veteran-class

[signal garden]

Drop a grenade, everything dies and is staggered

Why do you need to underhand and stay in stealth

[hollow ibex]

cuz i'm usually dropping 2 nades

so might as well underhand

[signal garden]

The first nade is a stun

[hybrid plover]

Positioning.

[hollow ibex]

so

?

[signal garden]

The reveal is a stun

The second nade is a stun

If anything you should want to be revealed so more enemies run into you

[hollow ibex]

why wouldn't i drop 2 nades while being invulnerable, instead of opening up a few hundred ms

[signal garden]

So you get more bang for your bang

[hollow ibex]

does

not

matter

[half glade]

1. To pick up somebody downed there who is surrounded. You drop a frag to throw them off while not dropping stealth, and start reviving - it doesn't drop stealth either, until they are revived
2. You see a roadblock, like a bunch of guners and a sniper down a corridor and you know they'll be a problem, you run there, drop nades, and start chopping relying either on agro drop or dmg resist sub-talent (whatever your use)

[hybrid plover]

And besides, again, being able to underhand while in stealth is most likely a deliberate choice and one of the graces that infiltrate actually has.

It's fun being a stealth bomber.

[signal garden]

Sounds unintended by fatshark goofery

[hybrid plover]

...How

[signal garden]

Look at bardin

Look at kerillian

[hybrid plover]

You're discreetly throwing the grenade.

[signal garden]

Look at Kruber

Look at zealot

[half glade]

It sound like under-performing skill which even all those quirks don't help

[signal garden]

100% unintended

[half glade]

do you see tons of stealthy vets breaking Havoc and Auric? I only see ogryns and arbites in that capacity

[hybrid plover]

But its existed since the game began.

[signal garden]

Never has fatshark wanted stealth to not be broken by attack

Hell, it breaks on revive

[hollow ibex]

does zealot lose stealth from underhanded grenades?

[hybrid plover]

It does not.

[hollow ibex]

when you revive someone? you can rez people while stealthed

[signal garden]

@hybrid plover tell me with a straight face that underhanded stealth grenades existed since the game behind

@hollow ibex and what does it do when you pick them up

It reveals you

[hollow ibex]

and at that point, it doesn't matter

[hybrid plover]

Just because it didn't exist in VT2 doesn't mean they didn't intend it to exist here.

[hollow ibex]

because your timer is about to run out anyway

and you've already did what you needed to do

[signal garden]

But its existed since the game began.

Tell me that statement. Is true

[hybrid plover]

It literally is??? That's been a thing since stealth has been in the game at all.

[signal garden]

That's incorrect, it's not about to run out, you can run up to someone, stealth, and res them with seconds to spare

[hollow ibex]

jfc i swear you're just trying to pick fights over the most petty things

[signal garden]

So much for since the game began

[hollow ibex]

go fight with chatgpt or something

[hybrid plover]

Like why are we trying to make infiltrate worse???

[hollow ibex]

don't waste other people's time

pathetic attention seeking behavior

[hybrid plover]

Let people have their bomber builds for crying out loud.

[signal garden]

You're the one getting offended by me saying the grenade should reveal on toss

I'm just saying that's weird that it exists

So reverse uno on you lol

[hybrid plover]

No we're just confused as to the logic of why you think that should be the case.

[signal garden]

Like I said

[hybrid plover]

It doesn't break anything at all.

[half glade]

when it's done yes. and you can only drop grenades so and so much from stealth, it's a finite resource and it takes time to drop them, stealth lasts 8s. And to take the talent you need to sacrifice a lot too. Like, even at that spot, it's not enough to justify taking it, in 99% of cases. I do it while understanding I handicap myself, by playing a fun build

[signal garden]

6 stealth classes, literally anything you do reveals you

[hybrid plover]

It's fun. Let people have it.

[signal garden]

And suddenly you have this one thing that doesn't reveal you

It's fun let people have it

F helbore bayonet from hell

[half glade]

One thing that's probably supposed to make it somewhat viable. And it fails. it needs buffs

[hybrid plover]

Because think of it like this. Underhanding to me, is discretly dropping the grenade.

[signal garden]

F bleed dog missile

F reload on volley fire

[hybrid plover]

Are you really comparing underhanding grenades in stealth

To dog missile???

Nah this is bait.

This is over.

[signal garden]

Ok it's over because you said so, got it, design bureau master chief of fatshark over here

[half glade]

also, pushes don't drop stealth either. I.e. as I see it, that's intended features to allow vet to get through a crowd when needed, to do what he is supposed to do, to capitalize on his extended mobility

[signal garden]

The fact that I suggested it's unintended and that's what I'm getting the most pushback on is what's bizarre

Like, you were the one asking if there's a way to drop the "necessary double grenade" and I'm here saying all the factors are in place to make it safe to do natty

IF you fail to stagger everything, IF you're somehow still surrounded, IF you don't have stealth banked you might take damage

And you're all like nah nah nah i just drop them from stealth

[half glade]

Because it's highly unlikely, the skill is crap, if you remove this from it it will be completely useless for any combat application. And there is a good reason why it could be an intended behavior - stealthy builds are about moving around unrestrained, to do that you often need to move through a crowd, so pushes and clearing your way with underhand (short range) throw not droping stealth blends ideally into this concept

[signal garden]

And I'm like well that doesn't sound right because fatshark has been designing stealth characters for years and suddenly I'm a troll

But here's the thing

Prople already think it's useless

[hybrid plover]

Honesty you started trolling when you mentioned dog missile.

[signal garden]

In the most heavily taxed tree in the gsme

[hybrid plover]

That. Was unintended and severely broke the game to the point where it was nigh unplayable.

[signal garden]

I wonder how many other things were unintended

A stealth nade here, an "early h40 is nothing like a modern h40"

Your argument isn't very valid

[normal bay]

It annoys me so fucking much that Heavy sword can one shot dreg ragers but not scabs

[signal garden]

Because darktide is practically unintended stuff rverywhere

[half glade]

What's your point though? It can be buffed and become more useful, like many other things before. There is nothing wrong with the playstyle itself, it's fun and a lot of people enjoy stealthy builds in games

[signal garden]

@normal bay the good news (sort of) is vet has some brittleness/innate rending

[ember nest]

why would underhanded grenades be unintended with bardin in mind

[signal garden]

My point? At what point do you absolutely need stealth to safely drop two grenades

@ember nest bardin actually did reveal though, it's just that the stealth was reapplied

[normal bay]

That... Doesn't solve my issue

[ember nest]

bardin can just straight up melee shit while in his cloud

[signal garden]

That was deliberate, and more importantly a unique way to generate and break aggro

I'm here responding to the completely farcical statement that you "need to stay stealthed so that 2 grenades can safely be dropped" as if there isn't any stun bring generated by the nade blast to begin with

[half glade]

You drop them as part of bigger thing, you don't go into stealth just for that. Sometimes you do, like if you're pressed hard, it will take agro from you and restore your toughness. You also need a few seconds to do the throws - and you won't have those if you are already surrounded by hoard.

[signal garden]

Or the fictional case of "I'm deep inside a horde"

[half glade]

But in most cases it's a part of a bigger plan, I described two usecases I use it in most above

[hybrid plover]

So then, if that's the case... Why wouldn't this be intended?

I dunno man, it makes sense. You're basically trading throwing range for the utility of keeping stealth up during the throw.

[signal garden]

I'm saying the underhand doesn't make a difference with or withoht stealth

[half glade]

Here

[signal garden]

Point 1 can be addressed without stealth if you aren't getting shot at

[hybrid plover]

Otherwise, in many cases, why would you even underhand a grenade. There are so little reasons to actually do that otherwise.

[signal garden]

And if you are getting shot at, that's more an issue of where someone was when they went down

[hollow ibex]

are we still arguing about this

[half glade]

Theorycrafting and putting blame on each other won't save your mission. Stealth and underhand nades, then revive - will

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/chinchilla836-gif-16589048905580572153

[fathom umbra]

whats the dump for plasma gun

[signal garden]

In theory underhanded grenades are unintended

[hollow ibex]

@tired egret

[signal garden]

@fathom umbra ever since they fixed the UNINTENDED charge scaling, probably charge speed

Although you can make a case for thermal resistance I'm sure

The shot comes out faster for charge speed

[half glade]

I see how all of those features clearly work together to a single goal of allowing stealthy vet to traverse the field freely and do things others cant, so I beg to differ

[signal garden]

That just sounds like zealot with extra cheekier steps

The alternative is voice of command which allows the team to push forward, as a team

[half glade]

many things on different classes sound like that lol, a lot of mechanics are redundant, or differ in a couple little things.

[signal garden]

And as a vet stealth enjoyer/preferrer, I don't need some scummy ass stealth attack to justify my use of stealth

[half glade]

still, it's good to have choices. some people like certain flavors more

[signal garden]

@half glade yeah like Heatseeking blood hounds

[half glade]

that's simply a marketing gimmick to sell a DLC

[tame lodge]

Krb

[half glade]

sorry, it's late out there and I think poorly lol

but yea, Voice of Command effectively trumps everything else, as I said. Like, no good reason to even choose ES over it, except because you have more fun shooting things

[signal garden]

you kknow what the gam really needs

[half glade]

in that light, trying to blame Infiltrate for being cheesy is.. lol

[signal garden]

a new slot

the grenade slot

give me some blessings, give me some stat rolls

give people more stupid albeit cool stuff to argue over

because its very weird how many things grenades scale off of with no gear stat to affect it

i would for instance trade 11 charges of dagger for an AP hurling hatchet

or a bulwark breaking throwing hammer

[half glade]

It needs full rework of its gear and reward system. If you get everything at 150-200hrs of playing it and have resources just collecting dust, and missions you do give you nothing to look forward for (better gear, rare stuff etc) - something is broken

like, what's the matter with secondary objectives lol? there is only one of those, and it's so shitty rewarded nobody ever does it

[signal garden]

but we're due for a new weapon111!!!

fatshark said so!

[half glade]

and with the current system there is little they can do, like, what possibly could be an incentive for people at Damnation+ difficulties, where you can sometimes barely finish the main task, to do one extra? When they already have all weapons maxed out, outfits purchased, millions of money and thouthands of plasteel and diamantine they can't spend on anything anyway?

[frigid shuttle]

challenge.

[half glade]

well, it doesn't seem to work like that, then. nobody except newbies tries to collect the scriptures

[plain osprey]

I recently had havoc 40 and ASS guys voluntarily collect both grimmoires on magistrati oubliette high int shock troop gauntlet on auric damnation

I played psyker and its a miracle i didnt die

[half glade]

And I saw somebody collecting them may be a few times in 200hrs of play

Actually, there is a thread on FS or Steam forum where OP hates people collecting them because it corrupts the whole squad lol

Here: https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/grimoire-clowns/111265/3

[plain osprey]

I never wrote a piece but i am in the same boat as him

[half glade]

Well, the main reason for the hate is that they are completely useless for people playing at these difficulties. Seeking more challenge is fine, but people still like to be rewarded for more effort put in, it's like a basic psychology thing. If they are not, they feel cheated

I actually think this is the main reason why so little people play havoc

not the absence of quick play, I never had issue finding some squad that let me in

[plain osprey]

I always feel robbed of my health pool when someone picks it up. As arbys, oggy or zel i can usually bear one but on vet and psyker i basically suffer y especially with two

[calm shard]

alas the new players don't know to instantly reroll that god awful melk quest

[steep flower]

What does collecting grims has to do with havoc? Da fuc

[half glade]

I mean, the reward problem. Both doing Havoc missions and collecting them adds challenge - but there is no reward that would justify it in the eyes of an average player. So people prefer to not do them

[marble mantle]

There any standout melees to pair with helbore? Or is it just wielders pick

I been using taxe but mostly just because it fits the Hunter vibe I got goin on

[steep flower]

Actually on the contrary; average player wants to do havoc cause each week it gives alot of resources you need to upgrade your arsenal; even if the havoc is like up to 25 one can do it & get extra benefits

[half glade]

When an average player evolves enough to do Havoc missions, they don't really need those resources anymore

[marble mantle]

Cap

[half glade]

or they don't need them enough to justify that extra challenge and additional hassle of setting up a game

[marble mantle]

I’m consistently broke as fuck

[steep flower]

And to clarify; ‘average player’ does not clear H40 regularly (quite confident on that)

[half glade]

You still need more players interested in a certain mode in the first place, to produce more players that are capable to go to higher levels. I.e. to have 10 at lv40 you need 100 playing in lv10 - even though 50 of them will forever stay at low lv, 40 will be stuck at mid. But without those 100 below, you won't have much people on top.

[steep flower]

Mah guy; if only you would know… there are ppl who play high lv havocs or even 40s each week to get a massive boost for resource acquisition; after all you have 5 classes and inventory is not shared

[half glade]

I don't know why, because I had 2mils of credit until recently, when I dropped them on some stupid experiments with gear which I didn't really need, I just was bored. And I have 30k plasteel. Diamantine being an issue though, from time to time, as I sometimes start upgrading some random weapons for no reason at all, just because I don't need the resources anyway, so why not create two more double barrels with different dump stats? But then again, I don't really need any of that, in no way it justifies making my games harder. Sometimes I do that voluntarily just for the sake of it - but rarely.

I have no idea why anybody would deliberately do some havoc farm, those resources are useless

[hollow ibex]

tbf dia and plasteel is very valuable for a very long time

[hearty panther]

and if you're like, fucken good at the game, doing one havoc a week is really nothing

it might take you a day, but if you are already gonna play and you still needed resources, it's probably the best

[half glade]

That "if" is a big if, though. Unless you are a no-lifer like me who can sit for hours in psykarium trying different stuff just because curious, in about 150-200hrs you'll have all classes with more or less maxed gear. Not necearriyl you'll have best curious, but it will be good enough. Not all weapons maxed - but you don't need them all, only those you actually enjoy to play with

[steep flower]

So useless yet you still play & collect everything, either yourself or by proxy - since you have everything why you even play? Go play damnation, heresy, malice or uprising even - after all challenge & reward system ain’t good in your eyes so what gives?

[half glade]

and I did it all by mostly playing core game, I played may be a dozen havoc runs so far. you don't need havoc for that

to hell, I almost haven't played auric even lol

[half glade]

because I'm bored and has nothing better to do. like fr, I should have been doing tons of other stuff instead of dumping time like that

[steep flower]

I farmed all for all classes lmao so i could have choices to make more than like 2 builds

[steep flower]

Well now that you noticed it yourself; time to take action & stop playing darktide - go do whatever you think is best; i’m dead serious

[hearty panther]

resources was deffo a bitch before they pooled the wallets

i still dont play much ogryn but i played EXCEEDINGLY little in the past because i'd have so little on them and nothing to really try out

[half glade]

It's not enough incentive for an average player, though. Would havoc offer wide selection of unique outfits, higher gear tiers, new items, weapons mods - so, unique stuff that brings refreshing experience, people would come. But just to have more dump resources you can farm in damnation all day long? nope

[hearty panther]

im not the norm tho

yeah odds are if you can reasonably crush havoc 40s on any given class, you're done with the resource game

but some people are fucken relentless with the 'perfect' that they want from a weapon

and perhaps they demolished all their resources in the old gamble machine system

[steep flower]

Tbh i did not had min max gear when i was doing H40 regularly; still was not perfect and many ppl still don’t so nah

[steep flower]

Blame Tencent then

[steep flower]

Do not remind me of that; still have nightmares

[sonic kayak]

Me too

[hearty panther]

i by no means loved the old system but people were embarrasingly self-restrictive around it

[half glade]

Sure, but that's not "average player" at all. an average dude, even playing a game with challenge as a theme, will be satisfied with what he needs, instead of maxing out everything.

[hearty panther]

like no, actually, the fact your power sword rolled with 70 mobility is not why you are having trouble in heresy

[half glade]

how are they invovled here?

[hearty panther]

yea the majority of people are just hanging out in the game and taking things as they come. it's the 'online' community that gets ... special.

[sonic kayak]

Which one?

[hearty panther]

aaaallll of them

[sonic kayak]

That includes me, wrong answer

[steep flower]

Its nice to have a melee that can keep the chaf & armor away but since helly ain’t a boss killer weapon nor carapace killer (exept Mk IV) its slightly harder to get a melee that could fit all the criteria. Taxe is a nice defensive weapon, always was so its a nice choice; could try shovels and shock mauls

[steep flower]

They own fatshark to a degree

[half glade]

And how are they responsible for Havoc not offering much interesting stuff to lure people in?

[steep flower]

Ppl max out gear out of availability cause of all the resource amass

[steep flower]

Money

[sonic kayak]

Thanks, don't mind if I do

[half glade]

yea, but they'll amass no matter what you do, my first million was there before I even tried damnation I think. Never during this time I was thinking "that mission was living hell, I barely made it, wasn't fun at all - let me make the next one even harder so that I could collect more of that precious plasteel". Never even crossed my mind lol

but would it be about some really cool outfit - I would be considering it

[steep flower]

Its also lack of info from fatshark like you dunno what amount you will be getting for completing a week of havoc (apart from penances ofc)

[steep flower]

Also if we put this up; 2 million ordo dockets is nothing if you wanna have even some max lv gear so you gotta get as much as you can and havoc offers that; i’ve meet many ppl who did only 1 H40 a week just to get the reward box so yeah; even if its just 1 game it is still enticing for average joe to play it

[half glade]

sure, I do low lv (10-15lv) havoc occasionally to pick up a couple thousands diamantine it provides, just in case, because it's not that harder than doing Damnation. And it's enough for all my needs at that point. But why go higher, except for laughs sometimes? no answer, for me. In high lv havoc I'll have to deal with achievers and their toxicity, will have to play some meta builds to be allowed on the team. Why go through it when I can instead play 3-4 games in Damnation however I like and have about the same reward. Or lower, but who cares, I'm not in a hurry

[steep flower]

When arby came out i had over 7 million ordo coins and lemme tell ya it was not enough

[sonic kayak]

To raise your skill ceiling and bragging rights? The same as most end game content?

You do it to push yourself, nothing more

For people, the title is enough, for others, the challenge of high Havoc is enough, and for the rest, no one really cares and does it because it's simply part of the game with no extra thought spared

[hybrid plover]

It's crazy how there are people with true survivor, already unlocked assignment rank 40 and all, and they'll still be toxic as hell for no reason at all

Had an arby like that yesterday.

[steep flower]

Not all are toxic as you state; some are willing to teach, guide & show. Thats what this LFG was created for

[hybrid plover]

And it's funny because they blamed everyone but I can actively see in the scoreboard and the fact that they went up ahead and got slammed by an overhead tells me they were the weakest link in that whole game so

[sonic kayak]

Was doing a H40 a few days ago, H40 clearance 4 wound Zealot

[steep flower]

Oi Shovel! What time is it for ya now?

[sonic kayak]

He was the first one to fold each time

[hybrid plover]

6:10

And working 😔

[hearty panther]

the secret is to hit 40 and then you can do w/e the fuck you want

[steep flower]

Pm i pressume

[hybrid plover]

Yuh.

[steep flower]

3.10 am

[half glade]

and how much people do you think will ever be interested in a much more challenging mode just because of some internet fame? 🙂

[steep flower]

More than you can imagine

[half glade]

with some cool outfits, new game mechanics and such - much much more

[sonic kayak]

Let's see, how many people play Overwatch or Marvel Rivals?

Or TF2?

[steep flower]

CS

[half glade]

Yea, assessment fully supported by popularity of the mode 😄

[sonic kayak]

Playing competitive or even casual nets you exactly nothing, it's all brownie points

Hell, you can even look cool doing it, still nothing

[steep flower]

By the challenge it provides yes; its the end game content after all

[hybrid plover]

Aaaaaaaaaaaa

Also

[steep flower]

I play H40 for fun really & for ocasionally teaching fresh ones or helping others climb up; thats how also the gamemode survives; by ppl who dedicate their time & skills to help others & have fun in the challenge

[hybrid plover]

Havoc 40 is so stupidly chaotic that it triggers the dopamine levels in a way auric can't for me in a lot of cases

Especially with how power crept Auric has gotten.

[half glade]

I don't play that much online games, sure - but I play Guild Wars 2 for example, and endgame content there - raids, strikes and fractals - provide tons of extra incentive beside being challenging. Like, unique outfits, resources for crafting things otherwise hard to gather, drops of much better armor you can't as easily get in the base game etc. And ofc all those modes feature totally new, unique maps with unique foes and mechanics in there. I think it hugely affects their popularity, comparing to popularity of havoc within DT community

[steep flower]

Same; to me auric usually is too timid

[sonic kayak]

Imagine a world where Darktide has functioning servers and the game does not eat your inputs

[sonic kayak]

But that suits that particular game with the need for all of those different resources, this game is way much more streamlined for better or worse

You get Dockets, Plasteel, Diamatine (and Melkbucks, but that's a different story)

Everything gives you that

Go higher, you get more

Not much else to it

[steep flower]

If we compare wildly different games like that to each other then ofc; but this is DT and we have this and ppl who like the game & its endgame will try to keep it alive & help others get into it even if its just lv 15 in your case

And that is ok

[half glade]

People are people, regardless of game. If you pay for an extra work with only more work, you'll have times less those who are interested, compared to when you actually reward them with a lot of stuff, so everybody can choose something they like.

[sonic kayak]

If anything, they should find a way to make these higher echelons of content more engaging beyond just number spam IMO, that totem event was awesome

[marble mantle]

I played havoc 40 once just for the penance. I’ll do 35-39 at some point for the sake of true survivor. Then I will never do high havoc again. I just don’t be enjoying it tbh. Maybe that’ll change but idk

[steep flower]

Milk coins

[steep flower]

If you need True Survivor i can guide ya

[sonic kayak]

People are people, regardless of game, this is correct. With that being said, gamers will do whatever they want to get to the upper echelons of whatever game they play to show their superiority over others, regardless of what type of game. Even L4D2 has this, and even that game has nothing beyond "more enemies and enemies do more damage" and that's even MORE beloved

[marble mantle]

Wdym?

[sonic kayak]

People play these things because they can, nothing more

Reward someone with a title to give the sense of exclusivity? Well hot diggity

[marble mantle]

I mean I could use all the help I could get. I’m pretty average at this game.

[sonic kayak]

Obviously "bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch" is in effect here, but the point still remains

People will push for the higher level stuff just because

Even if it gives them no real tangible reward

[hybrid plover]

It isn't for everyone. And that's fine.

But there's something special about winning a 40 honestly.

[marble mantle]

I hate feeling like something is unachievable so I’ll put myself out of my comfort zone to achieve it

[sonic kayak]

Again, TF2, CS, OW, Rivals, I think even Fortnite (I don't play it idk)

[marble mantle]

It bugs my ocd to not be able to reach everything

[hybrid plover]

And the fact that havoc really is where you genuinely have to work your ass off as a team.

[sonic kayak]

All these popular games that give you nothing for being the best besides brownie points

[marble mantle]

I appreciate that about it.

[marble mantle]

Gotta respect the grind

[hybrid plover]

There is a true zen when you get that team that's cohesive and everyone's pulling their weight

And the funny thing is, it's also usually those games where you get the most chill players.

And people want to talk and joke around.

Barring my experience with that arby yesterday....

[sonic kayak]

True, had that back in Havoc 1.0

Made a few friends from those chill lobbies

~~ngl people always send me FRs and I accept but never remember who they are if I don't speak to them regularly ~~

[marble mantle]

Honestly high havoc is one of the reasons why I decided I wanted to play more vet. That and they have more weapon variety than Ogryn.

[steep flower]

As in i can help you

[marble mantle]

Oh sweet.

[steep flower]

You’re preaching stop

[sonic kayak]

The worst is when you have that but the game just shits on you

@half glade btw I would like to mention I'm not arguing in the defense of Havoc, I'm just saying the power of free will, but really just brownie points, should not be underestimated; Havoc is a shitshow honestly and the amount of issues because of Havoc is just absurd, but this is Fatshark so it's to be expected at this point

[quick burrow]

is this the shovel of destiny ?

[sonic kayak]

Go my son, go kill heretics

[half glade]

I don't deny for some people it's enough, that's objectively true, there are people playing havoc and going to its top rn. But it won't ever be popular mode unless is properly "gamified"

what is a strange thing to ask from a game, lol

[sonic kayak]

IMO the problem with Havoc, like most of this game, is the community itself

Toxicity begets toxicity and people make the game harder for no reason because of their inability or lack of willingness to be flexible and either learn or teach where there is lack

[quick burrow]

what perks for rashad combat axe?

[sonic kayak]

It's clunky, and using Party Finder is annoying, but, that is what we have and thus what we need to work with; Anything else is on the user

[quick burrow]

unarmored/flak ?

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-christian-bale-business-gif-13484994

It even has unarmored infested

[tame lodge]

Truly a horde clear boost on a weapon that can't really horde clear

[tame lodge]

Last time I checked it was Unarmored Carapace

[quick burrow]

its my new every day shovel to go with my new helbore

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/shaquille-o-neal-kiss-wink-gif-11005405

[hybrid plover]

Then you just laugh.

Look I've accepted that not all 40s are gonna be w's

The ai director doesn't care how well you're doing. It will get it's way. I've learned to just enjoy the fact that the game has to throw some of the most ludicrous shit possible to actually take me down.

Or sometimes you just get caught off guard by a gunner you didnt see.

One death I had was when we got sandwiched in Dark Communion and I got thrown by a mutant into a lunging pox burster that depleted my golden toughness, and then that propelled me into another lunging pox burster going for my teammate which instantly killed me.

[marble mantle]

Why is taxe considered defensive? Just because it has high mobility?

[tame lodge]

High stagger as well

[marble mantle]

Ahh yeah it does have that

[tame lodge]

Push Attack
Heavy
Special attack

They all can knock rager out of their combo

But if you ask me

Taxe still shit

So you might ask for a second opinion

[marble mantle]

What weapon would you run with helbore?

[tame lodge]

Helbore can cover carapace and unyielding damage
So it opens heavy sword as an option

[marble mantle]

I don’t think I have literally ever used heavy sword.

[tame lodge]

And heavy sword is pretty good against anything that isn't Carapace

The popular pick is mk9

H1 is your main single target damage

You can loop back to it if you use your special attack

The special attack can knock ragers out of the combo

H2 and H3 will loop themselves so you use those for hordes

L1 h2 h3 is a horde starter

[marble mantle]

Seems like a good weapon, albeit a little boring

Maybe I won’t feel that way in game

I took it into meat grinder, feels good

Just simple

Helbore makes me wanna run exe stance

But voc just, better for havoc

Hard to not pick

[past stratus]

We have some Exe stance enthusiasts here that vouch on it in havoc 40

[hybrid plover]

I mean, it's amazing for damage tbf

Just that it does nothing for survivability which is where vet suffers.

[quick burrow]

whats the best devil claw mark ?

[hearty panther]

7 or 4.

No idea what they did with the 1, haven't gotten around to it.

[tame lodge]

They put a heavy strikedown behind a push

Feels a bit odd but it exists

[marble mantle]

Hmmmmm idk how I feel about heavy sword quite yet. Maybe bc it’s still white, but idk

[hollow ibex]

gonna be pretty bad until it's maxed out

[tame lodge]

Oh yeah you should definitely get Deathblow asap

Deathblow, not Chained Deathblow

[marble mantle]

Hmmmm word

Fuck it’s got Headtaker

No wonder it’s so good lmfao

[tidal vault]

i was told that wound curios are a safety net

is that true or not, im not very experienced in this matter but i assume they suck

[tame lodge]

Yes they suck

It's ok to use them if you're learning

But you should just get away from them asap

[tidal vault]

ok im way past using them honestly

[tame lodge]

The only exception is Zealots Martyrdom build

[tidal vault]

they are a safety net but safety nets are useless if you play the difficulties that throw trains at you

which is basically anything above damnation

[hollow ibex]

it's got better headtaker*

for whatever reason, gets a different version of headtaker

that's better than normal headtaker

[tidal vault]

im a veteran dude

[hollow ibex]

and gets a different version of brumentum

though it's just a rename

what was changed?

i just realized, haven't tried the other ones

that's not a thing on the mk9?

only for the 6 and 7?

dafuq

[tame lodge]

It is

On the H1

It's a thing on both heavies of 6 and 7

[tidal vault]

i just have 1 stamina curios (3+ stamina), 1 17% toughness and 1 20% max health, i just assume this is generally good

i made my build on this website named gameslantern just incase i accidentally click the reset all button on my skill tree

duly noted

[tame lodge]

I have no idea how I hit both bodies on this last one

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

And yeah I know I'm just a tiny little damage away from one shot ragers

It's just that I'm not running Deathblow here

Nor Headtaker

If I was using deathblow then I had to get 5 targets

Since the 5th target would take second target damage, and the second target damage is the same as the first on the heavies Strikedowns of Deathblow

You'd kill 5 ragers per swing

Isn't that crazy

Do I even have the angle for that

[narrow frost]

2

[barren cave]

what are the advantages of the other hswords compared to mk9

[marble mantle]

Wish you got materials when you dismantled an item, not just dockets

[barren cave]

you do get materials I think

if what you dismantle is sufficiently levelled

[marble mantle]

Since hwhen

[barren cave]

im pretty sure ive got diamantine and plasteel from dismantling some mission rewards

[barren cave]

is that hsword 9

is that the best one

is there a hsword that does what 9 does but for horde clear instead

[tame lodge]

Wdym by "what 9 does"?

All Hsword

With their heavy Strikedowns

Deal first target damage to 2 targets

[barren cave]

oh they all have a heavy strikedown?

[tame lodge]

Mk6 and 7 both heavies are Strikedowns

[barren cave]

is there a hsword thats really good for horde clear

[tame lodge]

Mk9 only heavy 1 is

That's heavy sword

[quick burrow]

why do people like out for blood instead of confirmed kill

[tame lodge]

Heavy sword is good for hordes

[barren cave]

because im using mk9 and the other two arent worse than it right?

[tame lodge]

Not really

[barren cave]

like all the hswords are equal?

[tame lodge]

Not really

[barren cave]

so which is good for what?

[tame lodge]

They are all good for hordes and anything that isn't Carapace

Mk6 and 7 heavies have a weird angle

So getting full value of deathblow is a bit tricky

[barren cave]

yeah I think they have semi diagonal slash

[tame lodge]

However their lights have a different cleave damage distribution than the mk9

And mk9 has heavy 2 and 3 which have good angles for Deathblow

[barren cave]

when I use mk9, I just loop h1 and special

that works nicely, but its kinda boring

[marble mantle]

Yeah I’m gonna try the sapper shovel. Just don’t think heavy sword is for me. Gave it a fair shake

[tame lodge]

Mk6 L1 L2
Mk7 L2 l3

Those lights go

1st target
Cdd
2nd
3rd
Cdd
4th
5th
Cdd
Minimum

[marble mantle]

Also thinking of swapping to mark 5 helbore, any reason I shouldn’t?

[marble mantle]

So, yay 5?

[tame lodge]

It's usable
As you can see on the pictures above, a bee's dick Away from killing the targets

[marble mantle]

Oh I couldn’t tell thats what it meant lol

I’m just watching some guy use it in havoc 40 and it looks pretty satisfying 😅

With hot shot that is

I could run hot shot on 4 but the charge is high key kinda slow without wof

So that would mean losing survival

Surgical

[tame lodge]

Mk5 does have the fastest charge

[marble mantle]

Yeah that’s kinda why I was lookin at it

[tame lodge]

Well go for it

Lemme be the conscious enabler

https://tenor.com/view/freaky-freaky-smile-sukuna-sukuna-smile-freaky-sukuna-gif-4852549280133734300

[marble mantle]

Thankth

[tame lodge]

Bummer
The initial parry part of claw does not apply Skrusher

Oh

https://tenor.com/view/but-i-have-a-idea-gif-3847372685512425998

Vicious Thunder

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-gif-7931397507241457912

What's the cleave on this fuck ass parry again

8?

Nah it can't be

[marble mantle]

Okay so I’m actually really liking helbore 5
That being said, on controller, it’s a bit of a bear to keep marking with focus target when I’m basically semi full auto firing helbore

[hybrid plover]

it's painful how prominent the rumbler's become in auric

[marble mantle]

Tell me abt it

[hybrid plover]

i just want to play the game for the love of god

[marble mantle]

It’s a bit annoying

Yeah

[hybrid plover]

cannot wait until that thing gets the nerf hammer because it desperately needs it

[marble mantle]

How we feel about marksman focus

[hybrid plover]

eh...

ironically

[marble mantle]

Feel like it would be good with helbore 5

[hybrid plover]

you wanna use it with faster firing weapons

but overall the other two keystones are just

[marble mantle]

Makes sense

[hybrid plover]

better

[marble mantle]

Alas focus target stays

I just want to see if I can cater my tree any more to fine tune my weapons or if I’m already done with my tree

Also how the hell does exe stance still not reload ranged

[compact oracle]

because vet players are meant to suffer

[marble mantle]

I would take exe stance if I thought I would survive

[calm shard]

very high damage boost

pain in the ass to upkeep

far better for taking down multiple targets than FT but also only works on your gun

[marble mantle]

Yeah that one makes it tough.

Like idk if there are any melee that I trust enough on vet. I don’t really like power sword or heavy sword. I guess I could do dueling sword.

And taxe is still an option

[junior grail]

What is a good keystone for Helbore?

[tame lodge]

Focus Target

Mmf is mad funny though

[unreal bone]

What dump stat y'all prefer for chainaxe

[marble mantle]

Why is the plasma dump stat so weird in the doc

[unreal bone]

Because of the way plasma functions

[marble mantle]

Probably defenses

[unreal bone]

It doesn't have an 80/60 like every other gun

For people who want to minmax plasma gun you want just enough thermal resistance to allow for X amount of charged shots

then the rest into charge speed

or is it the other way? Anyways idk but you get the idea. Since it has 2 firing modes if you wanna minmax you need to hit the how many charged shots can you fit breakpoint

[calm shard]

MMF and Focus Target

MMF Helbore one shots Crushers xd

[hollow ibex]

FT can one shot crushers too

i've tried WS

it's kinda weird with helbore

still janky

[calm shard]

@tired egret

[unreal bone]

Shout or bust for vet 🗣️

[fervent citrus]

can the recon lasgun work with the laspistol build

are they interchangeable

[unreal nova]

More, you want 8 quick shots with the min amount of thermal. 68 with luck or 69 guaranteed. Rest into charge rate for making it fire faster.

[fervent citrus]

seriously id like to know if they're interchangeable lol

[narrow frost]

@stone zealot

vet moment

[unreal bone]

Yeah whatever the combo was I couldn't remember

personally I just run 80/60 I really can't be bothered.

[unreal nova]

As said before, is fine, just dump thermal.

[unreal bone]

Yeah

[unreal nova]

If you don't feel like minmaxxing.

[unreal bone]

That's what I do

It's not that I don't feel like minmaxxing, I just think specifically the plasma gun minmax is annoying.

[unreal nova]

Only in high havocs where the extra shot might make or break.

[unreal bone]

Even then I still didn't fuck with it and still did fine.

If you're at the point in a havoc where a singular plasma shot is between you and failing, then there might be bigger problems. IMO

6 more havocs till I can finish my custom krieg outfit

[unreal nova]

I mean, anything can work, it's a test of skill after all.

[unreal bone]

Well yes, until havoc just decides to spit in your face

Sometimes havoc is just unwinnable

[unreal nova]

That's where you want the extra shot to hopefully clear another line. XD

And pray the oggy kills the bosses.

[unreal bone]

No it ain't the line parts

it's the woe 5 bosses on one trigger be apon ye

[unreal nova]

Oh, THAT.

[unreal bone]

Yeah that happens to me like

75% of the time

[unreal nova]

Pray you have 2 boss clears. XD

[unreal bone]

It's not enough sometimes

when it's twins and champ with monsters

[unreal nova]

True. It can be just bs because director said so.

[calm shard]

Nah just me

And a Chaos Spawn jams me into a corner within 5 seconds of engaging the group

And I die

[unreal nova]

And it refuses to reaggro to the tauntgryn anyway.

[calm shard]

yeah

stupid fucking enemy

I hope they get nerfed into the ground som day

[unreal bone]

Real

like right now for example lol

Woe karnak twins, weakened plague ogryn, and encroaching garden buffed admonition champion be apon ye

So the plasma pistol sword captain is healing all of the bosses and mobs around it

Oh did I mention they're all rampaging too

[hollow ibex]

this really shouldn't be a thing lol

[unreal bone]

Yeah well tell me about it

Fartshart have had how many games to master balancing

and they still suck absolute ass at it

You know what else shouldn't be a thing?>

The pay 2 win Helbore skin is a shop exclusive item that almost never rotates back in

[calm shard]

Peopl really exaggerate the effect of that skin

[unreal bone]

The one helbore skin that costs money but has actual decent iron sights

[unreal nova]

FS pay2win skin lul.

[unreal bone]

No dude it's so good

[unreal bone]

Have you seen the Legacy of Vraks helbore skin

[calm shard]

I actually used it in weapon customization before it came out and its irons are uh

[unreal nova]

On vids, yes, actually no.

[calm shard]

Not much better than Mk IV irons

[unreal bone]

I've used it in the same mod

it's so nice

[calm shard]

It makes very little difference

[unreal nova]

5% better is 5% better.

[calm shard]

But then I use autogun sights for my helbore now

Haven't used their default irons in a long ass time

[unreal nova]

Is like Bistol sights.

[calm shard]

Should probably go back and do that to set a good example for the young'uns when I post helbore clips

[unreal bone]

oh my bad he's got a shotgun but oh boy

I try helping people with their lower level havocs and somehow it's the most asinine shit ever

[unreal bone]

It's so good

Encroaching garden admonition champion which is aoe healing everything around it along with a weakened plague ogryn that is taking reduced damage from rampaging enemies while being healed

:hellnaw:

[unreal nova]

I don't hellbore anyway.

[unreal bone]

I'm torn between Plasma, Helbore, or Bolt Pistol

I only like bolt pistol because lethal prox

[barren cave]

bistol is my bae

[calm shard]

or intentionally use MkV helbore's dogass sights to make a point

[barren cave]

its so easy to use

[calm shard]

decisions

[barren cave]

and its fast

[unreal bone]

Yeah bpistol is nice ish

If it didn't have lethal prox

I'd not use it

but increasing the size of shredder frags is fun

Anyways looks like I'm not getting my havoc chest tonight

that 20 or 25 minute havoc run just to get shit on by the game director really makes me once again not wanna play xd

[barren cave]

tbh

i dont like how you cant rejoin havoc games

[unreal bone]

Yeah that's ass too

I was at the end of my own personal havoc 31 mission

and got right to the end > crash

[barren cave]

yep

even random disconnects

you do all that work and not only do you not get to finish the mission, you get 0 rewards

afaik

[unreal bone]

Wrong

You don't get 0 rewards

You actually LOSE shit

[barren cave]

oh yeah that too

[unreal bone]

You get less than zero rewards

You get fucked

[barren cave]

they should let us rejoin havoc games, its not like they cant enable it

and its not like havoc rank is some uber competitive thing

[fervent citrus]

it feels like it could if i get infernus/dumdum on it again

it really does

[unreal nova]

I just use it to the point I can just use it to gasgasgas on Arby.

[unreal bone]

One last havoc run

surely this one wont be complete ass like the last

I just want my havoc chest so I can literally never touch this dogshit mode again

[unreal nova]

Honestly, if they ever fix it, that gun won't be picked up unless decently buffed.

[unreal bone]

Honestly they should not fix it

It's fun mechanic between class nades and a gun.

A weapon that actually buffs your class is nice

[unreal nova]

It's more funni overkill big than anything. Has uses in havoc, but we really shouldn't base anything on it.

[unreal bone]

The havoc run already died

https://tenor.com/view/cat-share-this-cat-if-you-already-lost-your-mind-insane-lost-your-mind-share-this-gif-11044010788421076558

Second veteran ran up and got folded by a double boss horde spawn

on one trigger

[unreal nova]

Lul.

[grand perch]

its funny actually

when you post helbore clips (and to a lesser extent, other weapons) with the holo sight on it, there's going to be a bunch of comments asking how you got that on

if you use other iron sights, 0 comments. they dont even notice

even though theyre clearly not the default

[unreal bone]

3 bosses and a horde on an unavoidable trigger

Dude it's havoc 20 game

[unreal bone]

It's not my havoc assignment so I don't lose anything other than my time

God I can't wait to get my havoc chest armor in 6 more missions I am geuinely never playing this dogshit mode again lol

How are you going to design your UI to only support 2 boss healthbars but spawn upwards of 3 to 5 at once.

Very inconvenient when one of those fucking bosses is a hexbound daemonhost that you can't see.

[calm shard]

I dunno same reason buff bar only supports up to 10

[fervent citrus]

holy shit i finally got my godroll combat blade

and honestly i dont even know if it would be a good idea to use it instead of the power sword lmfao

[little path]

knife is very strong

requires way more effort though

[kind bison]

Yeah how do you use it

[fervent citrus]

now all i need is the dueling sword roll and i have it all on my vet

[barren cave]

i suck at using knife too tbh

although i find it much easier to use on zealot

[fervent citrus]

uh other than that meanwhile ive been struggling on my ideal ranged wep for zealot

[barren cave]

agri shotgun

[fervent citrus]

alongside relic and i havent gotten answers lmao

[barren cave]

or bolt pistol

or really..any of the good ones, bolter, flamer

personally i like bolt pistol or agri shotgun

[fervent citrus]

currently i have the flamer, boltgun and agri shotgun

[little path]

best zealot guns are flamer, bolter, shotgun, revolver

[fervent citrus]

THE REVOLER?

[little path]

some of the autoguns are fine

yeah the revolver is strong

[barren cave]

revolver is great

[little path]

only issue it has it that it doesn't scale into havoc

[barren cave]

i used to use revolver before bolt pistol came out

[little path]

but a lot of things don't

[fervent citrus]

it sounds like at that point, use the bolt pistol

[little path]

revolver does more damage

[hybrid plover]

only thing that truly scales well for havoc on zealot in terms of ranged is flamer

because infinite cleave and dot buildup

i think the second best tbh is agri shotgun

[little path]

ye

[hybrid plover]

no respite is a huge buff when you can stagger

[little path]

doesn't do well against carapace but like

you're zealot

just bash them in the head

[fervent citrus]

i mean yeah the relic blade kinda does everything else

got a crowd? slash

got a specialist? stab

armored? stab

ogryn? stab

boss? stab

it's kind of nuts

[hybrid plover]

me using the mark that doesn't actually stab

[fervent citrus]

well idfk im stuck with the mkX

[hybrid plover]

stuck?

[fervent citrus]

i assume that's the better one because of the fuckin strikedown heavy

[fervent citrus]

mastery

[hybrid plover]

you can change the mark you know?

[fervent citrus]

i cant without enough mastery

[hybrid plover]

...wat

[fervent citrus]

i havent been on this game in ages i played before they implemented this system

thats why i have maxed out characters but no actual good gear or gamesense

i was there at launch

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/plague-ogryn-ogryn-reaction-live-reaction-plague-ogryn-live-reaction-gif-1395788199602766548

[unreal nova]

Just play like a more fragile zealot, kapp.

[hybrid plover]

okay anyone tell me if i'm wrong but does that actually require mastery to change the mark on a weapon

i could have sworn you could just

do that now

[unreal nova]

Yes.

Min mastery 7.

[hybrid plover]

Oh right

Yeah it's honestly been a while since I've even had to consider that.

apologies.

Had a ton of mats when the update started so I never got bottlenecked by it

[fervent citrus]

yeah I’ve been heavily bottlenecked by it for a while

[unreal nova]

Some are locked to 11 or 13, I can't remember.

[fervent citrus]

but either way I’ve been able to grow my arsenal

[hybrid plover]

people swear on the bleed blessings for it but honestly, executor + uncanny on mk6 knife has gotten me the best results

[fervent citrus]

Or I can lucky with Brunt and get a godroll with the mark I want like my recent Helbore

Because I think the dump on it was stability

[unreal nova]

No. Brunt only gives 1 mark unless in main shop.

[hybrid plover]

good horizontal swipes to chain weak spot hits and good push attack for single target

[fervent citrus]

yeah i got it from the main shop

[hybrid plover]

does crazy damage when you get to five executor stacks

[unreal nova]

They expect gamblers to be basically mastery 20.

[hybrid plover]

and the extra cleave's really nice

[fervent citrus]

all 80s, dump into stability, blue

Mk3a

[hybrid plover]

mk3a my fav helbore

[fervent citrus]

I’m not master 10 yet

But I skipped it cause Brunt decided to bless me in the main shop

[unreal nova]

You still need cos...

Higher perks/blessings.

[ornate light]

Whats the current meta slave build while I level and learn the class?

[unreal nova]

Recon/plasma/hellbore and ds4/ps.

Unless you like grenadier.

Then bistol+any good melee.

Bistol with lethal proximity btw.

[ornate light]

ds4?

[tame lodge]

Dueling Sword mk4

[ornate light]

bistol is Boltpistol?>

[unreal nova]

Yes.

[ornate light]

tyty

[unreal nova]

You asked for meta slave.

[ornate light]

ya

[marsh condor]

What I wish we can get.

Heavy Stubber or Rotary Cannon, either way, big gun.

[kind bison]

We have a heavy stubber, but it's ogryn

[marsh condor]

Ik

I'm waiting for a humie version

Hold on.

[kind bison]

SAWBAR

[marsh condor]

Technically an Arbites one, but I think we can make this particular variant a cosmetic.

Alternatively...

[kind bison]

grenade launcher or rotary shotgun?

[marsh condor]

Grenade Launcher.

Looking for the Militarum version rn

Maybe not this one, though...

Since Ogryn already has this.

[kind bison]

That stance is great

[marsh condor]

This one.

Either a grenade launcher or a big machine gun.

[kind bison]

So basically make some of the Ogryn weapons usable by Vet?

[marsh condor]

And Arbites, too. Albeit, these would've been altered, of course.

For the Heavy Stubbers, I can imagine their special being a stationary stance where they gain accuracy at the cost of movement speed.

And the Grenade Launchers either having a basic bash or load a special round (more likely the former) to make up for its extra 2 shots compared to the Ogryn's Grenadier Gauntlet.

[severe jolt]

can we FINALLY get the grenade launcher for veteran and arbites? pls do this slightly larger than average barracuda

[marsh condor]

I want to make a complete Grenadier set.

[kind bison]

Eh, I think before that happens they need to rework the sharpshooter path on vet's tree

[marsh condor]

True.

[kind bison]

This is a game that relies on moving and dodging. To have a keystone skill that requires standing still is foolish

Not to mention that the action skill is lacklustre as all get out

[marsh condor]

I was more concerned with how it works better with automatics than with snipers.

[kind bison]

Yeah that entire tree benefits more from an infantry autogun than a kantrael or helbore

Part of it is that the game is just too movement focussed to really make snipers useful. The whole thing is that you're to move as a group, but that getting bogged down for more than a moment is death.

And snipers do not move.

Not until they've made their shot.

[marsh condor]

Maybe they should merge the Camouflage talent with the base one.

And rework the current one into lowering their profile per stack.

[kind bison]

Even then, crouch movement is too slow

It needs to have a different method of gaining stacks than standing still/making weakspot hits and not remove stacks on movement

[severe jolt]

nothing in this game works the way it's supposed to

the "marksman" keystone works best with spray&pray weapons
the grenade gauntlet that's supposed to double as a melee weapon is actually a good sniper weapon
the "marksman rifle" works best if you also melee with it
the grenades and abilities that are supposed to be your "oh shit" last resort are actually something you spam all the time

[marsh condor]

The last one, technically some abilities are meant to be spammed.

[kind bison]

Most are

[marsh condor]

The grenades are really dependent on your class.

[kind bison]

I don't know which ones aren't meant to be spammed, though I save vet shout for when someone is down/toughness is low

[marsh condor]

If you can regenerate them, you'll spam grenades.

If you can't, then they're for emergencies.

[marsh condor]

There's Zealot's "recharge on melee crit" combined with a keystone designed around crits

[kind bison]

Sounds like it's meant to be spammed

[severe jolt]

zealot should have a grenade regen talent

[marsh condor]

Nah.

We already have 3/5 doing that already, 4/5 if you count Psykers.

Actually, Zealot already had that with the throwing knives, which regen upon killing elites/specialists.

Back on the topic

Which one would you prefer to come out first?

Heavy Stubber or Grenade Launcher?

[severe jolt]

Grenade Launcher for Vet&Arby like holy shit this thing is in everything
it's canon it has models there's lore about it
why the f is this not in the game

[marsh condor]

Ogryns.

[kind bison]

𝓵𝓸𝓻𝓮

[cinder token]

hello. does anybody know what's the patter for single targets for mk7 tac axe after the update?

I want to use headtaker + relentless strikes

m1 spam gives me 1300 dps on average

[grand perch]

[L1 → H2 → L3] in a loop gives the hight single target dps

you can begin with the special stagger + 1 light into that loop if you want a crusher staggered, for example

without any talents thats nearly 600dps on this axe

id recommend swapping relentless strikes for decimator since youll have way more uptime of decimator and dont need to limit yourself to one specific target

but really the moveset's DPS dont differ that much between light spam and the loop above, at least against carapace

[cinder token]

yeah, it's like ~100+ dps more it seems

but it's definitely a more interesting pattern to use 🙂

thanks!

[cinder token]

dont need to limit yourself to one specific target
in theory yes, but I think I'd be doing extra swings and lose all my stacks

[grand perch]

right but consider youll probably lose relentless a lot too. especially when theres a wave coming hitting another target is really easy

its what turned me off relentless

[cinder token]

hmmm you are onto something

[royal hedge]

For the recon lasgun, which perks do you usually take?

[cinder token]

Check the pinged guide, it has a section about must-have perks

[tall torrent]

unyielding, flak, dum dum, infernus

[tough vine]

hey i need to ask, whats the best gun for crowd controol, maybe even decent damage aginst elites

i am having major trouble to play efficently with him and use rapier(dueling sword) for armored enemies xd

[tall torrent]

Ranged is usually not for horde

[tough vine]

so he is ment to be more for like taking down elites and above?

[normal bay]

Bolter, Helbore IV, Plasma to some extent, recon excepting crushers

[tough vine]

i mean for crushers you always can take the nades tbh

[normal bay]

Expect to melee some armoured enemies

[tough vine]

i am reskilling for the 7th time or so rn bc i keep feel like i dont do shit XD thats why i came here to just ask

[normal bay]

You tend to run out of kraks on higher diffs lol

[unreal nova]

I feel like first question should be, what diff do you play?

[tough vine]

I mean i want it to be a set that can deal with the high difficulty things.

never played havoc yet bc i never find a party.

first i need to somehow get effective enough to not die in the damn mid-diffuclty stuff on veteran...

[unreal nova]

Because if you don't learn to melee armour, you should never play higher than malice.

[tall torrent]

no, u can kill everything

just

[unreal nova]

3 kraks won't save you from 10 crushers.

[normal bay]

Never stopped the randoms before

[tall torrent]

take a melee weapon that does it for u

[unreal nova]

True.

[tough vine]

well i would say i am decent aginst it. Thats why i choose to take the dueling sword to get its mastery up

i noticed MOST random groups die to armored spam...unless you got that one overpowerd guy that just takes them all on (or a very good ogryn.)

[tall torrent]

then u just cope with the worst horde clear in the game

ranged vs horde is rly not smth encouraged by the game

[tough vine]

no. thats why supression is a thing

[tall torrent]

suppression works on a total of 7 enemy types lol

[tough vine]

i mean on us

we are effectet by it as the enemies are xd

this way we get forced to use our melee. (at least thats how i take it)

[tall torrent]

no

well, not exactly

[sly orchid]

taxe vet

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/GwiAai1aoAAkxS8.gif

[tall torrent]

I don't know wat u mean by crowd control ranged

shotgun?

still wouldn't shoot horde with them

[sly orchid]

flamer is the only good hordeclear ranged

[tall torrent]

mixed horde sure

[sly orchid]

maybe flechette fire shotgun

[tall torrent]

ranged weapon is usually 1 of 3 jobs

mixed horde blender
monster dps
sniping

[tough vine]

I dont like the shotguns besides the arbiters specific one xd

the arbites class shotgun is the only shotgun that feels like a shotgun

[tall torrent]

yea then u just cope with the worst horde clear in the game

it is what duelling sword does

[tough vine]

how abaut suggesting something instead of just beeing mean?

[tall torrent]

I'm not being mean I'm just telling u that ranged vs horde is not rly a thing for veteran

u can shotgun vs mixed horde like ragers and maulers

but that's about the extent of it

[tough vine]

so ranger is a class focused on taking down elites and everything above.?

[normal bay]

Good alternatives to DS;

Combat Axe, Power Sword, Chain axe

[tough vine]

just wanna know on what i should rather focus then

[tall torrent]

no, veteran focuses on killing everything

u just happened to take the 1 melee weapon that does the worst horde clear in the game

if u had a different melee weapon, let's say a power sword, the need for "ranged vs horde" wouldn't even be a need

[tough vine]

tru.

[tough vine]

ima try that suggestion then x3

[tall torrent]

using duelling sword kinda means u've accepted that ur horde clear gonna be bad therefore u prioritize elites and specials
it's more of the weapon's identity than veteran's identity

[normal bay]

There are other options for ranged that can deal with cara, like heavy sword and tac axe. But those all deal with armour well

[tall torrent]

which means that u don't want to get stuck fighting horde with duelling sword basically ever

u said ur doing duelling sword mastery

[sly orchid]

Taxe powersword heavy sword all have good hordeclear

But taxe amd powersword can deal with mixed hordes better

[past stratus]

Taxe >:(

[sly orchid]

Its real good on vet

[past stratus]

it is good I just don't like the feel of the weapon, it's an axe that is bigger than Combat Axe but feels lighter and faster than a Dueling Sword, it is just a weird weapon

it feels floaty

[normal bay]

Bigger than combat axe?

That little guy?

[past stratus]

I think it is isn't it? The Taxe has a pretty hefty handle and the head of the axe in some Marks are bigger

the combat axe reminds me more of the handaxes in RPGs

[normal bay]

Nah, Caxe is like two handed and taxe is one

[past stratus]

either way, the Taxe is visually just lame to me. The Knife has more impactful animations

the Taxe is a objectively, mathematically good weapon. But I think it is the lamest melee weapon vet has

[marble mantle]

Chaxe is good?

[past stratus]

it's fun to play, but I think the consensus is that it is not very good

unless you're Papa Willy, I think he plays the Chaxe in Havoc 40

big Chaxe enthusiast

[normal bay]

Chaxe is good, just has some downsides like weak dodges

And getting mauley by final toll ragers

Though you can use bloodletter instead

[bitter scroll]

started darktide about a month ago and have over 160+ hours in at this point and i think it's safe to say veteran might be my favorite class now. that being said, i want to know if going for a bleed build is viable with this class

i'm not in havoc yet, mostly been doing heresy/damnation stuff with the occasional auric solo queue

[past stratus]

the one bleed thing I hear people doing often is using the Bolt Pistol + Shredder Grenades with lots of grenade talents

the famous grenadier build

but applying bleeds manually idk

[bitter scroll]

knife mostly

[frigid shuttle]

You could, but zealot could do that better?

[floral hearth]

ogryn as well

[flint lake]

Pretty much any vet melee build is going to just be a worse zealot

[tall torrent]

taking 1 bleed blessing is ok
taking 2, is less than ok

[unreal nova]

Taking 3... XD

[past stratus]

Vet is not particularly good at melee, yeah. That's just an unfortunate fact

[bitter scroll]

pain

[sly orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/lies-of-p-pinocchio-gif-8034685000585713923

[floral hearth]

but as long as you dont hit (high) havoc (because you will feel the pain and others will bitch), everything can work

[bitter scroll]

i don't have any plans to play havoc at the moment.

[past stratus]

I think you can do pretty decent if you go WS and trench fighter

plus a few of our defensive talents

[bitter scroll]

right now my favorite builds to run have honestly been stealth smoke support and stealth melee grenadier

they're stupid fun

[past stratus]

if you're having fun, that's what matters

[bitter scroll]

until you're overrun then try to stealth your way out of a horde only to have no way out lmao

[marble mantle]

Stealth 🫩

[past stratus]

fucked up thing is that every time you stealth someone on your team also gets overwhelmed by the portion of the map that should be aggroed on you

[marble mantle]

Stealth is something that should’ve never been added to the game

I stand by that

[unreal nova]

Taunts are fine because you choose the aggro. De-aggros just screws someone else.

[bitter scroll]

the concept of sniper builds in this game is puzzling to me because of how movement heavy it is

[past stratus]

I understand the idea behind it and how it can be fun for some people but yeah, it is not a very good ability to have in a heavily team focused game

[marble mantle]

Mmmmmmmm helbore mmmmmm I love helbore

[unreal nova]

It's team stealth or bust basically.

[marble mantle]

Well I mean, it’s “team focused” heavy on the air quotes, but still. If your solution to a problem is to make it someone else’s problem, thumbs down.

[past stratus]

don't get me going about disengage again 😭

[bitter scroll]

usually if i stealth i try drop a nade at my feet if i can, whether it's a frag or a smoke for the suppression

[past stratus]

In higher difficulties it is pretty heavily team focused. Because you can't really solo Havoc 40 most of the time

[marble mantle]

Yeah but high havoc is still, end of the day, about being able to be self sufficient to some capacity. That being said, I do agree.

[past stratus]

I say most of the time because there was that guy that made a custom game abusing the arby bug and shit but yeah

[marble mantle]

If you like abusing bugs, good on ya. Not for me.

[steep flower]

Wdym i play vet in H40 and its peak

[past stratus]

I'm not a fan either

and to be completely real here, I don't think even the real H40 gamers here could solo a Maelstrom run, heck even Auric. It is just a different set of skills

[steep flower]

Ay Yo @marble mantle I’m gonna be home in maybe 2h; wanna play havoc & maybe get a true survivor?

[floral hearth]

as melee vet?

and people haven't bitched at you?

that sounds amazing

[normal bay]

Melee vet is just vet with a couple of melee nodes

[floral hearth]

yeah, you'd think it wouldnt be that much of an issue

[quick burrow]

so close

[past stratus]

what is melee vet even? A vet that never pulls his primary?

[bitter scroll]

shamk

[past stratus]

is there any class that does that? Even arby, ogryn and zealot use their primary

[crude wind]

The game is melee pilled

[floral hearth]

like said before, basically a worse zealot

[bitter scroll]

technically the melee is the primary

[past stratus]

no I mean, why would you use the rest of your loadout?

[steep flower]

I do go into melee when I can & know i have to to kill key targets; nobody bitches

And no i do not use WS

[bitter scroll]

what's a ws

[steep flower]

Againts chaf yes; againts elites & bosses its actually better

[past stratus]

Weapon Specialist

one of Vet's keystones

[marble mantle]

I don’t have a 35 or higher, which is kind of a standing issue lol

[steep flower]

I do

[floral hearth]

bro, why are you coming at me like that

[marble mantle]

Oh okay, then hella

[floral hearth]

someone was just talking about knife/melee vet earlier is all

damn

[steep flower]

No i am not; i am not gay

[floral hearth]

uh

ok

[past stratus]

WS is a good keystone if you want to spend extra time in melee

[floral hearth]

weird retort, but w/e works ig

[past stratus]

but even then you will have to pull your little gun at some point to get the bonuses

[steep flower]

‘Weird’ is my middle name

Nice to meat you

[floral hearth]

is there an HR department around here

[steep flower]

I think the guys with Yellow name? I dunno

[floral hearth]

thatll do

[past stratus]

Papa someone was asking about the Chain Axe earlier

[steep flower]

Who?

[past stratus]

@steep flower here

I just started leveling the Chaxe I don't know much about it besides that the second Mark feels easier to play than the first one

[steep flower]

Nah its dodges are ok; its horde clear is subpar but horde CC is nice

[bitter scroll]

feels clunky to me which is a damn shame because i love axes

[steep flower]

Yeah just as I scrolled upwards; thx for the ping anyways

[bitter scroll]

should get a mauler chainaxe for zealot

[steep flower]

First one (Mk IV) is the way to go; much more save to use

[past stratus]

np, always happy to help people that want to play with unorthodox weapon choices (??)

[steep flower]

I wish… maybe one day

[compact oracle]

ive been searching for a 2handed chainaxe since day one

[steep flower]

Want me to give you a Chainaxe 101 lesson?

[past stratus]

the second one felt better because of the Heavy sweep attack, it is difficult to horde clear with the first one but I'm very noob with it. Player like 4 games only

[steep flower]

I’m returning home

[bitter scroll]

sure

i still have a 60 mobility 310 one lying around

[steep flower]

Oh; the first chainaxe is the one with heavy attack being a sweep, the second one is the one with overhead heavies

[past stratus]

oh by leveling order the first one is the overhead heavy, that's what I meant

[steep flower]

Aaahhh i see

I went by in order of releases

Or by color

[past stratus]

second one has the light attack that goes BRRR

and the sweep heavy

[bitter scroll]

there's one i don't like that has pretty bad cleave

[steep flower]

And the glorious push attack swipe

[steep flower]

Both are not the best at cleave but i will speak about it as i come home; should be in an hour

[bitter scroll]

ta bien

i will probably be playing jackbox in an hour though lmao

[past stratus]

i'm currently leveling Chaxe and Combat Shotgun, I feel so scrappy and metal

[bitter scroll]

combat shotgun my beloved

[past stratus]

it's a pretty fun weapon

[steep flower]

Like an old Grandpa

[steep flower]

I will note you once i come home; getting closer to my final stop

[past stratus]

yeah it's cool, I'm using the speedy aura, smoke grenade and WS. Probably not the ideal setup but it feels very versatile

smokes are so helpful when you get them right

[bitter scroll]

oh okay, yeah it's the sweep heavy one that i don't like

it starts shredding on lights

[steep flower]

That one is actually the better one of the two

[past stratus]

shredding on lights seems to work real good on maulers

[bitter scroll]

ok after swapping to slaughterer and headtaker this feels a lot better jesus

[steep flower]

On any elite & special

[past stratus]

I can definitely see why the weapon has some adepts, it feels like an acquired taste that can work really well if you get used to it

[sudden cedar]

It just isn't a duelling sword.