veteran-class

[hollow ibex]

if you're just clearing out shooters, SG is overkill

and you'd rather have the perpetual uptime + highlights from exec

[tawny badger]

yeah about that

[jaunty tinsel]

i guess my question is if its better to keep going exec or go VoC

[hollow ibex]

play VOC, build for max smokes, and forcefully deploy smokes so your teammates can stay alive

https://tenor.com/view/robot-congratulations-you-are-rescued-please-gif-17932648

[jaunty tinsel]

thx

[uncut pebble]

Teammates will manage to get lost in the smoke, mark my words.

[hollow ibex]

prob

"what is this annoying gray shit, i need to get out of here!!"

[uncut pebble]

Shredders are better. If you see a group of shooters, lob a shredder. If you see a train of armor, lob a shredder. If a bulwark is attempting to touch you, lob a shredder. Shredders solve all your problems.

[hollow ibex]

shredders are very good too

[quartz nymph]

The rating for curios doesn't matter anymore right? Except +3 stam?

[vagrant jackal]

correct

[tall torrent]

I think this is a little unfair because that’s keystone + ability vs just ability
A more fair comparison would be Marksman focus + exe stance, which is higher scaling than DD + SG

[uncut pebble]

Yeah but see, then you're running mf, which kinda sucks.

[tall torrent]

Yea ik

DD is +15% damage, +30% weakspot damage and +37.5% crit damage
SG is up to +40% damage

MF is +75% finesse
Exe stance is +25% damage and +25% weakspot damage

This is also discounting other damage bonuses that veteran would normally really have to try to not get in their builds

Like precision strikes

[hearty panther]

Teeechnically SG ramps to 40%

[tall torrent]

Oh ya forgot

[hearty panther]

and yea one more node gets you 30% finesse

[barren nimbus]

Me trying to figure out these abbreviations

[hearty panther]

which as you say vet just ... has at baseline lol

desperado + precision strikes comes pretty close

[tall torrent]

Exe stance default usually has precision strikes + superiority complex + marksman

Or at least 2 of them

U have to discount the other veteran talents to make Psyker’s damage scale look significantly better

[errant carbon]

All Vet builds will want CS, VS, 2x IBS, MSG, and +P+ baseline

[tall torrent]

Crit chance is another thing tho, that does change dps with some weapons a lot

[barren nimbus]

When people mention nodes I have no idea what they’re talking about. I have to see it with my eyes to recall

[tall torrent]

SG = Psyker’s right side ability, give self big buff
DD = Psyker’s right side keystone, highlight enemies in blue

[barren nimbus]

That makes more sense as to why I didn’t remember that for vet

Executioner stance builds usually run me the highest damage with ease, the problem with it, is your utility and defence is terrible

I wish golden toughness wasn’t such a key component to difficult missions because it pretty much pigeonholes the meta

[tall torrent]

It’s not so bad outside of havoc

[hearty panther]

you learn to live without

managing toughness is its own skill, VoC unfortunately shortcuts it

infiltrate has similar effects without the bonus of gold toughness overtop

[solar valve]

you dont need gold toughness for aurics

more debatable on high havoks, but a lot of the CC abilities in the game also give toughness or some sort of DR

[barren nimbus]

Even auric maelstrom basically every time I die if I literally just had voc I would have lived easily or the mission would have been easier

You have to play so much better

And it’s a shame cause braced autogun and exe stance is so fun

[solar valve]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I bring that in aurics lol

I dont find I have a toughness issue

just snipers and bombers being annoying

[barren nimbus]

crushers and maulers being immune to bullets too

[warm walrus]

do i dump mobility on kantrael 7

i was gonna try for 2b but i got a 7 and it might be pretty close to solid

[uncut pebble]

Yes.

[warm walrus]

sweet

[vernal harbor]

me dumping stability and realizing it’s a hard stat not a skill stat

[barren nimbus]

I feel like all stats are entirely irrelevant. I tested dumped stability on the fucking ripper gun and it made no noticeable difference

[hollow ibex]

try dumping damage bro 👍

[tall torrent]

Well, that’s ripper gun

[fallen sable]

if I have lethal proximity on my bolt pistol, do I have to have it equipped for the range bonus on nades

[warm bolt]

Nope

[vernal harbor]

If you dump stability on a marksman gun youl see when you pull the trigger it’ll manually miss

on top of suppression effect you can just watch as it’s grabbing your gun and throwing your shots even if you fought the bouncing to get the shot

and then of course your headshot crit could just not register 1-2 times on top of that

[tame void]

I thought stability was just the recoil?

[vernal harbor]

Stability is all accuracy in a bundle

different variables effect certain things but basically easier vs harder to be allowed to hit what your crosshairs are on

it’s the most obvious with single shot marksman guns

kantrael lasgun best example

just bouncing like it’s shaking it’s ass

[wild summit]

what is again the op dueling sword build?

[hollow ibex]

literally anything

[long breach]

Is the special attack on dueling sword worth using? I usually just spam heavies

It inflicts bleed?

[loud belfry]

the special attack on DS is good at staggering enemies. should use it after heavies cuz it's quite fast

[slow sky]

yes
it is a force stagger

lemme find a clip

on zealot but it doesnt matter it gets the point across

just make ragers unable to play the game

this weapon needs to be shot dead

[dry cloak]

[wanton dawn]

Ds has not clicked for me atm

It is good against taggeable enemies but i dont like it for trash

"Just use nade lol"

[dry cloak]

I just dont like dueling sword in general

Moveset clashes with my style of play

[wanton dawn]

Heavy sword is not that good atm

[dry cloak]

I meant dueling sword

Dueling sword

[warm walrus]

just to check, vets usually dont take shotgun at higher levels right

[wanton dawn]

No

[dry cloak]

Heavy sword is my absolute favourite on zealot

[warm walrus]

Okay yeah wanted to confirm

[warm walrus]

Using bolter, plasma, and lasgun 2b

eying helbore

[dry cloak]

I mean you can if youre good enoigh at the game

[wanton dawn]

You have anti carapace built in

[warm walrus]

lasgun 7 is my use rn while waiting for 2b

[dry cloak]

Explain please

[dry cloak]

Sights will kill you

[wanton dawn]

"Top meta" according to dwellers is boltgun, boltpistol, plasma, recon

[wanton dawn]

Fotf

[dry cloak]

I run it with marty

[frank ledge]

Ignorance, Boss is blind to the truth of BISTOL META

[dry cloak]

I have revolver for armor and mosnster

[warm walrus]

im still stunned at how fast recon shot to the top, i def remember it was hot ass at launch

[frank ledge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1315163441186471997/crumple.gif

[wanton dawn]

In any case, heavy sword getting shafted by carapace is a problem on vet

[frank ledge]

Is it?
Volver/Bistol/Boltor Boss

[austere mica]

It’s an Infernus hose in havoc

[warm walrus]

Recon wants... infernus and dumdum, flak+maniac?

[dry cloak]

https://youtu.be/1M9nFZ_BETQ?si=cUOQ9AyZy2HahJoN

[wanton dawn]

Rager carapace did not help

[dry cloak]

Nice overview of weapon sandbox

[wanton dawn]

Boss arent carapace

Volver is not meta on havoc

[frank ledge]

Boss=Veteran

[dry cloak]

Yes

Boss is veteran

[wanton dawn]

Is it even meta now

[dry cloak]

Revolver?

[wanton dawn]

Best vet tool against carapace are all melee and nade

[frank ledge]

Kraks go brrr

[dry cloak]

Crits revolver with handcannon and exe stance begs to differ

[wanton dawn]

Revolver is so good it doesnt exist in h40 with messed up bp

Also exe stance coping

[dry cloak]

Im talking aurics here

[wanton dawn]

Am not

[dry cloak]

Havoc has seperate rules for it

For havoc its kraks and melee yes

[frank ledge]

Havoc ammo econ on it's way to make the better veteran classes unusuable:

[dry cloak]

Explain pleasr

[wanton dawn]

Tunnel incoming, my connection

[calm shard]

nobody does

[frank ledge]

Glugger requires a no ammo vet (helbore) and team sacrifices to play Havoc and gunker can't shoot often due to ammo econ destruction

[calm shard]

ammo economy sucks, and it hasn't gotten a damage buff to still have competitive breakpoints

[calm shard]

why the fuck would you use kraks in havoc?

land of 20 million dueling sword 4 users

[frank ledge]

You have an Ogryn

You SHOULD have an Ogryn

[calm shard]

use shredders so you can do something that those weirdos aren't going to do in half the time of your kraks fuse

[wanton dawn]

Talent economy. Skipping frags is usually a mistake yeah

[dry cloak]

Last time i played i had relic blade. Other zealot and psyker had ds4 and vet had power sword

And vet had kraks and those helped immensely

[calm shard]

why the fuck is a psword vet using kraks

is he stupid?

does he not know the 2 shot?

can he not land melee headshots to save his life?

[dry cloak]

Stop insulting my friend okay

[frank ledge]

Even with the two shot, havoc throws massive amounts of elites you want controlled

[dry cloak]

He played with kraks plasma and psword and did his part very well

[frank ledge]

So while your krak is working, you are working somewhere else

[calm shard]

plasma AND psword and still uses kraks

augh

just

takes maybe half a second

about a third of a kraks fuse

[frank ledge]

Besides I still use shock maul vet so my opinion is sort of invalid

[dry cloak]

Its very valid pal

I also use shock maul

[calm shard]

it's not valid on havoc

it doesn't have enough cleave for that game mode

normally though yeah very fun weapon

[frank ledge]

I named myself PoliceBrutality and will keep doing the meme

I'm a recon vet, I just shoot into hordes and won't be stopped

[dry cloak]

As long as tou have shock trooper

[frank ledge]

Yes

[dry cloak]

Very good pal

[calm shard]

even with shock trooper recon is kinda bad horde clear compared to any good melee weapon on vet

I can only imagine knife being worse than it

or y'know one of these things

[thick needle]

Does the frag grenade only benefit from Lethal Proximity if the Bistol is out or is it constant

[calm shard]

constant

[thick needle]

Yey

Been doing well with a DS/Bistol WS build using Tinkerer Frags but I keep chucking the nades while the sword is out

[frank ledge]

Damage number go up faster than allied

[wanton dawn]

I need to try bpistol next for h40. Dunno how i'd build it though

[frank ledge]

Are you gonna actually shoot bistol or are you a grenadier?

[thick needle]

I use Lethal Proximity and Puncture with Flak/Maniac

[wanton dawn]

I dont work like that

[frank ledge]

[wanton dawn]

I try stuff and i keep what i like

[loud belfry]

not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing or just a thing but dang those are similar (my damage)

[wanton dawn]

Ws build natural state

[loud belfry]

tru

[thick needle]

Dueling Sword generally isn't great enough at hordeclear to rely much on the critical weakspot blessing
I just swap it out, firing occasional point blanks every 3-5 stacks or to trigger the Toughness regen

[wanton dawn]

I feel like ws is wasted on ds

[thick needle]

It do love that movement speed and crit + finesse

[frank ledge]

I feel like ds is a crutch

[wanton dawn]

The plan might indeed be keystoneless grenadier bpistol/ds

[frank ledge]

that will hopefully be nerfed

[wanton dawn]

Well, i still like to bring tag

[thick needle]

Oh absolutely it's kinda cracked
The speed with which it deletes elites is bonkers

[wanton dawn]

Am not sure how you nerf it without gutting it

[thick needle]

Hordeclear is quite literally its only flaw and it's not even that bad at it

[dry cloak]

Kill the mobility and carapace damage a bit

So not 2 shot crusher

[thick needle]

Yeah the 120% armor pen is a little extra lol

That being said, I would probably get clobbered trying to run H26 with the chainsword instead of the DS

[frank ledge]

It shouldn't just be a better knife and mk4 shouldn't be so far above the other 2

Delete the mk4

Or change it's moveset to stleast require some routing

[dry cloak]

And kill the armor pen

[frank ledge]

Could also just copy paste vt2 and have the big damage be only on max charge

[dry cloak]

Sabers were never good at defeating armor

And dueling sword is a saber

[jaunty tinsel]

what weapons do u guys recommend synergize best w/ recon?

bonus points if its not an axe for flavor

[dry cloak]

Devil claw

[frank ledge]

Parry stick

[calm shard]

lower the carapace damage modifier so it isn't 2 shotting them with uncanny strike

[jaunty tinsel]

how come/how best to use?

[dry cloak]

Look up jctlives guide on them

One of the newer videos

In short good agains flak, horde and maniac, not good against carapace, can parry

[frank ledge]

Parry negates knockback too

[dry cloak]

Yup

[quartz nymph]

Buff knife

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/furetto-ferret-chat-chat-morta-dead-chat-gif-20967081

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/no-family-guy-bad-dog-newspaper-peter-gif-9587434

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/bvndit-dead-chat-dead-group-chat-lol-gif-26075659

[oblique totem]

Not dead. Just sleeping.

I think

80 percent sure

[loud belfry]

true

[formal ice]

This chat is so dead

Lets not use this chat for 24 hours

[tough tiger]

https://youtu.be/sbgYaeerXhg?si=XPvjzJLbRJ4kWHJ0

Dead chat no longer

[loud belfry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1069503249809420299/1330713296206168187/godzilla.gif

[tropic halo]

And yet the chat still dead

[tropic halo]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-let-him-cook-cook-cooking-breaking-bad-gif-27522167

Who let them cook?

[warm bolt]

What's the meta havoc 40 build

[formal ice]

Uhhhhh not playing vet

[warm bolt]

Cause im not sure if it's my skill issue, randos' skill issue or my build issue

[formal ice]

Whats your build?

[warm bolt]

[formal ice]

[warm bolt]

VOC + WS, cant really remember the full full build rn cause i'll need a minute to hop on darktide to check

But im also using plasma and switched from PS to DS a while back

[tropic halo]

2026 release for astartes 2 is insane

[fleet garden]

skill issue

[warm bolt]

[formal ice]

Huh

Sounds decent

What path on the talent tree?

[warm bolt]

Gimme a sec gonna try and launch darktide again

Cause last time it was not cooperating for some reason

[formal ice]

[warm bolt]

It worked

This is the full build

[formal ice]

Thats... Certainly different

[warm bolt]

Dont remember where i nabbed it from, the DS is the one i got a while ago, optimised cooling on plasma gun cause i like it better

[warm bolt]

In a good way, right?

...right?

[formal ice]

THATS A WEIRD BUILD

Okay lemme look at the weapons first

Why do you have extra maniac damage on your plasma gun?

[sullen jackal]

don't know where I was going with this so have weird batman

[formal ice]

Yo come check this build

[warm bolt]

I uh

Dont remember

[loud belfry]

orz

[warm bolt]

I think i heard somewhere that it's better to do maniac cause bosses are maniac or something?

[loud belfry]

bosses r unyielding

[formal ice]

Boss aren't maniacs

Pick carapace and it becomes better

[sullen jackal]

I've known a few maniac bosses in my life though.

A lot of ragers.

[formal ice]

Grenades

[sullen jackal]

frag out

[formal ice]

Dueling sword

Okay, why you have infested on your DS?

[unreal nova]

Nu, carapace and flak. Still, 3 frags.

[tame lodge]

And why is it a t3 infested 😭

[formal ice]

Ran out of money while makin it

[warm bolt]

Im a moronnnnn

I didnt check it at all

[formal ice]

Dang

[warm bolt]

So basically the fixes so far are to change doodoo perks?

[formal ice]

I do recommend to change the mark to IV

[formal ice]

Calm down

THERES TOO MUCH TO WORK WITH HERE

[unreal nova]

The penetration is gimped reeeeeeeeeeee Just noticed.

[warm bolt]

oh

[warm bolt]

Uh huh

[formal ice]

Okay I think the blessings you can use for DS is Thrust, Uncanny Strike and/or Rampage

[unreal nova]

Agile is fine.

But that pen... reeeeeeeeeeee

No uncanny to compensate reeeeeeeeeeee

[formal ice]

Okay I think the Plasma Gun is fine

Time to look at the talent tree...

[soft trellis]

iirc the meta is 69% on the thermal resist and 71% on the charge rate for the plasma gun

I could have those 2 backwards

I'll look it up rq in the guide here

[unreal nova]

Is.

Some guy changed their name to reflect it.

[tough tiger]

Bro what is that build?

Thats so gay

Thrust over uncanny is a no no

[unreal nova]

@tired egret

[tame lodge]

@tired egret

[soft trellis]

@warm bolt Here it is

Guess they found it first and confirmed what I was pretty sure about lol

[tame lodge]

If it's for Havoc then hordes are too thick for DS Rampage

[formal ice]

Huh

[soft trellis]

those 21st mobian hordes have more hitmass

[soft trellis]

Do base horde enemies have more mass as well?

[warm bolt]

I heard that all enemies just get more hitmass in havoc but that was as passing from a video

[tame lodge]

Seems like it

[hearty panther]

All horde types yes.

[soft trellis]

3.2x mass? Holy mass

Can the lights on the dueling sword even hit 3 targets?

[hearty panther]

No

[soft trellis]

Can they even hit 2? lol

[hearty panther]

Yes, maybe

[unreal nova]

Your ds4 is pure single target.

[tame lodge]

It has 4.5 cleave

A buffed Poxwalker would have ~4.37 mass

[unreal nova]

I know since I do H40 with one.

[soft trellis]

even with +60% attack speed I doubt it would do much for hordes at that point >.>

[formal ice]

@warm bolt Okay I tried making a talent tree for you, what ya think?

[tame lodge]

Wrath stocks going up on Havoc

[unreal nova]

Even on Zealot.

[soft trellis]

That's what i was getting at, but, yeah lol

[warm bolt]

Seems good, thanks a lot for the help!

[soft trellis]

I mean zealot can get... 20% 10% 24%... so 54% attack speed total with 6 marty wound buffs and chastise... and yeah that would not cut it at that mass

[formal ice]

Aye, couldn't leave you with that old build

[unreal nova]

At best, is one hit one target. And you can smack fast.

Your finger will die though.

[sullen jackal]

nuh uh, use mods

[grand perch]

If this is for plasma+DS I'd say you get much more value from redistributing longshot + volley adept + always prepared and getting superiority complex + bring it down + the 25 toughness node on the way there instead

Or, you know, save a point on kill zone since it's extremely situational and not helpful to pathing

You could get demo team instead which is bonkers

[cloud thunder]

@sullen jackal

[warm bolt]

[last marten]

is the censorship ironic humor

[cloud thunder]

It’s server rules

[severe gale]

you don’t have to censor names in scoreboards

unless you’re actively naming and shaming

it doesn’t really matter

[last marten]

you missed the bottom ones

[severe gale]

LOL

[cloud thunder]

I was saying those pugs were bad

[cloud thunder]

Oh well. I tried

[severe gale]

meh

most pubs are

nothing new

[cloud thunder]

Yeah. Just saying to that guy in zealot chat that I just do my own thing in pugs. It’s better.

Trying to cover for bad teammates usually fucks you over most of the time

[severe gale]

you can play with the team without having to babysit

[cloud thunder]

Yeah pretty much what I do

I solo roam while being on edge of fight then I come clear the horde, then solo roam again

Looking for ammo, etc

If boss comes, I ping to back up a bit and isolate. If they listen, great. If not, 🤷‍♂️

I door killed a DH that one of them aggro’ed in that game

And I even said “DH ahead”

💀

[fleet drift]

Have just try Infantry lasgun vet today

[dry cloak]

yes?

[fleet drift]

It’s surprising fun

[dry cloak]

it is

[fleet drift]

only problem is the Crusher congaline

[dry cloak]

which lasgun are you using

[fleet drift]

The middle one

[dry cloak]

i mean helbore, recon or infantry

[fleet drift]

Infantry

[dry cloak]

yeah it shits itself when carapce comes in

[fleet drift]

I usually run Recon and Plasma

[dry cloak]

try bolter or infafatry autogun with exe stance

its fun

[fleet drift]

I will considering running hellbore when the thing have a karking scope on

Already finished my Bolter run it’s very very fun

Hence why I want to give infantry lasgun another shot

Being able to cri headshot consistently from long range is sooooooo good

Also the ammo economy is very forgiving as well

[tame lodge]

Weak Aura

Strong Aura we ball

(the mk4 has the better sights)

[fleet drift]

Iron sights is so hard to use both in game and IRL

[sacred igloo]

Just aim better

It's a usable sight

[warm bolt]

Not in the lights out mission

[tame lodge]

I mean
Most enemies have glowing bits

Just align your sights with it

[warm bolt]

Never tried that

[tame lodge]

[warm bolt]

It could 100% just be my tunnel vision but it's easy to lose the iron sight itself

So like instead of a clean shot it's more like hail mary somewhere in the postal code of the glowing bit

[sacred igloo]

I mean I tag whatever I'm about to shoot so I can line up headshots easier

But it's not hard to do IMO

Maybe I've just gotten used to it

I even tried wep customization and still found it easier to use the irons so idk

[grand perch]

the irons on helbore are perfectly fine, but you need to get used to them

which is a problem if you use a lot of different weapons

every time you switch back to helbore, you need to get used to them again

i ultimately decided to mod different irons on them that dont need time to adjust

[warm bolt]

I really like vrax skin ironsides ngl

Wish they were the default

[sacred igloo]

I can't stand those ones

[grand perch]

i wish there were M1 garand ironsights, those are the best

[fleet drift]

There’s a skin with iron sight!?

[sacred igloo]

It feels like regular irons with more shit getting in my view

It adds basically nothing

[warm bolt]

Yep, the krieger one which was in store a while ago

[fleet drift]

The same one I use in my training IRL

[warm bolt]

Real

Obese megalodon please, voss type lasgun for steel legion with M1 garan sights

[warm bolt]

Eh, to each their own

Granted, i also havent played helbore that much cause i've been trying to get karking havoc 25

So who knows, maybe i'll get used to the stock ones

[fleet drift]

Me who’s bad at FPS in general and don’t even dare touching Havoc

[warm bolt]

Lol

Just play knife shroud zealot

First person shooter? Not quite

[tame lodge]

I mean

If you're a vet in Havoc

Then you'll be in all duties at the same time

Shooting? Vet

Melee? Vet

Boss? Vet

What was the saying

[sullen jackal]

Vet? Vet

[warm bolt]

[oblique totem]

Vet?

[tame lodge]

"Two times the effort for half the impact"

[warm bolt]

Box? Vet

[oblique totem]

Psyker? Vet

[warm bolt]

I havent heard that one but im absolutely taking it now

[oblique totem]

Daemonhost? Vet

[cloud thunder]

? Vet is hella strong in havocs

[soft trellis]

Cheeseburger? Vet

[tame lodge]

Probably the 4th Havoc wise

[cloud thunder]

?

[oblique totem]

All Vet team

[cloud thunder]

It’s one of the best. Wym

[sullen jackal]

All team Vet

[tame lodge]

Psyker numba 1
Then either ogryn or zealot
Then vet

If your zealot is a chorus bot

[cloud thunder]

I would say psyker > vet > zealot > ogryn

You trolling

[tame lodge]

I'm not

[oblique totem]

I've zealots in havoc

[cloud thunder]

Wait are you the guy that only plays heresy? Pretty sure I saw someone call you out for that

[oblique totem]

They are not on par with Ogryns

Especially since the gunners got buffed

[cloud thunder]

Vet absolutely shreds in havoc 40

[tame lodge]

Psyker does it easily
Zealot Relic Blade
Ogryn Shield

Vets have to do a lot to be impactful

[sullen jackal]

gotta be a veteran to play vet it's true

[cloud thunder]

All havoc 40

[oblique totem]

I would not say that clicking on heads is astrat with a high skill ceiling

[cloud thunder]

Tell me vet is bad

[soft trellis]

vet is bad (in randos hands)

[tame lodge]

I'm not telling you vet is bad

Lmao

[cloud thunder]

You’re capping if you think it’s 4th in a skilled player’s hands

[oblique totem]

Not "bad" just the worst

[cloud thunder]

Skill issue I guess

[soft trellis]

That's why I put (in randos hands) in my comment... cause all classes are bad in their hands

[oblique totem]

Which I disagree with.

[soft trellis]

[tame lodge]

If every character is in skilled hands

Then vet is 4th on Havoc

Simple as

[cloud thunder]

You realize fuplayz’s team is skilled?

[sullen jackal]

psyker highest skill ceiling always first

[tame lodge]

I don't even know who fuplayz is

[sullen jackal]

to be fair you have to have a very high IQ to play psyker

[oblique totem]

Unless you're running the zap build

Then you can just stun lock hoards forever

[cloud thunder]

He’s a streamer, a very good player

Mains vet actually

[cloud thunder]

Like I asked, is it true you only play heresy

Saw you get called out for it a few times

[tame lodge]

I will not answer simply to entertain the fact that you listen to rumors of other people that doesn't know me

Good luck figuring it out

[cloud thunder]

So I’m wasting my time with you.

[oblique totem]

Does it matter either way?

[cloud thunder]

Yes

I don’t care about bad players’ opinions

[oblique totem]

A bad player can still have a point based on observations

[cloud thunder]

Doesn’t mean it’s correct.

[oblique totem]

Still worth considering

[sacred igloo]

I guess I don't mind bad iron sights since I play stalker n other shit like that

AK iron sights make you get used to a lot of garbage

[warm bolt]

Stalker, nice

[soft trellis]

If you don't understand what makes something good and all you see is bad examples of course you will think something is bad

[warm bolt]

I will never forget being sick and playing shadow of chernobyl early in the morning as a kid

A singular high-difficulty PM would obliterate any boss in darktide ngl

[cloud thunder]

Facts

[crisp oak]

Helbore makes you use a picatinny rail as a sight

[cloud thunder]

Anyways back to work

[soft trellis]

This is a subjective pov. It has no objectivity behind it

[oblique totem]

sure but this is not a particularly complex game. I imagine even if a person is unskilled at the mechanics they can still grasp what works and what doesn't.

[cloud thunder]

No

[soft trellis]

Not always, fatshark doesn't give good descriptions of things on a WHOLE bunch of things. And without understanding what to use on weapons or what builds to use with weapons means you don't know

[crisp oak]

Vet is not 4th in havoc for one simple reason, survivalist

[cloud thunder]

If they’re not skilled, they can’t play the build to its full potential or if they don’t understand how specific things synergizes within their builds

[soft trellis]

It isn't cut and dry on paper

[crisp oak]

For vet it is, having the most impactful aura of any character in havoc

[soft trellis]

People still say the heavy sword sucks, because in their opinion(which is subjective) it does

[crisp oak]

Not to mention field improv if taken

[oblique totem]

I maintain that Vet is one of the simpler classes and is definitely not the worst of all four in terms of effort vs impact

[uncut pebble]

Low skill floor classes be like that sometimes.

[oblique totem]

You can be god awful but if you spam VoC you're still gonna be able to support your team

[soft trellis]

Like... if you're gonna say a class is simple look at Ogryn

It has the least skill expression of the 4 classes

[oblique totem]

Didn't say simplest

[soft trellis]

Then why even say something like this?

[oblique totem]

Wasn't my opinion, I was clarifying what the other guy meant.

[tawdry jackal]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d1aada8-9bba-4bf3-aa91-009a019d3b54/boltgunner-shout

quick question, how to tune this for havocs?

[soft trellis]

Like... at a base veteran might be simple in some regards, but, it is one of the two classes with the most build variety(psyker is the other)

[oblique totem]

Ranked vet as 4th, then said he didn't think it was bad.
So, not "Bad" just worst.
Which, I disagre with

It has a high ceiling, sure. You can do a lot with vet if you know what you're doing. But I'm saying you can also do a lot even if you don't know what you are doing.

[soft trellis]

You still have to have some basic understanding of the game to use those, because without that you die as fast as psykers do

It doesn't have decent dr as a base like ogryn, or access to a death defy like zealot. Toughnes on elite kill is great, but, you have to take it to use it

And zealot might not take death defy

but still ogryn and zealot are sturdier classes at a base level

without understanding how to play a tide game you can't use your resources, because you just die

[oblique totem]

Vets can easily out toughness both ogryn and zealot

[soft trellis]

as all classes

[soft trellis]

while zealot and ogryn can outsurvive some things vet can't

and then if you bring skill into the arguement it becomes a moot point

[oblique totem]

I rarely see Zealots survive longer than vets.

Ogryns, it depends.

[soft trellis]

Rando zealots not surviving better than rando vets? No way...

[oblique totem]

We are taking skill out of the comparison, yeah?

[soft trellis]

frontline classes will be closer to the front line which means you have to take that into account

[oblique totem]

So yes, randos

[soft trellis]

and that means they will be subject to more enemies

[light ridge]

Rando Zealots die alone on the other side of the map

[soft trellis]

so yeah... rando vets dealing with less enemies in their face will generally survive longer than rando frontline classes with more enemies on them

[raw needle]

efvery class is a frontline class if you're not a COWARD

[oblique totem]

The things that kill zealots aren't melee enemies. The risk to both classes is the same

In melee, a zealot is theoretically invincible

[soft trellis]

Yes, but, dealing damage, being closer to enemies, etc affects how enemies target them

[errant carbon]

Even if you are a coward, the front line will come to you

[soft trellis]

Think about it... out of a massive front horde... how many of them are running at the person further back than the person in the front line?

[oblique totem]

Given that hoards swarm from every direction, I'm not sure there is such thing as a back line

[soft trellis]

And when that happens? guess what: the backline randos die

[oblique totem]

Nor do I often see vets hanging far back

The comparison is an odd one and I'm not sure it really addresses my point of the vet class being easier to pick up for a lower skilled player

[light ridge]

Lots of theorycrafting going here

[soft trellis]

A survival arguement is based ultimately to how many enemies are targeting them... and ogryn and zealot are more likely to be towards the front

ogryns have passive dr(and tdr), zealots don't

[light ridge]

The only time the horde ignores me as a vet and I'm not in the frontline is when I pop Infiltration to pick someone up or run the objectives

There is no front or back in a Damnation horde, there is only the horde

[soft trellis]

Still... saying that they take shout, is like saying a zealot takes death defy... both increase survivability, neither are guaranteed to be taken

[oblique totem]

And the point about survival period was brought up in reply to my comment about Vet toughness. I maintain that the vet class has the best toughness regen in the game, which is a significant advantage for someone who might not understand the game very well

[sullen jackal]

damage doesn't matter actually as far as I can tell.

Closeness(large factor)
Whether or not they're cc'ed(most enemies prioritize cc'ed players less, hordes prioritize more)
Positioning(some enemies like separated players)
Threat(a value increased by killing enemies with ranged attacks and suppressing with ranged attacks. Suppression counts as two kills, interestingly.)

[soft trellis]

Here we go, better facts on the matter ^

[sullen jackal]

basically ranged only vet is a giant magnet, knife zealot is basically invisible

[soft trellis]

Okay, but, that is implying vet takes confirmed kill and/or shout... which can be counterargued with a zealot taking twbs and until death

[sullen jackal]

also if you're being overwhelmed, you should swap to melee, because melee kills do not increase threat and will effectively let that aggro fade until you are no longer overwhelmed

[oblique totem]

A bit into splitting hairs there aren't we?

[sullen jackal]

using ranged in melee will only get more enemies in melee with you, and is an easy way to die.

[light ridge]

Recon lasgun is a melee weapon, no?

[oblique totem]

It can be

[sullen jackal]

No.

[soft trellis]

Pretty much... survival dependant on talents taken is applied to both classes... which randos don't follow good meta or solid builds

[sullen jackal]

Not for this at least.

[light ridge]

This guy gets it

[oblique totem]

When it comes to randos, vet players are either running VoC or Exe stance.

The only people I've seen running infiltration are usually good enough to solo the map or trolls

[soft trellis]

Look at zealots... it's a mix of the 3 career skills, but, probably more stealth and chastise

[light ridge]

I run Infiltration because I don't trust the rest of the random to support me as I support them

[sullen jackal]

seriously don't be the stupid random who goes down shooting into a horde when they should be swapping to melee and pushing

[oblique totem]

Troll or high skilled ninja?

[soft trellis]

and they still die all the same as other classes... the only thing that really speeds this up is how many enemies are attacking them

[oblique totem]

Sure but stupid players die to stupid things all the time

[sullen jackal]

incidentally yeah the 90% threat talent on infiltration affects this mechanic so

[oblique totem]

That's their special talent

[soft trellis]

And we're taking skill-less players into account, so yes: stupid players

[light ridge]

Somewhat in between?
I run Infiltration, too many people in randos forget the objective, go down out of coherency or other stuff

[soft trellis]

the moment skill is brought into the equation it is a moot point

[sullen jackal]

In proper play of course, the melee tank is properly managing the horde anyway with pushing and attacks so threat is moot.

But like... If you are shooting and being attacked in melee, the melee Frontline has failed and shooting enemies will simply pull more enemies into melee with you.

[oblique totem]

I feel like we buried the lead somewhere

[sullen jackal]

and then you will die because every single enemy on the map will want to kill you over any other player

[soft trellis]

I've literally seen every class die at an equal % to all the other ones, based on all randos I've seen...

[light ridge]

I run Shout in Havoc, but otherwise I prefer Infiltration

[sullen jackal]

(unless you swap to melee)

[oblique totem]

And I have not seen that

[soft trellis]

You haven't played long enough then

[oblique totem]

In my experience, zealot players go down the fastest

[soft trellis]

Again: a more front line driven class... yeah they might die faster

[oblique totem]

Except the other guy demonstarted how a shooting class is more likely to be attacked

[sullen jackal]

bet. head explodes scanner style as psyker

[soft trellis]

Who is closer to the patrol of crushers and maulers? The guy shooting or the guy going in with a melee?

[light ridge]

Zealots die more because they believe they can solo the map, zealot brain
Ogryn die more because they are easier to shoot

[raw needle]

psykers literally kill themselves
vets die more cause they thought darktide was a shooter

[oblique totem]

I believe it's more down to- Yeah, Zealot brain.

Not so much the Front line class thing.

[raw needle]

every time i failed true survivor was due to a psyker killing themselves

100% rate

[vernal trench]

its always teh psykers thatr die the most in havocs

[soft trellis]

Like... yeah... I get you might see zealots die faster... but randos are a bad thing to measure this by

[errant carbon]

wdym I can't just have a ranged weapon out full time like in my favorite ARPGs

[sullen jackal]

yeah but unless the melee actively emgsges them with attacks/pushes, the person shooting will almost 100% of the time be the target

[raw needle]

literally yeah psykers die the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[light ridge]

Happens to me too when playing my Zealot, so easy to get stuck into it

[sullen jackal]

they'll just ignore the brain frozen zealot to bonk the veteran in the back

[soft trellis]

Randos literally can all die to 1 rager on malice...

all level 30

from full health

[oblique totem]

That's actually a little impressive

[tawdry jackal]

Boltgun, mk6 psword. Any updates for havoc?

just started working my way from 1

[soft trellis]

I've seen it happen... I'm pretty sure more than 1 time...

[raw needle]

zealot is statistically the least likely to die cause until death

[sullen jackal]

i do it all the time not proud of it

[proven garden]

Must have been some dogshit zealots

[soft trellis]

And I mean the same rager

[light ridge]

Theoretically least likely

[sullen jackal]

it's uh difficult to not just attack into a rager and play defensively if targeted

[oblique totem]

Turns out that rager was actually the protagonist

The team just didn't know

[sullen jackal]

pretty sure the ranged target priority is part of the cause tho, a lot of people don't know that as melee part of your job is to make sure enemies can't get to the backline

[light ridge]

Ragers make me want play shield ogryn

[raw needle]

ragers are so anemic now

[oblique totem]

Early on I tried to 1 v 1 ragers

[raw needle]

esp if you compare them to vermintide berserkers

[sullen jackal]

so they can't keep ragers attention, and the ranged attackers who should trivialize ragers gets bonked and dead

[soft trellis]

Pretty much. I have to get ready, but... Yeah, some classes you will see die more. It happens. But the more and more you play the more % of randos of any class you see die... will even out

[oblique totem]

Now it's more like 1 v 5 ragers because the ai director hates me in particular.

[unreal nova]

And who will kill it then? You mean the bot when one of them dies and rage quit?

[sullen jackal]

sure.

or iunno do literally nothing but not die and there will be an opening

[oblique totem]

I've put something past 200 hours in this game. I'm by no means a new player

[proven garden]

Idk just shoot the rager

[raw needle]

idk bout y'all but my mission is to kill anything and everything and if some "backline" ppl dont know what button switches their gun to melee it might just be their problem 🙂

[sullen jackal]

yes but as I explained, that requires the rager to get properly blocked by the melee

[proven garden]

No it doesn’t lmao just shoot them they aren’t tanks

[sullen jackal]

otherwise they will just beeline the person shooting

[proven garden]

You talk like ragers are a raid boss that require teamwork to beat

[oblique totem]

It would be more, but Darktide itself seems to not actually want me to play it

[light ridge]

More dakka?

[proven garden]

It’s literally just a drugged up hobo who learned to hold two weapons at once

Shoot them

[sullen jackal]

they're an elite enemy which needs to be controlled

[proven garden]

Yea I control them with a gun the status effect is called death

[oblique totem]

Gun > sword

[proven garden]

They come close I power on the power sword and it staggers them out of every attack

[sullen jackal]

There are three lanes at any time. The main lane which most enemies come from, and the left and right lanes from flankers. Code stuff.

[light ridge]

I loathe rager packs as much as the next guy but whenever possible back off and shoot tends to work

[raw needle]

do you have the beta helmet

[sullen jackal]

IMO part of melee job is to quite simply make sure this "main lane" stays a SINGLE LANE and doesn't split off.

[proven garden]

Code stuff lmao I never bothered with any of that I just shot anything far away and stabbed anything up close hasn’t let me down yet

[oblique totem]

Congrats. WHen I get around there I'll let you know what I've seen

[oblique totem]

Nah, I couldn't play the beta

[light ridge]

Also Infiltration, let the Zealot tank them with his face while I shoot them in the back

[oblique totem]

Like I said, the game seems to not actually want me to play it

[soft trellis]

I mean... I saw a lot more vets and psykers die first when I played... but over the 2 years the % of each class(meaning the % of how many of each of the class) that I saw die evened out

[sullen jackal]

If melee can do so properly, the left and right lanes get killed almost instantly which makes the game so much easier.

[oblique totem]

I still think vet is a more forgiving class for beginners and offers significant advantages for not that much effort

[raw needle]

oh yeah vet is the most broken class

[sullen jackal]

part of that is learning that people like numbers person here exist and let enemies run past them to harass vets/psykers :p

[oblique totem]

Very little said here has even indicated otherwise

[raw needle]

esp with shout and shit like iron will

and then you get talents like +10 crit and 25 finesse

[sullen jackal]

and playing more defensively to deal with the stragglers they let through

[soft trellis]

Yep, which is why I don't take that into account.

[raw needle]

best melee best ranged (infinite ammo)

[proven garden]

I move forward and kill things

Gg

[soft trellis]

Gunners(the elite ones) are a lot more oppressive to zealots and ogryns, I would say, nowadays

[proven garden]

Stand up or shut up

[oblique totem]

your face is your shield

[proven garden]

I am the comet

I burn the impure

What’s all this bull crap about teamwork and cooperation I can do it all myself

[raw needle]

remember kids darktide isnt a team game
everyone should be able to handle everything by themselves

[proven garden]

You can clean up after me or something idk

[raw needle]

as they say

clutch or kick

[oblique totem]

They used to drop zealots who went ahead without support. Now they drop zealots who just happened to step out of cover

[sullen jackal]

They're kinda why I've moved more towards controlling the lane sort of thing. All ranged enemies are trivialized if you don't have to worry about melee enemies at the same time IMO.

[hollow ibex]

nah. psyker gets to ignore half the game's mechanics

[oblique totem]

It's oddly satisfying to watch.

[raw needle]

yeah but psyker requires a little bit of basic skill cause he doesnt have a lot of dr and base hp/toughness

[proven garden]

They need to make psyker self destruct do more damage

[oblique totem]

But it does make smoke grenades have a bit more utility

[raw needle]

martyrdom psyker

[oblique totem]

Which I'm happy about

[raw needle]

3 wounds

crystalline will

[proven garden]

Profound gap

[oblique totem]

Why not 6 wounds?

[soft trellis]

That's what happens with randos: 1 elite gunner? 3 dead randos

[sullen jackal]

So melee tank deals with the main line horde at a chokepoint where they can't be targeted at gunner range. Meanwhile two ranged attackers deal with the left/right flanks that frequently contain ranged enemies, and the fourth person is flex and deals with the unpredictable specialists.

[oblique totem]

God, I wish

[raw needle]

if we could we would

but wounds dont round up

[proven garden]

That’s hilarious

[raw needle]

and they dont go further then im assuming 1.9

[raw needle]

sir this is a wendys

[dry cloak]

any one up for havoc 40? lfg not responding

[raw needle]

not a mmo

[oblique totem]

early on I tried to maximize wounds. I got up to seven, I want to say

[sullen jackal]

me too but I think that's the general gist of overall team coordination

[proven garden]

Shit reminded me of the old world of Warcraft video

I forgot the name

Leroy Jenkins

[oblique totem]

Could have gone for eight but by then I realized it wasn't actually a good idea to do that

[sullen jackal]

in pubs you usually have to figure out what roles people innately take

[raw needle]

the only correct mindset is to always build as if your teammates were literal 3 year olds

unless you're playing a premade

[sullen jackal]

like numbers guy is a flex because they just kill shit whenever and don't really focus on melee or ranged enemies

[proven garden]

In pubs I ignore my teammates and move forward and kill things because I can just do it all myself

It’s not a flex it’s simply common sense

Put the karking boot in

[soft trellis]

8, on zealot, is only possible on malice, 7 is the max on heresy/damnation

[visual remnant]

Job isnt to babysit the psyker or vet

I wish psykers and vets would lose this mentality

[oblique totem]

Yeah that would match up with where I was at the time

[warm bolt]

CLOSE, KILL, DO IT AGAIN
-Best strategic mind as of yet

[visual remnant]

You are the two best melee characters in the game

[proven garden]

Like why do I need to rely on a teammate to shoot the gunners when I can literally just quickswap and shoot them myself while also handling the horde and all the elites

[raw needle]

speak up!!!!!

[proven garden]

Genuinely why should I

[soft trellis]

Welp, now I can't waste any more time with chatting (or i'll be late for work xD)

[sullen jackal]

so if they were a rando, I would see if there was like... An ogryn or a person who favors melee that is an effective "tank". If no, I would take up that job when needed, because anyone can do it with proper push attacks.

[proven garden]

I have all the options in my pocket I’m gonna use them

[oblique totem]

Who are we supposed to babysit?

[visual remnant]

A weapon specialst vet w a rashad only needs a wpn specialist proc and hter with one other talent to back to back two shot crushers

No other character can do this

[oblique totem]

Don't do that. Work is important.

[visual remnant]

Only need one blessing, a talent, and a keystone

[oblique totem]

I mean, probably.

[silk plinth]

That was me this morning 😬

[visual remnant]

I think this stems from the Ainz meme of Darktide being a singleplayer game tbh

A truer statement hasnt been spoken

[raw needle]

this but unironically

[visual remnant]

Why arent you protecting ME u imbeciles !!

[faint beacon]

Only worry about friends that’s it, pubbers I could care so damn little about

[sullen jackal]

yes see my point is that if I want to make sure you are unlikely to be downed doing that, I first should control the horde + mainline elites, and then if someone else is already doing that I should be focused on clearing out ranged units so they don't build up.

[oblique totem]

Imagine unironically playing Psyker

[visual remnant]

Cuz u have a plasma gun and a power sword

[oblique totem]

Couldn't be me

[raw needle]

this isnt a hero shooter this isnt an mmo

[tawdry jackal]

guess its time to go lasgun on haboc

[visual remnant]

(Two best weapons in the game)

[tawdry jackal]

*havoc. I noticed the need for it even at 2

[oblique totem]

I wish the powersword had more power charges

[visual remnant]

I dont

3 is more than enough

[raw needle]

IT HAD more then it got nerfed and darktide got review bombed!!!!

[visual remnant]

Two w the pa thrust and a light

[raw needle]

the good old days!!!

[visual remnant]

It used to have SEVEN with pc 4

[faint beacon]

I think you should hung in the streets by your toes and tomatoes thrown at you for being shameful with that opinion

[raw needle]

yeah but getting fucking pc was lowk impossible

[faint beacon]

Powersword on seriously needs a mega nerf and off needs buffs

[oblique totem]

Come on that is not the most offensive thing I have said today

[faint beacon]

So it doesn’t feel like shit using

[raw needle]

im good thank you

we need uhh

the uhh

whats it called

[visual remnant]

I got a pc 4 sword in melk many many many moons ago

[sullen jackal]

which honestly you're a selfish asshole that makes a successful team play around you instead of ever daring to support someone else but meh at least you're doing something compared to some randoms

[oblique totem]

I main the heavy sword ever since Vet got it. Very happy with that.

[visual remnant]

When it was broken

[raw needle]

catachan sword needs a blessing that gives it 100% rending on successfull parry

trust

[raw needle]

THAT ONE WAS MINE

[visual remnant]

Catachan needs a buff to its flak adm ffs

[proven garden]

Push/push attack/shout
press q
Shoot guh
Press q again
Back to melee horde

[visual remnant]

roundfish pls

[proven garden]

It’s not like I turn into a escort npc when I want to shoot something lmao

[raw needle]

we need a force catachan sword that explodes on parry

[visual remnant]

LMFAO

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/true-true-morgan-freeman-truth-spongebob-truth-nuke-gif-1296874394411357781

[proven garden]

I can literally just do it myself without any help from others

[visual remnant]

Alternatively, push up to the gunners

[oblique totem]

Sorry, catachan sword can't go through mild body armor

[faint beacon]

Cata blades are incredibly fun!

[proven garden]

I don’t know why you are so insistent that I have to scream for help every time any minor inconvenience comes my way

[faint beacon]

Just holy fucking shit anything with semblance of armor

You immediately die

[sullen jackal]

sure and I'll keep making sure you think that so we actually win :p

[proven garden]

Damn straight I’m making the team play my way the way is called I’m pushing forward and killing things you keep up and you can get some too

[raw needle]

YO MAN I LEGIT HAVE A CLIP OF A SMYKER SMITING ONE MAULER AND SCREAMING HELP IN VC

[visual remnant]

Unfortunately null there rlly isnt team roles beyond like the most fundamental in this game

[proven garden]

Who is we lmao

[oblique totem]

Very fancy blade work, too bad that uh, shit what's the chainaxe guy called again?

[raw needle]

kharn

[faint beacon]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/jAizbRE1JIMTcBPuz?invite=cr-MSx4a3UsMTA3NDAxNTczLA

Vic got trolled

Hard

[oblique totem]

Has flak armor on the chest and carapace on the head

[proven garden]

Idk what to tell you man you aren’t some guardian Angel anyone can run straight forward with a combat axe and revolver and just clean the floor

[raw needle]

ah fuck you meant

wait

[sullen jackal]

tbf it's mostly melee/ranged/ranged but adhd

[visual remnant]

LMFAO the shriek

[raw needle]

mauler

.

[visual remnant]

DAGH

[oblique totem]

You know who I mean
MAULER

Yeah, those fuckers

[proven garden]

I’m not turning a rager into a coordinated group effort I’m gonna pull out my gun and shoot it and move on with my day

[raw needle]

always

[visual remnant]

Rlly no need to have someone focus specials till like h40

[proven garden]

True

[warm bolt]

Bro got SQUEEZED to make that sound

[oblique totem]

I wanted to practice my parries on them since I thought they would be a good target.

Turns out, no.

[proven garden]

Eveyrthing dies too easily and there’s not enough pressure that requires you to focus on doing one fhings

[raw needle]

always need someone to focus specials so i have someone to blame when a single flamer comes through........

[proven garden]

You can literally just do everything at once

[visual remnant]

When the chaff/elites are difficult to manage for the frontliners so they need an infinite cleave plasma blast to obliterate the wanton trapper or errant hound sniffing about

[raw needle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/963663155140108328/1333357408147214386/fortnite_hatsune_miku_kasane_teto.gif

[oblique totem]

Infinite cleave plasmagun has saved so many runs

[proven garden]

Plasma felt so yucky to use

[visual remnant]

U can quick swap as ogryn too lol u dont rlly need to focus specials all that much ever in normal play, or elites

I have a ripper 5 for quickswap shenanigans on ogryn

[sullen jackal]

I have the flex dealing with specialists specifically because their lack of focus is the most likely to be able to target specialists and not be too busy with a large group of ranged or melee elites.

[visual remnant]

For whatever rsn the 5 has infinite range

Goodbye sniper 70 meters away

[raw needle]

minim,um pellet count

[oblique totem]

Wait, the ripper AUTOPISTOL?

[proven garden]

Minimum pellet count is a blessing from the gods

[raw needle]

good shotgun design

[proven garden]

No the ripper shotgun for the ogyrn

[oblique totem]

No, wait

[proven garden]

Is that even a shotgun idk anymore

[oblique totem]

Ripper shotgun. Duh

[raw needle]

rmeember when payday 2 shotguns used to deal full damage on any pellet with no falloff

basically a better sniper

[visual remnant]

I think generally you should focus specialists if you're playing with randoms as Vet from my personal experience

[oblique totem]

I almost had a stroke

[visual remnant]

I agree w u like in pubs

[sullen jackal]

Like... You know when you don't have time to deal with the sniper because you are currently being hammered by a dozen crushers and really really want someone else to shoot the sniper? If that happens, you're probably the melee combatant for your role at the moment.

[wanton dawn]

"How do I handle specialist ?" "Wrong. Your doing it wrong"

[sullen jackal]

(roles are flexible)

[visual remnant]

The general playerbase has an issue with mentally counting/keeping track of specials/elites and understanding target priority moment to moment

[oblique totem]

I don't play Ogryn. I have five characters. All of them are Vet class.

[visual remnant]

From my experience anyways

[raw needle]

always have to keep track of crushers so i can lead an overhead onto an unsuspecting teammate

[visual remnant]

LMFAO

Troo !

[sullen jackal]

You know that time where 30 gunners are shooting at you and holy shit how do you deal with anything else: your positioning means you are now in the ranged role have fuuuuuun

[visual remnant]

Sir, the Smyker was killed by the Crusher overhead

[oblique totem]

For some reason Crushers are the stealthiest of all the special classes

[raw needle]

good.....................

[proven garden]

Perfect

Continue the plan

[wanton dawn]

Daemonhost are a great test of ppl memory

[faint beacon]

It’s funny because you don’t really need to count exact just have an estimate of “Oh X is in play at the current moment I should watch our flanks”

[visual remnant]

Yah

[raw needle]

ONCE FATSHARK PUT OUT A PATCH THAT MADE THEM A LOT MORE VOCAL then it broke

[oblique totem]

Rip

[visual remnant]

I just think "there's a dog close" or "trapper close" and sorta juggle whatever's in front of me accordingly

[sullen jackal]

then the flex is the person not actually in those oh shit situations where they can quickly kill the specialists because of their lack of other priorities before assisting the two other roles

[raw needle]

hey remember chaos warriors

no more.........

[visual remnant]

Stop dodging to regen stamina for a hound leap

[proven garden]

Sigmar huh huh

[visual remnant]

Quickswap to kill a trapper

[wanton dawn]

I just know when someone has forgotten the tagged dh behind us

[faint beacon]

Bomber in the distance? Pop his skull if you can see him

[oblique totem]

I have a fight or flight response to the flamer pilot light clicking

[sullen jackal]

See youd I would frankly peg more as melee or ranged focuser depending on whether or not I see you using melee or ranged more.

[raw needle]

also you always need to keep track of barrels so you can throw your teammates off the map

[visual remnant]

There was a clip of a vet player who frequents vet chat where they had a marked dh in front of them and they walke obliviously into it, even after seeing the screen affect and the floor around it

And then as it aggrod crouched down and started poop waddling away

[proven garden]

That was me

[raw needle]

tbh i do that sometimes

brain fart

[proven garden]

Wallahi

[visual remnant]

It was probably the most endearing noob moment ever

[faint beacon]

You don’t spam back dodge?

[oblique totem]

I've seen that one

[faint beacon]

Like bro what

[raw needle]

legit walk into it and only notice it as its waking up

[vernal trench]

If people struggle to deal with the few disablers in auric maelstroms they would have no idea what to even do in high havocs

[visual remnant]

I play zeal almost exclusively

Or melee psyker

[faint beacon]

Like if I’m oblivious to a DH and hear to get woken up not agroed I immediately dump my dodges backwards

[visual remnant]

Vet is rlly boring to me

[faint beacon]

Cause I’d rather eat a down vs a death

[visual remnant]

Bsck when the game launched in my zygote days I started as vet

[raw needle]

oh yeah totally

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/ben10-ben10ultimate-alien-mistake-whoops-uh-oh-gif-18214061

[proven garden]

I found the hellbore really fun but that’s about it lmao

[visual remnant]

There's a lot of goofy builds

[sullen jackal]

well like ok there are 10 ranged enemies and a horde is coming what do you do first

[visual remnant]

Vet has such an amazing talent tree you can totally run keystoneless and not be throwing

[oblique totem]

I really like playing vet

[proven garden]

Give a pinch of that to ogyrn

[warm bolt]

If i had a penny for every magazine i've unloaded into a demonhost thinking it was some dreg while in a rush, i'd have exactly two nickels

[visual remnant]

In some cases w some builds it allows you to take better buffs than any of what the keystones give you

Ask Epic Cole for his recon lasgun crit build

[raw needle]

"must be a focus target ping"

[visual remnant]

It's awesome

[oblique totem]

Shoot gun, shout at heretics

[vernal trench]

Run ahead and trigger 5 waves of crusher hordes, die and rage quit

[visual remnant]

[visual remnant]

The horde

[sullen jackal]

we ignore specialists here because you seem to be aware of specialists enough that you don't have to target them first, and can deal with more important dangers

[visual remnant]

My tness generation and tdr as zealot only procs when fighting horde enemies

You push forward with the horde until you reach the gunners

Then kill the gunners

[oblique totem]

Didn't the cat also have a crazy recon lasgun build that would insta kill crushers?

[visual remnant]

Continue w the horde

[vernal trench]

Thats such horrible advice

[orchid hemlock]

If 5 crushers give you problems, u should probably go back to Malice

I JUST SAYING

[vernal trench]

5 waves not 5

[visual remnant]

Dodge talents dont proc on gunners as zeal

[vernal trench]

thats probbaly like 30 crushers

[visual remnant]

And we dont get tdr on headshot or regen on elite kill

[orchid hemlock]

Same thing

[oblique totem]

Nah see because I got three krak grenades right?

[visual remnant]

So the horde is a lifeline to deal with ranged enemies

[sullen jackal]

Ok. You would be the melee tank then. If you focus the horde I would generally expect you to ensure they don't immediately overwhelm me as the back line, and thus I would focus on taking out the ranged enemies first so they don't chip at your toughness.

[vernal trench]

Thats why some people shoudlnt be in high havocs

[visual remnant]

This is y i agreed w u

[raw needle]

banned for misinmorfation

[visual remnant]

That's how i play vet now tbh

I have a shooter larp build where i prioritize shooters

And that's like all i do

[raw needle]

the release darktide build.......

[vernal trench]

Tbh depends on what shooters and what horde

[proven garden]

I’m sure I’ll understand that mindset one day

[orchid hemlock]

High havocs tbh I WISH I just delt with 30 crushers 😔

Versus, one reaper

[raw needle]

rmeember when no one knew how to play and always had to have at least 1 teammate for shooter coverage

[vernal trench]

Pretty common in armored games tho

[proven garden]

For now I move forward and kill everything and I don’t intend to change until it stops working

[oblique totem]

Counter sniper builds are viable now since the gunner buff.

[visual remnant]

I run exec stance

[oblique totem]

I feel vindicated.

[vernal trench]

Armored spawns make brute conscripts look like a joke

Or reaper spawns

[oblique totem]

Smoke grenades plus exec stance, save the day

[visual remnant]

Cuz the ayatollah declared a fatwa against the use of VoC mashallah

[sullen jackal]

Really it's a target priority of melee elites > ranged elites > specialists I guess. However if people are doing target priority properly, this tends towards the three different roles I mentioned as like.... Everyone prioritizes the next in line if someone has a higher priority dealt with?

[proven garden]

Exe stance is so beautiful

[oblique totem]

Instead of getting cursed out over voice chat

[proven garden]

Point and shoot militarium style

[visual remnant]

Lmfao

For a while i was using the stealth ult in pubs

When i was grinding out all the vet penances

I learned to like it

[oblique totem]

Of course, VoC will always be my beloved

[visual remnant]

Smoke grenades too

[sullen jackal]

melee elites are just always with the horde I've seen

[proven garden]

I hated how it made my screen green but I loved the smoke grenade

[vernal trench]

Na u got that completely backwards tf

I mean ig it works in aurics cuz u dont get much specials

[warm bolt]

Exe stance node that adds like 20 AI with default lasguns to melt the target with sheer volume of fire when

[vernal trench]

but u should always be prioritizing specials

[oblique totem]

But to be honest, I enjoy using Exec stance more since, you know, it actually requires some skill

[proven garden]

More gun

[vernal trench]

If theres a special in a horde, kill it first then go back to dealing with the horde

[oblique totem]

Plus being able to light up every ranged enemy on the map is an amazing ability

[sullen jackal]

I'm thinking in terms of what will end you first if you don't defend against it. A rager combo or crusher overhead will, I assure you, kill you much faster than any specialist.

[vernal trench]

I like exec stance but it bugs out sometimes and doesnt highlight newly spawned enemies and its so confusing

[vernal trench]

They wont if u have good positioning

U shpuld be positioned in a way u can always quickly switch targets to specialists and back

[oblique totem]

A tragedy

[sullen jackal]

But, yes, the specialists are the highest danger to impacting your ability to deal with enemies. Thus they should be dealt with first, IF doing so does not impact your ability to avoid Instant Crusher Death.

[vernal trench]

Its bad position if u cant even deal with a specialist mid fighting a horde of crushers

[raw needle]

y'all really should give vermintide a try if you consider darktide ragers a threat

[proven garden]

https://tenor.com/view/vermintide-saltzpyre-nod-gif-24596871

[vernal trench]

Yea u deal with them as soon as u get an opportunity to

[sullen jackal]

right but if you're fighting a horde of crushers I am free to shoot the specialists because I have literally zero threat from the elites

[oblique totem]

I do so love when the game decides that what the team needs is fifteen ragers

[vernal trench]

Ye

[visual remnant]

I looooove ragers yum yum

[sullen jackal]

which you will probably, I hope, be happy about if the specialists cease to exist before you have to do anything about them

[raw needle]

the only actually scary elite is a bulwark that gets mixed with other shit

[oblique totem]

A dozen gunners, a swarm of dogs and, naturally, a pox bomber

[proven garden]

I hate bulwarks

[visual remnant]

Eat them 4 breakfast..

[vernal trench]

Ragers arent much of a threat unless ur absolutely cornered

[proven garden]

Krak grenade to the face

[visual remnant]

I also hate bulwarks

Flamer comes out upon glimpsing a shield

[vernal trench]

They dont die to a single krak in high havocs

[oblique totem]

Bulwarks are actually my favorite of all the ogryn enemies