veteran-class

[spark canopy]

it requires you to be selfish

"oh guys please please please don't shoot at the enemies that are shooting at you please please"

[arctic rampart]

I II V E G is fun

[tacit sonnet]

I'll pretend I remember what modifiers these letters stand for

[spark canopy]

G is extra blitz (grenades)

that much i know for sure

[narrow frost]

From Combine

[tacit sonnet]

v : only traitor guard faction
You mean scab, right?

[arctic rampart]

correct

[narrow frost]

yes

scab = traitor

[tacit sonnet]

All scabs are traitors

[narrow frost]

dreg = cultist

[tacit sonnet]

But not all traitors are scabs

[spark canopy]

i am so

so so so

so fucking tired

of playing with players that are so

fucking impatient

i'm trying to get a single fucking penance done

"on Heresy or higher, keep Volley Fire active for over 20 seconds 5 times"

[tacit sonnet]

Have you ever asked them in chat to help you with penances?

[spark canopy]

should be easy enough, right?

[spark canopy]

yes. and all i've ever gotten were "gl" or nothing at all

[tacit sonnet]

I have every single class penance completed, I don't care unless you ask

Suprisingly it was the opposite for me, most players agreed to help with whatever penance I asked for

[spark canopy]

i just have a lot of slurs i would like to call the mouth breathing smooth brains that play public

including myself

[tacit sonnet]

Not all, but most were very helpful

[spark canopy]

i think i hate this one more than the 500 Krak kills

[tacit sonnet]

Are you playing heresy by any chanche?

[spark canopy]

yes.

i am.

[tacit sonnet]

oh

that's why

[spark canopy]

heresy and damnation.

[tacit sonnet]

Heresy is where the most shitheads play

[spark canopy]

i fucking hate it

[tacit sonnet]

Don't play heresy

[pseudo fiber]

Heresy is like a zoo

[spark canopy]

i'm just having a fuckass horrible time

[tacit sonnet]

My theory is that heresy players play at almost max difficulty

So they think that they are good players

[spark canopy]

think i'm just better of going to #vox-lfg?

[tacit sonnet]

When in reality they still suck ass

yes

60% chance ainz will be the first to answer and carry you

[true jackal]

if you bind you ping to your shoot button, I am killin you

that is all

[jolly birch]

its funny that they even implemented a mechanic to make spamming the ping button bad to do, but I think it's more potent in Vermintide than it is in Darktide

it starts in a radius around the cursor, and if you press it twice too quickly in succession without pinging anything it shrinks the ping radius, and I think even disables it for a time if you go even further

if not that, then you gotta be pinpoint accurate to ping if you're spamming it

[true jackal]

I am pretty sure it was literally on this dudes shoot button

it was a vet, thankfully it was an automatic weapon

so he clicked marginally less

[jolly birch]

I'm pretty sure they can get mods that highlight specific enemies for them, if they just wanted the red outline

I consider that one kinda cheating, since Veteran has an ability to do specifically that, but it's fine for people with visual problems imo

[arctic rampart]

that will be a lot easier on auric maelstrom just from the number of targets

[placid portal]

Kinda wish we could change the tagged enemy highlight color since red gets easily covered by flames and gore

[vapid nacelle]

what curios y'all like to run

[placid portal]

+9 stamina

[vapid nacelle]

oh hey same

[placid portal]

Helbor getting boof on swap speed and mk4 bayonet melee speed buff

[loud belfry]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/255

[slow spade]

Helbore buffs -> but now Duty and Honor is removed UwU

equivalent exchange I assure you

[tall torrent]

do u need help

[placid portal]

I forgot duty and honor 😭

[slow spade]

the VoC upgrade for uyellow toughness

[vapid nacelle]

I'm ready for the taxe buffs

[placid portal]

Well, it was kinda op ngl

What did they change it for?

[tame lodge]

Ah yes
The war game Voice Of Command rule
Duty and Honor !
That raises leadership and objective control of the units

Translated to golden toughness to DT

[vapid nacelle]

VoC is getting changed?

[slow spade]

no was joking

[vapid nacelle]

oh ok

[slow spade]

if it vet would be VERY sad

it did*

[vapid nacelle]

I'd be interested

[placid portal]

At that point it's 1 pulse
of Chorus with full toughness restoration for self

[vapid nacelle]

I play without the golden toughness node sometimes just for challenge lol

[placid portal]

I run Shredder pistol & DClaw to experience the Sly Marbo gameplay

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-wh40k-sly-marbo-aaaaaa-alfabusa-gif-14316691

[unreal nova]

Taxed Born leader to restore teammates.

[vapid nacelle]

both a +9 stamina and a shredder pistol enjoyer

I use combat axe though

or tactical axe

[placid portal]

Shredder is hell ngl 😭

[vapid nacelle]

I like it

[placid portal]

Unless they move born leader

[vapid nacelle]

I like sprinting into shooter groups and suppressing them all at once

every now and again in a match my team hides behind a wall cuz there's a huge wall of shooters and I'm like welp

this is a job for me

[placid portal]

Im kinda addicted to smoke

[vapid nacelle]

smoke grenade you mean?

[placid portal]

Ye

[vapid nacelle]

eh

[unreal nova]

Then more taxes.

[vapid nacelle]

I don't really like krak grenade or smoke grenades honestly

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/the-irs-gif-27085173

[placid portal]

Krak is too slow in my taste fr

[vapid nacelle]

and then there's also oh hey that ogryn I threw the grenade at died before it blew up

welp

guess I'm short a grenade

[loud belfry]

average krak scenario

[vapid nacelle]

I gave up trying for the krak grenade penance

[true jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/floreyonce-peter-griffin-brian-griffin-family-guy-gif-15968016242340041169

[vapid nacelle]

I don't have the patience to try to pull it off anymore

[unreal nova]

Smoke is good, but niche. Like it can save h40 runs if a semi-bad twins spawn happens.

[placid portal]

Or you tag crusher with krak and they overhead down a random right after it blows

[vapid nacelle]

I have yet to try havoc

[unreal nova]

Toss at not rodin.

[placid portal]

My favorite part of smoke is you can force specials to move into you and force ranged enemies to close in on you

[vapid nacelle]

I think I'd be executed trying to go into havoc with the stuff I usually run so I'm avoiding that for now lol

[wanton vapor]

Low level havoc is pretty chill up until like 20 I think

Or 30

[unreal nova]

Depends on the team.

And is chill up to 24.

[placid portal]

Best team is the 4 ogyrns

[vapid nacelle]

at some point I'll look into it maybe

[unreal nova]

25 is when you start needing to be serious if not the top players.

[vapid nacelle]

but I'm still enjoying auric maelstrom

[unreal nova]

30+ is when you need to tryhard for most.

[vapid nacelle]

yeah I figured as much

I can't make myself tryhard in games so

[unreal nova]

Watching randoms fold in less than 10 secs is normal.

[vapid nacelle]

I guess that's why I haven't tried yet

auric mael is pretty comfortable for me and I haven't gotten bored of it at all

[mortal roost]

Vet buddies, I need some slight counseling: is the Deadshot talent worth investing on?

[placid portal]

Depends on weapon

And passive choice imo

[vapid nacelle]

I use it on a hyper glass recon lasgun build

[placid portal]

Personally I wont run deadshot without duck and cover

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

[vapid nacelle]

I'm not gonna say if it's a good or bad choice because frankly I just run whatever I feel like but it's fun

[unreal nova]

Usually no. If you use autos, even more no.

[placid portal]

100% stonks with Agripinaa Revolvo highnoon build

[vapid nacelle]

dare I send this eldritch horror build

[unreal nova]

You are better off pathing weakpoint damage even.

[mortal roost]

I was just having second thoughts cause, while the crit chance buff is nice and all, I don't like how most of the time I'm out of stamina and dodges, makes me feel really sluggish when disengaging from ADS

[vapid nacelle]

this with VIc Recon and triple stamina curios is what I like to use it for

[placid portal]

Especially when vet has worst stamina recovery stat

[vapid nacelle]

I usually just go entire games never needing to melee and taking like 2 ammo boxes at most

[unreal nova]

Why take weakpoint damage and skip deadshot on anything that isn't a single shot.

[mortal roost]

It does feel pretty rough lol, makes me feel like I'm playing my psyker without a stam curio

[tall torrent]

95% of the time, no

too much investment for what it's worth

the other 5% of the time, situational

[placid portal]

Duck and Cover too good

[tall torrent]

psyker doesn't need stamina curio

[hollow ibex]

Scab is gonna eat your legs

[placid portal]

Ghost + Duck and Cover

[mortal roost]

Really? Even with just 3 or 2 stamina bars from force swords?

[placid portal]

Deadshot Laspistol build

Psyker regen stamina super fast iirc?

[tall torrent]

yea, psyker has the best stamina regen delay

so u basically never get stamina issues

[hollow ibex]

Yeah basically instant lol

[placid portal]

I thought zealot has best stamina regen delay? Or is it close 2nd

[mortal roost]

I'll take note on it. I'm slightly less bad with psyker nowadays so I might pull it off lol

[tall torrent]

almost all stamina related problems with veteran can be summed up as "my stam regen delay is not good enough"

[tall torrent]

0.75s

psyker is 0.5s

veteran and ogryn are 1s (but veteran can spec into stam regen delay nodes at the cost of dps/utility to get to 0.75s or even 0.5s)

[faint beacon]

which hurts on a Breakpoint class

[placid portal]

Getting both is pretty point heavy ngl

[faint beacon]

which then loops into the "Veteran Tax" discussion

[unreal nova]

Is psyker, they get net positive sprint sliding.

[tall torrent]

yea which is why usually u can't accord either

[hollow ibex]

Getting one is point heavy 😭

[tall torrent]

more dmg is just better

[unreal nova]

Garh, bloody karking smokers.

[tall torrent]

and u can cope with stamina drain most of the time with sprint efficiency

since most of ur stamina cost is gonna be from sprinting

and extra stamina doesn't really make ur push atks better

[placid portal]

Vets all got the Trench legs, too stiffened from sitting in their holes holding the ground

[tall torrent]

push atk is still ultimately more dependent on stam regen delay more than total stamina

[hollow ibex]

Not enough cardio

[unreal nova]

Vet too taxed to even skill keystones on that thing.

[vapid nacelle]

this is probably bad but it is fun

[unreal nova]

No, annoyed at stupid smokers assaulting me with it atm IRL.

[placid portal]

Veterans paying more in taxes because he didnt listen to Grugg's tax advice on deductions and tax returns

[unreal nova]

TAxes on the taxed class soontm

[crude star]

wuld the plasma gun changes affect what the ideal stats are

[tall torrent]

no

[crude star]

ok

[tall torrent]

no mentions of thermal resist related changes

so no change

[placid portal]

Unless they kill uncharged and make it charged shot based

[vapid nacelle]

I want to use Focus Target but I am genuinely so bad at getting good use out of it

I am not good at tagging stuff for the bonus

[crude star]

is that not the point?

[unreal nova]

Just tag anything you shoot as last resort.

[vapid nacelle]

that's the thing

I forget to

[slow spade]

na the plasma gun changes want to make charged shot actually worth it

[vapid nacelle]

I just forget to tag unless it's important

[slow spade]

currently the only time you would charge is if you like "really" need something dead

[placid portal]

Dunno I guess it shifted several months ago to uncharged spam because no penaulty at 100% heat firing uncharged

[slow spade]

such as a poxwalker that's being annoying

[tall torrent]

no

the change in CN patch notes make it so both modes matter

and that's not final either

[unreal nova]

Oh. I just can't tag easily without doing a sitting duck.

[tall torrent]

I highly doubt there'll be plasma changes in 1.8

maybe post-1.8 patches

[placid portal]

CN? Chinese get earlier patch notes?

[slow spade]

just tag when you can

[tall torrent]

they got a different version
that's not the final version

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist is like 90% melee, 10% ranged

[vapid nacelle]

I wish I could do better at not forgetting but alas

[slow spade]

so it's not like you're getting much value there either

[vapid nacelle]

the only time I remember I actually have it is when it's a monstrosity

[slow spade]

oh that's another problem then lol

[placid portal]

Yea, I always tag elite specials when I can

Usually the high threat in my opinion

[vapid nacelle]

it's not like I don't tag stuff its just I don't remember to tag stuff often enough to actually get the most out of it xD

[unreal nova]

Without outright doing the dick move of putting it on shoot, I know. I just keystoneless or WS.

[vapid nacelle]

I usually opt to put the point elsewhere

[slow spade]

keystoneless but getting Agile Engagement is my go-to

[vapid nacelle]

half the time I end up keystoneless

[placid portal]

When will Marksmenfocus not be sad

[vapid nacelle]

I use it for funny damage number

it wouldn't be my first poor decision

wait no

[tall torrent]

full rework, then maybe

[vapid nacelle]

Marksman

I got Marksman and Executioner Stance mixed up

[orchid hemlock]

The great stamina Regen versus sprint debate has begun again

[vapid nacelle]

I don't think people here would like my curios now

[tall torrent]

running 3x sprint efficiency on veteran is like switching from 1080p to 1440p

[orchid hemlock]

What about Regen? 🎤

[tall torrent]

honestly can't tell a difference

only class where stamina regen rate is really worth it is zealot

[placid portal]

90% stam cost reduction is big ngl

[vapid nacelle]

90%?

[tall torrent]

purely because their base stam regen rate is high

[orchid hemlock]

Ogryn can now take it because it no longer likes taking toughness Regen

[tall torrent]

not worth

[placid portal]

Isnt it -30% per node?

[vapid nacelle]

for sprinting?

it's -15%

[tall torrent]

all classes but zealot have the same stamina regen rate of 1/s

zealot is 1.5/s

[vapid nacelle]

or am I misunderstanding

[tall torrent]

so with 3x stam regen rate, u get >2/s

which is actually really noticeable

[placid portal]

? But game says +12% iirc

[tall torrent]

and zealot doesn't have gimped stam regen delay so it's actually there

[tall torrent]

no

sprint efficiency is /0.85 per curio perk

stacks multiplicatively

so 3x is /(0.85^3)

which is around 63% higher sprint duration for the same stamina amount

[orchid hemlock]

Then what should I take on Ogryn? 🤔

[placid portal]

[tall torrent]

gunner, toughness, sprint, CDR, whatever

[orchid hemlock]

Idk about sprint for Ogryn tho 🤔

[tall torrent]

sprint is not necessary

depends on weapon ig

[orchid hemlock]

I've tried sprint before, I felt that since I constantly push attack stam Regen was better most of the time

Especially on shield

[tall torrent]

yea well

shield's sprint cost is atrocious

so bad that even 3x sprint efficiency won't save it

but if ur on smth like cleaver IV

3x sprint eff

u can zoom

ogryn with cleaver runs faster than veteran btw

[unreal nova]

You can just take the on stagger, restore stam though on slab.

[tall torrent]

+0.594m/s sprint bonus

[tall torrent]

that talent is honestly super overrated

I don't think it's worth most of the time

[unreal nova]

Depends on the nonsense you are doing.

[tall torrent]

there's like 1 meme build that can use it well

and that's not even good

[unreal nova]

Push bonk.

[tall torrent]

no no

concentrate

[unreal nova]

Brittle+FnP stacks.

[tall torrent]

brittle node is meh

[deep sun]

as if veteran has any heavy weapons

[hollow ibex]

Bolter and plasma seem quite heavy

[deep sun]

yes true but from enough training they can run with them no problem

where is their own stubbers it would do same damage as a normal autogun but beltfed

in the image in the game it shows veteran carrying their own stubber

and im talking about normal infantry ones not ogryn graded

[unreal forge]

that keystone is unusable without autotag ngl

that mod is the one thing that makes it worth

if not, use the scrollwheel for tagging

[crude star]

gameplay mods...

[unreal forge]

hardly, it just makes you tag stuff every few seconds. Same thing as if you did it on your own, just takes the load off

[crude star]

heh

[unreal forge]

could similarly just make an autohotkey script to do it lol

[earnest dew]

Please do not auto tag, it's a good way to get kicked out of a lobby.

[unreal forge]

or a keyboard macro like razor provides

[crude star]

that is equivalent to m, honestly

[unreal forge]

never in 280 hours have I seen someone get kicked at all

even for clearly throwing a game, people just don't interact with the kick system

[earnest dew]

I have lol.

[unreal forge]

evidently

[loud belfry]

that mod has an adjustable delay

[earnest dew]

also you should be trying to tag around 3-5 stacks. if you just tagging at one stack you're getting little value out of it.

[unreal forge]

watching for stacks is just unsupportable

i'm not gonna be looking down trying to find the ideal focus target number to put on one of the 30 crushers onscreen

[earnest dew]

I mean if you used focus target long enough you'll get a rhytm of it.

but that's just me.

[unreal forge]

it's entirely a passive bonus

too annoying to genuinely play around of

like every other veteran keystone

[rotund tartan]

Skill issue

[hollow ibex]

Nah

[earnest dew]

I guess that's not a me problem as I manage just fine.

I will say if you're running deadshot

and you use the tag that gives stamina back

good times.

Also neat when a burster jumps someone, tag it, and get your stamina back

[faint beacon]

M2 is right there

Skissue

[unreal forge]

I agree with this

It's especially annoying when you realize that, if any other class had the Plasma Gun, then Veteran would become a throw pick

Zealot and Psyker would be WAY better with the Plasma Gun than Veteran is

[midnight totem]

Weapon draw slow? And here I am clamoring for fatshark to remove one motion and gimme back vanguard

[faint beacon]

Thats why we should give them Plasma

[unreal forge]

the point is that Plasma Gun is Veteran's holy grail

[earnest dew]

Pysker and Zealot would run out of ammo 10 minutes in.

[loud belfry]

give ogryn super plas gun

[unreal forge]

You don't run out of ammo on the plasma because your whole team agrees to give you all the ammo in the map for it

[earnest dew]

I mean if you're pugging and you have a vet with survivalist.

[unreal forge]

not because of survivalist

[unreal nova]

I see you don't pub.

[unreal forge]

I do but I know that under ideal circumstances (of which I have not often enough been a part of) that is the case

[earnest dew]

Also vet get

25% more ammo with always prepared.

[unreal nova]

I did mean the latter part tbh. In pubs ammo is FFA for most part.

Better teams just give it to lowest ammo.

[unreal forge]

I'm speaking havoc really

[unreal nova]

Yes.

[unreal forge]

frigging anything goes outside of Havoc

[unreal nova]

No diff.

[unreal forge]

it's just a sad case that, whenever you're playing Veteran without a plasma gun, you're just playing a worse psyker/zealot

[unreal nova]

They just spare more thoughts on letting others take if they are in red.

[unreal forge]

and I do genuinely believe this

I would rather have a zealot or psyker with any build than a veteran without a plasma gun

[solar valve]

can yall wait for official patch notes to come out first

lol

[unreal nova]

Vet gets worse. Predicted.

[unreal forge]

a vet without a plasma gun is like he's missing half his build, that weapon carries the class

[solar valve]

the charged shot will still be fine

[unreal forge]

yes but it will tighten ammo even further

[hollow ibex]

ps: am i a joke to you

[solar valve]

I was not running out even in H40

[hollow ibex]

one of the strongest melee weapons in the game

[solar valve]

itll be fine

yeah Achlys PS is insane

[hollow ibex]

and honestly bolter is stronger than plasma outside of havoc

[solar valve]

Vet will be fine lol

true

[hollow ibex]

vet as a whole is in a bitch of a spot, but it's def not carried by just plasma

[solar valve]

I wish bolter wasnt a trap in havoc

[unreal forge]

wow *activates weapon* the *activates weapon* power *activates weapon* sword *activates weapon* is *activates weapon* such *activates weapon* a fun *activates weapon* weapon *activates weapon* to *activates weapon* use

[tame lodge]

Being boring doesn't mean it's bad

Dueling Sword is boring

Top melee in the game

[unreal forge]

dueling sword doesn't require you to slow down and watch an animation every 4 swings man

[tame lodge]

[solar valve]

Id rather have PS than DS lol

[unreal nova]

Uh huh. You do realise Vet is currently already the worst class.

[faint beacon]

Plasma is incredibly boring

[unreal forge]

power sword is so, so annoying to use

[faint beacon]

best ranged weapon on vet

Bolter being second

[unreal forge]

it's entirely useless if it's not activated

[solar valve]

Its not hard to weave in activations

[tame lodge]

Well yes

[solar valve]

and block cancel strings

[faint beacon]

nah nerf it

nerf it more

[tame lodge]

Still top 1 vets melee weapon

[unreal forge]

just because the weapon is the best I wouldn't automatically call it boring lol
plasma gun such an interesting weapon, its sound design and visual design are impeccable and extremely well done, the weapon FEELS GOOD to use

so many things about it light up when you fire it, there's even a heat gauge

[unreal nova]

Plasma is boring. Just delayed point and click.

[unreal forge]

huh sounds like every single firearm in the game

[tame lodge]

Nope

[unreal forge]

you point and you click?

[tame lodge]

No delay on click to fire

[unreal nova]

The delay is from click to fire.

There's that charge up even for lmb.

[tame lodge]

Yeah I'm talking about his statement

Smh

[spark canopy]

fuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyou

[unreal forge]

I'll enjoy the charge up being more useful but for the love of God make the other weapons at least half as appealing as the plasma gun first

[midnight totem]

What would you buff about vet

[solar valve]

infiltrate

[unreal nova]

Maybe I should nap. Waiting for the caffeine to hit like a truck so I crash into bed.

[unreal forge]

the class needs a whole ogryn-like talent tree rework

[solar valve]

the tree routing is also ass

[tame lodge]

For starters
Cut half of the tree down

Make it more accessible

[midnight totem]

I would love an infiltrate buff

[solar valve]

bro istg

[unreal nova]

Currently? Remove all minor nodes and give it to vet directly.

[solar valve]

why does weapon specialist have so many pre reqs

I dont get it

[unreal nova]

So you have more points to spend.

[solar valve]

it actually takes forever to reach to your keystones

[unreal nova]

Make all 'nade choices free, so you aren't taxed horribly to pick an aura.

[solar valve]

ya

seriously

[unreal forge]

i drew the only good veteran builds from memory

[solar valve]

infiltrate, marksmans focus, tree routing

all need buffs

[midnight totem]

Here's hoping arbites update brings some vet love too

[unreal nova]

So ppl can go smoke into survivalist without extra taxes.

[unreal forge]

I'm completely leaving veteran for arbites bruh

[midnight totem]

Good

[tame lodge]

Have fun

[loud belfry]

zealot chat 2 here we come

[unreal nova]

Exe stance reloads on use again, now provides 3 to 6% toughness regen in it.

IDK how number balance be like. 6% is half oggy ads.

[earnest dew]

This is not bad.

[spark canopy]

with teammates that actually listen, probably

but i've been doing this in publics

[unreal nova]

Infil now combines everything except the lower aggro and 2 uses into baseline.

[spark canopy]

on heresy, no less.
the festering breeding grounds for the angriest and most toxic players imaginable

[earnest dew]

I live in auric as a base so there is no shortages of specials and elites to shoot.

[loud belfry]

seems easy unless you gotta do it in one game but idt you do

[unreal nova]

Longshot is now ramping damage based on the time from when you were last hit in melee.

To a cap.

[unreal forge]

My suggestion for Exestance

• Outlines Ogryns basekit
• Every kill provides a flat 5-10% toughness
• Every weakspot kill provides 5% toughness damage reduction (max 8 stacks) lasting 10-15 seconds after ability use ends
• Extra node lets you give half of the TDR to allies
• CD is increased to 35-40s

this is stupid why would you reward veteran for shooting things

[earnest dew]

Because he was the intended range class?

[spark canopy]

you mean to tell me

[unreal forge]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-bateman-of-course-gif-27148175

[spark canopy]

the class with the most perks designed for ranged weaponry

and the most diverse range weapons (barring those spark'eads)

wait nvm

i fell for the rage bait

[unreal forge]

lol

I think marksman focus should be reworked to be most cleave-focused so you can give big cleave to weapons that don't have it

that could be interesting

[formal ice]

No

Head go kaboom

[solar valve]

marksman focus should be focused on crouching

better yet

make veteran prone

[unreal forge]

I love standing still and crouching

it's so viable and cool

[unreal nova]

Someone did ask how I would buff vet.

[formal ice]

Do we tell him?

[unreal forge]

i think vet needs not buffs but his talent tree needs a rework in many aspects

[tame lodge]

He'll probably get one after zealot

[unreal forge]

his auras, marksman focus and kraks and smokes need looking into

[formal ice]

The Havoc guys disagree

[unreal forge]

weapon specialist needs to be a proper hybrid keystone, because right now it is 90:10 melee/ranged

[crude star]

eh, smokes are pretty nice. I would maybe like some minor suppression for melee units or something

[unreal nova]

More 3-4 to 1.

[formal ice]

Heretics have the same vision as us

[unreal forge]

weapons specialist could be that instead of a flat crit chance for ONE SHOT after you swap to your ranged weapon, it could be a lasting crit chance for a few seconds

[formal ice]

Did you know that

That they have eyes

[crude star]

nope

the emperor gives us vision

[formal ice]

He guides the path

Not give us eyes

[unreal forge]

like guys I'm not reading this wrong, right? weapon specialist for your gun only applies the crit chance for 1 shot

[tame lodge]

Cues blind faith cosmetic

[formal ice]

As I say

Guides the path

[tame lodge]

Such a good cosmetic

[hollow ibex]

yup

[hollow ibex]

i don't think that's necessary

WS is already super powerful right now

[unreal forge]

for your melee

for your gun it is an entirely unnoticeable laughable buff

(ranged class btw)

[hollow ibex]

you're playing it wrong

[unreal forge]

how

[hollow ibex]

vet's more of a hybrid class now these days

the meta has shifted

[unreal forge]

bro he's terrible

[void dragon]

DBshotgun triggering its cleave and bleed almost on command:

[hollow ibex]

use a revolver, DB shotgun or plasma

[unreal forge]

it's only useful for very few weapons but it completely misses the mark on 90% of the arsenal

[tame lodge]

That's Psyker

[void dragon]

it doesnt have to work for every weapon

its a CqC keystone

[hollow ibex]

you can also use other weapons too if you want, they just won't be as synergistic

[unreal forge]

I can't be the crazy one for thinking that maybe the hybrid keystone for the ranged class should actually be hybrid and not melee-focused

because weapons specialist is melee-focused more than anything

if anything it turns you into a cheap zealot

[hollow ibex]

yeah... it's on the melee side of the tree lol

[void dragon]

more than hybrid is the close combat path, it improves a lot of the melee power but still buffs gunplay, but less

[hollow ibex]

not sure what you expected

[void dragon]

he wants the MMF keystone to do something similar, but MMF sucks

[hollow ibex]

just because it's a hybrid doesn't mean it needs to be literally 50/50

[unreal forge]

what's the point of being melee focused on veteran

it's just bad design

[tame lodge]

The hybrid keystone for the ranged class is pretty good for melee and ranged

Disrupt Destiny is such a good keystone

[unreal forge]

ikr

[void dragon]

engaging in the many melee fights the game will toss at you

[hollow ibex]

idk, it's still strong? and allows you to be extremely versatile?

the problem with melee vet isn't power

it's lack of weapon variety

[unreal forge]

the problem with melee vet is that you should play zealot

[unreal nova]

Because this isn't CoD?

[hollow ibex]

zealot doesn't do the hybrid playstyle anywhere near as well

[unreal forge]

yeah, zealot does it better

[faint beacon]

The game heavily punishes you for strictly sticking to Range

[void dragon]

zealot will never do guns as good as Vet in a melee build

[faint beacon]

Veteran's core mechanic has been shifted to be a pure Hybrid class

[unreal forge]

it's factual that having a strong melee is better than having a strong weapon in this game but veteran shouldn't be a cheaper zealot

[faint beacon]

range for specials and elites

[hollow ibex]

absolutely incorrect but ok

[faint beacon]

melee for everything else

[unreal forge]

weapons specialist is the best keystone because it turns veteran into a cheap zealot and that's terrible design in my view

[faint beacon]

1

No

2

[unreal nova]

Well, Zealot survives longer on avg and that's about it

[void dragon]

it is indeed a terrible design, thankfuly that's not true

[faint beacon]

Always prepared actively encoruages you to swap to a low ammo weapon encouraging the hyrbid playstyle you're literally describing

[hollow ibex]

vet has better piss toughness

[faint beacon]

Revolvers, Shottys, DB, etc

[unreal forge]

there's one thing that veteran does better than zealot when it comes to ranged weapons, and that's solely and only the plasma gun

[void dragon]

honestly the more i play vet it feels more like the grenadier class than the gun class, EVERYONE has guns

[faint beacon]

You're smoking a crack pipe

[hollow ibex]

man i'm like the biggest vet apologist out there and even i can't agree with you

[faint beacon]

@uncut pebble You can back me up on this

Veteran

makes the Vigilant

[void dragon]

that's SO wrong

[faint beacon]

work the best

[tame lodge]

Nope

[uncut pebble]

I can, in fact, back him up on this.

[faint beacon]

all the other classes aside from MAYBE a niche SG build

[tame lodge]

Waaaay better breakpoints

[unreal forge]

I'm entirely correct on this

[faint beacon]

can make the Vigilants work

[uncut pebble]

Vigilant is fucking unusable on scriers and zeal.

There's so many talents needed just to actually specialist snipe its unreal.

[tame lodge]

That's the thing
You're not

[unreal forge]

veteran makes the bad weapon work not as bad
????

[faint beacon]

Veteran makes it work the most

[faint beacon]

because its the fucking class that buffs range more what more do you need to ask

lets see

hmmm

[unreal forge]

why would anyone want to use the autogun

[void dragon]

because boolets?

[faint beacon]

I wonder what this is

[tame lodge]

The infantry autogun has the best dps in the game

[faint beacon]

Good ammo economy?????

[void dragon]

why people want to use flamer? maybe because FIRE?!!

[faint beacon]

Literally thats why you use the Vigils

extremely good ammo econ

[unreal forge]

no one uses vigils

ever

[faint beacon]

skill expression of hitting heads and being rewarded it

yes they do you just dont pay attention

[unreal forge]

there is no one using vigils on havoc

[faint beacon]

@narrow frost

Me

[hollow ibex]

gale's time to shine

[unreal forge]

even in auric I think you'd struggle to find someone using a weapon so boring

[faint beacon]

Lets see who else

[tame lodge]

Don't generalize

Weak argument

[unreal forge]

that's just such a terrible argument

[faint beacon]

Literally talking to the guy who MAINS

the Agri IX

[tame lodge]

Real

[unreal forge]

"well actually the worst class can make the worst weapon halfway decent"

[faint beacon]

and i shit on Plasma users bro

[unreal forge]

I'm sure you do

[faint beacon]

Yeah I fucking do

[tame lodge]

It's not the worst weapon

[faint beacon]

Skill issue bro

[void dragon]

why are you talking about Paul? veteran doesnt even use Paul

[faint beacon]

Going dark evil veteran main cause im tired of the "X weapons are bad" cause the blatantly overpowered weapons are finally being tuned

LMAO

[unreal forge]

defending vet this much is insane cope but the uncomfortable truth is that every other class would be better with the plasma gun than vet

take away vet's plasma gun and he's worse than any other class in every way

[faint beacon]

Do they have a resource of Infinite ammo

no

no they dont

[tame lodge]

Nope

[spark canopy]

hear me out

[void dragon]

there is a difference between saying vet needs adjustments to its perk tree and telling lies about melee veteran

[tame lodge]

Vet has the best breakpoints

[unreal forge]

ah right, I forgot about the incredible depth Veteran possesses of being an ammo monkey class

[spark canopy]

melta gun

[faint beacon]

Ogryn is only better atm cause its so ludicrously over-scaled

[unreal forge]

existing and giving ammo is incredible design and depth to a class that makes it fun

[spark canopy]

hear me out hear me out

[faint beacon]

The cope is fucking insane holy shit

[spark canopy]

stalker bolt rifle

[unreal forge]

no no no, tell me about how an aura is so incredible and valuable and good design in making a class not worthless

[void dragon]

honestly hope they nerf its damage in next patch, wnat to use the class and not feel op

[faint beacon]

CASUALLY IGNORING THE HELBY BUFFS

LIKE THAT SHIT IS HUGE

[spark canopy]

it should keep it's damage against poxwalkers and hordes

[unreal forge]

I guess you can also press one button to give your teammates piss health, that's very very interesting

[faint beacon]

Like if the swap speed is insanely fast now, it might actually be an S tier vet gun

[spark canopy]

get a decrease against elites and monstrosities

boom

ogryn fixed

[void dragon]

Why is the man so focused on moving away from its own original point and now going into stuf EVERYONE AGREES?

[faint beacon]

I can tell he never bothered playing EStance

[tame lodge]

As piss health is the most broken thing in the game

[faint beacon]

lmao

[tame lodge]

[unreal forge]

It is

it's one of the very few things making Vet exist at all

[faint beacon]

And thats why Duty and Honor should be removed

and reworked into TDR/DR

[unreal forge]

pressing 1 button, having 1 passive, having 1 broken gun

[tame lodge]

Oh so it's not only plasma

Why did you lie to us then

[faint beacon]

@tame lodge Bolter Estance?

[unreal forge]

Vet is the definition of a one-trick pony

[orchid hemlock]

idk I dont think survivalist is nearly as good as people think it is

[void dragon]

that's my point

[tame lodge]

It's the best build for bolter

[faint beacon]

Close and Kill and Fireteam are pretty solid choices

[tame lodge]

[faint beacon]

Close and Kill is more impactful though

Fireteam is just there if you need a small boost

doesn't hurt taking

Fireteam DOES have the best pathing though

[void dragon]

close and kill is good but idk about fire team, considering how perk point starved is the Vet perk tree

[orchid hemlock]

smokes are also very underated

[solar valve]

ES bolter is love, ES bolter is life

smokes are better in high havocs

[void dragon]

smokes are awesome

[faint beacon]

Hello psyker bubble that doesn't get dropped

[faint beacon]

or any Gun seed match on Auric

but thats just rng

yes there's "seeds" like minecraft real that decide what enemy pool you'll get

Melee, Ranged, Mixed

[orchid hemlock]

the issue with Vet is just that it's supposed to be a specialist killer, but everyone else in the game is also good at killing specialist if you just pay attention so it kinda gets oversaturated

[faint beacon]

etc

[unreal forge]

plasma gun is the best specialist killer :)

[void dragon]

the capacity to make gunners need to move into Power sword reach is amazing in any difficulty if you ask me

[faint beacon]

One of

[solar valve]

ogryn is prob the worst at killing specs, and its not bad at all

[orchid hemlock]

plasma is very good, but not because its a specialist killer it's because it ignores everything in front of the target you are aiming at

[faint beacon]

Helbore and Bolter have a solid place in havoc 40

besides if we're bitching about Auric

[unreal forge]

of course, you can't lose rank in havoc 40

[solar valve]

Bolter is too ammo hungry

[faint beacon]

you can literally use anything

[solar valve]

for what it does

[faint beacon]

lmao

[void dragon]

not for long!

[orchid hemlock]

Recon and Hellbore I would argue are better at the highest level content because of ammo efficiency

[solar valve]

exactly

[faint beacon]

I'd argue Vigilants also

they have some pretty spicy ammo econ

[orchid hemlock]

[unreal forge]

The nerfs won't be nearly as bad as in the leaked post

[faint beacon]

he hasn't played Vigilants in H40 I can tell lmao

[solar valve]

Bolter drops off because of how unwieldy it is and the ammo to performance. It just doesnt hit breakpoints in high havocs

[unreal forge]

The plasma gun changes are ready, they just didn't like them enough to release them. It's why they were written down and everything

[orchid hemlock]

laspistol is goated if you understand how to use it too

ILG is also fun, the problem is that it does no damage to armored targets

[unreal forge]

So, chances are that they're gonna tweak the weapon further. Most likely not nerf it as much as it was first planned to, now that the community saw it and doesn't like it.

[void dragon]

that's fair, plasma needs some adjustments to make its M2 more tasty, but the reduction of cleave and damage on M1 is a good frame of start

[orchid hemlock]

plasma also gets fucked in havoc due to the breakpoints not existing anymore

there is a huge difference in being able to 2 shot versus 3 shot a crusher

[tame lodge]

That 100 to 10 is diabolical

It actually sucks

[solar valve]

Im never using plasma for crushers

its bait

[tame lodge]

It basically means that your M1 has ~5 cleave

[faint beacon]

M2:

[tame lodge]

That's 4 walkers

[void dragon]

it also apply to M2?

[faint beacon]

No

[tame lodge]

No
That's 10

[faint beacon]

M2 maintains all the unnerfed features

they're encouraging M2 usage

which is a huge start

because Plasma is supposed to be a risk-reward weapon

you cant just spam M1 and never vent cause of the M1 safety vent feature

m2 overheating will kill you

[unreal forge]

agree

[void dragon]

what I understood is that M1 has 10 cleave but M2 would still have immense cleave

[faint beacon]

so you're bound to see a lot of Babys first plasma users fucking die

LMAO

[void dragon]

Me when patch drops trying to learn Plasma vet

[faint beacon]

M1 no longer pierces Bulwarks shields

but

M2 does

[void dragon]

neat

[faint beacon]

if above 80% dont M2

its that simple

[tame lodge]

Ok so
Plasma gun has 1 attack template
It's used for M1 and M2
The difference is that M1 only charges a little, around ~50%
So nerfing the cleave might affect the weapon as a whole

[void dragon]

this knowledge is actually really useful

[faint beacon]

cause it will overcharge and detonate

basically you become your average pub psyker

constantly dying from Perils

[tame lodge]

It's why blessings with "charge" requirements work for M1

Like power blast granting around 15% CRIT chance on m1

[faint beacon]

the reason the cleave value on m1 isn't bothering me is because

its designed

to be a Special/Elite sniper

its not meant to be used for horde clear

[unreal nova]

10 cleave is still shoot through 2-3 things.

[faint beacon]

I never understood that about plasma vets spamming into hordes

[tame lodge]

Woops
Can't hit a flamer/trapper through horde now

~5 cleave

4 walkers

[faint beacon]

Yeah again they're pushing for M2 usage

[void dragon]

yeah, but not as absurd as one-frigging-hundred

[faint beacon]

they'll probably have M1 be 20 if I'll be honest

they're trying to push Vets off M1 spam builds

which is healthy

[tame lodge]

Dangerous enemy approaching
Lemme pull out my gun

And charge

Could you please wait

[unreal nova]

This is just hellbore.

[faint beacon]

Beefier helbore

[tame lodge]

Someone should make a comic about this

[tame lodge]

See what I mean

Because everybody wants to pull out their weapon

Charge it up

Shoot

Then change again to deal with whatever melee enemy

[faint beacon]

But we're in a dilemma that still encourages

[tame lodge]

[faint beacon]

the fuck is the point of M2ing

ever

[tame lodge]

According to the leaks
It'll be Unyielding specialist

As M1 will be nerfed against it

Which does make me wonder how Blaze Away Optimized Cooling will fare

I like that combo

[faint beacon]

Probably

idk

[tame lodge]

Maaaan

We gotta hurry up and wait

[faint beacon]

Actually shit

you know what

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/jumanji-kevin-hart-i-hate-this-i-hate-this-game-jumanji-welcome-to-the-jungle-gif-17133183

[faint beacon]

Damage or Crit more important on plasma

[tame lodge]

But with CRIT I could do more damage

[faint beacon]

Might have a use also

Rising Heat + Optimized Cooling perchance?

so you can ride high heat without the risk of Dying via M2

This is why I enjoy the idea they're going behind cause I genuinely want M2 builds

[void dragon]

Will my "gets hot"/"rising heat" still be good?

[faint beacon]

I mean

yeah

its based on just in general heat temp

[earnest dew]

Damn ya got me.

[faint beacon]

So it really wont get hit as hard outside of DPS cause like thats all thats really happening @void dragon

[void dragon]

just got into learning Vet and i got a perfect plasma, hopium is that it will still be good but we shall see

[faint beacon]

Again it just boils down to, is it M1 spam?

yes?

it will be effected somewhat

[faint beacon]

Stats will remain the same even after the supposed changes

so god roll plas's are still good to keep

[crude star]

which combat blade mark do yall prefer

[crude star]

cuz of the stabby push?

[unreal nova]

3 is zel only tbh and generally worse.

[unreal nova]

Heavy for slapping horde with bleed. But yes, the PA is good. Just need to poke heds.

Just light spam to head for uncanny first.

[tame lodge]

Yeah
It also chains faster than mk3 push attack

About 10% faster

[crude star]

is there a place with a list of all the sprint speeds per weapon

[vapid thunder]

dying via what

[faint beacon]

M2 on Plasma

it doesn't have a safety net feature

[neon pecan]

Is Hot Spot good on Helbore?

[vapid thunder]

oh it explode if you overcharge?

psyker style?

[faint beacon]

yes

[quiet valley]

Surgical is the only blessing that matters tbh, I pair it with Armorbane but your second choice doesnt really matter

[neon pecan]

What about for Mk3?

[quiet valley]

I use the same for all marks

[neon pecan]

Does armourbane apply to first shot dmg as well or only following ones?

[crude star]

latter

[tall torrent]

no wtf lol

it would be unarmored + maniac

why unyielding + specialist

[tame lodge]

No not that meaning

Specializing in Unyielding

[tall torrent]

why

[tame lodge]

Just saw the Unyielding nerf on m1 and the unyielding buff on m2

Why does m1 have "2" as a value

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blink-blinkingcat-cute-funny-gif-8859604814399687515

You know
I never really stopped to look at plasma

https://tenor.com/view/jetstream-sam-my-beloved-gif-22029076

[hollow ibex]

wait

we have a plasma gun in the game?

[severe jolt]

NOOO DON'T NERF PLSS
NOT MUH SHITTY UNFUNNY CRUTCH WEAPONS

[signal zinc]

https://youtu.be/eOaEjJz-6jg?si=IeTrYYrE8Smpsq2o

Traitors: we have daemons and countless numbers at our side, what can you possibly do?

My ass with a shovel:

[unreal forge]

it kinda looks liek to me that they got the values mixed up lol

LMAO this guy is so right

[sharp epoch]

just play ogryn they got their own plasma gun basically

[tame lodge]

This statement is false

https://tenor.com/view/honestreaction-gif-27666449

[severe jolt]

I like how there's these normal looking guys chopping shit in half and breaking blocks of ice by throwing the shovel
then this tough guy comes on
what's he gonna do? bet it's gonna be real badass
and he starts digging a hole

[signal zinc]

He's not digging a hole, he's killing the ground

[severe jolt]

gonna murder the entire planet with that shovel

[signal zinc]

Khornate behavior

[frank basin]

https://youtu.be/upFbTlInjQs?si=x0UVe_iZoAjA1h5e

it is today

Tomorrow is the LA part

[weak lark]

Finally reached rank 30 on Vet.

Am I invited to the slumberparties now?

[frank basin]

Your level not really matter to play havoc with random since they only look after you have frames and insignia

The rest gamemode you can play normally without being interfere by someone

But primary is about your skill play and cunning how can you deal high pressure difficulty (otherwise just play casual damnation)

[weak lark]

Am I invited to the damn party or not.

[frank basin]

You can get party invitations regardless level, only from friend or someone in #vox-lfg-lexicanum

Because no one know who you are in Morningstar

[weak lark]

Brother I mean like, in a joking way.

I'm not actually asking for party invites, lol

[frank basin]

I don’t have humor detection modular

[weak lark]

Lol you're good

[midnight wyvern]

Lmao

[dusty nacelle]

The singletarget attack combo for PS6 is charge sword > push attack light repeat right?

[narrow frost]

Special, push attack light light

Yes

[trim steppe]

I'm ready to drop some resources on a shiny new Arbites kit

[weak lark]

Goddamn

I need a loan

[cunning sandal]

:D

Me too

[umbral scaffold]

I'm thinking of trying out the shovel I have never actually used it before if anyone has any pointers

[open ravine]

Thought the update would drop with the DLC

Guess I was wrong

[weak lark]

I’m pretty sure it is?

They just posted a blog talking about the update.

[lapis osprey]

what perks/blessings for DB(double barrel)high havoc?

[pseudo fiber]

Manstopper flechette and run it with weapon spec

[dusty nacelle]

Ik this is vet chat but what does a "perfect" combat blade look like? Planning to use it on my psyker but i'm sure it won't differ that much right

[lapis osprey]

Thanks

[pseudo fiber]

60 mobility with precognition uncanny

[graceful sundial]

Hellbore gets a slight buff

[pseudo fiber]

Or riposte uncanny

[dusty nacelle]

Perks?

[pseudo fiber]

Uhhh

Flak maniac?

Let me check

[tall torrent]

Flak
Unyielding

[dusty nacelle]

Ty!

[open ravine]

Weapon just got reworked so do some testing

[pseudo fiber]

Thanks path can't check stuff on mobile

[open ravine]

Nevermind I don't read properly

I just saw now live and assumed it was the update

[steep flower]

Same; after all i’m just a bonehead

[open ravine]

I made the mistake in thinking fatshark was being quick and thinking ahead

[steep flower]

I like that the story is gonna be more cohesive

Now it feels random, very ‚prototypic’

[open ravine]

But will story be like regular play where we get paired with other players or will we get story specific bots

[steep flower]

If they include specific/unique bots just like in the prologue its still gonna be nice imo

Or make it so you have regular 4 man team + the uniques

But probably its gonna be regular 4 man mission with more strict spawns and unique briefing

[open ravine]

If they do that I am gonna restart the argument that they should include single player or the ability for host to fill bot spots with our other characters

[steep flower]

Ok did not thought about single player mode with our own characters as bots

Could be neat

[open ravine]

They got ogryn bot AI but we don't get ogryn bots

[open ravine]

Basically just have what we have in vermintide

[steep flower]

But it would require alot of work cause there is no psyker bot variant and ogryn was only in prologue

[umbral scaffold]

Ok I just tried the shovel out pretty hecking strong what blessings do you guys run?

[steep flower]

I use mk3 and skullcrusher & decimator

It slaps, literally

[open ravine]

I wonder if arbites will have a larger selection of weapons like vet or more limited

[umbral scaffold]

Thank you I'll give it a try

[steep flower]

Most importantly; understand the moveset & utilize its every aspect in combat; experiment

[umbral scaffold]

Also just got my 250 games penance

But yeah I think i have a new favorite weapon

[open ravine]

And it is done got my last class need done now I got level 30 on all the classes

I wonder if arbites will release with penance or will that be introduced later

[bleak tendon]

Deffo with penance

I imagine they’ll be added on cosmetics in the battle pass where appropriate

[open ravine]

There was a leak that the base helmet for arbite will have a visor up version in the shop instead of doing the smarter choice and having it as a penance earnable

[pseudo fiber]

#general-chat message

Read my child

[wanton vapor]

You’re asking too much

[versed osprey]

Did the new update change the plasma meta in havoc?

[pseudo fiber]

No because there aren't any plasma nerfs yet

[faint beacon]

@tall torrent YOU CALLED ME INSANE

I KNEW THEY MADE AURIC A SEPARATE DIFFICULTY

[clever hedge]

A good change, will help keep players jumping to auric too soon and getting wrecked

[normal bay]

HAHAHAHHAHAHA, suuuuuuuure

Auric will be a hellscape for a bit

[sharp epoch]

what does auric being a separate difficulty do

is it still functionally the same

[winter hinge]

I've got a decent plan for what build to go for with all my other classes (psyker = fire horde clearer, zealot = fire horde clear version 2, ogryn = explosive horde clearer with a bit of fire) however I have zero clue for my Veteran who I wish to make into a good special sniper. What are some decent options for weapons and talents?

[sharp epoch]

precision weapons are better for anti specialist/ranged elites maybe like bolter, bolt pistol, revolver, plasma

[bleak tendon]

Oh very nice

[winter hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-anime-gif-21175096

[sharp epoch]

if you also want to deal with smaller enemies like shooters recon is good too

[bleak tendon]

I think, I think I’m seeing a pattern though I’m not sure…

[winter hinge]

Shush you're definitely imagining things

[winter hinge]

What about weapons like the Helbore Lasgun?

[sharp epoch]

they work but they are pretty jarring to get used to and at its current state its really unwieldy

highest zoom on a weapon while also highest pull out time

[winter hinge]

Ouch, high pull out time does not sound good

[normal bay]

Auric Damnation but they cranked the spawns a little more apparently

[pseudo fiber]

It's harder now apparently

According to cole at least

[sharp epoch]

meh even malestrom is too easy atp i doubt aurics will be harder

[winter hinge]

Also, got to check, is the smoke grenade good or is it something I should avoid?
Good as in somewhat useful, doesn't need to be best of the best sort of stuff, just at least somewhat useful and fun X3

[pseudo fiber]

It's

Got its uses yes

[winter hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-fair-enough-drinking-alcohol-drinking-demoman-gif-2655345297087108249

[sleek garden]

it messes around a lot with shooters, dogs ai breaks and they won't jump you in smoke, specialists have to get basically in your face to do their stuff

Enemies are less likely to target you in smoke but when there's 50 enemies every second they're going to eventually target you

it's not going to kill a group of scab gunners but it'll stop them from shooting at you so it's good for things like revives and doing objectives

[true jackal]

it's basically bubble but with infinite health and no toughness regen

[winter hinge]

Okay, got 2 talent builds in mind over going back and forth through the talent tree.

The first is what I original planned, major focus on ranged and sniping specials (was tempted by smoke but found that it cost too many talents to go back and forth).

The second... I noticed how many grenade talents the veteran gets and monkey ogryn brain took over, so a horde clear focused on support, grenades and bleed.

[sleek garden]

On my sharpshooter build, I got rid of that top right branch on the first image and instead put the points into grenade regen

You could get passive grenade regen and grenade regen on elite/specialist kill if you gave up a couple points

this way you can have lots of grenades to toss and still snipe with the infantry lasgun

[umbral scaffold]

is beast of nurgle still the easiest for "marked for death" penance?

[winter hinge]

Gave it some tweaking and yeah, definitely starts to look better to me now

[versed osprey]

so is the buff of the shotguns enough to make them usefull at havoc 40?

[normal bay]

Missing out on a lot of damage reduction, which will be useful for an exe stance build. Close order drill and Iron Will help a lot with this. No +25 toughness node either. What weapon are you running with this?

[winter hinge]

Ah, didn't pay attention to the small nodes
Well I was thinking Helbore Las and... maaaaaybe tactical axe?

[normal bay]

Prevention is be more useful than restoring lost toughness. I don't think hellbore needs reloaded as much either, so two reload talents seems a bit overkill.

Something more like this will net you more tdr and toughness and damage and still give you good toughness regen. Not super familiar with what is needed for hellbore damage breakpoints though

[winter hinge]

Good point, good point
So I replace one or both reload talents near the top for something that provides more tdr and toughness?

[normal bay]

I would recommend it, yes. Longshot is also a bait talent. It's not very good. That's why most won't use that left side at the top

[unreal nova]

Is it the the 4 weakspots in a row while in exe stance? Honestly, pogryn easy as well, even with a spray weapon.

[supple laurel]

brunt i absolutely DISGUST you

this game just pulled the biggest fuck you on me

made the fucking numbers REVERSED

[grand perch]

@tired egret is amused

[supple laurel]

it sucks ass too because

my main plasma gun

doesnt hit breakpoints to onetap body gunners

and i think its because im missing 2% on damage

[faint beacon]

Completely and utterly fucking trolled

[umbral scaffold]

been trying to complete it but not working out so well

[supple laurel]

that shit ruined my day 🥀

[winter hinge]

Improved!
Replacing some reload speed and toughness regeneration for tdr

[unreal nova]

Take a recon, fast blue mark.

Ads and Brrrrrrrr in exe stance.

You are more likely to hit the head 4x in a row than you think.

Grab a yellow stim just in case.

[umbral scaffold]

ill try that

[hollow ibex]

Too many talents in the bottom of the tree. Are you even trying?

[winter hinge]

[unreal nova]

Just don't try on DH or CSpawn. Their weakspot area tiny.

Pogryn hed big.

BoN blister also big.

Pogryn has the bonus of being able to shoot a little higher so you risk less "neck" shots.

[umbral scaffold]

been trying in rando groups not much luck

[unreal nova]

Ah, best is just recon ads exe stance pogryn hed.

Don't need to rely on team to spin it around.

If it targets you, even easier if you trigger happy.

[steep flower]

I used them even now and they are nice

[cunning haven]

i saw this in my feed and it looks funny
https://youtu.be/g9nBh7uT7Ug?si=1vUvZfcqrRKy2E5n

[umbral scaffold]

Ill try it

thank you

[normal bay]

Personally, I would get rid of longshot, exhilarating takedown and killzone.

Longshot sounds a lot better than it actually performs, it's quite bad, like I said before.

Dropping them means you could get O4B or confirmed kill with a spare talent point.

Killzone can be replaced by superiority complex, which does the same thing against the relevant enemies with no requirement.

Extra point could go into precision strikes for the +30% weakspot damage

[noble epoch]

What is this for

[faint beacon]

@grand perch mentioned

[sonic kayak]

Beat me to it

[noble epoch]

And why is it running smoke grenades

[grand perch]

'ello

[normal bay]

Hellbore

[noble epoch]

Headshots I’m assuming?

To snipe specials

[faint beacon]

Wondering why like

the entire upper bottom middle tree is skipped out on

a good chunk of that is a Bread and butter need in Vet builds

[noble epoch]

Yeah

Especially tactical awareness and demo team (if you want to spam nades)

Though

Considering they are running smoke nades

Probably better to not get demo team

Or any other grenade talents

Wasted points

[grand perch]

certifiably untrue

you always want some kind of nade regen, outside of extremely niche meme builds

[hollow ibex]

tinkerer is also a huge difference

[frank basin]

No nade regen but demo team only when I target special or elites

[hollow ibex]

though my smoke builds usually end up with only demo stockpile