Shout, shoot once, maybe twice and do a bit more damage. Wowie.
#veteran-class
past stratus
narrow widget
sounds a little like heresy here 
tall torrent
Actually I just remembered
tame lodge
Free cdr
hybrid plover
At least its still decent enough damage along with everything else to consider using
calm shard
damage juicing my helbore IV and nuking havoc crushers from across the map
hybrid plover
Just can't overlap it as well.
past stratus
sounds a little like heresy here <:staregryn:1022085083844325376>
it's heretic for it to be so shit
tall torrent
IIIa and IV both good
calm shard
and then what happens once I've killed every single crusher/mauler before they even get to my team?
they get overrun by poxers and like 4 ragers
and somehow it's my fault for not using VoC
every time
tall torrent
It’s just a bit more crit dependent
past stratus
IV the helbore? I'm pretty sure no one is talking shit about the IV
calm shard
IV is exactly as much kill as is necessary in auric
because it narrowly gets a 1 shot crusher breakpoint
tall torrent
Pretty sure the only reg enemy IIIa can’t 1 tap is Dreg gunner
calm shard
(this is important clearly)
tall torrent
Reaper 1 tap for IV needs a bit of damage juice
narrow widget
they get overrun by poxers and like 4 ragers
see you shouldve just been spamming shots into the pox horde instead of focusing priority targets
surely
yea run infiltrate instead smh
unreal forge
the hb mk4 melee used to be even worse than it is
rn
I wish it had the other marks' melee
tame lodge
narrow widget
We need that back
3 more nerfs to helbore!
calm shard
better times
unreal forge
well damn the Mk3 and Mk4 HB seem to have about the same killtime on an Auric POgryn
like ~15 seconds on only headshots
give or take 2 or 3 depending on crits
calm shard
https://fximgur.com/a/RXk2Lkf demolish pogryn
cyan verge
what gun are you running with this
spice shard
what gun are you running with this
judging by a video they posted a while back looks like braced autogun
past stratus
that's the Helbore MkIV
spice shard
that's the Helbore MkIV
which isnt used by a gun psyker
past stratus
oh I was thinking about the video mb
cyan verge
oh cool thanks
I keep forgetting psyker gets recon lasgun
I have a vraks that'll do tho
spice shard
https://fximgur.com/a/RXk2Lkf demolish pogryn
what build did ya use for this though, be nice to use a non-shout build for once
calm shard
what build did ya use for this though, be nice to use a non-shout build for once
you won't like it
spice shard
you won't like it
used to not liking things but doing em anyway
spice shard
legend
calm shard
rending
with a helbore IV?
also you can SEE deadshot draining my stamina
smh
stamina
hollow ibex
Taxed like an honest billionaire
narrow widget
late jungle
collect my shredder grenades ..
faint beacon
my billions of shredders
fossil lake
dump defence or mobi for shovel?
narrow frost
def
fossil lake
bet
hybrid plover
am i crazy to say
fervent citrus
im curious: is the autopistol useful for anything lmao
hybrid plover
All or Nothing is not bad at all on the shovel
vet's innately bad stamina regen actually makes this blessing pretty damn good
pallid jetty
calm shard
How do you Veterans feel being the weakest class?
helbore IV to the head
formal ice
What are we laughing at
pallid jetty
actually yeah, only helbore build is playable
hybrid plover
How do you Veterans feel being the weakest class?
good because bragging rights
formal ice
good because bragging rights
calm shard
Do a aim test
no
dense belfry
How do you Veterans feel being the weakest class?
Veteran is a litmus test on heresy: if I'M the last person alive, you lot need to step up your game and give me some voltarol for my back from killing all these mutants.
little path
meta dueling sword is mk4 right?
grand perch
Veteran is a litmus test on heresy: if I'M the last person alive, you lot need t...
Nah veteran is more of a Ligma test
little path
How do you Veterans feel being the weakest class?
formal ice
<:wtfgryn:1099688205420347412>
little path
pretty sure zealot is the weakest by virtue of not having shredders and plasma guns
little path
🫃
little path
what's it?
formal ice
little path
yours was meme images
formal ice
yours was meme images
little path
true kraken
balmy flume
How do you Veterans feel being the weakest class?
Weakest? Weakest!?
I’d like to see what people would do without Gold Toughness from VoC in high level Havoc runs…
formal ice
Weakest? Weakest!?
I’d like to see what people would do without Gold Toughness f...
Relax display name 6382759111011011011
I am saying weakest of the bunch
Not actually bad
balmy flume
Lol fair enough
normal bay
I’m not getting my toughness
Did you accidentally remove the piss toughness node?
slender latch
Did you accidentally remove the piss toughness node?
Wdym?
slender latch
Wait you saying that dosent come as default??
slender latch
You get some toughness replenishment by default but won't give you yellow
That’s actually crazy, I was straight up gonna pop a blood vessel
“Fat shark give me my fucking toughness regen right now”
slender latch
The right side purple is starting to to get on my nerves
normal bay
Even though it's not really a tax since its very powerful
slender latch
Like I get you shoot your gun and you get a benefit to your melee and vice versa
However the stacks don’t stack high enough when rapidly weapon swapping
slender latch
Even though it's not really a tax since its very powerful
Vets whole stick is done better by two classes
Unless you run plasma
normal bay
Embrace helbore
real shoal
I mean, how much do you need WS to stack up? 1 stack while ranged is enough for full melee benefit, and 3 melee kills is enough to ensure the next shot is a crit.
And really, 2 can usually suffice.
Like, double shotty can almost go one to one on heavy attacks and shots with it.
steep flower
However the stacks don’t stack high enough when rapidly weapon swapping
Thats the case for arby not vet
slender latch
How should I run a hellbore build?
normal bay
This is a good base
You can tailor it to suit which variant and what melee weapon you want to run
slender latch
Think this is the wrong link
tacit sonnet
thanks
normal bay
This is what I'm running with Heavy sword + Helbore IV for example
slender latch
Thanks, having a crack at it now
frank basin
bronze warren
What’s a good/fun autogun build for the vet?
tough tiger
Phallic custodes
tame lodge
Do not the custodes
grand perch
i built a custodes tank once
steep flower
My first thought was Metapod from Pokemon
frigid shuttle
, how is veteran leveling experience this horrid
normal bay
I found it easier than psyker or zealot
Once you get shout and grenade regen its easy
Throw kraks at all your problems
frigid shuttle
I levelled psyker at launch so I don't remember it at all, but zealot and arbi have been vastly superior experiences.
strange crow
Shredder frags though 
arctic rampart
why do I see people taking shock trooper on hellbore w/ survivalist on top? I thought that gun was stupid efficient already
normal bay
why do I see people taking shock trooper on hellbore w/ survivalist on top? I t...
For the rest of the team
arctic rampart
then again I see people taking it on recons too, but you don't need it there either
spring ocean
survivalist is often for everyone, not just vet
strange crow
I think he means adding shock trooper on top of survivalist
tame lodge
why do I see people taking shock trooper on hellbore w/ survivalist on top? I t...
It goes from neutral to positive ammo economy
It's just that good
arctic rampart
like people are taking useless ammo economy over reciprocity & desperado. ok?
tame lodge
Useless ammo economy 😭
spring ocean
useless ammo eco when you have creature teammates that mag dump all the way to 0 before you even reach the first quarter of the mission
arctic rampart
Useless ammo economy 😭
I guess it depends on what modifiers you're playing. Seems odd choice for a general one is what I'm trying but failing to say
spring ocean
it's nice not having to expect randoms to have some manners when it comes to ammo use
arctic rampart
useless ammo eco when you have creature teammates that mag dump all the way to 0...
they don't deserve more ammo though... chances are they can't aim
spring ocean
sure, but why should you have to suffer for it?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
why not just have god tier ammo eco and never worry about it?
unless it's not your playstyle then understandable
arctic rampart
vets are starved for talent points. dont you want e.g. desperado
tame lodge
arctic rampart
^ could take a keystone instead of ammo economy there
spring ocean
lol
arctic rampart
oh ok. well you didnt take demo team so 2 points at best
strange crow
oh ok. well you didnt take demo team so 2 points at best
You don't actually need both target down and redirect fire though?
arctic rampart
You don't actually need both target down and redirect fire though?
its not my build. personally I usually just go focus target for boss damage runs. and voice of command w/ duty and honor
arctic rampart
the iron sights turned me off hellbore. might have to get that weapon customize mod to try it out for real
spring ocean
the weapon customize mod is not up to date and still is very buggy for me personally
causes alot of memory leaks to happen, but the extra sights do help alot.
frigid shuttle
mindblowing that fatshark hasn't implemented it officially
spring ocean
kind of defeats the purpose of some ranged weapons having more functionality or playstyles than others.
and yes, the weapon customization is mega cheese, since you can put whatever you want on it from sights to lasers, to flashlights and so on.
frigid shuttle
kind of defeats the purpose of some ranged weapons having more functionality or ...
don't care, those kind of limitations are so annoying
fatshark could always ban it, if it was against the rules 
spring ocean
¯_(ツ)_/¯
normal bay
the iron sights turned me off hellbore. might have to get that weapon customize...
The IV variant has decent sights
Not amazing but I can work with them lol
cyan verge
stock helbore 3a sights are like... okay...
wait
this is the mark 4
... why is this equipped
cyan verge
okay yeah this sucks
sonic kayak
normal bay
okay yeah this sucks
Best part is, you have to aim slightly higher due to misalignment.
So you see even less
cyan verge
oh god
fair jay
I get if they think it makes more sense to not have a scope but
I hate misaligned ads so much
cyan verge
I hate misaligned ads so much
yeah helldivers 2 has had such problems since release
it's funny because everyone gives like the call of duty games crap for being, you know, what they are, but... at least they get the guns right
the experience of shooting in a call of duty is always legit
tall torrent
Best part is, you have to aim slightly higher due to misalignment.
So you see *...
Don’t think it’s misaligned?
The skin that is currently misaligned is the vostroyan skin
normal bay
Don’t think it’s misaligned?
I aim above their head at longer ranges and it connects
I shoot directly on their head and get a white number
Something feels wrong
Default skin
tall torrent
I aim above their head at longer ranges and it connects
I shoot directly on the...
which enemy
normal bay
which enemy
Many, I'll grab a vid in a bit
languid lark
Anyone can reccomend a meta build
sonic kayak
left, right, and down
tall torrent
Many, I'll grab a vid in a bit
I'm using monitor crosshair and it's not rly misaligned
unlike the vostroyan skin where the actual point of aim is very clearly below the tip of the front sight
tame lodge
Anyone can reccomend a meta build
Bolt Pistol with Lethal Proximity blessing recommended
Could also
languid lark
Bolt Pistol with Lethal Proximity blessing recommended
Ohhh!
tame lodge
tall torrent
no demo team
tame lodge
It's there now
Mk2 tree
I will not recommend dropping 0.25 delay to get chance of double grenades though
tame lodge
Unrelated
But I'm going through my Heretical playthrough on RT
Might be cooking with Idira
Bounty Hunter Idira with Savour the kill so she gets extra turns to either buff and Debuff like crazy
Or she kills herself
No in between
bronze idol
would someone mind giving me a classic recon lasgun and a plasma gun build for veteran? (the idea of the crit lasgun ammo saver build with infernus sounds nice but no idea if that is still viable or not. Guides here seem to be somewhat outdated?)
heavy rover
The guide isn't too outdated, most of it still stands pretty well
bronze idol
The guide isn't too outdated, most of it still stands pretty well
Oh, fair enough! Was comparing it to the 2nd guide there and I wasn't sure if people had differing ideas or if both were outdated 😄 But the newest one doesn't have any build examples in there.
heavy rover
Yeah the thing with vet is that there are a million different builds that are viable, it's down to your playstyle and preference
bronze idol
also.. is there a specific reason for this EXACT stat distribution? the guide doesn't mention it
heavy rover
So it gets hard to point to an exact build
bronze idol
I assume it is a certain breakpoint for something?
heavy rover
Ah, yeah you don't get much benefit beyond that
bronze idol
damn... got really lucky lol
clever hedge
I assume it is a certain breakpoint for something?
It gives you one more shot before over heat at 69% thermal resist
All excess is wasted cause even at 80% you do not get more shots before over heat
So the rest is dumped into charge rate
bronze idol
It gives you one more shot before over heat at 69% thermal resist
OOOOH... so my 68% doesn't get it, right?
clever hedge
Correct
heavy rover
Yeah, gotta hit it right at the funny number
bronze idol
I assume a 70-70 between those two is still worth it?
clever hedge
Yes
Not perfect but good enough
On the recon build note MrE on YouTube has a pretty good build
Just drop the knife for PS or Radshad
tall torrent
OOOOH... so my 68% doesn't get it, right?
u gotta test it...
don't sell it
@bronze idol
cyan verge
sometimes the stats just like... lie too
I think I had a 69/71 that ended up at like 65/75 when I finished upgrading it, and I was like wtf what a gyp
tall torrent
you said it didn't work xD
I didn't
bronze idol
I wanna cry now lol
bronze idol
I did get another 68 but... bad stats on the side
cyan verge
just get lucky 4head
heavy rover
yea after another 6 million dockets
bronze idol
dude baited me so hard...
never listening to nemo again
there goes the perfect roll =_=
cyan verge
oh look I just had this in my inventory guess I'll use this instead of my like 75/65 one
heavy rover
Bruh
bronze idol
I feel like I'm dumping my wallet in a gacha game right now
heavy rover
Close enough imo
cyan verge
shouldn't you be getting more like 300-ish rating weapons if you're level 30 and trying for a perfect weapon
don't waste all your resources on this nonsense when you probably have more important things to dump dockets into
bronze idol
what level are you again?
this character is 20.. I just made him
bronze idol
Oh I already have 3 lvl 30s 😄
heavy rover
Oh... Yeah I wouldn't stress too much about stats until level 30
bronze idol
I just never felt like playing Ogryn or Veteran until this week so I just made them
cyan verge
no I am not saying like "LOL NOOB" I am saying "you will waste resources for an extra like 10 crafts on this gun if you gamble on it now"
bronze idol
oh guys don't worry I have a bunch of resources to dump on these...
bronze idol
like... 22k dia, 50k plat, and 'had' 4mil gold (I know you all have like 500k dia :D)
heavy rover
Yeah, I'd say close enough
bronze idol
yeah I'm not rolling anymore, I'll use that one
atomic void
oh guys don't worry I have a bunch of resources to dump on these...
they made it so you get worse rolls if you're not 30
so you're burning dockets lol
bronze idol
they made it so you get worse rolls if you're not 30
worse rolls in the sense that... instead of 3 being 80 and 2 being randomly lower... you have a higher chance to get less than 4 being 80?
sudden cedar
It all goes into the fund for finding the missing quartermaster Brunt
heavy rover
No it all goes into Hadron's plasteel addiction
atomic void
worse rolls in the sense that... instead of 3 being 80 and 2 being randomly lowe...
you are less likely to get the godrolls basically
i dont know the math behind it but you will be getting more random bad rolls
bronze idol
you are less likely to get the godrolls basically
does the game 'actually' know that 69 thermal and 71 charge is a god roll?
atomic void
no clue tbh
but i blew millions on arbeetus weapons pre level 30 and got nothing
spent after hitting 30 and got literally all of them
bronze idol
cuz I thought lower levels just meant the rolls made it so that you had a higher chance of NOT getting 4 80s and 1 60
bronze idol
that's why I did it now (at a lower level) so my chances of gettin 2 stats skewed would be higher
bronze idol
its a recent change with campaign update
right on
sooooo...... back to the first topic... anyone want to share their recon lasgun and plasma gun builds? 😄
cyan verge
I just do what the guide tells me to do...
bronze idol
I just do what the guide tells me to do...
either I'm blind, or the guide doesn't have a build in it.
cyan verge
do you mean... oh for talents
bronze idol
cyan verge
if you want those welp you just have to beg here until someone shares
bronze idol
Aaaah... fair enough~
cyan verge
here is a plasma build I stole from here a while ago
I think it originally had kraks tho
just keep in mind I think you want that ranged node beneath shredders
tall torrent
sooooo...... back to the first topic... anyone want to share their recon lasgun ...
plasma & power sword VI (havoc)
bronze idol
@cyan verge @tall torrent thank you both very much! 🙂
cyan verge
that havoc build is exactly what I have which I also stole from here
bronze idol
that havoc build is exactly what I have which I also stole from here
good to know 😄
Once again, I really appreciate you all for the help! So far, Psyker w/ Illisi and Electro, Zealot w/ Relic and Zarona/Purge and Arbi w/ Arbaton and Exec has been awesome... now I gotta figure out what feels good with the Vet
bronze idol
and that's basically it if you ask me
cyan verge
executioners stance + boltgun is fun for one magazine
bronze idol
I mean, I'm a Psyker at heart so... using ammo in general feels heretical
cyan verge
what about gunker
bronze idol
I'll admit, I haven't tried that yet
frigid shuttle
cshotty is what I'm running for levelling, it's okay, not sure if I'll enjoy this class at 30 though
bronze idol
never found a good build for it
bronze idol
cshotty is what I'm running for levelling, it's okay, not sure if I'll enjoy thi...
slug version is a joy to use tbh
heavy rover
Helbore got a buff, I suggest giving it a try
frigid shuttle
this penance requires the unupgraded skill or does it work with survivalist?
bronze idol
Helbore got a buff, I suggest giving it a try
will do right after maxing recon and plasma
cyan verge
it works with survivalist
bronze idol
I hated plasma in SM2, felt weak as shit... so I'm curious as to how they handled it here
cyan verge
uhhh
bronze idol
I should clarify... compared to Las Fusil and Melta/Multi Melta it felt like crap
heavy rover
Be aware that the helbore is a love-it-or-hate-it kind of weapon
cyan verge
I dunno what to tell you the plasma gun in this game is more like some kind of messed up railgun
bronze idol
I dunno what to tell you the plasma gun in this game is more like some kind of m...
Hell yeah!
cyan verge
it just goes fwoosh and annihilates everything in a big line
heavy rover
But if it clicks with you, you can run havoc 40 without ever needing ammo pick ups
bronze idol
But if it clicks with you, you can run havoc 40 without ever needing ammo pick u...
Now that.... sounds like an awesome weapon to me. I do like ammo efficiency
cyan verge
it's a lasgun but you have to hold down LMB and release to fire
normal bay
@tall torrent Was messing around in the psychanium, the two gunners and Mauler seem to be the worst, so maybe it isn't a sight alignment thing?
I always find aiming higher in these guys gets me weakspot hits
Scab rager is a bit weird too
heavy rover
Now that.... sounds like an awesome weapon to me. I do like ammo efficiency
Yeah, you can finally stop fighting with the zealots and arbites that scramble for all the ammo
Totally not from experience or anything
bronze idol
Yeah, you can finally stop fighting with the zealots and arbites that scramble f...
my friend is currently having a blast with his gungryn with the minigun (dunno the name of the gun) as he's just holding left click the whole time he's walking so I'm playing psyker to not fight for ammo lol
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> Was messing around in the psychanium, the two gunners and ...
think it's just their body part boxes being weird?
cyan verge
the twin-linked heavy stubber
tall torrent
u can use crosshair mod to check
normal bay
On console, I can't lol
Could hook it up to a monitor I guess but that's all the way upstairs
signal garden
@bronze idol weird, since idira is pretty good with a gun early
Gun psykers are good
@normal bay my advice is for he base gun half their head should be the target for a headshot, as the beam is more or less centered on the top of the sight post
This is in contrast to the sight post of the vostrayan skin, which has a triangular pointy post which needs to completely obscure your target's face if you're going to hit it in the face, which is incredibly unpleasant in practice
bronze idol
<@342212779693834260> weird, since idira is pretty good with a gun early
Idira? also, if you've got a gunker build, I would love to test it out!
signal garden
I don't have a gunker build I'm just responding to your comment that gun psyker is heretical
For idira early game in rogue trader it's the difference between a useful party member and a "free" mid-late game bloodletter spawning with more health than your entire team combined times 2 right in your backline ready to send you to the game over scree
Because lol unsanctionedpsyker
That said I think I speak for everyone when I say I think helbore would be better on psyker or zealot
Zealot because melee crits and backstabs and psyker because the super dodge and swap speed would be lit
normal bay
<@699694545385816124> my advice is for he base gun half their head should be the...
I've just been aiming for the tip of the head 
signal garden
On the basis of that one issue where hitting the edge of an enemy in motion tends to not count
I think center of mass is best
frigid shuttle
1 more level to power sword
normal bay
On the basis of that one issue where hitting the edge of an enemy in motion tend...
The what now
signal garden
But tip of the head is definitely my advice if you bought the vostrayan rifle
So there's some ping shenanigans where if you use a pin point weapon like an iLas or an autogun
If you aim for heads with a particularly shitty team (connection wise) or fatshark haven't reset the servers in a hot minute
You'll shoot, hear the headshot sound
And get zero hit feedback and do no damage
Naturally this doesn't happen in meat grinder but man, any attempt to use the iLas at length and you will run into this annoying issue
At which point you realize call of duty's "cuh ran around the corner but on my end I saw his ass when I shot it off" is much better for this type of game than whatever we have now
I'm convinced all ultra precision guns suck for this reason
Like yeah they do good if the enemy is running at you, but oh my ass pain when shooting at moving heads with an iLas, the helbore has a huge beam width though so this issue is never felt
tame lodge
Idira? also, if you've got a gunker build, I would love to test it out!
Idira is an unsanctioned divination telepath psyker
Those aren't really damage oriented disciplines, but she's also an operative so she can get some sniping done
Give her a sniper early on and pray that she doesn't kill herself when using her abilities
sudden cedar
Her downing herself is the least of the bad options that can happen
Or, from a different point of view, the best outcome of the bad options.
signal garden
Somehow her brain burst is capable of one shotting a helbrute
Right my worst outcomes are she downs herself AND summons a daemon
Or killing herself while stunning the team with a psychic quake that also wiped out a quarter of their health
sudden cedar
How about, she prones herself and everyone around her, summons a daemon that will kill her afterwards and all of that while fighting Aurora.. or something.
There are a lot of ways Idira can fuck you over.
signal garden
And yet she's the only reason I beat ||the undying emperor|| with a projected "3000-5.6k" damage emperors wrath
tame lodge
On my current heretical playthrough
She's a bounty hunter
Using all the extra turns to cover the battlefield in purple
Then use perfect timing so every ally affected by her abilities counter attack if they dodge/parry
Kinda funny but she's also very prone to fuck up
signal garden
Yeah that's just her
Very much like DD psyker in that regard
Razor thin margins between doing everything or just tripping at the starting line
on that note i wonder if RT was mocking DT when it added the armor shredding/piercing shovel
which would make the world of difference in our current shovel
cyan verge
just fold shovel
sudden cedar
signal garden
one folding shovel attack has the same issues as the chainsword
my problems that demand i fold the shovel, do not come single file
sudden cedar
Idira Tlass, Rogue Psyker and an early game russian roulette
tame lodge
She's either a goddess
Or a liability
signal garden
russian roulette all game
tame lodge
Depending on your luck
sudden cedar
Ah yes, you thought this early game fight is difficult? How about we add a Screamer of Tzeentch to it? Oh and your Psyker is now on the floor, incapacitated.
signal garden
@cyan verge the two games frequently intersect
this is a small tie in quest where you go find a "veteran of tertium" and all you find is his shovel in a mound of gore
languid sparrow
signal garden
or the commemorative rogue trader themed cosmetics or the two games suspiciously adding in the arbys at practically the same time
signal garden
based
heckin based
what even could we get at this point
that would actually make people happy
storm bolter?
eviscerator/flamer?
power sabre?
dare i even suggest it
inferno pistol
sudden cedar
The Koronus Star. Very nice one in my opinion.
signal garden
remove veteran infiltrate
frigid shuttle
or the commemorative rogue trader themed cosmetics or the two games suspiciously...
It's not suspicious at all, it's obvious tie-in with gw
signal garden
add in inferno blast
your crime is your heretical existence, your punishment is a melta shot to the face
funny how infiltrate has 4 potential optional talents
@frigid shuttle when you say tie in do you mean GW being not at all subtle in its heavy handedness to push arbys minis
frigid shuttle
yes
signal garden
based
you mean like that time TWWH2 and vermintide 2 were hot as all hell
and then people went in droves to buy skaven
and then all they could buy was stormcast eternals
tame lodge
that would actually make people happy
There's no winning, man
Add a gun to a class and all the others will want one
That being said
Gimme a flail
signal garden
arco flagellant class
who even uses a flail in 40k other than like, off the top of my head, the dreadnoughts and the gray knights walkers
@tame lodge well thats the thing, all 3 human classes had unique weapons to make them stand out
thats less of a thing now
that and the eviscerator kind of is not very good
and the powersword is more of a curse than a boon
tame lodge
I will ignore your statement about Eviscerator
And still trying to remember if Imperial Dominator is 40k or classic
signal garden
ok well my issue with eviscerator right now is just that
its like a big uh
a big heavy sword
the heavy sword literally does the same things as the eviscerator
and I dont look at zealot and think "not having a way to dispatch crushers and maulers quickly is acceptable in 2025"
with the benchmarks being a mix of arbites beat stick, ogryn beatstick, and the packs of unflinchable BS you run into in havocs
tame lodge
It's 40k alright
signal garden
that looks like some feudal world shenanigans
signal garden
not that im complaining
hollow ibex
The Hsword can't kill carapace
Hey it can. Just at about 500 dps
signal garden
heavy sword heavy attack with zealot's innately high crit shenanigans i FEEL like it can do about the same type of hits
and then vet for sure can KINDA match that with rending and brittleness on crit
but i feel like thats what the eviscerator can do
and as much as i like how fast the eviscerator can kill many things, it just takes one bad spawn to feel awful, and that simply isnt an issue on arbys or ogryn
cyan verge
I am comfortable with classes having unique weapons so long as they suit them
signal garden
i say give zealot passive crit boons and give veteran passive/base wkpoint damage or rending
yeah zealot should not have a weapon of finesse like the DS
vet obviously needs it for commissar larp
but on no planet is that an acceptable substitute for the venerable power sabre
cyan verge
no reason to give veteran a force sword, but the helbore seems kind of non-specific
signal garden
ackually force swords are psyker weapons
cyan verge
but I dunno
signal garden
well one caveat
cyan verge
I guess you can already take, a duelling sword, and a bolt pistol or laspistol
signal garden
if arbys are super special elite outputs of the schola progenium
i dont want commissar larp if literal commissars are on the table
cyan verge
but with the like combination weapon of the shotpistol + shield right which is very much a competent melee weapon, and a gun at the same time, it would actually be nice to have a combination sword + pistol for vet
signal garden
then again commissars being deployed en masse aiming at each others heads in partys of 4 is probably the most immersion shattering thing
balmy flume
if arbys are super special elite outputs of the schola progenium
If you think arbys are OP now imagine them introducing actual Scions 💀
Not the federal police, but the actual special forces…
signal garden
yeah stormtrooper, no sprint
helgun, 2 seconds of infinite ammo on walking over a shooter corpse
@cyan verge as for the helbore being nonspeciifc, i think its for krieg larp
cyan verge
which is fine I guess
I just wish it had like, then, a more specific appearance
by default it just looks kind of like a regular lasgun
cyan verge
however, if you look at the like customization that they were planning to add via weapon customization mod, you can see it has wooden furniture, right
that would have helped a lot imo
signal garden
it has a distinct silhouette
cyan verge
if when you got a helbore, it just had wooden furniture
then it'd be like oh okay this is a little more special, than 'just' a stamped out lasgun
cyan verge
... what am I even talking about it already does have wooden furniture
signal garden
the helbore is pretty iconic in rogue trader too
cyan verge
signal garden
theres lasguns, then theres this one ribbed for your pleasure
cyan verge
anyway I dunno
cyan verge
oh don't we all? but I dunno I think that despite everything it doesn't feel like it NEEDS to go to the veteran as a veteran weapon right
signal garden
it even looks like a colonialist rifle from the back with all the rounded and ornate features
just randomly retro all over the place
cyan verge
the plasma gun, like yeah sure
give that to the shooty guy
the flamer suits the zealot too
but we have the infantry autoguns and stuff that everyone uses, and I think the helbore fits that well enough
signal garden
i feel like anyone who uses an auto gun is equal parts sadistic and trying too hard to be different in this game
not to say theyre bad, but autoguns are for hive scum (theyre bad)
signal garden
i dont understand the autoguns in this game
the braced autogun has high stagger
and cosnistent recoil
and then the aimed autogun fucking SUCKS at headshots
UNLESS you hipfire
cyan verge
I don't agree
cyan verge
the IAGs noticeably have a thing where
signal garden
the braced one is the one i want to not have stagger because im running and gunning
cyan verge
if you try and spray the recoil goes up for a bit but then your guy wrestles it down so in the last two thirds of the magazine if you really hold down LMB you get much more consistent accuracy
so the longer you shoot the better the recoil gets for you
signal garden
and the corollary is for some reason its just alot easier to headshot in hipfire at about uh
grenade diameter range
but yeah if any class should have a power fist it should be veteran
power fist and plasma pistol new weapon ww@
actually i wonder if cutting my fps down to 30 will improve my headpopping
im a victim of the ghost shot whenever i use ilas and autogun
only reason i dont use them
cyan verge
lol
tame lodge
Angry face optional
cyan verge
plasma pistol on the vet would be good
spring spindle
I personally love the braced AG (specifically Agri) it’s such a cozy fun with shovel
I took it with kraks when I first used it and personally it worked well
signal garden
optional?
@tame lodge what even is the use of that wargear loadout in practice
i imagine its a guardsman so you want him to hold a point
so he should pew pew but you were a mad enough lad to invest the extra points on a power fist
tame lodge
Seems like a close-mid range setup
Fighting against something powerful enough to warrant a power fist
cyan verge
I can think of some reasons why, but it'd be kinda niche or situational right
signal garden
yeah it makes sense on an assault class imo like the humble space marine
but iirc in TT guardsmen occupy board space to contribute to the win
its elite troops that do the heavy offensive lifting
cyan verge
course, but it might like help deter chunkier armored chaos dudes or something from charging in
so eh
signal garden
get overran by their nasty ass looking cultists
the better plinker wins
just look at the number one source of damage in havocs
freaking basic bitch shooters
strangely darktide is faithful to the table top
and even the absolute lethality of basic bitch shooters is a thing in space marine 2
because for some reason every traitor guardsman and their mother has an autogun capable of puncturing ceramite, or a long las
steel veldt
I got be methodical, now I don't have to use exe stance ever again!
I lost like every game I played it with lmao, yeah sure I kill everything but I make 1 mistake it's a team wipe
signal garden
unironically do mortis trials
no one queues for it and its not even unfun
well to late now but still
steel veldt
How does that fix exe stance tho
hybrid plover
it's funny because everyone gives like the call of duty games crap for being, yo...
This was a while ago but funny enough, this isnt entirely true.
Helldivers actually had this and then at some point, reintroduced it but it takes into consideration "height over bore" which is where misalignment tends to come from
Other than the AMR I think. That one actually did have a proper issue with it.
Also COD is crap beyond that.
signal garden
@steel veldt have you played mortis trials?
steel veldt
once
signal garden
constant trickle of enemies
calm shard
Helldivers actually had this and then at some point, reintroduced it but it take...
yeah people bitched about scopes that weren't misaligned because the guns actually had height over bore modeled
people still complain about the burst fire in helldivers
signal garden
one of the mutators is "zero cost ammo while in exe stance"
calm shard
because it's real burst fire
signal garden
which you know, infinite ammo bolter
calm shard
not videogame burst fire
hybrid plover
Yeah where you actually hold the trigger.
steel veldt
saw a vet with 4 wounds in damnation
I got 3 wounds :)
hybrid plover
Now don't get me wrong.
Idk if it's entirely the play to have it in the game but really, Helldivers got gunplay more realistically correct than COD does with that in mind.
signal garden
helldivers is run by incompetent fools
hybrid plover
Or many first person shooters honestly.
signal garden
more eager to reinvent the wheel than to make a game that plays well
as a small example, literally every game figured out early on your 3rd and 1st person models should be separate
but since they had to be realistic for the longest time
every thing has an annoying parallax effect
the same parralax effect that causes enemies to god mode in melee range because your gun shoots from waaaaaaay off to the side
the same parallax that causes a robot to blowitself up because gun cant shoot out of barrel??? which lost planet and mechwarrior solved decades ago
and dont get me started on them being unable to implement scopes correctly, off centered misaligned scopes for like 1 whole year
to which i say if theres one thing helldivers could never get right, its playtesting
signal garden
which wre the two long ranged weapons lol
calm shard
I dunno about railgun being long range back then
Until recently it had a lot of spread
I think the spread value was like 40?
Something around there
signal garden
well yeah the optic also completely obscures your target
cyan verge
idk the HMG also doesn't fire accurately at where the sight tells you it is aiming at which is just stupid to me
signal garden
but i figure youre aiming at big targets so whatever
normal bay
I think most had some misalignment issues. Those where just the worst
signal garden
long range vs big targets
@cyan verge on launch the HMG was held like 5 inches too low
cyan verge
I don't care, like you can't realistically expect me to aim a gun like it's a mortar like I am just observing fall of shot, in a third person shooter
signal garden
it was so stupid
cyan verge
it still works like that where your shots never really hit anywhere near the sight's crosshairs
signal garden
well i rest my case then
arrowheads biggest issue is they dont play their own damn game
cyan verge
because it shoots I guess the heaviest bullets known to man and they arc like someone throwing a volleyball
yes
100%
they balance through analytics exclusively
calm shard
They don't though?
signal garden
nerf this nerf that some jerk off is just reading loadout statistics
calm shard
Oh god not the AH only nerfs shit again
Like they haven't had buffs outpace nerfs in every single patch of the game
signal garden
Like the railgun is the most iconic gun example
cyan verge
no it's not just that
signal garden
"we're going to nerf railguns"
calm shard
Every single meta in the game was from a weapon that got buffed past release
cyan verge
they do buff things of course, a lot of things
but the problem is that they seem to do it not based on the quality of the weapon but by how much it is being used
calm shard
"we're going to nerf railguns"
Yeah because it was overpowered and the community was literally kicking people for not bringing it
signal garden
its totally not because rocket launchers sucked, and those STUPID mutators where you couldnt call shit down or everything had a 10 minute cooldown
calm shard
Nerfing it is the obvious solution
signal garden
@calm shard its not that it was overpowered but that people were bringing it on cancer missions where you literally didnt have enough anti tank
calm shard
but the problem is that they seem to do it not based on the quality of the weapo...
Generally this has nerfed overperformers pretty consistently
signal garden
they set the railgun up for that
calm shard
The only times they've nerfed something and it hasn't deserved it was with the Quasar Cannon, Slugger, and Crossbow
signal garden
AND they nerfed it on the basis that PS5 owners were doing 4 times the intended damage
jerkoffs
calm shard
Railgun was overpowered even beyond the PS5 bug making it even more busted
hybrid plover
Well it's not nerfed anymore. Rail guns in a good spot.
cyan verge
its totally not because rocket launchers sucked, and those STUPID mutators where...
oh those were just objectively dumb
didn't they actually remove those modifiers
and then never replace them with anything else
signal garden
well remember they nerfed it, and it took like 4 months to remove those stupid modifiers
cyan verge
because I guess they couldn't think of any interesting ways to make the game harder
lol
beyond, oh you fire slower? or weapons overheat more??? or something???
genius level design
signal garden
because lo and behold eagle 1 is superior since charges beats that stupid 4 minutes for a rocket launcher
bullshit
and then people were whining about chargers
calm shard
They've tried making the game harder by introducing harder enemy variants to high difficulties like the Rocket Tanks, Rocket Striders, and the Predator Strain bugs
hybrid plover
War Striders
calm shard
But people bitch endlessly about those too
signal garden
and then the devs were like "nonono you idiots youre supposed to shoot 3 rockets at their face"
calm shard
Which is why Rocket Tanks and Rocket Striders are very weak enemies now
signal garden
and then the whole community was like "how tf are we supposed to be expected to bring that many rockets"
calm shard
Chargers weren't one shottable for I think 1 week after release?
Somewhere around there
And even then people figured out the leg meta pretty quick
signal garden
yeah, enter the railgun lol
cyan verge
the leg meta which was unintentional lol
signal garden
railgun into flaming leg meta
calm shard
Railgun nerf patch is the same patch that made chargers 1 shot headshot by rockets
cyan verge
there was a blog post about it where they were like "uh well we didn't expect players to do this leg meta thing but it's cool!!!"
calm shard
Bile Titans were always a 2 shot up until the 60 day patch where now they're a one shot just about anywhere
signal garden
regardless arrowhead was so braindead they eternally made the GLOWING ASS WEAKSPOT not the weakspot on all terminids
cyan verge
yeah, I think that is just... like... dumb
calm shard
Yeah I think part of that comes from their experience being with top down games
hybrid plover
regardless arrowhead was so braindead they eternally made the GLOWING ASS WEAKSP...
It is with explosive weapons
But yeah it should be with anything
calm shard
They don't really seem to understand how to make intuitive weakspots for enemies in a shooter environment
Because in HD1 it was just as simple as "aim center mass for more damage"
signal garden
@hybrid plover for all the wrong reasons, like "muh shrapnel" on that one bolt action rifle
calm shard
You see it on other enemies like Overseers, Harvesters, and even Striders
signal garden
im assuming its unattended
cyan verge
well I think that, they almost seemed to not WANT to make the giant obvious weak point all that effective to shoot at?
calm shard
<@109528432425062400> for all the wrong reasons, like "muh shrapnel" on that one...
That one was 100% deserved
IT was using the shrapnel from the Orbital Airbust stratagem
cyan verge
which is very strange because why make a gigantic weak spot on an enemy
and then have it be not a weak spot
calm shard
And doing upwards of 20K damage a shot
signal garden
but yeah it all goes back to why on earth these clowns cant playtest their game
calm shard
That weapon should have never been added
signal garden
pilstedt caught playing and failing on D3
calm shard
It's cool but god what a disaster of balance it has been
cyan verge
the only gameplay I remember seeing was like at most in difficulty 6 or something
signal garden
and then chastising its community playing D9 with nerfs
not that it matters becaue the game crashes too often unless you just rush to finish the mission
cyan verge
and it was like well okay I mean, difficulty 10 even is not that hard when you have a party, right
calm shard
Difficulty 10 isn't hard period anymore
It has been nerfed so much, and weapons overbuffed so much
signal garden
well this goes back to how good the design of darktide is
youre always rewarded for spplitting up in space marine 2 or helldivers
cyan verge
I am okay with that to a degree personally, like in a co-op shooter I don't really want to be punished, THAT much
signal garden
it splits up the aggro
calm shard
I do that's why I play on the highest difficulty
signal garden
here in darktide you can buffer your vulnerability with your team
calm shard
It's why I play havoc and aurics in this game
It's why I used to play D10 in helldivers
signal garden
or god forbid, pick your team up from being netted
calm shard
But D10 is like...the normal difficulty now for normal gameplay
cyan verge
if you really want to like make the game really hard, then I think you can do havoc, and then it's like okay, I don't care about that challenge content, not really, I might go to like 20, 30, but I'm not going all the way
calm shard
Anything else is a snoozefest
cyan verge
but I dunno
signal garden
but the teamwork is good
cyan verge
I think their difficulty system has always had like... problems
signal garden
a blender of 4 in this game is meaningful
calm shard
youre always rewarded for spplitting up in space marine 2 or helldivers
This is because both games lack disablers
signal garden
well a lictor can be pretty overwhelming
calm shard
In the dev commentary for Left 4 Dead the developers mention the fear of disablers being the primary motivator for sticking together in that game
With the AI Director spawning more of them to target isolated players on purpose
To encourage staying grouped together
cyan verge
which they stole for darktide lol
signal garden
and i imagine the big issue with the damn assault cannon terminator is youre fucking instantly dead
cyan verge
valve, now they know how to make a fucking game
calm shard
Yeah it's good coop game design
There should be enemies that if they catch you alone you're just dead immediately
So that you're forced to play with your team
cyan verge
it's nuts that valve just wrote the book on like, so many things
calm shard
Although I don't think disablers would help Helldivers 2 much because of the large amount of respawns you're given
cyan verge
I like the cloaker
steel veldt
So how to properly use bpistol?
signal garden
whip it out, hipfire a trapper
watch its torso reach low orbit
go back to whackin n smacking
calm shard
So how to properly use bpistol?
don't use it, just have it with lethal proximity in your pocket to make your grenades better
steel veldt
I like having fun and shooting it at hordes, and individual enemies because it has so much ammo I basically never run out
steel veldt
don't use it, just have it with lethal proximity in your pocket to make your gre...
that's a big bummer
I really like it
signal garden
if the tax is removed im rolling the aimed crit thing on it
becasue if/when you crit with the bonus damage on critical weakspot
you can 5-8 shot a normal boss i think
its just that 8 back to back crits on a bolt pistol natty is not really all that possible
unless youre playing zealot or something
calm shard
you can 5-8 shot a normal boss i think
no
cyan verge
I just saw a psyker die to two poxbursters because they hugged a spawn door
they were like level 250 with storm survivor or something
sudden cedar
Dare i say.
cyan verge
wat
signal garden
F, well damn close for 8 boolitt
calm shard
not really
sudden cedar
I wouldn't call 1/3 HP left "well damn close"
cloud rock
https://tenor.com/view/heresy-detected-gif-25567321
NOOOOO
sudden cedar
calm shard
and frankly if you're using a meme oops all damage build you're probably a helbore enjoyer
cloud rock
I keep forgetting I don’t have rights
calm shard
I keep forgetting I don’t have rights
cloud rock
and frankly if you're using a meme oops all damage build you're probably a helbo...
I am a hellbore enjoyer but I’m make sure my loadout makes zero sense
signal garden
to be fair faceclicking with consistency in combat is alot more likely on a boltpistol than a helbore
at least when talking big ol bosses
cloud rock
to be fair faceclicking with consistency in combat is alot more likely on a bolt...
If I wanna do loads of damage I go on my zealot and run either bolter or flamer
calm shard
first off its default sights are misaligned
second off bolt weapons have bugged recoil that makes your gun not shoot where you're aiming
calm shard
If I wanna do loads of damage I go on my zealot and run either bolter or flamer
loads of damage with bolter is done better by both vet and arbites
vet in particular
arbites needs castigator's stacks to match veteran ranged damage
focus target also one mags pogryns with bolter
calm shard
do keep in mind that "loads of damage" on zealot is not attainable with chorus equipped
needs FOTF to do so
cloud rock
loads of damage with bolter is done better by both vet and arbites
Fair but
When I have a bolter I tend to try and get into the enemies face to counteract the full auto without aiming
calm shard
I don't see why vet can't do that
Being at close range is not exclusive to zealot
especially since vet can just throw shredders to get trash to fuck off for a moment to safely magdump the bolter
sudden cedar
@cloud rock Unfortunately, the Flamer is not really a good weapon for Zealot.
tame lodge
cloud rock
Being at close range is not exclusive to zealot
I’m trying to stack ranged damage for my vet, and add to that some krak grenades, if that don’t work imma do a commando themed loadout
cloud rock
Like a true zealot
That’s why I have the flamer
calm shard
krak grenades are completely worthless
cloud rock
Burn the heretics
cloud rock
Then get close
cloud rock
krak grenades are completely worthless
I use them for the meme mostly
calm shard
they're not funny though they're just sad
cloud rock
<@1395901217133170799> Unfortunately, the Flamer is not really a good weapon for...
I know
But
Also
Holy fire
calm shard
wow a 2 second fuse for it to...oh the enemy is already dead
and now it kills nothing
very cool grenade
cloud rock
wow a 2 second fuse for it to...oh the enemy is already dead
You just use it too soon or in the wrong place
Chuck it at a rager while your team is off ignoring the issue at hand
calm shard
But why would I chuck it at a rager?
I can just one shot them in melee
Or with my gun
They're not worth a krak
sudden cedar
Don't get me wrong, the Flamer does very good what it is supposed to do. But it has limited ammo and limits you because the only way you can safely take out ranged enemies is with knives.
For everything else you would have to close the distance.
calm shard
not that zealot knives are bad at killing ranged enemies, or zealot is lacking in ways to close the distance
sudden cedar
Fine in theory, not so much when you make contact with the enemy.
calm shard
at least if you're not using book
sudden cedar
There is also Purgatus Psyker, for what it is worth.
calm shard
yeah fire is the best DoT in the game isn't it?
At least in terms of raw damage output
tame lodge
You will surpass soulblaze
sudden cedar
There are better ways to apply burning without limiting yourself to close range horde clear which can already be done in melee anyway.
calm shard
not if you're using one of the best single target melees in the game like the dueling sword/knife
tall torrent
yeah fire is the best DoT in the game isn't it?
fire is strongest DOT in terms of raw stats
soulblaze however massively exceeds everything else in terms of application
calm shard
fire is strongest DOT in terms of raw stats
soulblaze however massively exceeds ...
yeah raw stats is what I meant
tame lodge
Although you will have to build for carapace if you want to kill carapace
And it massively outcleaves and outranges your melee
Because infinite cleave is a thing lol
cyan verge
yeah soulblaze is like, there's just a few very strong talents on the psyker tree right that combo very well with each other to give you big soulblaze spread on everything
yay!!! soulblaze
tame lodge
it doesn't interact with cleave
cloud rock
flamer is not inf cleave
Do any ranged weapons interact with cleave?
tame lodge
Do any ranged weapons interact with cleave?
Yes most weapons interact with cleave
cloud rock
Good to know
cloud rock
If I ever dive into the meta side of loadouts I’ll be sure to check that
tame lodge
For example the vraks 5 has 1.15 cleave base iirc
tame lodge
The lowest enemy has 1.25 mass
tame lodge
Braced or infantry
Vraks5 is specifically infantry autogun
cloud rock
Vraks5 is specifically infantry autogun
Thank you
Again
I’m not deep in the meta side of things
I play it solely for fun
tame lodge
So your 1.15 cleave can't go through 1.25 mass
tame lodge
I’m not deep in the meta side of things
It's ok
Most of this info isn't in game anyways
You kinda never figure it out in-game
💀
Other than some observations
cloud rock
Yeah I was gonna say
I just
Run around with my lasrifle and shoot fuckers
Or my autogun if I’m going to make a point man loadout
signal garden
meta and fun arent necessarily mutually exclusive
tame lodge
And by default the carapace armor type will stop cleave
signal garden
especially on vet where most of its kit is either taxed or just unpleasant to play around
tame lodge
There are exceptions of course
tall torrent
Do any ranged weapons interact with cleave?
yea
any that doesn't do flame or explosion
idle bluff
I want them to add a single bladed power sword that acts like a tiny relic blade. Kinda like commisar power swords
cyan verge
bad feel
steel veldt
I will keep trying to make bolt pistol work, maybe my problem was that I used krak
when everyone kills them before it pops
cyan verge
the problem imo is just that krak is only really useful on bulwarks
tame lodge
I will keep trying to make bolt pistol work, maybe my problem was that I used kr...
Yes....
The problem of your gun.....
Is your grenade......
That makes sense.....
cyan verge
everything else, SOMEONE probably has a DS4 and will just stab all the crushers/maulers to death
tame lodge
steel veldt
Yes....
The problem of your gun.....
Is your grenade......
That makes sense.....
In the build I meant.
because I keep doing lowest damage
hybrid plover
they at least give you a means of offense to deal with bulwark blockades in havoc
but that is, literally it
and you don't even get enough of them anyway
if you had three kraks to start
honestly I feel they'd be in a somewhat decent spot
and a shorter fuse
cyan verge
by comparison shredders kinda butcher everything else
the fuse is a big problem yes
it is incredibly long
OH BOY! +3 STAMINA- oh.
oh.
cyan verge
honestly I think too that like kraks would probably have their place if they at least had a little bit more of a range
but I have found that even if two crushers are like shoulder to shoulder it only kills one
so it's like really what is the point
the only scenario I see it working is lower difficulties, or perhaps while levelling, lower difficulties with weaker players with not as much carapace damage
which is fine I guess. but yeah, they have not. aged well, basically?
arctic rampart
vet kraks need to be more like ogryn 3x grenade option
cut and paste what the ogryn mini box nades do and lots of vets would take them
long dove
sup everyone
long dove
but I have found that even if two crushers are like shoulder to shoulder it only...
I've killed 2 crushers at once a few times with Kraks but I don't remember on what difficulty
signal garden
its doable on all difficulties
long dove
oh okay
signal garden
the best way imo is if you have a weapon that can stagger them
long dove
but yeah I think Kraks just need a slightly faster detonation time
signal garden
or if they all happen to be doing that thing where theyre all trying to overhead you
and then they meld into each other
ogryn/ VoC can set it up for sure
long dove
yeah
open ravine
who else kinda wishes for the basic ass event helms to return
long dove
?
signal garden
i mean look at it
long dove
I mean it's just a helmet with a Beta symbol on it
signal garden
okay brother
long dove
How about you describe what's wrong with it instead of being a dick?
open ravine
yeah its a boring gift for us early supporters