veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

i actually really like the free stims idea because it encourages people to actually start learning to use them

[dry cloak]

all 3 of iags have some audience. most people choose between between agrippina (heavy) or vraks mk5

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/gamba-xqc-gambling-addict-777-gif-25803752

[tall torrent]

Did u read the whole thing

[faint beacon]

Oh yeah I saw

I just think it’s fucking hilarious I’m passively gambling with that rework basically LMAO

[untold mulch]

Not even gambling

The poor vet is ODing

20 stimms or so

Straight to the vein

[bitter turtle]

people have elixir syndrome with stimms right now

always holding it for the perfect moment that never comes

[tall torrent]

Did u read the whole thing yet

[bitter turtle]

yeah i did

[steep flower]

Where is the thing?

[past stratus]

Also I have feelings about the middle talent first tier in Vet because the class is currently weak as shit so taxing my own talents so I can buff my allies feels like pouring salt into the wound. Maybe it is petty of me thinking like that but that's how I feel.

[steep flower]

I wanna read 2

[tall torrent]

@steep flower

[bitter turtle]

im not sure how i feel about spoils of war just because i like havoc's ammo economy and it feels rather meaningless in non-havoc

[tall torrent]

It’s meant to offset if survivalist worked for veteran only

But it prob won’t ever get accepted

The rest however are kinda free game

Numbers can be adjusted

[tame meadow]

do you guys think scavenger should give more ammo or something only to the vet maybe the double or something

[tame lodge]

2% ammo

[steep flower]

Once i come home i will read; apparently phone refuses to open the file

[faint beacon]

Tbf they’ve clearly balanced Ogryn and Arby around Havoc

They’d most likely accept it as much as I don’t want the game to be

[bitter turtle]

maybe controversially i don't find vet weak in havoc

but

[tame lodge]

Hot take indeed

[faint beacon]

It’s the weakest class in havoc but it still works and doesn’t mean it can’t be played or used

[untold mulch]

Prebeta I swear it was higher or smth?

[faint beacon]

I’ve cleared 40 multiple times with Vet you just notice you put a lot more work in

[pseudo fiber]

The stigma isn't there yet

[past stratus]

I think every class can go to havoc currently but some require way more effort from the players than others. Is the core issue here.

[faint beacon]

What the “it can’t be played” part

Even though Ogryn pre rework had the highest havoc clear lmao

[tame meadow]

it had no cd

[pseudo fiber]

"Ogryn Vet is useless in havoc don't accept Ogryn vet players"

[bitter turtle]

i dont think that will ever happen just because free ammo

[steep flower]

I personally don’t feel like it no joke

[faint beacon]

Oh yeah give it a bit

[bitter turtle]

i very much notice my inability to shoot things all day when playing arby in havoc

[faint beacon]

Might be midway through the season

[heavy rover]

When I'm a vet in havoc I've pretty much assumed the role of anti range/gunner/specialist

Especially with helbore

[steep flower]

Lets be serious; vet situation is also due to the fact that ppl dunno how to build vet proper… or lack basic knowledge & awareness

[cloud thunder]

Vet’s a good pick still especially for the ammo perk. But vet and zealot getting reworked anyways so I’m sure they’ll tune it more to be closer to ogryn/arbites level

[past stratus]

in most games as a Vet I assume the role of yellow toughness generator

[halcyon sigil]

i mean yeah? thats the point, it means precision weapons in the hands of a vet can do more than in the hands of a zealot or psyker, weapons that require skill to land weakspot hits tend to be somewhat swingy in how effective they are

the way i see it, these precision focused guns are often already oneshot headshotting or are considered unattractive like the infantry las because they just dont quite manage, all this does is give another more reliable factor to hit those breakpoints that gives vet a definitive ranged edge over other classes using the same gun and some room to try other things with the weapons blessings that otherwise get sidelined in pursuit of the breakpoint

you keep saying its bad because salvo means its not constant, and then you keep saying its OP because there are guns that can pace themselves around salvos, when i said from the start you can balance the mechanic by adjusting the salvo timer for each gun individually like im pretty sure they already do (its a somewhat opaque weapon stat)

just trying to figure out what exactly your issue with it is?

[pseudo fiber]

Nah Zealot rework

That'd knock that shit into overdrive

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/jon-arbuckle-nermal-trash-can-the-garfield-show-gif-9365086984229579073

[steep flower]

Arby right now is oversaturated with newer players and despite how powerful he is they suck massive shlong in havoc; i should be saying that arby is bad then ye?

[cloud thunder]

Survivalist is useful especially in havocs if you got an arby squad

[faint beacon]

Me looking at vet in my player select and choosing Arby

[untold mulch]

nah, taht was pretty much the entire game until recently

Pre-beta days I remember that maybe the Auras stacked or smth? I remember a time where the ammo was not a concern

[heavy rover]

I tell my team that I don't need ammo pick ups and I swear it's like a sleeper code activation phrase. They'll go around taking every piece of ammo like gremlins

[untold mulch]

You need to tell your team for them to do that?

[tame meadow]

I remember the shredder auto pistol stance build, it was insanely tanky just shooting all the time and i mean it ALL THE TIME ammo coming in as you just destroy the map

[untold mulch]

My usual quickplay already know I dont need pick ups then

[heavy rover]

Fair they'll do it anyway

Another win for the helbore

[past stratus]

I've been leveling Ogryn with my friend that has been leveling Arby, and when you hit Damnation you get a pretty clear notion of how much the class carries people. There are some insanely bad plays that people do while playing arbites, it's like they never learned the basic concepts and mechanics of the game

[untold mulch]

I am gonna do rn a helbore build

[steep flower]

Me 2; was dumb

[bitter turtle]

@tall torrent wait did you make underhand grenades break stealth

noooo

[cloud thunder]

You can tell who has numeric UI and who doesn’t

[heavy rover]

I will spread the gospel of the helbore

[tame meadow]

it was fun though to try

[untold mulch]

The average Arbites I find on game has 0 situational awareness

[bitter turtle]

or wait is quickthrowing just a normal throw

[tame meadow]

they don't need it cause dog

[past stratus]

most of the time they don't have to

[trim badger]

Only true because of how disasterous other players were with the conventional classes 8)

[atomic void]

The average Arbites I find on game has 0 situational awareness

[heavy rover]

Who needs situational awareness when you are DA LEGS

[untold mulch]

I slip once because audio cue fucks off and I isntantly eat dirt

[normal bay]

I would say it's one of the more complex classes to build. Lot's of little nodes that can make a difference between builds

Psyker is figured out

Zealot has "The Build"

Ogryn and Arby can be put together by an ape and do well

[heavy rover]

Real, one time my audio cut off right next to a poxburster. Good thing I saw it in time

[steep flower]

Put some nails on ya shoes

[normal bay]

This was meant to be a reply, thank you discord

[faint beacon]

because their dog fills in the lack of it so they dont ever learn it

[serene bough]

ilas could use a lot of QoL buffs (less recoil, less egregious muzzle flash on crits, better damage profile so it doesnt requrie crits to land breakpoints consistently)

[faint beacon]

Like I swear thats one of my biggest gripes with that class is, it teaches you can get away with bad habits

[cloud thunder]

BUT put it in the hands of a player with situational awareness? Broken.

[faint beacon]

and its going to be a rude wake up call

[untold mulch]

Half of my audio cues fucks off consistenytl

Bursters only exist by the audio system in my rig when they are midjump

[serene bough]

but in general ilas is less easy to use than the recon and doesnt have armor pen like the helbore so its going to underperform in havoc difficulties

[faint beacon]

for those decide to try a new class

[steep flower]

Even vet can be

[tall torrent]

This design you have is much better suited to be an exclusive blessing for the gun u want it on (inf las) because as a talent, it’s either wildly overpowered in 2 niche cases (helbore and revolver) where it completely defeats the existing balance for these weapons, or wildly underpowered for some other precision breakpoint weapons (plasma, boltgun, boltpistol)

I think there’re much better & more nuanced ways to make ranged weapons specifically stand out for veteran than to make a talent that’s as polarizing as this

[serene bough]

since there's a huge emphasis on armored elites and boss DPS in the current havoc meta

[cloud thunder]

I was just responding to the arby comment

[halcyon sigil]

i use it, i know, this was less about fixing the Ilas and more giving vet a way to distinguish their use of weapons shared with other classes

[tall torrent]

No, it already is a thing

[heavy rover]

Okay I thought I was going crazy with stealth maulers and crushers, glad it's not just me having audio cues not sounding off

[cloud thunder]

I still push hounds despite having dog. Habit

[bitter turtle]

also im not sure how i feel about most of the >50% or <50% staminan effects

[atomic void]

me with zealot unironically
why learn proper postioning and proper ways to deal with ranged units or dodge sliding? i can just fotf every 15 seconds and dash to them lol xdddd
But yeah i think the newer trees will teach people bad habits if they crutch on them, but also arbi has multiple talents that basically encourage you to dodge block and push so maybe this will drill good offense habits into players

[cloud thunder]

Last I checked, it didn’t break stealth.

[bitter turtle]

like for killzone, i wonder why it even changes from damage to crit depending on your stamina

or whether people would even bother manipulating it

[serene bough]

well before vet they gotta make semi automatic weapons more rewarding than automatic weapons

[bitter turtle]

just a weird condition to me

[serene bough]

helbore buffs are a good example of that

but if were looking at softer elites most people are going to realize recon will be better than ilas for many situations

[past stratus]

I don't like Kill Zone, it looks good on paper but in actual play that shit barely procs because I'm constantly being target of attacks

[serene bough]

i feel the best way to change MMF without overhauling it too much would to have it apply rending on stack but only be used for semiautos/burst fires, then having a keystone node that alters the ability to have a chance of ammo not being consumed based on stacks but apply no rending for automatic weapons

[heavy rover]

Before the helbore update I swapped off from recon las to infantry las because of Ghost

[bitter turtle]

i meant the hypothetical adjusted one

in that doc

[past stratus]

It's like Catch a breath, the only reason I even pick it up is because the other talent is somehow even more dogshit

[serene bough]

ilas w/ ghost was great for havoc before they made the emphasis on elites and armor clusters

back when gunners were priority threat

nowadays i find it hard to justify taking

[heavy rover]

Yeah, that change had me struggling last havoc season

But then helbore addressed that entirely

[grand perch]

late to the party but take deadshot with stamina regen talent on FT

[steep flower]

Keep your distance then

[grand perch]

fantastic build

[trim badger]

Clearly the new chaos wastes gamemode (if they make one) should completely strip a character from any ability/ult and they only win it along the way

Imagine pure randomness...

[serene bough]

strength of the ilas was its reliable enough breakpoints paired with ammo efficiency

but currently helbore doesnt have ammo efficiency problems bc surgical and shock

and recon is efficient enough in the ammo department while being significantly easier and more powerful to use

[tall torrent]

Underhand krak sticking does
Other grenades don’t

[past stratus]

Truue, fatshark please gimme a corner in every segment of every map where I can just sit and snipe things pls and thx

[faint beacon]

its good just dont actually get struck by melee

and then you're going to benefit from it

[tall torrent]

Look at deadshot in there

[atomic void]

that sounds fun af
i always hear about how chaos wastes is peak in vt2 so id love a similar version

[normal bay]

I'll give it a go. Do you think it still needs the three stam curios from your build?

[bitter turtle]

maybe im misreading but isnt it more or less the same thing minus the continuous drain for adsing

[trim badger]

It is peak in VT2 yeah, My most played gamemode nowadays after versus

But the thing is

How they would handle initial gear

[grand perch]

helps a lot for sure but in theory you can skip em

if you keep triggering ft stamina regen

[past stratus]

Sadly I'm not good enough to do this consistently every single game. I even have the funny penance of not getting hit but I lack the skill to do that every game 😭 it's skill issue

[tall torrent]

It scales fire rate way more than it currently does, so if you have a weapon that can shoot fast enough, u can manipulate it to get either more crit chance or more damage, lets say a laspistol

[bitter turtle]

i understand its possible to manipulate but i meant more, will it matter in most cases, or will you just take your free buff, whatever it ends up being?

rather than micromanage your stamina to make sure it's always a specific one

[tall torrent]

It can be both
I honestly wanted smth that was just passively there and didn’t need you to micromanage to get the best value out of it

[bitter turtle]

i see

[tall torrent]

Because both effects are good enough

[bitter turtle]

that's kind of how i felt looking at it

that i'd just pick it and just take whatever i get at the moment since both buffs are already good

[tall torrent]

Its not quite the same thing as CaB where it was very specifically made to be one mode or the other depending on ur combat scenario

[bitter turtle]

that's why i wondered if the condition even should be what it is

since it's just not going to be something you think about usually

versus say, get x buff when hipfiring, get y buff when adsing or something like that

[tall torrent]

as for the "micro managing" aspect, I gave WS a subnode that gives 50% stam

[long dove]

how close is a "close kill"?

[tall torrent]

so there is a way to minmax it but most of the time not warranted

[tall torrent]

within 12.5m of player

[long dove]

ty, I have speedload on my autogun so was just asking

[untold mulch]

I love poxburster spam missions where you at best hear a single one

out of 6

[tall torrent]

Damn aqua been typing for 27 minutes straight

I wonder what he has to say

[halcyon sigil]

i feel kinda bad, im too used to writing paragraphs

[tall torrent]

It’s ok

[halcyon sigil]

certified yapper

[tall torrent]

I appreciate ur effort to try to come up with these designs

I still think that specific design is not easily executable tho
Cuz I don’t think there’s an override yet for an attack that already went off to become crit

And yea it has polarizing problems if it was implemented

[halcyon sigil]

so just to be clear, the weapon keystone proposals were not supposed to be applicable to all weapons in the vets arsenal. the whole point of it being 1 of 3 keystones is they are options to tailor your build to synergise with your weapons strengths (or cover weaknesses)

if there was just one objectively superior keystone for all guns regardless of what its strengths are you end up with the same issue you have with survivalist where every build bends over backwards to pick it

at best I tried to make sure at least two could be considered viable for any one gun and considering how general the extended magazine one is I think that remains true

In the revolvers case its a gun that already hits most of its breakpoints so idk if the interaction with the keystone results in any better results besides overkill? sure you could double down to try and do stupid boss damage but it also unlocks room for people to try blessings outside of the usual crit focused blessings they used to have to take to hit those breakpoints - it has quite a few interesting blessings that would be nice to have room to play with while the current breakpoint build blessings still have use for other classes

Helbore is the only one I did overlook when conceptualizing, mainly because im not sure how the charge up mechanic interacts with salvos, and it does have some rather potent crit based blessings, but as a vet exclusive weapon theres more that can be considered to tailor it for vet tree balance and compatibility... which it will probably need regardless of how the tree is redesigned

[pseudo fiber]

Ideas are good and its also good to discuss ideas

[past stratus]

I honestly think that a touch of generosity would fix a lot of Veteran's issues. Just looking at the existing talents and questioning why they have downsides or why they are so weak. Just a general buff

[long dove]

yup and you explode with them

[tall torrent]

I think u could make smth like +50/60/70/80% crit chance to salvo first shot as a blessing, and put it on the few guns where it doesn’t immediately fuck up the existing balance around it

[untold mulch]

Love the ones with weaknesses

Like, talent points are free or smth

[long dove]

doesnt the salvoes with Helbore just repeat after ther 4th shot?

[crude wind]

All things in time friends. All things in time.

[untold mulch]

Fatshark time yeah

[tall torrent]

Yea we getting that vet rework in 2035

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-gif-5430850758035663288

[untold mulch]

I am reinstalling spidey sense mod so I can have any clue of the game when the audio engine fucks up

[crude wind]

Lol XD

[halcyon sigil]

to an extent my aim is to promote build variety, and part of that was trying to create conditions to make more than 2-3 blessings be considered definitively optimal for a weapon build rather than suggest a new blessing that just replaces one as the auto take choice

[past stratus]

The weakness would be cool if other classes had the same design. But it seems like it is mostly just veteran that always has to balance a good thing with a bad thing. It just feels bad

[long dove]

I sometimes play with no headset so I can't hear a thing period. Why I do this is cause Im a masochist. Nah real answer I dont want that damn dent in my hair before I go to work

[untold mulch]

Imperial Guard design

Getting karked all day

[long dove]

and still getting the job done

[untold mulch]

THE GUARD GETS IT DONE

Hearing that line when playing with my other friend both Vets is just instant

[untold mulch]

Go proudly with the hair dent 🗿

[halcyon sigil]

honestly i feel this, theres a stark difference between the redesigned trees and the ones before in how builds are put together, tax nodes arent really a thing in the new trees because the few places they 'exist' they arent a tax just a really useful bonus

[long dove]

lol

[untold mulch]

Arbiters were here on behalf of the tithe right?

[bitter turtle]

pathing is much easier on newer trees

im ngl

[untold mulch]

So they are forcing us to pay the taxes

I say Arbiters are the real enemy

[bitter turtle]

i like having tradeoffs if you want to switch pathing

but

[tall torrent]

That’s such a patch13 way of balance

[halcyon sigil]

like you can call any node a tax node if you dislike it enough, but the real tax for vet is having to move sideways across the tree to pick a different perk on the same row

[tall torrent]

And doesn’t fit newer design

[bitter turtle]

im in the minority of that i think given how well received arby and ogryn trees are made

yeah i know

[long dove]

the real buff needs to be giving the autogun a few more rounds in the mag since 58 feels really odd to have

[untold mulch]

life is pain and agony

what I do for Infiltrate

[long dove]

oof

[past stratus]

I don't dislike the way Veteran works in general, I just think that being much weaker than other classes is becoming something that just disrupts the fun I have playing the class I like.

[tall torrent]

One big thing I dislike about vet tree is if u take frag + survivalist u pretty much irreparably deny a huge chunk of damage by not having 10% melee damage and agile engagement

[bitter turtle]

that's the funny thing

[tall torrent]

Which u have no chance of recovering regardless of how much u spec into bottom right

[bitter turtle]

i like that

lol

[past stratus]

and it only became really bad with Arbites tbf

[bitter turtle]

they're such strong nodes it feels like a real choice

that or gimp something later on so you can have both

[halcyon sigil]

no i agree i do like builds that have to trade pros for cons, but the new trees definitely more build a bear and its probably better for all the trees to be redesigned to be on the same page so the rest of the game can be balanced around it

[tall torrent]

It would have been fine if the design philosophy didn’t change so much

[bitter turtle]

yeah i know

[untold mulch]

Honestly my main and utter complain is that we are reaching 3 years and still no sight of the fucking hellgun

[tall torrent]

But it’s changed a lot

[untold mulch]

Like man

I need a heavy lasgun

[bitter turtle]

the newer trees are just take whatever you like

[untold mulch]

Like water

[long dove]

Honestly Vet should have built in Survivalist because we all know a real guardsman would be snatching up every piece of ammo they can find on the battlefield.

[tall torrent]

At this point I’d much rather survivalist be made baseline kit and left side being given real good nodes to compete vs agile engagement

[untold mulch]

If its not bolted down, and the techpriest is not looking

Is yours

[tall torrent]

And also make survivalist only work for veteran, with a shorter internal cooldown

I wrote 3s in my design

Even 2s is fine tbh

[halcyon sigil]

as an aura its badly balanced because it used to be our passive class trait, now we only get using cover for free... except things move too fast and theres too much melee to really use it

[long dove]

Hell, distract the priest, I have a socket wrench and a dream.

[untold mulch]

a visionary among us

[untold mulch]

and really, side hopping awkwardly is good enough to avoid most gunfire

[past stratus]

I just want to shoot things and see them die, instead of trying to shoot things and the AI dog kills it before I do. Or even worse, shoot things don't kill it because lol no damage then the dog kills it. That kills my vibe

[tall torrent]

Arb tree design is really good even tho there’re still some pretty clear winners in there

[long dove]

I had a joke for this but the Commissar is looking at me with side eye and his hand is hovering his bolt pistol.

[bitter turtle]

the arb tree is good given the way they design trees now

[untold mulch]

I just did a matchw ith Lucius lasgun

Not my thing, but it was constant the dog taking my target down before my charge was ready

[bitter turtle]

there's a lot of options to take that are valid

just

[untold mulch]

you talking like Commisars not have their hands hovering the bolt pistol 24/7

[bitter turtle]

my personal preference is just the older design where there's significant tradeoffs

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238767814446415904/1389895297903362089/Screenshot_20250702_050725.png?ex=6866485e&is=6864f6de&hm=c91cfb4ab339f894563fb89794d312669d0656c67682f1535ecb825b8c26ba7d&

This part of arb tree is unbelievably stacked

[halcyon sigil]

yup, and then toughness gives you a nice bubble for mistakes, and i run ghost on my lasgun that means so long as im hitting weakspots in immune to ranged attacks entirely!

[long dove]

Yes and someone stole his recaff this morning.

[tall torrent]

And EO is by far the strongest keystone on arb

The rest are decently balanced tho

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/hrt-horse-race-horse-cyan-cyan-throwing-gif-17058391561996213012

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[untold mulch]

that poor bastard is gonna wish they were dead

[bitter turtle]

i run EO on every arb build

[past stratus]

yeah, thats why I stopped playing with the Helbore even if it was my main gun for a long time. Picking targets that will give me value is impossible with the super sonic dogs around.

[bitter turtle]

terminus is the only one that's kinda eeeeh to me though

not sure how i feel about bad weapon specialist

[long dove]

Right? sips recaff

[past stratus]

it doesn't feel good to shoot walls because the dog took down my target in the 0.5 seconds it took me to charge my shot

[tall torrent]

Terminus is a marksman’s focus tier keystone

It’s actually abysmal once u understand how it works

[bitter turtle]

yeah

loses stacks per hit

so

[halcyon sigil]

being an anti specialist specialist in a lobby full of dogs really makes you question your existance

[bitter turtle]

swing once into a crowd

goodbye melee stacks

[long dove]

yuuup.

[bitter turtle]

[tall torrent]

I hit 18 guys with one melee attack and drop 18 stacks 💀

[scenic basin]

How does Crucian Roulette interact Always Prepared Keystone modifier? (the one that resotres ammo to the clip)

[untold mulch]

Luckily I use recon so I hipfire like crazy

average arbiter is braindead

[tall torrent]

I’m almost convinced someone miscoded it as hit where it should have been attack

[past stratus]

yeah thats why I'm doing a full weapon Spec build where I spend most of my time in melee and only use instant guns like pistols/revolvers

[tall torrent]

Cuz if u get 20 smth buffed attacks that’s actually cool

But no u swing 3 times at horde and then have to shoot horde again

Abhorrent design

[halcyon sigil]

weapon specialist is nice as a general melee engagement boost, otherwise its main strenght for me is actually its free 33% magazine refill with always prepared to make sure i never have executioners stance with an empty mag lmao

nothing worse than highlighting a bunch of enemies you cant shoot, only for them to all be gone by the time youve reloaded

[tall torrent]

They fixed the bleed dog node by making it more bugged than it used to be 💀

[long dove]

weapon spec feels nice when I use a shotty

[tall torrent]

Arb is actually so insanely buggy

[long dove]

few whacks followed by a few blams

[tall torrent]

On launch, lone wolf was so bugged where if u swapped from a dog-having loadout to lone wolf you immediately crash your game

Then when u load back in, you delete the lone wolf class, you crash again

Then u load back in, click on your original loadout, and it crashes again

Then u load back in and remake your build from scratch

[tame lodge]

AoE Bloodletter

[halcyon sigil]

guess you could say hes a qualified rules lawyer

[tame lodge]

[tall torrent]

I know this because I experienced it to the fullest

[past stratus]

you run around with a good cleave weapon, killing hordes. If a dangerous elite shows up in front of you, whip out a Bolter Pistol, hip fire crit and one shot it. That's the only way I can always get value on Vet these days.

[halcyon sigil]

if it makes you feel better, i have shredder grenade to survivalist... and then a long line all the way across to grab agile engagement (used to grab serrated blade)

[atomic void]

the best thing is everything feels viable and pathing isnt punishing even if there's stuff that are clear winners (concussive)

i like that

[halcyon sigil]

the +10% melee damage isnt a bad node as far as 'tax' nodes go tbf

[atomic void]

ive seen some say its too forgiving but ill take it

[untold mulch]

Doesn't make me feel better, but we share misery

[atomic void]

i like horsing around with talents and making funky builds
literally what is the point of 90 talents ina tree if everything is gonna be strict and taxed to death

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238767814446415904/1389895297903362089/Screenshot_20250702_050725.png?ex=6866485e&is=6864f6de&hm=c91cfb4ab339f894563fb89794d312669d0656c67682f1535ecb825b8c26ba7d&

not taking this part is almost akin to trolling

[chrome pasture]

How come heretics get hellguns and we don't :(

[atomic void]

ah the 15%+ section

my beloved

[long dove]

Volley guns?

[untold mulch]

Hadron hates lasguns I swear

[untold mulch]

I so fucking wish

[halcyon sigil]

gifts from their gods, the emperor would give us one if we werent serving penance

[chrome pasture]

people want a skitarii class I just want my hotshot kantrael lasgun >:(

TEMPESTUS SCION CLASS PLEASE

[past stratus]

we didn't get the necessary paper work and bureaucracy to get hell guns yet 😭

[long dove]

No I meant I thought those were volley guns

[tall torrent]

Scion is almost definitely not gonna be a new class

[untold mulch]

Pretty sure they are, but the lore of Hellgun/Hotshot is a damn mess

[untold mulch]

Yeah, feels like a variation of Vet

[atomic void]

scions are just under the vet umbrella

[untold mulch]

But Arbiter already murked the waters

so who knows

[chrome pasture]

there's a lot of opportunity here

Kasrkins
Baseline Tempestus Scions
Harakoni Warhawks
Death Korps of Krieg Grenadiers

[atomic void]

i mean arbies dont belong to any pre existing archtype

[tall torrent]

There’s like
No actual gear difference between elite guardsmen and scion lol

[halcyon sigil]

ngl if we're talking new classes id love to see a combat servitor... ogryn sized with a choice of things like multi-las or lascannons strapped to what was their arm

[tall torrent]

Arb at least actually use diff gear from veteran

[atomic void]

those are all just vets tho

[chrome pasture]

skitarii just get

Musket.
slightly weaker plasma guns

[untold mulch]

Yeah, Scion is basically a very specific variation of just an elite guardsman

[chrome pasture]

but ngl stormtrooper subclass would be lit

they can turn it to a subclass

[untold mulch]

Maybe as an alternative Vet tree

[chrome pasture]

Let me become a Kasrkin, fatshark

[tame lodge]

Good enough
Welcome back fallout 4 laser musket

[untold mulch]

like you press a button and is a second tree or more lines, and you get a few dialogue on it but still is the Vet VA

[tall torrent]

Shell out 15 bucks when the armor comes back and u can

[chrome pasture]

man skitarii are barely even present

unless its a damn forgeworld

[halcyon sigil]

i mean that is their purpose

[untold mulch]

I still can't get over the fact of how ugly the Scion armor was

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984525651904176209/1387094900029390868/Veteran_Kasrkin_2.png?ex=6865fb8b&is=6864aa0b&hm=0cc37fd0732fa3425f71d965c83723f87d5056a68ad63d6424d84c3593ff96a3&

[chrome pasture]

even so, the excuse of Hadron being in the ship doesn't give the excuse of a Skitarii presence

it's likely just combat servitors

[tame lodge]

Atoma is industrial
Close enough

[tall torrent]

Kasrkin heavy armor is real tho

Pretty good

[tame lodge]

Bring the red robes

[chrome pasture]

Skitarii are often present when a Magos is around

[untold mulch]

Yeah, but the Scion chestplate is a crime

[past stratus]

I think Hadron is high ranking enough to request some Skitarii right? She is a Technoarcheologist working for the Inquisition

[topaz lance]

I think they should nerf vet. Survivalist should give all other team members -25% ammo.

[chrome pasture]

ehhh mostly just either Scions or Combat servitors

[atomic void]

a lot of the armor sets do not work in this game cause they slap them on skinny ass people

[tall torrent]

If u do the campaign with existing character u can get some really funny cutscenes

[untold mulch]

Is not like is 40k

If they want a class, they can justify a lore reason why suddenly a "few" skitarii are running around

[chrome pasture]

even then I'd take servitors over skitarii

space musket or a literal Heavy bolter

[bitter turtle]

i did the campaign

[heavy rover]

I wish that carapace torso went back into rotation

[untold mulch]

[bitter turtle]

that was not worth the time it took to re-unlock everything

[halcyon sigil]

if theyd cut out most of the supply regen perks they could maybe make the ammo pick up system relevantly balanced lol

[past stratus]

maybe if down the line we find evidence of some really nice artifact in Tertium, the forgeworlds will be willing to send in more help to her

[untold mulch]

Is definitely better paced than OG

But the OG one was literally an intern work last week of dev

Beyond lazy

[bitter turtle]

og was not a campaign

[chrome pasture]

even then it would mean a Magos is interested

[atomic void]

also the materials looking iffy
i think the textures on the skins in the current rotaion are peak
similar with vestoryan or whatever u call them

[untold mulch]

"I dont trust you" 🗿

[bitter turtle]

og was a random series of cutscenes where you get berated

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1385180267148476466/1389558002343874580/Screenshot_20250623_063145.png?ex=68665fbc&is=68650e3c&hm=e8468ca636f6a83874626607905d5cfbbca21b92294d167d91488217170f0275&

zola looking at a cadian wearing full kasrkin heavy armor and says “man idk if ur good enough for this”

[atomic void]

u can tell the difference in quality

[chrome pasture]

what's in tertium rn is just a Frigate from the Inquisition

[halcyon sigil]

cant wait to see skitarrii loitering off the playable map guarding that importiant thing while we get sent in to do the hard work!

[atomic void]

i did the campaign as arbite, did they actually keep the "you're not good enough" shit?

[bitter turtle]

it was the same for me but with the krieg stuff

krieg voicepack when

[untold mulch]

Yeah, now there is an actual progression of treatment, So I am glad of it

[atomic void]

campaign as arbite is funny
u get 0 cutscenes related to your character lmaooo

[chrome pasture]

if the mechanicus are interested then all hell breaks lose when a literal Arc Mechanicus ship just appears

[untold mulch]

Only in the first campaigns missions I believe.

as you close to the final ones, they drop it

[past stratus]

I honestly don't know what is the most likely class to come after Arbites, Arbites themselves was a curve ball for me

[untold mulch]

No fucking way they lazied on that

[chrome pasture]

SCIONS P L E A S E

[atomic void]

u get the nice intro when they come to take over and that's it

[tall torrent]

Yea a lot of the older levelling cutscenes are in the campaign

Picture: hadron telling a fully geared kasrkin wielding an archeotech lasgun to go off themselves

[atomic void]

should have deleted them entirely

it was always bad

[chrome pasture]

or yknow

[untold mulch]

🤦‍♂️ so fucking lazy

[grand perch]

the absolute state of arbites names

[chrome pasture]

Voidsmen at arms

[atomic void]

"heh yeah you killed 10000000 heretic but u suck" is not good storytelling

[tall torrent]

Drudge Jedd

[atomic void]

hey ill take that over edgelords

[grand perch]

what about dreadjudgedude

[chrome pasture]

I can name my arbitrator "TheLaw"

Yes. I am TheLaw.

[halcyon sigil]

tbf there was that arbites introduction cutscene where rannik got chewed out, honestly a pretty baller enterance for the arbites

[steady prism]

I have seen "No Body Cam", "Hes Resisting", "Bane Of the Homeless" and a few others

[atomic void]

hey i respect that they made the campaign a coherent package with linear storytelling at least
i imagine going through all the maps with context is huge for new players

[cobalt bane]

Idk why FS refuses to add abdomen armor even for ogryn he lacks it

[past stratus]

maybe those guys that are like high tech deep hive raiders? I forgot their names. The ones that scavenge the deep hives for lost technology?

[atomic void]

yeah that cutscene is very good

[tall torrent]

I’m pretty sure the arbites prologue cinematic happens after the campaign

[untold mulch]

Is better paced

still bad yeah. Like even in the most calm assumptions of what the 4 players are fighting, by mission 2 is kinda a "damn, they fight good"

[untold mulch]

True, not having to piece together an order by arcane methods

[atomic void]

yeah true

[chrome pasture]

the lower layers of the hive is just california, detroit, new york, chicago's skid rows all in 1 place

[atomic void]

so basically dont play campaign as arbites

[untold mulch]

I was expecting smth at least

[halcyon sigil]

tbf 'they fight good' and 'they might not live to the next week' arent mutually exclusive in warhammer, especially at inquisitorial level

[untold mulch]

True

[chrome pasture]

"No worries lexbreaker, my mastiff won't bite."

[untold mulch]

but this cutscene I think is after like mssion 3 or so

[atomic void]

true but it just doesnt make for an intresting story
pre campaign update that is all the story u get outside lore vox drops and stuff

[untold mulch]

like, Zola you idiot, you have already seen

[past stratus]

I think that people forget that our rejects are one of many rejects and that even if you feel like you are very special and strong. To the Inquisition you're just a number, fodder.

[untold mulch]

They got Dan to make the entire background and then butchered it all at release

[chrome pasture]

letting yall know the Imperial guard and the adeptus arbites are older than the inquisition

[atomic void]

im still waiting to see anything that even remotely resmebles dan's work

[untold mulch]

Nah, the canonical rejects is obviously above average

Like yeah at start you are one of many

[atomic void]

bro probably wrote two lines and called ita day

[tall torrent]

Wait till December then maybe smth

[untold mulch]

but by carnival and so

[halcyon sigil]

im just glad they put a cohesive story you can experience in the game, it means whatever they add after will actually feel like it has continuity

[untold mulch]

they have an actual expectation on your survival performance

[past stratus]

Above average to the maybe 20 NPCs that know you exist, in the grand scheme of things thats basically nothing. Even the whole operation in Tertium is just one of the many things happening in the Imperium at large

[tall torrent]

Istg if the “new thing” they said they’re giving veteran soon is that veteran are the only class that can add sights to their guns

[atomic void]

yeah i said that earlier too fully agreed
i recommended the game to a friend and his mind was blown away by the "map quality in the campaign" (he doesnt know that hell be grinding these maps nonstop

[past stratus]

it's not about power itself, its just about perception

[untold mulch]

Thats a given, but in the conflict of Atoma, is being clear that the main "rejects" are doing the emperor work

[atomic void]

what do u think the next update will be about

[untold mulch]

True that

[atomic void]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-discord-joe-angry-joe-laux-gif-11693760533131680280

[untold mulch]

I at least appreciate we now have a clear mission order

[tall torrent]

Zealot rework if it’s very close to completion
Maybe new vet weapon
But you can almost definitely expect arb’s dog to crash the game in some way

[faint beacon]

Im going to kill them

[past stratus]

I honestly think that most NPCs don't even believe our Rejects did half of the shit we do, like killing a beast of nurgle? Sure pal, good story. Only the ones actively monitoring our missions actually know for a fact we did shit.

[untold mulch]

Also the twins ambushing you now make a lot more sense when is before the traitor is caught

[halcyon sigil]

where the story ended now, we joined the warband officially after proving ourselves stopping a demon summoning ritual in an enemy stronghold, with the addition of the arbites, i think the story will finally be moving past the 'youre good but we still dont trust you' stage its been stuck at

[tall torrent]

I wouldn’t even be mad I’d just put laspistol’s reflex on every single gun

[untold mulch]

Like duh, the mission was compromised from the beginning

[atomic void]

oh fatshark never a dull moment

[untold mulch]

Around Carnival I noticed the dialogue began shooking off those lines tbh

Like yeah, expendable duh

But useful expendable

[halcyon sigil]

yup, basically im looking forward to the story now

[tall torrent]

Also fyi campaign has only 17 missions but there’re 20+ missions in the game

[halcyon sigil]

might actually go somewhere in the grand scheme of things

[tall torrent]

Some missions are not yet in the campaign so they’re probably after the campaign

[untold mulch]

The demon summoning shot the back of the head of the "you guys are nothing"

[past stratus]

The Arbites being around to atest to the usefulness of the Rejects should be huge for the Warband but I doubt they will go in that direction with it

[atomic void]

i hope it doesnt lose the rejects appeal tho but im glad its moving forward

[tall torrent]

Notably, Archivum Sycorax, where ur tasked to go into deep archives to find traitors

That’s almost definitely after the campaign

[atomic void]

also train one

[untold mulch]

The entire vibe is being the underdog, thrown into an impossible meatgrinder again and again

[halcyon sigil]

never forget our roots, we will always have pennances to pay to repent for eating that extra can of corpse starch!

[atomic void]

praise da embrah....

[untold mulch]

Arbiters tho kinda took away that underdog aspect

gave us an actual dog tho

[chrome pasture]

guys how come we got bolters but no hellguns

[untold mulch]

Because Hadron has a ballistic agenda

Trust me

[atomic void]

its a good twist

but i want the identity to remain

[chrome pasture]

how to lure rejects to nurgle: Show them a Hellgun

[halcyon sigil]

honestly? backpack conflicts with cosmetic slot imo

[untold mulch]

I been tempted for years now

[halcyon sigil]

i can imagine them putting it off just for that

[untold mulch]

I think pretty much every Hellgun fan considers it a worth sacrifice

[chrome pasture]

you can use mags

[untold mulch]

Hellgun mags kinda suck tho, unless you go basically single shot DMR style

[chrome pasture]

GIVE ME MY KASRKINS!!!!!!!!!1111111111111

[halcyon sigil]

im not saying its a good reason, just one i can imagine a designer drawing a line under

[tall torrent]

They could do the rogue trader route where equipping a hellgun overrides your backpack to be the las battery backpack

[untold mulch]

Is not a massive issue

[faint beacon]

Give the Hellgun an overheat mechanic also

[chrome pasture]

yep

[serene bough]

id imagine the next weapon we're getting for vet is a longlas

[chrome pasture]

like the dwarf engineer in vermintide

[faint beacon]

not like Plasma's just locks you out of firing

[untold mulch]

Speaking of Rogue Trader I finished that game with my RT never dropping the Hellgun

Taking down Bloodletters with a Hellgun burst was peak

[chrome pasture]

noooo

hellgun first

[halcyon sigil]

i can hope, that said seeing people shoot the recon las feels as oppressive as a gunner shooting back so we might already be therelol

[serene bough]

no insider info on that, just seems like the only weapon speicific enough for a vet

helgun would work too

[untold mulch]

Heat can be a good counter vs other lasguns

Other lasguns are just point and fire, and Hellgun requiring active control constantly

[faint beacon]

It should be ludicrously heavy also

2 dodges only etc

[halcyon sigil]

i wouldnt mind getting a meltagun

[untold mulch]

At best I can see the Hellgun wait being for a subclass

[halcyon sigil]

become jurgen

[hollow ibex]

so like the braced auto guns

[tall torrent]

It might be a melee weapon

[untold mulch]

Outcast Engineer code in VT2 is right there

[faint beacon]

Hits harder though

way harder

[chrome pasture]

Bolter
takes several people to make 1 bolt shell

Hellgun
Literally massed produced better lasgun that acts like a damn machine gun, good penetrating power and ammo economy

[tall torrent]

Vet needs good melee more than good ranged

[tame lodge]

Sworn Protector

My beloved

[hollow ibex]

they're making the longlas a melee weapon

[serene bough]

power fist?

[tame lodge]

[serene bough]

or that 2h powersword recently added a few months back

[untold mulch]

Yeah economics wise, the Hellgun should be available to us

[hollow ibex]

yeah im just memeing about BAG getting 2 fucking dodges

[untold mulch]

if we get powerswords and bolters

Hellguns should be trivial to adquire some

[tall torrent]

I think 2-handed imperial navy breacher power axe

[faint beacon]

Cause fuck you you're not allowed to have nice things

[chrome pasture]

its goofy how the warband just has a shit ton of bolters lying around but any las-based gun has no hotshot variant 💀

[halcyon sigil]

if they wanted us to have an exceptional melee weapon they wouldnt have nerfed the energy sword tbf

im happy with my knife

[faint beacon]

there was a reason

[untold mulch]

That goes back to my argument that Hadron was an anti laser agenda, it all makes sense

[tall torrent]

Power sword is still like top 5 melee in the game lol

[untold mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-theory-explaining-gif-13403485

[faint beacon]

but now we've looped into powercreep

[serene bough]

id accept this

[chrome pasture]

Hadron is with big bolter

[faint beacon]

but still PS is incredible

[serene bough]

a new axe weapon would be nice for vet

[untold mulch]

You see it

[serene bough]

id really prefer a ranged weapon though

[chrome pasture]

the big bolter agenda makes us think that we don't need hellguns

[untold mulch]

[halcyon sigil]

i think theres more meaningful variety you can introduce with how a class specific ranged weapon works vs a melee too

[serene bough]

i think we've been far beyond that point at this time

[chrome pasture]

the rise of boltgun availability is a conspiracy brewed by the technoarcheologist's affiliation to big bolter production lines, not allowing the shipment of much needed Scions and hellguns into the Mourningstar

[serene bough]

im okay with the power creep as long as every class feels good to play

[halcyon sigil]

melta could be a charge up narrow cone armor piercing flamethrower shotgun thingie, sounds interesting atleast

[untold mulch]

So, SM melta

[chrome pasture]

nah do the space marine route and give it poor ammo economy

[halcyon sigil]

but ofcourse

[tame lodge]

Plasma gun but shotgun

It's so easy

[atomic void]

give bro his power axe

[chrome pasture]

considering it's literally blasting a shit ton of microwaves that can melt CERAMITE

source: Jurgen

[halcyon sigil]

imperial guard stuff is basically smaller weaker or, same power but needs a team to move weapons relative to space marine stuff, so yeah working similar but scaled appropriately for darktides balance

[chrome pasture]

for now the nearest thing I got to the hellgun is the accatran lasgun 💀

love elysian drop troops but damn :(

[untold mulch]

Accatran lasgun is nice

but I need a LMG style lasgun

[serene bough]

or a stubber

[untold mulch]

Recon is more a SMG in practice

[barren nimbus]

What makes your character hold their primary guns on the build screen

[halcyon sigil]

i do have to wonder what the selling point of a hellgun would be relative to what the recon las does already

[untold mulch]

Both

Personally I have a laser bias

[serene bough]

heavier armor pen id guess

[halcyon sigil]

slower firing but some armor piercing?

[untold mulch]

I play better with Brauto than Recon

but Brauto is not a laser

sooo

[chrome pasture]

what am I PDF?

[serene bough]

tbh i wouldnt think a recon lasgun should be as good as it is now

[serene bough]

would never complain if they added a massive punchy LMG

[halcyon sigil]

you could be a tank commander, they use stubbers

[serene bough]

las or not

[chrome pasture]

eh true

[halcyon sigil]

just minus the tank

[chrome pasture]

stub revolvers exist

[untold mulch]

They could go to a variant of Vet where you ahve different paths maybe

I remember having a convo like that

one side of the "Gunner" tree being like Stubber, the other a Hellgun and such

[halcyon sigil]

oh do i have image perms now? nice

[untold mulch]

Outcast Engineer code is RIGHT THERE

[chrome pasture]

remember: Most veterans in darktide can literally be qualified to be Kasrkin.

[serene bough]

were I to redesign vet I would've had 2 ranged damage trees (one precise weapons one automatic weapons) and the middle tree being mostly the same but merging melee talents within it

[halcyon sigil]

one side of the tree rn is stubber in the archetype art

[untold mulch]

I agree with you

[untold mulch]

YEP, AND I DONT FUCKIGN SEE THAT INGAME

[chrome pasture]

we have to unionize against big bolter to get our hellguns

[serene bough]

"Sharpshooter"

[chrome pasture]

remember: with enough las weapons, nothing can stop the guard

[halcyon sigil]

hey, hes hitting his target!... and a lot of other things

[tall torrent]

High ADMs across the board, less mobile, overheat mechanic instead of reloading, higher ammo cost per shot fired

[untold mulch]

The 3 veteran personalities if we go by cannon are basically EliteGuardsmen/Stormtroopers 100%

Probably better than the average Kasrkin/Scion

[tall torrent]

No
They’re more like 1 gene seed away from becoming space marines

[untold mulch]

Soooo

[serene bough]

if they were canon i'd question how threatening nurgle actually is

[untold mulch]

Like an average Catachan

[serene bough]

drunken guardsman casually stabs BoN 40 times in the belly and kills without succumbing to the rot

[tall torrent]

They’re canon

Darktide is canon to 40k

[halcyon sigil]

the only thing holding us back is that we arent offically named characters tbh, otherwise even without stormtrooper training we might as well be one of gaunts ghosts

[untold mulch]

Yeah is named character buff

[serene bough]

crazy to think about even for a named charaacter

[tall torrent]

FYI cutthroat basically came straight from the aftermath of the 13th black crusade

[orchid hemlock]

Hellbore ATM is probably one of the best ranged options in Havoc

[halcyon sigil]

hes holding it together as well as cadia did

[tall torrent]

And according to FS’s own numbers there’re at least 1.3 million cadian survivors fighting in tertium

[untold mulch]

tbf is a low (by 40k standard) invasion rn

[normal bay]

Cadians are cockroaches confirmed

[untold mulch]

and I assume the rejects are not fighitng a Beast of Nurgle every single mission

But at least the forced boss spawns

[serene bough]

the invasion scale is not so much my problem, moreso how a lone guardsman can just solo plogryns/BoN/spawns with a kitchen knife

[untold mulch]

I assume is the "gameplay/story segregation"

[atomic void]

its just gamepaly liberity

[halcyon sigil]

tbf if you assume every time you get 'downed' cannonically is just a reject dieing and being replaced with the next in line... i can understand why theyre having manpower issues

[untold mulch]

gameplay to be fun we are doing horde shooter

[serene bough]

yeah i guess so

[untold mulch]

canonically we are being little rats

[chrome pasture]

its goofy how 4 random prisoners can somehow kill several nurgle daemons, 1/4 of the Moebian 6th and still manage to go back to the ship

[atomic void]

cause arktide cares more about fun gameplay than hyper accurate presenation

[serene bough]

but still funny to think of as canon regardless lol

[untold mulch]

Like storywise the rejects may be ambushing most patrols and fights last 3 seconds

I like to think

that DT gameplay

is what the rejects tell at a bar

"I swear, there were like 3 daemons"

[chrome pasture]

the advantages of having a name lmao

[untold mulch]

"and I only had my knife"

true story fr

[heavy rover]

They gave us a name and let us take off our helmets. That's the power of plot armour

[chrome pasture]

"So....... was it a tuesday or wednesday?"

[atomic void]

the whole point is we dont have names
my headcannon is 95% of strike teams die and only the gifted ones survive
and also gameplay liberity cuse this is a horde game

[serene bough]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTD6q962W8w

[untold mulch]

Isn ot a headcannon if its canon

[heavy rover]

The zealots with scripture stapled to their faces is peak plot armour

[untold mulch]

The average strike team has a massive attrition rate

[tall torrent]

Yea but that’s not true

DT is fully canon

[untold mulch]

but we play as the holy shit they are cracked Reject squad

[chrome pasture]

look man the biggest plot armour is going into a Nurgle influenced hive city without a damn rebreather

[atomic void]

yeah you told me this before and it just seems silly af to me

[tall torrent]

Even wolfer acknowledges that the 4 crackheads are insanely strong

Which is canon

[halcyon sigil]

the idea that rejects that give sly marbo a run for his money just get taken prisoner by the 6th just to get freed a few minutes later like a saturday morning cartoon is maybe a bit of a stretch cannonically

[atomic void]

this is named space marine level of bullshit plot armor

[untold mulch]

I SO HATE MOST OF THE VET ARMOR HAS THE FACE UNCOVERED

[untold mulch]

mhmm

[chrome pasture]

you mean to tell me, YALL DIDN'T SMELL ANYTHING?!

[chrome pasture]

we got the vaccines B)

[orchid hemlock]

Everything is canon

[chrome pasture]

Brothers of Battle

[tall torrent]

Btw I finished like 6 melee weapons in guide yesterday lol

[chrome pasture]

Female Tyranids are a thing.

[tall torrent]

Going to Japan in 2 days

[atomic void]

what if its the same case a boltgun where its "cannon" but its not confirmed or denied
could be just a legend
a legend of a named space marine that wiped out an entire pantheon of chaos daemons just becuase he's that cool

[tall torrent]

Then I come back to maybe finish the other stuff within 14 days

[void dragon]

Something interesting in mind for such travel?

[halcyon sigil]

doing the original pennace to get the carapace rebreather helmet has had amazing milage considering ive been wearing it ever since lmao

[orchid hemlock]

Just in time for the Vet rework

[tall torrent]

Yea first real vacation in 6y lol

[void dragon]

Path is coming in 4000?!

[untold mulch]

Also, man I just noticed Arbiter kinda steals our spotlight on narrative cracked

Ogryn is genius level by Ogryn standards
Psyker is crazy stable and one has a line to the Emperor
Zealot can manifest faith casually
Veteran was the crazy normal bastard that is basically Rambo

[chrome pasture]

must be a rich ass guard regiment to have more than 10 bolters

[orchid hemlock]

*40000

[untold mulch]

Arbiters kinda has to be the same in some way no?

[serene bough]

guide delayed another 3 months

[chrome pasture]

we're the IRS.

[untold mulch]

TRUE, and same

[tall torrent]

Nah I’m gonna publish once veteran parts are done

[chrome pasture]

we just came for the tithe

[tall torrent]

Then I’ll work on other classes’ parts on the backend

[serene bough]

nice kudos to you

[chrome pasture]

because apparently, wolfer didn't pay his TAXES

[tall torrent]

And gradually release them to the published ver

[chrome pasture]

so now we're involved

to arrest wolfer for tax evasion

[untold mulch]

Chaos invasion I sleep

No taxes paid real shit

[chrome pasture]

literally the Badab war

[tall torrent]

I have a lot of very colorful things to say about some weapons

[untold mulch]

Say them

[chrome pasture]

Arbites shotgun is literally a trench shotgun lmao

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-beach-steam-emoji-sunset-gif-3837748048620888892

[tall torrent]

I will in my guide

[untold mulch]

but that, I kinda dislike now Arbiter thinking that narratively speaking they lowkey stealing the spotlight of Vet being the badass normal

[tall torrent]

Can’t wait to list “inconsistent damage” for both exterminator shotguns as a con

[void dragon]

Anything of sneak peak for the chainsword?

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/desiler-giga-chad-gif-9574825124538696572

The shotgun curse

[void dragon]

"just aim better"

[serene bough]

speaking of shotguns which mark is the best from the original trio

[tall torrent]

Yea the single target combo is:

Swap to ranged weapon
→ Start blasting

[void dragon]

Peak

[atomic void]

arbites are not stealing that cause they're not the same

they're highly trained intergalagctic police

[tall torrent]

I finished both shock mauls, duelling sword IV and all 3 tac axes yesterday

[atomic void]

different purpose

[serene bough]

arby and vet doesnt seem to get along from my brief interactions

[tall torrent]

Arb are definitely not normal

[atomic void]

an average imperial guardsman is waaay more "normal" than an arabebebee

[tall torrent]

Which vet did u pick

[serene bough]

LC

[tall torrent]

Oh lol ya

[untold mulch]

In which way?

[tall torrent]

Cutthroat + any arb = diabolical

[tall torrent]

They’re all from schola progenium so at the very least they go through imperial brainwashing (in a much more literal way than mere propaganda)

[untold mulch]

Cutthroat still has not mentally recovered after the professional line of

"You will fall apart at the last moment, JUST LIKE CADIA"

The sudden stop of

Holy fucking shit

Actual murder

[void dragon]

Meanwhile loose Cannon vet flirting with the fatalistic Arby

[tame lodge]

Agripina

Followed by Zarona

[untold mulch]

Yeah but still IMO fits into "mostly human without special powers"

[untold mulch]

LC is just vibes

[tall torrent]

They’re also far likelier to receive augments during their training

[atomic void]

they're straight up a higher tier

compared to your average guardsman

[tall torrent]

They’re above avg guardsmen

[untold mulch]

Badass Normal trope is the "no special powers dude keeping up with "superpowered" folk"

[void dragon]

We talk mechanical ones or actual super serum?

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-better-gif-26268581

[atomic void]

zealot exists

[untold mulch]

Yeah but the playable Vet was not an average guardsman, thats the thing

[atomic void]

bro is normal

[orchid hemlock]

Wait, is everyone in the Imperium just psychotic? 🤔

[untold mulch]

Faith feats

[tall torrent]

Roughly equal tier as stormtrooper-adjacent units

Which, DT veteran kinda exceeds

[tame lodge]

Yesnt

[untold mulch]

Zealot yeah not all subclasses but has faith buffs implied at least my opinion

[atomic void]

im just saying arbites arent stealing anything, they're not really similar to guardsman besides being human

[tall torrent]

All classes can get vored by beast of nurgle and not immediately contract covid-19000 I think they all got insane faith stat

[untold mulch]

Yeah, is kinda silly

[orchid hemlock]

Arbi when they take "lone wolf"

Arbi when they take dog:

[atomic void]

in reality its simple
vet = comically op guardsman (possibily big e himself)
arbites = the legs

[untold mulch]

True that, but Zealot is the one that can actually do active stuff with it

Anyways lets not keep the argument I see not. Many share my stance

[untold mulch]

Biblically accurate Guardsman

[long dove]

You don't become a guard vet without being either a badass or extremely lucky

[orchid hemlock]

Psyker in the belly be like: "wow, what a visceral dream I'm in 🙀"

[untold mulch]

Both kinda

[long dove]

Or a lil of both. Caine says hello

[untold mulch]

Some guard fronts kinda require to still be lucky af

[atomic void]

reminds me of the comments under that clip of an old ass imperial guard who blew up a daemon

they were all like

[untold mulch]

Like Master Chief level luck mf

[atomic void]

fear those who stay in the frontlines at old age yada yada

[long dove]

Tbf Chief is a condensed can of whoopass.

[untold mulch]

Yeah, but the luck part was the point

Lowkey love that Halo made the plot armor an actual factor that people in setting notice of hin

[long dove]

As well as damn bear close to Astartes

[atomic void]

nvm it was a word bearer chaos marine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP5uzoeZ-lI

badass clip

[tame lodge]

Loner doesn't have much faith on the emperor

Which means that when he gets slimed by BoN

[past stratus]

what is the recommended mark for the Vigilant Autogun, fellas?

[tame lodge]

He just doesn't get sick

Bro's built different

[tame lodge]

I recommend the 7

It's a semi auto

[past stratus]

thank you

[tame lodge]

Doesn't get motion sickness from the double and triple burst

[grand perch]

5 bosses once you step out of the first elevator on refinery delta

sometimes havoc can just go fuck itself

[past stratus]

I'm just leveling it, never used it before so I'm a bit clueless

[elder vessel]

Orthus Offensive is actually quite fun and idk why this wasn't just a normal map

From the start

[untold mulch]

Loner vaccines working overtime for their sad ass

[long dove]

The apathy really helps.

[tame lodge]

Nurgle super sickness that messes with your body and soul

Nah

Loner doesn't care

[long dove]

Tbf that's a legit strat

[tame lodge]

[long dove]

I forgot his name but that one chaos marine telling slaanesh to their face that they ain't real

[grand perch]

fabius bile

[long dove]

Thank you

[tall torrent]

Cuz he’s the weakest of the 3 psyker personalities

[untold mulch]

Bile really staring eye to eye to an incomprehensible psychic being

And go, meh

[long dove]

I'm a fan if Richtofen

[tall torrent]

Seer is strongest
Savant is second strongest
Loner is weakest

[untold mulch]

I really dont see anyone picking it

Is very rare

Seer is the beloved one? Right

[long dove]

Which one is Richtofen?

[long dove]

Makes sense if so

[untold mulch]

Having a fragment of Emps is crazy implications tbh

[tame lodge]

Yes

He's kinda

Too strong

But doesn't acknowledge it

[tall torrent]

Yea cuz they’re also the worst personality in the game 💀

It’s no coincidence they share the same name as the worst aura in the game

[elder vessel]

tfw willpower has an actual effect on the warp so "id win" is an actual defense against the perils of the supernatural

[atomic void]

if loner is the german one

he's funny af

[elder vessel]

yes

loner is the funny psyker

[atomic void]

he became 10x funnier when i knew that his voice actor does one of the ogryn voices

insane range

[normal bay]

Hurry up and rescue me simpletons

[elder vessel]

Loner is the psyker I play

my personal choice of scrunkly

[hollow ibex]

my beloved says it's ok to kill you

[chrome pasture]

my beloved also says so

[orchid hemlock]

Seer gaslighting everyone into oblivion that they aren't real

[sudden cedar]

They would very rapidly realize that everything around them is real when they get a bullet to the head from one too trigger happy Zealot.

Or a Veteran who just had enough.

[unreal nova]

Psykers just do that anyway. I'm still getting gaslit every single time I go there to point out facts.

[scenic basin]

How does Crucian Roulette interact Always Prepared Keystone modifier? (the one that resotres ammo to the clip)

[long dove]

Is that the Richtofen sound alike?

[past stratus]

fellas I shoot the crusher with my funny vigilant autogun and my cursor goes blue and all I hear is plink plink plink 😭

[heavy rover]

I like vet's banter with psyker that's all like "for the last time, you're not dreaming! This is all real!"

[sudden cedar]

Simpleton is for the Loner Psyker.

[tame meadow]

Shredder autopistol is S tier on veteran bro

[sudden cedar]

Whatever the Male one tries to make for an accent its.. weird.

[tame meadow]

it's the best weapon ever

[long dove]

Then I guess I'm a loner. I just think he sounds like the German scientist from CoD zombies

[untold mulch]

The only ones I have no clue of how to differentiate are the Zealot ones

[unreal nova]

Male loner is German.

[untold mulch]

in terms of Voice = Personality

[long dove]

Ah then I have loner and I hear it a lot from others

[faint beacon]

Scottish = Fanatic
Any refrences of Judgement or Stern tone = Judge
Pretends to understand high gothic by saying "thy" every 2 seconds = Agitator

[untold mulch]

[frank basin]

I put fanatic on Hispanic body look

Now is weird

But his voice fitting

Viktor-Josepyre

[untold mulch]

Veteran: Loose Cannon
Zealot: Agitator?
Ogryn: Brawler
Psyker: Seer

are my character run up

[tame lodge]

Doth thou zealot speaketh liketh this

[past stratus]

I love the Professional Vet

[lone radish]

Graaah cadia vet

[past stratus]

the professional has fun interactions with everyone imo

[lone radish]

Is that the cadia one?

[untold mulch]

Gonna make a match to remember, but I vaguely remember yes because I found it funny

[untold mulch]

No thats Cutthroat

[lone radish]

Right

He sounds like Alex Mason lol

[untold mulch]

Professional is just, idk like a regulation type mf

[lone radish]

Yeah the codes guy

[untold mulch]

And LC is a vibe

[unreal nova]

I go by feels. Loose Cannon, Fanatic, Loner, Bodyguard, Fatalist.

[untold mulch]

I will need to check the voices of the three arbiters

no intention to pay 15 bucks for the class tho

[unreal nova]

Fatalist is probably the nicest of the 3.

[untold mulch]

How weird considered by the name

[unreal nova]

Maul is memes. You either get NOT batman who likes violence or Keri.

The third is BY THE LEX type.

Book standard cop.

[unreal nova]

I guess it's from actually understanding the people still suffering even if they can't do anything about it.

[obtuse finch]

Can I share my build here? I would appreciate feedback. :>

[unreal nova]

Vet, yes.

[obtuse finch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9f4ba27b-975e-4d90-b15a-33bf0aabed69/veteran-that-lives
I'm not the best at buildcrafting, but

I just tried to go with things that make me live longer?

...it doesn't seem to work, given I'm not the best overall

[orchid hemlock]

What is this build trying to do?

Like is it focused on just the bolt pistol?

[untold mulch]

I see

[barren nimbus]

Do you guys run flak and mutant power swords, I like unyielding for boss stat padding

[obtuse finch]

not get downed every ten seconds, again I'm new to buildcrafting. i used to just go with 'whatever sounds cool' given i only play on Heresy

[orchid hemlock]

3 wounds is probably the worst part of this build tbh

Replace them with 2 toughness and the last can be up to you, but don't take wounds

[obtuse finch]

really?
huh

[orchid hemlock]

Wounds provides no benefits to survivability

It just means you can go down more times

[obtuse finch]

right

[orchid hemlock]

Vet in general also likes toughness because of iron will

[unreal nova]

Considering I like loner even if they can be snarky and rude at times... it just, they tell us what they have been through. An unlucky unwanted psyker, trying to scurry around and hide to avoid death.

[orchid hemlock]

Well every class likes toughness

[elder vessel]

Wounds are only for a very specific kind of zealot build, they are utterly worthless on anybody else

[obtuse finch]

i always run voice of command / tag enemy for dmg buffs, should i not?

[unreal nova]

2 toughness, 1 hp or 1 +3 stamina. Stam depends on your build and melee.

Can go 3 toughness as well tbh.

[orchid hemlock]

Yes that's fine, the build does look oversaturated tho, but the biggest problem is by far the 3 wound curios

[obtuse finch]

what does oversaturated mean in this context

[orchid hemlock]

You are wasting points that don't provide that much benefit to your build

[obtuse finch]

ah

[orchid hemlock]

But again, that doesn't really matter in respect to your problem

I'm telling you if you just replace those 3 wound curios you will notice a night and day difference

[unreal nova]

Vet requires minmaxxing to work tbh. Problem of crazy taxes.

[elder vessel]

get different curios and that is it

need nothing else to be heresy viable

[orchid hemlock]

Like sure I can tweak some things in the build but since this is just for norms it doesn't really matter that much, at least not yet

[obtuse finch]

the thing is on heresy i can just kind of do whatever
i want to start doing damnation, so i want to actually take a second to look at my build

[orchid hemlock]

One thing I would also remove is weak spot damage on the bolt pistol, it is extremely bad as a stat on general

[mystic owl]

I like to just full on stamina with my curios

[elder vessel]

crazy person

[mystic owl]

Crazy fast person*

[unreal nova]

This is true. Heresy is where you can mess around. Damnation is when you start to focus on a niche unless playing op broken oggy.

[normal bay]

This guys going full deadshot

[orchid hemlock]

If you want I can just give you a revised version of what I would run on bolt pistol

[obtuse finch]

sure

[obtuse finch]

my Slab is built around tanking as much damage as humanly possible (and also giving out damage too)
i can put it into gameslantern in a moment

[unreal nova]

Is oggy. You can pick anything an it'll work.

[obtuse finch]

true

true

[mystic owl]

All health, pump them ogryn numbers up

[obtuse finch]

100%

[elder vessel]

part of survivability is slapping the enemy around with a degree of competence so I could recommend dipping into the right bottom part of the tree for some melee buffs

[normal bay]

Make sure you soak up all those health packs solo

[unreal nova]

Why the dook do you want to eat the entire medcrate yourself?

[mystic owl]

I try to avoid them

[obtuse finch]

many thanks

[mystic owl]

The worst is when you have a zealot on the medi crate holding a grim and having the passive that removes corruption

[unreal nova]

Try field improv vet facepalming at the idiot who picked up the grim.

Also, same idiot refuses to stay out of heal range even after we put it in a corner cos everyone else figured what is going on.

Need to heal? Back a little to the corner.

[untold mulch]

I avoid eveyr grim mission

[tame meadow]

I have a question about this, does it stack the crit chance above it or it stacks several shots with crit chance increased ?

[untold mulch]

Just a pain i nthe ass

the average quickplay struggles normally, they are gonna win with half hp

[untold mulch]

Just one proc of +crit I believe

[unreal nova]

No, just 1 crit shot. You need 4 kills for it. Rest of them only has aspd.

[untold mulch]

WS wants you to mainly use low RoF weapons

[untold mulch]

eh with 3, you have 99%

just with the 5% base

nothing more to get taht 100%

[unreal nova]

Eh, you can still go to 10 for aspd.

[untold mulch]

Yeah absolutely

but just that if you want the guaranteed crit, 3 melee crits guarantee a ranged crit

I dislike how its done IMO, makes it so onyl weapons like Plasma truly take advantage of that bonus

[orchid hemlock]

You can also do the exact same build with smokes

[hollow ibex]

I like it. Works well only for specific weapons but works very well

[unreal nova]

It's more to blast specials after meleeing stuff.

Just don't dodge yourself off maps.

[hollow ibex]

Maybe they should make it so that every three melee kills gives you a guaranteed crit

[untold mulch]

My issue is exactly that, is needlessly limiting to only a couple of weapons

[hollow ibex]

Up to 3 shots with guaranteed crit

[tepid quest]

I finally completed ‘make every shot count’ does anyone have any tips of how to get ‘long bomb’ and ‘on overwatch’ now. If so I would very much appreciate it

[untold mulch]

long bomb can be done on maps iwth the long bridges and just getting the angle right

Overwatch kinda is just in a way that I don't quite like to say "git gud"

Pick shout for that golden toughness and play without getting hit, there is not much science behind it

[scenic basin]

i've been asking all day and don't get an answer. How does Crucian Roulette interact Always Prepared Keystone modifier? (the one that restores ammo to the clip) Does it count as me "reloading" the weapon and therefore dropping the stacks?

[tame lodge]

Man

Do you have 1 bullet left?

[halcyon sigil]

thats a good question, I dont think it should if they define reloading as initiating the action to do the animation, but you might just have to test it in the psykanium

[tame lodge]

There

You have

6 times 4 CRIT chance

Don't even know why you're bothering with crucian on always prepared

[scenic basin]

Wish I could butmy buff tray is screwed up for some reason

[sonic kayak]

It looks like it is exactly how it sounds it works

Every bullet earned and reloaded does not drop your stacks but just reduces that step of the blessing

At least what this rudimentary testing shows

[scenic basin]

Doing a penance and want to maximize my crit chance. Plus it's useful to know if I ever want to make 100% crit build

[scenic basin]

It just "resets on reload" wording that confused me. Was wondering if bullets magically appearing in my clip counts as reloading for the purposes of this

[sonic kayak]

It looks like no? Just drops a stack of the blessing

[bitter turtle]

Crucian and similar skills are based on the number of missing bullets

It doesn't actually have anything to do with reloads

[tame lodge]

3 stacks of WS is 100% chance already

[scenic basin]

In case I only have one or two extra crit helps to speed things up

[tame lodge]

Point Blank is more reliable

20% regardless of amount of ammo

Try not to say of challenge

[scenic basin]

Por que no los dos as they say

[tame lodge]

Yo no hablo español

Anyways lunch time

See y'all later

[scenic basin]

I'm a returning player so I forgot all the intricacies. Was going off pure wording of it and got confused. Wish they had an ingame glossary or something. For example what's the difference between rending and brittleness?

[vestal widget]

see the guide in the second pin down

[sonic kayak]

Rending is a buff to yourself, brittleness is a debuff to the enemy, but both stack with each other in a nutshell

[scenic basin]

I was just using it as an example. I can see how new player can confuse the two or having to look up the difference between +% power, +% strength and +% damage. Glossary in-game would be very helpful for that so you don't have to alt+tab to look things up

[vapid thunder]

what dump on hellbore

[frank basin]

Collateral?

Depend on mark

[vapid thunder]

doesnt have collat

[frank basin]

I forgot what it has

[vapid thunder]

dmg ammo charge rate stabiity and stopping power

[frank basin]

Charge rate is most of time

One of fast charge rate

Would dump charge rate

[tame lodge]

It's stability

[unreal nova]

Stability.

[frank basin]

Heavy one idk about stopping power; it would be important

Ooooh right the helbore most time is ads

Recoil is non-exist on helbore

[tepid quest]

Thank you!

[untold mulch]

I wish I could give more advice, but it really is a "dont get hit in melee"

[unreal nova]

Or you can just ask someone to carry. I don't think they fixed it yet.

[untold mulch]

I accidentally did it on a high intensity heresy, you will naturally get there

[untold mulch]

I was assuming they did tbh

[unreal nova]

Just ask someone to solo while you hang and die without ever getting hit.

[frank basin]

Penances chasing is like “most gambler 99% quit before winning”

[unreal nova]

I'll try if there's an assassination mission or something.

[untold mulch]

I need to kjeep the penances I am at like 3k points

[tepid quest]

That is good to know but I think I’d rather actually do it instead of cheese it. It just feels better that way

[frank basin]

Use Taxe it help you dodge melee easier not getting hit and your friend team can assist you

[unreal nova]

It's a last resort thing. It's basically when you get so tired of trying.

[frank basin]

Or go whatever you like Melee if you want extra challenge

[normal bay]

Just yeet grenades at far away groups of enemies, you'll get long bomb eventually.

Low Int malice, kraks, shout, Duelling sword, double barrel.

Kraks kill bosses, yellow toughness keeps your health safe and DS lets you run away or poke scary things. Double barrel blasts anything that gets close

[untold mulch]

Is better designed than make shot count at least

[frank basin]

Make shot count i cheese with shotgun and magdump on bulwark shield

That were long time ago

[untold mulch]

I used plasma and overcharged, took me a few tries

I am naturally a spray and pray shooter

that penance was just a pain

[unreal nova]

I did my run with knoife on heresy. Was like, I took 0 damage so why not try for it.

0 damage run get.

[tepid quest]

I currently run the dueling sword and the spearhead boltgun but I will give the shotgun a try

[unreal nova]

Cue gremlining around not getting hit.

[tepid quest]

I grinded for like 4 hrs yesterday and got the make every shot count with the revolver

[past stratus]

there was a topic about vet on reddit, asking if it needed a rework or buffs, the replies made me a bit annoyed. Thx for reading

[orchid hemlock]

I remember being down voted to oblivion for saying that Scavenger isn't a "must take" aura

Or when I said that kraks and smokes aren't nearly as bad as people want to believe

[frank basin]

Vet need rework for interest tree, some node rework is a bandaid for same products

Just need fresh some node work and it be fun back to play