veteran-class

[radiant chasm]

Bag does nothing and bolter is one round more to open a closed bulwark shield which is just a waste regardless

[hearty panther]

there was one time where i was clutching and there were eight bulwarks in a blob on the field and i couldnt proc grenade regen off anything else

and i was like

boy i wish this bolter popped them open with one shot right now

[radiant chasm]

No not one shot

One less shot

It’s like 6 vs 5

[hearty panther]

i swear there was a time where it only took one in xstance

or maybe it was zealot shenigans? either way, i had a single shot ADS + double tap hipfire thing going on for a while

thats been long dead though

[tall torrent]

max collateral is 2 shot to open bulwark with exe stance which is just 1 hipfire burst

[hearty panther]

ye wouldve been nice do it in just two

would have really stretched out my ammo

anyway i did not clutch that game lmao

that bulwark shield bash is brutal

[hollow ibex]

honestly i've really started liking kraks

fuck bulwarks

shit is so unfun to play against

five of them lined up, and then a wall of crushers behind them

and then behind all that, trappers with phasing nets

[hearty panther]

when they blob up i feel the same

otherwise i like em

that shield bash has a cooldown of some sort so usually you can play it out, but eight in a giant blob + whatever else was going on meant i couldnt keep avoiding it

i feel like they need a larger collision radius with themselves

and yea in some senses i lost that fight at the loadout screen, and for not bringing kraks

still goofy since on psyker i wouldve effortlessly force push and stabbed em in the face

[hollow ibex]

blobwarks are the worst

had one match where i had five of them chase me halfway across the map, while my team was off taking the scenic route

couldn't do shit, though it's partially my fault for running a meme build

[hearty panther]

the thing about the shield bash is that its not that dangerous by itself (i know, basically true for everything in the game)

you just ... stand there, without blocking, and you'll be fine

if you hold block for other shit it just instantly deletes your stamina and thats a real killer

and yeah theyre so damn hard to separate if you dont have something to CC them to start spacing them out

im trying to find a clip

[hollow ibex]

lol yeah literally just a blob of shields

that somehow can also keep catching up to me

[hearty panther]

they should not be allowed to do this

thats eight bulwarks

now i admit thats different because they all came off that drop down

and all the enemies have that problem of waterfalling into each other

but they all stick together pretty much exactly that tight

while they romp around like a fucked up phalanx

it just aint right

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/vikings-history-valhalla-shieldwall-gif-5110690

[hearty panther]

" ... Flame grenade!"

[calm shard]

clearly this game needs a vermintide flail that completely ignores shields and has infinite cleave

[hearty panther]

idk i kinda miss the shield counterplay that went on in VT2

but admittedly that was a layer of complexity that like 99% of the total lifetime playerbase never learned

[calm shard]

yeah because bulwarks in this game don't have the stamina mechanic that made shield enemies balanced in that game

[hearty panther]

well yea and we dont have tiny rats with tiny shields

[calm shard]

just fuckin' hit the shieldrat a few times in quick succession and then murder him

[hearty panther]

enemy shield were pretty abundant, here it's JUST the bulwark

but i get why they did that

most people just hated the fuck out of shields and never learned how to fight them

(push twice. thats it. just do two pushes.)

[calm shard]

too complicated when you can just complain about them instead

and now we have bulwarks where your weapon either ignores them, or it's miserable against them

[sleek garden]

if you're veteran if you have no nades its over
if you're zealot if you have stun nades you can do some damage on them pretty quick
if you're ogryn you can at least stagger them some
psyker just tosses them around for fun

[calm shard]

ogryn overheads also go over bulwark shields

[tall torrent]

this would have been a glorious krak multi-kill feed

[errant carbon]

Scab Breacher as Shieldvermin analogue when

[hearty panther]

i crusher'd them

[void dragon]

What weapons can break (aka make vulnerable) the bulwarks with relative ease? I know shout is one but is there other ways?

[thorn lark]

nades

[tall torrent]

exe boltgun (2 shot open shield)
combat shotgun mk7 (special shot 1 tap open shield)
VoC
shredder frag grenade
krak grenade

[crimson wyvern]

despite the high ammo pool, braced auto-gun graia makes me wanna vomit

I will try vraks

[hearty panther]

graia is for actual bracing

otherwise it doesnt have much purpose beyond more ammo

but if you brace it that extra ammo makes a lot more sense

[crimson wyvern]

it fires so fast and does so little damage, and the range kinda feels a bit dogwater

that it feels like the ammo pool dont mean much

[hollow ibex]

you need exec stance for graia

once you get it, it's quite good/ammo efficient

[hearty panther]

ive ran this abomination all the way to 30~ havoc iirc

[hollow ibex]

and you should be bracing most of the time

[hearty panther]

and yea its xstance graia with wepspec

[hollow ibex]

good gun, despite being braced

[hollow ibex]

i briefly tried that but the point tax murdered it for me

[hearty panther]

really?

cause i run it with smokes and move speed aura lmao

[hollow ibex]

oh i run with frags

[hearty panther]

it would be much better and easier with survivalist

but much less fun for me

[hollow ibex]

i had surv too

but pathing across and all the way down to ws is =/

[hearty panther]

personally im always over there anyway

there's just two nodes that i do hate to take, but theyre both attached to xstance sadly

opening salvo/killzone and the 5% reload speed node

all wastes

[hollow ibex]

yeah ES/surv have a lot of bad travel nodes

[hearty panther]

meawnhile right side is pure value town

[hollow ibex]

smoke being there annoys the shit out of me

but otherwise yes

i also very much like infil

[sleek garden]

smoke good

infiltrate button

run to enemy

drop smoke nade at feet

now nobody can shoot

[winter sluice]

Smoke need buff

Make smoke a gas nade

Fixed

[sleek garden]

throw smoke between you and bad guy

bad guy stops shooting

[calm shard]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710745951236522019/1288252692149440512/caption-5-1.gif

[void dragon]

any suggestion for a melee weapon (no DS) to pair with the boltgun? tried the chainswords and so far im kinda disapointed

[sleek garden]

depends because outside of the duelling sword weapons dont actually do everything

[tall torrent]

heavy sword IX

[sleek garden]

i like the devils claw

with bolter

[unreal nova]

Knoife.

[sleek garden]

a crusher just got the precision ninja 3 tap

[void dragon]

what blessings and perks for it?

[tall torrent]

flak
maniac
deathblow
headtaker

[sleek garden]

we were all in one room with no enemies there and we all ran out and a crusher rounds the door from the room we were just in and killed 3 people

[uncut pebble]

Dclaw, hsword, shovel, taxe.

[uncut pebble]

Maniac not really needed on hsword, vet has damage talents to meet 1shot bps on dreg ragers easily iirc.

55% headshot from precision strikes and desperado, 15% elite from sup complex.

[tall torrent]

it gives mutant 1hs without any buffs up

[uncut pebble]

You don't need maniac for that anyway. :)

H1 on mk9 will 1tap a mutant outright.

No talents, headtaker, or maniac damage needed.

[pure kindle]

Wrath and Bloodletter tackle all of the Chainsword's biggest issues, IMO: now you cleave through all chaff after a few hits and Bloodletting will kill just about everything short of a crusher after a weakpoint hit, and will even take those down faster.

[uncut pebble]

Bloodletter is a huge trap blessing on chord.

It's only effective vs ogryns and bosses.

[tall torrent]

(without maniac)

[uncut pebble]

Wait I'm insane.

[pure kindle]

I mean, those are pretty handy things to be effective against, in addition to rounding-off Maulers. It even does the last trickle of damage on particularly stubborn Ragers and Mutants.

[uncut pebble]

I know what I'm remembering now.

[tall torrent]

Yea I’m kinda aware

[uncut pebble]

It's deimos that doesn't need maniac.

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[uncut pebble]

:)

A little silly and or goofy.

I had actually just launched and put infested on my hsword 9 to check lol.

But you beat me to it.

[pure kindle]

Otherwise I usually just take a folding shovel with my fuck-off Vet weapons: Thrust or Bromentum for the big guys, Uncanny Strike or Skullcrusher for hordes. Great for getting that breathing room to afford a reload.

[uncut pebble]

If you are rev attacking ragers then you've made a critical error somewhere.

[pure kindle]

(I think I got the "Skullcrusher" name right. There's like six "on stagger, X their Y" blessings)

[pure kindle]

Rager not Ragers. For the ones that slip through the rest of you and your team's bullshit.

Bloodletting lets you kill them even if you initiate against the Scab Rager's carapace.

[uncut pebble]

Methinks you do not realize how much you actually fuck yourself over by taking bloodletter.

[tall torrent]

Not as big of a loss on veteran compared to zealot

[uncut pebble]

Chainswords are one of the few weapons that actually need cleave. They also have interactions with crits that other weapons don't have. Mk13 calls for shred + wrath, mk4 calls for shred + savage sweep/rampage.

[tall torrent]

U can somewhat bypass the cleave problem with helbore hotshot

[thorn lark]

?

[tame lodge]

Common helbore w

[pure kindle]

That's what Wrath is for, yeah.

[uncut pebble]

But then you don't take shred.

[tall torrent]

Hotshot makes all (yes, all, including melee weapon attacks) weakspot hits consider enemy as 0.5x mass

[uncut pebble]

You'll now cleave things, but not kill them.

:)

Crits are integral to the chainsword's function.

[pure kindle]

. . . you're not killing that many more with Shred.

[tall torrent]

U can cope with shred + bloodletter + hotshot

[thorn lark]

nah shred is essential on the chord

[tall torrent]

But better yet u can just not use a chainsword

[uncut pebble]

^^^

Chainswords are such icky weapons.

[tall torrent]

I think bloodletter makes chainsword a lot more flexible but at the end of the day it’s still a chainsword

[pure kindle]

Like it does up your DPS no doubt, but the issue with labbing-out hordes is that you can now kill an individual target with two hits instead of three, only for another two to take that space.

After a whole horde encounter you've now saved about four or five swipes out of twenty-six.

[uncut pebble]

Actually, why am I bothering to discuss this with you? You don't even think gunner resist is necessary.

[pure kindle]

It isn't.

[uncut pebble]

And that comment alone is enough for me to disregard this conversation entirely.

[pure kindle]

I don't wear a lifejacket in the pool, either.

There's way too much focus on like, spreadsheets and the scoreboard mod in casual conversations.

[tall torrent]

Chainsword has a quirk where the bonus damage from crit stays same across all enemies u hit, so building crit chance ups its horde clear pretty massively

[thorn lark]

tbh, if you don't go stupid you can do without it

but the moment you meet you 2 reapers...

[tall torrent]

It’s a bit unfortunate that chainsword is so mid (on veteran) despite being iconic

[cloud thunder]

To be fair, you don’t need gunner resist

[hearty panther]

gunner resist is ass

[uncut pebble]

Almost like numerical values as to what is and isn't effective is a good indicator or something...

[cloud thunder]

Sliding, cover, etc. many ways to deal with ranged units

[uncut pebble]

Almost like... maybe... tide games are breakpoint intensive...

🤔

[agile forge]

I like it to pair with a Plasma at least

[tall torrent]

I think gunner resist mainly helps for funny reaper insta down situations

[thorn lark]

i agree

[pure kindle]

I can't help but feel that Darktide does a great job at highlighting how impractical Bolters, Thunderhammers, Flamethrowers, and Chainweapons are to like . . . massed lasgun/autogun fire and hitting someone in the soft spot with something sharp and heavy.

[agile forge]

Well bolters and flamers are great atm

[thorn lark]

no

[agile forge]

But yes to the others

[thorn lark]

pls buff

bolter so sad

unusable

[uncut pebble]

Chain weapons are bad. The rest of those weapons are good.

[tall torrent]

I would agree except boltgun, flamer and thunder hammer are generally fine

Thunder hammer can use more buffs imo

[agile forge]

Imo crusher eats thunder hammer's lunch outside of bosses

And you can get other crazy boss answers

[uncut pebble]

Chaxe is nigh unusable. Evisc has so many issues that relic blade is a direct upgrade across the board. Chord doesnt deal enough damage or have enough cleave so it relies heavily on crits and cleave blessings.

[tall torrent]

Just axe

[agile forge]

Axe is also solid

Ngl I am using chainsword because I don't want a third axe loadout

[hearty panther]

tbf pretty much all the weapons in the lore are just rule of cool nonsense so ... yeah

[pure kindle]

It's a casual game until Go Nuts Maelstrom and 15+ Havoc. People are flowcharting themselves out of a good time.

Fuck around until you hit level 30, find weapons that you generally enjoy and learn what the attributes actually mean, slap the fun blessings on them and you're competitive up to Havoc 20.

[uncut pebble]

It's comical, how good axes are, because they're even busted in rogue trader, especially if you hail from a death world, because you get bonuses with them.

[hearty panther]

like my brain still cant reconcile the idea of a chainsword or similar weapons, they're so functionally stupid as fuck in reality. anyone who has ever handled a chainsaw knows why you wouldnt want to swing one into a giant piece of metal when the entire engine is running (you're going to get pulled right the fuck into the thing)

[agile forge]

Axes build cardio

And as we all know

Cardio beats chaos

[tall torrent]

Hell yea

Best melee weapons for humans in the 41st millennium:
A normal hatchet
A fruit knife

[uncut pebble]

Well, they have self sharpening teeth, so it's not a terrible idea, but you have to be hella strong to not yank yourself into your enemy.

[agile forge]

An Ogryn's toothpick

[uncut pebble]

Realistically, the only people capable of using chainswords would be astartes and ogryns, because they have the weight to not get yanked by the chain.

[hearty panther]

yea everyone else would be a fucken disaster

just millions of guardmen yeeting themselves into the frontline

chainsword stuck behind them in some orc

[pure kindle]

In a mechanical/narrative sense, my issue is that you'll kill more Ogryn/Chaff with a Bolter/Flamethrower and faster than with any other weapon . . . and the Lasgun or Infantry autogun will have kept killing enemies in the time it takes you to reload or scavenge for more ammo after quartering it every Crusher and Bulwark/Infested blob.

[uncut pebble]

Though, tbf, human chainsword patterns arent really meant to fight armor.

The self sharpening teeth are meant to rend bones.

But even then, you run into some things, like orks, who can literally flex your chainsword into stopping, and then it becomes ineffective again.

[pure kindle]

Bolters and Chainswords from human scale to Astartes also aren't made for armor.

That's reprinted in every codex and grounded novel and forgotten in every animation and bolterporn novel.

[uncut pebble]

Power swords yet again proving they are the objectively best weapons in this setting.

[tall torrent]

I can’t feel the “scavenge for ammo” part outside of havoc and CIVI maelstrom tbh

[uncut pebble]

Good thing astartes pattern chainswords and human pattern chainswords arent made the same, then, huh?

[uncut pebble]

This sounds less like a weapon issue and more like you are significantly overusing your bolter/flamer, to the point that you are running into ammo issues.

[tall torrent]

Autoguns are not very lore accurate (30-R mags carrying 50+ rounds)

And lasguns in this game are far weaker compared to lore

Can’t penetrate most enemies and doesn’t have nearly the same amount of sustained fire as lasguns in lore

Kantrael pattern lasguns can fire ~200 shots continuously before having to reload

In this game they fire 36~70

Kantrael lasguns also have automatic settings which aren’t here

[radiant chasm]

Tbf, i assume in the 38k years since our time, chainsaws made for combat would not be flawed in the same way our chainsaws are

[terse idol]

I will say I kinda learned to just pace my shots with exe and surgical with my boltgun on crushers rather than mag dumping when they're walking up to me

Just gotta be stingy with your ammo

[radiant chasm]

Or they would be advanced/good enough material to not care

[terse idol]

And how your kit works

[pure kindle]

They are made out of the same things. Then, a codex comes out to proudly brag about Blessed generic tracks of chainsword teeth, and relic jerry cans pf prometheum, and they can sell you a shiny new model for noblebright heroes in Warhammer 41k.

Darktide gets a bit silly with things like the Dueling Swords, Knives, and any implication that rejects survive more than the one mission: but all the other weapons do a pretty good job of portraying the more industrial reality of the setting.

[terse idol]

Well again

[radiant chasm]

Our chainsaws are made for trees, and have a ton of safety measure in place.

[terse idol]

Our rejects in theory in the lore are part of the larger inquisition unit

We're surviving more than 1 mission

Cause we're not regulars anymore

We're special forces

[tall torrent]

Idk what DT’s lore-accurate difficulty is

[terse idol]

Probably auric damn 😌

Maelstrom

[tall torrent]

It could have been havoc, it’s just that player damage is not remotely lore accurate in havoc

[radiant chasm]

Probably something like vt2’s canon

[pure kindle]

The flaw is that they're chainsaws, which are designed to do the things that chainsaws are designed to do and not the things that they aren't.

It's like saying that after enough millennia, we could invent a fork with advanced enough materials we could use it to eat soup.

[sleek garden]

just look at the cutscenes

[tall torrent]

Havoc is the closest to lore-accurate combat

[sleek garden]

everyone one shots each other

[terse idol]

Like in lore, theoretically there's

Many teams of inqusitioral agents on these missions

[sleek garden]

if it was lore accurate we'd be shaking like were firing ak's only shooting one shot every 2 seconds

[terse idol]

Our characters might only go on one but they probably do other things

[sleek garden]

because that happens in cutscenes for some reason

[terse idol]

There's just 50 other teams in conjunction I'm supposing

[hearty panther]

its not a flaw, its physics. it would only cut through without any pull back if it was literally a hot knife through butter, but their own lore says it totally cuts into and saws shit, and thats just cause its fucken cool lookin

[terse idol]

And our main missions are the really important ones

[pure kindle]

I think our weapons are too weak in Havoc, but it does do a way better job at portraying the reality of Nurgle turf better.

[terse idol]

Hmm

I mean groaners can take more than 1 lasgun shot to the body

That's pretty strong

Like this isn't getting into how tough carapace armour really is

[pure kindle]

If I shoot an unarmored human with a lasgun: the hole should be large enough that I could look through it and count how many of their buddies are still coming.

[uncut pebble]

No, our weapons are too strong for havoc. Nurgelites do not die easily.

You can put 40 holes through a nurgelite's chest and he will keep coming towards you.

[tall torrent]

Player’s damage in havoc is not remotely lore accurate

A pus hardened reaper takes 6 plasma headshots to kill

A battle hardened plague marine dies to 1 in lore

[uncut pebble]

The only real way of killing a nurgle worshipper is to destroy the head or outright obliterate them.

[terse idol]

It would just depend then frog

And we'll id just say trying to figure out how strong in love we are is tough

Considering uh ill say the cop out answer that

[pure kindle]

. . . so you're agreeing with me that our weapons are too weak in havoc.

[terse idol]

Writers change power levels all the time

For narrative purposes

[tall torrent]

Havoc is as lore accurate as it gets for how players approach combat scenarios, just player damage being far lower than in lore

[uncut pebble]

Headshots should be lethal, lorewise, and bodyshots should be treated as inconsequential outside of weapons like plasma and bolter.

[pure kindle]

The chosen and favored of Nurgle, sure.

The average Groaner, Scab, or Dreg are about as "chosen" by Nurgle as a Khornate cultist who just happened to get filled with shrapnel from the actual one "chosen" by their god.

[thorn lark]

harlequins vs golden banana boys

[pure kindle]

"BEHOLD, THE INCOMPREHENSIBLE SCHEMING INTELLIGENCE OF A TZEENTCHIAN FAVORED!"
Some scribe sent to grab a scroll for an Arch-Sorceror but forgot which alphabet they're alphabetized by drops their stub pistol when they see the strike team walk into the room, shooting themselves in the foot.

[radiant chasm]

Can’t wait for the new Realism modifier ala l4d2

[terse idol]

NOW TO BE FAIR

Harlequins are legendary

Evidentally to an extent higher than Custodes

Nooobody wants to see a harlequin, not even an eldar

[thorn lark]

that was not a solitaire

[terse idol]

Oh

[thorn lark]

that was run of the mill harlequins invading the palace and kill custodes

[errant carbon]

lorewise
Poxwalker walks up, gets killed, sprays infected bodily fluids everywhere, and then John Darktide was a zombie

[terse idol]

Eh harlequins are strong too

[terse idol]

No

We got vaccines and the emperors faith protects

Like straight up

IT WAS IN LORE

[radiant chasm]

Harlequins are the best of the best aeldari

[terse idol]

Yeah and then the harlequin solitaire are the best of the best harlequins

We stacking power levelsss

[radiant chasm]

Solitaire are basically named custode shield captains or maybe not idk

40k confusing but

[uncut pebble]

Armor of contempt is canon and protects you from such things.

That's what toughness is.

Plus, just to throw a curveball, associating things grants power to said things in lore.

I.e. Nurgle is powerful because he is associated with decay, disease, and death.

Our association with the Inquisition can potentially be protecting us.

This could also be why Grendyl chooses to initiate us into the warband in the way he does.

Proving oneself through service could be seen as an act of penance, to draw oneself closer to the Emperor, and through him, gain His protection from the powers of Chaos.

[fading kayak]

Let see how they fare against us our blessed reject crackheads of the Morningstar

[mental tendon]

So i managed to beat an auric once

I think if your audio system gives completely up you might have overdone it a tiny bit.

And i don´t see how i should fit more firepower into my veteran o.o

[coarse wolf]

try double barrel shotgun + mk1 shovel

[mental tendon]

Aside from mostly playing it with scream as ability.

[mental tendon]

yeah no. Even the bolter is at its limit.

At least on my end :/

[coarse wolf]

it's so much fun, play a normal board to get the hang of it but weapon specialist is the play

[tall torrent]

Melee

[coarse wolf]

dorn got me playing this on vet and i have not had this much fun playing dt in a long time

[mental tendon]

yeah but even than.

[tall torrent]

What are u mainly struggling with

[mental tendon]

the endurance drain on my reallife body / mental capacity.

[tall torrent]

Oh

Auric is not that bad

[mental tendon]

Plus minus Stealthogryns without any sounds spawning behind me.

It happened to someone else this round not me. So im not the only one.

[coarse wolf]

yeah that's just a bug with the audio engine

[tall torrent]

Yea crushers have no audio sometimes, it’s not quite “audio giving up”

[coarse wolf]

it has to do with the horde spawns being prioritized over elite and specials

[tall torrent]

Audio giving up would be maelstrom mutant modifier

20 mutant spawn and all u hear is them roaring

[mental tendon]

i mean this was just auric 4 and ogyrn spawns with some doggo.

I don´t think i want to see higher o.o

[tall torrent]

Auric heresy is a very funny difficulty

Idk what kind of player would mainly play that

[mental tendon]

probably the knife zealots that have become the CarpalTunnel themselves.

[tall torrent]

The logical jump is malice -> heresy -> damnation -> auric damnation -> auric maelstrom -> havoc 21+

[mental tendon]

what exactly is the havoc part and how do you access it?

[tall torrent]

Brute conscripts can be hard if ur team has no tools against them

[tall torrent]

Beat an auric maelstrom
Then go to the red & black coat lady patrolling near the mission terminal, access havoc terminal from there

Havoc has 40 ranks and progressively harder difficulty as u climb the ranks

Havoc 1-10 is malice scaling
Havoc 11-20 is heresy scaling
Havoc 21-30 is damnation scaling
Havoc 31-40 is true havoc scaling

[mental tendon]

ah okay

good to know

guess i have to settle for the screaming-vet

[tall torrent]

Havoc is the mode u go to if u want to experience “lore-accurate lasgun damage”

[coarse wolf]

[mental tendon]

from my own las gun right? (padme-stare)

right?

[coarse wolf]

i fucking wish

[tall torrent]

[mental tendon]

mmmhhmmm....

Where is the Space Marine special deployment for that

[tall torrent]

Nah they’d wipe within 2 mins

[mental tendon]

okay than the Soroitas instead

[tall torrent]

They might scale a little bit better with holy miracles and all that but not all SoB can do it

So more like wipe on first contact

[supple laurel]

@umbral grove I ALMOST DID IT AGAIN 😭

[void dragon]

Ninga demonheads

[tall torrent]

The astartes deployment would look smth like this

Battle brother straben has his chainsword stuck inside a Dreg rager and fails to push a poxburster, whose melta charge insta kills the whole squad

[coarse wolf]

[hearty panther]

one survives, but since their legs are busted by the blast they cant sprint slide anymore so they get shredded by a scab shooter

[pseudo fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/space-marine-2-death-space-marine-2-gif-12976716491498684396

[uncut pebble]

No ears having mf.

[frank basin]

You means how it feel being shot by lore accurate lasgun?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[chilly saddle]

Is catch a breath (replenish 5% toughness per second when there are no enemies within 8m) a completely worthless talent

[frank basin]

So like is a death sentence difficulty in payday 2

[tall torrent]

No

[chilly saddle]

Expand on that

Interesting

Holy shit that was fast btw

[tall torrent]

think of it as
passive toughness gain that's independent from coherency, and works whenever u don't have melee kills for toughness

(which is literally how it works)

[chilly saddle]

1 talent point for twinned blast or 2 points for grenade tinkerer using shredders
Or skip both

[tall torrent]

what does ur build look like

[uncut pebble]

Catch a breath also makes you immune to pox gas.

[tall torrent]

Nah, it doesn’t give that much

[uncut pebble]

Like the junk that comes out of the ground on those modifier maps when not in melee.

[tall torrent]

It gives u a bit more breathing room

[tall torrent]

Oh no

What weapons are u using

[chilly saddle]

New account
Ditched 2000 hour Xbox account and started from scratch on ps5
Using bolter with shattering and puncture and a mk6 power sword
Just got untouchable on damnation at 26

[supple laurel]

its not ears, its eyes bro

im blind as fuck

[tall torrent]

Ok I’d suggest some changes

I’d recommend this for boltgun on veteran

[mental tendon]

There is no proper Kasrkin cosmetic in the shop either right?

[tall torrent]

There was

It’s out of rotation

It’s also quite buggy

[umbral grove]

[tall torrent]

I think the new snowhound cosmetics are some of the best we have for veteran

[chilly saddle]

Keep in mind I’m using a ps5 controller so I need to pad the survivability a bit and not use a dueling sword

[tall torrent]

I don’t use duelling sword for that

And it’s mostly fine in terms of survivability

It deals enough dps to remove pretty much everything that’s threatening

U don’t rly need shattering impact on boltgun for veteran

U can reach crusher 3HS fairly easily without shattering impact so it’s mostly redundant

[chilly saddle]

Also I wanna run shout, power sword and shredders melts hordes and bolter with shattering and puncture doesn’t seem to need any help at all
Also game is 4k on ps5 with some upscaling help so I haven’t had any trouble at all spotting and deleting every ranged specialist

[tall torrent]

I rly do think exe is by far the best way to run boltgun for veteran

[chilly saddle]

Gotta remember I’m using a controller lol

[tall torrent]

Yea u don’t even need headshots to 1 tap things

With exe stance

[chilly saddle]

I dump body shots around shoulder level for close up ogryns

You run that in havoc ?

[tall torrent]

You want to run boltgun for havoc?

[chilly saddle]

Yessir

[tall torrent]

This definitely needs changes for havoc

[chilly saddle]

Yeah it’s not optimal lol I’m not even 30 yet in this account

2 garbage curios

Weapons at 200

Good enough to get untouchable on damnation tho

[hollow ibex]

don't worry about havoc for a very long time

[tall torrent]

Last 5 points depends on ur preference

Can drop marksman if u can’t hit weakspots

[chilly saddle]

Why no close order drill, just passive damage reduction, and confirmed kill when you’re picking elites non stop?

[tall torrent]

I think O4B scales better into havoc because being able to get toughness from all kills is better than getting more toughness from specific enemies, in a mode where ranged mobs can just delete u

U can run close order drill but I don’t feel like spending too much up top is worth much for veteran

5 points remaining could be grenade tinkerer + grenadier at the same time

[chilly saddle]

40 viable?

[tall torrent]

This is for auric

[uncut pebble]

Boltgun doesn't scale well for havocs, unfortunately.

You have to squeeze every last ounce of damage out of it to make it work.

That's building into crit headshots + puncture.

It's doable, but not exactly viable.

You'd be better off building for a recon for havocs.

[mental tendon]

@tall torrent is tactical axe a good melee option for the higher difficulties?

[tall torrent]

It’s fun

But

I wish it was better

[mental tendon]

i would use the powersword... if it felt like one.

And not like a malfunctioning insect-fryer.

[chilly saddle]

Ahhh

Auric is a literal cake walk with any veteran build

[tall torrent]

A lot of weapons just get casually fucked over by pus hardened skin, and boltgun is too much of a centerpiece weapon for veteran

Plus low ammo

[wise wren]

Real shit whoever told me that onslaught was bad on recon fumbled real hard

[tall torrent]

It’s niche

[wise wren]

Its been a day straight of using this shit and the ttk on stuff like crushers is evident

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s like only relevant vs crushers

[chilly saddle]

For 2 years it’s been 100% essential for that gun

[tall torrent]

Which melee kills better most of the time

[tall torrent]

Nah lol

[wise wren]

Yeah but I like running shock troop and conscript missions so

[tall torrent]

It matters for just 1 enemy

[hollow ibex]

nah, it's still a trap

[mental tendon]

not if they sneak up on you

[chilly saddle]

Monsters too and monstrous specials is the peak Darktide experience

[mental tendon]

but than ranged doesnt help either

[wise wren]

To be fair dueling sword needs no ramp up

[chilly saddle]

Dueling sword is cringe though

[tall torrent]

It’s not the biggest boost vs monsters and recon isn’t a boss dps gun in the first place

[wise wren]

Also being flanked in this game is a skill issue most times

[chilly saddle]

Recon las with infernus and scriers is the single best monstrous specials answer for Psyker in the entire game

[wise wren]

I think what they mean is it falls off against monstrosities which I do agree

[tall torrent]

Nah, autogun still kills faster

Besides that’s not even veteran

[uncut pebble]

[wise wren]

And yeah onslaught works best against crushers n whatnot but atleast in my experience in auric I never see them in groups smaller than 3 and they spawn really consistently

[hollow ibex]

duelling sword was balanced by the incompetence of psykers in melee combat

but now that vets and zealot have it...

[uncut pebble]

Vraks autogun does better. Infernus blue recon is best for countershooting on psyker, though, but thats only because you dont have access to ammo economy talents that vet does.

Tap a shooter, light him on fire, and move on to your next target to save ammo.

[chilly saddle]

Off topic
You know what I hate about havoc
No consignment yard
The single best map on Darktide and it’s not even close

[wise wren]

No way even without melee perks that shit still one shots most elites

[unreal nova]

Just give it to Oggy. Fair game then, yes?

[hollow ibex]

i'd olove to see ogryn use a DS

just for that, i'd say give it to oggy

[uncut pebble]

Ogryns get 3 duelling swords strapped to their forearm and use it as claws.

[chilly saddle]

What is this. Tooth pick?

[wise wren]

In my experience with pre armory update my issue deadass was finding a single weapon that didnt roll abyssmal stats

[cloud thunder]

No one talking about zealot thunder hammer for bosses?

[hollow ibex]

nah you didnt' see people complain about DS very much before, now it's poster boy for OP weapon

[wise wren]

To be fair back then you couldnt get like perfect rolls on it either
Doesnt the thing have damage, finesse and penetration?

[unreal nova]

Dump cleave damage.

[hollow ibex]

it's still a relatively easy weapon to roll back then

you could dump two stats

[uncut pebble]

Ds4 has two stats that don't matter.

[hollow ibex]

whereas many weapons could only dump one

[uncut pebble]

Ds2 kinda wants cleave damage because h2 is a sweep.

Ds5 doesnt have cleave damage, it has defences instead, so still 2 dumps.

[unreal nova]

Dump pen then.

Press dodge for funny with WS.

[uncut pebble]

Ah right I'll just max both dodge stats and trimp myself up and over a ledge.

[wise wren]

Who needs dodge when you can just bet on Duck and Dive

[unreal nova]

Yep.

[uncut pebble]

Because duck and dive means nothing when youre fighting 24 dreg ragers.

[wise wren]

Clearly you just arent running fast enough

[uncut pebble]

Ds5 literally lets you outpace them with side dodges.

[unreal nova]

Agile+uncanny pen dump ds5.

[uncut pebble]

If I see anybody running agile in general I just assume they are terrible at melee.

[unreal nova]

Or just lazy.

[uncut pebble]

Laziness in the face of melee still means you are terrible.

[hollow ibex]

If I see anybody running DS in general I just assume they are terrible at melee.

[uncut pebble]

I mean, agile rolls on taxe, too.

Played around with it for a bit, its good fun taking 0 damage, but you gimp your outgoing damage, too.

[unreal nova]

Dunno, rather just use knoife then.

Short range stabs fun.

[wise wren]

I honestly picked agile because of the weakspot damage
precog is probably better by a mile tho

[unreal nova]

Precog goes away too quickly though.

[wise wren]

yeah

its just 10% more weakspot damage for free and it comes with the refreshes

Bad at melee or not I'd rather people take abilities that keep them alive over them downing

[unreal nova]

Just spam lights at head level in case of panics.

[uncut pebble]

You know what keeps people from downing? Killing things and managing defensive options correctly.

Agile gimps your damage and allows you to mismanage defensive options.

So its just a bad blessing due to low damage output and development of bad habits.

[wise wren]

I mean yeah but party finder is party finder

[uncut pebble]

TLDR its a skill issue on the agile user's part.

[austere mica]

Agile can be replicated with player skill (aside from the 10%)

[terse idol]

Well imo isn't your damage still crazy because of uncanny?

Agile ain't the worse

Uncanny is also like a 2 second window

[austere mica]

You're on a weapon with the best dodges in the game

[terse idol]

I mean

Precog

[terse idol]

Just make it better

I don't think it's too much of a loss to forego precog

Because uncanny

[austere mica]

5-8 in this case, its fucking DS

[tall torrent]

Dodge refresh is 0.85s

[hearty panther]

man, smokes should go off on impact

[austere mica]

-3/5 dodges on a DS5 is comparable to some weapons 5/5

[wise wren]

Honestly I think I'd rather use riposte over precog

[tall torrent]

I need to look into code for dodge animation time

[hearty panther]

class dependent and then weapon mod factors in dodge speed

[wise wren]

I know its not precog strong but I rather 6s cc over the 2s finesse

[tall torrent]

Precog is is very funny on zealot because of one thing

[hearty panther]

ye same, vet depends if im using recip though

[hearty panther]

if i have recip ill skip riposte or uncanny for flesh tearer

[wise wren]

also brittleness is for carpace only right?

[tall torrent]

No

But it mainly matters for carapace

Most weapons don’t have abysmal dogshit ADM vs flak, maniac and unyielding

[wise wren]

if only there was a word for this

[hearty panther]

there isnt not a word for it

[wise wren]

fair

wait unyielding as well?

[tall torrent]

I will create a term and just call it “rend-able”

[hearty panther]

crushers lookin hot and rendable

[wise wren]

Yeah did light testing, with onslaught ive got like 3s TTK and without its like 8s TTK on crushers

[tall torrent]

Rending & brittleness affect
Flak
Maniac
Unyielding
Carapace

Most weapons don’t do poorly against all of them at once

[wise wren]

I was testing body shots there

aka just worst case

[austere mica]

Breaks through pus hardened with infernus

[hearty panther]

plus stupid bottomless ammo talent

[wise wren]

whats the other perk you want instead of it?

[austere mica]

Just make a second gun

[wise wren]

I keep Infernus on because if I have to reload mid executionar stance the burns more likely to get the kill and extend it

[terse idol]

The reload isn't that long on recon that you'll lose exe for a single reload

For a bolter absolutely

[hearty panther]

check path's guide in da pins, he has the reload cancel animated in there

[heavy rover]

huh, never thought of infernus with executioner stance like that

[wise wren]

I keep messing up the tech a bit

[hearty panther]

its legit like a 1s reload time

tap tap get reloaded

[tall torrent]

I don’t actually

[hearty panther]

YOU DONT

[hollow ibex]

with tac reload you can sustain ES with bolter

[hearty panther]

sprint is faster

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/gK_Q4jHaEsM

[terse idol]

[wise wren]

Yeah no im not running Tac reload because even if I do fuck up the stack I usually have ES up for so long I can just recast it

[hearty panther]

see a medical servitor if your xstance lasts longer than four minutes

[hollow ibex]

oh no azreal likes gambling too

[hearty panther]

it makes way too much sense in havoc

youre throwing out like eighty fucking grenades a round

[tall torrent]

Buddy u rolled a 1.168% chance of twinned blast working once out of 24 grenades I think u are a better gambler than most of us

[terse idol]

Demo is pretty alright with how many

[wise wren]

I love my excecutionar stance

[hollow ibex]

clearly on the winning side there

[terse idol]

Erhm

How many folks you kill to proc demo

[hearty panther]

you dont have to

just stick with the team and theyll fall in your pocket

[terse idol]

Also the dopamine hit when you hit twinned blasy

[tall torrent]

on avg 20
in practice

[terse idol]

Kino

[wise wren]

Whats demo again?

[terse idol]

Thats not bad!

[wise wren]

oh right

demo team

[tall torrent]

Funny how the most breakpoint heavy class is also the most RNG dependent

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925855860557746267/1148583910691836006/JMYS0W5RDOL7U41RPH.gif

[wise wren]

The beauty of high level in this game is that you want more elite enemies than you do trash mobs because of the shit their keywords proc

[hearty panther]

"ugh this horde is taking forever, i wish eight shotgunners would spawn so i could take care of everything here" - me as psyker

[wise wren]

ES is so strong to me just for the sole reason it lets you tunnel vision elites

[hearty panther]

it lets me pretend im a psyker playing dd

[wise wren]

Also real shit

I just got vet to level 30 making that all 4 classes for me

[hollow ibex]

that reminds me, is there any mod that changes ES's highlight color to something else?

[wise wren]

What the fuck is the Ogryn's speciality
I like playing em but deadass I thought they were good tanks but mfkr even veterans got that on kill toughness regen buff

[hollow ibex]

the yellow is legit invisible when there's a lot of fire

is there a setting or mod for that?

fires absolutely fuck my visibility

maybe i should turn down settings 🤔

[tall torrent]

U can turn it off

“I wanna see” mod

[hollow ibex]

ok cool thanks

[tall torrent]

Allows u to disable the fire stream effects from both flamer and inferno

[hollow ibex]

well i don't want to turn it completely off

i do have the mod

it's bomber fires usualy that are the real issue

for me at least

[tall torrent]

Why do u need to see the fire stream if its only purpose is to blind u

It doesn’t turn off enemies’ fire patches

Only teammates’ fire attack stream

[hollow ibex]

because i'm usually the only one running a flamer, and it feels fucking beautiful

[wise wren]

Okay listen that mod is fine but the only thing that confuses me from its options is the psyker bubble being gone

[hollow ibex]

but actually maybe i'll turn off fires anyway

[wise wren]

outside of that v helpful

[hollow ibex]

i switched over to bolters for zealot

[tall torrent]

I think that one is nice as long as u set the radius to be a really visible color

I have mine on like bright turquoise

[hollow ibex]

yeah i run flamer in havoc

[wise wren]

Question for survivalist
is it every 5 seconds globally or is it player dependant

[tall torrent]

global

[wise wren]

Wierd
Wait so is shock trooper from reserves or from nothing when it refunds ammo

[tall torrent]

the only player dependent part is the amount of ammo they gain because it scales each player's own respective reserve ammo pool

[tall torrent]

shock trooper is just "crit doesn't consume ammo"

[terse idol]

Hmm, so shocktrooper applies to the crit chain in a recon?

[wise wren]

Im surprised it works well on recon yeah

[tall torrent]

Yes. Both crits in a string

[terse idol]

I love helbore in no ammo scab only missions

[wise wren]

wait

wrong react

still love this thing

[tall torrent]

U just gotta believe

[wise wren]

whats the thing with bolt pistol?

[tall torrent]

Lethal proximity applies to all explosions

Including your own grenades

[terse idol]

Its intended

[tall torrent]

It’s just intended gameplay

[wise wren]

lmao what the fuck

[terse idol]

At least, one of the first builds that came out of Secrets was the milkncookie show case of the shock maul with bistol and LP iirc

[wise wren]

So does agile increase weakspot damage of guns or like is it just a lethal and grenade thing

[terse idol]

I thought frag dmg got nerfed with uncanny, wtf

[tall torrent]

It’s just that blessing being very funny and totally intended

[terse idol]

Do you just sprint to burn your stamina and then throw a grenade?

Oh yeah

[tall torrent]

There’s one other blessing also being very funny but it’s not as strong

[terse idol]

Love me hotshot on shovel

Need more 3 blessing interactions with weapons

Love having, uncanny, skull crusher and hotshot on a melee weapon

[tall torrent]

Make hotshot a talent for veteran

[terse idol]

Railgun zealot my beloved

[tall torrent]

BM limbsplitter bayonet

[terse idol]

O

[wise wren]

btw is havoc character based or account based

[tall torrent]

Account

[austere mica]

You could kill 120 bosses in one swing if you got them low first

[wise wren]

Cool need to figure out what class to run for it then
most likely not psyker but as much as I like ogryn vet and zealot feel stronger by a mile

esp with versatility

[tall torrent]

Psyker > zealot > veteran > ogryn

In terms of ease-of-use and team impact
The inverse of that order is skill requirement to play them well

First veteran survivalist + any gun, second veteran tinkerer fire team boltpistol

[summer lance]

why is it 2500???

[tall torrent]

As long as 1 vet runs survivalist every other vet can run the funny grenade build

[terse idol]

Just play crab vet

[uncut pebble]

Gunker allows you to remove fading light as a mechanic.

[terse idol]

Or do it naturally over a few months

[summer lance]

yeah, that looks like what im gonna be doing

[tall torrent]

Crab walk farm mercantile entry for 5 games, use melee

[uncut pebble]

Though your team will not like you very much because you hoover ammo.

[austere mica]

You can also run Zarona combat shotgun

And not hate yourself

[summer lance]

iv just been doing quickplay for this, i just got the smoke and focus target one done

also farming mastery, nearly done with heavy sword and braced autogun

the infilitrate one shouldn't be that hard just looking at it

that one however, is gonna be BS

methodical can suck eggs

[uncut pebble]

That's what I'm getting at, pubber havoc players do not understand ammo conservation. I played an h40 where I had to ask the flamer zealout repeatedly to conserve ammo because they were wasting it doing m1 puffs on things that I was already butchering with my fgs.

Then he was mad because I had like 520 ammo taken.

I'm like "bro you arent getting shot at there's nothing to complain about."

[summer lance]

its that most of them are related to abilities/blitzes that i straight up dont/wouldn't use otherwise

like stealth and smokes

methodical soudns hard as shit though honestly

brb, going into another malice

[summer lance]

that sucked

lotta crabwalking

hopeuflly melee kills count

please god let it be a 4th of the way done

:(

[barren nimbus]

Just use the 15 stacks one, every headshot kill you get lets you move around freely

[terse idol]

He's doing the crab walk method

[summer lance]

dodging while crab walking doesn't count as a "move", so i can use that a bit ig

the krak grenade one is probably gonna take longer

[terse idol]

Krak grenade isn't bad because you can throw it at scab shooters (the small guys)

And scab stalkers

(The small guys with the chainmail cowl on their face)

[summer lance]

[hearty panther]

"aha, im gonna totally style on this burster by bonking it with my butt stock"
-turns on a flashlight-
"wait oh shit"

[tall torrent]

Farm damnation high intensity

[summer lance]

can't really do that alone, and quickplay pubs are not an option for that either

just lost a malice clutch because a trapper sounded right on top of me, and im looking for it, then shoot something else for a half second then IMMEDIATELY get netted

[tall torrent]

u playing rn?

[summer lance]

yeah

you up to help? would be huge

[tall torrent]

what's ur friend code

[tall torrent]

sure

editing guide is tiresome

[summer lance]

2415322906

gonna switch to bolter to make this a tad bit quicker

[tall torrent]

what penance are u doing

[summer lance]

killshot ready

[tall torrent]

don't use boltgun

use axe

melee kills count

[summer lance]

i dont have a good combat axe on my vet, got a good power sword though

jesus christ that level

[tall torrent]

that's fine too

any melee that kills hordes quickly

[summer lance]

got it, you want to pick the mission?

[tall torrent]

U down to vc?

[summer lance]

sure, what channel?

[tall torrent]

https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1032364932093714492

[narrow frost]

lol

[tall torrent]

I didn’t play that much

[grand perch]

more than me last i checked, i merely stacked my levels mostly on 1 char

[barren nimbus]

I’ve played a lot and my main is only level 33, they must have massively reduced exp

[tame void]

I saw someone 1700 yesterday, showers are optional i guess

[solar monolith]

y'all what's the setup for rashad 1hs bruiser bp

do i need precision strikes?

[narrow frost]

[tall torrent]

yes

[solar monolith]

i couldn't find any breakpoints in the pinned guide

[tall torrent]

Precision strikes
Desperado
Trench fighter drill

Unarmored perk helps with scab bruiser 1 tap without headtaker

[solar monolith]

i was thinking of maybe dropping precision because i have agile engagement

[tall torrent]

What does ur talent tree look like

[solar monolith]

alas

okay fine i lied a little i wanted to drop precision for tink & twinned blast 😔

db ws should be more than enough to handle hordes, right?

[last marten]

whats the point of the frag grenade

[solar monolith]

big bleed

instant horde deletion

[tall torrent]

Does ur axe have max damage

[solar monolith]

aye

unless some rounding error shenanigans are abound

tbf in combat i should be getting at least an ht stack so like this is probably an edge case

is the krak meme worth it

[solar monolith]

oh this one was without precision strikes btw

[sleek garden]

lots of scab shooters to plink heads

[last marten]

is there a trick to it

[solar monolith]

tinkerer, a bolt pistol with Lethal Proximity, and a melee with Uncanny if you're feeling spicy

[tall torrent]

Oh it’s because u don’t have unarmored

[solar monolith]

oh right i forgot their heads are unarmored

thanks

does +flak hit any important bps?

or +maniac i guess

i could probably drop +cara for something else because, well, kraks

[hollow ibex]

bruh

fuckers bringing a level 18 into AM

predictably, we didn't even make it past the first event

[wild vortex]

I'd have just quit lol

[hollow ibex]

i wasn't paying attention, was multitasking lol

[solar monolith]

don't you need to be 30 for aurics?

[slow sky]

teehee

[slow sky]

to queue for them, but you dont have to be 30 to be dragged in by someone who is

[wanton dawn]

Teehee

There could even be weirdo out there with 5 digits now

[grim widget]

what are the best perks for the plasma gun right now?

[narrow frost]

[faint beacon]

give it 1.5 more years me thinks

[umbral scaffold]

Can the plasma gun be supressed?

[stoic thorn]

Me when I'm Low-key carrying with a recon lasgun and chainsword but my team throwing

And then darktide lowkey doesn't want you to play so infinite loading screen

[wanton dawn]

no

Dont take determined

[umbral scaffold]

thanks

[warm bolt]

Ah i see, thanks a lot man!

Gonna pick up a combat knife then

sorry for late reply it was like 1 am at the time and i just kinda turned off lol

[warm bolt]

The final boss is error 2014 actually

[vernal trench]

why the discrimination man

[light ridge]

Seeing a lot of these 19s in Damnation and up lately
I think it's because Dukane gets the quest marker at that lvl

[tropic notch]

I love taking low levels on field trips

I don’t think I’d throw them into a 3 veg though

[pliant surge]

Guys. I think I'm a warrior

[odd sparrow]

being a low level in damnation is not nearly as bad after the crafting update since getting weapons with good stats is no longer as tied to character level

[unreal nova]

Truly the hardest boss to beat as is its brothers and sisters.

[unreal nova]

They can do malice mael though if they don't wanna be annoying.

[magic sinew]

best melee for single target?

[vernal trench]

dueling sword

[unreal nova]

Or knoife if you don't wanna get flak for using DS.

Or Combat Axe if you don't want flak for using DS or knoife.

[pliant surge]

When am I gonna see a 4 man infantry Las gun run

[light ridge]

I guess level doesn't mean everything
A few days ago a lvl 22 almost clutched a run and last night I had a run with lvl 120+ (included a lvl 465) who kept fighting mobs instead of getting the batteries for the bridge
The 180ish PS vet even 3 times failed to push a poxburster as I watched over his shoulder due to me try to be team player and heroicly pick up the 4 wound psyker (again)
...

[unreal nova]

To be fair, when a lvl 9 psyker carries your game... you start lulling at the other two dolts.

Heresy.

[light ridge]

Lol, you can get away with a lot at the lower difficulties starting a new game as an experienced player
Just get some weapons, consecrate them and slap on lvl 4 blessing

[unreal nova]

Yep.

Still psyker sucks till 16+

[wanton dawn]

I am guilty of playing wacky build when lowering diff

And regretting it when ppl move SLLOOOWWWLLLYY through the lvl

[unreal nova]

Cos carapace. I do like 4 damage if no crits.

[vernal trench]

I didnt even do a 40 today

N its reset day

[light ridge]

I did a 26 once, then no more
I probably should start running more Havocs to unlock the rest of the cosmetics

[north nimbus]

wait ready killshot i can't move when i build up stacks ???

so what i am like living turret 😄

[vernal trench]

Wat that

[tropic halo]

Yeah

You will need to stay still to build stacks for the keystone

[vernal trench]

Marksman focus?

[north nimbus]

lol ok i was wrong maybe taht is more stupid then zealot one

[vernal trench]

Na

[north nimbus]

yeah

[vernal trench]

As long as u get a headshot every few seconds u can run jump slide whatever

And its easy to buuld it back up

[tropic halo]

Yeah if it with hordes and you know how to aim you can build stacks pretty easily

[vernal trench]

Its good for weapons that u wanna shoot a lot

[north nimbus]

i am more concern that you need to kill 2500 guys

[tropic halo]

Recon Lasgun is the best option

[north nimbus]

o good so my bolt pistol will cry 😄

[tropic halo]

That is a awful one to complete

[north nimbus]

maybe that is some of one i wont complet

[tropic halo]

Honestly really the worst keystone in the game lol

[north nimbus]

to be fair martyrdom kills was also pain to do

[vernal trench]

Its good if u use exec stance with i

It

[north nimbus]

it was not kill but fact you need to drop hp so low and rest of the team wonder why you not heal like a moron and ogryns and mauler and chaos spawn rampeg around you

like all psyker one are easy or more natural to do it not forcing you to do anything really weird

Veteran and zealot force you to do some stuff that go against what game is

also about recon lasgun what version is well best or most optimal

[tropic halo]

If I remember the mark well I went with the Accatran Mk XII

[north nimbus]

i try that and it was little mehh

will try XIV

[tropic halo]

I forgot what are marks and names but I went with the one that is in the middle between

Like it has good fire rate and stable recoil to be able consistently headshot all hordes

[north nimbus]

yeah

ok so not that hard stak go up fast and it don't care if is headshot

[north nimbus]

ok killshot ready 540/2500 done nice

[visual badge]

recon lasgun + exe stance + headshot weakspot keystone

takes a bit but you'll get it done

just unload into every horde you see

but also make sure to actually be useful and use it on ranged enemies

[terse idol]

Just play crab vet

[north nimbus]

you man crouch and move 😄

[terse idol]

Take camoflauge, crouch and melee

[north nimbus]

yeah

i also did stay alert in one mission 😄

i want a bolt gun 😄

[dry cloak]

then get yourself one

[warm bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/csgo-lmao-lmfao-wtf-creepy-gif-4690411

Nurgle beware

[agile forge]

Rather than Recon, consider the Vraks 5 Infantry Autogun for an MF build too

MF Deadshot Exec Stance Vraks 5 absolutely fucking slaps

[ocean ferry]

so im new how does upgrading weapons work? is it kinda like destiny where your looking for a high power level weapon? then you upgrade it like that?

[agile forge]

take all of the damage bonus good shit from the middle tree too

[agile forge]

You are looking for a perfect finalised substat distribution, which means you are usually looking for a perfect dump stat

for instance, on a combat axe, you want one which will cap its mobility out at 60 (and thus all of its other stats at 80)

every other element of the weapon can be modified quite cheaply in the grand scheme of things

You can modify the perks and blessings as often as you like for a pittance. The biggest remaining cost is just to level the weapon up to 500.

if you don't have the masteries to build a perfect god weapon yet, then you can also just take Melk weapons that are at least fixed to 500 for you

but in the long run you will build your own perfect 80/80/80/80/60 shit.

[ocean ferry]

i see

[agile forge]

Most of my weapons were bought as a level 300 grey from Brunt.

[errant carbon]

Vetcrab animation when

[agile forge]

Bear in mind that you can also modify the weapon's mark, so don't be alarmed that Brunt is just spamming the same weapon at you

[terse idol]

i will say, wait until you're level 30 to find a perfect stat distribution

[granite vault]

How to level up to level 40?

[terse idol]

It'll just save ya more money in the long haul, if you can find a perfect stat weapon though (mobility or defense dump typically) just keep it and upgrade slowly as you level

[steep flower]

You don’t

[terse idol]

There is only level 30 max

[steep flower]

Maximum lv is 30

[granite vault]

ko

ok

[ocean ferry]

bet

[tropic halo]

Theres level/rank 40 for Havoc though

But the classes level are 30 max

[umbral scaffold]

So I just tried combat knife with braced autogun and did my first damnation. Wow what a combo the gun melts heavies

[hollow ibex]

bad horde clear combo though

[terse idol]

Imo the mk6 combat knife kills hordes decently

[hollow ibex]

it's ok

i don't like mk6 knife though

[faint beacon]

L PA mixes then if it’s MkIII

[hollow ibex]

i've just given up on knife in general since i don't play the mk6 lol

[terse idol]

You should give it a week at leeast

Mk6 is like

Really good

It just takes more learning than most weapons imo

Or at least getting the muscle memory for some of the stuff can be weird

[hollow ibex]

nah hurts my hand, and that's a dealbreaker instantly

the combos aren't hard

i can use the weapon perfectly fine

[terse idol]

[unreal nova]

Too much clicking or trigger pulling.

My controller lets me rock the trigger lightly to light attack but even then...

Still, I like my mk6.

[tropic notch]

I like the punch on the mk3 only because of captain shields

But I still haven’t messed with the mk 6 on my vet

How good is it the mk6 in havoc?

[unreal nova]

Low havocs fine. Never used vet in anything high so IDK.

[north nimbus]

do veteran have normal auto rifle where you press rmb and you aim like recone lasgun ?

[crimson pebble]

infantry autogun

no flash light tho only a bash

[tall torrent]

infantry autogun has flashlight

[crimson pebble]

mayb i forgor

was thinking braced i guess

[faint beacon]

You’re thinking Vigilants if you’re thinking of bashing

That or Braced iirc

[north nimbus]

burst weapon are cool to

[hollow ibex]

headhunter autoguns

[north nimbus]

easy to use for stuff as headshoot

[hollow ibex]

or vigilants are they are called now 🤮

[north nimbus]

yep infantry autogun is normal gun thx

[errant carbon]

They're easy to get mixed up tbf

marksman rifle
give it a wire stock

rifle has a wire stock
give it a bash attack

[faint beacon]

See I completely forget that it even has a wire stock cause I give it a full stock in WC

But that shit would snap with some of the things you hit it with

Also it’s maniac ADM is probably the only crime I can say about the VA rifles

[errant carbon]

I completely forgot because I haven't used any autogun in like a year

[faint beacon]

Me who’s been using them for ages cause I fucking despise plasma

And like having good ammo Econ

[wanton dawn]

Plasma has not a bad ammo econ

Just say that you like dousing shower laser

[errant carbon]

My ability to compensate for recoil was never that great and is now completely cooked by lack of practice and decrepitude (i.e. pushing 35)

[faint beacon]

Me who’s made use of the most unpredictable VA variant that kicks all over the place

Idk I feel like playing the thing and simply suffering through it conditions you to it

[tall torrent]

That would be VII, not IX

[faint beacon]

I’ve seen people say both variants have terrible recoil patterns yet I’ve never really noticed it on either

[errant carbon]

The two shot burst one used to have both terrible recoil and a long delay between the two shots in the burst

Made it basically a semi-auto with extra steps that's also significantly worse

I also vaguely remember when the 3 shot burst one had a silly broken finesse modifier or something

[junior needle]

v7 had bad recoil if you full auto'd it, but would typically reset by the time your surgical stacked so it was much less noticeable

agri 9 had the worst recoil of the burst fires

No real upside over the v3 back then

[tall torrent]

After they changed recoil for them, VII has the worst

[junior needle]

Oh, when did that happen?

[grim widget]

is chain axe not in a good spot at the moment?

[tall torrent]

There was an update to vigilant autogun and infantry autogun recoil

Can’t remember when that was

[junior needle]

Must've been after the renaming

[tall torrent]

No

Way earlier

[junior needle]

Hmmmmmmm

[tall torrent]

Patch 14? 15?

[dry cloak]

both makrs perfectly usble

[junior needle]

Last I checked the chainaxes were mediocre for horde clearing and that's why they don't feel that great

[dry cloak]

both are good

i use them on regular

[junior needle]

It's fine if the single shot that waits for surgical isn't the best at going full auto

The v3 had this weird scaling with the stability

Where high stab was really stable and below that it got comically out of control really fast for no reason

[junior needle]

They could've been buffed since I stopped playing, I'm out of date

[errant carbon]

Chainaxe is secretly a better Eviscerator (not that it's a high bar)

[soft trellis]

Good job on lowering the already low bar.

[errant carbon]

"At least it's still not as bad as the Mk1 Dclaw"
– Statements by the utterly coped-out

[soft trellis]

The mk1 dclaw... the only weapon worse than the mk4 taxe...

[dry cloak]

we all know worst weapon is sutopistol

[soft trellis]

I'd say the autopistol easily wins against the mk1 dclaw lol

[hollow ibex]

bro mk4 taxe is great 😠

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[hearty panther]

MK1 Dclaw is the worst weapon.

Honestly not even close.

[errant carbon]

||taxes are theft||
But seriously, I don't use the tactical axes but their fans seem to agree that one of the marks is terrible

[soft trellis]

probably followed by the autopistol

[hearty panther]

Nah, Autopistol is genuinely getting heavy use and strong result at H40

Not in the way you might expect

But it is

[hollow ibex]

not sure which one, but i just use mk4 for the light spam lol

[hearty panther]

Instant draw on-demand toughness and stagger/suppression

[hollow ibex]

for stagger or something? 🤔

[hearty panther]

Inspiring Barrage

[soft trellis]

That's one of its primary uses outside of havoc...

[north nimbus]

those lasgun's my fail bayonet my band but shovel with me my only friend

[hearty panther]

Its kind of a meme outside of Havocs because you just don't need it period. In Havocs ranged output so much damage and can be so tanky (pus hardened) that your ranged existing just to suppress and boost your toughness is actually very viable

[soft trellis]

My brain...

No...

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-meme-brain-smooth-chatbubble-gif-16562439958126711181

[hearty panther]

DClaw 1 though, is just shit. No single-target heavy strikedown makes it trash.

[errant carbon]

Ranged weapons not killing shit anyways so you might as well get more stagger and suppression for your time and ammo? Plus you can draw it fast and run fast with it, being a pistol. Would be my guess

[hearty panther]

Correct.

[soft trellis]

but yeah the autopistol's strengths are: trapper and dreg rager killing... and toughnes generation... pretty much

[hearty panther]

Suppression and stagger.

[junior needle]

I found the mk4 (assuming the mk hasn't been changed) to actually be a good lightspam weapon

[soft trellis]

It can do those yeah, but, outside of havoc those are side uses

[hearty panther]

No like, its stats in those categories are genuinely nuts.

[junior needle]

Was more enjoyable to use than the other taxe variants which needed the heavy spam/weaving

[hearty panther]

Irrespective of use case, those are its unique attributes.

[soft trellis]

It's great at stagger, yeah. I never really looked at suppression capabilities

[tall torrent]

I don't bother checking its suppression

anything it's going to suppress, the stagger kicks in before that

[hearty panther]

At 16 rounds per second its gonna suppress quite a bit unless the number were 0

but its like ... four or five? iirc?

slightly above the BAGs with a higher fire rate

shit do be ducking even if you cant be precise