veteran-class

[long dove]

Oh that's a good point

[sonic wedge]

So you pretty much delete any elites/specials that is not carapaced armored

Or lightly armored

[ember nest]

nae RUN in and STAB the heretics

[keen pine]

u got it. for the emperor!

[sonic wedge]

Bolt pistol is also good but if you dont have the mastery level 20 skin then your aim is going to be funky since the iron sights on that thing for the normal skin is horendous

[sonic wedge]

Yes zip on the front lines and stab em with no mercy

Heretics must die

[ember nest]

kill stick

not fully upgraded cause what do I need this for when everything's 80 already

[long dove]

I wondered if that gun had odd aiming

[sonic wedge]

Yeah the iron sights is not good on the bolt pistol if you dont have any skin on it

the mastery level 20 skin on it makes it easier for you

Noicee

[safe kiln]

u absolutely want the extra dodge

[lost silo]

what's the best weapon with stealth

[hollow ibex]

The best weapon without stealth, psword

[lost silo]

okay

i mean

infil

[unreal nova]

With the mastery skin, aim below the iron sights.

If you aim at the iron sight, you might be bodyshotting.

[low oar]

Ironically, also psword

[south canyon]

Who up playing with they penances

[viral chasm]

does the bleed blessing and explosion radius blessing on bot pistol still affect veteran grenade?

[long dove]

Gonna try with Zarona maybe? Or is the bistol that much better?

[unreal nova]

Bistol is if you go into frag booms.

Revolver better for that one penance.

More 1 hit breakpoints easier.

[midnight totem]

it slightly buffs krak booms too. Not by much, mind, but enough

[unreal nova]

I'm the one telling ppl that...

[midnight totem]

how the turn tables turn!

[unreal nova]

Because I used it for Armourbane penance.

[safe kiln]

armour bane was my least favorite penance

[long dove]

I have a nade build with it so I can use Zarona now I guess

[unreal nova]

Just note your frags be smaller but usually isn't an issue.

[long dove]

I normally don't the improved nades anyway

[safe kiln]

improved nades are nice with krak for extra monstrosity damage and smoke for duration, not really worth for frags

[midnight totem]

the range is great for frags

extra monstrosity damage isn't that much considering, you can really do just as much damage with a crit dueling sword heavy as a krak grenade

[safe kiln]

yeah. kraks are very mid

[midnight totem]

which is why I advocate buffing them, but! thats another conversation

you do need tinker or ogryn damage for them to kill havoc ogryns with one krak though

[unreal nova]

Grenade tinkerer is funni with lethal.

[safe kiln]

even more range

[midnight totem]

I tossed one krak yesterday and it killed 10 elites all bunched up

[unreal nova]

Bleeding entire arena is funni.

[barren girder]

aside from the obvious differences in handling and damage, are there any different breakpoints (depending on talents, blessings, etc) to keep in mind in choosing between helbore mk3a and mk4?

[signal garden]

it should be obvious at this point but veteran is better at knifing than zealot

[sharp epoch]

what

[signal garden]

weakpoint damage, passive crit, easy rending

you can 1shot chaff by doing stuff, and open cans after a few more hits

[sharp epoch]

zealot just has way better stats in general not to mention the whole crit focused talent build + fotf

[signal garden]

also better attack speed

yeah but you need alot of crits

vet just.... kills

no ramp up

imo zealot has always been the best at tac ax

since it gets big rewards for critting all day

[sharp epoch]

zealots pretty much better at every melee weapon

[signal garden]

not at shovel

or powersword

or knife

[sharp epoch]

if they had a shovel and ps trust me theyd do better

[signal garden]

zealot has like no rending, would be awful at shovel

because shovel has no rending

[tropic notch]

false

[sharp epoch]

fotf gives rending to every weapon

[tropic notch]

uncanny and fury

[sharp epoch]

also the basically 100% crit chance on knife zealot makes it ignore armor pretty much

[tropic notch]

vet is also good at it reso stacks from multiple soruces

[signal garden]

wowzers 1 20% rending attack every couple of seconds

[tropic notch]

?

[signal garden]

is the same as always having 10% rending all the time

[sharp epoch]

vets 10% rending at all times pretty much sucks

id rather take bring it down

[signal garden]

whynotboth

[tropic notch]

tax

[sharp epoch]

because point tax

[signal garden]

well zealot has point tax too

i would give up anything for more lower down the tree talents anyways

[sharp epoch]

literally to be on par with zealot base stat wise vet needs a .25 stam regen node

its really not worth making a knife vet pretty much cause zealot does it better, like might as well be basically unkillable

well thats arbites now tooo

and ogryn

[signal garden]

well yeah so if youre going to go for higher TTKs gotta go veteran

[sharp epoch]

melee ttk still goes to zealot

fotf synergizes perfectly with melee while vet just has defensive ability

[tropic notch]

vet ttk is ps and knife

[unreal nova]

Shovel no uncanny???

[orchid hemlock]

The only reason I would take knife vet is if I had a DB as the range 💀

[signal garden]

what defensive ability

the one that knocks everything on its ass?

[tropic notch]

make voc give 30% damage

[sharp epoch]

and gives full toughness ye

[unreal nova]

Also, skullcrusher/decimator will smash things in anyway.

[signal garden]

so the ability that knocks everything on its butt and gives you full health to play recklessly is the defensive ability

[unreal nova]

Yes.

It makes melee bs funni tbh.

Still crazy risky compared to like 3 other classes but...

[signal garden]

i think any ability that enables one to play stupid is hard to describe as defensive, voc just happens to be versatile

this isnt like muh nuncio aquila, stand in a tiny circle and turn a choke point into a killzone

[unreal nova]

I mean, you can say the same with infil.

As long you aren't just using to aggrodump.

[gilded rock]

Wonder if Target Down could keep up with the slow variant of recon with Deadshot

[tall torrent]

This is very untrue

Duellist alone is more than veteran’s kit

[unreal nova]

You mean the... free -0.25 stam regen delay.

[tall torrent]

Duellist alone is almost 2x as good as veteran’s finesse related bonuses

[unreal nova]

I know, but not being taxed for less stam delay...

[tame lodge]

Casual Duelist W

https://tenor.com/view/one-peak-one-piece-one-piece-cry-its-so-peak-gif-13413926760013023520

[umbral scaffold]

fit

[thin stone]

drip looking fire dawg

[manic vigil]

Can someone clear something up

So, i've been trying to do a sorta "standard infantryman" type of build. Auto gun, shredders voice of command

I noticed with autogun, that the full auto ones easily do high headshot damge, but benefit from also doing full auto. what's the trade off for grabbing one of the slow firing ones?

Is it that the vigilant ones have better armor pen?

Or are vigilant autoguns undertuned compared to the full auto ones

I've just done a bunch of matches with the different marks and tbh, I can't see why I would bring a vigilant over infantry

Though, I think the two round burst one, Agripinaa maybe, is pretty nice.

[hollow ibex]

IAG is considered stronger

but more ammo inefficient

vigilants can still do very well, but you absolutely need to land headshots

and they are more ammo efficient

just extremely weakspot hit dependant

[manic vigil]

It was going really well taking out all the ranged guys kinda scattered up high, but then once the elites start coming and you get swarmed, it's a bit rough. they feel so satisfying to take out those ranged guys though.

[warm walrus]

plasma doesn't need a lot of perks to work yeah?

[hollow ibex]

plasma's a bitch to build

if you care about breakpoints

[frank basin]

Skill demand moment

[warm walrus]

damn

[warm walrus]

buh
i rolled a 60 charge rate right after seeing that

dammit game

the one time i dont need a 60 stat

[unreal nova]

60 thermal is better imo.

[odd sparrow]

Vigilants are ok. A lot people dont run them because the burst fire ones turn them off which has definitely worsened their reputation.

The damage is pretty fine but it really requires all the headshots. Where the full autos also have good finesse modifiers allowing you to shred anything with deadshot

[long dove]

Do I need those particular stats on TR and CR?

[manic vigil]

I will say in defense of them, they feel amazing to hit elites in the head with. You feel like a badass soldier type popping the gunners and other dudes

Curious. What do chainswords do or don't do that makes them underwhelming to other weapons?

I like the way they feel/sound when you hit one of the flak/carapace guys, but they don't seem as good for killing waves

[tall torrent]

If u care about perfect rolls, yes

[manic vigil]

I can't say for sure yet, but it seemed like if you activate special on the large chainsword and just block, it does dmg to anyone attacking?

[tall torrent]

No tools for mixed horde
Effectively no reliable single target

[manic vigil]

Sorry, that was zealot with greater chainsword. I guess it kinda applies to the assault one

[manic vigil]

Has it always been that way?

Or were they strong/good at some point.

I think they are fun, but i haven't really built around or used it properly I bet, so maybe it's decent combined with me dropping the ball somewhere making it just not feel or be as good as it can

[long dove]

Does 1% out of that 2% range matter?

[tall torrent]

For thermal resist, yes

If u get like 70-70 then it’s fine

If u get like 67 thermal resist then no

[long dove]

Ugh, I have 67% therm

[tall torrent]

67% thermal should be just just a little off from firing 8 shots with hipfire

[odd sparrow]

You just spam left click into hordes. I think it caps out at killing 3 guys per click or something like that

[long dove]

This is my current Plasma

Also spent like 400k trying to get a perfect one

[tall torrent]

1-2% off (but bad) 💀

[long dove]

Yeah I'm trying to get the correct one

But 70-70 is fine?

[unreal nova]

Is not minmaxxed, but it'll work.

The diff is too little for the avg person to really notice usually.

[long dove]

What does it let me do to have the correct spread?

[unreal nova]

A teeny tiny faster charge rate.

Like milisecs difference.

[long dove]

I mean like, those numbers let's me have a specific amount of shots while getting the most therm?

[unreal nova]

68-69 thermal.

Rest into charge rate.

69 is safe bet. 68 is depends on decimals.

[long dove]

But why that

[unreal nova]

8 Shots in a row before overheating.

80% is 8 shots.

68% is also 8 shots.

[olive halo]

power sword you dump cleave targets right?

[long dove]

That's uncharged?

[unreal nova]

So you just want the min.

[unreal nova]

Yes.

[long dove]

That's for groups of small stuff right?

[tall torrent]

1% off (but good) is ok

[tall torrent]

As fast charge rate as possible while being able to fire 8 shots in hipfire without venting

[tall torrent]

Yes

[unreal nova]

More, you see trapper behind horde, pew.

[long dove]

Ah okay

[olive halo]

Aight thanks

[last shale]

finally

[midnight totem]

congrats!

[viral chasm]

now do the biggest wall to get the helmet "on overwatch" penance

[winter grove]

@tall torrent what's the difference between tacaxes marks again?

[grand perch]

Movesets mostly

[tall torrent]

Mostly irrelevant

[open ravine]

Which weapon was your golden ticket

[open ravine]

I remember using the exploit where you down your self in the beginning of the mission and let the team finish the mission without you

[normal bay]

Or just go through the low int malice walking simulator while the dogs kill everything

[open ravine]

Since you never actually engaged in combat you never risked getting melee damage

I got all the original vet cosmetics back before any class reworks

[viral chasm]

I've done it on may can confirm the exploit still works

alright the hardest thing with that strategy is having friend to carry you

[narrow widget]

just use shout or shroudfield ong

easy as pie

[dawn garnet]

@tall torrent hi do you have some sources on when every batch of weapons was released? i wanna make a point about something?

[tall torrent]

No
And u prob won’t make a point on anything

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[dawn garnet]

fuck you 😭

tell me that newer melee weapons dont have a higher than average stamina base/ better blocking than older weapons

[tall torrent]

If ur trying to say the newer weapons are better designed than older ones

That’s because they are

[tall torrent]

No?

[dawn garnet]

yes

[tall torrent]

Buddy

If you compare against a thunder hammer

[dawn garnet]

newer weapons have had bigger and bigger stamina pools

[tall torrent]

EVERYTHING has better block efficiency

[dawn garnet]

compare taxe declaw crusher

shield to pickaxe

[tall torrent]

DC sword x75%
Tac axe x50%
Crusher x140%

Idk which shield ur talking about

[dawn garnet]

ogryn sheild

[dawn garnet]

but yes that is my stealth goal

[tall torrent]

Yea ur point is not holding up

Sorry

[dawn garnet]

😠

[tall torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-steam-steamhappy-gif-11912067498964962572

[dawn garnet]

you dont even believe that

you just hate me

[tall torrent]

No

And no

[dawn garnet]

ur hating me rn

[tall torrent]

It’s not my fault FS made crusher and thunder hammer have atrocious block costs

[dawn garnet]

i WILL get ironhelm buffed or get marty an extra stamina per wound node even if its the last thing i do

[tall torrent]

Extra stamina per wound is actually not a bad idea

Clad finally cooked smth?

[dawn garnet]

.5 stam per missing wound

fair no?

[tall torrent]

But it’d have to be like 0.5 per wound

Why missing wound

Just do +0.5 stam per wound

[dawn garnet]

fits with marty more and more of an incentive to play at low hp

[tall torrent]

So u always get +3.5

[dawn garnet]

but sure if you wanna get total wounds i wont say no

[tall torrent]

Missing wound interacting with stamina is kinda wonky

Code wise

[dawn garnet]

ok mr LUA god

[tall torrent]

Which mostly translates to “it could be buggier than arb’s dog”

[dawn garnet]

trust me if it can be written in human words there is a pasta chef at fatshark that can deliever something somewhat usable that works after 6 patches

[open ravine]

I got a randoms to do it luckily it was when players were all gunning for achievements

[last shale]

double barrel shotty. i just shot at the middle of every hoard or group of enemy i could

even with doing that there were still some instances where i missed because an arbities used their shotgun to 1 shot everything already

gents

we have a heretic on the mourning star to purge

[normal bay]

The voice line or the shopkeeper?

[last shale]

the voice is from her, so yes

[normal bay]

Shit, I didn't realise she spoke lol

[open ravine]

Hit level 30 and she gets an upgrade

[tame lodge]

She has a really thick accent

[last shale]

OH WHAT WAIT THAT IS TOTALLY HERE HOLY SHIT

i didnt realize

i litterally just commented cause she made that voice line. its totally the one from the cutscenes

[tame lodge]

Don't worry

[sudden cedar]

A lot of people probably never realized it because they don't pay attention to it.

[tame lodge]

You're not the only one

She's in like

90% of the old cutscenes

💀

https://tenor.com/view/puss-in-boots-1-humpty-dumpty-cat-dreamworks-i-was-always-there-gif-7565616765078251558

[rough cobalt]

Is there no longer maelstorm on heresy difficulty?

[normal bay]

There is but it doesn't always show up

Make sure you check the special events

[rough cobalt]

Allready done them to 10

Wanted to do Atoma's Elite Guard penance with auric maelstorm on damnation but nothing shows ;/

[normal bay]

Damnation maels are dead

[rough cobalt]

so I can't get that penance any longer?

or is there a way to go around it

[trim badger]

Can't you do an Auric Maelstrom?

[normal bay]

Complete auric maels maybe?

[rough cobalt]

yea, wasn't sure if that will do the job that's why I asked

since in some games I'm used to higher diff mission not going through as achivement for doing "lesser" diff

Now to hoping noone gets downed

[uneven cedar]

In regards to the plasma gun, does low overheat refer to reaching 100% and not blowing up?

[rough cobalt]

Also what are best blessings for Infantry Lasgun still got Headhunter on from long ago but is it still the best?

[tame lodge]

Headhunter + Ghost/Infernus

[rough cobalt]

Infernus on Infantry? wasn't it more for recon

[tame lodge]

It just means low heat

[tame lodge]

Yuh
It just works

(if the target survives a crit)

[orchid hemlock]

Ghost is insane

[uneven cedar]

Wait so if you take volatile and optimised cooling you just have uber charge rate/firing speed? xD

[rough cobalt]

Ranged enemies were never the problem for me tho

so I might as well take infernus

60% gunners resistance is doing it's job

[calm shard]

it's multiplicative

so it's actually 20-32-40

[orchid hemlock]

What difficulty are you playing on

[calm shard]

not 20 40 60

[rough cobalt]

Auric mostly

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah you don't know how terrifying shooters are in Havoc then

[rough cobalt]

on havoc I'm only 20

[orchid hemlock]

Even then, ghost just makes it so you can trade shots all the time

Infernus is mostly for puss harden modifiers

But they removed it 😈

[tame lodge]

I mean
Not the best combination

But sure

Add a blue stimm as well

[uneven cedar]

Brrrrr.

[trim badger]

Wasn't it 20 36 48?

[trim badger]

Thank god we're back to the original 4

Even if rituals are still buffed and purple bulwarks can be bs

At least no more goober modifiers

[calm shard]

may they stay gone FOREVER

[lost silo]

i hate math

[open spear]

What weapons do you guys find the most fun to use on veteran? Challenging myself to climb to 40 again on each class.

Not a fan of the plasma, like it’s great but I run on 80% vibes

[forest maple]

When did they change plasma gun's Gets hot!?

[calm shard]

Mk IV Helbore :)

[quiet valley]

Helbore, everything is solved via Helbore (MkIV)

[open spear]

Ok bet haha

Gonna use chain sword and hellbore it is

[tame lodge]

Never

What happened was

FS changed the way tooltips work

And made tooltips worse

💀

[quiet valley]

Generic Havoc Vet Ranged Weapon Tier List (After Patch)

[open spear]

Wow Zarona is that low?

[quiet valley]

Ammo Eco

[open spear]

Ah makes sense

[quiet valley]

Zarona in Auric and under is like S+ tier its an insane weapon, just chugs ammo

[marsh pivot]

What's the dumpstat for helbore?
Stability?

[quiet valley]

Yes

[marsh pivot]

Ty

[open spear]

Yeah makes sense

I’m used to playing psyker, who needs ammo?

And haven’t played the other classes in havoc yet

[quiet valley]

On Vet on pretty much every Las weapon you can go Zero Ammo pickups on H40

[sonic kayak]

Don't shoot hordes

[open spear]

Guess I’ll lvl some hellbore and recon

[gleaming viper]

do all inf lasguns use 3 ammo per shot? any marks that dont?

[tame lodge]

2, 3, 3 iirc

[unreal nova]

If you wanna do that, there's a class 2 rooms down. (Staffker.)

[gleaming viper]

thanks

[open spear]

Lol ik not to shoot hordes

[past stratus]

so I wanted to play a game with a new weapon but I couldn't get a game of damnation so I queued heresy to have some humans while I walk around killing shit

the game was Darkness, it had 4 daemonhost hidden in the main pathway, bosses and a ton of elites

what the fuck is this

I had less sweaty Maelstrom games

[tame lodge]

Welcome to Lights Out

There's a DH every corner

(at least 3 per map)

[calm shard]

I wonder if I should put unarmored/infested on my heavy sword for havoc

hmmmm

[tame lodge]

And flashlights can aggro them

[hot crag]

What's the magic with the laspistol? Is that strong?

[normal bay]

Crit

Crit is the magic sauce

[tame lodge]

And headshots

[quiet valley]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9da7999f-314a-47e5-a245-2df66897ac31/ammo-fountain-havoc-40

[hot crag]

Oh 👍🏻

[normal bay]

Deadshot suffering

[past stratus]

is light out going to be a modifier for games in all difficulties?

[tame lodge]

It's basically infinite* ammo dps

[calm shard]

I run Mk IV helbore with exe stance in high havocs

It's very funny to just obliterate every elite and specialist on the map

And you delete bosses

[quiet valley]

You can crush H40 with zero ammo pickups, LasX lets you put down every specialist/elite bar crushers while maintain the ability to deal with small shooters. Pair that with infinite ammo and a competitive boss TTK, and you have a very very good weapon.

[tame lodge]

It has a chance of showing up

But usually

[past stratus]

I thought they only applied modifiers in Auric +

[tame lodge]

Only high difficulties

[past stratus]

what the flip

[tame lodge]

Actually

This is like what

The first time I see lights out on heresy
Outside of the event

[quiet valley]

MkIV Helbore is also a great pick, after the buffs its even stronger now.

[calm shard]

It's also the funniest pick because it does such comically high damage per shot that it maintains a lot of its breakpoints even through Pus Hardened Skin lmao

[past stratus]

tossing new players into lights out and putting Daemonhosts along the way is just cruel

lmao

that is a horrible idea

[tame lodge]

Overkill enjoyers when they overkill

[calm shard]

I think it's funny as hell personally

[tame lodge]

[calm shard]

Should have lights out have a chance to show up in sedition/uprising

[quiet valley]

Here's a clip of MkIV Helbore hitting 17k dmg in one shot, and this is BEFORE THE BUFF lol

[tame lodge]

Just another casual Helbore W

As always

[past stratus]

it's good to see the Helbore gaining popularity

[open spear]

Eww

That was gross damage

[past stratus]

hopefully FS doesn't nerf it

[calm shard]

Until it becomes as popular as Plasma I don't think they will

[tame lodge]

FS just buffed it

[calm shard]

And I also don't think it will ever become that popular because of how clunky it is

[normal bay]

It's fine, only 3 people still play vet

[uneven cedar]

What are people's thoughts on the efficacy of the combat blade. It's moveset seems stupid fun I'm just not sure how it scales into auric/havoc.

[calm shard]

Which means we get to abuse it all day

[tame lodge]

Now the only thing that people might not like about helby

[calm shard]

Honestly one of the best melee weapons in the game

[tame lodge]

Is the charge and the sights

[calm shard]

Super stamina hungry though

[past stratus]

I think the combat blade's issue is armor

[tame lodge]

Better draw speed did wonders

[calm shard]

No not at all

[uneven cedar]

I love the charge and the ironsight personally.

[past stratus]

you mean the Claw?

[calm shard]

combat blade is one of the best anti armor weapons in the game

[past stratus]

wait am I tripping

[calm shard]

combat blade is th eknife

[tame lodge]

It's like

[past stratus]

ohhh

nvm then

[tame lodge]

Top tier weapon

[past stratus]

yeah the Knoife

[uneven cedar]

Very good to hear.

It's stupid fun.

[past stratus]

I think it is the first time I see someone calling it by the proper name

[calm shard]

Yeah if I'm not running exe stance vet

[past stratus]

I thought it was the claw

[calm shard]

I'm running knife+bolt pistol in havocs

[tame lodge]

Realistically the only problem of knife is the horde clear

But you're a vet

Bombs away

🗣️

[uneven cedar]

So you'd take frags on combat knife?

[calm shard]

however will veteran clear hordes

[tame lodge]

Yeah

[past stratus]

currently you take frags on almost everything

[calm shard]

On everything really

[uneven cedar]

Makes sense.

[calm shard]

Aside from a few builds where I run smokes instead

Smokes goated

[tame lodge]

And the bleed from frags also benefits from Uncanny Strike blessing

[calm shard]

My other havoc build to avoid stacking auras for vet runs smokes

They are very useful

[uneven cedar]

Yeah my vet isn't even 30 yet so I'm not really clued into how they function beyond that.

I've been taking krak grenades mostly cause in sub auric you can pretty much rely on even the worst of teammates to have smei-functional horde clear.

[past stratus]

I don't use smokes, I don't know how to use them. I used them once while leveling and most of the time feels like I'm griefing my team when I do lmao

[calm shard]

ngl

I think Krak Grenades are the worst blitz on any class in the game

[uneven cedar]

Yeah but one shotting crushers with a grenade is cinema.

[calm shard]

They're not very good at killing armor quickly, and that's like...all they do

[uneven cedar]

Btw how much am I trolling by taking the funny res voice mod?

[calm shard]

They also do kinda bad boss damage, but the stagger is nice

[faint beacon]

Surgical paired with what blessing are you using on MKIV?

[past stratus]

Kraks are good while you're leveling because your weapons are shit and you don't have access or a way to max them out. So Kraks do the heavy lifting

[calm shard]

Weight of Fire

[uneven cedar]

This has been my experience thus far yeah.

Man... the other classes really do get better versions of alot of vet's stuff lmao.

[tame lodge]

A bit more than you should

[past stratus]

yeah, it becomes less than useful once you have access to better guns

[faint beacon]

Im asking cause this was after a full charge shot

so he passed on WOF

[calm shard]

oh

huh

[tame lodge]

Just don't accidentally Rez your team on fire with your shout

[calm shard]

wait no his buff bar might be full

so weight of fire might have just not appeared

[past stratus]

the CD on the ress node is not worth the utility

it's funny to ress people by shouting, thematically

[steep flower]

They are nice as a burst dmg on a boss but thats it, not a sustainable dps option

[uneven cedar]

I'm putting together a thematic build for vibin' with friends (who don't really have an interest in going beyond auric) using basically every team buff node on the tree. I'm calling it the Commiesar build.

[tame lodge]

Real

"Get the fuck up!"

[calm shard]

I mean even then their "burst damage" on a boss is very unimpressive

Any melee weapon with adequate boss damage will outperform a krak in a couple of swings

[quiet valley]

That clip is Armorbane, but I have been running No Respite as of late. (Carapace/Unyielding)

[calm shard]

The guns with good boss damage will outperform them by the first shot lmao

[faint beacon]

MkIV Armorbane

[calm shard]

Mooching off of Arbites players huh?

[faint beacon]

that is an interesting/spicy pick lmao

[steep flower]

Do that with DC then

[faint beacon]

Tbf the MkIII and MkIV Tends to stagger by itself also

in defence of it

[quiet valley]

Yep haha, I find its a comfy pick to get pick off things that are already on the floor when you can't see their head

Also pumps your boss dmg when you cordinate with ur team

[faint beacon]

Oh with Armor?

huh

I see the vision but idk man LMAO

[past stratus]

Stagger has been an abundant thing in the game lately

[quiet valley]

(No Respite)

[steep flower]

Without stagger you lose in some situations

I would rather take big stagger than big dmg

[quiet valley]

Its just bonus dmg to me tbh, Helbore IV literally only need Surgical, second blessing is just icing

[past stratus]

yeah stagger is good, but I do think between Arby and Ogryn we might have too much stagger going on right now

[orchid hemlock]

GET UP!!!

[steep flower]

There is no such thing as too much stagger

[quiet valley]

Final Toll mfs

[steep flower]

Reds is a beast on its own; its bs and everyone who played havoc for more than a week knows it

[past stratus]

if I have two arbies and one ogryn on my team, we can be surrounded by enemies but feel like we're not

kind of crazy

[quiet valley]

Vet rework when, I want my ranged toughness dmg reduction on Exec stance

[calm shard]

I want the marking talents to give other benefits other than just marking new things

[hollow ibex]

meanwhile arbi

[calm shard]

And let me take more than one of them

[steep flower]

Better; dmg reduction not just toughness nor range specific

[faint beacon]

Honestly my favorite of the modifiers

untill the red bulwark shows up

then i get very upset

[quiet valley]

But then that would be like Execution Order keystone and we can't have that

[steep flower]

You’re weird and i say it

[quiet valley]

Castigator stance mfs

[rough cobalt]

Does ghost blessing remove the suppresion from gunners?

[faint beacon]

It makes Crushers horrifying

and I like that

[quiet valley]

It should be ranged TDR only on Exec stance

[past stratus]

I'm not smart enough to know what I want from a rework, but I would like to not go the same build on almost everything with only two keystones as an actual choice

[faint beacon]

Literally the only thing I hate about red is bulwarks cause they cant be opened up and they can actually fucking combo you

incredibly annoying

[calm shard]

No :)

[steep flower]

The only thing that is bad for red buff is bulwarks & ragers rest don’t matter

[quiet valley]

Just shoot them with Helbore, its really that ez

You can pop em in the head on the swing

[faint beacon]

Talking to a Vet who usually does melee if anything gets remotely close to him

but yes I see the vision

[quiet valley]

You are talking to a vet that does ranged if anything gets remotely closst to him lol

I have to be asked politely by the heretics to put my Helbore away

[past stratus]

Helbore is the only gun that I feel comfortable keeping when things are melee because bayonet is noice

[calm shard]

I recently stopped using flashlights with weapon customization on my helbore because it's damn annoying to have to put my helbore away to kill a lone poxwalker harassing me

Mk IV Helbores bayonet is still garbage but like

Beats switching weapons

[steep flower]

Arby, Oggy & Psyki have nice choices (psyki somewhat less but still acceptable); Zel has the worst imo, Vet has some choice but it is still quite limiting

[quiet valley]

MkIV bayo buff was a nothing burger for sure

like, it still actually does nothing

[calm shard]

Also a quirk I've noticed that irritates me a lot about Mk IV bayonet

You swing slower if you mash the button

[past stratus]

I wish I could put the MkIII bayonet into the IV, now that would be amazing

[calm shard]

You have to hold the button slightly and then release to actually swing at max speed

[quiet valley]

I get maybe 1 bayo kill per 2k-3k kills on Vet haha

[past stratus]

yeah I feel like with Vet, besides the main build everything else is "somewhat useful" if not flat out shit

[quiet valley]

With the new draw speed its faster to swap to an actual melee weapon if Im not gonna just shoot it

[tame lodge]

Can't have a gun being good at everything

[barren girder]

can anyone sell me on the mk3a helbore over the 4? 4 seems to have better breakpoints (even if i need max stacks + marksman active to 1 tap a crusher)

[tame lodge]

looks at

Idk

[calm shard]

Faster fire rate, better bayonet

[tame lodge]

Worse Iron sights

[calm shard]

Doesn't hold your talent tree points ransom for maximum performance

[tame lodge]

[quiet valley]

every Vet gun/build ever tho

[barren girder]

wait how so? what bps does it hit

[past stratus]

MKIII imo is only worth if you're learning the gun, because it eases you into the play style. You should swap to IV as soon as possible

[quiet valley]

Secret BP tech with MkIII, JUST SHOOT AGAIN

[calm shard]

Yeah that

[steep flower]

Mk IV bayo is dogshit, forced timer that you cannot accelerate between shots in any way is dogshit too; those are the only reasons i think its worse than Mk IIIa and what holds the mark from being top choice. Mk V does too little dmg

[calm shard]

Kinda like how when you fuck up your Mk IV charge (I would never) you shoot again

[barren girder]

ive been running focus target mostly since swapping to helbore to keep WS going felt like i may as well just use another gun with better drawtime

[quiet valley]

MkIII is def the training wheels version of the MkIV

[past stratus]

because the MkIV can be brutal to learn, frustrating even if you're not used to the way it plays, so the III feels like a nice entry point

[barren girder]

i find i dont use the bayonet at all so i appreciated 4's bps more

oh

should i just stick to the 4 since im already getting used to it then?

[quiet valley]

I think with proper play the MkIV will be more effective, its just a lot more punishing when you miss or have bad positioning (Shit Bayo and slower charge)

[past stratus]

I only use the IV bayonet when the AI director spawns little pox walkers around me. If it is not a horde

[steep flower]

I just don’t like that forced timer on IV; if i will have 2 targets at the same time that small timer with fk me/someone else up and thats BS

[faint beacon]

This has got me thinking in regards to Helby seeing I usually do around 1-6 shots before I swap back to melee

[agile mango]

this a bad vet build?

[steep flower]

I hope they fix this cause ot has no reason to exist

[faint beacon]

you stole my build

bar for bar

[barren girder]

wait im confused, what timer

[steep flower]

Nope

[quiet valley]

What forced timer? The bayo or the las charge?

[calm shard]

they probably mean the delay between shots

[steep flower]

Time between shots

[past stratus]

I don't think the center path is worth losing One Motion for, specially because it works with grenades

Plus I like the 5% movement speed node

[barren girder]

oh huh

i dont feel it much with WoF

[quiet valley]

I mean 95% of your shots are charged ones anyway

[agile mango]

lmao

[steep flower]

Only present on IV

[steep flower]

Other marks don’t have it

[quiet valley]

I can see how it could be annoying but its really a non-issue

[ember nest]

timer?

[agile mango]

I feel like 33% TDR is too good to pass up

[quiet valley]

I expect my weapon to be slow, and that works out for me since that gives better surgical stacks

[steep flower]

Untill as i said; you have 2 targets to kill fast

[past stratus]

it's up to, so I don't think you have the 33% most of the time

[quiet valley]

Not really, the delay is not nearly long enough that, that is an issue, uncharged shots are probably not going to kill both anyway

[steep flower]

Mk IV helbore has a forced timer between shots that you cannot skip or hasten in any way

[barren girder]

so for the mk4 focus target + marksman's the best way i can get crusher breakpoints if i dont want to run exe stance i assume?

[steep flower]

But it could stagger; and that would stop them from doing harm

[past stratus]

I guess the timer is the time between light shots? I don't think I ever use light shots on the IV

[quiet valley]

The delay is TINY

Like you are still in the aiming phase tiny

[steep flower]

Enough to bring the weapon mark down a tier vs Mk IIIa

[quiet valley]

What

[heavy rover]

I like the mkIIIa so I can stack armourbane faster than mk iv

[steep flower]

If you play havoc & know your positioning & stick together (which you should) then yes; all the time

[past stratus]

yeah that is true, if you have a coordinated team in havoc that talent is good

[steep flower]

Otherwise the only tdr is iron will and that is lost once you lose 25% of your toughness

[quiet valley]

you dont need Armorbane, just shoot the Crusher with the IV

[past stratus]

idk, I don't think the III is a bad weapon, it feels like what the Infantry Las should've been, I just don't see much point in using it once you get better at positioning and target priority

[calm shard]

yeah

[steep flower]

That skin goes hard ngl

[quiet valley]

Your Helbore looks like an anti-aircraft cannon 🔥

[barren girder]

oh do i need to use exe stance for helbores lmao

[calm shard]

No

[steep flower]

Not anymore

[calm shard]

You used to

But I didn't use exe stance to get that one shot in the clip lmao

I just replaced Weight of Fire with Sustained Fire

[atomic void]

wish weapon mod didnt noticeably fk up my game perf

i could use better ironsights

[quiet valley]

MkIV Irons are perfect wdym

[faint beacon]

I mean at least yours isn't a giant fucking block that instantly vaporizes 90% of enemies

[calm shard]

Mk IV irons are like okay

[atomic void]

i loathe 99% of iron sights in this game

[calm shard]

but I don't use them on mine because yucky

[steep flower]

Whats the lucky 1% then?

[atomic void]

we are in the 400000000 mellinia and the inquestion cant afford high tech iron sights for their crew

crazy things happening

[calm shard]

It's gonna be one of the infantry autoguns I can feel it

[steep flower]

We are convicts still

[quiet valley]

Um these are peak

[atomic void]

weirdly enough bolter iron sight is the easiest for me

[calm shard]

damn

[atomic void]

convicts that get plasma guns bolters and power swords

we're juiced

[ocean otter]

L class

[atomic void]

also yeah its easy to aim with those

[barren girder]

is this fine for mk4?

[normal bay]

Plasma is Meta not because of performance but because it doesn't use iron sights

[steep flower]

For the emperor is not needed (unless breakpoint)

[trim badger]

1 shotting all specials could easily be considered "performance" tho

[normal bay]

Who cares about that

[trim badger]

If anything 1 shotting specials is the Big reason why plasma is meta xdd

[normal bay]

I. CAN. SEE.

[atomic void]

cleaving 1000 elites also helps i think

[quiet valley]

What I use for H40 (When im not Exec stance)

You can swap the +1 grenade for swap speed if its more comfy

[normal bay]

Inconsequential

[calm shard]

the humble Mk IIb lasgun

[faint beacon]

I could never get into MkIIb

[trim badger]

Not enough for havoc

[faint beacon]

I think its the recoil pattern

[calm shard]

Yeah :(

[faint beacon]

MkIX shockingly though

[atomic void]

las guns recoil is one of the recoils of all times

[calm shard]

The humble Mk VII lasgun

[quiet valley]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-emoji-emoji-chorando-emoji-cry-cry-gif-25060390

Plasma users when there's 5 small shooters in various bits of cover

[faint beacon]

they have to waste valuable ammo

lmao

[calm shard]

banger gun tbh

[trim badger]

Plasma has wallbang

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/tremor-hands-shaking-hands-nervous-parkinson-gif-17474726

[trim badger]

:3

[hollow ibex]

average mk2 using vet

[barren girder]

huh does dropping focus target lose any breakpoints at all?

[calm shard]

It takes you one extra shot for a couple of things (Reapers, Bulwarks)

[quiet valley]

The BPs are little more rough than using Exec stance, but with Marksman you should clear everything comfortably, (Bar Crushers/Maulers)

[calm shard]

Provided you had max FT stacks when you pinged them

[barren girder]

also huh, toughness gen really seems rough outside of VoC on this class

or am i missin something

ive never run the top part of the tree through middle path lol

[trim badger]

Probably catch a breath

And confirmed kill

[quiet valley]

CoB is all we got

its tragic really

[barren girder]

oh is out for blood not great for consistent toughness or somethin?

[heavy rover]

(semi jokingly) What about mk iv with armourbane

[quiet valley]

It helps, but not by much

[trim badger]

Middle is better than right side on early

[heavy rover]

But yeah I see why the mk iv is nice, I just have a preference to stack armourbane against bosses

[quiet valley]

MkIV does way better boss DPS

[uneven cedar]

I like one shotting crushers with a charged plasma shot 🙂

[calm shard]

bop

[uneven cedar]

I'm just gonna put it out there that it's lore accurate and shouldn't be nerfed.

[past stratus]

I was never a FPS gamer so I never minded the sights on any weapons, I think the Helbore sights are fine

[uneven cedar]

Ummmm this requires you to aim.

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-be-mean-to-me-cat-cat-dont-be-mean-to-me-dont-be-mean-to-me-cat-don't-be-mean-to-me-gif-15497238928145977314

[barren girder]

i mean it can still do it with the proposed nerf of tranfering some power to the charged shots right?

[unreal nova]

Forces kills. GL with 3 dogs still.

[uneven cedar]

I haven't seen this nerf.

[trim badger]

It's kind of a waste to use plasma shots on carapace so I don't think that'd be nerfed

[barren girder]

it was leaked lol

[past stratus]

and yeah when I see Arbites getting Toughness by simply existing, it feels me with sadness

[barren girder]

like if they made it so heavier targets required the charged shots while the left clicks had toned down punch through it should be fine

[barren girder]

rip

[trim badger]

Vet literally has this wa

[barren girder]

bringing this class to havoc scares me and i main psyker

[past stratus]

Arby fighting a boss inside of a tox bomber cloud, gaining more toughness than the cloud damage is truly something to behold

[stoic thorn]

Not me tho

I'm better

[heavy rover]

Hi better

[stoic thorn]

I throw a frag despite having no grenade regen talents

[uneven cedar]

I love that Arbitrators get a rebreather talent despise the default appearance not having one and only having two cosmetics options that have one, meanwhile vet has a stupid amount of rebreather cosmetics xD

They truly can't have shit in Tertium.

[trim badger]

If you're willing to sell your soul and use DS + Plasma, vet is actually great

Like really really great

[past stratus]

If I'm inside a tox bomber cloud as a vet, I have maybe 2s to find the exit or I'm fucking dead lmao

[heavy rover]

Yeah that's fair. Though I'll take every excuse I can make to help support my team. So I'll take a mk iv, slap on armourbane, and run with it

[uneven cedar]

I wish they gave us a plasma pistol.

[barren girder]

ik the weapons are great, im just not too keen on the whole needing to kill a special/elite to get toughness back outside of voc if im running middle early path over the right path on the tree

.....then again auric-havoc has way more specialist spawns

maybe i'll try it, i havent unlocked auric on my vet yet

[uneven cedar]

I feel like rewarding the vet for shooting things is kinda perfect for the class fantasy personally.

[quiet valley]

Its not a bad pick tbh, its always helping, unlike a lot of the other conditional blessings, I just run No Respite instead now.

[barren girder]

i hope they dont nerf plasma too hard when it comes just cause dark angels are my favorite loyalist chapter

[faint beacon]

Vets the hardest to play in Havoc just cause you have nearly 0 room to make error however it trains you extremely well to be good at Havoc

[barren girder]

....the only loyalist chapter i like, even

[heavy rover]

Did you say always helping?
Well ** gestures name **

[past stratus]

at this point I don't think they should even touch the Plasma or the DS for this matter

[barren girder]

plays gun psyker instead

[past stratus]

just don't touch anything while this exists, thanks

[uneven cedar]

Rumbler is the only weapon I've seen someone use that made me say "that's actually broken". If someone brings the Rumbler, noone else really get's to play in my experience.

[unreal nova]

Not even balanced for H40?

[uneven cedar]

I can't speak to H40, I've only tried it once. I just think in general the range and damage is way too high. Also the noise is so annoying xD

[barren girder]

me wanting to play trauma staff in havoc but shit literally muting the game audio: 😦

[quiet valley]

Impressive but not actually H40

[trim badger]

You'll be killing more elites than trash in Havoc

[faint beacon]

Mauler + Crusher hordes

woe

Carapace upon ye

[past stratus]

yeah I mean, real H40 was made to be played with a team and all

[barren girder]

i'll switch over my nodes lol

[past stratus]

idk how this true solo mod works

[barren girder]

hopefully it wont be too bad in damnation 😭

[trim badger]

I mean you can choose the stuff that's all

[atomic void]

oh no, a good player soloed the video game! crazy taxi

ogryn is still stronger

[trim badger]

Only changes done in that video is removing the havoc modifiers (kept moebian because it forces you to at least keep 1 mutator) and removed the extra boss hp bonus

[uneven cedar]

Wait... if crushers aren't worth spending plasma ammo on, what the hell do you spend it on?

[quiet valley]

This run had disabled the reduced ammo spawns and also reduced monster spawns, according to the post

[trim badger]

Specials

[open ravine]

The smug judgmental beta Vet

[trim badger]

And gunners

And reapers

[quiet valley]

Also only Mobian 21st XD

[trim badger]

And anything that fires back

[quiet valley]

No other mod

Not even Rampaging

[barren girder]

oh the other reason im concerned abt toughness only on spec/elite kills - arbites with their mk3 shotties will wipe those clusters out before i can get it back 😭

[trim badger]

Yeah it forces you to pick at least 1 modifier so they chose the one that didn't mater xdd

Still impressive run

[atomic void]

bro is trying to copy reginald's vid except reginald came out iwth a vid saying that his previous vid was too on the nose and explained his point of view 100xx better without the pretense

[normal bay]

That's not even Havoc

Not at that point

[quiet valley]

I agree its an impressive run, just misleading title.

[trim badger]

If you're running VoC, iron will, close drill order and catch a breath you shouldn't worry much

[trim badger]

Is it?

[barren girder]

wat

[atomic void]

the solo run fella

[barren girder]

oh lmao

[atomic void]

read the description
he slipped in the >its le op talk

[barren girder]

i thought u were talkin abt mister e or some shit

[quiet valley]

What? H40 True Solo?

When Its not H40 with different ammo spawns and monster spawns, with only 1 modifier instead of 2?

[barren girder]

since he also released a vid about balance after reg did

[atomic void]

oh no mister e basically agreed with reginaldo

the darktide balance situation is crazy

[barren girder]

i find mister e harder to take in good faith sometimes bc his tone/clickbaiting makes you think he'll side with the buff everything homies only to compromise with the whole "buff errything to same level THEN nerf"

except he also unironically thinks a havoc higher than 40 might be good

[open ravine]

Mister e and reginaldo basically said fix the unintented op stuff and do more buffing/ reworking old stuff or nerf a lot of stuff and bring spawns down again

[trim badger]

He used to say "nerf plasma" but now he's on the "ok maybe don't nerf plasma" side

[atomic void]

i dont watch him much but he's upfront about him being lazy and liking op powerhouse builds but when he's not in clickbait mode he actually agrees that the classes are a tiny smidge too powerful

[barren girder]

yea i agree with the spawns

i just tend to side eye any unironic "just make havoc 60" regardless of context LOL

[atomic void]

to be completely fair i get it, dont nerf anything on vet before reworking it

just pakcage all the nerfs/buffs in a rework

[faint beacon]

I'll be honest im for Reworking plasma instead cause like

M2 should be the focus not spamming out M1

[open ravine]

I feel like there should be havoc 60 and such because a lot of the havoc 40s are getting upset the group is growing

[atomic void]

Ladies and gentlemen, Darktide’s current balance is lookin’ like a wet fart in a hurricane—completely outta control and somehow still hilarious. Zealots are built like anime protagonists hopped up on gamer fuel, just rawdogging the map with zero consequence. Psykers? Yeah, they’re basically budget Emperor Palpatines now, vaporizing everything with brain spaghetti. Meanwhile, the Ogryn’s out here clapping like a toddler in a talent show—god bless that beautiful beefcake, but he swings slower than molasses in January. It’s scuffed, it’s janky, it’s moist—and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[open ravine]

Let them have their difficulties and private clubs

[past stratus]

lmao

[uneven cedar]

Buff everything (except Ogryn and Arbites), give us genestealers is the best take I've seen so far imo.

[open ravine]

It gets them out of the casual chats

[uneven cedar]

Mostly cause of the genestealers :3

[barren girder]

no fuckin way u just came up with this

unless it's ai

then shame

[tame lodge]

Buff psyker and they'll break the game

(even more)

[barren girder]

fr

i think psyker's fine

[atomic void]

yeah

[tame lodge]

At best some node tweaks

Like Unlucky for some 💀

[barren girder]

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-pinkman-jesse-pinkman-crying-jesse-pinkman-screaming-jesse-pinkman-andrea-jesse-crying-gif-25171987

[past stratus]

this might be a hot take but I think difficulty should not go vertical anymore, it should start going horizontal. Instead of adding layers of more shit that is harder, it should probably be add more shit that does different things that are as hard as 40 but different

[trim badger]

I mean yeah ideally they should do zealot/vet tree rework in the same patch

Alongside balance xdd

[heavy rover]

Imagine if they did

[atomic void]

i wanted to make a charlie impression with his cringe ass way of talking about things

[barren girder]

im not sure thats actually whats happening? those premade 4 stack havoc 40 groups tend to just run whatever's fun for them while still challenging anyway

like i see a lot of casual players say that they're out of touch but idk

i havent touched havoc until like, last week and even i could relate to the whole "sure, i can choose not to use the op thing but if they're in my lobbies i dont get to play the game anyway" thing

(release assail)

[uneven cedar]

Recommendations on Plasma blessings?

[barren girder]

like shit when i was leveling vet to try new helbore during the dog bleed buff i stopped playing after one mission LOL

theres nothing to test the rifle on theyre all DEAD

[open ravine]

Go for the crit and high heat blessings. Easiest to maximise benefits

[uneven cedar]

That seems like just Psyker with extra steps tbh xD.

[past stratus]

this is a bigger issue than any of the nerd Havoc 40 shit anyone says

new player experience is x10 more important for the game on the long run

[open ravine]

Plasma used to be considered psykic

[barren girder]

tbh if i was new and had to do a bunch of lobbies with like, rumbler spam or anything of the sort i dont think i'd stay

[past stratus]

the same issue with the rambler

[barren girder]

like i think the whole warframe comparison's apt, i usually want something different from tidegames than the usual horde shooter

[past stratus]

is the fact that any player can pick some shit in game, that completely takes over games on any level and make new player's experience boring

[barren girder]

it's why im fine with the dumbass scarface rocket launcher bulletstorm build on payday 2 but not anything similar here

....oh we have the same points

LOL

[uneven cedar]

Warframe is kinda designed to compensate for everyone doing rumbler spam type stuff though. Darktide isn't.

[past stratus]

I leveled Ogryn during the patch because my friend wanted company while leveling his Arby and it was always me Ogryn with 3 Arbies. It was the most boring Darktide experience I ever had, literal walking simulator

[barren girder]

i feel that if the high level havoc 40 people framed their arguments less focused on havoc and more about that kind of "op shit makes other people not enjoy the game" they'd get less pushback

bc the pve = op shit is ok argument falls apart

[atomic void]

its more like u can only push the diff too much without breaking the game and making it run at 10 fps

[rough cobalt]

What is fastest way to finish Armourbane? (Kill 500 armoured enemis using krak granades)

[unreal nova]

Is more of a joke. Current rumbler would break H40 as well if it didn't come with limited ammo.

And no, RNG may or may not help.

[barren girder]

this too

[past stratus]

get all the grenade talents available

[barren girder]

which is why i find it so funny many of the people advocating for "buff everything and make higher havocs" are on console

like my brother in christ if they do that your console explodes

[past stratus]

besides twinned blast, I don't think that one helps

[barren girder]

please think ahead

[open ravine]

My issue is these havoc 40 players will tell you because they have 1000 hours and and study the stats down to the microlevel your opinion as a casual player aka the majority is actually wrong

[past stratus]

Also, in Mortis Trial, you get funky grenade talents that help as well

[unreal nova]

I mean, buffing vet is kinda expected. You currently need to hard minmax to do something 0 talent arby and oggy can do.

[uneven cedar]

The damage nade nodes won't really do anything cause it's a krak grenade lol, but the extra charge and regen will do wonders.

[barren girder]

i havent seen any of them do that? at least for reg and mister e

[unreal nova]

1 tap breakpoints in auric.

[barren girder]

idk about the other havoc 40 people

[unreal nova]

Easier on oggy tbh.

[barren girder]

yeah i'd like to see a vet buff

[barren girder]

of the other 3 base classes they're the ones that need to keep up with arby the most LOL

[past stratus]

Reginald is very clear that his worry isn't about them (H40 players) being challenged, but the health of the game. He just wasn't very clear in his first video

[rough cobalt]

Best diff for mortis trial Armoured enemies to be armoured?

Should I just go Auric

[unreal nova]

RNG.

[rough cobalt]

K

[unreal nova]

Same chance to roll scabs/dregs/mobian/cranial.

[past stratus]

I don't think there is a way for you to purposely get more armored dudes

[barren girder]

tbh i saw a funny comment on reddit the other day about just not communicating any buffs and nerfs moving forward to avoid the nerf meltdowns

like honestly? they should do it just to experiment

bc this is hilarious

[past stratus]

idk about that

people will find out anyways

[unreal nova]

Most ppl are sheep.

[open ravine]

Nah the darktide YouTubers actually take reasonable stances because they know people exist outside their bubble but like forum guys and the occasional discord guy will come round and tell you a x y and z are actually op because they can clear havoc 40 with them with ease despite regular players just finding it enjoyable and not that powerful

[past stratus]

there are people that understand this game on a fundamental level and have the tools to verify shit

[barren girder]

oh my god

[uneven cedar]

And then there's me 🙂

[barren girder]

ok i was missing this context lol

[uneven cedar]

Hi I'm vibes.

[barren girder]

from what ive seen of the darktide forums it's only a little better than the steam forums

[unreal nova]

Just have fun anyway.

Why play a game if you aren't having fun?

[barren girder]

i mean yea but ppl dont get to doom over it from just being announced LMAO

[uneven cedar]

I aim to play havoc at some point, I recently got a taste of H40 and I'm hooked now. but yeah I do feel like people tend to be extremely weird about game balance.

I played a fair bit of Overwatch a while back and listening to the community about balance there made me realise that games generally shouldn't have "perfect balance".

If it's live service, metas shifting and changing is generally healthy.

It used to be normal and not have so much negativity around it, but the last 5-10 years sentiment really seems to have shifted on this.

[past stratus]

I think it is not a hot take to say that H40 should be the last people they look at when balancing the game, considering the % of players that actually go that high. Sure they shouldn't be neglected but they definitely should not be the priority. And I think that for the most part they aren't

[uneven cedar]

I feel like with alot of pve games the balance isn't really felt very much outside of endgame though.

Like, to a certain extent the shredder autopistol is perfectly fine as long as your not doing auric/havoc.

But weapons at the upper end that do too much too fast (like the Rumbler) will effect everyone.

It's always aoe man xD.

[sudden cedar]

Turns out when you get swarmed by all the stuff that is being thrown at you, AoE tends to be really good.

Massive surprise.

[unreal nova]

I think games should be balanced on auric at best. With some weapons being a little better so more casual players have things they can use to not be/feel useless.

[uneven cedar]

No I more mean that aoe is really really difficult to "get right".

[barren girder]

auric's a good area yeah

[sudden cedar]

You can't get it right.

Someone will always complain.

[past stratus]

Agreed, Auric is the perfect middle ground between casual and super sweaty. If things work well there, then they should be fine in other difficulties

[uneven cedar]

The least they could do is reduce the area of the rumbler, and nerf the noise lmao.

[barren girder]

i dont think im actually aware of things people that h40 sweats say are op that arent actually op enough to hurt the game experience across the board

[past stratus]

this is also real, balance is never going to be perfect. But it could always be less bad

[barren girder]

like ik rumbler's one

[atomic void]

people saying the classes need nerfs arent havoc 40 sweats

[barren girder]

plasma gun WOULD be one if vet wasnt so... the way it is right now

[atomic void]

its anyone who palyed enough

and can see the power creep

[unreal nova]

Honestly, things like the DS just feels like crutches for more casual players. Could be slightly tuned down, but I wouldn't want it to basically become DC but for armor.

[uneven cedar]

Rumbler's the only one that's impacted me as someone who has been super dooper casual until the alst update.

[atomic void]

which in turn forces them to make the game more bullshit to compensate

[barren girder]

flamer and psyker staves probably need the infinite cleave toned down

arbites mk3 shotgun i feel borders on it but im not 100% sure

might just be me LOL

[atomic void]

its really strong

but i love it

[barren girder]

yeah thats fine lol

[past stratus]

yeah I agree with that

[uneven cedar]

If we're talking about the nitty gritty, my feeling on it is that it's falloff range do with a bit of shortening.

[barren girder]

like im not fully convinced it's in the territory of potentially making the game boring for others in your lobby

[unreal nova]

Rumbler needs nerfs though, or bug fixes hard.

[uneven cedar]

If you want to be doing stupid damage beyond close range use the other mark lol.

[unreal nova]

Like seriously, fixing Arby and forgetting Rumbler exist... FS please.

[uneven cedar]

xD

[trim badger]

It depends by defining what do you mean by "experience*

Cuz as much as I love DS and it's my favourite melee of them all, many people use it to be able to play on higher diffs than they should

[barren girder]

(me on inferno staff)

ig my threshold is if something someone's using is starting to affect the interactivity of other people in the lobby

[calm shard]

why do people not ping things eughagha

[barren girder]

idk how the threshold should actually be but thats mine personally

[trim badger]

Well before Havoc duelling sword defenitely did that xdd

It still does in Aurics

[barren girder]

i remember it early on release with like, boltgun + powersword vet LOL

to the point my psyker brain burst felt frivolous

and i dropped the game after 2 months

i was gonna play again with the new skill trees but assail turned me off

finally got around to playing consistently when arbites got announced

[uneven cedar]

Is the frag grenade radius bugged?

It seems stupidly far.

[unreal nova]

Why, a slight tune down. Maybe to the point it takes an extra hit to kill at least. Still could be a cut above for casuals to crutch on but not crazy busted.

[past stratus]

I just think the DS should not do that much damage on carapace. I'm fine with everything else

[calm shard]

It's big

Lethal Proximity blessing on the bolt pistol is bugged and makes all of your explosions bigger tho

[unreal nova]

Grenade tinkerer and lethal prox Bistol does that.

[steep flower]

Cause pepega

[uneven cedar]

Oh wait I also have grenade tinkerer on lol.

[trim badger]

Fatshark refusing to remove uncanny strikes from DS:

[atomic void]

nah its meant to be anti armor

its just too good at being anti armor

[zenith carbon]

real havoc 40 was made to be soloed by a dog

[unreal nova]

Any suggestions for good replacements from current pool?

[trim badger]

Flesh tearer

[unreal nova]

Then you get where lacerate.

[past stratus]

Uncanny is kind of thematic but I get what you mean

[atomic void]

clearly we need to give ds skull crusher

[trim badger]

Why would that matter

[unreal nova]

You baka.

[zenith carbon]

make its heavy charge way slower

[steep flower]

Cleave on crit blessing that is present on chainswords could be nice

[zenith carbon]

so thrust is worth using

[unreal nova]

Because mk2.

[uneven cedar]

I want a mark of plasma gun that works like the tabletop. 1 in 6 chance of exploding.

Every shot.

🙂

Charged*

[trim badger]

I mean MK2 would be the mark that would benefit the most from flesh tearer but

[uneven cedar]

Makes all charges supercharged.

[trim badger]

Again why does it matter if no laceratte

[unreal nova]

100% one shots everything but bosses, 1 in 6 to insta overheat.

[uneven cedar]

xD

Would be glorious.

[steep flower]

I can imagine 3 wound curio vets running it

[unreal nova]

The joke is some prefer lacerate over flesh tearer since crits usually means target ded.

[trim badger]

Fatshark nerfing uncanny to 60% is funny because it'll still be the 100% used blessing so

[elder vessel]

Veteran Power Spear
Normal Moveset with little anti armor, mostly horde mulching sweeps
Freely power on with no heat limit or hit count
Powered on uses stabbing moveset with almost no sweeps

[trim badger]

Yeah the point is to not destroy everything easier hehe

Laceratte on DS would make zealot even more of a beast

[unreal nova]

Another Martyrdom class, like if psyker can do it...

[steep flower]

Can vets even canonically use power spears/glaives? its more for a zealot than for an infantryman

[grand perch]

rough riders always had power spears or something

[elder vessel]

yes

[trim badger]

Also another pet peeve of mine but remove Agile from DS

[elder vessel]

and zealots aren't calculated enough to use a spear requires too much brain

[trim badger]

It's stupid that the weapon with long range and safe stagger gets infinite dodges xddd

[unreal nova]

Even with the suggested breakpoint nerfs to force at least an extra hit or two baseline vs things?

[uneven cedar]

Knowledge leads to heresy.

[trim badger]

I mean who cares about making it take an extra hit when you can eternal crit

With zealot bleed crit increase

[trim badger]

Just change it to Brutal Momentum pls Fatshark

[unreal nova]

I mean, you put an oggy or doggo and it's basically perma.

[trim badger]

True

[tame lodge]

Ah yes

checks note

[uneven cedar]

I replied to the wrong thing, that was in response to the zealots being too stupid to use a pwoer spear comment xD.

[trim badger]

MK2

[tame lodge]

Instakilling 4 targets at once

[trim badger]

hehe

[open ravine]

The relic sword

[trim badger]

Isn't the thrust attack supposed to only hit 1 person not because of mass but because it's made to hit only 1 person?

[elder vessel]

zealot
tiny body
big stupid

[trim badger]

Wouldn't brutal momentum not work on the poke?

[steep flower]

Magus obvious

[trim badger]

I don't see the issue for DS to have brutal momentum instead of agile then

wa

[unreal nova]

You can technically hit something behind if the primary is thin enough.

[open ravine]

If this about ds yeah but if it's about relic sword, I feel a 2 handed sword would be long enough to go through someone and hit person behind them

[unreal nova]

Cos it is a forwards momentum thrust.

Though IDK piercing armour and skull to hit another armour and skull.

[uneven cedar]

I just wanna remind everyone that this is a 40k game so physics does not matter in the least.

[unreal nova]

Cos I'm fairly certain the avg rapier or dueling sabre will snap at the point.

[uneven cedar]

xD

We're vibes based here.

[open ravine]

Just make it like plasma where carapace is just a hard stop to cleave

[trim badger]

Honestly? This is badass

As long as you can't swing around like old day Rapier to hit multiple people in a swing like pattern with the thrust, I'd actually like this a lot

[unreal nova]

Or just make cara cost more cleave somehow.

[trim badger]

Brutal Momentum could be fun

[unreal nova]

Looks cool even if it makes no sense, I know.

[trim badger]

What do you mean it doesn't make sense??