veteran-class

[broken spade]

Realistically I doubt a mobility nerf will happen

[hearty trout]

If you balance a game around being an absolute god at the game, goodbye your entire playerbase

[trim badger]

I kinda feel this would go into uselessness

No safety, no breakpoints

What would be the point?

[queen fox]

Ds4 is broken at any skill level dude

[hollow ibex]

it's ok, but wouldn't consider top tier due to crippling lack of carapace

[broken spade]

How many mobility nerfs have we had ever? I think just the force sword infinite dodges removed

[hearty trout]

Yeah, hence make it more skill based

[queen fox]

Ds4 needs number changes, not a rework

[trim badger]

You kinda need at least >50% headshot rate to notice how broken it is

Thing which Malice players don't achieve

[hearty trout]

Instead of nerfing it's power entirely until it has no distinguishing benefits change the things that allow it's extreme ease of use

[tall torrent]

Uncanny strike nerf from 120% to 20%
Reduce heavy atk base damage slightly (can no longer 1 hit kill both gunners without significant investment)
Reduce heavy poke base ADM vs carapace
Increase heavy poke finesse vs carapace
Reduce heavy poke finesse vs unyielding
Reduce light atks’ cleave damage distribution to 2 targets
Reduce max sprint bonus at 80% mobility to +0.4m/s

[hearty trout]

This game is the easiest game to land headshots in any melee/fps game

[trim badger]

Weapon is dead

[brittle turret]

Choked on my morning yogurt

Reading that

[tall torrent]

Nah lol

[trim badger]

You won't believe how bad malice players are

[hearty trout]

Yeah I know

[queen fox]

Would you apply the mobility nerfs to all duelling sword or mk4 only?

[brittle turret]

Ds5 would probably need a bit of toning too tbh

[void dragon]

dont doubht my lack of faith in low rejects

[tall torrent]

All

[void dragon]

gotta show how much DS users are getting away with

[queen fox]

Will mk5 still have 2 mobility stats?

Lmao

[broken spade]

Would you apply the cleave nerf to mk2 h2? cleaving with that move is kinda the whole point of even having that mark

[tall torrent]

Buff cleave damage distribution on that specific attack, but nerf light atks’ cleave distribution

[hearty trout]

Nerf mobility, reduce attack speed across the board by like 30-40% don't touch damage

[queen fox]

I assume it would only be for the poke animations, or maybe the light attacks too

[hearty trout]

We don't want the sword to be useless either

[broken spade]

okay fair

[atomic void]

reducing attack speed on a lightweight poking saber?

[queen fox]

Just give me a spear at that point

[void dragon]

new weapon? long range and ok movility for the guardsman that will only touch melee with a long pole

[hearty trout]

I mean, unless you're using animation cancelling tech, the tiny combat blade heavy attacks are slower

So it would make sense

[atomic void]

idk making the DS not speedy takes away a lot of it's appeal

[broken spade]

I think people react badly to attack speed nerfs. Community would hate it

[hearty trout]

Yeah and nerfing it's damage into oblivion doesn't?

[broken spade]

we don't really want to destroy people's muscle memory

[tall torrent]

Read again, I even buffed some aspects of it

[atomic void]

who said nerf it into oblivion
just make it not utterly broken?

[trim badger]

Still same harsh nerfs for MK4 with slightly less for MK5 and 2

Weapon is dead

[normal bay]

Several other weapons can work without amazing armour damage, don't see why DS couldn't manage

[tall torrent]

It’s not harsh lol what

[hearty trout]

Nah nerfing uncanny makes sense

[tall torrent]

What’s “harsh” about it

[hearty trout]

Uncanny allowing you to turn off enemy armor is indeed a problem

[trim badger]

Yes but to 20% is big oof

[trim badger]

Gunners part

[tall torrent]

To 20% is fully justified

It’s in line with other rending sources

[hearty trout]

Just shoot the gunner?

[tall torrent]

Just invest more then lol

Read it fully

[hearty trout]

The amount of people I see try to slide there way to a gunner 50 miles away only to get demolished is funnt

Coulda just shot em eh

[broken spade]

Yeah i think it's fine
I would like it to be 40 for force swords tho.
Plenty of blessings have different values for different weapons and I think it's not as messed up for them

alternatively change the adm for illisi special

[normal bay]

It can be a good strategy if you know what you're doing. Getting into a gun fight with them is not ideal

[tall torrent]

Nah
20% across the board

No special treatment for psyker

[hearty trout]

Yeah, if you have the opportunity to. And idk, I just shoot em before they shoot back

[tall torrent]

If there’s to be special treatment for psyker they deserve more nerfs

[hearty trout]

Revolver gang

[trim badger]

Rip vet shovel or am I crazy

[tall torrent]

Shovel needs its base damage and stagger amped up

[broken spade]

I don't think you realize the amount of effort it takes to kill a crusher with an illisi
And it's genuinely engaging gameplay to get those buffs up

[tall torrent]

Irrespective of uncanny

[normal bay]

There are 10 gunners and 20 shooters, good luck

[hearty trout]

You also have 3 teammates 😉

[tall torrent]

Make base ADM & finesse slightly better

But obliterate uncanny strike

[normal bay]

Yes and I have no confidence in them

[hearty trout]

The fact that uncanny overshadows almost every blessing in the game for any weapon that has it is telling of why it needs a nerf and other things buffed

[broken spade]

As i said, i'd be fine with making illisi special have a better adm as an alternative

as long as i can do it somehow after enough buffing

deimos and obscurus probably don't need much help for crushers

[tall torrent]

Uncanny should also use Mrending code instead of rending

[atomic void]

i dont think they're gonna nerf anything tbh
they'll just make the game more cuhrazy to match the insane damage output players can dish out

just look at recent havoc literally wtf is that lmao

10 billion bosses at once yeeeaaahhhh booooyyyyyy

[broken spade]

Yeah and the assail and scriers buffs psyker got make me think they're planning their buffs around havoc, so i think they're commiting to balancing around insane shit

[faint beacon]

I did reread up on the rending and Brittleness effects but what in the fuck is the difference between Mrending

[broken spade]

also ogryn rework is pretty stupid on auric too
I think they just stopped caring about being balanced for auric

[faint beacon]

Is this just old jank code

[tall torrent]

Code created specifically for Zealot’s FotF for the effect to be melee only

[atomic void]

the game feels like this
normal game = balanced around average players
auric = doable by average players but requires more effort
havoc = for people who find aurics too easy

[trim badger]

You know what that means, time to buff every other weapon that's not meta yay!!1!!!

[tall torrent]

Did I show u my vet tree final draft

[broken spade]

I think i might've seen it

[broken spade]

Looks pretty reasonable

[signal cypress]

Field improv being moved higher is honestly a smart choice

[broken spade]

I think in this case, Grenadier might need a bit of a buff for it to ever be worth grabbing

[faint beacon]

It just clicked to me now it’s M(melee)

[tall torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-steam-steamhappy-gif-11912067498964962572

[faint beacon]

Holy shit my bad I should’ve known better after rereading LMAO

[broken spade]

I don't feel like grenade capacity is that significant for a class that regens nades 1 by 1.

[trim badger]

This would massively nerf my playstyle but makes sense

[tall torrent]

Why

[signal cypress]

Demolition stockpile should be buffed, maybe round 30- 40 seconds imo

[trim badger]

I currently use things that in your tree are spread all around

[tall torrent]

Like what

[trim badger]

All the lower part of current tree basically

[tall torrent]

But they’re still there in the bottom half

[broken spade]

There seems to be less tax nodes so you can probably still reach the ones you want

[trim badger]

Not enough points methinks

[void dragon]

that looks quite smooth

[tall torrent]

I’m afraid you think wrong

[trim badger]

Maybe

[tall torrent]

Oh and that tree doesn’t mention the changes I made

There’re 2 extra pages

Am too lazy to find them rn

[faint beacon]

It opens up for better pathing and understandable synergies with the tree

My personal opinion I still think iron will should be put higher in that lower section of middle tree just cause that’s a Bread and Butter pick for Veteran

Next to Tac Aware

[crystal berry]

Hi! Technically returning but practically newbie player, I'm looking for a current beginner friendly veteran build, any recommendations?

[trim badger]

Probanbly recon lasgun builds

[pseudo fiber]

I mean beginner friendly

Shredder, Survivalist, VoC with gold toughness node, iron will, tactical awareness then path right to weapon spec

[trim badger]

Weapon sex

[arctic rampart]

someone help my brain remember what all these node-names translate to what-they-do. haha jeez I'm looking up like half of them. tree looks better than status quo

probabably not said nearly enough.. thanks for all the work you're doing @tall torrent

[tall torrent]

after looking at how ogryn performs
ngl I think even my draft is not enough in power

[unreal nova]

If you wanna use oggy as baseline, Vet needs kinda serious buffs.

[arctic rampart]

What about if you use psyker or zealot as a baseline

[slow spade]

10% base crit, 200 base toughness, and 7.5% toughness regen on melee kill UwU

[arctic rampart]

Probably minor buffs compared to them, and realistically mostly for non-voc options

[tall torrent]

if psyker baseline, veteran needs more buffs in dmg

if zealot baseline, veteran needs more buffs in survivability

[unreal nova]

If it's oggy, need buffs in both.

[pseudo fiber]

What if you buffed vet based on what Vet needs

Which is love

[slow spade]

Vet gets a shoulder-mounted multi-las

[arctic rampart]

I mostly play auric maelstroms as vet, random groups. The psykers I see have a massive ceiling but 95% of them are not reaching it. My psykers level ~7 soo I don't exactly have a strong basis to compare to though

Kind of reminds me of knife zealot meme where 90-95% of them are fodder but 5-10% are gods

[slow spade]

Yeah I noticed that too

[arctic rampart]

By comparison if vet just takes VOC they're strong

[slow spade]

A lot of players aren't even reaching half their potentual

[pseudo fiber]

Psykers these days only know warp charge, inferno staff, be bisexual and top damage on scoreboard without effort

[kind scarab]

Hot chip psyker was not what I was first expecting to see when I wake up

but he got a point tho

[slow spade]

At least they're not M1 spamming

[arctic rampart]

Just buff the tactical axe & shovel already you fat sharks. And gimme some fatty tuna belly for lunch

[faint beacon]

Veteran is fine damage wise

[kind scarab]

Time to crawl out of bed from napping and make a silly lil build

[faint beacon]

Zealot needs a lot more changes

[slow spade]

Would tac axe even be interesting if it was buffed?

Idk the movesets sadly

[faint beacon]

I mean it’s good

[arctic rampart]

Tac axe is already fun wdym

[faint beacon]

Already

[arctic rampart]

Is it good? not really lul

[slow spade]

I didn't say fun, I meant interesting

[arctic rampart]

Well fun could = interesting to some people

[slow spade]

Tbh I would probably just keep using Rashad

[slow spade]

True

[arctic rampart]

I like the light spam one, fullauto W go brrr

[slow spade]

Sadly idk enough about the tac axe :c

[arctic rampart]

I want to like chain axe 4. But then I use it and suck with it

[pseudo fiber]

Never thought it'd see you of all people converted

[karmic moat]

My Antax axe will not leave me. it has bound itself to me with my simpleton's appreciation of beeg number

[faint beacon]

They have 1 fucking build

Veteran has a handful just

You always choose VOC

That and then limited melee options

And survivability outside of VOC

That’s veterans “big” issues

Keep in mind this is if you’re not running iron will which you’re forced too

[gilded wraith]

Which mortis modifiers synergize the best with shredder grenades?

[faint beacon]

Geminating

Lucky me

Forget which one is 75% brittle

But that doesn’t have a cap per blast

But it’s really good

Scavenger

[gilded wraith]

Thanks! The chance to gain 3 grenades one didn't activate nearly as often as I expected.

[pseudo fiber]

It's really funny

[tall torrent]

90% chance to throw two
20s regeneration
100% bleed vulnerability

[marsh shard]

Ignoring Ogryn (just reworked)

• Vet is the best designed class, that said VoC needs nerfed and the other skills need either a rework or a buff.

• Psyker needs balance tweaks, blitzes reworked, and the existing nodes on the tree should be moved around a bit (psykinetics aura, fe... its overtuned and its position on tree locks any build that wants to use assail out of it.)

• Zealot needs a major tree rework

[tall torrent]

Vet has a ton of problems with his tree

Simply changing abilities is not enough

[marsh shard]

Agreed but its miles ahead of the others

All classes need reworks but Vet is lowest priority of the 3 remaining

Zealot literally has 1 build, and 2/3 blitzes are ass

[tall torrent]

Psyker is lowest priority

Psyker can be fixed with ~80 small nerfs

[hollow ibex]

They were lowest priority even before, so naturally they were the first to get a rework

[marsh shard]

Psyker needs a boatload of adjustments and you can make the case that all of its blitzes need reworked or deleted

[hollow ibex]

Ogryn or zealot should've been first to get a rework

[broken spade]

rework smite
that is all

[marsh shard]

Smite is ass

[hollow ibex]

Got it, we buffed assail again

[void dragon]

Psyker doesn't really need as much of a rework as the vet and zealot but honestly smite needs to become a shotgun blast to stagger and kill hordes

But not the slugfest it is now

[hollow ibex]

That could be cool

Like rapid chain lightning

[pseudo fiber]

I think that's the first smite rework I've thought would be neat

[void dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[marsh shard]

Psyker needs like 5 full ass pages of balance changes and a complete rework of smite at mininum

[tall torrent]

Yea, ~80 small nerfs

And psyker will be fine

Zealot needs more

[marsh shard]

Smite is not fine

[tall torrent]

Veteran needs more

[void dragon]

Nah minimum is smite rework, from there the other changes can come later

[atomic void]

immo granade is a good blitz

[hollow ibex]

Fatshart is terrified of nerfs

[atomic void]

only stuns are whatever

[tall torrent]

Because most of psyker’s changes are pure numbers

Not much in terms of creating new code / mechanics

Zealot and veteran need changes that need new code

[marsh shard]

No one in their right mind can suggest smite is anywhere near the realm of fine

[tall torrent]

.

[marsh shard]

Complete rework/delete it outright

[broken spade]

I want smite to be changed to a completely different blitz

[void dragon]

Remake it so you charge and then deal damage on a big cone depending on charge time

[broken spade]

it's just fundamentally unfun

[void dragon]

Electric shotgun x100

[marsh shard]

I'm sick of all the braindead smykers just spamming it

[pseudo fiber]

Reddit can :3

[marsh shard]

Reddit is full of dumbasses

Priority #1 should be removing smite from the game, psyker is highest priority rework

[void dragon]

In my vision you MUST charge it for a lot of peril generation so you can erase a horde of fodder, so team protecting you is a good idea to eliminate and stagger enemies

[marsh shard]

Then zealot

[broken spade]

I think in terms of tree reworks, zealot needs it the most

[hollow ibex]

thats why i was incredibly amused that psyker was the first to get a rework lol

[marsh shard]

Zealot needs tree rework the most by far, case can be made that the blitzes and skills themselves are fine in a vacuum.

The tree itself tho is doodoo

The stuff that is good is too good, the stuff that is bad is too bad

[void dragon]

Yeah, stun nades and incendiary are good but doesn't make them worth because of the tree

[broken spade]

4 tax nodes for choosing a different blitz lmao

[tall torrent]

Psyker wasn’t first

Veteran was

It just wasn’t done all that well

[atomic void]

bro is really holding a grudge against smykers gyatt dayum

[hollow ibex]

wait what was it

thought psyker was the first to get a full tree rework

[unreal nova]

Tell them about what is a keystone.

[tall torrent]

Veteran had like 4 tree changes lol

[analog mural]

no keystones remember?

[pseudo fiber]

Vet tree released then got keystones then got a rework

[void dragon]

Wait Vet ALREADY had a rework?! And is like this?

[hollow ibex]

that doesn't count

[tall torrent]

No, only new nodes added

[broken spade]

whole zealot tree is just 25 tax nodes to grab the 4 things you want
no real decisions aside from keystone

[hollow ibex]

finishing an incomplete tree

is not a rework lol

[pseudo fiber]

No it got a rework after that

[hollow ibex]

what was the rework?

[hollow ibex]

not a rework then

[pseudo fiber]

It's easy to mix them up because they released within a month of eachother

[hollow ibex]

are we talking about adding keystones, or something else?

[atomic void]

zealot change is probably too much effort
changing the entire tree without gutting and ruining all the muscle memory and playstyles people got used to is no ez task

[hollow ibex]

"it's super broken, so we shouldn't fix it"

[tall torrent]

Zealot rework cannot be good if until death is available outside of martyrdom

[broken spade]

Honestly i can understand them not doing it this patch because it'll be its own separate update

[hollow ibex]

yeah i mean i can get that too

[void dragon]

Honestly that's a terrible argument, it making people get used to a broken class isn't healthy

[hollow ibex]

it's just their prioritization is what baffles me

[broken spade]

they realistically weren't gonna do both ogryn and zealot tree reworks on literally the same patch

[atomic void]

no its more like "half of the tree is fucking useless and people like the strong option so we need to provide great alternatives if we're gonna nerf the performing talents"

[marsh shard]

Vet has a variety of different builds. Bunch of strong nodes. 2 "usable" blitzes, 2 "usable" skills. Its the best designed right now.

[atomic void]

its not anymore broken than shout vet psyker and now ogryn 2 shotting everything

gimme a break

[radiant chasm]

lol zealots have been practically begging for nerfs and a tree rework cause it's so boring playing the same build

[pseudo fiber]

It released without keystones.
Traitors curse part 1 added keystones
Traitors curse part 2 reshuffled the tree because it was way too fucking long

[hollow ibex]

so basically "it's super broken, so we shouldn't fix it"

[void dragon]

I'm talking on build crafting level, and I do think Vet shout is broken

[radiant chasm]

no lol

[hollow ibex]

i honestly don't remember the second one at all

[marsh shard]

Vet shout is op af but

[atomic void]

that is the exact opposite of what i said

[radiant chasm]

zealot has one build with pick your keystone

[hollow ibex]

read the rest of the convo. thanks.

[radiant chasm]

it's embarrassing compared to all the other classes

[radiant chasm]

i did lol

[marsh shard]

1. Smite exists. It shouldnt

2. Zealots have literally 1 build

[radiant chasm]

you are being the fool and putting words in their mouth

[hollow ibex]

bro, just get a room with him lmao

[atomic void]

half of the tree is unironically useless and not because the rest is op, its just useless

[radiant chasm]

yea it's this one lol

[marsh shard]

Smykers are the cancer of the dt community

[unreal nova]

1.5 builds.

[radiant chasm]

can't handle dissenting opinions when it's more than one person, gotta resort ot personal attacks

[hollow ibex]

ok mr. white knight

[radiant chasm]

Die mad I guess

[atomic void]

i thought we're grown ups here

[hollow ibex]

zealot prob should've been reworked first

then ogryn

[marsh shard]

Nahhhhhhhh

[void dragon]

I fear the zealot virus has affected the people here too

[hollow ibex]

but it's fatshart 🤷‍♂️

[radiant chasm]

still wrong, from a zealot main perspective

[broken spade]

It's pretty clear that even fatshark knows zealot needs more and are just kinda leaving it alone this patch because they're gonna end up changing it anyways.
I'm not even just speculating here. They made it pretty obvious that they have things planned

[marsh shard]

Ogryn DEFINITELY needed the rework

[radiant chasm]

ogryn needed the rework first

[pseudo fiber]

I think if they put demo stockpile where the tree splits into the nades for Vet we'd be fine for like 2 years

[hollow ibex]

i would've been fine with ogryn first too

[radiant chasm]

zealot is playable and fun to play

[atomic void]

ooo i missed this
good news
now get playtesters who truly love the class and have a good vision

[hollow ibex]

yeah, like the three builds

[pseudo fiber]

We got Cole

[radiant chasm]

ogryn had severe lack of build variety in their weapon arsenal and weren't as fun to play

[atomic void]

SaveUsCole2025

[radiant chasm]

despite how shit our talent tree is, we can use every weapon we have access to

[marsh shard]

Look man.

Zealot needs the rework really bad, it only has 1 build.

Ogryn had 0. That class was ass

They were right to rework Ogryn first

[hollow ibex]

nah ogryn was super strong in the right hands before the rework

[unreal nova]

He just probably got overbuffed so vet feels meh now and Zealot is 1.5 buids with choose keystone.

[radiant chasm]

ogryn had 2 builds but they weren't that fun and rewarding to play+ stupid things you had to worry about that other classes don't

[hollow ibex]

it's just that you had two mele weapons to choose from basically

[radiant chasm]

with karsolas or shield

lol

[void dragon]

Imagine my joy for being able to play bully club and feeling powerful

[hollow ibex]

uh. yes.

[radiant chasm]

zealot at least, every melee is playable

[hollow ibex]

zealot def has more options in terms of weapons

[atomic void]

zealot just needs to give the players a reason to stop using THE BUILD TM (TRADEMARK)

[broken spade]

zealot's likely next anyways

[hollow ibex]

yeah

and vet in 2027

[marsh shard]

Meh? VoC is busted af and so are shredders. Weapon Specialist is the business. Plasma Gun is ridiculous. Vets break resource economy both in terms of nades and ammo. They have a handful of busted af nodes. Theyre strong, but too much of their power budget is loaded into a certain aspects of their kit

[pseudo fiber]

Then we can get another psyker rework

[void dragon]

You can make even trash builds work in the right hands, that's not a good metric

[pseudo fiber]

After that ogrtn again

[hollow ibex]

psyker rework overbuff

[atomic void]

darktide 2 when

oh wait the game came out of beta recently

mbad

[pseudo fiber]

Maybe next year

[hollow ibex]

not the metric i'm using.

[tall torrent]

Zealot needs rework more than veteran
Veteran needs rework more than psyker
Psyker needs mainly nerfs (~80)

[broken spade]

zealot didn't get much this patch because they probably didn't feel there was a need to refine something that was getting replaced completely

[tall torrent]

Psyker tree is mostly fine in terms of structure

Just some things need to be moved around

And nerfs

[hollow ibex]

the only rework for psyker tree i'd approve of

is martyrdom psyker

[broken spade]

if they gave like 20 minor tweaks to zealot tree before replacing the entire tree, i'd be wondering about their priorities lmao
them getting nothing this patch makes sense

[void dragon]

Odd way to spell "self exploding psyker"

[tall torrent]

Psyker tree’s issue is the illusion of choice
But it’s not related to its structure, just talent placement

[hollow ibex]

yes

[radiant chasm]

psykinetic not-an-aura still exists zzz

only nerfed by 1% zzz

[tall torrent]

Yea, I did say ~80 nerfs

[radiant chasm]

i don't think fatshark realized the reason people dont go assail isn't cause they are weak still, it's cause of that fuckin node

[void dragon]

What's the 3rd build style for psyker? Staff and gun are two, but can't recognise the 3rd

[bleak cradle]

We dare not speak its name

[tall torrent]

Blitz intensive

[broken spade]

disgusting

[unreal nova]

Assailer.

Flees.

[marsh shard]

Zealot's tree needs a full-on rework.

Psyker's tree just needs some stuff moved around and a bunch of # tweaks. Smite needs to be removed from game.

Vet is the opposite of Zealot. A variety of builds, a boatload of strong nodes, but tree needs rearranged... smoke nades need to be removed from game... and they need to nerf VoC and Iron Will hard. That said, I'd like to see other aspects of vets kit brought up to compensate

[void dragon]

Don't think there is a defined build for that,what I tried feels like a hybrid, is that intended because the keystone is the easiest to access?

[marsh shard]

Theres more than 3 for psyker tbqh

Which staff you run changes things a lot

[void dragon]

As they should

[marsh shard]

Right

[void dragon]

That's not different from cleaver, bullyclubs and shield on ogryn

[marsh shard]

Well nah its p dramatic

Like Inferno wants venting shriek

[bleak cradle]

Psyker has 3 builds. EK/inferno/VB is 1. Smite is 2. Gun/melee/voidstrike is 3

[marsh shard]

Smite is not a fkn build

[normal bay]

Psyker has some decent hybrid options and buffs to different parts like blitzes, melee, ranged, combat abilities. Blitzes could do with some buffs but psyker tree is pretty good

[marsh shard]

Inferno is a totally different build from EK

[void dragon]

Smite should be a FUN and ENGAGING build

Not the carp we have

[bleak cradle]

Nope

[broken spade]

it's nearly the same tree

[marsh shard]

EK doesnt run VS

[bleak cradle]

Yes it does hahaha

[marsh shard]

Wait

[unreal nova]

You forget, assailer. Usually seen on lower diffs.

[tame lodge]

Why's bro advocating for removing stuff😭

[marsh shard]

Have yall not seen the psyker changes?

[bleak cradle]

EK will still run VS

[void dragon]

Me playing assail Bistol on havoc 20: wait really?

[bleak cradle]

Outside of SG buff

[marsh shard]

The scrier's changes are busted

[broken spade]

sure but shriek is still busted

[unreal nova]

Usually. Not only.

[bleak cradle]

My only point was psyker has 3 builds to choose from. 4 because Karien is demanding I be inclusive to the low levels

[marsh shard]

Whats cool is its 3/4 builds with several variations of each

[void dragon]

Is prob my fav psyker style with venting, wonder how higher I can bring it

[bleak cradle]

And you don’t mix and match. Which is where path was saying there is an illusion of choice

[broken spade]

even if we're considering ek with scriers, how is that not just voidstrike with 1 node changed?

like it's still one of the 3 trees people use

[unreal nova]

Is my eepy morning build.

No need to aim.

[marsh shard]

Well, the question would be is bubble worth taking

[unreal nova]

Just like EK.

[marsh shard]

You wouldnt want to use bubble with Inferno

[void dragon]

But I do aim! Bistol pop heads od snipers is FUN!

[marsh shard]

You wouldnt want bubble with gunker

[bleak cradle]

I haven’t played high havoc currently so can’t say if bubble is still worth it on havoc builds

[broken spade]

bubble inferno was the old havoc meta. probably not anymore

[marsh shard]

Right

[unreal nova]

I bring EK for more lazy.

[marsh shard]

So really, the 1 staff I'd prob rock Bubble with is ek

[broken spade]

but like it's not like inferno is really suffering in damage even when they take bubble

[marsh shard]

EK doesn't lose as much as purge/trauma staffs by not running VS

[void dragon]

I like to use the Gandalf staff to say to the horde: YOU SHALL NOT PAAAAAASSSS

[marsh shard]

And EK also benefits a lot from those nodes on the bottom left that reduce peril gen

[unreal nova]

Strike needs aiming, lazy for eepy morning builds.

[bleak cradle]

I mean. EK loses more with bubble because you have melee out more and not doing EK

[marsh shard]

And the keystone reduces ability cd by quite a bit, can spam bubble on cd

[broken spade]

EK still wants the horde damage from VS, and the vent from the ability

[bleak cradle]

I feel you are just arguing for your unique dclaw build haha

[void dragon]

VBlast I was refering, but I get ya, EK for the 0 stress build is good

[unreal nova]

He always does it, if it's that person again.

[broken spade]

I run EK with bubble so like you can def play around it
But it doesn't really feel like I'm missing shriek less than when i'm playing inferno bubble

[void dragon]

What's the issue with Dclaw outside it not managing caparace?

[unreal nova]

Is fun to a degree, but makes everyone glare at EP Assail.

[marsh shard]

Its cool tho because this is how a class discussion should go

"Check out all these different ways to play it"

With Zealot.... lol

1 build, with small room for flavor

[unreal nova]

I mean, I don't care too much about it and it can work with parries and such. But he just keeps pushing it even if it's more of a fun weapon than meta.

[bleak cradle]

We all agree zealot needs help

[void dragon]

I wish there was a full dedicated tank defender build with crusher, but that's not the reality we live in

[unreal nova]

1.5 builds. You might want corruption removal depending on event and modifiers.

[void dragon]

The auras being so restricted is a bigg issue I feel

[tall torrent]

what's VS

[broken spade]

venting shriek

[bleak cradle]

⬆️

[void dragon]

Venting shriek

[tall torrent]

y'all gotta come up with better abbreviations cuz VS first thing i thought of was voidstrike

[bleak cradle]

Lol

[broken spade]

i thought we loved needlessly confusing abbreviations in this community

[void dragon]

Next you say is FS is fat shark and no force sword

[marsh shard]

Its weird, because Zealot's blitzes and abilities are by far the best in game in a vacuum (if we ignore upgrades)

I mean... none are outright bad

[void dragon]

@tall torrent can I ask what ways DClaw has to be defensive centric outside of its parry? Is it fast on dodges?

[signal cypress]

I love how blitz was really just a lazy ass way to name grenades (and throwing knives, also excluding psyker shit)

[broken spade]

we have to call dclaw defensive because it sucks at being offensive

[atomic void]

rock my fav granade

[marsh shard]

I dont like dclaw outside of psyker, but that shit is busted on psyker

[void dragon]

Yeah, but maybe I can be the preferred melee for gun only vets?

[marsh shard]

Stam trinket = completely unnecessary on psyker

Low stam delay = can infinitely slide around

Block costs peril + bwob = weakspot kills quell 10% peril and you generate less peril

Dclaw = infinite blocking/parrying... recent buffs made it easier to do since the entire parry/riposte animation counts as blocking and can chain into itself

[tall torrent]

ofc not

[void dragon]

I suspected as much, but is only as Music4 say? It's just looping parry all time?

[marsh shard]

Youre not just looping parry

You can use parry to cancel animations

[tame lodge]

You're right
We are going to call it bowling ball and abbreviate to BB

[marsh shard]

New charged strike also enhances heavies, which buffs the horde clear of dclaw which relies on h1 to clear hordes

So youre using H1 -> parry cancel -> repeat.

And if you are going to get hit mid H1 you can cancel out of H1 animation with parry.

Or push attack for stab -> h2 (overhead)... etc...

All of this can be canceled with parry

And parry is also buffed by charged strike

[void dragon]

Charged strike is the psyker smite node?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[broken spade]

charged strike dclaw is an interesting idea

maybe i'll try

[slow sky]

Second wind should restore 100% toughness, overflowing into golden toughness with no cap
Scourge should have a 100s duration on stacks and have no cap, and enabling double crit multiplying the crit damage by the finesse multi again when rolling the % above 100, likewise for triple crit above 200% and so forth
I have a good vision

[void dragon]

Definitely looks like a legit FS balance team member

[atomic void]

fatshark hire this man

oh wait

[sharp epoch]

zealot is strongest class i dont know why they think it needs more its the only class that solos the hardest difficultu

[slim copper]

Actual balance team:
"We've added more support for the stealth loner build for teammates that don't like cohesion"

[normal bay]

They're not buffing Zealot. They're giving it options.

May even be some nerfs to "THE BUILD TM"

[sharp epoch]

right now the build is strong they just dont like being forced onto the right side for the crits but vet has the same thing

its almost mandatory for every vet build to take iron will + the cdr on specialist kills

also grenade regen

[void dragon]

because those things are universally important for the class and each side dont have something equally valuable (seriously, each side should have some greanade perks considering how important they are for the class)

[thorn lark]

@rotund tartan

[rotund tartan]

people solo on every class

ogryn rn is stronger on non monstrous solos than zealot imo

[sharp epoch]

solo h40

[thorn lark]

That's not soloing most of the time

[rotund tartan]

@old prism got close on old h40 with old ogryn

[vernal trench]

running through a 40 isnt soloing lmfao

[broken spade]

you guys are replying to this like it isn't bait and i think that's beautiful

[vernal trench]

apollo did do it

[thorn lark]

That was mobility and breaking spawns

[vernal trench]

he did archivum true solo on ogryn

[rotund tartan]

link?

[vernal trench]

ran through it but on ogryn still

[old prism]

No speedrunning tho

[faint beacon]

Ogryn casually have free movement through chaffe hordes is what’s massively carrying it aside from HHi being itself

[vernal trench]

apollo ran througgh it he didnt tyr to kill everything

[faint beacon]

Shit is insane

[rotund tartan]

newgryn could definitely solo old h40

[vernal trench]

he wasnt trying to anyway he just wanted the win and got off lmao

[rotund tartan]

that's not hard

[vernal trench]

yea but newgryn cant solo the new h40

[vernal trench]

on ogryn it is

[narrow frost]

no not really

[rotund tartan]

i havent seen new h40 but i really doubt anyone can

[faint beacon]

Not at all lmao

[faint beacon]

You get stonewalled if you retreat

[thorn lark]

WORLD FIRST tm

[faint beacon]

Encourages holding your ground

[vernal trench]

too many monstrosities

[rotund tartan]

https://youtu.be/tPaxmuGsgvM

[vernal trench]

u dont have time to kill everything

[rotund tartan]

luke did it on gunlugger on a toaster laptop

[vernal trench]

cool

dont know who that is

[rotund tartan]

so?

[vernal trench]

ur gonna run out of time and ammo before u kill everything in the new h40

its a shame

[sharp epoch]

i think they changed the ammo on havoc it feels like it gives more

[vernal trench]

ur just on low havocs

it gives around the same once u reach almost 40

or 40

[inner crest]

https://tenor.com/view/definitely-maybe-romance-comedy-ryan-reynolds-yep-gif-5008341450946414225

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-ryan-gosling-cereal-embed-failure-laugh-at-this-user-gif-20627924

[sharp epoch]

😔

[quartz nymph]

@tall torrent do you have that generic vet build image?

[sharp epoch]

i have been stuck on h30s

[faint beacon]

Vet build TM

[quartz nymph]

Bless thank you

[tame lodge]

It even has more choices 😭

[vernal trench]

atleast u havent been ass fucked by the game itself

[sharp epoch]

is that a meme build or legit build

[sharp epoch]

whats that mean

[vernal trench]

got to the end of 38 and 3 silent bursters ended the run

[tall torrent]

it's abt as standard as entry lvl vet build gets

[sharp epoch]

I thought they usually all run survivalist

I think for new havoc I'm actually gonna use kraks again, the bosses are usually the round enders so basically we need one person on pure boss killing

[faint beacon]

Ogryn

Branx

HHi

Problem solved

[thorn lark]

Don't need survivalist outside of havoc tbh

[faint beacon]

It’s a QOL aura but any game mode aside of Havoc

[sharp epoch]

Every vet I've seen runs it though to the point I have a fireteam aura build whenever theres another vet

its not optimal but I think 99% of vets just path to it just because

[barren nimbus]

They need to make swapping skills out easier. It’s kind of unreal I have to deconstruct my entire build to swap grenades or auras

[wind grotto]

theres a mod that lets you right click anywhere and it gives anything below that relied on that node the points back

and that should just be vanilla behavior

[formal ice]

Have more builds mod

You PC player bastard

[barren nimbus]

This update has taught me to use less mods

[formal ice]

You'll be able to use mods

Just wait

[void dragon]

Mods are healing, I already have my humble collection up to date and fully operational

[hidden torrent]

I'm sad the Mortis Trails are so easy 😦

[inland orchid]

did u digest too much havoc?

[past oriole]

i havent played in a hot minute, whats new

[inland orchid]

how big is a hot minute, we talkin before or after havoc's existence

[past oriole]

after mhw wilds got released

so like 1 month

[inland orchid]

ty for actually saying a time frame cuz i was not bout to remember when wilds dropped

we got this new thing called mortis trials to fuck around in, gives your operator extra passives and add-ons to your already existing build

through waves

[past oriole]

is ogryn good now

[inland orchid]

oh, that was your worry? Yes hes fine lol

couldve asked in #ogryn-class and im sure you wouldve had a bunch of lads informing u on that front

[past oriole]

any weapon balancing

holy moly catch a breath

[inland orchid]

?

i stopped typing cuz i was going to find stuff

[unreal nova]

Is really good. Is hilarious in Mortis.

[inland orchid]

patience man

[past oriole]

ya wtf

this is a crazy buff

[unreal nova]

Pick Colossus and pray for Iron Will 2.0.

[past oriole]

Serrated Blade

Stacks 1 to 2.

bruh thats fucking it

[unreal nova]

After, Shout and become god against gunfire.

[past oriole]

just catch a breath

[inland orchid]

so you found it on your own

[past oriole]

ya navigating fatshark forums is so poop

[inland orchid]

defeats the purpose of asking me then

[past oriole]

but i bashed my head agaisnt it until the path was clear

[inland orchid]

glad u found it tho

i briefly skimmed the posts bout havoc in #📢news-bulletin

[past oriole]

im too stupid for the weapon changes though

[tall torrent]

it deactivates on blocking hit

[past oriole]

are ogryn weapons all good now

that was like my biggest problem with that class aside from being fat is that only two weapons were good

[past oriole]

fug i block a lot

[tall torrent]

most are good at the very least

[past oriole]

or did i havent played in a while

[tall torrent]

karsolas is strongest melee in game

branx is prob 2nd best ogryn melee

[unreal nova]

Dodge spam with tacaxe or DS is extra funni.

[tall torrent]

mk4 cleaver prob 3rd best

then shield

because it's a shield

[past oriole]

my favourite weapon in the whole game is making it

[unreal nova]

It's DS4 but not DS4.

[past oriole]

holy shit it looks so much faster

does the quell cancelling changes affect voidtrauma right click boom boom cancels

[tall torrent]

yes

[past oriole]

its fucking joever

[inland orchid]

psi-bolt quell canceling still works to my knowing

[past oriole]

wtf they didnt even touch shotguns

[inland orchid]

so if u wanna be a ball masta u can

[past oriole]

i only really quell cancelled voidtruma rmb

cause it was easy

[inland orchid]

i find lmb easier but ive never tried the rmb canceling so i dont got that good of a reference

i feel bad tho for lads that macro the process, i get saving your mouse's durability but still

[tall torrent]

ogryn got buffed from a top 4 class to a top 2 class

[inland orchid]

if i wanted to let the warp play the game for me i'd become a daemonhost

[tall torrent]

psyker got buffed and now only needs 80 nerfs to be a well balanced class

[past oriole]

i guess scriers is the new craze]

kinda crazy that got buffed

[tall torrent]

all 7/7 of veteran buffs missed their mark and veteran is now a top 4 class

[past oriole]

i just wanted shotguns to be good

i cant believe they didnt touch any of the subnodes for stealth and marksman

at least marksman

maybe we should ask for a rework like the ogryns

will be fun to try out new scriers and assail though

Psykinetic's Aura

“This still stands as one of the strongest talents in the end game, and holds a bit too much power on its own. We’re reducing the amount slightly, and will monitor its effect.”

Cooldown: 5% to 4%.

nvm psyker in shambles

[tall torrent]

psyker went from needing 50 nerfs to needing 80 nerfs

[past oriole]

im just gonna enable mods and hope my game doesnt crash

[tall torrent]

it prob will

[past oriole]

hold my beer

[tall torrent]

a bunch of mods were broken on launch

[past oriole]

i dont use many mods tbh

here comes my natural luck stat

are the havoc changes good i still havent touched the mode

[tall torrent]

it's a lot higher in difficulty

new h30 is harder than old h40

[past oriole]

that sounds good for people who like havoc

im still sad theres no mm system for it

[broken spade]

scoreboard crashed on endscreen, so if it looks fine and then crashes at the end, you know why

[past oriole]

is it good difficulty or tedious difficulty though

[past oriole]

o shit i have that

[broken spade]

maybe there's an update by now. Haven't checked

[tall torrent]

interestingly difficult

[past oriole]

yeah looks like theres a patch for it

[arctic rampart]

Some of the ones i needed to update missionbrief, commodore's vestments, penances for the mission, extended weapon customization, numericui

If you go to the darktide mods (site) and click on "last updated" that will be a convenient way to check

[past oriole]

ya looks like its just scoreboard

maybe voice of the emperor

i dont use many ui mods

except warp unbound timer

but i checked and it seems to be working still

[wicked verge]

veterans

you can only choose one gun till the servers of darktide are shut off

which gun you using?

[gilded raft]

A shotgun that i can use to shoot the servers myself

[past oriole]

dueling sword

[wicked verge]

at least grizzly said a gun

you picked dueling sword

[past oriole]

nvm veteran is the most buffed class in the game @tall torrent

no contest

[unreal nova]

I literally only use Bolt Pistol like 99% of the time.

[tame lodge]

Agripina Infantry Autogun

[surreal gust]

Agri revolver

[placid portal]

Shredda Pistol

[faint beacon]

Vigil Autos I’ve remained loyal since like 800 hours

I’m now at 2k

[tall torrent]

Why

[past oriole]

funny hat

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-lie-detector-cap-you-are-lying-stop-lying-gif-12198388917433403789

As much as zealot chat disagrees Psyker as taken that badge of honor

[uncut pebble]

Most op? Yes. Most buffed? No.

Ogryn has received the most love in one patch possible.

[sinful swallow]

I think that's still zealot when they got ds

[unreal nova]

Oggies have mk 4 knoife.

[sinful swallow]

Are they really taking off or are people just bored of pickaxe

[tame lodge]

They got buffed so

[raw apex]

oh no, the knife is genuinely strong now. Was using a MK III Bull Butcher yesterday for horde clear. It performed better than I anticipated, and it was so fast too. Lightning fast woo! It also seemed to hit from farther away as well.

[austere mica]

The punch is also like

Really good

Staggers everything out of attacks (can't stop a mutant though, even though shovel and taxe can)

[raw apex]

true, love taking heretic heads off their shoulders with a nice little uppercut

[tame lodge]

They also deal damage

Finally

[austere mica]

Oneshot most specials on a HH build

[raw apex]

yep! also seems to have cleave stagger too no?

Did an uppercut and knocked 5 enemies around the enemy I targeted back.

[tame lodge]

Yup

Punches have a decent cleave

Buffed by +cleave talents and blessings

So while you'll be really hurting the first target

[raw apex]

oh yeah, that heavy hitter keystone target mmm

[tame lodge]

Everything else get pushed

[raw apex]

big cleave

[tame lodge]

Once I get time to play I'll go straight to default shovel

Big punch front and center

[raw apex]

oh yeah the punch on the shovel!

[sinful swallow]

I mean I know they're good

They were honestly decent before just didn't benefit much from tree

But objectively I'm not sure yet if they're strong strong or good enough + bored of pickaxe lol

[raw apex]

What I've used of them, they definitely don't deal as much damage sure, but what with all the debuffs I can stack now what with bleed on top of the talent to speed up attacks with chained hits, hordes die so much quicker with the knife. It also has way longer reach than I remember from before. I was pleasantly surprised. Had a blast with it yesterday 😄

combined with bull rush for some extra melee and movement speed too the knife sung! I would highly suggest getting one and trying it out at the least 😄

[tame lodge]

Oh yeah the tree is also funny with pickaxes

So I guess you won't get bored of them so early

[pseudo fiber]

Taxe veteran how does that work

I feel like torturing myself

[faint beacon]

You're insane if you think Psyker isn't Overpowered

Nothing but back to back buffs that enables for map clear

sheer and utter BS

[narrow frost]

They are the most game breaking

Ignoring range interactions, EE and bubble

The most cc in the game

Trauma and smite

The most infinite cleave

PC, shreik, purge, trauma

[faint beacon]

POTS is now working so they can now have Rending Soulblaze up and working

[narrow frost]

And infinite ammo

[uncut pebble]

I did say psyker was overpowered though?

"Most op? Yes."

[faint beacon]

Mfw the update dedicated to Ogryn also snuck in unhealthy amounts of Psyker buffs

that they DID NOT need

[narrow frost]

True

I mean it's good they buffed the worst class

[faint beacon]

How I feel

[narrow frost]

Someone told me psyker was the worst class so it's true

[faint beacon]

Yeah Ogryn was too strong

[signal cypress]

Nope
The psyker is perfectly balanced, not a single thing wrong at all, totally, grade A 100% balanced

All that broken shit is part of the package

[faint beacon]

we need to nerf it

[signal cypress]

[sharp epoch]

vets need better ammo sustain to even compete with psyker tbh

[narrow frost]

Vet has their role so does psyker

[sharp epoch]

like even if vets had infinite ammo i doubt theyd out damage them on havoc

[faint beacon]

Not really no

[narrow frost]

but psyker in the long run is always going to be better

no matter what

they cant shoot a wall for 300hours and still have ammo

psyker can

nothing you can do

[marsh shard]

Well wait

All the classes need buffs/reworks

Like, all classes have varying amounts of shit nodes/abilities/blitzes/etc...

But yeah, psyker just got buffed in areas that didn't require buffs

[tall torrent]

No because veteran doesn’t scale infinitely with density

[marsh shard]

Yeah inferno staff claps

Trauma staff claps

[pseudo fiber]

they should take some of those target caps from evi and out them on inferno

[marsh shard]

Well wait

Nades exist. Vets scale incredibly well with density

Just not as well as psyker

[tall torrent]

Not nearly as dispensable as psyker’s anti-density tools

Bleed is also a weaker DOT than soulblaze

You also don’t have nearly as many tools to further that DOT

[marsh shard]

Ehh... before my argument would have been Psyker doesn't have yellow toughness and Vet > Psyker in terms of deleting key targets

Like, Vet has phenomenal st paired with great aoe

And VoC + Iron Will is absurd

[tall torrent]

Psyker ignores “density as a threat” as a concept which is what this game’s difficulty push has been trying to do

[mighty anvil]

https://youtu.be/8RRJwwP9_b4 Im a returning player, so with the itemization update we dont need to farm for god roll? We can just max the weapon out to 380 and its good to go?

[marsh shard]

Well, density as a threat... paired with resource starvation

[tall torrent]

Only 2 weapons have specific perfect stats (plasma gun & ripper gun), the rest are ez

[marsh shard]

Psyker will always be the king of resource management, that is part of the class design

[tall torrent]

Resource agnostic anti-density tools that scale indefinitely towards density

[mighty anvil]

i thought the combat axe needed perfect stats to be viable as well

[tall torrent]

Just broken

[tall torrent]

Yes, 4x80+60 is very easy to get rn

[marsh shard]

Right, thats the issue

[tall torrent]

It needs to be nerfed very badly

[marsh shard]

I agree

[tall torrent]

I said ~80 nerfs for psykers and I rly do mean it

[mighty anvil]

whats the +60? is that mobility

[tall torrent]

Yea

[marsh shard]

And I really do agree

[mighty anvil]

so i got my combat axe maxed out, so now i just need to farm for a 4x80 +60 rashad axe and im good to go?

[tall torrent]

Yes

I will add that combat axe doesn’t scale that well into mortis or current havoc

[iron marten]

Pretty funny how the hardest to roll weap is plasma lmao

[mighty anvil]

whats the meta melee wep now?

[marsh shard]

DS4

If not DS4, then WS Psword imo

[tall torrent]

Power sword VI for veteran

Much better than duelling sword in basically every metric

But if you’re talking overall

[marsh shard]

WS Psword + Plasma Gun + Frags is the best setup atm

[tall torrent]

The strongest melee in the game is Karsolas pickaxe

It’s been Karsolas (for a long time)

It’s made even stronger with ogryn new tree

[sinful swallow]

What's ripper gun perfect stat?

[tall torrent]

80 damage
80 range
66 ammo
The other 2 stats can spread in any way

[marsh shard]

WS completely negates both Plasma and Psword's weaknesses

[sinful swallow]

Oh shit the 66 for barrage

[tall torrent]

Mainly just for power sword

Not much for plasma

[mighty anvil]

i never liked Psword 😦

[marsh shard]

Psword and Plasma both have massive upside with some large downsides... but the downsides are outright made up for by WS

[tall torrent]

Nah

Power sword gets dodge which is good

[pseudo fiber]

Honestly I may give Psword another go in havoc tomorrowish

[tall torrent]

Plasma’s main limitation has always been “what u want to shoot with it”

That’s not affected by WS

[marsh shard]

Ehh

[pseudo fiber]

Is BP lethal shredder still good in havoc

I'm assuming so because of the horde changes

[marsh shard]

Long af load and ammo economy

[tall torrent]

45 shots between reloads

Plenty

Always prepared is a wasted point for plasma

It’s only ~6s downtime for sprint cancel reload

[marsh shard]

Either way, plasma has great damage per shot

And punchthrough

Makes excellent use of the guaranteed crit

[pseudo fiber]

Indeed really funny it's a weapon that's been at the bottom and the top throughout history

[tall torrent]

I think it’s the best vet melee now undeniably

BM also pulls ahead over sunder in this iteration of havoc

Because of enraging elites

It’s better to confirm kills than to go for cleave stagger

[pseudo fiber]

Does it need any nodes to hit breakpoints or is it kinda cheap

[tall torrent]

I think just superiority complex

U don’t need BID for it

Carapace + elite

[mighty anvil]

is there a spreadsheet for god roll breakpoints?

[pseudo fiber]

That's not that bad then

[tall torrent]

It’s 3 hit for like every melee elite lol

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah I'll go over my bolt pistol build tomorrow then gonna miss the dodge distance of DS though

[tall torrent]

It’s not as big of a deal

DS was always ass at mixed horde

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah probably not
It is fun though

[tall torrent]

Which weapon are u looking for

[tall torrent]

U can prob run the same boltpistol with power sword

[marsh shard]

Idk, I do really think the mobility + anti-elite of DS4 keeps it at the highest of tiers regardless of how strong psword is

[tall torrent]

Boltpistol needs that always prepared node tho

[mighty anvil]

chainaxe

[marsh shard]

Uncanny + frags is 🤌

[pseudo fiber]

I got the needs dw dw

[tall torrent]

60 defences

But rly, chainaxe is pretty meh for veteran

[mighty anvil]

so i just got this 4x80 +60 now i just need to consecrate it, and then max it out and im good to go?

[tall torrent]

[pseudo fiber]

Honestly I was running plasma in havoc 40s (pre update) and its just fucking boring so I switched to BP and had like infinitely more fun

[mighty anvil]

im running a ws bolt pistol build, so im just looking for a fun melee wep to clear hordes

[pseudo fiber]

Then it's a fun one for that

[tall torrent]

Yea chainaxe is not good at horde clear

[sinful swallow]

Chaxe is not your horde clear

[pseudo fiber]

I think I use chain axe on my DB infiltrate WS build

[sinful swallow]

If you don't need it to take care of armor, I honestly really like dclaw since you go reciprocity and desperado

[marsh shard]

As a dclaw enjoyer, not a huge fan of it on vet

[iron marten]

I miss the bug when parry crits on dclaw got rending cause it got it from your revolver rending blessing....

[marsh shard]

Dclaw is absolute god tier on psyker, but not a fan on vet

[sinful swallow]

This is how dclaw one shots with zealot, fotf your parry in a crushed head

[iron marten]

💔

[mighty anvil]

whats good for horde clear?

[tall torrent]

Power sword
Combat axe
Heavy sword
Chainsword

Within those 4

Chainsword folds vs everything that’s not pure horde

Heavy sword folds vs carapace armor

[gilded wraith]

I got absolutely shredded for saying that on Reddit.

[sleek garden]

its still a fun weapon

but not the greatest

[mighty anvil]

so this is good for horde clear?

[atomic zephyr]

i know this isn't the modding discord, but is anyone aware if the newest update messed up any mods?

[last marten]

looks good imo.

[umbral scaffold]

Caxe is very good on vet

[mighty anvil]

join the darktide modders discord server

[sinful swallow]

Yes lots are blown up

[sinful swallow]

Yes this is true power

Unarmored gets you the breakpoint on the bruisers, remember that maniacs you want to use light attacks they have better damage against that type

Heavies are for shotgunners/scab gunners/carapace/unyielding

[mighty anvil]

havoc has its own matchmaking 😮

[hollow ibex]

yeah and that's why the mode is usually dead

[tall torrent]

Swap maniac to carapace

[formal ice]

Heretic propaganda

Aren't them also killing the population of Atoma?

[wicked epoch]

which mods got broken again this time?

damn game wont launch

[cloud thunder]

So how’s the new havoc

Been taking a break for wilds

[bleak cradle]

Fun. Hard with pubs. Much more boss focused

[cloud thunder]

Gotcha. Will probably try it this weekend and the new horde mode (and how is this btw)?

[bleak cradle]

Mortis trials is a snooze fest. Density is so low for 9 out of the 12 rounds.

With tweaks it could be a lot more fun

[cloud thunder]

Ah so it’s more casual

Gotcha

Will try both

Do you prefer the new havoc or old one

[bleak cradle]

New

Mutators are more interesting. Shooters got nerfed. More boss battles

[cloud thunder]

Sounds interesting

[bleak cradle]

Monster specialist modifier is inherent

[cloud thunder]

More build diversity then

Speaking of, looking forward to trying the new psword

Bet it’s busted now

[bleak cradle]

I didn’t realize they changed power sword

[cloud thunder]

Apparently you don’t lose charge when hit anymore

[tall torrent]

best vet melee rn

[tall torrent]

yes & no

u can still lose charge if u get hit while u are attacking

all 7/7 vet buffs this patch missed their mark

[cloud thunder]

Well considering that you slice through things like butter when attacking, that shouldn’t be too much of an issue. But do you lose charge when hit and not even attacking

[tall torrent]

before/after attacking, u don't lose charge when hit

it's only when u get hit while attacking where charge is still lost

[cloud thunder]

Gotcha

I knew this would jump psword to busted tier. Can’t wait to try it

[tall torrent]

vet is top 4 class now

ogryn went from top 4 to top 2

u can easily get smth like x400+% dmg for ur melee weapon with talents & blessings for pickaxe and cleaver

[cloud thunder]

What do you mean by top 4

There’s 4 classes

[tall torrent]

yea

top 4 class

[soft solstice]

I imagine this is probably the best place to ask, how we feeling the shredder pistol changes? shooting while sprinting is big and I still miss that on the las pistol

[tall torrent]

means it's one of the classes in DT

[cloud thunder]

Are you trying to say they’re all the best

I’m confused

[tall torrent]

I'm saying that vet is debatably worst of all 4

as in, "top 4" of 4 classes

[iron marten]

Top 1 would be psyker innit

[tall torrent]

zealot core kit is still overpowered, they just don't have variety

psyker got buffed from needing 50 nerfs to needing 80 nerfs

[iron marten]

Pathing of Zealot is pretty cursed as well

[tall torrent]

ogryn went from top 4 to top 2

[marsh shard]

I'd put Vet ahead of Zealot.

All classes have atleast 1 great build tho

[tall torrent]

zealot's core kit is better than veteran

[marsh shard]

I'd go:

Psyker

Ogryn
Vet
Zealot

As in, all 4 are close but Psyker has a clear advantage over the other 3. Zealot has 1 great build but requires great tknife usage to really make it competitive/edge out a decent Vet

But I'd still put the 1 great zealot build just below Vet

[cloud thunder]

Bottom line

They’re all good

[tall torrent]

zealot
ogryn
psyker
veteran

[cloud thunder]

All viable

Which is how it should be

[marsh shard]

Youd put Ogryn above even Psyker rn??

[tall torrent]

x400+% melee dmg

is not a joke

[iron marten]

I think the main complaint would be that sometimes it's too viable

[tall torrent]

it's very much a mathematical reality

[marsh shard]

Right

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1354901937123754054/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2025.03.27_-_15.35.42.01.mp4?ex=67e6fa42&is=67e5a8c2&hm=a47856fcac75107494cf26c7efa29737a9259fbd3e6c8760e84ac23993809fb5&

[marsh shard]

The issue is all classes have a variety of builds but Zealot

[cloud thunder]

While I do appreciate the math portion of things, it’s the “feel” of the gameplay that’s important too in my preferences

And everyone has different preferences

[iron marten]

Holy shit hahaha

[mortal horizon]

how you guys feeling on new havoc, what weapon combos do you like? plasma ds still meta?

[marsh shard]

My issue is the Zealot's kit isnt fluid like the other 3

[gilded wraith]

Not an evaluation of build variety, an evaluation of how powerful their best build is.

[marsh shard]

With the exception of tknives

[tall torrent]

power sword beats every other melee for veteran
ranged is still plasma / recon / boltpistol

[marsh shard]

Right, I'd still put the best zealot build on par with the best vet

[tall torrent]

nah

[gilded wraith]

Then we'd disagree.

[tall torrent]

second wind, duellist, until death, holy revenant, IoD

much stronger kit

[marsh shard]

Issue is the best, and really the only, Zealot build has higher skill ceiling

[gilded wraith]

Does it?

[cloud thunder]

?

They both have low skill ceiling

[gilded wraith]

Absurd damage mitigation.

[mortal horizon]

power sword in havoc with its bad mobility? really?'

[tall torrent]

with current havoc design, yea
u need to confirm kills on elites as best u can
nothing beats power sword in that purpose

[marsh shard]

A zealot with good tknife usage vs a zealot with poor tknife usage is night and day.

The skill expression is absolutely massive on zealot compared to other classes

[gilded wraith]

Close up mulch it, lots of them flame it, far away knife it.... missing the complexity.

[marsh shard]

Its the "far away knife it" part

I'm not saying its complex

[atomic void]

Imo zealot trademark build is easy to play but hard to master
For every psycho running around mauling everything there's 10 people that get swarmed and shredded
At its core it's literally just "play the game" but the moment to moment gameplay loop has a lot of depth

[tall torrent]

easy to play, easy to master

broken kit rly

not as broken as psyker for dmg vs density, but 100x more forgiving

[gilded wraith]

Heh, if you can't knife it swap flamer for bolter. Single shot is very accurate.

[marsh shard]

I mean, I wouldnt say any of the classes are hard to play

[tall torrent]

arguing "skill factor" is a null point most of the time

[marsh shard]

Agree

To an extent

Like, if something is strong and braindead easy to use thats a problem

[atomic void]

If that was the case everyone would be running around doing numbers like Cole or ainz or insert good player here

[marsh shard]

Thats why you see braindead smykers rolling around stalling aurics and havocs

[tall torrent]

anyone who bothered learning melee combat should find it very easy to play

as to how many actually did learn melee combat, that's predictably low

[atomic void]

I'm not saying it's some big brain playstyle tbh I'm just saying getting real good with it has a high ceiling

[gilded wraith]

I hear you've gotten good at melee, enjoy your silent trapper through bulwark.

[marsh shard]

Part of the issue with psyker is that its strong af and anyone with 2 brain cells can get a lot out of it

[tall torrent]

zealot's kit is just gifted, coming from the perspective of a vet player

u get more TDR

better CDR

dmg immunity

absurd finesse

absurd toughness gain

[atomic void]

Yeah the build TM is cracked in the right hand

[tall torrent]

on top of

[marsh shard]

CDR is cool, having only 30sec CD on a teamwide VoC is great too

[tall torrent]

best stam regen rate

and 2nd best stam regen delay

[marsh shard]

Well wait a second there

[tall torrent]

it's just insanely generous

[marsh shard]

Coming from the perspective of someone whose invested most their time in psyker, I have substantially less value in stam regen rate than I do stam regen delay

[atomic void]

I can't imagine zealot working as a Frontliner without these strong talents ngl lol

[tall torrent]

psyker's kit is even more busted than zealot, they just have basically no DR

psyker does have very significant drawbacks with some aspects outside of DR

for example psyker has the worst dodge distance of any class

[gilded wraith]

Sadly it will take gen pop another 6 months to a year to stop calling vet overpowered.

[tall torrent]

veteran with power sword has longer dodge distance than psyker with DS4

I'm not joking

[atomic void]

Psykers having worse dodges than literal 10ft tanks is pretty funny

[marsh shard]

Yes and no. Psyker gets DR, psyker also has "i crit therefore i count as dodging", Psyker has peril instead of stam for block, Psyker has amazing toughness regen, etc...