It’s DPS
#veteran-class
faint beacon
void dragon
recon damage is quite averange, its hold in a good spot because it can put fire damage quite fast
pair that with good ammo economy and the capacity to surgically hunt specialists and you have the ole reliable TF2 dispenser with a gun
hearty panther
ok i knew the new CAB was quite an improvement over the old one
but i hadnt actually had to clutch with it yet and my god, so nice
faint beacon
ok i knew the new CAB was quite an improvement over the old one
Idgaf what people say it’s literally static toughnesss regen if you never get hit
It’s an A-S tier talent imo
(Hit as in melee)
hearty panther
all the moments where i would normally had fallen back to literally catch a breath and also proc CAB, didnt have to cause my toughness was already maxed
since it was just generating the entire time im sprinting around knifing dudes in the skull
kinda ironic in a way
slow spade
oh yeah I love Catch a Breath's new form
playing Vet and being able to ignore shooters is funny
unreal forge
Don't let this distract you from that fact that the Helbore Lasgun has a longer draw time than the Plasma Gun
vapid thunder
why does lasgun dump collat instead of mobility
vapid thunder
yh that one
slow spade
you also don't want to stagger because headshots are good
faint beacon
Don't let this distract you from that fact that the Helbore Lasgun has a longer ...
Plasma is instant cause- fuck you that’s why
slow spade
so might as well move faster
unreal forge
because the Helbore Lasgun is a better weapon than the Plasma Gun which is why it needs so many drawbacks
🗣️
flawless Fatshark balancing
tame lodge
Real
slow spade
I wish we got to hear from how they design weapons
art and map design is cool Fatshark but we want to see what the weapon balance team is smoking because holy shit pass me some
faint beacon
I want to have a word with however gave the Vigilants an abysmal maniac adm
warm schooner
I'm really interested to see how they rebalance the existing shotguns
faint beacon
Cause I like the idea it’s spitballs when it’s not aimed at the head
But hits hard when it’s headshots
grave patrol
what is the meta build for vet
hollow ibex
Power sword, frags, weapon specialist with VOC
narrow frost
thats my build....
hearty panther
its our build, comrade
void dragon
shredder auto pistol with smokes, xstance, wepspec, and a tacaxe
You seriously derailed me with the exe stance
iron marten
shredder auto pistol with smokes, xstance, wepspec, and a tacaxe
incredibly baseD
grave patrol
Power sword, frags, weapon specialist with VOC
what do i put on the power sword and which one?
hearty panther
what do i put on the power sword and which one?
with brutal momentum and power cycler
grave patrol
with brutal momentum and power cycler
and perks?
hollow ibex
what do i put on the power sword and which one?
📌 Pins has all this information and more-- specifically the Hammer of the Emperor guide. It's a bit old, but 95% of it is still relevant since vet has barely seen any changes lol.
I’m assuming this isn’t havoc
So maniac and elite
grave patrol
its havoc
narrow frost
cara unyield
hollow ibex
OK then might need carapace
grave patrol
thank you
unreal nova
thats my build....
You know ppl copy pro player builds...
tepid panther
So, I read how weapon specialist works, but what's the gameplan with it? Always switch weapons?
tepid panther
Does it matter you kill or just kill anything?
tepid panther
Thank you for the help.
unreal nova
Just have your melee out when it pops.
tall torrent
what do i put on the power sword and which one?
VI
Carapace
Elite
Power cycler
Brutal momentum
void dragon
question: what does the infiltrate skill needs to be on a better spot than whatever it currently is?
hollow ibex
shorter cd, some of the subnodes baked directly in
not penalized in terms of pathing
and uh, maybe a full rework though idk how they'd rework it
void dragon
shorter cd, some of the subnodes baked directly in
the damage node should come build in imo, idk if weaker but it should give you some damage bonus
hollow ibex
honestly feel like both the damage node and double stealth should be built in lol
void dragon
one of the perks that make me feel that vet needs a second tweak on its perk tree
void dragon
honestly feel like both the damage node and double stealth should be built in lo...
double steath too?
hollow ibex
yeah
void dragon
but what subnodes it should have? feel that even the tougnhess resist is not a good one
unreal nova
I feel like a class skill should have 2 subnodes, maybe 3 at most.
void dragon
to be less of an ass to my team
imo you can run the low profile as long as you are doing something like bypassing a crew to shoot in the back some bulwarks for the team
unreal nova
Unless they are either this or that kind.
void dragon
if you are sitting off the fight you are indeed a jerk
void dragon
I feel like a class skill should have 2 subnodes, maybe 3 at most.
funny how the bad skills have 3-4 subnodes while the broken one has 2
void dragon
true, there is no "only in death does duty end" in Ba Sing Se
unreal nova
Just too much bad things tbh.
void dragon
Hum, should i take the run saver that cost me radius and coldown of my skill...
or the other that is broken as hell but give me piss toughness?
i wonder i wonder
gilded rock
If they ever reworked vet (again, lmao) some kind of "subclass" or at least talents revolving around coherency could be cool
Probably the ranged side
And perhaps make it some of the first coherency-related talents to not be throw picks
Then make VoC radius scale with coherency effects or something
Idk it just makes sense for the guardsman, whose entire thing is strength in numbers, to have something like that
hollow ibex
again
vet hasn't really been reworked tbf
just sorely neglected with small bandaid fixes
unreal nova
That barely makes the class closer to what seems to be current standards.
void dragon
Question: why is recomended using flak-maniac for the bolter and not something like unyeling?
faint beacon
If they ever reworked vet (again, lmao) some kind of "subclass" or at least tale...
I will never understand the gaslighting of Veteran rework when it was literally just them adding keystones that the class didn't have
its not a rework if it was lacking something the other 3 had
gilded rock
I forget what but did they not rework it a little beyond that too
I wasn't meaning when they finished an unfinished job xd
faint beacon
I forget what but did they not rework it a little beyond that too
not really no it was just moving and adding talents they promised before hand
Veteran basically was super bare bones P13
for Class rework standards
faint beacon
Its why I dont consider veteran reworked
it was the original set up they promised
Dont let Ogryn or Psyker mains gaslight you otherwise
void dragon
so veteran def needs a proper rework in this current age
void dragon
we shall expect one for the 4100 year
faint beacon
cause they dont have the choice of well
actually chosing a blitz or ability without being forced to path through talents they dont want
we can
just we get taxed
HEAVILY
void dragon
cause they dont have the choice of well
yeah zealots dont have a tree, but a tunel
void dragon
arbites, zealot, veteran
hollow ibex
I will never understand the gaslighting of Veteran rework when it was literally ...
psyker: gets a total overhaul of the tree
ogryn: gets a total overhaul of the tree, and most of its weapons
vet: gets keystones added months after everyone else
Mfers be like GuYS vET aLrEaDy goT a ReWoRK
faint beacon
Arbites is going to be fine
I doubt they'll ever need a rework unless they manage to fuck it up
hollow ibex
i'm turning this into a copypasta
faint beacon
but they had PTers help them build it
mighty anvil
im new to havok what are these numbers in the bottom right?
faint beacon
psyker: gets a total overhaul of the tree
ogryn: gets a total overhaul of the tr...
Makes my ass itch
faint beacon
im new to havok what are these numbers in the bottom right?
Havoc Rank
mighty anvil
Is that difficulty?
faint beacon
1-10 Malice
11-20 Heresy
21-30 Damnation
31-40 Damnation+
iron marten
Damnation+ aka suffering
void dragon
were is maelstorm in that metric?
mighty anvil
1-10 Malice
11-20 Heresy
21-30 Damnation
31-40 Damnation+
thank you very much
faint beacon
Maelstrom is just static
all throughout it
cause Monstrous specials is always active
I think at 15 it actually kicks off but like
Havoc sub 25 is beyond a snore fest
void dragon
but also where a lot of bad players are
faint beacon
Correct
mighty anvil
So if I increase my havok rank im more likely to get accepted for higher level havoks?
gilded rock
Anywhosits I like the idea of coherency talents that aren't dogshit
Sadly
There are like none that aren't
faint beacon
So if I increase my havok rank im more likely to get accepted for higher level h...
Basically
people tend to not accept low ranks
I manage to clear a handful of Havoc 40's cause its fun and I've learned how to play it mainly cause it requires coordination
but its brutally difficult
I'd say if you see a H40 ogryn take it with a grain of salt
unreal nova
So if I increase my havok rank im more likely to get accepted for higher level h...
Unless you get someone like Keje memeing and taking random ppl into H40.
faint beacon
just cause the class literally makes
Havoc 25+ feel like normal board damnation
and thats cringe
iron marten
Unless you get someone like Keje memeing and taking random ppl into H40.
Once u reach havoc 40, u don't drop anymore, so I can see why lol
faint beacon
Unless you get someone like Keje memeing and taking random ppl into H40.
@narrow frost cough
How many new players have you thrown into H40 now ainz?
iron marten
I would do the same tbh, but I just don't find havoc fun. Maybe I have the wrong mindset entering it
narrow frost
they ask for it
willow tendon
what is a melee weapon that I could use on another class
faint beacon
Okay true
unreal nova
I manage to clear a handful of Havoc 40's cause its fun and I've learned how to ...
Not quite. If I did PF in Asia, there's no communication. You can still win if you get decently good players.
faint beacon
Makes H40 so much easier if you're saying X area has a trigger or to focus a horde first before pushing ngl
still H40 is fun as hell
unreal nova
Once u reach havoc 40, u don't drop anymore, so I can see why lol
Yeah, never seen such awful builds in my life trying to get into H40 lul.
iron marten
I have to slog from havoc 22 if I want to get to 40 LMAO
unreal nova
Could ask the SEA Discord then, though skill ranges.
iron marten
There's a dedicated aussie havoc server so I'm mostly fine
unreal nova
Cos I understand if ppl don't want 300-400 ping.
unreal nova
There's a dedicated aussie havoc server so I'm mostly fine
Isn't it dead?
unreal nova
Is why so many Aussies ends up in SEA.
iron marten
Isn't it dead?
No there's another aussie discord but it's havoc focused
The general one is dead though lol
unreal nova
No there's *another* aussie discord but it's havoc focused
Oh.
vapid thunder
are wound curios always 1 wound
narrow frost
yes
vapid thunder
what blessings/perks on chaxe
iron marten
Besides, I'm not coordinated enough for h40. I always run off in auric damnation :p
unreal nova
Besides, I'm not coordinated enough for h40. I always run off in auric damnation...
When you play Asia PF, coordination mostly out the window. You are expected to know what to do.
vapid thunder
slaughterer
should i swap out flak and headtaker for carapace thunderous if i want anti crusher
elder vessel
Just carapace
iron marten
When you play Asia PF, coordination mostly out the window. You are expected to k...
mfw I join an asian havoc lobby and I see 3 ogryns
unreal nova
mfw I join an asian havoc lobby and I see 3 ogryns
Play to win.
iron marten
I can't really talk shit. My first h40 win was ds4 and recon on vet :p
mighty anvil
thank you
unreal nova
I can't really talk shit. My first h40 win was ds4 and recon on vet :p
DS and flamer. Though Zealot so all that matters is book spam.
Gone back to my knoife now though.
iron marten
DS and flamer. Though Zealot so all that matters is book spam.
hopefully zealot will be reworked
unreal nova
hopefully zealot will be reworked
Heh. More like other sides of the tree becomes more useful.
neon current
thing is
running fury is strictly 4fun
ogryn is just better at being a fury zealot
midnight wyvern
What would you wonderous people use on a Bolter in havoc 30-40? Or would you just not use a Bolter lol
unreal nova
What would you wonderous people use on a Bolter in havoc 30-40? Or would you jus...
Just take plasma to pew pew things through the crazy horde density.
unreal nova
Most guns can't cleave since the most basic trash has like, 3.8 or something hitmass.
midnight wyvern
And plasma skips that because infinite cleave?
midnight wyvern
Just high
unreal nova
Yes.
neon current
exe bolter is really stronk for havoc
but therein lies the problem
needs exe to hit the breakpoints
plasma you just spam into the thicc of it half the time
and milk the cleave
midnight wyvern
Fair, and then you don't have shout too
tame lodge
How much does bolter have?
3
midnight wyvern
Lol
unreal nova
How much does bolter have?
Bolter needs 5m min and doesn't pierce. Explodes.
So GL, you need to be aiming exactly right instead of cleave through and hit.
midnight wyvern
Just what I've been using in lower havoc and normal/auric and it works great, but heading into higher I was just wondering if there was something I was missing to try with it, but I'll just do plasma
solar surge
what are good blessings to have for the catachan blade?
narrow frost
precog + riposte/uncanny
hollow ibex
lacerate
void dragon
MAN, i just felt like one of those helper NPCs passing ammo crates and stims to the team, almost like i was the only one doing looting, team managed to not die enough to win a game, but it was weird to try support them the best of my capacity
solar surge
MAN, i just felt like one of those helper NPCs passing ammo crates and stims to ...
I've had those moments. Though what annoys me more is when you have a teammate that out preforms you by almost 50% and expect everyone else to be on their level when they are essentially soloing the map and mostly going off on their own.
Game was meant to be a teamplay not a cod solo mission.
void dragon
I've had those moments. Though what annoys me more is when you have a teammate t...
i hate those, they are the first of run off so i have to rush to save them, and worse is that they are THE worse ones to try pass stuff or heal
solar surge
I don't have fun when someone tells me how to be good.
narrow frost
then leave or mute
solar surge
If I'm surviving, and doing good enough to help the team they should not expect me to preform 200% when I enjoy preforming at 100% just fine.
void dragon
its revitalizing seeng some players that you know are not that good but they put the mileage and you help them to make up to the end of the mission
weak lark
If I'm surviving, and doing good enough to help the team they should not expect ...
What do you mean you can't solo the Karnak twins on damnation with 3 plague ogryns on your ass?? Get good kid
solar surge
its revitalizing seeng some players that you know are not that good but they put...
A good player thata supports the team is always refreshing.
void dragon
A good player thata supports the team is always refreshing.
now if i could find more of those, i one was trapped in a net for the entirety of a fight and it took ages for people to come help (wasnt even down, i naded the enemies and i was in a safe spot)
solar surge
What do you mean you can't solo the Karnak twins on damnation with 3 plague ogry...
Idk anyone who can do that as vet. I see a lot of psykers and zealots doing solo runs most of the time and they tend to be crazy good, but by chance they slip up once and a hound gets them and we are like 50 leagues behind them it gets rather amusing and frustrating.
weak lark
Idk anyone who can do that as vet. I see a lot of psykers and zealots doing solo...
Trust me, I'm lvl 17 with Veteran. I can totally do that.
But yeah that's always a good laugh.
solar surge
Trust me, I'm lvl 17 with Veteran. I can totally do that.
Never fought the Karnak twins yet. Though people tell me its rough.
void dragon
it has a trick, separating both of them is important, and someone who is dealing with fodder should trigger the ranged enemy mines to release the area
the melee one being easy to isolate is a big factor
weak lark
Half the time the entire team is just running circles around the arena freaking out because of the one of the twin chasing them down and the other 3 shotting him with the gun
solar surge
Like the most I can put into a match is 125%, but if I put beyond that I'm essentially no longer relaxing and am trying hard which is unfun for me most of the time.
void dragon
honestly, just running back makes the melee one be in a bad spot alone so easily
she cant even hit you if you run
its hilarious
weak lark
Like the most I can put into a match is 125%, but if I put beyond that I'm essen...
I'm trying for the Havoc armor sets on my main and every match is just ballbusting.
solar surge
I'm trying for the Havoc armor sets on my main and every match is just ballbusti...
Heard about that. Apparently there's a stagger resist mode that makes any stagger weapon useless.
narrow frost
it doesnt
elite at 50% hp get stagger immunity
but before 50% hp they are normal stagger
doesnt change much
besides making smite and DOTS worse
weak lark
Like you'll do really good then 20-30 minutes into the match the game spawns reskinned Karnak twins, 2 plagues ogryns and a daemonhost
And you just get fucked
solar surge
Fair. Though if you're surrounded and can't stagger 5 crushers because they are at 50% hp, it might be a bit rough.
void dragon
yeah you still want to kill confirm them asap so in the first stagger they should die
crushers is not an issue
bulwarks?
now that is something
solar surge
ah yeah, because without stagger you can't knock back their shield.
gotta have someone go behind.
void dragon
or do a matador when they attack, not ideal so its important to kill confirm them asap
narrow frost
any
void dragon
marksman? like marksman focus?
solar surge
It's not a full focus because marksman is kind of aids, but pretty much full ranged support.
void dragon
recon is really solid to save ammo and still remove specialist
weak lark
Snipe with the Boltgun
solar surge
If I went entirely down the left tree I'd suffer.
void dragon
bolter might be ammo intensive but is good sniper and grenade in an emergency
solar surge
Krak or shredder?
weak lark
Krak
void dragon
shredder is better, krak has its issues
hollow ibex
krak's prob better at lower difficulties
but falls off extremely hard
frags are king prob heresy and up
solar surge
Smoke seems useless as it doesn't register with flamers which is annoying.
hollow ibex
smoke is good in havoc
void dragon
the cc of the frags helps a lot
weak lark
I've had some pretty good success with the krak on lvl 4 missions
narrow frost
Smoke seems useless as it doesn't register with flamers which is annoying.
it does
but you need to be standing within its radius bvefore they fire
or they leave a linger trail
solar surge
it does
not when they are already shooting. once they start shooting they keep shooting past the smoke.
loud belfry
true......
solar surge
while if I drop smoke in front of gunners and they can't see they usually stop shooting, but flamer doesn't.
I personally feel like that should be fixed, but idk.
because the flamer stops shooting after a burst, but will still shoot past smoke once his burst is done. So idk if that should be fixed or just be a feature.
Also, I feel like the Vigilant autogun isn't as useful as the Infantry. My infantry seems to do more damage than my Vigilant.
narrow frost
@faint beacon
hollow ibex
uh oh
hollow ibex
Also, I feel like the Vigilant autogun isn't as useful as the Infantry. My infan...
||IAGs are better||
void dragon
||specifically the Vraks||
tall torrent
How much does bolter have?
3
solar surge
Of course I wasn't using the Graia pattern. So idk if I should max out the damage for it to be useful or not.
tall torrent
And plasma skips that because infinite cleave?
plasma cleave is ~55.125 for hipfire, ~105 for charged shot
solar surge
I'm going to test Graia and see if it's more useful in higher difficulties for the Vigilant.
nocturne mulch
Pinning Fire + Shattering Impact or Pinning Fire + Cavalcade for mag dump dps on bosses?
void dragon
plasma cleave is ~55.125 for hipfire, ~105 for charged shot
path, can i ask why bolter doesnt take perks like unyeling instead of maniac and flak?
midnight wyvern
plasma cleave is ~55.125 for hipfire, ~105 for charged shot
Based off feel I would've thought the Bolter had way more penetration but I guess not lol
solar surge
best blessings for Devil's Claw Sword?
faint beacon
Also, I feel like the Vigilant autogun isn't as useful as the Infantry. My infan...
Vigilant rewards precision and has incredibly way better ammo economy vs infantry
narrow frost
shred rampage
midnight wyvern
Pinning Fire + Shattering Impact or Pinning Fire + Cavalcade for mag dump dps on...
I use pinning/caval on Bolter, dunno about autoguns but it works good on monster can launcher
solar surge
shred rampage
what about refinement?
narrow frost
flak maniac/unyield
faint beacon
what about refinement?
Oh you mean dump stat
60% mobility
everything else 80%
Dump stat = make the lowest
solar surge
Oh you mean dump stat
I usually dump mobility on all my weapons unless someone tells me there's a more useless stat. Like when someone told me that collateral was not useful on recon becauase it isn't a stagger weapon.
faint beacon
there's a handful of weird dump stats on a few weapons
but its not common
Power Sword is Cleave Target
I'd say the only other "weird" things you might see might be more unusual perk combos
Vigilants typically want Maniac + Elite
midnight wyvern
Defense on some things
For some reason my little monkey brain had crit bonus as a dump stat on an old revolver
solar surge
Defense on some things
I kept defense on some of the ogryn weapons because having insanely low dodge on both distance and number of dodges is annoying.
void dragon
shield can plant itself to refresh the dodges, and its overall a more fighting weapon due its insane stagger
narrow frost
60-80 doesnt give a dodge
faint beacon
dodge distance though
midnight wyvern
Shield my beloved
faint beacon
gets hammered
midnight wyvern
Can't wait to see how good the arbites shield is
faint beacon
but its not a huge deal on Ogryn
void dragon
not worth, dump defense and bask in the shield's big stagger
faint beacon
when you can delete everything in front of you
solar surge
as an ogryn distance is sometimes relevant at least for when I play him.
faint beacon
esp with pickaxe
Ogryn is the only class that doesn't have Lingering dodge
so you actually have to time dodges
void dragon
for distance you could dodge slide
midnight wyvern
They do push stuff near them with dodges though
void dragon
indeed
solar surge
for my helbore I dumped stability. The gun doesn't have insane sway and recoil like the infantry lasgun does. At least not when I use it.
narrow frost
tis why its the dump stat
solar surge
didn't know it was.
hollow ibex
check pins
solar surge
I haven't asked a lot of these questions, only recently.
solar surge
i'm assuming it's the ranged primer?
faint beacon
Pinned guide is still moderately up to date
we're working on the steam version coming-
eventually
void dragon
Hammer of the Emperor is the guide, has lots (and i mean LOTS) of data
faint beacon
@tall torrent Shit speaking of we might need to make an Arbites base stat chart come the 23rd onwards
hollow ibex
man
why do people keep looking at the most out of date guides
as opposed to the most recent
need mods to just unpin the old/unresearched shit
void dragon
need mods to just unpin the old/unresearched shit
that indeed would be helpful
iron marten
we're working on the steam version coming-
Jesus he's still hard at work for that? Props
solar surge
I usually branch off to commando to grab this so I can kill more armored targets with my marksman. Idk if that's a bad idea or not.
loud belfry
faint beacon
I usually branch off to commando to grab this so I can kill more armored targets...
Avoid that talent if you can unless its Vrak 5 Auto Gun or Recon
those are the only small collection of guns that make Onslaught have value
solar surge
Avoid that talent if you can unless its Vrak 5 Auto Gun or Recon
what should I choose to get more armor pen then?
faint beacon
What gun are using is my question
incredibly dependent and plus Veteran has to compliment his weapons with usually something he's lacking
solar surge
What gun are using is my question
all of them, but I'm currently trying to level up my autoguns. currently using vigilant.
faint beacon
that or the Blitz
If its the Graia IAG or Agri IAG rending strikes
but its not suggested to use that on carapace
Vigilants actually get Value from Rending Strikes also cause it increases damage a bit against something it struggles against
which is maniac
solar surge
but its not suggested to use that on carapace
is this useful even if you run out of stamina?
faint beacon
No
when you're out of stamina it drops
so you need to run a Keystone or something that gives you stamina back
void dragon
is this useful even if you run out of stamina?
you can use that with a perk from the focus target keystone, which gives stamina and toughness, but is generally a "not worth the effort" perk
faint beacon
Example if you pick Focus target right under rending strikes
faint beacon
you can use that with a perk from the focus target keystone, which gives stamina...
Target Down!
you actually get a shit ton of value from it
helps with Power Sword and Taxe builds on Vet
that and Deadshot builds
cause remember
you dont even need to score the kill
and you get Stamina + Toughness
void dragon
deadshot and shock trooper on a Laspistol actually slaps
faint beacon
As long as your team kills it
solar surge
should I use this with shredder grenade? currently got this and the regen grenade one.
hollow ibex
deadshot and shock trooper on a Laspistol actually slaps
ehhhhh
faint beacon
Not really no
faint beacon
should I use this with shredder grenade? currently got this and the regen grenad...
not worth the point tax
Veteran suffers from not being able to reach good stuff from taxing pathing
so you have to make sacrifices
void dragon
should I use this with shredder grenade? currently got this and the regen grenad...
not needed, you can but as people say: its a tax node on a class that doesnt have many to spare
faint beacon
do you need a build for a Vigilant?
solar surge
do you need a build for a Vigilant?
I'm mainly just asking for advice. Though a full build is not needed.
hollow ibex
vigilant sucks anyway 
faint beacon
Gotcha, I've dumped like ludicrous amounts of time on that Rifle so I know its weaknesses and strengths
void dragon
vigilant sucks anyway <:thumbsup_ogryn:1063452727302180926>
rude
true, but rude anyway
hollow ibex
give it better maniac ADMs and we can talk
iron marten
They're not bad you just LACK the knowledge of how to use it efficiently
They should give it a billion damage so I can use it efficiently without thinking
hollow ibex
i can't stand guns with bad maniac ADMs
also, rpm precision weapons + fatshart servers
is a combination made in hell
tall torrent
path, can i ask why bolter doesnt take perks like unyeling instead of maniac and...
Cuz u don’t need it
void dragon
They should give it a billion damage so I can use it efficiently without thinkin...
someone read how Obesefish balanced Dueling swords
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> Shit speaking of we might need to make an Arbites base sta...
That’s ez
midnight wyvern
i can't stand guns with bad maniac ADMs
ADM?
solar surge
Not sure if this is worth in any scenario.
tall torrent
Not sure if this is worth in any scenario.
It’s quite strong
faint beacon
Not sure if this is worth in any scenario.
its pretty damn good on builds that encourage hitting heads
void dragon
Cuz u don’t need it
but i take they need flak and maniac, right? i cant find what exactly but i can take your word
faint beacon
melee you should just be attempting it naturally
tall torrent
but i take they need flak and maniac, right? i cant find what exactly but i can ...
Unyielding only matters for 1 mag boss
And 1 mag boss needs all weakspot hits in hipfire
hollow ibex
ADM?
armor damage mult, which is what it sounds like
impacts damage done to certain enemy types
tall torrent
Just not that frequent in occurrence to be worth running a perk for
midnight wyvern
tall torrent
There’re 3 other pages in addition to this
faint beacon
thats just a super TLDR
tall torrent
Gotta send the whole thing
faint beacon
cause there's a shit ton more
solar surge
I think having maniac as an armor type is dumb af. They should replace it with unyielding and be done with it.
hollow ibex
tall torrent
thats just a super TLDR
The super TLDR is with the 3 extra pages
This says almost nothing
iron marten
https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4...
Complete Global Saturation
faint beacon
tall torrent
That’s the TLDR of it
void dragon
Just not that frequent in occurrence to be worth running a perk for
But flak and maniac are kept because they help something or just because the most common targets you will shoot?
faint beacon
and thats just ADM btw
iron marten
So this is the main reason why uncanny is bonkers
faint beacon
LMAO
faint beacon
So this is the main reason why uncanny is bonkers
pretty much yes
tall torrent
But flak and maniac are kept because they help something or just because the mos...
Maniac gives flamer 1hs
Flak gives a bunch of body shot breakpoints
iron marten
I always thought it was my knife crit alone that was one shotting muties LMAO
tepid panther
Between Deathspitter / Infernus which ones give more mileage on recon? Been using infernus, but doesn't seem to do much.
void dragon
Maniac gives flamer 1hs
Flak gives a bunch of body shot breakpoints
Ok, thanks for the answer
tall torrent
Between Deathspitter / Infernus which ones give more mileage on recon? Been usin...
Deathspitter is a bit more damage but infernus is much more generalist
Either is fine
faint beacon
I always thought it was my knife crit alone that was one shotting muties LMAO
well its because its also a Finesse weapon
and thats another fucking
5 page thing to send
Actually no nvm
faint beacon
Actually no nvm
@iron marten
iron marten
Incredible
tall torrent
I cooked pretty hard with da new guide
iron marten
Feels pretty weird looking at the raw numbers of weapons you've used hundreds of hours for
tepid panther
Deathspitter is a bit more damage but infernus is much more generalist
So how does deathspitter work? Just like Dumdum and have to be close, but this one is kill in close range?
faint beacon
Finesse in a super duper TLDR is Crit and Weakspot bonus related basically
but that image gives a rundown better
tall torrent
So how does deathspitter work? Just like Dumdum and have to be close, but this o...
No
Strength doesn’t scale from distance, it’s constant value
“Close ranged kill” is ranged attack kill within 12.5m of player
iron marten
Yeah cheers for the tldr
tall torrent
Close ranged kill is NOT “close ranged - kill”, it’s “close - ranged kill”
iron marten
First time looking at this in my 1k hours in darktide xD
faint beacon
Jesus christ I just looked at the DOT Chart
tall torrent
Jesus christ I just looked at the DOT Chart
I punched those numbers in myself 
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How painful was that making
Not that bad
tepid panther
No
Strength doesn’t scale from distance, it’s constant value
“Close ranged kill...
Ah, the way they have it worded sounds like it only works on close kills. lol
Appreciate it.
tall torrent
U should see me reading the game’s source code and calculating stagger
Then hand testing stagger breakpoint to make sure it lines up
iron marten
I appreciate the effort you put in to this and verifying it as well...
Makes me wish darktide had a console like source games
tall torrent
I’m close to finishing ranged weapons for now
But I went to play BL3 for now while waiting for dlc
Arbites update should change some stuff
tall torrent
Mainly Shotty's
U can go look at combat shotguns’ current section
It’s all prepped up for update
solar surge
When running a commando and using a shotgun, is this useful?
faint beacon
Agile Engagement is one of the best Talents on Veteran but its depedent on your Aura and ability pathing
solar surge
What aura should I use?
hollow ibex
what sort of build is it
tall torrent
When running a commando and using a shotgun, is this useful?
Top tier veteran talent
solar surge
what sort of build is it
It's a custom build, one that relies on the shotgun and the catachan blade to kill what I can't kill with the shotgun. Rager's eat my ammo so I use the catachan blades riposte to make them kill themselves.
Not sure if the 5% move speed aura is worth it.
hollow ibex
that sounds like a good idea... if you're using double barrel shotgun
solar surge
Alright.
tall torrent
Would use that aura for all my builds if it wasn't for the pathing...
It has the best pathing of all 3
10% melee damage
Agile engagement
5% crit chance
Just for going that way
iron marten
Is it mainly cause of agile engagement and whatnot
Yeah, fair
I was mainly talking cause of nades
And then exe stance
hollow ibex
10% melee damage
Agile engagement
5% crit chance
and o4b
iron marten
Weapon Swap Speed too if you're a helbore user (me)
Though I do miss the talent being vanguard
Sprint cost reduction was peak with knife
solar surge
slug round shotgun ain't worth it is it?
I feel like the once called lawbringer has a lot more potential with crowdclearing and damage.
hollow ibex
slug round shotgun ain't worth it is it?
none of the comabt shotguns are worth it rn lol
double barrel is the only good shotgun rn
slug is the least worst of the combat shotguns
lawbringer is totally and utterly eclipsed by double barrel
iron marten
Damn, did the fire shotgun get kneecapped that badly
solar surge
I see. I wonder if they plan on reworking the old shotguns.
hollow ibex
Damn, did the fire shotgun get kneecapped that badly
yeah
iron marten
They will when the arbites class drops
They're bringing the combat shotguns up to contend with the arbites shotgun
By how much, idk
solar surge
Damn, did the fire shotgun get kneecapped that badly
the initial shot of the fire does little to no dmaage and the fire stacks don't do a lot of damage on their own. it also shoots slower than the other shotguns and does the least amount of damage and has the lowest ammo compacity. So idk wtf they were thinking.
iron marten
yeah
Rip
I remember when it was a decent secondary for zealot
Now they all just use bolters
Or flamer
solar surge
Also the flamer shotgun has the widest spread making it hard to land all your pellets into someones head when aiming down sights.
So it's like the worst shotgun in the entire game imo.
iron marten
Crazy to think shotguns would be bad in a horde game lmao
solar surge
the thing that's interesting is the shotguns in this game have increased choke when aiming down sights. other games don't have that curtesy. So idk if they are trying to make it semi-balanced by reducing damage but it hinders the weapon entirely.
If you miss half your pellets than you aren't doing any damage.
while in other games half your pellets is still half your damage.
while it feels like half your pellets in this is like 75% of your damage vs 50% in other games.
tall torrent
They're bringing the combat shotguns up to contend with the arbites shotgun
yea abt that
arbites shotgun didn't look all that impressive in the gameplay vid they showed
solar surge
idk, damage scales weirdly in this game.
tall torrent
so I have very low hopes
iron marten
yea abt that
arbites shotgun didn't look all that impressive in the gameplay vid...
Let me cope
Haha
tall torrent
idk, damage scales weirdly in this game.
nah
u just gotta understand which is which
solar surge
nah
I feel like it scales weirdly specific with pellet based weapons. Like half your shots missing can tank all your damage half the time while half the pellets in another game will still kill most npcs.
iron marten
Seeing the "tldr" screenshots lol
tall torrent
tall torrent
I feel like it scales weirdly specific with pellet based weapons. Like half your...
that's because of a specific mechanic called minimum pellet count
and most shotguns are undertuned in that regard
solar surge
If only they kept the suggestion channel. They can't seem to balance things properly without the advice of others.
iron marten
as someone who's been in other discords with suggestion channel for game balancing, don't
tall torrent
most people playing this game have ZERO idea what their suggestions actually mean
solar surge
as someone who's been in other discords with suggestion channel for game balanci...
I realize a lot of them fill up with nonsense.
tall torrent
it is what it is
solar surge
though most places that added suggestions to their discords usually have a word requirement, and have specific details you must add. That limits a lot of the people who just type a sentence of "make gun shoot better". Though I won't argue any more on that fact.
tall torrent
they do have forums for communication
solar surge
I guess that's a point, but I'm not sure if suggestions are allowed on that.
tall torrent
u can say a lot of things on there
whether they take in ur suggestion or not is a different story
solar surge
Though I guess the point is, do they care enough to read them?
tall torrent
and, given how deep the game's mechanics are
99%+ it won't matter
for example
stagger is a core mechanic in this game
there are maybe 6.5 people in the entire community (excluding developers) that understand how it works
solar surge
like on a core level, or even on a basic level?
solar surge
I don't know any specifics, but it seems to be there are requirements to both proc and activate a stagger on an npc. It isn't just as simple as shoot and stagger.
tall torrent
there're multiple steps for it
2 checks
and stagger accumulation pool
the 2 checks use data that's not really accessible
weapons' attacks can do diff level of stagger
this is also modified by stagger armor modifier
so it can vary a lot
then there're diff stagger stages with corresponding thresholds if u do stagger
and then for the fancier stuff
stagger category matters
yea
at most 6.5 people understand how all of this work
solar surge
So different types of stagger, and stagger levels based on armor type, and damage type?
or am I missing something else?
tall torrent
So different types of stagger, and stagger levels based on armor type, and damag...
what's "damage type"
odd sparrow
well if you inspect a weapon next to the damage value will be corresponding stagger value as a blue number
tall torrent
well if you inspect a weapon next to the damage value will be corresponding stag...
inaccurate
solar surge
what's "damage type"
what I meant by that is like getting hit with a slug that does 100% more stagger than a simple melee attack that only procs maybe 5% stagger.
tall torrent
the in game dmg tables are not always accurate
and especially the stagger values listed
hearty panther
thats like one component and its not the only fixed component
solar surge
Though it is based on the stagger type based on the damage type, or weapon type?
willow tendon
is lethal proximity on bolt pistol always good or is it good only for grenade build?
tall torrent
Though it is based on the stagger type based on the damage type, or weapon type?
I have no idea what ur talking abt I'm sorry
hearty panther
lethal prox is p. much always good
tall torrent
is lethal proximity on bolt pistol always good or is it good only for grenade bu...
only for grenade build
tall torrent
what I meant by that is like getting hit with a slug that does 100% more stagger...
that is not how stagger works in the game
hearty panther
other stuff will do more damage but its utility is always appreciable
willow tendon
if not for grenades, what should I take instead?
solar surge
that is not how stagger works in the game
well you said the stagger has a build up right?? so if a slug does more stagger it fills up the bar faster?
tall torrent
well you said the stagger has a build up right?? so if a slug does more stagger ...
stagger accumulation doesn't usually come into play unless ur weapon attacks very quickly against an enemy that's still capable of standing after getting hit a bunch of times
odd sparrow
Though it is based on the stagger type based on the damage type, or weapon type?
different weapons do different amount of stagger. A thunder hammer will stagger more than a combat knife
The amount of stagger will also be modified depending on the armor type of the enemy you're hitting.
IE staggering a carapace enemy will typically be harder than to stagger a flak or unarmored enemy
but its more complicated than that
solar surge
different weapons do different amount of stagger. A thunder hammer will stagger ...
Sounds like it's down to a science that my pea brain will not understand without a damn history lesson on the fundamentals which could take hours from what I can see.
Since the data doesn't seem to swing 100% in one direction. It's in multiple directions.
odd sparrow
all you really gotta know is that blunt weapons shock mauls, hammers, shovels, typically stagger better than sharp weapons, devil claws, heavy sword,power sword
iron marten
the "typically" is sending me. Duelling Sword specials says hello
hearty panther
yeah that's why that stagger number is mostly useless
odd sparrow
specials are the exception
iron marten
Knife punch staggering ragers is also pretty funny
solar surge
That much was pretty simple for me to understand. Even in most real life scenarios, armor is more susceptible to blunt force unless it's like a gambeson. Though I notice shotguns have decent stagger potential as well which makes sense also in a real life scenario since a shotgun blast can send you through a door at specific times.
odd sparrow
for guns bolter and shotguns are the only ones with a note worthy amount of stagger
hearty panther
shredder
odd sparrow
shredder is more supress than stagger
hearty panther
both really
odd sparrow
its ok at it
solar surge
which one is the shredder?
solar surge
ah.
odd sparrow
which one is the shredder?
shredder autopistol little hand sized smg
solar surge
I almost never use that gun unless I'm playing zealot.
solar surge
I also don't own one currently on my zealot with good stats so I haven't used a shredder pistol in a while.
tall torrent
I can give u a simple example on how stagger is calculated
against an attacking dreg rager, who has 5/10/30 threshold corresponding to light/medium/heavy stagger stages, and a stagger resistance of 1
power sword VI's light 1 attack does 8 stagger, with stagger category = melee , and has 100% stagger ADM against all armor types, so it'll do 8 stagger vs maniac
while attacking, dreg rager has 50 stagger reduction vs melee
when the attack hits, it goes through 2 checks
- does the attack's stagger surpass the enemy's stagger reduction? (or 1/2 of the enemy's stagger reduction if weakspot hit)
- does the attack's stagger surpass the enemy's stagger threshold after having deducted 1/2 of the enemy's stagger reduction and being divided by the enemy's stagger resistance? (or 1/4 of the enemy's stagger reduction if weakspot hit)
if either check fail, no stagger
if both checks pass, it goes to determine how hard the stagger is (light/medium/heavy stagger stages)
so, in this case, for check 1, 8 stagger is not bigger than 50 (or 25, if weakspot hit), so the attack won't stagger an attacking dreg rager
however, if the attack is powered up, the powered up version of light 1 has "ignore stagger reduction" property which allows it to essentially apply a x0% multiplier to the enemy's stagger reduction
thus in this case, for check 1, 8 stagger is bigger than 0, so it goes into check 2
in check 2, (8-0)/1 is bigger than dreg rager's light stagger threshold of 5, but not bigger than its medium stagger threshold of 10
therefore a powered up light 1 attack will put dreg rager into a light stagger stage
@solar surge ^
also the discrepancy between check 2's value and enemy's stagger threshold determines how long the enemy stays in a stagger animation
but that's like, not necessary here for the sake of simplicity
loud belfry
i wonder if a mod can be made that can show a stagger bar or something
tall torrent
someone should
midnight wyvern
i wonder if a mod can be made that can show a stagger bar or something
Irrelevant but I want this for Elden ring/Nightreign lol
solar surge
I can give u a simple example on how stagger is calculated
against an attacking...
makes sense. I understand the checks point. So will it not stagger even if you attack multiple times? Or is rager a specific enemy that can't be staggered unless you reach a certain threshold higher than his stagger resistance?
odd sparrow
no
there's already several mods that do similar things like healthbars, status effects, showing the radius of medikits, accurate ammo counters.
generally getting more information seems to be accectable even if it gives a slight advantage
odd sparrow
tall torrent
makes sense. I understand the checks point. So will it not stagger even if you a...
afaik stagger accumulation works on all enemies
but some enemies are so hard to stagger that it'll ages to build up
midnight wyvern
there's already several mods that do similar things like healthbars, status effe...
Showing radius of barrels, pox busters, daemonhost agro ranges too, very handy
odd sparrow
makes sense. I understand the checks point. So will it not stagger even if you a...
you can keep hitting em until it happens. Some enemies just take a lot more stagger notably ogryns
solar surge
afaik stagger accumulation works on all enemies
though it seems like Rager has less acummulation if that's even possible.
solar surge
but some enemies are so hard to stagger that it'll ages to build up
Ah, so there is like an accumulation "armor" so to speak.
odd sparrow
though it seems like Rager has less acummulation if that's even possible.
as written in the example above they take less stagger while they are attacking.
Its way easier to down them while they are running at you
solar surge
I see.
tall torrent
though it seems like Rager has less acummulation if that's even possible.
not exactly
the stagger pool accumulates 1/2 of stagger value
solar surge
I see.
tall torrent
so it will build up
iron marten
How much stagger does the rashad push attack have? I often stagger ragers mid attack with it
tall torrent
but it'll still need to beat both checks
it'll just take a bunch of attacks to build up
solar surge
I see now.
tall torrent
and ideally, u don't want to have to take several attacks to build up enough stagger to stagger an attacking rager
tall torrent
How much stagger does the rashad push attack have? I often stagger ragers mid at...
10.35 vs all armor types
it has "ignore stagger reduction"
so it'll go straight into check 2
loud belfry
welp i suggested a mod that somehow represents stagger
void dragon
I can give u a simple example on how stagger is calculated
against an attacking...
Me reading all this (kinda got it but it gives me a headache)
iron marten
10.35 vs all armor types
Oh damn, i was not expecting it to be that high
grand perch
it has "ignore stagger reduction"
does the rashad special not have that?
tall torrent
(10.35-0)/1 is bigger than 10
so combat axe's push atk will medium stagger an attacking dreg rager, but not heavy stagger
tall torrent
does the rashad special not have that?
it also has that
grand perch
its actually comical you cant stagger ragers with rashad special when you can with push attack
tall torrent
its actually comical you cant stagger ragers with rashad special when you can wi...
u can
grand perch
wait what
iron marten
The rashad special can yeah
grand perch
i tried that loads of times before i started to use push attack, never seemed to work
that was ages ago though...
tall torrent
I see now.
another thing abt stagger accumulation is
it only accumulates when u FAIL stagger checks
if u successfully stagger (both checks pass), nothing goes into stagger pool, and the stagger pool is reset to 0
midnight wyvern
So much random stuff going on in the background of our funny shooty horde game
tall torrent
stagger pool also decays over time
within 0.2s of an attack, it doesn't decay
after 0.2s it starts dropping off linearly
midnight wyvern
Higher than 1
tall torrent
What are the stagger values for bosses?
honestly
unless u main ogryn I wouldn't even bother with it
midnight wyvern
Can you still stagger chain chaos spawns with shovel heavy/punch chain on ogryn?
iron marten
honestly
unless u main ogryn I wouldn't even bother with it
I only recently got my ogryn to level 30 so lol
iron marten
Can you still stagger chain chaos spawns with shovel heavy/punch chain on ogryn?
Yeah u can
midnight wyvern
Yeah that was funny when I was doing that like a year ago
iron marten
Think you can do it on daemonhosts as well
midnight wyvern
Would've been good in the totem event where they spawned a bunch
midnight wyvern
Think you can do it on daemonhosts as well
I think it's 2 heavies then the punch?
I just wake them up with a krak or 2 on vet and kill them with a Bolter before they even get to attack
Much more gooderer
tall torrent
also
iron marten
I just wake them up with a krak or 2 on vet and kill them with a Bolter before t...
I used to use helbore for that
tall torrent
I can give u a simple example on how stagger is calculated
against an attacking...
this is actually super basic
this doesn't go into stagger while staggered
or stagger immunity
or stagger resistance modifier
midnight wyvern
I used to use helbore for that
Hellbore for killing DH?
iron marten
loud belfry
a stagger representing mod would probably be really hard
tall torrent
a stagger representing mod would probably be really hard
yes
loud belfry
of all the people who could potentially do it 99% of them would probably want money
tall torrent
bunch of checks and stuff are involved
iron marten
There's a cleaner and easier way to kill a dh with a helbore, but I only have it in psykhanium and it's just a blue stim instead
midnight wyvern
I can kill them no stim
Only thing that stops me is a friendly staggering it
Lmao
iron marten
midnight wyvern
My name is literally let me solo DH because I just need them to not help
iron marten
Yeah, deadshot is really needed for this
midnight wyvern
I want to try get a tiny bit more damage out of my build as I leave chaos spawns sometimes on like 1k hp and plague ogryns around the same
iron marten
Well, deadshot has since been changed since this clip so maybe it's better now?
tall torrent
DH is the lowest health monster
midnight wyvern
I'm guessing it'd be crits
hollow ibex
deadshot on helby is really annoying to build for
midnight wyvern
DH is the lowest health monster
High DR though no?
Swear I remember that from somewhere but I could be tripping lol
Game has been throwing alot of BoN at me and I hate it
hollow ibex
i love killing BONs
tall torrent
High DR though no?
nah
midnight wyvern
Back bubble just feels inconsistent to hit and the way it moves sometimes makes it annoying to shoot
tall torrent
only 0.7~0.9x DR
midnight wyvern
What are other bosses?
tall torrent
depends on body part
midnight wyvern
Is the head of the BoN actually counted as a head?
tall torrent
no
midnight wyvern
Thought so
midnight wyvern
Yeah, but thought the head might be slightly higher than body in terms of damage
But norp
tall torrent
Yeah, but thought the head might be slightly higher than body in terms of damage
it is
midnight wyvern
The head head or the weakspot
loud belfry
so basically shoot its tongue if you can but cant hit its weakspot
stoic thorn
Wheres the headshot bit on a Beast
iron marten
Can't wait to hear voicelines of the arbites being gobbled up
midnight wyvern
Oh full ranged damage to the tongue neato
void dragon
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/enemies/beast-of-nurgle
Wait shooting at its mouth is just as effective as shooting it's back? The more you learn
solar surge
is +1 wounds something I should still keep or should I invest in another stat like stamina, health, or toughness?
tall torrent
Wait shooting at its mouth is just as effective as shooting it's back? The more ...
yea
tall torrent
is +1 wounds something I should still keep or should I invest in another stat li...
are u used to the game yet
midnight wyvern
Wheres the headshot bit on a Beast
Frontally it's the tongue apparently lol, properly it's the bubble on the back
solar surge
are u used to the game yet
yes.
midnight wyvern
Also, can BoN just not be staggered outside of certain things? I swear I don't stagger it with VoC
stoic thorn
No?
tall torrent
Is that relevant?
yea I mean
if u play like "I will solo everything on the map" then wounds are redundant
midnight wyvern
Yeah if you don't go down wounds are pointless (unless zealot build)
solar surge
yea I mean
if u play like "I will solo everything on the map" then wounds are re...
Well I asked for what should I replace it with, not rather or not if I'm good enough not to get rid of +1 wounds.
midnight wyvern
Toughness is nice, stamina can be nice
tall torrent
Well I asked for what should I replace it with, not rather or not if I'm good en...
all 3 choices are ok it comes down to mostly preference and the class u play as
midnight wyvern
I found + HP as a meme on ogryn to be funny because I could get above 500 health
solar surge
I noticed some builds choose the hp bonus for vet because it goes up to 20+% while I've only ever gotten +17% on toughness.
midnight wyvern
Depends on how you're doing it, more hp is basically more chances to take chip damage through it
More toughness is less often chip damage through and stronger against ranged
I have 230 base toughness on vet and 280 with VoC
Only really get hurt in melee if I skill issue with a pack of ragers
iron marten
+3 max stam can be a scam though
midnight wyvern
How so?
midnight wyvern
Just get it at a higher rating
iron marten
Yeah, had a friend tell me about it like last month lol
tall torrent
I noticed some builds choose the hp bonus for vet because it goes up to 20+% whi...
health is good for everyone but ogryn basically
ogryn just scales significantly better on toughness that it's kinda wrong to not build full toughness on him
midnight wyvern
Why is that?
loud belfry
Just get it at a higher rating
it shows as +3 on the UI though so it can definitely be a tricky one.
tall torrent
ogryn casually gets like x22% smth TDR
so ur 200 toughness (which u can get with 3x toughness) is really more like ~1000
midnight wyvern
Also why does psyker with not that much less toughness feel alot squishier than vet?
(possible skill issue which is valid)
tall torrent
Also why does psyker with not that much less toughness feel alot squishier than ...
very low TDR = low effective toughness
midnight wyvern
tall torrent
veteran can get to ~200 toughness usually
midnight wyvern
so ur 200 toughness (which u can get with 3x toughness) is really more like ~100...
Christ
tall torrent
with iron will and 5% TDR node above nade regen that's ~250
loud belfry
they should give zealot more armor piercing stuff
midnight wyvern
Duelling sword not good enough?
midnight wyvern
A built in micro uncanny for zealot could be neat
Like a talent I mean but
That
loud belfry
i feel like it'd make sense for the melee class. they do have fotf of course but outside of that is a real struggle
tall torrent
Christ
ogryn innately has x75% DR and x80% TDR, for a combined total of x60% TDR
bleed DR scales up to x68% DR
NHF scales up to x85% TDR
these already combine into ~x35% TDR (somewhere like 600 effective toughness from 200 toughness)
top section has 4 dmg reduction talents
if u take the best one (ranged DR after getting shot), another x80% to it , now ~x27.7% (now ~721 effective toughness from 200 toughness)
if u are then meme building and take more dmg reduction, yea it can get to really low
midnight wyvern
tall torrent
also forgot about ogryn's TDR nodes
the absolute minimum u can get is x12.9% roughly (without FNP keystone)
so 200 toughness being more like 1545 effective toughness
midnight wyvern
Why bring shield when you are shield
tall torrent
this is why health is not worth on ogryn
there's only 1 correct choice and it's 3x toughness
midnight wyvern
Plus you regenerate that so quickly with heavy attack nodes
Insane yeah
Whats the requirement on heresy/damnation and above to take health damage through toughness?
midnight wyvern
Lol
So just any hit after the first
Or during chip
Fair
Just didn't know for sure lol
dry cloak
Ogryn has 300 health by default
midnight wyvern
And golden toughness is technically not your new cap of 100% so no hp damage through that either
dry cloak
So getting hit here and there is not that much of a problem
Just dont rely on it too much
midnight wyvern
Just don't get hit
tall torrent
300hp is more than enough
midnight wyvern
Just that shrimple
dry cloak
Piss toughness is basically overshield
midnight wyvern
Why do people enjoy recon lasguns so much on vet? I just felt like it wasn't doing too much damage for the amount of ammo being put out, with exe and shooting heads
austere mica
300 hp is more than anyone else gets, why would you need more
dry cloak
Why do people enjoy recon lasguns so much on vet? I just felt like it wasn't doi...
Shocktrooper
midnight wyvern
Had that too
dry cloak
Recon lasgun with shoxktrooper and survivalist allows for stupid ammo econ for a weapon like recon lasgun
Its still ammo hungry
Especially the mk12
Iirc
The fast one
midnight wyvern
Felt like I ran out of ammo with that faster than I would a bolter
Yeah I was using the fast one
tall torrent
Felt like I ran out of ammo with that faster than I would a bolter
melee more then
dry cloak
Thats your problem
tall torrent
midnight wyvern
melee more then
I just changed gun 
dry cloak
Or mk14
tall torrent
the basic rule of thumb is
if u can hit someone within the next 2s with ur melee, probably not worth wasting ammo on them
midnight wyvern
Here I was planning on shooting them with my melee
dry cloak
Catmiral also a lot of people use the mk12 as fire spreader than a gun
If you want to kill stuff 6c or mk14
dry cloak
This aint vraks mk5
dry cloak
It is
normal sparrow
the basic rule of thumb is
if u can hit someone within the next 2s with ur mele...
Bonbon joins the chat
tall torrent
Bonbon joins the chat <:chadgryn:1161142998214656090>
beast of nurgle?
yea they take way more melee dmg than ranged dmg
still better to melee them if u get the opportunity to
midnight wyvern
Probably rewarding you for being in melee with it
normal sparrow
beast of nurgle?
Yup
Still need getting used to melee him alone
Which is terrible experience in small corridor 
midnight wyvern
Pokey sword to the back does wonders
tall torrent
honestly in my experience
loud belfry
pokey sword through the front to the back does true wonders
tall torrent
the best way to fight BoN if everyone has bad positions
midnight wyvern
Ayo?
loud belfry
yeah he keeps getting stunlocked because he is obsessed with grabbing
tall torrent
to a point where ur team has good positions to blast him from behind
cuz pubbers are frankly quite dumb to understand boss aggro
midnight wyvern
Does vomitting on you do anything other than the slow/corruption?
loud belfry
it lets him eat you
tall torrent
Does vomitting on you do anything other than the slow/corruption?
yes
midnight wyvern
Makes it target you to eat or something?
tall torrent
it makes him prioritize going after u
normal sparrow
the best way to fight BoN if everyone has bad positions
tall torrent
to vore u
loud belfry
you can totally use its obsession with grabbing you to your advantage. especially if you have terrain in the way to decrease its chance of walking closer to you to actually seal the deal
hollow ibex
it makes him prioritize going after u
someone else needs to be bait smh
loud belfry
just walk close to it, it'll try to grab, dodge that, repeat
midnight wyvern
Just dodge directly away?
narrow frost
Tl;dr https://youtu.be/3iBTCDL754U
.....
midnight wyvern
Any fancy way you want to dodge it?
tall torrent
Tl;dr https://youtu.be/3iBTCDL754U
u got the nightmare blunt rotation for boss dmg
in terms of boss dmg u have no boss dmg
loud belfry
not sure how the grab really works, it seems like a special type of attack almost
hollow ibex
i feel like it just happens if you're too close lol
loud belfry
yeah
narrow frost
The grab is a normal attack you can dodge
narrow frost
But it has weird properties
loud belfry
if you have some terrain in the way it's pretty good
hollow ibex
it's worth it when a teammate is the bait
midnight wyvern
Getting munched not goog
narrow frost
Can reach through walls
narrow frost
I have an amazing example on how to fight BoN in my 1st YouTube vid
Not shilling
But an actual example
To melee BoN
loud belfry
baiting BoN grab is not worth it except if you cheese the terrain. it's mainly risky if he has an open path straight to you
normal sparrow
in terms of boss dmg u have no boss dmg
I didnt say good boss dmg but 1v1ing plogryn or cspawn is fine
Getting vored by bonbon is death sentence tho
narrow frost
Depending if other bosses are active or aoe specials
midnight wyvern
https://youtu.be/CQa8DC22nDc?si=h3vh7iZi_mOyAh5F
Love me crusha
hollow ibex
https://youtu.be/CQa8DC22nDc?si=h3vh7iZi_mOyAh5F
how did it not hit you when it did the tail whip?
solar surge
https://youtu.be/CQa8DC22nDc?si=h3vh7iZi_mOyAh5F
now I see what people mean by "play like you are going to solo the map"
narrow frost
how did it not hit you when it did the tail whip?
Dodge
solar surge
also your fov is insanely high. like that one poxburster you pushed looked like it was pushed from leagues away.
narrow frost
Send me time stamp
narrow frost
also your fov is insanely high. like that one poxburster you pushed looked like ...
Yeah
I edited config files
loud belfry
do you mean 3:53-3:54~? (because that's just it turning around weirdly)
narrow frost
To set to 100
Best BoN tip
Play by it's arms
You can dodge all of its attacks there
(if it's targeting you)
solar surge
https://youtu.be/CQa8DC22nDc?si=h3vh7iZi_mOyAh5F
to be fair at least half of these plays wouldn't be possible with allies since they can get in the way/proc things to aim in your direction.
hollow ibex
Fair enough
narrow frost
I don't need to know since it's muscle memory now
loud belfry
i cant see the hud nor can i see the reality, i just sense it like daredevil
narrow frost
Basically
solar surge
buff bar is only useful if you need it for classes you aren't sure are going to proc that buff and how long it will be active.
narrow frost
What buff procs that you need to maintain/count?
solar surge
I i never pay attention to the buff bar on my zealot, but on my veteran I tend to want to know what's procing and what isn't.
and more importantly how long it's staying active.
there's so many 3-5 second procs I tend not to be able to viably count when they are active or not. Though I don't have that issue with zealot.
barely have that with ogryn.
narrow frost
Only thing I can think of is maybe duelist on zealot
But its really easy
When you need it it's against bosses or armor
normal sparrow
What buff procs that you need to maintain/count?
Thrust and momentum stacks
narrow frost
So wait for an overhead then attack
narrow frost
Thrust and momentum stacks <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
With dodge node on it adding plus 3 it's always at 15 for me
tall torrent
also your fov is insanely high. like that one poxburster you pushed looked like ...
He’s not on that high fov
DT base fov slider is just really low
narrow frost
Thrust is timing
solar surge
He’s not on that high fov
DT base fov slider is just really low
mine goes up to 100+ but his 100 seems farther than mine.
narrow frost
Thurst max stacks is around 2 sec?
tall torrent
mine goes up to 100+ but his 100 seems farther than mine.
No, slider only goes up to 85
narrow frost
Unsure it's been awhile since used
tall torrent
To go above 85 u need to edit config file
solar surge
No, slider only goes up to 85
you mean the bottom one not the top number?
tall torrent
you mean the bottom one not the top number?
Yea
normal sparrow
I just stare at the 3 stacks while dodging/sprinting with th
solar surge
ah, then yes it goes to about 85.
tall torrent
VFOV
narrow frost
Funny thing about the dodge gaining stacks for IJ, it can proc multiple times for 1 dodge
3 shooters shooting you will give you 9 stacks with 1 dodge
tall torrent
now I see what people mean by "play like you are going to solo the map"
It’s almost a requirement for enjoying pub games
narrow frost
I usually turn off my hud and go 3rd person while blasting music if I pub auric
That does turn into not knowing that my team already went through 7 people cause they leave when they die
midnight wyvern
It’s almost a requirement for enjoying pub games
Played with a group of 3 others that talked the last few days and my god it's so completely different
Been playing solo pubs for like 700 hours with a few friends sprinkled in and they don't stick around lol