veteran-class

[neon current]

and it doesn't cleave to begin with, so 60 - 80 won't make much of a diff 😄

[safe raptor]

aight ty

[topaz lance]

coming back to vet after playing arbites is like someone taking the training wheels off

[elder vessel]

Ran into the psyker again

[hollow ibex]

I’m planning to revisit vet to brush up my skills lol

[sick spindle]

tips for using the plasma gun?

[tall torrent]

hipfire headshot

and learn melee

[frank basin]

When come the nerf what you gonna do?

[sick spindle]

oh dont have to aim?

[frank basin]

Nah just hipfiring

[sick spindle]

ah ok sweet

[frank basin]

Is deal 500+ damage

[sick spindle]

damn ok

[frank basin]

You can spam before get overheat

[sick spindle]

and what percentages to not shoot at before i go boom

[tall torrent]

well, u don't have ADS, but ur gonna have to aim for headshot

[sick spindle]

just used it for first time and went boom LOL

[frank basin]

It auto vent when you’re at 90%

[tall torrent]

don't charge shot, simple

[frank basin]

But when charge it doesn’t give you safety

[sick spindle]

ah ok just jsut hip fire taps

okay ill try that out then thanks

[frank basin]

@tall torrent what do you think upcoming plasma nerf?

[hollow ibex]

You should aim for the head

[sick spindle]

nerf 😦 I justed started using it

[hollow ibex]

Hard to miss the head anyway

[frank basin]

I read they trying make secondary charge useful

[hollow ibex]

The hitbox is big

[sick spindle]

yeah okay

[neon current]

@tall torrent dog electro is counted as melee?

[frank basin]

With your melee equipped yes

[neon current]

that's why my crit % is so low on arbi with the crit node

[frank basin]

With blessing high voltage with dog talent electrocute yeah

[neon current]

electro ticks fuck the number up

twas driving me nuts

why I have 10% crit with 7.5+18

and I know it's not critchance

still

[tall torrent]

idk
idk how u even decided building crit was bad in the first place lol

[neon current]

it's still not good

it's around 10% dmg on mauls

[frank basin]

It feel like prebuff massacre on ogryn

Ya?

[hollow ibex]

He said the Arbi 16 percent crit mode barely increased his crit rate based on the scoreboard

[neon current]

you won't realistically get +18% out of the talent, more like 15%, which is 10.5% dmg at 70% critdmg

more with the 25% node obviously

[tall torrent]

yea I told him scoreboard's way of calculating it is super flawed then he either didn't understand what I meant or refused to

[hollow ibex]

Which is what I told him too

[neon current]

I understand what you say

that still didn't explain the number

electro dmg does

and even at +15% ,crit it only gives 10% maul dmg

[sly orchid]

powerDI is more accurate so i use that

[neon current]

taht shit takes too long to load

[tall torrent]

if it still checks crit hit rate then it's still super flawed

no other way around it

[sly orchid]

it does check it

[frank basin]

Mmm I use simple show crit chance

[sly orchid]

usually howers around 5-25% depending on weapon i use

[tall torrent]

yea, then the check is flawed

because crit hit is not the same thing as crit attack

[neon current]

it doesn't matter

it still is a good indicator dmg amp wise

[tall torrent]

nah

it's so wildly inaccurate it doesn't rly mean anything

[neon current]

and even without, a simple math will prove the 16% talent being just average

instead of the must have everyone tries to make it out be

even at a theoretical 100% uptime, which you won't have, albeit close to

it's 16*.7=11.2

[hollow ibex]

I don’t take take it in all my builds

[neon current]

ye me neither

being called out for it as usual 😄

it's fine if you want EO, but that's bout it

[torn gorge]

tbh is such low investment

and arbites revelatum is relatively high in uptime

so its not difficult to justify that point there

[neon current]

not at all, now that I figured out what's skewing my numbers

the 15% dmg ones are still more important is my point

[torn gorge]

are you doing a melee build?

[neon current]

always

😄

[torn gorge]

that side is kinda nobrainer

for that purpose

[neon current]

yep

I just wish I could grab forceful talents with EO

EO is so fuckin good

leaves exe stance in deep shame

[torn gorge]

i generally take only target acquired tbh

with forceful

[neon current]

I will never not have adamant will

[torn gorge]

will of the lex is often time redundant

and 25% str is nice i suppose

[neon current]

and will of the lex is always at 10 with an electro dog stacking it

[torn gorge]

but implies you get some cdr

[neon current]

so I dont care about will with lone wolf

but with dog, it's just always at near max stacks

[torn gorge]

do you really have need for will of the lex when running melee though?

[neon current]

let's me skip a toughness talent up top

its a very low investment constant toughness battery

[torn gorge]

idk, force of will/hammer of judgement/up close/walk it off seems pretty high value

[neon current]

comes handy kiting barricade as last man alive

I know that from experience 😄

but I don't mind not having lex

adamant is a must tho

[torn gorge]

depends on weapons i think

shield already block everything

so you just get only stun immunity

which is also kind of whatever considering how safe shield is

especially with a 20m 210 degrees stun cone

[neon current]

true

it's whatever with shield

but I am only using shield on my nuncio spam support build

that has EO for CDR

bonk stick too much fun

[torn gorge]

🛡️

[mighty anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-ryan-gosling-blade-runner-2049-blade-runner-darktide-when-you-find-me-gif-13647306158287826208

WHY IS THIS SUCH A MOOD lol

[untold mulch]

Lasguns being able to mutilate is something new?

I don't remember Recon being able to do that

[torn gorge]

the gibbing has been increased for everything

now even a blunt weapon is able to bisect a mutant or crusher

[untold mulch]

Damn

Kinda weird for the blunt ones, but the lasguns being able to do that, has increased enjoyment factor tbh

Finally, canon lasgun

[torn gorge]

you mean cannon lasgun

[barren nimbus]

Is the recon lasgun the best gun for the sharpshooter keystone grind

Or whatever the left one is

[mighty anvil]

gibbing makes me feel good inside

[torn gorge]

its also sort of diminishing the adrenaline factor of chain weapons tbh

[faint beacon]

its probably a bug tbh

but Im enjoying it

Tac Axe bisecting Poxwalkers gives a certain filling I cant describe

[tame lodge]

Gibbing errors all around it seems

[tall torrent]

nah, u want high finesse weapons for that keystone

[faint beacon]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/kBEIWHIgzrtjyMeNe?invite=cr-MSx0cVQsMTA3NDAxNTcz

gibbing bug is awesome and at all but there are like

clear indicators this isn't intended

[unreal nova]

You swing it so hard, they go BOOM.

I kinda wish they just make it a toggle in the settings for those who actually like this.

Or a free DLC that enables BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD mode.

[sleek garden]

im surprised the shock maul killed it so fast

but splitting in half doesnt seem likely

[unreal nova]

Like how they used to do it in some other WH games.

[faint beacon]

Shaul Buff

Arby makes it fucking insanely cracked

but I mean thats a given with the class lmao

Also they changed how specials work on it

[sleek garden]

i use it with the perfect block blessing and skullcrusher on veteran

[faint beacon]

super nice

[sleek garden]

for silliness

[unreal nova]

Smash shield into things, they go BOOM yes.

[faint beacon]

Hit him with an overhead and he did this

Yeah this is not intended lmao

[unreal nova]

But is fun though. I kinda wanna vote to keep this bug.

It's entertaining.

[faint beacon]

I think they should up the gibbing system just a smidge

[unreal nova]

Also doesn't like, ruin anything.

Just feels good for those who like it, lul.

[tame lodge]

Before the buffs

Vet could 2 special both gunners

[tall torrent]

still not as good as arb maul

[faint beacon]

well no shit its overtuned

[unreal nova]

Path, is the smaul and shield better than normal smaul?

[tall torrent]

I think they're about equal

shock maul's stagger is not that impressive

u kinda want forceful to reach actually good stagger breakpoints

but arb's best keystone is EO by a pretty wide margin

[faint beacon]

E Stance highlight except forever

[tall torrent]

EO design is peak but some stuff are clearly overtuned

pretty much every duration on EO can use a 3s reduction

[unreal nova]

I run this though.

[tall torrent]

from 8s down to 5s

[unreal nova]

It's DD but better, we know.

I just wanna bully crushers.

[tropic notch]

Hiw do I hit him

[neon current]

EO has to be the most stacked keystone in the game

[elder vessel]

Veteran with jump pack ability

[unkempt river]

really dont like the plasma gun ngl

[unreal nova]

Is what you get when someone made it.

[unkempt river]

what else can i use on havok thats halfway decent?

[unreal nova]

And not the usual devs.

[torn gorge]

helbore

more than halfway decent

[junior grail]

I do like how much snappier the helbore feels when switching

[faint beacon]

I will never understand why like

90% of Arby players tunnel vision

[unkempt river]

which variant is doing numbers rn post buff

[hollow ibex]

III is prob the best

IV is good too

V is prob the worst, but doubt it really matters

[unkempt river]

rad ill start leveling them

probably gonna swap to a power sword too much as i love my shovel

[junior grail]

Peripheral vision is for dogs

[candid bridge]

how many greens are needed to get a weapon from level 1 to 20?

[unreal nova]

Cos dogs deal with shit so they never learn to turn around.

Every time I hear a woosh, doggo is on it already.

I just still dodge spin from muscle memory.

[barren nimbus]

With 3 arbites you don’t even have time to kill gunners they just fall over

[junior grail]

Or you shoot but they got pinned so you miss

[hollow ibex]

a lot

[barren nimbus]

That is super aids as well. They just knock everything over and the powersword has short range

I literally just waste half the game shooting and swinging at air with 3 arbites

[junior grail]

I already lost 3 million since coming back haha

[tall torrent]

helbore, recon, boltpistol, boltgun

[torn gorge]

3a for general purpose and 4 for big targets

[tall torrent]

IIIa and IV
IIIa is faster but doesn't hit nearly as insane breakpoints
IV hits the best breakpoints of all ranged weapons in the game but is unwieldy for reactionary shooting

[tame lodge]

Casual Mk4 W

[tall torrent]

I wish helbore as a whole charged a bit faster than they do rn

[torn gorge]

i wish helbores had sights

[grand perch]

Common PC gamer win

[tropic notch]

Wish ws ranged attack speed made it charge faster

[neon current]

so are helbores worth using now?

[tall torrent]

Charge speed unaffected by attack speed

[tall torrent]

Best gun in the game

[neon current]

which variant

[tall torrent]

3a / 4

[tropic notch]

Das why I said wish

[neon current]

gonna have to give a try

[soft trellis]

Hey, veterans... can you reload your boltgun this fast? I think you can, but, I am curious

[neon current]

plasma brainrot gets boring

and I think I'm over spamming arbi

H40 is like playing auric on him

is the helbore part of guide works for havoc?

[hollow birch]

what blessings yall using on plasgun

im not sure if gets hot is worth

[sharp epoch]

gets hot

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1389717501725904976/Screencast_20250701_172047.mp4?ex=6865a2c8&is=68645148&hm=18d9f8e0d6160d7a4b5f1add13a6ffc4028742a4cb0665d9c99ca6034948388d&

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-meme-astronaut-gif-23926290

[tame lodge]

Why does it have 18 bullets

And it's probably a mix of left and right side reload talents

[soft trellis]

+15% mag talent on arby

[tame lodge]

Oh ok

Arby's

[faint beacon]

Im genuinely convinced Vet is in such a fucking terrible state after watching 3 arbys just bumrush everything and outdo everything I can

feels fucking awful

[sharp epoch]

ogeryn could already do that after the rework im used to it

[tame lodge]

Holy hell servers are dying

[faint beacon]

I'll admit it was easier dealing with ogryns cause of their lack of mobility

Arby? Yeah

[barren nimbus]

wow just power sword stabbed two bursters stacked on eachother

[tame lodge]

Fuck

I forgot mmf

Brb

Video doesn't want to upload

[soft trellis]

Heh, veterans still on top for reload speed possible

[soft trellis]

The vet that reloads their bolter faster than the zealot reloading their autopistol lol

[tame lodge]

Too bad you need like

3 talents

And one of them is behind longshit

[warm schooner]

longshot, the acid test to see who uses the psykhanium

[barren nimbus]

can 4 veterans give 200 gold toughness

[warm schooner]

yes

[nova bloom]

Going insane trying to do on overwatch. How do enemies damage me through my toughness? Sometimes the trash mobs do nothing, sometimes 2dmg out of nowhere.

[hollow ibex]

toughness isn't a perfect shield unless you're at max toughness or have gold toughness

damage will spillover

so you just gotta play very carefully

use voice of command

push a lot

remember to maintain situational awareness

[radiant fjord]

Hey, I'm a new player. How do i do the marked for death penance? If i use volley fire and land a headshot it doesn't count and idk what i did to get 3 out of 4

[tacit sonnet]

What penance is that

[sleek plinth]

@radiant fjord sometimes it's buggy and doesn't always count. The description is exactly what you're supposed to do.

You'll get it pretty easily if you keep trying.

[warm walrus]

achlys or scandar for ps

i forgot

[midnight mortar]

Melee damage will bleed through your toughness based on the % of your total toughness you have at the time of taking damage. If you have 100% toughness, you block 100% of damage. etc.

[tame lodge]

Mk6

[midnight mortar]

So subsequent hits will naturally cause health damage until you've regenerated.

[tame lodge]

Whatever that is

[warm walrus]

yeah its achlys

what's achlys got over ps?

er

scandar/mk 3

[midnight mortar]

The push attack elevates it over the mk3.

Essentially a better moveset that works on both single target and hordes.

[tame lodge]

Better single target damage
Slightly better mobility
Slightly better safety
Slightly better hordes

[warm walrus]

copy

also the new difficulty system

is auric like, harder than old damnation or the same

[hollow ibex]

man trying out vet again

and it's just so overshadowed by literally everything else in the game

even frag grenades aren't anywhere near use useful as they once were

because everything fucking dies before the bleed does anything

[crimson moat]

I'm doing a recon lasgun mk XII build.

+25% unyielding/+5% crit chance/infernus and headhunter

I'm looking to actually get a decent version of the weapon. How do I go about acquiring god rolls?

Or something close to it so I'm not wasting time consecrating

[hollow ibex]

take dumdum instead of headhunter, then you either camp requisitions and hope you get lucky

or got to brunts and buy 10 weapons at a time and hope one of them is the god roll

[crimson moat]

😐

Fair enough, and why dumdum?

And how do you tell if it's a god roll?

[hollow ibex]

dumdum stacks massive damage with burns

[crimson moat]

Still new

[hollow ibex]

the max potential of the weapon looks like this

not the current stats

[tall torrent]

new auric is old auric with slightly higher spawn intensity
old auric is damnation but always with high intensity
so new auric is damnation high intensity with slightly even higher spawn intensity
and new auric high intensity is even higher on top of all that

[crimson moat]

So you basically just want the stats as close to the potential of each one as possible I guess?

Thanks guys

[warm walrus]

sweet

thanks

[tame lodge]

I played a high² intensity game with Clad today

Hab Dreyko

No difference noted

Less than 2k enemies

[tall torrent]

did u rush map

[tame lodge]

I think we went average

[tall torrent]

hab dreyko spawns kinda wack at times

[tame lodge]

Real

[tall torrent]

end event is funny

sometimes it just doesn't spawn elites

[tame lodge]

The scan sections were a snooze fest

[tall torrent]

ya

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/rayleigh-one-piece-crying-gif-7583256620608062087

[tall torrent]

doing melee weapon sections rn

finished DS4

[tame lodge]

Another dueling sword 4 w

[tall torrent]

finished the 2 shock mauls

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/ballin-ball-dunk-basketball-meme-gif-22501240

[tall torrent]

acquired UI icons for all non-ogryn classes' exclusive weapons, except psyker staves

[faint beacon]

got over 100+ Ranged Elites in a Auric² match

you might just be getting a weird map or something but like

the elite clumps are noticeably larger

[tame lodge]

this shit so ass.gif

[loud belfry]

@smoky pivot erm you forgot a chat

[smoky pivot]

Hello zealoters

[crimson moat]

https://imgur.com/a/jaVcOyF <-- Close to decent right? Just consecrate and enhance them to 80 I guess?

[mighty anvil]

me coming back to the vet skill tree

[tacit sonnet]

why do people choose bromentum over sunder for ps?

sunder gives you so much cleave, you can hit like 5 crushers in a single hit

[odd sparrow]

bromentum gives infinite cleave when the condition is triggered and the weakspot damage helps reach 2hit crusher breakpoint

[tacit sonnet]

But it's not infinite cleave, it's cleave for 4 extra targets

[odd sparrow]

no someone has a clip of it here

[tacit sonnet]

And ps is already great at killing chaff meanwhile sunder allows you to destroy hordes while scab ragers maulers and crushers and shit are in there too

[odd sparrow]

sunder cleaving about 11 guys. Brutal killing every single trash mob with mob spawner

but yes sunder is also good

sunder and brutal are both the top options

[atomic void]

It's not infinite cleave
It applies first target DMG to 4 other targets

[tacit sonnet]

I feel like sunder is a bit more useful, I'd rather cleave a lot of anything than absolutely everything but only if there's nothing but chaff

[atomic void]

You don't really need the extra cleave tbh
Brutal momentum + the extra energized hits blessing =

[tacit sonnet]

But most of the waves are mixed anyway

And being able to cleave through like 3 maulers and 2 crushers is great

meanwhile with momentum I will get stuck in the first target

[atomic void]

You'll 2-3 shot a crusher so you can just pick them 1 by 1
Brutal momentum just turns normal hordes into a meme

I'm sure path has the juicy numbers on this if u ask him

[tacit sonnet]

@tall torrent Do you have any juicy numbers? I don't understand why bromentum over sunder for ps

And I wanna know

[tall torrent]

red encourages confirming as many kills as quickly as possible

and brutal momentum does that much better

BM also hits very slightly better breakpoints

[unreal bone]

Chat.. How do we feel about chain axe

I really want to use one.

[normal bay]

IV is a solid weapon, very fun

XII is... There

[tropic notch]

Mk4 chain axe is good

@unreal bone flak, maniac + headtaker , slaughter + defense dump stat

[steady prism]

Chain weaponry has been a Vet staple since its release just about. I say do what you are comfortable with. I personally never liked the Chain weapons because Antax Combat Axe worked for me. I am presently testing the Agni maul with Hellbore. I wanted to check the theory of Falter on the Hellbore.. as it turns out I can 2 shot Crushers without crits

[tribal tangle]

Now make the chainsword not abysmal dogshit

[topaz lance]

sad but true

[untold mulch]

A bug I hope they don't fix, or just tweak a bit

The increase in mutilation with any weapon ahs made the combat "feel" better

[bleak oasis]

Veteran is now a poor man's arbitrator

[steep flower]

MkIV is the way to go; dump stat is mobility (not defence cause your main horde dealing combo is push attack into heavy and defence makes your pushes cost less), unyielding & cara for perks (you don’t really need flak dmg bonus, this weapon chews through flak as it is). Everyone recommends headtaker + slaughterer blessings but the weapon itself ain’t the best at clearing hordes (cause you can dmg up to 4 enemies with one swing even if you cleave through more); i personally use bloodletter (srsly use it) & thunderous (with that you chew through carapace & bleed does more dmg to them cause brittle debuff)

[steep flower]

Arbi is a rich man’s Ogryn

[steep flower]

Stop the 🧢

[tribal tangle]

Don't worry, it'll only take another 9 months to overhaul the tree

[normal bay]

9 months? Ambitious

[tough tiger]

In the grim darkness of 2025, there are still no new vet weapons

[steep flower]

He has enough

[fossil basalt]

Vet still has the most weapons of any class, last I checked

[untold mulch]

Vet also was "promised" weapons soon

Like fucking 7 months ago?

The obese fish as always lying

[topaz lance]

early 2025 they said 🤡

[tough tiger]

I mean its still early

[untold mulch]

I remember calling it cap back then

[tough tiger]

July isnt december so still early

[untold mulch]

but I can't belive is July already and they are sweeping it under the rug

FS keeping the tradition that their word is worth the shit you stepped on the street accidentally

[topaz lance]

yeah any update would be nice; "sorry we focussed on the new class, will release in September" would be enough

[untold mulch]

Basic communication?

[topaz lance]

never

swedes are to introverted

[untold mulch]

To send a blog post they need to sacrifice the astropath to send the message through the warp I assume

[untold mulch]

At this point I just think the higher ups seriously think the community forgets the issue

And while some do, is just a mounting pile of issues that ends up exploding one day or the next

[topaz lance]

Did they ever roll out a more comprehensive adjustment of the boltor aim-model?
I remember they rolled out a band-aid fix and said they'd need more time to really fix it.

[untold mulch]

Wouldn't know, only came back to the game to play the "storyline" update

[tribal tangle]

If you're talking about bolt pistol, its been fixed as far as I know. Normal bolter/boltgun as far as I know is fine now too, its definitely one of the most powerful guns.

[pseudo fiber]

No they never made that fix

Tbf the recoil reduction fixed it enough

[topaz lance]

Meh, it's just a pattern of saying they're gonna do things and then wuietly dtopping them. Also I still donÄt really like how the bolt pistol feels.

[pseudo fiber]

I mean maybe they're looking at a fix and it's more complicated than they thought.

Or its such a baked in issue it'd take a rework of systems to fix it.

Could be a million things

[grand perch]

Immeasurably complex got memed hard but it's hard to grasp how difficult these fixes and changes can be too outsiders and non-devs

[bleak oasis]

Hellguns when

[steep flower]

Never; remember we are prisoners

[bleak oasis]

Rocket launchers when

[steep flower]

Same deal

[bleak oasis]

Would be a nice blitz ngl

Maybe some scoped secondaries to make better use of executioner stance. Or literally just adding a scope mark variant of the vigilant autoguns

Or the ability to penetrate cover during exec stance when using physical rounds

[tribal tangle]

Guys, lets take bets on what happens first

[grand perch]

The fascination with scopes in a horde shooter has always been weird to me

[tribal tangle]

Helbore sight, or heat death of the universe?

[grand perch]

Better sights yes sure. Scopes? Hell naw

[tribal tangle]

Depends on the zoom, if its also decently accurate with hipfire that would cover closer things normally

[normal bay]

Anything, just so long as it doesn't block my entire bloody view of the enemy

[night talon]

you line your ironsights up on the enemy's head and the rest of the helbore blocks their entire body so you can't see what animation they're in

[normal bay]

I find you have to aim above or at the very tip of the head lol

[tame sundial]

Did they say that? I only remember them saying vet won't be left out for too long (in other words vet mains will be left to die, as they should be. Ogrynchads have won the battle of attrition)

[topaz lance]

I guess you're technically right

I was inferring the "early" part

[normal bay]

6 months of the year left

[untold mulch]

Been waiting for them since karking release

[untold mulch]

[open ravine]

We aren't though we are inquisition soldier with a dodgy past

[night talon]

if we have boltguns, we can get hellguns

[open ravine]

Maybe not hellguns as they are backpacks weapons which would be mean infinite ammo and heat control but hotshot las weapons for sure as they just eat more ammo than standard las to be anti armour

[past stratus]

it would be cool if the veteran rework was focused around the different types of weapons they can use, to make some of the less used weapons by other classes viable for Vet

[vague wigeon]

We aren't. In the end of the campaign we are part of inquisitor's warband

Plus plasma and bolters are much more expensive and complicated weapons. If they can give it to rejects, than hellgun won't be the problem

After all, considering how bad plasma is, it's getting dull to play only las-weaoons and bolters

And no, you won't convince me to switch to autoguns

[past stratus]

wait

[vague wigeon]

Tho maybe I'll give them another try myself

[past stratus]

Plasma is still meta

[halcyon sigil]

I did actually come up with an idea like that, based on how the Arbites has a second set of keystone choices to modify the dog, seems only right to have additional keystones to modify your guardsmans best friend!
https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/arbites-has-shown-a-lot-of-weaknesses-in-vet/109831/96

[past stratus]

did I miss a patch or something?

[vague wigeon]

Nothing patched it's just bad, despite the popular opinion

People are over hyped about cleave, tho it lack damage

[past stratus]

oh neat lemme read

[tall torrent]

yea
unchanged

[vague wigeon]

I even had the argument on forum, and it was discovered that plasma has basically same hit points as lasgun with crit/salvo build

[tall torrent]

it's not the best breakpoint gun on vet now

[vague wigeon]

It should be

[tall torrent]

it was

[vague wigeon]

Like, trade useless cleave for raw damage

[tall torrent]

just this patch, helbore buff made it better breakpoints

[vague wigeon]

It's simple

[tall torrent]

it was never lacking in dmg

[vague wigeon]

Plasma should be one-target oneshot machine

[vague wigeon]

It is

[vague wigeon]

Pretty much ranged thammer

[tall torrent]

u call this lacking in dmg?

[vague wigeon]

Boss-deleting gun

[vague wigeon]

3 headshots to kill mutants with maniac perk, 4 without.

Needs a headshot to kill a fucking gunner.

YES, IT LACKS

[past stratus]

those are cool ideas, thanks for posting!

[vague wigeon]

Lasgun can headshot kill gunner

Plasma should be better

[normal bay]

Here we go again

[tall torrent]

this is such an unserious guy lol

[bleak oasis]

Power Cycler + Slaughterer or Brutal Momentum for Power Sword?

[tall torrent]

yea let's just make plasma do >4k with hipfire

why not

[vague wigeon]

Sorry, you can't run away from the truth

[vague wigeon]

Mk 3 or 6?

Tbh just take sunder

[bleak oasis]

I frankly don't know the difference. I've been running around with a chainsword the entire time

[open ravine]

I just hope plasma is still fun and not nerfed into a useless weapon

[bleak oasis]

Power sword seems nice, so I got one to 500

[normal bay]

Your opinion =/= truth

[vague wigeon]

Yep. See no problem especially if it will have no cleave

[vague wigeon]

This quote works both ways

[tall torrent]

what can I say but lol

[normal bay]

But I'm not the one denouncing the most used vet weapon at the highest difficulties

[vague wigeon]

You clearly aren't playing above malice

I mean, yeah, it's good on malice

One shots most enemies

As most of the players claim

[grand perch]

Jesus my man

[normal bay]

I personally don't like plasma because it's a weapon that requires precision but doesn't ads and that fucks with my sens on controller

[grand perch]

If you want to sleepwalk trough missions arbiters are over there

[vague wigeon]

Which kinda show where most of the people are playing

[normal bay]

I'll have you know I'm a sedition gamer

They took my difficulty away

[vague wigeon]

Nah, I'd take zealot first

[unreal nova]

Push l1 l2 push l1 l2.

[vague wigeon]

Tbh still haven't touched arbiter tho bought it on release

[grand perch]

That's rough. Sedition hardest difficulty fr

[vague wigeon]

But as one dude said - Arbiter is basically get but better xD

Pretty much true from what I saw

[atomic void]

he

he's what

[normal bay]

Fatshark dumbing down the game

[forest scaffold]

basically vet but better cyber

[bleak oasis]

Push attacks on the powersword automatically de-energize booo

[atomic void]

ah this meme i see

[forest scaffold]

I dunno

[vague wigeon]

Don't say anything, bc you are clearly aren't maining vet

[forest scaffold]

I haven't played darktide in ages

and I haven't played vet/zealot in ages before that

Only familiar with Oggy and Arbite at this point

I think I have a type

and that type is "Unkillable"

[grand perch]

What a way to rephrase that you have silly takes

[normal bay]

There are specific follow up attacks that keep the combo going. But it's a tight window. Best to look up a vid or ask for the combos in here. I'm not that familiar with them

[atomic void]

wrecking balls

[vague wigeon]

It was auto correct

[forest scaffold]

what perks to use on plasma

[vague wigeon]

I mean, you hate me but I say the truth

[forest scaffold]

I'm too lazy to learn the chart

and I wanna play vet again at some point before I burn out

[normal bay]

Only Syvat020's opinion matters guys, we can close this chat and just let him post

[vague wigeon]

Depends.
+flak
+carapace
+unyielding
+maniac

[atomic void]

mfw

[vague wigeon]

Maniac will let you actually one shot maniacs and 3 tap mutant instead of 4 tap

[forest scaffold]

maniac is needed for flamer oneshots isnt it

[vague wigeon]

Oh, I forgot unarmored

[atomic void]

why are you shooting mutants

[forest scaffold]

me with my arbite shotgun

because the club and shield into mutants sucks ass

[atomic void]

they literally take 3x more melee dmg

[grand perch]

I swear plasma crowd and pswords need for nerf deniers when it used to have like 7 powered swings act exactly the same

[atomic void]

i only shoot if there's a big congaline otherwise waste of ammo

[forest scaffold]

Oh yeah, no, the correct move is to always melee them

but I get into mash m1 spam on the arbite shield lmao

and the light attacks do basically nothing to mutants

[vague wigeon]

Waiting for them to go to melee is the way of... Not really smart people

[forest scaffold]

so I'm just covering for poor play by using my shotgun

exsqueeze moi

[vague wigeon]

Because if you can spray it off from the distance - you are doing it

[forest scaffold]

that's a crazy sentence

[atomic void]

probably takes less time to dodge and time a headshot that 1-2 taps them than wasting 4 shots

[forest scaffold]

Especially if you're a dueling sword nerd that oneshots mutants on a headshot

[vague wigeon]

Play the game first, bruh

[atomic void]

i do, bruh

[forest scaffold]

but even like the combat axe three shots them or something

[vague wigeon]

In only specific situations

[normal bay]

Or you can just wait to one/two shot the mutie with your melee. It's not difficult unless it's a full wave

[forest scaffold]

its not slow to kill them in melee except with certain melee weapons(poor ogryn shield)

[vague wigeon]

It takes 3 PSword swings to kill mutant

3-4 heavy attacks from the knife

[atomic void]

hit da head

[vague wigeon]

And so on

[normal bay]

Yet people still bring it to maels with mutie waves

[halcyon sigil]

I just like my humble infantry lasgun, so ways of promoting weapon build variety is something I like to think about

[forest scaffold]

I'll forgive them if they do work on everything else

[vague wigeon]

Meanwhile you can insta-land 3-4 headshots and just kill them, bruh

[forest scaffold]

like rushing into rager waves and permastunning them

or controlling bulwarks/crushers

I can handle that

[normal bay]

They won't

[forest scaffold]

sadge

my pals

hopefully shield gets buffed at some point

so the light attacks aren't slow as fuck and actually do damage

[vague wigeon]

Unless it's not a full wave AND there's a walk behind you for him to stop OR mutant charges into you, and not your teammate

It's just easier and better to gun them down

[tall torrent]

Unarmored flak

[atomic void]

hey are you familar with this this

[vague wigeon]

Unless you brought revolver or bolt pistol

[atomic void]

I need ammo!
I need ammo!
I need ammo!
I need ammo!
I need ammo!

Player has left the team

[normal bay]

If it targets someone else, that is not my problem lol

[untold mulch]

Yeah on a logistical level, a hellgun is much cheaper than a bolter just by nature of the ammo

[forest scaffold]

I will continue having 25-30 ammo pickups a mission

and there's nothing you can do to stop me

[stuck gorge]

Didn’t add the player complaining about ammo stealing

[vague wigeon]

Bruh, people like you are the reason run are getting over

[normal bay]

They aren't terrible these days. H1 is just that good

[vague wigeon]

And probably the ones I run to revive among 8 crushers

[untold mulch]

• See arbites player with yellow ammo

• Ping ammo box

• They pass it without paying attention

Ah, I truly missed the Darktide quickplay experience

[vague wigeon]

[atomic void]

they're just giving it to you brother

[vague wigeon]

Same with nades

[untold mulch]

Nades are the worst case

[stuck gorge]

I’m gonna be honest I don’t use ammo allay much with Arbites

[forest scaffold]

I'm pretty liberal with my guns on arbite

[atomic void]

u dont need ammo or nades with half arbite builds

[vague wigeon]

Bruh, never ran out of ammo since release

[forest scaffold]

They're very very good

[stuck gorge]

I wish it would show that a player has grenade regen / can’t pick grenades up by default

[forest scaffold]

so its hard to put them down

[grand perch]

Arbites are known for their giving nature
Usually they give lots of beatings

[forest scaffold]

dare I say it

[vague wigeon]

Probably only with recon las

[forest scaffold]

overpowered

[untold mulch]

I got smacked a few matches ago for that

In my defense, Shredder nade for some dumb fuck reason didn't knockdown the crusher

[untold mulch]

True

[atomic void]

some may be lethal

[tame lodge]

Yeah they are

[untold mulch]

I never go otu without nade regen

the MAKE SPACE potential of a shredder nade is so comfy

[vague wigeon]

But about does

[untold mulch]

?

[vague wigeon]

Shout*

Auto correct

[tame lodge]

Showed up one day asking for plasma to 1 shot (Max 2 ) enemies

[untold mulch]

I use infiltrate sadly

Shout is boring

[tame lodge]

Showed them exactly that

[untold mulch]

For revival I go stealth

Underthrow a grenade and then revive

[vague wigeon]

Same. But tbh I literally don't know how to use it

[normal bay]

But... But... You needed a headshot!!

[vague wigeon]

I happened to end several runs without pressing it even once

[untold mulch]

I use it as a panic button or strategical I need to get THERE yesterday

Doing objectives

supporting the team

[vague wigeon]

I use it mostly for revives and toughness regeneration

Oh, and sprint speed, yeah

[untold mulch]

The minigame terminal objectives are basically trivialized with infiltrate

Pop it, start the minigame

you should be able to be finishing it by the time it runs out

[vague wigeon]

Knife + bolt pistol + move aura + move speed node

WEEEEEE

Fast as fuck boi

[untold mulch]

mhmm

Also personally allows stupid aggresive play

you can overcommit

and with a quick F you don't have to pay that check

[vague wigeon]

Tbh I tend to go super-aggresive and die because of this

Way too used to slower weapons

[untold mulch]

Btw in case you didn't notice, underthrowing a nade doesn't break stealth, idk how much common knowledge it is

So is grenadier time

[vague wigeon]

I didn't know that

[untold mulch]

yeah the low throw doesn't pops you out of stealth, so you can freely spam all nades

[vague wigeon]

Btw is it just me or weapon spec is too clunky to use?

[untold mulch]

I tried yesterday and hated it

Went back to focus target

[vague wigeon]

I kinda try to make it work for toughness and bolt-pistil reload

But i kinda hate how it is designed

Hate forceful switching

[untold mulch]

The timer basically forces you to rotate your weapons in a strict time limit if you want to "optimize it"

[vague wigeon]

Swing-swing-swing-q-shot-q-swing...

MOMMY, LOOK, I'M SALTSPYRE

[untold mulch]

Focus Target is the onyl keystone that passes any amount of vibecheck in design IMO

of Veteran

Sometimes I wonder what the tree looked like when it was "weapon specific" made

[past stratus]

I don't like focus target

[untold mulch]

before they redid it last hour

[vague wigeon]

Since I was trying to remake my release vet - I went exe stance + marksman focus

[untold mulch]

Why in particular?

[halcyon sigil]

i think the best way to think about it is less as a thing you have to swap constantly for uptime and more a burst of extra power when you switch targets to help you clear faster, either to get back to what youre doing or to get control of the situation before you settle into your usual combat rhythm

[untold mulch]

I can see it if you don0t like tagging

[vague wigeon]

Kinda not bad, but exe kinda lacks power

[untold mulch]

I read somewhere that a node to make Exec have either more cleave or rending (mutually exclusive nodes) would be kinda cool

[halcyon sigil]

Executioners stance is more about highlighting specials and shilouetting their heads for me lmao

[past stratus]

tagging is kind of a need because a lot of times it is hard to aim without the highlight so I'm constantly tagging things. I feel like because of that I can never properly manage the Focus Target stacks. And it bothers me

[normal bay]

Or just endlessly swap for double barrel memes

[vague wigeon]

I miss ranged damage reduction and bigger damage buffs.

MF gives enough. damage but maintaining it is pretty much a chore too

[untold mulch]

Yeah thats fair, but IMO still kinda dumbly designed

Then you have like Zealot that as long as someone is killing has a flat practically permanent crit boost

[nova jacinth]

guys is it a skill issue or is the combat knife really awkward for hordes. ik people use it on havoc so it cant be as bad as it feels

[atomic void]

its one of the most fun keystones in the game tho

cause its consistent

[untold mulch]

Honestly, with the node that restores stamina and toughness

The spam is great as a team support role

[past stratus]

I like Weapon Spec, I just wish the buffs would last longer. There is no reason for it to be so punishing.

[untold mulch]

you always go back to 2 stacks I believe

[vague wigeon]

Btw it would cool if you could apply focus target with double click, like with arbiter and his dog

[atomic void]

zealot is a different story all together cause the class is built around building up dmg overtime

[untold mulch]

so you ALWAYS AT LEAST are restoring 10% toughness on coherency

[stable socket]

back when auric was the highest difficulty, rashad + revolver went pretty crazy with weapon spec because you never needed to reload, you would horde clear and kill elites with the axe and insta delete every specialist/gunner with guaranteed revolver crits, then immediately go back to attacking... but now that the revolver can't hit breakpoints in havoc it's tougher to play

[vague wigeon]

Like 1 click is a usual tag and two clicks is a focus target

[untold mulch]

and you go full squad lead tagging important targets

[halcyon sigil]

i use combat knife, iirc it got nerfed a while ago and doesnt control hordes nearly as well as it used to, but you still can dodge enough to weave through them and lay into them

[past stratus]

Yeah it is a good keystone, I just don't like how it plays and it is mostly a me thing.

[untold mulch]

Tbf the main issue rn is that using Exec stance is summon pox on your back

[untold mulch]

Completely fair

[vague wigeon]

I wonder: Does fire team aura damage bonus stack?

[untold mulch]

Wea Spec?

[vague wigeon]

Like, would you get +15% damage if you have 3 vets?

[past stratus]

Can we talk about why the ranged part of Weapon Spec is such a small window? Why is it such a small window? It feels like Fatshark is so stingy with Veteran, in any other class that buff would last until used and no one would bat an eye.

[tame lodge]

Yes

[atomic void]

yes

[tame lodge]

But you spam push attacks on hordes

[halcyon sigil]

id imagine the idea was its for quickly swapping to pick an elite out of a crowd and then getting right back to getting stuck in, i agree its awkwardly implemented but i play like that so i get the idea

[tame lodge]

[vague wigeon]

This is why I hated making weapon spec penance

[untold mulch]

Auras don't stack

[vague wigeon]

Speaking of combat knife...

How do you guys use its punch?

[untold mulch]

Gotta agree to disagree

[halcyon sigil]

alt fire, same button as toggling flashlight

[untold mulch]

If it was until use it would feel much better

the time limit is just a mess IMO

[past stratus]

Yeah it is and I like the gameplay and theme of it. I just don't know why it is so punishing. It's not even that good, compared to anything else we have in the game with other classes. It feels like Fatshark requires out of the Veteran a level of skill that none of the other class do.

[tame lodge]

I don't
Push Attack spam ad infinitum

[vague wigeon]

I remember using it to skip first heavy on the knife with heavy swings

To go to overhead

But now we have knife with solo-targer heavies only

[past stratus]

it is just an arbitrary skill check, for a mediocre buff. I just don't get it

[vague wigeon]

So I wonder is it has any use at all

[vague wigeon]

Same

[untold mulch]

The karking guard has to make do with what we are given

canon experience

[halcyon sigil]

yeah, weapon specialist is one of the better vet keystones, but the vet tree is just really bland especially in contrast to the reworked and new arbites trees

[past stratus]

I love the class and I still main it but sometimes I look at other classes and I'm like "why are they allowed to be brain dead?"

[untold mulch]

When I play Zealot I just rroll my face on the keyboard and OH LOOK AT TAHT MISSION DONE

[cloud thunder]

Vet and zealot are getting reworked anyways

[vague wigeon]

Tbh vet tree is such a joke

I mean, yeah, some stat tax nodes are good

[tame lodge]

The punch is supposedly good stagger though

[vague wigeon]

+15% melee damage is good

[untold mulch]

Again I ask

I wonder how the old tree looked like with weapon specific or such talents

[vague wigeon]

+10% ranged damage is good

[halcyon sigil]

as it is, i use weapon specialist more for the melee perks, paired with agile engagement to give it some actual oomph and always prepared to make sure I never have to worry about exe stance with an empty mag lmao

[vague wigeon]

But damn, you compare it to abrites and just laugh

[untold mulch]

I assume yeah WS is better as a melee-centric vet

pop your gun

shoot one enemy

get a buff to your melee

[halcyon sigil]

the dogs took my job, got a few games with the classic team lineup yesterday and suddenly i felt useful again lol

[tall torrent]

no

[vague wigeon]

I kinda have to sacrifice agile engagement to get toughness of weapon spec proc

[untold mulch]

I haven't looked at most of the arbiter tree

Idk if i should

probably would get mad if I do

[past stratus]

I tend to almost always have WS just because the pathway to it has Desperado and Trench Fighter and those are absolutely needed for melee as Vet to even work. WS makes it a little better and with the way the game plays in Auric or higher, you have to melee all the time

[vague wigeon]

Vet tree:
Tax node - talent - talent - tax node.

Arbiter: Tax node - talent -talent - talent - talent - talent - talent - talent

[untold mulch]

"I got an enemy right on my sig---" - dog pounces on it

[untold mulch]

fucking lovely

[vague wigeon]

You should really check it

[untold mulch]

get taxed

Tax without representation smh

I am dropping the tea on the harbor

[halcyon sigil]

i did that but ive found other toughness sources more reliable, since when things get desperate im usually running around blocking and dodging and not having space to kill or swap weapons

[vague wigeon]

I also use serrated blade so... Yeah

Since I run mercy killer

And +30% weak so damage node

[untold mulch]

I run the shovel straight up

Recon is a pain to deal with crushers, so the pickaxe mode is a lifesaver

2 horde blessings and I can just smack around the horde

[vague wigeon]

Depending on recon

[halcyon sigil]

ah yeah, i used to do that until i reworked my kit yesterday, dropped mercy and serrated and swapped my knife to uncanny and precog instead

[vague wigeon]

T4 infernal kinda melts them

[untold mulch]

They buffed infernal?

[halcyon sigil]

you dodge so often with the knife that precog basically gets constant uptime in a horde lol

[untold mulch]

I remember the stacks being kinda shit

[past stratus]

yeah I feel like Recon does ok against crushers, at least compared to other guns

[vague wigeon]

It melts crusher after I shoot 1/4 of his health

But I also had copied pretty specific no-keystone build

[untold mulch]

Maybe I am expecting too much of it

[vague wigeon]

With shout

[untold mulch]

I really

really need a hellgun

[vague wigeon]

And also I abuse onslaught with brittleness

It kinda buffs recon

[untold mulch]

yeah onslaught is pretty good with the light Recon

[vague wigeon]

You can check this build on YouTube

[untold mulch]

I pass

I don't like copying builds

[tall torrent]

Why do u need to use gun to kill crusher in the first place

[vague wigeon]

Yobarion assault trooper

[vague wigeon]

I just liked it

[untold mulch]

In case your melee isn't great vs crushers

If I use Chainsword

I am not fighting a 4 Crusher stack

no fucking way

[tall torrent]

Then take a melee that does good carapace damage

[untold mulch]

🤦‍♂️

[vague wigeon]

Because you're a ranged class and it's not your job to get your hands dirty

Let melee peasants to do this

[past stratus]

idk, but when I was leveling the Recon I do remember using it on Crushers and being like "huh, not bad". I'm a helbore dude so I use my gun on everything, so whenever I'm leveling weapons I always experiment

[tall torrent]

Vet hasn’t been the ranged class for like 1y+ at this point

[untold mulch]

I need to try out the helbore

the draw speed buff may finally stop making me want to stab myself

[vague wigeon]

I still consider him as such. And you won't change my mind

[past stratus]

Helbore is really fun but nowadays I can't play it. The time it takes me to charge a shot there is already a furry missile(dog) on the enemy I'm aiming at

[vague wigeon]

I mean, yeah, he can be hybrid

Vet can adapt

[tall torrent]

That’s ok
I wasn’t planning to change ur mind, just stating facts lol

[untold mulch]

Yeah, Veteran entire appeal visual wise was I am the gun guy

now that fatshark has shat the bed with class balance is another story entirely

[halcyon sigil]

im still a ranged anti specialist specialist! i just have to take a bunch of side jobs to pay rent

[vague wigeon]

But ranged is still vet's main point

[untold mulch]

This basically

[vague wigeon]

Dis

[untold mulch]

The vet economy is in shambles

[tall torrent]

So why do u need a gun to kill crushers I don’t get it

[past stratus]

I think the run and gun, pistol wielding Vet is pretty fun. That's what I've been playing

[halcyon sigil]

oh thats not me, infantry lasgun could never... I use a knife

[past stratus]

fits the fast pace of the game better than trying to snipe things

[tall torrent]

Pretty much just this

[untold mulch]

I hipfire my recon like I am playing Doom

Wish Csword was a bit better vs crushers so I can double down on doom 2016 gameplay

or maybe I need to rethink the blessings, haven't checked in a while

[past stratus]

yeah it's fun, I still have to level the revolver but I'm looking forward to it. I just finished leveling the Bolter Pistol and that was so much fun

[tall torrent]

All 4 out of the 4 good melee weapons on veteran are good vs crushers

[vague wigeon]

Based, tho I don't always hipfire

[tall torrent]

I’m not quite sure why ranged anti-carapace is ever smth particularly worth investing in on veteran

Onslaught is a 3 point spec that doesn’t matter for vast majority of cases

[untold mulch]

yeah, same, the light recon has too much spread for anything further than 20m or so

The heavy one though, can be hipfired no matter what

[vague wigeon]

It's the way of the peasants.

We are guardmen. We point and shoot until it dies.

[untold mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/imperial-guard-cat-warhammer40k-gif-23254825

[vague wigeon]

Even with peashooters

[untold mulch]

The true guard experience

[past stratus]

I kind of wish the Infantry Lasgun was stronger

[vague wigeon]

Kinds same

I mean, it's good

I still run sometimes

[untold mulch]

The bouncy recoil is a deal breaker

[vague wigeon]

But I have to take PSword to deal with hordes and carapaces

[past stratus]

I mean it should be stronger in the hands of a Veteran Guardsmen, it's iconic.

[halcyon sigil]

I wish veteran had something in their tree that let them buff their weapons

[untold mulch]

Light ILas should have been burst to save the players from carpal syndrome

[untold mulch]

Mhmm

[vague wigeon]

I mean it is already stronger, but it kinda needs more

I wish my fav mk12 was the kinda again

Sweet days when it was THE workhorse

[tame lodge]

Actually

[past stratus]

yeah I mean, I guess that was supposed to be the one that saves ammo if you crit with lasguns. But again Fatshark is always so stingy with Vet. It could easily be a straight up buff to las weapons on top of the ammo saving mechanic. But no...

[untold mulch]

stil lno clue why is lasgun specific

It reeks of the old tree, and they didn't know what to do so they slapped it

[past stratus]

I mean lasguns are iconic Astra Militarum weaponry, so I get it

but why isn't it more?

Why only ammo saving?

[nova jacinth]

fire down range penance 97/100 im gonna loose it

[past stratus]

Arbiter has talents that by just existing they get some insane % damage buffs or damage reduction. Just by being there, not even a mechanic or weapon tied to it

[tame lodge]

Couldn't find the video of crusher 2 shot Infantry Lasgun

Tbh I didn't even search for it

[vague wigeon]

I wonder under what drugs you can do it

2 shot crusher with ilas

I remember hellebore doing it

[tame lodge]

Marksman Focus

[vague wigeon]

But it needs MF stacks

But ilas?

[past stratus]

MMF 😔

[untold mulch]

• Look at arbiter tree

[past stratus]

imagine if it was a real keystone...

[untold mulch]

WHERE IS THE TAX

WHY ARBITER HAS NO TAX

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[tame lodge]

It has

2 random ahh 25 toughness

[vague wigeon]

Money is the tax

[untold mulch]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS

WHAT THE KARK

[open ravine]

BECAUSE they have finally learnt something

[normal bay]

They are all good nodes too

[vague wigeon]

Tbh always when I see Marksman's focus shortened as MF I read it like Samuel L. Jackson

MOTHERFUCKA

[untold mulch]

I am shoving the barrel of my lasgun on my head

Brb, I am done

[vague wigeon]

I TOLD YOU

[halcyon sigil]

Regarding tree revisions to promote build weapon variety, I might as well repost my idea here to get some feedback, basically a mid tree keystone choice (in addition to the end of tree keystones like how the arbites has an extra keystone choice for their dog)

• Eagle Eye - First shot in a salvo auto crits on weakspot hit
  Meant to help lean into precision weapons to help vets hit breakpoints without RNG while still rewarding good marksmanship.

  • Tied to salvo to prevent it being disproportionately effective for guns that rely on volume
  • Can be balanced by adjusting the salvo reset on a per gun basis

• Extended Magazine - positive multiplier to magazine size (rounding up i guess?)
  Meant to be a more middle of the road option, has value both for bullet hoses and low capacity heavy hitters.

• Being a mag size multiplier its impact should be proportional across all weapons

• Could alternatively be a reload speed buff

• Alternatively could inflict impact instead (stagger)

• Overcharged Ammo - Overkill damage converted into suppression % AOE localised on target
  Meant to synergise well with heavy hitters to turn the wasted extra damage into a feature by playing into the suppression system, used right it should help the bolter and plasma make space to reload as part of the weapon system

  • Because realistically a bunch of your buddies getting overkilled into a fine mist by bolter or plasma should give most people reason to hesitate
  • Can be balanced by tuning damage to suppression ratio
  • Alternatively could inflict impact instead (stagger)

[untold mulch]

Jesus fucking christ what the fuck is this tree

[vague wigeon]

Also look how can you skip the first 3 keystone via these nodes

[tall torrent]

Besides extended mag, all of these are exceptionally difficult to implement on the code level and can almost immediately be disregarded

[untold mulch]

I need alcohol to read this tree and I don't even drink

[vague wigeon]

I want mechanics class that will be focused on weapon perks and blessings. Like having +1 perk/blessings slot and talents that ramp up perk/blessings power

[open ravine]

Those aren't even tax they are sizable and useful

[vague wigeon]

They have max damage limiter talent

Like, literally

[untold mulch]

I was expecting it to be somewhat a joke

but no

Fucking hell

[halcyon sigil]

you sure? first one works off salvo which is already a feature, third one works off overkill damage which is atleast a stat that is already tracked, and suppression/impact which are also existing functions

[vague wigeon]

You can take more than X damage per 1 hit

[untold mulch]

thats it

I am going to Nurgle

THey have Hellguns

I give up

[vague wigeon]

[past stratus]

I think what really radicalized me with Arbites is that I was watching ChocoB do Havoc 40s on one, he'd one shot a shotgunner with a Shield + mace Heavy then instantly swap to the Shield Pistol and one shot a Sniper and almost in the same motion swap back to the mace. While I'm out here with weapons that take three business days to swap and cannot one shot anything.

[tall torrent]

Crit override on weakspot hit with salvo condition is such a lengthy string of conditions that it’s more executable in like a CRPG game than darktide

[past stratus]

all of that while being as tanky as an Ogryn

[scenic basin]

How does Crucian Roulette interact Always Prepared Keystone modifier? (the one that resotres ammo to the clip)

[untold mulch]

the 42nd millenium is truly a grim dark time

[halcyon sigil]

doesnt have to be crit override, can be implemented as +100% crit, same result

[open ravine]

Yeah swap speed on the shield option are crazy quick

[tall torrent]

Then the problem is that even if it’s implemented, it’s not remotely good enough

[past stratus]

it is straight up unfair

[tall torrent]

Salvo based bonuses are inherently pretty limiting

[untold mulch]

THE PATHING OF THEIR 25% AMMO IS LITERALLY THERE FREE

I am legitimally tweaking lads

[open ravine]

Yeah and they tell us hellbore needs to be long because of it being weighty but the shield nah that stuff is as light as a feather

[tall torrent]

And guaranteeing crit is not such a massive improvement towards breakpoints

[halcyon sigil]

depends on what gun youre using, id use it for my infantry lasgun to ensure it pops heads no questions asked, just pair it with the right perk (Deadly accurate comes to mind)

I can also imagine people pairing it with a heavy hitter for stupid boss weakspot damage because people do stuff like that for fun

[past stratus]

Add that on top of the dog being an absolutely broken mechanic, it is just way too much

[tall torrent]

Even with deadly accurate you’d need pretty substantial additional talents to increase damage to help it reach a 1 tap on gunners and flamers

[vague wigeon]

Mags attached with duct tape.

Your every second reload is 100% faster.

Your reload is 100% faster but can be triggered only once fer 30 secs

[open ravine]

Arbites are in a good spot but because zealot and vet are in such bad spots people think they are op

[halcyon sigil]

... i already do one tap in executioners stance, and thats not a massive buff over my usual damage

[vague wigeon]

I had same reaction

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1278540580976328790/1385858684889989243/Screenshot_20250621_014641.png?ex=6866197a&is=6864c7fa&hm=d38059c7bf2f7d1d28beb5b3b5882255e35a5f0969d1bca27e04cd245b411b76&

IX inf las breakpoints

Quite a bit off

[untold mulch]

I am speechless

[vague wigeon]

Arbites is vet but better

[tall torrent]

You still need substantial spec

[past stratus]

idk, I wouldn't mind Arbites being strong if it wasn't so disruptive to my favorite playstyle. I cannot play helbore as long as Arbites dogs are still homing super sonic missiles. Because it makes picking up my targets ten times harder. Most of the time I'm wasting time aiming and charging a shot because the damn dog will knock down the target and make me waste it

[tall torrent]

And the other issue is, relying on a lengthy salvo reset time for a guaranteed crit so u may crit-weakspot one shot

Is ultimately just not that impressive that it’s worth 1 point

You can’t be designing talents just for 1-2 guns

[normal bay]

It's fine on vet tbh. You always want the talents on either side.

Trench fighter though

[tall torrent]

I can send you what I sent to a playtester for vet talent change ideas

[runic hinge]

So true I hate it

[halcyon sigil]

wish i could post screenshots because my damage table for my IX is literally only 100 or so dmg below those breakpoints, and salvo actually resets only a fraction slower than the fastest i can tap fire the gun, +100% crit damage with a class based +100% crit rate on weakspot hits for first shot in salvo would absolutely be hitting breakpoints on headshots consistently

[bleak oasis]

Helbore blessings and perks?

[open ravine]

My problem is the other classes get amazing perks and they don't get nerfed but vet had a few but most were nerfed like the no ammo on crit or golden armour stacking

[tall torrent]

Yes
Except it’s just not that worth
And you’re not thinking about havoc’s scaling either with this design

You can push crit-weakspot 1 tap in base game then ur breakpoints get fked in havoc

[grand perch]

Revolver sends his regards

[untold mulch]

Remember when Recon got perfect synergy with Shocktrooper

And was INSTANTLY smacked in the first month

[past stratus]

Veteran gets skill taxed too, every single nice thing Veteran has is tied to some mechanic that we need to work around. The few talents we have that are just nice and easy to use become the only way to go. Which is boring in the long run

[open ravine]

Wait there is one tax node. The 20% rending on crit and that is because it does nothing at all actually

[open ravine]

Vet is too generic and should be made interesting

[past stratus]

I don't know about that, I think Veteran is pretty good in terms of theme and fantasy. It is just weak, because devs seem unwilling to give them nice things that don't have some sort of caveat. Like why is "For the Emperor" only 5s? Like, what is the design philosophy behind it?

It is just shit for the sake of being shit

[untold mulch]

Fuck us, thats why

[open ravine]

Vet doesn't really buff his focuses like the other classes do

[past stratus]

Again, no other class gets this stingy design where everything is small and tight framed.

[open ravine]

Zealot does

[past stratus]

you get a 10% damage buff but only 5s

like wth

[open ravine]

Zealot is also in a pretty bad spot in terms of bloat and small amount of actually viable builds

[past stratus]

Zealot is still very good at what it is designed to do I feel

[pseudo fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/chalmers-simpsons-may-i-see-it-talking-gif-11870196

[halcyon sigil]

infantry lasgun is tap fire weapon, where hitting headshots is most effective to reward good marksmanship, all this trait would do with it is ensure it would oneshot headshot any human sized target not wearing carapace which i think is as much as you can hope to ask it to do and still be balanced

[tall torrent]

Sure

[tame lodge]

Surgical + Falter/Hotshot/Weight of Fire

[bleak oasis]

Perks?

[tall torrent]

@pseudo fiber

[tacit sonnet]

ah, sweet, a virus

Let me download it

[tall torrent]

Why not make a talent that gives it enough damage where it can 1 tap on weakspot hit regardless of crit

[halcyon sigil]

... it does, the whole point is every weakspot hit is a crit, with all the additional shenangians that allows

being tied to salvo is simply just to prevent it going off the rails with anything that just hoses down a general direction and hits weakspots by accident

[open ravine]

Doesn't the left keystone do that

With hellbore and other high damage weapons

[tall torrent]

But not every weakspot hit is a crit? You’re still dependent on salvo mechanic and are forced to slow down firing to benefit

Did you forget about havoc’s health pool boost

[tall torrent]

Helbore IV can 1 tap without crit in havoc scaling rn

Helbore IIIa can 1 tap with crit weakspot in havoc scaling

They’re the highest breakpoint weapons currently

[tame lodge]

Casual Helbore W

As always

[halcyon sigil]

take the IX with the opening salvo perk into the psykanium, as far as im concerned i get full benefit from its +20% damage buff firing as fast as i could reasonably do aimed shots beyond point blank range, like its just free +20% damage i wish i had taken sooner

like sure i dont benefit when magdumping a horde of ragers while backpedaling, but im not exactly aiming for the head in that situation anyway

[normal bay]

Anything you guys would change for a crit Laspistol X build? Without committing to deadshot or MMF

[tall torrent]

You said this was for a talent
Did you perhaps consider the consequences this talent would have for other weapons

[past stratus]

i would go right side instead of middle. One motion is very important

[tall torrent]

Cuz to me it looks like u looked at 1-2 guns and decided this is good enough

[past stratus]

Deadshot is not good

[halcyon sigil]

it would be a secondary keystone, where you pick one of 3, where i tried to make sure atleast 2 keystones would be theoretically viable for each gun

[vague wigeon]

The red talent in line with shock trooper and exe stance

[normal bay]

If you stack stamina it can work

Just a pain

[tall torrent]

I don’t get why veteran needs smth like secondary keystone

[heavy rover]

Personally I like running surgical and armourbane

[tall torrent]

Is this supposed to be a copy of Arbites’ dog keystone nodes?

[past stratus]

why does Deadshot even suck you dry also baffles me, another Veteran skill tax that exists for the sake of existing. The damage buff is not even that good

[pseudo fiber]

I like the MMF changes a lot

[long dove]

is Exec stance with Autogun viable in Auric?

[pseudo fiber]

Yes

[vague wigeon]

Yep

But lasgun is better

[halcyon sigil]

its based on the idea yeah, one of vets problems imo is that a lot of their weapons dont really feel all that different from when in the hands of other classes, i wanted to suggest something that lets you pick a modifier that synergizes with your weapon to let it do things only a vet can do with it

[faint beacon]

Youll just get outdone by Arby players cause they can shit out damage without thinking

[tall torrent]

No offense but I think you could be significantly more creative with keystone ideas than that

[long dove]

I know lasgun is better

[tall torrent]

You can look at what I posted above

The “dumb ideas” file

[halcyon sigil]

your first compaint was that it would be too hard to implement?

[bitter turtle]

covering fire looks pretty nutty

if theres no icd then isnt any automatic going to trigger it rapidly being per hit

[tall torrent]

Yea, a crit override that’s salvo dependent when the class has recoil modifiers is a nightmare for code

It’s much more executable as a blessing, not as a talent

And it seemed like you only looked at 1-2 guns when coming up with that idea, completely disregarding the other weapons

[tame lodge]

Can't proc on yourself

[tall torrent]

Because if that was a real talent congratulations u made helbore the strongest gun in the game

[long dove]

btw is the Vraks or Columnus autogun better?

[tall torrent]

No surgical needed

Infinite crit

[normal bay]

Not that big a deal for Laspistol (I know, I said the wrong weapon). Hard finding space for close order drill if I do.

[tall torrent]

You also made revolver significantly more busted than it already is

[faint beacon]

Instantaneous abysmal dog shit

[tall torrent]

No crit blessing needed you just take that and crit 24/7

[bitter turtle]

i meant the buffed one in the doc lol

well, it still cant trigger on self

but

[tall torrent]

I forgot to add ICD

[bitter turtle]

5% toughness per hit for your team

on a rapid fire gun

[past stratus]

One motion is necessary not for your guns, but for your grenades. In that case

[bitter turtle]

[tall torrent]

Can trigger on self

[bitter turtle]

oh

oh i misread that

that would be even funnier with no icd

[steep flower]

Everything is if you are good enough

[tame lodge]

Vraks5

Columnus is the old name for it

[pseudo fiber]

Yoo you're back again

[tall torrent]

I realized that problem after I submitted it to playtester

[bitter turtle]

i like the free stims

[normal bay]

I didn't even realise it worked on grenades

[bitter turtle]

on field improv

that's fun

[tall torrent]

I had more wilder ideas after I submitted

[bitter turtle]

hi (if you mean me)

[pseudo fiber]

I do!

Hello!

[long dove]

so the Mk V not the Mk VIII?

[untold mulch]

Free stimms would be awesome tbh

[past stratus]

yeah I learned it recently, and realized that pulling out a grenade feels like shit without it

[bitter turtle]

[faint beacon]

Stimm every 60 seconds