veteran-class

[terse idol]

Fatshark kinda opened up Pandoras box when they allowed alot more weapons to be cross from the other 3 classes

And ogryn got the heavy stubber

[wind grotto]

ogryn powerfist when

[calm shard]

rumbler and GG aren't awful either

[wild vortex]

they are

[calm shard]

the main reason guns aren't good on ogryn is that the entire right side of their skill tree is geared towards only 2 of them

[broken spade]

zealot tree so undercooked they couldn't even finish writing the descriptions for them

a bunch of important talents are missing half their desc

[wild vortex]

Rumbler is actual dogshit damage and is just a CC tool, GG is a special sniper that's been completely outshined by Kicky and HS and has the literal longest reload in the game or close enough

[calm shard]

rumbler one shots reapers and bulwarks

bulwarks have to bleed to death admittedly but still

GG can one shot every single special 100% consistently at any range provided you actually hit them, which kickback can't do

GG also doesn't have to reload after every shot

[wild vortex]

yes, and then take 4.5s to reload after you're done

[calm shard]

how much time do you reckon you spend reloading a kickback if you're shooting 4 specials

reloading after every shot

shooting them 1 by 1

[wild vortex]

not that much because I kill one or two and suppress the rest enough to close gap and bash their skulls in

[calm shard]

probably about the same time

[wild vortex]

but mostly I use HS

which blows their heads off

[midnight wyvern]

space marine sized Thammer when

[calm shard]

specials are immune to suppression

[wild vortex]

oh you said specials, my brain thought gunners

[calm shard]

i mean even gunners the GG has higher suppression, and a blast radius that can stagger tightly clumped ones

[wild vortex]

why would I use a gun that locks me into a 4.5s long reload animation after just 4 shots

I'd rather take 1s reloads between shots

[terse idol]

Trade offs

I dunno

The ability to 1 shot 4 specials and then reload, or the ability to one shot 1 special and then reload and then one shot and reload

[hollow ibex]

Tbf kekback can definitely kill multiple specials in a single shot

[midnight wyvern]

yeah, kickback rocks, I dunno what this slander is

[tame lodge]

Twin Krourk spread is so bad FS should just give it ten thousand ammo and describe it as stubber made for suppression purposes

[terse idol]

With inconsitancy at range

There is no slander

[wild vortex]

idk man it just annoys me when people huff a truckload of copium and say "xyz trash weapon is fine". If a weapon is literally outshined in every single aspect of its existence by another, then it's NOT fine. It's okay to like shit weapons, just stop huffing the copium about it, it ain't that hard.

[terse idol]

The kickback is still very good

I mean, from what's been said it doesn't seem to be outshined

[wild vortex]

I'd dig that lmao

[terse idol]

You are taking the ability to fire 4 shots in a row over firing one shot and than having to reload after every shot

Lord forbid folks have abiiiit of nuance talking balance without extremes

[hollow ibex]

Kekback is still one of the best ogryn guns. I’m not sure why it’s even up to debate lol

[errant carbon]

Contrarians and people whose thought process terminates at "a poor craftsman blames his tools"

[errant carbon]

I didn't think it even was debated, not since the Kickback was majorly buffed like 18 months ago

[lethal geode]

got every shot counts with the plasma gun yay

[faint beacon]

Top scoring with mediocre weapons is a statement

The statement says “I’m actively handicapping myself and I’m still beating you”

It’s why it’s so damn funny maining lukewarm weapons and then picking up like Plasma, and shutting down the entire server

[tall torrent]

it's not 4.5s

there's a reload cancel trick for it

[faint beacon]

This plasma?

[tall torrent]

no, grenadier gauntlet

[faint beacon]

Oh, yeah I wouldn’t know I never use it enough

Honestly should make a build when I’m home seeing ever since I hit 1k on Vet I’m playing Ogryn more

[calm shard]

man left tree vet is so fun if only vet had MORE guns

[formal ice]

Which type? The crab walking one or the normal one?

[faint beacon]

MF needs more QOL stuff to it and it’s perfect imo

[calm shard]

the one where I have good aim and don't need to crab walk since I ain't SHIT

[faint beacon]

I just cope with it by using Camo and Tunnel Vision

[faint beacon]

I tend to run Demo team for my MF builds unless it’s a VOC build using it then its Stockpile

[tame lodge]

Gimme a reduced recoil when moving modifier and I'll never use the other keystones

[tall torrent]

I use both nade regen all the time

[tame lodge]

🗣️

[calm shard]

yeah I tried it to see if saving skill points and snagging the other red node on the right was worth it

it just isn't reliable enough in my experience

[faint beacon]

Tunnel Vision isn’t a god tier upgrade but it’s definitely noticeable when you take it with like

O4B or CK

Why I tend to run both Camo and Tunnel if possible

Pop someone’s skull off instantly get stamina and a good chunk of toughness

That and the VAs benefit heavily from MF finesse

[calm shard]

they aren't really finesse weapons tho

vigilant autogun gets the bulk of its value from Exe stance damage letting it one shot bodyshot shooters

and its absurdly high flak damage

infantry autoguns, lasguns, and laspistols are the finesse weapons

[gaunt anchor]

honestly

com,bat axe is the most fun I have had with a melee weapon ever

[calm shard]

helbore, plasma, bolter, vigilants, and braced autos just do damage

[cedar reef]

whats up with this ?

[raw needle]

banned

[cedar reef]

any serious answer

[narrow frost]

nothing you can do

[cedar reef]

are servers down or is this just my steam account?

[narrow frost]

its fatshark being dumb

just keep trying

[tall torrent]

Funnily enough
I think plasma kind of qualifies as a “finesse weapon”

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-confused-whuh-gif-10204381671363361516

[tall torrent]

Anything with a big enough d? value counts

[gaunt anchor]

so what even is finesse mean in dt?

[hollow ibex]

I have a big d. I guess my d is a finesse weapon

[faint beacon]

Finesse is literally just benefits off of Crit and Weakspot hits that’s the most summarized version of it

[hollow ibex]

[tame lodge]

Happens every now and then

[tall torrent]

There’re 2 kinds of veteran players

[tame lodge]

It's just to be annoying

Goddamn Error signing in

https://tenor.com/view/uncanny-emoji-angry-hakayaki-hakayaki-angry-emoji-gif-13101565263917230073

[hollow ibex]

Hey I can be both

[gaunt anchor]

got it

[faint beacon]

The Big Damage vs Elaborate Explanation

[tall torrent]

Great question

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1341810263317418035/Screenshot_2025-02-19_113449.png?ex=67c09430&is=67bf42b0&hm=f0fc5cfc264b07820e64db5db0b601d6a3407e212b8455d8735f2600ca4fe148&

[faint beacon]

DEADLY ACCURATE MY NICHE BLESSING GOAT 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[gaunt anchor]

uh

ogrynify it please

can't read good

[tall torrent]

Plasma does deal like 300 extra damage on weakspot compared to non-weakspot

Infantry lasgun (normally considered a finesse gun) only does like 200 extra

[tall torrent]

This is as dumbed down as it gets

[gaunt anchor]

oh no

[tall torrent]

Example
Ur attack deals 50 damage to body, 100 damage to weakspot, 150 damage to weakspot if crit

If u get +30%Wdmg, you’ll deal 50+(100-50)x130% =115 on weakspot

If u get +30%Wdmg and +100%CWdmg, you’ll deal 50+(150-50)x230% =280 on weakspot if crit

[gaunt anchor]

[faint beacon]

If Weakspot Crit it hits really hard basically

[gaunt anchor]

there we go!

I get it now

[faint beacon]

Though technically if gun already deals high damage it’ll do MORE with Finesse

Just some weapons benefit a bit more from it

Three off the top of my head that I can name are the Infantry Las, Vig Autos, and Knives

Basically finesse weapons to summarize in a way how they’re played is “aim for the karking head”

[tall torrent]

It’s also worth noting that

The same weapon’s same attack can have different finesse values against different armor types it hits

Ex: Rashad has massive crit & crit-weakspot modifier against carapace & unyielding

[gaunt anchor]

rashad my bellved

[faint beacon]

It’s also why Rending Strikes can sometimes (not on all weapons) can be a make a break with certain ones

[gaunt anchor]

is redning strikes good for axe?

[faint beacon]

Not needed but it’s like QOL

[tall torrent]

Not required

[faint beacon]

I know RS is pretty huge for VAs

[tall torrent]

It’s entirely separate from finesse

Rending is ADM boost

[gaunt anchor]

Alright I think I will put my build on lantern after this mission and send it over

[tall torrent]

Nah

Just send the build directly in screenshot

[gaunt anchor]

but I would need to take multiple??

[faint beacon]

That’s fine, if you have the ability to mod aka PC version there is a mod that decreases the size of the talent tree

[gaunt anchor]

alright will send it over

[brazen mural]

Nice!

[tall torrent]

No just ss the games lantern talent tree lol

[gaunt anchor]

So my weapons are

Rashad Combat Axe
Unyielding and Carapace
Headtaker and Decimator

Zarona Revolver
unyielding and Carapace
Surgical and Hand Cannon

Curios are
+2 stamina (I got a fake one)
16% toughness
17% thoughness

[tall torrent]

Ok u built it wrong

Badly

[gaunt anchor]

:(

whats wrong :(

[tall torrent]

Axe

[gaunt anchor]

oh its not decimator

brutal is on my axe

I forgot the names

[tall torrent]

Revolver

Talent tree as well

[gaunt anchor]

Okay what should I change then

[tall torrent]

Axe
Unarmored / elite
Carapace
Brutal momentum
Headtaker

Revolver
Unarmored / elite
Maniac
Point blank
Surgical / crucian roulette / run&gun

[gaunt anchor]

still upgrading my revlver rn

[tall torrent]

You don’t need unyielding for either

Carapace also doesn’t matter too much for revolver

[gaunt anchor]

I use the axe to like clear hordes a lot, so swap unyielding for unarmored?

[tropic notch]

What are these fake curios I hear about?

[tall torrent]

You technically don’t need unarmored

But it’s a big QoL boost

[gaunt anchor]

stamina curios can show +3 stamina, but if they are 400 and not 410+, its a +2 actually and it lies to you

[gaunt anchor]

got it, will use it and test out and if I feel I don't need it, will go to elite

[tall torrent]

As for talent tree

[gaunt anchor]

Why not hand cannon though? it seems really good

[tall torrent]

Why infiltrate

[tall torrent]

Irrelevant unless you rely on gun for crusher

[gaunt anchor]

I really like infiltrate and I wanna keep a balance on my vet of 1 Exe, one VoC and one infil

[gaunt anchor]

got it, I do have kraks and my axe

does the reload from weapon specalist like, reset crucian roulette?

[tall torrent]

What do u have for exe and VoC

[tall torrent]

Yes, partially

Crucian checks for how many rounds missing

[gaunt anchor]

both run axe

Exe uses Hellbore

VoC uses laspistol

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/984525651904176209/1327912507150565436/IMG_2005.png?ex=67c01de5&is=67becc65&hm=c075a5d25cb3bff07044d7432092393676d2ba09611fbb27b817a24cdc678e15&

Just run this

[gaunt anchor]

:(

but I wanna keep infiltrate, its been amazing for this run and stuff

also updated weapons

Axe is
Carapace unarmoured
headtaker brutal momentum

Revolver is
Maniaces
Elites
Point Blank
Crucian Roulette

[hollow ibex]

Based

[tall torrent]

Swap elite on revolver to unarmored

[gaunt anchor]

got it

also I was running the bleed instead cause I rarely use the agile one but that might be cause I am bad

and the bleed was noce for bosses that show up when I am out of kraks

[tall torrent]

Serrated blade is abysmal dogshit outside of 1 build that isn’t really worth running

Your axe does 2911 damage on unyielding with crit weakspot

[gaunt anchor]

oh damn, didn't know that.

[tall torrent]

There’s no reason to use serrated blade

[gaunt anchor]

got it

and reason to not run noone left behind?

[tall torrent]

It’s not worth it?

[gaunt anchor]

oh, I just figured it would be nice cause stun immunity, movement speed increase, pickup speed and the DR for teammates so they don't fold instantly afterwards

but got it.

[serene bough]

you dont want to build for skills that are for poor performance

[gaunt anchor]

Also why born leader instead of for the emperor?

[tall torrent]

Having an ability that only works when someone is down is

Definitely gonna be super helpful

[tall torrent]

FTE checks for ability’s activation and doesn’t wait for you to break stealth

[gaunt anchor]

oh ti doesn't, I thought it did.

thats annoying

[tall torrent]

So while normally they’re roughly equal in most game modes

Born leader is flat out better for infil and in havoc

U could also go KTHD in that row

[gaunt anchor]

All the others specify once infil breaks, thats

stupid

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t matter for non-havoc tbh

[gaunt anchor]

got it.
I have never noticed the impact of demo team though

I suppose thats cause there isn't like a notification about it so I just don't notice

[tall torrent]

What difficulty are u mainly playing atm

[gaunt anchor]

rn? based damnation

[vernal trench]

U only really notice it on havocs tbh

[gaunt anchor]

someeee auric at most.

[vernal trench]

Theres not enough stuff even on auric to actually use demo team much

[gaunt anchor]

and if I play havoc, I am only rank 5 and play zealot of havoc

[tall torrent]

Nah

CIVI spawns like almost 700 elites & specials

[gaunt anchor]

huh, just noticed tactival awareness is only specalists. thats weird

[vernal trench]

Yea majority of the time it wont i mean

[faint beacon]

You’ll notice it on Havoc and Auric with the sheer Level of specials and elites

[tall torrent]

Majority of the time it’s noticeable

[gaunt anchor]

got it. I do rarely play auric because I don't quite feel confident enough to try consistently

[faint beacon]

HISTG elite packs are common

[vernal trench]

Yea but only in havocs can u get all ur grenades back instantly decent amount of times

[faint beacon]

That’s where you get your Demo Team value

[vernal trench]

Works best when u get armored games

Thats when demo team really shines

[gaunt anchor]

I thinkkkk for nowwww until I do more aurics and stuff, I will put on Suprise attack

[vernal trench]

What actually is ur build

[orchid hemlock]

yeah generally I dont like infil on vet

[gaunt anchor]

infiltrate weapon specalists veteran

[orchid hemlock]

unless im doing a funny knife build with a shotgun

[tall torrent]

Nah

Not worth

[gaunt anchor]

this was what it was before vets help

[gaunt anchor]

but its like 30% damage increase??

[calm shard]

ah yes the theoretically good damage boost thats held back by randomly being half the duration of every other damage boost

[vernal trench]

U need +30% weakpost damage

[vernal trench]

5 seconds

[gaunt anchor]

using this now

[faint beacon]

Very short window that and it’s only 5 seconds vs a lot of other talents that are passive

[vernal trench]

Yea thats good

[gaunt anchor]

Now I just gotta

get good curios now

[errant carbon]

Would actually be interesting to pull up old scoreboards and look at special+elite kills per minute, and somehow add teammate kills / coherency time—you would need 20 per minute to (on average) put Demo Team on par with Demo Stockpile

[vernal trench]

Idk how much that 25% weapon swap speed help

[gaunt anchor]

I am thinkingggg

2 +17% toughness
1 +3 stamina?

[wild vortex]

it's REALLY good on WS

[vernal trench]

But might be better going down middle at the top if u want better survivability

[wild vortex]

especially when you're using a clunkier ranged like DB Shotgun

[calm shard]

Power DI just does this because it keeps track of how often each of your talents procs

[vernal trench]

That 30% toughness per elite or specialist kill will save ur life a lot fo times

[orchid hemlock]

you missed one of the bets nodes in the entire tree 😔

[vernal trench]

Is it that clunky?

[calm shard]

so you can see how many times demo team procs, and then jsut use mission time for stockpile

[gaunt anchor]

Fun fact, I accidentally put a hellbore on my weapon specialist build

I wanted to die

[faint beacon]

Recip is pretty insane ngl

[vernal trench]

Lfmao

[wild vortex]

compared to say revolver? yeah. The difference with and without the swap speed node is noticeable as hell

[errant carbon]

For me I just take Demo Team because Tactical Awareness goes in every single build and it's only one more point from there

[tall torrent]

5s uptime on the longest CD veteran ability

Not worth it

[vernal trench]

Ah

[tall torrent]

Just run the build I sent above

[gaunt anchor]

Okay here is the improved version

Curios will eventually be
2x 17% toughness
1x +3 Stamina

Weapons are

Rashad Combat Axe
Carapace
Unarmoured

Headtaker
Brutal Momentum

Zarona Quickdraw Stub Revolver
Maniacs
Unarmoured

Point Blank
Crucian Roulette

[vernal trench]

Dont pick suppression immunity

[tropic notch]

@tall torrent what do you run on the combat axe?

[tall torrent]

I would also highly recommend health over stamina
Veteran doesn’t need stamina curios outside of niche builds (knife, deadshot)

[tall torrent]

Unarmored
Carapace
Brutal momentum
Headtaker

[gaunt anchor]

oh alright got it. WIll try and get a +21% health

[gaunt anchor]

why not? vet had it on his thing for me to use

[tall torrent]

It’s for his revolver

[vernal trench]

Oh

[tropic notch]

No unyielding?

[vernal trench]

Yea dont listen to me i dont use revolver

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it matters too much

[gaunt anchor]

I like the revolver

what should I be running for my curio addons?

I have rn

gunner resit
max health
max toughness

[tall torrent]

Sprint efficiency
Extra dockets
Gunner resist
CDR
Extra toughness

[gaunt anchor]

extra dockets?

[tall torrent]

Hell yea

[gaunt anchor]

but I don't need dockets, I need diamantine

[surreal gust]

Extra dockets doesn’t hurt though does it

You can score some cosmetics if nothing else

[tall torrent]

Diamantine is ez u just speedrun damnation and memorize loot spawns

Or do havoc

[gaunt anchor]

I just constantly burn though my diamantine supplies

took me less then a day to burn through the like 4k you get from the event

[tall torrent]

You only need ~1.4k diamantine to make a gold 500 power weapon

[surreal gust]

Dayum

[gaunt anchor]

I eventually wanna have at least a maxxed gold for every gun in the game so I am prepared for anything

[wild vortex]

It's nice to be at the point where I kinda don't give a damn about resources

[surreal gust]

Same, I just want it so I can bring whatever the hell I want

[gaunt anchor]

I think it would be cool if they added more cosmetics you can buy with dockets tbh

[surreal gust]

I wish they were a bit more varied, it’s kinda just reskins of the same set

[grand perch]

the legendary tier vet armour for dockets thats just white is really odd

almost never see anyone run it

[tame lodge]

Oh I had a perfect clip for it

[trail vector]

What's a good set up for the helbore if I want the charge time, deadeye and surgical to line up nicely?

[grand perch]

you mean deadshot?

[wild vortex]

Say path, do you have a Helbore build I could try if I wanna inflict suffering on myself and my team

[tame lodge]

I don't have the clip rn

[trail vector]

Probably mean deadshot

[grand perch]

amogus

[grand perch]

anything weapon specialist

[tame lodge]

Like I literally queued and got this 3 guys wearing the recent cosmetics

[grand perch]

but not agile engagament the actually good talent for helbore

[wild vortex]

WS on Helbore? Not Focus Target?

[grand perch]

you said you want your teammates to suffer

and yourself

[wild vortex]

I meant more as a side effect of me sucking

[grand perch]

oh

[tame lodge]

But you're right
That or the sand one are rare sights

[grand perch]

well what i use you find in the video description here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF7nbK2mI9g

[sleek garden]

I use some tan and green drab one from the commissary

I mean the non real money one

Whatever it is

[grand perch]

except i switched to falter instead of hotshot on helbore and sunder instead of BM on psword

[grand perch]

a classic, man of culture

[sleek garden]

It fits the 5 dollar helmet I got in the paid store sort of

[gaunt anchor]

So question

born leader anI usew the infil and smoke penance acheivement

[sleek garden]

I wish the bits on the helmet didn't cleave

[gaunt anchor]

oops

[sleek garden]

what

[trail vector]

Away from the game at the moment but want to mess with ES and MF and try out the helbore all at the same time, I'm sure that'll go smoothly.
I cap out at auric heresy so I don't have to worry about having a "correct" build, but I'm just curious if there's a specific helbore mark that lines up perfectly with surgical and added crit from perks or deadshot

[gaunt anchor]

meant to split thjat up

[grand perch]

has anyone ever been as far as want to decide to do more look like

[gaunt anchor]

born leader and infil max toguhness given when used

does that spread to allies

[tall torrent]

I don’t play helbore

[grand perch]

mk IV has slowest charge time so you get more surgical stacks naturally. less shots means less stamina drain from deadshot

[tall torrent]

Yes

[gaunt anchor]

Awesome

[grand perch]

mk IV has the icky bayonet though, definitely a hard one to use

[tame lodge]

Can't be good at everything

[grand perch]

if it did a lot more isngle target damage than stab bayonets, it'd be okay. but you typically dont even oneshot snipers

[grand perch]

helbore profits a lot from mf and exec at least

[trail vector]

Cool. I might just mess around with what feels good, I need to unlock all the marks from fresh anyway

Just wanted an idea of what I'm getting into since a charging gun plays so differently than what I've been playing.

[gaunt anchor]

byt for vet armour, I use the ones you get from the smoke and infil penances

because I think they look awesome

[grand perch]

this'll always be ma favorite

or, y'know

[tame lodge]

Because it has better cleave 6.5 instead of 3 and a slightly better damage distribution

[calm shard]

reported on sight

[grand perch]

report aways, its local only

[grand perch]

the cleave is virtually meaningless

saying that as someone who uses it more often than anyone, probably

[terse idol]

Would it get better with hotshot?

[tame lodge]

I mean, it would basically double

[grand perch]

damage and the slowness is the problem, those dont get fixed

cant really spam it like stab bayo

[tame lodge]

The thing is that the damage distribution is just eh

3 and 5 will deal like 500 to the first target then 50 to the second

4 will deal 400 to the first and 150 to the second

[gaunt anchor]

I wish fatshark would add more hairstyles and also a like kill tracdker on your stuff for fun

man I do not like crucian roulette

back to surgical for me

[tall torrent]

Play run&gun then

[faint beacon]

If you’re running Revolver

Crucian imo is better on Agri

If it’s Zarona it’s Surgical

[tall torrent]

Point blank better than both

[tall torrent]

Mine rn

[gaunt anchor]

Sadly can't snag any of the usual shop stuff cause no money

[tame lodge]

We do be freemaxxing

🗣️

[tropic notch]

I really wish we could change the colors on our weapons and such

My vet has actually matches with the base green weapons

Well some of them

[drifting verge]

@fading zinc I saw that

[thorn lark]

Spesh mareen

[terse idol]

Love northernlion

[tall torrent]

I like the black jacket + kasrkin armor combo

[drifting verge]

Necrumdan Patral

[fading zinc]

Holy shit that’s a lot of strike teams

[faint beacon]

Im putting you in the crystal Smudgels

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/punisher-the-punisher-wait-no-panicking-gif-22139346

[faint beacon]

Punishment for not being good at Veteran yet

[gaunt anchor]

What are some good ways to reduce the health damage you take from the like break through?

other then you know, not taking dmg

[austere mica]

For toughness bleed in melee?

Just having more toughness

[tall torrent]

Speak English

[gaunt anchor]

When you take damage hen you have toughness and some of it breaks through the toughness into your actual health even when you still have toughness is what I mean

sorry for putting it poorly

[hollow ibex]

Yeah having more toughness

[gaunt anchor]

Okay got it. didn't know that

[terse idol]

Oh so you're trying to get on overwatch?

[gaunt anchor]

nah already did with vets help

just in general

[terse idol]

Okieokie

[tall torrent]

That’s melee health bleed through

[terse idol]

Wouldn't having more hp help though?

[gaunt anchor]

oh okay okay

[tall torrent]

You avoid that by having 100% of your toughness

It’s not related to having more toughness or more health

U just need to have full toughness

[terse idol]

Or does having a high% of toughness reduce chip damage to hp from not being at full toughness?

[gaunt anchor]

oh I see. the bleed through constantly has been an issue for me.

cause I am bad

[terse idol]

What curios are you running?

[tall torrent]

Kill things, get toughness, keep toughness at 100%

[cloud thunder]

Don’t get hit

[terse idol]

(Don't get hit and maybe run 1x hp curioo)

[vernal trench]

gunners or shooters cant touch ur health nless ur toughness is entirely broken

[odd sparrow]

triple toughness curios with iron will is decently tanky thoi quite like it main downside is that bursters can oneshot you

[gaunt anchor]

I have a 17% tough, 16% tough and +2 stamina

[austere mica]

Reducing sources of shitty chip damage like gunners is helpful

[gaunt anchor]

Need to change stamina for health

[terse idol]

You might be better with 2x toughness, 1x hp and that should mitigate how much chip damage you're taking overal

Or well

[gaunt anchor]

But the armoury and buying hundreds of curios from melk has failed me

[terse idol]

How much chip damage will affect your hp total

[vernal trench]

are u talking about in general or are u doing a penance

[terse idol]

In general

[gaunt anchor]

In general

I have the no health dmg penance and overwatch penance

[vernal trench]

dont get hit in melee by little guys

thats the main way u avoid chip damage

[gaunt anchor]

I was asking for help outside of just 'don't take dmg' lmao

[vernal trench]

ah

[tall torrent]

U have a Rashad you really should not be having toughness problems in melee

[cloud thunder]

Block and dodge.

[gaunt anchor]

I assume not taking damage means I survive longer you know

[gaunt anchor]

It's probably gunners ans stuff that have been a pain then

[vernal trench]

if u got shout just keep spamming it and ull be practicalyl invincible

[terse idol]

Taking hp will help overal

[vernal trench]

dont charge out in open until gunners and shooters are dead first

[terse idol]

*cough

Besides just playing better

You'll have more total hp to play with

Even if you take chip damage from melee

[cloud thunder]

Slide if in open, dodge while shooting

[tall torrent]

Sprint & slide

[gaunt anchor]

I think shouts CD should be increased and Infiltrates reduced tbh

[vernal trench]

If they wanan mess with it then yea

But its fine as it is rn

maybe shouts too op but infiltrate is fine as is

[cloud thunder]

You would think so

[gaunt anchor]

Shout is very strong and Infiltrate being the longest cooldown wise is a little weird to me tbh

[cloud thunder]

Yet I’m seeing so many pug vets dying

[tall torrent]

That’s not gonna fix your “getting hit too much” problem lol

[vernal trench]

I mean thats just pubs in general

[cloud thunder]

Just saying

Anything is strong in the right hands

[vernal trench]

u can have 4 book zealots and still wipe

Ask mister e about that

[terse idol]

The 4 zealots when they all use chorus up at once and then die

[vernal trench]

Na they somehow all died to one burster

[gaunt anchor]

Ye of course you can, but just in a vacuum I feel like shout is largely better then infiltrate while having a shorter CD

[vernal trench]

Right at the very end of archivum

[cloud thunder]

The only thing you can’t control is people shooting pox on you and instantly killing you knocking you off the map

[terse idol]

Honestly that's like

[broken spade]

sorry but shout won't be nerfed because if they touch it, a thousand vets are gonna review bomb the game again just like those times the power sword got nerfed

[terse idol]

Not too far fetched loool

[vernal trench]

yea it is better generally

[cloud thunder]

Wanna see something BS? @vernal trench

[terse idol]

All of them use book at the same time, get hit by burster because nobody is hitting the burster

[tall torrent]

Cuz it is
And it’s not even because the ability itself is super strong
It’s because veteran’s talent tree hard funnels you into going middle

[vernal trench]

Just like dueling sword

[terse idol]

No chorus cd

[broken spade]

exactly

game will literally die if they balance it

[terse idol]

They should nerf it anyways

No it wouldn't

[cloud thunder]

https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerFancyBearDuDudu-KGVzgzd3bJjPOUyF

[terse idol]

Me as I take every joke seriously

Woops

[cloud thunder]

That guy loved shooting pox on me whole game

[terse idol]

[gaunt anchor]

So true

[vernal trench]

See thats why i hear a pox burster and i stay the fuck away from it

[cloud thunder]

Just watch the clip

Tell me that’s not pain

[vernal trench]

Get to the very back of the line and let my teamates blow it up on themselves

[terse idol]

Honestly the funniest part is that the majority of the playerbase plays John darktide

So you ain't wrong that it'll cause a dent in the playerbase

Or I should say, vet bias

[cloud thunder]

Was carrying the entire game only for them to throw at the end

[broken spade]

yeah i was half joking
they really should rebalance things but the vets reviewbombing after a nerf did actually happen

there is a nonzero chance it'll happen again

[wild vortex]

the other day I actually sat and looked at the review bombing on Steam and my mind was absolutely blown at the oceanic level of salt on display

people are fucking morons

[vernal trench]

Yea cuz thats all they know how to ppay

Play

[broken spade]

people would burn you alive if you dared to suggest 7 power sword swings was too strong

[vernal trench]

U got 3 abilities and everyone only ever runs one

[terse idol]

I feel like at this stage of the game, if the DS/VoC are nerfed that there's enough vets that don't know how to build DS won't know to review bomb

[errant carbon]

Buffdivers won, nothing is ever gonna get nerfed again

[terse idol]

I mean

I like helldivers rn

Dude

[hearty panther]

They also review bombed the game when Survivalist got nerfed down from being 'the best aura in the game' to 'still the best aura in the game, but slightly nerfed'

[tall torrent]

I wonder what my guide will get rated as

[terse idol]

This is why I keep saying you literally bring up the same negative rhetoric

When I see you

And I'm the contrarion

[vernal trench]

Yea

[tall torrent]

[vernal trench]

Classic case of skill issue

[terse idol]

Ultimatum getting nerfed because it had an unintended use case with siege ready armour

Boom

It depends what you nerf frankly

[vernal trench]

I mean thats fine even if its nerfed

[terse idol]

Voc getting nerfed will probably

[errant carbon]

Nothingburger nerf that didn't address why it was overpowered and still made buffdivers mald

[terse idol]

It still is

[vernal trench]

If anything we should be grateful arrowhead didnt nerf ultimatums damage into a grenade pistol

[terse idol]

You have 2 bullets max

In that thing

Anyways

Helldivers is one of the most divisive popular games rn

[vernal trench]

Yea u can run anything

[terse idol]

And Arrowhead has certainly moved away from its hd1 roots

Which is their own direction

You're okay to dislike the direction

You're valid

[vernal trench]

If they never fucked up their game we would be sitting at constant 100k players

[surreal gust]

Would’ve preferred a similar HD1 art style for HD2, but meh

[vernal trench]

na

Its cinematic as fuck

[hearty panther]

Definitely wouldn't tbh

[surreal gust]

I’m just bored of hyperrealistic artstyles

[cloud thunder]

Nah it wouldn’t

[vernal trench]

It only dropped off so hard cuz of nerfs

[cloud thunder]

It would be split between sm2 and darktide

[vernal trench]

Even when playstation drama was going on the playerbase was over 100k

[terse idol]

Like, all I'm saying is like

[hearty panther]

It dropped off hard because it blew up as a feature of the month game. That's what happens with every game that cuts through popular discourse and becomes 'the new thing' (TM)

[terse idol]

I like helldivers now

It has a good mix of

[vernal trench]

Na it stayed over 100k for a long while

[terse idol]

Cinema, power tripping and abit of challenge

[errant carbon]

Nerfdivers and Buffdivers didn't do much to overall player count, there were little spikes for each little content patch and a big spike for the big content patch in December

[vernal trench]

It dropped off hard from 400k yea

[vernal trench]

nerfdivers did a lot

[terse idol]

Nerf divers made me quit

[vernal trench]

Just look at how much playerbase dropped over the monthe cuz of it and everyone getting tired

[vernal trench]

Same

[terse idol]

Im a railgun main

[vernal trench]

i know so many people that quit cuz of it

[terse idol]

Those nerfs sucked

Because it was bugged on release

[vernal trench]

Were talking people that played so much theyre level 150 a month after the level got increased

And they quit cuz of the nerfs

[errant carbon]

And Buffdivers made me and my friend group quit, the game had lost all challenge unless you consciously don't interact with most of the content

[terse idol]

Like, again, you be preaching to a choir

[vernal trench]

Na it wasnt

[surreal gust]

But isn’t 13 railgun headshots to kill a bile titan fun, and balanced

[hearty panther]

Helldivers literally reintroduced bugs to the game to appease the bitchy playerbase lmao

[vernal trench]

Railgun got nerfed because ps5 host bug

[errant carbon]

Predator bugs were fun but they're gone again

[terse idol]

Yeah

[terse idol]

And they'll be back

Again this is why

It's so hard to balance hd2 rn

[vernal trench]

Predators was pretty fun tbh

[terse idol]

People have varying needs for their perception of fun with the game

[vernal trench]

It felt like a fraction of how bugs once were on a helldive

[errant carbon]

Reintroduced janky flamethrower mechanics that were objectively a nerf, but framed as a buff, and everyone cheered

[cloud thunder]

Game had a ton of bugs on release

[hearty panther]

Genuinely.

[terse idol]

Im having a great time now, I even defended the nerfs prior but hated them, and resented the game
Now I'm playing again, and having a blast

[terse idol]

So what

[vernal trench]

Buff bots accuracy and frame it as "not letting stray rockets hit you"

Meanwhile u get 2 tapped by walkers

[terse idol]

Factory striders when they look at you for .2 seconds

[hearty panther]

I don't think Helldivers 2 is a bad game. I still recommend it to people who haven't played it yet. But if you've played it for more than, idk, fifty or a hundred hours, you're honestly done. The skill ceiling is shockingly low if you want it to keep you engaged. It's the perfect game to have a conversation over and dedicate less than half of your mental faculties to.

[terse idol]

Yeah

I can agree

[vernal trench]

Its a really good game right now as it is

But i got nothing left to do on there

[errant carbon]

Good thing you can one-shot them with RR

[vernal trench]

So i just dont play much

[terse idol]

I think there's only so much regarding skill at the end of the day

[terse idol]

Uh

No?

[surreal gust]

You can, it is possible

[terse idol]

I mean i guess if you hit an eye shot,never managed it though

[errant carbon]

Yes, one hit to the eye, belly door, or IIRC a spot on the foot

[hearty panther]

RR oneshots Striders, yes.

[terse idol]

Me as I throw all my orbitals on the striders to learn this

[vernal trench]

I remember when factory striders were super rare when they first dropped

[hearty panther]

In fact there isn't a single enemy in the game that the RR doesn't trivialize.

[vernal trench]

I managed to find 4 before threy became common

[terse idol]

I will admit rr is too strong probably

[errant carbon]

If you miss the eye and have no angle on the belly, a second RR shot to the head will kill it

[hearty panther]

Nothing in the game pushes you to try any new tactic that isn't just "lol i shot a rocket at it"

[terse idol]

Not that everyone picks an rr in bots but, eh sure it could meet a nerf

[terse idol]

That is the same as always let's be fair

[hearty panther]

And with them flattening the output of every weapon to a new baseline, the meta is "Whatever has the most ammo"

[errant carbon]

RR is especially too strong compared to other AT support weapons, but again because the Buffdiver mentality had taken over and led to review bombing, it has remained this overpowered for this long

[terse idol]

Crushers when you just, shot the leg

And then mag dump the leg

Now its

Headshot the crusher

[vernal trench]

It was pretty dog before it got buffed

Used to be autocannon for every bot user

[terse idol]

Yeah

That is true

Like, if anything alot of the buffs were to make everything useful for better or worse

[vernal trench]

Watching this kenndrink guys stream and he has no idea how to remotely play infiltrate

Its so funny

[terse idol]

There are still stand outs but it's not bad

[errant carbon]

That was more because of Bile Titan having a broken-ass head hitbox, people not knowing about Charger Behemoth upper spine hitbox (or just stun nade & OPS/500/shoot the ass), and Bots simply not demanding anything above AP4

[terse idol]

And this is why helldivers is so divisive

I mean because bots just shoot you

[vernal trench]

Yea bile titans were so broken before its funny

U can drop 3 500kgs on them

They will keep walking at u

[terse idol]

Compared to a fully melee enemy besides spewers

Who I hate

[errant carbon]

The thing is, there is a way to appease all sides: make D10 harder. But because of the Buffdiver mentality again, they just can't/won't do that.

[terse idol]

And eventually once the illuminate get their full roster

[terse idol]

So

[vernal trench]

Yea super helldive is too easy rn

[terse idol]

What?

Like

I don't know

I'm not one to gatekeep difficilty

[vernal trench]

Its not gatekeeping its just too easy

[errant carbon]

Difficulties should gatekeep themselves

[terse idol]

The higher difficulty just means a more cinematic experience but sure

[surreal gust]

Yeah diff 9/10 are really easy

[hearty panther]

The reality is that the community was mainlining a bunch of information from the most dipshitted YouTubers you could possibly imagine peddling some of the most incorrect takes one can conceive of, despite all the correct information being freely available in multiple resources.

[surreal gust]

They also mean significantly more rewards

[errant carbon]

This too

[terse idol]

Its easy for us, you can also just have a team of people who pick the wrong gear

[vernal trench]

They nerfed the enemies and buffed the weapons so much super helldive is super easy

They shouldnt have nerfed the enemies

[terse idol]

I'm conflicted about all this

[vernal trench]

Super helldive right now is so easy u can run off the entire game and do every objective entirely by urself

[errant carbon]

There were some ways in which enemies could have been changed to make the game more fun while retaining difficulty, but it's been nerfs to enemies for a long time and very little in the way of buffs. Gunships are the most extreme example of this

[vernal trench]

It was significantly harder in helldive before super helldive dropped

[vernal trench]

Yea

[hearty panther]

D7 at launch is harder than D10 today.

[vernal trench]

And the damage they do is so much lower

[vernal trench]

Maybe not 7

Probably 8-9

[hearty panther]

No, genuinely 7 lmao

[vernal trench]

I know if helldive from when before superhelldive dropped existed now

It would be the equivalent of tier 15 right now

[hearty panther]

You used to need multiple AT shots to take out a Bile Titan and they would spawn in multiples. Now you need one AT shot to kill a Bile Titan and you MIGHT get two if you're completely stupid and ignore them so that they clump up.

And this isn't even accounting for buffs to the player (ie. your actual Helldiver)

[vernal trench]

☝️

There used to be constantly 3 bile titans on ur ass on helldive at all times

Now ur lucky if u find 2 of them

[hearty panther]

That you can stim before you take damage was a tremendous buff and a huge boon to the player who knows what to do and when damage is coming in to stim in advance.

[calm shard]

better times

actually had to play as a team to take care of groups like that

and having a good loadout was important

[hearty panther]

You genuinely should never die in Helldivers unless you run out of stims or are ragdolled directly into a rock and die.

[surreal gust]

HD now is a game of killing any potential threat before it spirals, which was the case before, but it was way harder to do that

[vernal trench]

Or u get one shot by impact cuz its bullshit

[hearty panther]

Yeah but the number of one shots are incredibly small now.

[vernal trench]

Yea most of the ones i encountered are from impalers

Instant kill

[hearty panther]

We are tankier, have more ammo, stronger weapons, better armor, better stims, better strategems, more weapons, lower cooldowns, and the enemies are all nerfed for health an quantity.

So yeah. D10 today is about what D7 used to be.

[calm shard]

and the gap between strong weapons and weak weapons is the largest it has ever been

[vernal trench]

7 was pretty easy tbf

8 at most imo

[hearty panther]

If you were playing at launch and actually sweat through Difficulty 9, you already peaked and Helldivers has literally nothing to offer you.

[errant carbon]

Even those are unclear whether it's just engine jank causing you to ragdoll into the fucking stratosphere because the physics engine and the netcode can't figure out what the fuck happened during that lost packet (or whatever), this kind of thing happens a lot when running past dead enemies that leave persistent "climbable" terrain

[terse idol]

Well if anything because the game was worst balanced

[vernal trench]

Not launch

It peaked when patrols were tripled

thats when helldive bugs was actually hard

[terse idol]

Although I will admit

[calm shard]

I would honestly argue the game balance in HD2 right now is the worst it has been since the launch of the game

[vernal trench]

Dont u just love helldivers 2

[terse idol]

The rr needs to focus more on the support aspect

Same as all backpacks

[surreal gust]

It’s fun, but man the game is easy

[vernal trench]

Nq

Na

[hearty panther]

I mean balance quips aside, if you did win D9 dives at launch, you are still at a skill level higher than what HD2 can provide presently.

[terse idol]

Disagree

[vernal trench]

U can use any weapon and do really well now

[hearty panther]

Like imagine if they just deleted Aurics from DarkTide right now.

That's HD2 today lmao

[vernal trench]

U cant at any other point of the game

[calm shard]

The gap between good and bad weapons in the current state of Helldivers 2 is enormous

[vernal trench]

Havocs*

aurics are easy havocs arent

[hearty panther]

Shit, why not both.

[terse idol]

Imo most weapons now are useable

[calm shard]

One guy with Crossbow+RR can turn the game off for the other 3 people if they're competent

[errant carbon]

RR was given programmable ammo, so as a hybrid it should be expected to be "pretty good" at both roles, but currently is mediocre as an AOE weapon and the hands-down best AT support launcher

[vernal trench]

sounds about right

[calm shard]

It's like playing Warframe again

[terse idol]

I mean it

[vernal trench]

Na

[terse idol]

Wasn't used ever for aoe

And now that the auto cannon has flak

[vernal trench]

Helldivers 2 has always been a game u can solo

[terse idol]

It even has less of a focus on AOE

[calm shard]

Most weapons were usable before the 60 day patch, but now they can't keep up with the Purifier, and Crossbow

[terse idol]

I disagree

It depends on the faction for 1

[vernal trench]

Crossbow really isnt that good

[terse idol]

Shotguns dominate termanids

[vernal trench]

Its just really good for closing bug holes and bot fabs

[terse idol]

Punishers, slugger is decroited abit but has stagger

[errant carbon]

AH also seems to have decided that the Spear's lock-on is not a crippling drawback, but a major asset / skill floor raise that needs to be counterbalanced accordingly

[calm shard]

One shotgun does. The Breaker Incendiary

[terse idol]

No

[calm shard]

and every other shotgun is living in its shadow

[vernal trench]

not anymore

[terse idol]

The regular Punisher slaps

Especially during predator strain

[hearty panther]

BI still trivializes bugs

[errant carbon]

Punisher and Cookout knockback went way up in value during Predator bugs

[calm shard]

If they didn't nerf it it's still far and away the strongest shotty in the game

[vernal trench]

Yea

[calm shard]

Cookout is the only real competition it has ever seen

[vernal trench]

But they nerfed it hard

[terse idol]

The gap between weapons is closer now imo

[hearty panther]

They took two mags away. That was barely a nerf.

[calm shard]

What did they do

[hearty panther]

No number changes, just less ammo.

And yes, the playerbase review bombed for it.

[gaunt anchor]

getting real close to 3 more penances for vet

[terse idol]

They do need to focus on nerfing damage more but carefully, again AH is battling the former rhetoric of your support weapons being your main weapons and I feel like many of the balance changes now are a result of the changing mentality

[faint beacon]

I’d rather everything be useable vs

[errant carbon]

"I'm never gonna logistically recover from this" said Sickle/Breaker Incel/Ultimatum, etc. with Resupply pod, Supply Pack, and big pile of POI ammo in the background

[terse idol]

Although with some exceptions like the RR

[faint beacon]

Get kicked for even thinking of using something different

[calm shard]

Everything was usable before 60 day patch, but now even mid tiers struggle to keep up with people running top of the line shit

[terse idol]

Not really

[calm shard]

That was my experience on launch of that update, and it's why I uninstalled the game

[hearty panther]

When they revealed they were giving the Revolver AP4, that's when I gave up.

I gave up a second time when the full patch was released and shoulder-held rocket launchers now did more damage than the Orbital Precision Strike

[calm shard]

OPS only getting its direct hit damage buffed while 500KG had its effective blast radius increased by like 4 times

When they used to be sidegrades to eachother

[vernal trench]

@cloud thunder im watching that stream of the guy and u

[calm shard]

Now 500KG is just objectively better than OPS

[vernal trench]

Its so frustrating watching that stream dude

[surreal gust]

Heavy piercing on a sidearm is just absurd

[cloud thunder]

Yep

[terse idol]

Well besides the reload but sure

I just also think

[vernal trench]

He has no idea what hes doing

[terse idol]

OPS was just a low level alternative

[tall torrent]

another 400 hours of playtime to rashad

[cloud thunder]

He came back after a 1.5 year break so I was trying to solo carry

[gaunt anchor]

I love getting trapper netted through a pillar then crusher slammed guys

[surreal gust]

They were originally designed to be sidegrades

[terse idol]

Considering many just went away when you got better stratagems

Well

[calm shard]

everything was

[terse idol]

That's not how it went saddly

[errant carbon]

They were so into their firearm autism, then randomly gave a revolver same damage and higher pen than a DMR, just because. Why doesn't that DMR use that cartridge?

[terse idol]

We just have to wait

To see if they'll buff it

[vernal trench]

1.5 years break makes sense

[calm shard]

60 day patch is when that went out the window and they started making things objective upgrades

[terse idol]

Well becuase different mag size

[surreal gust]

That’s the problem, we’ve overshot and now we need to come back down

[terse idol]

I really don't like

[calm shard]

like the buffs to the liberator penetrator making it objectively better than standard liberator

[hearty panther]

The OPS was always a top tier Strategem, players were just terrified of having to actually aim their throw so would default to the significantly worse, far less flexible, much longer cooldown Railgun Strike

[calm shard]

god railgun strike

[terse idol]

Sell

Well

Besides damage..

[hearty panther]

LibPen can take out two gunships per magazine now lmfao

[terse idol]

[calm shard]

I argued so much trying to convince people that was the worst stratagem in the game

[errant carbon]

AP4 for Constitution when

[calm shard]

and I still believe it is

[terse idol]

Libpen still only has 60 damage

[tall torrent]

as someone who never got into helldivers 2 because I can't force myself to enjoy 3rd person shooters I have no idea what yall are talking about

[cloud thunder]

The pugs in that game went down 11 times. I went down once because guy shot pox on me IN a rager horde against the wall then the same guy shot a pox again on me knocking me off the map 💀

[surreal gust]

What about EMS strike

[terse idol]

Em's strike has always been decroited because of the stun grenade

Lmao

[calm shard]

actually a good stratagem held back by weird interactions with heavies

[terse idol]

And the ems mortar

[calm shard]

and also yeah stun grenades

[surreal gust]

And the mortar

[calm shard]

EMS strike is still distinctly okay

[surreal gust]

And map hazards

[calm shard]

especially when combined with AoE damage sources like fire

[errant carbon]

Orbital Smoke is pretty bad too, especially compared to Eagle Smoke

[faint beacon]

Gas is pretty helpful on Bug Front

[terse idol]

Again, helldivers is in a no way to satisfy everyone situation

But I mean after talking to yall yeah, some things are too strong

And there needs to be more distinct variances between

Like eats and rr

Support backpack nobody helps to reload

Because you don't need to

[surreal gust]

It needs nerfs, but then we’ll get back to the negative opinions

[terse idol]

Its tough!

[errant carbon]

Just make higher difficulties more difficult, and middle difficulties more intense/exciting somehow, and there will be something for everyone. The only thing holding them back are the people insisting the higher difficulties shouldn't get any harder.

[terse idol]

Because we're recovering from pretty bad nerfs prior

That made like 3 weapons max viable

[surreal gust]

What we need is to stop scaling and start flattening out

[calm shard]

hey rq

[terse idol]

And the "your primary weapon is actually supposed to be your secondary to your support weapon"

[hearty panther]

They did flatten out. This is flattened out lmao.

[calm shard]

I see you're in the helldivers discord

I want you to find a single update in helldivers 2 history that had more nerfs than buffs

[hearty panther]

They flattened everything out and then jacked up the output simultaneously.

[surreal gust]

I am not because that place is the worst

[calm shard]

since the patch notes updates channel there keeps them all archived and easy to search

[terse idol]

I've ran both sides of the nerf/buff train on the discord

[hearty panther]

Which is why the meta is "Whatever has the most ammo in its class"

[vernal trench]

Thats why u never go to push bursters in pubs

[terse idol]

[vernal trench]

Not unless u know ur team is trustworthy

[terse idol]

If anything everything started weak

[cloud thunder]

Didn’t have a choice. I was on the edge

[errant carbon]

As I pointed out before in the HD2 discord, we are reduced to debating over whether the game's highest difficulty should even be difficult

[terse idol]

And then everything got buffed because of the backlash

Like you can see my chat history there too

[calm shard]

you obviously haven't paid much attention to the patch notes or games history if you're saying this though

[terse idol]

I've discussed things for a while

[hearty panther]

"DAE hate how they die so much on 'Suicide Mission' Difficulty?" idk man i think the name was a hint

[vernal trench]

Unlucky thne

[terse idol]

Because I'm making a hyperbolic statement and I shouldn't have because of my feelings

[cloud thunder]

It’s all good.

I just did duos with my friend after that

[terse idol]

When my feelings make my fingers type a certain way it's not good

[calm shard]

actually I guess if you're a console player a lot of the precision weapons wouldn't be as good

[terse idol]

What!

[cloud thunder]

Duos actually smoother than pubs 💀

[terse idol]

I mean i ain't ill be honest lol

[vernal trench]

Anything us smoother than pubs

[terse idol]

Well and the amr scope being broken

For a while

Uncentered slightly to the top right or something

[hearty panther]

This is the one concession I agree with. Trying to precisely take out weakpoints on enemies moving across a 3D plane with explosions shaking the shit out of your screen and whatever else with a controller is a pretty difficult proposition.

[cloud thunder]

Guess how much damage the other 2 players took @vernal trench

[vernal trench]

1.5k

[cloud thunder]

1.4K and 1.9k

💀

[vernal trench]

lmfao

On a maelstrom dude

Thats insane

[loud belfry]

ill never forget the game i was in where my teammates took a combined 10k damage

[vernal trench]

Like if u take 200 damage on pox gas its understandable

[hearty panther]

Like trying to shoot a shield devastator's face with two analog sticks must be the fucking WORST thing

[vernal trench]

But maelstrom bro

[loud belfry]

(well, i forgot the game actually. i just remember that it happened)

[cloud thunder]

I had 24 damage taken for a while until they started shooting pox on me but ended up with like 400 damage taken which is good considering the amount of times I got fucked by them

[vernal trench]

400 is a lot for maelstroms

Its a lot even for havoc 40

[cloud thunder]

I average 100-200

Then in friend groups, less

[vernal trench]

On havoc 40?

[hearty panther]

400 is pretty normal.

[vernal trench]

Depends on what class

[loud belfry]

oh god a dick measuring contest is about to begin

[cloud thunder]

Yeah my last run was 9 dmg taken

[faint beacon]

Mfw I managed to barely out damage a Relic Blade user with a fucking Achlys Caxe

[hearty panther]

There's two medkits and like, four medstations per map.

[vernal trench]

Thats pretty good

Without golden toughness?

[cloud thunder]

1 golden

[vernal trench]

book or shout

[cloud thunder]

Guy was trying for TS in our group

Shout

[vernal trench]

Ah

9 is pretty good

[cloud thunder]

Me on psyker, shout vet, ogryn and charge zealot

[gaunt anchor]

TS?

[cloud thunder]

True survivor

[vernal trench]

U use scriers gaze right

[gaunt anchor]

ooooohhh

[cloud thunder]

I used bubble since ogryn wanted TS

[vernal trench]

Ah

Fair enough since hes ogryn

[cloud thunder]

I just find doing duos more fun nowadays

[vernal trench]

Yea cuz it is

Havoc 40 duos are the pinnacle of darktide

Solos is just running around kiting everything on archivum most of the time

[gaunt anchor]

I do not have the skills for truse survivor lmao

[cloud thunder]

Gonna take a break though since wilds is out Friday

[vernal trench]

u dont really need it

[calm shard]

if you dpn't have skill just play inferno staff+bubble psyker

[vernal trench]

just stack golden toughness and the most metashit

[calm shard]

unironically zero skill needed

👍

[cloud thunder]

My favorite build on psyker

Is EK assail

[vernal trench]

inferno scriers gaze goes hard

[cloud thunder]

Left click EK DD assail

[hollow ibex]

I tried that before, I think I'd rather stick with shriek still tbh

[cloud thunder]

Pumps a ton of damage with assail weaving

[vernal trench]

Scriers gaze is better

Harder tho

[cloud thunder]

Scrier?

It’s easier than shriek

You get a lot of buffs

[vernal trench]

Well its more op anyway

Harder depending on people ig

[cloud thunder]

If you’re good at melee

You’re fine

[vernal trench]

Idk i dont play psyker i wouldnt know

[calm shard]

good at melee but then crit chance lottery says I die because I don't get a crit the instant a stalker blows his load across my back

[hearty panther]

Scriers is generally default good but it takes more consideration to make great. Bubble and Shriek are completely brainless comparatively and have ridiculous output.

[vernal trench]

I agree with that

[cloud thunder]

They’re all broken good though

Have you tried taxe scrier 💀

[calm shard]

scriers main benefit over shriek/bubble is that you kill armor just as quick as you kill everything else

and you have good boss damage

[hearty panther]

I mean if we'd slot them into ranks or some shit then Scriers is still S tier but Bubble and Shriek are S+++

[cloud thunder]

Taxe scrier is just broken if you’re good

[vernal trench]

Can u even make that work on havoc

[cloud thunder]

Sure

[tall torrent]

psyker is just broken period

[hearty panther]

Yeah, I'm familiar. But you have to be good. That's the point lol.

[tall torrent]

entire kit is broken

[faint beacon]

Scriers is very strong but the other two options are so fucking strong it’s not even funny

[vernal trench]

Taxe is pretty mid on havoc from what people have been saying

[hearty panther]

Any dummy can make Shriek or Bubble work.

[cloud thunder]

Not with scrier

[hearty panther]

It's literally just press F with no other build consideration and you're done.

[faint beacon]

Scriers is Exe Stance with a bit more management but more bonuses

[cloud thunder]

P much

[vernal trench]

Exec stance is just glass cannon

[faint beacon]

Instead of it boiling down to like take down priority targets it’s

Kill everyone

[calm shard]

taking helbore exe stance into havoc is fun because I can still one shot pus hardened gunners

with the comically high damage helbore does on that setup

[vernal trench]

Its the highest damage build for vets

[calm shard]

it probably takes 2 shots on higher havoc

[vernal trench]

Ucan top 1.8 to 2 mil damage

[calm shard]

also means i get to use heavy sword and that weapon is really fun

Mk IV helbore can clear armor for me

[vernal trench]

Mk 4 is really good

[terse idol]

Did psyker get the first talent tree rework or the last?

[cloud thunder]

#ogryn-class message

@vernal trench scrier taxe example

[faint beacon]

Veteran and Then Psyker

Ogryn and Zealot are due

[vernal trench]

How hard does it drop off once u hit havocs tho

[cloud thunder]

Not much

[vernal trench]

Id love to see that played

[calm shard]

actually what mark do they use for tacaxe psyker

[vernal trench]

Looks interesting

[cloud thunder]

Ask the guy. He mains it

[hollow ibex]

Prob vii

[vernal trench]

I thought he doesnt like havocs

[hollow ibex]

I tried iv and it doesn't work well on psyker

[vernal trench]

Ive seen it all at this point in terms of abilities

[cloud thunder]

But

[vernal trench]

Gunlugger ogryn unironically goes hard in a 40

[cloud thunder]

Serious question

Why do you not take shock trooper using recon

[vernal trench]

Didnt ur friend tell u

[cloud thunder]

Yeah and I asked him

[vernal trench]

I gave him the answer

U dont need shocktrooper for recon 12

[cloud thunder]

Why you sent him duos build when he asked for solo carry build for pugs

[vernal trench]

Its the most recent one i played so i just sent that

[cloud thunder]

Because you absolutely need shock for pugs 💀

[vernal trench]

Na

[tall torrent]

VII is the best tac axe overall

[vernal trench]

Well u do if some zealot is gonna be eating up all ur ammo cuz hes an asshole

[calm shard]

oh I've just been using the II

[cloud thunder]

Pugs are just stupid

[vernal trench]

But if everyone knows to share ammo u dont need shocktrooper

[cloud thunder]

So shock is safer

[vernal trench]

Yep

[vernal trench]

The 15% elite damage works better for me

[cloud thunder]

I mean

You can swap field improv in pugs to shock

[vernal trench]

Ammo gets tight at times if theres bosses and no ammo pickups

[terse idol]

Honestly I've just come to rhe realization I can take either survivalist or shocktrooper and skip one or the other

[vernal trench]

I jsut run it cuz im running that on duos

And im too lazy to switch builds

[vernal trench]

Yea

People exaggerate how bad ammo is on havocs

[cloud thunder]

It’s fine in a good group

[vernal trench]

I keep hearing people say how bad it is and i gotta explain to them u can have 4 vets and have no problems wiht ammo

[cloud thunder]

But when you got a guy taking ammo when he’s at 55/56 ammo

[vernal trench]

Not even good its just as long as they know to share ammo

[vernal trench]

Yea fuck those guys

[gaunt anchor]

please peddler 138/143

give me good curios 😭

[vernal trench]

whats that