class
hybrid plover
midnight wyvern
I don't really have a problem with it lol
tame lodge
Only 1800?
midnight wyvern
hollow ibex
That reminds me
hybrid plover
And the upping of spawns moreso exacerbate the issue but even if they were to dial back the spawns, vet tree still needs a touch up.
hollow ibex
I need to play my revolver exec stance build again
hollow ibex
is it the fan the hammer one?
Nah using Zarona because it’s a sniper build 
midnight wyvern
I just know the fan one can remove bosses from the planet
hybrid plover
Zealot honestly needs it more but it's not because zealot is a weak class by any means
hollow ibex
Revolver unironically a superb sniper
midnight wyvern
needa put an acog on it with weap customization
hollow ibex
I just use irons. And the force.
hybrid plover
If you even decide to go another direction that isn't top right into a god damn S to get to duelist and until death, the build is chalked, and it shouldn't be that way at all
midnight wyvern
Zealot tree feels so spread out when making a build
hybrid plover
Vet has this problem to a lesser extent, but it's still there. And it's been an issue before the game's state being what it is now.
Example.
Why the hell are smokes on the same side as infiltrate anyway
meager echo
zealot stun nade is strong af but it place in an awkward position in the tree haha
turbid ibex
Why the hell are smokes on the same side as infiltrate anyway
It fits thematically
hybrid plover
It fits thematically
I don't think it does.
I think being a stealth bomber with shredders feels more thematically appropriate.
While having smokes on the same side as Exe Stance actually makes more sense.
turbid ibex
I don't think it does.
I always saw right side of the tree on vet as a more skirmisher/guerrila sort of vibe with more underhanded tactics
midnight wyvern
While having smokes on the same side as Exe Stance actually makes more sense.
oh hell yeah, shoot them through the smoke
turbid ibex
While having smokes on the same side as Exe Stance actually makes more sense.
Other way around for me
hybrid plover
Why do you have to take one blitz and then possibly take a ton of tax nodes just to get to an aura you might want
turbid ibex
Why do you have to take one blitz and then possibly take a ton of tax nodes just...
Yeah thats a problem
Im not gonna disagree at all
hybrid plover
You don't even have to do much with the numbers of things. Just making it that nodes link into each other better would already make the tree infinitely better.
tame lodge
I just use irons. And the force.
"The Force" and it's just a cannon ball sized bullet
turbid ibex
You don't even have to do much with the numbers of things. Just making it that n...
Yeah thats the biggest thing ogryn and arb trees have over the others
hybrid plover
Yeah thats the biggest thing ogryn and arb trees have over the others
Not to say that the ogryn and arb tress also don't need work
But it's not that the tree setup is overpowered
turbid ibex
All the nodes are so interconnected that it gives a ton of freedom to the player to pick and choose what they want
hybrid plover
It's that the numbers are just ridiculously overtuned on both classes
turbid ibex
Which is way more fun than being locked into one path cause you cant affird otherwise
turbid ibex
It's that the numbers are just ridiculously overtuned on both classes
Ye ogryn and arb pretty much just need some number adjustments
Their actual tree structure is good
rough adder
That's a very narrow way to look at it. I'm saying the way stuff spawns is just not OK period, it devalues a lot of core mechanics and it needs to be changed. Trying to remodel the classes based on the current poorly thought out spawns will just make things worse, its not specifically about one node
turbid ibex
That's a very narrow way to look at it. I'm saying the way stuff spawns is just ...
Changing the way the spawns work wont change the fact their trees are just awfully designed
hybrid plover
That's a very narrow way to look at it. I'm saying the way stuff spawns is just ...
You're ignoring that the tree designs were shit before the game was in the state that it's currently in
It's been a problem for a long time now.
midnight wyvern
what core mechanics are being devalued?
hybrid plover
The problem has only shown itself more because of arbitrator, ogryn rework and the upping of spawns.
atomic void
That's a very narrow way to look at it. I'm saying the way stuff spawns is just ...
truth nuke
armor spam is bad
hybrid plover
I do agree that the current ai director antics are
A bit much at this point
But I don't think that means vet and zealot shouldn't get some sort of modern touch up to allow more freedom in what you can do with them.
midnight wyvern
I think psyker should too, but not before veteran, and veteran shouldn't get one before Zealot
turbid ibex
I think psyker should too, but not before veteran, and veteran shouldn't get one...
Agree
hybrid plover
Psyker just needs a complete rework from the ground up
Just a straight up fundamentally broken class
But that's never gonna happen
turbid ibex
Psyker def deserves a future rework but not like how zealot or vet need one
hollow ibex
armor spam is bad
No. I need them to justify taking kraks 😭
turbid ibex
I wouldnt mind which one of the two gets the rework first though
atomic void
they can still spawn them in decent numbers just no what we have rn
hollow ibex
Psyker def deserves a future rework but not like how zealot or vet need one
Yeh psyker needs a rework. And by a rework, I mean nerfs
midnight wyvern
I wouldnt mind which one of the two gets the rework first though
and they're not gonna do both lol
rough adder
You're ignoring that the tree designs were shit before the game was in the state...
Yes but my point is they shouldn't be modeled around the current spawn and should not be using the DPS capability of current ogryn and arbitrator as a standard.
hybrid plover
Yes but my point is they shouldn't be modeled around the current spawn and shoul...
No one is saying they should be
rough adder
what core mechanics are being devalued?
Give me a minute
midnight wyvern
like it makes sense, but ALSO just do the damn rework
steep flower
and they're not gonna do both lol
Imagine if they did; they would repair their reputation in an instant
midnight wyvern
^^^^^
hybrid plover
No one wants another arbitrator
turbid ibex
pace them out so you bring players back for each rework
Tbf it also makes it so feedback is more focused on that one rework
midnight wyvern
i mean
feedback can also just be focused with a
"zealot" or "veteran"
not like they don't have months between content drops as to have time for the same amount of information from the community to come out about either rework
hybrid plover
my thought process on this
dial ogryn and arbitrator back in pure numbers so they're not abrasively overpowered
rework vet and zealot trees to have more freedom and flexibility in build while also leveling them with the more nerfed versions of those two classes
dial back enemy spawns once all the classes are in a somewhat equalized state
turbid ibex
my thought process on this
dial ogryn and arbitrator back in pure numbers so th...
Pretty much yeah
narrow widget
"dont say a weak tree is a bad tree" is one of the statements of all time ong ong
hybrid plover
oh and delete psyker from the game
narrow widget
delete vet from the game
turbid ibex
Pink cat
narrow widget
who even plays vet anyway
hybrid plover
delete vet from the game
#nerfvet
steep flower
"dont say a weak tree is a bad tree" is one of the statements of all time ong on...
poor craftsman blames their tools
midnight wyvern
Pink cat
discord yelled at me that I had 2 boosts sitting around 
it wasn't wrong
void dragon
what numbers ogryn need down? I know Rumbler and some blessings need to be adjusted for being busted but what else is overtuned in ogryn kit? bleed on light attacks?
narrow widget
what numbers ogryn need down? I know Rumbler and some blessings need to be adjus...
tdr
void dragon
I say we kill em all!!!!
fear not, Obesefish will nerf them soon with the "Vet no more" patch
hybrid plover
what numbers ogryn need down? I know Rumbler and some blessings need to be adjus...
dr, tdr, the means of producing toughness
steep flower
I say we kill em all!!!!
They’re basically felinids in disquise so furries so ye kill’em
narrow widget
dr, tdr, the means of producing toughness
we should seize the means of producing toughness
turbid ibex
we should seize the means of producing toughness
Real
midnight wyvern
should they be able to maintain stacks on HH with lights?
void dragon
They’re basically felinids in disquise so furries so ye kill’em
Nah, they are vets, so they care for animals, they are not themselves
but we should get some felinids
midnight wyvern
dont remember if they can gain them with lights but its still goofy
turbid ibex
dont remember if they can gain them with lights but its still goofy
You can
hybrid plover
dont remember if they can gain them with lights but its still goofy
yes
it's goofy
turbid ibex
Lights are 1 stack, heavies are 2 stacks
midnight wyvern
god thats dumb
hybrid plover
but ogryn moreso since as long as they're meleeing something, they can be virtually invincible lol
midnight wyvern
psykers are technically abhuman but I think someone already said to remove them
midnight wyvern
narrow widget
psykers are technically abhuman but I think someone already said to remove them
yea them too
remove everyone who isn't vet and zealot fr fr
void dragon
remove all the classes from the game, start anew with only humans like the Emperor planed
steep flower
press m1 to win the game basically
And ppl still suck despite this simplicity
No joke
hybrid plover
And ppl still suck despite this simplicity
dude I was mentioning it a few days ago
even arbitrator
midnight wyvern
imma bind dodge to M1
narrow widget
And ppl still suck despite this simplicity
how do you die in melee as an ogryn or arbites
steep flower
how do you die in melee as an ogryn or arbites
By being dogshit
hybrid plover
like I understand having a bad game once in a while
void dragon
And ppl still suck despite this simplicity
i saw arbys play like garbo and die just as much
hybrid plover
but no some of the arbitrators i've been playing with recently truly are just horrendous
midnight wyvern
consistently dying as ogryn or arbites has to be some cope
sudden cedar
You know what M1 spam teaches you? Yes, exactly, M1 spam.
Great, you can spam M1. Now, what about the rest of the game mechanics?
void dragon
You know what M1 spam teaches you? Yes, exactly, M1 spam.
can i sprinkle some Hold M1 from time to time?
hybrid plover
I recall the time that I got blasted off the map by an arbitrator shooting a barrel
steep flower
consistently dying as ogryn or arbites has to be some cope
I encountered ppl like that… they usually abruptly leave after a couple of losses
hybrid plover
and then I looked from his pov
steep flower
Cooncidence? Yeah nah
narrow widget
misses his entire magazine
holy gigachad get this man on helbore rn
midnight wyvern
I encountered ppl like that… they usually abruptly leave after a couple of losse...
had a group where the arbites would go of on his own because he was "splitting agro"
and get trapped half the time
void dragon
honestly the Castigator stance is so selfish of a move, it just makes you facetank stuff, doesnt really make you better at helping the team yet i see only that skill being used
midnight wyvern
steep flower
can i sprinkle some Hold M1 from time to time?
I even m1 on my paul build and its criminal how better it is than mk 3b club still
sudden cedar
@steep flower Thats why its the police ogryn.
hybrid plover
honestly the Castigator stance is so selfish of a move, it just makes you faceta...
you know what's funny
arbitrator is ridiculously overpowered for auric
right
sudden cedar
And they still fail.
hybrid plover
but absolutely no one wants them in havoc because their abilities just
aren't that good for team cohesion
so they're balanced more for havoc, while also not being balanced for havoc
steep flower
aren't that good for team cohesion
Wdym; i love nuncio
hybrid plover
i mean there's nuncio
midnight wyvern
but absolutely no one wants them in havoc because their abilities just
that and the players almost always suck
void dragon
And they still fail.
i swear i had to take a tank ogryn on a Havoc because the folk that i was trying to help hat GARBO frontlines so i had to do it myself, went from dying because no one helped to give him presidential protection
people just HATE to protect teammates
hybrid plover
but finding an arbitrator who actually wants to use nuncio is like finding a shiny pokemon
steep flower
that and the players almost always suck
No true grit either
midnight wyvern
A good arbites as a frontline or an anchor is a godsend
sudden cedar
Of course.
steep flower
but finding an arbitrator who actually wants to use nuncio is like finding a shi...
I am shiny 
midnight wyvern
I literally do not have to have a brain and we win
sudden cedar
Everyone wants support builds, but i feel like no one actually WANTS to play support.
midnight wyvern
but they're just so rare lmao
tame lodge
Nuncio is not even good 
void dragon
A good arbites as a frontline or an anchor is a godsend
one that wants to turn back and help the psyker clear its personal space is even rarer
turbid ibex
Everyone wants support builds, but i feel like no one actually WANTS to play sup...
Depends
hollow ibex
L block fodder take
tame lodge
Actually you can download the disco Aquilla mod
So hmmm
midnight wyvern
one that wants to turn back and help the psyker clear its personal space is even...
I had one that was always on the rear while a Shieldtauntgyrn held front, me and the zealot were just chillin
hybrid plover
the nuncio mod that makes it play dracula flow
void dragon
Everyone wants support builds, but i feel like no one actually WANTS to play sup...
Me like to be the big bro that protect lil humies, I have just been playing sparkhead more because ogryn is kinda busted
midnight wyvern
Actually you can download the disco Aquilla mod
So hmmm
that might get me to use nuncio more
steep flower
the nuncio mod that makes it play dracula flow
ANY music really as long as its 20 sec
turbid ibex
I am someone who does like to play support in games but mostly as a more offense focused support
turbid ibex
So im still doing shit while also making my teammates even better at killing
midnight wyvern
I am someone who does like to play support in games but mostly as a more offense...
I almost always fill roles in games, and usually people don't like to play support
steep flower
Making the nuncio play Crawling
I would slap some smt music
midnight wyvern
DT has been the only one where I have taken a more damage focused like
void dragon
I am someone who does like to play support in games but mostly as a more offense...
issue is that people want to be offensive quite ahead and away from the team, when there is plenty of baddies near the fragile sparkhead
midnight wyvern
role I guess
midnight wyvern
some things are also overpowered supports lmao, bulwark in SM2 was fucking insane with the banner giving full temp HP, no idea if thats nerfed yet but 💀
hollow ibex
Making the nuncio play Crawling
Imperial March
turbid ibex
DT has been the only one where I have taken a more damage focused like
I think the trees also help with making support builds more flexible
hollow ibex
Imperial Advance?
turbid ibex
At least in theory
hollow ibex
Whatever that epic Kyd track is called
turbid ibex
Because you dont need to pick the "support class" or stuff
hybrid plover
Whatever that epic Kyd track is called
Light of the Imperium?
rough adder
"dont say a weak tree is a bad tree" is one of the statements of all time ong on...
Stuff is only weak or strong based on circumstances, and the current circumstances make the game feels boring to play. So attempts to try to make it works better in the current circumstances does not improve anything in a fundamental way.
I think club ogryn is bad because it's mind numbingly one note, I think arbitrator is bad because its stats being so bloated overshadows any other aspects that can make it fun. I think armor spam is bad because it massively shrink the usefulness of non-anti-carapace melee weapons and getting hit by a crusher behind a crusher whose hammer clips through the crusher in front of it is stupid, and it's not gonna be solved by making everything anti-carapace because then the crushers' (already diminishing) role as a slow and tanky big pillar that draws away attention will be just entirely gone.
void dragon
Im still dreaming of a day i can make some cool build with Zealot and Veteran that doesnt feel the same but with odd ribbons (at least i have some neat smoker veterans so im happy)
steep flower
Whatever that epic Kyd track is called
Dude; every track kid does is epic!
He even composed for such obscure titles like Battle Chasers; Nightwar
midnight wyvern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLic2xw48lU&ab_channel=P%C3%A9terGul%C3%A1csi%28...
train music
hollow ibex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLic2xw48lU&ab_channel=P%C3%A9terGul%C3%A1csi%28...
Thanks that one
sudden cedar
Its the same damn song.
hollow ibex
Dude; every track kid does is epic!
He even composed for such obscure titles lik...
Yeah I’ve always liked him as a composer
rough adder
But I think I've been tunnel visioning all this time, I don't really disagree with you guys' point
Sorry guys for being so aggressive
hollow ibex
I think imperial march is the Star Wars track
turbid ibex
Data interference is a personal fave of mine
hollow ibex
Which is also a great track
midnight wyvern
pretty sure I saw a thing of an orchestra doing imperial advance
https://youtu.be/kKkkh1STZqs?si=wcKwhkWmev9SSrLX dont think its advance but still pog
void dragon
Warp traveler and Disposal unit are my favs of the tracks so far
midnight wyvern
disposal unit goes so hard
steep flower
I love derelict research track aka gloriana boss theme
turbid ibex
empires will burn (?) is also great
Will fall
turbid ibex
Peak track for a peak bossfight
rough adder
Warp traveller is really underrated
midnight wyvern
Warp traveler and Disposal unit are my favs of the tracks so far
ohh thats what that theme is called (warp traveler) banger
honestly this music is rivalling if not overtaking doom for me
atleast older dooms, dark ages music is ass
rough adder
atleast older dooms, dark ages music is ass
Infernal chasm tho
hybrid plover
But I think I've been tunnel visioning all this time, I don't really disagree w...
you're all good. your concern is genuinely valid
this game could be in a better state than it is right now
narrow widget
Stuff is only weak or strong based on circumstances, and the current circumstanc...
I disagree with the first paragraph you have here
obviously yeah stuff exists within the context of current darktide but also stuff like current rumblergryn and flame staff psyker should not exist in any context
just like how the weak trees of zealot and veteran shouldn't be a thing either; it's fine if the overall power level is brought down if it means we get more build flexibility
hybrid plover
and i hate the fact that it's been so power crept that fatshark just keeps upping things to balance that fact
midnight wyvern
they dont want to go down because people don't want to feel weaker
you may understand that it'd be more healthy for the game but the larger community that mind you, sucks with arbites
doesn't want things brought down all to the same level to basically redo the game as a whole because its actually what it needs
crusher as the example there as the "big pillar slow and tanky" as its role, people kill lots of that they feel powerful, you lower the amount of them and make them more tanky or act differently in a way, you lower the feedback in a way
tiktok brain community
I get it now
btw im not saying dont do it, im just trying to play one of the bulbous fish's possible viewpoints on it
rough adder
you're all good. your concern is genuinely valid
Thanks. Also on the side note is there a reason why i cant react emote
rough adder
Oh
midnight wyvern
probably grey
rough adder
Why am I grey
midnight wyvern
not yapped enough
rough adder
Ah
narrow widget
or they blocked you lmao
react to what
midnight wyvern
messages
hybrid plover
Thanks. Also on the side note is there a reason why i cant react emote
probably cuz grey
midnight wyvern
hybrid plover
just talk more and you'll get there
midnight wyvern
its not that much, one of the more understandable and lenient anti spammer/botting/raiding limits
void dragon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/206466559672188928/1336144554323218454/Si...
me when about to take the felinid into Atoma
hybrid plover
honestly, it didn't take long for me to become red
it helps being autistically fixated enough on this game that i actually want to be active in this chat lmao
midnight wyvern
zealot chat not included, there is actually some decent takes and helpful people in these chats, unlike most other communities
usually the main discord of a game is filled with 
I was there and I still don't know why it died so hard
im guessing skullcrusher/taunt damage node with maybe nodes from both ogryn and arbites for enemy taking more damage when staggered?
bro got uninstalled
orchid hemlock
zealot chat not included, there is actually some decent takes and helpful people...
I'm actually thinking about getting back into HD2
Is the community as cursed as I remember? 😈
midnight wyvern
yes
the slow timers are now 5 minutes on every chat
its only gotten worse
nothing against Xbox players I think its everyone else
void dragon
bro got uninstalled
when arby and ogryn are near, bosses just...disapear
midnight wyvern
I'm actually thinking about getting back into HD2
Is the community as cursed as...
I have been running the explosive vest armour lately and the amount of times people kill themselves from TK'ing me
makes it worth it every time
void dragon
also weakened enemy so there is that
void dragon
one of the reasons why arby is so busted: its damage amp on staggered is quite absurd
midnight wyvern
I was on a bit of ping there as they were in asia so maybe 5-6 which is on par with what my max stacked damage has been, but thats not from the get go lol
steep flower
@midnight wyvern i can show da clips now cause home 
steep flower
midnight wyvern
that fov is nice for melee, being able to see your arms more
weird for ranged, the gun is so far away lmao
sudden cedar
Where is your strength?
midnight wyvern
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17756646369299896640/C34689A3AB0603544E9C9C...
ammo dispenser lol
midnight wyvern
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/17845002838713525009/979F3EFCB77C6E38C0DACE...
nice
midnight wyvern
the plague ogryn bonk lol
faint beacon
steep flower
the krak stagger is actualy viable
void dragon
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/18115494911248531286/9CAF9011C67F20A04FC0A1...
Krak nade being helpful (it does less and cost ammo TT_TT)
midnight wyvern
I swear my teammates have no clue how it works
faint beacon
https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/l6y0YJk2RQnAKpbZu?invite=c...
Being reminded the sheer disappointment in my tone last night watching this live
steep flower
just nice seeing people actually back away from the burgle too
we are smart
midnight wyvern
sometimes I froget how big the DH agro range is
faint beacon
sometimes I froget how big the DH agro range is
It wasn’t that
midnight wyvern
frog
void dragon
we are smart
more than the averange bear
midnight wyvern
It wasn’t that
no like, the mod lol
sudden cedar
Why wouldnt we back away from the Beast of Nurgle?
midnight wyvern
huge radius around it lol
faint beacon
Oh yeah the thing is fucking huge lmao
midnight wyvern
https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/l6y0YJk2RQnAKpbZu?invite=c...
3rd person mod kinda cracked there
meager echo
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10513588410970686916/24581ABB73FEF716A89EFD...
juicy hit
midnight wyvern
https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/l6y0YJk2RQnAKpbZu?invite=c...
fucking assail
turbid ibex
3rd person mod kinda cracked there
2nd person mod when
faint beacon
<:OMEGALUL:442452782696366110> fucking assail
Immediately DCs
midnight wyvern
I forget I can turn off pings
faint beacon
Gets the other psyker killed
Queue me and the hotjoin Arby having to solo the event
midnight wyvern
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/10513588410970686916/24581ABB73FEF716A89EFD...
steep flower
i found a nice twin bonking clip
uploading...
@midnight wyvern Here it is!
@tall torrent You should see it too; knowledge about dmg cap being applied in practice
https://streamable.com/4t2qix
steep flower
also 1hp and a dream
that mutant caught me off guard
midnight wyvern
first charge it didn't seem like it had sound so fair enough
steep flower
also that normal heavy swipe on plasma twin; it was calculated to stagger him & get extra time
steep flower
first charge it didn't seem like it had sound so fair enough
sound can bug out due to many audio ques
like you just say the very first word of the voiceset you say upon using it and then its silence
like
BLOOD~
then its silence
XD
midnight wyvern
lol
yea definitely had all of them
still shit
game can't keep up lol
I gotta wait like 4 hours until my side of the planet has a playerbase again
🙄
steep flower
I gotta wait like 4 hours until my side of the planet has a playerbase again
murika?
midnight wyvern
nah australia lmao, apparently they like to sleep when its 3am
midnight wyvern
america it'd be afternoon
why rager so short
just a lil guy
I know the tunnels on the prismata crystal mission make enemies small but this is not that mission and wouldn't be a anywhere near that lol
steep flower
why rager so short
the rage is concentrated more in smaller packets
@midnight wyvern @tall torrent From a successful True Survivor run 
https://streamable.com/dushuq
orchid hemlock
I have been running the explosive vest armour lately and the amount of times peo...
I've always taken medic
Because when you are high you can't die 👏
sudden cedar
@steep flower The scuffed twins fight
frank basin
I'm actually thinking about getting back into HD2
Is the community as cursed as...
Discord server is still cesspool
In-game Pubbie play bugs will deplete reinforcements slight faster
topaz lance
cannot wait for the nerfs that are coming to this OP class next week
we need more tax nodes on the tree, it's too convenient to get to the good stuff
pseudo fiber
that power sword? Just get rid of it!
hollow ibex
This is the way
pseudo fiber
welcome back pre class rework end game
sudden cedar
Can't be 4 vets when iam a zealot
tall torrent
<@993407787663102052> <@366562874039992331> From a successful True Survivor run ...
Yea this thing is not actually good vs carapace
It’s just alr
steep flower
Yea this thing is not actually good vs carapace
thats why i slap carapace dmg on to mitigate that (you wanna go for headshots anyways so cara is obvious with unyielding)
tall torrent
thats why i slap carapace dmg on to mitigate that (you wanna go for headshots an...
Yea with carapace damage perk it’s just alr vs carapace
frank basin
Did plasma got nerfed today?
tame lodge
Never
frank basin
Or have to wait that update
mortal aspen
Power Falchion better come with some vet nerfs
tame lodge
Or have to wait that update
Nothing ever happens
frank basin
People already read and spoke about plasma light attack nerf
tame lodge
But to be more clear
frank basin
And dueling sword rework
tame lodge
No nerf happened today
tame lodge
Those were leaks and not set in stone
frank basin
From Chinese if I remember
tame lodge
Yup
frank basin
tame lodge
But yeah
Nothing ever happens
frank basin
But yeah
Nothing ever happens
tame lodge
Fatshark reworks plasma to be less M1 spammy
But I don't fucking care because blaze Away Optimized Cooling is M1 spam build
tall torrent
Gonna wait for sep23 update before updating guide further
DK2 dropped surprise update today
frank basin
How you still dedicate Darktide game?
tall torrent
frank basin
Is like you’re bound duty to it
tall torrent
I like the game
frank basin
You like Darktide and never get bored of it
tame lodge
Is like you’re bound duty to it
tall torrent
You like Darktide and never get bored of it
It has that depth yea
frank basin
Well, I’m now playing different game with modding the game with Darktide weapon on it.
orchid hemlock
Discord server is still cesspool
I got banned from there so I don't care 😈
orchid hemlock
I'm just wondering if the actual IN GAME community has improved
Or is it all just guys in their 40s making loud ass military calls while a party is going on in the background
frank basin
I'm just wondering if the actual IN GAME community has improved
Is still 50/50 skilless and skilled (+quitter soloist)
willow prairie
man tac axe on arby is sex
frank basin
From pubbies
orchid hemlock
I heard that you can solo carry if you know how to use the sniper properly
frank basin
I play with Chinese manage solo on 0 reinforcements but quit because the team died quick after reinforcements budget add every 2 minute
He’s live longer than rest of us
But late to carry the team
I means I also live little longer
Feel like #2
Oh right we fail mission because time ran out and I can’t reach to extraction after 2 minute dropped
Ship flew away
tame lodge
faint beacon
Bound by Dookie
orchid hemlock
Kinda more than bot
I thought bots everyone just folds
I always thought bots were just a skill check
People who actually understand how to position don't have any problems
frank basin
I thought bots everyone just folds
Bot fold if you trying attack their base and they spawn enemies ship but you can just run away far they are slow
Or going commando
Bug are like know where you at and constant harassing you
Acid spray stagger and deal damage
Rocket just not dot dmg
Just one tick dmg and ragdolling you
Open field is worst situation, which is I bring smoke. But open field for bug you could run away if you not wearing any heavy armor and with perk boost sprinting you could run far as long the stalker aren’t behind you
And smoke are useless against bugs
Bug is hit and run, bot is like you said positioning, and heavy armor
turbid ibex
did you guys see the new enemy unit for the bots btw
frank basin
War Strider?
faint beacon
Snipers?
frank basin
are you now Halloween skull shark?
hybrid plover
I do have to say
It does infuriate me how they continue to up the spawns in this game
While also aware that the sound in this game is still chalked as all hell sometimes
Playing VT2 recently has made me so much more aware of how bad it can actually be sometimes
hybrid plover
Literally just too much happening so the sound can't even be made
This is exclusively because of how dense the game can be sometimes
narrow frost
it'll be a DN
faint beacon
guys i'm 30% sure that next update has melta gun for vet
Veteran propaganda
We all know it’ll be for Arbitrator
slim pulsar
We all know it’ll be for Arbitrator
grenade launcher being added and going to arbites 😔
void dragon
This is a red herring
this is just new cosmetic for the Heavy sword
sly orchid
True
gale now that im looking at it
doesnt it look like the blade is translucent?
you can see the helmet through the blade
slim pulsar
maybe there's just a hole in it
faint beacon
Probably one of the marks
sly orchid
bigass guard too
slim pulsar
i think that's a power sword cable
sly orchid
huge loopedy loop
sly orchid
darktide uses integrated power supplys
faint beacon
Doesn’t help theres been 2 datamined different power “swords” that use the RB gauge system
slim pulsar
if that's a handguard it's comedically huge
sly orchid
Doesn’t help theres been 2 datamined different power “swords” that use the RB ga...
also a new framework for weapons
so 2 of the same weapon can exist but be totally different
faint beacon
if that's a handguard it's comedically huge
It’s Darktide I wouldn’t be surprised lmao
slim pulsar
true
faint beacon
Besides some of the customization mod options offer some comedically large hand guards
So it could possibly be that
faint beacon
Angle probably
That and it’s literally the only image of the weapon
Hasn’t even been officially announced so it’s all speculation
Added the fact there might be two enemies as well
Dreg Mauler exists
slim pulsar
i just want anything new man
faint beacon
Then whoever the hell the knock off captain is in the teaser trailer in the middle
Plasma Gunner? We don’t know
I’m still convinced they bashed models together just to make something look cool and not actually introduce a new scab unit
faint beacon
i just want anything new man
Bare fucking minimum I want weaker weapons tuned slightly
and I’m satisfied
serene bough
i would like more las weapons and a melta gun
tall torrent
Doesn’t help theres been 2 datamined different power “swords” that use the RB ga...
wdym
relic blade is powersword_2h_p1
power falchion is powersword_p2
these are the only power swords that use heat meter
faint beacon
relic blade is powersword_2h_p1
power falchion is powersword_p2
Probably got that confused then but wasn’t a second mark also found for Powersword_p2
tall torrent
Probably got that confused then but wasn’t a second mark also found for Powerswo...
yea
powersword_p2_m1
powersword_p2_m2
those are variants for the power falchion
faint beacon
That’s probably it then
tall torrent
just like how current power sword has 2 variants, mk III and VI
faint beacon
You ever think they’ll touch the MkIII seeing VI is literally just better in every way possible
sly orchid
Plasma Gunner? We don’t know
plasma squad
tall torrent
You ever think they’ll touch the MkIII seeing VI is literally just better in eve...
maybe
also it's VI not IV
faint beacon
Yeah I saw
Fixed it
I’m honestly assuming by the name cause I severely doubt it’s a Vet Rework
It’s probably going to be geared towards the Scabs, and a Vet Weapon
Ignoring the Mortis Content
void dragon
the plasma dude has a voiceline
do we know anything about the new plasma mob enemies? are we gettiung Shotgunners+?
sly orchid
absolutely nothing except for the update teaser
if theyre allowed to have the same mechanics as boss plasma hoo boy
get ready to really learn how to dodge
void dragon
get ready to really learn how to dodge
bold of you to assume i can tank a regular ass shotgunner as a scrawny sparkhead, dodge is part of me...
my team on the other hand... not even Arby can save them...
faint beacon
the plasma dude has a voiceline
The fuck is it then
rough adder
get ready to really learn how to dodge
I hope they fix the plasma gun logic for this update, because at the moment the visual and audio cue of the captain version of plasma gun is all over the place
faint beacon
Honestly that’s another top priority special lmao
Special that instantly sets your toughness to 0 no matter what
Aka immediately KOS
rough adder
It's probably gonna be an elite
faint beacon
Bombers, Flamers, and now this guy
sly orchid
The fuck is it then
Mentioning the plasma squad
rough adder
Special that instantly sets your toughness to 0 no matter what
So essentially shotgunners on release
narrow widget
I’m honestly assuming by the name cause I severely doubt it’s a Vet Rework
yeah by the name its an incoming vet nerf
#nerfvet
sly orchid
sly orchid
Its bleak
rough adder
That’s event
Or maybe it's gonna be a modifier where it spawns a lot of plasma gunners, and the enemy itself is added to the spawning pool too
faint beacon
Radio operator was never reintroduced
rough adder
Also wtf is a psychic bulwark
rough adder
Ah makes sense
slim pulsar
plasma squad just blowing you up immediately
trim badger
The two best DS skins are on the shop
rough adder
But radio operator is a little different in the sense that it's just a scab gunner with a different head and a radio strapped to his back.
trim badger
which one should I buy...
narrow widget
plasma squad just blowing you up immediately
xcom ufo defense ass
rough adder
This it looks like they have new models for it and it looks like a two handed plasma so it's not a copy from captain
faint beacon
plasma squad just blowing you up immediately
Ogryn and Arby players in shambles knowing Damage Reduction is not saving them from “gun that always sets toughness to 0”
rough adder
plasma squad just blowing you up immediately
Is it finally time for me to pull out my duck and dive + stripped down autogun vet?
faint beacon
Is it finally time for me to pull out my duck and dive + stripped down autogun v...
I mean it’s an option
If you’ve gone up against Rodin enough times youll realize plasma isn’t that bad
But I can see how bad it can be in like a group of 5 of them
Lmao
sly orchid
Plasma hits like a truck so youll also get massive knockback
rough adder
I just feel like plasma seems to be incredibly inconsistent
narrow widget
yo ur red now
primal zealot
which one should I buy...
both cus its based
rough adder
Nice
For shotgunners I can just dodge based on pumping sound
For shooters I can dodge based on radio sound and the flash.
Plasma gun has a charge up sound and a flash, but which one I should base on to dodge is never clear, sometimes one or of them does not happen at all, sometimes the two have different order
I can't even rely on dodge sound because there are cases where I hear the "swoosh" dodge success sound and I get shot anyway
rough adder
Yeah that's how it's supposed to work.
The issue is there are cases where i see a flash, dodge, hear the dodge success sound, and then get shot anyway. it does not happen too often but it happens often enough for me to notice.
That's why I say I hope they fix this
People barely noticed it on captains and rodin because most of the time we're in melee with them
Or maybe it's intentional, I don't know
sly orchid
Flash is usually followed with a shot immediately
Also a very distinct sound
faint beacon
Yeah that's how it's supposed to work.
The issue is there are cases where i see...
Sounds like it could be a latency issue
rough adder
Could be
faint beacon
Besides if you want to be extra safe dodge sliding will guarantee they’ll miss
Issue it eats 2 dodges
turbid ibex
psark
trim badger
get the fuck out of the table you fat fuck
hollow ibex
he's just taking a nappy nap
void dragon
"draw me like one of your Terra noblewoman"
trim badger
both cus its based
did it
old cobalt
Why tf would I ever use the MK VIc Recon Lasgun over the Mk XIV? Just looking at the statline, havent used it
33% less damage, 2 magazines less in the reserve
hollow ibex
33% less damage, 2 magazines less in the reserve
it fires a lot faster tho?
VIc is the best all-rounder
XIV also has effectively half the mag size
old cobalt
Fair enough. There's no "Fire Rate" stat so i didnt see a change like that
hollow ibex
might be hidden away in the detailed info
old cobalt
so that also means the XIV has effectively the lowest ammo capacity
hollow ibex
old cobalt
at 380 Shots vs 564
hollow ibex
if you're not sure you can check the HOTE guide in the pins
hollow ibex
so that also means the XIV has effectively the lowest ammo capacity
yeah
tho obv hits harder per shot
hollow ibex
honestly all of the recon las are good
VIc for all-rounder gameplay
XII for rapidly stacking infernus and brrrrrt memes
XIV for cleave and deadshot synergies
old cobalt
what about for the Mk. 7/9 Infantry Lasguns?
elder vessel
it fires a lot faster tho?
I remember the high fire rate one only uses 1 unit per shot, so its actually the best ammo
old cobalt
if im reading this right the 9 just shoots fairly slower and does more damage
elder vessel
But I might have that wrong
elder vessel
probably i hate recons they are boring to me
elder vessel
why yes I do like to stand there holding m1 to kill things that is enjoyable
old cobalt
I picked up the Vraks for Scrier's Gaze psyker and
holy shit
do I love holding down the trigger and deleting a hallway
elder vessel
hold down the trigger and let the braincells fade awayyyyy
elder vessel
bistol
elder vessel
i dont use assault rifles like ever but
yeah the teal one XII uses 1 per shot, XIV uses 2 and VIc uses 1 per shot
why am I studying recon lasgun science dont do recon kids it'll rot your brain
use a real man's high fire rate gun, the Brautogun
hybrid plover
i just fail to fathom how an ogryn manages to go through their entire rumbler reserve
at the first 10% of the map
faint beacon
at the first 10% of the map
Point and click adventure
hollow ibex
i just fail to fathom how an ogryn manages to go through their entire rumbler re...
auto fire macro and hold down LMB, goes pretty quickly
hybrid plover
auto fire macro and hold down LMB, goes pretty quickly
see, I understand that
But does that mean you should do that
in a h39 mind you
yeah I'm just gonna put down havoc for now lol
vestal ember
Hi, do i need specific perks on weapons for different types of enemys? or are thy all th same in the missions?
hollow ibex
Hi, do i need specific perks on weapons for different types of enemys? or are th...
you don't NEED them, but picking the right perks will make your weapons be more efficient
vestal ember
you don't NEED them, but picking the right perks will make your weapons be more ...
how do i know what kind of enemy is in the mission?
hollow ibex
how do i know what kind of enemy is in the mission?
check the psykanium
when you hit something, it should indicate the armor type
flak and maniac are the most common armor types
so they're common picks for perks
carapace is found only on elites, such as crushers
unyielding is for ogryns and bosses (where they aren't armored)
and then infested are on dogs and some poxxers
unarmored is on some human enemies that don't have armor, and aren't maniacs
hybrid plover
unarmored actually contests maniac for most common since that covers groaners
hollow ibex
unarmored is fairly common too yeah
hybrid plover
that and a fair amount of weakspots on some enemies being unarmored
main appeal of maniacs is dealing with a wide variety of specialists
hollow ibex
yeah and dreg ragers
rough adder
Hi, do i need specific perks on weapons for different types of enemys? or are th...
Also to add to the point others already covered, you can inspect the weapon and in attack breakdowns you can see how much damage each attacks do against each armor type.
This can help you decide if the weapon needs a perk for specific armor type or not
umbral scaffold
How do ya all feel about the hellbore lasgun?
It seems like a decent weapon, but I rarely see it ran. Is it just outclassed by basically everything else?
narrow widget
if you can aim it's the best weapon on vet
unreal nova
How do ya all feel about the hellbore lasgun?
It seems like a decent weapon, b...
Is actually good, but clunky to most.
hollow ibex
How do ya all feel about the hellbore lasgun?
It seems like a decent weapon, b...
very good but still not exactly easy to use
unreal nova
Basically needs a mod to auto charge if you want it prepared to fire.
umbral scaffold
Ahhhh ok. It’s a weapon I’ve tried and never found too great, but I admit I never levelled it up to max.
Might be worth looking into it finally. I have a sick pleasure in using weapons that aren’t meta.
spark helm
It's definitely in the class of ranged weapons for veteran that encourages the pilot to get better for lots of rewards tbh.
hollow ibex
it's one of the few vet weapons where you can just fire your gun all game and it might be acceptable
umbral scaffold
lol. Gotcha. Do you guys know of any good builds for it?
hollow ibex
this is a pretty solid all-rounder build for helbore
run with taxe mk7
i don't recommend running ES unless you want a challenge
tropic notch
@tall torrent how important is superiority complex for tac axe, ps, and dbarrel?
hollow ibex
and are very comfortable with the weapon
umbral scaffold
Thank you!
frank basin
i have mod the realism this time
(didn't give light attack heat meter instead slight longer cooldown compare charge attack)
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> how important is superiority complex for tac axe, ps, and ...
power sword it helps
other 2 not by much
rough adder
i have mod the realism this time
I'm curious how did you get the sound file
frank basin
I'm curious how did you get the sound file
in-game recording
umbral scaffold
Anyone know what the dump stat for hellbore is? I’
unreal nova
Anyone know what the dump stat for hellbore is? I’
Stability.
umbral scaffold
Wow. I rolled a perfect acquisition on the first try.
Bam.
I keep seeing blessings for hellbore are surgical and onslaught. But onslaught seems to be…gone?
hollow ibex
it's called weight of fire now
hybrid plover
Stability.
stability if not using shock troop and surv
if you are, ammo is the dump stat
hybrid plover
you'd be surprised how much stability can affect centering your shot
and it is
extremely hard to actually run out of ammo with both of those two together
willow prairie
piss
midnight wyvern
Time to spam Terrifying Barrage
what's it best used on for this kind of thing lol
grand perch
Nowhere
midnight wyvern
https://tenor.com/view/prove-it-proof-patrick-star-spongebob-spongebob-meme-gif-18140011542991964976
gleaming adder
Vets about to get one power sword variant and the devs goes silent for their 5 month vacation
fluid gust
They're releasing one more update after this one
Besides, the new power sword doesn't seem like it'll be a mark, seems more likely it'll be its own weapon family.
gleaming adder
Is it bad to be dissapointed?
grand perch
No, since hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
So just skip that step
gleaming adder
They're releasing one more update after this one
Within the year?
fluid gust
Yeah
They said 4 updates this year, this'll be the third
And they've done 4 updates earlier years as well
gleaming adder
I'm hoping veteran gets an actual primary for once
fluid gust
Two in the spring, two in the autumn
gleaming adder
something that is actually a guard weapon
fluid gust
Technically the melee weapons are the primary weapons
grand perch
You already got Guard accurate melee weapon - the gun stock bash
soft trellis
midnight wyvern
pseudo fiber
something that is actually a guard weapon
I know right imagine if we got a power falchion or something
midnight wyvern
level 1100 ogryn, level 700 vet and a level 80 arbites in auric
arbites repeatedly dies, ogryn and vet spend all of their ammo on shooting pox bursters
bonus points if they're getting pushed by friendlies
actually nuts how people refuse to learn no matter the thousands of hours they put into a single character, let alone the game
celest delta
I know right imagine if we got a power falchion or something
yeah imagine if they put the vet holding a power falchion in the teaser in the launcher. that'd be cool
pseudo fiber
yeah imagine if they put the vet holding a power falchion in the teaser in the l...
That'd be impossible
celest delta
hah yeah, like that'd ever happen 😔
spice shard
something that is actually a guard weapon
Imagine if we got a lasgun
tame lodge
what's it best used on for this kind of thing lol
Electric Staff
But only if you spam m2
And on moebian 21st modifier
winter grove
something that is actually a guard weapon
What can veteran get at this point?
Pretty sure 90% of guard uses chain swords and axes
winter grove
What do tempestus use as melee again?
midnight wyvern
Electric Staff
Meat
tame lodge
(still not worth using Terrible Barrage)
midnight wyvern
im only gonna use terrible bawwage now
grand perch
Terrifying bUwUge
pseudo fiber
Group madness
turbid ibex
Terrible bar
tall torrent
What do tempestus use as melee again?
power sword
power fist
turbid ibex
Pist
topaz lance
I want a pump action grenade launcher for vet.
sharp hamlet
Me, waking up to yet another day where vet doesn’t have the stubber shown in the class tree art (a volleygun would also be acceptable though):
midnight wyvern
power sword
power fist
power gun
what does a power fist on a normal human even look like?
odd
fading yarrow
Something to remember is that there's a controller inside and the fingers of the power fist are piston operated
tame lodge
Gimme a power fist and I'll rename my vet to MegaMan
Then this will be blasting through my speakers
That will get captured by my webcam mic
Which is then going to be open mic
tame lodge
🫡
Yeah I'm planning on having a copy Pasta ready
With instructions for muting and shit
steep flower
Thanos tier
void dragon
That's a really cool idea, but don't think I have a good Revolver build now that I think about it, been using Laspistol so I can pew more because melee in havoc can become quite dangerous
mortal zinc
Sounds neat. Certainly might be worth trying.
void dragon
If only ObeseFish wasn't afraid of success. We can only pray that new weapon is cool to do that, EVERYONE would lose their sheep.
tame lodge
Due to the minis
I've been thinking if Power Fist would be dual wielding a pistol
But that's just a recipe for disaster
Power Fist should be a dedicated melee
Otherwise you'd get Grenadier Gauntlet mechanics
💀
midnight wyvern
yea id rather it be its own thing
meager echo
I happened to run into a good arbi last game, he run nunico + shock mine. Actually feel pretty good. Rare moment...
midnight wyvern
I happened to run into a good arbi last game, he run nunico + shock mine. Actual...
I just had one just peacing out even though there was only 2 of us in an auric lol
he was just off on his own
meager echo
hahaha
sudden cedar
As they do
midnight wyvern
god I hate that this is part of the time I can be on lol
my servers are just so barren past like
11pm
gotta go find out how bad the ping is on american servers
meager echo
they should adjust nuncio cooldown to 45 or something.
That skill cd is way too long
hollow ibex
Ehhh it’s prob the most balanced arbi skill
The only thing I think should change is that the speakers should slowly follow the player
meager echo
or make it so you can move the nuncio but it has a cooldown, like 5s or something
midnight wyvern
gotta go find out how bad the ping is on american servers
playable but the first thing I witness is an ogryn called bonkdealer getting overheaded by a crusher
excellent
tame lodge
The only thing I think should change is that the speakers should slowly follow t...
The Arby's yearn for the chorus
🗣️
chorus
Only one voice
hollow ibex
I don’t! I love my nuncio
tame lodge
muted peak
Stealth is just
sly orchid
@narrow frost is this legit or the xp exploit?
sly orchid
trauma is level 7k normal
jesus
tropic notch
Wait till he meets Celine
heavy rover
Omg Celine Dion?
meager echo
that's some crazy number right there xD
sudden cedar
@heavy rover @tropic notch Celine Carter isn't it? Veteran player?
@narrow frost I don't like those types of speedruners
tropic notch
<@145757557099593728> <@651235527491584004> Celine Carter isn't it? Veteran play...
Zealot
sudden cedar
Must be thinking of someone else then
Or do i.
Does that player use the Female Judge by any chance?
sly orchid
<@145757557099593728> <@651235527491584004> Celine Carter isn't it? Veteran play...
celine zealot
arguably the worst player in the game
muted peak
There is a maul I often see at arbitrator's hands, is it the shock maul? Or a different weapon?
hollow ibex
They also get Maul (the personality)
midnight wyvern
TRUE
stuck gorge
they also get a mauler (the dog)
sudden cedar
@sly orchid How so?
sly orchid
Downs to basic poxwalkers and constantly leaves when downed
sudden cedar
Heh
sly orchid
Very high level too
midnight wyvern
yea, and its probably the best melee in the game lol
tropic notch
Does that player use the Female Judge by any chance?
I think so
tropic notch
Downs to basic poxwalkers and constantly leaves when downed
Where’s the pic of dorn crashing out on her
sly orchid
no clue
slim copper
muted peak
yea, and its probably the best melee in the game lol
can you send me a photo of it?_
the one I see usually looks like general shock maul
also, what perks and blessings are recommended for shock maul?
toxic reef
skull crusher high voltage I think
tall torrent
also, what perks and blessings are recommended for shock maul?
On arb, skullcrusher + high voltage
On other classes, skullcrusher + a stagger blessing
Because FatShark decided that you should not have a melee that can break rager combo
tough vine
surely im missing something
you want the weapon to cool down dont you?
and not (as it has done) kill you
tall torrent
This tooltip is wrong
What it actually does is
Critical attacks from plasma gun generate x(1-N%) heat when fired
It does not affect the pre-fire charging’s heat generation
tough vine
Critical attacks from plasma gun generate x(1-N%) heat when fired
Could you explain that as if i was five
tough vine
Critical attacks from plasma gun generate x(1-N%) heat when fired
Why is that a blessing though, sounds like a downgrade
tall torrent
Could you explain that as if i was five
If ur attack normally generates 10% heat when it’s fired
If it crits, with this blessing at tier IV, it would generate 4% peril when the shot goes off
tough vine
oh as in reduced?
tall torrent
Yea
tall torrent
Why is that a blessing though, sounds like a downgrade
This makes it so you can fire more shots until u have to vent
It doesn’t actually affect the rate at which you gain stacks for gets hot or rising heat
tough vine
If you can consitently crit
tall torrent
Because those blessings gain stacks at specific heat intervals
tall torrent
If you can consitently crit
Well. Gets hot gives up to 50% crit chance
tough vine
Interesting
And "charging" is venting?
Tbh if it's just holding down right click, I have no clue when I'm at full charge
void dragon
Charging is M2, fire with M1, special action is the venting of the gun, happens automatically when only M1-ing
tall torrent
And "charging" is venting?
no, the brief delay before a shot is fired when u press m1 to hipfire, and when u hold m2 to charge the weapon to then press m1 to shoot
heavy rover
at the very least, surgical
gentle lake
Got that
heavy rover
the second one is up to you
heavy rover
can't go wrong with weight of fire
gentle lake
Vet isn't as bad as I thought
gentle lake
I like executioners stance
for casual
though voice of command is more optimal...
It doesn't always give gold toughness right?
heavy rover
yeah if your toughness is empty then it won't give gold when you shout (I think)
gentle lake
how much damage do burn stacks do anyway
is it like bleed
The helbore doesn't have any penetration right.
hollow ibex
The helbore doesn't have any penetration right.
Has some cleave but not a lot unless you take hotshot
hollow ibex
how much damage do burn stacks do anyway
Decent amount but it’s shit on helbore
Infernus is really only used on Ilas and laspis
midnight wyvern
yeah if your toughness is empty then it won't give gold when you shout (I think)
only for allies
it refills your own toughness 100% and gives you the full 50 gold
allies can still regenerate toughness up to the new cap from the shout effect
which will give them gold
midnight wyvern
only for allies
it will also give them a burst of 50 tougho's off rip too
midnight wyvern
