veteran-class

[dry cloak]

kantrael lasgun encompasses 4 weapons iirc

[lusty ether]

Wild that your mind goes straight to that, dude.

[sleek garden]

for real? I thought it was just the infantry lasguns

[unreal nova]

Everyone has their favourite way to play... Even if it's sus as all heck. if it works, it works.

[dry cloak]

one heavy laspitol if im not mistaken

[stuck rock]

Las pistol was so much better than i thought it would be

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/catgirl-gif-21822175

[unreal nova]

It just hurts your finger alot and requires hedshots. XD

[lusty ether]

heavy laspistol is good fun

[lusty ether]

No, only my enjoyment is valid. You should stop playing veteran.

Play my way or be wrong.

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/idk-yes-no-maybe-scarecrow-gif-23290347

[hollow ibex]

you don't have the full auto mod?

[unreal nova]

Maybe you should play WS 'nadier vet then. >_>

[loud belfry]

karien doesnt mod because............................

[lusty ether]

;-;

[hollow ibex]

unironically yes

[unreal nova]

I don't mod for reasons.

[sleek garden]

Vet is probably the class most punished by not striking weak points

[hollow ibex]

console?

[sleek garden]

Also the subtitle of veteran is sharpshooter

[dry cloak]

Psyker

[unreal nova]

No. I'm tired of having to update every big patch for live service or ongoing games.

[hollow ibex]

psyker has auto aim on half their stuff lol

[sleek garden]

Psyker can bank on crits a lot

[hollow ibex]

at least get the full auto mod

it hasn't been updated in like a year lol

[loud belfry]

but vortex helps you auto update and you'd probably only get like 20 mods anyway

[sleek garden]

But in melee it's really hard to miss weakspots

[unreal nova]

Look, generally unless you pick absolute dog waste nodes, I don't care too much what people decide to run. Games are all about having fun anyway.

[loud belfry]

(mods)

[unreal nova]

You have not seen my games. I hated the 50 mod limit on DRG as well.

[lusty ether]

I feel like you missed the heavy sarcasm in the inital joke reply.

[unreal nova]

My L4D2 has over 300 mods or so.

[unreal nova]

I can't read sarcasm and jokes well.

[loud belfry]

welp barely any mods break when the updates happen anyway

last time only like 10 ones broke and they were specifically identified

[lusty ether]

It was heavy sarcasm.

[hollow ibex]

Yeah the modding community is on top of this shit

[loud belfry]

i feel like "No, only my enjoyment is valid. You should stop playing veteran."

is such obvious sarcasm it hurts

[unreal nova]

But yeah, I hated having to wait days for QoL mod fixes for DRG to go back to playing if they break...

[unreal nova]

Well, some people are serious about it. Not kidding btw.

[loud belfry]

just pay attention to the mod discord, get their list of broken mods when an update happens, and then disable those

[loud belfry]

well yes, most all sarcastic statements COULD be serious in some contexts or circumstances.

[hollow ibex]

Well in this instance, it’s him making a sarcastic strawman of things I said earlier lol

[loud belfry]

even that is obvious to me and i barely paid attention to the convo

[unreal nova]

It's probs easier to tell when you actually know people in a smaller community. I just take many things seriously since it's safer than otherwise.

[loud belfry]

you just gotta get better at reading people, feeling their feelings

[slow spade]

L-l-lewd~!

[unreal nova]

That's harder than well, the hardest metal. Especially with text only.

[loud belfry]

not really

but everyone has their shortcomings or whatever

[slow spade]

Part of why I use "UwU" people really cannot tell sarcasm in text

[hollow ibex]

This is sarcastic right, because you said UwU?

[loud belfry]

on another note i wonder how hard it is to read sarcasm and "feel people's feelings" when you're not a native or fluent speaker

probably very hard

[slow spade]

"Use scouts with snipers and marines with missiles"

"Use scouts with snipers and marines with missiles UwU"

[loud belfry]

that could definitely still be an actual suggestion

[slow spade]

That is a DOGSHIT suggestion no matter the context

[unreal nova]

It's not language issues. I just struggle to understand emotions in text. It's hard enough with body language and voice.

[slow spade]

Hence why I need UwU as even the most obviously bad advice is taken seriously

[loud belfry]

yeah, i dont think it's a language issue for you. though...maybe....

but it's probably more just some other thing you have

[unreal nova]

Pretty sure it's Autism.

[loud belfry]

possibly. autism doesnt always mean you lack empathetic abilities tho

[slow spade]

A lot of ESL people are more fluent in English than English speakers but will struggle due to slang

[loud belfry]

some autistic people probably have better empathy than normal people

[unreal nova]

It's just a mess.

[lilac stump]

Maybe I'm late to the convo, but I'm very surprised about the fact that veteran cannot do a ranged mostly build. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's shocking. Now for me, I think we're more like Kasrkin lore wise, than the average Astra Militarum troop.

[slow spade]

Its a result of enemies getting tougher + ammo regen getting nerfed

[unreal nova]

To animals or other autistic people, yeah. Text in general is... well...

[lusty ether]

It's hard to balance ranged only.

Guns are safer and usually stronger than melee.

[slow spade]

You still CAN do effectively infinite ammo with Shocktrooper + lasgun

But its not as effective

[lusty ether]

So if you can only use them then you're probably safer and stronger than you should be.

[hollow ibex]

You can, you’re just going to have a harder time

[unreal nova]

You technically can, but you need to be babysitted by people.

[loud belfry]

that's generally the case for people who learn a language later in life/when not a super young child because they have to learn it unintuitively or more strategically or consciously

[lusty ether]

Seems like quite a specific definition of "fluent".

A lot of ESL are 'more grammatically correct'.

[loud belfry]

but seeming to be a native speaker is quite a lot harder

for any language

[slow spade]

Learning English by getting into fights on the internet > professional English classes UwU

[lusty ether]

I wouldn't say they're that often more fluent.

[loud belfry]

also yes, you can technically argue that fluent =/= grammatical perfection

because native mistakes are almost the language itself

[unreal nova]

But I am, for English. it's so bad I can't speak my Mother Tongue well because I grew up on western media and such, lul.

[lusty ether]

Talking in idiomatic, colloquial, and slang terminology, etc, is all part of fluency, imo.

[loud belfry]

probably a difference between technical fluency and native-like fluency

[unreal nova]

I can listen and understand Mandarin, yes, but not properly speak it.

[loud belfry]

what language did you learn as a baby/very young child?

[hollow ibex]

remove the UwU and i'll agree with you.

[loud belfry]

what language does your mom speak? what language did your mom speak to you as a baby etc?

[lusty ether]

It's why I tend to say that English is actually harder/more nuanced than many ESL like to argue.

[slow spade]

Its the correct way to learn English

[unreal nova]

English. I like X-men, TMNT and Power Rangers.

When I was tiny. I was reading English newspaper when I was 4.

[lilac stump]

Exactly what I've seen with the previous build, were I had my iLas and mostly used it.

[slow spade]

As a language it is but there's so much more exposure and incentive to learn it turns back into "easy"

[loud belfry]

japanese is the most cursed language ever from what im realizing trying to learn it

[unreal nova]

Mom? English and Mandarin. Though more English. Grandma was the one speaking Mandarin and Malay to me, lul.

[loud belfry]

i see

[slow spade]

Idk why the Asian cultures developed their language the way they did

[loud belfry]

japanese basically encompasses almost all of chinese (in a way) and then has its own shit on top of that

[slow spade]

Truly an "interesting" method

[unreal nova]

I'm not really saying it in a bad way... But it does mean you will suffer if you aren't around others who will actually watch your back, in sense, and help you with chaff.

[dry cloak]

Try lerning Polish

[slow spade]

Yeah I get China basically "asked them nicely" to use Chinese and they simply adapted it over time but whew

[dry cloak]

Or finnish

[unreal nova]

Naw, they just have loads of Chinese loanwords. Was how lil sis and I played JP only games on the 3DO. XD

[slow spade]

Seeing the Scandinavian languages made me hate linguistics

[loud belfry]

hardest languages for english speakers to learn are not those languages

The School of Language Studies provides training in over 70 languages.

Category I: Languages closely related to English.

Danish, Dutch, French, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, Swedish

Category II: Languages that take a little longer to master than Category I languages.

German, Indonesian, Malay, Swahili

Category III: Languages with significant linguistic and/or cultural differences from English.

Albanian, Amharic, Armenian, Azerbaijani, Bengali, Bulgarian, Burmese, Czech, Dari, Estonian, Farsi, Finnish, Georgian, Greek, Gujarati, Hausa, Hebrew, Hindi, Hungarian, Icelandic, Kazakh, Khmer, Kurdish, Lao, Latvian, Lithuanian, Macedonian, Mongolian, Nepali, Pashto, Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Sinhala, Slovak, Slovenian, Somali, Tagalog, Tajiki, Tamil, Telugu, Thai, Tibetan, Turkish, Ukrainian, Urdu, Uzbek, Vietnamese

Category IV: Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers.

Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean

[hollow ibex]

and a bunch of english loanwords too lol

[loud belfry]

wall of text

[lilac stump]

Oh, I know. I'm playing only pug and on top of that my weapon isn't fully upgraded. so I was suffering a lot, that's why I've gone with something more sturdy for now until I feel that I can hold my own for a bit.

[loud belfry]

no like literally every single word has a chinese pronunciation

it isnt just loanwords

[slow spade]

Norwegian is closely related to English?

[loud belfry]

that's what the onyomi pronunciations are, from the dialect of chinese at the time

[slow spade]

Bruh

[loud belfry]

i mean, of course it is

it's a latin language

or at least uses the script

[grand perch]

ROMANIAN closer related to english than german
all my wats

[dry cloak]

It has latin alphabet

[loud belfry]

this categorization isnt about like

closeness

it's about how hard it is

the first stage they say they're close though

[tall torrent]

does anyone know if there's a way to hook up laptop display screen to pc

[grand perch]

Category I: Languages closely related to English.

[slow spade]

Could have fooled me lol

[dry cloak]

Its germanic origin iirc

[unreal nova]

Yep. Probably a build better used with people you get to know tbh. Pubs is kinda each man for their own in most cases.

[grand perch]

german is way closer related to english than most of these

[loud belfry]

tell that to the us state department i guess

i think this list is based on how long their learners take to learn

[dry cloak]

A h yes the USian scientists

[loud belfry]

some chinese sentences can probably be read with moderately accurate pronunciations by japanese people. though they wont be all that accurate, probably (tones not withstanding). and, of course, the japanese reader must read all the characters in their onyomi

[lilac stump]

French and English go a long way back though 🙂

[tall torrent]

maybe 5 sentences lol

[loud belfry]

yeah probably not a lot

would have to be very convenient sentnces

[unreal nova]

I don't really look up languages tbh. I just know Kanji basically is that.

[tall torrent]

大丈夫
da zhang fu (CN)
dai jou bu (JP)

[loud belfry]

could be worse

[dry cloak]

A the beatiful history of one invading the other

[loud belfry]

i think sometimes the japanese pronunciations arent from the same dialect as mandarin came from

not sure though

[lilac stump]

I mean... 116 year war is kind of an achievement by itself. Mostly french speaking noble fighting each other though!

[unreal nova]

They mean different things though, lmao.

[tall torrent]

yea

[dry cloak]

How you heard about the september revolutio that happend in november?

[loud belfry]

polish is hard though, apparently

[dry cloak]

It is

[loud belfry]

https://www.state.gov/foreign-service-institute/foreign-language-training

[unreal nova]

The problem with Mandarin is extremely tonal. Each word can be read in 4 different ways which will change the meaning of said word.

[loud belfry]

scroll down a bit and there's a list of a bunch of languages sorted by difficulty with even how long their people take to learn it

chinese, japanese, korean, arabic, all take 88 weeks apparently

[dry cloak]

You learn language your whole life

[unreal nova]

And then the sentence itself and usage of said word can change the meaning yet again.

[loud belfry]

yeah, this is for the context of some state department stuff

[loud belfry]

i thought every hanzi only had more or less one pronunciation

unless by word you meant letter combination (example: xiao) via pinyin, in which case yeah xiao has 4 different tone forms

or whatever number, idk chinese

[unreal nova]

That. There's a reason why a simplified Chinese English dictionary can kill people.

It's hilariously thick.

And mind you, the font was tiny even.

[grand perch]

if mandarin needed to be simplified, why didnt they just start speaking english smh

[unreal nova]

No, Chinese.

There's traditional and simplified.

[loud belfry]

yeah technically you dont say it's mandarin that needs simplification cuz mandarin is a dialect of the spoken form

and the simplification is only for the hanzi

[unreal nova]

And how they look and write.

Traditional is more... complex, so to speak.

[tall torrent]

no, 1 letter can have >1 pronounciations

地 can be pronounced as Di or De

[unreal nova]

As said, Chinese is hard. Lul.

[loud belfry]

ah yes, the multiple etymology hanzi

how common are those? ive noticed them before

[void dragon]

Me reading all of this about the Chinese language: I think it is quite unwise for my goldfish brain to try learning that language

[dry cloak]

Pal

We have lil uns to protec

[unreal nova]

Very. I wish I could show you my old dictionary which is very outdated.

[void dragon]

Cut can't I do it without reading or speaking?

[unreal nova]

Thing is thicker than a yellow pages thing.

And far heavier.

[void dragon]

Don't want to lear 4 variations of a word when trying to say "bathroom"

[loud belfry]

english speakers when they realize the nature of the word set:

[unreal nova]

English is easier to pick up than the mess that is Chinese. Heh.

[loud belfry]

probably

[void dragon]

Far easier

[cobalt lance]

Please explain to me what each of Veteran's keystones does

It has too many letters for me to understand

[hollow ibex]

MMF = more damage while headshotting/critting
FT = more damage through tagging
WS = swap weapons, and win

(left to right)

[agile mango]

on my trinkets for havoc out of the three which do I drop for 3 gunner resistance:

• ability cooldown
• toughness
• stam regen

[narrow frost]

cdr or stam

depends how well you can manage your stam

and/or if you take any of the stam recovery nodes in the tree

[hollow ibex]

sprint eff > stam regen anyway for vet

[agile mango]

thx

[agile mango]

why?

slide-tech makes sprint cost less stam anyways

[hollow ibex]

because vet has horrible stam regen delay, and most of your stam usage is prob going to be from sprinting anyway

[agile mango]

it's 1 second. same as ogryn. they buffed it from 1.25.

[hollow ibex]

yeah except ogryn gets way more base stam?

[slow spade]

The big man is just a bit fat, he'll get his stam delay back down :c

[cobalt lance]

Which one is better for spamming shooting/

[slow spade]

Probably Focus Target unless you're getting good weakspot hits

[lilac stump]

the swap weapon and win thing though is mainly play as a zealot unless they're shooting at you from afar :/ It really feel like a lesser zealot

[sharp epoch]

fast firing guns use marksman focus

[cobalt lance]

Fast firing guns suck

[hollow ibex]

[unreal nova]

Or FT, I guess.

Or go keystoneless because point taxed to heck.

[hollow ibex]

yeah FT's good as just a general purpose keystone

[sharp epoch]

its cause they got power crept basically no buffs in a while to infantry lasguns or autoguns and the fact that exe stance vet just plain sucks

[lilac stump]

is keystoneless viable ?

[hollow ibex]

only really done with recon

because keystones are still quite powerful

for most weapons

[lilac stump]

I guess so, I'm just not finding something that I like. Maybe it's a sign that I should probably play another class. I've really tried but I really suck at vet. Either I survive but I don't like the game play. Or I like the gameplay but die every 2 scenery :/

[calm shard]

yeah, but some weapons don't value or care enough about keystones

I run keystoneless power sword/bolt pistol in havoc

Because I invest more into grenade spam

[hollow ibex]

keystoneless bistol in havoc makes sense

all your breakpoitns prob get fucked anyway

[pseudo fiber]

Why not take grenade tinkerer over grenadier?

[calm shard]

I do sometimes. Still kinda undecided on whether funny 14 meter shredders are better for me than having another grenade

[pseudo fiber]

Depends on density I suppose

Honestly I might copy your build but lose twinning to take ws

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stroke-cat-having-a-stroke-pet-animal-gif-7898751840225419814

[pseudo fiber]

I fucking hate reloading

[lilac stump]

What I also dislike about Vet talent, is that either you take Exec Stance or you have to upgrade your grenade...

[tall torrent]

what why

[regal belfry]

play staff psyker

and go boom

[narrow frost]

huh

[lilac stump]

Just look a the tree, VOC ? You upgrade your nade - Infiltrate ? Either you upgrade your nade or revive someone 20% faster. you're probably going ot take the nade upgrade.

[narrow frost]

I see

but nades are so valuable

they are worth it

all 3

but yes, pathing to your ability is a bit rough

best path is VOC

[hollow ibex]

the vet tax is real

[unreal nova]

Very, VERY real.

[grand perch]

back in my days, we used to be the broken class!
we could reload our bolter instantly, son!

[hot whale]

Yo is keystoneless valid for recon las?

[grand perch]

yup

[hot whale]

Like most of the builds I see for it go for focus target but I just can’t path my way to it

[hot whale]

Word.

[sharp epoch]

reloading one time every 30 seconds wasnt op 😬

[regal belfry]

out of curiosity how would you nerf ds

[lilac stump]

at least this one kinda work. I'm tired of dying becuase I'm using a rifle. I just took every toughness generation I could. Is it overkill probably, but I didn't die in an Auric Damnation, which believe it or not is a milestone for me.

[sharp epoch]

i would remove it from vet and zealot it was balanced on psyker tbh

[pseudo fiber]

no

[sharp epoch]

uhhhh recon lasgun right

[lilac stump]

ilas, I don't have the mats to level up a gun right now.. just spamming like my mouse to its breaking point.

[sharp epoch]

ilas is not that good with shocktrooper tbh I'll show my recon last build though cause its similar

your also wasting a point on the right with the non talent node

[lilac stump]

the 5% crit chance ?

I like my crit chance :\

[sharp epoch]

Yeah if you're gonna path to the crit might as well take the extra grenade is what I do

this is it on a malestrom so it works pretty well

[hollow ibex]

MMF with recon las is a choice

[sharp epoch]

if you got aim it works, and with good fundamentals of never getting hit

also tunnel vision synergizes with deadshot

[hollow ibex]

a lot of things work, but recon is not a great pick for MMF

you're better off taking FT tbh

[sharp epoch]

im pretty sure 75% ranged finesse is better than 20% damage buff

[tame lodge]

Cut the cleave on lights

From 4.5 to 1.5

[sharp epoch]

Honestly that would also be a valid change

[grand perch]

recon has horrible finesse modifier tho

[hollow ibex]

idk what the exact numbers are for recon las' finesse stats, but recon las is not a finesse weapon

[sharp epoch]

zealots and vets use it as psuedo horde clear, psykers only use it for muties or bosses

[regal belfry]

psykers have staffs for horde clear especially vb or inferno

and a lot of soulblaze

[hollow ibex]

ah yes

[regal belfry]

which weapons would need the most a buff beside shredder pistol

[hollow ibex]

SAP is fine now imo

[dry pike]

Hi, does anyone have any idea what the best weapons would be for a new player?

[hollow ibex]

you can use whatever you want until you hit 30

though rn meta for vet is powersword and rashad

but both weapons require specific talents/builds

so just use whatever you want

for ranged weapons recon las is a good/simple weapon to learn the game with

[regal belfry]

or infantry autogun

[grand perch]

ACHLYS COMBAT AXE

fuck i hate that thing

[dry pike]

I’ve been running the combat axe and the infantry autogun

But I might switch out the autogun because of the recoil

[regal belfry]

is there a taxe which is worse?

[grand perch]

no theyre all better imo

[regal belfry]

how so?

[tame lodge]

Taxes are bad in general

[hollow ibex]

they get much better when you get max rolls, but yeah until then...

[hollow ibex]

ur bad in general

[grand perch]

thems fighting words

[tame lodge]

Anyways
Dclaw needs flak bump

Lasgun 9

That one infantry auto

[grand perch]

my main gripe with achlys caxe is the moveset

[regal belfry]

hsword?

[grand perch]

it's horrendous

[tame lodge]

Combat shotguns

[tame lodge]

Devil's Claw

It straight up sucks against flak

[regal belfry]

i ment as hsword aswell?

[tame lodge]

Hsword is pretty good though

Just not against carapace

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

[grand perch]

and look at this fucking cleave on achlys light attacks

0.001 what the fecking fuck

[regal belfry]

is a safety razor

[tame lodge]

Like bump Dclaw flak
Give mk1 a Strikedown after a push or something

Like cleaver 6 or ironhelm thammer

[regal belfry]

if i use dclaw i use mk4

[tame lodge]

It's either 4 or 7

1 is on the bin till second orders

[regal belfry]

i like 4 more cause of the direkt strike down

[fading yarrow]

"Have some ammunition. Sefoni loves you. Mwah~"

https://tenor.com/view/blade-runner-2049-gif-7993237219332977809

[hidden tree]

whats the best devil sword mk?

[tall torrent]

IV or VII, mostly down to preference

if u don't mind complexity, VII is technically a little bit better now?

[regal belfry]

mkiv has pushblock attack -> heavy chain

weird that i use for all generic human weapons the hammer of the emperor guide

[unreal nova]

To be fair, it generally just works. Might have some sus breakpoints but eh. Just don't use lethal prox on Bistol for Zealot and Psyker.

[regal belfry]

i don't use bistol on psyker

and zealot had point blank and puncture

[unreal nova]

It's funni with FGS. Puncture works on the slash if you swap to bistol as it's flying.

[regal belfry]

i use rather full auto guns as gunker

infantry auto guns or rlg

[unreal nova]

It's a, to each their own, type situation.

[calm shard]

I have been using shredder autopistol

it's a good sidearm to FGS

[regal belfry]

i dislike personally sap

[grand perch]

FGS with bleed boltpistol can do silly levels of damage

had a 2000+ level psyker using the combo melting entire havoc 40 waves on his own (pre havoc changes)

i have been wondering why i was only seeing 1 psyker use it once, that shit seems broken

[regal belfry]

they spam the wave with bp bleed then?

[calm shard]

yeah

it's very funny into high density

[unreal nova]

Inf cleave 4 stacks bleed.

With no real cost.

[fading yarrow]

Boutta draw my Vet holding hands with Sefoni ngl

[austere mica]

6 stacks

[unreal nova]

Oh. To be fair, I basically never look at that so... heh. All I know is that it's basically ludicrous.

[unreal nova]

But shouldn't it be 4 considering that's how much the puncture buff applies?

[austere mica]

No

Why would those two be related

[unreal nova]

I mean, the Bistol puncture is 4 stacks on hit.

[austere mica]

Yeah I'm still asking why you think a grenade from patch 13 and a blessing from Secrets should have the same stack count

[unreal nova]

I said nothing about that? I just said FGS+Bistol=ludicrously high damage.

Due to puncture on quite a long range inf cleave.

And having basically no cost compared to vet 'nades.

You clearly weren't reading what I typed and imagined something else.

[crude fiber]

So does the wave apply 4 or 6 stacks of bleed? I figured 4 and it seems like there was a misunderstanding here

[umbral scaffold]

What should i generally use on vet power sword? Perks and blessings,dump stat?

[unreal nova]

It should be 4.

[unreal nova]

Dump cleave targets. You always want power cycler.

[fading yarrow]

I use Slaughterer and Power Cycler with Carapace and Unyielding on my Mk VI

[hollow ibex]

you don't use slaughterer on PS

PC is mandatory. the second slot is between sunderer and BM

[calm shard]

Brutal Momentum, Power Cycler/Carapace, Unyielding(?) with cleave targets dump is current meta

[heavy rover]

power cycler with brutal momentum / sunder. I personally prefer brutal momentum. Dump stat is cleave targets

[umbral scaffold]

Why?

Oh god too many ppl

[hollow ibex]

because BM and sunderer are better

or sunder rather

[fading yarrow]

You'll be barraged with feedback and you'll LIKE IT

[crude fiber]

Even with max slaughter stacks you'll still kill less per swing then with sunder/brutal momentum. Slaughter would only possible help against groups of elite enemies

[unreal nova]

You asked, ppl help. Is normal.

[crude fiber]

I'd recommend sunder on mk3 and brutal on mk6

[regal belfry]

pw i run powercycler and sunder f to multiple crushers hordes

[umbral scaffold]

Ok so which mark is which?

[hollow ibex]

you use mk6

that's it

[umbral scaffold]

Oh

[hollow ibex]

don't touch mk 3

[umbral scaffold]

Ok

[regal belfry]

i rouch mk 3 instead

[hollow ibex]

mk3 is pathetic

[umbral scaffold]

Usually wep got horde one and single target one

[fading yarrow]

Mk 3 is the long and thin one(the cool one), Mk 6 is the short and wide one(the ugly viable one)

[regal belfry]

idk what the difference is by those two

[crude fiber]

Mk6 is better moveset.

[heavy rover]

moveset. on the mk6 you can do a block-cancel to speed up the power-up. Also if you do the push-attack, it's a direct thrust that's very useful against crushers

[hollow ibex]

and lights for horde clear is way faster

than mk3's all heavies

[regal belfry]

mk 3 has diagonal lights and horizontal heavys with a stab pushattack
while mk 6 has horizontal lights with digaonal heavys with overhead pushattack

[hollow ibex]

well the mk6 push attack is also a stab

[umbral scaffold]

Ok for perks? Carapace?

[hollow ibex]

depends on the build but the usual is maniac + elite

if you're not taking bring it down, you can take carapace + elite

[umbral scaffold]

I use vet with plasma, usually i use melee as last ditch efford

[austere mica]

So uhhh

[regal belfry]

oh i mixxed up mk3 had overhead pushattack

[austere mica]

You're supposed to do the opposite of that

[umbral scaffold]

I am still learning i am baby new,4 days

[regal belfry]

throw bolter and chainsword at you

[sharp epoch]

basically vet best build is zealot lite

[umbral scaffold]

Ima take chainsword,i like it,i like the sword better then the axe

[umbral scaffold]

U talk like i expect to know what zealot lite is

[sharp epoch]

zealot = melee focused class

[regal belfry]

gives you antax and rashad caxes learn tu dual wield

[umbral scaffold]

Yes but what is lite?

[sharp epoch]

like a worse version

[regal belfry]

uhm about the mk6 powersword it has a strikedown light by lights what do you think about it

[hollow ibex]

well i wouldn't say it's necessarily worse... so long as you use power sword or rashad

it gives vet a lot of flexibility to deal with both specials and hordes in quick succession

[regal belfry]

powersword stinks until powercycler tier 3

[umbral scaffold]

So powercycler and bm right? 👍

[regal belfry]

pw and sunder for those scab rager groups or crusher groups or mauler groups which all have carapace

[hollow ibex]

i honestly thin brumentum's better rn

but sunder's still very strong obv

can't go wrong with either

[sharp epoch]

bromentum against a wave of bulwarks and crushers your just cooked alone

[hollow ibex]

not like sunder fairs that much better. sure you can cleave through a few crushers, but that won't save you.

[regal belfry]

but it helps thin them out faster

with shouts and nades for cc

[hollow ibex]

i think you're better off using the single target combo and killing each one at a time

[tall torrent]

elite over unyielding

[hollow ibex]

rather than spamming lights and hoping sunder does the job

it will, but it takes a long time

[sharp epoch]

nah unyielding better

[tall torrent]

nah elite is better

unyielding only boosts boss dps, doesn't give new breakpoints

elite hits better breakpoints than unyielding

[sharp epoch]

but but boss damage good

[tall torrent]

not a massive increase given power sword's unique boss dps situation

[sharp epoch]

whats the unique boss dps situation

[tall torrent]

power sword has very high burst boss dps but not as good sustained boss dps

the result is that if u have very good stagger tools to chain-stagger boss, power sword is very good

but if u can't chain stagger boss, it's not as good

[sharp epoch]

just 1v1 bosso

[pseudo fiber]

Pretty much

[thorn lark]

If your ranged weapon doesn't take care of the boss what are you even doing?

[pseudo fiber]

Usually looping activate > block cancel > PA > Light

[tall torrent]

yea that's not as good as rashad

[tall torrent]

u can't afford that dmg trade in havoc, and havoc monsters live way longer than base game

[sharp epoch]

yeah yeah its not like you can solo it unsupported in a horde anyways but being good at bosskilling is still important

[pseudo fiber]

You're okay at boss killing

[tall torrent]

yea, not worth a perk dedicated to it when elite helps it in more areas

[lusty ether]

They're better than like 99.5% of people you see in game.

[sharp epoch]

oh also hjave you found a way to test havoc breakpoints yet

[tall torrent]

wdym test

it's just basic maths

[sharp epoch]

like in psykanium

[tall torrent]

u can calculate the majority of them very easily

[unreal nova]

Some ppl prefer live views/feels of it than actual maths.

[tall torrent]

find out ur base damage
find out all the dmg bonuses
punch ur calculator

ez

[tall torrent]

they can get that view by doing maths

[sharp epoch]

ugh maths

DOXXED UR TIMEZONE AND STEAM ACCOUNT

[unreal nova]

Rejected, Maff hard, hed hurts.

[tall torrent]

gonna delay guide by 3 months just for that

[fading yarrow]

I'm never getting Fleeting Memories, man

I keep completing my matches at 26 minutes

[faint beacon]

6*

you should make it 6

[tall torrent]

I already finished 1 section today

[fading wagon]

Sapper shovel dump mobility or defense?

[faint beacon]

I need to stop being a bum and finish a rough conclusion of the penance section

before spiffing it up

[tall torrent]

vet guide be like
"would u like to know about soulblaze's dmg scaling"

[tall torrent]

I may need to restructure that whole thing

see if u can pull penances' icons somewhere

and just use talents' format for them

[faint beacon]

Fair, I'll look into it

well good news is I did find better ones so I'll just restructure it here in a bit

[full nacelle]

Does charismatic effect coherency radius?

[tropic notch]

I wish we had a melee that did burn

[tall torrent]

yes

[tropic notch]

It’d be cool

[full nacelle]

thanks beb

[tall torrent]

emperor's flaming sword
as a power sword skin for veteran

[tropic notch]

Ok real

[pseudo fiber]

It would be cool

Maybe the mystical vet weapon

I still have no idea what it would be though

[hollow ibex]

vet having access to SB when??

[tropic notch]

@slow sky fgs vet gameplay?

[hollow ibex]

why is bleed so ass 😭

[austere mica]

Cause nothing we fight bleeds like it should

[hollow ibex]

nurgle protects!

[austere mica]

They're all exceptionally thick blooded

[slow sky]

Cuz it's so easy to inflict

It used to cap at 31 too and we unironically had a double bleed knife meta and it was awful

[hollow ibex]

yeah true

[tropic notch]

Bleed is a meme without uncanny

[hollow ibex]

then again

SB is super accessiblet oo

[serene bough]

i remember pre-nerf flamer

that was something

[tall torrent]

[void dragon]

Have a question for you all vet folks, to make things short: you think the class and its perk tree is well designed?

[tall torrent]

not atm

[void dragon]

Feel that frag nades are almost NEEDED on the class because there is nothing that cover horde clearing as well as that, not even in the weapons and that’s, for what I have been told, by design, which is encouraged even more by the need of ammo in the class as the “Gunner” so survivalist is even MORE important due the shared pathing for builds, overshadowing other options for being the undiscussable best for all a team, and even MORE in the fact that frag nades serve a defensive role for the class due their cc that no other option has but the veteran shout, which not only rounds up the CC capacity of the class but also gives it even more defensive stats while still enabling aggression unlike the other options that do one or the other. All that feels almost like a systematic symptom of an issue to me

[austere mica]

Dbarrel can match frag clear

Kinda

[void dragon]

kinda is the thing

[austere mica]

If the terrain is right (hallway) then its better

Except versus a mixed with bulwarks or scab ragers

Or crushers

[tall torrent]

[slow sky]

Frags aren't needed
They just overperform at their job because they scale with density
You're looking it from the perspective of "well nothing comes close to them so they must underperform" when it's "nothing comes close to them because they are better than they should be"

I shouldn't be able to completely obliterate an armor patrol with 3 grenades I'll get back in like 1-3 minutes
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1334351195195834411/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2025-01-12_12-19-09_AM.mp4?ex=67fd1d23&is=67fbcba3&hm=93138bb346352f6679ed2d3948a3a6015edcc9f72e7051dc1ecb7055fe93bfca&

[gilded wraith]

Does vet have a way to get over 16 stacks of burn?

[austere mica]

Vet doesn't have any sources of 16 stack burn

[void dragon]

is not even just eliminate, the cc they enable for a team is something no other nade has, not even smokes give that type of advantage for knockdown ALONE

[gilded wraith]

What's infernus cap at?

[austere mica]

12

[slow sky]

You're only proving my point
It's the fact that they do too much

[hollow ibex]

ok, but psyker exists

and an ogryn or zealot can trivialize that horde too

so when you say overperforming, it's just on par with the kits of the other classes lol

[slow sky]

Telling me that a house fire is fine cuz there's a bigger house fire next to it doesn't mean both houses aren't on fire

They are both problems

[hollow ibex]

we both know that the powercreep is here to stay

[gilded wraith]

And psyker takes less time before they can do it again.

[austere mica]

Shoot infinite cleave dead

Now

[void dragon]

i can prove your point because im not trying not to, im trying to tell you the other options lack defensive aspects that the frags have, is not that they do damage to caparace too effectively, the veteran class lacks cc outside of shout and frags

[hollow ibex]

so why nerf one of the the few things keeping vet in the game, as a top four class

[austere mica]

Manstopper gets to stay though

[hollow ibex]

when there are so many other broken kits on other classes rn

[tall torrent]

not even >12

[hollow ibex]

let's talking about nerfing psyker, ogryn and maybe even zealot. then we can talk about nerfing frags.

[tall torrent]

nah nerf frags to 5 stacks per nade

ez

[gilded wraith]

I hate the cap variance. Seems like a nightmare to balance around.

[faint beacon]

If we're nerfing Zealot we're also nerfing vet

[hollow ibex]

we're not nerfing anybody

let's be real

[void dragon]

imagine that krags could cc enemies half as well as frag, imagine a smoke nade that supress enemies inside of it

[hollow ibex]

i don't even know if DS will be nerfed

[void dragon]

then people would think "these other options are good"

[austere mica]

Woe unto us all, zealot gets melta which is infinite cleave with their tree fix which gives them more damage than ogryn

[atomic void]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-go-on-sarcastic-listening-gif-7666830

[slow sky]

This is the problem with darktide balancing
We can't ever have an honest balance discussion because "this other thing is stronger and should be nerfed first"
Darktide releases balance changes so spaced out and never together so it instills the mindset of THIS or THAT
Every class has things that need to be tunes up and brought down
And refusing to acknowledge that does nothing productive

[hollow ibex]

it's happening, you know it.

[hollow ibex]

yes. but why kick the class that's down lmfao.

[faint beacon]

Veteran is suffering from a "Lack of content"

its fine

it just hasn't had anything new for a bit

[void dragon]

the issue im bringing is that veteran (imo) and zealot lack build variance because their design is flawed

[slow sky]

this is the real thing

[faint beacon]

its why im playing Vet drastically less or even drastically more stupid builds

[slow sky]

Vet is incredibly strong with a decent number of their options
They have some underperformers but it's not like other classes don't have both too

[austere mica]

Vet with their 3 melee options

[hollow ibex]

3?

[faint beacon]

Im literally using Killzone CAB in a Vigil EStance build with fucking MMF Keystone of all things (I really want them to change how stacks decay)

[hollow ibex]

where's the third one?

[faint beacon]

and Im top scoring

[hollow ibex]

oh knife maybe

[faint beacon]

Knife, Rashad, PS thats like

the holy trinity

other than DS

[austere mica]

PS, DS, and Rashad

[slow sky]

Voc and iron will and confirmed kill and situational awareness and weapon specialist and desperado and repricosity and shock trooper and I could go on

[hollow ibex]

oh ngl i keep forgetting DS is a thing

[austere mica]

Good

[hollow ibex]

because i subconsciously always just ignore it

[hollow ibex]

yeah if you keep looking at talents in a vacuum, zealot doesn't need a rework either because they get all these really good talents

[void dragon]

as you should

[hollow ibex]

yeah until someone reminds me it needs to get nerfed

[void dragon]

the problem is that they have no archetypes for builds to make, the zealot is a single stagnant class

[slow sky]

And they have some of the shittiest talents in the game too
This was exactly my fucking point
Every class has overperformers and underperformers

[hollow ibex]

yes

[slow sky]

Ignoring that fact doesn't help with anything

[hollow ibex]

nobody is ignoring that

[tall torrent]

vet has fewest ways to be strong, somewhat similar to pre-rework ogryn

[atomic void]

u guys clearly agree with each other

[hollow ibex]

i was just pointing out that it's dumb to nerf one of the few ways vet is viable right now

[tall torrent]

vet currently has more ways to be strong than pre-rework ogryn

[faint beacon]

Im genuinely convinced its just a lack of content thats causing Vet to feel terrible

[tall torrent]

but not that many more ways

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/darryl-the-office-darryl-philbin-the-office-yay-yay-gif-yay-gif-25696872

[faint beacon]

besides you guys know damn well Zealot will be touched up first before they even think of doing anything with Vet

[slow sky]

It isn't
Not if the underperformers are brought up alongside the nerf

[hollow ibex]

well obv i'd be ok with that. but realistically nothing happening until 2027 at the earliest

[void dragon]

do vet needs to be nerfed? sure there are some stuffs that are lacking, but the class already seems to have a relationship with psyker on its AoE vs Single targed damage approach

so in a way, by design, it has build up a weakness

[faint beacon]

Veteran's root gimmick

was reward via precision

aka if you can actually aim, you get rewarded

[tall torrent]

vet's top performing options need nerfs/adjustments
vast majority of veteran's kit need major buffs

[void dragon]

top performing options in defense or offense? because at least the defensive ones are really powerful, but outside of them the class doesnt have anything that impactful for self preservation

[tall torrent]

not sure what ur trying to say since "top performing options" include weapons, aura, blitz, ability and keystone

[void dragon]

i was refering particularly to the frag nade (aoe CC that most enemies cant ignore), Survivalist (capacity to have ranged combat resources is a defense on its own) and shout (cc and piss toughness)

[tall torrent]

yea, all 3 can use nerfs

survivalist is prob the one that needs it the least but I wouldn't be opposed

[void dragon]

the thing is once they are balanced, will the class have any other real defensive source? otherwise those will be still the top picked options

nothing will change in the gran picture

[pseudo fiber]

Which is fine Zealot really needs a tree that isn't... that

[tall torrent]

buff vet's defence outside of VoC

it's not hard

[pseudo fiber]

They give Vet a melee weapon in June and I'll be a happy man for a year

[faint beacon]

Any weapon tbh, again

Im blaming lack of content

and I feel like Vet is more so lacking a melee than it is a gun

[void dragon]

because Veteran's melee combat options are quite limited in how they are buffed and they are mostly linked to their gunning, because gunner class and stuff

[atomic void]

nerf everyone
do good cause u played well and not because u spammed something

epic style

i watch havoc runs sometime and people just alternate piss toughness and insert broken ability here while pressing w

engaging gameplay

[pseudo fiber]

It's less that I just find melees are easier to slot into anything more than a ranged weapon

Also they're more fun to use

[void dragon]

i feel that the lack of worthy melee options is linked on how the perk tree is nowadays, i think the "melee" side of it mostly deal in crit buffs at most

i dont think there is much melee weapon support even when its an important part of the combat loop

[junior grail]

I want Vet to have:

• Powerfist
• Hunting Lance
• Meltagun
• Longlas Sniper
• Light Stubber
• Hellgun
• Multitube Grenade Launcher

[tropic notch]

Replace infiltrate with the nade launcher

[atomic zephyr]

wtf is a hunting lance

just a spear?

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent how is the combat axe in havoc with unarmored and such?

Or should I just take ps?

[tall torrent]

not as good as power sword VI rn in current iteration of havoc mainly because of red & orange

[tropic notch]

Damm I figured

[void dragon]

a spear with an explosive charge on the tip

[tall torrent]

red wants u to kill a lot of elites very quickly, which combat axe is not as good as power sword at

[atomic zephyr]

what's a neat build to go for when using an ilas? not sure which mark but either the 2b or 7

[tall torrent]

orange messes up horde breakpoints so combat axe is disproportionately affected

[tropic notch]

So revolver and ps

Yas!

[atomic zephyr]

im wondering if weapons specialist actually works ilas

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

no revolver lol

[tropic notch]

Huh

[tall torrent]

revolver is not worth in havoc

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

doesn't 1 shot things

[tropic notch]

Plasma?

[tall torrent]

I thought u played havoc?

how come u don't seem to know what's good and what isn't

[tropic notch]

I do just haven’t tried revolver

[atomic zephyr]

bolt pistol, my beloved

[tropic notch]

I mean I thought with ws it’d fair

[void dragon]

REVOLVER IS NO LONGER GOOD?! we actually are on the darkest timeline (me who just got a perfect stat one)

[tall torrent]

basically 1-tap breakpoint guns don't get 1 taps in havoc

[atomic zephyr]

i would not hold havoc as the standard

[tropic notch]

Also I’ve never played vet in havoc

Ever

[tall torrent]

plasma is good because it has super low point cost in comparison and can still 1hs shotgunner & trapper

[tropic notch]

Just psyker and zealot

So plasma and ps

[tall torrent]

damn guess the chorus merchant allegations were true after all

[tame lodge]

(that was a havoc related question, don't worry)

[atomic zephyr]

oh

i didnt read

[tropic notch]

The age old combo

[tropic notch]

I tried chours in the new havoc and stopped after 2 wipes

Sucks

Need fury

[tropic notch]

What does chorus merchant mean?

[placid portal]

Veteran with Light Stubba 👀

https://tenor.com/view/jin-roh-anime-badass-mg42-gif-9270058

[atomic zephyr]

how important is rending strikes on kant 2b ilas?

[tropic notch]

Will sell sister for chours

I’m so burnt out on havoc

I just wanna do a 40 with all the new stuff

But team finder is evil

[tall torrent]

someone that relies on a crutch (in this case, Chorus)

[gilded raft]

it's what the lfg channel is for in this discord. try it out

also, should be easier to find help with the grind up if the fat fish implements the changes they mentioned next week

[tropic notch]

When I first did havoc Yarp I did that

[tall torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-steam-steamhappy-gif-11912067498964962572

[tropic notch]

Then I started running psyker venting

Bubble was really unnecessary

I hated people saying “erm always run bubble”

[tropic notch]

Be nice to me…

Path mean as hell tonight

[tall torrent]

I am very nice

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[tropic notch]

It’s true he is

[gilded raft]

bubble used to be necessary to make shooters less annoying, now it's main use is to make burgles less annoying. a little extra damage from venting shriek is even less "necessary"

run that bubble son!

[tall torrent]

I got bottlenecked by my dad's 15 year old DELL monitor

[tropic notch]

SLOP

[tall torrent]

so much so that I'm working on steam guide instead of playing

[tropic notch]

Bubble so dookie

The only time bubble was needed was in cranial corruption

They wouldn’t stop shooting

[tropic notch]

Even with v sync?

I need to see this

Please

[tall torrent]

108ms pc latency in a local-hosted environment (psykhanium)

[tropic notch]

DAMM

[tall torrent]

if in 3 days I still decide I need a new monitor

I will get that 1440p 27" monitor from KTC

(I most likely will)

[tropic notch]

Do it

[tall torrent]

with that said

this rig is pretty cracked in terms of performance vs temps

look at top left

high graphics DT running at 40 celsius on gpu

[tropic notch]

I did see that

Uhhhh

[tall torrent]

this monitor is so bad I finished 2 sections in guide from scratch

[tropic notch]

Something that I did was turn down almost all that post processing stuff like ragdolls and such

[tall torrent]

like, I actually went and calculated every single stack's corresponding per-tick DoT damage

[faint beacon]

Monitor so abysmal dogshit his will to work on the guide kicked in again

[tropic notch]

And then turn everything is on max

[tall torrent]

because I can't play anything

[tall torrent]

pretty much

[faint beacon]

3 days

I mean thats not terrible

I had no internet for over a 1.5 years

that shit was miserable

[tropic notch]

I wanna see a vid I’ve this

[tall torrent]

I put mine to high
then decided I don't actually need half that stuff

[faint beacon]

in Highschool btw

[tropic notch]

Real

I did too

[tropic notch]

Yeah atm I have a 7800x3d and a 4080 super and I still turn that stuff off

The 9800x3d will soon be mine

[tall torrent]

motion blur - off
depth of field off
lens flare - sunlight only
bloom - off
SSR - off
scatter density - 10
max ragdoll - 6
max blood decal duration - 10

[tropic notch]

I love depth of field and bloom

[tall torrent]

game still looks good without all that

[tropic notch]

Ssr?

[tall torrent]

screen space reflections

[tropic notch]

Ohhhh

[tall torrent]

@faint beacon

I did this whole section today

[tropic notch]

I used automatic tuning in the nivida app and now I’m able to get 170+ all extreme with high on all rtx

[tall torrent]

raytracing not needed

I don't rly care abt these extra stuff

game looks good enough as is

if I rly needed to make game extra bling I'll just do DLAA override

[tropic notch]

It’s not i just wanted to see how far I could push it

[tall torrent]

DLAA is actually insane in terms of visuals

[tropic notch]

I really want dlaa

[tall torrent]

way better than whatever raytracing is supposed to do over traditional lighting

[tropic notch]

Wasn’t it in dt?

It’s in vt2

[tall torrent]

it's not officially supported in DT

[tropic notch]

Ahh

[tall torrent]

but u can override in Nvidia App

[tropic notch]

Ohhh?

[tall torrent]

force super resolution to do DLAA

[tropic notch]

Might be silly and do dat

[tall torrent]

DLAA is actually so much better looking than DLSS quality it's absurd

the only "downside" is that in turns of upscaling there is no upscaling

it's just a super crisp anti-aliasing filter that cranks image fidelity through the roof

[tropic notch]

Tbh is really like a guide explaining what some of the post processing stuff did and compare and contrast some settings

[tall torrent]

6 more sections and guide intro is done

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982229685675102228/1275433773647007846/IMG_6351.gif

[tropic notch]

The intro

[tall torrent]

yea there're 20 sections for intro

[junior grail]

A spear that can equip a single-use explosive charge to pierce armour

[hollow ibex]

as someone that doesn't follow wh40k, the lore / tech makes 0 sense to me

[atomic zephyr]

good

i also learned my lesson today to never go without demolition stockpile, especially on an exe stance build

[hollow ibex]

taking both demo nodes is usually a good idea

[faint beacon]

Well it’s either team or stockpile as a bare minimum

Stockpile is better cause of reliability

[fading yarrow]

What, the bomb-tipped lance? Those were a thing irl too lol

[hollow ibex]

yes... in the 1940s

[fading yarrow]

I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt since you don't follow the lore; setting-wise, humanity is expansive on a galactic scale while simultaneously operating on post-apocalyptic parameters of limited communication, travel and lost technology, meaning there is almost no standardization in terms of technological prowess between the million scattered worlds; so in one corner of the galaxy, you can have heavily sophisticated Imperial Guardsmen like the Cadian Regiments, and in the other corner you get worlds like Krieg that have medley of WW1, WW2, cloning and lasguns

Like how even on irl Earth, we range from first-world civilizations, to third-world civilizations, to uncontacted tribes, all in varied stages of development

[atomic zephyr]

man ilas in auric feels so good but also feels so bad lmao

very annoying watching the gunner i was plinking at disappear over and over

[hollow ibex]

lol i see

[civic imp]

very accurate

[hollow ibex]

i guess that's a pretty good in-world lore reason to justify super retro shit showing up in 40,000 AD

[fading yarrow]

[errant carbon]

Have you seen the tanks parked at some of the mission starts? Literal caricatures of inter-war tanks

[hollow ibex]

lol yeah

[grand perch]

not interwar, WW1

except with a turret

also finally done with the only time gated penance

[trim steppe]

How? It's only been 19 weeks

[fading yarrow]

Checks Penances
12/20

[trim steppe]

Or at least I've collected it every week and I only have 19

[fading yarrow]

[grand perch]

i think when they did some reset that one time i got a second crate

[errant carbon]

I thought the nearest real world design to the Leman Russ was the Char B1

[grand perch]

to be fair thats pretty close, but british ww1 mark tanks are much closer. you stick o a turret on top of this and its a leman russ pretty much

[vast magnet]

Just discovered this. Given the veteran is a standard Guardman. I just had to put this here

https://youtu.be/ctYFjwA8pf8?si=-ijA1duSpthQWSf4

[grand perch]

they even copied small details like the track tensioner spring (the little cylinder where the white paint is)

[grand perch]

colm mcguinness is worth checking out in general. saw the mad lad in ireland

[vast magnet]

Oh I know of the lad himself. What I meant of him doing a Shanty for the Imperial Guard!

[noble nexus]

hello just wanted to show this laspistol crit effect that I think looks cool

[grand perch]

i also found a cool effect when i loaded in today

[signal zinc]

The leaked 5th class
Torso servitor

[fading yarrow]

I should call her

[split grove]

does any veteran go health tough tough

for high havocs

[placid portal]

+9 Stamina

Deadshot + 30% stamina recovery on dodging ranged attacks

[sharp epoch]

I go health toughness stamina

[zenith carbon]

vet isnt really clicking for me, whats a good starter build to get a feel for what i should be doing? this is what ive got rn

[sharp epoch]

Start right side one motion and out for blood

you basically need to be able to swap weapons pretty fast

id grab the left node under survivalist too

refund the two nodes on the bottom right not very worth

and get focus target

with the stamina/toughness subnode

Also what's your loadout looking like?

[zenith carbon]

c axe cuz it already 20 from other classes

and trying pumpshotty and inf autogun cuz also 20

im not lvl30 on vet yet so im short some points

[sharp epoch]

uhh dont use the shottys pretty much theyre bad

[mortal horizon]

i feel like vet can still carry havoc pretty hard i know they arent as top tier as they used to be but felt like i crushed this one, havoc 30

sadly we lost at the very end and i had to try to solo a bon, captain and a whole horde of stuff and i went down to a mutant into fire :/

i did go down once halfway through, but was easily picked up quickly luckily, but idk how much harder to play to win these 30+ matches with randos lol

[sharp epoch]

just gotta pick good randoms

oh no just remove the close order drill and elite takedown thing

[mortal horizon]

guy going down 8 times killed twice was a liability for sure, the ogryn was solid

all nice people tho, i just keep deranking with stat cards like this bc we lose to some spam near the end or a badly placed twins

[sharp epoch]

whats the team comp though?

[zenith carbon]

is inf autogun decent?

enjoyed it for gunker

[placid portal]

IAGs rock imo

Agripinaa Gunner rise

[mortal horizon]

recon las keystone-less build.
going for max dmg on burns, brittleness node and crit stuff, and grenade stuff. Can pop ult and get the 3 dmg buffs when tossing grenades or spreading burns. Works well.
I get torn on the last point where should it go?

all 3 have merit. Kill zone can be triggered in bubbles fairly reliably and 15% base dmg is huge. But its overall the least reliable and utility.

Opening salvo is the most reliable for the gun, and will give me a lot of ammo efficiency due to crit on lasgun over the course of the rounds.

reciprocity is the highest number crit stacked, and also helps melee (which im weak at due to no weapon specialist, no attack speed node, etc. Melee is saftey tool and boss dueling, poking elites when in range.)

i like all 3, but cant decide which feels the best

Havoc 30+ intention build

[sharp epoch]

I think remove demo team, the other grenade regen is sufficient

oh havoc

[mortal horizon]

I sort of disagree, but understand the sentiment

[sharp epoch]

😭

[mortal horizon]

i think in havoc demolition team is invaluable

i spam grenades and love it lol

[zenith carbon]

what bless/perks

[sharp epoch]

Yeah it's better than the other grenade regen on havoc cause of the density and amount of elites, non havoc I wouldnt take it

[mortal horizon]

i just dont know what to do with the last point here, another option is not to pick an offenisve/crit node and pick field improvisation*

[sharp epoch]

I'd take the free 15% damage as long as you dont get hit by melee

[mortal horizon]

but i feel like this last offensive node is good/important. The crit for ammo efficiency or base ranged dmg is that extra oomph the recon las needs

ya, its one im leaning towards too

does ranged dmg apply to grenades or no?

[sharp epoch]

Here, it's a starter vet build, but it lets you be decent at ranged and gives you some survivabillity by spec'ing into frags

[mortal horizon]

i feel like i would run WS on a starter vet build

[sharp epoch]

Pretty sure it does

[mortal horizon]

bc its select and forget with good passive benefits

[sharp epoch]

Idk WS is like zealot pretty much

[mortal horizon]

best feeling overall strongest and easiest to play vet build imo

i only dont use it for the build above bc its better on recon las to min max the gun and not run it

[sharp epoch]

I don't feel like recon will do well on havoc

its just armor spam and boss spam

[lilac stump]

isn't there a build that would be ok with Autogun or braced autogun ?

[zenith carbon]

idk focus target seems cool

lvl 25 currently and there was other stuff i wanted so i hadnt reached it yet

[sharp epoch]

agripina braced was my fav gun 😔

[pseudo fiber]

No stam regen node :(

[sharp epoch]

its either that or tdr can be swapped

[sharp epoch]

I think a counterfire build would be good like old braced auto/shredder pistol

[zenith carbon]

whats the autogun build?

flak maniac my beloved?

[lilac stump]

counterfire build ? do you have an example ?

[sharp epoch]

well I mean exe stance, it used to be called counterfire

[lilac stump]

oh ok

^^

[regal smelt]

recon on havoc is good, you aren't just bound to plasma or bolter

[regal belfry]

infernus and headshot crit rate increaser

dotting is something neat

[regal smelt]

rapid fire guns that can apply the brittleness are real nice for when you have to nuke twins

[sharp epoch]

I'd make this for agripina braced auto build

[sharp epoch]

Ehhh I guess, but club ogryn does that job way better

[mortal horizon]

use onslaught for armor, and grenades with dueling sword + uncanny.
its possibly the best weapon in havoc

it has better boss dmg at better ammo efficiency than plasma

and you can build it to be SUPER ammo efficient if you want to grab all the crit stuff

2 grenades, then pulling out the dueling sword and quickly stacking uncanny, maybe throw shout in there to protect + dmg on the nodes that give dmg on ult, and those 2 grenades will killa whole wave of maulers or armored ragers

you need 3 grenades + uncanny stacks for crushers

or you can shoot with the gun to put onslaught stacks, not as good as uncanny bc its not universal (on target, not on you)

but works too

this was havoc 30, not 35-40 mind you but still

with recon las build

its a recon + grenade build

[sharp epoch]

Maybe I'll try it, I see the grenadier people running bolt pistol

I just use power sword with plasma but it ends up playing like melee vet with a big clip revolver

[mortal horizon]

bolt pistol is good too, and helps them aoe more

but its a bit gimmicky and not needed, imo

and bolt pistol is not nearly as good of an overall carry ranged weapon

[sharp epoch]

I tested the breakpoints on bolt pistol though and it sucks even on non havoc

[mortal horizon]

thing about recon is you can shoot things to half health and move on (gunners, specials etc) and the dot finishes them

you can spam it into hordes of armor + throw a few grenades

and burn + brittle it all

and you have the dueling sword in a pinch

just dont forget about the DS stack uncanny as the grenades tick/explode trick

its important to getting the most out of them and crushing those armor waves

[sharp epoch]

I wonder if they'll remove that interaction

[mortal horizon]

hope not

it may be a bit strong but i find it fun and takes mindfullness to pull off

its not hard per say

but it takes understanding your build and actively doing it

i find it fun but

i could see it being op

i also enjoy throwing knives on zealot getting weapon blessings. Its not great in havoc but using uncanny throwing knives, or throwing knives with manstopper = infinite cleave throwing knives which is very cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLdNSUS3XDU

[sharp epoch]

It's one of the stronger things, but vet only has 3 shredders unless you spend a lot of talent points

[mortal horizon]

3 is plenty and you get them back so often, at least in havoc

you can just spam them

often on big waves ill throw 3 and reliably get 1-2 back instantly from the kills

[regal belfry]

does brutal momentum work on those knifes?

[mortal horizon]

when you get those massive havoc waves

[mortal horizon]

think so i havent tried that one, but manstopper on crit knife is the big one you can see in the video

its not just decreased hitmass or w/e like brutal momentum is, its infinite cleave

you can see me dmg like 50 maulers

or 50 ragers

with a knife

[sharp epoch]

How do you guarantee the throwing knife crit btw?

[mortal horizon]

i think brutal momentum wouldn't be as extreme as manstopper

[mortal horizon]

you can use chastise ult, natural high crit on zealot.
but easiiest way is if you're using the shotgun trick with manstopper, shotgun also has scattershot on it

scattershot stacks and holds until you shoot again

so you can hold 100% crit, as long as shotgun is out, and as long as you dont shoot

[sharp epoch]

ohh

[mortal horizon]

thats why at times i stack it on the zombies

[sharp epoch]

throwing knife build here i come

[mortal horizon]

im also showing the shotgun cleavbe itself on the horde but

i get that scattershot 5 stacks

now i have auto crit knives until i shoot again

[mortal horizon]

its not really havoc viable

but it is fun in damnation/auric

and malestrom

once in a while you get a big wave of ragers or shotgunners

and you pull out the shotgun and toss 2 throwing knives

and kill all of them running in their congo lines

its great fun lol

its also cool when like, a sniper is behind a horde

throwing knife right through the horde

or trapper

w/e

infinite cleave so as long as you dont hit carapace or a shield or a boss (might even go through a boss? unsure)

itll hit

[sharp epoch]

zealot plasma gun

[mortal horizon]

plasma knives

lol

[fading yarrow]

Speaking of plasma; is this true?

Does the 71/69 balance not matter anymore?

[mortal horizon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjexdIIx1ps

i use the build here

at 1:11 i kill a sniper using the cleave knives

not a super impressive clip but thought it shows the build ok

[grand perch]

no, reddit moment

[mortal horizon]

ya, reddit moment. its not about the charge rate.
its about the thermal resistance. 69 gives 8 shots before overheat.
So you want that, but dont need more. Charge rate is dump stat but might as well put the rest in charge rate, slightly faster fire rate. Ends up at 71%. So you still want 69 thermal 71 charge. this is mine for example

[sharp epoch]

its cool imma try it to tomorrow probably and the recon one

[placid portal]

noice a killstreak mod?

[mortal horizon]

ya both fun builds

[pseudo fiber]

This thread pissed me the fuck off

[sharp epoch]

charge rate affecting damage was funny

[mortal horizon]

ya, tbh i shouldn't use it. It adds nothing to my gameplay and probably slightly makes me a worse player bc monkee brain.
but monkee brain......
so fun seeing number go up. I'm addicted to throwing a grenade and getting that little dopamine hit "just killed 27 dues with that nade", and seeing them trickle in from dots knowing those dots are working.
or knowing how many dudes im killing per swing on ogryn in the middle of an army of zombies. lol its just fun feedback

[fading yarrow]

Gotcha and ty, just making sure my current Plasma wasn't a waste of dockets

[sharp epoch]

i wouldnt waste dockets on the 71 charge rate 69 thermal thing

I saw someone spend 8 mil 😬

[mortal horizon]

i spent about 1.2mil for it

[regal belfry]

i think i have a 72/68 for which i didn't spend much

[placid portal]

Me when making new weapon: 200,000 dockets. take it or leave it

[sharp epoch]

doesnt it need 69 thermal to do the 8 shots?

[regal belfry]

idk

[loud belfry]

I spent like 600k or some low amount but then its stats drifted when empowered

[regal belfry]

could test it like in 6h

[grand perch]

it can be 68.something, the decimal is key

[regal belfry]

seriously

i hate nonvisible decimals

[placid portal]

Oh boy, decimal values that affect a threshold but game doesnt show it

[sharp epoch]

I've never had mt weapons stats change wat

[pseudo fiber]

I'm 3 mil deep now nothing

[loud belfry]

presumably by now they've fixed it. but it happened for realsies

[sharp epoch]

yeesh

[loud belfry]

went from 69/71 to 71/69

[regal belfry]

has an other weapon such a weird breakpoint

[sharp epoch]

oh thats mine I'm not gonna bother with a perf plasma

[sharp epoch]

the ogryn rippers people just discovered at 66% ammo is triggers blazeaway every bullet

[loud belfry]

I'm not sure but I assume 71/69 is okay since it at least should be able to shoot the fabled 8 times

[sharp epoch]

yes it does

[mortal horizon]

ya, i use it in havoc sometimes depending on mods/team with the steady grip node that gives you back toughness for bracing. Can sit there and get a ton of toughness back between the two and not die to gunners when you're pressured/caught out

which is nice

[grand perch]

this pleases the @tired egret

[mortal horizon]

sometimes in havoc having that utility to avoid going down when suddenly caught out by like a few gunners, and havinjg the chance to sustain your toughness and shoot back is the difference between wiping and not

especially as ogryn, going down can put a lot of pressure on team and being caught by gunners with no horde to sustain on is like one of the main ways i die lol

i ALWAYS take it if pox gas especially