veteran-class

[pastel yew]

sure, but thats an issue with the rest of the tree not the ability

[open ravine]

Why you being a brat though I said you have some points but overall I think casigator preform better as ranged stance

[void dragon]

That trigger on impact

[pastel yew]

not really what you take frags though

you take em for the mega bleed

[tame lodge]

I'm not being a brat
I just don't like liars

It's simple

[pastel yew]

I'm sad the arbtes grenades arent heavy single target damage tbh...

[tame lodge]

[halcyon sigil]

it is, its the one keystone i liked when they gave us the tree, even though most people just hated them all

[open ravine]

I didn't lie

Why are you mad

[tame lodge]

Because you did bruv

[pastel yew]

I think most people were just sleeping on it, people were so critical of the conditional nature of the keystone at the time even though its super easy to fulfill

[tame lodge]

[pastel yew]

I also dont think people really factored in how good 10% attack speed is

[void dragon]

Also for that, but they are one of the few CC tools the class has, that's another reason why shout is so good

[past stratus]

the only thing I would want to change in it is the timer on the ranged spec part. It feels silly, the ranged proc is not even that great and it is one time use only. I see no reason for it to have a timer

[halcyon sigil]

pretty much that, was always funny seeing someone who complained yesterday warming up to it when they actually tried it

[open ravine]

How I said you have a point on immediate impact but overall casigator has better buffs for ranged

[tame lodge]

But it doesn't

Why you lying again

[open ravine]

It does

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean its super fun! it is also a little sleeper as theres another +attack speed node RIGHT before it

which is easily missed because its not in the keystone itself

you could TECHNICALLY get it without going ws but functionally you cant

[tame lodge]

This is casti

This is exec

Exec is literally better ranged ability

[halcyon sigil]

Im not a fan of the term tax nodes because some of them can have actually pretty good stat buffs, but people hate on them because they dont get a cool picture

[pastel yew]

how though?

[halcyon sigil]

the real tax for vet is the fact you have to pay to go sideways in the tree

[open ravine]

Casigator is the tank mode where you get mag refill on kill and more damage as you kill elites and specials

[pastel yew]

the actual ranged buff component of cas stance isnt even that noteworthy

[pseudo fiber]

Sorry if I'm being silly that's nuncio aquial

[tame lodge]

Oh yeah that's nuncio

Brb

[pastel yew]

compared to +25% ranged damage +25% weakspot damage

thats a huge damage steroid

[tame lodge]

Wait

[pastel yew]

depends really idm them but it depends on their frequency

[tame lodge]

Casti is even worse

[pastel yew]

I think the psyker tree really nailed the pathing

[tame lodge]

💀

[halcyon sigil]

arbie shotguns evaporating a horde, elites and all, in one shot is always something it see

[pastel yew]

yeah casti is literally just a meh tank ability

[pastel yew]

the movement hit on cas stance is so rough

[tame lodge]

There's almost no ranged buffs here

[pastel yew]

it basically kills the ability for me

it could literally make you invincinle and I wouldnt use it

[tame lodge]

💀

How's casti a better es when it doesn't have ranged buffs

[void dragon]

I get you are near indestructible to gunfire, to make the robo cop scene, but castigator doesn't feel like a tanking skill, more like a toughness reset

[open ravine]

The mag refill feels huge especially on longer reload or smaller mag weapons. ES suffers on these weapons so in my opinion feels worse and not as universal as casigator can feel

[void dragon]

Maybe because you can stand in the open answering fire with impunity

[pastel yew]

yeah its big just... I mean its fairly token benefit imo, especially when the other abilities are so stacked

[open ravine]

It's it's sub nodes you get the buffs

[tame lodge]

Oh sub nodes

💀

[pastel yew]

the forbidden dodge key

[tame lodge]

ES only needs

You guessed it

ES

💀

[halcyon sigil]

doing that with ghost perk on a vet gun is always fun

[void dragon]

You can also dodge slide in it, so you are absolutely indestructible to gunfire

[pastel yew]

its kind of a strange argument because although yes you only need ES the support nodes FOR ES are awful

[open ravine]

I'm sorry vet tree micro managing has ruined the idea that sub nodes are also a part of the ability

[pastel yew]

yeah, agreed... even if they WERE good they'd still be too expensive to take

this stupid shit

[halcyon sigil]

theyre just amputated bits being sold back to you at extortionate prices...

[pastel yew]

is one of the worst things in the vet tree

I Cant lie

literally a must have grenade regen node

and they have it lead into the most boring strongest ability

why

[pastel yew]

yeah they should all just be a base part of the ability.. it feels so silly

[open ravine]

Casigator is really good on forceful keystone as it gets a nice damage buff from it and you just go tank mode then disable the threats for your team to mop up

[tame lodge]

If you need 3 skill points to try and compete with a single skill point, then that's a problem

[pseudo fiber]

I'm gonna fix vet tree watch

[pastel yew]

🙏

[tame lodge]

Castigator is far away from being better than ES as ranged ability

🫡

[pastel yew]

yeah I've posted this exact screenshot in chat before

legit dude

this would fix so many issues

[pseudo fiber]

It'd save a lot of builds 2 points lol

[open ravine]

Yeah vet tree is really expensive and it's been a issue for awhile I think the community has been asking be fixed since like the tree released

[pastel yew]

I think they gave up after failing to design a cool tree several times in a row

its a shame because I think all of the vet node options are actually cool

outside of smokes...

[void dragon]

Plus a dogo

[pastel yew]

even still zealot needs a rework more than others

nerf duelist, make the rest of the class better

no more singular zealot optimal pathing

[pseudo fiber]

The build™

[pastel yew]

I dont even get why they reworked ogryn instead of just giving them weapon buffs and some things to help in havoc...

the big man felt fine, an honest class in a sea of power creep

[halcyon sigil]

tbf for ES the highlight all shooters one is one i do agree with as a modifer node, but not being able to highlight ogryns by default is just dumb and if highlight was shared to all allies by default it would give ES some extra team assistance to compare better with VoC

[void dragon]

Don't say that, we are not sure if Zealots are in the room

[elder vessel]

this bit of the tree is really good, good talents are scattered all around

Everything above the abilities though? Pain
Suffering
Agony

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean you can keep that as a node, I'm never going to take it is the thing though

[open ravine]

They should bunch the similar greys into one like they did for arbites as if you look at their Grey's they are actually stronger than normal greys well except for the generic ranged,thoughness and melee at the beginning but that is compensated by blues doing basically the same thing but with a bonus

[tame lodge]

Because their tree sucked

[halcyon sigil]

i want to keep it as a node because i dont want to take it, i need to see specials not my screen turn yellow

[pastel yew]

power level wise they felt fine though

you could mash your face into your keyboard and live

[tame lodge]

No

You have to spam heavies

[pastel yew]

no? I mean... I've played ogryn before

[void dragon]

My man didn't played pre rework ogryn

[pastel yew]

ah yeah, that was bad admittedly

but they werent weak

[tame lodge]

I mained ogryn

[past stratus]

I don't like Determined, I don't feel like it makes that much difference. Even when I was mainly a helbore dude

[pastel yew]

their heavy attacks for the two weapons that were good felt good

[tame lodge]

You really had no options

[grand perch]

there was no tree that deserved rework as much as ogryn

[tame lodge]

Gunlugger sucked

[elder vessel]

I just cant stand suppression at all

[pastel yew]

yeah but like I said buff their underperforming weapons

[cursive leaf]

they permanently change the day to monday for the good ol commodore?

[tame lodge]

FNP got nerfed into oblivion

[elder vessel]

purely subjective on me but I will never deal with it so it makes me happy

[pastel yew]

they didnt need a hyper adjustement

[tame lodge]

They needed

Really bad

[past stratus]

that is fair, I have a friend that gets motion sickness from it

[strange patrol]

Is there resource or list of actual good builds to look at?

[grand perch]

helbore has immense resistance to suppression and is basically unnaffected

[open ravine]

Except release vet tree on the initial release of reworked treea

[pastel yew]

idk dude outside of havoc it was bordering on impossible to die as ogryn

[void dragon]

They NEEDED it, many of their perks made no sense or helped the class

[pastel yew]

gunlugger at least had niche boss explosion

[tame lodge]

That doesn't mean the tree was good

[pastel yew]

no it doesnt

[tame lodge]

Gunlugger wasn't real

It was literally

One ability

[pastel yew]

but they can readujsut things without hyper buffing them

[grand perch]

that one wasnt finished tho. doesnt really count

[halcyon sigil]

i have it for Ilas simply because when a horde of gunners is suppressing the hell out of your position its when youre needed most to be shooting and shooting properly

[tame lodge]

The whole side of the tree sucked

[past stratus]

Ahh that makes sense, maybe I should brush up my Infantry Lasgun and use Determined with it. i feel like tht would be a gun that could benefit from it

[tame lodge]

Really hard

[pastel yew]

bro stop x reacting my messages I'm gonna have an anneurism in real time

[grand perch]

it would. though im a hardliner and never ever take determined

[tame lodge]

The ranged focused tree had let's see

[pastel yew]

gun lugger was all I played

[elder vessel]

Stop being wrong

[pastel yew]

idk, in auric at least they felt really easy

[mystic owl]

Why do you keep reacting with kisses to everyone of his replies xxx

[tame lodge]

10% ranged damage

[open ravine]

Remember when fatshark tried to gaslight us by saying vet is too good for keystones and you guys don't actually need them

[tame lodge]

As 2 separate nodes

[halcyon sigil]

granted thats a mental hold over from when the game still had shooting galleries where zealots could only sit in a corner and cry

[tame lodge]

5 each

[grand perch]

i dont tho

[pastel yew]

if I, as someone with basically no ogryn play time, can mash my head onto my keyboard and still compete in auric without sweating

they were power level fine

they just needed qol

stop buffing everything

[tame lodge]

That's what they did with the tree

[pastel yew]

less power creep

[open ravine]

Maybe it was just the forum's but they tried to justify it quite hard

[pastel yew]

sounds like something that one infamous cm would have said honestly

[tame lodge]

And the weapon buffs

[halcyon sigil]

im fine with FS buffing all classes to the same level of ridiculous if it means they can actually balance the rest of the games difficulty around the classes more consistently

[void dragon]

We do agree that current Orgyn is in need of nerf, but old Orgyn perk tree was NOT ok

[past stratus]

Ogryns are pretty nutty, they just got overshadowed by Arbites currently

[pastel yew]

weapon buffs were desperately needed

[tame lodge]

And a tree rework

[pastel yew]

tree rework =/= mega buff everything

[halcyon sigil]

arbites throwing shade on a lot of classes tbf

[pastel yew]

which is the impression I've been given by everyone who now seems to think ogy is turbo broken

[void dragon]

Perks in Orgyn tree were BAD man, idk how to tell you this more straightforward

[elder vessel]

so wrong hes looped around to being right

[tame lodge]

Because he is turbo broken now

[open ravine]

Arguably vet got weaker each time his tree got reworked

[pastel yew]

she* but thats what I was saying the whole timeee

that was my entire point

[void dragon]

Orgyn NOW is overturned

That's true

[pastel yew]

the overall power level of the class was fine, what wasnt fine was their choice variety

[pastel yew]

nahh... the first rework definitely was a down grade but the one after is overall better

[halcyon sigil]

the tree was weak but the meta builds were strong, therefore they nerfed the tree because ofcourse they did

[void dragon]

The old power level of the class was NOT good nor healthy

[pastel yew]

vet pre tree was also kinda nuts but that was so long ago I'm struggling to remember

[tame lodge]

Was fine if you only heavy

Heavy

Heavy

[pastel yew]

they were easy

[tame lodge]

Heavy

Oh woops

[pastel yew]

yeah but this falls under variety issue

[void dragon]

That's not a good thing either

[tame lodge]

You need lights for Paul

[pastel yew]

I Agree it was not fun

[tame lodge]

You need lights for Bully clubs

[past stratus]

I think Ogryn are strong but idk about broken. It feels like they do their jobs pretty well and that's about it. Well... maybe some of their ranged weapons might need a bit of a tiny tweak but thats about it

[pastel yew]

eh agree to disagree I think some classes should be easier

[tame lodge]

You need lights for cleavers

Oldgryn

Heavy

Heavy

[pastel yew]

you need a range of difficulty for your playerbase really

[tame lodge]

Heavy

Heavy

https://tenor.com/view/rayleigh-one-piece-crying-gif-7583256620608062087

[void dragon]

All classes should have an easy point, but also a place to reach higher

[halcyon sigil]

... i thought thats what the difficulty levels were for

[pastel yew]

its just harder to make classes that dont have accurate weapons more challenging because you remove a lot of skill input of aim skill

[pastel yew]

yes and no, I still want to play the game with my worse friends at a fun level

not everyone is gonna sink hundreds of hours in, there being some classes that are lower skill floor is good for that stuff

[elder vessel]

Its a PvE game if youre not playing on a controller aiming is always pretty easy

[pastel yew]

people that want a higher skill floor can gravitate to the other classes

[pastel yew]

also yeah this

[void dragon]

To this day idk how people play this game on controller

[pastel yew]

if every class was requiring vet accuracy though, console players would be even worse than they already are

[past stratus]

for the amount of times I've been killed by random barrels I'd say this is a pvp game 😠

[elder vessel]

necessity

[void dragon]

Ironic even more since we are on vet chat, the class that is supposed to be super accurate

[halcyon sigil]

the problem is if your classes arent equal in general performance then you cant balance the misison difficulty levels appropriately

[void dragon]

The game companies need to give mouse and keyboard to console players

[past stratus]

doesn't controller have like aim assist or some shit?

[tame lodge]

Yes and it's shit

Turn it off

[elder vessel]

I feel like vet doesn't have enough ranged focus in his tree, zealot is always melee no matter how you approach it. But Vet kinda lost that identity

[past stratus]

I don't play on controller so idk

[void dragon]

Yeah, everyone has gun now, it's not special for Vet to have gun

[pastel yew]

skill floor doesnt equal power ceiling though

like before

ogryn was low skill floor

but you need to be way better at ogryn to get as high of a result

they were just super safe

[halcyon sigil]

I would like if we had a second set of keystones like the arbie dog that are modifiers for our ranged weapon, so we can treat our weapon like arbies love their dogs

[pastel yew]

vet became more of an all rounder class but yeah

they are really good at everything

they're by no means bad

[open ravine]

I feel the same, vet is too much of a Jack of all trades class and not enough of a ranged class in terms of overall identity

[void dragon]

Make so we get many keystones specialized on each gun family to get neat buffs

[elder vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[pastel yew]

but equally yknow

if you ignore the actual dedicated ranged tree

it does suddenly become not the ranged class

[elder vessel]

I feel like his trees should be
ranged precision
ranged dakka
sneaky ranged

[pastel yew]

not shout therefore useless

[pastel yew]

boo no ranged dakka

[halcyon sigil]

feels like im an anti specialist specialist by trade, but had to pick up a bunch of side jobs to pay rent lmao

[pastel yew]

ranged combat that doesnt require you actual aiming is boring

its spectacle without substance

[void dragon]

Brautos not living to become the embodiment of dakka is so much of a crime

[elder vessel]

said the gunlugger

[pastel yew]

yeah but I rarely play ogryn, little treat :3

and the reason I rarely play ogryn is exactly that

[open ravine]

But the other classes seem to manage to get their identity spread throughout their tree and not just one branch

[pastel yew]

because all their weapons are shitty accuracy

they did get the like.. dmr stubber which seemed cool but I didnt really try it

[void dragon]

Me whit me sniper Orgyn: you take backsies

[halcyon sigil]

stealth as the focus of an entire tree is a bit much tbh, all we need are some one off nodes like [-30% threat when ADS for 5s] or something

[pastel yew]

the thing is though, its not like vet is getting only melee buffs in other parts, a lot of their damage buffs are just universal

vet doesnt need more damage

[halcyon sigil]

third tree focus could be heavy weapons

[pastel yew]

it has that

plenty of it

[void dragon]

Just like Arby...

[elder vessel]

but that would just be dakka tree

[pastel yew]

literally all vet needs is that screenshot shown earlier, grenade regen up to the one guaranteed node, and then collapse the subnodes so you can more freely go between the trees

idk the vet should be THE precision class

[halcyon sigil]

dakka is volume of fire, heavy weapons like bolter and plasma have overkill damage to play with

[open ravine]

I don't want damage I want buffs to playstyle like the other classes get

[pastel yew]

we already have plenty of other classes with a dakka focus

[void dragon]

Dakka is dakka, no matter iz smol dakka or big dakka

[pastel yew]

what more do you want then? vet gets mad toughness on elite kills and mad boosts to killing them

mechanically vet isnt struggling

its a tree pathing issue

[elder vessel]

precise ranged should be 1 tree, too limited focus for an ENTIRE class

[pastel yew]

tell that to ogryn bro

tell that to psyker

[past stratus]

I just don't like stealth as a mechanic in Darktide, one team mate disappears for a a while, all the aggro he was supposed to hold converges to another player. So the stealth player can go behind enemy lines and kill ONE (1) bad guy with big damage. I just can't really like that.

[elder vessel]

nah psyker has variety

[void dragon]

The class is not weak per see, but it's build variety is rivaling the zealots

[pastel yew]

psyker has gunpsyker and voidstrike if you want to actually aim

[halcyon sigil]

iz cald smol and big dakka cuz deres a diferenz

[untold mulch]

That would be cool ngl

[pastel yew]

its build variety is fine if you dont hyper metaslave

[void dragon]

But all Dakka

[pastel yew]

you dont NEED shout in the same way zealot NEEDS its single mega node

[untold mulch]

I wish tbh

[pastel yew]

a lot of the zealot paths are also pretty shit

almost all of the vet paths are okay at the worst

[pastel yew]

nah their ranged melee combo is fun

[elder vessel]

*leaving stealth suppresses nearby enemies*

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-gif-22232862

[pastel yew]

ws might be turbo broken but idm it because its actually engaging

[void dragon]

Yeah, but is a BIG spike of power there, be wary of not mixing the class power with your own capacity to compensate it with your skill as a player

[untold mulch]

Why every time I use infiltrate I at least pop a grenade or smth

Make the increased aggro a little easier to bear

[open ravine]

Ogryn a lot of take and give back out twice as hard buffs
Psykers either strong quelling the warp or strong being high warp with a variety of buffs
Arbites stagger gods who benefit from staggering
Zealot get speed and melee and stronger the closer to death they are but they do suffer a lack of flavour
Vet more damage not much in terms of playstyle buffs

[pastel yew]

I guess thats fair, but its also not fair to really judge everything else based on one hyper outlier

its like me saying all other vet weapons are dogshit because the plasmagun exists

[halcyon sigil]

it is, but if the game has shifted to the point where melee is a constant thing to be engaged with then vet just needs general melee perks spread across the tree rather than just one branch focus

[pastel yew]

almost all of them might be worse yes, but they're still really good

[void dragon]

The thing is that for what is happening in the ObeseFish balance, it seems that the outliner is meant to be the average

[elder vessel]

yeah some melee buffs should be sprinkled throughout, but the focus should remain on your range

[pastel yew]

the fatshark balance team is just one guy throwing darts at a dartboard, you can't convince me otherwise

[void dragon]

I will not, for I believe it's not aman but a chimp

[past stratus]

yeah idk I remember when Zealot stealth was the thing you would see in every lobby and there were a few cool clutch moments when they saved allies but that was about it. Most of the time it just felt like we had -1 guy.

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-gif-23945636

[halcyon sigil]

the monkey will write shakespear levels of balance eventually

[pastel yew]

fatshark carefully buffing really underperforming weapons

[untold mulch]

Agreed, enemies spawn in such obnoxious ways that you are forced into melee often enough

Except the average idiot who magdumps even on melee vs 4 ragers

[pastel yew]

also fatshark: yeah lol lets take that top 1 ranged weapon and buff it again

[elder vessel]

precision balance changes on display with the ogryn

[pastel yew]

oh and lets buff scriers gaze as thats probably underperforming

sometimes they nail it

honestly I really think the thunderhammer buff, although not huge, did bring the weapon to where it should be

current thunderhammer is my take on what every weapon should be in terms of power level

a world where my beloved chain axe can exist in peace without being outperformed by other weapons that do its niche just as well without the draw back

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-cute-dog-shaking-dog-puppy-cute-puppy-gif-25485866

[halcyon sigil]

still sad the combat knife mk3 got nerfed because of zealots on meth, it used to be a really neat omnitool for vets

[pastel yew]

I dont even member which mark I used

I used the stabby one that everyone said was bad

wait when did the knife get nerfed

my heart is going to break into 1000 tiny pieces

they only ever nerf the fun shit dude

voidstrike nerf, knife nerf, ranged fury of the faithful nerf

[untold mulch]

I get it would be a pain

But I really dislike the shared weapon balance

[halcyon sigil]

a while ago i assume, it doesnt do crowd control nearly as well as it used to, the shove barely staggers stuff now

[pastel yew]

theres definitely something to be said about them sharing weapons making it very difficult to strike a good point for all

but hoenstly I dont mind some things being a little too strong

[untold mulch]

Yep

Balance around melee

Oops useless for Vet or too strong for Zealot

[pastel yew]

as long as its not so strong as to actively make my experience worse by having someone on my team with it, we good

[untold mulch]

Balnce ranged

Oops Vet weakspot buffs just made it do a bit more than expected

[tame lodge]

Chainsword

[pastel yew]

I'm just a humble chain axe farmer watching people one shot the crusher I'm already about to kill with the DS mid rev ;-;

[untold mulch]

I want to love the Csword but it takes soooooooooooo long with Crushers

I go shovel

so I can actually kill them

[pastel yew]

depends really, a lot of the time I'd say its the opposite

the combat axe for example is WAY better on vet than zealot

[untold mulch]

Why tho?

[halcyon sigil]

that so many of our armory is shared with 2 other classes is why I wish we had more keystones focused on tailoring builds to let vets do more with the same gun

[untold mulch]

I say this as someone who ONLY uses Csword or Shovel

I play Vet to shoot shit

[pastel yew]

better breakpoints without needing to initially dodge, and better synergy with the class over all for things like weapon spec

one swing fully charges weapon spec crit

[halcyon sigil]

granted FS struggles with balancing the weapons that are class specific too

[tame lodge]

5 stacks of headtaker on vet with a proper Rashad build

2 shots reaper

[pastel yew]

the rashad is quite silly

fun weapon though

rare for me to like a really mindless moveset but

honestly the sound of their heads coming off sends me into a state of tranquility

[midnight totem]

I play vet to be Rambo, knifing heretics

[untold mulch]

I love Csword ripping and tearing, but man

The commitment is too high for the constant horde spawn

[past stratus]

I played Knife for the longest time and I still think it is one of my favorite vet weapons

but I do prefer the Power Sword for constant horde

[pastel yew]

honestly I want to love it

but its elite kills are so limp

[untold mulch]

Exactly

[pastel yew]

its basically just a pleb munch weapon in a game where the plebs arent an enemy they're health packs

also yeah powersword is almost as good horde clear wise and still has nutty elite kills

AND it has a cooler moveset

we love the power sword thrust...

[past stratus]

I just wish there was a talent somewhere that allowed me to add a bit more mobility to it

[atomic void]

day 1000 of seething about trees epic style

[thorn lark]

It has never been nerfed.

[past stratus]

I wouldn't mind paying a talent point to add extra dodge distance, sprint speed or even just an extra dodge

[untold mulch]

PS I hate to use

I don't like the constant loop of use of it

[nimble wadi]

Can someone please help me with agri shotgun 😫

I feel like I’m doing something wrong

I’m not hitting breakpoints even with headshots

[thorn lark]

manstopper scattershot if you go crit for the slug

[pastel yew]

try the mark that lets you cancel the charge

thats also the one that gives you the mad ogryn/boss damage combo in push attack light 1

[untold mulch]

Nah, I am aware of that thing, but still

[pastel yew]

at what range n difficulty?

[untold mulch]

PS just feels boring

It doesn't have the rawness?

lacks violence

[pastel yew]

thats fair yeah

its just a shame a lot of the weapons that have that are just spam lights ;-;

[untold mulch]

😔

[pastel yew]

oh they're the chainaxe... #1 chainaxe fan

oorah

oneshotting crushers just feels good

[nimble wadi]

I’m using full bore and the stagger damage one (executioner?) with flak and unyielding

[nimble wadi]

Auric/havoc

[pastel yew]

for havoc I'd have no real idea on the shotguns as they're hard to test for since pyk hasnt got support, but for regular auric you should be able to consistently one tap headshot up to 15m

can you post your skill tree

I used to run exec stance shotguns before

that was fun

but you basically needed exec stance then to make them not shit

[midnight totem]

Reminder they took away our 20 percent sprint efficiency node

[past stratus]

of all the movesets of the melee weapons I've played so far, I think the Claw Sword has the coolest looking stuff, I really like parry.

[past stratus]

😭

[pastel yew]

thats the one underspoken benefit of exec stance... all that damage mod makes a lot of underperforming weapons suddenly very acceptable...

[nimble wadi]

I can later, afk atm

[pastel yew]

I just wish it came out faster and wasnt such a huge window... it kinda defeats the point of a parry when you can massively whiff the timing and it still goes through because the window is that big

[tame lodge]

Zealot still has it

[pastel yew]

fair fair

[tame lodge]

😭

[nimble wadi]

Nvm I’m using full bore and no respite

[pastel yew]

just sprint slide... infinite stamina (conditional)

[past stratus]

the game is too hectic for the parry window to be precise lol

[pastel yew]

maybe so but ... having it be a little shorter would be fine

[past stratus]

that would just make it obtuse to use

[pastel yew]

it feels like you hold that shit for a solid 5s

if it was shorter and the parry faster, it'd give the weapon a really good back n forth flow

[midnight totem]

Vet just needs another actual dedicated melee weapon

LIKE POWER FIST

[pastel yew]

I'd like to actually weave the parry into my attacks rather than it being a hard callout defense option

[pastel yew]

POWER FISTTT

big agree

[untold mulch]

POWER FIST

[past stratus]

I think that is just unnecessary skill taxing on something that is not even that good to begin with

[pastel yew]

I said this earlier but

power fist + give it to the arbites

[pastel yew]

but it could be goood

[past stratus]

It's like Deadshot, it doesn't do much but if you're not careful with it, it drains you completely

[pastel yew]

deadshot is meme tier

I love it though

[stuck tree]

my vet being edgy

[past stratus]

I would love Deadshot to be a reasonable option

[pastel yew]

deadshot + %stamina regen from focus target

cooking.

yeah

[past stratus]

instead of a bait talent

[pastel yew]

it drains a little too much

the bonus you get is nice

but the drains a bit too intense unless you run focus target for the % recovery

which is another point spent

but combining that with 2 stam curios and a weapon with deadly accurate?

gold.

[past stratus]

a lot of the veteran talent tree has that, very short punishing windows for things that are not even that good

[midnight totem]

Power fist power fist power fist

[past stratus]

I'm not against skill expression but requiring skillful, mindful use of mechanics for shit buffs is just stupid.

[pastel yew]

deadshot is very much like "you need all of these things BUT IF YOU DO GET THEM LIKE.... you can make this one underperforming weapon better because of a specific blessing"

it is fun though but oof

[pastel yew]

can you provide some examples ig

[pastel yew]

its the vet weapon thats been coming soon for 7 months :3

[untold mulch]

I feel like is a constant punish for it being the good class from patch 1-12

[past stratus]

again, why is For the Emperor 5s? Why is the Ranged Activation of WS a short timed window? It is a small little buff that is not even that fantastic

it is a single shot

[unreal nova]

I wanna follow Commissar Raege.

[untold mulch]

That or the recent design team is clueless of what makes Veteran appeal

[unreal nova]

Powerfist bistol.

[past stratus]

There is also that other talent that is 5s, always forget the name of it, lemme look it up

[pastel yew]

you're a little off here, I do get your sentiment though

[atomic void]

i think power fist is gonna be 2 tricky for them to add cause its not a weapon u can hotswap from

[pastel yew]

for the emperor is in a weird spot where individually it isnt something special

[past stratus]

Agile Engagement

[pastel yew]

but when combined with the other nodes of its kind you get a huge boost

[past stratus]

5s

why?

[pastel yew]

because its meant to be part of that lines theme

which is swapping

also

agile engagement is turbo good

[midnight totem]

-looks at Arbitrators carrying around two shields-

[pastel yew]

its literally one of the best nodes in the vet tree

[past stratus]

they could lower the damage buff to 20% or even 15% and remove the timed window or make a reasonable timed window and that would be fun to play with

[midnight totem]

I dont think it's that much of a problem

[pastel yew]

counterproductively this would actually make it worse

[elder vessel]

spear* spear* spear*

[pastel yew]

as the reason you take agile engagement is because of it pushing your weapon over certain breakpoints for example both the knife and bolt pistol

with agile active get new breakpoints

[midnight totem]

Not just spear.

Spear with krak warhead tips

[void dragon]

Only if it's one of those explosive spears

[pastel yew]

the uhh.. riding lances? fuck what are they called

[elder vessel]

ah yes your melee weapon has blown up

you no longer have a melee weapon

[past stratus]

Agile Engagement is turbo ignored, I don't ever use it anymore because in the ocean of things I have to worry about during normal high difficult Darktide gameplay, I don't want to be bothered with juggling multiple 5s buffs

[pastel yew]

based

[elder vessel]

Power Spear

[pastel yew]

it just isnt though like

I promise

[elder vessel]

turn on the spear

[pastel yew]

this isnt me hard coping over something thats mid

agile engagement is genuinely one of the best nodes in the vet tree

[atomic void]

looks goofy but u store a shield on your back, u cant just take the power fist off to swap to a bolter

[void dragon]

*Veteran pulls out another one

[pastel yew]

its really strong

[topaz lance]

please delete this node forever:

[atomic void]

they'd have to find a way to make it work with every weapon

[midnight totem]

You now have a stick, Guardsman! Still has the basic AP of a lasgun! Get back to work

[atomic void]

or just straight up make it vanish when u swap

[elder vessel]

Counterpoint make it like 75%

[atomic void]

which would look silly as shit

[pastel yew]

suppression is such a strange mechanic

[unreal nova]

100%. Take it to range bully anything.

[void dragon]

Hunting lance

[pastel yew]

close enough ;-;

[elder vessel]

its great as a defense against shooters but also it affects players which is cancerous

[midnight totem]

Then vet still has the other 50 percent suppression node lol

[elder vessel]

we just need more weapons that can do it competently

[pastel yew]

unless you're using a weapon with hipfire accuracy for some reason

yknow the vraks headhunter

[past stratus]

suppression on players is weird because the screen shake makes some people sick

[pastel yew]

has 100% hipfire accuracy

for the first shot

[unreal nova]

Also double that. 200% more supressiom. If you go both.

[elder vessel]

determined my beloved

[pastel yew]

and its completely immune to suppression

also the plasma gun innately ...

even more strangely

the agri slug shotgun

[trim badger]

Knife is still either 2nd or 3rd best option

[pastel yew]

the slug has 100% hipfire accuracy too

[tame lodge]

Shotguns are immune

[midnight totem]

Laspistols are near suppress immune

[tame lodge]

Fucking laser pistol

[midnight totem]

As are helbores

[past stratus]

yeah I understand that talent better now that I see it through the player's perspective less than the class's

[pastel yew]

mhm mostly pointing it out as I find it funny the hipfire slug is dead ass the most accurate thing in the game

[elder vessel]

its kinda ass but I always take it because the game is just more fun that way

[pastel yew]

my beloved.... combat knife is fun

[untold mulch]

It does?

A shame, I like suppression mechanics for both sides in a game

[pastel yew]

it can stay a little juiced

[untold mulch]

makes my mind go yeah time to rethink this approach

[past stratus]

yeah my friend struggles with it

[untold mulch]

F

[trim badger]

Uncanny need to be nerfed on knife as well xdddd

[pastel yew]

tbf I think suppression is fairly easily avoided so long as you're not in a bad position but it can be rough for clutch moment

something WILL go wrong

[past stratus]

I don't really notice player suppression as much

[pastel yew]

nahhh I dont mind the knife being good into armor and single targets

[past stratus]

never felt the need to take Determined

[pastel yew]

especially when the combat axe can be good into carapace and still be killer horde clear

[elder vessel]

I never feel it, thank you determined

[pastel yew]

the knife has a proper weakness in that its shit for dealing with the horde

admittedly... its move speed does let you counter that

[grand perch]

bro's determined to waste that point

[pastel yew]

but at least it has a solid drawback

vs the generalist allrounders which tend to just be good at everything

[unreal nova]

By running away from the problem.

[pastel yew]

just running endless circles 🙏

cant kill you if they cant catch you

[unreal nova]

Or well, running away from the problem as they bleed out from frags.

You did take frags, RIGHT?

[pastel yew]

I think the knives main issue isnt really its balance its the players that abuse it to just avoid the game n ditch the team

like I dont want the knife to have bad movement

it feels so unique compared to everything else

[pastel yew]

taking smokes

I need the points for weapon spec nodes

unless I play havoc... then I can take frags... waa

[trim badger]

Best mobility should not have best anti armor xddd

[pastel yew]

yknow the nice thing about spokes? it has a hidden buff

that gives you two talent points

[elder vessel]

a common victory against the moebian trash, gunners cant supress this ass

[pastel yew]

because you dont need to buy grenade regen

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-cat-funny-smile-happy-gif-7621419476068285580

[pastel yew]

why not? its the single target clearing weapon

its trade off is that its horde clear is dogshit

it also doesnt have the best armor

thats just false

[past stratus]

what is wrong with grenade regen?

[pastel yew]

that'd be the ds

also the rashad is killer into armor despite having no weakness

also several other niche options delete armor too

[halcyon sigil]

[pseudo fiber]

It's not bad enough

[trim badger]

"I'm comparing Hitler with mega Hitler, that means the first Hitler is not a problem"

Don't take it too literal silly

[pseudo fiber]

3.5 cleave?

Should be 1

[grand perch]

0.0001

[pastel yew]

not bad compared to what exactly?

[grand perch]

achlys axe levels

[pastel yew]

the chain axe? fair

[trim badger]

It doesn't have the bonkers mobility of knife/ds

[grand perch]

nono

achlys combat axe

[halcyon sigil]

in the current state of the game if a melee had too bad horde clear it wouldnt be viable as a weapon

[grand perch]

0.0001 cleave

[pastel yew]

the rashad is better than the combat blade in low havoc/auric down

combat blade is just hyper good in high havoc because the thing it does well is exactly what you want from your melee in that mode

also the rashad still gets move speed just less

[trim badger]

Yeah that's why uncanny needs nerfing

Just like they plan to reduce it to DS

[pastel yew]

so the combat blade can be good at ... what... just moving?

you can get to a target then not kill them

[trim badger]

Single target unarmored

[pastel yew]

or have to rely on bleed build stuff

[tropic notch]

Me think the knife should stay were it is

[pastel yew]

great so mid to shit then?

[dry cloak]

because youre right

[trim badger]

Tbh I would like a maniac dmg buff on knife if they nerfed uncanny

[pastel yew]

no melee weapon should be bad into carapace is my opinion

[past stratus]

yeah idk, I think the knife is fine

as is

[pastel yew]

knife is fine yeah

its strong

[halcyon sigil]

i would not want to duel ragers in a knife fight ngl

[pastel yew]

but its got drawbacks

theres nothing wrong with it

its not too dominant at what it does

[tropic notch]

Yeah let’s make the shovel even worse

[halcyon sigil]

which knife we talking btw, III or VI?

[pastel yew]

shovel should let you dig holes... then it'd be good

[trim badger]

I never said to nerf uncanny on shovel

[past stratus]

the slidy stabby one

[trim badger]

That's one big stretch you're making lol

[pastel yew]

both IIRC VI has better hordeclear but its still weaker than most other weapons, certainly weaker than every other weapon thats actively used by players

I use mk3 though because stabby stabby appeals to my inner brit

the mk4 moveset is so much less fun

[tropic notch]

Both preform about the same

[pastel yew]

idk weapons should be nerfed when they're in a position of being so overdominant at their job as to completely nullify other options used by others

[halcyon sigil]

yeah thats my experience with them then

[pastel yew]

I have never felt that way with a knife on my team

[trim badger]

Nah let's be fair it currently doesn't really

It's silly to say knife has drawbacks

[past stratus]

the only melee weapon I think needs a nerf is the Dueling Sword

[tropic notch]

Knife is fine no need for buffs or nerfs

[pastel yew]

I mean is the argument here that it has even decent horde clear?

also

again

[past stratus]

the Dueling sword is stupid

[pastel yew]

why nerf it

what is it doing to the game that is bad

that requires it to be nerfed?

what good would that bring

its not overperforming

unless you generally want carapace to be stronger

which is a fair take

I dont agree with it

I think that'd limit player choice and be quite boring

[dry cloak]

carapace should be stronger

a lot

[trim badger]

I think it is

[halcyon sigil]

carapace can be stronger if there wee weakpoints to exploit

[pastel yew]

they should be stronger, but not by making it so you have less ways to deal damage to them

as the weapons that cant deal with carapace feel awful to use

[tropic notch]

Yeah I should bring a knife into havoc 40 with my vet or zealot

[pastel yew]

at what level of play?

[halcyon sigil]

the reason knife has as good AP as it does is to simulate crawling all over them and jamming it in gaps

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-funny-cat-meme-tweaking-gif-1135020915071455925

[pastel yew]

only high havoc

[dry cloak]

pointy stick overshadows a dedicated ant artmot weapons like thunder hammer

[pastel yew]

lets not balance the game around a dogshit game mode 🙏

[dry cloak]

its should not

[trim badger]

40

[pastel yew]

thats because the thunder hammer is not good into armor lol

[dry cloak]

it is

at deleting enemies

[past stratus]

the problem is that it is overperforming compared to other melee weapons. The problem isn't what it does it is what it does compared to other weapons. If everyone is sitting on a 5 and something is doing 9, you either bring everything to a 9 or you bring the one thing to a 5. Otherwise it just makes weapon choice a shit thing

[pastel yew]

its too reliant on its charge, it is great into armor when you have it

[trim badger]

But it's not just havoc tho?

[pastel yew]

outside of havoc its not overperforming compared to other weapons

[dry cloak]

game aint balanced around havoc mate

[pastel yew]

and again

[dry cloak]

it fucking is

yoiu dim wit

[pastel yew]

the reason it is that good in high havoc is because its specific strengths appeal to what you want in the game mode

it was always going to be S tier in havoc

any weapon that was specced around fast elite single target was always going to be

[trim badger]

Before DS literally everyone was saying to nerf knife tho???

[pastel yew]

brother you need to take a breath and not insult me 🙏

chillax

[trim badger]

Did people just forget about it or are they grateful the knife is not as broken?

[tropic notch]

Vet is already limited with his melee enjoyment

[pastel yew]

rashad outside of high havoc is literally better than the knife

which sure we can nerf that too

if we're going to bring all weapons in line

[past stratus]

idk I think the knife does one thing good, it lacks on other things. I never agreed with people saying it was broken

[pastel yew]

but thats not whats going to happen

[past stratus]

now the DS I do agree

[trim badger]

Rashad at least has a little more risk which feels fair...

[past stratus]

it's a silly weapon

[pastel yew]

and again, the knife isnt so strong as to make my experience worse if its on my team

[tropic notch]

Knife trades off damage for mobility

[pastel yew]

if someone runs a plasma gun or a dueling sword I feel it actively making my play worse when using lesser weapons

the knife doesnt give me that vibe

[trim badger]

Uncanny bypasses this that's the issue

[dry cloak]

crushers should be what choas warrior are in vt2

[trim badger]

I don't think the knife itself is the issue

[pastel yew]

2 really... single target clear and its movespeed

its a LOT of speed

[trim badger]

It's uncanny strikes

[dry cloak]

to one hit them you should have to use abilities

not just have a pointy stick

[pastel yew]

the knife trades horde clear for single target damage

[tropic notch]

Against armored

[pastel yew]

you're not consistently one shotting crushers with the knife thats bs

[trim badger]

ya

[pastel yew]

carapace enemies need to be buffed

[dry cloak]

in general

[pastel yew]

but not by making the armor have less options to bypass it

[dry cloak]

and cycle of power creep will continue

[pastel yew]

carapace is already too much of a damage reduction

[tropic notch]

And you want it to just be good at single target unarmored?

[pastel yew]

its polarising

[past stratus]

The problem with the DS is that it does too much damage for how insanely safe it is. The knife doesn't even come close to how quickly and safely the DS can dispose of supposedly dangerous melee targets such as crushers and Maulers

[pastel yew]

they need to be buffed to adjust for that, and it'd make melee weapons that cant deal with caparace feel a lot better

[trim badger]

I don't want it to absolutely suck against armor, but 100% rending for hitting headshots is stupid

[dry cloak]

as it should be

[trim badger]

Should be brought down a little

[past stratus]

the stabby heavy has an insane range for how much damage it does and how fast it is

[trim badger]

60-75% should be better

[dry cloak]

120%

[trim badger]

(the extra doesn't matter much really)

[pastel yew]

why? so some weapons can be unaffected and others can be turbo gimped.. you'd have a point if all the anti armor melee weapons had significant drawbacks to other areas but they dont

[tropic notch]

With out uncanny it will

Unless you use precog

[pastel yew]

the knife has its horde clear drawback, the chain axe has it even worse but the same line of thinking

[trim badger]

Then buff AP and remove uncanny from it, or just nerf the effect from uncanny to 120% to 60% like they want to do with DS

[dry cloak]

mate take a 5-10 mm hardened steel palte and try to pierce it with rather flimsy saber

[pastel yew]

I'm fine with carapace enemies being stronger, but right now its literally do 0 damage, or kill them rapid

[dry cloak]

ds should nt be that strong

[tropic notch]

[trim badger]

Truth nuke

[pastel yew]

you're not thinking with the right state of mind here... in real life you're not forcing the blade through the plate you're using the accurate thrust to get in gaps of the armor??

[past stratus]

I don't mind the knife having good single target because you have to get close and commit. You don't need to commit to shit with the DS

you just poke from a safe distance and obliterate shit

[dry cloak]

yes joints and stuff. but ds4 is just clicking on heads

[trim badger]

Guys why are we bringing megahitler to argue knife is fine tho

[pastel yew]

on that we agree, but where I dont think nerfing uncanny really does anything to fix this... the issue remains and then just feels worse because you have even fewer options

[pastel yew]

yes because mechanically you can't really implement that witout adding a load of new hit locations?

you can justify it in your head though

"oh the sharp thing is bypassing the gaps"

it makes perfect sense

[tropic notch]

Tbh people cried for Rashad nerfs because of how good it is as an all rounder weapon

[pastel yew]

the "you cant force a tiny blade through plates" argument is so needlessly specific

[pastel yew]

I mean I'd be fine with it getting nerfed

but again

[trim badger]

Cara nerf + reduced crusher spawn would be the Best approach, this would allow us to actually nerf uncanny from knife without "making it useless"

[pastel yew]

it doesnt impact me when my team have it

literally the only nerfs I care about are ones that hit such weapons

or hit abilities which make the game more mindless like shout/smite

[dry cloak]

DS in generall neds a nerf its such a utlier in every mertic but horde clear its stupid

[trim badger]

It's kinda silly the game sends you 5 crushers in auric and 20 on havoc at a time

[pastel yew]

if someone wants to use a really strong weapon fuck it, enjoy it.. have fun

[tropic notch]

[pastel yew]

it only becomes an issue when they're literally one shotting things I'm fighting with my lesser weapons

[dry cloak]

say it to people hating on rumbler ogryns

[halcyon sigil]

I think its importiant to remember weapons are part of a 2 piece kit, you want a melee that covers for the weaknesses of the ranged, or visa versa, and some ranged weapons just have a lot of relative weaknesses

[pastel yew]

I'm hating on rumbler ogryns because they fucking knock enemies over instead of killing them when I'm literally about to kill them 🙏

[elder vessel]

All axes besides chainaxe should be bad because I dont like them

[untold mulch]

On a related note

The Arbites dogs are slowly draining my sanity as a Vet.

[pastel yew]

yeah I'd say so... though I'd go more along the lines of generally having carapace provide less resistance and then give em a little more health/ attack speed

[trim badger]

When My voidstrike psyker knocks the trapper I was about to shoot with plasma 💔

[pastel yew]

as currently ogryn attacks are so fucking delayed as to be pointless

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-pattinson-lighthouse-screaming-shout-scared-gif-17035752

[past stratus]

Carapace does make some weapons pretty difficult to use, I wish Autoguns got more play but as it stands now I think it is just pretty difficult to have it on a loadout when you have so many carapace enemies showing in batches on high difficulties

[pastel yew]

nothing worse

on god playing with trauma staff psyker

makes me want to explode

[tropic notch]

Much like vt2 I’m mostly melee focused and my ranged is used purely for specials

[pastel yew]

yeah exactly, that and stuff like the devils claw being so trash into it

I'm not sure if the recent buffs adjusted it but

I dont want to use a melee weapon that cant deal with carapace

[trim badger]

I love the fact that you can light attack ratlings and flamerats with melee on versus because they don't have armor there xddd

[pastel yew]

there was a glorious poiint in time where fury of the faithful rending applied to ranged attacks

[trim badger]

Very silly choice

[pastel yew]

so things like shotgun and laspistol were actually hyper meta for zealot

and then they nerfed it

like whyyy

[tropic notch]

I want mah melee to be well rounded

[untold mulch]

Why i go shovel constantly lately

5 crusher stack is just a pain if I don't have anything that can kill carapace easily

[tame lodge]

Run FT Plasma
Ping enemies that Arby's pinged and kill it with plasma

[halcyon sigil]

getting a game with the classic classes lineup feels so good now... with all the arbites games i was worried I was doing something wrong

[tame lodge]

If they ask

You are "helping"

[untold mulch]

True

I did a train mission with 2 arbites and only on Assail spam days I felt like this

[pastel yew]

there just arent many ranged weapons to deal with armor unfortunately

[untold mulch]

a cosntant "well, I guess I hit W only for the rest of the game I karking guess?"

[pastel yew]

especially not on a scale of like

oops all crushers

[untold mulch]

Give me hellgun FS

[pastel yew]

its less relevant on vet

but if you're playing zealot

genuinely what options do you have for ranged anti armor?

basically fuck and all

[past stratus]

I think dogs stop being annoying only in Auric+ and I think that is a problem. Leveling with my friend on the arbites patch as a non arbites player was the most boring, annoying experience.

[pastel yew]

so you just run one of the same 2 weapons on repeat

[halcyon sigil]

lasguns doing literally nothing feeling

[pastel yew]

if you use a melee without carapace

[tropic notch]

Wonder if you played wif my melee psyker

[pastel yew]

lasgun damage being shit into carapace is kinda strange though... dont those things actually have like

mad impact

[tropic notch]

he uses his melee and you have revolver and bolter

[pastel yew]

compared to ballistic weapons

[past stratus]

if you are a chill more casual player and you play damnation or something. Every game is a walking simulator as you watch the dogs clear every single threat in the map

[pastel yew]

exactly... but so many of the melee weapons are terrible into carapace so you just get hard forced into revolver bolter

[untold mulch]

Canonicalyl wise Lasguns struggle against carapace and above

But you know, autoguns even more, but game balance

[pastel yew]

its why I was so unhappy with the fury changes

because fury let you run other ranged weapons and then use your ability to kill carapace

[untold mulch]

Is stuff like Hotshotlasgun/hellgun that begins ignoring carapace

[pastel yew]

it was peak

[tropic notch]

Not at all

Fury give you rending

[tacit sonnet]

It also made flamer the best weapon at everything

[pastel yew]

on your first melee attack

[pastel yew]

acceptable loss

[tropic notch]

And he has a ton of crit

[pastel yew]

it made shotguns feel so fucking fun

[tacit sonnet]

Just stack 16 fire stacks, press F and literally every single enemy in the game dies

[pastel yew]

flamers never going to be a good thing to balance around though

its infinite cleave nonsense

you could also just make it not apply to dot effects or whatever

[pastel yew]

you're not killing a crusher horde with a devils claw with just fury

facing like 6+ crushers down

[tropic notch]

The heavy sword with buffs excluding duelist does 2147 on Cara and 2 or 3 more hits to kill

[pastel yew]

itll take you literally forever

[tacit sonnet]

Remember when autopistol was good

[tropic notch]

I used to lol

[pastel yew]

didnt it get rebuffed?

[tacit sonnet]

And you could like, triple your damage because of pinning fire

[pastel yew]

old pinning fire was so silly..

+100% damage

[tacit sonnet]

And then they nerfed it and autopistol has been shit ever since

[pastel yew]

tbf I used a bit of the autopistol recently on regular auric

it felt like

fine

its not good

[tacit sonnet]

And even after recent buff, it's still not very good

[pastel yew]

but its sorta fun

I wish it had a little bit of a larger mag

[tropic notch]

Dis the silliest thing ive heard all day

[pastel yew]

so you can really embody the run and gun

[pastel yew]

again

you take devils claw

[tropic notch]

Time for tac axe vet

[pastel yew]

what are you gonna do

[nimble wadi]

Why do you name all your games lantern builds “terrible”

[pastel yew]

I dont even think zealots have the bp for the one shot parry? though I might be wrong on that

[pseudo fiber]

I believe 50 flak damage with the mk1

[tropic notch]

It’s a crit weapon, and you’re using fury, you will make work of them

[pastel yew]

is it genuinely 50 damage ;-;

[safe raptor]

whats the dump stat for plasma? charge rate or thermal res? i only left click, and im too lazy to calculate if more thermal res gives me one more shot

[tropic notch]

[pastel yew]

the crits on carapace are still not that high with it

the ttk is intensely slow

[nimble wadi]

What does this mean

[pastel yew]

once you burn your fury charges at least

[tropic notch]

@tired egret

[pastel yew]

its something stupid

[pseudo fiber]

It was low but J don't think it was ever 50

[pastel yew]

check the guide

[tacit sonnet]

I was looking for that dude

[pastel yew]

or thta

[tacit sonnet]

I knew we had someone with perfect plasma stats in their name

[pastel yew]

though honestly "optimal plasma"

[distant plaza]

what's the combat difference between the combat axe and tac axe?
they kinda feel the same

[tropic notch]

It’s just something silly I do

[pastel yew]

is pointless

ma

[tacit sonnet]

tac axes are for cool people

[tropic notch]

I need to check if they are up to date

[pastel yew]

maybe itll be less pointless post nerf but rn it makes so little difference its so stacked anyway

[nimble wadi]

I’m gonna call you Silly Sally

[tacit sonnet]

That's about all the differences

[pastel yew]

also the changes are likely to make its ideal stats different

[past stratus]

I do not like the Tac Axe, I like the Combat axe, thats the difference

[tropic notch]

[pastel yew]

I dont wanna develop rsi

I'm good

their moveset is also pretty boring

[nimble wadi]

What is rsi

[pastel yew]

repetitive strain injury

[tacit sonnet]

I just hold a button and a mod attacks for me

[tame lodge]

Combat Axes are really really powerful
Tactical Axes are dogshit

They are not the same

[tacit sonnet]

WRONG

[pastel yew]

are they? people seem to glaze the tac axes

[tacit sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-detector-lier-trending-gif-6708574292361340617

[tropic notch]

Both are good caxe is amazing taxe is also amazing can’t go wrong

[tacit sonnet]

both caxes and taxes are good

[tame lodge]

Yes
Hype moments and aura

[pastel yew]

lol

extremely valid

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/mustard-cheese-gif-21912643

[tame lodge]

Fucking 3 cleave weapon

[tacit sonnet]

4*

[tame lodge]

With a 3 targets cap

[tropic notch]

Bm

[tacit sonnet]

caxe also has 4

[safe raptor]

i'm just grinding "meta" builds for havoc so i have the mastery for them unlocked but recon lasgun with infernus and headhunter absolutely shreds anything so far. it's just a fallback plan in case i struggle too much and i'd rather be it hella optimized

[tacit sonnet]

Because of brutal momentum

Both of them have 4 cleave

[tame lodge]

Worst user of BM

[pastel yew]

the truth is though

most meta weapon stats

are like

barely better than slightly worse

[tame lodge]

And that's saying a lot when Paul exists

[pastel yew]

its a really tiny part of the total power of your build+play

I can get wanting it but

[pseudo fiber]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1027699335632269379/1337892860741161153/1027716679817502781.webp

[pastel yew]

you're gonna be spending a load of resources to get this specific plasmagun

better to just spend those resources on other weapons to have more variety

playing more = bigger power boosts... more weapons = playing more is fun as you arent just doing the same shit

[tame lodge]

With Combat Axe you just walk up to someone and kill it

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/silence-paul-atreid-dune-gif-7542119916506846672

[tacit sonnet]

btw, how much are you spending per weapon with a correct 60% dump?

[lapis osprey]

So whats the conclusion to this? do i take only health curios for H40 as vet?

[tame lodge]

You know I'm right

[pastel yew]

depends really

its all rng

[tame lodge]

You can't truly deny it

[tacit sonnet]

It always seems like a rather cheap thing to get, I feel like I spend 200k on average

[pastel yew]

depends

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/tole-tole-cat-cat-vro-cat-gif-17161343143756375842

[pastel yew]

if you're going to die

[tame lodge]

You want to say it's false

[pastel yew]

like

its guaranteed you're going down twice

the wound curio is better

[tame lodge]

But we both know I'm right

[pastel yew]

I would say planning for that is a bad move generally though

[tropic notch]

It’s good JUST BECAUSE OK?

[pastel yew]

also if you're guaranteed to need the wound curio, probably should practice more before playing hav 40

[lapis osprey]

yeah i basically get 1 hit by anything so that extra curio will help in 40

[tropic notch]

On zealot and psyker I’d disagree

And Arby

[safe raptor]

ehh if i buy a high power weapon from the vendor its aight, and i usually get the correct stat dump weapon with like 100k worth of gold when using armory. as a new player only the diamantine or whatever its called is a struggle, even more so than red dust in vermintide i'd say

[lapis osprey]

the other day i got 1 hit by 2 bulwarks bashing at the same time :c

[pastel yew]

I got given 20k diamantine recently

[past stratus]

you know, I don't like axes in general, thematically I don't think they are cool. But the Combat axe is very easy to learn, overall pretty good weapon. I enjoyed my time with it.

[tacit sonnet]

Remember when plasteel was always in demand

[pastel yew]

idek where from

[tacit sonnet]

And you never had enough

[pastel yew]

it just appeared

[past stratus]

I hate the tac axe though

[tacit sonnet]

And diamantine was completely useless

[safe raptor]

4k from event but i spend it in liek a day lol

[tacit sonnet]

I haven't run out of materials for a very long time

I don't even look at material costs

Why is suddenly diamantine more in demand

It was always plasteel before

What changed

[pastel yew]

I think the crafting update

changed some of the costs aroun

d

[tacit sonnet]

What do you spend diamantine on

[pastel yew]

also potentially stat buffs for weapons

for getting them to the max

as before you just spent pennies to buy an outright perfect stat weapon

and then mostly plasteel to get it up

now you find one thats dogshit but has good caps and boost it... I +think+ thats it at least

[tacit sonnet]

The only thing I still sometimes run out of is money and even that is not a problem. I slapped +30% ordo dockets on curios and got like a million in 15 missions

[pastel yew]

+30% dockets has always been sleeper broken

[tacit sonnet]

It is

[pastel yew]

its literally the only thing you can equip

that makes your life easier after the game

its a no brainer best in slot

[tacit sonnet]

It's insane how good it is for money farming

[past stratus]

Diamantine is the bottle neck for new players, it is how you upgrade weapons. But I think a lot of the people that play the game regurlaly don't have a reason to use them anymore

[tacit sonnet]

I still buy weapons regularly

Whether it's a new weapon for arby, a better dump stat or just another copy so I don't have to switch marks

Most of the time it's just another copy so I don't have to switch marks

[safe raptor]

yeah regular players dont have that problem, at some point you have everything you need and i've seen people stack like 80k

[tacit sonnet]

I have like 5 force swords

[safe raptor]

i started last week so

[tacit sonnet]

yea, I honestly have no idea what is plasteel or diamantine used for exactly

I just use it

[past stratus]

yeah I started draining my diamantine lately because I've been leveling all the weapons I ignored this whole time

[tacit sonnet]

The only thing I run out of sometimes is money

[past stratus]

the main diamantine drain is raising your weapon's level

[lapis osprey]

Is there anyway to NOT get 1 from crusher overhead as vet in havoc high lvls

and yes i've tried dodging

[tacit sonnet]

yes, have at least 1 gold toughness

as long as you have piss toughness, you can't take health damage

[past stratus]

yeah I think you can survive it with gold toughness but it also depends on the thingy that the map has

different effects and shit

[tacit sonnet]

I think

I don't play vet, correct me if I'm wrong

[lapis osprey]

i've died from the crusher slam with full health and toughness(2 toughness curio)

[tacit sonnet]

did you have gold toughness

[lapis osprey]

nah, but i cant always keep gold toughness up

[tacit sonnet]

You can

Just kill more specials

[past stratus]

:^)

[tacit sonnet]

Or, an easier variant

Just dodge

I don't know when was the last time I got hit by a crusher overhead I could see or hear

Most of the time I get hit by overheads it's silent crushers sneaking up from behind with 0 indicators

It's one of the easiest attacks to dodge

[lapis osprey]

im doing a double barrel build ;')

[lapis osprey]

this shit happens all the time in h40

[past stratus]

this is a channel of god gamers, no one ever gets hit by anything and everyone always hits headshots in every shot

[safe raptor]

btw, damage resistance is multiplicative, correct?

two 20% gunner res isn't worth it i assume?

[pastel yew]

tru

isnt the fun of darktide that eternal persuit to get better though

clear higher difficulties

take less damage