veteran-class

[little path]

he's becoming a true vet

[dense belfry]

I remember it being worse than the chainsword.

[little path]

he's learning to hate the dueling sword

[tropic notch]

Actually a really fun weapon to use is the chain axe if you want a chain weapon

[dense belfry]

I always hated it.

[calm shard]

Did you turn it on

[dense belfry]

Yes.

[orchid hemlock]

nah this can't be happening

[little path]

I love the chain axe

[barren cave]

dueling sword and crusher are the only melee weapons in the game I havent tried yet

[orchid hemlock]

when has the CS ever been good?

[dense belfry]

Couldn't kill a damn pox walker.

[calm shard]

Yeah don't swing it at all if you don't use the special to turn it on

[orchid hemlock]

did you turn it on?

[dense belfry]

Yes.

Especially.

[little path]

Did you turn try turning it off then turning it back on?

[dense belfry]

Ok, Roy.

[tropic notch]

Tbh for a new player Rashad or power sword will work well

[dense belfry]

*Returning

[orchid hemlock]

ok so I'm just going to pretend you didnt say that

Best melee weapons on Vet atm is:

Rashad, PS, DS, Knife

[little path]

brother just use the chainsword if you want. Just remember to use the mk13g

if you're dedicated to the shock troop idea

[calm shard]

no love for my boy the heavy sword

[tropic notch]

I mean it’s good

[orchid hemlock]

i would love it more if it actually killed maulers

[tropic notch]

You’ll just cope against any Cara

[calm shard]

well I'll be damned the power sword doesn't kill poxwalkers in one bodyshot

news to me

[dense belfry]

I'm willing to try PS, see if it truly has gotten better.

[tropic notch]

And watch the zealot steal your kill

[orchid hemlock]

trash weapon frfr

[little path]

yeah ps is meta

[tropic notch]

Even before the ps was the best

[calm shard]

but also like

[dense belfry]

*small warband of arbites.

[calm shard]

aim up

the thing's all horizontal swings

[orchid hemlock]

was the PS ever weak?

[tropic notch]

No

[little path]

no

[calm shard]

no

[dense belfry]

I recall it being weak when i used one.

[little path]

I think people just trash talked the shit out of it post nerf

[tropic notch]

Did you turn it on

With power cycler

[little path]

back when people still treated even the most minor of nerfs as "the weapon is ruined"

[dense belfry]

I did

[dense belfry]

Idk, it was a few years ago.

[calm shard]

I don't really know if I could ever call this weapon weak

[little path]

it was after the nerf and before power cycler was added

it was still very strong

[calm shard]

this is my gun build I have zero melee talents

[little path]

but people were over reacting

[calm shard]

power cycler was in the game on launch

[orchid hemlock]

ok so, I will say this, everything you thought you knew about the game just wipe from your mind for now

because I keep hearing things about the past that may or may not be true or anecdotal, so lets just move on to the present

[little path]

oh shit yeah

[calm shard]

It just used to give you 5 swings instead of 3

[tame lodge]

No

[little path]

wait I'm trying to remember correctly

it was like

[tame lodge]

It was absolutely fucking broken at launch

[calm shard]

I honestly hope it gets removed and PS just gets more swings

[dense belfry]

I remember chainsword being able to 1 shot a mauler.

[calm shard]

Or works like relic blade

[little path]

standard PSword gave 3 swings?

and infinite cleave

and they nerfed it down to 2 swings? and only near infinite cleave

and people freaked the fuck out?

was that it?

[orchid hemlock]

yes it was stronger before the BM "nerf"

[orchid hemlock]

here is the problem with CS

what happens if you have maulers on you?

[calm shard]

I don't have a chainsword on my vet but I do have a chainaxe which is close enough

and yes mauler one shot

[little path]

Fucking love the chain axe

[dense belfry]

I kill them all. Usually.

[little path]

such a goofy weapon

[orchid hemlock]

so lets say 3 are on you and a horde, what do you do?

[dense belfry]

Toss a krak nade in, activate voice clear the horde and focus the mauler after.

[junior grail]

Kill them all

[orchid hemlock]

ok lets assume you dont have any kraks and VOC is on cooldown

because the whole point of this hypothetical is to explain a serious problem on the CS

especially in higher level content

[little path]

voc on cooldown is actually the least believable part

[dense belfry]

The fact it has no stagger?

[frigid shuttle]

rely on zealot with relic blade to clear 'em out

[orchid hemlock]

no

[orchid hemlock]

how do you deal with a mauler with the CS?

just one

[dense belfry]

The fact you have to stop moving for the rev mode to work fully?

*Once you hit

[little path]

the main problem with the CS is that the actual damage values against carapace and even flak is a touch on the low side

relying on the special

which yeah, you are forced to stop moving

[junior grail]

It's a chain weapon issue, they need to stick on enemies to do significant damage which other weapons can achieve more easily

[orchid hemlock]

that's part of it, but the full damage will not be executed if at any point you are interupted or need to dodge

[little path]

yep

[orchid hemlock]

and when you are reving you cannot block

[junior grail]

But one advantage, CHAINWEAPON GO BRRRRRRR

You can dodge to cancel the rev

[little path]

so basically it's either take the bleed blessings (less than optimal) or just use normal heavies and beat them to death with a blunt object

[dense belfry]

This is very unfortunate.

[frigid shuttle]

why I can't enjoy chain weapons, all other weapons magically go through enemies, chain special needs to stick to them

[orchid hemlock]

so if you have 3 maulers on you, you rev and try to hit one of them but the other 2 start their overhead animation so you need to dodge

[dense belfry]

Kind of a power-fantasy trap, isn't it?

[little path]

don't get it wrong. It's not like ultra dog shit, just that it requires a lot more technique to use

[orchid hemlock]

if you try to wave clear with the lights the CS just bounces on the maulers and you cant touch the horde

[calm shard]

I like the chain axe a lot

[little path]

it's just like... kinda... not great

[calm shard]

Chainswords are definitely far into the "ultra dogshit" territory

If it was just maulers/crushers that they got stuck on sure

[little path]

if you want the chain weapon fantasy, chainaxe is definitely the way to go

[calm shard]

But they get stuck on literally every enemy that is not the trashest of trash

[junior grail]

I suggest this

If the enemy dies before receiving the full rev damage, the weapon swing carries through and revs the next enemy in range

[barren cave]

which chainaxe variant is the best

[junior grail]

Or give chaxe more cleave like Evi

[little path]

mk4

[calm shard]

personal preference they're about equal tbh

[orchid hemlock]

it's not just that the CS is bad intio heavily armored targets, it's that if there is at least one enemy in the horde that you can't cleave thru, you basically have no wave clear anymore

[tropic notch]

Chain sword likes wrath because of its unique finesse fall off

[calm shard]

Most people prefer XII

It's easier to use

[little path]

is it?

[calm shard]

I prefer IV because it can stunlock bulwarks and crushers to death

[junior grail]

I like spamming light attacks and using heavies for hordeclear

[dense belfry]

I find XII has a bad attack pattern for horde clearing

[calm shard]

You just spam lights

That's all you do

[tropic notch]

If you’re running it do flak + maniac, shred + wrath

[barren cave]

so the way to use chainaxe is do heavies for horde clear and special lights for single target?

[calm shard]

Couldn't be easier

[little path]

pretty sure they both have like the same attack pattern

lights will do normal sawing attacks

heavies do vanguard swings

[calm shard]

honestly never use the special on either chainaxe unless that elite is alone

[little path]

ye

[calm shard]

Mk IV does great single target damage with its lights

And Mk XII does the same with its heavies

[tropic notch]

Mk4 Is just the best

[calm shard]

Lights saw on the Mk IV

Heavies saw on the Mk XII

[dense belfry]

IV has great sweeps as it's light too.

[little path]

oh wait nvm

[little path]

yeha my game didn't update

[calm shard]

go hit something with one of them

[barren cave]

which is the one where I can spam m1 to do horde clear and use heavies for single target

[little path]

I switched the mks and it didn't show the correct attack chains

[dense belfry]

Your point is "it doesn't instakill poxers so it's bad", right?

[calm shard]

My point is it gets stuck on them and doesn't cleave

honestly just light spam with Mk IV it does good enough damage

[junior grail]

My only issue is

Why can't I carry TWO chainaxes

[dense belfry]

You're thinking of the Xiiig

That one is bad for hordes.

[calm shard]

and heavy spam on XII is fine too

[calm shard]

I'm talking about the chainaxe

[barren cave]

i thought 13g was the best variant of the chainswords??

[calm shard]

and XIIIg spams lights into hordes too

[dense belfry]

Oh.

[little path]

13g is

[junior grail]

I use that for Purgatus Psyker

13g chainsword doesn't need to exist lol

[dense belfry]

It's the best for single target.

But gets stuck on hordes.

[barren cave]

ok, just to clarify once again, which variant of the chainaxe lets me horde clear with lights and single target clear with heavies

instead of the opposite

[calm shard]

it's the best for both

just spam lights into hordes

[little path]

mk12

[calm shard]

XII

[barren cave]

k, ty

[dense belfry]

It doesn't sweep though.

[barren cave]

uh, which perks and blessings mk12

[junior grail]

Sorry I meant I use Chaxe mk 12 on my Purgatus Psyker

Helps against bosses

[calm shard]

man I should use this weapon again

[barren cave]

no, im using it rn

[junior grail]

When the Psyker is done using magic shit

brings out hugeass chainaxe

[little path]

zealot should totally get double chainaxe

Or just double axe

[junior grail]

2handed Chainaxe like the Mauler

[dense belfry]

Well, after our discussion about CS, I'll work to afford a Power sword and see if I can roll a good one.

What Dump stat is recommended, mobility?

[calm shard]

cleave targets

[little path]

cleave target

[dense belfry]

Oh?

[dense belfry]

Interesting.

[barren cave]

im assuming mk12 chaxe build is headtaker and thunderous

[narrow frost]

ew

[calm shard]

headtaker slaughterer

[dense belfry]

Any reason?

[calm shard]

its horde clear is the problem you'll run into

[narrow frost]

headtaker + Thrust/slaughter

[calm shard]

very small change between 60/80

[halcyon blaze]

I currently do a shredder grenade shout focus build, with a shovel.
Gives me some decent horde clear.

[barren cave]

itl handle single targets just fine without thrust ? or do I need thrust for them crushers

[tropic notch]

I’d recommend mk4

With headtaker slaughter

[dense belfry]

Thank you.

Any variants i should look out for?

[barren cave]

im using mk4 rn, I dont like horde clearing with its heavies, Id rather spam m1 for horde clear

[little path]

mk6

[calm shard]

Mk 6 is almost directly better than Mk3

[tropic notch]

Mk6

Perks are elites carapace

[dense belfry]

What's the attack pattern like, any awkward angles?

[little path]

no

[tropic notch]

Light spam

[little path]

just spam lights

activate, swing 5 times

repeat

[tropic notch]

Push attack into light single target

[calm shard]

well don't just spam lights

activate sword BLOCK, 3 lights repeat for horde clear

[dense belfry]

How long does the activation last? Is it like the one I used where it was very short?

[calm shard]

activate sword push attack, light repeat for single target

[little path]

uuuuh

activation is weird

basically it turns off when you do anything other than swing

oh except block

you can block

[tropic notch]

With power cycler it will last for 3 hits

[calm shard]

only if you haven't attacked yet

[little path]

ye

[dense belfry]

My God.

[barren cave]

dump stat on chaxe is defense right?

[little path]

ye

[dense belfry]

This sounds like heaven compared to my past experience.

[barren cave]

flak maniac?

flak carapace?

[little path]

cara man

[tropic notch]

Tis why i recommend you that build

[barren cave]

cara maniac?

[little path]

ye

[narrow frost]

flak + whatever you hate

maniac/cara/unyield

[little path]

ye

[barren cave]

i just need it to be able to kill everything

[little path]

then cara man

[barren cave]

does it kill crushers in one heavy sawing?

[little path]

the mk4 will kill every non melee elite with a light

[dense belfry]

Got the Link saved. I'll check it soon.

Thanks.

[little path]

so that just leaves cara and maniac

[barren cave]

not the m4, the 12

[little path]

oh wait mk12, right

no clue

[tropic notch]

Mk4 with maniac will 2 or 1 shot ragers I believe

If memory serves my right

[barren cave]

4 is great, but i dont like spamming its heavies for horde clear

[tropic notch]

On light

[calm shard]

one shot lights yes

[little path]

We are unsubtly trying to tell you to use the mk4

[tropic notch]

I thought like that but what are you gonna do against the 30 ragers

Take your time to heavy them?

[calm shard]

kills every melee elite except the ogryns with a light too xd

oh and maybe maulers

[barren cave]

but its sooo haaard, sometimes Im doing horde clear and I click a light by mistake, the axe then gets stuck sawing into a gunner

[little path]

guess god wanted that gunner dead

[dense belfry]

Ight, bad roll, guess I'm off grinding.

[little path]

do auric missions to reduce the grind bruv

[dense belfry]

I haven't got good weapons for that.

[calm shard]

3 hits maulers

[barren cave]

im loving mk9 hsword rn

its so braindead easy to use

h1 special forever

the whole game is just h1 special loop

[dense belfry]

Seriously tho.

[little path]

huh

that shovel is the good roll

[calm shard]

got it down to a 2 shot

[dense belfry]

Very weak though.

[barren cave]

yeah that shovel has perfect stat spread

[tropic notch]

That shovel would be good if defense was dumped

[little path]

oh it's defense dump?

[tropic notch]

Yeah

[barren cave]

you can make it work with mob

[dense belfry]

The dissonance goes crazy.

[barren cave]

dump

[tropic notch]

Mobility > defense

[dense belfry]

Wait.

I can make it a mk 1.

[little path]

it goes like uuuuh

[tropic notch]

Except crusher

[dense belfry]

It has more damage somehow

[tropic notch]

And hsword

[calm shard]

3 shot a crusher lmao

[little path]

Defense < Mob < cleave target?

[barren cave]

is that with slaughterer headtaker?

and cara plus someperk?

[calm shard]

yes

it's cara+maniacs

also with agile engagement up because this is a 2nd vet build

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent why isn’t cleave targets the dump for hsword that has bm and headtaker

[calm shard]

with speed aura+infiltrate

[barren cave]

are you using the special?

[calm shard]

no

just 3 lights

[barren cave]

just light

right

[dense belfry]

What one's better to use?

[tropic notch]

Mk1

[barren cave]

uh

is mk1 the non foldable one

[dense belfry]

Yes.

The mk1 has more damage though.

[tropic notch]

Mk1 is the go to for me

[dense belfry]

I'll hear this dude out first.

[tropic notch]

With uncanny and decimator and flak + maniac you can bring it into havoc

Probably

[calm shard]

You can

[dense belfry]

For the mk 1?

[calm shard]

But should you?

[barren cave]

i find combat knife really hard to use on vet compared to zealot

[tropic notch]

No

It’ll work tho

[dense belfry]

Can't.

Don't have havoc access.

Auric is the goal for now.

[tropic notch]

No twbs

Truly a great node

You can run exe stance and get it

[barren cave]

zealot tree isnt spoiled for choice id say

[tropic notch]

Exe stance gives you stun immunity

Path told me that

You can be a pusedo zealot

[dense belfry]

You can't.

It stops when you pull out melee

[barren cave]

but i just finished exec penances, im sick of it, in fact im so sick of it im trying to do the mmf penance without using execstance

[tropic notch]

They changed it

[narrow frost]

changed that like 8 months ago

[dense belfry]

Did they?

[tropic notch]

Yup

[dense belfry]

Didn't know that.

[calm shard]

used to

[tropic notch]

Ainz did you see my question above to path?

[calm shard]

not anymore

[tropic notch]

.

[dense belfry]

Yeah, I know. I was there.

[narrow frost]

def isnt that useful, iirc its only block cost on Hsword

[tropic notch]

Oh Fr?

[narrow frost]

plus cleave targets can also changed dps on non headshot

[tropic notch]

That’s much more understandable

I see I see

[dense belfry]

I feel like the MK 1 shovel leaves you open to Carapace enemies.

At least with the Vii you can fold it.

[narrow frost]

if you kill them

they die

special also staggers them out of overheads

PA is good single target dps for crushers

[dense belfry]

Yes, but how effectively can you do it with a weapon with little rending.

[narrow frost]

easily

[barren cave]

uncanny strike gives you rending anyway

[narrow frost]

I do havoc 40 with these weapoins

without rending

its a huge skill ceiling being able to deal with carapace

[dense belfry]

I'm just getting my vet in good shape after a very long hiatus.

[narrow frost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3K8JmZ2Iks

here is 4 vets all with smokes and no rending

2 heavy sword

2 taxe

and only 1 gold toughness

(we meant to have 0)

[dense belfry]

What about Sapper shovel?

Nvm

That's a ridiculous request.

[narrow frost]

hmm

?

[dense belfry]

Sapper shovel is my only usable weapon that may be havoc worthy if I can make it to auric.

And do a maelstrom.

[dense belfry]

My short term goal is to get a PS worth using.

Brb, grinding money.

Nevermind, nobody's online.

[steel veldt]

Infiltrator is so fun

especially with frags

problem, crushers.

[calm shard]

just kill them

[steel veldt]

With what?

My knife and infantry AG?

[calm shard]

you're having trouble with crushers with the knife?

kill them

[steel veldt]

knfie can penetrate carapace?

[calm shard]

DEAD even

yeah it's one of the best at it actually

[steel veldt]

how.

[calm shard]

that

[steel veldt]

huh

I actually have that

didn't put 2 and 2 together though

which enemies are specialists btw

for the 6 sec for inflitrate

[hollow ibex]

the guys who like to spawn behind you and net you, flame you, throw bombs, pounce you, etc.

[steel veldt]

ty

How is Recon lasgun though?

Just got one

[hollow ibex]

very good

one of vet's meta weapons

[steel veldt]

way better than infantry autogun I assume...

[hollow ibex]

IAGs are great too

but recons are prob a bit more meta

[calm shard]

https://fximgur.com/a/9UXdUQc

[dense belfry]

I didn't know the Veteran had rannicks implant.

[steel veldt]

Should I be throwing shredder frags at bosses?

and crushers

or just trash mobs

[calm shard]

anything that isn't a crusher or boss

genuinely only those 2 are bad targets for shredders

[steel veldt]

got it

[hollow ibex]

Well

Shredder can be useful for boss stagger

Just need to be careful with timing due to fuse delay

[calm shard]

Don't they only stagger chaos spawn

[hollow ibex]

But yeah otherwise

I think they stagger all bosses

Been a while though

[calm shard]

I've only ever seen it happen to chaos spawn

[hollow ibex]

I remembering it staggering plogryn and it can make BON vomit people out

But it’s been a while since I’ve tested

[teal canyon]

One of the most boring to use, but somewhat effective

[steel veldt]

I had no infiltrate, still revived during twins fight, dude immediately goes down we lose

wow

And he is playing Arby too

(throwing grenades overhead removes stealth, but rolling them doesn't? Okay)

[calm shard]

I don't really see what them being an arbites player has to do with it

People go down as Zealot and Ogryn all the damn time

[steel veldt]

Because Arbiter from my experience is busted as hell lol

Back I go to IAG though

[calm shard]

Their talent tree is just really idiot proof

It's difficult to make a weak build for them without actively trying to

Since a lot of their skill tree forces you to make somewhat reasonable decisions

[teal canyon]

Walk it off: run to gain toughness

[little path]

"run it off" sounds pretty badass

[teal canyon]

Vet: 25% ammo but far away
ARB: 25% ammo but in the middle

[steel veldt]

Also, melee shields, shoot hp?

(when against bosses)

[stiff glacier]

also arbites not having passive stat increase nodes other than 6 or 8 i think

everything else being actual skill

[calm shard]

they have 7

Of which you are only required to take 3 of them

[stiff glacier]

from wich 2 are just passive toughness increases

[calm shard]

yeah

[stiff glacier]

that you dont even accidentally dodge

[steel veldt]

I am killing specials but my talent isn't being reduced by 6...

[grand perch]

You're sure you're killing specials and not elites?

[steep flower]

They still do but they need to be in the epicenter of the blast and BON needs to finish the animation of the swallow (just to be sure; if you shout as vet as it devours a teammate it will just shrug it off)

[steep flower]

I bet even chainsword will be good on arby; shredder is, achlyss Caxe is; might aswell be chainy

[steep flower]

Trust me i’ve seen some arby builds that were… subpar so it is still not that hard for an imbecil to fk it up

[steep flower]

Wdym?

[steel veldt]

What is the difference? To make sure

[steel veldt]

Bosses

The white bar is the shield, you melee that right?

Then red bar is health, you shoot that, right?

Like the twins and assassination mission people

And Rolling Steel champ

[steep flower]

Specials spawn constantly regardless where you are, elites don’t; elites don’t have special properties like trapper that can incapacitate you or mutant throw you away

[grand perch]

All ogryns except for the boss are elites, for example

[steep flower]

Aaa you mean void shields; they are yellow first of all and you don’t shoot them; they have 50% range dmg reduction but take more dmg from melee

[steel veldt]

Yeah

Had a Twin game and I kept shooting at them

Wondered why it was tickling them

[unreal nova]

Is like oggy.

[steel veldt]

@grand perch also sick pfp mate :)

[steep flower]

Elites;
Both shotguners
Both gunners
Both ragers
Mauler
Bulwark
Crusher
Reaper

Specials;
Both bombers
Both flamers
Trapper
Mutant
Dog
Sniper
Poxburster

[steep flower]

Now kiss eachother

[steel veldt]

Thank you

[steel veldt]

:D

[untold mulch]

I am so pissed everytime I see their pathing to +25% ammo

[hybrid plover]

it pisses me off especially because arby doesn't even need that node

it is already a busted enough class

[untold mulch]

Its almost insulting to the Vet class, like is there for just a blatant "Yeah this is better Vet, go kark off we don't care"

[hybrid plover]

I've honestly just gotten tired of the power creep. The class isn't that interesting anymore because it's so abrasively powerful.

all of these little things just accumulating to "better vet that isn't ammo dispenser" :(

[untold mulch]

The fact that Vet still is just ammo dispenser and VOC spam is just comically bad

[hybrid plover]

I'm sure fatshark already knows something's gotta change but knowing their track record, it'll probably be a while before vet gets their needed touch up

[pseudo fiber]

They know

They also know zealot need one first

[hybrid plover]

ye

[last depot]

Doesnt vet still have the fastest ranged special and elite clear?

[hybrid plover]

not really

[steep flower]

Nah its not

[hybrid plover]

in theory, if you're playing your balls off, it can

[steep flower]

Nah

[hybrid plover]

but arbites can muster that same kind of killing potential without any thought whatsoever

[untold mulch]

If another karking dog jumps my target while I am mid-burst I am going to lose my mind

[steep flower]

Is it tho? I do not feel like i just do those things when i play vet

[hybrid plover]

of course there's exe stance and infiltrator, and i guess the other auras, but really the general idea for how vet's play is, well, exactly that. shout and survivalist. because it's the setup that gives them the most survivability by a severely large margin

[unreal nova]

Bullets means trapper kills.

[steep flower]

Those are just staples; there are many more variables… and personal skill

[unreal nova]

Having bullets gud, especially when bad arbys hoover all the tins

[untold mulch]

At this point I don't use any weapon I can't be self suficient with scavenger

Zealots with Bolters and now Arbiters just...

yeah

[steep flower]

Maybe you haven’t meet a good vet in a while (its soo easy to brick a vet its unironically the hardest class to build rn)

[hybrid plover]

That's exactly the problem

[steep flower]

Man we should play

[hybrid plover]

I main vet darn it.

[untold mulch]

I use infiltrate, but also I don't even bother with Havoc

[steep flower]

One can teach another my friend

[untold mulch]

To get ammo reduction and ranged resistance all day

I play SM2 then with the shit balance it has

[hybrid plover]

I'll admit though. I'll give them this.

That helbore buff is wonderful because running it with shock troop in havoc, it is literally impossible to run out of ammo

And it works but I guess my thing is

[unreal nova]

4 vet party go.

[untold mulch]

Helbore now feels nice even to me

Sadly I still suck with semiautos because for some reason I have an innate accuracy debuff when firing something that is not automatic

[steep flower]

Unlike 4 psykers it ain’t gonna lose to bosses

[hybrid plover]

It feels like vet's really limited in getting to the same kind of level of effectiveness as say, arby who you can just, do anything with and you'll destroy everything regardless

[unreal nova]

Wat bosses?

[normal bay]

Try aiming higher, sights are slightly misaligned

[hybrid plover]

oh yeah i saw this

they're aware

but holy shit now that arbites is out, it's become painfully apparent that vet needs a touch up

[untold mulch]

Nah, is something with EVERY shooter I play, is a joke in my friends group

I WILL do a silhouette to a target with a semiauto, but also I will nail the same target from a lot further away with an automatic weapon

I just.... miss when I can't hold down the trigger no karking clue why exactly

[hybrid plover]

just so there's more options to level it out with the other classes as opposed to the same ol' same ol'

[steep flower]

Not really; arby is primarily melee class while vet is range, arby is strong because it gets alot of buffs from interacting with enemies, vet gets alot of buffs that are active all the time or when you don’t interact with the enemy

[unreal nova]

Thing is, is like oggy. You get so much shit for basically free.

[hybrid plover]

see, that's what I thought. And then you give arby the agrippina shotgun, revolver, autoguns

i feel that's a part of what's wrong with arbites design right now. if the ranged weapons stayed at close range, the class would honestly be a lot more leveled out

[unreal nova]

Vet is minmax or suffer.

[pseudo fiber]

I'm fine waiting the time will pass either way I just hope there's some good variety when the rework releases

[unreal nova]

And I suffer for getting field improv and born leader.

[hybrid plover]

and they're so forgiving with their tree, and execution order existing as a whole makes them very good at just being another, way easier vet

it's dumb

[steep flower]

Of all classes zel needs it more tbh; vet has choices in build making… zel has ‘the build’

[unreal nova]

My breakpoints are atrocious lul.

[hybrid plover]

you know

fair

Zealot is just

[steep flower]

Be glad it cannot use a flamer/las weapons

[hybrid plover]

OH I AM

DON'T YOU WORRY

GOD I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW BAD IT'D BE IF THEY HAD LAS WEAPONS

[steep flower]

Recon las & las pistol

[untold mulch]

Oh god

[unreal nova]

Does it matter?

They'll still hoover up every tin.

[hybrid plover]

i mean they wouldn't even have shocktroop to rely on so it'd be even worse

[unreal nova]

Does it matter when they hoover up 90% of ammo?

[untold mulch]

I have no clue how someone using Recon and Shocktrooper can run out of ammo (nvm, Havoc maybe?)

[hybrid plover]

That's my point

[unreal nova]

Shoot hordes and crushers.

[hybrid plover]

It'd be more like 100%

[unreal nova]

No. That 10% is oggies.

[untold mulch]

My trustworthy Shovel doing both (Why tf the shovel is better at this than the Chainsword in my exprience)

[hybrid plover]

That's if the oggie can get to the ammo

[unreal nova]

For their rumblers.

[steep flower]

Altho the only range weapon choices ppl consider for arby (apart from class specific) are;
Boltgun
Bolt pistol
Zarona revolver (rarely)
Agri Cshotgun (rarely)

[unreal nova]

That's the joke.

[hybrid plover]

😔

[unreal nova]

90% arby, 10% oggy.

You just staring.

[hybrid plover]

Agri shotgun is starting to become a well known staple for arby tbh

[grand perch]

here i am with graia vigi on arby (its painfully bad comapred to vet with graia)

[unreal nova]

Shotpistol is the safe option.

[hybrid plover]

Been seeing it come up a lot

Which makes sense

[steep flower]

Even in havoc you don’t if you micromanage it; the problem is ppl are dumb and run out of ammo even on shock trooper recon las build

[hybrid plover]

Since it's honestly very, very, very good now.

[untold mulch]

Lately I've been running Brauto because that suppression sometimes makes a lot more comfier to gun in the middle of a horde

and I also just hipfire always anyways

[hybrid plover]

as you should

the only brauto you actually want to brace sometimes is the graia

[untold mulch]

Nah I mean I don't ADS with anything

I just prefer hipfiring any gun

[steep flower]

Never seen one use one; all use the executioner ones

[untold mulch]

Brauto just makes it a lot more comfier

[untold mulch]

I wish Graia ROF was on normal fire tbh

[hybrid plover]

definitely been seeing them pop up more lately than usual

[steep flower]

Class specific as i mentioned is not mentioned

[hybrid plover]

probably because people are realizing it got a massive glow up

[steep flower]

Maybe on lower lvs but not in havoc

[hybrid plover]

nah even in havoc for me

[untold mulch]

Maul and Shield
Pistol and Shield

For the maximum funny

dude carrying two different shields for the ocassion

[steep flower]

It always was good tbh; ppl just used easier options cause lazy & copycat

[hybrid plover]

not nearly as often as exe shotguns but it's been coming around

[steep flower]

One for fighting and one for dining

[hybrid plover]

good but the ammo economy wasn't great before

[unreal nova]

To be fair, bistol is for impact lone wulf.

Boom bigger.

[hybrid plover]

now, honestly, you don't even need the 25% ammo node on vet if you're using it with survivalist

[steep flower]

Tbh… i used accatran before buffs on vet and i did nit had problems with ammo, nor i have them now (and i use is extensively)

[unreal nova]

That's my tank build.

[steep flower]

You wanna tho cause obvious range class & superiority complex

[steep flower]

Tankrien, the Crat

[steep flower]

[hybrid plover]

yeah don't get me wrong, you'll still use it because it just makes the most sense

but i can tell i almost preserve ammo to the point where i barely even pick it up because survivalist just gives you enough to replace it

i feel almost like i'm not using enough of it sometimes

[steep flower]

Depends if you use it alot or not tho… and on what weapon too cause if you are WS vet you most likely won’t be shooting alot

[hybrid plover]

I mean, I love weapon specialist so...

[steep flower]

Figures

[hybrid plover]

kinda hard to put that keystone down

Look I like to bonk things

Shoot and bonk

[steep flower]

I don’t use it; playstyle is good but the keystone itself does not support certain weapons; i use Focus target more & don’t even spec into right bottom tree

Imo Focus Target > WS in Havoc

[hybrid plover]

yeah I feel you. and I've seen focus target vets doing crazy numbers

[steep flower]

In havoc 1.0 WS was nice but in havoc 2.0 where you get soo many bosses FT is just much better

[hybrid plover]

maybe I should relent and use focus target since i've been using the helbore so much lately...

[steep flower]

We play tonight we can share in our… veteran shenanigans yeis?

[unreal nova]

Maybe you should have been a psyker main. All they do is bulli or gaslight.

[hybrid plover]

ADMITTEDLY, it is very late for me, but I'm down tomorrow tho

[steep flower]

Nah; i don’t have the smarts

[steep flower]

What time is it for you? Its gonna be 1pm for me

[hybrid plover]

oh we're far off huh

it's nearly 4am for me

[unreal nova]

Papa, ppl aren't on crack schedules like I am.

[hybrid plover]

i'm on my insomnia shenanigans at the moment

and admittedly, I should be taking my ass to bed

but also vet talk

[steep flower]

Do et

[steep flower]

Tomorrow we gandah togethah

[hybrid plover]

OKAY I GUESS I'LL TRY FT TOMORROW

I figure since I actually have a gun I literally don't have to worry about ammo with, it just makes sense now.

okay i'm going to knock myself out with a dumbell unconscious

goodnight all

[tall torrent]

actually yea ur right, u can dump it (at most 1 cleave difference)

I just don't think defences mean that much for it

[dense belfry]

Rate the roll

Awful, isn't it?

[steep flower]

Mk I or Mk III; up to your preference & range choice

[dark pebble]

Congrats, you’ve got the fastest stick

[steep flower]

Ofc

[dense belfry]

It says 3

[dense belfry]

I've got a fancy steel bat.

[dark pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/team-fortress-2-tf2-meet-the-scout-scout-meet-the-team-gif-14036817390269173080

[dense belfry]

I lie. A bat deals more damage than this.

[steep flower]

Thats why you take uncanny; Mk I weakness is carapace while Mk III & VII is unyielding

[dense belfry]

Are you talking about something else or the PS?

It doesn't have uncanny strikes.

[dense belfry]

Ah i see. Shovel.

[steep flower]

It does not; its a perfect dump

[steep flower]

Shovels

[steep flower]

If you wanna use 3 then get Decimator & Skullcrusher on it; you’ll destroy everything exept unyielding so bosses, bulwarks & reapers

[dense belfry]

Should I pair uncanny with hammer blow?

[steep flower]

Nah; you don’t need uncanny on mk 3 & 7 & decimator gives you better benefits that shovel needs aka cleave

[dense belfry]

Would it pair with mk 1 THO?

[steep flower]

Mk 1 does not cleave well outside of heavy att spam and it staggers well as it is; maybe decimator & hammerblow could stop rager combo but unsure but then you lose carapace dmg

[dense belfry]

More or less thinking about Maulers.

[steep flower]

@tall torrent tell me pls; will hammerblow & decimator hit stagger breakpoints on ANY shovel mark vs ragers in mid combo?

[steep flower]

Maulers are ez; its the ragers you need to be careful with when you use the shovel

[dense belfry]

Dodge backwards and shoot usually works.

[unreal forge]

It's great for boss damage, and I believe it doesn't help in reaching any breakpoints for anything below monstrosities in H40 for the Mk4, but I might be wrong

[tall torrent]

Maybe

Idk I haven’t checked shovels

I have 5 vet melee weapons unchecked
3 shovels
2 knives

[quick burrow]

i just cant get away from recon lasgun everything else feels so slow

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/total-drama-island-water-gun-chef-hatchet-chris-mclean-soaked-gif-2229415284063266104

average recon user

i would use it more often if it didnt literally feel like a water gun

[past stratus]

sometimes fun > efficiency

if you like the recon use the recon

[tame lodge]

Everytime I use the recon

I make sure to let my team know I'm using the recon

By shooting everything that moves

And going red in the first 5 minutes

[past stratus]

[grand perch]

look at this cheapskate, getting 5 minutes of ammo out of his recon

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-16875499

[grand perch]

empty by minute 3 or youre throwing

onslaught life yo

[quick burrow]

but i run out of ammo on the plasma in the first 2 minutes

[past stratus]

that's wild

if you spend ammo that fast with the plasma you probably blow yourself up

also the Plasma can one tap most elites in the game what are you shooting

[normal bay]

Groaners

Duh

What else am I going to shoot my gun at?

[tame lodge]

It has 100 cleave
Clearly it's a horde clearing gun

[past stratus]

mag dumping groaners with Plasma

[quick burrow]

i blow myself up at least 3x per match

[tame lodge]

Rookie numbers honestly

[quick burrow]

in my defence i never played plasma before and took it straingt into auric

only blew myself up once! and i did decent

[steep flower]

If it does achieve a breakpoint i’m gonna fly to the moon

[steep flower]

I shall await the results patiently

[elder vessel]

recon las gaming

[tame lodge]

This post was fact checked by true recon gamers

[faint beacon]

Recon players blissfully unaware of the poxwalker behind them

Just as the god emperor intended

[past stratus]

"I shoot my gun because it is fun" says the recon enjoyer, an statement that absolutely mind breaks the sweaty havoc player

[faint beacon]

Ammo tins consumed 20

[last depot]

Did they rework recon lasguns? I remember them differently

Havent touched em for almost 2 years

[hollow ibex]

They got buffed

[quick burrow]

its super soaker simulator its a blast

plasma goes for flak/maniac with blaze away and gets hot ?

[elder vessel]

its a bore

you just kinda stand there and hold m1

riveting.

[signal garden]

@elder vessel I feel like you described what most people wanted when the darktide trailer was new

Granted I think it's stupid some people were complaining that a wh40k game had "too much of an emphasis on melee combat"

[elder vessel]

if i hear those words come out of anybody mouth in my lifetime

[signal garden]

But most people want that guardsmen experience if they ain't never played Warhammer or tide

[elder vessel]

it'll be too soon

[serene bough]

does anyone know how the flamer's backpack explosion works

[elder vessel]

dont shoot the backpack (or do its funny)

[serene bough]

sometimes i notice it does just a small fire aoe and othertimes a huge amount of damage to enemies in the vicinity

whats the criteria for this

[signal garden]

@serene bough I think there's 2 tiers of leaks

[analog mural]

Flamer backpack is triggered by ranged damage

[signal garden]

1 is you can headshot to defuse

2 is holy shit he's panicking and so should you

And then any kill after phase 2 is gonna = a fire barrel I think, so ho damage

[serene bough]

that doesnt trigger it

sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt

[signal garden]

Are you sure it's not 1? Because he acts normal with a few leaks

And this is if you use a pea shoota

[analog mural]

When they introduced the mechanic enemy shots could trigger flamer backpacks and it was invisible

[signal garden]

Fatshark did that?

[analog mural]

It was a bug but yes

[serene bough]

Tier 1 backpack fuse, headshot kill body shot kill

okay nvm i figured it out i think

he has to detonate without someone shooting to kill him

guess you need the tier 2 explosion to trigger the damage but naturally exploding has a much larger AoE

learn something new everyday i guess

[signal garden]

So what you're saying is spicy or not kill it asap

Do both have the same property I wonder, one is fire, the other is the barrel

[serene bough]

if you dont kill it ASAP and let it naturally detonate it'll do more damage

[signal garden]

In many ways the poxburst issue

[serene bough]

i mean realistically, someone in game is gonna probably kill him before naturally detonating

but its kinda good to know

[red fox]

is block efficiency useless? on Curios

[serene bough]

looks like its just some flat chunk of health since dog, sniper, and flamer are all taking different damage numbners

juicy

[hollow ibex]

pretty bad, esp on vet

[signal garden]

It's not useless but I'm my opinion block efficiency is trumped by raw stamina and good stamina management

[hollow ibex]

same as barrels iirc

where it just chunks a portion

[signal garden]

Yeah vet has 2 issues, poor Regen rate and poor Regen start

[serene bough]

never realized it only behaves as a barrel if you let him naturally detonate though

[red fox]

i see, i dunno if im confident in going down t o 1 toughness curio tho

[hollow ibex]

oh huh

interesting

[signal garden]

The real question is how often you died to getting ganged on by ragers

[past stratus]

why would you go down to 1 toughness curio?

[hollow ibex]

you could do 2x toughness 1x hp

[signal garden]

Or overrun because you ran out of stamina to push-attack

[hollow ibex]

i still do 1x toughness 2x hp on builds with both 25 toughness nodes

[signal garden]

Because those are very real issues with vet

[red fox]

oh i feel like i need the 3 stam curio tho

the 1 stam 2 toughness basic bitch is what im running

[hollow ibex]

you can honestly drop stam

[signal garden]

You definitely don't need 3 stam curio

[tall torrent]

3x toughness curio perks is almost as much as a toughness curio

[serene bough]

actually, maybe not

[hollow ibex]

i thought a stam curio was necessary

[red fox]

I've been getting good at dodging back away from them D:

[hollow ibex]

but then i dropped it, and realized it hardly mattered for me

[red fox]

a +3 stam curio i mean

[serene bough]

i cant really tell the criteria

[signal garden]

1 stamina curio is soft mandatory for frequent sprinting and if you do duelling sworddahgrt

[red fox]

huh really

[signal garden]

Because you finna eat dirt if you run out of stamina to push a burster

[hollow ibex]

i don't take stam curio on any character

unless i'm memeing with deadshot or something

[red fox]

you think health is more worth?

[past stratus]

I run 2 toughness 1 HP with stam regen as a perk on them. I don't really feel that I run out of stamina that often

[red fox]

I've never gotten a 21% tho 🥲

[past stratus]

unless I do something stupid

[signal garden]

The forbidden skavenslave of darktide is you need to push a burster and some douche squad all spikes you and you run out of stamina to push

[serene bough]

Stam curio on vet makes sense since vet has pretty poor stamina profiles

[red fox]

i feel like im constantly running out of stam chasing my teammates

[serene bough]

i run two toughness 1 stam

[hollow ibex]

on auric, 200+ hp is a very good breakpoint to have, tho kinda ass to build for

otherwise i think having one health curio is a good choice still

rather than going all touhgness

[tall torrent]

1 health curio good

[signal garden]

2 TGH 1 stamina is solid

[past stratus]

1 HP curio is so you don't get blown up by shit one shot

[hollow ibex]

yeah

[red fox]

that does happen often enough

I don't think i ever die cuz im out of stam

i die cuz i didn't play pixel perfect for a split second

[signal garden]

Do you use a dagger/DS though?

[red fox]

and get one shot through my toughness 🥲

[tall torrent]

u can just do health/toughness/stamina then run 3x toughness perks lol

[past stratus]

like I said, Stamina regen as a perk on the curios will probably help with your stamina issues

[red fox]

Nah im a power sword rashad im basic, i run DS on my reconlas build only

[unreal forge]

plasma gun vet
ignores every single ammo bag I ping for him
runs red in the second section of the sewer in magistrati oubliette
plays melee-only until we wipe in the next room

[red fox]

That delay tho oof

[unreal forge]

even if he grabbed those ammo bags he would only get like 18% ammo

[hollow ibex]

sprint efficiency > stam regen on vet anyway

[signal garden]

They really need to retool vet and zEalot nodes though, and I'm sure they will

[past stratus]

I mean if you're putting yourself in situations where you run out of stamina by blocking I'd say it is more of a position issue than anything

[last depot]

Why

[hollow ibex]

dogshit stam regen delay makes stam regen much less valuable

[serene bough]

left image is forced detonation, right image is natural detonation

[unreal forge]

just do this

[signal garden]

The fact that vet has the two delay nodes on opposite ends of the talent tree is insane

[serene bough]

its weird bc it doesnt seem to matter for the reaper, they just take 3k damage

[hollow ibex]

left just looks like barrel fire tbh

[signal garden]

And that's just to have acceptable stamina delay

[red fox]

Can't tell if this is awful advice

[unreal forge]

I tried it and found it unappealing to say the least. Not really using stamina all that much on Vet

[serene bough]

you can also see the sniper flung to the right

whereas forced detonation he's still there

[signal garden]

Stamina is definitely useful on psyker though

[unreal forge]

if you get a +3 stamina curio and those stam delay OMs you could cosplay a worse Zealot even better

[signal garden]

Honestly though if you sprint alot or a weapon has a crazy good push attack it's a strong case for STA

[red fox]

😭

[hollow ibex]

you really want to path to 2 nodes on opposite sides of the tree on the most heavily taxed class in the game?

think about it lol

[red fox]

sometimes

[unreal forge]

Zealot has 0.75s stam delay btw
but 1.5/s stam regene

[red fox]

when i see how long that stam regens

[serene bough]

forced left, natural right

[red fox]

i do

[signal garden]

It's true stamina on marked targets and stamina on headshot are "cheaper"

[unreal forge]

it's not that bad depending on weapon

[past stratus]

I used Sprint Efficiency and it is good but I prefer Stamina regen

[signal garden]

Than going for delay nodes at least

[unreal forge]

weapons like Helbore Mk4 don't require many points to get its oneshots

[signal garden]

Is mark4 the one with the overhead

[unreal forge]

yesh

the useless melee one

[serene bough]

@tall torrent any idea how these flamer explosions work

[signal garden]

Fuck that attack I can't believe it has no cleave or heavy attack

[unreal forge]

some guy here said that Helbore Mk4 was probably better than Plasma Gun and I'm inclining to agree

[signal garden]

Ffs if they gave it like a heavy sweep it would be lit

[tame lodge]

It has higher cleave than mk3 and mk5

Tf you on

[signal garden]

Yeah because plasma gun scavenge is trash

[tame lodge]

[past stratus]

I think it is objectively more efficient in Havoc because of the neutral to positive ammo economy

[unreal forge]

like, it has crazy one-shots, goated boss damage, the best ammo efficiency in the game

[signal garden]

@tame lodge it doesn't linger like the heavy stab

[past stratus]

the helbore MkIV

[serene bough]

okay so, i also think critical strikes on forced detonation triggers the major explosion

[tame lodge]

Still has higher cleave

[signal garden]

I don't know about best efficienct, there's the one with the 3 ammo light shot and the 4 ammo heavy shot

[serene bough]

whereas naturally detonating always triggers

[unreal forge]

it's more than efficient enough

[signal garden]

@tame lodge if it barely works in practice it barely works when I'm trying to avoid semantics

[unreal forge]

you probably don't even need the + ammo talent

[signal garden]

It's not that one needs the ammo talent

[unreal forge]

I've been trying it in 40s and I just never get below 50-60% for the whole mission

[signal garden]

It's that the things after the ammo talent are kinda nice

[unreal forge]

oh right, I got confused to its placement

[past stratus]

with Shock Trooper and decent aim ammo becomes not even a thing with the MkIV

[signal garden]

I imagine that talent is getting moved to an "important spot"

[tame lodge]

No man
You said that it had no cleave
Which is just wrong
It has 6.5 cleave, higher than 3 cleave from mk3 and 5

[signal garden]

When they rework the damn tax

[tame lodge]

You can say that you don't like it

You just can't lie like that

[serene bough]

ok yeah

[signal garden]

Here we go being semantic

[unreal forge]

problem is that it has a stupidly slow attack

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/travis-scott-travis-scott-apology-travis-astroworld-gif-23723017

[serene bough]

if you land a critical hit on the flamer in his 2nd animation he'll detonate like a barrel

[signal garden]

The overhead will never hit multiple targets in practice because it barely lingers

[serene bough]

if you just kill him without a crit he'll just create a puddle

[signal garden]

And that's just a fact of how janky that attack is

[serene bough]

and if you just let the flamer naturally detonate, he'll behave like a barrel

[signal garden]

At least the stab lingers

[past stratus]

I think you can test the overhead bayonet in the psykhanium right now and see that it does cleave fairly easy. It is just dogshit animation

[serene bough]

the first animaiton doesnt trigger that explosion at all but will leave the puddle crit or no crit

[signal garden]

Right, which is what I said

In practice if I'm not hitting many targets it's a dog shit cleave

[past stratus]

if I could slot the stab on the MKIV I would without thinking twice

[signal garden]

It's like how the Arby's maul isn't a lot of things on paper

But in practice it's literally the best at everything lol

[past stratus]

I think the Bayonet on the MkIV is serviceable just not as good as the other Mks

[signal garden]

Serviceable against what, one enemy at a time?

It needs like 10 effective dodges, or a party or something

I mean the real answer is just to hipfire beam cleave through shit

But there's really no reason for the overhead bayonet slash to be pure unfiltered dog shit

[red fox]

You';re kinda selling me on it

[hollow ibex]

helbore is very good now these days

[unreal forge]

it just needed that swap speed buff lol

[tame lodge]

🧑‍🚀

[unreal forge]

think they should still improve the Mk4's melee it feels terrible

[serene bough]

after playing around with the IIb

[unreal forge]

like legit never a good time to use it

[serene bough]

i think the best way to use is to just max out its dmg

[past stratus]

if I got a couple of groaners spawning behind me as I try to shoot bad dudes ahead, which is the most common thing to happen. I can pretty reliably use the bayonet to kill them and keep shooting. Or at least buy me space to move. I wouldn't seriously fight something strong or a horde with the MkIV bayonet but it is not completely useless, that's just exaggeration imo

[serene bough]

sounds kinda obvious but still

[past stratus]

you can make an argument that the stab from other Mks can kill even Crushers but if the Mk IV had that, it would be griefing for all Vets to use any other gun

[signal garden]

Crazy damage bug aside helbore used to have 2x its current melee attack speed and a remarkably forgiving headshot window

Now it has a frustratingly weird headshot window for the stab and half the brutal attack speed, which is a shame as I would prefer the return of either even if it means settling for the equip time

Not to mention zero attack speed scaling which I'm pretty sure it benefitted from 2-3 patches ago, and could use some blessings that affect the melee portion

Because what the fuck ogryn gets melee stab blessings

[tall torrent]

It has some downsides as well

[red fox]

Whats the downside

[signal garden]

In a game where ogryns keep knocking shit down and all over the place and now you've got cyber mastiffs fucking with your headshots

You wish friendly fire was a thing

[unreal forge]

rending on helbore?

[red fox]

Actually mastiffs fuck up my shots so much on the bolter

[unreal forge]

don't they all already do great carapace damage?

[serene bough]

this is iLas mk2

[signal garden]

And all the paid cosmetics have the fucking worst sight picture

[unreal forge]

also, no demo team

[red fox]

I really don't want to play without demo team

[unreal forge]

you can't leave home without demo team

[tall torrent]

Slow draw to fire so u can’t transition between melee and ranged that quickly
It gives ur team a lot of ammo but if ur team doesn’t make use of that then it’s sorta a wasted upside
It also basically does not suppress enemies

[unreal forge]

you're missing out on like 300x more grenades

[signal garden]

Like the vostrayan rifle sight picture is fucking awful, and they improved the model from one feature less slab to... A sight post that obscures your target

[serene bough]

i mean yeah, the point is not to spam grenades its to shoot things

[red fox]

Im using a bolter anyway i feel like those drawbacks aren't that bad

[serene bough]

im just testing for auric i wouldnt bother bringing iLas into havoc currently

[signal garden]

Vet is the only class that can spam grenades, although only in histg

[tame lodge]

You should

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-gif-502627409480164820

[serene bough]

in havoc 1.0 i brought almost always bc shooters were such a major threat

[unreal forge]

spamming grenades just tends to be better value than a lot of other nodes you can bring

[hollow ibex]

some of them are p2w and have better irons tho

[serene bough]

now that the major threat is elite deathballs of armor its not really worth bringing

[serene bough]

you can remove a node if you wanna grab demo team

but this set up will 1-tap everything short of ogryns, mutants and ragers

still need to test whether or not 25% rending is needed though

[signal garden]

I think the problem with iLas is the poor beam width

Extremely unforgiving precision for this type of game

[hollow ibex]

ilas has a lot of issues tbh

[serene bough]

hit box is small, recoil is large, if you dont bring exe stance you need determined

[signal garden]

Relatively easy to get headshots on helbore and plasma gun

[past stratus]

MMF 😵‍💫

[serene bough]

and overall, its just more difficult to use relative to recon where you can just bullet hose at head length and get the same result

[signal garden]

Shit, it's super easy to get headshots on the damn recon because the beam stream doubles as a targeting laser

[unreal forge]

ilas' problem is that recon lasgun exists and it's basically the evolutionary better of it, like comparing a musket to an AK

facts

[signal garden]

Whereas the iLas has huge recoil

And some of the worst blessings I've ever seen

[serene bough]

were i incharge of balancing weapons, spammy/bullet hose weapons would be less effective than semi-auto/burst precision

[signal garden]

Zealot can use iLas better since ammo economy and innate crit for all those damn crit blessings

[serene bough]

but thats just my opinion

[signal garden]

Not to mention all the good guns right now are the best if they have superb hipfire

[serene bough]

err, i wouldnt bring ilas on anyone other than vet

[signal garden]

Like the laspistol

Vet can't do las right

No stamina to fend off bullshit

[serene bough]

?

[signal garden]

At least zealot can make space with superb melee performance

[serene bough]

shocktrooper alone makes las weapons better on vet

[signal garden]

Not to mention actually use that -spread/recoil on evade

Yeah but the iLas is stupid efficient on ammo

It's the one weapon you could bring on zealot, use it liberally, and not conceivably run close to empty

[serene bough]

ilas vet is much better at breakpoints and stability than zealot

ive never seen a zealot bring an ilas before

[quick burrow]

@elder vessel would you say..its a Helbore?

[signal garden]

It's true I haven't either, but I'm saying you could make a better case for it

[serene bough]

i dont agree to that at all

[signal garden]

Because the iLas needs a ton of rethinking to make sense

[elder vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/pig-smack-slap-gif-16916525473105238244

[past stratus]

I wish the Ilas was better just because it is the iconic guard weapon

[serene bough]

buffs to the ilas would likely include slightly better damage profiles against flak/unyielding, and more buffs towards stability/handling

[signal garden]

I don't even need the damage profiles

It has huge problems with aimed shots

Very frustrating to use

Factor in suppression and your team

[serene bough]

yes, thats why im saying the bigger buffs should be twoards stability/handling

[signal garden]

And the only head I end up wanting to aim at is my own

[past stratus]

Fatshark won't let me be the guardsman the God Emperor wants me to be, armed with a shitty las rifle and a shovel

[sharp ingot]

....

I wanna stab melk

[signal garden]

They need to take inspiration from the last fusil from space marine 2

[clever hedge]

Vet buff = determined is a passive. Not a node

[serene bough]

i mean if built right the ilas can be effective (at least for auric)

there's just easier options that are similar or more effective, and its also not a great choice in the current meta of havoc

[signal garden]

Yeah but you have to work hard, so hard it's not nearly as fun in practice as in your head

[unreal forge]

thats the shit the moebian snipers use

[signal garden]

No I think they just use a longlas

[past stratus]

actual good idea, thematically and mechanically

[serene bough]

the fact that its more difficult to use is why i enjoy it

[signal garden]

Las fusil is for astartes hands

[quick burrow]

got it stupid gun

[signal garden]

@serene bough and for relatively worse paypoff

[unreal forge]

what's determined? is that the suppression immunity?

[serene bough]

i dont midn it requires more difficulty if the pay off is better

[clever hedge]

Yes

[signal garden]

Facts

[serene bough]

i know, i'm saying the buffs should focus to increase pay off

[signal garden]

But the payoff is most certainly not better

[serene bough]

but part of that would be needing to tune down spammy options

[signal garden]

A simply beam width change and a dimmer optic light would be nice

[unreal forge]

ah yes buff the gun by nerfing the better options

[signal garden]

Nah I'm not for nerfing bullet hoses

[unreal forge]

because recon lasgun is obviously OP

[quick burrow]

whats teh build for helbore still shout WS vet ?

[signal garden]

Op at what, annoying the hell out of people?

[serene bough]

im just saying you're never going to find a place for a semi-auto rifle if you can just use a bullet hose option and get the same result

[unreal forge]

the difference is that the ilas has better precision over long ranges

[serene bough]

its just always going to be easier to hold M1 and spray

[unreal forge]

and uh. that's it really

[serene bough]

M1 spray is still better overall

[unreal forge]

well yeah that's the nature of a horde shooter

[signal garden]

@unreal forge I hate the iLas for long range precision, and I mean it in the most scientific way

[serene bough]

no, thats the poor balance of a semi-auto that will always underperform an M1 bullet hose bc it's universally going to be more effective