veteran-class

[normal bay]

Power sword gameplay

[tame lodge]

It's power sword without PC

Yeah lmao

[tall torrent]

wtf

rev heavy for bruiser?

on eviscerator XV?

[tame lodge]

Kills them faster

[tall torrent]

that's the overhead

[tame lodge]

Procs BT

The ritual totens are the only thing that made me use normal heavies

💀

Ice? You got it

Rev Heavy

But yeah a CRIT rev light deals like ~475 damage to a Scab Bruiser head

The same ~475 damage that can be distributed to 6 groaners/walkers on rev light

You might need a little help from rampage though

Unironically one of the best horde clearing

Rev light spam

[hasty grove]

How I use the chainsword because sawing through an enemy releases the happy chemical in my brain

[tame lodge]

And because of BT you can go martyrdom/IJ and still have easy access to IoD

Then you either choose Twbs or Enduring Faith

[hasty grove]

My successive metal clattering noise as I saw a mauler’s head off is godly

[tame lodge]

Of course this gets trickier when elites are involved in the horde

You end up like Cole

Not Cole smh

Meow

The Rev Heavy miss into Chastise

[steep flower]

It was painful to witness

But do be happening to the best of us

[faint beacon]

Im pretty sure thats also an old clip

[last marten]

doing this when i get home 😹✋

[torn gorge]

i tho 15 was just spam lights for hordes

[tame lodge]

It works but not as effectively as rev lights

[torn gorge]

and 4 was for the revved shenanigans

[tame lodge]

Unrevved has a damage cap of 4

Revved has 6

[iron ravine]

like for cleave

also, would someone please explain the difference between the crusher and power maul

[uncut pebble]

Crusher is a one-size-fits-all weapon that works against everything. Continuously attacking the same thing ramps up its damage exponentially, if built right. Power maul is more like if you turned smite into a weapon.

Paul has the power to keep everything in the room on the floor and good ogryns can keep this up indefinitely.

[signal zinc]

does anyone actually use this gun
stat wise it's just a worse lasgun and I feel the same way after I've used it

[uncut pebble]

Crusher can do what Paul does, you just ruin your dps. It's far more efficient to knock over key targets and then beat them to death while they're on the floor.

[uncut pebble]

Maybe finish upgrading it and put the perks and blessings it calls for on before rating it.

[tame lodge]

I use

[iron ravine]

i've used the paul a lot

[tame lodge]

[iron ravine]

and like how i can one shot a ton of enemies

[tame lodge]

You can literally 2 shot Maulers with it

[uncut pebble]

@faint beacon what to run on graia vigilant?

[iron ravine]

but i guess i can give the crusher a try for a more general use build

[uncut pebble]

Just remember the push attack has the highest damage out of everything in the moveset. (unless you're weird and use thrust)

[signal zinc]

how do you even use this

[tame lodge]

You point and click

With Surgical preferably

On the semi auto that is

[iron ravine]

yeah surgical works well

and the semi auto one is the best one anyway

[uncut pebble]

Graia calls for surgical, yeah. The other two call for headhunter.

[uncut pebble]

Nope, 2r burst is best.

(agripinaa)

[faint beacon]

Surgical + Deadly Accurate with Maniac + Elite

[tame lodge]

Double Tapper has no zoom

[signal zinc]

I think I'll stick to my lasguns and bolbgun

[tame lodge]

That's a deal breaker for me

[sudden cedar]

Headhunter + Falter

[faint beacon]

Agri IX is Surgical/HH + Deadly Accurate with Maniac + Elite

[uncut pebble]

That's actually better.

[faint beacon]

Its better

[uncut pebble]

Makes using executioners stance way less of a pain.

[faint beacon]

it lets you play far more aggressive

can see shit coming from your peripherals easier

Why I say the Agri IX is the best for more constantly rushing in

[tame lodge]

The humble warning sound

[iron ravine]

on that, is executioners stance any good when you have the tagging keystone

[faint beacon]

Focus Target is just good in general

[iron ravine]

i know, that's why i run it on a marksman build instead of stance

stance just ends up feeling weak once you use focus target

[grand perch]

what does focus target have to do with exec stance at all?

its not really a marksmans build if you go voc > FT. thats just generalist damage and survivability

[supple stag]

@faint beacon I'm gonna finally give Agri IX a go

[hollow ibex]

It sucks don't bother

[faint beacon]

No it’s playable

Besides it’s better than other weapons

Lmao

[supple stag]

It was alright

[faint beacon]

My only question is how did you play it

Cause I have to stress it’s very much a click on elite or special head tool quickly before getting back into melee

[supple stag]

I just used my standard VoC/Krak/WS build

[faint beacon]

Try MMF or FT

you’ll notice it jump up drastically

[supple stag]

I don't like MF

I'll do FT later

[hollow ibex]

the maniac ADMs on the vigils piss me off

[faint beacon]

I’ve been doing Kraks, VOC, Agri IX with FT and both supportive nodes with Taxe 7 and I managed to out damage a HH Pickaxe Ogryn

[barren nimbus]

It’s always very impressive when an ogryn doesn’t top frag everything because you’d genuinely have to be very stupid not to

A veteran has to do ridiculous combos with a power sword just to deal less damage in melee

[faint beacon]

Ironic part is they were trying

[narrow frost]

Ogryn is more results with less effort

But doesn't mean vet can't outperform even purg psykers for danage

[faint beacon]

I was just doing ludicrous shit and managing to barely top frag

Cause it was our damage being neck and neck till events happened

[sonic kayak]

Left is Ogryn, second is Psyker

I was Vet with smokes

[faint beacon]

Is it safe to say Veteran as a class requires the most effort to be incredibly good with at this point?

Outside of the things I can count on my hand that make it overpowered

[narrow frost]

I'd also disagree since DS and plasma exists

Left click adventure

But he is the class with the least broken things

Amount

[sonic kayak]

In my case I use PSword

I try to keep the DS to Psyker; For me it helps me keep each class' identity to itself

[faint beacon]

Sounds about right

Idk I’d say from personal experience on game impact the classes are looking something like this

Ogryn > Psyker > Zealot ≈ Veteran

[nimble wadi]

NO

[faint beacon]

It’s the truth

Ogryn and Psyker have a shit ton more of an easier time

[hollow ibex]

But muh glass cannon psyker

[crisp oak]

Vet needs nades to keep up

[grand perch]

consignment yard start, 4 heinous rituals within the first room alone. with chaos spawn on top

[faint beacon]

Zealot has to use “The Build” and they also have undying

[grand perch]

what were they smoking

[faint beacon]

A crack pipe

[grand perch]

restarted mission - again 3 rituals in first room but more bosses this time

[tame lodge]

Sounds like a fun time

[narrow frost]

They need to not make rituals stack near each other

Ham and I were doing duos last night on comsplex

And we kept getting double ritual on the 1 st stairs

We wiped like 4 times to those

There is a location of excise vault where there could be 5 rituals

In the 2nd hanger bay

[bold trench]

I hope if they ever do a sequel they go all-out on the character customization

[tropic halo]

In the next 10 years

[bold trench]

Sean Bean maxxing

[tropic halo]

Is that face modded? Dont think I have ever seen that hair style?

[hollow ibex]

Ur face is modded

[tropic halo]

https://tenor.com/view/zazu-gif-8111977976091427580

[grand perch]

working as intended

roll randomly if you lose the mission

[narrow frost]

We were getting so lucky

1st easy ritual

That's 1 down

And twins

Easy

Then boom, 2 rituals

Beginning and mid event are the only hard places on comsplex

[midnight wyvern]

hey I just had both of my blueberries try and block crusher overheads

can't be that bad

[bold trench]

this b vanilla

[neon current]

The more I pay attention, the worse reciprocity gets

Getting 8-10% on average out of

At which point, why bother

[slow spade]

it's more that the others are meh anyways

Duck and Dive means no Desperado

and Close Quarters Killzone is eh

[neon current]

CQK

[slow spade]

is eh

[neon current]

more consistent than recip for me

[slow spade]

at least it's better than For the Emperor

[slow spade]

15% close range damage for 10s on ability is consistent to you?

well to each their own lol

[neon current]

yes

every time ulti, it's there guarunteed

I don't know, recip looks like it shouldn't be hard to maintain high stacks

8s is a long time

yet, it just doesn't

it's weird really

I would expect around 20% on average from

[nimble wadi]

Are there any infantry or vigilant autoguns that are good?

[nimble wadi]

If there aren’t that’s fine I’m just asking

I’m not too familiar with them

[orchid hemlock]

Infantry are great

Vigilant idk, never used them

[tame lodge]

Vraks5
Vigilant 7

Agripina Iag

[orchid hemlock]

But you didn't ask about the goated ones 😈

The BRACED

[nimble wadi]

I’m not a fan of brauto

[orchid hemlock]

You are dead to me

[sonic kayak]

He's probably dead to everyone at this point

RIP

[nimble wadi]

What blessings would you use on vraks5?

[nimble wadi]

[nimble wadi]

WTF

[austere mica]

They weren’t already?

[tame lodge]

Dumdum Deathspitter

Alternatively

Dumdum Raking Fire

[tame lodge]

Sex Whales reference

[nimble wadi]

Wales can’t have sex

I mean whales

Oh wait yes they can

Nevermind

[loud belfry]

whales are asexual?!

[nimble wadi]

😒

[nimble wadi]

What blessings for this

[tame lodge]

Dumdum Deathspitter

It can also use the Salvo blessing

But feels bad not holding the trigger

[nimble wadi]

Ok

And what about vigilant 7

[tame lodge]

Surgical + Deadly Accurate/Opening Salvo

[neon current]

22 crit with 15 base

with the OG shovel

how is recip this bad

[acoustic crow]

what a find :D

[neon current]

gief

[long dove]

Okay I haven't played in ages so I need to know. I have a Mk IV Helbore and I don't remember that model. I remember the Mk I, II, and III models though

[sonic kayak]

After the Great Rework, they changed the names of a lot of weapons, the Mk 4 is the slow firing one, the Mk 3 is the balanced one, the Mk 5 is the fast one

[long dove]

Why though, so Mk 4 is the "sniper" variant?

[sonic kayak]

Why? Who knows why, it's Fatshark But yes

[long dove]

A okay also, bayonet charge? When was that a thing?

[sonic kayak]

It has been, but the Mk 4 does a slash and not a stab

(which is inferior to the other 2's stab)

[long dove]

So it can't charge?

I'd test it but I'm at work so I can't exactly get on the game lol

[sonic kayak]

No, not the Mk 4

The Mk 3 and the Mk 5 can bayonet charge

[long dove]

Dang, I wish I could. It would add a nice thing for the sniper

[sonic kayak]

It would, but I guess it's to balance the firepower of the Mk 4

[long dove]

Yeah but the Mk 4 has its issues and wants you to keep it out all the time

[rustic juniper]

Is recon las rifle instead of Plasma gun playable for havoc 40?

[sonic kayak]

All 3 of them do, it's a "feature" of the Helbore family

[long dove]

I thought the Mk 4 was the worst offender

[sonic kayak]

Even with the swap speed talent, you're still taking 3 business days to take out the gun and charge it unless you're using Exe Stance

I can't remember if they have different pull out animation speeds between marks but I don't think so

[sonic kayak]

It was in Havoc 1.0, it should be in 2

[long dove]

I run exe stance

[neat stratus]

I wonder how they'll balance Arbites to make the dogs useful

[long dove]

Idk

Is running the blessings that stack reduced charge time and more damage on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shots good?

[neat stratus]

I mean we already have everyone for crowd control, and both psyker and veteran can pop distant elites and specials pretty easily

[sonic kayak]

It's one of two "useful" blessings besides Hotshot, + mandatory Surgical

[long dove]

It would neat for the dog to lock down big targets

[sonic kayak]

It's preference which one you prefer on your Helbore

[neat stratus]

Arbites would do what then? Would they crowd control while their dog handles big targets or lock them down for others to deal with?

[gilded rock]

Stack reduced charge time should be good, not sure about the salvo blessing

[long dove]

Okay how does that work? I wasn't around when it was released

[crisp wraith]

I think they’re supposed to pin enemies like the enemy hounds do, so they’ll likely be a control/support feature not attack or dps

[gilded rock]

I think charged shots reset the salvo so you'd never proc it, which is not only not great for what helbore does but is also anti-synergistic with the other blessing

[neat stratus]

Lets not forget that gunner Arbites can use the heavy stubber

[gilded rock]

I could be wrong though

[long dove]

I remember in the past it worked and would reset after the 4th shot

[neat stratus]

Based on what I know they use shields, shock mauls, heavy stubbers, and combat shotguns, so maybe they're the defense operative?

[sudden cedar]

They are what Fatshark decides to make them.

Equipment they may have in 40K Lore must not equate to what they will have access to in Darktide.

[neat stratus]

True, but speculation is fun. What role needs to be filled that an Arbites covers is the question

[sonic kayak]

It's probably more a matter of flavor than anything

All classes can "do" the same things as each other, with varying degrees of efficiency

[neat stratus]

Probably, but itd be the easiest way to get a clue of what they would play like

[sudden cedar]

I refrain from speculations. It only leads to expectations which will inevitably be disappointed.

[sonic kayak]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

[sudden cedar]

Isador Akias.

[neat stratus]

I guess, but its also pessimistic to assume that they can't do anything

[long dove]

I think volley fire works on helbore and makes for some nice headshots lol

[sonic kayak]

I'm refraining from speculation simply because I'd like to see what they bring to the table

[sudden cedar]

I agree to that.

[neat stratus]

Sure

I am hoping they at least let the dog be useful though

[long dove]

Same

[sonic kayak]

Not opimistic, not pessimistic, genuinely don't know what they'll do but I'm sure it'll be good

[long dove]

I also hope they have some of the more cop like stuff so shock weapons and what not

[neat stratus]

Something gives me the feeling the average guide is gonna be "just ignore the dog, take these Arbites perks that make you a killing machine"

[sonic kayak]

iirc the blog post states your dog can lock down lesser enemies, stagger bigger ones, and can free you from disablers

[neat stratus]

Well if they can do that, then at minimum they're an excellent thing to have

[long dove]

Yeah cause no fun allowed

[sudden cedar]

Guides are Guides.

[neat stratus]

Guide was the wrong word

[sudden cedar]

They are not mandatory or some sort of handcuffs

[pseudo fiber]

It depends on where the node is

[neat stratus]

General advice of the public would make more sense to what Im trying to say

[crisp wraith]

Tbh, I’m just happy to be getting a new class, regardless of if it’s going to be broken, useless, unique or balanced

[sudden cedar]

You can just ignore them or take the best bits from them and use them for yourself.

[neat stratus]

Like don't mag dump your bolter into fodder for example

[tall torrent]

recon is top tier

[neat stratus]

Dont invest in the dog being a similar thing held on a podium just because its pretty much useless, or already so good that there's genuinely no point upgrading it (should it even have any)

[long dove]

Oh is the Helbore MkIV good at dealing with armor? I have to relearn everything now

[neat stratus]

I think they said something about building the Cyber Mastiff?

[tall torrent]

most meta will probably to take the dog because it's pretty hard to beat an on demand resource-free priority target kill

[sudden cedar]

Always depends on how good the dog will actually be at that

And how convenient and easy to use that will be.

[tall torrent]

cole said the no-dog-talent originally was ass but was buffed to be worth taking if u rly want to play as just a guy

[hollow ibex]

Yes, but not an easy weapon to play

[wind grotto]

I will assume until they show anything that the dog is probably going to take too long to kill things unless it gets some nutty stuff in the tree

[neat stratus]

I think so, Ill gather the relevant info they gave us on it

[wind grotto]

but no one will know until they actually show it off

[hollow ibex]

Is dog blitz or ult?

[tall torrent]

neither

[hollow ibex]

Interesting

[wind grotto]

it's just double tag something from what we know so far

[hollow ibex]

Oh right

[wind grotto]

but maybe you can get a blitz or ult that does dog things

[sonic kayak]

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/introducing-the-cyber-mastiff-dev-blog/108442

So far what we know about the dog:
-You can have it focus on targets by pinging twice
-It can't be damaged or targeted by enemies
-it will pounce and lock down human-sized enemies, on Ogryns it will do a heavy stagger and some damage, but it’s not gonna lock them down permanently, On Monsters it will attack and bite but won't stagger a lot
-Can rescue you from Hounds or Mutants (Trapper is not mentioned, who knows)
-Can be opted out of taking

[hollow ibex]

They mentioned that

[tall torrent]

it's base kit, then improved through talents

probably smth similar to veteran having a bunch of grenade dedicated talents
arbites will have a bunch of dog dedicated talents

that's my guess

[wind grotto]

I assume a side of the tree is going to be like mostly dog and other buff stuff

because that seems like a safe bet

[neat stratus]

Its also invincible, and enemies ignore dogs
and yes, it's upgraded through the skill tree

[long dove]

I love it honestly. Of course I'm rocking it, the shovel, and Krieger uniform sooo

[sonic kayak]

It's the invisible dog do do it's the invisible dog do do incredible how you can....

See right through it!

[neat stratus]

So maybe as a base, the dog is going to take things down like it's supposed to, Id wonder if it would get a skill tree node that makes it distract enemies

[tall torrent]

it can't be targeted by enemies

[hollow ibex]

Too bad I can't make the dog a tank and have it get overheaded to death

[neat stratus]

That would be hard to balance though, so I wouldn't expect it

[neat stratus]

They could be talking about the base behavior of it for all we know

[tall torrent]

u can make it target specific enemies by double pinging

[wind grotto]

I assume they're just unhappy with how the necromancer stuff worked out and how good they are at tanking in vt2

so making it untargettable and just doing things is probably a much better option

[neat stratus]

I honestly think the necromancer was a decent class, but it sucked to have that be Sienna's ultimate considering its her entire gimmick

They definitely fired shots at that in the opening

[wind grotto]

I think it was something that didn't fit sienna as a character and was also just kind of bad for vt2

I think a summoner man would be fine in dt because the sheer amount of bullshit you have to deal with is so much higher

[neat stratus]

Yeah, the skeletons effectively just became a wall that made the game incredibly easy

[wind grotto]

just summoning like 4 generic guardsmen or something from the nearest door would be fine

[neat stratus]

New veteran tree incoming

[crisp oak]

Skellies also have the hp of a slaven slave in cata

They just.... die

[neat stratus]

True, theyre too good on lower difficulties and useless as an ult on cata

[crisp oak]

Yup

[wind grotto]

they die quickly but you can summon more than enough of them to buy a lot of time on cata

[neat stratus]

Literally the best part of them being the area stagger there, which is uber dissapointing

[wind grotto]

I thought they were still pretty nutty on cata

just as a weird tool she had

[neat stratus]

They can be, but you gotta invest in it

I think the skull item being the way to control them was a tad clunky

[wind grotto]

oh controlling them sucked yeah

[severe jolt]

On higher difficulties I find it best to use them as a way to vent heat quickly and without losing HP.

[neat stratus]

Yeah that was their other purpose

And Im glad they dont seem to be making the Cyber Mastiff a vent for anything on the Arbites' side

[wind grotto]

i'm just worried it's not going to do much

[neat stratus]

A summoner class that only summons to do their own thing more didn't do it for me

[wind grotto]

getting a disabler off you is okayish at least

[neat stratus]

I think itd be cool to see them do it right

Unfortunately that dog better have the speed force if its gonna be better than just shooting the sniper

[wind grotto]

I don't think it'd take much to make them decent

[neat stratus]

They're a slippery slope kind of balancing

[wind grotto]

just a skill to make their targetted jump stagger things around the target or give them cleave or some shit

[tall torrent]

if they can one shot trappers and flamers they'll be good enough lol

[wind grotto]

I assume they'll kill any human they jump on but it is going to take a while

[sonic kayak]

Can't even rely on players to do that

[neat stratus]

I think itd be massive if you got rewards for manually commanding the dog, encouraging you to actively use it for additional bonuses like toughness or cleave, potentially making the larger enemies take more outside damage while being mauled

[wind grotto]

but no way to know until they actually show it

[severe jolt]

You can target it by pinging enemies? Too bad, because the enemies that a dog could be really useful for are things like bombers that you can't ping because you don't have a line of sight to them.

[neat stratus]

Itll also do its thing automatically if you dont tell it otherwise

Maybe you could change its priorities somehow, that would be a great way to make the Mastiff an amazing addition

Maybe a skill tree node that causes it to trample through hordes of minor enemies, like a half width bull run

[wind grotto]

I think they probably don't want it to do much because it's going to be too strong too easily

[neat stratus]

I think their options are a strong arbites and a good dog, or a strong dog held back by a weaker arbites

[tall torrent]

actually no the dog can heavy stagger ogryns

that's already really good lol

[neat stratus]

Could be the difference in paths, where the huge things for the dogs make you sacrifice the potential of yourself

[wind grotto]

yeah it being able to bowl over a bulwark sounds nice in theory

[orchid hemlock]

Doggo

[wind grotto]

like i'm tentatively hopeful it'll be good

[fringe meteor]

Good dog

[hollow ibex]

Friendly ones too, and I'll buy the dlc

[neat stratus]

I imagine on release, its either going to be broken, or just weaker veteran that sometimes knocks an ogryn over

Lets hope they do the AI good

[wind grotto]

oh I fully assume it's going to be busted

i'm just wondering if fatshark is going to give them a gold toughness skill or not

[hollow ibex]

Rumblergryn about to fire? Stagger him out of it

[severe jolt]

Isn't the dog gonna be tied to either your blitz or ult? Consider for a while what else we can get in those categories, the dog can be pretty powerful and still not break balance.

[neat stratus]

They did mention the carapace armor, I wonder if thats going to be a flavor thing or if there's going to be some kind of armor passive unique to Arbites

[wind grotto]

from the little we know so far no it's just double tag something

[neat stratus]

No, they said itll passively follow you and not take damage or aggro

[tall torrent]

from what I heard it's somewhere in the middle

not as strong as current ogryn/psyker

[neat stratus]

Its a thing we'll have to wait and see for

[hollow ibex]

So either way vet about to be top 5 class

[tall torrent]

hell yea

[neat stratus]

Like I don't know, maybe on a tree opposing the dog focus you take less toughness damage from ranged and smaller enemies

If the carapace armor isnt just "Hey look guys, we know Warhammer! It doesn't do anything though." then I'm sure itll have some significant relevance to the class

[wind grotto]

eh it's probably just a ult that makes them tanky for a bit

[neat stratus]

Definitely bad to speculate, but I think the Arbites is going to be worse at handling elites to make up for the strength of the dog, prioritizing crowd control and defense

[wind grotto]

I don't think they can possibly give it a kit that will be bad at killing elites without knowing they are fucking up

[neat stratus]

I dont think itd be bad, but it wouldn't be the best

Combined with the dog it'd probably be great is what Im hoping

Lock a mauler down with the dog and smash its bones outside with a shock maul

[wind grotto]

the only thing that I think is going to sink or swim it for being good or not is if it has a golden toughness thing

[tall torrent]

no

[wind grotto]

because it's absolutely not going to be better than ogryn in melee or as nuts as a psyker overall

[neat stratus]

With carapace armor being specifically mentioned I feel itd be a crime not to make them more tanky than the average human class

[hollow ibex]

He gets shield too

[wind grotto]

but I think it'll be stronger other than golden toughness utility than a vet for sure

[neat stratus]

Especially with the others wearing light carapace or even flak

[wind grotto]

i'll be shocked if the carapace armor thing isn't just an ability my man

just tankier but slower for 10 seconds or whatever

[neat stratus]

Yeah, I mean they definitely want to lean into the riot control aspect of an Arbites, so I think its going to be like a slower, defensive zealot that can throw dogs at people

[severe jolt]

it'll be a passive modifier
"+5% toughness reduction against crushers and maulers"

[wind grotto]

I doubt they're going to make him like ogryn level dr or whatever

[neat stratus]

I would cry

[neat stratus]

I would think less DR than Ogryn, but more than the others, even just as an ability

Psykers arent exactly known for heavy armor and Zealots enjoy the damage, Vets probably just wear the standard issue stuff

Arbites being kind of like the SWAT class would probably be a tiny bit heavier

To relate it to Vermintide, Im thinking Grail Knight more than Ironbreaker

[tall torrent]

veteran has flak/carapace

there's 1 veteran cosmetic set that says carapace

rest are flak

[neat stratus]

Yeah, though tbf thats a cosmetic more than what veteran was designed wearing

I mean Arbites are practically known by their armor if not their dogs

[tender hound]

does it mean veteran gets flak/carapace damage reduction?

[slow spade]

if only

[tall torrent]

no? more for shotgun/boltgun and their more frontal assault way of using the law

[neat stratus]

The carapace makes them more distinct from the other units, but their weapon choice as well ig

Point being they're a frontal assault group that uses dogs and shotguns/bolters and riot shields, they'll probably be built to run into danger more than a veteran that would generally hang back and shoot

At the very least they'll play more into short range combat than the vet while not being so ridiculously faithful that they cant die to damage

Here's a text block from the announcement that keeps me from sounding crazy:
"Exact punishment with extreme prejudice: Muscle forwards with reinforced Assault Shields and a choice of Dominator Maul or Arbites Shotpistol - Darktide’s first defense/range combo. For tougher targets, the Arbites Shotgun packs a unique punch with its Special Issue ammunition. A more in-depth detailed breakdown of the Arbites weapons will be coming out soon."

[slow spade]

personally I'm wondering if the funny shield they'll get can block sniper and overheads like the Ogryn one

[neat stratus]

They're meant to be the muscle forward human sized unit, so Id imagine at the very least itd be a missed opportunity if they made them bad for tanking through damage

[rustic juniper]

Thx for the answear 😀 did u know the 60% dumb Stat and what are the best perks?

[neat stratus]

From a flavor perspective it'd just be wrong to make their unique armor irrelevant

[shell wyvern]

anybody got a builds for a revolver? or maybe something like the ogrynnomicon ?

[magic trout]

You can change the toughness boost node with demolition team.

[tall torrent]

apparently collateral changes stagger vs bombers if u hit weakspot long enough, so maybe mobility

[shell wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-sorprendido-shaquille-oneal-gif-23222312

oooh

[tall torrent]

take always prepared for revolver

[severe jolt]

I don't speak foreigner. What in the hell is a "pistola bolter"?

[magic trout]

@shell wyvern This one is for shotgun but can be used with revolver also you can change the ''+25 toughness'' and ''bring it down'' for ''fully loaded'' and ''superiority complex''.
Curios at you choice

[narrow frost]

covering fire?

but looks nice

[neat stratus]

If you think about it really hard

You'll realize they mean the plasma gun

[faint beacon]

We forgetting about the Shocktroops of the guard sporting carapace also?

Fear tactics and full frontal assault is the two things I can say when it comes the Arbites

[neat stratus]

Hopefully an unupgraded dog is as good as a random at least

(They would have to try to make it horrible)

[faint beacon]

They confirmed theres a talent where you can forego the dog for an overall stat boost

[gilded rock]

It will at least save you from dogs so it's already real

[faint beacon]

You’ll see me using that 75% of the time cause I seriously don’t need a get out of jail free card for dogs

[tame void]

the dog is there for style points, not a jail free card

i like me pet

like i genuinely want it as a cosmetic for the other classes

even if its just that, cosmetic

[tame reef]

Real quick question lads. Whats the dump stat on power swords, mobility?

[crisp oak]

The dumps for all weapons are in the pinned guide

[tame void]

fatshark pls, ill give you so much money

[crisp oak]

But I think its cleave

[tame reef]

Hammer of the emperor one yeah?

[crisp oak]

Yuh

[tame reef]

Bet thanks gamer

[tall torrent]

cleave target

[tame reef]

🤝 Appreciate it. Was just scrolling through it now LOL

Legit just got to its page too

[severe jolt]

There's cool guides for all classes in the pins. Just don't go treating them like word of god, even if they were written by god tier players. It's usually better to do your own field testing, because at the end of the day everyone plays the game a bit differently.

[neat stratus]

Right, it already is

[magic yoke]

The slop rotation today is genuinely awful, these outifts have no sauce

Drip or drown and they chose drown

[neat stratus]

Think Im gonna take a break from this game until Arbites release

I swear every day randoms get worse 😭

[last marten]

i need a de-netter dog 🥹

[sonic kayak]

If you say no, then trappers can't legally trap you

[formal ice]

Play with me and @umbral grove

[last marten]

trappers in the office conduct meeting

[neat stratus]

Nah Im tired

[sonic kayak]

Tired of THESE MUTHAFUCKIN' HERETICS ON MY MUTHAFUCKIN' PLANET

[lime pendant]

hackin and whackin and choppin that meat

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/people-who-don't-know-vs-people-who-know-those-who-don't-know-vs-those-who-know-gif-18075947697117816471

[gilded rock]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-face-meme-troll-face-scary-troll-face-phonk-those-who-know-those-who-snow-gif-8838879525100589615

[tepid panther]

For the recon lasgun which stat should I dump?

[gilded rock]

Collateral or mobility

Collateral dump means you'll stagger people a tiny bit less but that also means making sure their heads don't sway out of the way of your clicking

[tepid panther]

Gotcha, I have one with mobility at 60, is there much difference between the two?

[gilded rock]

Not a whole lot no, the higher mobility one MIGHT have an extra dodge so that can be impactful but not sure, I would inspect to double check

[tepid panther]

Thank you, appreciate it!

[sonic kayak]

Max dodges are at 59% Mobility though, which is why we say to dump that iirc

[odd girder]

Is there a build for veteran pinned? I cant find it

[sonic kayak]

Or am I getting mandela'd

[gilded rock]

You could be right like I said

Not sure about recon specifically and it won't make much difference in either dump

[sonic kayak]

I don't remember and cba to remember either

[hollow ibex]

There's a guide in the pins but not really example builds

[odd girder]

Ah i liked that someone had pinned a zealot build and thats working good for me figured there might be a vet one

[sonic kayak]

Vet is marginally more flexible than Zealot, hence the lack of THE BUILD

[formal ice]

More flexible on not using keystone

[odd girder]

I was thinking going down the middle mostly

[hollow ibex]

Bottom middle is mandatory anyways

There's flexibility but you get taxed hard for trying to get smart

[odd girder]

The keystone and the active you mean?

[hollow ibex]

Just talents

Keystone is nice but not mandatory

The cdr talent, iron will, and either demo stockpile or demo team (you likely will want both)

All in the middle and mostly near the bottom

[odd girder]

Interestin thx

[uncut pebble]

Still some nasty point taxes and a keystone that is almost unusable.

[sonic kayak]

Hence marginally

[umbral grove]

Yo

[supple laurel]

i cant be the only one that named my vet FusRoDah because of vet shout

i have never seen anyone else with such a perfect name

[torpid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/stare-cat-cat-stare-fast-gif-9103868621036733672

[faint beacon]

My Zealot is a shitpost, 2 of the others are Cosplays, and my Veteran is the only serious one

[sonic kayak]

I appluad you for your creativity

I thought of naming my Zealot InigoMontoya but I think I've seen one before

[solar valve]

Are we back to rogue trader talk yet

[loud belfry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1379693464576458802/ugPyVkT.gif

[abstract sand]

unfortunately middle path is the only really powerful one

veteran really needs some tweaks

[neat stratus]

I named my psyker Saruman-The-Stinky

Exactly 18 characters

It was meant to be

[sonic kayak]

As the God-Emperor intended

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/saruman-the-stinky-gif-8394920197621013794

Also god emperor Im hyped for Arbites

I NEED a class like it

[magic trout]

Which is the difference between 60% and 80% mobility powe sword?

[neat stratus]

2 cm of dash distance

[torn depot]

Man, used the Hellbore lasgun for an auric

Big mistake

Low fire rate and Low charge speed

[tame lodge]

Lack of Weight of Fire

[torn depot]

I do have it

Not fast enough

[tame lodge]

Then I recommend mk5

The fastest

Don't even need WoF

[wind grotto]

like +.18 sprint speed which is pretty huge for keeping up

but like the other dude said actually nothing as far as extra dodge distance goes

[torn depot]

Eh, 60% max damage is good enough I suppose

[tropic notch]

The humble weapon specialist

[hollow ibex]

it can be very good, but yeah not the easiest to play, and quite janky

[abstract sand]

Ah yeah weapon specialist can be good

[torn depot]

Man, the Iron sights on the hellbore lasgun sucks

Its like the devs want me to miss my shots

I aim better with the normal infantry lasgun

[hollow ibex]

some of the skins have better irons lol

or you can use the crosshair mod

but that takes away the charge bar

janky ass weapon

[austere mica]

Or use weapon customization and give it whatever sights you want

[hollow ibex]

i don't like my game crashing all the time

[austere mica]

--lua-heap-mb-size 2048

I haven't had an out of ram crash since I started using this

[magic trout]

Thanks

[torn depot]

Weapon customization causes my game to lag hard

I can't stand using hellbore with these ironsights

[tame lodge]

Just go Mk4 default skin

But then you have the slower charges

[torn depot]

Mk4 has bad iron sights too

[tame lodge]

💀

[tame lodge]

Better than 3 and 5

Base skin that is

[torn depot]

I want a scope for the hellbore

[tame lodge]

For some reason any other skin replaces it

[torn depot]

I'll just go back to using normal lasgun

[neat stratus]

I snipe with irons in bf1

The helbore was made for me

[midnight wyvern]

where do you put this?

[austere mica]

Launch options on steam

[midnight wyvern]

[hoary horizon]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-

[supple laurel]

ty lol

[midnight wyvern]

I haven't been crashing too often, usually just from menuing quickly between cosmetics and loadout

but if I can remove that too, would be neat

[loud belfry]

menus are very common crashing points

[midnight wyvern]

classic

[unreal nova]

Needs to fully load or CTD.

[midnight wyvern]

only other times I can remember is mods not being up to date lol

[void dragon]

question: if the mk4 is the pinacle of broken for the dueling swords, and the mk5 is the "worse" one, how much is that mk far from being balanced?

[midnight wyvern]

yes

[tame lodge]

Mk5 still has the best dodges in the game

[unreal nova]

Pen dump for memes.

[tame lodge]

And the heavies still hurt

While the difference from body to spot on the Mk4 is ~600 damage

Mk5s ~300

[void dragon]

do you think is honest to use it? or should i keep my soul and keep using me shovel?

[neat stratus]

I need arbites so much

[unreal nova]

That's really on you, tbh.

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/credit-card-smacking-credit-card-on-table-gif-21340324

[void dragon]

me poop scooper it is then

[unreal nova]

Always honest weapon, that one.

[hearty panther]

if i was to put it in relative numbers

[long dove]

How important is stability for Helbore Mk 4?

[hearty panther]

lets pretend a perfect combat knife represents 100%

ds4 is 250%
ds2 is 200%
ds5 is 150%

but it doesnt have the insane pokey attack so nobody really cares

[grand perch]

dump stat

[long dove]

Oh neat. Cause I'm taking single well aimed shots?

[grand perch]

yes

[long dove]

Am I able to reroll all perks and blessings without limit?

[void dragon]

appreciate the breakup explanation mate

[abstract sand]

is there a good vet guide that i can take some possible builds from

90% of the gamelantern ones just look awful

[abstract sand]

im running ds mk4/recon xii and i feel like i could make the talent setup way better

[hollow ibex]

what sort of build are you looking for?

[hollow ibex]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e3a17a9-c4c4-4f9b-855b-c37250ad14f2/basic-bitch-recon-las

generic recon las build

[abstract sand]

No keystone?

[hollow ibex]

none of the keystones have meaningful synergies with recon las

so it's quite common to do keystoneless for recon las

[abstract sand]

yea thats fair

i use focus target at the moment

but i dont feel like i get much use out of it at all

[hollow ibex]

yeah focus target's prob the best candidate, because generic damage boost

but even then

[abstract sand]

so i may go keystoneless

[abstract sand]

No Shock Trooper. I weep

[hollow ibex]

realistically, you should only be taking one or the other

surv or shock trooper

and use your melee at least half the time

[abstract sand]

I use surv and shock trooper

Yes, I never run out of ammo

[abstract sand]

This is what I use right now

But I definitely want to alter it

Trench Fighter appeals to me

[hollow ibex]

yeah might as well drop FT at that point

[abstract sand]

Yeah

[hollow ibex]

it's a very powerful melee talent

mandatory for some weapons, like rashad

if you take FT you'll really need to take redirect fire too

[abstract sand]

Also I never thought to take these

[hollow ibex]

a good amount of the value from FT comes from redirect fire

since it's essentially a permanent 7.5% damage boost for you and your team

[abstract sand]

lol image didnt send

these @hollow ibex

[hollow ibex]

oh

yeah it's mostly pathing for out 4 blood

[hearty panther]

Out for Blood my beloved

[hollow ibex]

which is very strong rn

[abstract sand]

wait

out for blood is a flat 5% for all kills

[hollow ibex]

i think it took people a while to realize that o4b is prob the best

[abstract sand]

holy shit i never realized that

[hearty panther]

Yes

[abstract sand]

im out of the loop

[hollow ibex]

out of the three toughness regen nodes you can get at the start of the tree

[hearty panther]

O4B used to suck

It started at 2.5%

[hollow ibex]

2.5% was hardly bad either

[hearty panther]

Became 4 and then 5

Yeah but CK was 20 + 20% back then too

[hollow ibex]

oh was it?

[abstract sand]

i just came back to the game last week

[hearty panther]

Ye

[hollow ibex]

well, i think o4b is the best of the three now

[abstract sand]

current vet is so different than it was on release

two+ years ago i was using the kantrael lol

[unreal nova]

Throw two 'nades with lethal prox and Born Leader. Everyone full toughness.

[hearty panther]

I miss Vanguard

Replacing it with One Motion was a personal attack against me.

[hollow ibex]

what was that again?

sprint eff?

[abstract sand]

im mostly copying this but wondering if i should swap out the +5% crit chance for Bring It Down or Shock Trooper

or just keep the crit chance node

[hollow ibex]

yeah if you want

[abstract sand]

o yea

weapons

curios are two +17% toughness and a +3 stamina

(i fell for the stamina meme)

[hollow ibex]

try rashad or PS instead for the melee

DS is a crutch, and will actively make you a worse player

it will likely get nerfed at some point

the outrage over DS has grown quite a bit the last few months

you know it's bad when even reddit picks up on it

[abstract sand]

oh im going to

i've just been playing a whole lot of ogryn that i haven't bothered with veteran stuff lately

[abstract sand]

which one is performing better in havoc right now

or are they about the same

i have never ever used the rashad

so

[hollow ibex]

power sword for sure

power sword is harder to use tho

[umbral scaffold]

^ more unsafe

[abstract sand]

it's so cool though

[hollow ibex]

rashad is a good way to learn all the melee fundamentals, except for combos

not that PS really has combos either tbh, but it's a bit more involved

[abstract sand]

i really want my favorite 40k weapon in darktide

(power fist)

fatshark! add power fist and my life is yours!

other than this i have a combat blade/stub revolver infiltrate build but that's so incredibly off-meta that it's comical

[hollow ibex]

i enjoy infil even if it's not meta

[abstract sand]

i like to run at mach speed with infiltrate

and the combat blade's mobility

[abstract sand]

swapping crit chance node for bring it down

rip shock trooper you were my goat

[open ravine]

I really hope we get to preorder arbites soon or Fatshark drops what regional prices will be because while telling us it will be 12$ is ok it doesn't help allot for a country that doesn't do dollars and steam doesn't always do a one to one conversion rate

[dry cloak]

I just multiply it by 4.5x because of old steam price suggestions

[hearty panther]

how dare you forget

yes it was -20% sprint cost

[hollow ibex]

oh yeah

that's way better than one motion lol

[abstract sand]

Yeah this rocks

Played a Maelstrom to test it out

[hollow ibex]

glad you like it, i mostly run meme builds but i do have a few non-meme builds for others to use

[abstract sand]

only thing i changed was swapping that crit chance to bring it down

everything else was goated

[hollow ibex]

That's prob worth it for bulwark racism

[abstract sand]

should i keep these perks by the way

i like the sprint efficiency a lot

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that works

[abstract sand]

im throwing this away though

[hollow ibex]

Very important in vet yes

[abstract sand]

unless you think +3 max stamina is actually decent

i dont think it'll make a huge difference tbh

the sprint eff seems to carry

[hollow ibex]

I don't run stam curios on any character

But it's not the worst thing ever, valid pick to take one

[abstract sand]

i fell for the stamina meme at first

💔

[jolly birch]

People like taking a stamina curio in Havoc actually

[hollow ibex]

I thought I needed a stam curios. But then I dropped it and realized it hardly mattered

[hollow ibex]

Yeah because your toughness and hp get fucked anyways. I don't play havoc though

[abstract sand]

im not gonna discard it tho

you dont always find a +3

so

[hollow ibex]

Yeah don't sell it lol

Curios are such a pain to get

[abstract sand]

yeah now i have to wait for a +17% to show up

at least there's a 16 in the shop right now

[sudden cedar]

You can buy curios from Sire Melk and hope that you get one.

[jolly birch]

Oh god i have to get new curios on arbite oh fucking hell

[abstract sand]

yeah i gamble there sometimes

[jolly birch]

Don't buy curios from Melk, btw

[sudden cedar]

Why wouldn't you?

[abstract sand]

why wouldn't you

[hollow ibex]

Fuck. Maybe I just won't get the dlc now

[jolly birch]

I spent 30k melk tokens, and you know how many usable curios i got?

Zip

[sudden cedar]

Yeah okay and?

[abstract sand]

the only purpose of melk's these days is for gambling

[sudden cedar]

What else am i going to spend those tokens on?

I get it, low level player, no weapons, heard it.

[jolly birch]

One day they're gonna give it a new use, and everyone that gambled will be like "fuck, wish i saved mine"

[sudden cedar]

Maybe. Maybe not.

[abstract sand]

@hollow ibex got anything for power swords by the way

i havent used a power sword in...

2 years

lol

[sudden cedar]

It is not what it used to be.

[abstract sand]

im assuming the dump stat is mobility

as per most weapons

[sudden cedar]

People say Cleave. I don't know why, but cleave target it is.

[hollow ibex]

psword doesn't have any specific talent requirements, though it benefits obviously from trench fighter and all that.

dump is cleave targets

since it barely makes a difference

[sudden cedar]

Maybe because it is capped on cleave targets anyway so it does not matter.

[abstract sand]

wtf is cleave targets as opposed to cleave

[hollow ibex]

the difference is minimal, so it's even less useful than mobility

[abstract sand]

oh

lol

[sudden cedar]

What it says. Cleave targets is how many targets you hit. Cleave is the damage. I think.

[grand perch]

Nah the extra cleave from 60 to 80 just isn't enough to cleave more stuff

[jolly birch]

All they gotta do is make it so all of the curios in melks shop are max rolled, and suddenly that currency is useful again. At least until you get a full array of em on every character, then they're useless again

[abstract sand]

what's the difference between iii and vi

[jolly birch]

I still remember what melk's shop was gonna be, selling what is essentially Heroic Deeds from VT2

never liked that system, so I'm kinda glad it's not in Darktide

[abstract sand]

holy shit the mk vi's block attack

lol

block attack then light just erases crushers

[loud belfry]

idk. but what you really want is 68/72 (but it needs to be able to shoot 8 times without you taking damage)

[open ravine]

Just curious is the train still in mission circulation

[steep flower]

I have like 60k+ milk coins saved for arbites class to be released; i’ve spend 20k to get +21% hp curio on vet once

[steep flower]

Ofc, all missions are

[sudden cedar]

@open ravine It will show up sometimes, just like every other mission. It is not in Havoc tho.

It will also never have event modifiers i think.

[jolly birch]

I should build up my stack of melk tokens a bit for when arbites come out...

I think I'm at 10k now

[sudden cedar]

I thought you said one shouldn't do that. Buying Curios from Sire Melk.

[open ravine]

Just checking haven't seen it in a while

[open ravine]

Melk actually seems to sell good stuff nowadays ever since the mastery update well except for his loot boxes they are trash and I think should be replaced with resources bundles so we can trade our melk coins in if we are good on weapons and curios

[sudden cedar]

He seems to sell good stuff.

Stuff you might find interesting if one isn't familiar with the crafting system.

For everyone who is, his shop sole remaining use is Curios.

[open ravine]

I wonder how many new weapons will be coming with arbites as currently it seems like only 3 a shotgun and two shield options one with a stub gun and one with a maul

[sudden cedar]

Enough that the Arbites will be competent and well equipped, not enough to satisfy those who want more weapons.

[steep flower]

The only proper way to get curios is from the milkman

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower I agree. This is something from an earlier conversation.

Although proper might be a bit of a stretch, it is still RNG.

[open ravine]

I am getting a feeling he will only get the 3 listed weapons then the generic human arsenal

[sudden cedar]

That may be true. It may not be. The Arbites is a human operative after all.

Can't wait for Arbites with Duelling Swords, if it really goes that far..

[open ravine]

I hope sometimes this year we get some lmg options like the human sized stubber and hotshot last gun

Would complement vet so well

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower How dare you call the venerable Lord Darius Melk of House Straxamus this.

[gritty mural]

i can't wait for fatshark to develop this class with a unique set of weapons just for them to let you use the dueling sword with it

[sudden cedar]

You bet. If Arbites has it, people will use it.

Just like the Combat Knife.

[gritty mural]

tbh combat knife isn't as bad

[sudden cedar]

Only because the Duelling Sword exists

[open ravine]

I want them to bring back pre nerf power sword as considering what the dueling sword can do the power sword shouldn't have been nerfed

[gritty mural]

shredder autopistol used to be the strongest weapon in the game, we used to be a nation

[stuck tree]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1043720769592623174/1077719735036280872/1CFC6F34-BB31-40F6-AA72-DE250F097A90-1.gif

[nimble wadi]

Is shredder any good now? I haven’t used it

[severe jolt]

Rolling Steel can be hi-intensity, but never pox gas or lights out.

[sonic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[nimble wadi]

[neat stratus]

Noooo the hell it wasn't

[nimble wadi]

Bushman I am going to melt your ice cream

[sonic kayak]

You simply didn't believe in it

[sonic kayak]

Do you know how to handle that?

[nimble wadi]

Wdym

It’s easy

[cunning haven]

hi everyone, i seek a weapon that best allows me to stand my ground against the horde. so far i have tried dueling sword, shovel and power sword.

dueling sword kinda bad for this.

shovel can smack the horde around, but when it gets too big it gets stopped half swing due to the sheer mass of the horde in havoc. perhaps i lack the blessing for horde clear as ive used anti armor blessings.

power sword seems the best so far where i can swing, dodge, activate and run in to swing again. i lose ground but very slowly. only issue is due to my ping sometimes the sword will forget to activate. i really like the Zealot power sword which can block during activation but sadly we cant use that.

i have yet to try the mace, axes and chain weapons. want to clarify that my main goal is crowd control not neccessarily horde clear.

_ _
its fun sitting in a door way with power sword. if i have one person to give me time to activate the sword no one gets through

[sonic kayak]

Are you block canceling with the PSword?

[cunning haven]

im not sure. i do try to block while activating but it feels very inconsistant

[sonic kayak]

But yeah, IMO, PSword is pretty much the best bet for Havoc; It keeps the class' identity and it actually works

[cunning haven]

im not sure if that is me or the ping

[tall torrent]

remember to push with power sword

[cunning haven]

ive had it where my sword activates without the animation and ive also had it where i hear it activate but power goes off after 1 swing

doesnt the push use up a charge?

[tame lodge]

Rashad Combat Axe

[cunning haven]

i will look more into block cancel for power sword and the rashad combat axe. thanks for the guidance

[tall torrent]

no

[umbral scaffold]

Using shovel in havoc? Brave soul

[cunning haven]

only ever reached havoc 24 😅

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah shovel can work for low end havoc but completely falls off hard

On higher end

Even mid

[cunning haven]

i thought shovel was one of the best weapons

[umbral scaffold]

Non havoc it’s not bad

[cunning haven]

either flippy or spam overheads with decimator for armor

[umbral scaffold]

It doesn’t do enough damage from what I’ve seen in havoc like you wont really kill anything lol

[cunning haven]

ive tried the impact blessings in psychanium. you can knock maulers around which is quite funny. but i dont think impact helps against hordes. havent tried in a real game

i want to surive and crowd control. killing helps but not main objective

[tame lodge]

The Helbore with hotshot 1 + Shovel is the popular combo in havoc

[cunning haven]

i used to play helbore + shovel before bayonet nerf

[umbral scaffold]

I never see anyone run shovel the couple times I did they got steamrolled

vet just needs more options ngl

[cunning haven]

i wish power sword was decent when non activated. like it still a sword why is it so blunt 😅

[tame lodge]

I mean
On havoc 2

The best and only option is Psword

💀

[cunning haven]

havoc 2?

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah lol I’ve been trying mk 5 DS but I feel like I do piss poor dmg

[tame lodge]

Havoc campaign 2 yeah

[umbral scaffold]

Even with FT stacks

[little vortex]

is the plasma gun supposed to be good these days

[tame lodge]

Yeah

Peak

[little vortex]

at what

[tame lodge]

50+ cleave one shot machine

At deleting that

That being everything not carapace and boss

[little vortex]

i'm so aggressively not feeling it

[tame lodge]

How are you playing it?

[little vortex]

shout vet with frags and WS

is braced fire still shit? i recall it used to be

[tame lodge]

Yeah still shit

You basically uncharged shots ad infinitum

Or 8 times before overheating at 68.something thermal resistance

With Rising Heat and Gets Hot

[little vortex]

and then basically alternate venting and shooting to take advantage of those?

but it's still really not one-shotting things on damnation

except the obviously squishy disablers etc

gunners tho? nah

[tame lodge]

Afaik you need Unarmored for dreg gunner 1 headshot

[little vortex]

i just feel like i was doing all of the same things but better with revolver

except revolver with sufficient rending can actually fuck with carapace a little

minus the cleave obviously but like. they're never lined up. that's only a marginal win

[nimble wadi]

I’m still torn between recon las VIc and XII

[tall torrent]

then u built it wrong

unarmored + flak

[little vortex]

have flak and unyielding on the theory that reapers are worse than dregs

[tall torrent]

yes but unyielding doesn't change it too much

[little vortex]

does havoc affect that at all?

like, there might be so many more reapers that unyielding does make sense

idk i haven't pushed a lot of havoc

[tall torrent]

not rly because unarmored still matters more

[little vortex]

hm

[tall torrent]

would u rather take 1 less shot to kill reaper

or be able to 1hs tox bomber

u decide which is more important

[tidal crescent]

unarm also just better for wiping hordes right

seems like

[little vortex]

plasma vs hordes seems pants-on-head when one has frag grenades

[tall torrent]

why do u need to use plasma to wipe horde

just melee

[tidal crescent]

fun

[little vortex]

if you enjoy getting assblasted by poxers ig

[tidal crescent]

tickles me like only the boltgun could

[little vortex]

i enjoy being able to block, personally

[tidal crescent]

dont need to block if the enemy is paste

[little vortex]

can't paste the enemy if it ninja spawned behind you

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

300-375 hp is nothing to plasma

[little vortex]

also like. the numbers don't lie. but does it or does it not seem a little silly that to optimize the "no, you don't have cover or armor" weapon you have to give it extra help versus Herbert Q. Heretic who came to fight with his nurgle aids and a biggish stick and that's it, no shirt or nothing

[tall torrent]

we're playing a very silly game yes

just put unarmored + flak on ur plasma

[little vortex]

alright as long as i'm not the only one thinking that

[tall torrent]

unarmored is a very underrated perk

[steep flower]

Tox bombers do be cancerous yes; sadly only them are proper unarmored target to consider (and maybe dreg gunners cause they have some unarmored parts)

[little vortex]

dreg gunner heads are unarmored yeah

[steep flower]

Surprisingly their core body that is responsible for receiving DoT dmg is flak which is… not weird but not natural for the faction they represent

Only snipers, tox bombers, dreg shooters & groaners are pure unarmored

[grand perch]

i wish there was a +1000% damage to pox bombers perk just so i could show them how much i hate em

[boreal wyvern]

Returning Player here Executioner Stance is no longer Meta ?

[little vortex]

not being snarky: was it ever meta?

[boreal wyvern]

Yes

[little vortex]

i remember shout being far and away the best ever since it was introduced

if you mean before that, then... if you read "meta" as "best in slot" then exe stance wasn't meta because you only had one ult. that's not a slot, that's just A Thing You Can Do

[tame lodge]

Not the meta this patch

[boreal wyvern]

Wasnt there a time where you could get Executioner Stance at 100% Uptime and you were also immune to supression or smth

[little vortex]

you can still do that

suppression immunity is a talent and uptime longer than cooldown is pretty easy if you take the node that highlights regular shooters too

[sudden cedar]

It is because of a weapon blessing. I think it's called Ghost

[grand perch]

suppression immunity is inbuilt into exec stance

dont take determined in addition

[sudden cedar]

Or am i missunderstanding something here?

[little vortex]

i don't take exe stance anyway

[tame lodge]

Ghost is immunity to ranged damage

There's a blessing

Between the eyes

Immune to suppression for 3 something seconds after a headshot

[sudden cedar]

Right

[grand perch]

which is sort of stupidly antithetical to itself

hey you need help with making accurate shots under withering fire? no problem just do a really accurate shot so you can do more accurate shots

[little vortex]

nowadays if i want immunity to ranged i just do stripped down + duck and dive

[tame lodge]

cuts to it being available on Laspistols, the immune suppression weapon

[wind grotto]

I don't think it's ever been meta since we've had more skills my dude

[tame lodge]

💀

[grand perch]

and that, yeah

[hollow ibex]

VI is just straight up better

[tame lodge]

Oh also the refresh is now baked into Exec stance

So you can still keep it up ad infinitum

[nimble wadi]

Taxe needs to go to prison

[grand perch]

in my humble opinion, determined is useless

in my objective opinion, it is near 100% useless when you already get suppression immunity with exec stance

[faint beacon]

It’s useless unless you’re playing ILAG

But the question is why are you playing ILAG

[grand perch]

you mean ilas?

[heavy rover]

infantry las slander? imma throw some hands

[green willow]

what gun synergizes the best with knife

[hollow ibex]

anything can work but i'm partial to double barrel

[tame lodge]

Multi targets esque gun

[hollow ibex]

new dev blog i sleep

just show us the damn talent tree

[little vortex]

ok but:

revolver?

suppression is the only real reason i miss shots when i run the good old hand cannon

i could theoretically remove field improv for determined, but i like the support utility so much that i haven't yet

[grand perch]

theres always ways to play around suppression

[little vortex]

and i use them, but being able to no-sell it is also fun

[hearty panther]

I think of it like Until Death on Zealot

You really shouldn't need it but its utility and quality of life is hard to argue against.

A lot of weapons don't care though and hipfire is always an option.

[grand perch]

its really easy to argue against determined

you waste 1 precious point

[hearty panther]

Because Veteran is super point starved, yes. And it isn't always necessary depending on your gun (Plasma, Helbore, etc.)

But for an IAG user its pretty valuable.

Or anyone not running XStance

[tall torrent]

With revolver u can afford that

With infantry lasgun u kinda can’t avoid it unless u exe stance anyway

The rest yes

[grand perch]

nah i dont even use it on revolver. but i realise im an extremist when it comes to that particular talent

[hearty panther]

any day now Veteran will get that tree rework yesiree

[tall torrent]

It’s pretty nice to have for revolver

[grand perch]

really suppression immunity should be veteran baseline

[hearty panther]

and they'll bring back my vanguard

[tall torrent]

And u don’t need a lot of talent spec for revolver anyway

U don’t need superiority complex for example

[grand perch]

you still have a melee weapon to consider

[tall torrent]

unless u play knife u can spec any melee for revolver

u rly can afford determined lol

[crude wind]

Which one was Vanguard?

[tall torrent]

20% sprint efficiency

[crude wind]

Oh lol

Yah that's never coming back

[grand perch]

theres extra ammo right there for the picking

and monstrosity damage if you go 1 less into ws

[tall torrent]

yea could just move demo team / on your toes

taking extra ammo for the sake of extra ammo is kinda meh anyway

[grand perch]

i would take all of these talents over determined

its so little value when you can play around it

[tall torrent]

it's basic QoL

idk I like it for revolver

[grand perch]

why take QoL when you can take something solid instead

[tall torrent]

like what lol

the extra ammo doesn't matter enough in modes where revolver is good

the ogryn dmg doesn't matter enough for either revolver or axe/power sword in modes where revolver is good

[grand perch]

if you dont like extra ammo or extra damage theres still close order drill

[tall torrent]

I rly think it's just a "choose what u like" scenario

yea then again can just drop demo team for it

demo team is not that high value for krak

[hearty panther]

;_; shut up you dont know that

[grand perch]

but why would you drop such a fantastic talent like demo team to enable QoL like determined 😄

[tall torrent]

cuz it's nice to be able to shoot straight regardless of suppression?

[grand perch]

agree to disagree i guess

[tall torrent]

what's wrong with preference

[hearty panther]

you have to prove your preference mathematically against a perfect model