veteran-class

[sullen jackal]

However, if you're close enough compared to the target, they'll swap to you. Yeah.

[uncut pebble]

So despite me engaging some 20 ranged elites with my gun, they'll see me as not busy because my slots are unoccupied?

[sullen jackal]

surprisingly they don't seem affected by the normal threat system for ranged

[vernal trench]

That makes sende

From my understanding slots are melee only right?

Like how they try and circle around u and u can sit in a corner and push all 3 slots away with one push

[sullen jackal]

AFAIK yes. You will be prioritized over someone else engaged in melee and closer, because the person in melee could have like 8 slots occupied at once.

[uncut pebble]

That's wild.

[tame void]

Many dmg aura vet lately, everything okay lads?

What's wrong with yall

[uncut pebble]

This actually makes a lot of sense for targeting now.

[vernal trench]

I mean it makes total sense they pick out the guy sitting there shooting at stuff far away

[uncut pebble]

Doesn't mean I have to enjoy that, though.

[vernal trench]

I aint seen none yet

[sullen jackal]

Yes. Slots are how melee prevent too much damage. This is why melee + ranged can be particularly lethal, as they use seperate systems to avoid you being overwhelmed.

[uncut pebble]

I would rather 12 dreg ragers did not attempt to rip off my face and mine alone.

[tame void]

Lucky you

[vernal trench]

That makes a lot of sense thanks for the explaination

[vernal trench]

well its how the game is sometimes

[uncut pebble]

You didn't know about the slot system?

[sullen jackal]

I've miniranted here before about the 'roles'. Melee specialists should deal with elites, and by 'dealing' with them means ensuring that priority is locked to them.

[vernal trench]

I do

[uncut pebble]

Well unfortunately bulwarks do not care because you have to have specific weapons to lock them down.

Zealout needs to either oneshot them outright from behind or have hammer or crusher to stagger them.

[vernal trench]

Bulwarks are annoying as hell but it makes the game fun and challenging

if i took away everything thats annoying that i didnt like itd make the game trivial and stupid imo

[uncut pebble]

Never said anything about removing bulwarks.

[sullen jackal]

    disabled = -2,
    distance_to_target = 3,
    max_distance = 40,
    near_distance = 6,
    near_distance_bonus = 5,
    occupied_slots = -2,
    stickiness_bonus = 12,
    stickiness_duration = 8,
    threat_multiplier = 0.75,
}``` Technically bulwark does, (indirectly). They will never target you past 40 meters I believe, and are particularly biased towards targets in 6 meters.

[uncut pebble]

They just need better targeting and don't need to spawn in batches of four.

[vernal trench]

But they do

And it provides good scenarios where u need to back up because theyre pushing u around

[sullen jackal]

But also there is the threat multiplier(i'm not 100% sure if the default is 1 admittedly). Threat is killing enemies with ranged attacks, os suppressing enemies with ranged attacks. Suppressing enemies have twice the threat of killing enemies.

[uncut pebble]

Interesting. How does the game handle retargeting? If bulwarks would more often retarget then the issue with them targeting the guys in the rear of your team could be solved.

[vernal trench]

so theyd all be going for the shout vet or the trauma staff psyker?

Or they would want to

[sullen jackal]

AFAIK there is no limit to how quick enemies can retarget. However, as seen there, 'stickiness bonus' exists where in practice they're more inclined to swap every few seconds unless something becomes a much better threat.

[sullen jackal]

Yes. Or the ogryn with very very loud weapons that trivially suppresses enemies without even trying to.

[vernal trench]

I see

Thats good to know

[sullen jackal]

The system in general is, yes, designed to threaten ranged players excessively so by having multiple ways to prioritize them before melee players.

[vernal trench]

This game has pretty intricate targetting systems

[vernal trench]

Lmao the poor dude in a corner who never pulls out his melee

[sullen jackal]

minion_target_selection_weights.cultist_gunner = { attack_not_allowed = -2, combat_vector_main_aggro_weight = 1, disabled = -8, distance_to_target = 22, line_of_sight_weight = 8, max_distance = 50, near_distance = 10, near_distance_bonus = 30, occupied_slots = -1, } technically gunners do prioritize people in melee moreso than normal tho

[quartz nymph]

Those jerks

[vernal trench]

They gotta shoot the guys that dont shoot back

[sullen jackal]

attack_not_allowed seems to be a general component of threat for ranged units. I believe this is a equivalent ranged version of 'slots'. Basically, depending on the difficulty, there are various cooldowns for people shooting at you so you have time to react to danger.

[vernal trench]

But sometimes the entire room target sme when im the last one left

[sullen jackal]

They also have zero stickness bonus afaik, but I believe that's deceptive somewhat as once they lock their firing cone onto a player they have to stop firing and wait for the cooldown to elapse before firing again.

[vernal trench]

So doesnt that mean theres infinite slots?

[vernal trench]

That makes sense cuz they just keep shooting at me whenever im the last person alive

They dont stop shooting

Until i exit the room

[sullen jackal]

No. It's very difficult to notice if you're not looking for it, but ranged enemies will actually stagger their shots and spread out damage to keep sustained fire on you.

[vernal trench]

Damn

Those fuckers lmao

[sullen jackal]

...I also believe but not 100% sure that gunner rate of fire is lower the more that are shooting you at once.

[vernal trench]

hm interesting

They do tend to be more inaccurate sometimes

[sullen jackal]

oh yeah, they don't afaik calculate whether or not they'll hit, but there is a cone of fire affected by various things I think

[vernal trench]

Theyre insanely accurate if like a single gunner spawns and im there afking

[vernal trench]

I didntnknow they can change their fire spread before wow

[normal bay]

So what does everyone use as the dump stat on the bolter? I've heard mobility as per usual but I've seen some people mention collateral to stop targets flinching so much

[sullen jackal]

something i found out as ogryn. You know when you struggle with ranged enemies? SHOOT BACK AT THEM.

it doesn't matter if you hit

when you shoot, a suppression cone is emitted adding to the suppression of everyone in that cone

[vernal trench]

Does this change depending on the weapon

Like some weapons ahve bugger suppression cones

[sullen jackal]

probably i don't remember rn

[vernal trench]

My and my bolter

[sullen jackal]

but like... if you can't do the dodge and slide away to take 0 damage, just firing in their direction can make them dodge, the 'flinch' as people mentioned earlier

the flinch afaik is the first stage of suppression, if you keep firing they'll eventually start to run away and find cover further back and cower

[vernal trench]

Hm interesting

It might be some play to slide snd pull out my bolter for a quick shot

gotta practice it tho that stuff is hard to do when im sliding for my life

[sullen jackal]

this works in the psykarium too! I think the AI is still technically enabled for enemies there. It's just that the player is permanently invisible or something.

[vernal trench]

They shoot u still sometimes cuz emperors fading light

[vernal trench]

My mob spawner mod wont work

[vernal trench]

Do u know if many more try mod works for havocs?

[sullen jackal]

no

[vernal trench]

Damn

[loud belfry]

creature spawner's method of making the enemies attack you is by turning off "invisibility" so i guess so

[vernal trench]

Do u know any fix to my mod just not showing up in game

Some of my mods do that and idk why

[loud belfry]

maybe the mod order needs to be adjusted

try putting the ones that dont show up at the top of the list i guess

[vernal trench]

Wait u can do that?

I thought u just order it based on a-z

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

what

[vernal trench]

Idk i swear thats what thr guy in thr tutorila said

[calm shard]

if they did they're an idiot

[vernal trench]

Damn im stupid

[calm shard]

always load framework first, then dependencies, then everything else

[vernal trench]

Imma order them to the top to see id it loads

[loud belfry]

nah some mods need a higher priority mod order location first, usually they say so though

[vernal trench]

Damn thanks for the help

I had no idea thats how the mod order worked

Lmfso im stupid

[calm shard]

though actually I don't think you need to have framework in the load order

but yeah if a mod needs another mod to function

that mod needs to be loaded first

[vernal trench]

U need base dont u?

[calm shard]

or the other one won't work

[vernal trench]

that must be why some of my mods dont work

Wait so what needs to be top

Dmf?

[calm shard]

neither DMF nor base need to be there

[wanton dawn]

Pretty sure dmf doesnt need to be put in the loader.txt

[loud belfry]

this is what mine looks like. good luck, wall of text time

-- File managed by Vortex mod manager
DarktideLocalServer
animation_events
ChatFix
Reconnect
LogMeIn
quick_level_mastery
REALPRICES
ScanHelper
scoreboard
ScoreboardExplosive
show_cjk_glyphs
show_crit_chance
SimpleSpeedMeter
sorted_mission_grid
no_dodge_jump
InstantAbility
KillfeedImprovements
MoreGraphicsOptions
ovenproof_scoreboard_plugin
Tree_Helper
Decode_Helper
Disconnect
afk
BornReady
ShowInsignias
BioPage
Clock
DisableScreenEffects
red_weapons_at_home
ProfilePictures
ChatBlock
train_timer
MarkPreview
Stimmfo
which_book
CollectibleFinder
FXlimiter
modular_menu_buttons
CorrectMissionVotingInfo
debuff_indicator
ForTheEmperor
FoundYa
quick_chat
SpawnFeed
PenancesForTheMission
LoadoutMonitor
InspectFromSocial
Power_DI
Spidey Sense
PerilGauge
PauseVision
weapon_fov
ManyMoreTry
DecodeMinigameSolver
creature_spawner
InspectFromPartyFinder
true_level
who_are_you
danger_zone
recoil_fix
kill_tracker
Enhanced_descriptions
markers_aio
more_characters_and_loadouts
MemLeakFix
SoloPlay
BetterFireGrenade
CustomFlames
CustomLoadingBackground
WhatTheLocalization
character_cosmetics_view_improved
master_item_community_patch
DisplayPing
guarantee_weapon_swap
Healthbars
NumericUI
crosshair_remap
ToggleHUD

[wanton dawn]

This guy sweat at each new patch

[loud belfry]

only like 12 broke when the grim protocols update came out, not too bad. and they were identified pretty quickly by the mod discord

[vernal trench]

Holy fuck fhats a lot of mods

How does ur game not run out of memoru constantly

[loud belfry]

MemLeakFix

also

--lua-heap-mb-size 2048

as a launch option for darktide on steam

[vernal trench]

Damn

Ill look into it

[wicked cedar]

holy shit

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/bvndit-dead-chat-dead-group-chat-lol-gif-26075659

[vernal trench]

one hell of a lineup

[uncut pebble]

Something about the steel legion fit with the full flak helm and mask getup is just right.

[stoic thorn]

CLOSE! KILL! AND DO IT AGAIN!

[tropic halo]

two knifes and stealth

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

[stoic thorn]

Cutthroat voc goes insanely harx

[uncut pebble]

Their only melee horde clear is relic blade.

Huge yeesh.

[vernal trench]

its how the bundle was thats why

[uncut pebble]

The full helm was not with the bundle.

[vernal trench]

and they all died lmfao

dont know how u can die with shroudfield but it is what it is lmao

[uncut pebble]

The steel legion helmet has no goggle part of the mask.

[vernal trench]

it was

[uncut pebble]

It literally was not, and has never been.

[vernal trench]

this was the helmet that came from the bundle

[dense lance]

Thinking of a vet sniper build but idk how viable that shi is

[uncut pebble]

Steel legion helmets do not have the goggle piece for their gas masks.

[dense lance]

The psykers brain burst in question:

[vernal trench]

u were sayin

[uncut pebble]

Then they released a steel legion set before the one I've seen.

🤷

[vernal trench]

this is the only one that i know of

[tropic halo]

[uncut pebble]

It's perfectly viable, you just need to know when to put your gun down and melee.

And you shouldnt over invest in your gun.

[vernal trench]

only gun no melee

[dire olive]

Helbore can be both

[dense lance]

This kinda tells me that gun builds isnt really in fs’s book

even though they’re overpowered as hell

🥲

[uncut pebble]

Guns dont really require a whole lot of investment to be good, plasma aside.

[dense lance]

Well if you say it like that…

[uncut pebble]

It's not that fatshark didnt account for gun builds, its that guns themselves are in a good spot to begin with.

[dense lance]

now im starting to consider vet sniper

even though im sure theres builds better than a sniper build

[uncut pebble]

Ilas exe stance is good.

So is boltgun.

[dense lance]

Spearhead boltgun is amazing

[tropic halo]

Boltgun exe stance is a fun sniper build

[dire olive]

Slug shotgun for maximum one shot one kill feel

[unreal nova]

Sadly, it doesn't do the 1 shot 1 kill thing unless you basically minmax into it.

[dire olive]

Was running it with MF and one shotting bulwarks with no exe stance

[calm shard]

vet gun build is good, and psyker gun build is good though

zealot and ogryn have the bad gun builds

[vernal trench]

i love my vetgryn

[light ridge]

Ogryn gun build = Kickback

Talents are optional

[dense lance]

Really?

Cant lie ogrynheimer build is amazing

I think its initial big problem is the ammo

So havoc is out of it completely

[calm shard]

well the other big problem is that the entire right half of ogryns skill tree is worthless outside of maybe 3 things

[dense lance]

Untrue..

Maybe..

True… 💔

[calm shard]

like frag bomb that's pretty good

point blank barrage is pretty good

and then the extra ammo

and everything else is either super niche, or actually useless

oh mobile emplacement too

free 20% is good

like really what is this

[dense lance]

Good for rumbler actually

[calm shard]

How is eight percent crit chance on a class that has negative crit by default on half their weapons good

eight percent after getting kills mind you

[dense lance]

Rumbler kills hordes with one shot

[calm shard]

how do the crits help with that

if it already does it

[dense lance]

against bigger enemies!

even though rumbler builds already.. kinda one shot everything..

Which makes the talent… useless…

💔

[calm shard]

what bigger enemies when it one shots reapers without a crit, and doesn't one shot bulwarks with a crit

because it's an ogryn weapon and has garbage finesse

[dense lance]

rumbler still the goat

Honestly rumbler is fun though..

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-feeder-camera-orange-cat-staring-staring-at-camera-unimpressed-gif-11288596560613817949

[dense lance]

very fun..

[dense lance]

Try it yourself!

just dont pick the useless talents

[calm shard]

I have tried it myself

[dense lance]

aka everything

[wanton dawn]

Ahhh, back to my comfy silent afternoon

https://tenor.com/view/onceuponatime-cowboy-rockingchair-gif-5446368

[tough tiger]

Hsnxusjxnjsjaaa

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/398933789734076426/1184134378239045642/attachment-19.gif

[grand perch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1332810007749595187/scabmaulersaturdaythesecond.mp4?ex=679f2d4c&is=679ddbcc&hm=0d9b6093752b57a677e2d8c336bb2091840ac974331afeeb4fbfc245623943bd&

[wanton dawn]

Someone made this

[tame void]

thoughts on serrated blade?

[tame lodge]

Mercy Killer enabler

[tame void]

wheres mercy killer?

[tame lodge]

It's a blessing on the combat knife

[tame void]

oh

[unreal nova]

It makes stabbing better. But the points needed forces you to drop keystones and such if you are running other themed builds.

[austere pine]

folks

[vernal trench]

Wat

[tame lodge]

Needs more skulls

[unreal nova]

Guy just wants to show off he played everything on auric damnation.

[pseudo fiber]

God I hate the helbore mk4's bayonet

feels like hitting someone with cardboard

[formal ice]

Try helbore mk8 bayonet elite

[vernal trench]

Oh yea it ahows u that

I forgot

[pseudo fiber]

I like the damage the 4 for onetapping crushers

but I should try the others

[tame lodge]

Well it does meet breakpoints for Groaners (Body, Weakspot) and Walkers (Weakspot)

[unreal nova]

Basically. It's still feels like a small thing move though. Like, you could be carried through auric damnation for everything so it meant nothing but an ego stroke.

[pseudo fiber]

I know teh animnation just sucks too just ugh not well done
the other bayonets are great

TH zealot woke up a daemonhost to kill it. Gave me enough corruption so I got grabbed by a dog and instantly died lmfao this game is so silly

[tame void]

what

[void dragon]

how is the chainswords supposed to be build? the pin on Vet ranged weapons says Thrust but the weapon doesnt have that blessing so im assuming its outdated?

[tame lodge]

Thrust? That's on chain Axe

Anyways

Mk4 Shred+Rampage/Savage Sweep

Mk13g Shred Wrath

[void dragon]

im dumb, but that was know, thanks

[tame lodge]

Perks are flak maniac on both

[light ridge]

Savage Sweep and Bloodletter isn't bad either

[tame lodge]

[void dragon]

you lost me at savage sweep, the weapon doesnt have good cleave attacks to hit that many enemies reliably

[light ridge]

I don't get why people dis Bloodletter, it let's the XIIIg one shot reapers on a shredded heavy

[light ridge]

Spam lights in hordes
I like it until someone can tell me why Savage Sweep doesn't help with that

[warm bolt]

What's the ideal helbore build btw?

[hearty panther]

I agree, Savage Sweep is a worse Wrath imo.

[tame lodge]

Because Xiiig has a mean bite already

[light ridge]

It's on the moment you tag 3 enemies when you need it most

[hearty panther]

But if you can't tag three enemies now you have zero extra cleave precisely when you'd actually want it most.

(Specifically due to mass)

Wrath will always stack up.

[light ridge]

Maybe

[tame lodge]

The Xiiig l1 has 1.5 cleave
L2 to l4 have 4.5
H1 H2 no cleave
H3 8 cleave

2 bruisers and you can't cleave them anymore with those 4.5

[hearty panther]

It's an extreme example but if you take a Savage Sweep weapon into Moebian 21st, you basically have no blessing at all. It's when you CAN'T cleave three people to proc Savage Sweep that you want Savage Sweep to proc, not before.

More relevant if you also run Rampage but that isn't really in the discussion right now, admittedly.

[terse idol]

This is why you're building for savage sweeps to enable it to get better cleave iirc

Oh exploits got ya

[terse idol]

I'd also argue reaper one shot isn't that valuable

[light ridge]

I haven't played a lot of Havoc due to lack of interest on my side but that's a very valid point

[terse idol]

They're basically dead to rights already if you get into melee

[hearty panther]

Bruisers is a much more common example. You want to hit more of them for control and damage, but you can't cleave three to proc Savage Sweep. Now it's doodoo. Wrath would get you there.

Chainsword also has pretty shitty sweeps that are angled so its rare that you're actually hitting max target cap in anything that isn't an ultra dense trash horde.

[light ridge]

Lately they've been shooting like gun ogryns, I.e. never letting go of the trigger
I like to kill them faster now

[light ridge]

I'm convinced

But Bloodletter gave me better results in testing when dealing with ogryns and carapace

[hearty panther]

fuck, roommate stole the bathroom and im already cutting it close for work >.> i gotta shower damn it

[terse idol]

I meaann

You're a vet

You have VOC

[terse idol]

Well like at the cost of horde clear

The chainsword dooo be having problems

[light ridge]

Clear hordes fine with nades, recon and 1 cleave blessing

[terse idol]

You shouldn't be using every grenade to like clear hordes like ahh i got like some thoughts about it

I just don't know how bad the chainsword really is

[hearty panther]

Idk Bloodletter is good imo. I don't like Chord in general but it's elite waves that tend to fuck it up and Bloodlettet at least dumps respectable bleed stacks even on a short, canceled rev.

[light ridge]

Yup, boosts both light and heavy revs and you can quick cancel to add bleeds

[terse idol]

The amount of bleed that you get from canceled revs i imagine is pretty bad

[light ridge]

I still like it, it's no ds4, dagger, ps or caxe but it still works pretty decently

[hollow ibex]

i hate how with chain weapons you have to pick between having an ok chain weapon, or an ok normal weapon

you just can't have both

[terse idol]

Hence the discussion of, any time you get into a tussle with crusber hordes its gonna struggle

[tame lodge]

It's 16 stacks

[hollow ibex]

if it's anything like chaxe, the max bleed stacks are applied immediately

and you can just dodge after grazing them lol

[light ridge]

12

[terse idol]

is that good?

[tame lodge]

But at the same time the Xiiig bites hard

[terse idol]

Oh

Neat

That sucks though imo vs crusher hordes

I do admit I'll be okay being wrong though

[light ridge]

A few revs as you find space to back off and switch to recon
I feel chainsword like recon builds

[tame lodge]

Oh 16 is on the axe
It's 14 on the Chainsword

[hollow ibex]

on chainaxe you can meme with thunderous and bloodletter

[tame lodge]

6 on the eviscerator

[terse idol]

I mean my question being are you running keystoneless recon for?

[hollow ibex]

there's a god, and he hates evis

[light ridge]

Yup

[terse idol]

[cloud thunder]

I’ve been enjoying the knife with recon lately

[light ridge]

Shit ton of Shred and Brittle and 12 stacks of bleed and 16 stacks of fire

Sometimes I switch to shovel but revved chainsword is less worried about the perfect head hit

[cloud thunder]

Knife for fun for me. Psword for havocs. Those are my go to’s lately

[light ridge]

Knife is nice but for some reason I don't like it on vet
Been using it on my psyker and zealot though

[cloud thunder]

Mainly use it as mobility tool for recon

[austere pine]

evis activation only bites into higher hit mass and should improve cleave into anything that isn't high hit mass

meaning you get more cleave through activation

what's funny to me is that all chain weapons, when activated and attacking ogryn elites, want to hit carapace and not flesh

chain sword, hit the bulwark smack in the head. he walks it off.

chain sword, hit the bulwark in a singular teeny carapace plate. instant kill.

[void dragon]

what are you supposed to dump on knife? movility?

[soft trellis]

mobility

[austere pine]

mobility

[soft trellis]

🦵

[austere pine]

dump stats are always mobility, defences, collateral, crowd control or stability

with there always being exceptions here and there

[soft trellis]

Flamer:

lol

[austere pine]

flamer:

[formal ice]

Grenadier Gauntlet:

[austere pine]

that's ogryn and they have melee damage as a stat that exists

so like

[void dragon]

which ones are collateral and crowd conrol?

[austere pine]

collateral is stuff like

[hollow ibex]

bistol recon las

[austere pine]

hit a guy and the shot goes through first

[hollow ibex]

there are prob others

check pins

[austere pine]

and crowd control on thammer and crusher

stagger, push cost, attack speed?

[soft trellis]

cc on the thammer is attack speed

[austere pine]

yeah i haven't used those weapons in ages, i just know thammer doesn't dump it but rather defences, but that it is generally a lower value stat than most others

[void dragon]

defenses seems to be the lowest rank of priority

[soft trellis]

autopistol(don't use the autopistol, tho

[formal ice]

Mobility

[austere pine]

i love autopistol

[austere pine]

hell naw

[void dragon]

why are you speaking of the dumpster basket?

[austere pine]

if i'm choosing between defenses and mobility, it's always defenses dump

[soft trellis]

because some stupid people use it

[formal ice]

You want to run for some seconds more?

[austere pine]

do not call me stupid for being stubborn

[austere pine]

sbeed

[soft trellis]

I use it, and I know myself lol

[austere pine]

i loves speed

[formal ice]

That much?

You must be faking

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/that-little-puff-meow-chef-puff-ragdoll-cat-gif-1950176662564232704

[austere pine]

said the skaven

[formal ice]

I am not fake

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/oooo-wow-shocked-surprised-gif-14183082096479573119

[formal ice]

[austere pine]

i'm saying the skaven's disagreeing on sbeed being valuable

which is fake

[formal ice]

Which is true

[formal ice]

[austere pine]

i think animated stances ruined the entire system

i want my ogryn to be mad and to point his finger and look menacingly at the person the finger's being pointed at

[formal ice]

Nah I like ogryn animations

[austere pine]

and not point finger and look around

defeats the whole purpose

[austere pine]

3/10 rage bait

[formal ice]

They are funni I mean

[soft trellis]

idk man, the stats seem to disagree with you from mordheim

[formal ice]

Nit that they are good

[soft trellis]

oops forgot one lol

but yeah morheim seems to say skaven are fast

[formal ice]

I didn't said we wheren't fast

I said that speed isn't valuable

[soft trellis]

Tell that to the rat ogre

[formal ice]

Okay

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/skaven-warhammer-rat-ogre-total-war-packmaster-gif-25555285

[formal ice]

Bad move, they won't understand what I am saying about them

[soft trellis]

Yeah, they choose pound

[formal ice]

THEN there would be no reason for him to attack me

Because I am on his team

[soft trellis]

Rat ogre attacks anything in its way

[formal ice]

Nah

[soft trellis]

I've played vt2, I've seen rats get yeeted by it lol

It's hilarious

[formal ice]

Hey, its not his fault that the enemies are surrounded by skaven slaves

[soft trellis]

[willow canyon]

What’s the bestshot gun?

[wind grotto]

double barrel

[hollow ibex]

DB is the least worst shotgun

[unreal nova]

Bolt pistol. It staggers things around with lethal prox, right? But seriously, only the Double barrel is worth bothering. Slug shotgun, just use bolt pistol.

[errant carbon]

mfw someone tells me the shotgun slugs are almost as good as the revolver

[unreal nova]

They must be smoking something then.

Revolver just hits harder, cleaves more and do more vs carapace. Only thing you lose is well, half the ammo pool.

Oh, and you can shoot 5 times before reloading.

Instead on after every, single shot.

And WS reload works on it unlike slug.

[errant carbon]

Combat Shotgun buff when

[dry cloak]

i enjoy agrip combat shotty

[hollow ibex]

the power creep in this game is real

[dry cloak]

i know they are not the ebst

but that does not stop me from enjoying thme

[unreal nova]

This is auric only btw... Though uhhh, bringing combat shottie into havoc 35+ is as bad as if not worse than bringing revolver anyway.

[dry cloak]

on aurics they are fine

not the best

still better than autopistol

[unreal nova]

That thing just needs a buff. Like, in all ways.

[dry cloak]

yes

i really want it to be good

used it for a while and stopped

even had fun using it

[unreal nova]

You could literally have a dartboard on how to buff it and just unload a dart minigun on it and it's correct.

[dense lance]

whats the best vet sniper?

[formal ice]

Not being a vet sniper

Anyways the best vet sniper is the one that uses helbore

[hollow ibex]

bolter 👍

[dense lance]

hilarious!

[formal ice]

Very sniper

[warm bolt]

I mean unironically

One-tap bolter

Bistol might be better overall for it though

[unreal nova]

Or revolver.

[warm bolt]

Yeah true, or that

Bistol allows for grenade shenanigans though which is a neat trick to have

[hollow ibex]

bolter is just easy mode

big mag, massive damage, super forgiving bullet hitbox

full auto

[unreal nova]

But just go funny person with 40000 'nades then.

[hollow ibex]

superb ADMs

[terse idol]

Ilas 7

With ghost

Is prettyy decent

[formal ice]

I like that everyone is suggesting different weapons

[terse idol]

With the caviate that you need to remeber to stay with your team

[formal ice]

[terse idol]

But you get the opportunity to shoot every single gunner on the map for free

[arctic rampart]

plasma has good range, though I wouldn't call it a sniper

hipshot 4 life don't even need ads 😉

[formal ice]

Say the same for the guy suggesting bolter

[hollow ibex]

nah bolter's a fantastic sniper

[formal ice]

Give it a more sniper shape

[arctic rampart]

I guess the slow fatty lasgun could be called a sniper. It's pretty weak compared to plasma bolter though

[terse idol]

Well 15 shots

[dry cloak]

plasma and bolter have such power because yes

[terse idol]

With little ability to want to shoot at regular gunners

Imo a sniper or in darktides case

A designated markesmen

Needs to be able to hit all variety of priority targets

[arctic rampart]

oh, if you want to deal with gunners? the fast laspistol is fun! or recon lasgun

[terse idol]

Bolter let's you handle crushers

[dry cloak]

bolter lets you handle everything

[terse idol]

But leaves you in an awkward situation to shoot small gunners

[formal ice]

Do yall think marksman need a change?

[terse idol]

Not really

[formal ice]

[terse idol]

15 shots

[dry cloak]

make them count

15 head shots

[hollow ibex]

technically the role of snipers is to kill high-priority targets

which the bolter does exceptionally well

[arctic rampart]

I barely see any vets running marksman, least of all me. It probably could use a buff

[formal ice]

Maybe maybe a rework?

[terse idol]

Well

[dry cloak]

its just not good compared to shout wich is overtuned

[terse idol]

Besides regular shooters

Well okay okay let's roll it back

Snipers irl

Sit in a spot

For days at a time

[arctic rampart]

So "snipers" -- you aint got no camoflouge anymore. Are you gonna sit around like a statue ADS while there's mobs everywhere

[terse idol]

kinda...

Designated marksmen in a squad is like

[arctic rampart]

Dead

Damaged

Shit

U gotta at least skirmish and be quick

[terse idol]

One guy with a rifle that can shoot targets further with a accuracy than a regular rifleman right?

[formal ice]

Give marksman a skill to build a tower

Fixed

[terse idol]

Imo the bolter is more for

Well anti armour priority targets

[arctic rampart]

Plasma and boltgun have matching range, so why would you bring a shittier specialty weapon when you can bring S rank weapons

[dry cloak]

so in this games case would be vigilant autos and helbore for most part

[terse idol]

Ilas 7 is for everything else including reapers and all gunners

And snipers

[dry cloak]

fun

[terse idol]

With ilas too

[dry cloak]

personal challenge

[dry cloak]

i agree

[arctic rampart]

If you want fun then use a bolt pistol or recon lasgun

[covert hound]

is the recon laser build for vet actually inf ammo?

[terse idol]

The bolter just doesn't have the ammo capacity to shoot every single target

[covert hound]

I wanna do a build that I can just left click and hold on

[dry cloak]

i have fun using combat shotties

[terse idol]

Becuase it cannot and doesn't want to shoot at regular small gunners

[dry cloak]

so to each their own

[dry cloak]

go play gunlugger

[arctic rampart]

I've seen a guy doing recon lasgun and 0 melee on auric maelstroms. I dunno about infinite ammo but he only shot his lasgun and did ok

[dry cloak]

it can be

[formal ice]

If you are awalys around your teammates and theres a big quantity of elites and specialist

Then yes

[covert hound]

I do but I have to steal ammo packs

[dry cloak]

have 3 staff psykers

[covert hound]

I want something where I dont have to steal ammo packs from the team

[arctic rampart]

Yeah if you want a real infinite ammo staff psyker 4 sure

Just run survivalist, you aint stealing anything then

[dry cloak]

on vet there is a build that allows you to go ammo positive

[covert hound]

this is what I wanted

[dry cloak]

with helbore

[covert hound]

is it the recon laser build

[dry cloak]

then helbore build

but recon also works for this

[arctic rampart]

If you use hellbore make sure you run the weapon customization mod so you can put a fucking red dot on it

[terse idol]

Recon

Ilas

If you want to be

Super ammo positive

Helbore

okay maybe not recon

[wind grotto]

yeah any of the las weapons are super ammo efficient

[terse idol]

But recon with survivalist and shocktrooper

[wind grotto]

even the recon honestly

[terse idol]

Isn't that bad

[wind grotto]

as long as you aren't going onslaught and just emptying mags into crushers the recon should last a long time without pickups

[terse idol]

even if you do go onslaught it's still ammo neutral

[void dragon]

Ok, I heard that the power sword feels quite clunky since it doesn't work like the relic blade but boy you folks were not kidding, it's it supposed to feel this bad? Not even speaking of the activation loop or the blessing tax, the weapon doesn't feel rewarding enough when striking an enemy

[covert hound]

what does stamina do on veteran

[cloud thunder]

It’s actually very very strong

But depends on how you’re using it

It does take some adjusting

But it’s super strong once you do

[void dragon]

What's the best way to use it?

[cloud thunder]

Dodge backwards while charging or push block and charge attack

Use lights

I use achalys

You can push attack then light

It 2 shots anything

Like crushers

[void dragon]

So no heavy attacks? I take is not that great Vs hordes

[cloud thunder]

Heavy is good vs large enemies

Push attack stab crusher head and do a light after

It’s 2 tap kill

But 95% of the time

You’re using lights

It hits very hard

You can use power cycler with BM or sunder

[void dragon]

Brutal momentum? I feel the unempowered mode is TERRIBLE (took me 4 Light shots to head with my almost maxed weapon to kill a fodder enemy)

[cloud thunder]

Yeah don’t ever use unpowered

Powered mode just destroys hordes

But it can be annoying to use until you get used to charging it safely

I prefer achalys and spam lights mostly with it (powered)

[terse idol]

Well its for the cleave and the weakspot damage

Its bm or sunder options

[warm bolt]

Empowered mode is just

[terse idol]

With power cycler naturally

[warm bolt]

Like bro it's a sword please react to it somewhat

[terse idol]

Wdym?

[warm bolt]

No, chad poxwalker cares not

[terse idol]

You can one shot crushers with the push attack charged

[warm bolt]

Without special attack empower mode?

Oh i just read what i typed

Sorry im fucking stupid

[terse idol]

Naw the psword is like

Pretty terrible uncharged

[warm bolt]

Yeah it's uh

Suboptimal

For a big hunk of iron

[unreal nova]

I would still expect it to bonk but hits like a pool noodle then.

[warm bolt]

Exactly

[terse idol]

Honestly it's traumatized me abit, because I've been playing alot of psyker and zealot relic blade and power great sword

And like the power greatsword heavies on crushers aren't bad but I'm reminded how bad the power sword unpowered is

So I'm like

"Damn should I be doing this?"

"This shouldn't be doing this much damage should it?"

[unreal nova]

It's so bad I just went back to knoife lul.

Was like, heard ppl say this is good. No dodge, slow... having to charge up to do stuff while op, still delay.

[heavy rover]

sprints, blocks, useful for deadshot as well (if you use it)

you want to have a lot of stamina if you want to do the push attacks consistently

[unreal nova]

Or you knoife/DS.

[heavy rover]

plus powersword too

[void dragon]

not even that big, yet still incredibly undewelming if a shovel can perform FAR better

[covert hound]

Why does it take stamina to fire my gun lol

[unreal nova]

Think of it as holding your breath and taking aim in those sniper games.

[heavy rover]

Deadshot takes stamina when you aim down sights

if you don't use deadshot then it won't take stamina

[unreal nova]

Like Zombie Army series.

[warm bolt]

A shank can perform better than an uncharged powersword somehow

Also why does it even turn off, is it out of battery?

Cause that's what out of battery PS do in lore, sometimes they just turn off

[hollow ibex]

powersword from temu

[warm bolt]

Skimped on that moebian steel

Moebian 6th got it all first

[unreal nova]

From Wish. Since it's powered by wishes at this point.

[tropic halo]

Useless karking sword

[unreal nova]

You wish it stayed on, you wish it powered on faster. You wish the pocket generator from the button press generated more power to power said sword longer.

I suspect it's powered that way for some reason. IDK.

[void dragon]

tecnically it hits harder than a shovel when is not folded...for some reason
also yeah, Hadron needs to check her malfunction prayers on that batteries

[sly orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/gogeta-angry-stare-scary-serious-gif-9595046672430067305

[junior needle]

The charge mechanic is definitely clunky and annoying

A lot of people find it intolerable, including myself

Once they reduced the swings from 5 to 3 with cycler I was out

[unreal nova]

Wat?

[sly orchid]

Calling one of the best weapons in the game bad is certainly something

[void dragon]

which leads to ppl asking for the same mechanic from relic to be implemented, which makes sense so the weapon itself isnt TRASH when turned off

[junior needle]

Relic?

[void dragon]

the zealot's relic blade

[junior needle]

Ah, that's what it's called

[unreal nova]

It is, when not powered on.

[sly orchid]

Just gotta manage the heat guage ez pz

[unreal nova]

What heat gauge?

[sly orchid]

Is this relic blade or powersword?

[unreal nova]

Powersword.

[void dragon]

we are complaining that the PS is carbo when off, because even a swing from a folded shovel is FAR stronger

[sly orchid]

Mk7 powersword push attack light repeat activation 😌

[void dragon]

Relic blade was brought because the mechanic make more sense and when off its still a good weapon

[raw needle]

which one is mk7 did they fucking rename them again

[narrow frost]

Did you know you can turn on the power sword

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-temperature-boiling-burning-heat-gif-12230976

[sly orchid]

The one with the push attack stab

[unreal nova]

Powersword has one?

[tropic halo]

On god no way

[soft trellis]

No lol

I was just doing a gif

[raw needle]

idk just make a separate power sword and copy the mechanic from space marine
unpowered fast single target
powered wide horde clear

fatshark hire me

[unreal nova]

Yes, but it gets annoying.

[tropic halo]

The power sword doesnt have a heat gauge

[raw needle]

why the fuck would they rename it from mk6 to mk7

[tropic halo]

It is very short time, it deserves to be a slighly longer

[void dragon]

but maybe it should

[soft trellis]

to make people like you ask why

[tropic halo]

Honestly it doesnt

[unreal nova]

I know. See trying for sarcasm doesn't work for me or on me.

[sly orchid]

I dont know if it was called that

[soft trellis]

[insert sarcastic remark here]

[void dragon]

what's your opinion? are you happy that its unempowered mode is this bad?

[tropic halo]

I think the most annoying part for me when turning on the psword is the sudden slow movement

[junior needle]

I've been saying forever that the powered modes should be like bloodborne trick weapons

Get a different moveset while doing it

[sly orchid]

Rework powersword to have a heat guage and block properties during activation

[formal pebble]

poke poke

[raw needle]

yeah that would be really good but fatshark are not at that stage yet

maybe in a year

[tropic halo]

to those individuals

[raw needle]

like uh

[soft trellis]

I call this team "Spiked Wall"

[raw needle]

relic blade is already a revolution in weapon special

you're asking way too advanced shit rn

[unreal nova]

Maybe you have?

[tropic halo]

[junior needle]

A year in fatshark time maybe, 5 years at least for the rest of us

[soft trellis]

I've been married 10 and a half years, so maybe.

[tropic halo]

Good on you mate

Proud of you sah

[soft trellis]

She's the best thing that ever happened to me

[junior needle]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-si-sooo-sisisi-yennifer-gif-20534066

I say the same thing about my wife, Jennifer Lopez

[tall torrent]

It’s still called mk6

[soft trellis]

@junior needle Ever had this happen 10 times in a row?

[tropic halo]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

[soft trellis]

I have... many times...

[junior needle]

Off the top of my head I've had it happen at least 8 times in a row

[drowsy aspen]

Tonitrus doesn't

And that's the closest to Paul

😎

[soft trellis]

I think I've had it happen 13 or 14 times before in a row x.x

[junior needle]

Tonitrus is stinky for that reason

[drowsy aspen]

Oi, I was being facetious, but don't call the Tonitrus stinky!!!!

[soft trellis]

10 times is rookie numbers <.<'

[drowsy aspen]

I used that weapon to kill Rom for dozens of people

[junior needle]

I hate maintenance buffs

[drowsy aspen]

It's done so much good in this world

[junior needle]

Truly the bane of my existence

[junior needle]

It could've gone beyond that, that's just the highest where I was counting

[soft trellis]

Fair

[junior needle]

Me except I splat the c/f/r chalice amygdala with the cannon

[drowsy aspen]

Good shit man

[warm bolt]

What's the correct plasma build again?

I feel like i just tickle gunners sometimes

[junior needle]

Emulation for it is also advancing very rapidly, so I will probably do another playthrough when that's sufficiently worked out

[warm bolt]

My friends keep yelling at me cause they fail like 10 rolls, i immediately get it from the first try with the downside that i get nothing for the next 30

[tall torrent]

Unarmored
Flak

[tall torrent]

Blessings can go 2 ways, they play differently

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/field-trip-ror2-risk-of-rain2-mini-mushrum-gif-25942012

[warm bolt]

I remember one way being blaze away and gets hot?

Also what about the talent tree?

[tall torrent]

That’s old
Now there’re 2 ways to build blessings
Option 1 is general purpose, gets hot + rising heat
Option 2 is magdump, blaze away + optimized cooling

They can differ a bit in talent tree

Because rising heat gives easier access to several crucial 1tap breakpoints

So you can sorta cope with not-100% consistent breakpoints with it

[soft trellis]

like 1 shotting dreg bruisers? :3

[thorn lark]

mk6 has 25 block eff

it's hidden

[tall torrent]

Whereas blaze away route basically needs focus target for 1 taps

[tall torrent]

What

[soft trellis]

I was stating an enemy you shouldn't be targeting with the plasma gun to begin with since you said 1 tap breakpoints

why? idk, cuz I could ig

[tall torrent]

It’s not a breakpoint u would need to build for in the first place

[soft trellis]

Yeah. :3

I know

I was being a dipshit

[warm bolt]

I kinda like optimized cooling so i think i'll go with that route, thanks

[tall torrent]

What melee are u running

[warm bolt]

Either a duelling sword if i really need to lock in during a havoc mission, power sword and recently i tried the devil claw and it was fun so that too ig?

[tall torrent]

Oh I wouldn’t go with option 2 for havoc

You don’t get full benefit without magdumping

And havoc doesn’t spawn that much ammo

[warm bolt]

Oh right

[tall torrent]

Havoc gives u 6 ammo on ammo tin which is equal to 2 shots

Actually no blaze away does give u some 1 taps

Just did maths

[soft trellis]

Sweet, I removed my gif then too lol

[tall torrent]

It would make gunners 1 tap instead of 2

At max blaze away stacks which u get after using 15 ammo (5 shots)

I’ll let u decide if that’s worth

[warm bolt]

I may have barely passed my math class

But i dont think it's worth it sah

What's the build for gets hot and rising heat then?

[soft trellis]

"Hm... 25 + 30 does not equal 450 last I checked... " :3

[tall torrent]

U can get away without using focus target

Superiority complex helps u maintain Dreg gunner 1 tap without other buffs active

[warm bolt]

So WS and superiority complex?

[formal pebble]

I met the commisars girlfriend

[tropic halo]

[tall torrent]

the thing is
Idk why u have to run DS with plasma

I think DS is a better fit for higher point cost guns

plasma allows u to fit in higher point cost melee, like axe / knife

I guess smth like this?

@warm bolt

[visual badge]

no field improv?

cringe

[tall torrent]

Not worth

[visual badge]

nuh uh

I die by the field improv

💪

[tall torrent]

Can’t deny the dying part

[visual badge]

field improv medkit has saved me and my team ass a lot of times

hard to not pick up if I can spend a point

if I go voc at least

[tall torrent]

I guess if you’re in blight with no purity aura then it might be ok?

[unreal nova]

IT FINDS IT'S WAY INTO ALL MY BUILDS.

[visual badge]

tbf I only really play auric damnation

I can't bother grinding havoc

[unreal nova]

4 nukes for the oggy helps as well.

If it comes to that.

[tall torrent]

It’s ok value in enhanced blitz ig

[wise wren]

Holy shit running no keystones on auric is fun as shit

[pallid jetty]

bro doesnt know its meta to not run any keystones anywhere.....

[grand perch]

not really imo

[visual badge]

focus target is a decent pickup if you can

it's free dmg if you can spare it

[unreal nova]

IF you can ping, lul.

[void dragon]

People just refuse to use the ping, even in darkness to be able to see

[visual badge]

I just spam it and hope it pings something lol

I spam ping too much so for me it's not worth the pickup

[unreal nova]

You try it with controller while wanting better dodge.

[hollow ibex]

jfc the weekend teams. team getting fucking trounced, what do they do? pick up a fucking grim

[unreal nova]

Up on DPad.

[void dragon]

See, that is the issue, using a controller is their sin and penance

Who would be a good source to steal copy some builds? Is there anyone who is a veteran expert?

[terse idol]

No keystone recon

[terse idol]

Ahhh weellll nooo

Its really bad vs cara

[void dragon]

Not even that, shovel can light special tap most specials and heavy the muti, meanwhile unempowered Psword needs 3 headshots to kill a fodder

It's D R E A D F U L

[unreal nova]

Like, I get specials taking more... but 3 hits for fodder is like... just why?

[void dragon]

That's me being generous, mine isn't fully powered to 500 so I'm giving it one hit less... But might be that even maxed it needs 4 headshots

[unreal nova]

I can light with knoife 3x and do the exact same thing.

[hollow ibex]

old weapon design go brrrrt

[unreal nova]

And those 3x goes out faster.

This is just pure headshots.

[void dragon]

And knoife deals bleed while zooming all around

[unreal nova]

If you take it.

[void dragon]

Even if you don't, the speed alone is already a massive boon

[unreal nova]

Better dodge and such.

The only thing is knife might hit less targets.

[terse idol]

Heavy the multi?

The damage is dreadful

On heavues

And I mean ahh like

The sapper shovel horde clear/control is kinda butt

[austere mica]

(it shouldn't if you use it right)

[void dragon]

Hardly true, it staggers quite well and safely, and can sweep large numbers of enemies, even if not damage is done, the stagger is there, I run it with decimator and the blessing that do more damage when staggered enemy (which the shovel does with ease)

[terse idol]

I mean the again the sapper shovels can struggle with hordes

[void dragon]

You mean that it deals enough damage to kill without bleeding, right?

[austere mica]

And that bleed is highly outclassed by half of its blessings, yes

[void dragon]

We have really different experiences with the sapper shovel, I feel it has a really safe horde clearing

[hollow ibex]

oh yeah definitely

even sapper struggles lol

with buttom right melee perks and hotshot

you just smack things around... but they ain't dead

[void dragon]

Skull crusher and decimator makes me feel that it does kill rather quickly, what blessings you are using?

[hollow ibex]

decimator is ass

[terse idol]

I mean like

[hollow ibex]

skullcrusher and uncanny

[terse idol]

Ah man

[hollow ibex]

i've tried decimator

hate it

[terse idol]

There's alot to go through

At least from my experience from using the standard shovel and the sapper shovels

At leeeast

The sapper shovel can cleave more? I think or at the very least it you're not sweeping the floor with hordes

[faint beacon]

Peak has hit the Auric Board

[terse idol]

I mean s

Standard shovel

[hollow ibex]

the cleave is the the problem

[terse idol]

With the sapper shovel I've managed to get overwhelmed if I have to deal with a horde myself

[void dragon]

I use the Mk7

[terse idol]

Because it really only sweeps them to the side

[tropic halo]

Shovel time

[terse idol]

I use standard shovel with hotshot

On my helbore

[faint beacon]

You not mix in lights?

[terse idol]

So my shovels getting uncanny, skull crusher and hotshot

[faint beacon]

Cause lights are really fucking good at killing them

Heavy is more stagger and control focused but still good at killing

[void dragon]

Decimator stacks fast when heavy striking the horde

[faint beacon]

Deci stacks insanely quick with lights

[void dragon]

And it's stagger turns in damage with skull crusher

[terse idol]

But

You would just rather take uncanny

With skull crusher no?

It you're looking to convert damage

[void dragon]

It also alows you to slap light into Heavy special to kill ragers

[tall torrent]

Takes 10 attacks to max stack

[terse idol]

I just special attack to stagger and left click spam ragers to death if I remebee my ooown gameplay

[void dragon]

No if you are slapping a horde

[terse idol]

Well per attack

[void dragon]

Odd, it stacks not per swing for me

[tall torrent]

Decimator does not stack multiple times from hitting multiple enemies in a single attack

[terse idol]

I should say per-chained attack

[tall torrent]

That would be headtaker, which is not available to shovels

[void dragon]

It's on HIT not on SWING

[tall torrent]

I’m just telling u how it’s coded to work

[austere mica]

It still stacks once a swing

[void dragon]

You hit a horse of MANY enemies

[tall torrent]

It stacks per attack

[terse idol]

Per chained attack

[terse idol]

Well actually per chained 2 attacks

[tall torrent]

see bottom left buff bar

[hollow ibex]

miss 1 and get fucked

[terse idol]

Is 1 stack if it's worded like that

[tall torrent]

no

[terse idol]

Ohh

Is it after the 2nd?

The wording

I can't

[terse idol]

Crazy music too I must say

[tall torrent]

@void dragon

[void dragon]

Weird, I think I tested this wrong, I take your word on this then

[tall torrent]

There’re other blessings that can stack multiple times from a single attack

In the video u can see uncanny strike stack 5 times because I hit 5 weakspots

Decimator just isn’t one of them

Decimator, wrath and shred use same application code

Gain stack per attack
No multiple stacking in 1 attack
Drop all stacks on missed attack

[tall torrent]

There’s only so much I can do to not making editing steam guide boring

I’m 3 weapons away from finishing all ranged weapons

Then talent tree and blessing format overhaul

Old talent tree section looked quite bad

[visual badge]

classic obese megalodon

has a perfectly appropriate link at the bottom

just straight up jams the trinket into the wooden handle

peak ogryn mindset

[tall torrent]

format update to talent tree section

[void dragon]

Genius design

[visual badge]

I don't really understand appeal of catch a breath

[void dragon]

Where one will be able to see this guide once it's live? Pinned too?

[visual badge]

it seems it'd only work when you're not fighting enemies

in that case natural regen would kick in regardless

[tall torrent]

Yes
When it’s finished in like 5 months

[tall torrent]

Toughness gain independent from coherency, that’s active any time you’re not in melee basically

[terse idol]

Could give you abit more of a toughness boost if you can.... 'catch your breath' behind some cover

[visual badge]

then again get back in the fight never saved me either

honestly both of the talents are just kind of hit and miss

I suppose something that is always active is better than conditional

well they're both conditional

[tall torrent]

CaB actually does things which makes it generally better

[visual badge]

I think you get the idea

[tall torrent]

I think I listed why pretty clearly in that pic

Whenever it’s not working u have melee kills to restore toughness

Whenever it is working, it’s passive benefit that’s independent from coherency

[visual badge]

unless you're face first into a gunner's muzzle by accident

I imagine it is better if I think about it for a second

but just both feel like they're just there to unlock path to survivalist

[tall torrent]

Yes

It’s just that there’s still a pretty clear difference as to which is better

[soft trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/aisyamoda-gif-13987168755553127369

cab

[tall torrent]

could be shorter? could be longer?

I imagine by the time it's ready, FS drops their first major update of 2025

which requires modifications to guide anyway

[soft trellis]

it's annoying as fucking hell for them to make the steam version of it >.>

[hollow ibex]

i can't remember the last time get back in the fight activated for me lol

[tall torrent]

U can get a lot of value out of GBITF

If u take like 1200 damage per game

[hollow ibex]

ah

i've been playing wrong

[soft trellis]

Yeah, ur supposed to TAKE DAMAGE... not AVOID DAMAGE...

[hollow ibex]

time to make a martyrvet to take advantage of GBITF

[void dragon]

Meta of "my face is my shield"

[visual badge]

recommend any melee to use with double barrel?

anything fun

[hollow ibex]

rashad, tac axes, DS, knife, whatever

[void dragon]

Something with good mobility will help shotgun gameplay to get in and do your best Doomguy impression

[hollow ibex]

i've been doing taxe cuz it's fun

[tall torrent]

Axe / knife

[terse idol]

Oh yeah axe and knife line up with trench fighter

Mah brainn

[void dragon]

How different is the combat Vs tactical axe? Is the trade of damage for mobility good enough to say "pick your favourite"? Or there is a clear loser?

[grand perch]

is it just me or has excise vault been removed from the normal map pool

havent seen it in months it feels like

[tall torrent]

Tac axe is ~1/3 of combat axe’s DPS vs unyielding and carapace, with 2 point less talent cost (doesn’t need melee atk speed)

But has faster kill speed vs both ragers, better single target stagger, and better dodge distance

[hearty panther]

And a goated special

[tall torrent]

Horde clear is a little worse but still can 1HS both bruisers with heavy atk

[terse idol]

Yeah

Appearently its got some bad bugs

[hearty panther]

It's been gone yea

[terse idol]

Its just gotta get fixed which probably means it's gonna get redesigned abit

[rocky jacinth]

Do you like going fast and MASHING? Tac axe.
Do you like Brutal Momentum? Combat Axe.

[grand perch]

tac axe is strictly superior to caxe

[terse idol]

Do you like bad axe

Taxe

Do you like good axe

Caxe

[austere mica]

Tac axe can also run bromentum

*effectively

[wicked cedar]

mood

[visual badge]

what combat blade mk is the superior one on vet?

3 right? I think

[terse idol]

Its the one with the combos

Uhh

The mk6?

[crimson pebble]

i like 6

[tall torrent]

VI, across all classes

[visual badge]

guess I'm remembering wrong

[agile forge]

Even the Zealot? Thought 3 is the stabbiest

[tall torrent]

mk3 has a little higher finesse scaling that doesn't result in any better breakpoints

[visual badge]

would you recommend any general blessings for the knife

currently running uncanny strike and precognition

but idk if thats the best for just overall usage

[narrow frost]

[visual badge]

yes yes I know hammer of the emperor

except theres 5 talents

[narrow frost]

he explaines them

[orchid hemlock]

it honestly depends how well you proc precog

on average how many times do you activate it and land a headshot?

[visual badge]

I noticed I usually kill enemies quick enough to not proc precog

so I suppose I'll try smth else

[orchid hemlock]

the "saftest" option is: uncanny/agile

the most consistent for damage is: uncanny/riposte simply because riposte lasts 6 seconds while precog lasts 2 seconds

however if you are good at procing precog and taking advantage of the 2 second window, it can be better

[summer lance]

dump stat for combat knife? i know its supposed to be a high mobility weapon, but dumping something like first target, finesse, pen, or damage doesn't really sound so good, but i want to be sure

[orchid hemlock]

Mobility

If you really want to cope and not touch mobility, then the next "worst" stat is damage

Someone quick pull out the Tanner meme

[pure kindle]

TBH some weapons are just in the state of "you have killed the enemy in 20 bullets instead of 25" or "you could have killed the enemy in 3.1 stabs instead of 3.76 stabs, which is the same amount of stabs but now you can't kill this one type of enemy with a crit weakpoint hit in 1."

[wanton dawn]

Yeah but most ppl are bad at math so... just full dmg

[void dragon]

Big number in damage = good

• the art of how to ogryn

[wanton dawn]

This isnt pokemon, we dont iv train here

[pure kindle]

I more often tend to have two copies of some weapons based on whether it's my "I need this for five seconds to deal with the 1 Crusher/Rager or pack of chaff that got past the nades or bullets" option in the slot (Damage), or the "I'm going to be dancing in the thick of it next to the Zealots" weapon (Mobility).

[loud belfry]

3 teammates got within ~1% damage of each other

[pure kindle]

Collateral, Cleave Targets, and Defense are the only real dump stats in the game.

• Staggering or Suppressing enemies just makes it harder to land those weakpoint or center of mass shots, and a dead enemy is more valuable than an inconvenienced one (plus you have Blitzes and Abilities and Melee for that)
• If you're taking a weapon you want to hit the most amount of targets with: just take Wrath or whatever else gets you to bonkers levels of Cleave as opposed to 1-2 more targets
• Defense is for when you either don't dodge or can't Kill/Stagger an unrelenting enemy. Bad practice.

[austere mica]

Local individual ignores Mobility and Warp Resistance

[tall torrent]

uncanny + riposte/flesh tearer for mk6

for mk3 the light atks' weakspot hit rate is so bad that lacerate starts being ok

[austere mica]

(but not good, never good unless you are an actual insane person who has the skill to balance uncanny uptime and lacerate)

[orchid hemlock]

Me trying to wave clear with the mk3:

[tall torrent]

I think it's more "u try to hit weakspot to keep uncanny and whatever gets hit in body due to attack angle gets to use lacerate"

[visual badge]

what about uncanny + mercy killer with serrated blade

trying it out with infiltrate, a lot of fun

[tall torrent]

works

just serrated blade usually being more taxing on talents

[tame lodge]

Wrath

[orchid hemlock]

yeah collat is not the dumpstat on BAG or Bolt gun

[tall torrent]

nah it's dump for braced autogun

[orchid hemlock]

but I want to perma stun 😔

[tall torrent]

it's only not dump for boltgun (only for veteran) and autopistol

[tall torrent]

it doesn't make a huge difference in terms of stagger for braced autoguns

[hearty panther]

i will never fucking dump defences and you cant stop me because my block is unbreakable

[radiant chasm]

Nah im dumping mobility before cleave targets every time unless i’m making a specific variant craft like ds5

[radiant chasm]

Yes it is