wrath doesn't exist on it
#veteran-class
austere pine
tame lodge
Chain axe doesn't have wrath yeah
austere pine
IT HAS NO FUCKING CLEAVE BLESSING
calm shard
chain axe has a hard cleave limit
austere pine
oh hell naw
calm shard
you can never damage more than 4 enemies per swing with it
austere pine
which is ultimately fine but you still need to hit more dudes
tame lodge
IT HAS NO FUCKING CLEAVE BLESSING
Technically it does
Strength is also cleave
But I get what you mean
Anyways 12 has 8 cleave on lights
The 21st might be too thick for it
austere pine
cleave blessings tend to have more cleave value than strength blessings
tame lodge
Indeed
austere pine
which is why i don't want to risk it
chainsword 4 maybe?
i'm just looking for havoc-viable vet melees that aren't the rashad
calm shard
chain sword can honestly barely kill bruisers its damage is so bad
tame lodge
Chainsword is more horde oriented but Havoc will send tons of elites and such as well
austere pine
and that aren't power sword because those two weapons i've played WAY too much of
austere pine
i might be the no. 1 ds hater but i'm also the no. 1 bistol disliker
but hsword helbore does sound nice. will need to level the helbores though
tame lodge
It'll have to be a Havoc Rashad which I don't remember how to build
Or DS and Knife for single target reasons
austere pine
It'll have to be a Havoc Rashad which I don't remember how to build
Or DS and K...
it's built like a rashad
what about mk1 shovel
tame lodge
Hsword is supposed to munch through hordes and "lesser" elites
You just have to bring a ranged for bosses and carapace
tame lodge
what about mk1 shovel
Often paired with a Hotshot Helbore
austere pine
hotshot helbore
tame lodge
Because hotshot helps with melee cleave for some reason
austere pine
i think it's official enough that i don't like helbores
wild vortex
Does helbore mandate exe stance use
calm shard
no but it helps
austere pine
i don't like it for reasons exe stance can't fix
grand perch
helbore with exec + mf hits way hard
surreal gust
0 percent damage lets go
normal bay
IX is great for horde clear. L1 then spam heavies gives you infinite horizontal attacks
pseudo fiber
9 and I've been enjoying the 7 the H1 does a stupid amount of damahe
uncut pebble
Vet gets better mileage out of mk7 than mk9 because you don't open with a strikedown heavy.
austere pine
why are deathblow and bromentum the same blessing but are called different things?
surreal gust
So you can stack em
austere pine
no such thing
tame lodge
Something something
FS didn't want a Bladed weapon to have the name of Brutal Momentum
Or something along those lines
sleek garden
Not in hordes
ancient path
Not in hordes
thats when you sweaty knife dodge stab once dash out
sleek garden
true but I could just take devils claw and hold heavy
deft lotus
Is it just me or are ranged weapons outscaled by havoc 20+? I have a plasma with max dmg and it takes a couple shots to take out gunners with the armor, and even still its 2-shotting unarmored onrs
deft lotus
true but I could just take devils claw and hold heavy
I used to be a devil claw enjoyer until i tried the dueling sword and never looked back, the block attack can basically be used like the parry
unreal nova
Is it just me or are ranged weapons outscaled by havoc 20+? I have a plasma with...
They get ever increasing damage reduction.
From memory.
sleek garden
I jest but it's very satisfying to do the parry
and the mk1 dclaw heavies are good at crowd control
That is what I look for in melee weapons in this game mostly, horde control and modest single target damage as a backup
Every other melee has to work much harder to kill a rager horde
grand perch
does anyone actually use the feature to keep pressing F to see your ability radius (ie shout) ?
surreal gust
Veteran rave
grand perch
they should get rid of it so the ability activates on button press instead of slightly delayed on release
vernal trench
Lmfao it sucks so bad in horde clear
Especiall on moebians
Ur gonna have trouble even killing 3 moebians in a horde
U gotta kill them one by one
vernal trench
Too bad cuz moebians are coming to aurics
sleek garden
They were in aurics before
vernal trench
They comin bakc
vernal trench
They prolly dont have the crazy hitmass they do in havocs
hollow ibex
path said 1.5 hitmass
sleek garden
Devils claw is frustratingly bad in havoc and partially why I don't play in it
hollow ibex
so a light can cleave 2 of them
vernal trench
My damage 
when i use knife on moebians
sleek garden
You can't even proc savage sweep
vernal trench
path said 1.5 hitmass
Thats outside havic
hollow ibex
yes and 4.8 inside havoc
sleek garden
the crowd control weapon sucks at hordes in havoc
I don't want to use wrath I want to use savage sweep
hollow ibex
i'm going to stop running knife when the event starts
sleek garden
Blessings shouldn't just shut off in havoc
vernal trench
yes and 4.8 inside havoc
Thats absurd lfmao
hollow ibex
and taxe too for that matter
sleek garden
Or certain weapons shouldn't be useless
hollow ibex
Thats absurd lfmao
learned the hard way when i brought knife into moebian havoc lol...
vernal trench
Lmao i dont bother crowd clearing much if i get moebians and im running knife
Cant do much against them
hollow ibex
yeah, at that point leave it to the purg psyker with inf cleave
austere pine
WHAT AM I LOOKING AT
sleek garden
the greatest player of all time
vernal trench
WHAT AM I LOOKING AT
Pro
hollow ibex
wait so they didn't even take an upgraded ult?
dry cloak
wait so they didn't even take an upgraded ult?
He probky bought all nodes
hollow ibex
Na hes got exec stance
this is the ES icon though right?
so he has the unupgraded version i think
dry cloak
Yes he has volley fire
vernal trench
Oh yea wtf
vernal trench
even i wont use them in high havoc <:Sitgryn:1016269420638765107>
War do u use
Wat
grand perch
mostly psword cause ds4 is even boringer
vernal trench
Psword goatedp
sleek garden
I don't much like the power sword
dry cloak
Ds4 users have small pp
austere pine
guy is too busy looking at enemies to be doing much
sleek garden
it's pretty awful to use without shout
sleek garden
I like tac axe on zealot
austere pine
another vet has revive shout but not yellow thoughness
sleek garden
Spamming specials into a crowd of ragers
grand perch
its better there
dry cloak
2 ghosts damn
austere pine
they were barely in the match
this guy here (the guy in the red) was level 28 in normal maelstrom
i think i'll stay in auric because there you at least get a guarantee that you get level 30s
dry cloak
i think i'll stay in auric because there you at least get a guarantee that you g...
Sometimes lvl30 are somehow worse than lowered level people
austere pine
Sometimes lvl30 are somehow worse than lowered level people
played a normal damnation with a level 17
sure, sometimes, but that happens like 2% of the time
dry cloak
I have tried farming loe havocs but it got stale fast
tame void
does deadly accurate affect critical hits as well as weak spot dmg?
or only crits on weakspots?
calm shard
only critical weak spot hits
tame void
ty
sleek garden
your 1.5k damage crit headshot is not doing 3k damage it's probably more like 2.5k
for everything but a crusher it's still guaranteeing an instant kill
I mean my gun does at least 3000 on a crit headshot because in the psykhanium it instant kills a dreg rager
calm shard
with deadly accurate crit headshots for 1103
without it on the same build it crit headshots for 790
so it only gets a ~30% damage boost
calm shard
I mean my gun does at least 3000 on a crit headshot because in the psykhanium it...
infantry lasguns have freakishly high maniac damage
sleek garden
Yeah I love them for that
calm shard
it's just the way that boosts to crit damage/weakspot work
sleek garden
on scab gunners a base crit headshot won't one shot them without marksmans focus stacks, around 800 seems right without deadly accurate
calm shard
It only boosts the extra damage you get from a crit/weakspot hit
not the full damage of the hit
sleek garden
I'd say it sounds dumb that it does that but a lot of weapons would start instant killing things
tame void
i see, thanks for info
tall torrent
or only crits on weakspots?
only critical-weakspot hits
not critical hits or weakspot hits
faint beacon
Basically Crit on weakspot hit
unreal nova
Ds4 users have small pp
???
dry cloak
i took the liberty of assuming only men play this game. which is false
formal ice
True
grand perch
my GF will be fairly surprised
tropic halo
WHAT AM I LOOKING AT
How is bro using default ability
hollow ibex
How is bro using default ability <:staregryn:1022085083844325376>
By not taking one of the upgraded ults lol
So all his points are in the top half of the tree
deft lotus
They get ever increasing damage reduction.
Yeah to the point where im wondering why I am using my ranged weapon at all when the dueling sword still takes care of it easily, it almost feels like time spent firing the plasma gun is time better spent meleeing
unreal nova
Yeah to the point where im wondering why I am using my ranged weapon at all when...
50 cleave though... so 9 enemies? XD
deft lotus
More that it can 2-3 shot crushers maulers and ragers
And then whenever I have a grenade up just use that on gun lines
unreal nova
No, as in, the number of things it can shoot through before cleave limit.
deft lotus
The plasma? I didnt even know it could shoot through enemies. Does it only do that on kill?
unreal nova
I thought it could cleave groaners like a railgun.
deft lotus
Yea but im not firing it at groaners but gunners and infantry most of the time
Those are what vet is supposed to be taking down but im very inefficient at it
unreal nova
Yes, but sometimes you just need to shoot through things to get to them.
hollow ibex
The plasma? I didnt even know it could shoot through enemies. Does it only do th...
Nah it just naturally has a shit ton of cleave
unreal nova
Yes, why i said, like 9 or so?
deft lotus
Yea but even without cleave it feels like my ranged dps is lacking at havoc 20+
Are there any talents that are must-haves for this
unreal nova
The funny thiung is, all i heard was Plasma so OP, you need nothing for it.
tall torrent
Yeah to the point where im wondering why I am using my ranged weapon at all when...
Yea well, ammo scarcity does that to most ranged weapons
tame lodge
Yes, why i said, like 9 or so?
If it's 50 cleave you'll need 5 Scab Ragers to stop it (as long as you don't hit carapace)
But last time I checked it was 100 cleave
iron silo
50 for uncharged, 100 for charged
unreal nova
If it's 50 cleave you'll need 5 Scab Ragers to stop it (as long as you don't hit...
I was assuming 50 since nobody charges that thing.
deft lotus
The funny thiung is, all i heard was Plasma so OP, you need nothing for it.
Yeah so idk why im not able to effectively clear ranged with it
unreal nova
And with Havoc mobians being like 4.8 each, you can shoot around 9 targets, or 8+the target you need to hit.
deft lotus
Yea well, ammo scarcity does that to most ranged weapons
Thanks
So its normal to take 4-5 shots to kill?
tame lodge
Yeah I was just checking the mass modifier at h40
tame lodge
Times 3.20
tall torrent
So its normal to take 4-5 shots to kill?
Crusher max scale is 5400 health with carapace
So yea 5 headshots
deft lotus
Bro im talking gunners rn i just melee crushers at this point
deft lotus
Maybe accuracy issue then
tall torrent
Unless pus hardened
deft lotus
Gets hot and rising heat
tall torrent
Perks
deft lotus
I have carapace and weakspot dmg but i might replace it with flak
deft lotus
Unarmored is anything but carapace and flak right
I would assume so but not put it past fs to consider unyielding as armored or smth
tall torrent
Unarmored is anything but carapace and flak right
No
Unarmored is just for unarmored
deft lotus
So the bald ragers would get +25 dmg correct?
tall torrent
No
deft lotus
+25%*
tall torrent
They’re maniac
tall torrent
Unarmored is just for unarmored
.
deft lotus
So unarmored is just groaners and dregs?
raw needle
twins have base unarmored 
tall torrent
Unarmored on plasma gives shotgunner and tox bomber 1 headshot kill in max havoc scaling
deft lotus
Cult champions are armored?
tall torrent
And improves breakpoints in regular damnation too
deft lotus
Dont remember if they are or not but i never got any armor hitmarkers aside from the shield
tall torrent
Cult champions are armored?
Flak
broken spade
bruisers also have unarmored on some parts
deft lotus
What's a bruiser?
queen fox
The guys with Las guns and separate melee weapons, instead of lasgun+bayonet.
iron silo
What's a bruiser?
these goobers
queen fox
Oh shit nvm
iron silo
the "tougher than regular dudes but not as tough as specialists" dudes
broken spade
that guy and also the guy with the bucket on his head
queen fox
What about the lasgun melee weapon scabs?
tropic halo
these goobers
iron silo
What about the lasgun melee weapon scabs?
those are called Stalkers 
formal ice
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1123609358052376706...
Accurate ogryn
queen fox
those are called Stalkers <:zimeNote:1036746072757907547>
Huh
balmy flume
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1123609358052376706...
…how…?
tropic halo
Ogryn is that powerful, people just lack the IQ to become and play like him
terse idol
Ogryn is that powerful, people just lack the IQ to become and play like him
People just have too much IQ to play ogryn
deft lotus
these goobers
The headshot guys
pseudo fiber
What's a bruiser?
faint beacon
The occurrence of Pub Ogryns screaming in VC when they go down or when put in bad situations should be studied
burnt vortex
Is that a podcast in the background?
deft lotus
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/850710858215456779/1203490330222141530/...
Are they just corrupt guardsmen who are too far gone to use a lasgun?
radiant chasm
Lack of supplies plus urban warfare specialized regiment, they are probably just trench raider equivalents or something
tame lodge
mental cloud
Yall have any recommendations on blessings for DB shotgun? Been playing a lot of doom here lately.
tame lodge
Manstopper + Flechette/Scattershot
Deathspitter + Both Barrels
First choice is for weapon specialist gameplay
mental cloud
Ahh ok was about to ask.
tame lodge
3 kills should be enough to proc MS so scatter might not be needed
hollow ibex
If you run it with WS, which you should, you won't need scattershot
minor stump
Any tips for Killshot Ready penance on controller? Thinking more like braced autogun more than single shot weapons, but idk
mental cloud
Any tips for Killshot Ready penance on controller? Thinking more like braced aut...
I did it with recon las, I’m a controller boy too.
minor stump
Ohh all in on the rapid fire lol. I dig it
mental cloud
Accuracy by volume brother lol
tame lodge
I think you use Flechette so you apply bleed to every enemy hit even if you don't insta kill them, since manstopper is basically infinite cleave
hollow ibex
Flechette then? I’m running shredders too
I run MS and Flechette
tame lodge
As long as it doesn't stop at Carapace that is
mental cloud
Ok so go all in on bleed and cleave, the DT version of rip and tear.
hollow ibex
Flechettes also good for finishing off distant specialists
mental cloud
Noice thanks yall!
hollow ibex
DB enjoyers
mental cloud
Yeeess
faint beacon
Manstopper is infinite cleave AND increased stagger…
tawny badger
manstopper lawbringer- I mean zarona
burnt vortex
Chainsword for authentic Doom experience
molten gazelle
Any tips for Killshot Ready penance on controller? Thinking more like braced aut...
I just did it today. Not on console but the recon helped a lot. I preferred to take the 15 stacks option instead of the standing still one (or crouching)
halcyon blaze
Any tips for Killshot Ready penance on controller? Thinking more like braced aut...
I did the last part of it with a shotgun, but a lot of it I did with recon lasgun and infantry autogun. Got it 4 days ago.
crimson wyvern
I did the last part of it with a shotgun, but a lot of it I did with recon lasgu...
🫡 good job soldier
brazen mural
fun*
hollow ibex
You gotta know when to push
And when to fall back
Had a team that just refused to ever advance, much less do the objective
That was some fucking aids
tame void
Gotta learn how to do Auric
Learn how to kill stuff, there you're ready for auric
mental cloud
Gotta learn how to do Auric
Run the high intensities, immerse yourself in the chaos.
next dawn
what's the dump stat for a chain axe? mobility or defense?
unreal nova
what's the dump stat for a chain axe? mobility or defense?
Honestly, either works lul. Pretty sure most dump mobility.
next dawn
ooh ok
narrow frost
what's the dump stat for a chain axe? mobility or defense?
defense
unreal nova
But trust Ainz more.
next dawn
ohh okay... well now i got two 😄
so ill level the defense one when i get to it
whats the point of sire melk btw?
unreal nova
I just know either can be dumped since both of those don't matter as much.
Melk? Curio gamble.
next dawn
it never looks like he has an optimized weapon
unreal nova
Arse guy who insults you constantly.
next dawn
oh, you just spam mystery curios to try to find a max-stat one?
unreal nova
Yes.
next dawn
oh ok... so it would be troll to buy say a
max leveled hammer just to use it while levelling up the hammer mastery?
unreal nova
Unless you get lucky with one of the shop items being a perfect roll somehow.
Naw.
You can do that.
next dawn
i found a combat knife yesterday that was weird
had all 80s and a 61 mobility
im pretty sure its not supposed to be
next dawn
omg i got ripped off
unreal nova
You can totally get it to use, but it's not perfect.
Generally shouldn't be an issue but OCD.
next dawn
yeah hahaha
i guesss in the grand scheme of things, that 0.5% doesnt matter
when if im really min maxing
i think everyone would say duelling sword
unreal nova
Just brunt then.
Or make one and game says you need a 470 perfect roll knoife.
So now you have a 500 and a 470 perfect knoife.
dusky kernel
Question, shotguns on Vet something that is viable?
unreal nova
Question, shotguns on Vet something that is viable?
Double barrel, yes. Combat is a joke.
Just use Bolt Pistol if you plan on Agripinna.
dusky kernel
Well I ask cause I need to level them, so was wondering if there was a way to make them work.
unreal nova
Double barrel is just weapon specialist memes that actually work. You want always prepared btw.
Combat is, just feed hadron combat shotguns.
They are just uber clunky to use. Agripinna needs to 'load' after every shot.
One of the other two deals way less damage with the special.
And their normal shots sit at meh already.
gaunt anchor
What is wrong with Combat shotguns? I am curious because I always enjoyed the special slug rounds to rip through crushers.
terse idol
Double barrel with always prepared is pretty goood
unreal nova
Also, the reload times. WS doesn't help your agripinna reload since it's special load and not normal.
unreal nova
What is wrong with Combat shotguns? I am curious because I always enjoyed the sp...
It's just bad in the, you can get weapons that do that without needing to clunk load every shot.
It would be better if the special was a toggle, but newp.
halcyon blaze
They are just uber clunky to use. Agripinna needs to 'load' after every shot.
I've got a good one and it works fine, they felt clunky as hell the first time I tried them but built right they're decent.
I barely ever use the slugs, only against carapace.
gaunt anchor
It's just bad in the, you can get weapons that do that without needing to clunk ...
I see. I just really like the slug version so yeah I wish it could always ben a slug shotgun 😭
vernal trench
Hi
unreal nova
I've got a good one and it works fine, they felt clunky as hell the first time I...
I mean, they are usable. Just uber clunky which makes them feel less fun.
halcyon blaze
Not as fun as the double barrel, but I found a niche with them that I found enjoyable.
vernal trench
@latent parcel 🫃
unreal nova
I see. I just really like the slug version so yeah I wish it could always ben a ...
Yep. Everyone wishes for that as well. You know, it was the first gun I maxed since I used it on Zealot.
unreal nova
Not as fun as the double barrel, but I found a niche with them that I found enjo...
Also worse than DB for WS with the lack of autoload.
dusky kernel
Any chance anyone has a double barrel build? :p
unreal nova
Any chance anyone has a double barrel build? :p
WS.
Stab 1 thing, auto reload 1 shell, boom.
Rinse and repeat.
halcyon blaze
Yeah that's where the DB shines, I don't use the Combat with WS though.
unreal nova
Yeah that's where the DB shines, I don't use the Combat with WS though.
I guess a focus target build maybe.
Well, the ping one
halcyon blaze
Lately yes, but last time I used it quite a bit was with Marksman's Focus, unconventional, but it worked, especially since Marksman's Focus increases reload speed the more stacks you have.
unreal nova
But crabwalking reeeeeeeeeeee
halcyon blaze
Nah, I was just getting a decent amount of weakspot kills with headshots, Agrippina is good for that.
You loose stacks slower than you think.
unreal nova
You are talking to me, person who can't aim for dook so is 'nadier melee vet.
My Bolt Pistol only serves to buff my now roomwide 'nades.
There's a reason why I still haven't done 4 weakspots thing. My recon doesn't help for that and I can't aim for anything.
Other than VoC is nice.
halcyon blaze
VoC is my favourite
vernal trench
VoC is my favourite
No
halcyon blaze
Especially with Cutthroat
vernal trench
halcyon blaze
vernal trench
dusky kernel
Anyone ever thought out a Catachan Jungle fighter build?
vernal trench
unreal nova
Chonky really hates VoC and runs infil btw.
unreal nova
Especially with Cutthroat
Nu, Loose Cannon best. Hiss.
halcyon blaze
You mean to tell me you don't want to hear about Cadia for the 1074th time?
unreal nova
You mean to tell me you don't want to hear about Cadia for the 1074th time?
HISS.
halcyon blaze
gaunt anchor
Nu, Loose Cannon best. Hiss.
Loose Cannon Supremacy
unreal nova
<:bullied:1159254926086652006>
HISS HISS.
unreal nova
Loose Cannon Supremacy
Yush.
gaunt anchor
my vet uses Loose Cannon Female and its peak
Fem loose cannon and male seer is peak
unreal nova
my vet uses Loose Cannon Female and its peak
I know. Gremlin energy to max.
gaunt anchor
the silliest engaging in the most silly ways
unreal nova
the silliest engaging in the most silly ways
More like, seen too much, so just whatever. Present all that matters.
oblique totem
Why would we want the killing to end, though?
I'm having the time of my life.
unreal nova
Make profits off more profitable stuff than that?
dusky kernel
What would be good blessings for Vigilant Autogun?
austere mica
What would be good blessings for Vigilant Autogun?
Depends on MK
dusky kernel
The good one would be VII right?
hollow ibex
The good one would be VII right?
VII feels really bad because of the servers
Just super inconsistent
wild vortex
on grenadier vet, do you need to have the bistol equipped when throwing the frag, when it blows up, or both?
hollow ibex
You just need the bistol on you
It doesn't need to be in your hand for lethal proximity to work
unreal nova
on grenadier vet, do you need to have the bistol equipped when throwing the frag...
It's a 'global' buff, in sense.
wild vortex
yeah i guess lol
unreal nova
Not even direct grenade hit.
next dawn
this is probably a dead and beaten horse, but whats the most efficient way to farm diamantine? malice or heresy?
narrow frost
Its whatever difficulty you can clear without losing in
simple as
you barely get anything from losing so play the difficulty you can clear
next dawn
does auric give more than a normal heresy?
dusky kernel
Like, materials and all? I've been wondering that too
next dawn
Sorry I was referring to damnation as heresy
wild vortex
does auric give more than a normal heresy?
yes
next dawn
Like, materials and all? I've been wondering that too
Yeah
Ooh okay, I just did my first auric and I felt like people were in coherency more often
next dawn
Oh, not more diamantine?
Hmm okay… dang not sure what to stick with then
What is the point of more xp at auric?
quiet valley
nothing
next dawn
I’m fairly new so I’m still trying to level up weapons and gear
I feel like I just go through mats so fast but when I watch videos everyone has like 1m+ rockets and 100k+ diamantine
surreal gust
Just use what the emperor gives you while you’re leveling and save your materials for later
tall torrent
I’m fairly new so I’m still trying to level up weapons and gear
quick play damnation
or play high level havoc
vernal trench
quick play damnation
or play high level havoc
warm bolt
lilac kayak
I feel like I just go through mats so fast but when I watch videos everyone has ...
@next dawn should try high havoc if u haven't already, very challenging ngl but the rewards u get from weekly havoc h40 drop pays very well
vernal trench
35k plasteel 25k diamantine weekly
analog mural
Lower levels=lower rewards
next dawn
<@194681910465789952> should try high havoc if u haven't already, very challeng...
I think once I get my curios maxed out I’ll give them a shot
Hmm… that’s weird to reward resources at endgame though, I imagine high level havoc would be players with maxed out builds and wouldn’t need the mats
Maybe to max out other gear I guess
gritty delta
Mostly, yeah. After a certain point your mats are just kinda used for fooling around or making certain weapons ideal for certain aspects of combat.
molten gazelle
Heyho fellow Vets !
I'm working a bit towards the Vet penance to do 250 kills with crit weakspot hits with weapon mastery active. So I'm thinking about using either the revolver or the bolt pistol for this (as with the recon lasgun I kinda fail at making much progress).
Any recommendations you guys might have to offer?
pseudo fiber
Revolver is a good choice yeah
uncut pebble
Revolver and bp are both good choices because of their access to hand cannon and deadly accurate, respectively.
Shotguns are also a good choice.
pastel yew
Heyho fellow Vets !
I'm working a bit towards the Vet penance to do 250 kills wi...
by weapon mastery do you mean weapon specialist? I'm not super familiar with the penances tbh
though if it is that, then it's less about ranged weapon selection and more about melee weapon selection if I had to give advice
you want something with strong swap speed, that can kill several entities in a single swing
zarona + rashad is almost definitely the best setup
molten gazelle
Ah yea I did mean weapon specialist haha. Good call.
Indeed, never thought about the melee part. Currently using the chainaxe.
I'll have a look at that too, and build out both revolver & Bpistol. I have the mastery for both anyway, and see what suits me better.
Thank you all !
iron silo
Heyho fellow Vets !
I'm working a bit towards the Vet penance to do 250 kills wi...
one thing I didn't realise until my 250th kill, melee crit kills under the melee buff count as well
so if you have a weapon with decent crit chance that can speed things up
molten gazelle
hmmm. I did not take that into account indeed.
But the melee stack is only 1, but yea it could be +1 kill to the counter. Nice !
molten gazelle
Not bad did a test heresy run and got about25-30 kills towards the penance.
I do need to learn to not unnecessarily switch between melee and gun hehe
pseudo fiber
I mean when you have the node that reloads a bullet when you switch you can do whatever
vernal trench
Maybe I need to do some low level havocs lol
u get pretty shit rewards for low havocs i thin
normal bay
stiff glacier
dear lord deathless weekly is pain
unreal nova
dear lord deathless weekly is pain
Just reroll.
stiff glacier
i got it already like halfway
not gonna drop it now
just gotta wish i dont get any more 5 wound veterans or ogryns
unreal nova
just gotta wish i dont get any more 5 wound veterans or ogryns
Just pick them up.
It's deathless, not downless.
stiff glacier
kinda hard when there is plague ogryn horde and demonhost in play
halcyon blaze
Heyho fellow Vets !
I'm working a bit towards the Vet penance to do 250 kills wi...
I got some good progress with the Las Pistol, nice and fast for whipping out.
balmy flume
dear lord deathless weekly is pain
Just do the piss easy difficulty levels if it gets too bad.
light ridge
Mister E declared Havoc dead
tame lodge
And nothing changed 🗣️
molten gazelle
I got some good progress with the Las Pistol, nice and fast for whipping out.
I've completed it already now 😄
Last 3 penances for the Vet left : Suppress enemies using inflitrate (0/750) | Engulf enemies with smoke grenades (0/2000) - not looking forward to this one | Kill armored enemies with Krak grenades (298/500).
Slowly closing in, so now I'm making an infiltrate build lol
normal sparrow
I've completed it already now 😄
Last 3 penances for the Vet left : Suppress ene...
Last one can be done with scab mobs 
molten gazelle
the armored targets krak one?
normal sparrow
Yup
Just need nadekill flak armored dudes
crimson wyvern
is this menu broken for anyone else
any word on this guys
lilac kayak
I've completed it already now 😄
Last 3 penances for the Vet left : Suppress ene...
U can finish the smoke nade penance pretty quick with premade team or play on a dead night solo
molten gazelle
cool! Thx for the advice Boneofimba & Raiser !
loud belfry
i cant switch to curios???
works for me it seems
lilac kayak
cool! Thx for the advice Boneofimba & Raiser !
There's also a solo mod that some ppl use as well for penance farming
molten gazelle
Hmm. I was reading those and it said no rewards or progression can be made with solo play.. I thought that also meant penances
Guess not then 
lilac kayak
Hmm. I was reading those and it said no rewards or progression can be made with ...
No you don't lose progression if I recall, it's called "many more try"
tidal mango
the armored targets krak one?
Iirc you can also toss a krak into a horde of infected 21st as they also wear flak
As the event is coming back soon, you should be able to complete this in no time
molten gazelle
deffo going to try that, the event is on right now 😄
pale pecan
Me when I top damage as melee vet on a team w/ a DS Zealot, Fire Psyker, and Plasma Vet
With Smoke Grenades
Smoke Grenades my beloved
I sure hope we get some new stuff soon cuz at this point I'm just running normal damnations looking for new dialogue and banter, and meme spots on maps
brazen mural
For those that run the Vigilant autogun, what blessings work on them?
faint beacon
Surgical/Headhunter + Deadly Accurate
Graia 7 is the only one that can use Opening Salvo + Ghost also
brazen mural
Surgical/Headhunter + Deadly Accurate
Graia 7 is the only one that can use Open...
What is the Cd with opening salvo?
faint beacon
What is the Cd with opening salvo?
The condition? Usually around I’d say like .7-1 second
So just tap fire
faint beacon
The 20% damage overall is pretty huge on the Graia 7 VA
brazen mural
The 20% damage overall is pretty huge on the Graia 7 VA
I think my friend will like this tip, as he rally likes the feel of that gun
faint beacon
It’s encouraging sniping but if you want Crit and increased critical Weakspot damage do Surgical + Deadly Accurate
brazen mural
I will give him the options 😄
That might work well with the wall hack ability from vet, so he will be happy
I have not converted him to a shut vet, as I want him to experience the game more naturally. But when it comes to blessings I will gladely help with does and donts
wise fossil
trim badger
I'm so sad yesterday I crashed the moment I died and it was because of an outdated mod...
Now I got demoted for this weekly wraaaaa
Havoc moment
astral ermine
I gotta say I do enjoy the recon and plasma but I gotta find a nicer alternative
There has to be some other viable options
thick kestrel
there is in fairness, plenty which is viable... it's just the top end is a bit of an outlier
thick kestrel
but infantry autoguns, recon lasguns, revolvers and the bolt weapons are all solid high end picks
brazen mural
braced autoguns as well^^
How is the exe stance with Infantry lasgun? I remember that to be very good during the beta and for the first months of DT's time
serene bough
How is the exe stance with Infantry lasgun? I remember that to be very good duri...
its good on the VII but i overall think the IIb is better and it doesnt need exe stance
gaunt anchor
Is it just me or does infilrate seem rather underwhelming other then the capacity to invis rezz people? Maybe I am just using it wrong
tall torrent
Is it just me or does infilrate seem rather underwhelming other then the capacit...
Did you take low profile
gaunt anchor
The uhh, reduced threat or bonus damage one?
tall torrent
Reduced threat
gaunt anchor
Oh I have used it before
hollow ibex
Is it just me or does infilrate seem rather underwhelming other then the capacit...
Infil is very good
Not as broken as VOC though
gaunt anchor
I guess I am just used to how shroudfield works rather then Infiltrate
hollow ibex
Yeah the charge rate on infil is much longer
But it does allow you to move to better positions
vernal trench
I guess I am just used to how shroudfield works rather then Infiltrate
they work almost entirely differently despite both being invis
gaunt anchor
I just, don't know how to use infilrate then it seems other then moving away and sneaky rezzes
hollow ibex
Infil can do a lot of things
vernal trench
Infil can do a lot of things
hollow ibex
Rescue, objectives, panic button, relocate and smash the gunner line, etc
vernal trench
its much better than shout if u can use it well and ur team doesnt need to crutch on golden toughness
gaunt anchor
then I shall rework my infilrate build
wondering if I should go with focus target instead of like weapon specalist for support
trim badger
its much better than shout if u can use it well and ur team doesnt need to crutc...
I shall run duelling sword, plasma and VoC
terse idol
gold toughness isn't a crutch it's a feature
vernal trench
I shall run duelling sword, plasma and VoC
love it
vernal trench
gold toughness isn't a crutch it's a feature <:chadgryn:1161142998214656090>
yea sure
vernal trench
well yea its meant to be used with golden toughness tho
terse idol
probably the lowest value blitz
gaunt anchor
the funny gold makes my brain release happy chemicals
vernal trench
but u bring 90% of havoc 40 players into a havoc with no golden toughness
they instantly fold
terse idol
I mean, chorus
vernal trench
so called true survivors
vernal trench
the biggest crutches
terse idol
smh
tame lodge
Me omw to tell the Emperor he's crutching on gold
vernal trench
lfmao
gaunt anchor
'if you bring the best survival tools to the more intense mode, you are crutching' is a wild statement personally
vernal trench
if u cant survive without it its crutching
shadow dagger
wonder what they'd have to do to shouts res augment to make it worth even considering
vernal trench
Its a crutch
if u use it wrongly definitely
terse idol
Wheelchairless
vernal trench
yea exec stance is glass cannon
terse idol
Infil is a crutch because it gives you back all your touthness
And makes you invisible, it's a crutch
vernal trench
yea if u spam it whenever u see anything
gaunt anchor
I like myfunny chorus cause it gives my teammates dmg buffs 😭
grand perch
you have a very weird definition of a crutch
terse idol
yea if u spam it whenever u see anything
grand perch
by that logic all skills are crutch if you cant do havoc 40 with 0 talent points and grey weapons
gaunt anchor
wait a minute, if an ogryn is using loyal protector to save his teammates, are the other 3 rejects all using crutches unknowingly 🤔
vernal trench
well no because u can tank one hit kills with golden toughness
if ur spamming chorus and shout all game
u can tank eerything
takes no skill
grand perch
doesnt make it a crutch
vernal trench
if u say so
grand perch
crutch is something you leave behind once you get good enough because there are better options at higher skills
tall torrent
What’s the “better option”
vernal trench
pretty much all abilities are better than shout or chorus if u can use it well
grand perch
youll notice even absolutely excellent players still use golden toughness
vernal trench
exec stance has the highest output for example
gaunt anchor
guys, if you have to use power tools at your construction job, you are crutching
grand perch
hence its not a crutch, its just the best ability
vernal trench
youll notice even absolutely excellent players still use golden toughness
yea they like to support the team
tall torrent
exec stance has the highest output for example
Greatly limited by ammo
grand perch
What’s the “better option”
missing my point
tall torrent
missing my point
No I’m asking him
atomic zephyr
melee weapons are crutching
vernal trench
Greatly limited by ammo
if u use las weapons then na
grand perch
oh ok
atomic zephyr
your only melee should be gun bashing
vernal trench
most players cant survive without golden toughness
tall torrent
if u use las weapons then na
Excluding helbore, ammo is still a thing
gaunt anchor
I think calling any ability that is ultimately used to keep yourself and teammates alive in a game where teamwork is the key focus is truly wild
vernal trench
if thats not a crutch idk what is
vernal trench
Excluding helbore, ammo is still a thing
yea but u can pick up ammo
terse idol
You really don't need to with helbore
terse idol
pretty much all abilities are better than shout or chorus if u can use it well
Okay i roll this back
Chorus itself is like, maybe a more balanced ideal for gold toughness
vernal trench
na hellbore is pretty busted in ammo
terse idol
Because you, cannot do dps while having chorus barring like, incind nade
gaunt anchor
VoC also have funny voice lines :)
tall torrent
Okay i roll this back
Chorus itself is like, maybe a more balanced ideal for gol...
Chorus is stronger than VoC for havoc
terse idol
I can see that
vernal trench
im not saying golden toughness isnt strong im just sayin if u need it to survive and cant without it its a crutch
grand perch
kraks would be a kind of crutch. lower skill players would grab them because they dont know how to deal with armor. but it becomes the worse option once the get better at it
terse idol
Its just weird to say how the other blitzs are better if used right
tall torrent
Blitz is your grenade
gaunt anchor
I wish executioners stance didn't slow you down 😭
tall torrent
What slow down
atomic zephyr
it doesnt
shadow dagger
do you mean like
gaunt anchor
I thought it slowed your movement down???
atomic zephyr
no
shadow dagger
the startup taking you out of sprint
vernal trench
u can run with it wdym
gaunt anchor
Chat
shadow dagger
because that's every ult
gaunt anchor
I may have gaslight myself
atomic zephyr
the extra zoom reduces your FOV which may reduce the sense of speed
but there is no actual slowdown
tall torrent
I thought it slowed your movement down???
It lowers your FOV while active but has no effect on movement speed
So it’ll feel as if you’re slower when you’re not
vernal trench
also u can extend the timer
tall torrent
Most weapons in this game have abysmally slow ADS movement speed
vernal trench
Awith melee
gaunt anchor
I know that part cause its epic and cool
gaunt anchor
Okay another like, vet question. I have only used the inf lasgun for like marksman + executioners
should I use a differentt one? cause I like being a silly sniper
vernal trench
hellbore
tall torrent
Helbore is very bizarre
For the avg player inf lasgun is prob better
Even though it’s not the best
gaunt anchor
thats the charge one yeah?
tall torrent
Helbore has a lot of problems
gaunt anchor
I wish hellbore didn't consume ammo with that crit perk one 😭
grand perch
it...doesnt
tall torrent
Low maniac damage
Low overall DPS
Super slow draw to fire
Super slow draw to aim
Abysmal iron sights
Very high talent investment
Tbh the first two are already dealbreakers for most people
vernal trench
I wish hellbore didn't consume ammo with that crit perk one 😭
it doesnt and thats why hellbore ammo is so efficient
gaunt anchor
guys, I might be a little stupid
I was thinking weakspot hits and not crits I think???
tall torrent
It’s ok everyone is a little stupid these days
gaunt anchor
I might be an ogryn irl
grand perch
burnt vortex
What's a good one and done ranged for gunners and specialists.
tall torrent
What's a good one and done ranged for gunners and specialists.
What mode
Base game or havoc
gaunt anchor
also I agree, the ironsights are bad and hurt me
burnt vortex
Auric
tall torrent
Revolver IIa
grand perch
one and done as in low talent investment?
burnt vortex
That the fan one or the hand cannon
grand perch
it has like 2 builds and both are meme
burnt vortex
Ok, hand cannon it is
shadow dagger
I think improving the staged reload of the normal revolver is one of the few things stopping it from being permanently glued to my palms
tall torrent
Maniac
Unarmored / elite
Point blank
2nd blessing up to u
Take superiority complex if u want elite over unarmored
Doesn’t make a huge difference for other breakpoints
So I prefer unarmored
To have lowest point cost possible
Point blank is the strongest crit blessing for revolver and boltpistol
shadow dagger
we love vet talent tree always missing like 3 points in like every fucking build ever
😟
tall torrent
Other blessing can be run&gun, surgical, crucian, really whatever
I use run&gun cuz it buffs handling and hip fire spread
burnt vortex
Would it be worth running WS and keeping it at low ammo for crucian or is that dumb
shadow dagger
hipfire no regs without run n gun feel so bad once you try using it with and without
crucian feels like such a cringe bless to me never use it
burnt vortex
one and done as in low talent investment?
One and done in that I point at bombers and gunners and they go away so I can go back to managing hordes. Feels like the last few pugs I've been having to play specialist cleaner solo.
shadow dagger
should always assume you're the babysitter of the lobby in open queue
always deal with disablers, scary specials, ranged elites
never bring doublebarrel
vernal trench
always deal with disablers, scary specials, ranged elites
tbf tahts everyones jobs tho
orchid hemlock
should always assume you're the babysitter of the lobby in open queue
Tbh when I see my teamates go down 2 minutes into the run I just leave
vernal trench
Tbh when I see my teamates go down 2 minutes into the run I just leave <:chadgry...
thats bad mentality
orchid hemlock
thats bad mentality
It's just that it would be faster to queue into another game than stay
hearty panther
it's strictly faster to stay in the game you're already in
shadow dagger
tbf tahts everyones jobs tho
shame that the +500 truelevel thinks bringing a 430 melee with 3 unmaxed perks/blesses is their real job
orchid hemlock
it's strictly faster to stay in the game you're already in
Maybe if it was in the middle of the run, but at the very beginning like from spawn
Nah I'm gone
hearty panther
okay enjoy unqueueing requeueing matchmaking intro screen and the run up all over again
gee sure sucks how those people are checks notes wasting your time
terse idol
Me when I'm playing with my friend and the 2 Randoms keep going down after we get them out from dead
Its like clockwork
shadow dagger
I've also noticed a weird amount of like +1k infiltrate vets thinking rushing to the last res before an elevator in preparation of a full wipe is a good idea
like their rushing doesn't partially cause the wipe in the first place
vernal trench
to this day ive never seen a half decent infiltrate vet
balmy flume
I've also noticed a weird amount of like +1k infiltrate vets thinking rushing to...
Probably desperate to get that rescue teammate penance.
Which is a pain to farm for.
wild vortex
Stealth players are shitters and you can't change my mind
balmy flume
Ironically, harder when good players are on the team…
orchid hemlock
Using stealth seriously: 🤮
narrow frost
this is what a good stealth vet looks like
vernal trench
Stealth players are shitters and you can't change my mind
if u never seena good one yea
orchid hemlock
this is what a good stealth vet looks like
3k damage but no damage taken
balmy flume
Trained by the Ravenguard
wild vortex
if u never seena good one yea
It doesn't matter if they're good at the game or not, they're all toxic fuckwads
vernal trench
thats some narrow mindset
halcyon blaze
pretty much all abilities are better than shout or chorus if u can use it well
I would argue that VoC isn't just for golden toughness, you also get bonus to melee damage and you stagger nearby foes, it makes it really useful when you're trying to get downed teammates up, but also just helps the team deal with a big horde and specialists faster.
wild vortex
400 hrs and never encountered a stealth player who was both good at the game and a good teammate
Best you get is either or
balmy flume
I mean, sadly, stealth runs the risk of leaving your temmate hanging dry
wild vortex
Mostly you get neither
balmy flume
Due to how enemy attention works
wild vortex
It is what it is
vernal trench
400 hrs and never encountered a stealth player who was both good at the game and...
650 and ive seen amube 2w
hollow ibex
I main stealth. Can confirm am toxic fuckwad. But that's what playing 99 percent pubbies has done to me.
vernal trench
mayve
halcyon blaze
Stealth can clutch if everyone is dead and needs rescue
vernal trench
maybe*
wild vortex
I try to queue dodge stealth players if I see them in mission select itself
vernal trench
yea cuz they almost always suck LMFAO
hollow ibex
I don't even notice players playing stealth. It's all the same to me
wild vortex
Stealth can clutch if everyone is dead and needs rescue
Or just play a real ability and prevent that from happening in the first place lemayo
vernal trench
ive seen @latent parcel solo missions with shroudfield but hes like one of probably less than 3 good stealth players
ive ever seen
narrow frost
my friend uses stealth
wild vortex
Stealth in a team-based horde brawler is a shitty design choice anyway IMO
halcyon blaze
Or just play a real ability and prevent that from happening in the first place l...
Not saying I use it, just noticed last time when things were hairy the stealth player managed to get us. (though maybe him being stealth is what caused us to get more aggro in the first place and die), I basically kept stealth for the penance and then immediately went back to the other two Ults.
vernal trench
and he deosnte evn play stealth
shadow dagger
ive seen <@201514447121022976> solo missions with shroudfield but hes like one o...
colon three
terse idol
Stealth in a team-based horde brawler is a shitty design choice anyway IMO
ehy it's fine
because it makes objectives very easy
vernal trench
peopel hate on stealth because no one knows how to play it and play it well
hollow ibex
Yeah you can play stealth very selflessly
tall torrent
peopel hate on stealth because no one knows how to play it and play it well
No
It’s because most people don’t understand how it even works
vernal trench
yea and that too
halcyon blaze
It’s because most people don’t understand how it even works
Kind of the same thing no?
tall torrent
Kind of the same thing no?
Well
vernal trench
pretty much
tall torrent
You’d need a basic level of understanding of how it works
vernal trench
they have no concept of how it can even be used
tall torrent
To be able to use it well
halcyon blaze
True
tall torrent
And the game never teaches you any of that
vernal trench
stealth builds if used effectively isnt to just run from everything
u can do literally everything with it
wanton dawn
I was told not to say "no" when it is just to rephrase what other ppl said
halcyon blaze
I liked using it to get some good surprise hits in and suppress a large group of ranged.
vernal trench
the best thing ive seen are dudes using infiltrate as a stun tool
instant exit infiltrate right before attacking
thats worse than using it to run from everything
halcyon blaze
Yeah, I assume that's why the penance is the way it is, to give the hint that that's how you should ideally use it.
vernal trench
most people cant even grasp how infiltrate is used
shroudfield is used entirely differently almost
terse idol
Instant exit infiltrate right before attacking is worse than using it to run from everything?
I'm confused
vernal trench
And the toughness refill
shout yea
halcyon blaze
I'm confused
Exit infiltrate suppresses nearby enemies, but also activates other combat ability bonuses that would normally activate on Ult activation, instead it applies at the end of infiltrate.
vernal trench
infiltrate stagger is pretty much a side effect with how u can use it msot of the time
its a weak stagger
tall torrent
It’s a pretty strong stagger
vernal trench
compare it to shout na
tall torrent
Not as strong as VoC
But can interrupt rager and mauler
Which puts it higher than most weapons
vernal trench
yea thats why peopel who use infiltrate solely for stagger just makes me facepalm
hollow ibex
People do that? 
vernal trench
ive seen 2 people on youtube do that now
hollow ibex
I honestly just treat it as a helpful side effect
vernal trench
atleast bring low profile if u use it in that shitty way
but they dont even bring low profile
vernal trench
I honestly just treat it as a helpful side effect
yea its pretty mch that
its not enough to stagger anything for any long periods of time
reapers get stunned for a tiny bit and tahts it
tall torrent
Stagger is not stun
tall torrent
Yea, just bad terminology
vernal trench
yea
tall torrent
Stun is super specific in this game
vernal trench
Stun is super specific in this game
waht actualyl is it
tall torrent
waht actualyl is it
Stun is like
Smite
Shock maul’s special
Zealot’s stun grenade
It incapacitates enemies and roots them in place
hollow ibex
For example do you know about stealth grace as a mechanic
This is the free attack when you first stealth right?
tall torrent
I think EK staff’s charged attack is also stun?
tall torrent
This is the free attack when you first stealth right?
First 0.5s after entering stealth, stealth cannot break under any circumstance
faint beacon
If enemy slightly stumbles or falls over
Stagger
If enemy is stuck in place and unable to move
Stun
tall torrent
It’s there as lag compensation but allows u to do some funny things
Mainly useful for shroudfield
hollow ibex
First 0.5s after entering stealth, stealth cannot break under any circumstance
Ah yeah I treat that as a free attack lol
tall torrent
U can get 2 crits out
past oriole
@tall torrent do you have any infil builds you would recommend? its the only ability i havent used once yet as vet
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> do you have any infil builds you would recommend? its the ...
I don’t play infil
past oriole
tall torrent
Infil’s point cost is annoying to me
grim widget
im whipped boys
tall torrent
And it being longer CD also is annoying
hollow ibex
<@366562874039992331> do you have any infil builds you would recommend? its the ...
You can try something like this
1 flex point
vernal trench
Infil’s point cost is annoying to me
infiltrate is pretty much just a weaker version of shroudfield tbh
tall torrent
infiltrate is pretty much just a weaker version of shroudfield tbh
It’s stronger than shroudfield for team play
vernal trench
it does different things but with how much u can enter shroud in and out
vernal trench
It’s stronger than shroudfield for team play
yea
tall torrent
Not as good as shroudfield for solo
vernal trench
cuz shroudfield ur invis the whole game lfmao
past oriole
You can try something like this
thanks ill try it out
tall torrent
But I think infil’s main problem is CD / point cost
vernal trench
2 charges and its like 50+ seconds
tall torrent
I don’t think double charge is worth it
vernal trench
its really good for a lot of situations
hollow ibex
I don’t think double charge is worth it
I honestly hate it
vernal trench
especially clutching and going back after staying out in frontlines for a long while
hollow ibex
Found it to be insufferable with double charge
vernal trench
u can stay safely outside in the ambush area in dark communion while ur team is in the corner
lets u kill all the gunners and the double charge is for u to get back when need to
tall torrent
Infil’s point tax issue means u have to run guns with lower point cost (since you’re almost 100% gonna spec melee anyway)
vernal trench
the cd isnt that much longer than one charge also
tall torrent
And 45s base CD doesn’t feel good for veteran
vernal trench
it sucks ass
vernal trench
its not that much longer once u actually use the 8s duration
it only sucks the worst when ur on last charge and u gotta just run the whole game to rescue
tall torrent
If infil was 35s CD and double charge was 45s I think I’d like it a bit more
Point tax still annoying tho
vernal trench
itll be so much more op
tall torrent
That’s the main dealbreaker for me
vernal trench
yea i go survivalist and then shredder
tall torrent
itll be so much more op
Nah
vernal trench
it wiggles around like an S
tall torrent
Point tax is still dealbreaker
past oriole
would chainaxe work with infil
tall torrent
2-3 extra cost
past oriole
its one of the only weapons i havent tried yet
vernal trench
point tax for infiltrate especially for havocs is crazy
i run powersword so going down weapon specialist means im missing a lot of stuff noramlly u would have
broken spade
yeah infiltrate pathing is cringe
hollow ibex
would chainaxe work with infil
Should be fine but if you're playing an ability for the first time, use a weapon you're comfortable with
tall torrent
Veteran’s problem is talent tree hard funnelling you into VoC even if u don’t want to play VoC
orchid hemlock
its one of the only weapons i havent tried yet
past oriole
Should be fine but if you're playing an ability for the first time, use a weapon...
i learn the hard way by getting destroyed
past oriole
hollow ibex
i learn the hard way by getting destroyed
Lol fair
vernal trench
tbh how often do u actually see someone thats not running voc
i onyl play havocs and every single veteran i see runs shout
tall torrent
And infiltrate is not as good as VoC tbh
Even if VoC didn’t give gold toughness
tall torrent
If Infil was 35s CD then it’s like, roughly equal to base VoC in strength
vernal trench
And infiltrate is not as good as VoC tbh
Even if VoC didn’t give gold toughness
for direct team support maybe
broken spade
tbh how often do u actually see someone thats not running voc
i would use other abilities for variety's sake if the tree didn't punish me even harder for not going middle of the tree
tall torrent
for direct team support maybe
Nah just the stagger is much more useful
vernal trench
but ur survivability is pretty high compared ot shout if u need to clutchhard
vernal trench
Nah just the stagger is much more useful
that too
but theres a lot of stuff u cant do as well with shout that u can with infiltrate
hollow ibex
Honestly the cd of infiltrate and VOC should be swapped
vernal trench
lmfao id like that
tall torrent
Honestly the cd of infiltrate and VOC should be swapped <:KEKW_ogryn:10220771883...
VoC would still be the stronger ability
vernal trench
depends on what u mean by strong tho
broken spade
paying extra talent tax for a generally inferior ability just stings
hearty panther
VoC was 45s originally and was already crazy strong. And then they made it 30s for reasons.
vernal trench
hard carrying infiltrate is infintiely better
direct team support infiltrate doesnt do mch with that
hollow ibex
VoC would still be the stronger ability
Yeah and that's ok, would still be an improvement over now
vernal trench
direct as in stagger or golden toughnes
objectives with infiltrate is also practically free
broken spade
VoC was 45s originally and was already crazy strong. And then they made it 30s f...
yeah i thought it was fine at 45 when the trees came out but vets kept complaining about the tree and they buffed the part that needed it the least
tall torrent
depends on what u mean by strong tho
Hard funnel down middle from talent pathing, heavy stagger, has option for gold toughness
Plus infiltrate’s sub nodes are kinda wack
vernal trench
u can have ur whole team hunker down in a corner on clandestine and have infiltrate do every objective
orchid hemlock
will enemies just ignore me after stealth or something
Sorta
vernal trench
Hard funnel down middle from talent pathing, heavy stagger, has option for gold ...
that 50% toughness reduction for infiltrate is strange
hollow ibex
that 50% toughness reduction for infiltrate is strange
That's what I take
vernal trench
only time ud wnat is if u dont wanna use low profile
tall torrent
that 50% toughness reduction for infiltrate is strange
It’s good
Just not as good as low profile in most situations
hollow ibex
Golden toughness at home
vernal trench
but u would wanna use low profile unless ur doing duos
tall torrent
Surprise attack needs a buff
vernal trench
cuz u cant afford to dump everything on ur duo with low profile
tall torrent
Infil’s base CD needs a buff
hollow ibex
I'm also expecting to clutch so it's a good node
vernal trench
Surprise attack needs a buff
5 seconds is too short imo
tall torrent
but u would wanna use low profile unless ur doing duos
Nah
hollow ibex
5 seconds is too short imo
Yeah
tall torrent
Even for duo it’s still the better choice
vernal trench
i took it off for my duo build
tall torrent
If u had to take a subnode
vernal trench
cuz 18 seconds of leaving my duo entirely alone is too dangerous
tall torrent
I fundamentally don’t believe in the whole “aggro dumping” argument
orchid hemlock
Aggro dump.....
DEEZ NUTTS
vernal trench
a lot of the times i go invis is if i stayed there i wouldve died or everyone was already going to die
tall torrent
Having a teammate aggro dump just means u get to kill more stuff
vernal trench
or high ping and i cant afford to risk it
vernal trench
Having a teammate aggro dump just means u get to kill more stuff
not when u got a captain and boss tho
that can be fatal
tall torrent
The only time it could be detrimental would be trapper redirecting target
tall torrent
not when u got a captain and boss tho
Captain is not threatening outside of 1 variant
broken spade
i still hate low profile
how am i gonna get my reciprocity stacks with no aggro?
vernal trench
Captain is not threatening outside of 1 variant
bosses are if the entire armored horde is heading towards the one guy
and the boss
tall torrent
And chaos spawn is the only semi threatening monster in havoc purely for its ADHD
vernal trench
when ur solo thats prolly the worst one tbh
cuz they catch up so quick if ur kiting
tall torrent
And u can’t burst it down like base game as easily cuz x1.7 monster health
tall torrent
But frankly that’s still pretty niche situation