veteran-class

[ember nest]

the 13g is like...fine at it

but it's certainly not "one of the best" imo

[round crystal]

on veteran

whats better?

cata sword for sure

maybe shock maul

[little path]

combat axe, power sword

uuuuuh

[ember nest]

PS mows through hordes

[little path]

those are the better horde clear wepaons

[round crystal]

oh yeah, PS for sure

[ember nest]

just more annoying to use

[round crystal]

but you have to put up with ps..

[little path]

Dueling sword is still stupid powerful

combat axe is in theory the best weapon on vet now

[round crystal]

i pretend it doesn't exist

[little path]

according to path.exe

the guy who wrote the vet guide

I assume he did a shit load of math

[round crystal]

i am using the tactical axe w/ weapon master a lot lately

i believe it. combat axe is very chunky, very satisfying

[little path]

This is a reminder that the ogryn slapping a dude across the face

has more stagger

than him slamming a piece of metal into their skull

[round crystal]

good for ogryn

they got their dream buffs

[little path]

this is a reminder that vet punching a dude with his bare hands

has more stagger than a sword being swung into their chest

[round crystal]

the uh sword was uh, made for stealth

they don't know they're being stabbed

would also love for all classes to have at least one combo weapon

staff and sword psyker mayhaps, or staff that can be toggled into melee staff.
and kind of pistol and melee weapon for vet.
zealot gets dual melee weapons yes-yes
ogryn dual wields two zealots

[little path]

personally I hope the lucius gets a massive rework

The Altfire instead of just using the bayonet now toggles to melee mode. ADS changes to block and LMB is just standard melee with existing bayonet attacks and you can push attack

Then the Charge mechanic is changed to shooting resets your charge and it automatically fills up

so you can pace your shots or spam fire

[signal zinc]

just ditch the charge mechanic and make the draw speed faster and boom, it's better

[uncut pebble]

Yes, ditch the charge mechanic, the one thing that makes it unique from normal lasguns

That is totally a valid and sane thing to do.

(uncharged shots do fine damage, charged shots are just better, you don't have to engage with charged shots if you don't want to)

[empty aurora]

Imo the single best buff they could give the Helbore rifles is to make the sights not the worst thing ever

Same goes for a lot of guns that use irons imo

[hot crag]

Hey can any expert kind enough to list me by rank the top 5 or top 10 most viable melee weapon for veteran especially for high end havoc? (Excluding dueling sword)

[barren girder]

power sword mk 6 is the one i hear the most abt

dunno about others

the mastery skin for helbore's iron sights are so much worse than the default wtf 💀

[empty aurora]

"Let's give a weapon that rewards precision the worst fucking ironsights ever"

[plain osprey]

Also, make the bracing time shorter. Should be near Instant sich as with the normal lasguns

[normal bay]

You can charge them up before you fully sight in now I think

Nice qol

[civic apex]

Meta stealth vet build

[plain osprey]

I mean, the sights are garbage anyways on almost any gun lol

[normal bay]

Still can't see shit when I do ADS though

[tall torrent]

always been a thing

[normal bay]

Shows how much I've used it

[vague wigeon]

Tbh it would lose its aestethic if it had collimator sight

but yeah,i agree that it sucks

And it was even worse

Iirc they have changed the camera making it a bit more useful

[spare mica]

What gun feels most like the ogryn’s heavy stubber

[empty aurora]

Its current ability as a melee weapon isn't good enough to warrant such a long switch time, cuz I imagine it's intended to be your ranged and melee all in one, hence the long swap time

[tall torrent]

They did

[empty aurora]

Helbore can do some insane single shot damage, but it's just not a very "usable" weapon

[tall torrent]

It’s fairly usable rn, just horrible sights

Hoping they can fix the vostroyan skin’s bugged sight alignment soon

[grand perch]

its kind of odd you lose the charge when unzooming, when the opposite keeps charging come to think of it

[tall torrent]

FatShark trolls us on the daily

[plain osprey]

We play this game willingly
We're trolling ourselves

[thorn lark]

40k technology in a nutshell

[grand perch]

im so sick of pus hardened

hopefully it will go away tomorrow and never come back

[elder fiber]

Woe, blight be upon ye

[grand perch]

ill take blight over pus

[vague wigeon]

Can't stand shifted breakpoints?

Tbh me too, but i rather hate it because when i see human with green lights, i always think it's a scab gunner

So neuron activation happens and i waste ammo

[tall torrent]

2x effective health vs ranged is pure cringe

Reaper with 12000 effective health vs ranged

[vague wigeon]

I know, i agree

All modifiers than restrict or render weapons ineffective are generally cringe

This is why i despise havoc, where only melee builds are relevant

Because oopsie, no ammo

And meleeing everything is just boring

[tall torrent]

Melee is the main game

[vague wigeon]

In VT, not is DT

[tall torrent]

It is for DT as well

[vague wigeon]

DT supposed to be AT LEAST 50-50

[tall torrent]

Nah

DT melee/ranged is ideally 75-25

[vague wigeon]

At fact, it you should be able to go full ranged

This is why i say that DT needs something like bardin pistols for ranged classes like vet

Bc psyker has them

Or L4D pistols

[tall torrent]

DT’s ranged combat is not good enough to be the main gameplay loop

[vague wigeon]

Untrue

[tall torrent]

It just isn’t built for it lol

[vague wigeon]

It is

Meanwhile melee is much simplified in comparison to VT, because mele supposed to be sub-option

Simple example - size of the weapon means nothing in DT

In VT it will stuck in the interior, wall etc

In DT - not

[unreal nova]

Why argue with someone who wants to play CoD:Zombies?

[vague wigeon]

Idk, bc i want to play darktide in the way it is supposed to be played

Like in was on release where highest diffs were clearable without melee

And if you looks at game and enemy design - you'll see that it's supposed to be a horde shooter as well

Leaving VY-experience for zealots

[unreal nova]

Naw, hybird.

[vague wigeon]

And even zealots have flamer

[tall torrent]

I’m not bothered to
His takes are incredible, just not in a good way

[white minnow]

my favorite ranged game where they removed enemy mechanics that mitigated the oppressiveness of player melee (ranged hitstun while sprinting, ranged knockback for some enemies) and with realistically small hitboxes that definitely do not gatekeep certain weapons past a certain threshold of skill

my favorite ranged game where suppression sucks balls for a few weapons

[unreal nova]

Oh. But tbh, 10:1 with WS kinda tells you what they expected.

[tall torrent]

Besides I’m on vacation + need to finish veteran sections in guide after I’m back

[unreal nova]

Guide soon tm?

[sonic kayak]

Is it? This is a video game representation of the tabletop where most of the best weapons in the game are melee? 🤔

[tall torrent]

Yea I’ll try to finish all veteran parts by the end of July

Maybe publish by then

And I can work on the other parts in a separate WIP guide file

[vague wigeon]

They removed knockback because group of ranged enemies, after hitting you once, could push and pin you to the wall without a chance to espace.

Also they didn't removed it, but made it weaker

[tall torrent]

And I can copy paste into the published version when needed

[vague wigeon]

And still it doesn't change the fact that melee-only is boring and game itn't supposed to be played like this

[unreal nova]

Yay. Something to link lul.

[white minnow]

almost like it's a punishment for being out of position

[sonic kayak]

A Warhammer 40k game not meant to played in melee, ah yes

[unreal nova]

Wallbang on players is never fun.

[white minnow]

it's pretty obvious that the ranged combat was not quite figured out in this game, and they decided to just introduce QoL that improved the experience of mele combat

[sonic kayak]

Even DoW is meant to be played in melee, mostly

[white minnow]

it'd be fine if ranged was better
I recognize why it's unfun and why players do it, because I was one of the players who always got pinned
and the better solution would've been to cap it/slowdown/etc. instead of a straight up removal

[unreal nova]

To be fair, there's player suppression already.

[white minnow]

that could also be improved

[unreal nova]

And adding it means ppl will only take charges.

[white minnow]

well yeah, if you want to melee bruise into ranged patrols

like, consider the hypothetical where ranged combat was actually good and you'd want to engage against ranged enemies with your guns on classes besides vet (and exceptions)

but obviously, we don't live in that world, and we live in the context where they removed those things to suit the fact that they did not figure out the ranged identity of this game and decided to relent to melee gameplay

[unreal nova]

With okay enough shooting to be passable, even if tbh, is still better than some shooters.

[white minnow]

yeah, it's still neat

[unreal nova]

So engage with it, but not as a hard primary. I still think vet should be around 35:65 max.

[sonic kayak]

tbf without those mechanics, ranged would be even more stale

Shooting enemies that don't flinch or run for cover

which Havoc gives us anyways

[unreal nova]

And that's really running a hard gun build.

[sudden cedar]

You use either Ranged Weapons or Melee Weapons as the situation demands it. Trying to force a ratio is a bad idea.

[sonic kayak]

Matter of fact is, your gun is for things you can't reach with your melee, which even L4D does in a way if I'm gonna be honest

You find a melee then you don't even need to reload and it's stronger than a sidearm, unless you like sniping with the Magnum

[unreal nova]

I only dual pistols till finding a melee, used to firing it at stupid speed.

[sonic kayak]

Exactly

Oh, and you found a slicing melee like the axe or katana? Then you don't even need the pistols

[unreal nova]

Though is mostly cos I sit with uzi or smg.

Less arguing.

[sonic kayak]

Even KF does that to a degree, at least KF1 more

[unreal nova]

Unless you play that one class.

[sonic kayak]

Support

[vague wigeon]

Warhammer 40k game not meant to be played in melee. Yes.

[unreal nova]

Shush. Medic life, I know.

[sonic kayak]

Support is the most OP shit in KF1 and it's not even funny

[vague wigeon]

You are not the names comissar who charges into CSM protected by plot armor

You are supposed to be lasgun dude nearby him

[sonic kayak]

But you are still a denizen of 40k, and in 40k, you melee

Even squad leaders melee

Not only the commissars

[vague wigeon]

You don't

You shoot.

Guardsmen shoot

Clerics shoot

[sonic kayak]

Yes, shooting things that your melee can't reach

Which is the point

[vague wigeon]

Even ogryns, while having they guns desighed to be used as clubs, shoot

[sonic kayak]

Look at the Tau

[vague wigeon]

Because gunlugger ogryns are a thing

In fact, only melee specialist are going to melee

[vague wigeon]

"Can't reach" so everything

Because most of the units aren't even equipped with melee weapons

Even space marines do bear bolters with just a knife

[sonic kayak]

And because now you are specced into ranged, you are generally weaker in melee

Which will tie you up, and you wasted your points

[vague wigeon]

Guardsmen are also armed only with bayonet knifes and shovels usually

Because they are SUPPOSEd to melee, i guess

And because of this, i guess, melee regiments are actualy pretty rare and names ones

Like longknifes or attilan rough riders

[atomic void]

they're armed with "basic" weaponry cause the guard is a horde army

[normal bay]

Guardsmen are not armed with shovels, not even the krieg. That's usually just desperation

[atomic void]

they're meant to go and eat shit

[sonic kayak]

The point is not supposed to anything, the point is you advance to get into melee and attack whatever survived your gun barrage

[normal bay]

They do usually have knives

[vague wigeon]

Are space marines horde army too?

Skitarii?

Stormstoopers?

[sonic kayak]

Marines with knives are still melee specialists lol

[past stratus]

You melee because Warhammer 40k Darktide is a horde game.

[atomic void]

no marines are like special hit squads, they dont attack in massive numbers

or engage in frontline wars from what ive read

[tall torrent]

There’s shooting phase and there’s melee phase

However the most epic duels in 40k, if not psychic, are usually in melee

[vague wigeon]

Main weapon of tactical space marine with standart loadout is bolter

[atomic void]

marines are not the guard

and they're trained to deal with every threat

[vague wigeon]

And for the guard it's a lsgun

Ranged-ranged

Scion - hellgun. Ranged

[sonic kayak]

And bolters are mid, which is why you supplement with heavy weapons, and you protect them with melee

[atomic void]

and like path said, 40k loves its medieval in space fighting

every funny major battle between named character turns intoa melee fight

[normal bay]

40k is a fantasy setting in space lol

[sonic kayak]

In most cases you can just jump, TP, or transport to the enemy line and ignore shooting entirely lol

[vague wigeon]

It does, for named characters. But it doesn't mean that game should abbandon supposed playstyle

Like like turning VT into shooter

[atomic void]

ill do u one better, darktide is not a game where u get to just shoot and not engage in melee
gunluggers are cringe

[vague wigeon]

Now bows are your main weapons

It's stupid

[atomic void]

and psykers who cant cut it in melee are cringe

every good build should cover both aspects

[vague wigeon]

Bruh, you are cringe

[atomic void]

yes

[sonic kayak]

It's a balancing act of both, and always has been

[atomic void]

also melee is way more fun than shooting in this game, u really dont have funny movement tech with guns

[vague wigeon]

Not true

this exactly why i decided to discuss this

Because melee is boring as hell

You just spam same combinations

you don't even adapt

Meanwhile shooting is always fun

[winged pond]

If you think you can get away with not meleeing, you're kinda dull ngl. While I love popping heads with the plasma gun, I could never play with out my power sword

[atomic void]

dont get me wrong i think darktide guns mostly feel nice and impactful (meta stats and whatever aside)
i just think the game shines in melee, there's a billion shooters out there but i cant name anything that offers when this game offers

[vague wigeon]

Like, there's literally no better horde shotters with better shootings mechanics

[past stratus]

you started your ragebait early today huh, it's Sunday morning man sheesh

[vague wigeon]

Not with plasma. I mean guns like autoguns and lasguns

Plasma isn't supposed to be shooting everything

[atomic void]

and with guns u click m1 and then click m1 and then u click m1

[vague wigeon]

Only deleting high priority targets

[atomic void]

and u get easy af headshots cause every hitbox in this game is gigantic

[winged pond]

I'm confused, are you or are you not saying you should only use your gun in this game?

[vague wigeon]

Pretty much the same with melee

[sonic kayak]

Here's the best part, you do that with all guns

[atomic void]

melee has you doing lights heavies specials pushing blocking dodging

[winged pond]

^

[sonic kayak]

Except maybe the BrAuto, and that's more for Ragers if anything

[winged pond]

I'm not actually good at melee hence why I use the power sword

[atomic void]

if melee is boring, play weapons that dont insta delete everything with lights

[winged pond]

Yeah power sword is my crutch and I fully admit it

[midnight totem]

I'm good at melee and power sword just makes it even better

[atomic void]

or just ya know, play a hybrid build and utlize everything
u can do that on every class

[sonic kayak]

Multitasking? In a video game????????????????????????

[midnight totem]

Also, Leman Russ but bad at melee? Shame on you

[winged pond]

Okay "bad at melee" is subjective. I'm better than anyone who hasn't done aurics yet lol

But yeah best build ever

Power sword, plasma gun

Mark for big bonus

then scream at them to knock them back

[midnight totem]

Veteran is just hybrid though, even when going full melee

[winged pond]

Don't forget your krak grenades!

[vague wigeon]

Meanwhile you shouldn't

[winged pond]

Krak grenade my beloved

[sonic kayak]

"shouldn't"

[vague wigeon]

iLas, autogun and autopistol are clearly designed to mow hordes

[sonic kayak]

If you play on anything below Malice maybe, sure

[vague wigeon]

ILas designed to be versatile, to be precise

[sonic kayak]

Just because a gun has ammo doesn't mean you need to waste it all

[midnight totem]

Me with a carapace destroying autopistol like

[unreal nova]

Stares at Catachan. They didn't do the Claw justice.

[vague wigeon]

This is the problem i'm adressing

Normal difficulties are narrowing viable playstyles, which is bad design

Normal aka at least aurics

[sonic kayak]

Better yet, you are an active detriment to the team if you're dumping ammo into hordes; Again, the point is your strongest weapon is generally your melee, which is reflected even on tabletop, and even if SM2 AFAIK

[normal bay]

Clearly neither large or scary enough

[winged pond]

This is something that happens in literally every video game ever that features various difficulties.

[sonic kayak]

If you want to shoot hordes then you play Killing Floor, where melee is a dedicated class

[winged pond]

I have 700 hours in Helldivers 2. You ain't gon' see my ass taking a flamethrower into bugs in a level 10 mission, you feel?

[vague wigeon]

Nope. Check games like Helldivers, Payday 2 or L4D

[sonic kayak]

Payday 2 does not have melee hordes, and in L4D, any decent player knows also to not waste ammo on hordes

[unreal nova]

Yep. Supposed to be the go to to crack beeg monsters when low or out of ammo.

[midnight totem]

But I would, and without flame resist armor too!

[vague wigeon]

Just like here we have only two clearly melee dedicated classes - orgyn and zealot

[normal bay]

You can shoot plenty of trash enemies with some gums tbh.

MMF penance taught me this.

Also, hellbore has near limitless ammo lol

[winged pond]

L4D there is literally no "build" you just grab guns and go. Helldivers, refer to what I just said. Payday, IIRC, which guns are viable do start to go down as you go higher difficulty

[winged pond]

Ok actually I lied, I would take a flamethrower if I also had a hover pack. Because killing bile titans with that combo is extra funny

[sonic kayak]

The only melee "oriented" class is Zealot, just because they get no bonuses for their ranged combat; Every other class boosts both damage

Purposely not acknowledging that is just ignorance

[unreal nova]

The only build is which weapons you favour.

[winged pond]

I would disagree that zealot is melee oriented, if only because quickdraw revolver is funny

[vague wigeon]

There's no 'build' but there are melee weapons and pistols with inifinite ammo reserve

[sonic kayak]

The game is made for both types of combat

[midnight totem]

Zealot has ranged damage bonuses for shooting... in melee range xD

[sonic kayak]

We can go in circles about what you should or shouldn't do, the point is the game is made for both, and is trying to reward you for both

But skipping 1 entirely for the other is just a no-no

If anything that's disrepecting what the devs put out for you

[winged pond]

My point remains, the stuff you can use viably dwindles as you go up in difficulty in most games. I will agree that Darktide is a little worse about it than others at times.

[vague wigeon]

Now - yeah. But main spec for ogryn is still melee, while main spec from vet still should be ranged

[sonic kayak]

But the point is Ogryn can still to both, just like Vet can do both

Ogryn always could do both

[winged pond]

I could never vibe with Ogryn. I just always felt like I was too slow, or not doing enough damage.

[vague wigeon]

No, because only melee ogryn was effective before rework

[winged pond]

Maybe I would fix one, but then the other remains an issue.

[sonic kayak]

Melee oriented isn't melee exclusive, and although Zealot does not have anything that boosts ranged damage, you still shoot things that are dangerous, like specialists

[past stratus]

Ogryn is insanely powerful currently

[vague wigeon]

Talks tha ogryn was the worst class appeared not for nothings

[sonic kayak]

Because in the blink of an eye, they can end your game

[winged pond]

Maybe I'm just playing ogryn wrong idk

I ususally use shield/heavy stubber

[sonic kayak]

Everything has a use case, that's the point

That's what it's there for

[past stratus]

go enjoy the Rumbler while it still exists

[vague wigeon]

Kinda same. Never liked it.

[sonic kayak]

To skip half of the game because it doesn't suit you is just silly

[unreal nova]

You have like 3 nodes to do with ranged. XD

[winged pond]

I will say shield is EXTRA funny when I come across a daemonhost.

aggros daemonhost
fucking sits there like a brick

[sonic kayak]

ehh but they don't really "buff" your ranged like Precision Strikes does

[vague wigeon]

Literally the reason why corruption per hit was added. At least i think so.

[sonic kayak]

Or Superiority Complex or Bring It Down, both which boost melee and ranged damage

[sonic kayak]

Also this is not true, Gunlugger Ogryn was the boss killer even pre-rework, besides THammer Zealot

Unlike THammer you don't need setup on a gunlugger

The weakness is the ammo, even now

[unreal nova]

Push ult, brrrrrrrr

[vague wigeon]

Bruh what

[normal bay]

If you can't slaughter your way through the map as a melee Ogryn, you are doing something wrong

[unreal nova]

No, I do not care if it's rumbler. Still brrrrrrrr

[vague wigeon]

Like, maybe it happened during my absense

[sonic kayak]

Achlys the OG

[ember nest]

But what about the one tha boosts close ranged damage

[winged pond]

I mostly use shield so maybe that's why, idk what the good melee weapons are.

[vague wigeon]

But i NEVER saw ranged ogryns before i came game to the game

[normal bay]

This is true.

It was just like one gun lol

[winged pond]

Also I play on auric at a minimum usually so

[sonic kayak]

Because no one knows, or knew it

[ember nest]

Nah shield is fine

[sonic kayak]

Now, instead of gunlugger Achlys Ogryn, it's Ogrynheimer

[normal bay]

Even shield can do some serious damage. Was it an FNP build by any chance?

[sonic kayak]

Same shit different day

[ember nest]

Put skullcrusher on it and

Idk what else

[normal bay]

Bromentum for normal

[sonic kayak]

But Twins? Gunlugger

DH killing? Gunlugger

[normal bay]

Plus batter = mass destruction

[winged pond]

Don't try to use any acronyms or even talent names with me, I don't have any of that shit memorized. If you showed me a picture of the skill I could tell you lmao.

[sonic kayak]

1-2-VEG? Gunlugger (and complain)

[normal bay]

The middle keystone lol

[sonic kayak]

unless you used the old stunlock strategy

[ember nest]

Feel no pain

Oh

Nvm

[winged pond]

I vaguely remember going 90% down the right path including my keystone.

With the lucky bullet and allat

[sonic kayak]

Now we have 3

[winged pond]

I was using a heavy stubber

[sonic kayak]

Ripper 6, Achlys, Ogrynheimer

[ember nest]

Alchys heavy stubber my beloved

[normal bay]

On a shield Heavy stubber build

A twin heavy stubber?

[midnight totem]

Ranged ogryns were popular even before the rework

[sonic kayak]

4, if you're crazy and use the HS as a gunlugging weapon

[winged pond]

Dawg it's like I'm saying I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing on ogryn.

[normal bay]

4, kickback is good. And I was a lugger kickback hater at one point

[winged pond]

It's FUN. But I just don't feel strong enough to take that into high level play lmao.

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[ember nest]

Alchy's heavy slots in nicely on almost any build imo

[winged pond]

I will say I've been wanting to try out the heavy stubber that's like, really low rate of fire but really high damage

[ember nest]

It just kinda exists as a "fuck that particular elite"

[winged pond]

Basically an M2 Browning lol

[sonic kayak]

First thing to understand is that ranged weapons on Ogryn are mostly for gunners/specialists, your melee can handle everything else

[ember nest]

I put surgical and the 100% weakspot crit bonus on it

[sonic kayak]

Yes, even the club, and yes, even the cleaver

[winged pond]

Perfect, that's exactly my preferred way of playing as a Veteran.

[normal bay]

You hit things until they die on meleegryn and try not to get shot to pieces by ranged. Elite stra- strat-... Plan

[sonic kayak]

A mk 3 bully club can what? 4 shot a Crusher with light attack spam?

[winged pond]

This is actually kind of funny lol

Does the ogryn have a one-shot on a crusher with melee?

[sonic kayak]

That's how it should be for most classes/weapons, except maybe Psyker

Branx pickaxe

[normal bay]

Branx two tapping Crushers with lights will never not be funny to me

[winged pond]

I hate playing psyker the most out of everyone LMAO

[sonic kayak]

A fully charged heavy will 1-tap a Crusher

Lights can 2-tap

[winged pond]

Ok maybe I need to revisit ogryn

[midnight totem]

Strike down shovels should also be able to one shot

[sonic kayak]

Take a visit to Ogryn chat, we can help you out

Oh yeah that's true, Thrust foldable shovels can one-tap too

[atomic void]

anything is vaible in aurics and below
u just gotta utilize everything

its just the way the game is meant to be played

[sonic kayak]

Heavy Sword H40

[vague wigeon]

Nah, it was just bad

[sonic kayak]

"bad"

[steep flower]

My beloved

[sonic kayak]

Nah, because it actually required "effort" over melee Ogryn

Your TTK was still higher

[ember nest]

The effort was ammo

Hand it over

[sonic kayak]

But back then, melee was extremely limited to heavy attacks

[atomic void]

gunglugger was always a thing
We call them ammo vaccums

[ember nest]

I must feed my twin linked

[atomic void]

and they could melt bosses

even better than current ogryn

[vague wigeon]

The problem is that you will run out of ammo unless you play pretty specific build.

And also that melee is a dumb solution to everything

[steep flower]

PBB ogryn is not that easy to play unlike meleegryn; all the micromanagment you need to do & less survivability; it does require work

[atomic void]

yes cause the game wants u to use both and ammo is a resource
its a 50/50 game
u cna still run specific weapons on a surivilist vet and blast forever

but its not the way the game is meant to be played

sometimes u just gotta accept that a game is designed a certain way and adapt

[vague wigeon]

This is exactly how it is supposed ton be played. Vet and psyker were supposed to kill things from the range while zealot and ogryn - in melee

[sonic kayak]

Exactly, I mean you annihilate everything on your screen but if you don't pay attention then you eat it, especially back then when lights weren't viable

[vague wigeon]

Yeah with talent reworks this is a bit changed

Now vet and psyker have melee option

[unreal nova]

Also more paper than hurr FNP or HH.

[vague wigeon]

But this is an option

[atomic void]

yeah maybe on release, that stopped being a thing with patch 13
psyker has an entire tree section dedicated to making him blend everthing in melee

vet is meant to be the all rounder class

the game evolved

and so did the classes

[vague wigeon]

The fact that game render all other option useless in a bad design

[atomic void]

there was never no full ranged option

[vague wigeon]

It literally was here

[atomic void]

u still need to defend yourself in melee

[vague wigeon]

Nah, blast point-blank

[atomic void]

then the game must have been really easy

i cant imagine just going full ranged with the current spawns
not enough ammo

[sonic kayak]

There's a reason why the original PSword was a thing with like 8 swings

[unreal nova]

Don't complain about ammo after eating 33% of map ammo, assuming a staffker.

[atomic void]

and id feel bad vaccuming the entire map, its a 4 man game

and im not taking all of it

[vague wigeon]

This is also part of the problem

since on release spawnrates were much lower

And 3 crushers were a threat

[atomic void]

games evolve and classes evolve

[vague wigeon]

In this case it evolved backwards

[atomic void]

release darktide doesnt seem as fun or chaotic
although current game is a bit too silly

but in a different way

not because u cant shoot forever but because elites are only ever a threat in bullshit numbers

game has to throw bullshit at u to lose

[vague wigeon]

Yep

This is why i say that weapons like Bardin pistols are needed.

Otherwise enemies will face to be re-balanced so AI will stop throwing tantrums, spawning 15 shotgunners and 15 ragers behind corners

For you to spam LMB and dodges a bit to move to the next horde

Arbiter is a bit fixed this problem, because you mow such hordes with 2-3 shotgun blasts

But arby 'fixed' it by being pretty OP in general

[ember nest]

Now that I think of it

Is veteran just literally ranger veteran from vermintide

[past stratus]

god I wish

[ember nest]

Except they gave mainstay and bulwark to arbites

Instead

[vague wigeon]

Ranger veteran?

[past stratus]

turn infiltrate into disengage, gimme the whole level 30 tier talents but make bombs grenades

[ember nest]

ye

[vague wigeon]

Like 2nd class Kruber or 1st class Kerillian?

I don't remember

[ember nest]

Bardin

[vague wigeon]

Oh

First Bardin class

Nvm switched it as fast as i could and never went back

So Bardin for me is just Ironbreaker and slayer

[ember nest]

He's got survivalist but better

[vague wigeon]

I just disliked it generally

I wish it was something like Kerillian

Get ammo back on headshots

[ember nest]

he's got like

literally suvivalist

like straight up

[vague wigeon]

Yeah, but ammo drops in bags

[ember nest]

and a lot of the perks are "familiar" to DT

[ember nest]

I would prefer it ngl

[vague wigeon]

Tbh with ammo return on headshots i was shooting my longbow more than i shoot in DT it feels

[past stratus]

Ranger Veteran is better at everything that Veteran tries to do in Darktide.

[vague wigeon]

Okay, this is true

[compact oracle]

toss vet some of these as default passives, ogryn gets a ton of shit for free too

[ember nest]

vet rework is required

simple as

[vague wigeon]

Yep

[past stratus]

you could unironcally give all of those to Vet nowadays and it still wouldn't be the strongest class in the game

it would be maybe a little better in comparison

[sonic kayak]

Vet is strong though

[steep flower]

Longbow huntsman kruber was a vibe

[ember nest]

somehow he got infiltrate, smoke grenades, and exe stance all in the same ability

[sonic kayak]

Vet just requires effort

[ember nest]

crazy

[past stratus]

Kruber was a vibe

[ember nest]

bush you already agreed that 2 of the abilities are trash

idgaf if his one singular ability is goated

I want more than the choice of accidentally messing up 1 build

[vague wigeon]

Depends how you looks at it

In comparison to release vet? Yep

[compact oracle]

is there any other class where ignoring the keystones entirely is a real option

(not rhetorical question)

[sonic kayak]

Outdamaging Zealot in raw damage in both melee and ranged?

[vague wigeon]

In comparison to other classes? Worst class

[vague wigeon]

Sounds like skill issues Zealot, tbh

[sonic kayak]

I didn't say they are good, I just said Vet is strong

[steep flower]

Tbh it is not hard to outdamage any average zealot

[past stratus]

I'm telling you, scrap dogshit Exec Stance and Infiltrate, give Veteran Disengage exactly how it is in VT2 then use the extra ability slot to make an actual melee focused ability that synergizes with WS.

[vague wigeon]

Or plasma. Plasma can stack dirty damage

[sonic kayak]

This is true , all of Zealot's damage are from crits

[steep flower]

Or flamer

[past stratus]

or just please give me Votann so I can abandon Veteran 😔

[sonic kayak]

Depends on how much you use EP for Psyker tbh, and maybe Ogryn

I know Skudie has a keystoneless Psyker too

[vague wigeon]

Funny enough how first extra class was theorised to be ratling

Because ratlings were mentioned if character's banter

[sudden cedar]

So extra small Bardin?

[vague wigeon]

But i want to have admech class. Like Mechanicus secutor, skitarii or even servitor

[unreal nova]

I thought it was chance to refund as well on shot?

[past stratus]

I remember reading somewhere that Ratling's general theme and equipment just doesn't fit in Darktide so they will never put them in. Idk that much about the tabletop so I have no idea.

[sudden cedar]

Ratlings are usually employed as Snipers/Marksmen

[vague wigeon]

Maybe? I don't remember

Last time i played VT2 was in 2018

[vague wigeon]

Yep

And cooks

[past stratus]

yeah it feels like Veteran is already supposed to be the Sniper/Marksman

even though

it really isn't

currently

[compact oracle]

theres a blessing for refund on headshot/refund on crit in VT

[sudden cedar]

And more. Quartermasters and .. something like Hallowette is doing.

[ember nest]

damn if only we had fucking OPTICS on the hellbore

[past stratus]

unless Helbore

[vague wigeon]

Do you know guys that was one of the scariest things in only war TTRPG?

[compact oracle]

a sniper would be difficult to really implement, although a longlas was in the leaks a while back so... they at least had plans

[sudden cedar]

Like, providing illicit goods.

[vague wigeon]

fixer

[sonic kayak]

This, the game just doesn't really support long-range engagements

[ember nest]

I think a sniper for vet would just be like a heavy stubber

or even revolver

[vague wigeon]

Yeah, but ratlings are like.... EXTRA good at it

[sudden cedar]

However, as mentioned in the Rules for Kill Team, Ratlings may even enter close combat

There isn't much to go with, its really just Kill Team

[compact oracle]

i suppose if zet gets to be melee guy and ogryn gets to be big melee guy, vet and ratling could be gun guy and even more gun guy

[vague wigeon]

According to only war they may shoot as reaction, instead of dodging

So dual-pistol ratlings are the pretty scary for regular humans

[sudden cedar]

No idea about the rules for table top, just reading the Lexicanum stuff.

[elder fiber]

can't wait for vet powercreep talent that gives random stimmies on elite/special kill and 30% dr for landing a headshot with melee or ranged for the 2026 vet rework

[sudden cedar]

The reputation of Ratling Snipers is backed up by their impressive skills.

[unreal nova]

I assume is on crit then since I had inf ammo just shooting randomly.

[past stratus]

yeh idk, I don't feel Darktide is a game for snipers. We are hive diving, a claustrophobic hive with tiny hallways and tunnels

[sudden cedar]

One Ratling Sniper is credited with the first known and confirmed kill of a T'au Ethereal

[unreal nova]

Which is fun in RPs. Being that totally sus char who only means well.

[sudden cedar]

They can also do it in reverse.

If you run foul of your company ratling cook, you may find your supplies go "missing"

[unreal nova]

Or your food quality dipping.

[remote knoll]

Best map for long bomb?

[sudden cedar]

Maybe. But more your ammunition amongst other things

[vague wigeon]

I did in on the map with bridge

Where you wait for elevator

And horde runs through the bridge

The torrent, i believe

[sudden cedar]

One of the worst maps yes.

Silo Cluster

[vague wigeon]

How tf is it bad?

[sudden cedar]

The start is horrible.

[vague wigeon]

Chokepoint with guaranteed horde

shrugs

[past stratus]

I think they meant it generally

[sudden cedar]

Yep.

For the penance it might be great.

But everything else about the map is just bad.

[past stratus]

idk the only maps I really dislike are the ones that last forever

[unreal nova]

Heh.

[sudden cedar]

Because Ratling Cooks are.. well. cooks. And with their love for food, exspecially their own, i find it hard to believe they would sully their own food.

Out of curiosity, what is Bardins height?

[past stratus]

now I'm really annoyed that Exec Stance and Infiltrate are just butchered Disengage when just having Disengage in Darktide would've been fine 😠 fuck you too FS

[remote knoll]

I dont even care about beating the map lol

Just want the penance

[sudden cedar]

Ratlings in the Field.

[vague wigeon]

Feeding your teammates to buff or heal them, lol

[sudden cedar]

Ogryns would love Ratlings

[nimble wadi]

Is it normal to bring a whole pie and chicken to a battle

[vague wigeon]

Ogryns would move everyone smallers that them

[winged pond]

What if ratlings could sit on ogryn's shoulders

[vague wigeon]

In only war there is a talent "Lil' 'Un" that can be taken by humans

[winged pond]

Mobile sniper nests

[vague wigeon]

Ogryns be like

[winged pond]

"I never wanted this. I never wanted to unleash my legions."

[ember nest]

Zealot is vermintide zealot

Vet is vermintide vet ranger

Shimple rlly

[dry cloak]

ratling aint happening

[faint beacon]

0 days without ratling class being brought up

[vague wigeon]

I remember Vets and Zealots haring each other calling each other 'New Kerillian"

Tho i don't know that is the problem with Kerillian besides the fact that she's the most fun and adaptable hero in the game

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-anakin-skywalker-what-have-i-done-confused-sad-gif-3575836

[dry cloak]

damn

mk5?

[hollow ibex]

yeah somewhat meme build

i'll post the build onto GL in a bit

should actually be fairly viable but need to test in an actual match

[wispy sorrel]

Why Hadron hates everyone 😄

[unreal nova]

You get the whole range with her imo.

Ranged with waystalker, shade melee dps, handmaiden tanky and mage with SoT.

[arctic rampart]

so if you're using that thing for carapce & unyielding & range prio (maniac etc) what weapon do you want to pair it with? seems like you'll want something comfortable for horde.. ps?

but I'm guessing you went up the left tree. since iron will is a thing, and 10% rending (?) -- do you have points for melee vet stuffs on the bottom right?

[unreal nova]

Those are on middle.

[rough cobalt]

What is best modifier on auric maelstorm to finish the penance where noone can be downed?

[arctic rampart]

Yes, that's the point. Vet melee stuff is on the right and his meme build going left for meme plague ogryn smacking, I think?

[arctic rampart]

3 ogryns and u

more seriously, I guess whatever you think is easiest. hunting grounds is easy?

[unreal nova]

??? Do ppl just suck on handmaiden?

[hollow ibex]

fixed build, was taking born leader earlier 🤮

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9f61c314-2870-469e-b9e7-8d4ce6d057fc/machinegun-helbore-10k-boss-dps

[arctic rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/15lwdw9/an_explanation_of_all_potential_maelstrom_mission/

[unreal nova]

And to be fair, I tend to avoid char auto callouts. Is not the players tbh.

You mean funni inf ammo builds.

Just bully to win.

[arctic rampart]

its kind of funny how like 1 year ago <edit> a lot of people thought vet was the most broken, and now everyone thinks they're the weakest. but didn't really get nerfed.

[hollow ibex]

the powercreep was real

[unreal nova]

They did get some nerfs, but no real buffs to compensate for the heck oggy got.

Remember, an oggy with just a heavy stubber and 0 talents does what a minmaxxed vet does.

[arctic rampart]

really I like a lot of weapons for vets. but I only play mealstroms havoc seems like it'd be unfun

[vague wigeon]

SoT?

Well, yeah you can play ranged Kerillian if you are good and don't miss headshots.

OR have ammo regen

Welp, idk, i liked her lines.

[unreal nova]

IDK about SoT, had no DLC for chars. Only knew how she broke the game so hard I lost interest.

Like, why play when if an SoT joins, you can AFK.

[vague wigeon]

I stopped playing before any DLC's

Because i've done everything possible, completed all challenges(They were just added at that time) and left

Still remember tryin ti kill troll in the mines within 15 seconds

With hunter Kruber and Shade Kerillian

Or killing final bosses on skittergate withing 20 seconds

[unreal nova]

The worst one was the jump to the beat one.

Ppl expected me to do it on 800 ping.

[vague wigeon]

Withing 20 seconds from the death of the first one

See no problem

Humans are the best race anyway

[unreal nova]

That sounds a little sus.

[vague wigeon]

Sus?

[unreal nova]

Sounds a little racist there.

[vague wigeon]

So what?

[vague wigeon]

[umbral scaffold]

Hey All! Currently doing a braced auto gun with combat axe vet. It’s been good fun but I’m leaning towards going stealth.

Anyone have any good builds that they know of for this? I know braced doesn’t deal well with crushers, but I took kraks, extra grenade and auto-replenish to deal with anything like crushers and bulwarks.

[sudden cedar]

@umbral scaffold What version of the Combat Axe do you use? Also, showing the build somehow would help as well.

[fading yarrow]

Please remind me, frens: which D Claw is the best?

[tame lodge]

None

4 or 7

[unreal nova]

Sighs. Needs more buffs.

[tame lodge]

It needs 1 buff

[hollow ibex]

if you're going to run brauto

run with ES

and take the usual melee talents if you're using rashad

i run brauto keystoneless to afford the melee talents

you could prob do the same thing

[past stratus]

I love when half of my guns bounce off harmlessly of any type of armor :D

[unreal nova]

Gamble with crits?

[past stratus]

I do not like gamba and from what you told me about twinned, neither should you. >:(

gambling is bad kids, do not

[unreal nova]

Thus, never (Braced)autogun.

[past stratus]

[unreal nova]

Or anything. Just throw 'nades and run around team oggy to deal with armoured.

They'll totally drop a pick and mine the skulls of those things for you. Maybe.

[tropic notch]

Coolest thing you’ve ever said

[past stratus]

oh I have a question here, how good is the vet's boom stick? the eletric club whatever its name is

[tropic notch]

We love humans and abhumans

[tropic notch]

It’s alright

[past stratus]

I don't want to keep leveling the taxe, I'm going to skip it again

[hollow ibex]

Meh

[hollow ibex]

Just power level it

[tropic notch]

Shock maul on vet is mobility dump, flak + maniac, hammerblow + skullcrusher

[past stratus]

ty ty

[past stratus]

I hate I hate it I hate it 😵‍💫

[tropic notch]

How are you building it?

[past stratus]

I have the generic build from hammer of the emperor, I don't remember it

probably brutal momentum + something

like every other axe

I just don't like the move set and the animations

[tropic notch]

Try the mk7 with moblity dump, flak + unarmored, headtaker + brutal momentum

Or the mk 4 with decematior

It uses a certain build but it’s good

[past stratus]

I can see how it is a viable weapon, I just don't like how it plays

[hollow ibex]

Theres a mod for it as well that makes it a lot easier

[hollow ibex]

Oh yeah

Them no mods will fix that lol

[sudden cedar]

Try out the Achlys Combat Axe. You''re going to love it.

[tropic notch]

I’d just use Rashad

[sudden cedar]

[tropic notch]

Achlys is poopy!!!!!!!

[sudden cedar]

In case it wasn't obvious enough, the Achlys is bad.

I am still going to use it.

[tropic notch]

I remember I listened to a shitty YouTuber and got told it was the best axe in the game

https://tenor.com/view/tole-tole-cat-cat-vro-cat-gif-17161343143756375842

[past stratus]

The Rashad is really good, I had a good time with it even if I'm not a big fan of axes in general

[round crystal]

does anyopne recocgnise this portrait frame? Never seen it before

[past stratus]

that's the hammer of Sigmar isn't it?

[round crystal]

vermintide vet frame?

[fading yarrow]

Warhammer+ subscriber frame

[grand perch]

its from subscribing to warhammer+ or whatever their streaming service is called

[round crystal]

ah thank you

[past stratus]

HOLY SIGMAR BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/bM5bG.gif

[safe kiln]

i hate consignment yard end section in havoc

gunners galore feasting

[warm schooner]

sounds like a job for smoke grenades

[quiet valley]

ppl beeline to the medstation on Consignment yard, and dont see that there are 20+ gunners and no cover by that last medstation

[sudden cedar]

Could it also be that they just aggro them too?

That is something i see on a regular basis. Aggro ranged enemies and be surprised that they shoot back.

[formal hamlet]

Combat shotgun dump stat mobility or stability?

[past stratus]

I feel like Smoke Grenades should be top tier equipment since they deal with the biggest menace in Havoc. Yet it sits in the weird setup corner due to skill issue 😔

[safe kiln]

my random teammates got caught in the open and it ended up being me trying to clutch lol

[quiet valley]

mobility

[safe kiln]

as a branx oggy

[sudden cedar]

Happens

[unreal nova]

Also bad if you play 300 ping. Literally does nothing for you. XD

Gawddamnit, RP muscle memory. Stop adding brackets.

[past stratus]

oh why does the lag influences? Or just because you don't have time to react?

oh you text RP too?

[unreal nova]

More like, I still get targeted and shot at anyway.

[tropic notch]

She’s getting excited

[unreal nova]

I used to do forum ones. Got into actual advanced stuff.

But text, yeah. Laziness is king nowadays though.

[past stratus]

advanced RP? Professional, high octane, Challenger RP!?

[unreal nova]

No, unless you are paying, I do not write personal smut.

[unreal nova]

Think more, mini novels than just one two paragraphs.

Much purple prose, very detailed.

[past stratus]

oh I see I see, I do some mmorpg RP and weekly Pathfinder games

not professional

😔

noob RP

[sudden cedar]

Pathfinder

[umbral scaffold]

Using Rashad, and I found this build as my baseline

https://youtu.be/IjUXtxua2lg?si=yVzbN9qRjnKJYDJr

[unreal nova]

I stopped those. Was like writing fanfics but not and is harder to write based on speculations.

[sudden cedar]

Good on you for using the Rashad.

Avoid Achlys.

[umbral scaffold]

Rashad is the way for sure

[unreal nova]

I mean, I used to D&D so I get it. I just break combat somehow. My worst char shreds hordes but sucks at bosses.

Unless you wanna watch her roll 38 disadvantages every turn.

[sudden cedar]

[unreal nova]

Yes, my DM hated my turns. It got so bad, I rolled her turns in another game so nobody needed to see the spam.

Full macross missile spam, but lasers.

[sudden cedar]

What class could cause such a ruckus?

[unreal nova]

Third party.

But baseline fighter with third party perks.

And subclass.

Yes, she can double it.

[umbral scaffold]

Also- chain axe worth it on vet or best to stick with Rashad?

[hollow ibex]

uh

playing mael

4 fucking full health bosses spawne immediately

[umbral scaffold]

Not yet. Prob eventually

[hollow ibex]

did they break monstrosity mael

[sudden cedar]

@hollow ibex Count me in.

Sounds like a lot of fun

[safe kiln]

it just happens

[hollow ibex]

i've never seen 4

[unreal nova]

@steep flower Explain CAxe to this guy on vet.

[hollow ibex]

full health bosses

[safe kiln]

oh full health

[hollow ibex]

and we were literally five minutes into the fucking game

[sudden cedar]

I have seen three plus one weakened

[hollow ibex]

they def broke something

[sudden cedar]

They should keep it.

[safe kiln]

that sounds fun

[sudden cedar]

It is enjoyable for a change.

[safe kiln]

random team could get rolled though if unprepared for it

[faint beacon]

It’s been broken for ages

You just got unlucky

[sudden cedar]

I would call it lucky.

[hollow ibex]

yeah i mean i just want one NORMAL fucking game

[sudden cedar]

Finally a challenge.

[hollow ibex]

to test a new build

[faint beacon]

It’s just by popular demand they keep the full health bosses

[hollow ibex]

can't have fucking shit in

[faint beacon]

Lmao

[sudden cedar]

Unnormal game is the way to go.

[ember nest]

[faint beacon]

Cause people genuinely don’t want the full HP ones to be removed

[sudden cedar]

If it can succeed in that scenario, it would do so every where else

[past stratus]

I've done a lot of DnD but 5e is pretty boring on the long run

[unreal nova]

Brackets is for OoC messages.

[unreal nova]

I know, too simplified.

[past stratus]

I am in fact kind of fed up with D20 fantasy systems, I wish I could convince my group to play the 40k games but they are still too attached to their swords and magic

[umbral scaffold]

40k RPGs are awesome

[unreal nova]

Point them to fantasy.

Ezy.

[past stratus]

yeah maybe that is worth a try

[unreal nova]

[past stratus]

we really have one enthusiast for each axe in this channel

even though axes are lame 😔

[sudden cedar]

[unreal nova]

Yes, papa like Caxe.

[strange crow]

@unreal nova u still down to help with malleus monstronum? No worries if you’re busy ofc

[unreal nova]

So...

[strange crow]

And sorry for the ping

[unreal nova]

Yeah, I can get on.

[past stratus]

there was a fella that spent the whole week last week shouting propaganda about the Chain Axe

yesterday we also had someone make a build with all the gambling talents and say that the inconsistency of it was ok because the Chain Axe was reliable

Axe brainrot is real

[unreal nova]

It is. Ask Papa on it.

He plays it into H40.

[past stratus]

Papa is pretty based even if I don't agree with some of his favorite talents

[sudden cedar]

I use the Achlys Combat Axe because it is a trashy weapon and it forces me to become better in general game mechanics and find other solutions to common situations. That way i will become better and can also value the better weapons more.

I am fully aware that the weapon is trash.

[past stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-lee-weights-naruto-chunin-exams-flex-gif-26433140

bro is rock lee

[unreal nova]

We know you maso, dunno if just Zealot fanaticism or Slaaneshi levels.

Reeeeeeeeeeee nearly booted into my arby.

[unreal nova]

Oh, send an invite soon tm.

[strange crow]

Yep I gotchu my computer booting up

[unreal nova]

No, Sister Prine, I do not sleep. I pass out unconscious.

[sudden cedar]

@unreal nova Currently, i am using it on the Arbitrator.

[round crystal]

That sounds interesting, what gambling talents did it have?

[sudden cedar]

Without Dog.

[past stratus]

oh you were the guy, I remember because Vivi is my favorite

[round crystal]

Yes

it literally just had competitive urge and demo team as rng

[umbral scaffold]

@hollow ibex also, what is ES?

[sudden cedar]

@unreal nova Fanaticism.

[hollow ibex]

exc stance

[warm schooner]

monstrosity mael definitely seems to be spawning more, though running a boss killing havoc build makes short work of it due to boss spawns being so flimsy in auric

[faint beacon]

Craziest part is, it’s actually good on Arbitrator lmao

[sudden cedar]

Decent.

[faint beacon]

Same with Vigils

[sudden cedar]

Vigils are good in general.

[past stratus]

should've gone Twinned blast and commited to it

[faint beacon]

People who say they’re bad literally just don’t build into them correctly with Arby

Prosecution Blow and the Push = Cleave talent

My ass outdamaging Ogryns with an Achlys Caxe

[round crystal]

I have run it with twinned blast sometimes.

[sudden cedar]

Twinned Blast may on paper be good, but i personally wouldn't rely on it.

[past stratus]

it's a meme talent

[round crystal]

It's not great, but if you're running kraks on an auric level buiild it won't hurt

like its already a meme

[past stratus]

don't krak already one shot ogryn enemies at auric by default?

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

[round crystal]

we aren't talking about ogryns

[past stratus]

so the second blast in theory is lost, no?

[safe kiln]

for that sweet monstrosity damage

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

[past stratus]

so it would only ever do anything if you tossed it in a boss

and it happened

[sudden cedar]

Correct.

[grand perch]

not worth it

[past stratus]

good meme fatshark

[sudden cedar]

Aye.

Hold on a moment, how does the talent actually work?

Do you get a second explosion on the same target or is it a second grenade?

[round crystal]

second grenade

trajectory is slightly random as well

[past stratus]

you throw one grenade you get two

[warm schooner]

twinned kraks

[sudden cedar]

🤔

[round crystal]

it might not even hit

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/bOBje.gif

[round crystal]

realistically, the three arbitrators in the lobby will kill whatever you attach the krak to before it goes off anyways

[past stratus]

it probably has any real use with frags on really fat hordes

[sudden cedar]

Realistically, this will happen, Arbitrators or not

[round crystal]

its decent on nade spam vet to increase explosion radius, particularly if abusing puncture on bolt pistol / lethal prox

w/ shredder

[sudden cedar]

Kraks are just not quite fast enough.

(among other things)

[round crystal]

helbore shouldn't take so long to equip

pretty sure even boltgun is faster

[grand perch]

its literally about 0.7 seconds with one motion

[past stratus]

currently I think Helbore is probably faster than the Spearhead Bolter

[grand perch]

thats plenty fast enough

[past stratus]

I love One Motion

[round crystal]

Right side of the tree makes this class feel so much better to play

[safe kiln]

weapon spec my fav keystone

[round crystal]

I hate not having trench fighter or weapon specialist*

[past stratus]

Yes, as much as I'd love center path to be good. Right side is just better all the time. One Motion working with grenades and the 5% move speed are unbeatable

[grand perch]

not really, middle path is very valid

but right is my favorite as well

[round crystal]

If you kept focus target and iron will, and tac awareness, you could delete the entire rest of middle just fine

bottom mid at least

[past stratus]

I don't think center path is ever worth losing those two things. I am a big team player, healer main in mmos. But I don't think those talents do enough.

[round crystal]

do you ever use covering fire?

[grand perch]

nah its shit

also youre forgetting bring it down and demo team in the bottom middle. those cant go

[round crystal]

can't for havoc certainly

[narrow widget]

iron will demo team my beloved

[past stratus]

the problem with random damage buffs to allies in this game is that 90% of the time they are cosmetic. Here is an illustration:

• If I have a Fanatic friend that can ONE (1) shot Bonk a Gunner with his big Bonk stick, giving him 20% more damage will not change anything.

• If the same Fanatic can 2 shot Bonk a Rager with the same Bonk stick, me giving him 20% damage will not make it so he can ONE (1) shot bonk the Rager. So that buff doesn't change the flow of the game at all, it is essentially cosmetic, unless it is a boss. Or a situation where the 20% helps body shot someone which is situational at best.

[round crystal]

right, was just wondering about the toughness replenishment

[red robin]

I kinda like it on shotgun builds, but it’s counterproductive in terms of your teammates can just get melee toughness instead and ur wasting ammo on units that can be melee’d

[round crystal]

if its instant, could you fire a shotgun into a horde and instantly bring them back to full?

[narrow widget]

3 seconds is pitiful btw

[round crystal]

right, you're trolling a zealot or ogryn either way

[narrow widget]

actually paltry amount of time ngl

[round crystal]

I'm not advocating for it, I was just curious

I have never run / tested it

[past stratus]

I must say it again in the slim case that someone at FS reads it. I would love a tactical support branch for veteran with actually useful talents for it. But sadly we just don't have that yet

[unreal nova]

I just mini oggy. Heh.

[unreal nova]

Boop.

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/bOBje.gif

[unreal nova]

Ppl sleep on the 75% cleave on push. Is funni.

[narrow widget]

https://tenor.com/view/saltzpyre-eyebrow-raise-vermintide-gif-24052002

[sudden cedar]

Holy Sigmar, bless this ravaged body.

[unreal nova]

Second grenade, but they are angled so harder to aim.

[narrow widget]

HOLY SIGMAR RAVAGE THIS BLESSED BODY

[sudden cedar]

Sigmar, bless this shot!

[unreal nova]

Boop.

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/bOBje.gif

[unreal nova]

.-.

[sudden cedar]

For the Heretic, there is only death. For the Unclean, there is only death. For the Betrayer, there is only death. So shall it be.

[past stratus]

for toughness regen for your team I like the Focus Target node, Focus Target is a great support ability

[arctic rampart]

For toughness regen for your team, push voice-of-command

[unreal nova]

Pifft. And there who is there to bring ammo and 'nades? HRM?

[narrow widget]

or just trust that they regen toughness for themselves ngl

[sudden cedar]

Veteran is more than just Survivalist and Voice of Command

[odd sparrow]

depends who you ask lol

[sudden cedar]

That is true.

[narrow widget]

rn he kinda is

[civic apex]

It’s shredder frag plasma too

[sudden cedar]

That is just the most prominent.

Plasma is a crutch as much as it is an amazing weapon.

[narrow widget]

everything else Arby's does better

[past stratus]

I'm a team player what can I say

[civic apex]

Why is it a crutch

[warm schooner]

such good value on left click spam it blinds you to other options

[civic apex]

So does bully club

[warm schooner]

plasma is good but its def not the end all be all on high havoc

[past stratus]

Plasma is very very strong, I do think that if you just use Plasma, you're going to have a bad time when you swap to other weapons

[civic apex]

I haven’t really had a big problem with other weapons

[past stratus]

you're a gamer, that's a good thing

[warm schooner]

plasma is just a "safe" pick

[red robin]

Strong weapon will make you miss out on valuable tech that weapons with downsides can help with learning

[civic apex]

I kinda got bored of it

But I hate the auto guns

Revolver is like the only basic gun I enjoy

Or double barrel

[narrow widget]

yea cuz theyre kinda doodoo compared to other options

[civic apex]

Bolter is fun but also strong

[narrow widget]

[civic apex]

Some are okay

But like the single shot ones are ewwww

[red robin]

Just wishing there was build variety that didn’t feel like ass to invest into

[past stratus]

I leveled it but I still prefer the Helbore even though the Plasma is better than the Helbore in most situations.

[red robin]

Marksmen focus fun in theory but janky in practice

[past stratus]

Plasma only loses to the Helbore when dealing with Crushers probably

[sudden cedar]

Exactly this.

[civic apex]

Marksman is so awful

[warm schooner]

boss damage

plasma is awful for boss damage

[civic apex]

Like I don’t even have a problem w/ stealth vet, but marksman is ewwww

[red robin]

I love learning movement tech just for it to be discouraged in gameplay mechanics like stacks falling off

[narrow widget]

💔

[red robin]

Or no value in melee

[sudden cedar]

I guess that is just what Veterans have to suffer through until the rework comes.

[red robin]

Like tunnel vision is a fun node for toughness support builds

[narrow widget]

shits so bad I started dreaming of vet rework 💔 💔 💔

[red robin]

With born leader

[past stratus]

Marksmen is for some nerd to come here and go ☝️ 🤓 "HUM ackchually if you hit every single headshot in every single shot, MMF outperforms the other keystones"

[civic apex]

I just hope it doesn’t make the game too easy

[faint beacon]

It’s good on certain weapons but that doesn’t make it better than the other options

Like Helbore and Vigils are the only weapons I see unironic MMF picks with being reasonable

[red robin]

Would be right if hit registration didn’t feel like ass on some weapons (las pistol bodyshotting on headshot hitbox with sound effects registering )

[serene bough]

With the direction theyre balancing the game were all likely to see major buffs (thus game will be easier)

[red robin]

Or three headshots in a row with one of them actually landing as a hit (1 bodyshot)

[civic apex]

It will deincentivize playing with 4 players and thus less team play :(** **

[past stratus]

I very much prefer FT on the Helbore simply because it is reliable damage. I can be in a pinch getting chased by a bunch of stinkers, I still tag someone and shoot

[red robin]

True

[serene bough]

Idk, if were talking auric its already like that

[red robin]

I’m praying that weakspot strength is coded as tech in arbites, I’m hoping critical strength and finesse strength is real and not just coded as dmg

[past stratus]

bro if you have some godlike flick tech and only hit headshots even in Havoc, then you should play a stronger class. Imagine the youtube video potential that you have

[red robin]

MMF says finesse strength in tooltip but it’s just finesse dmg

[civic apex]

I don’t play auric with other people

[narrow widget]

true like atp just play counterstrike

[civic apex]

I’m actually planning to install csgo 2 today

[steep flower]

Chainaxe is very good at single targets and alright at keeping the horde away due to Mk IV push attack - heavy combo; dmg vs horde is weak but if you utilize the combo mentioned above you should not die to chaf. Elites are a joke for chainaxe cause rev stuns them; the only enemy that is not stunned is bosses, captains & mutans. Caxe rashad is simple & effective, chainaxe requires more work & it might be too much for some ppl to handle imo

[red robin]

Arbites market share skyrocketing rn

[narrow widget]

invest invest invest

[red robin]

Invest in arbites YouTube content coin rn

[steep flower]

but the fact that you can 2 shot a crusher with light attack revs in H40 should speak for itself; not to mention very good boss/captain/twins DPS if you build your vet & chainaxe correctly

[past stratus]

Shield Pistol short of headshotting baddies while sliding around gas clouds

[fading yarrow]

Man
Imagine Marksman's Focus with Castigator's automatic ammo refill

Paired with Vraks Mk V or Boltgun

[narrow widget]

imagine executioners stance reloads your gun

wait

[red robin]

I would love if vet rework had the talent skirmisher come with omni-movement

And run n gun come with reload sprint baked in

[past stratus]

I already made up my mind, scrap exec stance and infiltrate and just give me Disengage instead

then make up some new ability

[unreal nova]

TOO OP.

[past stratus]

for the last one

[tropic notch]

I should bring chain axe into havoc

[fading yarrow]

Wait a second. Why did I call Exec Stance "Marksman's Focus"

[tropic notch]

I love chainaxe on vet

It’s the only class I love it on

[faint beacon]

Vigil headshot sound effect followed by the blood splatter only for the bullet to vanish into the void and the enemy take 0 damage

[faint beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/772652982239625246/1063610676783886336/uncle-grandpa-save-uncle-grandpa.gif?ex=6874f362&is=6873a1e2&hm=cbce2c8944cb1578ca842243913c9fbc675ccfbf206cad4edc0dc2a3bada4b75&

[red robin]

Sarcasm ironic bit or real build to run science?

[tropic notch]

Yes gale I’ll be your catboy

[narrow widget]

tzeentch protected them you just have to get better at aiming through the warp

[tropic notch]

I’m being serious i love chain axe on him lol

[red robin]

Ammo gone and enemy hits you due to phantom bullet

[tropic notch]

I don’t like it on zealot

[red robin]

What variant? Perks n blessing?

I wanna try it out

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/kindness-hopecore-peace-and-love-dog-cute-gif-13253096881461448292

[unreal nova]

Welcome to 300 ping and questionable packet loss.

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/hate-gif-2050801210200914046