veteran-class

[tall torrent]

Shredders need to be a more preemptive tool for stagger if you’re using power sword

Especially if u play power sword + plasma

[tropic notch]

Yeah I try to throw before i engage

[thorn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-so-much-bow-bruce-lee-gif-12203305886570866249

[tall torrent]

Which results in every attack action you do having some sort of delay before the attacks come out

So u need to do everything preemptively before the rest of ur dps hits

If u just dumb rush into a mixed horde, u will get hit

[tropic notch]

I always try to funnel mixed hordes

[formal ice]

Quick question for you ceterans

[pseudo fiber]

What's your question soldier

[tropic notch]

Tbh on knife vet I throw myself at ragers and some mixed hordes

[formal ice]

When yall become the third best class again?

[tropic notch]

But that’s knife

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

Maybe in 2027

[tropic notch]

This a xbox moment

[pseudo fiber]

Probably next year or like december this year

[formal ice]

As planned

[pseudo fiber]

I feel the power scaling will be more difficult to decide what the worst is then though

[formal ice]

Well I mean, all class are good now

[tall torrent]

Current vet is 4th

[pseudo fiber]

I think when zealot gets a rework the best class discussion is gonna get real interesting

[formal ice]

But if we compare everyone veteran is the worse now

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah but it's like fine

[formal ice]

Exactly what I said

[pseudo fiber]

P much

[formal ice]

[pseudo fiber]

I should play some ogryn now

I don't think I have since the pickaxes were added lol

[formal ice]

Since the train update?

[pseudo fiber]

The one before that

[austere mica]

Pickaxes were from Secrets

[formal ice]

Well, turns out I am not here long enough to know what were the updates before the train one

[pseudo fiber]

Secrets of the machine god (Bolt pistol, shock maul, DB shotgun and pickaxes)

Before that was path of redemption which was the penance rework

[austere mica]

Good, Mid, Peak, and Busted

[pseudo fiber]

then before that was traitors curse part 1 and 2 and before that was patch 13

[formal ice]

Biggest weapon update, yes?

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah

well

[formal ice]

[pseudo fiber]

new weapon

Technically traitors curse had the most

[formal ice]

Still its funni

Hopefully next update they focus more on adding weapons instead of upgrading the tree of veteran or something

[austere mica]

It'll be zealot

[pseudo fiber]

It'll probably be new weapons

[austere mica]

Gods willing

[pseudo fiber]

Skulls announcements are big

usually the first update of the year is alright

[formal ice]

Veterans will be depressed for 2 years

[austere mica]

Womp womp

[pseudo fiber]

They give us a melee weapon in June who cares

[formal ice]

The plasma pistol
Literally a bolt pistol reskin

[pseudo fiber]

Plasma pistol should be multi class I think

[formal ice]

Well... If so then also the plasma gun

1 less class weapon for veteran

[austere mica]

I mean

[tropic notch]

Vet needs a melee before a ranged

[austere mica]

Zealot and Psyker lost class exclusives

Guess who's turn it is

[formal ice]

Zealot again of course

[tropic notch]

Ps zealot

[pseudo fiber]

Why? Plasma pistols thing could be that it's multiclass

[tropic notch]

[formal ice]

Give the electrical toothpick for ogryn

[stuck gorge]

chat can we just make DS psyker exclusive again

[pseudo fiber]

Won't fix it

but cats out of the bag anyway

[lilac kayak]

Hell gun

[formal ice]

Explode DS

It never existed

[stuck gorge]

say it was mass hysteria and it was never a non psyker exclusive

[loud belfry]

delete DS, give psyker force DS

[tropic notch]

Give vet power ds

[loud belfry]

honestly......

[formal ice]

Rework DS to make it parry

[loud belfry]

relic ds for zealot

[stuck gorge]

give zealot relic DS, and make it extremely long for no reason

[wary ember]

I always wanted the veteran class to get an lmg of some sort if those exist in 40k

[pseudo fiber]

I mean power sabre would be awesome

[formal ice]

Literally the relic blades for melee

[stuck gorge]

ogryn just gets a shard of metal and they call it the DS

[lilac kayak]

Nerf DS

[stuck gorge]

it doesnt look anywhat similar but it makes them feel good

[void dragon]

Dueling sharpthing

[formal ice]

Unoriginal

[stuck gorge]

buff every weapon in the game so that DS is dog shit

[tropic notch]

Isn’t there a thinner version

[formal ice]

Flip the tables and make DS a class

[tropic notch]

Tac axe take over

[stuck gorge]

except that one

it stays current power level too

(i just dont like it)

[tall torrent]

no, it's already in people's inventories

[stuck gorge]

every character with it is now converted into a psyker

[tropic notch]

@slow sky I did a tac axe run on vet and it went well it’s not too bad

[austere mica]

That also isn't a solution, psyker DS is still really good

[tropic notch]

Gotta use a stam mode tho

[tall torrent]

lol no

[lilac kayak]

Imagine the outrage

[tall torrent]

do yall even think before u type

[austere mica]

Psyker wit da relic blade

[austere mica]

Nope

Not even close

[tropic notch]

I can’t think

[tall torrent]

yea ik

[tropic notch]

Ok be nice to me

https://tenor.com/view/demoted-russian-kid-russian-kid-crying-discord-mod-gif-23854964

[pseudo fiber]

Literally noone here does lmfaooo

[tall torrent]

I am very nice to u

https://tenor.com/view/happy-steam-steamhappy-gif-11912067498964962572

[tropic notch]

Something I did yesterday while running the Rashad I kept push attacking a door because i was trying to use it like a knife

It’s it over for me?

[hollow ibex]

This would make me uninstall the game

[pseudo fiber]

I think you're gonna start smelling toast soon yeah

[tropic notch]

[tropic notch]

Poof

Gone

Playing tac axe destroys my concentration

[pseudo fiber]

So tiktok brained you can't process peak

[tropic notch]

I gotta lock in when I play it

[tropic notch]

Be nice to me

[faint beacon]

Baby sensory video fucking brainrot

[tropic notch]

You gotta do this to me for me to pay attention

Otherwise I sleep

I need that combo counter

Or kill counter

[red robin]

Take it as an compliment, ur tiktok brain makes you react to specials spawn sounds similar to brainrot sound effects in a YouTube short

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/steamhappy-meme-steam-tg-bratishkin-gif-274347585508037432

[frank basin]

Like this example video?

[red robin]

Conditioned to stimuli like pavlovs dog

[tropic notch]

Born to run knife forced to play tac axe

[red robin]

I hear it, I hate on sight

Specials will be killed upon arrival

[tropic notch]

@shy iris is a goat I need to run the new havoc with him (cough)

[red robin]

Wtf

Bro is the perfect darktide teammate

Hyperfocused savant going ham on the killfeed

[tropic notch]

Me, pav, and pendragon ran like back to back 40s

[frank basin]

Tiktok female voice over “watch this I doing this”

[tropic notch]

One time pen was a smyker

[red robin]

“You won’t believe what happens to this trapper”

[frank basin]

“This trick will help you in havoc”

I can hear female voice over tiktok

[tropic notch]

I’m pretty sure when havoc was released we queued up and ran through his 30s

[red robin]

“What you should do when you hear this ‘wanna kiss meh!’”

[tropic notch]

Our set up was 2 psykers, zealot, vet

[red robin]

Ty flamer for having a line I can’t hear any other way

[tropic notch]

Yeah pav and pen are awesome

[hidden tree]

OK whats the best gun for havoc 40

people telling me plasma and i dont get it

[heavy rover]

depends on the rest of your build

like for my build, I run Focus Target and shocktrooper. I also run the mk iib infantry las with Ghost. So the build is a dedicated anti-range / anti-special / anti-elite. Bosses and crowd control are handled by the rest of the team, generally

[hidden tree]

yea thats what i have for plasma

do you use blaze away?

[heavy rover]

I haven't really gotten a lot of time with the plasma gun, though I am aware that blaze away is an option with it

[hidden tree]

do you ever use bolter mk IIb on hav 40?

i want to make a build for it

[narrow frost]

@hidden tree This is what I've been using

[heavy rover]

haven't been getting much use out of the boltgun, though I am aware that it's Puncture / surgical / Calvacade and pinning fire/ shattering impact

Depends if you want pinpoint shots or magdump

it's hard for me to recommend a build since I'm not familiar with your playstyle

[red robin]

Man

I want to make a plasma gun build

[hidden tree]

why lacerate instead of flesh tearer?

[narrow frost]

easier to apply

[red robin]

But my ocd won’t let me have a plasma gun that ain’t min maxed stat array

[heavy rover]

I suggest looking at the Hammer of the Emperor guide on the pins and look at the recommended blessings and perks for them. Then build your talents to complement those

[pseudo fiber]

Are the tac axe people here

[narrow frost]

yes

[sharp epoch]

bro is monching the ammo

[narrow frost]

yup

with 3 horde clear people

[pseudo fiber]

Can I get a tac axe build for vet

[narrow frost]

1min

need weapons and curios?

or just talent

[hidden tree]

so you dont use the bolter for bosses or whatever?

[narrow frost]

I use it on everything

besides horde

[hidden tree]

does kill zone proc alot?

[narrow frost]

yes

[hidden tree]

on hav 40??

[pseudo fiber]

Talents + weapon also like what gun do you use with it lol

[narrow frost]

yes

well

[hidden tree]

damn

[narrow frost]

it it skill based

[worldly bone]

anyone free? i will stream i need someone to teach me the gmae

[hollow ibex]

You just need the standard melee build with weapon specialist

[narrow frost]

I can help, but internet is dying

so I am not playing

[alpine wadi]

is puncture any good on boltgun?

[hollow ibex]

Yes

Helps with breakpoints

[hidden tree]

why not long shot over killzone?

[alpine wadi]

that was quick! what about inspiring barrage?

[hollow ibex]

Longshit

[hidden tree]

for the bolter build

[worldly bone]

its fine just watch stream i will ask questions u can lead me

[narrow frost]

a terrible talent

[hidden tree]

damn

[narrow frost]

yes, that will work

[hollow ibex]

Not really taken because most people go for damage blessings

[hidden tree]

what curiuos you use for hav 40?

[narrow frost]

3 tough

• tough +gunner res +stam regen

all 3

[pseudo fiber]

Appreciate it gamer I'll give it a go

[hidden tree]

why not use shattering impact for bolter

[tall torrent]

not meaningfully important on veteran

[narrow frost]

^

[faint beacon]

Destroyed 4k worth of Melk bucks

for

7 Perfect Curios

Worth it imo

[tall torrent]

gale when're u continuing penance section

[faint beacon]

Probably tonight or tomorrow

got some shit to do here soon

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[sharp epoch]

wow ive been using power sword but ds is much better for vet on havoc at least

[tall torrent]

for running away from problems & safety yea

in every other metric, nah

[hidden tree]

why maniac instead of unyeilding?

[tall torrent]

flamer 1hs kill

[hidden tree]

last question promise

[sharp epoch]

Bosses it's way better at dueling them, and the main threats you need melee for are crushers/maulers/ragers it's better for

[hidden tree]

?

[tall torrent]

boltgun 1 headshot kill both flamers

[faint beacon]

Ragers are a huge problem in Havoc that and it’s a BP to instantly kill Flamers

[tall torrent]

power sword is better vs crusher/mauler/rager/bulwark

[hidden tree]

yea i suck at power sword

then again i havent used the other mark

mobility or stability dump stat? for the bolter

[tall torrent]

mobility dump on veteran

[sharp epoch]

show me 1v6 against ragers with ps

[tall torrent]

every energized melee attack staggers 3

are u doing DS-only zero resource no hit ?

[sharp epoch]

Yes I did that

powersword you gotta play almost perfectly, if you mess up once you get cooked hard

[tall torrent]

DS also doesn't 1 tap ragers in havoc

if it did, yea it's better

[hidden tree]

yea this build is good and fun thanks

never realized how good determined was

[tall torrent]

use resources then

it's generally rare to get melee-only zero resource scenarios in havoc

[sharp epoch]

And against bosses too the extra mobility helps a lot more with ds

[tall torrent]

DS is like

4~5 hits to kill bulwark

crazy

[sharp epoch]

maybe single ones but waves of bulwarks your gonna die either way with a ps

[tall torrent]

again, u have resources

melee-only zero resource is a niche scenario that starts to be less and less applicable against density and with teammates being there

[hidden tree]

would yall say get back in the fight is better or catch a breath?

[tall torrent]

CaB all the time

[hidden tree]

really??

[sharp epoch]

both, but catch a breath is easier to path toi

[tall torrent]

it's not remotely close

[hollow ibex]

GBITF has been bad for a very long time

[sharp epoch]

oh wait yeah catcha break

is better

[hidden tree]

for plasma gun what about rising heat or blaze away

[sharp epoch]

rising heat is more consistent

[hidden tree]

thats what i thought

[sharp epoch]

blaze away I find I gotta just be spamming clicks and you dont really have time to acquire targets

[hidden tree]

same

what perks do you use for hav 40?

[sharp epoch]

on what weapons?

[hidden tree]

plasma

[sharp epoch]

^

unarmored flak

[hidden tree]

what website is that from

[hybrid plover]

looks like steam

[tall torrent]

my work-in-progress steam guide

[hidden tree]

damn

bro is cooking

[heavy rover]

you can see the draft in the Hammer of the Emperor guide in the pins

[tall torrent]

that one hasn't been updated for like

6 months lol

[hidden tree]

dm me the newest one please

[heavy rover]

still pretty useful tho

[tall torrent]

I can't, not without adding contributors

just tell me which parts u want

[hidden tree]

id have to think about it

do yall think redirect fire is worth it for plasma gun

[tall torrent]

outside of havoc & mortis, yes, if u want the best breakpoints possible

[hidden tree]

inside havoc

[tall torrent]

in havoc it doesn't matter for pushing breakpoints much

[hidden tree]

wdym

[tall torrent]

very literally

[hidden tree]

idk what pushing breakpoints means

[tall torrent]

it doesn't make u 1 tap more things in havoc

[hidden tree]

oh

i see

[sharp epoch]

when I see the bolt pistol dueling sword build on h40 i cry

[hidden tree]

grenade veteran moment

[sharp epoch]

and theyre usually trash

[hidden tree]

yea its kinda weird how people suck with those builds

ive been playing with the wrong perks and blessings on hav 32 this whole time till now

[sharp epoch]

meh just keep trsting

testing

[hidden tree]

yea im taking yalls builds and adding onto what i enjoy

idk if i should take desparado while im using a powersword or not and i have 1 talent point left with it on lol

[sharp epoch]

desperado is really good

[hidden tree]

now i have 1 left lol

no idea where to put it

[sharp epoch]

whats your entire tree look like

[hidden tree]

plasma gun and power sword build just for fun

gonna try it on havoc

i used it earlier on auric and found myself running low on ammo SOMETIMES not always

but i didnt go down

[tame lodge]

No Precision Strikes?

[hidden tree]

yea i was thinking that but the plasma is so inaccurate right?

[faint beacon]

@narrow frost Honestly looking over that bolter build you think O4B pathing might be as good as well?

[narrow frost]

maybe?

I like the stam node though

[faint beacon]

Bleed would proc O4B Toughness Gain

[narrow frost]

I didn't struggle with toughness

but that might just be me

[hidden tree]

O4B?

[narrow frost]

I was able to clear elites and specials for Voc

[gilded raft]

Plasma beam is the size of a human torso, you'll hit headshots by accident even. Drop the weird double grenade nonsense and go get those left side gun nodes

[narrow frost]

out for blood

[tall torrent]

drop tinkerer, get superiority complex

also get WS

over middle keystone

[hidden tree]

i tried that and never noticed it activating even in havoc

[tall torrent]

duelling sword scales better with middle keystone than power sword

[faint beacon]

I'll do small tinkering, I more find myself suffering from not committing cause of Bolter draw speed

[hidden tree]

and reload

[tall torrent]

superiority complex gives plasma 1hs vs both shotgunners, and power sword 2~3 hit vs crusher, mauler and bulwark in havoc

[faint beacon]

Less the reload its more the sudden special jumpscare and I have to slowly draw out my "Fuck off and die" cannon

[hidden tree]

so yall think double nades not worth it

[faint beacon]

Not really if you're running Stockpile + Team

Why care for the double when you can just spawn them into existence

[tall torrent]

twinned blast is ok

depends on what u can afford at the end tho tbh

[hidden tree]

most of the time no lol

what about desparado for knife? is it overkill?

[tall torrent]

it's great synergy

[hidden tree]

its not too much wasted crit?

[tall torrent]

why would it be wasted

a crit-dependent weapon that has high dC and dCW scaling

[hidden tree]

true

[hidden tree]

should i ever take anything other than for the emperor for like bolters or plasmas?

like keep their heads down and born leader

[tall torrent]

born leader is usually the best choice in that specific row

but for non-havoc it doesn't matter too much

in havoc it matters because everyone has low toughness so born leader's value suddenly spikes up

[hidden tree]

yea

conflicted between determined, born leader, or grenade tinkerer

[tall torrent]

again, what does ur whole tree look like

and what weapons are u using

[hidden tree]

bolter and chainsword for the memes

took off determined so I have 1 talent point

[tall torrent]

for havoc?

or base game

[hidden tree]

havoc

ik chainsword sucks

but it can be done

[tall torrent]

I use this for power sword + plasma

[hidden tree]

would you use the same for a bolter and chainsword or knife?

[tall torrent]

I don't run boltgun in havoc
if knife, I'd spec into one of the stamina regen delay reduction nodes, it helps a lot

but I don't like knife that much

it builds bad habits just like duelling sword

[hidden tree]

yea i just like the animations lol

[hidden tree]

thanks for the advice and help

[hidden tree]

oh one more thing, what curios do YOU prefer for that build on havoc?

i see people take stamina sometimes

[tall torrent]

17% toughness (x2)
21% health

5% toughness (x2)
15% sprint efficiency (x3)
20% gunner resist (x2)
4% ability cooldown (x2)

stamina is kind of overrated

[hidden tree]

thats what i thought too

[tall torrent]

it's not bad

u can like it

[hidden tree]

yea but i never notice myself needing more

[tall torrent]

I just don't think it's as widely applicable as toughness or health

[hidden tree]

that too

[tall torrent]

especially for veteran

because veteran's stamina problem is horrendous

and most of ur stamina cost comes from sprinting

3x sprint efficiency scales better than +3 stamina a lot of the time

and allows u to take health or toughness

both of which are greater value than 3x their respective perk

it's just basic maths

[hidden tree]

you think toughness regen is ever worth?

[midnight totem]

quick question, Fatshark mentioned they'll be changing dueling sword. Any changes made yet or not yet?

[tall torrent]

no

[narrow frost]

never

[tall torrent]

not yet

[midnight totem]

ty

[hidden tree]

damn ok lol

[midnight totem]

I've taken dueling sword off most my zealot and vet builds anyway

back to knife for me

[midnight totem]

wait really? 1 x3 stamina curio isn't worth... 3x sprint efficiencies?

[hidden tree]

it does make sense

[midnight totem]

not even for shovin'' and shit?

pushstabs

[tall torrent]

if u have 5 base stamina, let's say power sword
+3 gives u 8, a 60% increase to total sprint duration
3x sprint efficiency gives u 8.1417 effective stamina for sprinting, a 62.83% increase to total sprint duration

for pushing, ur more limited by stamina regen delay than total amount of stamina

outside of very niche scenarios

[midnight totem]

... huh

[tall torrent]

u can push as soon as u have >0% stamina

[midnight totem]

thats some good math. Also makes me wish we still had that old vanguard node

I miss that 20 percent sprint regen everyday

[hidden tree]

i miss executioners stance reloading my guns

[tall torrent]

this is actually in favour of +3 stamina btw

if u take middle route and get +1 stamina

+3 stam becomes 50% increase (+3 to 6 = 9)

[hidden tree]

so is that 62.83 on top of the 60 or thats with the sprint instead of stam?

[midnight totem]

I usually take movespeed

[tall torrent]

8.1417 effective stamina is 162.83% of 5 stamina

8 stamina is 160% of 5 stamina

[hidden tree]

i understand

[midnight totem]

I'm going to assume that this is with basically every character too then

not just vet

[tall torrent]

on psyker sprint efficiency doesn't matter (neither does stamina tbh)

getting more stamina doesn't reduce blocking attacks' stamina damage

on zealot, sprint efficiency is ok but not as good as stam regen rate for them

because zealot has 1.5/s base regen rate, which can go up to 2.04/s with 3x stam regen rate

for ogryn, sprint efficiency is better, but not to such a massive extent cuz u normally wouldn't build +stamina curios for ogryn anyway

so all in all

good on veteran
secondary to stam regen rate on zealot
worthless on psyker
preference on ogryn

[sharp epoch]

bolt pistol dueling sword is so bad on havoc have to carry them

[kind ridge]

Anyone know a good build for vellore lazgun. I'm trying to 1 shot anything with flack

[calm shard]

Mk IV helbore innately one shots every flak enemy except maulers

[hearty panther]

there are dozens of us

[hot whale]

Fellas..

How do y’all feel about the infantry lasgun

Like I wanna make a build around it but I dunno where to go

[formal ice]

Sniper build

Left side

[midnight totem]

infantry lasgun is decent nomatter what you do, tbh

its not going to win any awards for carapace damage

[hollow ibex]

ilas is eh

[midnight totem]

but if you can beam heads, you will kill just about anything else in the game reliably

[hollow ibex]

i can't stand vet without the melee talents anymore

[formal ice]

Infinite bloody grenades are there

[midnight totem]

gotta have that attack speed eh siro?

[formal ice]

[midnight totem]

I feel the same way

[hollow ibex]

i like having 4 nades but it's hard to even get that because ilas tax

[formal ice]

Uhhhhhhhh you just use like 2 points

[hollow ibex]

"just"

[formal ice]

Just

Depends

[faint beacon]

It seems like two points but you have to take into consideration how important talents are to certain guns

[hollow ibex]

honestly given ilas' role in the game, it should just have built in suppression resist

like bistol of all guns has suppression resist

[tall torrent]

I finished 2 more sections

now just 2 blessing sections left

[gilded wraith]

We could get rid of the peak mechanic and make vets class gimmick ranged suppression immunity.

[hollow ibex]

i forgot there was a peak mechanic

[errant carbon]

Ironically peek is not peak

[hollow ibex]

fuck

yeah peek

[errant carbon]

Who wants to magnet themselves to cover like it's 2009

[atomic zephyr]

mk2b ilas with fullauto mod and weapon customization feels like im playing call of duty

10/10

[atomic zephyr]

not having to dedicate points to determined would be nice

[sharp epoch]

never take determined 🤮

[atomic zephyr]

i like being able to duel gunner lines

[errant carbon]

If Suppression ever bothers you just take a weapon that has perfect accuracy without aiming down sight

[sharp epoch]

I mean your going exe stance most of the time which already gives suppresion resist

[atomic zephyr]

isn’t that just plasma

hmm the

true

I usually just take it as convenience

[sharp epoch]

its a waste of a node if your pathing in that direction precision strikes is way better

[hollow ibex]

yeah, if your character in cod had parkinsons

[unreal forge]

wouldn't be so bad if the blitz connected to one node like with ogryn

[hollow ibex]

yeah vet gets taxed pretty heavily for jumping between archetypes

[narrow frost]

who did he think he was? I was alt tabbed

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent i studied the blade sensei

i had 4 bursters pushed onto me

[warm schooner]

lewd

[grizzled pebble]

JUST DODGE LMAO

[tropic notch]

it was a trauma staff

https://tenor.com/view/steamhappy-meme-steam-tg-bratishkin-gif-274347585508037432

One of your many disciples @grizzled pebble

[grizzled pebble]

[tropic notch]

I had to solo a bon with a ps

I’m spent

Now I play purg psyker

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1165799772700033085/1244165742094581812/watermelon2.gif

I didn’t even run plasma I ran d barrel

Wif da power sore

My head hurts

[shut orbit]

What do people think about the mk12 recon lasgun currently?

It's really fun but it feels like it doesn't do nearly as much as a bolter/plasma gun, and ammo is a pain

[sharp epoch]

theyre great, I haven't seen a successful vet in havoc with it though

[shut orbit]

I'm also never sure whether to use deathspitter or infernus

[sharp epoch]

Infernus + Dum Dum is the way to go

[narrow frost]

Bomber did a flip

[grizzled pebble]

Do u have the talent giving free ammo on crit?

It's really efficient with it i can play a h40 and only need like 5 smol ammo and 2 big

[shut orbit]

I do, but I find the crit on dodge perk to be finicky

[grizzled pebble]

Tbf I use infernos and headhunter

For more crit

[shut orbit]

I'm sorta stuck with my last talent point, Rending Strikes seems nice for better damage against armor but Target Down is really fun and having a near on-demand team heal is really nice

[still pollen]

Why do shooters still shoot me when I already threw my smoke nades down?

[unreal nova]

You need to move. They shoot at where they last saw you.

[regal belfry]

hold the supression fire

[grand perch]

i think thats the farthest my portrait ever tried to escape its frame

or maybe my right ear is the new center of my face

[stuck tree]

https://tenor.com/view/afraid-dog-pup-puppy-hiding-gif-17297710

[crimson wyvern]

i dont think ever ever seen a border so close up and so high quality before

[warm idol]

use shock trooper

altho mk12 still runs into ammo issues on havoc with it

mk6 is much more ammo efficient

[heavy rover]

If you want to stretch for even more ammo efficiency, I suggest the infantry las

[plucky linden]

whats the best overall shovel?

[sleek garden]

The classic

Wood handle

poke attack

[karmic moat]

did they slow down the rate at which one can stab with the helbore's bayonet?

[tame lodge]

Yes slightly

[tame lodge]

Standard or 7

Standard is pretty safe and it'll eventually kill hordes

7 beats on dangerous targets and it'll eventually kill hordes

[mossy monolith]

it only cost me 3 mil but i got it

speaking of veteran
whats a good curios combo
rn im using 3 stamina, 1 21% health and 1 17%

[normal bay]

I think most run one stam and 2 toughness curios on vet

That's what I do at least

[mossy monolith]

and the perks?

[plucky linden]

so first one? ty. Decimator+Uncanny I guess?

on Hellbore, Hot-Shot acts in a way that it just increases cleave of the gun as long as first target hit is a weakspot, right?

[normal bay]

No clue what optimal is but I run 3x toughness, 3x bealth, 2 gunner res and 1 sniper res

[grand perch]

hotshot is one of the blessings with the wrongest descriptions

what it actually does is, it halves the amount of cleave a target takes off if you hit its head. meaning in theory you can hit twice as many enemies of that type if their heads line up

also it applies to your melee weapon as well, even when the helbore isnt currently wielded. which is the real reason to take it

[serene bough]

its my favorite i have two builds for you

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9dae207f-6a4f-4862-ae10-5dfd41b2a242/iib

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9eae9e82-0af7-4cc0-9b93-c40e5b66e9d7/vii

[blissful fractal]

they should add a longlas and a melta gum

[serene bough]

idk how useful a longlas would be in the current meta of the game

[tame lodge]

Me after getting a long Las on rogue Trader

https://tenor.com/view/always-sunny-frank-oh-my-god-i-get-it-gif-22328165

Make the cleave like Sniper's
Then add a charge

[heavy rover]

My personal favorites among all the ranged weapons

[night marten]

Hellgun

[karmic moat]

Lucius Pattern my Beloved

[karmic moat]

I am appalled and enraged

[lusty ether]

I find myself really disliking the reticule on the infantry lasgun

Dunno if it's a colourblind thing, but I just find it hard to see enemies through it easily.

[serene bough]

The muzzle flash can be annoying at times

[hot whale]

Woah, thanks dude

[loud belfry]

welp, there's a mod for that

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/277

ive never used it tho.

[plucky linden]

oh, had no idea.
but yeah, i wanted to take it so that I can snipe specials covered by a horde. if it requires headshots to line up, it's kinda... meh

[blissful fractal]

useful? dawg it would be fun

[serene bough]

true

but i would prefer a melta or plasma pistol first

[grand perch]

doesnt work like a plasma gun, sadly...which actually has 50 cleave on left click shots, like the blessing for helbore claims. at best with helbore you might get a 1-2 more basic enemies if theyre lined up. youre sitll not going to cleave through a scab rager head for example

HOWEVER dreg ragers go down to 2 hit mass with hot shot headshot, allowing 1 cleave to pass through and hit another target

[pearl mason]

Heck I want the Hellgun before I get a Longlas. But couple a longlas with infiltration and it would be like vermintide's musket/hunter Markus had.

Best idea I hope to see would be a new class ability that allows you to swap to a third heavy weapon similar to Bardin's steam gating gun and allow us to sub spec into what we are looking for out of that ability.

[grand perch]

i do not ask for new weapons anymore because no matter how many get added, people will always always ask for more. theres never enough, even when theres no niches left to be filled and old weapons are in dire need of updates

[serene bough]

never enough weapons is good

[pearl mason]

The more iconic Warhammer weapons would be nice though.

[serene bough]

yeah the wh40k universe is an invitationt to include more iconic weapons like power fist, melta, etcetc.

balance can always come later, love me some variety

[pearl mason]

Truthfully I just want my Scion armor and Hellgun plz.

[fervent quest]

Would be cool to have Volleyguns and Heavy Stubbers. Backpack ammo, make them work similar to braced autoguns, balanced by being slow AF or something

[pearl mason]

I've never really understood the idea behind balance in a pve game. But game devs know better than this frag grenade chucking shotgun enthusiast!

[grand perch]

you need balance so people actually want to use these weapons and youre not spending precious dev time on weapons no one uses anyway

[pearl mason]

No disagreement to that. It would be nice to see fellow vets not sporting the strobe flashlight.

As much that is.

[raven scaffold]

Sup! I just made some funky build I'v tested on aurics so far. Feel free to test it out in the field and let me know what you think. 🙂

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9eae3884-108e-46d2-b7dc-87ab541dff95

[hollow ibex]

Why does everyone insist on taking GBITF 🤮

And drop longshit

[grand perch]

both these talents sound useful at first until you learn just how dogshit they are

[hollow ibex]

Yeah actual bait

[grand perch]

try this

[raven scaffold]

I insist on some constructive feedback after testing, personal opinions at first sight and your household vocabulary will be simple ignored.

[raven scaffold]

I considered this also but situationaly this perks helped me in some cases but will try it.

[hollow ibex]

Do what tac axe suggests

[grand perch]

Suppression on plasma does make normal shooters run for cover immediately, that's the only case where it's really useful

KTHD

[hollow ibex]

It’s not like the build is bad

Just needs some adjustments

It’s also on fatshart not explaining how anything fucking works

[pearl mason]

Anyone know the best blessings for the shotgun?

[hollow ibex]

Depends, check 📌 for guide

[grand perch]

longshot is such a trap because it starts at 12,5m with 0.6% extra damage - essentially jack shit

ramps up to max dmg at 30 meters out which is a lot farther than is useful

[serene bough]

i think plasma prefers WS over FT

someone corroborate pls

[hollow ibex]

Other way around I think

[grand perch]

hard disagree, not a finesse weapon

[serene bough]

also, is killzone worth currently?

[grand perch]

doesnt need the extra crit

on that, im not so sure

if the 15% extra damage hits any notable BPs

[serene bough]

in this particular build id rather put that point into marksman for 20% power

in addition to your recommended changes

but im inexperienced with plasma breakpoints so i would need to test to see

[grand perch]

its possible you hit gunner weakspot oneshot without the need for unarmored perk

[orchid hemlock]

Dogwater

Longshot is ass, GBITF is dogshit, suppression is bad except on BAG/Plasma/Bolt, Focus Fire is ass without redirect, Killzone is ass

There is my constructive criticism

[hollow ibex]

Rude smh

[raven scaffold]

So its true what they say about orcas. Go throw some penguin around until it dies.

[serene bough]

he is correct about those perks though, ignoring the bluntness of the comment

[hollow ibex]

Orcas watched too many tanner videos. It’s rubbed off on him.

You’ll have to forgive him

[orchid hemlock]

I can explain why, but I like to get straight to the point

[serene bough]

i think its effective, can always explain if they ask

[orchid hemlock]

Nah I'll go Tanner mode and default to saying: "I'm a vet main that solos aurics"

[pearl mason]

Veteran needs a rework fr

[formal ice]

2 year laters

[wanton dawn]

Your opinion on killzone is ass

[orchid hemlock]

Ur mom

[serene bough]

i prefer calm and well mannered discussions personally

[pearl mason]

Keep the dream alive

[orchid hemlock]

On the Internet?

[grand perch]

kill zone is actually cool now

if you need the 15%

for BPs

or if youre like me and mostly go for exec anyway

[serene bough]

yes, just because im behind a computer screen doesn't mean i want to behave like a troglodyte... sometimes i do though lols

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/trog-troglodyte-homm3-hota-gif-27522415

[orchid hemlock]

The reason why I don't like it, is I'm always meleeing

[hollow ibex]

Maybe don’t get hit

[formal ice]

Who is this Doppelganger?

[serene bough]

H40 is actually really easy, just dont take damage and always land perfect hits

[orchid hemlock]

Shrimple

Never take damage, don't run out ammo, hit every target, do every objective

[raven scaffold]

Truth is I played weapon specialist and focus target alternative meta builds with all the things you guys mentioned for long time and felt like vet build rn is limited to this path and playstyle only. Just fucking around and what comes around comes around "this perks is shit take this" "vet rework pls" "reeeeeee"

[orchid hemlock]

Most of the "meta" builds you see on games lanterns aren't actually meta

[serene bough]

i unpopularly prefer the left tree the most, but the middle tree and the right tree definitely have some really "must take" nodes

[orchid hemlock]

"you NEED to take survivalist"

No you don't

Unless it's havoc

[serene bough]

all the melee related perks on the right i include in all my builds, and points down to tac awareness in the middle are always recommended

[orchid hemlock]

Also 99% of these builds don't take agile engagement, which is probably one of the best talents in the entire tree

[unreal nova]

Too point taxed to go for it tbh.

[orchid hemlock]

99% of these builds also never take Rashad, which is probably one of vet's best melee weapons

[serene bough]

meh, agile engagement is great but its not a must have in all builds

what karien said, too many points to go for it

[tame lodge]

Played but I never used gbitf (VoC + Iron Will never breaking toughness lol)
And most of my encounters were close to mid range, not a lot of value from longshot

It has Precision and Iron Will though

I'd say 6/10

Needs small tweaks

[raven scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/keyaan-john-wick-keanu-reeves-gif-2384046765437701795

[unreal nova]

Unless you are already going for smoke and Close and kill.

[hollow ibex]

Reddit said vet doesn’t need rework, so it must be fine.

[raven scaffold]

Ogrynkek fits this sentence well

[serene bough]

i dont think vet needs a hard rework like ogryn

VoC needs heavy rebalancing though

[tame lodge]

Oh but I didn't use that bleed knife mainly because non bleed knife>>>>>
But at least it's Flesh Tearer and not lacerate

[hollow ibex]

Vet isn’t in as bad of a state as zealot or pre rework Ogryn

But the tree definitely needs a rework

And the dogshit talents need changes

And the entire arsenal needs to be looked at

So in other words… a rework

[faint beacon]

See the issue is if you touch any of those weapons it will also buff Psyker and Zealot

[unreal nova]

More like, make all the top and middle nodes path interwined so you aren't as heavily taxed on blitz and aura.

[serene bough]

i dont think the tree is that bad

[hollow ibex]

Well there’s definitely a lot of underperforming weapons in the game in general

[serene bough]

its just that shredder, survivalist, and VoC just cannot be competed with

[tame lodge]

Pre reworking the future psyker and zealot rework

[serene bough]

these need to be rebalanced accordingly in addition to buffing other blitz, abilities, and auras

[unreal nova]

The real reason they feel good is cos the competition is bleah.

[serene bough]

well, a hard 9m stagger that instantly heals your toughness + 50 gold toughness with all its listed benefits, located in close proximity to nodes that reduce CD by a flat 6 seconds, provide 50% TDR, and centered in the middle of the tree for easy access to all bottom branches of the vet talent tree... it'll be difficult to make the other two abilities compete with

[unreal nova]

More about 'nades.

[serene bough]

and dont get me started on shredders vs kraks and smokes lols

[unreal nova]

Remember, a Trauma psyker can do more or less what they do without rng or 60 sec cd.

At least between kraks and shredders.

[raven scaffold]

Smoke is good for fun of throwing it in midle of melee fight and make your team confused

[serene bough]

im less concerned about power between other classes and more concerned that within the vet tree variety is heavily limited bc of the power of, for example, shredders compared to the other blitz

[unreal nova]

And well, oggy 'nades be oggy 'nades. At least those are limited.

[unreal nova]

I'm just as concerned because then why even play vet if every other class do stuff way better?

[dreamy scaffold]

gun

yell codenames

[hollow ibex]

Gunker is honestly the better gun class rn

[unreal nova]

Say hi to gunkers poofing bosses and such.

[serene bough]

well you can buff the other blitz instead of hard nerfing shredders

[faint beacon]

Nah

nerf Shredders they do way too much

[serene bough]

shredders are not the issues as much as the combination between shredders and uncanny imo

[hollow ibex]

Sure, right after the other classes get nerfed

[serene bough]

id rather reduce some stagger to shredders and make kraks stagger more, in addition to higher blast radius and other armor related debuffs for the enemy

[unreal nova]

No point in nerfing vet atm unless every other class gets hard nerfed.

[serene bough]

and smokes having some support utility like toughness regen

[faint beacon]

VOC exists still

that needs nerfing

Doesn't really matter lmao

[unreal nova]

Is the only thing vets have that even matter.

[faint beacon]

Yeah? nerf it

lol

[hollow ibex]

Nah

[dreamy scaffold]

pls dont hurt my fav character more

[hollow ibex]

I was all for nerfing VOC

But ogryn rework happened

[unreal nova]

Unless everything else gets heavily buffed, tell me why would you play vet then?

[dreamy scaffold]

fun

[hollow ibex]

And I couldn’t give a flying fuck. VOC is fair and balanced now.

[unreal nova]

Oggy is now so hilariously overtuned...

[dreamy scaffold]

its my most played character

[serene bough]

i mean this is just theory crafting

[tame lodge]

FS really just buffed psyker
💀

[hollow ibex]

Assail needed help!

[dreamy scaffold]

after they nerfed it for being op

[serene bough]

we could discuss vet between other classes too but i really dont feel like it at the moment lol

id rather think about ways to make smoke, krak, infil, and exec better

[dreamy scaffold]

smokes giving a team buff would be awesome

[tame lodge]

True so they buffed the core of right side psyker

💀

[serene bough]

TBH Tac awareness is more of a problem than VoC

-6sec flat for specialist kill is stupid lols

[unreal nova]

This is it tbh. Most ppl path what they do cos the other stuff just feels bad or weak to use.

Sure, you can compensate with skill, but eh?

[dreamy scaffold]

does smoke actually do what its supposed to? i used it for the penance but.. didnt really see whether it was effective

[serene bough]

regarding abilities, VoC is the only one that actually helps the teams, exec and infil are less obvious in their assistance and sometimes even hurtful to take

[unreal nova]

It does, but feels weak. Enemies still shoot at where you were so you need space to move.

[serene bough]

i regard it as a discount psyker bubble

[unreal nova]

Don't bother with high ping.

[dreamy scaffold]

with none of the benefits?

[serene bough]

it'll obstruct vision so enemies cant target you, so its good if you have an open area full of gunners

but like, thats the only reason to take it

[dreamy scaffold]

niche

[unreal nova]

It's useless with high ping and packet loss.

[serene bough]

and then you're giving up shredders, which hard staggers and bleeds everything, leading to room wipes

[unreal nova]

You still get shot anyway.

[serene bough]

yeah, enemies will still shoot into smoke, so you may get pelted in the crossfire

[tame lodge]

It works on every ranged enemy (except bombers) and dogs as long as you stay inside the smoke

[unreal nova]

It might save you from snipers while rescuing/pick ups, but that's about it.

[tame lodge]

So yeah it works

[dreamy scaffold]

kinda sad

[grand perch]

i wish they would base last longer

and maybe regenerate without further point investment

but theres loads of ideas to make smoke more interesting

[unreal nova]

Or just a mild DoT effect to everything that walks into it.

[serene bough]

ultimately this is the main issue with vet tree, Survivalist, Shredder nades, and VoC are undisputed best in slot across the board so other options feel like you're playing a gimmick

[unreal nova]

Just mortis smoke.

Is fun.

[serene bough]

people say survivalist isnt "needed", but its necessary in havoc and even when not necessary, just more useful than 5% dmg or move speed imo

[dreamy scaffold]

because of team effect right?

[serene bough]

yeah, shredders hard stagger and wipe mixed hordes ( also applies to uncanny so it can penetrate armor) in addition to vets various grenade regens makes it the best of the blitz

Survivalist is gonna make ammo a non-issue in maelstrom, and in havoc its essential for people bringing heavy weapons that require every bit of ammo they can get their hands on

VoC gives gold toughness and a 9m stagger, can be spammed easily, and is far better and clutching situations than the other two abilities

gold toughness alone already makes VoC better than the other two abilities

[unreal nova]

Honestly, infil needs it's nodes baked in.

[dreamy scaffold]

..i run infil

[serene bough]

i do like infiltrate, i use in my personal build

[dreamy scaffold]

i dont play havoc vet tho

[unreal nova]

Would make it a more viable pick up instead of taxed to heck.

[dreamy scaffold]

i also have zero “flushed” out builds, if it sounds good i have it

and if it works for me

[serene bough]

i think all the active abilities should have only 2 sub-nodes to pick from with the others baked in, thats another think about VoC, it only requires 1 point for their sub-node

[serene bough]

fortunately for auric difficulty many builds and weapons will suffice, but in havoc you'll find the meta makes build variety more restrictive

[calm shard]

at least some of them

fuckin' four upgrades

[pearl mason]

Yeah the lower threat feels like it should ya know be there

[serene bough]

i actually despite that node

[calm shard]

That's one of the ones that should stay as an optional upgrade

[serene bough]

it just screws your team more often than not

[pearl mason]

It's good for rez I have found

[calm shard]

It's good for doing specific objectives or for single handedly killing large groups of ranged enemies

But otherwise just kinda fucks your team

Well no it's actively worse for revives than regular infiltrate

[unreal nova]

I would assume either the Damage or the damage reduction.

[calm shard]

Because instead of sharing aggro with the person you revive every single enemy just focuses them

Right after they get revived

[unreal nova]

The lower aggro should be a subnode.

[gilded rock]

At least two of them baked in

[serene bough]

i actually run hunter's resolve and overwatch, but that's bc in my personal build i dont path down middle for tac awareness or iron will

wouldnt call it optimal just my preference

[pearl mason]

I don't use it enough to know, I prefer to scream at the karkers

[unreal nova]

Or maybe just give both damage and damage reduction upon popping out, sub nodes is the lower aggro and the 2 charges.

[calm shard]

I feel like double stealth and TDR should be basekit for Infiltrate

And then have Infiltate itself give like attack speed or something

[serene bough]

i like this, but also, make them last longer than 5 and 10 seconds

[unreal nova]

I think both at 10 secs would be fine.

[pearl mason]

My biggest issue is the smoke grenade, throwing a wet fish would be more useful!

[serene bough]

i prefer 15 seconds, just bc the cooldown is 45 seconds base

[calm shard]

Smoke grenades are good

[orchid hemlock]

Smokes are extremely useful, especially in havoc

[gilded rock]

Smokes actually quite good

[unreal nova]

Smokes only suck if you lag.

[orchid hemlock]

The problem is they are on the right side of the tree

[gilded rock]

It's not cracked in melee but it does the job it's made for quite well

[unreal nova]

It's like you aren't throwing anything.

[calm shard]

They're just difficult to build for, and hard to justify over the literal best grenades in the game (Shredders)

[serene bough]

I think smokes are kinda garbage tbh

[pearl mason]

Shredders are god tier

[serene bough]

its one of those things that you can make redundant with better positioning

[orchid hemlock]

Smokes are very useful in basically turning half of the gunners into melees

[serene bough]

but yeah, sometimes chaos causes positioning to be imposisble and smokes can help that defensive niche

[orchid hemlock]

It also stops snipers

[midnight totem]

You know what would be nice for smokes? make them highlight enemies within the smoke

[calm shard]

and dogs/flamers

[unreal nova]

Is why I want it to do things. Choking gas effect would be nice.

[pearl mason]

My issue with smokes is it screws over every other gun user with a fat cloud

[serene bough]

this is a good idea

[orchid hemlock]

There is a mod I think that sorta fixes that

[calm shard]

you can see through smokes if you're standing inside them

[unreal nova]

But that REQUIRES modding.

[pearl mason]

Yes but for anyone not moving up it's an obstruction.

[unreal nova]

And before you say whatever to console players, it needs to work for everyone.

[orchid hemlock]

Also I think u can still highlight in smoke, u just can't highlight in gas

[formal ice]

A grenade made to blind... Highlighting the enemies

[orchid hemlock]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/398

[formal ice]

[unreal nova]

This just sounds like a cheat mod.

[pearl mason]

I think it would be better as a gas grenade or something. Obstruction and DOT.

[orchid hemlock]

No it's confirmed as a bug

[serene bough]

it's supposed to blind them, but we would like to shoot back at them too

[orchid hemlock]

You should be able to ping thru gas cloud

Because you actually mark things and there is a sound que

[midnight totem]

its not exactly a sci fi concept, colored smoke grenades have been used for concealment, movement, signaling, defense, and marking targets

[formal ice]

I am still not the strongest smoker to see though smoke

[unreal nova]

Then that's just FS at fault.

[serene bough]

you're skaven, if anyone could do it, you can

[pearl mason]

There is no such thing as Skaven

[midnight totem]

He's not Thanquol

[formal ice]

Boo

[unreal nova]

But yeah, Smoke needs to be less overbearing in terms of visual clutter for the players.

[tame lodge]

Nah
It stops lots of enemies interacting with you
Not getting shot and enemies not interacting with you are very different things

[midnight totem]

Anyway, my point is, so a smoke grenade has a little holy water in the mist, help mark these heretical enemies

[calm shard]

I feel like having it mark enemies would be a lot of visual clutter though

[midnight totem]

We already shout loud enough to stagger plague ogryns

[calm shard]

When the whole reason you'd want to do that is to make smoke less visually cluttering

[serene bough]

just mark ranged threats, perhaps?

[calm shard]

Just make the smoke effect more transparent and lower to the ground

[pearl mason]

Slap some Windex Double Blessed in there and watch the heretics melt!

[serene bough]

i dont really see how tbh

[formal ice]

The zealots don't trust the veterans sadly

Wait wrong one

[formal ice]

The zealots don't trust the veterans sadly

[midnight totem]

Well, it still won't be cluttered as marksman giving the whole team wallhacks

[tame lodge]

Good position isn't going to make flamers run around like blind cockroaches

[unreal nova]

Wot. You mean shrieking psykers.

[calm shard]

Dogs can't pounce you, Trappers have to be in the smoke to shoot at you, Flamers have to be in the smoke to shoot at you, Ranged enemies that want to shoot you will walk into the smoke to try and get an angle since the smoke blocks LoS

[unreal nova]

I'll say this, half of that doesn't work if you are lagging.

[serene bough]

ive heard mixed things regarding smokes and trappers, dogs, and flamers

some say its useful others say it does nothing

[tame lodge]

You're immune to dogs and flamers inside the smoke

[pearl mason]

Seriously?!

[serene bough]

idk how much i believe that tbh, ive definitely been shot at by flamers in smoke clouds

[pearl mason]

I've been sniped through smoke

[unreal nova]

If you have like 200 Ping, they will.

[tame lodge]

Yeah dogs don't jump if you're inside the smoke

[tall torrent]

not flamers

flamers have to get very close

[pearl mason]

Perhaps I'll give it another chance

[tall torrent]

but they can still track players

[serene bough]

i dont think i have problems with ping but ive still noticed

[tall torrent]

hounds lose tracking

[tame lodge]

Yes and this makes them crazy

[unreal nova]

Cos at that point, you aren't where you see you are on the server. So herp.

[tame lodge]

Probably because of their combat ranges

[pearl mason]

Still prefer chem weapons

But fair enough!

[unreal nova]

It's more or less worse with lag.

[tame lodge]

It is very important that you're inside the smoke

Otherwise you don't get the concealed effect

[unreal nova]

I'm pretty sure I am with a twinned to my feet.

[midnight totem]

Point is. Smokes are considered... slightly underpowered compared to the other options

... so let's nerf zealots!

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/niculau-nicolas-cage-trip-pedro-pascal-movie-movie-trip-gif-10473773258249426452

Twinned smokes

[unreal nova]

Yes.

On carnival.

[tame lodge]

What a power move huh

[unreal nova]

because extra funni.

[calm shard]

they're underpowered compared to shredders

which is true of everything basically

[tall torrent]

5 intro sections left in guide

[calm shard]

I would still point solidly at Krak grenades as the worst grenades in the game

[tall torrent]

just finished void shield

[serene bough]

god speed

[tame lodge]

Damn, well get vet guide this year

[tall torrent]

finished all blessings for veteran

[tame lodge]

Huuuge

[serene bough]

the god emperor of mankind is underpowered compared to shredders

[unreal nova]

Needs a shorter fuse timer.

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/ZN2kqij

[unreal nova]

When grenade tinkerer halving the fuse timer?

[tall torrent]

so now it's missing
5 intro
21 melee
? curio
? enemy
? build

? penance
? havoc

[tame lodge]

Havoc and it's just "pick another class"

[unreal nova]

Why do you think it's everyone else needs nerfs, or Vet needs buff to everything that isn't shredders or VoC.

[tall torrent]

penance and havoc might come after public release

I don't prioritize them anyway

they should be quite short

[midnight totem]

What if:
Shredders keep as they are.
Kraks also inflict a damage taken debuff on enemies they don't kill.
Smoke grenades add a movement speed buff to allies inside it.

[serene bough]

vet having a source of gold toughness and ammo regen will always make them a viable havoc pick

[unreal nova]

Oh and that CDR note, that doesn't need a buff.

[tall torrent]

krak yes
smoke no

[calm shard]

movement speed buff to the smokes that want you to stay inside them

[tall torrent]

my idea for smoke was for every player inside smoke to be locked at 100% stamina

which means infinite block, push, push ATK and deadshot

[midnight totem]

Sounds a lil strong, but also cool

[tall torrent]

yea let's make vet strong

why not

[midnight totem]

Vet needs to be strong, with a power fist

[unreal nova]

Or it being choking gas, small damage, chance to stagger smaller enemies, lower chance to knock down.

[tall torrent]

don't count on it

[tame lodge]

I'm afraid tweaking numbers aren't going to be enough
They'll have to tweak some activation conditions as well

[tame lodge]

💀

[midnight totem]

Vet guide will come out when Fatshark reworks cash shop

[unreal nova]

Might be related to time spent in the gas increasing the effect.

[calm shard]

yeah and some talents really need to be moved around

[unreal nova]

I mean, it was more in general.

[tall torrent]

I think biggest remaining sections are melee weapons and enemies

[tame lodge]

Just dodge 🤷

[calm shard]

also only just now realizing since we were talking about smokes

that they completely disable the plasma gun twins AI

they don't even throw their mines

https://imgur.com/a/gmfQviy

[tame lodge]

Personal note
Use pox gas to hide from plasma lieutenant

[midnight totem]

Nice

[calm shard]

regular scab/dreg captains also do the same thing until someone engages them in melee and they switch weapons

[midnight totem]

What if smokes made enemies move and attack slower inside it?

[serene bough]

by general balance ideas for the blitz are:

Shredders:
Reduce stagger moderately
Remove interaction w/ uncanny

Kraks:
Increase blast radius to make cluster kills more common
Decrease fuse time before explosion
Heavily increase stagger radius
Apply brittleness to anything in blast radius
Heavily increase unyielding damage
Base carry capacity of 4

Smokes:
Add support utility for being in smoke like toughness & stamina regen

[tame lodge]

Who'd win
Trained elite noble
Or
Vape

[tall torrent]

not my idea for krak

[serene bough]

oh i thought it was you who mentioned

[midnight totem]

Doesn't need base carry capacity of 4. Three would be nice though

[tall torrent]

my idea for them are

frag bleed 6 stacks nerf to 5 stacks
krak massively increase unyielding damage, cause enemies hit by blast to get x?%damage taken for 5s
smoke makes players inside smoke cloud have 100% stamina and x0% stamina cost

[calm shard]

yeah smokes basically only need some kind of buff when you're inside them that makes it obvious that you're inside them

their effect is plenty strong on its own

even if pathing to them is fuckin' annoying

[midnight totem]

There are no enemy slow effects or abilities. Maybe smoke grenade slows enemy movement and attack speed?

[tall torrent]

I want krak to deal at least 10k dmg to unyielding

[calm shard]

I feel like it's more important that you can tell you're inside the smoke more than if enemies are

[tame lodge]

Real like clouds on the corners of your interface
(Like a reduced version of inside the Tox gas)

[serene bough]

yeah kraks should be boss chunkers and armor crackers, as the name implies

i really want to use kraks in some of my builds

[hasty grove]

Me wishing I could convince my friends to do an all veterans wearing Cadian armor strike team

[calm shard]

okay tested it some more and that whole "completely disables gun twins AI" thing might be more true than I initially thought

if their LoS gets obscured by a smoke screen while they are aiming a shot they actually just...freeze?

Like they just stand there

and don't move

that seems like a bug

[blissful fractal]

ya'll if they added a melta gun would you want it like the one in SM2 or the one from DOW?

Personally I prefer the DOW depiction as its a straight beam that eviscerates everything in that range with extremely high pierce but not necessarily the best for hordes (but extremely good against elites and bosses)

[blissful fractal]

with one person using a las pistol and chainsword + voice of command, one person using Helbore + Stealth, the other 2 using the marking one and either a lasgun or plasma gun and all 3 usin shovels or knives?

[hasty grove]

Voice of command w plas gun and Kasrkin armor, two sharpshooters in standard flak armor and a lightly armored infiltrator

[dry cloak]

boofie wins

flawless victory

[blissful fractal]

i was goin for for a more standard squad aesthetic

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/6S5LomN

[tame lodge]

"Rinda, watch me hit the mannequin challenge"

[calm shard]

I was just trying to get a clip showing how smokes block LoS even if you aren't standing inside them

It's just a hollow sphere that enemies aren't allowed to shoot through

[orchid hemlock]

Me throwing a buffed krak at a beast:

[orchid hemlock]

Nah bro, smokes are garbage btw

[dry cloak]

smoke havoc meta

[orchid hemlock]

A 2 hour unedited YouTube ranter told me so

[dry cloak]

when

[orchid hemlock]

I did actually do this in the last havoc rotation

The problem wasn't the smokes themselves, it was just hard to not waste points to get survivalist and smokes