veteran-class

[tall torrent]

Rashad better for lone wolf
Arbites maul doesn’t have as much reliance on attack speed or specific damage breakpoints

[split grove]

ok so bromentum headtaker and flakiac?

[tall torrent]

Unarmored carapace

For Rashad

[split grove]

i c

[tall torrent]

And for Arbites maul, unyielding carapace

[split grove]

ok

[void dragon]

What blessings are better for each Helbore mk in your opinion?

[tall torrent]

Falter is pretty good

I don’t like WoF as much because u have to stay firing to get value out of it

If you’re just firing a few shots at a time then stopping (maybe going into melee) then it doesn’t have that much value

[faint beacon]

Tragically having to consider Infernus for havoc cause Pus Hardened has returned

[tall torrent]

Just skip pus missions lol

[void dragon]

are there changes for some of the Mks? or all want the same blessings?

[faint beacon]

Rampaging + Pus Hardened probably being the biggest “Fuck you” to Vet I’ve seen lmao

[tall torrent]

They’re all about the same in terms of blessings

Mainly because you don’t rly have that many good choices

[void dragon]

would you put Hotshot on the mk 5 for example?

[tall torrent]

It’s ok

But

I don’t wanna use tier1 blessing cuz of the bug

[true jackal]

more funni then good as far as I can tell

but it is really funni

[void dragon]

there is a bug on the tier 1? that's news to me

i take tier 4 is not good?

[tall torrent]

Tier1 is better than tier4 for hotshot

Tier1 is -80% mass

As in

5x effective cleave

[void dragon]

noted, time to never use hotshot then, will see between WoF and Falter then, thanks

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent on ws I just dropped always prepared for no ammo use on las crit

[tall torrent]

Yea helbore 3 can be played with WS

It works

[sleek garden]

is mk5 the lightest one

[willow tendon]

the fastest charge

[tropic notch]

Thinking about changing hotshot to Inferus

[sleek garden]

i just love the sound of the green helbore

[manic umbra]

Returning player here from pre-havoc days looking to go back and go for havoc, used to run melee vet with the caxe and revolver ala azrael’s builds. These still viable on H40?

[grand perch]

not enough RoF to be worth it

[tropic notch]

Huh

[hollow ibex]

Yeah I Infernus would be a weird pick on helbore

[tropic notch]

Yeah just tested it

Sad day

[red robin]

Damn

[barren nimbus]

Its actually insane that everyone in havoc is just running an auto clicker now, theyve really made massive improvements to the game\

[red robin]

I was wondering what unique weapons vet has

And I remembered the switch shovels

[sudden cedar]

Not everyone.

[red robin]

What can they do to buff those in a better spot

[tame lodge]

Revolver not enough ammo for havoc 40

[manic umbra]

hmm so I’m guessing survivalist is mandatory then as well?

[red robin]

What’s the science on falter?

[manic umbra]

Been seeing the hellbore mark3a looks to be the new meta, can it run decently without fully loaded and shock trooper? need the points for other nodes

and is Caxe still top tier or is psword most viable for h40

[wild stratus]

MK3a better now than the MK5 ?

[torn gorge]

caxe still working, revolver is missing breakpoints for h40

[hollow ibex]

Psword is king atm

[manic umbra]

hate how clunky it is … but DS still good too I guess?

Does it look like it’s gonna get nerfed hard

[sudden cedar]

The Duelling Sword is good yes. But there is nothing that forces you to use it.

[sleek garden]

tried to use shovel and helbore and had one of the worst performing games in a long time

[sudden cedar]

Does make sense if you haven't used those weapons and that playstile

[sleek garden]

is it really true hot shot t1 is the best version

im about to put it on

[sleek garden]

i normally use the infantry lasgun but without ghost i find myself getting slaughtered by shooters if im mid horde

and i always use the devils claw to instakill ragers but with the shovel its much tougher

[sudden cedar]

To be expected i would say

[sleek garden]

my strategy is to shovel poke ragers then hit them with heavies until they fall over

but every time i push and poke i get hit

i keep getting hurt by little dudes its embarrasing

[tame lodge]

Yes

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent does ws affect hellbore charge speed?

[manic badger]

I don’t think fire rate is linked to helbore charge apeed

[sleek garden]

so weird

okay

[tall torrent]

No

[tall torrent]

U can stagger things better

[tall torrent]

Not worth

[bold sierra]

I love Devil's Claw sword

H40 modifier ragers with Final Toll

I run Dclaw with Helbore in H40 and it's honestly great

[grand perch]

thats not very fast

[bold sierra]

I mean, that's pretty decently fast lol, plus it's very safe

[bold sierra]

another one cuz why not

[serene bough]

does H40 helbore still require exe stance

[bold sierra]

it's pure defense that deals pretty good dmg

[serene bough]

or can you use w/ shout

[bold sierra]

you could always do both, still the same

exec is higher skill ceiling tho ofc

[tame lodge]

Mostly helped with Helbys draw speed

[manic umbra]

Is an agile engagement/WS melee focused build like your pre H40 ones still optimal or a more balanced one with survivalist necessary for havoc

[tame lodge]

[flint umbra]

Good day, can someone explain to me what!s the point of the Braced Autogun ?

[plain osprey]

No offense to all veterans, but i enjoy the infantry autogun more on arbites now.

[bold sierra]

toughness regen, horde clear

[flint umbra]

ah so not really a specialist killing machine

[bold sierra]

I mean you can use it for that, but sniper and grenadiers from distance gonna be a bit tough

[bright cliff]

a good horde clear option when you're using melee like the knife

I like to use it with the duck and dive stripped down combo

[flint umbra]

interesting, thank you

[tropic notch]

Really happy with the hellbore changes tbh I’ll probably take off survivalist

Im not consuming any ammo lol

[tall torrent]

No

[serene bough]

nice

may try using then

[tall torrent]

U can even run IIIa with weapon specialist

It kinda works

Wouldn’t do that with IV tho

[serene bough]

got an example build?

if you already posted i can scroll up later and find

[manic umbra]

Trying to run a melee focused build with IIIa on the side

[hollow ibex]

Crazy to think that helbore can do WS

[manic umbra]

Getting annoyed at how easy arbites just kill everything before my charge up finishes

Jarring coming from a revolver main

[hollow ibex]

The stagger class does not make for good team synergies with a precision marksman build

[manic umbra]

Hell I’m not even running it as a marksman build

[unreal nova]

I mean, no change from bully/slapgryns.

[manic umbra]

Trying to plug and play with my melee build

[hollow ibex]

Yah

[manic umbra]

It does the job decently but nowhere near as well as I would want

but maybe I’m just rusty lmao

[unreal nova]

Everything goes flying.

[low wadi]

my friend is lvl 30, and when he come back he can only play diffuclty 1, why?

[unreal nova]

New char?

[serene bough]

if you opted to redo the story mode you start from scratch I think

[unreal nova]

Gotta grind wins to get higher diff.

[unreal nova]

Naw, old chars still have auric unlocked.

[low wadi]

its not new, he is lvl 30

[serene bough]

ah i see

then no idea

[low wadi]

hm

[manic umbra]

Is this a decent split for a WS/Melee heavy Havoc? Really tried to go for agile engagement but not sure if i invested too much away from the ammo-saving nodes

Plan to run this with PS6 and Hellbore IIIa

Or whatever

[low wadi]

is auric maelstrom still hardest diffculty?

[sudden cedar]

Depends

If you exclude Havoc, yes.

Havoc 40 with nightmare modifiers is the most difficult

[low wadi]

how do i find havoc

[sudden cedar]

To the right of the mission terminal you should find Commissar Dukane and the Havoc Terminal

Follow the instructions.

[low wadi]

ok

thx!

[tropic notch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d51275b-f9c4-4494-9b88-bfafbbbf4981/terrible-vet-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

I need to change the weapons but this is the build I’d recommend

[unreal nova]

Even then. I can boot into my Psyker to go check, probably the lowest play time on anything higher than heresy.

Yeah, Auric unlocked on her as well. And I usually don't play auric on my psyker.

[manic umbra]

Hmm is is going top right/out for blood worth it over confirmed kill? And toughness node instead of exploit weakness?

[unreal nova]

Out for blood is literally the best in high density, assuming you get the kills.

[tropic notch]

Yes out for blood makes it so every kill you make gets you toughness

Including ranged and nades

[tropic notch]

And exploit weaknesses isn’t really worth it it’s only 20% for 5 secs it’s better to just get toughness

The power sword definitely doesn’t need brittle or rending it already deals with armor like nothing

[hollow ibex]

Exploit weakness is a meme

[sudden cedar]

@low wadi He must have decided, knowingly or by accident or by being forced into it, to play the campaign, which locks his difficulty until he goes through the process.

[manic umbra]

Hmm fair enough, is it still the case for non Power sword options?

[tropic notch]

Correct

It’s just not worth

[manic umbra]

How’s close order drill on the other hand

[tropic notch]

If it was like 40% which I’m pretty sure Is max it’d be alright

[tropic notch]

I don’t take it

It’s good tho

Reso is just better

[unreal nova]

You either pick middle or right on top. They both work. It depends on what your build is. If you focus elites and specials mostly, you can make use of confirmed kill. But O4B will generally be better for most situations.

Exploit weakness is really a meme btw. You can do it if you really want, just don't go havoc with it.

[past stratus]

What is a good pistol/revolver to use on Vet currently? I'm tired of my Helbore

[tame lodge]

Laspistol mk2

Zarona revolver for general purposes

Agripina revolver for yee haw kill the monstrosity

[past stratus]

Oh ok, thank you!

[hollow ibex]

Shredder auto pistol smh

[elder vessel]

infiltrate my beloved

[normal bay]

Laspistol X for those juicy one tap crits

Bistol for grenade abuse

[versed osprey]

i get it you guys are tired of playing with plasma.. but if you cant aim you are useless with the helbore

[hollow ibex]

They also buffed helbore projectile size so it’s easier to hit headshots with now

[versed osprey]

if you can hit the hitboxes

[elder vessel]

Loose Cannon funny voiceline

"Provost is gone, LOOTING SEASON!"

[unreal nova]

Old news. Loose Cannon has always been a loot gremlin.

[elder vessel]

gotta get your hands on the right tools to survive tertium

[unreal nova]

Or save up for after.

[sudden cedar]

There is no escape from the Lex.

[unreal nova]

LOOT GUD.

[torn gorge]

i just noticed mission board has no maelstrom rn. Is it a known issue/bug?

[arctic glen]

Maelstrom pops up in 3rd difficulty tier, after you've proven your worth.

[manic vigil]

Fellow Veterans, please show me your characters. This is mine.

[tame lodge]

Gimme a minute

Woops

Backend error

Also shout-out to that time I queued into 3 snow hounds

https://tenor.com/view/bro-thinks-he-is-on-the-team-gif-734468567113922582

[torn gorge]

??????????????

what makes you think im not on auric

[long dove]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9f3e2a2b-b639-4a76-b159-d225555d4fb9

This build able to do okay Damnation or higher? I'm mostly wanting it so I can get the penance for uptime

[arctic glen]

Definitely not your sunny attitude.

[torn gorge]

[unreal nova]

WDYM?

[manic vigil]

This reminds me of Echo from The Bad Batch kinda. I like it. Like some kinda comms/tech based guardsman

[manic vigil]

BROOOOO Winter armor???

[manic vigil]

Inquisitor dukane my wife

Guardsmen drip is just so on point.

[unreal nova]

Commissar stuff yes.

Inqusition can do the same anyway so... lul.

Sadly no fun poses with the Bistol.

[torn gorge]

new rotation added 1 maelstrom ye

shouldve taken a screenshot

[void knoll]

Veteran need new weapons 😦

[lucid herald]

Can anyone recommend me a plasmagun build?

[tame lodge]

Sure

[tame lodge]

Xxixiigh

[lucid herald]

Ty

[hollow ibex]

heard reports that auric spawns are fucked

can anyone confirm?

[lucid herald]

I've played auric just fine, not noticing anything in particular

[quick seal]

how to turn on outlines around other palyers/dogs?

i cannot find it in the settings

[quick seal]

i was told that this was an option because I keep getting confused between poxhounds and cyber mastiffs

[heavy rover]

who needs aim when you have mk v helbore with weight of fire

[hollow ibex]

there should be an interface setting

[quick seal]

I think it's this?

[tall torrent]

put companion outline to "all"

it'll show ur own dog as green outline

[tropic notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1153279327513886770/1364138549921976341/vet.png?ex=685d9d46&is=685c4bc6&hm=0e99679b5ec56abcb780836a5ca583e68167b9eef9d982e7e597b3e70be92cb2&

[tall torrent]

and ur teammates' dogs as cyan outline

if u put it as own companion, teammates' dogs aren't outlined

if u put it as allied companions, all dogs including urs are cyan outline

disable is self explanatory

I think all is best

[quick seal]

ehhh... it doesn't improve readability that much lol

[tall torrent]

either all or own

[agile laurel]

So it's been a while since I've played Vet, what are the current "meta" builds?

I played a bit with the plasma gun but man I just don't like doing any of the charging shenanigans so the Lasgun is out for me too. What are halfway decent alternatives?

[tall torrent]

are u going to play havoc

[agile laurel]

I do wanna try it

[tall torrent]

helbore is current top 1~2 ranged for veteran
plasma is very strong, always hipfire, don't charge shot (at least until they rework the weapon)
recon lasgun is probably the simplest and easiest to play, doesn't need headshots as much as those above
DB shotgun is more specialized but does well into high elite density mix hordes
boltpistol is pretty funny with frag spam for havoc's density
boltgun is strong although has major consequences for your team's ammo econ

for base game (havoc and mortis excluded):
mk2a revolver is the best gun
mk5 infantry autogun is extremely strong

as for melee u get essentially 4 choices
power sword VI
combat axe III (doesn't scale as good as power sword for havoc and mortis due to loss of core breakpoints on veteran, super strong for arbites tho)
duelling sword (any, all are op)
combat blade VI (slightly better than III but also more complex)

if u want to stick to smth that handles everything and scales well in all modes
it's pretty much just power sword VI

[tropic notch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d51275b-f9c4-4494-9b88-bfafbbbf4981/terrible-vet-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[tall torrent]

Power sword VI in action:

[tropic notch]

Huh I need to experiment with it on Arby then

[tall torrent]

lone wolf rashad is the strongest melee in the game

bar none

yes, bar none

[tropic notch]

Guh

[agile laurel]

This looks incredibly different than my Darktide but it looks fun as hell

[tropic notch]

This the build for it?

I use tac axe with this

[tall torrent]

I'd run this
can swap blitz to shock mine, depending on ur needs
impact nade better for confirming kills and is slightly more versatile
shock mine better for FUBAR scenarios

[tropic notch]

Hmmm I see

Only thing that changes is the keystone

[quick seal]

Especially since literally everything else in-game is glowing blue outline

[tropic notch]

You like true grit?

[tall torrent]

it's op

[agile laurel]

Ngl that Arby build looks fun to use, sad to give up dog but for strong melee I'll make the sacrifice

[tropic notch]

I know

[tropic notch]

You don’t have too

[tall torrent]

world's first real poxburster DR

[hollow ibex]

isn't it bugged rn lol

[tall torrent]

what bug

[tropic notch]

Hmmm now I’m thinking about trying it without my dog

[hollow ibex]

like it applies to toughness or something too

[tall torrent]

I'm not aware of that

[hollow ibex]

idk, just heard some talk in the cop channel

[tall torrent]

left keystone is easily the strongest

it's actually better with dog but still op without dog

[tropic notch]

Dang I do love forceful

[tall torrent]

with dog u can take the +move speed & dmg for 5s talent on pounce

it makes u have near permanent +10% move speed

just by playing the game

[tropic notch]

I’ll need to set down and really theory craft

[tall torrent]

arbites is a very simple class

the only complex part is stagger

[tropic notch]

What makes the left tree good?

I skimmed over it when reading it

[tall torrent]

+15% Tdmg from dodging
+16% crit chance from kills
+16% strength to melee & ranged weakspot hits
u can see elite and specials through walls up to 40m via purple-mark
+15% Tdmg and +10% Tatk speed from killing purple-marked enemies
x150% CDR from killing purple-marked enemies
+10% crit chance and +25%Cdmg from killing purple-marked enemies
permanent +30% Tdmg vs monsters and ogryns, as well as x70% DR vs monsters
and, if u run dog, +10% Tdmg and +10% move speed whenever dog pounces anyone, which is pretty much all the time

u get quite literally everything u need

[upper dock]

I have not played in a long time. Which autoguns are good now? I think it was the columnus when I last played

[tall torrent]

vraks mk5 (was columnus mk5, got renamed)

[upper dock]

Are the braced any good now? Those are the ones you cannot aim down sights on, yea?

[tall torrent]

mk8 is ok

autopistol pretty good too, but that's more of a zealot weapon tbh

[tropic notch]

Yeah i know the strength on weakspot is crazy and the dodge

[tall torrent]

left keystone pathing gives u ~33.5% crit chance baseline for playing the game

[unreal nova]

Wouldn't you path it even on a melee build?

[tall torrent]

there's basically no reason to not use it outside of penance grinding

[quick seal]

What!?!?

I have never seen this before

I did not even know there was a vote kick function

[unreal nova]

Been there for ages.

[quick seal]

how do I vote kick?

[unreal nova]

Social, click person, start vote to kick.

[quick seal]

I've never seen a vote

[unreal nova]

Needs 3 ppl to agree.

You, as the kickee, don't get to vote.

[quick seal]

No, I'm saying, like in all the time I've been playing this game, there has never been an instance in which another person initiated a vote and then I was able to vote on it

[unreal nova]

Cos most ppl never use it.

Just carry bad players if it comes to that.

[quick seal]

idk why they would kick me. We were halfway through the level and I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. I think they wanted to invite their friend or something, that must be it

[hollow ibex]

most likely

[tropic notch]

What’s the strengths of the right?

[elder vessel]

middle keystone with high fire rate Brautogun

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-sweet-nice-gif-10611964182096860281

[tropic notch]

The strength on ablity is pretty awesome

And the cleave

[unreal nova]

They could have mentioned it though.

[quick seal]

well, whatever, I reported him

[quick seal]

it definitely is the case because i went on the "previous missions" screen and he's sitting at 4/4 party

so he definitely kicked me just to bring another one of his buddies in

[tropic notch]

I got kicked for “not letting people play the game” as my zealot

I was just soloing everything lol

[tall torrent]

cleave & stagger

[tropic notch]

It happens tho

[tropic notch]

Guh

And toughness gain

[tall torrent]

left is just usually better

it's op

[tropic notch]

Guh

[quick seal]

nah this is my first time experiencing this toxicity in this community (outside of havoc/commodore's vestures). Like bro this is heresy. you're level 26. I'm surprised you even found the vote kick button

[tropic notch]

Yeah it’s rare but when it happens it’s bad

Back when the brute conscripts event was going on I had a Marty zealot with chorus and a thammer saying why do d I bring a knife into it

Dawg was a keyboard warrior and doing nothing but talking trash the entire match and died 5 times

We kicked him at the end of the match

[unreal nova]

Were they dead or kissing the floor or were you doing the speedrun zealot thing by accident?

[tropic notch]

He had to be rescued from the respawn anchor 5 times

And not really if you wanna have fun in pubs play like you’re soloing

[unreal nova]

I mean, I run funny tank builds and get left behind so used to it.

[tropic notch]

[unreal nova]

No speed.

Stamina dies as fast as slab oggy.

[tropic notch]

Guh

[unreal nova]

If I try sprinting after.

[tropic notch]

I only use club on him

I stopped using shield

[unreal nova]

Is just safer with 300 ping.

My vet will go splat if I do the same thing.

As in, reckless abandon.

[umbral scaffold]

Suffering from success

Now pass the build

[tropic notch]

The zealot build?

Sure

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e88a554-4683-4ec8-994b-3a493e2d2073/terrible-zealot-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button @umbral scaffold

[umbral scaffold]

Sweet

[tropic notch]

Feel free to replace flesh tearer with precognition

[manic vigil]

For some reason, I thought this was Van Pelt from Jumanji for a second

[remote sonnet]

How is the combat shotgun buff so far?

[sleek garden]

i am enjoying the zarona shotgun

its like a silly version of the arbites default shotgun

[unreal nova]

Longer range ver. Arbites shotgun feels like no range.

IDK, it never hit anything past a certain range.

But anything it hits gets chunked so... Shrugs.

[serene bough]

what perks

flak cara?

[sleek garden]

is anyone else noticing ragdolls getting flung super fast

[tall torrent]

unarmored carapace

[serene bough]

TY

and i assume bromentum headtaker for blessings

3veg moment

[rough cobalt]

Does the height matter? and if yes what is considered the best height

[pine snow]

have you tried using mk8?

mk3 is duck foot and short range
mk8's range is ridiculous

oh wait i misread

wdym it feels like no range

[unreal nova]

When I try to snipe mid range, it just hits nothing. Like trying to hit an out of range sniper with a flamer feel.

[pine snow]

are you adsing?

[unreal nova]

Yes.

[pine snow]

because i find i can map stuff with the mk8

[unreal nova]

I used the default shock one.

[pine snow]

oh thats not for long range

mk3 is short range only

[unreal nova]

Mid. Why eh.

[pine snow]

its very nice horde clear, but yea i switched to mk8 immediately

[unreal nova]

I use my gun to deal with trappers and that's not it.

I rather shotpistol even.

[pine snow]

mk8 had me hitting snipers on the other side of the bridge on carnival

[unreal nova]

Pin point and run&gun. Mostly to tighten spread. Well, I assume it hits like a shotgun.

[pine snow]

it hits like a truck

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

[pine snow]

tallest so i can pretend like im tall obv

[tame lodge]

You'll have easier time battling people and spotting enemies amongst the hordes if you're max height

[unreal nova]

Mini kickback.

[tame lodge]

However you can't take low cover

[unreal nova]

But shield.

[unreal nova]

You can't take cover.

[pine snow]

oh shotpistol

yea its also fun, it just runs outta ammo so fast

[unreal nova]

Every single mid height cover has me shot in the head constantly.

[pine snow]

but this conversation is probably better for the actual arbites channel lol

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-urge-resist-cat-gif-25536160

CSGO time

You crouch

And look down

"Defusing"

[unreal nova]

I don't think it works that way in this.

[tame lodge]

(no idea if that works btw)

https://tenor.com/view/bomb-defused-cat-bomb-defused-gif-24468503

[unreal nova]

And any tall cover, I can't shoot since taller than me or even oggy.

[pine snow]

exploding kittens defuse card:

[unreal nova]

[tame lodge]

But ultimately
Just pick a height you want

People like going rat mode

[unreal nova]

Some say 3/4 towards tall is best.

I dunno, I like tall gals so...

[tame lodge]

You're not zealot or psyker to use lock in mechanics that benefit from tall

[unreal nova]

Easier to stab heds.

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent how imporatnt is 15% more damge above 75% health?

[tall torrent]

it's ok

good for rashad

[tropic notch]

can i see your build for it?

[tall torrent]

either shock mine or impact nade is ok

depends on wat u need

[mighty anvil]

shotgun vet viable on havok?

[supple stag]

Agripinaa shotgun is really good imo

[tropic notch]

Dbarrel is good

[solar surge]

Now what if Veteran also had a dog.

[gaunt hare]

ngl I’m curious why the helbore lasgun doesn’t have a scope or at least a better sight

[grand perch]

because in development there were plans to have an attachment system in place

[gaunt hare]

I’m guessing that the extended weapon customization mod uses that system?

but I see

[grand perch]

yup

[unreal nova]

And they didn't bother to just chuck a random sight on it but sell you skins with them?

[willow tendon]

As long as people buy skins they will keep shovelin shit

[lusty jewel]

MK 7 infantry lasgun... Best blessings ghost + Deadly Accurate? Or Deadly Accurate + Headhunter

Or Ghost + Headhunter

[lusty jewel]

Beauty thank ya

[nocturne mulch]

Yeah, Darktide actually already has systems in place for giving us weapon customisation lol. They just haven't created an interface for it because skin shop goes brrrt

[gaunt hare]

speaking of skins, man I wish that the weapon skins free and paid actually changed mesh based off of what mark you use like the mortis operative skins

[grand perch]

afaik it was more of a GW intervening thing

[gaunt hare]

gw moment

[grand perch]

arbites moment

my man you were away from the team surrounded by heavy gunners

[gaunt hare]

honestly tho like why? how the hell is weapon customization lore breaking GW

[grand perch]

this isnt cod!

[midnight totem]

Up to 5 arbites grenades.

Me with 2 kraks, because pathing.

[willow tendon]

I'd prefer to not take survivalist instead

[midnight totem]

I am already not taking survivalist

[willow tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/gg-wizard-fantasy-freaky-freakyville-gif-14441684093517781512

[calm shard]

they fucking patched MMF gaining a stack during slides

I'm gonna die

[narrow frost]

@grand perch

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1387669890474971136/image.png?ex=685e2fcb&is=685cde4b&hm=e383d8d3458500e076245de2a721ef282b5acdd6fc8eb2ca14d875467899e620&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

exactly like this

they ran into a gunner room

die

then "gg"

Havoc 40

[grand perch]

Overconfidence, it seems, is actually a fast and obvious killer

[narrow frost]

I was close to clutching

[grand perch]

Also why do we consistently choose the same voice sets for our chars?

[narrow frost]

@upbeat rapids

[narrow frost]

idk

[grand perch]

Almost no one uses female cutthroat but here we are. And now authoritarian arby

[calm shard]

if it weren't for the bots that'd be the rarest voice in the game imo

[grand perch]

And ngl I hate arbys calling vets Cadets

Haughty pricks

[long dove]

I'm getting sick of all these damn Arbites players who just rush ahead and not support anyone but whoever they queued with

I've died more today than I have in the entirety of Playing this game

[frank ledge]

Some of us want to reunlock auric fast

Aka this week

not in 2

[steel fiber]

question, 3 toughness curios or 2 toughness 1 hp?

voice of command if that matters

[willow tendon]

for me personally + health isn't that valuable

[steel fiber]

now i'm still like, a little confused, as the chart would point to 1 hp + 2 tough but you said + hp isnt that valueable

[willow tendon]

I said that I don't find it that valuable but the guide does

[steel fiber]

ahh aight

thansk

[serene bough]

I do 2 toughness 1 stam

HP isn't as valuable as toughness these days

At least for vet

[long dove]

I go 2 tough 1 health to get me over 200

[grand perch]

That's the meta option I'd say

I like to run one of each, tough stam hp

[normal bay]

They'll patch grenade builds next

[tame lodge]

"Removed Lethal Proximity interaction"
"Buffed Thinkerer"

[normal bay]

"Thinkerer"

[long dove]

I like how the Autogun feels

Random I know. Made an autogun build earlier and it's shredding stuff decently well

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/your-not-the-thinker-bro-really-thinking-the-thinker-gif-27428949

[chrome matrix]

Uh, Arbi is a support class?

[steel fiber]

not what theyre saying?

supporting someone could mean covering their ass or using your ability near them

[chrome matrix]

I mean, technically you should always be sticking by your team if you aren't running a class where you can hold your own

[narrow frost]

I support my team by running rooms ahead and killing every spawn before they see my team

All classes can play by themselves

[short vapor]

Rate my roll, I heard perks are offmeta

[narrow frost]

6/10, no lethal prox

Smh

[steel fiber]

i was about to say surgical is kinda overkill but thats only cause i run specialist

[hot crag]

Guys with plasma nerfs you think we'll still able to one shot scab snipers with M1?

[narrow frost]

Easily

And those nerfs leaked aren't final

They might not even come out, even though they should have already done it

[hot crag]

I hope so😂

They literally wrote a whole page for the plasma

[narrow frost]

Plasma needs to be addressed

The way it was in the leaks is a great idea

[short vapor]

Lethal Proximity is funny because nobody would ever know if it got a stealth nerf until a dataminer said so

[narrow frost]

And when was that?

And what was it

[short vapor]

Lethal Proximity is funny because nobody would ever know if it got a stealth nerf until a dataminer said so

[narrow frost]

Ah

[mighty anvil]

No matter how much they nerf plasma it will always be good

[narrow frost]

Debatable

But I understand

Nothing truly is bad in darktide

[long dove]

by support I mean help

[mighty anvil]

I ran into a scenario where a ogryn with a shield (i think they are called bulwark) was sitting there menacingly. And i just spammed plasma into him completely ignoring his shield not having to re position.
As long as I can comepletely bypass mechanics that require positioning the plasma will always be good.

[narrow frost]

That was changed in the crafting update where plasma stopped on bulwark shield, but I think they reverted that in like 3 days

Iirc

So it is possible they could change it back

[short vapor]

They go through a couple renditions for changes. Based on the timing, and the fact we didn't actually get the changes, it's pretty safe to assume that what was written may not have been the final version intended to be released.

[mighty anvil]

Was it completely removed? Or like only on M1?

[narrow frost]

Idk

I don't use plasma

Probably the most boring weapon for me

[mighty anvil]

I think completely removing penetration still wouldn't kill the weapon as long as it has cleave, you might be able to shoot to the side of the Bulwark, if they made it more like grenade launcher AoE

[mighty anvil]

It took me like 40 hours to learn to like it.

[hot crag]

That was to much of a nerf and the compensation for the charged shot was so little in comparison

[trim steppe]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Right before the nerf lmao, I've been checking the shop constantly since the crafting rework

[mighty anvil]

nice roll

[trim steppe]

This was the last weapon where I had a "pretty good" roll instead of perfect. Now I can enjoy it for a few days before they patch

[mighty anvil]

Nerf Plasma
Release grenade launcher? I thought i heard someone talk about a new wep for vet and arbites being a nade launcher

[grand perch]

This pleases the @tired egret

[normal bay]

"Right before the nerf"

What, in like 3 months, maybe?

[trim steppe]

Well, considering how long I've been looking for it, this is the 11th hour

[grand perch]

How could a DD psyker understand when they get stacks for so much as looking at enemies

[solemn niche]

my weekly assignment looks like this what veteran weapon should I use ?

[narrow frost]

Psword Dbarrel

Or Taxe agri combat shotgun

Or shovel las pistol

[grand perch]

Ainz don't corrupt the youth

[narrow frost]

What

Those doesn't do anything to a melee vet

Also

[solemn niche]

what does "hardened skin"even do lol

[grand perch]

At least mention recon psword

[solemn niche]

it doesn't explain anything

[narrow frost]

https://youtu.be/GjrQtdy4bMY?si=Aj1JN3HvTWDJp1d9

[narrow frost]

Like 70% ranged damage reduction

[grand perch]

Cucks ranged damage

It's 100% anti vet biased bullshit

Have fun with flamers having 4200 effective hp against ranged

DoTs bypass this so recon with infernus does good work

[normal bay]

I'm just imagining shovel horde clear in H40 mobs

[serene bough]

You just dont play the mission

[frank ledge]

Veterans, when is our golden age coming back?

[grand perch]

We'll all be corpse starch soon so don't worry about it

[charred finch]

honestly

i'm really wondering what they'll do with plasmagun

like yeah it's strong sure but the only thing it really does well than your other options on vet is going through bulwark shields

[hexed vale]

I assume it might be much similar, you'll just right click instead of left clicking

[grand perch]

50 cleave

On rapid fire left clicks

[charred finch]

ya

i know

but it really just is... eh outside of that?

probably because it's boring as fuck

[normal bay]

They're buffing the charge shot and it's unyielding values iirc

So it might be better all around

For bosses, one tapping Ogryns etc

[charred finch]

iunno where you read that

[normal bay]

That was in the chinese notes

[charred finch]

if you mean the "leaked" chinese steam update page thing or whatever fatshark already said they aren't doing that on forums

[normal bay]

Ah

Nevermind then

[charred finch]

my recommendation

delete plasmagun

[normal bay]

That specifically or just those changes in general?

[charred finch]

give vet a melta

[charred finch]

all the changes listed in general

we just don't know what they have planned currently for plasgun & ds

[mighty anvil]

stop i can only get so hard

[charred finch]

actually

remove plasmagun

give vet a melta

and plasma pistol instead

[mighty anvil]

are you reading my mind right now?!

[oblique totem]

Best we can do is a multimelta

[half path]

my characters hair

my characters hair when he puts on the evil baret of balding

[charred finch]

Get balded noob.,.

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/bald-bald-head-shiny-bald-head-sponge-bob-sponge-bob-square-pants-gif-4830356535569685568

[analog timber]

what builds everyone running after update?

[solemn niche]

combat axe mk3 and recon lasgun

[deep bone]

Infantry LasGun and Power Sword

[analog timber]

I like the sound of that

How do you build that?

[deep bone]

I can’t get a photo rn cause I’m at work but later on I will send a pic

[thin minnow]

I fucking relapsed

[grand perch]

That's a weird arbites

[sudden cedar]

https://tenor.com/sXXMCD2azEp.gif

[steep flower]

MAN and i thought this would not be a zealot chat

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower I am here. So this IS a Zealot Chat.

[willow tendon]

as of 23rd this is an arbites chat like every other

[sudden cedar]

I havent said anything about Arbites.

[hasty pasture]

Arbites is the better veteran

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

No Helbore on Arby's

Trash class

[hasty pasture]

True

[heavy rover]

No this is the helbore chat

[topaz lance]

Arbeetees does exe stance better than vet sadly.

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

No wall hacks

No weapon handling

[hasty pasture]

They do have wallhacks

Bottom left

[tame lodge]

So
Not part of the ability

[hasty pasture]

Meant left

[tame lodge]

[hasty pasture]

That highlights specialist a mile away

Its great

Veteran players are on suicide watch cause the cooler veteran is better

[placid portal]

when they say "Periodically" how often is that

[heavy rover]

Nuh uh, arbeetus doesn't have helbore

[sudden cedar]

It is very often.

[hasty pasture]

Its often enough that it doesn't matter lol

[tame lodge]

Probably as often as DD

[placid portal]

I forgot what is DD

[hasty pasture]

Like its passive to the point where Im like oh there's a specialist in the next town over

[heavy rover]

Daily Dose (of internet)

[sudden cedar]

Disrupt Destiny.

[heavy rover]

Or Dirty Diana if you like that song

[placid portal]

ahhh, I don't play psyker enuff

[sudden cedar]

I wouldn't even be surprised if it is the same coding and all, just a different outline.

Scrap that, it excludes normal enemies of course.

[topaz lance]

I am an exe stance enjoyer. Arbites is more fun for that playstyle for now.

At least for me

[tame lodge]

Doesn't give weapon handling nor wall hacks though

[topaz lance]

Arbites get Ogryn highlights for free though

[tame lodge]

I really don't see how it's "better exec stance"

[sudden cedar]

Ogryn highlights?

That is a thing?

[tame lodge]

Stun and slow immunity check for both

[topaz lance]

left keystone. When I say exe stance I meant a combination of the left ability and keystone on the arbites

[tame lodge]

But then it's not a feat of the Arby's ability

[topaz lance]

maybe I was hallucinating but I swear exe order highlights Ogryns for me. Even deamonhosts.

[topaz lance]

Don't "um actually" me boy

[tame lodge]

Well I'm right

[sudden cedar]

Exec Stance can be upgraded with that, yes.

You made it sound like Ogryns have something that gives outlines.

[steep flower]

In this case mah boi is

[sudden cedar]

[topaz lance]

wilfully obtuse more like

[tame lodge]

Nah

[topaz lance]

nono I meant that arbites get Ogryn highlights for free in the keystone while it's a modifier for vet

[sudden cedar]

Yeah that is true.

Maybe i just missunderstood.

Anyway.

[steep flower]

Real talk tho; i dislike the ‚uuuggghhh Arby is better Vet’ type shit; both are good in their own ways and the abilities they provide in the builds…

[sudden cedar]

I agree with that.

I can see however why some feel like that.

Arbites and Ogryn Talent Tree is foreshadowing what the Veteran Tree could look like.

Same goes with Zealot and Psyker

[steep flower]

I do too but imo ppl with such opinion lack deep perspective on the class they talk about

In short; they need to do better

[sudden cedar]

Probably, yes.

[steep flower]

Zel tree is gonna be next for reworks

And judging by the looks of oggys & arbys trees its gonna be great

[sudden cedar]

It has great potential

[tame lodge]

What's the shotgun tree on Arby's? Middle?

[sudden cedar]

What i like the most about those new talent trees is that you can take any of the paths and abilities without sacrificing too many points in order to get there.

[steep flower]

All of them really

[sudden cedar]

Hell, you can even ignore the middle purple perks in the Arbites tree.

Because there is a connection to the bottom part of the tree.

[tame lodge]

[steep flower]

You can combine many talents from other trees that will work for shotgun and its a great design

[sudden cedar]

Of course with how much freedom the Arbites and Ogryn trees offer, any class that does not have that...players would probably feel annoyed by this.

Being able to run all abilities without sacrificing X amount of points into garbage talents is great.

[steep flower]

It can feel underwhelming in comparrison but its not that bad as ppl paint it

[sudden cedar]

I agree

The other classes are very much playable and can deliver.

Grass is greener on the other side.

However, one could say that it makes flaws of other abilities and talent trees more obvious.

[grand perch]

arby talent tree shold be an example for zealot and vet rework

more flexibility

[sudden cedar]

So anyone who may not have paid that much attention to it now does. And with it come their opinions on it.

Let us hope it will be so.

Even Psyker could use some of that.

To allow more freedom.

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/david-hasselfhoff-david-hasslehoff-hasslehoff-hasselhoff-mauerfall-gif-12160657252848399548

(if you get this, congratulations, you are now german)

[sleek garden]

bought a little 500 aquila pack for 3 dollars and it said fail to redeem once i was in the game

there are so many vet talents i miss on arbitrator

[unreal nova]

Arbites has basically the vet tree but less bloated and more choices vs railroaded.

[sleek garden]

exhilarating takedown would be busted with the arby shotgun

[tame lodge]

The only thing that comes close to giving weapon handling on Arby's is the Boombox

[unreal nova]

Naw, only thing is ammo aura.

[tame lodge]

Yeah not better than exec

[sleek garden]

i also miss executors stance

im trying not to minmax while im levelling up so i keep using battle rifles and precision weapons

but i cant one shot little dudes

[unreal nova]

Oh and knoife.

[unreal nova]

The fork approach, if you get it. Just not taxed crazy if you decide to pick anything above the actual prongs part.

[sleek garden]

i hope i play the game like this

[sudden cedar]

@grand perch Well.. actually..

[grand perch]

?

[sudden cedar]

I don't need to understand that one.

[unreal nova]

I think you got ahead of(f) yourself.

[sudden cedar]

Whatever.

@grand perch David Hasselhoff, "Looking for Freedom", Brandenburg Gate, Berlin. Must be quite a while ago.

Don't know the specifics, probably a bit after 1990.

[grand perch]

germans have this joke that hasselhoff united germany

[sudden cedar]

Yeah. I am aware.

[trim badger]

Buff plasma

[tame lodge]

Unironically yes

[steep flower]

Stop the cap

[tame lodge]

[tame lodge]

It's hilarious to see multiple dogs on a boss

They are ready to throw hands

And I respect it

[steep flower]

I expected the dog to like bounce off a boss not mount it before arbys got released

Glad i was wrong

[trim badger]

I actually expected it to permanently stick on a boss

[undone jungle]

Crazy how a fully spec'd out dog just solos bosses

Turns out brittleness on elec and bleed DOT goes crazy

[unreal nova]

Why do you just path it for the free crits as well on melee builds.

[undone jungle]

I only pathed it once for a shotpistol boss kill build but I've noticed the dog could easily solo bosses if given a minute it's very funny

I might make a full dog build with break the line and that 50% dog damage build

[unreal nova]

I just sic it on the BoN and just running.

[undone jungle]

Even better in Mortis trials when it gets a 10s internal cooldown dog nuke it can trigger on its own

I need to install this mod though because my ears hurt so much https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/259

[serene bough]

Imo the bigger problem is vet and zealot dont have as many viable options for higher diff, not so much that theyre unplayable

[undone jungle]

Oh wait you can turn off ping sound in settings

Thank god

[willow tendon]

wish every left click pinger's food will eternally taste bad

[serene bough]

All of arbys active abilities are pretty great but vet really only has VoC, for example

[unreal nova]

Ppl complain their WS sucks harder than ours.

No inf ammo.

[serene bough]

Well Arby keystones arent very balanced

I dont see many reasons to take any other than the leftmost

But the rest of the tree is pretty flexible

[unreal nova]

Right is memes.

You want mini oggy, you get mini oggy.

A.k.a. bullies the dook out of everything bully club style.

Throw in hammerblow if you just want things flying every hit.

[tame lodge]

Dogs when bulwark

[unreal nova]

They still solo the bulwark somehow.

The actual player failed to.

[steep flower]

I press Q to tag

[sudden cedar]

People use auto-ping or ping macro for this?

[unreal nova]

There are, yes.

[willow tendon]

ok battlefield andy

[sudden cedar]

I use T

[unreal nova]

Like they didn't learn from the FT auto tag or left click tag issues.

[sudden cedar]

you know.. for Tag

[steep flower]

Its simply close to me fingers on WSAD; very practical

[unreal nova]

Now every boss is tagged over 8 times a fight.

[sudden cedar]

Well that is because of the dog.

Dog might get confused.

[unreal nova]

You need to do it manually for every Arbites.

[sudden cedar]

And the stagger explosion is.. a bit wonky

[unreal nova]

Bosses got immune recovery time.

Need to wait abit between blasts.

[sudden cedar]

Uhm.. yeah maybe but.

The dog will jump onto the boss and that is when the chance of it working is the highest

otherwise it might simply not register.

Not even the damage it comes with.

[unreal nova]

Btw, I heard it works with Lethal and puncture as well.

[tall tundra]

New veteran here, whats the best build for him yall?

[sudden cedar]

And also, the dog might get confused and attacks something else.

Or you have to make the dog attack something else because of.. reasons.

[unreal nova]

Planning to test it when I roll a good bistol.

[sudden cedar]

What do you mean "when"?

[tame lodge]

@tall tundra

[sudden cedar]

What is a good bolt pistol?

[tall tundra]

Thx

[unreal nova]

I nuked my dockets trying to get a good maul and shield.

[unreal nova]

Collateral dump.

[sudden cedar]

So what you want to say is, you are poor?

[unreal nova]

Dockets wise, yes.

XD

[sudden cedar]

Fair enough.

[unreal nova]

Real money wise, also yes. But different issues.

[sudden cedar]

Now, i don't get the collateral dump because i don't see a point of upgrading the mobility to 80% but.. okay.

[unreal nova]

Collateral doesn't do anything for Bistol.

No new stagger breakpoints.

[sudden cedar]

Can someone confirm?

[unreal nova]

@tall torrent Do you know anyone who tested the Bistol collateral stagger breakpoints?

I think Papa did, you can try asking him.

I felt no diff on my vet.

[sudden cedar]

The question is probably more like, will it inflict more stagger with higher collateral?

[unreal nova]

By 0.9 points or so.

[sudden cedar]

I take that.

[unreal nova]

Might be less, I need to get on to check.

But from what I know general consensus is it does basically nothing so dump over mobility.

Things either die before they get staggered, or the added stagger doesn't change the shots needed.

[serene bough]

this build always triggers me

taking kraks instead of shredders for an entry build

[sudden cedar]

Does it stack with other sources of stagger tho?

[unreal nova]

Better pathing usually.

[sudden cedar]

Kraks are good for an entry build tho

You see a Bulwark, he gets a Krak in the face and dies.

Crusher? Krak.

Maulers? Krak!

Bosses? You guessed it, Krak!

[serene bough]

better pathing to forego shredders and survivalist is not entry friendly

[willow tendon]

you don't have a build to deal with carapace and bosses starting out

[serene bough]

kraks arent good enough yet to warrant them over shredders

[sudden cedar]

That may go for higher level veterans.

I.e. players with experience not the actual class

[unreal nova]

Also, newer players will be scared of crushers and usually can't deal with them.

[sudden cedar]

For complete numbskulls, Kraks are very easy to use.

[serene bough]

its still not entry friendly to introduce new players to kraks

[sudden cedar]

How so?

[serene bough]

it builds bad habits and cannot consistently delete armor

[sudden cedar]

Crushers, Bulwarks and Bosses are a massive threat to inexperienced players.

Hell, even Maulers and Ragers are.

[unreal nova]

Wot. You are either playing with 300+ ping or can't aim 'nades then.

[void dragon]

Except if is captain with Void shield for SOME Reason

[sudden cedar]

A Krak grenade is a simple solution to it.

[willow tendon]

without them you just can't kill carapace then at low levels so what does that build

[serene bough]

shredders are significantly better at mauler and rager clusters of mixed hordes

kraks are only useful on bulwarks and monstros, arguably reapers in certain cases

[sudden cedar]

and on lower difficulties the enemy density is not high enough to warrant shredders

[serene bough]

you bring a weapon that deals with carapace and teach players early

[sudden cedar]

@serene bough Maybe you are correct, would a numbskull new player know that?

They probably would not.

[willow tendon]

where would a person that just bought the game get that weapon from

[serene bough]

u are limited by 2 kraks

[unreal nova]

Also, you try using a random 150 power 0% damage shovel to whack down a crusher. It doesn't go well.

[serene bough]

they wouldn't know anything, whats your point

you want to direct them to the more optimal build for better performance

[sudden cedar]

Exactly, you wouldnt.

Which is why a Krak Grenade is very straightforward in what it does.

Stick it on a Bulwark, it dies.

[serene bough]

this is terrible advice im sorry

[unreal nova]

Remember, think as a newbie with barely any experience.

[sudden cedar]

Nothing fancy to it.

[serene bough]

shredders are just far better in far more situations

[sudden cedar]

We do not doubt that for a second

[normal bay]

I get where you're coming from but fighting maulers, crushers and ragers with grey shovels,.mk1 devil claws and a las rifle isn't exactly a good time

[sudden cedar]

We just see the wider spectrum here.

[serene bough]

i just dont understand the logic of suggesting players should take kraks and not a weapon that can deal with armor

its ok if they get smacked around a bit if it means they build better habits

[willow tendon]

they don't have that weapon

[serene bough]

kraks do not build good habits

[serene bough]

this is a lvl 30 build

[willow tendon]

alright

I didn't have a maxed weapon at level 30

[unreal nova]

You make a new vet, play like someone with 0 experience plays. You'll either get it or don't.

[sudden cedar]

Level 30 is nothing.

It just says, you leveled your operative to level 30.

How that translates into actual experience is another thing entirely.

[serene bough]

my point is they have access to all weapons if theyre using this build, i.e., access to armor piercing weeapons

[normal bay]

Depends where they are. Most of vets weapons suck for armour or need blessings + perks + a build. Or would you rather they blast everything with the recon las lol

[unreal nova]

You can use it as a step by step guide as to where to put points lvling up.

[sudden cedar]

If level 30 would mean anything, people with that level wouldnt.. they wouldn't struggle so much.

[willow tendon]

onslaught aficionados rise up

[serene bough]

ur missing the point

if they're using this build they're lvl 30 so they have access to armor piercing weapons

[unreal nova]

Is true, I had to clutch damnation at 24~.

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

Having access to something and being good in using it is something else.

A new player who barely knows how to melee and maybe only knows how to shoot things might not know how to also use something that requires more thinking like a Shredder Grenade.

A Krak is, again, a very simply solution to remove Carapace Enemies.

[serene bough]

shredders are the opposite of thinking

toss 2 and you clear a room

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

So is the Krak.

[unreal nova]

Lvls means nothing. Avg player base isn't that good. If you played weekends, you would have known.

[serene bough]

kraks are extremely finite and require knowledge of when to use and when to save

[sudden cedar]

Use 1 Krak, dangerous Carapace enemy is gone.

And back to mag-dumping the horde.

[serene bough]

because there's hundreds of armor and only 2 in your pocket

[sudden cedar]

No there is not hundreds depending on the difficulty

[willow tendon]

or inspect talents of players on the ship 💀

[unreal nova]

Both are finite. Unless the Goddess of Luck smiles upon you.

[normal bay]

Not if you're a new player. Might be like 2 maulers maybe lol

[sudden cedar]

Correct.

[serene bough]

shredders have a higher count

they are easier to spam and manage with demo team

[steep flower]

Level does not equal knowledge about the build… not to mention farming for perfect rolls of weapons and their perks & blessings, not to mention empowering it to 500

[serene bough]

kraks require seroius point investment to be useful and this build does not do that

[unreal nova]

Look, I have meme builds. Don't @ me.

[sudden cedar]

@unreal nova You have saved me with Meme Builds before, don't downtalk yourself.

[steep flower]

Kraks are good for bosses; they are too scarse to be used againts elites consideringvthe sheer density of them

[normal bay]

No they don't? You just pick the krak and 60s regen. That's fine for lower diffs

[sudden cedar]

The higher we go, the more Shredders become useful, just like you describe it.

[unreal nova]

Pifft. They meme but still do niche things usually.

[normal bay]

And with the lower density, shredders do feck all

[serene bough]

the whole argument here is that kraks are a much more straightforward choice than shredders bc you pop on armor and they're done, but in truth, this is less straightforward than just tossing shredders bc they deal with far greater number of threats and trivialize many encounters that would otherwise be FUBAR. A krak will ideally kill a cluster of enemies at once but is usually targeting 1 or 2 at a time whereas shredders can clear a room

[sudden cedar]

I totally agree.

For a new player however, that all does not matter.

At all.

[serene bough]

not to mention you're foregoing survivalist and making new players consider ammo economy which wouldnt be the case if they path better

[unreal nova]

The idea is newbies or ppl really needing builds play on malice, maybe heresy at best.

[sudden cedar]

Krak deletes dangerous big enemy. Good enough.

[serene bough]

im sorry but this point is just nonsense

you want to introduce new players to stronger builds and then have them learn from there

[sudden cedar]

That is your opinion.

[unreal nova]

Have you even played malice recently?

[sudden cedar]

No.

[serene bough]

kraks are just directly inferior to shredders

[sudden cedar]

I think you want to introduce players to the game by using something simple.

Kraks are simple.

[serene bough]

kraks are not simple

[steep flower]

Micromanaging your ammo/grenades/stimms/crates is another skill ppl need to learn; even a fool will run out of ammo spamming recon las with shock trooper

[serene bough]

that is the point

[unreal nova]

It's empty enough where 2 kraks can delete the scawy crushers.

[sudden cedar]

Metagaming and minmaxing comes later. Much later.

[serene bough]

shredders are significantly mroe versatile and usable in many more situations without thought

on paper kraks look simple, but using them effectively requires far mroe game knowledge

[sudden cedar]

And, shockingly, some people just don't care about that and just want to have fun in their way.

[serene bough]

bc theyre weaker

[sudden cedar]

Which is fine.

[void dragon]

Mate thinking on a void and no actual gameplay If he thinks kraks are in a good spot and are good for a novice player

[normal bay]

It's also good to make a start on the 500 krak kills penance lol

[sudden cedar]

If we include everything you say, yes that is true.

[unreal nova]

Shush. Don't remind me. I magdumped everything that isn't a walker/groaner one game and my ammo cried.

[serene bough]

i just think its irresponsible to teach new players to play with a less player friendly build

[sudden cedar]

Fair enough.

[serene bough]

shredders and surv are far more player friendly and teaching players to path away from that initially is irresponsible

[steep flower]

Ppl pick kraks in the beginning cause big bois are threatening to them and they want an answer; with time and patience they learn different options, more reliable ones

[sudden cedar]

I think you overthink things and want to force high-end stuff onto new players who are already overwhelmed with what is going on in the first place.

[unreal nova]

Stop bringing up the trauma.

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower I agree with that.

[void dragon]

Do like me and never complete that penance, your mental health will thank me

[unreal nova]

I went lethal prox kraks.

[serene bough]

this is just not a good reason

[sudden cedar]

I have been in many situations where i am easily capable of deleting the Crusher in front of me by using melee, but a veteran throws a Krak.

Is it unnecessary? Yes.

Is it okay? Also yes.

[void dragon]

I want Kraks that are useful for something else but Krak sandwiches

[sudden cedar]

Eventually, they will learn. Or they will not. Which is also fine.

[serene bough]

it keeps getting brought up that im bringing in significantly mroe game knowledge, but like, kraks require far more game knowledge than shredders lol

[lavish stump]

if anybody here has some modded UI can you please send me you user_settings file? and screenshot so I can see how your UI actually looks?

[unreal nova]

50% chance to repeat deleting DH fun.

[steep flower]

But it is described in the ability and ppl follow through

[serene bough]

popping 1 crusher vs clearing an entire room of mixed elites in a horde... its so apparent that this is far more friendly to new players

[sudden cedar]

The crusher is a way more dangerous enemy without much experience

[unreal nova]

I mean, some never do. When you played a heresy with two oggies that went down or died over 20 times... yeah...

[sudden cedar]

Deleting that one target with a Krak achieves way more for that player.

[serene bough]

but there's several

so then what

they run out of kraks then die?

[sudden cedar]

Yes.

[void dragon]

Kraks: do big boom
Frags: room cc for safe melee damge, damage even caparace can't ignore, bleed to clean hordes

[serene bough]

do u think this is more new player friendly then lol

[unreal nova]

Either learn positioning or keep dying.

[void dragon]

The disparity is too big

[steep flower]

They don’t know that and on lower diffs they don’t even end up in such situations so they won’t know till highier diffs or more experienced ppl teach them

[sudden cedar]

@serene bough Yes.

[normal bay]

There aren't big rooms of elites on those beginner diffs.

And they also don't know about lethal prox. Shredder aoe isn't that big and is more about stagger + bleed

[sudden cedar]

I know, it is weird. But that is how it is.

[serene bough]

not to be rude, but youre just incorrect

[unreal nova]

It only gets big if you lean into tinkerer and lethal prox.

[void dragon]

Lower dif you can ignore your blitz entirely and just melee your path

[willow tendon]

simply put a new player does not have a way to deal with carapace and bosses without kraks, while always has a way to deal with horde and specialists

[normal bay]

I used kraks a lot when I started out. Because my anti armour options fucking sucked. Didn't find I ran out too often, as long as I had the 60s regen

[steep flower]

Bleed primarily; if shredders would not stack bleed that much they would not be always picked

[unreal nova]

No damage speedrun even just one bonk horde kill.

[steep flower]

Why base frag is not great but shredder is? Cause bleed

[serene bough]

If we're hinging this discussion on "new players need a friendlier option" but kraks are only going to delay a lack of competence that would otherwise kill the player... why not introduce the player to a better build that punishes them early for dealing with armor so they can address their skill issue before reaching higher difficutlies?

esp considering frags deal with almost every single threat better than kraks

[willow tendon]

it's not a skill issue... they don't have the means to deal with these enemies

[serene bough]

again this build implies they're lvl 30

[unreal nova]

You play through campaign solo with 3 bots on new char. Use Devil Claw or a grey shovel and inf las.

[serene bough]

so this point is not logical

[void dragon]

Not knowing how to melee is a different issue altogether from the blitz discussion

[steep flower]

Can i see the build in question?

[void dragon]

I saw so many players that are just unaware how to melee

[serene bough]

a

[unreal nova]

I'll like to see you deal with a crusher that doesn't take 15 hits to kill.

With a newbie mindset when they will suck at dodging or not even know they can dodge it.

[void dragon]

Honestly? Crushers aren't scary outside of their ninja ways, Bulwarks on the other hand...

[serene bough]

I just dont understand this position of skill peopel are taking in this discussion

[steep flower]

Aaahhh the Path take; tbh when i saw it i cringed

Yeah nah

[unreal nova]

Oh, GL for newbies who dunno to keep dodging left and spamming attacks.

[serene bough]

New players lack skill... lets give them a build that offers less optimal options to deal with armor and encourage them to use whatever weapon they want as opposed to a weapon that can effectively deal with armor

[void dragon]

And to think I already thought Veteran's perl tree was already mid

[void dragon]

But what if newby only dodged right?