veteran-class

[faint beacon]

If I’m doing anti shooter/gunner

[narrow frost]

becuase purple sucks

[faint beacon]

For the team

[narrow frost]

you would need 3 bodyguard ogryns

but yes

possible

3 amazing ogyn bodyguard players

[faint beacon]

I was thinking of just

And I know it’s scummy but idgaf it’s havoc it’s going to be chaotic

Abusing knife

But I’m thinking of trying that crack pipe MMF build I sent you a bit ago

Tunnel Vision Camo with CAB and O4B

[narrow frost]

a little problem with it would be armor

constant crushers and bulwarks

and boss dps...

[faint beacon]

Uncanny Lac probably

[narrow frost]

and another thing. orange makes the enemies bigger

so it would be harder to shoot over them

[faint beacon]

It makes them bigger

[narrow frost]

yes

[faint beacon]

Excuse me

[narrow frost]

models grow in size depending on how many stacks of orange they have

[faint beacon]

I’ll figure a way to work around it but I feel like it’s totally possible seeing

My BIGGEST issue with havoc

[narrow frost]

I've seen bulwarks taller than my ogryn

[faint beacon]

Was Fading Light shooter spam

[merry gale]

same and i have max size ogryn

[faint beacon]

Literally my biggest issue and why I usually did VOC

[narrow frost]

ranged is alot less of an issue

for just about every map in rotation bubble isnt worth it

[faint beacon]

Not anymore?

Holy peak

[narrow frost]

only time ranged was really an issue for me is Dark Communion beginning

[tall torrent]

Now it’s deranking

[narrow frost]

but after the med station its alot easier

cover in Dark Communion beginning is terrible

no hiding spots

and too many triggers

[faint beacon]

Means I might be able to actually just fucking enjoy

Playing builds

[narrow frost]

yes

[tall torrent]

No

[narrow frost]

well.....

higher havoc no

[tall torrent]

Power sword 24/7 is veteran’s fate

[narrow frost]

you cant mess around

29 and lower you probably could with a good duo

[faint beacon]

You will suffer the wrath of garden proccing cause my ass is still using knife

[tall torrent]

Garden is not as bad

As u think

[faint beacon]

I doubt it’s terrible

It just seems like a mild nuisance

Besides I was thinking gameplan

Just shoot em

[tall torrent]

Because every purple enemy is targeted by everyone at the same time

And purples can’t be healed by other purples or themselves

[merry gale]

i haven't noticed that modifier having any impact at all

[faint beacon]

Damn

Okay that’s good to know

[narrow frost]

Purple is really only bad with red and rituals

[merry gale]

the orange hordes are way more annoying

[serene bough]

i like the new modifiers

[narrow frost]

and with bad teammates (psykers)

current bug with purple and rituals

[serene bough]

much better than the old garbage like pus hardened

[narrow frost]

I miss moebians.....

[serene bough]

worst one is the orange buff

[narrow frost]

my dense hordes....

[merry gale]

i wish we could just get all the modifiers

and also get them on the auric board

[tall torrent]

Best new modifier is red (toll)

[narrow frost]

ruins psykers day

[tall torrent]

Easily most peak modifier they’ve added to this game in a long time

[narrow frost]

I need to see that more

[gilded raft]

Orange horses are basically moebians

In terms of a horde dps check anyway

[narrow frost]

orange doesnt change horde density

unlike moebian

[tall torrent]

Red should be a base game mechanic that applies to all modes

[narrow frost]

or hp values

[tall torrent]

Just reduce it to like 30% health as activation window

But make it baseline mechanic for all modes

[serene bough]

i feel red is pretty forgettable if you're killing things effectively

[merry gale]

just add all modifiers to the auric pool

[bleak cradle]

For VB I don’t find red bad. But I can definitely see how it is overall a nerf to psykers concerning playstyle/skill

[serene bough]

you really feel it when purple keeps red alive though

[tall torrent]

Red can be countered by BM and heavy stagger

Which u have to specifically build for

[gilded raft]

Yeah, but the extra dr has similar effects on horde ttk as flak armor and density did for 21st

[trail raptor]

Is shovel + plasmagun decent build? I have games latern link if neeeded. Just hit level 30 so haven't really attempted auric or havoc much. New to game (5 days or so)

[serene bough]

admittedly i've only gone upto H35 so far

[narrow frost]

before anyone tells you otherwise, outside of high havoc. Every build/weapon is viable. its also a video game, so do whatever is fun

but that is a good combo

[serene bough]

or just killing them before the buff is meaningful

[kind scarab]

Anything is decent if you play it well enough, but breakpoints will be what really makes a difference to the higher tier players.

[tall torrent]

Yea, via stagger

If they’re not staggered by 2nd hit it’s gonna go bad very quickly

[kind scarab]

TLDR: Play whatever until you're comfortable with the game, use the nodes on the tree to cover whatever is causing you the biggest issues until you've gotten your basics drilled into head.

[serene bough]

i suppose

[kind scarab]

Aka; Movement, placement, dodging and combat timing.

[serene bough]

but the meta around havoc is already built on CC and DoTs

[trail raptor]

Thanks Ainz/Doc! I will stick with it for now to help build up some resources so I can swap builds if I see one that inspires me. Still working on basics for sure

[serene bough]

so i dont really notice red much since there's usually a lot of stagger built into people's kits

[tall torrent]

DOT is not as good into red

[faint beacon]

DOTs are actually detrimental now with certain modifiers

[narrow frost]

you can link a gamelantern build of what you are running for someone to critique

[tall torrent]

Esp with purple also in play

[faint beacon]

Purple and Red iirc

[tall torrent]

Yea

[merry gale]

the meta is 1 shot

1 tapz

[gilded raft]

Don't forget about loadouts. You get 5 without mods, so try different things and keep the ones that work for you

[faint beacon]

Cause you’re giving the enemy their buffs without killing them

That’s the issue

Obviously you can work around it

Just know it’s detrimental

[trail raptor]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9e8d9657-9372-4456-96b0-b22d622ac363/shovel-plasmagun?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[merry gale]

a measly 5

when will fs add more

[serene bough]

i mean yeah focus purple and don't proc a lot of red

[merry gale]

seriously

[tall torrent]

5 is more than enough

[merry gale]

no

i need more loadouts

add more loadout slots fs

[serene bough]

but killing purple is simple enough and everyone brings a level of CC in my experience

[merry gale]

NOW

[tall torrent]

I use like 3 at most

[gilded raft]

The ui needs a massive overhaul with at least a dozen different mods needing to be part of the core game

[narrow frost]

@tall torrent look at this real quick for plasma, I forgot if it needs anything for BPs

[raw needle]

i have at least 10 on ZEALOT out of all the classes

[narrow frost]

they got both ranged dps nodes

[raw needle]

5 is not enough in the slightest

[merry gale]

if i could i'd have like 15 per characters

[raw needle]

you can

[merry gale]

i know

[raw needle]

you can edit the mod file

[merry gale]

but i don't mod

[raw needle]

https://tenor.com/view/chii-kawa-chiikawa-chiikawa-beat-beating-ow-gif-16647359826059400487

[serene bough]

i wanna reach H40 again before I develop a full opinion but right now i find red pretty unimpressive

[merry gale]

i am at war with the mod scrubs

[narrow frost]

Do you know what Toughness regen speed actually does?

[raw needle]

make a 2nd steam acc

buy darktide

[gilded raft]

You should. You can make the UX borderline tolerable with enough mods

[tall torrent]

Swap GBITF to catch a breath
U don’t need rending strikes for plasma

This won’t have baseline flamer 1hs but at rising heat 1 stack u can 1hs flamer at all ranges (or baseline crit 1hs)

[raw needle]

5 more build slots

[serene bough]

i really do like the DH modifier though

[narrow frost]

Thank you

[trail raptor]

I haven't a clue lol

but I figured toughness = good

[tall torrent]

It’s a cool gimmick

[gilded raft]

Yeah, catch a breath is my new defacto pick since the buff.

[narrow frost]

so it effect the toughess regen you get when you are with teammates, only when not in combat

so it barely does anything

[faint beacon]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/jZPYo4KWhw6ooXT_p?invite=cr-MSxmYlMsMTA3NDAxNTcz

@narrow frost was testing the build out and idk how to explain the feeling of knowing the Agri is managing to 2 burst reapers

Killzone value

[raw needle]

curio rework coming in 2028

[tall torrent]

Killzone’s 8s CD is still meh

I think those 2 talents need more buffs

A lot more

[trail raptor]

Any suggestion for what to take instead?

[narrow frost]

one sec

[faint beacon]

I wouldn’t mind a buff but it’s genuinely pretty good

I tend to have it up frequently

[tall torrent]

For veteran
Extra toughness
Gunner resist
Ability cooldown
Sprint efficiency
Extra dockets

[raw needle]

sprint efficiency? not stam recovery?

[tall torrent]

For veteran, yea

[faint beacon]

Cause of the delay

[raw needle]

interestiung

[faint beacon]

Vet has increased regen delay

Vs everyone else

[tall torrent]

No, same as ogryn

Ogryn also benefits from sprint efficiency

[tall torrent]

Maybe to a lesser degree

[faint beacon]

Honestly never noticed with Ogryn

Probably because of the bigger stam pool

[tall torrent]

Because ur attacks are slower

[narrow frost]

try using 3 of thse, but for the 3rd gunner res, but a different res since they dont add up to 60%, only like ~54%

[trail raptor]

Swapped GBITF to catch a breath, what should I take instead of the rending strikes?

[tall torrent]

CQKZ is always a good choice

[narrow frost]

stam node

[tall torrent]

This is also good

[narrow frost]

but thats me

[tall torrent]

Stamina node is good but not required

Depends on ur melee weapon

Knife - yes

[narrow frost]

they are using these

[tall torrent]

Tac axe - maybe

Rest - prob not

[tall torrent]

That shovel is

[narrow frost]

I know

[tall torrent]

Plasma perks also wrong

[narrow frost]

I was helping with the curio and talents 1st

then I will explain weapons

@trail raptor got your curios and talents figured out?

[trail raptor]

Talents yes, went with CQKZ. Still sorting curios. Swapping sniper res to gunner res, and toughness regen for ability cooldown. I should swap the max hp for other things from Vetern steam guide WIP's list?

[tall torrent]

Health curio is good

Normal split usually is like
1 health
1 toughness
health / toughness / stamina

[narrow frost]

gunner res, hp, then pick from the list probably good. Since you are using 3 toughness curio, having more hp makes it so you dont get 2 shot by bursters

and other things

[trail raptor]

Will work on a health curio but think I've got them sorted for now. So no 5% toughness on them since they are all toughness already? Sorry for silly questions

[narrow frost]

You are fine asking all these questions

that is what this chat is for

better to explain things

then leave people by themselves since fatshark doesnt teach anything

[tall torrent]

If you run 3x toughness, u should get more health for curio perks

Although this won’t matter for health breakpoints

It’ll make u feel better

[narrow frost]

plasma dump if they dont want to mix max 71 charge and 69 thermal?

isnt it 60 charge?

[tall torrent]

The only health related defence breakpoint is 201+ health

Which is pretty hard to reach for veteran without dropping some toughness

[narrow frost]

Plasma has alot of blessing combos, try these out

the stats are min maxed, the plasma stats are hard to get

Imma go do solos, just @ path or me if you still need someone bee

[unreal nova]

72 68 also works.

Just a little risky if you don't quick vent.

Since the last shot will put it at 100%.

[narrow frost]

also

only left click plasma

[unreal nova]

Yes.

[narrow frost]

for dps and ammo reasons, its better

[unreal nova]

8 shots.

[trail raptor]

Appreciate it! I just keep buying white ones from the store until I get the stats you listed?

[unreal nova]

I tested it in Sedation to be sure and such. Dunno why i even tried rolling for one tbh.

[narrow frost]

yup

it did take me 3mil dockets

[tall torrent]

It’s very costly

[narrow frost]

so if you dont have/want to do that

[tall torrent]

So if u don’t have millions of dockets to burn

Get one with 60 thermal

[unreal nova]

Not even 1 21% HP curio is enough.

[trail raptor]

I have 300k lol so I will aim for 60 thermal

[unreal nova]

I think I got it in less. About 500k~

[grand perch]

@tired egret gonna be sad

[unreal nova]

To be fair, I uhhh, always get things I have no interest in easily.

Anything I want... 2mil on a mobility dump yes.

[trail raptor]

Thanks everyone! I have a new goal to work towards, and I'll experiment with the blessings on plasma. Shovel seems straight forward. Last question would be playstyle, but maybe I can find a vid for that

[unreal nova]

Just roll anyway, you might get lucky. 72 68 will work as well.

[unreal nova]

Why though?

[narrow frost]

Playstyle is whatever you want it do be, but overall with plasma elites and specials shouldnt exist if you have line of sight of them

pew pew bonk horde

shrimple as

[unreal nova]

Shovel is either bonk bonk bonk or bonk bonk what is this oyster(Crusher) infront of me? Cracking it open then back to bonk bonk bonk.

[ocean idol]

literally like nursing toddlers

[trail raptor]

Cracking it open?

[trail raptor]

Awesome thanks!

[unreal nova]

Mk3 can 1 shot damnation crushers if you wanna meme with it.

You trade stagger button for a strong armor damage button.

[trail raptor]

ah ok ty. Maniac + elite decent for plasma? Not really sure the difference from doing flak + unarmoured instead

[sharp epoch]

flak always take

maniac or unarmored would be secondary perks

[narrow frost]

from the solo

[unreal nova]

Flak+Maniac.

You wanna be always deleting piles of specials/elites with it.

[trail raptor]

Sweet! sounds good. Just got a 60 defence shovel in like 10 tries which is nice

[slim copper]

Why does your scoreboard only have a score for rat merchant if your ogryn's name is lord Ainz? Is one your character name and the other your steam profile name?

[narrow frost]

I have steam name only in game

scoreboard takes character name

[slim copper]

Ahh that makes sense, thanks

Thought your ogryn had multiple personalities for a moment

[narrow frost]

I hate when Prine takes over half my screen

can she stop?>

I dont want lore

[unreal nova]

Why is the text so big?

[wanton dawn]

I think you got a rager on your screen

He is afraid of consora me think

[unreal nova]

To be fair, if you were a heretic and you see Ainz or Hamdol, wouldn't you flee asap?

[wanton dawn]

You would

[tall torrent]

Unarmored
Flak

For plasma

[faint beacon]

Mk3 punch only run when

[narrow frost]

very temping

maybe duo it with cole

[tame lodge]

It's actually real

Shovels also get Opportunist
So you either go Skullcrusher Opportunity
Or
Brutal Skullcrusher

[grand perch]

imma come out and say it, heinous rituals is a stupid karking modifier

you rush one ritual, another ritual spawns before you reach the first one

2 players dont even get to see the healthbar

because theres 2 bosses spawning right before we reach the first ritual

who thought of this shit

[bleak cradle]

It’s very very buggy

[gleaming flare]

I think there's a setting to turn the text size down.

[narrow frost]

there is

[visual kestrel]

i still cant read it, too small on text

[unreal nova]

Try two triggering at the same time and you need to get through a massive mixed mess to get to the second one or just give up and deal with a DH.

[serene bough]

i will say the ritual should have its own progression bar for easier tracking

the worst one is on dark communion, had a host ritual spawn outside of the event room right after passing through the brewery basement

[lean rune]

What’s the dump stat on the plasma gun?

[serene bough]

needless to say, we couldnt reach the host in time and lost because the door wasnt burst open yet

[narrow frost]

71-72 charge 69-68 thermal

[tame lodge]

@tired egret

[lean rune]

I’m guessing the dump stat on the dueling sword would be mobility?

[narrow frost]

mob or cleave

[trail raptor]

rip just spent 300k and best I got was 72 thermal, 68 charge haha

[narrow frost]

yeah, it'll take a bit

[trail raptor]

best way to make money is just doing highest missions I can eh?

[hollow ibex]

Highest missions that you reliably win

[umbral scaffold]

ok vet knive + heavy bolter is my favorite now only I have heavy finger....

but had a fun havoc 20 run

[barren nimbus]

does anyone know what bottom padding is on ovens scoreboard

trying to make this shit readable

[torpid grotto]

Can someone please enlighten me why plasma min max isn’t 60 charge rate

[native robin]

Thermal resistance sweet spot where you don't get any more shots until overheat if you go higher and charge rate sweet spot where you don't get faster firing if you go higher.

[hollow ibex]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/496

Neat

Full auto for helbore

[rose reef]

sefoni has tzeentch symbols in her mind

should... should we be alarmed

[hybrid plover]

Someone finally did it

I'm sorry but that's like the one primary reason I just could not vibe as much as I'd like to with the helbore. Just felt like crap to shoot with the charge up.

[hollow ibex]

Now just need someone to update keep swinging 😭

[wind grotto]

did it break? it was working last time I played two days ago

[hollow ibex]

It works but it's kinda buggy

Breaks if you get downed

You have to weapon swap for it to work again

[limber pawn]

🔱 \\ Call to Arms // 🔱

I need all the finest servants of the God Emperor to overcome this penance so that we all can repent. There are heretics that needs to be purged! In the name of Emperor!

Penance: God Emperor demands no one in the crew to not go down during the period of Auric Maelstorm mission.

Pretty please..

[faint beacon]

Atoman Elite Guard:

[unreal nova]

Ask in LFG, I guess.

[limber pawn]

I can try that too

[unreal nova]

Cos lag will make it easier to go down.

[frank basin]

magnet grenade

[fluid garden]

A couple Chinese guys duo'd a havoc 40 with a Vet and Ogryn. Only had like 10 views so I wanted to share!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDCG9M8rkk

[craggy goblet]

dumdum and ghost or infernus?

las pistol

[unreal nova]

Try both, see which you like.

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/laimu-limealicious-vtuber-i-saw-what-you-deleted-gif-17588798989859688898

[hollow ibex]

i'm not a huge fan of infernus on laspis personally

but it'll work, and some people like it

[junior grail]

Holy crap this could be worldchanging.

Full auto mod just fires at max charge, this could give the proper helbore experience with Surgical!

[hollow ibex]

yeah i'm gonna give helbore another go because of this mod lol

[plush grail]

Has anyone done "On Overwatch" before?

[slow spade]

yeah

[unreal nova]

Yeah. Just either get gud with VoC gold toughness spam or ask/beg 1-3 others to carry you through a mission while you sit in rescue.

[slow spade]

its not that hard especially now with all the Ogryn friends whacking everything

[plush grail]

I got close one time but my ability was still recharging.

[unreal nova]

Gotta dodge alot as well inbetween gold toughness. try DS4 with Agile or knoife.

[plush grail]

Do you also have to stay with your teammates at all times?

[mellow cobalt]

on overwatch is the dumbest fucking penance ever

it practically requires you to play like a selfish asshole in order to make literally any sense

[unreal nova]

Nope, you just cannot get hit in melee. Well, take melee HP damage.

Gold toughness is good cos it's a buffer.

[mellow cobalt]

and also, it can get canceled out for taking melee damage when you're downed!

[unreal nova]

If it's down, you have a 1 melee hit leeway.

But get hit once more before your toughness is 100%, you fail.

Dogs and muties ALWAYS fails it.

[mellow cobalt]

there is practically nothing in this game where I'm like "that's genuinely awful" but this is one of them

like, I fucking hate it

above malice? no fucking chance you're going to get it at all

[unreal nova]

Same for the bosses.

[mellow cobalt]

unless by pure coincidence and complete chance

[wind grotto]

I just ignored that it existed and got it on auric at some point

but that one, and the zealot stealth penances are the ones I think are really really bad and make people play in ways they shouldn't

[mellow cobalt]

and if you TRY to get it the entire team will hate you because all you're doing is blocking

[broken spade]

eventually you'll just get it if you play voice of command a lot

[mellow cobalt]

YEAH

[wind grotto]

encouraging people to get backstabs on ranged enemies out of coherence range sure isa really really bad idea to put in the heads of the random player

[unreal nova]

Honestly better off asking like 3 people to rush malice with you in rescue.

[unreal nova]

It is... Backstab in stealth, yeah.

[mellow cobalt]

its really hard to play with zealots sometimes because they do this. vets have tons of different toughness bonuses that are made much weaker bc zealots run off. and it's NOT their fault, mind you, those penances are just terrible

[unreal nova]

Loner is just... I hate it so much.

I hate my teammates for following me when I need to get it done.

[broken spade]

loner isn't even really good for the playstyle it's meant for. Being coherency regen really sucks

loner should just be deleted and replaced

[unreal nova]

But then I realise they are just following the most competent player...

[wind grotto]

yeah it's a really bad aura

[mellow cobalt]

but as a vet who doesn't always play voc sometimes I need to because you're the only one still alive and I can't regen toughness quickly any other way

[unreal nova]

And then i hate myself since my build can't actually help them survive and I want my book back again.

[plush grail]

So, Voice of Command, Gold Toughness, and an Alige or Knife.

[unreal nova]

Also, maybe recon to shoot things before they get close for the most part.

[mellow cobalt]

zealot just needs a rework bc rn bc it's really hard as a vet to support them. you can't help them kill anything cause that starves them of toughness, you can't follow them bc they run too fast, and they're encouraged and are able to run away from the rest of the team without dying but ime vet absolutely positively needs their team close to survive

[unreal nova]

That's basically the thing about it. Backstab from stealth is one thing, you can literally do it 1-2 secs before stab if you take extra time on it.

[mellow cobalt]

im not blaming zealots and I've rarely ever met actually dickish zealots, it's just the way the class is designed. it feels like they deliberately went against the team building aspect with some zealot paths

[unreal nova]

Loner just... ruins the point of playing a co-op game where you should be sticking close to each other to a degree.

[mellow cobalt]

i've also played zealot tbf

[narrow frost]

Do you want to do it normally or cheese?

[mellow cobalt]

but also as an exec vet, when a zealot is attacking a horde and there's no enemies around them and killing the horde would just starve them of toughness, what. what am I supposed to do

just sit there awkwardly?

/genuine

[austere mica]

Also attack in melee

[unreal nova]

At that point, just kill them.

[austere mica]

Its not like you only have a gun

[mellow cobalt]

yes, but that also starves them of toughness

[unreal nova]

There's no point in risking someone getting hit.

[mellow cobalt]

i am killing their food

[plush grail]

Well I don't want to be an asshole to my teammates. And I tried many times to do it legit.

[austere mica]

Yeah but if its literally just a trash horde and they are dying they have bigger problems

[mellow cobalt]

eh fair

[narrow frost]

just need your fatshark code

social menu then press E

[unreal nova]

Ainz is offering to speedrun carry you btw.

[austere mica]

Like the toughness food point is valid

But not if they're in no real danger and at 100

[mellow cobalt]

i mean i try to melee when the zealots are meleeing and there's nothing else to do but idk, i don't know what I'm supposed to do

[craggy goblet]

ainz goat

[plush grail]

Let me get on right quick.

[unreal nova]

As a Zealot, I either don't care or don't care. Fury is a thing and book is book.

[mellow cobalt]

it feels like zeal and vet conflict with each other and it makes it a little less fun to play as zel and as vet tbh

[unreal nova]

And mind you, I mostly play vet.

[mellow cobalt]

not that ive never had fun with zealots, it's just harder to make it work

[unreal nova]

Zealots that complain about toughness is like... seriously?

If there's nothing big, it's time to clear the leftover hordes.

[sharp epoch]

Save your ammo, just melee, when theres actual targets to kill use gun

[mellow cobalt]

....yeah. i. i do that.

[sharp epoch]

Actual targets being elites or specials

[narrow frost]

I can't read

[plush grail]

Xbox actually
1797686600

[sharp epoch]

thats what your supposed to do

[mellow cobalt]

sorry that came out rude but I meant it as an actual question :/

[mellow cobalt]

bweh

[craggy goblet]

what’s the prob with melee vet ( im new and just got done lvling zealot, im just playing vet as a zealot that can use a gun more often)

[unreal nova]

Just throw a frag and have them die faster since crits.

[mellow cobalt]

zealots need a rework

[mellow cobalt]

i also do that

but I dont always have frags

even if I usually do

[unreal nova]

Just swing your sword or so.

I'm not kidding. Most Zealots don't care if you kill things.

[sharp epoch]

I don't get what the problem is, zealots are fine regening their toughness

[unreal nova]

Especially things behind them since it's a horde.

The ones that do are the types with main character syndrome.

[mellow cobalt]

i've heard tons of complaints from zealots about how shooting the chaff theyre eating is a dick move n stuff

[unreal nova]

They'll complain about any and everything that doesn't put them in the centerlight.

[unreal nova]

Cos you are wasting ammo.

[mellow cobalt]

yeah and depriving them of food, ik

[sharp epoch]

Normally you're not supposed to shoot chaff unless youre playing ogryn

[mellow cobalt]

i don't do that anymore

[sharp epoch]

Just go into melee too and wait for elites/specials to pop up and switch to kill them

[mellow cobalt]

ok im realising this isn't actually a problem for me

[unreal nova]

The problem are egotistical players who demand centerstage.

Just go stab things.

Or bonk.

Or something.

Smack?

[mellow cobalt]

but also the fact that zealots are encouraged to run away from the group and vets are encouraged to stay with the group is just

it sucks

[unreal nova]

Just melee the horde.

Is for a stupid penance.

I literally will get it done over months if it takes that long.

Like weapon specialist.

[sharp epoch]

Really only loner builds encourage that, chastise and book are both relatively team builds

[plush grail]

I personally think "On Overwatch" should be a "Complete the mission without taking XXXX damage" penance.

[unreal nova]

Chastise is frontline semitank.

Book is support.

Neither requires them to go off.

Stealth depends.

It's just loner being the worst thing ever.

[unreal nova]

Honestly, it's more something to get when you have gotten good. or just cheese since that still works.

[unreal nova]

Trust me when I say this, the avg Zealot doesn't care if you 'nade into the horde near them. Some even want you to because if things die faster, less risks means less damage taken.

More so if they are NOT martyrdom.

[teal marten]

How are zealots encouraged to run away

[unreal nova]

Look at the loner aura and penance.

[teal marten]

Oh

That's just one node and one penance

[plush grail]

@narrow frost Thank you.

[teal marten]

I have a zealot with more health than an ogyrn meant to be a tank

[unreal nova]

Did he do twins or so? Though IDK how you can fall off that map.

[plush grail]

He had lag out of the map.

On I think where you have to get a scroll.

[unreal nova]

Oh. Archivum Sycorax?

[plush grail]

Yes, that one.

[unreal nova]

Ah, the Speed run map.

[plush grail]

And I must say, I thought he was "Speedy Gonzalez".

But still, I can't thank him enough.

I shall name my weapons in his holy name.

[wind grotto]

are the disconnects worse for anyone tonight than they were before this hotfix

[mortal horizon]

for high havocs, you guys still mostly using DS4?

does powersword do ok or the bad mobility holds it back too much?

[unreal nova]

2014 in Mourningstar? XD

[sharp epoch]

ps sword but you're going down pr much if youre alone

[mortal horizon]

thats my issue i like clutch builds, i need to be able to solo a chaos spawn easily, etc

[craggy goblet]

b-b-but POWER SWORD

[frank basin]

im going taxe if i can't dodge horde melee

with ps

mobility dodge distance suck

feel janky slow last time used

[vernal trench]

Na

Not if u got shout

[junior grail]

How's Heavy Sword on Vet?

[dry cloak]

good

but its dependent on your grenade and ranged choice

that being if those 2 can do carapace

everything else heavy sword does good

[sharp epoch]

pretty bad

[hollow ibex]

wat

it's no rasahad or PS, but it's still a good weapon

esp since you can run it without any melee talents

[sharp epoch]

none of vets ranged weapons deal with carapace well except bolter and not even that well its a waste of ammo

[narrow frost]

Plasma

[hollow ibex]

even revolver

and you can run krak too

[sharp epoch]

plasmas not that good for carapace either

[narrow frost]

Revolvers

[hollow ibex]

helbore

bistol is workable

[narrow frost]

And if you bring the onslaught

Vraks

Recon

[hollow ibex]

vigilants can also deal with crushers

[narrow frost]

True

What else

Hmmmm

[hollow ibex]

agri slug lol

[narrow frost]

Maybe?

I use the gun but haven't tried it on cara

[hollow ibex]

it's like 2 shots with slugs (will need buffs)

[narrow frost]

Of course

[hollow ibex]

so yeah hsword's pretty good if you have a ranged focused build, and have something to deal with carapace

solid horde clear

no investment needed

[dry cloak]

Revolver can one shot cruahers with proper build

[narrow frost]

Yup

[hollow ibex]

lol yeah revolver ES is pretty funny

though not super practical... for a variety of reasons

[sharp epoch]

ehh building a funny build that does a specific thing doesnt work in real games

[narrow frost]

The cowboy revolver with stance

[narrow frost]

Any build works

Outside of high havoc

Every weapons is viable

[sharp epoch]

if you're good enough yeah

[narrow frost]

Of course

[hollow ibex]

it mostly just comes down to how annoying you want the game to be

[narrow frost]

That's true for everything

[sharp epoch]

and it also comes down to your team like if you run that build with a bunch of new players youre getting cooked unless you can basically solo

[narrow frost]

Of course

There is a lot of variables in DT

But every weapon is viable

Doesn't change that

[sharp epoch]

its a broad word

viable for you maybe in anyone elses hands no

[dry cloak]

Agripvolver with scriers gaze

[quasi dust]

can i get some feedback on my recon las build? I feel like every node i have is necessary, and its tough to sus out in the psychanium or however its spelled

and voc, survivalist, exhilarating takedown

[narrow frost]

Take it however you like, but I see onslaught so you probably shoot crushers. It's a 3 point investment that can be used to make your melee capable of doing exactly that but better (infinite ammo, and faster horde clear)

[quasi dust]

4 points. i suppose using a melee for crushers would be better. what changes would you make?

[narrow frost]

One min

What melee do you like?

[quasi dust]

im not picky

[narrow frost]

Combat axe is a really good pair

With recon

It handles horde and armor

Essy

Check pinned guide for blessing/stats/perks for it

Rashad Mark

Try using this

Play like a mixed combat user

This is the main part of the build

Kill in melee, ranged damage buff

And other way

So mulch horde with axe

Swap and laz down an elite or special

Grenades for boss stagger or bulwarks (fuck bulwarks worst enemy in game)

[quasi dust]

very interesting, I will try it out! thanks for the input 🙂

[junior grail]

Thanks Ainz, Sirosky and Magister for the feedback!

I have this dumb rule where none of my builds must overlap weapons so I am struggling to find another melee for Vet

[normal bay]

Shovel

[narrow frost]

I switch between shovel, all 3 axes and knife if bored

Just find something else

I was 1000 hours in before I found my fav weapon

Tactical axe

[junior grail]

Which taxe is good for the Vet? I seen players use the Heavy spam

But I also get conflicting ideas with the old one, saying Bromentum is a trap on Taxe?

[dry cloak]

Green and tan ones are the ones to use

[dry cloak]

Ask ainz and some people on psyker chat

[junior grail]

Ooo okie dokes thanks

[placid portal]

Did they give it a little more reach, bc last time I tried it the reach was pretty short

[tropic notch]

Ok Cole

Dude it can’t be that GOOD

I’ll use it more

This has to be better than crack

It’s actually usable on controller and no carpal tunnel

[trim steppe]

LOL infinite bolter on trials is hilarious

highly recommend

[frank basin]

It is one cast ability exe stance make infinite ammo?

I seen from videos

[trim steppe]

yeah a majoris that gives infinite magazine while exec stance is active

[frank basin]

Funny

[lost frigate]

anyone got working double barrel shotgun build on auric?

[pseudo fiber]

Feel free to drop agile engagement for superiority complex and bring it down (though DB has shit boss damage anyway)

[austere mica]

I would recommend going smokes

Saves a ton of points

And they actually have a place here as you have no good shooter control

[pseudo fiber]

Also a fair assessment then do close and kill

[torpid sundial]

anyone has a heavy helbore build for havoc? Love the gun to death, probably my most used weapon in darktide so far but not sure how to optimize my build

[serene bough]

I dont use helbore but at a glance your build is messy

The pathing and point investment is all over the place

[elder fiber]

Longshot is illegal talent, reportable to the inquisition

[serene bough]

Do people use subnodes when taking FT?

[tame lodge]

Either right or left one

[elder fiber]

Sometimes

[serene bough]

At a glance id probably run helbore in havoc something like this

But idk breakpoints or which melee to pair with

[torpid sundial]

grenade spam

[serene bough]

I wouldnt advise sinking so many points into grenades

Especially when you're taking 2 paths at the top and not taking Duty and Honor

Never go the left path towards Longshot is never worth it in havoc (or in general, really)

[torpid sundial]

fair

or I just run exec stance

and marksman focus

[serene bough]

Exe stance would work for helbore i suppose

But it really depends on breakpoints which needs some testing

If you can reach many meaningful breakpoints without MMF or Exec then that would be better

[torpid sundial]

I saw papa willy did do havoc 40 with a helbore but I dont know what build he was running

[serene bough]

Idk who this is

[torpid sundial]

I was just searching helbore in the discord search

[serene bough]

Ah I see

Well unless you have a solid pre-made already VoC is usually the most sought after ability when people bring vet

Huge team buffs and CC

[torpid sundial]

mm

[serene bough]

Some folks here who are good enough deviate from the meta but sometimes people will think you're throwing if you do that with randoms

But considering there's a huge emphasis on bringing down priority target elites with the current modifiers, I can see how the helbore could shine in some situations

[calm shard]

Exe stance gives helbore a very funny breakpoint to one shot crushers, but otherwise VoC is just better

[serene bough]

I figured VoC was better, but that is good to know

Which mark do people run for helbore

[patent slate]

are the hellbore lasguns even good

or did they get nerfed to the floor

[pseudo fiber]

They're okay

Niche

[patent slate]

ik they used to be broken 1 shotting crushers at one point

but now i dont even see them being used anymore

[pseudo fiber]

You can 1 shot crushers still
Takes a bit of set up but you can

[patent slate]

well its so unefficient now

u need 15 stacks of dont move

[calm shard]

Mk IV is a very good gun

The other 2 are very mid guns that are good melee weapons

[calm shard]

You need 3 with exe stance

From like a mid distance

point blank it takes 5

[patent slate]

actually thats not bad

but i still like to be able to move

[calm shard]

I mean you can jsut headshot a poxwalker

or a stalker or something

bam 3 stacks

[patent slate]

good point, how good is it for boss killing

i might have to try it out

[calm shard]

very very good boss damage

if you can y'know land your shots

[patent slate]

whats the dump stat

[polar charm]

I have a trash tier barely level 30 vet with an autogun and knife that I barely squeek by damnations.

With all the new stuff the talents got reset and I am clueless wot to do talentwise these days.

Also, damnation talentless was an EXPERIENCE.

Anyone have a basic noob build?

[calm shard]

stability

[polar charm]

I took all reload speed reductions.

I dont know good this will be. But atleast I will run out of ammo gloriously!

[tame lodge]

The so called entry level build

[craggy goblet]

this looks almost exactly like what i’m building rn

[vernal trench]

Exit level build

[strong ginkgo]

recommendations for a good recon build for havoc?

[queen sky]

does Deadshot still function at zero stamina?

[tame lodge]

No

[queen sky]

damn, thanks

is it worth trying to use it to fish for crits on a Mk.IX Infantry Lasgun?

or should I focus on trying to stack buffs instead

[strong ginkgo]

i'm new to havoc and recon just feels dubious to me. i dunno. but i've heard a few folks recently say it was good? and also that boss clear vet builds were relevant now since the patch that added the modifier? it still just feels way too hungry for high havoc. i was just wondering if there was an actual build these people were referencing.

or if they're just saying words that feel mouthgud X-D

[unreal nova]

It was mainly due to old havoc having pus skin. Infernus was why it was usable.

Any gun that doesn't apply DoT or isn't just overwhelmingly strong did nothing.

Current havoc allowed for more, but it's really a 1 clip 1 boss gun.

[strong ginkgo]

yeah. i'm just trying to find an alternative to pg because i prefer the gameplay of every other gun in the game to that and helbore. firing with charge-up time on non-staffs just hurts my brain.

[calm shard]

do you want a really fucking awful suggestion for a boss damage gun

[strong ginkgo]

i just want a havoc relevant gun whose gameplay i like

[calm shard]

oh havoc relevant

my suggestion would be dead then

sad

[strong ginkgo]

i can play anything on not-havoc X-D

[vernal trench]

theres abunch

[heavy rover]

I run infantry las on havoc

[vernal trench]

its honestly insanely mid now

[strong ginkgo]

i'm a fan of bistol boosted nade builds, but for the giant clumps of armor and more bosses, it just seems like bistol might fall off? maybe i'm wrong though. i haven't tried it.

[heavy rover]

I use deadshot on the mk iib infantry las

[calm shard]

wh-why?

[heavy rover]

Ammo efficiency and it's got really good damage against maniac

[calm shard]

If you were using the MKVII it owuld make sense

But the iib?

The fast firing one that eats your stamina instantly from firing?

[heavy rover]

Yep

I prefer the faster fire rate to keep up Ghost or stack infernus depending on the build

Combine that with stamina regen from focus target I can keep deadshot running for a long time

Ghost comes in extra handy where there's little cover like Gloriana

[serene bough]

Kraks over shredders?

[tame lodge]

Idk
This build was provided by path

Probably something for dealing with crushers

The so called entry level build

[serene bough]

theyre okay for boss damage and opening bulwarks, but in just about every other scenario shredders are just better

[calm shard]

shredders open bulwarks too

[serene bough]

true

[strong ginkgo]

i think probably shredder is the only good nade for vets in any sitch unless you are trying to meme or path for points later

[calm shard]

smokes are actually very good

[serene bough]

this build is ok if you want to incorporate agile engagement but otherwise survivalist/shredders are generally more useful than krak/fireteam

[calm shard]

they don't compare to shredders though

shredders are the literal best blitz in the game

it's insane how overpowered they are

[heavy rover]

Shredders with bolt pistol are hilarious and I hope it'll stay like that

[strong ginkgo]

which is why i was hoping someone would come in and tell me bistol was AMAZING for havoc X-D

[serene bough]

this is what i'd usually go with for a basic template

[calm shard]

I used bistol in old havoc just to make my shredders better

It's an alright gun, but you really run it for the shredders

[strong ginkgo]

i didn't ever play old havoc. i just started doing havoc a few days ago.

[serene bough]

i like current modifiers more than previous modifiers

[polar charm]

Rain ruins my fps to the point the game becomes un-shootable.

Melee somehow works.

Any way to disable rain?

[calm shard]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2890098681

[strong ginkgo]

everone is saying the new havoc is basically peak darktide

[unreal nova]

Unless you can't afford a PC upgrade.

24 FPS is not really playable.

Even with DLSS4.

[strong ginkgo]

did the new update break consoles or something?

[unreal nova]

Consoles just crash more.

I just have a 5 year old mid range pc.

[serene bough]

i wouldnt go that far but its significantly better than the previous version

[heavy rover]

Yeah

I'm getting my ass handed in current havoc but at least it offers more build flexibility

Old havoc basically forced everyone into specific builds

[strong ginkgo]

oh i gotcha my brain did something weird with your previous comment. lol

[unreal nova]

Thus, if you can't afford to upgrade... sub 20 fps well.

You can see why near unplayable.

[strong ginkgo]

when you said pc upgrade for some reason my brain went "from console to pc" instead of "from pc to better pc" X-D

[unreal nova]

Just too many entities for my cpu tbh.

Like spicy auric maels can cause dips at times but H40 is another level.

H30 is already 40fps avg.

When not SPICY.

But I can't afford $3.6k for a new PC so eh.

[strong ginkgo]

top 5 me, if you don't mind

[atomic void]

bro just turned everything off lmao

how to make the game run good, make it look like its in the alpha stage

[strong ginkgo]

best graphics = no graphics X-D

[polar charm]

Currently doing the same.

I wanna enjoy the gunplay.

Not a slideshow wishing for the stars every second the next slide is positive.

I got a crusher train coming to me and I plasma'd two of em down until jittering and then the third and the fourth in line came to heavy me in the head the next slide.

[atomic void]

yeah fair

in high intensity missions u wont be admiring the view anyway

i lowered my setting to medium because i still want it to look somewhat nice

[strong ginkgo]

it's like powerpoint with extra buttons

[atomic void]

anything lower than that and the game just looks too ugly

[dry cloak]

I think i have everything set to medium

[calm shard]

framerate>graphics

[atomic void]

i like a good balance

for me it jumps between 100-60 fps due to cpu limitations at my current settings but i got used to it

[faint beacon]

Gonna be dead serious

how the fuck do people use Powersword

shit feels miserable using outside of "Delete chaffe"

[tame lodge]

Power up
Kill stuff

Push every now and then

[coarse wolf]

it's a boring weapon

[tame lodge]

Activate light for insta stagger

[tame lodge]

Activate Push Attack light light for anything big

Push every now and then

Dodges won't be enough to keep you alive

You gotta weave a push every now and then

[polar charm]

So uhhh. Is there a way to change where my % are allocated on a weapon? Andwhat blessings should I get for this thing?

[viscid sparrow]

why did they make the powersword have garbage dodges? its a one-handed sword, not an exceedingly heavy polearm or something...

[unreal nova]

Nope. You gamble for a new one to change max %.

[tame lodge]

You'll have to get a new knife

Also the blessings are any non bleed

Uncanny+ Riposte/Precognition

[polar charm]

Shucks. Dont really have the currency for that yet. Which blessings on this no finesse knife then?

[faint beacon]

See the issue I keep having

[unreal nova]

Bleed is fine if you aren't going serrated blade. Uncanny is a must.

[faint beacon]

every damn time I dare push

[viscid sparrow]

unless running Lacerated Blade talent (not recommended)...

[faint beacon]

8 ragers manifest

[tame lodge]

Uncanny + Precognition/Riposte

[faint beacon]

and then immediately swarm me instead of the ogryn running into the horde like an idiot

[unreal nova]

Just Flesh Tearer to heads.

[polar charm]

Precog even when I have only 60% finesse dmg?

[tame lodge]

Yeah it's more finesse

It just won't be BIG finesse

But still finesse

[tame lodge]

For Ragers you gotta throw an activated light

It'll stagger then

And you can stun lock them

Activate light loop

[faint beacon]

Load in

immediate bulwark push

immediately trappered

watch everyone else die within 3 seconds

I love Darktide pubs

[tame lodge]

Or get the mk3 which heavies are good for Ragers

[faint beacon]

Issue is the moment i do its an immediate trade for 50% HP

[mighty willow]

Which one?

[faint beacon]

to stun a group of them

[tame lodge]

[faint beacon]

literally why I've been using anything else in regards to melee

or praying to fucking god my team notices

news flash

they do not

LMAO

[coarse wolf]

play Shovel

[polar charm]

What perks should I get for my knife? Thinking of going crit so... nuts on crit and - elite dmg?

[coarse wolf]

never use crit for a perk on any class except psyker

[mighty willow]

That being said. Executioner Sword to Darktide when?

[coarse wolf]

real

knife perks are flak maniac, like most other weapons

[faint beacon]

Elite + Flak if you're vet using what

Uncanny something else

Anyways the more I've played Powersword the more I've realized

wow

[polar charm]

It should do, I guess.

[trim breach]

man this new havoc is kicking my butt hard

[faint beacon]

veteran really has abysmal dogshit melee options LMAO

[tame lodge]

The humble Evis15

[trim breach]

keep getting 1 shot by chaff

[faint beacon]

RBlade X

[trim breach]

maybe i should do a voic of command build

[faint beacon]

Cause recall ever since They dropped Evis no longer exists

its simply a group hallucination

[coarse wolf]

now you understand why i hate playing vet

[faint beacon]

its why I want Veteran to have SOMETHING reliable

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-force-unleashed-gif-23620078

Well Evis15 is

[faint beacon]

not fucking insanely overpowered cause obviously thats Zealots gimmick

[tame lodge]

Evis3 can retire

[coarse wolf]

ogryn now too

[faint beacon]

Just something that doesn't make me want to fucking blow my brains out in melee

[tame lodge]

No one's using it

Unless you're meow

[faint beacon]

Its why I've been using like

lets see

Shovel, Knife, Heavy Sword, Combat Axes (all of them)

I fucking hate how PS feels

NOTICE

one of them is only Havoc viable

and that is barely viable

[trim breach]

are there any voice of command builds to recommend for havoc?
rn running 2 toughness and 1 wound curios

[unreal nova]

Because Relic is better Evis.

[faint beacon]

Can we like

🚬

[tame lodge]

Eh

[coarse wolf]

voc, weapon specialist using Shovel and double barrel

[faint beacon]

Fucking buff the older weapons seeing its clear we're just gonna power creep at this point

instead of nerf

[coarse wolf]

not havoc viable but VERY auric viable

[trim breach]

I see >0>

[mighty willow]

Zealot is usually the one with the cool melee options, while Veteran has 5 different Lasguns and 5 Autoguns

[tame lodge]

I mean Evis15 doesn't really fall off against RB, unless it's horde, then RB just wins

Goddamn cap

[faint beacon]

VOC, Nade Spam, DB WS with Knife is

incredibly viable

for Havoc

[coarse wolf]

not even knife
shovel
like a man

[faint beacon]

That are all incredibly mediocre thats what makes me depressed

[coarse wolf]

[trim breach]

oh ye is it just me or the chainsword is absolutely terrible for veteran

[faint beacon]

Helbore

Shovel

Specifically if you're using this

[tame lodge]

Yeah it's just horde clear for vet

[coarse wolf]

ah yes recon lasgun is mid
as it can kill multiple bosses simultaneously using infernus dumdum

[mighty willow]

John Kriegsman build

[unreal nova]

Was in general. The cap instantly makes it worse.

[trim breach]

thing is, i cant even clear a horde cuz I keep getting staggered out of doing my light attacks

[coarse wolf]

(i found one use to cause an argument :D)

[polar charm]

WHat to put on curios on a vet these days? Resistance vs gunners annnd...?

[trim breach]

i have better chances using the rashad & dueling sword

[trim breach]

ironically

[faint beacon]

cause recall it effects Melee

[mighty willow]

Recon Lasgun makes my brain activity plateau with how easy it is to use, especially in a crit build

[faint beacon]

I dont bring up recons cause they're good by sheer volley of fire

every other lasgun outside of the pistols just cause they're mobility tools that deal decent damage

[tame lodge]

Horde wise yes
It's neck to neck on single target damage
Like milliseconds diff

[faint beacon]

are either mediocre

or terrible

And then obviously the only overpowered Auto is Vraks

but havoc hard pushes it out

[mighty willow]

Lore Accurate*

[coarse wolf]

recon is just boring to use

[faint beacon]

If it was Lore Accurate they'd honestly be a lot scarier against anything that isn't Carapace

[mighty willow]

"The only way they are scary is in a massive volume of fire, melting through steel"

That seems about right 😭 🙏

[faint beacon]

I think im also just getting tired of Veteran's lack of anything new

its been since fucking what

Sept of last year since we got "new weapons"

which were literally just a Zealot and Psyker melee LMAO

[lusty ether]

remind me

power sword variants

what should I care about?

[faint beacon]

Dump Cleave target cause power cycler makes up for it

[mighty willow]

I got tired of Zealot and started playing Veteran.

Try a new class

[lusty ether]

generally it's not a bad idea to have every class levelled

[faint beacon]

Yeah im considering just fucking maining Ogryn till Vet gets a weapon or tweaks

cause I've been having fun playing Ogryn vs Veteran at this point but I'll always main Vet

Besides its a huge difference between my Lvl 300 Ogryn and this

[mighty willow]

Only one i don't have yes is Ogryn

[iron elbow]

Full auto on the recon feels like someone ripped a multi layer off a chimera

[mighty willow]

I didn't like his old playstyle but i might try it after the rework

[unreal nova]

Why till they remove the cap, Relic is better than the Evis. Everything else is close. But in a fair mixed horde situation, relic just wins. And yes, I want the dumb cap gone from Evis and the ChainAxe. Relics of a bygone age.

[faint beacon]

Ogryn to be brutally honest feels like a better Zealot

after rework

if you build it right you're straight up teetering on unkillable

that and Heavy Hitter after it being reworked to heavy only to now just melee

[mighty willow]

Ironbreaker type shenanigans

[faint beacon]

you straight up get 400% more melee damage over all

its fucking insane

[unreal nova]

Just light spam.

[barren nimbus]

Ogryn was arguably the strongest auric class before the rework

and slightly bad in havoc 40

and they basically giga buffed it for no real reason

you'd actually have to be an idiot to die on an ogryn in non havoc missions

[sleek garden]

There are lots of idiots

They're just trying their best

[gilded raft]

That was always true. Oggy was always unkillable by anything other than trappers and dogs.

It's easier to be unkillable now, but at high levels, the threats are the same

[tame lodge]

There was reason

[faint beacon]

There was a very big reason

[gilded raft]

The buff was more about variety of choice and builds that just "make stronger"

[faint beacon]

But before hand yes Ogryn was already playable and good if you had game sense

Its just you literally had two peices of bread to play with

or you were throwing basically

(Shield or Pickaxe pick or choose)

[gilded raft]

There were 2 builds only. Bonk or gun, with zero variety

[faint beacon]

You will play the same 2 things over and over

you will enjoy it

[tame lodge]

And gun build wasn't even a good gun build

Gunlugger was basically PBB and nothing else

[gilded raft]

Yeah. Boss deleter, horde mulcher

[faint beacon]

Vaccum all the ammo on the map and piss your teammates off

rinse repeat

[gilded raft]

Now oggy has the same problem the vet does. Too many good talents, not enough skill points to get everything i want

Good problem to have, you get build variety with that

[faint beacon]

Ehh I'd say its to a lesser extent

cause admittedly you guys still have good choices near the middle and top that make up

Veteran has an issue of everything you really want

is near the bottom

super fucking taxing

I feel like another reason is cause power creep is now obviously becoming extremely prevalent and its starting to show itself slowly but surely overtime now as well

[gilded raft]

oggy does have good stuff at the top, but most of it is defensive

all the build defining stuff is in the 3 bottom trees as well

bottom left for major punching power, middle has the best nodes for support, controll and debuff, and right is the gun/crit buffs

the stuff at the top is also good, but you really only take the same middle bits for toughness on hit then 1-2 defensive nodes at most, and down you go for the build-defining stuff around the auras and the bottom trees

which is why you never have all the points you need to branch out quite as much. Same problem as vet really

which is where the no-keystone veteran builds come from

oggy keystones are arguably better though, so I don't think we'll see no-key oggy quite so commonly

[faint beacon]

I mean your guys actual talents above keystones and honestly idk why You wouldn't take HHi

when you literally get 400% more melee damage with everything stacked

its possible

its probably useable

but again the hell is the point when HHi

[gilded raft]

yeah, HH is definitely the big bonk tree, but FNP is massive tankiness, and the nodes going to FNP are very strong too

[faint beacon]

NHF is the most free QOL passive I have ever seen LMAO

[gilded raft]

yeah, but it's a massive tax to get there if you go heavy-hitter

you'd be giving up a lot to have the points to get it

[faint beacon]

its not super terrible but it is Taxxing admittedly

[unreal nova]

Mortis build. No points for melee with funni boomies.

[faint beacon]

Though you can either pick up the swap speed or Bruiser, GSI

[unreal nova]

Funni burny bigger boxes of boomies.

[gilded raft]

the FPS killer build

[unreal nova]

You mean accidentally crash consoles build.

[gilded raft]

although... veteran with lasgun or infantry autogun and executioner stance with infinite ammo during the stance and knockback per bullet....

magdump a monster in the head and pin it against the wall forever

[polar charm]

I got recon lasgun with dumpstat being stability. This is trash tier, right?

[hollow ibex]

no that's fine

[gilded raft]

if you can still control it, it's fine

the recon doesn't have much of a recoil to begin with

[hollow ibex]

technically the dump is collateral

[tall torrent]

Not a tax when the adjacent talents are so strong

[polar charm]

Collateral as 60% is better?

[hollow ibex]

but honestly i think you can dump stab/collateral/mob and itw on't make a huge difference

[gilded raft]

yes, collateral is the dump because your stagger/suppression with it is gonna be garbage anyway

but if you can still control it, dumping stability isn't terrible either. Depends on your budget to buy yourself one from brunt with collateral dump. If you got the dockets, go for it. if not, good enough

[polar charm]

How to max mastery easier than fighting through a million missions?

[stuck gorge]

buy that weapon type like 30 times and upgrade them all to green, then sacrifice them

[gilded raft]

in my mind, at least 1 node getting to nhf is tax. Bruiser is nice, but the one after is just some movement speed and stun immunity for 4s on power use... which... meh, I could do so much more with 1 talent in melee damage. or weapon swap speed which I literally cannot feel. Maybe it saves me a few frames, but I literally couldn't notice it when I was explicitly looking for it in the psykanium

but nhf is very strong, so I think it's fair to pay some point tax to get to it if you're otherwise specced into heavy hitter

[tall torrent]

No pushover and hard knocks are so strong that NHF is merely 1 point

[gilded raft]

no pushover is funny, but unnecessary

you can stagger anything in the game except bosses quite reliably with most weapons, if you even need to

and every 8 seconds makes it unreliable. Funny, but not great.

either way, like I said, 1 tax point feels fair for nhf, so no complaints.

mostly just observing that it's those kind of changes that brought the build choices a bit inline with the veteran talent tree in terms of being bottom heavy and not enough talent points to get all the goodies.

[polar charm]

Uhhh is theres a difference between the recon lasguns you want for havoc? XII or XIV?

[tall torrent]

XII or VIc

[gilded raft]

fastest fire rate for fastest infernus stacks

more crits, more fire, more death

[polar charm]

I got XII with a dumpstat of mobility. Heh.

[tame lodge]

14 has 3 cleave but costs more ammo per shot

Havoc doesn't really have the ammo to keep it up

And hordes have their mass buffed

So at some point that 3 cleave doesn't really matter