veteran-class

[turbid ibex]

Wait

Beacon and martyrdom are on the same fucking path

[meager echo]

I enjoy playing havoc ~20 all kinds of build, i remember met a charge Thunderhammer zealot.

pretty good man

[heavy rover]

I remember meeting a psyker with devil claw sword in havoc. Absolute madlad

[turbid ibex]

Since i had nothing better to do heres the amount of grey nodes in each class tree
Veteran: 19 (plus 1 blue that is just a grey in disguise)
Zealot: 16
Psyker: 17
Ogryn: 9
Arbites: 5 (plus 2 disguised greys)

[tame lodge]

16
1+6 is 7
7 is Nurgles

Fatshark

You've done it again

[turbid ibex]

I dont get it

[normal bay]

The chaos gods each have a representative number. Nurgles is 7

[steep flower]

Field improv too

[steep flower]

I use that in h40 and its good

[midnight wyvern]

[narrow widget]

good
they must spread the good word of the bolter

[grand perch]

I wouldn't call spending an entire clip in full auto on a single pox bomber the "good" word

[midnight wyvern]

did it die?

if yes, how bad?

[narrow widget]

mag dump the pox walker

[midnight wyvern]

if enemy die when shoot, it was worth the ammo

[midnight wyvern]

I mag dumped a trapper last match out of spite

not quite as worth

[turbid ibex]

Not as funny as with beacon of purity though

Who the hell thought having beacon be on the same path as the keystone that wants you to stack wounds was a good idea

[analog mural]

Probably the same guy who thought anyone would actually take martyr's purpose

[unreal nova]

I mean, if it considered toughness damage at all, it would totally be worth it.

[turbid ibex]

Martyr's purpose at least kind of makes sense with the sort of "tank zealot" thing the middle path seems to be going for

The problem is that it doesnt work with the glass cannon zealot thing the middle path seems to be going for

Nor the gun zealot thing the middle path seems to be going for

It could maybe work with the support zealot thing the middle path seems to be going for though

[sudden cedar]

Its not a tank zealot.

In my opinion.

I see it more intended as a flavourful talent pick

The idea itself makes sense. As a Martyr, you endure pain and die for your cause.

So, you endure pain and get benefits

However, since it is only health damage, it does not really work out, since you never want to take health damage on purpose because restoring that is limited

[crimson wyvern]

holy aids, we beat this auric but the team cohesion was shite. Just people thinking they're John Darktide and playing the mission themselves and just constant chasing people around all the time

[sudden cedar]

And exspecially on Martyrdom that is even worse because your only safety net against bullshit is Until Death

And since it is triggered by being at 1-2 HP and taking CORRUPTION damage..

And by that i mean, corruption damage that will just corrupt your missing HP, not being fully corrupted.

If you are fully corrupted and have no Until Death, yeah.. good luck.

Because any damage you take might potentially kill you.

[turbid ibex]

Its still not helping with how much of a mess the middle path on zealot is

Well how much more of a mess it is

Its also baffling how martyrdom and until death are not on the same path

I hope the zealot rework will give each path a more distinct and cohesive identity to each other

[sour fossil]

Catachan skin when ?

[turbid ibex]

Yesterday

You missed it

[mortal aspen]

peak zealot talent design

[tiny badge]

Just started my vet class and now i need build ideas

Like whats the good talents on him

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984525651904176209/1414322299229966428/image.png?ex=68c12008&is=68bfce88&hm=03db7f7e76d62a2f9a373455ff24e63bd80a0c94120eabec8128087cdd69bfac&

Most of the other talents have at least 1 niche but notable use case

[tiny badge]

Wow thanks so much

This helpful af

[steep flower]

If it would be 8 sec it would be alright

But its 5 and its dogshit

[steep flower]

Skirmisher dislike detected
If the activation would not be impractical it would be great

[steep flower]

Also notable niche use & you don’t include exploit weakness?

Bruh

Same for 8 stacks for focus target

[tall torrent]

It’s ass

[tall torrent]

It’s also ass

[steep flower]

They have a use, niche one but still so yeah

[tall torrent]

Nah they rly don’t

Exploit weakness matters for like 1 weapon (DC sword) which will suck vs flak regardless if it’s taken

[steep flower]

I understand skirmisher tho; ain’t saw any build utilizing it

[tall torrent]

8 stack FT is just meat grinder meme

[steep flower]

Tac axe 2

[steep flower]

4,5% increased buff from redirect fire

[tall torrent]

It’s not relevant enough

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s ass

[steep flower]

Still a use

[tall torrent]

RF itself is 1 point for 7.5%

8 stack doesn’t push RF over breakpoints on anything

[steep flower]

Its for the team but then again you rarely use the word ‚team’

So its ok

[hollow ibex]

I mean that’s really shit value for one talent point

[steep flower]

True but still has a use which is the main argument

Unlike skirmisher

[tall torrent]

You need to not tag anything for 14s to max 8 stacks so u can kill 1 thing a bit faster

And the 4.5% team-wide damage bonus is just not worth investment when it affects no breakpoint on any character

[hollow ibex]

Skirmisher has some meme value

Though I hate it

[tall torrent]

There is no arguable good use case for it

[grand perch]

tac axe tho

[tame lodge]

Just CRIT bro

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-see-you-later-thanks-gif-18769401

[tall torrent]

Yea not super relevant
Only helps vs carapace and it’s not high enough benefit to be worth vs rending strikes which works all the time

[unreal nova]

Papa, that's 10 DPT on frags.

[grand perch]

youre forgetting unyielding

[tall torrent]

It has ok unyielding adm actually

[naive needle]

Found a new shovel, now doing like 55% more damage if the stats ingame are even vaguely accurate

Gone item level 190 → 460

[normal bay]

If you mean the weapon stats, thats not how they work.

The damage from 0-80 is a limited amount. A 0% weapon will still do damage lol

[grand perch]

fuck me and my misremembering brain

[hollow ibex]

this stat is also basically meaningless

[naive needle]

No, where it says your light/heavy attack damage

[hollow ibex]

those are wrong half the time anyway

[naive needle]

My light attack number is 55% bigger

Well hopefully its still better at smashing heretics

[normal bay]

Darktides damage system is a bit more complicated

[hollow ibex]

should be

just be careful about taking the stat cards at face value

it lieeeeees

[sudden cedar]

@hollow ibex link any reddit post showing a weapon with 0% damage modifier claiming said weapon will deal no damage.

[naive needle]

complicated, or just obfuscated?

[turbid ibex]

Both

[atomic void]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Hdy8WqGrnBM?si=ujztr_zzcezRStgT

[grand perch]

its so ova

[plain osprey]

Why the fuck would anyone in their right mind want a battle pass? That mechanic sucks ass.

New class is finally playable and yet 80 percent of the dipshits playing it still manage to die with it in difficulties like damnation and auric

[naive needle]

wtf is the point in a battle pass? I saw they added one to war thunder when I played that and I just don't get the point in it, I would spam press esc to make it fuck off

[plain osprey]

Also, what continent/region are they playing? I play european servers at any times of the hour and always get teammates

[naive needle]

I want to destroy heretics, not look at a battle pass

[plain osprey]

True. Battle passes are stupid.

[turbid ibex]

Player retention

[unreal nova]

Certain regions are kinda dead. You get games only during very specific periods of times and it's basically auric or solo with bots.

[plain osprey]

Thank the sweet lord Europe doesnt seem to be one of those regions

Although i have to contend with russians.....

So i guess there is a price to pay

Although tbf most of them are ok

[unreal nova]

Also, not everyone wants to deal with 300 ping so... actually ded game for them.

[plain osprey]

Yeah, ok, i get that

Battlepass is still cancer though

I hate that concept

[unreal nova]

I know, pay to unlock and the pay more or GRIND like mad is stupid.

[plain osprey]

Well, i am kinda old school. I buy a disk, i put it in a disk reader, i play the game and own it forever. Thats what i like. Everything else are just begrudgingly made compromises of a time that outgrew me (yes i am a grumpy conservative, dont ask, )

[torn inlet]

*until the actual material self destructs over time

hardware storage is limited

piracy is forever

[plain osprey]

By that time i shall have moved on myself or lost interest in the game

[plain osprey]

[meager echo]

xD

[narrow frost]

its targeting the bot which is in a unreachable path for the DH

this is the way to cheese a DH

find spots they cant path/teleport

[meager echo]

that DH tp to the air lock tho

[narrow frost]

they can

airlock is a place they can TP

[tropic notch]

Who are these people

[grand perch]

mourningstar randoms

[fresh spire]

does the plasma gun shoot twice with 1 left click sometimes?

is that like an intended feature or some networking shit

[spark parrot]

Bros edging the daemonhost

[tall torrent]

No

[fresh spire]

must be a bug on my end then

sometimes i left click once and it shoots 2-3 times

[slim copper]

Could be buffered clicks

[fresh spire]

thats probably why

[slim copper]

That's what happens when I use plasma gun at least, I'll think I clicked too early and click again

[sour elbow]

I know zealot's skilltree is getting a look over, do you guys think veteran will?

[slim copper]

Best we can do is a new shovel variant with a flat head and swapping attack angles with another variant

[naive needle]

But I like the current shovel

Shovel/infantry lasgun, my ammo seems to last really well

[fresh spire]

why would you ever run out of ammo with lasgun in the first place

that's not a shovel exclusive thing

[hollow ibex]

By 2030 surely

[turbid ibex]

Cause its actual ammo count is like 36/240 with maxed out ammo stat

[naive needle]

When the shovel kills most enemies you don't need many lasgun shots

[sharp epoch]

next year tm

[mortal aspen]

based and Ogryn pilled

[hollow ibex]

This is the way

Though shovel does not scale well into higher difficulties

It can work, just becomes more niche

[naive needle]

How high difficulty roughly?

[orchid hemlock]

The shovel on Ogryn versus bosses

[naive needle]

Recently started heresy

[orchid hemlock]

High difficulty for us is H 40 😈

[mortal aspen]

until you get to above Havoc 20, you can pretty much use whatever you want and it'll feel good\good enough

[hollow ibex]

I would switch off at damnation or higher

Don’t get me wrong it can still work

[orchid hemlock]

What in Tarnation? 🤠

[hollow ibex]

It’ll just take a lot more effort

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/knuckles-gif-26722749

Kinda easy honestly

It's just

🛌

[orchid hemlock]

Fatshark give us Havoc 80 and my life is yours

[turbid ibex]

H41

[orchid hemlock]

You know what, just make a game mode where if a fly touches us we insta die

No wounds

[fresh spire]

that's what a melee weapon does?

this isn't a shooter game

it's melee with shooting elements

[mortal aspen]

unless you're psyker

💀

[toxic reef]

it's like only zealot that's bad at shoot

[tame lodge]

Yesnt

Duelist
Dance of Death
Anoint in Blood
Chastise attack speed
Then either Blazing Piety or IJ blessing

Oh and Ambuscade

But then you look at the tree

And those talents are scattered like crazy

[toxic reef]

I just flamer on majority of my zealots

[sour elbow]

starter shovel is just so satisfying. Lovely 'thwak' sound. And the lasrifle feels great to use, they absolutely nailed it.

[turbid ibex]

ehh idk about the ilas

it bounces around way too much when firing

not to mention the relatively low ammo count and mobility

again why the hell does the ilas have near identical mobility stats to the fucking bolter

[sour elbow]

I take it with executioner's stance and hilighting humanoid enemies. Lets you just plink the entire room of ranged standard enemies.

Plus the recoil isn't that bad

[turbid ibex]

it is when you compare to literally any other lasgun

recon and laspistol pretty much stay completely still when firing

its night and day difference

[hybrid plover]

It's the primary reason no one uses ILas tbh

Also, the "muzzle flash"

Can't see shit when you're firing it.

[turbid ibex]

the deceptively low ammo count and bolter mobility doesnt help it either

[slow spade]

yeah it got powercrept hard

one of the lasguns has almost never changed since release

if you look at the high damage, low firerate lasgun, you can see how the balance was at release because that was the strongest or 2nd strongest vet ranged option until like Patch 13 lol

[turbid ibex]

its not even just about being powercrept

it just doesnt feel good to use

[tall torrent]

u can skip the vet and it'll still fit

[turbid ibex]

it should at the very least have way more ammo, not lie to you about your ammo count with that stupid gimmick of consuming more than one ammo per shot, have better mobility than the fucking bolter, and not have its aim bounce around so damn much

[tall torrent]

it was the best / 2nd best gun up till patch 13

[hollow ibex]

It feels bad to use and its power crept as hell 🔥

[slow spade]

true but wasn't certain

it really highlights how much spawns got upped in the years

like the high damage, low firerate lasgun used to counter most enemies with ease and with your Infinite cleave, 3 base charge power sword (got giga-nerfed lol) even crushers were easy

[tall torrent]

the only guns equal in power were boltgun and autopistol

and both were largely because pinning fire gave u turbo str

[slow spade]

+100% Strength

iirc shredder pistol used to hit 200+ damage shots

the old days of casual +50% strength....

I found my old vet pics. I remember when this was considered a really good lasgun 😭

[heavy rover]

ah, the locks, back in the days when we went gambling for Hadron's plasteel addiction

[slow spade]

ah the "good" old days...

[tall torrent]

the rating number actually annoys me so much
same reason I hate borderlands 3's gear score

[slow spade]

yeah besides the 380 for stats, it was just pointless fluff

[spice shard]

Gear score in BL3 was useless, made it easy to tell what was a hacked item given it couldn't go over 621

Yes thats the max number for score in BL3

[formal ice]

How yall Vets feel being the 1 worse class

[spice shard]

Skaven you're here which makes you also a vet player

[formal ice]

I play all classes

I am normal

[spice shard]

Mhmm

[formal ice]

Now guess which class i have more cosmetics

Paid ones

[spice shard]

One from VT2

[formal ice]

No

In darkide

Fool

[spice shard]

Awful

[formal ice]

Disgusting

Dense

Babie

[formal ice]

Thank you for complimenting

[void dragon]

Normal? No you're not, you rat! (Do you enjoy the use of the chorus diva class?)

[formal ice]

What are you doing here

Ogryn fool

[void dragon]

Me honourary Sah, because I shoot gun good

[mortal aspen]

but Vet isn't Zealot

[formal ice]

Exactly

[tall torrent]

was that at launch or smth cuz weapons go to ~800 and other items can go to like 654 and 719

[void dragon]

Zealot is bad class that has power

[spice shard]

Yeah those are known as modded weapons

[tall torrent]

huh

I didn't mod BL3 I just put the game on mayhem 11

[spice shard]

Ah thatd explain it
Was going off pre mayhem

Post mayhem is 800 smth

[tall torrent]

pointless number honestly I hate it

[spice shard]

Can't go past like 829 on mayhem

[tall torrent]

any game where u gotta farm RNG to get a "high gear score" that says nothing abt the item's actual usefulness

I hate it

[tame lodge]

Vet and Zealot fighting for 5th place

https://tenor.com/view/crying-one-piece-anime-gif-4502646032764566609

(they both clear)

[hollow ibex]

Vet wins

Because vet never loses

[tame lodge]

Counterpoint

[tall torrent]

worst designed melee in the game bar none

[tame lodge]

Sorry
Can't hear you over monstrosity one shot

🗣️

[hybrid plover]

Thunderhammer in this game makes me sad.

The one thing it's good for honestly just makes it annoying imho

[tall torrent]

zealot-exclusive melee weapons give me great sadness

only relic blade actually good imo and it's essentially just a worse power sword

[tame lodge]

Everything is a worse psword 😭

[tall torrent]

and they're not gonna buff evis in a while cuz "we buffed it just recently"

[void dragon]

Congratulations! You made a meh weapon into meh+1 weapon, peak MorbidlyObeseshrimp

[hybrid plover]

Thing is, the thing that the thunderhammer is actually really good at, actually just makes it a buzzkill. Because naturally, someone would play thunderhammer in like a monstrosity auric

Which. Okay. You're the guy that's going to one shot the reasons that people are playing that modifier.

Cool. Awesome.

[steep flower]

Havoc

[hybrid plover]

It is not easy to use a thunderhammer in Havoc at all though.

[steep flower]

For alot of ppl yes cause nobody really gives a build… a good one that is

[hybrid plover]

Even for what it's good at, it's just incredibly mediocre if not just bad at everything else. So you're basically shooting yourself in the foot for any situation that isn't a monstrosity.

[steep flower]

We need to play again then one day

Been playing th in h40 and its a blast

Not just againts monsters

[hybrid plover]

Have you considered that maybe you're just very good at the game and can make something mediocre actually work?

Like I want it to be better!!!

[tall torrent]

otherwise he can't make talking points

player skill has nothing to do with how a weapon's inherent behaviour works

idk why he's not able to grasp this

[hybrid plover]

Hell if they made it worse for monstrosities just to make it a more versatile weapon, that would be a great way to get it in a better spot than it already is.

[steep flower]

If i can make it work so can others or so i think
Was sceptical too but, apart from dreg ragers, its farring alright

[tall torrent]

malice zealot players will review bomb

[hybrid plover]

God dammit, you're right

[tall torrent]

because they can't 1 tap a weakened plague ogryn in malice maelstrom

[mortal aspen]

Uprising Maelstrom when

[steep flower]

True but a man can kill even with a stick if he so wishes
Point is; despite overall lower ends one can make a weapon and a build good; now go back to polishing your PS

[steep flower]

Ppl will die there

[steep flower]

Ironhelm mark does that… its oof

[tall torrent]

"usable" is no substitute to "performing up to how it should"

like, u can play with chainsword with rev it up + bloodthirsty and never activate the thing

that is not unusable

[hybrid plover]

People can make it work for things other than monsters. I have.

But I also acknowledge that I'd rather have anything else for anything that isn't a monster because it really is just unfortunately mediocre for any other situation. And not in a good feeling way either.

[steep flower]

If only it had power cycler tbh it would have potential due to powerup cleaving through chaf

[hybrid plover]

There is no reason I should feel like I'm hitting hordes with a wet noodle.

That just happens to stagger.

When it's a God damned thunderhammer

[tame lodge]

Sounds like something I would do

[tall torrent]

power sword itself is a problem because when 1 stat stick is so ludicrously strong in every metric
the result is that no matter how many or how few melee spec talents there are for vet it'll almost always come up on top for majority of cases

[hybrid plover]

Its mediocre and not in the "it feels good to use but it's not actually great in numbers way"

[tall torrent]

stat sticks in general are big problems in balancing

[turbid ibex]

I'd much rather have a weapon like that than one that is strong but doesnt feel fun to use

[mortal aspen]

I feel that way about the relic blade

I don't care how strong it is, it feels terrible and i'm not going to use it

[steep flower]

At the very best you say ‚you can use it’; usually you speak only in negatives unless its a meta weapon - seeing lows on weapons/builds is good, downvoting them without any credit for what they can do ain’t good and for a guide maker like ya thats just oof

[mortal aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-smoking-blunt-blehskibidi-gif-4336732105413285679

[tame lodge]

[turbid ibex]

Wdym by stat stick?

[steep flower]

Weapon itself yes it can be (especially such an outdated one) but build matters too - paul is a great example and so is the thunder hammer even with such an outdated talent tree that is zealot

[tall torrent]

base stats are so overtuned that u use them exclusively for how strong its stats are, not because u necessarily like it

[orchid hemlock]

Sticks with stats

[hybrid plover]

Even on the builds it's meant for, i still just don't see it being a great option for anything else but monstrosities.

[turbid ibex]

Im pretty sure stat stick refers more so to weapons that give stats passively even when not used

[hybrid plover]

A weapon that's overly specialized for one specific kind of enemy on a class where meleeing in general is their lifeline just isn't it.

[turbid ibex]

If you have to actively use the weapon to get its benefits its not a stat stick

A better example would prob be the bistol with the explosion radius blessing

[tall torrent]

there are a few weapons in the middle that I consider good but not overtuned (can be super strong given enough investment, but is good enough at a baseline for what it's made for)
but it's also not my fault that fatshark made the vast majority of weapons not even close to that level

as someone who has dug the code and tested things it'd be more inappropriate for me to make things up and say XYZ is good when they're not compared to what actually reign at the top

[mortal aspen]

thunder hammer doesn't even feel good vs poxwalkers

[steep flower]

I mean understanding how to use the weapon effectively is half the battle; moveset, combos, what to use & when, blessing & perk combos ect ect
I would not say its just specialized for bosses; badically for bigger targets in general in opposition to chaf

[spice shard]

That's cus it ain't
Thunder hammer only doesnt suck if youre using it against crushers or bosses

[steep flower]

So does chainaxe; its its natural weakness just like PS is the whole powerup gimmick and thats ok
If weapons would not have any weaknesses they would be labeled op most likely

[hollow ibex]

Waaaat. I love it

[mortal aspen]

it's slow and laggy(?)

the attacks don't register very well for me

same as shield maul mk 11

[hollow ibex]

Oh maybe it’s only because I use it on Marty zealot

[mortal aspen]

you need to hold a heavy for a long ass time for it to register as a heavy

psyker greatsword doesn't have this

[hollow ibex]

I’m mostly just light spamming anyway lmao

[mortal aspen]

branx pickaxe is similar

I have to mash buttons for the attacks to register on that thing or else it literally eats the input and does nothing

[hybrid plover]

You can understand how to use a weapon effectively and also acknowledge it can be much, much better than it actually is.

That's where the hammer is for me.

Like, why would I use the thunderhammer for anything that isn't a boss.

[narrow widget]

that's a lot of words anyway nerf paul

[hybrid plover]

When the crusher exists, feels better, is better for a much wider variety of things other than monsters which it's still serviceable.

It's just a disappointing weapon right now.

[spice shard]

I use the autogun for bosses
Does decent damage and let's me relic blade hordes

[steep flower]

Despite numbers & all that knowledge you refuse to experiment
Thats your flaw; i wish i could know many things but then i can’t even read simple code
Yet i experiment and find enjoyment in discoveries that do work; be it me or others who tried my builds - be it more or less experienced - they work and thus i mention them cause imo they deserve recognition & fighting stigmas is fun… atleast in video games such as this one

[hollow ibex]

Relic blade also wrecks bosses. It’s beautiful

[spice shard]

Why would you even use the thunderhammer for a boss anyway unless you're specced into dealing a ton of damage in a single swing

[spice shard]

True
Am not a fan of getting close to slug without bubble psyker tho

[steep flower]

Its a preference

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-choke-star-wars-i-find-your-lack-of-faith-disturbing-gif-16636956

[spice shard]

Im not into being eaten sorry

[hollow ibex]

Different universe, but completely applicable statement

[steep flower]

Cause when it can chunk bosses; so it will elites - i was sceptical myself but with a build everything makes it work

[mortal aspen]

no, it's a weird weapon quirk

[hybrid plover]

"it works."

That's not enough for me to actually want to use it.

It doesn't feel good. And it could be better.

[steep flower]

Would not defend it if i did not experience it myself for the past week playing it in h40

[mortal aspen]

almost every other weapon, no matter how slow, starts a heavy animation if you hold even for a little bit

relic blade doesn't

[tall torrent]

I'd prefer if more weapons were in that intermediate good tier instead of wildly overtuned stat stick or wildly below where they should be

[turbid ibex]

"It works" is the bare minimum

[steep flower]

Welp; thats fatfish not updating everything but in… pieces

While moving forward

[turbid ibex]

True

Also again im pretty sure thats not what stat stick means

[tall torrent]

there're only 3 weapons imo that are good enough to be where they should be
everything else is off, some by a little bit, some by a lot

[spice shard]

"Stat sticks are weapons carried or equipped by a character primarily or solely for the statistics they give. This happens when possessing a weapon gives bonuses to a character even if it is not used. In extreme cases, the weapon will provide these bonuses even when held by a character who cannot legally use it. If that sword gives additional MP to anyone who has it in their inventory, then why not give it to your mage? Your mage can't use the sword as a weapon, but he can certainly use the MP!"

That's what stat stick means

[steep flower]

Everything can be; never denied it
Just atleast in its current state it can still deliver
Same situation could be said about ogryn shield and ogryn as a whole before talent tree rework; i still remember how many hits i had to sank into elites to make a dent
Now? It… crushes… and the weapon did not change

[turbid ibex]

Yeah weapons you dont actually need to use in order to get the benefits

[steep flower]

Same can be for zealot & thunderhammer

[mortal aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-nerd-emoji-gif-1712163874519931175

you're right tho

[spice shard]

Fall

[turbid ibex]

Bistol is a better example of an actual stat stick with the explosion radius blessing

[steep flower]

Puncture

[tall torrent]

boltpistol's stats are not remotely good enough to be called a stat stick

[spice shard]

"With the explosion radius blessing"

[tall torrent]

stat stick is power sword, duelling sword, bully club, pickaxe, arb maul, etc

[turbid ibex]

The explosion radius blessing is active even when not using it

[spice shard]

@tall torrent

[turbid ibex]

Which is what a stat stick actually is

[tall torrent]

ik

but it's not so strong that it's worth always taking just for that

[turbid ibex]

If you have to actively use the weapon to get the benefits then its not a stat stick

[tall torrent]

cuz the weapon itself is not good enough

[hybrid plover]

Bistol is more like a blessing stick imho

[spice shard]

Its a stat stick definition wise

[hybrid plover]

Only because of lethal prox and how entire builds can revolve around it.

[spice shard]

None of these are stat sticks due to the definition of stat stick not applying to them

[hollow ibex]

Arbi: I can fix this

[tall torrent]

"Stat sticks are weapons carried or equipped by a character primarily or solely for the statistics they give." is how I'm interpreting it for the most part

[turbid ibex]

"Stat stick" just refers to any weapon that gives passive bonuses even when not using them

[tall torrent]

u can invent a better term for me to use if u want

[mortal aspen]

you do use the weapon itself a lot tho

[tall torrent]

idm

[turbid ibex]

The distinction is that you dont actually need to use the weapon to get those benefits

[spice shard]

Yeah
It is the only weapon i know of that gives passive buffs even when not active though

[turbid ibex]

Just having it equipped is enough

[tall torrent]

I don't mind if u created a new term for me to refer to these things

I wouldn't call them "op" tho

[spice shard]

Why would we create a new term for you when you could just not use the term incorrectly

[tall torrent]

ok wat should I call these then

[mortal aspen]

destroyed by facts and logic

[spice shard]

Not stat sticks for one

[tall torrent]

ok then wat

[turbid ibex]

Overtuned/overstatted ig?

[spice shard]

Strong as fuck works

Least for the duelling sword

[tall torrent]

ok overstatted

[turbid ibex]

Overstatted works yeah

Hold on

[tall torrent]

anyways it's not my fault FS made some weapons overtuned that they have significantly higher baseline and invested performance than the rest (higher than they prob should)

[turbid ibex]

Would brain burst count as a stat stick cause of kinectic flayer?

[tall torrent]

and as someone who digs code and test stuff on how they perform, I cannot just make shit up and say XYZ is actually good in an area where it's not

[hollow ibex]

Overtuned?

[tall torrent]

and saying XYZ is good is imo a relative thing

relative to how good the top performers are and how good the avg performers are

[hollow ibex]

That’s the more common term used in gaming

[turbid ibex]

I think in this context overstatted might be a bit more accurate

[mortal aspen]

that's called a passive

💀

[turbid ibex]

Yes

[mortal aspen]

brain burst is used

it's a very neat ability, could be a little faster

[spice shard]

Yeah brain burst is used for like snipers n shit

[mortal aspen]

lock on and the thing is dead

[turbid ibex]

Its a "weapon" (technically) that you equip but you dont have to actively use in order to get the benefits

[mortal aspen]

listen, a stat stick to me is a melee on a hunter in wow

or melee weapons on a monk in d3

[tall torrent]

someone can say "mk3 sapper shovel has good horde clear" but it's actually below avg

[spice shard]

I think theres a node for it that makes it charge faster when ability is used

[tall torrent]

so that statement is just straight up false

[spice shard]

They removed that unfortunately last I checked

[turbid ibex]

I think the charge should work by having the damage scale over its duration

[mortal aspen]

yes, I know that modern wow is lame as fuck

[narrow frost]

At the end of the day baseline weapon stats are too varied in both directions that it over shines the one that are good

[mortal aspen]

cutting out the rpg from mmorpg with every update

[turbid ibex]

And when the damage is enough to kill the target it just activates without needing the full charge everytime

[steep flower]

Dogs & trappers that run away

[spice shard]

I just stab em ngl

Or use flame staff on the trapper before stabbing em

[stoic thorn]

Should I dump stability or mobility on shotgun

[polar topaz]

mobility

[junior grail]

Is it weird that I think Veteran should be able to use a Flamer as well?

[tall torrent]

Not “weird” since imperial guard does use flamers but it does conflict with veteran’s existing identity (having better range) and is not supported well by veteran’s existing talents

[junior grail]

Imagine if Onslaught affects Flamer haha

[tall torrent]

It would yea

[junior grail]

My hopium hurts awaiting news of Darktide

[tall torrent]

Flamer’s direct hit is ranged atk

Which can apply onslaught

[junior grail]

Helldivers 2 is fun and all but Darktide scratches that itch I have really well

[tall torrent]

The remaining 2 content drops this year are prob new veteran weapons

[junior grail]

Hopefully the new weapons aren't like a new Revolver or Powersword mark

Tho tbh I wouldn't mind a 3rd Powersword variant

[junior grail]

Theres no road map right?

[tall torrent]

It’s fatsgark

[tall torrent]

No it might be a second power sword family

Power falchion?

2 variants

Uses heat meter

[junior grail]

Well that'd be interesting

A fast version of Relic Sword

Another mark for Bolter and Plasma would be great too

A lighter 3 shot Bolter
Plasma with faster charge but lower damage output

[low oar]

Keep?

Or do I really need that one extra ammo

[tall torrent]

[hollow ibex]

literally unusable

spend 10m more dockets getting that perfect roll (which isn't perfect because you didn't get the exact right decimal place)

[junior grail]

What is a good melee to pair with Helbore?

[grand perch]

Me like tac axe

At worst, it's your mobility stick. With skill it can handle just about anything. And the relative weakness to armor is compensated by the helbore (mk IV)

[junior grail]

Ooo may I know your build? Is trench fighter needed?

[grand perch]

Tac axe doesn't really need a specific build, but it will profit from it if course

https://youtu.be/S3X1pSGYA9Q?si=xoskDfT_l6cS8szy

Would be one example

[latent thistle]

Does anyone have any build link recommendations for havoc 30 and beyond. I currently have had the most success (and enjoyment) following Mr Es grenade vet build with bolt pistol.

I'll humor anything non-plasma gun as it just bores me to tears.

[junior grail]

Thoughts on other Helbore marks?

[faint beacon]

V is meh IIIa is the jack of all trades variant

[hybrid plover]

IIIa is a lot more generalist but won't do as much to carapace.

[faint beacon]

IV is the cannon

[hybrid plover]

V is honestly just, kinda pointless.

In theory, V has the highest DPS.

But because of the charge timing and it falling flat on a lot of breakpoints, it just feels really awkward to use.

I usually don't care that much about minmaxing on breakpoints but Helbore's one of the guns you really want to maximize your efficiency on with them.

[tall torrent]

V is nice if u play exe + MMF at the same time on a damage juice build

U essentially have IV’s damage but much more responsive and don’t rely on WoF for the charge speed

[grand perch]

I shall have to try that.

I've been disregarding V for ages

[hard oracle]

I have spent so much money easily in the ball park of 10m rolling plasmas lololololol

[steep flower]

Next one in line is godroll ripper gun

66 ammo; good luck

[marsh condor]

Inquisitor's Inferno Pistol. Looks like a flintlock pistol.

[smoky sapphire]

he had no money left for a gangster gun spent it all on his coolass sword

[plain osprey]

Looks cool though

[marsh condor]

Who says I'm deriding the flintlock design? I love it.

[smoky sapphire]

im deriding the flintlock design

[marsh condor]

HERETIC.

https://tenor.com/view/saltzpyre-eyebrow-raise-vermintide-gif-24052002

[smoky sapphire]

wait its age of sugma

move along a misrake has been made

[marsh condor]

What.

What?

[smoky sapphire]

its not a 40k model

its both?

[smoky sapphire]

replace the veteran with saltzpyre

game will go from a 1 out of 10 to a 1.1 out of 10

[junior grail]

Saltzpyre Bounty Hunter a better Vet than Vet

Makes me wonder why there is no offensive ability in Darktide that can do direct damage by default like Kerillian Waystalker, Sienna Pyromancer, Saltzpyre Bounty Hunter, etc

[grand perch]

i cast grenade

[crimson wyvern]

[sudden cedar]

[crimson wyvern]

oh

they were just loading in nevermind

were so back

[sudden cedar]

Respectable.

[steep flower]

I thought mah man got robbed

[sudden cedar]

Highway robbery of plasteel

[turbid ibex]

More like

High robbery

https://tenor.com/view/i'll-be-blunt-with-you-blunt-gif-17728238619641319735

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/eDL5YbcApSR.gif

[turbid ibex]

:(

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/war-make-boof-gif-26213687

[covert fable]

https://tenor.com/view/shocking-shocked-sarcasm-emoji-reaction-gif-14712663263517681978

[marsh condor]

The Psyker technically does with the Warp Shriek's extra talents.

[turbid ibex]

The majority of abilities also already boost your damage in some way

[marsh condor]

The main reason why there's no dedicated offensive abilities here is because most of the ones in Vermintide are ranged (excluding Grail Knight) and what ^ said.

[turbid ibex]

Ye ranged weapons are a lot more important in darktide overall compared to vermintide

Melee is still the core but the guns get a bit more of the spotlight

[marsh condor]

Unrelated, but I'm still hoping that the next pattern for the DB Shotgun would be a slug-throwing one.

[turbid ibex]

Yes

Make it a over/under and its peak

[hidden herald]

hi lovely’s

[smoky sapphire]

thats not a blunt thats a big ass cigar

[meager echo]

the arbites syndrome is real, no bubble no smoke drop down immediately, we lose the psyker instantly, then arbites run straight in to trigger twins. How is this guy 40 wtf.

[atomic void]

he's him

[tropic notch]

Sorry was me

[meager echo]

i'm pretty sure that heresy behavior

repent sinner

[fleet thicket]

How to know if a vet is good? He can use a helbore effectively

Helbore is the ultimate skill check weapon in the game

[turbid ibex]

The only situation i might leave is cause of irl stuff or if literally everyone is down or dead

[crimson wyvern]

just please stay, it makes everyones games LONGER cause they not have teo wait for the bot to die, for a little bit before the cutscene plays

[turbid ibex]

Its not always

[crimson wyvern]

or god forbid the bot saves someone in fire

[turbid ibex]

Im just saying that its the only situation i might even consider doing that

[tropic halo]

I only leave the game when the end game screen appears

[crimson wyvern]

I never disconnect cause ive been the guy that has to sit and wait an extra 30seconds to a minute for whoever the bot saves to die, or some poor fucker joins in on the DC and now has to deal with it

its just not fair to anyones time

[crimson wyvern]

based

[crimson wyvern]

lord save me from this reddit

I dunno why I post sometimes

[narrow frost]

rule #1

reddit.

[narrow widget]

average reddit moment

[faint beacon]

I think I’ve truly experienced peak pubs when everyone minus 1 clueless relic zealot ragequit and obviously with the new QP system no one rejoined, naturally hit 1.25M Damage

Auric becoming the H40 but easier chat

Hell has frozen over

[crimson wyvern]

The game could only CHEESE me for it do kill us therefore > Bots justified

Child brain

[faint beacon]

Truth nuke

[final night]

hello

question

i have seen a veteran playing and having really fast attack speed

how is that possible

[narrow frost]

2 talents increase it

bottom right purple keystone

and trench fighter is base +10% attack speed

bottom right as well

[final night]

i see

thank you a lot @narrow frost

[narrow frost]

and some weapons are base faster attack speed

like tactical axe

[worn sapphire]

And sabre

[hybrid plover]

Weapon specialist my beloved.

[void dragon]

The one keystone I believe (because the others are questionable at best and awful useless at worse)

[serene bough]

Sometimes I leave because I'm bored or hungry and want a snack

I am a problem

[void dragon]

I have only leave some games when I have to address something irl, and most of the time when the current wave/boss/event is already controlled

Many people rage quit asap as they go down stupidly

[serene bough]

Unless its havoc I dont feel inclined to stay and finish after so many hours of play

Im guilty of sometimes dying too early from my own mistake and then leaving bc I spawned far away, but I try not to make that a habit

[crimson wyvern]

Part of the game, is death, you cant be the hero and john darktide every game, and you'll build stories, friendships around the falls and successes of your game imo

you may, even get something out of the game thats fun and feels nice that you didnt expect from if you were to just ace every game with no mistakes

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/your-opinion-gif-24573780

leaving is an epidemic right now

but its not that serious imo

[crimson wyvern]

No but its really annoying. Like valve removing votescramble from TF2

its not the most important thing right now, but its something that rubs you the wrong way each time

[tame lodge]

I can be the hero

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[crimson wyvern]

The way you'd get around it is a mark on a portrait/next to player username that stays on for a week/2 weeks and puts you in a different queue

i'd be happy with this

[serene bough]

Sometimes im just sleepy and stop playing to take a nap 🙂

[crimson wyvern]

i still need some solid confirmation btw about this thing

i might have to do some testing with a squad

but Im still not sure if that 5s is the same 5s clock I'm on, or if they will only ever attain my highlights for that 5 second period, or, like what happens with me, taht 5 second is reset for every highlighted enemy kill

[narrow frost]

one sec

from path

checking with kuli now

Enables Executioner's Stance's outlines on all specials and human-sized elites to be visible to allies who are in coherency with Veteran. Outlines visible to allies always last 5s.

if I am reading this correctly they go off the same 5seconds but only if you get the kill and if they are in coherency

[crimson wyvern]

so they are on my same clock as me

good, because if that was locked at only 5s that truely would be a horrid node

[muted peak]

Why does playing zealot feels more harder than vet

I think something is wrong here

[hollow ibex]

Use chastise. Press F more often

[muted peak]

Yeah maybe thats why

Gotta revise

[mortal aspen]

zealot has like no passive TDR or replenishment

vet is more consistent imo

[muted peak]

Yeah

Zealot needs real agressive gameplay

I just cant seem to pull it off

[hollow ibex]

it gets one of the best toughness regen talents (second wind)

[tame lodge]

Yeah everything about zealot is being aggressive

[hollow ibex]

press F aggressively

[tame lodge]

Change your mindset to "I can kill everything" and just W + m1

In no time, you'll have a maniacal grin

[faint beacon]

Its horrid mainly cause of, If you have good teammates who beam the enemies you also need to kill to upkeep it it drops incredibly quickly

its why im surprised their isn't something additional for you having your Squad land kills and reward you for it

[hybrid plover]

never take Enhanced Target Priority.

It's at the level of the shout revive node for me.

A trap.

It will actively make things worse for you.

[hollow ibex]

prob because fatshart didn't think it through

[hybrid plover]

Funny. Zealot does actually.

Its just not on the right side of the tree.

[toxic reef]

a passive zealot is a dead zealot

[mystic glade]

second wind mogs passive regen

[unreal forge]

vet has golden toughness about every 20-15 seconds
a few sources of passive toughness regeneration
safety vs. crushers, mutants and berserkers with the dueling sword
ways to regenerate plenty of toughness by shooting enemies
frags for crowd control and stagger

Vet is much safer than Zealot

[tropic notch]

I think it’s the other way around

[midnight wyvern]

yea wot

[unreal forge]

when Zealot gets passive 5% toughness regen a second and infinitely stacking toughness regen from ranged kills I'll believe it

but Zealot pretty much only regains toughness from melee KILLS and abilities and then a pretty unreliable set of gimmicks

[narrow frost]

uh

no?

[unreal forge]

Yes

[unreal forge]

I literally did mention abilities

[narrow frost]

dodging is not a gimmick

mb

[unreal forge]

and unreliable set of gimmicks i.e. successful dodges

zealot just don't got stuff that'll bail them out of a rock and a hard place like the other classes have tools for, not without some lengthy cooldown like chorus anyway

[hollow ibex]

dodging is a gimmick? 🤔

[unreal forge]

like if it's just a bunch of shooters and zealot is low HP and there's no melee units to help him sustain it's pretty bad

[narrow frost]

sliding?

dodging is an option

[unreal forge]

to have a dodge count as successful is unreliable

[hollow ibex]

it happens consistently in combat

[unreal forge]

I dodged those 3 attacks enough that the game knew I had the iframes to not take damage and yet none of them registered as a "successful dodge" for talent purposes

[narrow frost]

this doesnt fit the context of a zealot fighting ranged enemies with no melee enemies

yes buggy stuff does happen

[unreal forge]

my point is the game is finicky with what counts as a successful dodge

[narrow frost]

fair it is fatshark

doesnt mean dodge talents lose most value

[unreal forge]

naw it just means it's not on the level of near permanent 5% toughness regen like Vet has

[narrow frost]

especially in the context of ranged enmies, sliding even would get them toughness

vet gets that from killing though

all of vet toughness outside abilities is killing

[unreal forge]

no he gets it from not being hit by a melee attack for 5s

[narrow frost]

unlike zealot

oh....

my bad

sorry

I was thinking out for blood

[unreal forge]

that the one that's 20% toughness over 10s on specialist/elite kill?

[narrow frost]

5% toughness from kills

[unreal forge]

so that's 2% toughness a second for 10 seconds that infinitely stacks with no cap

whichever the 2nd talent from the top middle is

[narrow frost]

confirmed kill

[unreal forge]

below TDR in coherency

the toughness regen safety on Vet is just nuts

[narrow frost]

And I think its the worst out of all classes with all variables considered

[midnight wyvern]

if you could get exhilerating takedown without having to get longshot I'd take like to take it more often lol

[unreal forge]

I think it's the 3rd best below Arby and Ogryn personally

[narrow frost]

variables being difficulty/skill/mission type/and build

[unreal forge]

and then not only is there all that queued up toughness, there's also VoC

and iron will, and all that stuff even lets you facetank h40 gunners while you kill them

as long as you also have gunner DR in curios, it's quite safe

and just for that ability to facetank gunners, that I don't believe Zealot nor Psyker can do, I think Vet has safer/better toughness

his class specialty of also being better from afar considered

[mystic glade]

i fear you are just bad at the game if you think this

[tame lodge]

Y'all discussing with Raiva

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-dog-sleeping-sleeping-dog-dog-sleeping-tiny-eepy-dog-gif-2292331323183720739

[junior grail]

Does the talent Covering Fire benefit the player or just allies?

[hollow ibex]

think about it dumbdumb

you're covering your allies

why would you get the benefit

vet isn't allowed to have support talents that benefit themselves

[junior grail]

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/sleeping-sleep-dog-dawg-eeper-gif-5083970977419902566

[midnight wyvern]

their ability red node thing in the middle buffs themselves too

checkmate

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

For The Emperor!

Implies that the emperor is protecting vet

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-yo-gif-26891796

Therefore not vet supporting himself

[midnight wyvern]

run that back

one more time

[tropic notch]

Dawg you’re silly

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-dog-sleeping-sleeping-dog-dog-sleeping-tiny-eepy-dog-gif-2292331323183720739

https://tenor.com/view/the-kill-cod-montage-sniping-montage-sniper-gif-7453980808548041523

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

[meager echo]

I'm finally free from havoc haha

[hybrid plover]

...Until Death?

I mean it's a lengthy cooldown but it's also immensely powerful for what it does.

and chorus can easily have a short cooldown actually

[distant mural]

Yeah zealot is THE class to bail out of such situations in my opinion

Very fast and nimble massive golden toughness and untild death idk why you would say zealot out of all classes

[sharp epoch]

true survivor

[spark helm]

Anyone got some fun marksman's focus builds just because?

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/residentevil-merchant-gif-6214633

https://youtu.be/Hof73e-1EPQ

[meager echo]

Ive got everything, except for the weekly chest penance

I'm at 6 so it's gonna take a while

[grand perch]

Or this

https://youtu.be/s1T4mlvlC0k

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/looking-binoculars-staring-look-with-interest-oooh-gif-26743333

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-gif-10634010482872098537

[midnight wyvern]

holy fuckng loadout tabs batman

[grand perch]

Barely enough

[crimson wyvern]

Woke up this morning to my post on reddit having 435 likes 118 comments, and almost everyone hating that I call disconnecting from the match to get a potential bot save a "cheese" strat

It literally just is cheesing the game idk what the fuck people are smoking

[normal bay]

You must use everything at your disposal to deliver the emperors justice

[grand perch]

I told you you're taking it a bit too serious

[crimson wyvern]

Im not taking it seriously but it IS cheesing the game

I can care about something, it is allowed

[grand perch]

You were getting upset at people leaving and others having to wait for the bot to die. That is...a little petty.

[crimson wyvern]

Its just as petty not waiting for the game to be over, if its only so little time why leave? It works both ways

[normal bay]

You're also probably stuck with a near useless bot for the rest of the mission, due to the board changes

[crimson wyvern]

True

They should honestly just remove the whole rez mechanic and picking up teammates at this stage if everyones so on board with leaving for a bot

why even have that in the game if you can just dip for a bot

everyone seems fine with cheesing so just make it the done thing

[normal bay]

Bit much for a rare occurence

Chances are someone has to clutch unless everyone went down to s silent burster or something

[crimson wyvern]

Whats rare? That people leave for a bot?

[normal bay]

In a desperate situation like that? Yes

[red portal]

It really hasn't happened that often in my experience

I mostly play havocs nowadays though so I can't say anything for non havocs.

[crimson wyvern]

Oh well havocs no one will disconnect cause theres actually a desrved penalty

like there should be in regular gameplay

[mortal aspen]

they should just let people join ongoing games like before

or you know

have a fucking lobby selector

like in the better tide game

[normal bay]

The mission board changes are quite possibly the worst change they've made to the game since I started playing

[red portal]

There's a penalty besides not being able to queue before it ends?

[turbid ibex]

Ye

It sends all your credit card info directly to fatshark

[crimson wyvern]

Seen this take lots.

This is going to sound cold and harsh, but tiktok has rotted peoples brains or something else.

Your life is not so needing of constant entertainment, you're able to wait 1-2 minutes of downtime before your next game

I've seen how long people wait on Overwatch queues and DbD lobbies, it is possible

[red portal]

What take exactly? That there's no "real" penalty for leaving havocs in progress cause that is my opinion. I also don't believe people leaving for the bot clutch happens often enough to be a real problem though rage quitters are losers, won't argue with that one.

[mortal aspen]

giving penalty for leaving has a few issues

fatshark's shitty servers

[red portal]

Like the fact the game is really unstable

[mortal aspen]

yeah

[red portal]

Give me leaver penalties for out of memory error FS please.

[mortal aspen]

and if you make disconnects exempt from the penalty - people are just going to "disconnect"

[red portal]

Just disable your network to DC instead...

[mortal aspen]

if people could just join ongoing games easily, this wouldn't be such an issue

or, you know, if we had actual bots

[red portal]

People are making bigger issues out of leavers then it should be. If someone leaves after going down once they weren't going to be good teammates anyways.

If you had VT2 bots replace them instead of a lvl 1 vet people would probably not mind

[crimson wyvern]

I've not really had server issues. In my 900 hours I've been server dced twice. Eu servers. Wired internet not wifi

[red portal]

I have 300 something hours and I've been dced and crashed countless times.

I've had the entire lobby crash at the same time numerous times.

Havocs especially turn the servers so unstable you are at least guaranteed 1 crash during a game.

Anything else is the exception

It wasn't that bad on the arbites release but every patch since has made the game progressively more unstable

[crimson wyvern]

Are you on WiFi or wired?

[steep flower]

Primarily its an issue for havoc but then again if someone leaves your havoc mission you should just report & block the bozo

[steep flower]

It depends on who you connect with

And where main server and where you play from

[junior grail]

Why is FatShark so afraid of giving us better bots?

They should be able to use lesser abilities at least

[turbid ibex]

Or blitzes

[junior grail]

Or bots be able to pick up items for us like back in VT2

[turbid ibex]

Ye

[junior grail]

Half the fun I had in VT2 is making my bot dream team for solo games

[mortal aspen]

it's a shame, really

cata botsolos were fun in vt2

until fatshark broke bots a bit too much

[turbid ibex]

I think it could be due to darktide not really having a "host" from what i can tell?

I have no idea how vt2 multiplayer works though

[junior grail]

Yea right now Darktide is server based

VT2 is player to player

[turbid ibex]

Darktide is based
More news at 11

[junior grail]

Based on what?

[sudden cedar]

On real events

or something

[turbid ibex]

But yeah there isnt really a host player to setup the bots themselves

[mortal aspen]

why would that matter?

[turbid ibex]

But even without bot customization theres still plenty of room for improvement to their ai

[turbid ibex]

Picking and choosing specific builds for the bots mostly

[mortal aspen]

ok that is a good point,

whose bots are chosen, right?

but I feel like the game could just asign a leader at random or whatever and use their bots

anything's better than lvl 1 veterans

[turbid ibex]

Maybe

But i think customization is prob secondary to other improvements

If fatshark gets it working, cool, but i think theres other improvements to bots that would be better first

[steep flower]

The one who choose/started the mission

[midnight wyvern]

it sort of already does, person who picked the mission/started the queue is the 'host"

uses their settings and server preference

[turbid ibex]

And tbh i feel like if you could choose specific bots everyone would just stack 3 botgryns and done

[midnight wyvern]

with rocks

[steep flower]

When there is a vote you can see who started it; thats the guy who would have their bots used

[turbid ibex]

Ngl that would prob be the case since it leaves grenades pickups to the actual players

Unless the bots get infinite grenades

In that case it'd be frag bomb

[steep flower]

It would fit their intelect

[turbid ibex]

Im not sure if i want bots being able to use blitzes anymore

[steep flower]

I mean in v2 bots could not use bombs

[turbid ibex]

Them getting infinite ammo already opens enough of a can of worms

[steep flower]

And it was fine

[turbid ibex]

Yeah but bombs were their own pickup separate from the class

And the bots could still pick up the bombs

They'd just give it to the player as soon as their bomb slot was free

[steep flower]

They technically do; they regen it after some time but still can pick up ammo if you mark

[turbid ibex]

Which isnt really a possibility in darktide

[turbid ibex]

The bots?

[steep flower]

I think so; unless i mix v2 where they could actualy steal your ammo

[turbid ibex]

Im pretty sure ive never seen a bot's ammo indicator as any color other than white

So i think they have infinite ammo

[steep flower]

I saw some seperate instances where bot in dt took ammo when marked after they shot & before they regenerated

[turbid ibex]

Cant remember that happening

Bots pretty much just never have their ammo indicator even reach yellow

[red portal]

With numeric UI you can see the bot ammo go down

[turbid ibex]

Tbh its prob some spaghetti code leftovers from some point in development where bots actually had limited ammo

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-dog-sleeping-sleeping-dog-dog-sleeping-tiny-eepy-dog-gif-2292331323183720739

[turbid ibex]

I mostly just want bots being able to pickup stims and crates and giving them to players with available slots for them

Like they did in vt2

[mortal aspen]

cope and seethe, darktider

https://tenor.com/view/vampire-the-masquerade-miss-velour-wife-staring-bloodlines-gif-17439473225677890316

[red portal]

Is that gif from vampire the masquerade: bloodlines?

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-dog-sleeping-sleeping-dog-dog-sleeping-tiny-eepy-dog-gif-2292331323183720739

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dog-with-butterfly-on-nose-dog-with-butterfly-butterfly-gif-13282441872748349107

Hold on lemme see if there's a small version

[turbid ibex]

It appears there was not, in fact, a small version

[crimson wyvern]

Bots hoggin the medikay and using up all the charges will never not be funny and frustrating

it would have been so easy for them NOT to do that

[normal bay]

Safer letting them die tbh

At those static parts next to medbays

As soon as they take a wound, they head straight for the medicae

[grand perch]

I saw a bot draining 3 charges in seconds because he kept getting hit while healing

[tame lodge]

Green Juice tastes better than key

[sly orchid]

it ruins mortis duos

[crimson wyvern]

Mortis Duos are a thing? Surprising

Do you just reset if you dont get the class you want?

[tame lodge]

I do

[sly orchid]

we ball

[tame lodge]

The amount of times I quit because I didn't get Death Dealer Twin linked

Or fulminator Smite

[crimson wyvern]

I didnt know 5% to insta kill electrocuted enemies exsisted till the other day

goes very hard on shock maul

[naive needle]

Hit 5 enemies with a frag grenade without it bouncing.. how do you make sure it doesn't bounce, is that just have it land on the ground rather than a wall?

[tame lodge]

Airburst

[tall torrent]

Throw grenade at enemies ~42m away and have the grenade airburst

[naive needle]

So wide open spaces

[tall torrent]

Magistrati oubliette starting section’s long catwalk

Could do

[plain osprey]

Anywhere on the torrent maps

Soo many open spaces

Play high intensity or high intensity shock troop gauntlet on auric. That way youll have a high enemy density

[unreal nova]

Solos are already a thing. Duos are just easier. Bots make it both easier and harder depending on situation and wave.

[muted peak]

[midnight wyvern]

15-20s is probably a stretch there too lol

6s off for every special/elite

[unreal forge]

12% CDR from curios puts VOC at 26 seconds innately

and remember the golden toughness from VOC lasts 15 seconds

[midnight wyvern]

but even then, zealot is definitely not weaker in sustain than a vet

[unreal forge]

20s is in fact generous

Nah he definitely is

[midnight wyvern]

[unreal forge]

Yeah man Zealot may not have VOC every 15 seconds or 5% toughness a second and a infinitely stacking 2% toughness a second

but don't you know he gets 15% toughness from a successful dodge????

how is this even an argument

let me guess, you skip Confirmed Kill?

because Tanner or some other bad player told you Out for Blood is better

expecting Veteran to play as a frontliner or brawler is why people think he's weaker than others

[midnight wyvern]

uh huh

[tame lodge]

Why wouldn't you play vet as a Frontliner/Brawler

You have the best melee generalist in the game

[muted peak]

He is not, only that his way of fighting is much more agressive and I cant seem to pull it off

[tame lodge]

Gold toughness spam

[muted peak]

I already do

Best class ever

(İmo)

Dont lynch me with the numbers

[tame lodge]

A literal melee keystone

Which is also the best keystone

[spark helm]

Did weapon specialist get directly buffed or did more people just realize that it was always solid in the first place?

[tame lodge]

Don't remember any buffs

So I'm going with the second option

[steep flower]

Both; using both is best

[mortal aspen]

Yeah, idk, maybe it's better if you're some gigasweat, but the way I play, Confirmed kill is like a constant ~10%\s toughness regen

that's arby level of toughness regen

that's on top of shout ofc

[unreal forge]

truth

is what I do

[steep flower]

Congoline of weaker elites (shotgunners, gunners & ragers)? You won’t die

[steep flower]

Mah man

[steep flower]

Not to mention 33% tdr cause you stay with your team

That works with iron will

[unreal forge]

yeah people ignore that Vet can facetank Havoc gunners which is crazy

Psyker and Zealot can never do that

[hollow ibex]

psyker def can

[steep flower]

I observe my toughness alot and i never had a problem exept for multiple reapers/shooters but then one does insane dmg and the other does not have a dedicated perk that resists them

[hollow ibex]

@tall torrent is there any reason to ever use mk2 taxe or 7, moveset aside

[steep flower]

Every class can to a degree when you use 2 gunner resists

[tall torrent]

7, yea

[steep flower]

Rare tac axe 2 mention

[tame lodge]

Bro says that as Zealot can literally ignore ranged damage

Crazy work

Crazy work

[junior grail]

I heard there was upcoming announcement of update announcement?

[tame lodge]

Nah you're hearing voices

[junior grail]

Ah not again

[unreal forge]

no it was the announcement for the announcement of a possible announcement

[tall torrent]

Best keystone is arb’s EO

[native ocean]

your beloved is lying to you again bro

[tame lodge]

It's Arby's
Insta mid

[tall torrent]

Yea they can

[hollow ibex]

porque? just curious

[steep flower]

Majority of zel builds sustain is… second wind & enduring faith and thats it
Both carry him hard especially considered zel has lowest toughness of all classes and other talent tree paths that gice options gor sustain are not picked

[hollow ibex]

got bored of 7, wanted to try something different lol

and 4 is fun, but i wouldn't use it outside of zealot really

[steep flower]

I mean use them & see if they stick

[unreal forge]

I genuinely can't tell much of a difference from taxe to taxe

[steep flower]

Arby 2

[unreal forge]

I use whichever one has the stupidly fast special attacks

[steep flower]

Moveset, att spd, looks i dunno

[hollow ibex]

i mean yeah ig arbi can use whatever tf it wants lol

[tall torrent]

Cuz u have better horde clear breakpoints on attacks that IV doesn’t have as frequent access to

[faint beacon]

It’s got value in Havoc on vet

[hollow ibex]

we're comparing II to VII?

[steep flower]

Not even push att into heavy like 7? They are nearly identical

As in on 4 vs 7

[hollow ibex]

bleedaxe build?

[tall torrent]

Oh comparing II to VII

[hollow ibex]

yeh

[faint beacon]

That or just it’s pretty reliable on a chaffe killing tool

[tall torrent]

I don’t think II as good as VII overall cuz u don’t have the new buffed overhead atk profile

[hollow ibex]

is the overhead attack profile only for heavies?

[steep flower]

Good defensive melee vs chaf since release

[hollow ibex]

i tried this and the H2 is ass

it's legit faster to just light spam

like mk vii