veteran-class

[atomic void]

literally just do this

[sudden cedar]

Of course they do.

They just want to believe that.

[midnight wyvern]

I'd love it

[atomic void]

3 marines should not be able to kill a tyrant
so the solution was to literally collapse a bridge on the tyrant

[sudden cedar]

Probably the corruptors.

Because they look like death guard stuff

[midnight wyvern]

but it'd probably be needed to fight a particularly angry Daemon or a space marine

[turbid ibex]

Yeah i can see part of the mission being to find a way to weaken them

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/die-warhammer-40k-explosion-hive-tyrant-space-marine-2-gif-12492225306389465100

for those unaware of what happens

[atomic void]

KOBE

[sly orchid]

terminator squad if the recieved transmission is to be believed

the hive tyrant is also impaled by a massive steel beam

[atomic void]

no biggie just collapse a giant ass statue on the guy

[midnight wyvern]

and it just hops out and fucks off and you chase it lmao

[atomic void]

and he's still a threat

[midnight wyvern]

yeah 100%, and if we didn't manage to deal with it, it'd just be fine later on

[sly orchid]

there was no later

[atomic void]

tho hive tyrant is ez now to anyone who knows how to play the game since he's the only real end mission boss fight and people know his moveset

[sly orchid]

the hive tyrant needed to be killed otherwise titus wouldve died

[atomic void]

trygon is cool asf but too ez imo

[midnight wyvern]

thats the point bud

the titan is neat but I wish it was more involved lol

whatever they're called

[turbid ibex]

Maybe the chaos marine has some sort of super strong void shield or whatever that our normal weapons are ineffective against and one of the objectives in the mission is finding something strong enough to destroy it

Like idk

[midnight wyvern]

Hierophant

[turbid ibex]

Shoot at it with one of the tanks the moebians are supposedly famous for

[midnight wyvern]

since we fight nurgle stuff, I dont even think it would need a void shield

[mortal aspen]

they won't add marines, they said so already

lame

[midnight wyvern]

[turbid ibex]

They wont add imperial marines

[mortal aspen]

pretty sure they said no marines in general

loyalist or not

[turbid ibex]

The whole point of the war on tertium is to make sure it doesnt reach the point of needing loyalist marine deployment

Iirc

[turbid ibex]

I remember they said it in a way that left the possibility of enemy marines still in

[atomic void]

yeah this bossfight is more of a teamwork event than a real boss fight

[turbid ibex]

How so

[midnight wyvern]

they heal good

and space marine armour much gooderer than normal stuff

[turbid ibex]

Like a healing factor

[midnight wyvern]

yeah

captains in game have flak armour, they're just dudes

but kinda big

[turbid ibex]

I see then

[midnight wyvern]

lol

[turbid ibex]

Just trying to think of some way to explain how we weaken him to be a possible fight for us

[midnight wyvern]

holy pocket sand

lmao

bucket of salt, throw it in all their open wounds

[turbid ibex]

I still prefer my idea of shooting it with a tank

[midnight wyvern]

could definitely work

or just fighting it and getting it into a place where the tank is already waiting

so we arent the one that kills it, and we're just trying to live lol

I think thats probably less satisfying

and ends up in hierophant territory

[turbid ibex]

Ye thats why im not a fan of the idea

I was thinking more like he bursts through a wall and immediately gets hit

Like he has some signal that lets whoever is in mission control know where he is and he's rapidly approaching your position as you try and get the tank to work

[turbid ibex]

Then once you get the tank to work this happens

And the boss fight properly starts

[sudden cedar]

There are also Plague Toads.

[midnight wyvern]

imagine fighting a fuckin frog

every move is just the Cspawn jump

[sudden cedar]

Nurglings

[elder vessel]

Do we really need to? We got Krak and Plasma and power weapons and psykers and ogryns, all things that can kill a marine

Plague Marine would really just be a ranged plague ogryn

[turbid ibex]

Then ig we need something to explain why we cant just immediately kill him the first time he shows up

[midnight wyvern]

healthbar

the twins literally just ninja smoke bomb at their feet and teleport

[turbid ibex]

Yeah i was thinking of that

[midnight wyvern]

dont gotta get too deep into it

bro could just jump, skedaddle and go to next area

[turbid ibex]

Like what would happen so the marine can show up more than once during the mission

[turbid ibex]

Could work maybe

[midnight wyvern]

they leave when low

have scripted places they show up

[turbid ibex]

Yeah ik

[midnight wyvern]

hell, it could even be the twin they were trying to infuse

in dark communion

I know we broke the thing but like

we also killed both the twins and then one didn't die

so its not like continuity is their strongest aim

lol

[turbid ibex]

One of them barely survived iirc

And its apparently cause of chaos god blessing bs

[sudden cedar]

Rodin is dead. Rinda is alive.

[turbid ibex]

Ye

[sudden cedar]

Or as alive as anything corrupted and influenced by Nurgle can be called alive.

[turbid ibex]

Our rejects really didnt even think of double tapping to make sure💀

[midnight wyvern]

was it rinda in communion?

or rodin

[turbid ibex]

The crucified one was rodin

[sudden cedar]

Rodin is the body at the end.

[turbid ibex]

Cause hes fucking dead

[sudden cedar]

Zola also didn't make sure Makko was dead. I guess that is how she lost her eye.

[turbid ibex]

Rinda's yet to show up again outside of havoc

[sudden cedar]

It is technically not Rinda in Havoc.

It is just two Lieutenants that happen to share the models, movesets, weapons and well everything because Carcharodon Gargantua re-used the assets.

[turbid ibex]

Thats a new one

But doesnt it show their names in the healthbar?

[sudden cedar]

It does.

But their names aren't Rinda Karnak and Rodin Karnak.

[turbid ibex]

Huh

[sudden cedar]

Never noticed?

[turbid ibex]

I could swear ive seen it on some background footage

[sudden cedar]

Maybe you have. But they for sure aren't named thus.

[turbid ibex]

Weird

[midnight wyvern]

shes not the one in havoc

oh

eve said that

lol

[heavy rover]

Please tell me that's bait

[midnight wyvern]

I wish kraks would home on unyielding too

as well as them possibly doing more damage in the future

I hope thats something they add

the fucking goofy ass hexbound DH sliding into the ground when they move dodges so many kraks that would otherwise finish them off lol

[tropic notch]

Me when i spread misinformation

Recon vet I sleep

https://tenor.com/view/cat-asleep-monjjunirawr-cat-sleeping-cat-sleep-cat-eepy-gif-2038678134769585569

[heavy rover]

You play helbore because it's peak. I play helbore because recon vets and arbites keep stealing all the ammo. We are not the same

Just kidding helbore is so peak

[tropic notch]

Recon vet is the equivalent of a smite psyker

[heavy rover]

All it needs is better sights

[tropic notch]

Rumbler oggy

I watch recon vets go down to poxwalkers

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

And I don’t help them

I’m already doing everything

[heavy rover]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-13486077408184960752

Helbore vets looking at recon vets be like

Or basically anyone who shit talks the helbore

Surprisingly I've been in havoc teams that give me shit for running helbore while in the prep phase

They have yet to witness the light that is the helbore

[ocean idol]

was double shotgun nerfed?

I swera i could one-shot so many things on crits witrh it b efore

[sonic kayak]

She has, there was an event post the Orthus update that had Lights Out + Rinda (as the new HERALD OF ADMONITION) would ambush you, in a similar style to the pre-Orthus event

[ocean idol]

what

is it like a joke or what

helbore is very meh

headhunter does same job better

with higher fire rate, higher damage AND no charge delay

[sonic kayak]

She also appears in the Dark Communion trailer opposite of Wolfer where he's going "bro wtf you're supposed to be on my side"

[ocean idol]

becausae it is bad

[sonic kayak]

But Helbore can easily kill single targets almost out of the box, that the Recon needs some setup to do

It's also skill expression

[ocean idol]

who the fuck said anything about recon

[sonic kayak]

Plus, your average Recon vet doesn't know what to shoot and what not to, and probably doesn't even understand what melee is for

[ocean idol]

I did not

I was recon fun before it was cool

[ocean idol]

If you read "headhunter" as "recon" you should really go to check your reading skills

[hollow ibex]

No it was buffed slightly

[ocean idol]

Headhunter is old name for Vigilant

[ocean idol]

Feels bad now for some reason

i remember it being very fun

now it seems useless

[sonic kayak]

It's also the name of a blessing

Which in that context would make sense

[ocean idol]

i still hate that they changed names

especailly on staves

it used to be Void and Trauma

now they are both called similar name

and i still confuse the two

[sonic kayak]

Columnus being Vraks

[mint idol]

Anyone playing Havoc later tonight? In around 6ish hours? (Is this the right place for DarkTide LFG?)

[sonic kayak]

People ask everywhere but generally it'd be in #vox-lfg-lexicanum

[ocean idol]

are arbites still dummy op?

Just saw absolute potatoe doing ltos of damage and being unpunished for absolutely dumb plays

[mint idol]

That channel isn't working in my Discord phone app? Redirects me to Theory?

[ocean idol]

is there any reason to take lasgun 9 over 7?

[hollow ibex]

Yes

[sonic kayak]

Could be you need to get the Convicts role to get access idk, but if you can't, then I guess general chat is next best bet?

[minor stump]

https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1042832970211397735 NA/SA

https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1042833778931929109 eu

[ocean idol]

i am not sure, how much marksman's focus benefits recon?

[heavy rover]

Not much

[turbid ibex]

one of recon's strengths is its mobility

[analog mural]

Recon doodoo finesse, I usually only take marksmen focus on vraks5

[ocean idol]

ok wtf, why it has such huge finesse with such high firerate?!?!?

it is basically an smg ffs

[orchid hemlock]

Darktide is ded unfortunately 😞

[analog mural]

Lol yep, vraks5 has been top tier for a while because of its ridiculous stats

Just plasma gives you fun bloops so more popular

[ocean idol]

I used it al ot, but i never noticed before that it has insane finesse

Like it does not even make any sense

[turbid ibex]

How much is it?

Compared to the other mks

[hollow ibex]

You trade dps for way worse ammo economy

[orchid hemlock]

Yooo is that an Agender gator???? 👏

[turbid ibex]

Yes

[ocean idol]

and ammo economy basically least important stat of a gun

Ammo is too abundant

[half glade]

Just curios: why on some weapon when you are hit you exit braced/down the sights mode? Is it a weird balancing thing FS come up with, or just their weird stab at usability?

[hollow ibex]

Absolutely not lol

[ocean idol]

https://tenor.com/view/nat-geo-national-geographic-cheetah-crocodile-gif-3517685

[turbid ibex]

Sometimes you get staggered when taking damage

[hollow ibex]

Havoc exists

[half glade]

brauto is one example, also flamer on zealot, and grenadier gauntlet on ogryn

[half glade]

well, I can see logic here when it comes to aiming down the sights - but why should it affect weapons that are braced?

[turbid ibex]

Idk

I imagine its the same thing as when your melee attacks get interrupted from being hit mid-animation

[ocean idol]

because you are being stunned when you get hit

[turbid ibex]

Something like that

[ocean idol]

There are some talents that make you immune to stun

may be with those you don't get interrupted?

[half glade]

but how is it supposed to interrupt me bracing my gun, or turn the flamer's switch to continuous mode back? Stun is fine, but after you are out of it you should still be in the braced mode. Twitching it back and forth is one of the many frustrating experiences in the game

[sudden cedar]

Because game mechanics

[turbid ibex]

Ye its prob just a quirk of how the game is coded

[ocean idol]

because being stunned probably simply resets your character to "default" state

if only we would get t-posing 😔

[turbid ibex]

It prob happened at some point in this game's history

[tall torrent]

It’s a deliberate design to make ranged weapons less effective at point blank ranges where you’re supposed to melee

[midnight wyvern]

id love to watch a high havoc game of someone running hellbore

[tall torrent]

It’s basically same “gameplay” as plasma but more backline

Aim head
Shoot
Except u do way more damage per shot

Also u have effectively infinite ammo => ur team can afford to run really ammo hungry setups

Downsides are next to no suppression vs ranged enemies & u basically have to backline

IIIa is a little closer to plasma and can play hybrid

IV is basically pure backline

[hybrid plover]

I should record sometimes. I pretty much exclusively use Helbore in h40 at this point if I'm running vet

[hybrid plover]

This is straight up cap wtf

[ocean idol]

"cap"

cringe lexic detected

opinion disregarded

[hybrid plover]

It's not even an opinion lol

[mortal aspen]

what the skibidi

[sharp epoch]

helbore is also a lot more team reliant with no good hordeclear in the build because no melee talents and it takes either ds or knife for positioning/running

[mortal aspen]

why not take taxe with shredders

mobility and decent clear

[hybrid plover]

I run my helbore going right side for smokes

Very fun

[ocean idol]

bruh

hellbore right side

is stupidest build i ever heard

[sharp epoch]

If vets had blitz nodes like arb and ogryn where you could just pick without changing the build I'd probably run smokes too

[hybrid plover]

It's the build I've won h40 the most eith

It's almost like, experimenting with off meta stuff can actually provide results you may not expect.

[mortal aspen]

is weapon specialist too much troll for helbore?

[ocean idol]

And?

You can do it with grey gear

And no talents

[hybrid plover]

It's honestly not at all.

[sharp epoch]

a lot of h40 wins are a mix of team comp and also the rng of the match, helbore actually compliments teams with already very good hordeclear and cc like taunt ogryn + book zealot + trauma psyker

[hybrid plover]

Yep.

I fancy myself a specialist hunter

[ocean idol]

[mortal aspen]

it's not a stupid build if it can do well in h40

the hardest difficulty of the game

[sharp epoch]

that said, if the team is more individualistic like just arbs and charge zealot/ogryn, I don't see helbore doing very well

[hybrid plover]

If you have a team that's capable of the crowd control, you're the one who basically invalidates the existence of specialists and guns which are usually the worst culprits in h40.

[hybrid plover]

Tbf those teams tend not to do well no matter what you use to compliment them unless the players themselves are also just incredibly skilled.

[sonic kayak]

Which is the number one issue with Havoc IMO

Case in point: a flame Psyker, an Arby, and a book Zealot

[hybrid plover]

An all offense team in Havoc is honestly not it lmao

[sonic kayak]

We keep dying because of no fucking CC

imagine that

Not bad spawns or boss rushes

literally just dying to hordes

[sharp epoch]

dying to hordes on any class except vet is uncommon

[sonic kayak]

Yet here we are

Honestly I see most Arbies fold to hordes

I generally don't accept them because I have never been an a situation that makes me go "man I wish an Arby were here"

[heavy rover]

I mean I run helbore on havoc 40's regularly... Actually I only run helbore these days

[ocean idol]

How the fuck would you die to hordes with flame psyker

[hybrid plover]

By being swarmed from behind because no one is controlling the horde.

It happens.

[sonic kayak]

Or specialists that don't get dealt with

Can't forget positioning

[sharp epoch]

They're more a generalist class, but they do pretty much everything well just not the best best

[midnight wyvern]

i mean

neat

I still want to watch one lol

[sonic kayak]

Which is why I don't care for 'em

[midnight wyvern]

its not a claim that they're not used, its an I want to watch it

[sonic kayak]

Never met an Arby that made me go "man this guy is awesome" and never been in a situation that makes me miss arby

Anyone else competent with their class you can immediately feel

[midnight wyvern]

I feel like I acknowledge the dog more than the fucking arbites

[hybrid plover]

This is exactly why I run the build I do.

Helbore is good for specialist killing, first and foremost. Smokes make specialists need to position themselves and open themselves to a laser to the dome, along with guns.

And then agile engagement is there for a constant 25% melee bonus.

During the match I had with Bushman actually, there wasn't a moment that I didn't have a shout available because both of us were specialist hunting together so the ability cooldown felt nearly non existent.

[ocean idol]

????????????

it takes time to load

you want instant snap shots to deal with specials

not fuckn half a year charge time

[midnight wyvern]

wot

why lol

also weight of fire

[hybrid plover]

Have you like

Ever used the Helbore.

Like straight up.

[midnight wyvern]

brother doesn't know what hellbore is

[hybrid plover]

Have you actually used it?

Because you're talking like you haven't. Genuinely.

[ocean idol]

Yes i fuckn did

[midnight wyvern]

[ocean idol]

Each your take is more insane thna previous one

[mortal aspen]

bro

it takes 0.2s to charge a shot

[hybrid plover]

... The one with the take people actually agree with sounds insane???

[ocean idol]

0.2 seconds that you lost

[hybrid plover]

What???

[mortal aspen]

well plasma must be bad then

because it shoots slowly

[ocean idol]

and no, it is longer than that

[midnight wyvern]

it takes you the same if not longer amount of time to aim that lol

and you can just charge between aiming shots

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s pretty slow

[midnight wyvern]

??

[tall torrent]

I’ve tested fire rates

[hybrid plover]

Specially mkiv

[mortal aspen]

okay it is slower than that

fine

how does it even matter tho

[hybrid plover]

It's not a fast firing weapon but that does not invalidate how strong it is.

[tall torrent]

IV is like <60rpm

Which is more than a second between fully charged shots

[ocean idol]

^

finally someone witha brain

[tall torrent]

With that said

[midnight wyvern]

[sonic kayak]

Basically

[tall torrent]

IV does hit harder than basically everything else

And hits real 1 taps on things that matter

And does boss damage

And has inf ammo

[hybrid plover]

There we go. A fast fire rate is not all that dictates a good weapon. It just isn't as user friendly because of the charge mechanic. If you work around that, you genuinely have one of the best options for higher level play.

It's reliable. It doesnt use much ammo. It doesn't get affected by suppression as much as other weapons.

If you want a good precision weapon that's rewarding, Helbore is genuinely one of the best options at providing that

[midnight wyvern]

I think my only thing so far has been good dog bombs on Burgles

since I can't stun them with shout

but dog can

and ofc the bomb is because of the player

[sonic kayak]

Burgles and frees you/team from the CS

[midnight wyvern]

I mean shout can do that

just not burg

[sonic kayak]

It can, but most people don't know or care

Hell you could even ledge bosses with it but most people are using it for the toughness

Me? I love the stagger on it

[mortal aspen]

am I crazy or can you block cancel and skip the delay between shots on the helbore?

[midnight wyvern]

[sonic kayak]

Muties, incoming overheads, bosses, etc

Same with the book

Same with Ogryn's charge and taunt

They have so much utility that gets glossed over

[tall torrent]

I think it’s just super restricting in build & playstyle

[midnight wyvern]

i mean sure but

I dunno where thats coming from lol

nobody said they didn't

[sonic kayak]

It's more me commenting on what I see in lobbies than anything

[midnight wyvern]

i just acknowledged dog bomb use has been good in my havocs

and that shout couldn't stagger BoN

[hybrid plover]

This is a reasonable take on it

[tall torrent]

It could be better still

[hollow ibex]

Dog bomb is amazing

[tall torrent]

I think a reduction in charge time across all 3 variants + giving them good sights would be a reasonable buff

They’re just a little below perfect imo

[mortal aspen]

🤔

[hybrid plover]

Honestly I think the IV needs it more than the other variants.

Iron sights though.

That I can agree with lol

[tall torrent]

Nah give it to all 3
But not same value across all 3

IV maybe 25%

IIIa maybe 20%

V maybe 15%

[hybrid plover]

V really just feels like a spicy infantry lasgun to me tbh

[tall torrent]

V is highest dps actually

Purely because it shoots significant faster

But this is a case where higher dps doesn’t mean better

[hybrid plover]

Missing key breakpoints by single digit numbers on several enemies. 🥹

[mortal aspen]

what are the perks for mk 4?

[tall torrent]

Maniac unyielding

For both IIIa and IV

[mortal aspen]

with unyielding it should oneshot auric reapers, yeah?

idk about havoc

[tall torrent]

On crit headshot

And for havoc u need dedicated spec

[mortal aspen]

i'm trying without rn and it almost oneshots without unyield

[tall torrent]

Dedicated spec is usually with BiD + focus target

Taking middle bottom

[mortal aspen]

bid?

[tall torrent]

Bring it down

20% ogryn/monster damage

It’s not required for most builds most of the time

[midnight wyvern]

[turbid ibex]

Its nice in the higher difficulties when the game spams these types of enemies

Y'know what would be funny with this node?

If the damage bonus applied twice to plague ogryns

[hollow ibex]

Leave poor plogryns alone

They’re already the most bullied boss as is

[tropic halo]

True they deserved to be bullied more

[turbid ibex]

it would be funny tho

[hybrid plover]

Fuck em. Bastards are more of a pain in the ass than they have any business being sometimes.

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-writing-fire-his-writing-is-fire-is-this-fire-hold-up-gif-15400153686296022809

[hybrid plover]

I recall a h40. Where our entire team wiped because while we were dealing with a crusher horde, a pogryn went through it like the kool aid man and caught all of us in the charge and knocked us off the map

In truth, somewhat of a skill issue but still.

[tall torrent]

nah u don't need it if u have good weapons

it's just a "win more"

[hollow ibex]

They’re actually fun to fight though, unlike the other bosses

[tall torrent]

not super relevant they're already the overall easiest monster to kill in the game

[turbid ibex]

Again

It'd be funny

[tall torrent]

chaos spawn can be killed hilariously fast but usually gives more pressure to teams

[sharp epoch]

If you can keep it staggered yeah it melts super quick, also why book zealot is pretty OP

[void dragon]

Is there any well defined priority on bosses? Like killing the BoN first over the self regenerating shields of the captain?

[narrow frost]

you can walk away from Captains and BoN

depending on situation

Cspawn is the worse

ogryn can be close if there is a ledge

[tame lodge]

CSpawn leaping from across the map

https://tenor.com/view/saltar-lebron-james-space-jam-a-new-legacy-space-jam-una-nueva-era-brincar-gif-22358078

[tall torrent]

move purple captain away from the rest if possible
if this is achievable, kill bosses that pressure team the hardest (terrain context dependent)
if not, kill purple captain asap while kiting the rest, then finish off the rest based on how much they pressure the team

BoN is high pressure in narrow areas with not a lot of space to walk around

chaos spawn is high pressure in areas where u can get ledged easily

[tame lodge]

Hab Dreyko stairs section, my betrothed

[tall torrent]

twins are always high pressure but if the area can get players ledged easily, chaos spawn is higher priority

twins also die super fast usually because they don't have health gate for mandatory shield refill and have 2x melee weakness

[void dragon]

Honestly there needs to be a rule that says "If purple captain, one man shall pick it to dance in a corner while the rest clean whatever mess this is" people draw aggro on the boss too soon when there are still TONS of other enemies that doesn't need more healing

[tall torrent]

purple has a heal radius of 5m which is pretty small
u essentially have to have 1 player solo him away from the team

[void dragon]

The gun twin is the one with X2 melee weakness?

[tall torrent]

both of them have 2x melee weakness

ex: power sword VI energized push atk is around 1.7k on weakspot vs carapace

vs any twin, it's ~3.5k

[void dragon]

I thought that one had ranged weakness on its shield, didn't knew it's HP had a different mod of damage

[tall torrent]

and they get a guaranteed heavy stagger when their void shield breaks

if anyone has skullcrusher they die in <3s

[void dragon]

"Oh boy, a piñata!" -Loyal orgyns build for boss nuking

[tall torrent]

skullcrusher + taunt (dmg taken debuff) on ogryn is usually the best boss melting enabler

second best is zealot with +30% dmg for team on full chorus and +10% crit chance to teammates from piety

stalwart + infectious is better if ur gonna run chorus support zealot cuz piety will always be up from all the enemies the team kills
and 10% crit chance is pretty significant value for psyker, veteran and arb

highest boss dmg spec for duelling sword is relentless + precog

I haven't checked the exact kill time for it but it is better than uncanny

u just, trade away a lot of consistent carapace crunching potential

uncanny + relentless is a more balanced approach

however for boss melting, power sword is usually better because u have much higher burst for the time window given

relic blade on a FotF piety build is comparable to power sword in monster dps in auric because u can actually kill a monster in 1 heat meter

but in havoc where enemies have boosted health u will have to turn the sword off which makes it quite a bit worse

ogryn melee highest monster dps is branx light spam

followed by borovian light spam (~10% worse than branx light spam)

club's boss dps is not nearly as good as these two on its own but it gets skullcrusher so in a team context it can help more

[void dragon]

Zealot support is probably the only thing I run on the darned class, probably would try seeing if I'm giving it a twist for more of a damage battery with either Relic or Evisc than the perpetual singer with knife mic

[void dragon]

How much is the drop on boss crunching if you do folding shovel heavy spam?

[tall torrent]

eviscerator boss dps is kinda underwhelming tbh
the dmg windows for bosses are not long enough for full rev atks and u lose a big chunk of dmg if u don't get the full atk off

[void dragon]

Mk5 specifically

[tall torrent]

it's ass because u attack crazy slow

[void dragon]

Yeah, but I'm thinking on crit blessings to enable more uptime for team, not much for self improving numbers

[void dragon]

But how much? "It's ass" is no number because ogryn can understand it

[tall torrent]

a h40 scale plague ogryn has 102k health unyielding

I'll put it this way

ur essentially doing a krak grenade's dmg

per held-charged heavy atk

which is not good

u can throw krak grenades at 60k hp plague ogryns in meat grinder and see how many it takes to kill one

then multiply that by 1.7

[hybrid plover]

They are. And people say they're the easiest but they can be deceptfully problematic sometimes

[void dragon]

Evidence that Kraks need more damage

Also that heavy attacks have really felt from grace in the ogryn weaponry, which makes me sad

[tall torrent]

if u mean the thrust+crunch heavy atk playstyle

that has always been ass

because attacking thrice for 300% dmg is better than holding 1 attack that deals at most 256% dmg (max thrust + crunch)

while also being safer

and it scales better with atk speed

because thrust and crunch are fixed time scale for stacks and don't stack faster from atk speed

whereas hitting things faster does

so it's looking more like attacking 3~4 times for up to 400% dmg compared to holding 1 attack that does 256%

this also doesn't account for bleed

[void dragon]

Feels that the base values of lights and heavies should have more saying in this but it doesn't feel like is worth heavy attacking that much unless you are winding while sliding to catch that fleeing rager that is going for the psyker

[tall torrent]

4 attacks is 8 stacks of bleed minimum

which is added onto that 400% dmg

the only thing thrust+crunch is good for is one hitting enemies

which is a breakpoint optimized playstyle
in the mode (havoc) where most breakpoints are fked even before DR mutators are in play (orange)

and the only enemies that are worth 1 hitting for this set up are mauler, crusher and bulwark

u still only kill 1 at a time

it doesn't make u stronger against anything else

[hybrid plover]

Martyr chorus with taxe. :)

[void dragon]

That 256% number accounts for the (supposedly) higher value of the heavy attack? Is the difference between light and heavy so small?

[tall torrent]

if the "remove movement penalty when charging heavy atk" talent was baked into crunch

I think it could be nicer?

[void dragon]

Honestly? Probably a good idea

[tall torrent]

it depends on the attack

[hybrid plover]

Genuinely my favorite zealot build.

[tall torrent]

but the end result is that getting 3~4 atks off is safer and more reliable with higher sustained dps

[hybrid plover]

Attack speed and damage get to high enough numbers that brutal momentum actually becomes consistent and you can put unyielding on it to make it a little boss killer.

Even on h40.

[void dragon]

Feels that you don't need that, specially with sliding, would want something that makes heavy weaving play style more rewarding if you ask me

[hybrid plover]

And it is very easy to keep chorus uptime with pious Cutthroat

[tall torrent]

just play borovian pickaxe or mk4 cleaver if u want heavy light mix

[hybrid plover]

I posted a scoreboard with this build actually

Lemme find it.

[void dragon]

I have come to use Mk6 cleaver with the blessing that let you heavy attack through Caparace, that's how deranged I am for the heavy attacks

[tall torrent]

lol that blessing is garbage

[void dragon]

Indeed, but I can heavy attack everything!

[tall torrent]

Do u have any idea how slow “fully charged heavy atk” is

[void dragon]

Is not fully charged

[tall torrent]

Fully charged heavy atk is not thrust 3 stack

[void dragon]

You can spam heavy and it works

SOMEHOW

[tall torrent]

Fully charged heavy attack is held to the very last moment where the attack automatically goes off

[void dragon]

Idk who coded that but is not fully charged

[tall torrent]

If u don’t get that then it’s not fully charged

[void dragon]

Its cleaving crushers, it works (not all the time but most of it)

Seriously, I want to meet the man that is coding this game at some point, I need answers from him

[tame lodge]

Oh you can cleave through carapace

[tall torrent]

Yea but the weapon itself is not good vs carapace

[tame lodge]

Still applies mass shenanigans
But fully charged you just ignore mass

[tall torrent]

It’s not like sunder

Where it’s on a weapon that’s actually good vs carapace

[tame lodge]

Yeah I run a build where I can tickle 11 crushers in a single swing

It's peak

[void dragon]

Peak

Indeed

[tall torrent]

I do think it’s a bit weird that club’s single target is push atk + L + H

[void dragon]

Still don't know WHY it works, sometimes, outside of fully charged attacks

[tall torrent]

And the push atk comes out a bit later than expected

[void dragon]

The mk3 one? Yeah, it's oddly timed, even if the overhead swing is satisfying

[hybrid plover]

Most aggressive chorus user

I was trying it with knife and it's better for boss damage but honestly, taxe just works much better for the setup tbh

It's just risky because you have to be low health to really take advantage of the setup and that's a gamble in h40.

But you're also tankier against guns because of the crazy tdr

[plain osprey]

Id love for power sword to work like relic blade

[hybrid plover]

Very fun build. Would recommend.

[hybrid plover]

Honestly they'd have to rework it entirely because it would just be objectively better.

And by a large margin too.

[void dragon]

So taxe WANTS to run martyrdom for those breakpoints? Sounds exciting, but will give it a try later (I'm actually Nurgle cursed in hospital)

[hybrid plover]

Notice how I nearly have as many headshots as melee kills?

[tall torrent]

Objectively worse because u will have to use the inactivated attacks

[atomic void]

buff unpowered attacks

boom

[tall torrent]

And the thing is

[hybrid plover]

Hordes get cleaved through like butter and that's not even full martyr stacks.

[tall torrent]

Relic blade’s inactivated attacks are not good either

They’re just serviceable for basic horde enemies

[hybrid plover]

I use a stamina curio and two wounds.

[hybrid plover]

If you lock in, IMHO it makes chorus actually fun to play.

[hybrid plover]

Objectively better and worse. Since it's way stronger activated but way weaker unactivated

[tall torrent]

It’s worse because u can’t make every attack activated and u still have to block cancel every 3 attacks

And power sword’s inactivated attacks are garbage at best

[hybrid plover]

Yeah but I thought this was assuming that power sword would just continue to be activated after the three attacks.

Like relic blade where it's an overheat mechanic.

[tall torrent]

Still have to block cancel to reset light combo

[hybrid plover]

Ah yeah the moveset itself.

Now I see what you're getting at

[tall torrent]

It’s an objective downgrade

[hybrid plover]

I rest my case. You're right about that.

[tall torrent]

An alternative they could do is to set power sword’s base activated attacks to 3
And rework power cycler to massively buff inactivated attacks for a while after landing activated attack hits on enemies

But it’s prob not happening

[narrow widget]

lowk feels better to use tho

[hybrid plover]

Fatshark being intuitive?

[tall torrent]

Idk it’s just a rhythm for me at this point

[narrow widget]

like ok yea it's objectively worse but if it feels better it feels better

[tall torrent]

Relic blade feels worse to me because of lower damage + no activation animation cancel

[narrow widget]

I know a lot of people who picked up power sword, tried it out, saw that the swing only activated for 1-3 strikes and then quit

then went to relic blade and could activate it for more than like 2 seconds and liked that a lot better

[hybrid plover]

Relic blade is more "user friendly".

[tall torrent]

it's fine cuz they got 2 variants of a heat meter power sword in files

second power sword family

[hybrid plover]

More investment in needing to activate after every three attacks.

[tall torrent]

current power sword is a very rhythm/vibe based melee

[narrow widget]

that shit fizzles out faster than my will to live

[hybrid plover]

But that crusher didn't like it very much.

[void dragon]

The crusher life expectancy is lower than Nitoric's will to live

[plain osprey]

True. Feels like im swinging a steel pipe

And even powered the sword feels clunky af

[hollow ibex]

A steel pipe would do more damage. This is more like an inflatable pool toy.

[plain osprey]

I hate how true this statement is

[hybrid plover]

Yeah its outrageously bad trying to use it without charging

Like unnecessarily bad.

[plain osprey]

Its borderline unusable unpowered

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-fight-sword-hit-balloon-gif-5397664

[void dragon]

Unactivated Psword Vs Paul, the pool noodle fight

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent I wish the relic blade had sunder

Does sunder effect push attacks on the ps?

Was gonna ask

[tropic notch]

I like it tbh

Relic is cool

[tropic notch]

Not really

You can

But I wouldn’t recommend it

Peity >

[untold nymph]

Is dueling sword any good?

[sudden cedar]

It is actually not good.

That is why its getting nerfed too.

Eventually.

this was a joke

Dueling Sword is one of the most broken melee weapons that ever existed and exists in this game.

[tropic notch]

Unironically if you want a better dueling sword I’d use tac axe

[tame lodge]

Extremely good

[tropic notch]

On psyker and zealot its good

[tame lodge]

If you want a worse dueling sword you play taxe

[tropic notch]

Ds just sucks on vet

If you were to use one I’d go mk5

Good horde clear good single target

[tame lodge]

Why not mk2

Better horde clear

Better single target

[tropic notch]

Me hates the mk2 combos

[hybrid plover]

Shhhh let them experiment

[tropic notch]

[hybrid plover]

Look I tried it for shits and giggles and it's a genuinely fun build.

[tropic notch]

It’s good

You gotta juice attack speed for it to clear tho

And even then I believe the knife is faster at horde clear than ds

Unless you’re using mk2 ds

[heavy rover]

it's all shits and giggles till the Beast of Nurgle giggles and shits

[hybrid plover]

Martyrdom juices tf out of that

[tropic notch]

@dawn garnet your disciple is here

Marty user detected

[hybrid plover]

[tall torrent]

which part

[tropic notch]

The thrust

[tall torrent]

...

no
which part of sunder

[tropic notch]

Guh

[tropic notch]

There’s parts to sunder?

[tall torrent]

yea

[hybrid plover]

The heavy attack damage part or the cleave part I'm assuming is what they mean

[tall torrent]

the cleave part or the dmg part

[tropic notch]

Oh damage

My bad oops

[tall torrent]

Does the push attack look like a heavy attack to u

[tropic notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1027335984964190312/1412205492348129330/cat-ts-pmo.gif

No

[hybrid plover]

Does a lot of fraggin damage so might as well be

[tropic notch]

It could be like for honor

[tall torrent]

Congratulations u answered ur own question

https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-squid-game-2-cheers-happy-excited-gif-13406404385856133045

[tropic notch]

A very fast heavy

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/steamhappy-happy-happysteam-steam-gif-1779654035932426850

[tropic notch]

Who are you playing on bl3?

[tall torrent]

Fl4k

[tropic notch]

It’s hard not to play him

[tall torrent]

His drip is cool

[tropic notch]

“Arby”

[tall torrent]

Same reason I played zer0 in BL2

[tropic notch]

Gunzerker and psycho were my goats

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1122994998699364494/1411807625821290496/Screenshot_20250831_032239.png?ex=68b8a2d0&is=68b75150&hm=9d21c014dab95fab7c7ae7de62f23c225cf04c4dc80d7548c032504cd64c8837&

[tropic notch]

I wanted to play maya

And gaige wasn’t fun

Axton sucked!

Zero

Never touched him

[tall torrent]

I’m still considering if I wanna get BL4 on release

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-dog-brian-dog-cooked-wallahi-im-finished-cooked-dog-gif-1849480349705279416

[tropic notch]

Me too

[tall torrent]

It’s looking like a really great game to pick up in 2 years on sale and I mean it very unironically

[tropic notch]

Path can you get me some Chinese fine shyts

[tropic notch]

True true

From what I saw it looks actually good

Hope

Hope for a lot of new games

[tall torrent]

Speak English

What are u talking about

[tame lodge]

Nihao fine shyt

Skibidi rizz

https://tenor.com/view/cillianmurphygun-cillianmurphy-jazmincoded-gif-3811002643797340103

[tropic notch]

“Where can I find single Chinese women”

[tall torrent]

I’m unfortunately not autistic therefore unable to speak brainrot

[tall torrent]

Step 1
Don’t

[tropic notch]

They day i brainrot path will be soon

[tropic notch]

Don’t gatekeep

[tall torrent]

Where are u again?

US?

[tropic notch]

Yarp

I sure am

[tall torrent]

Are u like
Looking for American Chinese women
Or Chinese women from China

[tropic notch]

Game is game

[tropic notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1027335984964190312/1412205492348129330/cat-ts-pmo.gif

Chinese women from China

[tall torrent]

Yea ok

Step 1
Don’t.

[tropic notch]

Elaborate

[tall torrent]

The Chinese marriage market is FUBAR

Lemme ask u a very simple question

[tropic notch]

Fubar?

[tall torrent]

Do u have 30k+ USD saved up in ur bank account

That can be thrown at a whim

[tropic notch]

Hell no

[tall torrent]

Ok give up

[tropic notch]

Hold on now

Maybe I do

Then what

[hollow ibex]

could you settle for a single chinese man instead

plenty of those around

[tall torrent]

Buy ur way into a gold digger’s heart

What else were u thinking

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-reacts-flightreacts-tongue-tongue-laugh-gif-13724048537815479089

[tropic notch]

Yeah but fr I’m good I trust your judgement

Path sifu is very wise

[tall torrent]

I’m not joking
The Chinese marriage market is FUBAR

As in

“Fked up beyond all repair”

It’ll take at least a decade before it gets anywhere better

[tame lodge]

💀

[tropic notch]

“Marriage market”?

[tall torrent]

Yea

Are u seriously expecting love in this economy

[tropic notch]

Like as in types of people?

[tropic notch]

There is 7 billion people

Like most of them are in China

I could get a country girl

[tall torrent]

Uh
Don’t.

[tropic notch]

Will she eat random creatures

[tame lodge]

😭

[tall torrent]

No it’s just likelier that she and u will have nothing in common and it’ll require extraordinary events to get u two together

And u prob still need to throw at least 10k USD

[tropic notch]

I love the instagram reels where they eat a literal concept

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/phineas-and-ferb-phineas-i-know-what-were-going-to-do-today-gif-15622268

[tall torrent]

Because in Chinese traditional concepts (even tho it’s being twisted by radical feminists in China to be in women’s favor)

U gotta pay ur girl’s family a huge sum of money to marry her

[tropic notch]

“Yeah I’ll have the 🌫️ “

[tropic notch]

Owari da…

Thailand here I come

[narrow widget]

you dont want this bro

🙏

[tall torrent]

(With that said the actual tradition of this was to marry women of high social status and there are a lot of expectations on the women’s part in this, some are very outdated, some aren’t

But of course modern radical feminism loves double standards)

[tropic notch]

I mean this can also be said about the us as well

[narrow widget]

if we're talking like shanghai/beijing girls theyre entitled as fuck as well

[tropic notch]

I visited California and I don’t ever wanna go back

There’s nothing there

[tall torrent]

It depends

Obv there’re good people everywhere

You’re just statistically less likely to find them

[tropic notch]

Real

I mean I’d say that what a lot of modern dating is

[tall torrent]

One major event in recent years was a guy using the actual traditions to fight back which caused a lot of controversy

[narrow widget]

i think the close proximity to all the da ma in the cities makes people go crazy

[tall torrent]

By that I mean he got swarmed by a bajillion “feminists” attacking him

[tropic notch]

China Is cooked

Well young men in China are

[tall torrent]

But it’s starting to spread and it might get better in a decade

Cuz at the end of the day those women attacking him for saying that he won’t pay if the girl is unwilling to do examinations prob are not getting married ever lol

[tropic notch]

I thought China was real big into traditional stuff

That could be propaganda

[tall torrent]

Sorta yes sorta no

Ur chances of finding a Chinese girl that’s coming over to the US for study is much greater

With that said

Look at ur own gov and figure out the rest

[narrow widget]

you have older generations who like the traditional stuff and then you have younger generations who want progress

[hollow ibex]

So many of them where I’m at lol

[tropic notch]

Yeah it seems like it’s progressing backwards

[narrow widget]

if you visit china 90% of cities have the old district and then the technology district

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/black-adam-gif-26989330

[tall torrent]

China on the whole is more progressive than most places
But that doesn’t remove a lot of the conservative traditional ideas within because the civilization has existed for so long, some things are just very deep rooted

[tropic notch]

I noticed that

[hollow ibex]

I don’t think so. You just said you hated CA right

[tropic notch]

Oh yeah I’m sorry

I’m so sorry i have a spare room if you wanna move in

Ca housing market is crazy

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

Unless you go live in the ovens of central CA

[narrow widget]

i feel bad for californians but at the same time ill be one in about 3 weeks

💀

[tropic notch]

I live in Tennessee and apparently it’s one of the cheapest states lol

[tall torrent]

Also a sizeable portion of them prob aren’t staying in the US after they finish their studies

[hollow ibex]

F

[narrow widget]

lowk a lot of them might stay in the US for the foreseeable future considering the job market is

less than ideal

[tropic notch]

I make my pilgrimage to the bass pro shop pyramid every once in awhile

[tall torrent]

They’re staying for the job market in the US?

[narrow widget]

?

[tropic notch]

Job market in the us is absolutely abysmal

[hollow ibex]

tbf... i've dated a lot of girls like that

prob just depends where you're at

[tall torrent]

I know china’s current job market is ass but no way it’s as cooked as US’s rn

[hollow ibex]

and what field

[narrow widget]

depends on the place but im pretty sure its on average a lot worse than the US job market rn

[tropic notch]

“Please we need people to work” they will give you 2 days with 4 hours shifts with biweekly pay

[narrow widget]

but at the same time living costs here are so much higher

[tropic notch]

Im lucky to own my own home and car that are paid for

[tall torrent]

Nah no way it’s as bad as or worse than US’s rn

[tropic notch]

Unironically you can’t find low skilled labor

Like in factory’s

They will have up we’re hiring

They will hire you

Work you to death

You quit

The cycle continues

Or fire you because of poor training

Mandatory overtime would drive me insane

[narrow widget]

the US job market is slowing down rn but its still really strong compared to the rest of the world imo
i think like
yeah you see a lot of pessimism about it but thats reflected everywhere else as well

in a lot of places (like china's) to a greater extent than in the us

although a >5% increase in youth unemployment over the past 3 years is not good either

[hollow ibex]

There’s always the army

Join the Guard. Enlist today!

[tall torrent]

Idk I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as US’s
Job losses are bound to happen from upgrading manufacturing sectors especially since China been doing that for the last 10y
A lot of the unemployed youth is in specific sectors they wanted to go to that are highly competitive internally but the lower end jobs are quite abundant on top of drastically lower living costs depending on the area
And with the orange man cooking in the background US’s situation can get a lot worse from this point onward
Plus, most of the economic gains in the US are nearly completely nonexistent for the avg person because of tremendous wealth disparity between the avg joe and the elite

With MIC2025 coming to an end it’ll transition towards a more stable period

[narrow widget]

a lot of the US job market stems from recession fears in the current administration so i think we'll have an upturn in a few weeks-months
while china has had a large employment crisis (19% youth unemployment) thats been going on for the past few years and shows no sign of getting better

• as china shifts towards a more highly educated population the low-skilled labor is going to leave
  a lot of factory jobs have already started going to vietnam and other SEA countries

[tall torrent]

It’s in large part because of the manufacturing sectors’ upgrades

[hollow ibex]

ok let's be real, we don't know what unemployment looks like in china because the numbers are all made up anyway

[tall torrent]

Those new key industries are hyper competitive internally

[hollow ibex]

and now the US thinks that's a great idea too

so going forward, who knows whether the US numbers are accurate either

[tall torrent]

Nah that 19% is pretty real

But seeing a 19% doesn’t tell the whole story

There’s a lot that goes into this

They got problems they need to fix

[narrow widget]

even outside the 19% theres a large set of people "technically" employed but could still be counted as structurally unemployed

[tall torrent]

And this number is like
Across the entire country

Tier1 cities are functionally very different from the rest

[tropic notch]

Just like the us

[narrow widget]

job market numbers are never accurate until like 5-10 years after their initial report

[tropic notch]

I honestly think the internal struggles of big countries are the same

[narrow widget]

like even this year theres been a huge change in the numbers because of ghost jobs

[tropic notch]

Especially China and the us

[tall torrent]

There’s a very substantial difference between managing a country with 1.4 billion people and managing a country with 340 million people

Something’s bound to go wrong whenever any big policy comes into play

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

Also like

I could be wrong but

I’m pretty sure we don’t rly have the concept of “self employed” in China

Even freelance contractor is fairly new to us

[tall torrent]

Good luck finding a good Chinese woman tho

[hollow ibex]

poor man afflicted with yellow fever

get well soon 🙏

[narrow widget]

🙏

my condolences in advance fyre

[tall torrent]

I personally think his chances with SK/JP girls are much higher

[hollow ibex]

why not NK

[tall torrent]

However he mained knife for >2 weeks in darktide so it’s not looking that good either

[narrow widget]

setting him up for failure I see

[hollow ibex]

i hardly see any korean/JP girls where i'm at tbh

there's just way fewer of them than chinese

[tall torrent]

for some reason I see almost as many SK girls here as chinese

[hollow ibex]

i guess it's just a location thing

[tall torrent]

maybe quebec truly is one of the places of all time

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-true-nodding-gif-13973817878387504960

[tropic notch]

Ok now what about Thai

Or Filipino

[tropic notch]

I’m redeemed I use tac axe now

[tropic notch]

I should throw bibles over the border

[tropic notch]

This is the funniest thing I’ve heard in a minute

[narrow widget]

Filipino dudes I'd say you have a shot

[tropic notch]

I knew the answer would be slightly racist

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1027335984964190312/1412205492348129330/cat-ts-pmo.gif

Dudes?

Me thinks

Me don’t want that

Mi tink mi wan som woman not de brudda

[tall torrent]

ur cooked

[tall torrent]

idk them well
but thailand was pretty cool when I went there on a trip

great seafood

[tropic notch]

I wish women were real

This all started because of a joke I’d never thought the convo would turn into this

[hybrid plover]

Funny enough that I didn't catch this earlier on break but I was trying my helbore build with mk5

Man those dodges are crazy good.

[hollow ibex]

kraks being cracked

[tall torrent]

Nah horde clear still abysmal

[hybrid plover]

It's better than mk4 at least.

And admittedly, to it's credit, it can manage a horde better.

[tall torrent]

Not a high bar to pass

“Good horde clear” gotta be at least chainsword equivalent

Which, most melee weapons aren’t

[hybrid plover]

Yeah no I agree. It still isn't great. But there's some benefit to using it beyond the horde clear.

[tall torrent]

It’s not even remotely close to mid

[hollow ibex]

gotta say, love pulling off these slick moves with the hsword

https://tenor.com/view/sword-gif-18156814

[fossil lake]

This end-screen Stance is a little dark

[midnight wyvern]

big

them chunking half a healthbar off a captain in H40 is

[grand perch]

You're overestimating the damage they do

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/F02j8XnWUi

[midnight wyvern]

im not lol

I've been doing this the last 3 days

with full 8 stacks mark from focus target and skullcrusher it does heaps of damage to the shield spamming captains

usually skipping a couple shield phases or just outright killing if they're on the lower end

[meager echo]

Guys does smoke grenade interfere with the ai of captain, or only range twin. Most vet (h40- hong kong) i play with take smoke instead of frag + survivalist, is smoke more valueable than frag in h40.

[sudden cedar]

As always, it depends.

When you have other ways in your setup that will handle crowd control and AoE Damage, taking smokes might be better.

[steep flower]

Krakmeister

[sudden cedar]

Very nice Kraks!

[meager echo]

most vet i play with go PS instead of dueling sword as well. And they deal insane melee dmg as well.

[sudden cedar]

The potential is there.

Power Sword is horrible for mobility tho.

[steep flower]

And using the best mark too mah man

[steep flower]

If void shield won’t pop up that is

[sudden cedar]

Imagine you chunk only half the HP bar and not 75%

[steep flower]

Thats the point; with such buffs like skullcrusher even shot pistol for arby does good boss dmg
Kraks are not great in general for captains due to shield gating and unless you’re in a premade with communication most of the time the shield gets up before krak goes off, wasting it

[steep flower]

i know what you mean; what we did together to the ppl yesterday

[sudden cedar]

They never stood a chance.

Where is your strength now?!

dies

[steep flower]

A perfect example of delusional

[sudden cedar]

He tried okay?

[meager echo]

maybe the meta is different in different sever. Maybe i should switch sv to check what people run on vet to confirm this lol.

[sudden cedar]

Meta might things easier, but.. i don't think so. People still suck with meta loadouts.

[meager echo]

you can check right now, on hongkong they run smoke

all of them in h40 lobby

eu run ds + fraf

i just check..

[midnight wyvern]

and?

people can run whatever they want

[meager echo]

i mean, in different sv they refer different build, thats all

[steep flower]

They can… but the effects may vary

[meager echo]

i mean, i read all the info about smoke dont work properly on reddit, and they take smoke in every lobby i play in my sv

[midnight wyvern]

uh huh

[steep flower]

[steep flower]

These ppl usually dunno how smokes work to begin with nor they dunno how to use them effectively

[sudden cedar]

I can see why this makes sense.

[steep flower]

• its reddit; questionable knowledge there majority of the time

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower Oh yes, very much.

[meager echo]

I mean no offense, i just want to learn, thats why i ask stuff. English is not my 1st language so i may sound off lol

[sudden cedar]

So far, i can understand everything. And english is not my 1st language either.

🙂

[turbid ibex]

Same

Ngl i feel like on average people who arent native english speakers tend to have better english than actual native speakers lol

[sudden cedar]

That is what i have heard too.

[grand perch]

Reddit and smoke nades is just a barrage of misinformation

Actually let me correct that

Reddit is just a barrage of misinformation

[meager echo]

holly hell, that where most of my info come from xD

[sudden cedar]

I do love reddit for this tho. It gives me a chuckle. And ideas.

[steep flower]

I can coach ya & explain stuff later if you wanna; i’m at work now

[sudden cedar]

Someone there wrote you need X weapon to make it through the event mission on Gloriana. So i purposefully used a Thunder Hammmer

[turbid ibex]

X weapon actually just turns out to be stubborness

[meager echo]

what shock me the most is the frag grenade thing, on utube and reddit there are plenty of videos explain why smoke is bad. And when i play in hongkong everyone take smoke .

[sudden cedar]

@turbid ibex I don't quite remember the weapon they advocated for.

[steep flower]

Popular youtubers dunno shit about smokes

They even perform average with meta loadouts

That should be enough insight

[sudden cedar]

[turbid ibex]

Which ones you talking about?

[meager echo]

i think mr.e has a video on how smoke is the worst grenade

tanner has one as well

[turbid ibex]

Also idk the main thing that annoys me about smokes is them also obstructing sights for teammates

[meager echo]

i use a mod to turn that off, clear smoke is the name if i remember correctly

but withou the mod, i think the vissual effect is really bad

like unplayable

[turbid ibex]

⬅️

[meager echo]

then its unplayable with smoke tbh

[steep flower]

Mr.E is a perfect example

[sudden cedar]

What are the pros and cons there i wonder?

[steep flower]

Mod fixes it if you can’t see; i don’t use it and it’s fine

[crude wind]

Smokes have always been good, they are just in a shit place on the tree and very few people understand how they work

[turbid ibex]

If it at least highlighted enemies inside the cloud i'd be much more chill with it

[crude wind]

If Vet gets the Arbites and Ogryn treatment, I would expect to see them more

[steep flower]

Ah dogbox
I mean Xbox

[meager echo]

yeah most vet in my sv avoid the tax by not taking survivalist, some take survivalist but have to aban the melee node on the bottom right

[crude wind]

Yes, Vet is very linear in its build right now

[steep flower]

WS is not needed

[crude wind]

I have hope for the future though

[steep flower]

Zealot

[crude wind]

Tbh they feel the same to me

1 build

[turbid ibex]

Zealot is def worse

[steep flower]

Nah; vet has some variance; zealot almost 1 dimentional

[crude wind]

Sure sure

In either case

They are not fun to build

[turbid ibex]

But its like comparing two pieces of dogshit

[steep flower]

What a mistake to not take survivalist; never not take it

[steep flower]

poor craftsman blames their tools

[crude wind]

Well yeah

Look at the talent tree

XD

[steep flower]

poor craftsman blames their tools

[turbid ibex]

poor craftsman blames their tools

[crude wind]

A poor tool blames the craftsmen

[steep flower]

I think you do not understand the meaning of the proverb but thats ok

[crude wind]

I understand it perfectly but I feel you are insinuating something that isn't true

[meager echo]

playing without survivalist is miserable, only vet take amo

[steep flower]

I don’t insinuate; i mean it

[turbid ibex]

Well i misunderstand it perfectly

So we cancel each other out

[crude wind]

So you think Vet tree is fine and needs no updates?

[meager echo]

i need a tree where i can take ws, smoke and survivalist -.-

dream tree

[sudden cedar]

Zealot Tree is quite painful yes.

[jolly ivy]

what tree, that shit is straight line

[meager echo]

i like to yell sir

xD

[jolly ivy]

i hate zealot builds man, you pick the last 4 points or w/e and that's it, everything is the same