veteran-class

[magic trout]

With the other skill point you can go for twinned blast for crod control

[hybrid plover]

I have never seen a soul actually recommend camouflage.

I don't use mmf enough to really have an input but that's a new one for me

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/bYcf9C1

this is why

[hybrid plover]

Oh jitter crouch.

Okay that actually checks out.

[covert fable]

the build is fun but lack of dmg

i can almost oneshot reapers

[calm shard]

camouflage means you can easily dodge slide your way to max stacks off one headshot

[covert fable]

but full unga bunga dmg is the way to go

[calm shard]

or maintain high stacks in boss fights by clicking their face and dodge sliding to gain stacks

[covert fable]

i just suck without the shout 😂

[magic trout]

Dont worry, play the game and enjoy

[covert fable]

tho i think if im not going full unga bunga dmg i should use a faster helbore

[ember nest]

Whats camoflage doing in the interaction here

[calm shard]

dodge sliding counts as crouch

camouflage gives stacks while crouched

normally you lose a stack from sliding, but that can't happen during the grace period immediately after headshotting something

so you just gain one instead

[hybrid plover]

So you basically have time your shots and dodge slides to keep the stacks going

[calm shard]

you can do either/or really

camouflage just makes it easier to force yourself to high stacks if there aren't many enemies and you NEED the stacks

or if you're in a boss fight where you ordinarily can't gain stacks

[ember nest]

Huh, gotcha

[hollow ibex]

deadshot on helbore

[hybrid plover]

Tbf it does actually benefit Helbore particularly well

[calm shard]

cry about it

[hybrid plover]

Whether it's worth it is a debate in itself but that extra 25% makes it way more consistent for crits.

[calm shard]

every single time I have tried taking deadshot off with the helbore

I run out of ammo on it

Because I am single handedly killing every elite and specialist enemy on the map

and I need deadshot's crit chance to actually keep my ammo going

even with survivalist

in aurics

[hybrid plover]

Okay I do get the logic with using dead shot but like

Everytime I run Helbore even without survivalist, I never run out of ammo

I guess if you really are leaning like

HEAVY on ranged, I guess I can see it though.

[hollow ibex]

i can see that in havoc but aurics?

you get so much damn ammo

[calm shard]

I need MORE

[hybrid plover]

Unrelated but it is so God damn slow at work.

I could be at home killing heretics

[covert fable]

How else will you pay for new veteran skins

[marble mantle]

so true

[hybrid plover]

I get paid either way so 🤷‍♀️

I'm just bored.

[turbid wagon]

Tell me about it I'm here for 10 hours a day with maybe 2 hours worth of work to do

I'm getting paid to just sit and read manga basically

[hollow ibex]

oof weekend work?

i feel ya

[calm shard]

I love seeing the scoreboard for exe vet games just because of the kill count for elites/specialists

[covert fable]

who got 15 kills 😭

[calm shard]

he DCed right at the start

[hybrid plover]

Tbh I get this even with shout with that Helbore smoke build I posted earlier

Did I also mention I love Helbore

[calm shard]

was a laspistol game for me

[hybrid plover]

I tried that same setup with Las pistol but i just can't get behind it

Maybe Im also just getting too accustomed to hot shot making melee feel so much better too

It works wonders on bleed knife builds specifically

[covert fable]

what blessings?

[calm shard]

I should uyse infantry las more but I hate the fuckin' -1 skill point for it

[calm shard]

dum-dum infernus

[covert fable]

ah makes sense

[hybrid plover]

Dum Dum infernus gud

[covert fable]

im going to try a silly power sword + laspistol build

@calm shard is it a bad idea to run deadshot with laspistol?

[hybrid plover]

It would increase its damage in general but understand that deadshot is a risk to use.

[covert fable]

yeah

stamina loss always bad but the dmg is nice

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/kUzwxDpodmwr2ZLg4?invite=cr-MSwxWkcsMzA4NjQyMjU5&v=3

this is only with like dumdum 2 and infernus 2 😭

[hybrid plover]

It only gets better.

[covert fable]

kinda nuts

[hybrid plover]

You wanna see nuts

Try laspistol on gunker.

[covert fable]

why is this little shit so good

gunker?

[hybrid plover]

Gun psyker.

It is extremely good on gun psyker.

Very fun. Very powerful.

Basically makes you invincible against ranged units.

[covert fable]

i might just use the "unga bunga" exe stance build with this gun

[hybrid plover]

It would work.

[calm shard]

highest crit/weakspot damage modifier of any gun in the game iirc

has bad base damage tho

which means it scales very very well with weakspot/finesse/crit damage from talent tree

[hybrid plover]

It's also why it works so well on gunker since it's all about crit and finesse.

[void dragon]

its kinda annoying how consistent is to get quite low damage with the class, even without using stuff like smokes it feels that it cant really keep up in damage compared to others. feels that a Gunker can do better in most cases but peeling.

[hybrid plover]

Honestly, vet has good damage potential. It's just that it requires far more effort than other classes.

That's where it struggles. The skill ceiling is really high for what feels like comparable performance from other classes that dont have to invest as much skill into them.

[tall torrent]

this is nothing

[hybrid plover]

I'm looking at you, arbites and ogryn.

[covert fable]

it gets betterr?

[hybrid plover]

Psyker is just unreasonably powerful but at the cost of being a glass cannon.

[tall torrent]

is 1.3k flak dps supposed to be impressive

[hybrid plover]

Tbf on weakspots it's way more

Maulers are not the greatest enemy to use laspistol on

Because they actively have a counter to laspistol's strength

[icy gulch]

😐

its gaming time

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-nodding-nodding-yes-horse-nodding-silly-gif-5152303604886252799

[icy gulch]

first time playin damnation

lets get this bread

[calm shard]

my honest reaction to this information

[covert fable]

How fast is the ttk?

[calm shard]

uh

less than a second

obviously

[icy gulch]

i cannot stand lasgun sight

its not bad but i wish it came with like a scope or sum

[void dragon]

the thing is that as i said even gunkers feel much more rewarding than Veteran, they are just as much of a glass-jaw but psyker feels more on the cannon side while veteran is like an annoying mosquito

[wheat stratus]

I don't know about that "just as much" part 😂 , all that vet toughness and toughness dmg reduction vs the filmsy psyker

[tall torrent]

veteran's TDR is massively overestimated

[wheat stratus]

maybe, but is it less or more compared to psyker

[tall torrent]

a little more than psyker
but psyker's EE kinda removes a lot of the toughness drain that normally exists
so in the end it doesn't get that much better in practice

it's not as good as zealot, ogryn or arb

[hollow ibex]

No no you don’t get it psyker is a glass cannon 😭

[tall torrent]

not even close

[wheat stratus]

please, EE only becomes relavent on weapons like purge when it procs to a reason degree

[tall torrent]

it's rly more like

[hollow ibex]

I need to make a fucking meme out of this

[hybrid plover]

There's a lot of weapons EE takes advantage of for Psyker.

[tame lodge]

Or the soulblaze+Wall unintended interaction

[wheat stratus]

meta weapons only 2, purge and recon

[tame lodge]

[tall torrent]

psyker gets ~140 (~70 in havoc)
veteran gets ~250 (~163 in havoc)
and then ur looking at 500+ for zealot

and ogryn gets like 800+ sometimes

arb can also get pretty crazy numbers if u take castrated stance

[hollow ibex]

i mean purge is one of THE meta psyker staves

and then there's shit like laspis and IAG as well

and hell even fgs

that can reliably proc EE

[hybrid plover]

Any melee weapon that can get considerable crit chance and swing fast. Infantry auto, laspistol. Surge staff with surge blessing, assail,

[wheat stratus]

that arby's grit talent automatically puts it at the top

[tame lodge]

Vraks5 erasure has been strong lately

[hybrid plover]

Psyker has options

[tame lodge]

How can we dethrone recon

[tall torrent]

so it's like

yea u can say veteran has more toughness than psyker

but it's not so much more that it's on an entirely separate tier

[hybrid plover]

Psyker can attain survivability through a different means

They don't play by the same rules.

[wheat stratus]

only melee weapon that MIGHT apply is the knife, and you'd be memeing swing that thing into a horde, as for staff, surge used to meme because the collatoral hits' crit also counts

[void dragon]

is recon the thing to dethrone? i feel that the recon itself is mid at best, the thing that elevates it is the infernus

[wheat stratus]

but I think they fixed that part

[tall torrent]

no just the avg psyker gameplay doesn't come vaguely close to the concept of "aiming at head"

[void dragon]

oddly it feels that the veteran works kinda like a support, quite fragile but can bring some neat buffs to the team, to the point that i see smokes being quite valuable

[tall torrent]

or "pulling down mouse to control recoil"

[hollow ibex]

huh? anything with crit works

[tall torrent]

u can't blame them

[hybrid plover]

Dueling sword with riposte, force swords with riposte, even force greatsword can have decent upkeep cuz of riposte

[wheat stratus]

whatever unique survivability psyker can achieve, gunker pretty much throwed all that away, that build is just pure yolo

[hybrid plover]

Have you ever tried horde clearing with a knife on gunker

[hollow ibex]

ok that's just skill issues

[wheat stratus]

yes it's shit compared to FGS

[void dragon]

not a fan of that, knife feels like something you would take as movility stick, not for horde clear when you can take Voidblast

[hybrid plover]

This meme about knife not being able to horde clear needs to stop!!!

[hollow ibex]

FGS is one of the weapons with very high EE uptime

[void dragon]

it can horde clear, i just dont like it

[tall torrent]

knife is like

[hybrid plover]

If anything, psyker can legitimately circumvent the one actual problem knife has with hordes because of kinetic deflection.

[tall torrent]

25~30%? worse horde clear than FGS

FGS 15s vs 50 pox
knife 18.7s ish

[void dragon]

FGS can do that 100 pox in 15

[hybrid plover]

That's not even saying a lot since FGS is just on a completely different level compared to anything else in the game honestly

[wheat stratus]

you can say it's skill sure if you can't survive as gunker, but it's nothing to do with skill when talking about objective measurement of survivability comparing gunker vs regular bubble/staff

[tall torrent]

yea warp slash

this is base weapon swinging tho

[void dragon]

why take warp slash when that is something SO valuable for the weapon?

[hollow ibex]

that's funny then because i don't recall gunker losing access to any defensive tools of staffker, except what... shield?

so sounds like a player issue to me

[wheat stratus]

yes, except that tiny thing called bubble, whatever does that have to do with survivability

I do wonder

[hollow ibex]

and it's one of many defensive tools

if you can't live without bubble

that's not a class issue

[void dragon]

not even that, bubble gunker works in the concept that is more utility to remove specialist and other ranged enemies without much crits

if you cant live without bubble you dont deserve bubble

learn to slide

[tall torrent]

it's mid in everything but warp slash lol

[void dragon]

even in Havoc spamming sprint slide save lives

[wheat stratus]

read up, the entire point of argument came from me saying gunker is more yolo than normal meta psykers, not sure what you are talking about now

[hollow ibex]

it's not

and the fact that you think it is just tells me you don't know how to play gunker

[void dragon]

normal meta psyker needs to slide, otherwise they are fools with their less than 6 seconds bubbles

[void dragon]

you use bubble not to turtle around but to ACT

[tame lodge]

Or they are smart enough to plop the shield on top of the ranged enemies

Since that's unironically better

[void dragon]

indeed, and it stops bombers tosses

[hollow ibex]

damn right

[wheat stratus]

you objectively think gaze gives you more survivability than bubble, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact you are coping

[hollow ibex]

are you just intentionally being dense, or is that your normal state?

[hybrid plover]

You know. I was gonna ask how. But then again I'm one of the only nutjobs that would run scrier FGS on Havoc so fair game

[hollow ibex]

since when has gunker and staffker been boiled down to "gaze" and "bubble"

[void dragon]

EE = walk to the gunner army and laught as they cant kill you, slide still so you dont die stupidly

[hollow ibex]

half the time staffker doesn't even run bubble

and you're just purposefully ignoring all the other shit that psyker has

[low oar]

Havoc

[hollow ibex]

in its toolkit

[void dragon]

everyone seems to forget vent is good too

[hollow ibex]

to augment surviviability

which are available for both staffker and gunker

[hybrid plover]

I don't think that's what they're saying. They're more or less implying that gunker can have pretty good survivability compared to what you would call "meta" psyker.

Which it definitely can.

[hollow ibex]

he's just beating up a strawman

[wheat stratus]

yeah half the time psykers don't run bubble in havoc, okay 😂

[tall torrent]

what are u comparing it to

[void dragon]

not by much, psyker still relies on fundamentals to survive, toughness regen aside

[low oar]

Party finder is wild like that

[hybrid plover]

Because it's the option that benefits the team in survivability the most. Not necessarily the psyker themselves.

[void dragon]

kinda like smoke veteran in a way

[tall torrent]

cuz if u compare FGS with actually good weapons like power sword or pickaxe it is miles behind in like every single metric if not for warp slash

[hollow ibex]

and then there's the bubble knight build

which is gunker... except with a fucking bubble

[low oar]

Force great sword has dummy big precision and crit damage
I run it for everything now

[void dragon]

crazy that ppl dont like running that

[hybrid plover]

That's what I mean. Baseline. It isn't the best.

But running it with the means to make it beefy makes it really good for horde clear even without the slash

But that's a very particular setup

[void dragon]

FGS is good to pull its weight, would say its just as powerful as Psword if not better (because if we take the active from FGS why should not meassure it to unempowered Psword?)

[tall torrent]

yea u gotta do all that extra addon to make it come close to those other weapons

and those other weapons can also be juiced further

[wheat stratus]

somebody started this whole line of discussion saying despite psykers been glass on paper it's got unique survival tools
which is true
but then I said a lot of those "unique survival tools" biggest been bubble, and also perma ranging with staff, is ditched on the yolo gunker
somebody's response to that is a nonsensical "skill issue" 😂

[low oar]

Psyker is really unkillable until they're suddenly not

[tame lodge]

Anticipation Propaganda

[wheat stratus]

like listen, nobody said you couldn't make it out as gunker despite the yolo conditions

[tame lodge]

[wheat stratus]

got nothing to do with wtf was talked about

[void dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/fist-of-the-north-star-hokuto-no-ken-hey-as-long-as-it-works-as-long-as-it-works-winging-it-gif-5037582307183355084

[tall torrent]

take example

[hybrid plover]

Anticipation is a meme honestly

[tall torrent]

borovian pickaxe

[low oar]

I stopped using the deimos force sword for single target
Just smack your target in the head with the mark 6 fgs

[hollow ibex]

slight update to the meme

[tall torrent]

borovian with the avg melee ogryn build kills 60k unyielding in 22s

[hollow ibex]

can't forget the stam regen delay

[hybrid plover]

Honestly the stupidest thing about psyker.

[tall torrent]

FGS with all that additional juice doesn't break under 30s most of the time

[void dragon]

to this day i cant believe how bad is the veteran's stamina regen

[hollow ibex]

and then arbi gets it too

for god knows what reason

oh wait

🤑

[tall torrent]

u gotta have like

25 DD + scrier's gaze

and roll crit RNG pretty well

[hybrid plover]

Ez

[tall torrent]

meanwhile vraks 5 will do 3x FGS's boss dps

and 3x its dps vs most elites too

in the same setup

[void dragon]

FGS feels that is build for horde bullying

[tame lodge]

Then Arby's get a worse version

💀

[void dragon]

it is strong for single target but his forte is killing the swarms

[hybrid plover]

They don't even fucking need it.

[tame lodge]

Except it's on your way to a keystone

The alternative is pathing to the sides

[hybrid plover]

Honestly one of the only nodes I will call a proper tax node on arbites

[tall torrent]

which it doesn't even excel in outside of warp slash

like

half ur horde clear comes from assail

[void dragon]

why are you stripping warp slash from it but still call Psword better when we know that without its active it is garbo?

[hybrid plover]

Because the class is already so tanky. As long as you know how to dodge at even a bare minimum level, youre probably fine lmao

[tame lodge]

The alternative is knocking everything on the floor

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-cry-one-piece-mid-mid-piece-one-mid-gif-3938984731501782050

[tall torrent]

because warp slash has a 20 kill "CD" to be good and power sword takes 1 button press to be good

[hybrid plover]

Tbf, there's way more uptime on power sword special than warp slash

[tall torrent]

and even if ur not comparing vs power sword

the normal unactivated relic blade

is still better than FGS without warp slash

[void dragon]

maybe i have grown to its utility with stuff like vent and bolter bleed, but even the stagger from it has been quite useful for me, not to mention a good way to spam to keep on 100 peril

[wheat stratus]

there's no way you just said that 😂 , only way assail clears more is if you actively don't use FGS

[tall torrent]

3 light atks to kill a single bruiser

yea ~half comes from assail's clear itself and the peril generated to give +cleave

[hybrid plover]

They're not wrong though. You do have to beef it up quite a lot for it to start putting in that kinda work.

[low oar]

Why are we bothering comparing unique weapons as if it's apples to apples?

[hybrid plover]

It just scales so far because psyker is a class that scales unreasonably in power compared to any other class.

[void dragon]

wy are we bothered that Paul is still garbo compared to all other stuff?

why we compare entire classes like they are supposed to measure the same

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-for-the-funny-trollface-modern-warfare-3-call-of-duty-call-of-duty-meme-gif-13333631413951346368

[void dragon]

why we put metrics for the sake of "balance"

[void dragon]

this man gets it

[hybrid plover]

I feel like it's gotten more heated than usual today. Saturday must be boring for everyone rn

[void dragon]

im waiting for the 19th, not intended to be too heated tbh so sorry if inconfortable mate

[hybrid plover]

Nah it's cool. I like heated discussion about core game mechanics.

As long as it doesn't devolve into full on name calling and insults, why not?

[tall torrent]

if assail weaving gives u 2x horde clear compared to just swinging the sword
isn't assail half its horde clear lol

idk what's so controversial about it

maybe I just word it in a shockingly confrontational way

[void dragon]

you do that from time to time mate Path

[hybrid plover]

Very, matter of factly attitudes can come across as confrontational tbh

[wheat stratus]

k first all, it's only that flak head bruiser that needs 3 hits, and we are about talking raw hits here without gaze buff

[hybrid plover]

But I've been here enough to know it's not really intended to be confrontational.

[wheat stratus]

as for cleave, both gaze proc'd warp splitting and wrath blessing is enough without relying on assail

assail is mostly reserved for taking out ragers/ranged chaffs

and for the more sweaty weaving for that melee dmg buff

there's not enough of it to go around for pure horde clear on diff above auric

[tall torrent]

oh yea forgot to mention

that 15s was with wrath too

was genuinely pretty surprising when I tested it

[wheat stratus]

it's not confrontational so much as shockingly going against what psyker mains experienced playing gunker all these time

like yes, some specific variation of gunker want to focus more on making the FGS single target, going pure crit blessing with no cleave and using the mk6
in those cases the horde clear of FGS melee goes down
but if you use say mk8, spec cleave, and juicied up on gaze/peril, you'd be mowing down horde of chaffs like it's nothing

[tall torrent]

I did and it's nowhere close to actually good horde clear melee weapons

just straight up not in the same league

warp slash, diff story

[wheat stratus]

I mean compared to what?

assail? maybe if you have infinite of it

[void dragon]

reason why i take warp splitting, it helps the weapon a lot to reach that power while freeing the blessing, not always posible so that make sense

[wheat stratus]

if you are comparing it to other psyker melee, none is better, and it's still a top contender chaff clearing weapon for all weapons on all classes

[tall torrent]

rashad for starters

[calm shard]

yeah not if you don't use warp slash

[tall torrent]

rashad is 2x as fast

[calm shard]

FGS stats are all kinda mid

to compensate for how ridiculous its special is

It has kinda bad cleave, not very good damage, and quite slow swings without using weapon swap tech

[tall torrent]

I'm pretty convinced some people have a very warped (hah) view of what good horde clear melee actually is

[calm shard]

heavy sword my beloved

[hybrid plover]

Tac axe, especially on Gaze since you can actually get to damage levels where BM becomes extremely consistent

[hollow ibex]

Illisi my beloved ❤️

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-and-here-we-go-here-it-goes-gif-15244908

[tall torrent]

illisi is like 1.2s faster than knife

even starting at 97% peril

and spamming special heavy atk

[hollow ibex]

best forcesword!!

[tall torrent]

people actually think psyker has good horde clear melee and it's all so unironic too

even FGS with warp slash, if u start at 0 charge, will take ~9s vs 50 pox

that is still slower than a rashad

[hollow ibex]

is that with or without gaze/dd tho

[tall torrent]

and a little behind power sword VI & III as well

[calm shard]

p sure it's with

it sounds about right from my experience

[tall torrent]

if u gotta have 25 DD + SG to pass a base 10% atk speed rashad

[calm shard]

fastest I've ever gotten a lvl 1 charge from nothing into a horde was like...7 seconds?

Somewhere around there

[hollow ibex]

ig the warp slash has the advantage of having some range ig

[calm shard]

provided the horde was full health

if they're all low it takes like 3 seconds

[wheat stratus]

taxe is actually a strong contender

[calm shard]

but then clearing a horde of enemies that are all below half isn't special is it?

[wheat stratus]

but people here over all are underestimating FGS way to much imo

[tame lodge]

Maybe once they remove the cap

[calm shard]

Brother. I play gun psyker on havoc 40s

[tall torrent]

nah
I'm just being accurate to what it is

[calm shard]

FGS is mediocre statline wise

[tame lodge]

Imagine a world where I can actually damage all the targets hit by the 10.5 cleave taxe

[tall torrent]

it's an overall mid stat melee carried by a broken special attack

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/arcoiris-felicidad-mundofeliz-gif-25768641

[wheat stratus]

relax, I know you do, not talking about you

[tall torrent]

mid stat doesn't mean bad

but there's rly nothing particularly eye catching in any metric

[icy gulch]

so does smoke make melee enemies more dumb, and prevents ranged characters from shooting you?

[tall torrent]

besides warp slash

[hybrid plover]

Essentially, yes

[icy gulch]

OO

[calm shard]

makes ranged enemies dumber and stop shooting you

Worth noting Reapers and Gunners have a bug where they keep shooting despite you being in smoke

[icy gulch]

so i would throw down a smoke and rev a player?

[calm shard]

For some reason if they're walking while shooting they just keep shooting

I have no idea why

[hybrid plover]

That is a good application of it yes

[icy gulch]

i finna cook

[hybrid plover]

They shoot only where they last saw you though.

Just gotta move out of that spot.

[tall torrent]

warp slash super op tho

[hollow ibex]

yeahi think that's how it is

i think it's intentional

i mean it kinda makes sense ig

[tall torrent]

gotta have 4 "no cleave interaction" tools on psyker surely

[hollow ibex]

you have a high rate of fire big capacity weapon, might as well keep spraying

[hybrid plover]

Accuracy by rate of fire.

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/imback-hey-terminator-gatling-gun-gif-13262475

[icy gulch]

im giving in

im making a helbore build

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/training-day-denzel-washington-surgical-with-this-bitch-gif-18351212162010567550

[icy gulch]

its not

its not going good

[hollow ibex]

helbore isn't the easiest to play even after the buffs

[icy gulch]

its just uhh

we always moving, and its not exactly ideal

its just errr... noe

[tame lodge]

Huh

Oh you mean

Marksman Focus?

Just hit heads lol

https://tenor.com/view/happy-beach-steam-emoji-sunset-gif-3837748048620888892

[void dragon]

From the makers of cookie clicker: Head clicker - Warhammer 40000

[calm shard]

yeah

[icy gulch]

i just like being able to move while clickin on heads ;-;

[unreal nova]

To be fair, fps are just more active clicker games, yes?

[icy gulch]

i believe the old saying is.... skill issue?

[void dragon]

Just like Sekiro is a rhythm game, yes

[wicked epoch]

is there a way to make my for the drip show in the armory and the pre game/post game cutscenes

[hollow ibex]

Be gross and use the third person mod

[wicked epoch]

Bastard

[hollow ibex]

Oh wait you’re talking about modded cosmetics

Then no

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-gif-3836540956679717108

[hybrid plover]

god havoc 20s are just

a treat

a real treat

[thorn radish]

im not going to lie, vet feels like ass in current game environment

[hybrid plover]

vet requires a particular finesse to get 1/3rd of the results that arby and ogryn can

very balanced game

[thorn radish]

how come zealot is more effective with bolter than a class focus on ranged

[hybrid plover]

okay that's a bold statement there

bolter is 100% better on vet. zealot can just kinda cheat the draw time and that's really it

[thorn radish]

i mean, you can just dodge to gain more crit damage /weakspot damage and less recoil

[midnight wyvern]

huh

[tall torrent]

2 things here
Boltgun is much better on veteran than zealot
And veteran has not been a ranged class for almost 2y now

[thorn radish]

and build in high crit with piety

[hybrid plover]

okay i see what you mean with the dance talent on zealot

but even then, it's still better on vet

way more burst damage potential depending on how you build

[thorn radish]

generally i think a lot of problem lies within keystones

[midnight wyvern]

you can 100-0 a plague ogryn with a magazine and marksman stance on vet

is that useful? no

is it funny? yes

[tall torrent]

It is useful

[thorn radish]

indeed it is

[hybrid plover]

being able to tear a pogryn in two in a single mag is nothing to scoff at tbh

[midnight wyvern]

better to do most of the healthbar while using VoC Imo

safer for yourself

plus gold for the blueberries

also waking up and killing daemonhosts with bolter will never get old, they just become a non issue you don't need to care about avoiding

they don't even get to attack

[tall torrent]

Nah boltgun is almost always just better with exe stance

[thorn radish]

also they need to rework the god damned marksman focus

[midnight wyvern]

I'd like to see and use a build around it

[hybrid plover]

they need to rework the entire class

[thorn radish]

it required you stand still

[hybrid plover]

they're already aware

[thorn radish]

IN A TIDE GAME

[hybrid plover]

it's just a matter of when they'll do it

i know that zealot's getting their rework first though

[tall torrent]

No official word

[mortal aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

https://tenor.com/view/impossible-star-wars-mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-gif-5440327

[midnight wyvern]

if it is vet first I won't argue but I don't think its deserving over zealot

if its psyker though

[hybrid plover]

just a hunch because zealot is desperately in need of it

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-laughing-cat-laughing-hah-hahahahh-gif-6287389218724353685

[hybrid plover]

build variety is horrendous on zealot

[hollow ibex]

ended up in a random duo with a pubby

[midnight wyvern]

variety?

[hybrid plover]

and it has the oldest tree

[hollow ibex]

so close 😭

he left before i could even say nt

[hybrid plover]

this is so sad

[hollow ibex]

i wasn't bothered too much but poor guy

[tall torrent]

Who knows

FatShark could rework psyker before both

[thorn radish]

there's like two maybe three that's decent

[hybrid plover]

I will go up to their office and cry very loudly if they rework psyker before zealot or vet

psyker might have some minor issues with the tree but holy shit it's not nearly as bad as zealot or vet

[thorn radish]

psyker is fine thou
but toughness on them definitely need some love

[tall torrent]

“Minor issues” when its fundamental design is off

Psyker has the most number of fundamental design issues

[hybrid plover]

i mean that's not to do with the tree more than that it's just a fundamentally busted class as a whole

and i dont think they're really going fix that

[tall torrent]

Nah the tree itself has problems

It is both

[thorn radish]

just dont touch the key stones kek

[hybrid plover]

i think the tree itself is a minor problem. the class in itself is the major problem imho

[tall torrent]

It’s easy to overlook psyker’s design issues because they’re op

But they have big issues

[woven oak]

Having issues is requisite to playing Psyker.

[tall torrent]

Yea I mean
It’s kinda telling with how all psyker exclusive melee weapons behave

Except FGS

[woven oak]

I was making a joke, but I do want to hear you elaborate.

[tall torrent]

The person behind FGS’s design is either on peak autism or meth

What kind of person makes a weapon’s best horde combo swap twice + light twice

[tall torrent]

Did u play rogue trader (video game)

[woven oak]

I have it, haven't started yet

[woven oak]

Someone who doesn't realize that's the optimal combo, I imagine

[thorn radish]

FGS is peak
regular FS mark is either bottom tier or busted (deimos)

[hybrid plover]

there's three force swords

illisi is just

[tall torrent]

Ok basically there’re 2 psyker companions u can naturally come across

One is a sanctioned psyker
One is an unsanctioned psyker

[hybrid plover]

i dont know what to even say about illisi

[woven oak]

Illisi got its head shoved in the dirt by FGS.

[tall torrent]

And the way they interact with psychic abilities is drastically different even when you don’t consider their normal roles

[hybrid plover]

deimos is okay but the special locks you in place and that's bad

[tall torrent]

In DT what you could do is

[woven oak]

Do not the special on Deimos

[thorn radish]

man you dont even need to do special

[woven oak]

Deimos is an H2 stick

[hybrid plover]

obscurus has the weirdest fucking moveset i have seen in this game so far

[woven oak]

Obscurus is incredible

[thorn radish]

this

[woven oak]

Obscurus has amazing damage output and range

[hybrid plover]

and yeah it potentially also has the strongest output

[spice shard]

Nvm ignore me
Forgot navigators and psykers are different

[tall torrent]

Have low peril (<50%) be on the sanctioned side where it’s more focused on sustain, defence which a lot of people have voiced complaints that psyker is too squishy

[hybrid plover]

i never do

[tall torrent]

Have high peril (>50%) be on the unstable part where you tap into ludicrous damage bonuses but weaken your own defences as a result

[woven oak]

A veteran main in an H40 the other day was chastising me, while he was dead, for not using Deimos special on Ragers. =|

[hybrid plover]

you mean

[tall torrent]

This gives u a clear contrast between the 2 types of psykers that usually are used by the imperium

[hybrid plover]

the one that will outright get you killed

[tall torrent]

And you can put in talents that support both styles of play

Where one can choose to focus on low or high peril

[hybrid plover]

i mean i guess that vet has never used the deimos

[woven oak]

We did not win.

[tall torrent]

Instead of the current “I edge 24/7 to the goon god” metagaming strategy with psyker

Which is just incredibly boring

[hybrid plover]

okay wait what is this scorebaord

what the hell was happening this game

holy cow

[woven oak]

Sounds like you're recommending reworking the Psyker tree so, like left side is low peril, right side is high peril, middle is whatever else?

To oversimplify

[woven oak]

Ovenproof plugin

[thorn radish]

oh, did they change obscurus move or something

[hybrid plover]

No I mean what the hell were your teammates doing

[thorn radish]

hmm, before its like weird

[woven oak]

Obscurus got buffed a few patches ago. Maybe when Taxe got buffed.

[thorn radish]

weird weird

[hybrid plover]

they did update obscurus

buffed it

gave it a new move

[tall torrent]

Not necessarily

More like
Sprinkle in talents that go towards a specific peril portion across the entire tree that by the end of a build u have a genuine subplot going on that decides whether you’re significantly better at low or high peril, or you’re hybrid and use both well but don’t fully tap into either

[hybrid plover]

yeah because as it stands, there is objectively no actual reason to be low peril

[tall torrent]

Like

By crack of bone is good

[thorn radish]

might try it later tonight

[tall torrent]

But it’s very counter to psyker’s metagaming strategy

Because if u kill too well u will literally kill the peril out of u

[woven oak]

I do like the idea. Though it seems like high peril would probably be weighted toward being better, since you have more risk of Perils of the Warp

[tall torrent]

Same goes for the non-warp crit ranged atk reduce peril talent

[hybrid plover]

i said it one time and i'll say it again

[tall torrent]

Nah give high peril actual downsides but make the damage bonuses even higher

I mean real consequential downsides

[woven oak]

My dearest wish is for Perils of the Warp to become an Ogryn bomb. Give it friendly fire, make it throw allies like barrels, whatever. But I want to do my +3 wound curio/crystalline will suicide psyker.

[hybrid plover]

by crack of bone should have been a scrier sub node as it stands, with the specific caveat that it stops when scrier's runs out

[tall torrent]

Smth like
x1.3 damage taken but u get +15% crit chance at >50% peril

[thorn radish]

or more toughness regen but more damage taken

[tall torrent]

And have One With The Warp scale higher at lower peril but decrease as peril goes up

[hybrid plover]

because i can't actually justify using by crack of bone because your damage plummets when gaze isn't active and there's no other ability that actually has any synergy with the node

its dumb

[woven oak]

OwtW is not very good in Havoc. :<

[tall torrent]

I know

But it can be an interesting choice if it’s high enough TDR and sustainable

And again psyker’s durability issue needs to be addressed

[woven oak]

But if Psyker is more durable, then I can't gatekeep as effectively. You'd invite new players into the class. Heresy.

[tall torrent]

I think psyker’s highest damage builds need to have lower defence than they currently do

[thorn radish]

yeah, sometime two small smack and youre goner

[tall torrent]

And psyker’s melee/gun builds need to have better defence than they currently do

And these need to be built on top of a massively neutered version of empathic evasion

[hybrid plover]

going to town on a small country's population of heretics

until a single rager comes up from behind you

[thorn radish]

yeah there's not much way to regen high enough toughness to sustain in melees

[hybrid plover]

it's not necessarily toughness regen that's the issue

[thorn radish]

but being able to kill crusher in 3 light tac axe is funny enough i'll keep playing it

[hybrid plover]

psyker's base tdr is horrible and even if you get the nodes to beef it up, it helps only so much when what that percentage is piggybacking off of isn't a high value to begin with

[tall torrent]

More durable only under specific conditions

I also think staves need to be nerfed a lot overall

Soulblaze needs major nerfs

[thorn radish]

nah blaze is fine

[hybrid plover]

absolutely not

soulblaze is probably one of the most broken things in this entire game

[tall torrent]

VB’s stagger needs to be lower (scales down massively away from blast center) and completely unable to stagger ogryns

[thorn radish]

[tall torrent]

Inferno attack speed nerf

[thorn radish]

shhh

[hybrid plover]

i am tired

[tall torrent]

Since giving it cleave mechanic prob will play very weird

[hybrid plover]

of the inferno staff meta honestly

[tall torrent]

Imagine a world where psyker has to aim to do damage

[hybrid plover]

imagine a world where a psyker can use something that allows you to actually see to do damage

[thorn radish]

good thing that im not playing inferno that much anyways

[woven oak]

I play Psyker because I have shaky hands and aiming is actually super hard for me

[tall torrent]

That’s ok EK still exists

I wish EK wasn’t a soulblaze staff

[thorn radish]

ek is a left click machine

[tall torrent]

EK is an autism macro machine

[thorn radish]

left click build is so strong i can stand in front of 20 gunner and click them in the head 1 by 1

[tall torrent]

I think smth is very seriously wrong when its highest group dps option is to swap cancel every single charged attack to spam

Like who designed this

[thorn radish]

man i dont even use ek's charge attack that much, but i agree that it's ass

[woven oak]

My opinion on these things, in less detail than you, is that I feel like Psyker should lean into the role as glass cannon. Especially as compared with Ogryn or Arbiter, they should be squishy and do super high damage, but probably have to make choices to give up damage in order to get more utility. I like Soulblaze as a mechanic, and I don't mind that it can snowball into absurdity. I have concerns that a lot of the suggestions around Psyker changes will neuter their ability to do damage without making them able to survive in any meaningful way. Already Arbiter and Ogryn, if they're good, can pretty consistently outdamage a bubble Inferno psyker, and I have had some get close when I play Shriek Psyker.

[thorn radish]

yeah currently psyker and survive just enough by killing everything so fast

[tall torrent]

I actually wouldn’t mind if psyker did more damage than they currently did if they fully spec’d into high peril, given that playing at high peril will have actual defensive downsides that make the player significantly less durable

[hollow ibex]

not bad for a shovel run

tfw the shovel outdamages bully club and arbi maul lmfao

[thorn radish]

if they're tweaking the damamge , they outta fix the survivability in some way

[tall torrent]

But as it stands psyker is playing like half the game while not having massively overtuned talents and tools that trivialize everything

[woven oak]

Right now most of that durability comes from toughness regen in hordes, from Soulstealer and Mettle (since mettle now gives toughness on every enemy hit, not just one per attack). I would be fine with giving some of that up if Quietude sucked less.

I am a certified Quietude hater.

[hollow ibex]

[tall torrent]

U should play rogue trader and see how unsanctioned vs sanctioned differ in their vibe it’s very directly noticeable

[hybrid plover]

https://gyazo.com/36eb7540846ee6fdb981007e53d8e8a8

i was playing a havoc 21 and tried mk3 with that build i posted earlier

mk3 knife

[tall torrent]

I want low peril to mimic that sanctioned stable psyker vibe

And high peril to mimic the unstable but super overpowered psyker vibe

[hybrid plover]

ongo was a purge psyker and law was a lone wolf arby lol

[hollow ibex]

that scoreboard looks way too clean lol

[hybrid plover]

it's a vermintide board plugin

[midnight wyvern]

its just so simple haha

[hybrid plover]

that team was

[woven oak]

Look, compared with other classes' non-kill toughness regen nodes, it's garbage. With my build, it's 4.5 toughness per tick, give or take. A Shriek is like 23 toughness.

[midnight wyvern]

@tall torrent do you have a build using bolter/exe stance you could show?

[hybrid plover]

everytime the psyker went down, it was because they blew themselves up

[tall torrent]

This “edge to goon god” thing psyker has going on rn is just so uninteresting

[tall torrent]

Ya

[hybrid plover]

the lower damage one was a chorus zealot and they both went down

and died

me and arbites

[hollow ibex]

the main thing is it's toughness on demand, and also when ulting on 2 of the abilities

for that, good utility

[hybrid plover]

arbites runs for a fucking ritual when we weren't ready for it

[hollow ibex]

i don't always take it tho

[woven oak]

It's very bad toughness on demand.

[hollow ibex]

eh wouldn't say that considering that it allows you to regain toughness out of warp farts

im not a big quietude user myself anywa

[tall torrent]

nah it's not much

it basically only "matters" for auric or lower in last player standing

in havoc u will just die

[woven oak]

Ogryn's passive toughness is like 12.5%/s while aiming their gun. =|

[hollow ibex]

oh idk/idc about havoc

[tall torrent]

if anything psyker usually first or second to die

[hollow ibex]

ogryn is fucking stupid

ogryn exists so people can't claim arbi is p2w

[midnight wyvern]

[woven oak]

Veteran is 5%/s for not being targeted with a melee attack.

Zealot is 15% for dodging

[tall torrent]

block a single rager combo hit and u can kiss it goodbye

[hollow ibex]

yeah except a lot of builds can't fit that in

and when you need it the most, it'll be off

[woven oak]

I have not actually seen a single H40 veteran build without it

[hollow ibex]

i'm guessing because they're all pathing to survivalist

[tall torrent]

it's just not "predictably reliable"

[woven oak]

Arbiter gets toughness for existing, ha. Not even gonna include them

[hybrid plover]

arbites

unironically

[hollow ibex]

yeah arbi doesn't need to be discussed

[hybrid plover]

gets toughness

FOR BREATHING HEAVILY

[woven oak]

Veteran is also, I think, probably not the class to balance against right now

[hybrid plover]

NOT EVEN JOKING WHY IS THAT A THING

[woven oak]

Veteran needs help

[tall torrent]

veteran needs >4 pages of talent changes, mostly buffs

[thorn radish]

arbite is like
breath
gets 50% toughness back

[woven oak]

In my experience, I am the last person alive desperately trying to find space to attack, then dying alone.

[tall torrent]

depends on what mistakes the team makes

[woven oak]

What are you talking about.

[hybrid plover]

I hate it

IT'S SO DUMB

[thorn radish]

in my own experience, once im down as psyker ,team just overrun by elite hordes most of the time

[thorn radish]

three attack and some stamina and you got half toughness back

[woven oak]

217 out of like 260 once the toughness over time ended.

[woven oak]

I mean, this is my average H40 loss.

[midnight wyvern]

lol, 6k per headshot on a Plogryn

10 rounds

[tall torrent]

shield ogryn in 2025 is crazy

[woven oak]

Or this.

[hybrid plover]

again i truly need to know what was happening this game

[thorn radish]

have you seen the yee haw build

[woven oak]

I will stop now.

[woven oak]

While the veteran was down, he was critiquing my play.

[tame lodge]

Heeeeey

[tall torrent]

boltgun veteran with <30k ranged dmg is crazy

[wheat stratus]

@tall torrent you know what, you are right, tried gunker out in 40, assail kills more than FGS, nobody wants to engage these things at melee if one can help it

[tame lodge]

Blight

[tall torrent]

glad we could reach a consensus

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/rayleigh-one-piece-crying-gif-7583256620608062087

[tall torrent]

also if I wanted to gaslight u I wouldn't be saying FGS horde clear is bad (cuz it rly is just middle of the pack)
I'd be telling u illisi was good

[wheat stratus]

let me just ask you one thing though, when you guys look through all that stats, does weapon range come into play? because I don't see that stats displayed in inspect, and unless I'm seeing things the long range of fgs allows it go cleave more things per swing

[midnight wyvern]

can't kill in a mag

bad

[woven oak]

You had to reload? Pathetic.

[tall torrent]

most weapons' reach are not that different
FGS and relic blade notably have more reach than most weapons
however this is not "so much more" reach that it ends up cleaving that much more stuff
this is mainly because neither get particularly high cleave
FGS with max wrath IV + 100% peril warp splitting gets like just 32 cleave on the heavy sweep attack
which is enough to go through 3 maulers and stop at a 4th, and this is an extreme scenario so most of the time ur stopping at the 3rd (not max wrath and/or not max peril)
compare this with a weapon that actually has high cleave, power sword VI with sunder
which gets to cleave through 4 maulers, not have the cleave be stopped by carapace (hence all weakspot hits for max dmg), and stop at a 5th mauler

[hollow ibex]

i like how a single crit shot here does more damage to the boss than a tinkered krak nade

[thorn radish]

idc, plus you get to fan the gun
that's a win for me

[tall torrent]

most of the time the "extra reach" comes into play with distance vs ragers
where u get to hit them before they can hit u

this is however, not that relevant for FGS, ironically, because FGS's high dmg single target attacks don't stagger ragers out of their combo
unlike relic sword's activated heavy sweeps which can

[wheat stratus]

I'm not talking about cleaving through armor or reaching ragers, I'm talking about allowing it to hit more chaffs per swing when clearing horde

[tall torrent]

yes, usually doesn't matter that much because in havoc hordes have high enough mass that ur max wrath + max warp splitting FGS only gets to hit 8 poxwalkers

and ur prob gonna hit smth that drains a lot of cleave before that when u actually pull ur sword out

ex: mauler (10 mass), scab rager (10 mass)

u could get all ur cleave used up earlier in the attack because u hit smth a little further due to having more reach

[wheat stratus]

hmmm, anyways it is interesting, but doesn't really come into play even if it is good, assail and the warp slice takes most of the clear load gameplay wise

[tall torrent]

ya

[thorn radish]

ngl brutal momentum would go hard on GS in general
it's a shame it'd be busted

[tall torrent]

nah

not enough first target dmg

on relic blade yea

u actually do a lot of dmg

on FGS nah

BM falls off a lot when u take more than 2 hits to kill the enemy

[thorn radish]

have you tried DD and scrier on FSG

[tall torrent]

I play it with 25 DD and scrier

it is not enough first target dmg to matter for BM

unless ur strat is to exclusively use stab/overhead vs every horde

in which case neither DD nor scrier matter

[thorn radish]

hm, wouldnt the amount of dmg provide by dd and scrier enough ?
i thought that that'd be enough 😮

[tall torrent]

no u take like 3 light sweep hits to kill a single dreg bruiser

and vs pure horde (groaner, poxwalker) u swing in diagonal with no weakspot priority

so it doesn't benefit off BM as well as combat axe, even tho u can use DD + scrier to juice dmg up

BM is at its best when u can 1 hit everything up to h40 armored groaner

which is the best possible "pure horde" clear in the game

[keen wharf]

I love the melee only AM roll, nade spam still hilarious.

[hybrid plover]

play h40

doing incredibly well

teammates hit a barrel that knocks me off the map

i want to cry

[hybrid plover]

https://gyazo.com/f81bda99459c836839cc1c204f35776f

other than an unfortunate barrel and a trapper who's a follower of tzeentch, i am pleased that the funny knife helbore smoke build does in fact slap in h40

i honestly cant even blame them. i should have known there would be a barrel there and shit got really hectic

funny thing is that i could have 100% gotten way more boss dmg but basically being a specialist's worst nightmare seemed more fiitting

[covert fable]

I like to put my builds around specialists mostly but then idk if my team mates can do boss dmg - always worrying

[steep flower]

its a nice quick responce dps gun vs unyielding primarily; its nice but banking on being great boss dps is a no; simply due to factors like random crit chance, pressure, constant movement ect

but i like to take a fan revolver on primarily melee classes that melee does not do that well vs unyielding

[steep flower]

dat dmg taken as zel

console

FIGURES

[compact plume]

How do I Guard? I played vet since the beta until the Arbitrator got released and I've just come back now and I am shockingly bad.

[steep flower]

Guard as in?

[compact plume]

That part was a joke as in imperial guardsman

[calm shard]

Veteran has been nerfed (and obviously reworked) since then

They are generally accepted to be the weakest of the 5 classes

[compact plume]

Ouch

[steep flower]

generally
after all vet skill tree can be bricked the most when making a build & ppl are not the smartest on average in this game tbh

[south spindle]

On the plus side, if you can clear on Vet, you can clear on any other class

[calm shard]

No Zealot can brick their skill tree far worse than vet

[steep flower]

cuase zel has 'the build'

[south spindle]

Middle middle tree moment

[steep flower]

[karmic moat]

Damn, bayonet still thankfully stab good

[tame lodge]

Step 1 get precision strikes
Step 2 get Desperado
Step 3 hit heads
Step 4 dodge
Step 5??????
Step 6 profit

https://tenor.com/view/shrimp-as-that-clash-royale-hee-hee-hee-haw-gif-25054781

Bonus step

[steep flower]

Desperado not always needed but... Precision strikes... ALWAYS

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/reach-halo-dogtags-remember-gif-27077445

[unreal nova]

Shush.

[covert fable]

is it true that melee weapons that have uncanny increase the effectiveness of bleed against armored targets?

like if i were to have uncanny on my melee and for example flechette on my db, the bleed would be better?

[azure narwhal]

Should do so yeah. Been a while since i've done this but the same happens with soulblaze on psyker so...

[covert fable]

ah

[azure narwhal]

You could do the funny, chug frags, inject combat stim, spam lights on their heads and profit from bleed. You can out dps kraks with this, shredding through carapace (admittedly this is hella specific)

[covert fable]

that sounds illy

ill test t

it

[azure narwhal]

Yehh

Thats the thing i like about veteran

You don't have to care about resources much

Plenty o ammo

Nades for days

[covert fable]

yeah

[azure narwhal]

Anyways yeah

You can pull this off with psyker purg staff too, it gets pretty mad

[unreal nova]

Less stress, but then uber paper. XD

[azure narwhal]

Yeaa

[unreal nova]

So stress again.

[azure narwhal]

Thank god we got shout! (It bothers me that the sharpshooter class has a support ability as his stupidly most powerful one)

Maaan

[unreal nova]

Is funni, but am okay.

[azure narwhal]

Pulling a literal "muh class identity" here but how i wish the other two were reworked to hell

[unreal nova]

After all...

[azure narwhal]

Maybe soon

[unreal nova]

Am "Commissar", yes.

[azure narwhal]

Yes, sah

[unreal nova]

'Nades for all, heh.

[covert fable]

i played ogryn yesterday and was like, why are my nades not regenerating 😂

[unreal nova]

Not mortis.

[covert fable]

what is mortis?

[unreal nova]

Mortis Trials?

[covert fable]

ah

[unreal nova]

Thing you access from Sefoni.

There's a major perk that grants 20 sec 'nade regen.

[covert fable]

Ahh

[unreal nova]

Luck though.

[steep flower]

its just finnicy to apply in practice

[covert fable]

How does it work

I don't need the melee equipped right

[steep flower]

yup; either apply the bleed first & stack uncanny or vice versa
if its low amount of bleed you start with uncanny
if its high amount of bleed you start with bleed application

[covert fable]

That does sound finicky

[unreal nova]

Or do both at same time with serrated. Flees.

[steep flower]

mini ogryn

[unreal nova]

Nu, that's Arby stagger.

Bully them Nurglites.

[tame lodge]

@tall torrent got the funny sword from Heretical

Is it the only 2h force sword in the game?

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[olive halo]

bros, what do I put on my shovel

its the mk7

[half glade]

How does bolt pistol's Lethal Proximity bless work now? Does it still give +25% blast radius to vet's frags?

[calm shard]

yeah

+25% blast radius to all explosions

[half glade]

Do you need to wield it when frags are out for the effect to work? Like, if I'm on melee weapon and switch to frags, throw them, I'm automatically switched back to melee - do I need to make sure I'm going to frags from the Pistol all the time, instead, or something?

[calm shard]

no

lethal proximity is always active

[half glade]

sweet, thanks

[ember nest]

did you hit them so hard you died

[tame lodge]

This Blade has a guaranteed perils of the Warp on successful attacks at 20 veil degradation

I basically rolled Perils of the Warp

Which is basically instakill

As the only member on the party

So game over

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

It could've been Untamed Power, Warp Blast, Daemonic Attention

Perils of the warp

Rebound

[hybrid plover]

Anything that is not mk1 is deci + skullcrusher

[tame lodge]

The Earth Protests

[hybrid plover]

Perks are honestly whatever you feel works. Just understand that unyielding is not the shovel's forte

[olive halo]

thanks, matching name too

[unreal nova]

Actually... you can use that for MK1 as well.

If you just want a horde clear and CC stick.

[final crystal]

(poke)

[patent birch]

best lasgun?

[tame lodge]

2b

Just avoid the 9

9?

Yeah 9

[patent birch]

im using the heavy one rn

its not optimized

is this vet guide in pins up to date

flakiac infernus headhunter?

[gilded wraith]

That doesn't sound up to date. I don't think Path recommends headhunter. Is it the word document?

[tropic notch]

Word doc is out of date

@ him and he will give you the steam guide

[narrow frost]

one sec

mk9

[broken reef]

why are these seperate

[narrow frost]

[broken reef]

understandable

second question, whats the optimal build for crit recon lasgun hose bs

[narrow frost]

assuming vet

of yeah

[broken reef]

ofc

[narrow frost]

vet chat

one sec

[broken reef]

do other 2 even use lasguns

opposed to just a bolter

[narrow frost]

yes

3 human classes have las

zel vet have bolter

arby only bolter no las

2 points

this is what I use

I only use gun on elites and specials

las weapon should never be used on horde

get melee kills to proc WS

oh wait

30 points

this is what I use

[tame lodge]

Yeah but iLas basically puts you at dedicated marksman wannabe role
Which isn't really something zealot tries to be
Although having some funny interactions

And gunker usually prefers high dps guns over ilas

[heavy rover]

if you'll be leaning into dedicated marksman, you might as well use helbore lasgun

[hybrid solstice]

what mk for shock maul i should take?
blessings etc

[covert fable]

Skullcrusher + hammerblow is REALLY good

I think they are both good?

I might be wring but the la one has better single target damage?

And the other one better horde clear ? Idk

[hybrid solstice]

and flak/unyielding or carapace?

[covert fable]

I think flak maniac?

Maniac for sure but I'm not sure about flak, memory fuzzy

My fav weapon

[hybrid solstice]

Thanks, i can't nothing about shock maul in the pins so im asking

[covert fable]

Wait

There's a "hammer of the emporer" guide link

It has info about the shockmaul there, better than I can provide for sure

[hybrid solstice]

Ah i see now, thanks again sah

[covert fable]

https://tenor.com/view/coyle-leland-coyle-coyle-outlast-trials-outlast-trials-sergeant-coyle-gif-10324386178860598942

[olive halo]

bros, do I run toughness regen speed or nah

[narrow frost]

never

[mortal aspen]

so you can stack them and achieve absolute purity

[narrow frost]

it only affects coherency regen speed

[olive halo]

aight, gotcha

then ima just go w/ 3x CDR, 3x toughness, 3x gunner res

[calm shard]

gunner res stacks multiplicatively

20-32-40

[olive halo]

wasnt it 20, 35, 49?

I haven't got a better idea to replace it with though

if only I could do 9x toughness

[broken reef]

okay so something came up and i had to leave but why would you not use the recon las gun to just sweep a incovenient flanking horde in one sweeping motion when your team is fighting the frontline? hell isnt there a talent that gives you 10% ranged crit chance for a portion of a fresh mag so you ideally just reload with the 25% faster reload talent to keep that up over using WS

[calm shard]

the highly unusual Mk XIV Recon Lasgun

[fluid shadow]

Might someone be able to supply a H40 plasma vet (preferably with kraks for the notorious armor crowds)

[orchid hemlock]

What

[broken reef]

why is it a bad idea to mow the horde with a mk XII spray

[narrow frost]

Every melee weapon clears horde faster then any las weapon, 100% a waste of bullets.

[fluid shadow]

Chainaxe hitting 1 enemy then stopping immediately:

[orchid hemlock]

Because the only range options in the game that are actually good at horde clear are Psyker weapons and the Flamer

[narrow frost]

huh

[calm shard]

have you tried using the attacks with cleave

instead of using the ones that don't

[fluid shadow]

Ik

[narrow frost]

mk3 has cleaving heavies while the other has cleaving lights iirc

[calm shard]

Mk4 but yes

[narrow frost]

ye

[fluid shadow]

I have like 400 hours on this game with 2000 on vermintide

[calm shard]

Nobody asked

[fluid shadow]

Ok witch

[tropic notch]

But this is darktide not vermintide

https://tenor.com/view/cat-headphones-jam-catjam-bop-gif-7100999673437361307

[fluid shadow]

As if it doesnt contribute to any gamesense in dt

[tropic notch]

Have you tried using headtaker and slaughter to increase your damage, cleave, and impact?

[fluid shadow]

I asked for a plasma vet build for 40s

[hybrid solstice]

I asked, Darling

And still don't care

[broken reef]

i am rocking this, once i reach 30 im goin for the lexhead before starting aurics n all that jazz

[fluid shadow]

Brother its a joke i know how shit works

[calm shard]

But DO YOU KNOW that the chainaxe has a hard cleave damage cap of 4?

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/edna-mode-the-incredibles-clapping-gif-7312253122529390565

[calm shard]

Can't ever damage more than 4 enemies

[calm shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779424458238459946/1380895902260269076/tenor_70.gif

[tropic notch]

But do you listen to this

[tropic notch]

What the scallop

[fluid shadow]

I play the game and test how things work

[fluid shadow]

If i like it i use it

[sonic kayak]

This is genuinely funny

[covert fable]

Dog is very distracting

[calm shard]

anyways absolute basic H40 vet build @fluid shadow

can swap FT for weapon specialist

[tropic notch]

Where one motion and out for blood

And no friggin ws

[broken reef]

i remember people mentioning vet capstones are optional and figured this is way better than crab walking with MF or compulsively swapping weapons to maximize WS

[tropic notch]

Naw what

[calm shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220146816612302932/1276594914725200053/a_654711e3dd0c785a7b098a5d23fdaf4b.gif

[broken reef]

i may be remembering ancient ass info though

[tropic notch]

Anyone who says that is probably doing a recon meme

[calm shard]

vet keystones are optional

[hybrid plover]

You can go capstoneless

[calm shard]

but like

FT is the "I don't want a keystone" keystone

[hybrid plover]

But realistically you're better off with a keystone

[calm shard]

just free damage for the whole squad

WS is more playstyle defining but it's really good

[sonic kayak]

Battlefield RP

[calm shard]

MMF is for weirdos and whackjobs

[sonic kayak]

Spot and get a bonus

[tropic notch]

@fluid shadow my vet havoc build

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d51275b-f9c4-4494-9b88-bfafbbbf4981/terrible-vet-build

[broken reef]

idk man nuking a quarter of the effective hp of something by pressing one button seems like a really good option

[tropic notch]

Dueling sword is so overrated and it sucks

Watched a vet kite for 20 minutes in a havoc one time with it

[hybrid solstice]

Funny i use almost same build
and it's only one build i don't suck as vet

[broken reef]

i put off using duelling sword for so long cause i like using wacky shit so it took me 30'ing the 3 other classes before deciding to use the op stuff on vet, only for it to be finally nerfed and be balanced when i get to it

[tropic notch]

Speaking of havoc Everytime I die is due to a trapper or mutants

[sonic kayak]

Only a good vet can make a terrible build

[tropic notch]

Did a havoc yesterday with Arby crusher and got netted and instakilled me and the oggy were the only ones doing anything

[broken reef]

now, the emperor did hand me this, would you guys reckon this is better than the mk 4 ds

[tropic notch]

Had a book zealot with a knife that had rending backstab and ripoest, vet was running ds and plasma

[primal zealot]

excuse me wtf is ur name

[broken reef]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[hybrid solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-gif-1760452691448589843

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-getting-out-of-hand-now-there-are-two-star-wars-viceroy-jedi-gif-11488909

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-pow-face-gif-21573152

[hybrid solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-bnuuy-steals-your-bunny-steals-your-bnuuy-gif-26209043

[primal zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/only-one-there-can-only-be-one-funny-car-mean-cat-cat-attack-gif-12213614

[primal zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/bnuy-bunny-bnuuy-gif-26529152

[broken reef]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-luality-lua-steal-bnuy-gif-6223806457434282985

my turn

https://tenor.com/view/boo-luality-lua-steal-bnuy-gif-7204936554692668174

[hybrid plover]

since we're sharing h40 builds https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9fa86d35-de92-4be6-bc0a-76a4005860f0/smoke-skirmisher-2?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[covert fable]

https://tenor.com/view/bnuuy-bunny-shitpost-rabbit-mm-yees-bnuuy-gif-7970488282837678817

[broken reef]

bunny ears for vet when

[hybrid solstice]

Why you choose the stamina regeneration boost and not something else like on your toes?

[hybrid plover]

it's more consistent across the board

[covert fable]

It's good for vet

[hybrid plover]

especially with something like power sword that rides or dies by the block attack

[tropic notch]

More consistent like on bosses where I can’t proc ws

Plus the ps is push attack reliant

[covert fable]

I think vet has like lower stam regen delay by default?

I'm not sure, but it helps a lot

[hybrid plover]

slowest regen delay in the game

[covert fable]

Yep

[hybrid plover]

for some fucking reason???

[sonic kayak]

asbestos

[tropic notch]

Yeah I hate it

[sonic kayak]

mesothelioma