veteran-class

[carmine arrow]

shame it looks so awesome

[quiet valley]

Go WS, Headtaker, Slaughter

[pastel yew]

bo6 didnt copy hell divers movement what

if you're saying that because theres a dive

[gilded meteor]

omnidirectional movement?

[pastel yew]

thats been here since bo1

omnidirectional movement was in infinite warfare

[gilded meteor]

thats a thing that helldivers popularized

[pastel yew]

also far older

[gilded meteor]

no, not like this

lol

[pastel yew]

bo6 omnidirectional also is

nothing like helldivers?

[gilded meteor]

it functions the same, they just added sliding too

[pastel yew]

hell divers is a third person game you cant say its omni directional because you can dive backwards

then max payne is omni directional lmao

I dont think they copied

[cobalt crest]

Tbh though I feel like just by virtue of being a PVE game its gonna automatically be easier because you can't make enemies smart enough

[gilded meteor]

so is double action boogaloo

[terse idol]

Gtfo was

So

[gilded meteor]

they never popularized it tho before helldivers

[terse idol]

Ballcrushing

[cyan verge]

helldivers 2 sucks

[pastel yew]

helldivers was overrated out of the gate

[terse idol]

2 hour long missions

[pastel yew]

it had nothing of substance

[terse idol]

For 1 mission

[pastel yew]

it was just a twitch hype wave

[terse idol]

And if you failed

[pastel yew]

you see them push awful games constantyl

[terse idol]

You had to do it again

[pastel yew]

look how much sm2 got hyped

for what reason?

[terse idol]

I think helldivers 2 was fine

Sm2 was mid

[terse idol]

Because 40k popula

It looked good

[gilded meteor]

sm2 was fun, campaign was good

thats about it

[terse idol]

Nice eye candy

Sm2 was just sm1 sequal

[pastel yew]

same reason helldivers got pushed

[terse idol]

With a new coat of paint

[pastel yew]

I will

[terse idol]

Helldivers has like

[pastel yew]

hold my tongue

[terse idol]

At least new gameplay loop

[pastel yew]

I'm glad you enjoyed the sm2 campaign

[terse idol]

Sm2 was literally sm1

[pastel yew]

I would like my like 70 dollars back though

also yeah

[terse idol]

There's alot going here

[pastel yew]

the only mission I actually enjoyed in sm2 was the final one

[cobalt crest]

I agree with what bricky said sm2 is a 7/10 but because 40k ATM is deprived of good PC games it gets very much overrated

[gilded meteor]

helldivers was popularized because of creek and difficulty mixed WITH the eye candy

[tawdry jackal]

Except they made the guns feel weak

[terse idol]

But if you bought sm2 you either liked 40k or wanted a sequal to 1 and that's fine

[cobalt crest]

The balancing is awful in that game

[terse idol]

They're constantly rebalancing

[tawdry jackal]

I would rather play 1 and have a bolter that feels right

[terse idol]

Its okay

[pastel yew]

people were hyping it out of the gate

[terse idol]

They're balancing stuff man okaayy

[pastel yew]

before getting access to that shit

[gilded meteor]

i liked everything, final one was defo best tho, especially holding the line with the flag

[pastel yew]

the longer people had hands on the game

the less people played it

[terse idol]

Well

[tawdry jackal]

Ok cool call me when a bolter blows apart a hormagaunt like it should

[terse idol]

Naturally

It has like

1 gameplay loop

[terse idol]

Uh

[tawdry jackal]

I don’t give a shit about the PVP if the PVE doesn’t let me feel like an actual space marine

[terse idol]

Play on easier difficultys

[gilded meteor]

“my leg is gone, brothers!”

[terse idol]

I'm sorry

[pastel yew]

sm2 could have been so cool

[terse idol]

Like play the easiest difficulty

[pastel yew]

if they just

[terse idol]

And a bolter will blow apart gaunt

[pastel yew]

developed the systems a little bit more

[cobalt crest]

To be fair though having to replay the same strike 6 missions over and over again and all of them having the same rewards

[pastel yew]

like its so close

[cobalt crest]

Was not great

[tawdry jackal]

It’s also…it just doesn’t sound right or explode right or idk

[terse idol]

Its sm2's sequal it didn't had to be more

[gilded meteor]

easy difficulty is canon space marine

[tall sleet]

does charge rate still affect plasma gun damage?

[tawdry jackal]

It’s missing the magic bro

[cobalt crest]

Sm1 unironically had a more in depth system than sm2

[pastel yew]

there are moments where you get into that flow of all the mechanics working well and it feels great.. and then you get back to the average sm2 experience

[terse idol]

Blame sound department that's harder to fix

[cobalt crest]

Like they did not need to change a thing

[pastel yew]

never played the first so cant comment but

the second really didnt feel modern

it felt dated

[tawdry jackal]

Like I was really looking forward to sm2 and I’m just gonna wait till they figure out the secret sauce later

[terse idol]

I don't think they needed to change anything

[tawdry jackal]

For now I got my refund and got rogue trade to hold me over

[pastel yew]

everything except the visuals in that game just felt.. old.. early 2010s design

[terse idol]

It was made as a sequal to sm1

And they succeded

[pastel yew]

I should have refunded

i coped

every campaign mission I thought

[terse idol]

Yess

[pastel yew]

"wow this is pretty shit"

but people kept praising it

so I thought man there must be something im not getting

something a little further

[terse idol]

Yessss welcome to a direct sequal to an Xbox 360 era game

[pastel yew]

then I had beaten the main campaign and regretted not just refunding

[pastel yew]

but it doesnt evolve or adapt anything

[terse idol]

I think you gotta curb your expectations

[tawdry jackal]

I gave it two hours and then said fuck it

[pastel yew]

even the story is like basically the same

[tawdry jackal]

I can just watch a let’s play

[pastel yew]

true

[terse idol]

Like it's the whole uhh

Getting your hopes up too much

[tawdry jackal]

Nah. If I’m paying 70 dollars I expect something good

[pastel yew]

it looks so polished its just puddle deep

[gilded meteor]

they had different devs

[terse idol]

I didn't make mileage because... I wanted combat depth like darktide

[tawdry jackal]

Like fuck the copium, I’m not shooting up

[pastel yew]

the amount of content for 70 dollars is

[cobalt crest]

Its a lot of small things like melee let you Regen armor so you wouldn't insta die and lunging and light attacks had better tracking and you could perform melee stins

[terse idol]

But it's pretty flat

[pastel yew]

wild too

[cobalt crest]

Also the perk system for pvp I'm smà

Sm1

You had way more options

And the maps weren't these weird

[terse idol]

Somehow like being weak in sm2 is jus

[cobalt crest]

Symmetrical

[terse idol]

Mucho death sentenc

With no way to regain hp

Besides stims

Its an insane decision

[cobalt crest]

Things

[terse idol]

At least in sm1 you could execute to heal abit iirc

[tawdry jackal]

You could kill your way to more health if I remember SM1

[terse idol]

You get low in sm2 you're punished so hard

[tawdry jackal]

Just melee harder

[gilded meteor]

“RISE, SON OF GUILLIMAN”

[pastel yew]

the gun execute to get you hp is also just int most of the time

a lot of the time you get punished for doing it

[terse idol]

Oh yeay

[cobalt crest]

They removed so much from the core gameplay in sm1 for sm2

[pastel yew]

which is wild

[terse idol]

The gun execute is cringe

Bexause it's just bette

Faster

Than norma

[cobalt crest]

Yeah the fact that you still take damage during executes too

Was weird as hell

[pastel yew]

you get punished for doing it like

[gilded meteor]

no?

you dont

[pastel yew]

the gun kills you can, you often lose the toughness it gives you

[gilded meteor]

you get dmg immunity for executions and precisions

[pastel yew]

while the animation is playing yes

not immediately after when you get hit

[gilded meteor]

no ive uh

[cobalt crest]

Tactical also being the strongest class cause its beacon had 6x damage as one of its final perks and the melts spam was insane

[gilded meteor]

never experienced that

[pastel yew]

how have you not experienced that its so common

[gilded meteor]

and i played the game on its hardest diff

[pastel yew]

the vast majority of the time you gun execute, you get hit and lose the armor generated

you'd be the only person I've not seen mention this

so either youre not following what we're saying or you're just

incredibly lucky

[terse idol]

They can fix all this thankfully

Just with time

And feedback

[pastel yew]

nah I dunno

[gilded meteor]

sm2 right?

[pastel yew]

they can take away the pain points but the combat is just sorta flawed and simplistic

[pastel yew]

mhm

even very skilled very talented players

[terse idol]

They might have changed how executions worked?

[pastel yew]

literally everyone

true

I played around launch

[gilded meteor]

yeah no, i never took dmg during anim

[pastel yew]

and engaged with the discussion at that time

so maybe its been changed since

but at least at that point it was a well known issue

[terse idol]

There's just alot

[pastel yew]

the drip in that game is killer though

[terse idol]

Ah me complaining about my own issues at launch

[hearty panther]

SM2 briefly looked real fucken cool with the coherency thing they had going on

but then they got rid of it immediately

[cobalt crest]

Tbh I didn't even consider boltor damage to be that bad I just hated how inaccurate they were

[terse idol]

If you were aggressive and successful it felt good, if you got hit to 1 hp it felt terrible and playing defensively just made you die to chip damage

One of the worst

[pastel yew]

yeah that really sucked

[terse idol]

Combat cycles

[pastel yew]

honestly though if it was better designed this could be really cool

[gilded meteor]

ending twist was fun

[cobalt crest]

Like I genuinely feel like if they didn't make the spread randomized and made it predictable so you could actually land all your shots

[pastel yew]

doom eternal is everything space marine 2 is not

[cobalt crest]

People wouldn't complain that mucb

[pastel yew]

I know they've very different genres but the general design philosophy is similar

[terse idol]

Its just completely different ill push back to that though

Hmm

Again all they needed to do was keep some principles from sm1

[cobalt crest]

Is it similar though? I don't think sm2 adopted that

[terse idol]

They made new mechanics but forgot some from sm1

[cobalt crest]

Chess board philosophy

I don't think any game has

[pastel yew]

aggression based recovery, focussing around executions and such/

just doom is movement based

and sm2 is

extreme CLUNK

[cobalt crest]

Idk but Hugo's main thing was that he wanted everything to be counter able

By the player and by the enemies

[pastel yew]

the executions in sm2 were cool but kinda sad at the lack of variety

[gilded meteor]

tbf you are a 10,000 pound piece of metal

[pastel yew]

aint they supposed to be

agile/

[cobalt crest]

Like sm2 very much doesn't do that at all

Imo

[pastel yew]

isnt that the point of the black carapace

makes the suit basically like their skin or whatever

[gilded meteor]

10,000 pound piece of metal that can r o l l

[pastel yew]

for regular space marines at least

I think they're meant to be pretty zippy

[cobalt crest]

Yeah shock troopers

[pastel yew]

sm2 just had too little content at launch I think

very few special enemies

very few maps

[gilded meteor]

agreed.

[pastel yew]

for a AAA price game

idk

[gilded meteor]

bio titan was released far too late

[pastel yew]

sadge

I always employ the rimworld scale...

is this game worth 3x rimworlds?

ehhhhhhh

[cobalt crest]

Rimworlds expensive though 😭

[pastel yew]

rimworld base game is cheap

the dlcs are steep though

very much worth the price

[cobalt crest]

I wanna buy dwarf fortress

[pastel yew]

mmh I wanna get into it but

just never had the time

same with CDDA

those games seem so cool but

[cobalt crest]

You can play it for free

Cause it was originally a browser game

It's just really really ugly

[pastel yew]

its not a cost thing as much as a time spent thing

[cobalt crest]

Yeah that's fair

[pastel yew]

I'd have to spend a lot of time getting to grips and learning the systems and just not quite had the mental energy for it yet

[cobalt crest]

I've been trying to actually fulfill my backlog

Playing blasphemous atm

[pastel yew]

is it good/

the concept seemed real cool

[cobalt crest]

If you like metroidvanias yeah

[pastel yew]

I have ... one or two.. half completed..

I like that they're souls like ish

[cobalt crest]

But like I gotta be honest if I'm recommending metroidvanias

[pastel yew]

but yeah the 2d controls can be a bit hit or miss for me

[cobalt crest]

#1 has to be hollow knight

[pastel yew]

mhm

I've played some hollow night

knight

[cobalt crest]

They all feel the same imo

[pastel yew]

good game

hollow knight silk song

always 2 years away

[cobalt crest]

They confirmed 2025 will be releas

But also blasphemous doesn't really punish you for dying

And hollow knight overall is harder

So if you want to be challenged I wouldn't recommend it I think

Story and art design is incredible though

[terse idol]

It would been alright if you just healed some health from executions 😭

Me as I complain about the one thing I hat

[broken spade]

wow ive heard of that game

[terse idol]

Like that's the difference

My epiphany

In doom eternal being low isn't a death sentence

You just poke and then execute for hp

Wtf sm2!!

It's failed

The aggression based gameplay

[rain badger]

Double barrel shotgun any good?

[terse idol]

When you're low

God damn

[hollow ibex]

niche, but can be good

[pastel yew]

yeah, doom eternal also feels much more rewarding for player skill

that games pretty challenging

requires a lot of good aim, and quick responsiveness

[cobalt crest]

I think I only have the Tara's nabad master level to do on UN

[pastel yew]

this is fluff but, doom nailed the execution system

you have an animation for every limb you aim at

and for your direction relative tho them

to

in spm its just

1-2 animations per enemy

I hope you like ripping the head off of a marine

[cobalt crest]

Doom eternal also runs really well on like a 1050

They optimized the shit out of their engine

[pastel yew]

amazing game

I havent actually done the dlc yet I should

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-eternal-glory-kill-doom-glory-kill-doom-eternal-zombie-gif-18694440

also this

[cobalt crest]

You

[pastel yew]

we've peaked at animations

[cobalt crest]

Might be disappointed

With the dlc

[pastel yew]

oh is it really not that good/

[cobalt crest]

It's

Fiiiine

[pastel yew]

mmh sadness

[cobalt crest]

Dlc 1 you might like cause they ramped up the difficulty by a ton

But dlc 2 is

Not great

The final boss is a cake walk

[pastel yew]

eh thats to be expected

[cobalt crest]

It's fun though

[pastel yew]

honestly most of the bosses across the new games are

quite not good

I enjoyed the final boss I think... but I remember it being more spectacle than substance

doom 2016 bosses were real bad

[cobalt crest]

Yeah

Doom 2016 also was just

So cheesable

The moment you quick swap everything insta dies

[pastel yew]

I cant remember it much honestly most of that game was mid, except the second half

[cobalt crest]

I actually really liked 2016

[pastel yew]

I feel like they tried to bridge the gap between generic shooter and arena shooter

but arena shooter is where the game is best

so the first half feels pretty weak

[cobalt crest]

Anyways so for doom eternal they kind of did the halo route

[pastel yew]

think they learned that though as doom eternal is arena shooter right out of the gate

[cobalt crest]

Where people said halo CE was too easy

So they made halo 2 really annoying

And then people complained it was too hard

So they made halo 3 piss easy

[pastel yew]

cant make everyone happy

though I will say

a lot of people that complain "too hard"

could just turn the difficulty down

[cobalt crest]

That's true

[pastel yew]

I feel people ego check themselves way too hard for games

you see it in darktide all the time when something adjusts enemies and people are like "this is way too hard"

even though they could just turn it down

idk

I dont get the mentality

[cobalt crest]

The thing is it's not like they increased enemy stats to create artificial difficulty

They just made the enemy combos more severe

[pastel yew]

ehhehhehhh thats

[cobalt crest]

Added more super heavies into one fight

[pastel yew]

I mean it could go either way

[cobalt crest]

Which is like

Fine

[pastel yew]

I remember doom eternal added that shield guy? and I really did not like him at all

[cobalt crest]

That's better than artificially inflating stats in every way

[pastel yew]

some stat inflation can be good though

I tend not to mind damage inflation

but health inflation sucks

[cobalt crest]

That's fair

I kind of agree with that

[pastel yew]

it always feels like you can play around enemy damage by dodging that bit better but, magdumping enemies is not fun

[cobalt crest]

But I mean that's what makes master levels so good cause they don't have to follow the pacing of a regular game

[pastel yew]

stalker 2 really has that problem currently

unsure if you're familiar with the series but

[cobalt crest]

You can fight 5 tyrants in the first segment

[pastel yew]

chimeras in that game are fucked up

[cobalt crest]

I wanna play stalker 2 but I don't want to bug it

[slow spade]

quickplay into a game -> it has grims -> shenanigans ensue

[cobalt crest]

Bhh it

Buy it

[pastel yew]

extremely valid

[pastel yew]

rip the grims

[slow spade]

stalker 2 is fine if you get the mod that reduces mutant hp

[cobalt crest]

I have shadow of Chernobyl but like

It's old

[slow spade]

if you don't, uh lower difficulty lol

[pastel yew]

I hadnt modded the game, they reduced the mutant health but

they didnt touch the chimera?

[slow spade]

they didn't

they lowered Bloodsucker armor

[pastel yew]

they made bloodsuckers n stuff easier to kill

honestly blood suckers are at a really good balance point

all the other mutants still suck though

[slow spade]

fun fact, the mod reduces bloodsucker hp by 60% and it takes 3 pointblank shotgun shells to kill

[pastel yew]

you could try anomaly

its .. old yes but I've heard good things

i do think the stalker games hold up reasonably well

[cobalt crest]

Speaking of stalker is the movie legitimately good or is it just pretentious slop

[pastel yew]

but that might just because tyhey're unique

its almost definitely pretentious slop

but if you read a review it might be okay

I also dont think they're like.. fully the same universeor?

[slow spade]

stalker 2 experience

[pastel yew]

I think they're both loosely based on a book

[cobalt crest]

They're both adaptations of a book yeah

[pastel yew]

stalker 2 lugging literally everything and the kitchen sink back to the trader

to repair your gera

[cobalt crest]

But they have key elements like the wishing

[gilded meteor]

my only stalker 2 issue is you cant join factions

[cobalt crest]

Fountain?

[pastel yew]

and have enough to buy a sausage

[cobalt crest]

Well?

[gilded meteor]

so i refuse to buy

[cobalt crest]

Gate?

The thing that grants wishes idk

[pastel yew]

mhm

[gilded meteor]

i want to join duty, but duty no join

[slow spade]

considering the only faction I would join is Mercs, I'm still living the life c:

[gilded meteor]

duty on top

[pastel yew]

the only reason I joined duty in the older games anyway was for that sweet exo suit..

that was literallyit

[gilded meteor]

freedom has them too but

duty is cool

[pastel yew]

I think the duty one was better

[slow spade]

i mean as long as they're paying sure

[gilded meteor]

they treat you good

[gilded meteor]

yeah it is

[pastel yew]

stalker 2 is a bit of a walking sim though god damn

[gilded meteor]

freedom exos are just salvaged duty exos imo

[pastel yew]

like its really pretty

[slow spade]

buy ALL the water you see

[pastel yew]

and you're sometimes rewarded for that adventure

[gilded meteor]

well so is every stalker

[slow spade]

you can run for days then

[pastel yew]

I got that endurance artifact I'm gaming

[slow spade]

I carry like 15 water battles

[gilded meteor]

end is required

[pastel yew]

way smaller map though

also anomaly fields felt more present

[gilded meteor]

i battery and double shock

[pastel yew]

honestly getting artifacts in stalker is

[orchid hemlock]

Irl stalkers be like

[pastel yew]

kinda a pain in the ass

I've been marking all the zones to find them when I stumble on em but

they're really far apart

[slow spade]

get a Bear detector

oh

[pastel yew]

and they dont guarantee spawns

[slow spade]

I love Thunderberry for that reason

[pastel yew]

I remember old stalker doing my rounds after emission but now I just do not want to unless its sorta on the way

[slow spade]

may I suggest more water bottles to run faster?

[pastel yew]

think I have this effect but under a different name

one of my first anomalies was like

the stone?

[slow spade]

Thunderberry is the highest quality version

[pastel yew]

with max physical protection or something

its wid

[slow spade]

so try to find that one

[pastel yew]

wild

I feel most enemies even without it do like 0 damage though

[gilded meteor]

thats just because they used level load triggers every 5 feet

[slow spade]

ah yes Compass

[pastel yew]

they went for a really strange balance decision of enemies doing no damage

but being

pinpoint accurate

[slow spade]

its because that way they inflict maximum damage

[pastel yew]

you peak a hairs width around anything and you bet you're getting hit by buckshot from someone in spain

[slow spade]

you don't die (aka load back) but your armor is destroyed

thus the player is hurt the most UwU

[pastel yew]

lmao

it just feels silly to be on max difficulty and

shrugging off shots from 3 different enemies at once

especially given I'm just in a 1 armor fuckin

sci explorer suit

[slow spade]

what main quest are you in?

[pastel yew]

I just got to stc malachite

[slow spade]

enemy difficulty is based on your main story progression

so you might just be on the "early" quests

[pastel yew]

I'd hope im not on early quests as I'm like 20 hours in

I've been almost everywhere

[gilded meteor]

stalker shadows also has a half life reference tho

which is neat

[slow spade]

honestly it sounds like you're on the early stages

[pastel yew]

I just fought ||faust|| for the first time, with his shadow clone jutsu

[slow spade]

this is the shit you would see on the later stages

[pastel yew]

I ahve all of these weapons

though I havent used most except the shotguns

[gilded meteor]

wtf bro, put some of those in storage

[pastel yew]

I'm running with the revolver right now

[slow spade]

enemies just drop them

its basically a common drop

[pastel yew]

20 enemies worth of loot

most guns red quality

get fucked bozo ;-;

[slow spade]

someone checked

all weapons drop from 25% to 50% condition

so be luckier I guess

[pastel yew]

truly

[rain badger]

Thinking of doing a right tree build with weapon swapping abilities

[slow spade]

oh yeah try to get a shotgun with this upgrade

it turns your shotgun into a fucking sniper lol

"what if the shotgun just had no weakness"

[pastel yew]

honestly the shotgun is

so fucking good

I've actually dropped it

to use other weapons

as it was most of what I was using

[slow spade]

buckshot for humans, slugs for mutants weirdly enough

[pastel yew]

yeah the slugs are

not that great I wont lie

[hollow ibex]

yeah that's what i'm running

[slow spade]

na slugs are the best

they give armor piercing

[rain badger]

2024
im blessed seeing others enjoying one of my favorite franchises

[slow spade]

and mutants have like lvl 3-4 armor lol

[pastel yew]

I was hitting a ||monolith|| guy in the head with slugs and it was taking 2-3, buckshot was a single shot?

like what

[gilded meteor]

LMFAO

[slow spade]

Stalker 2 is such a huge upgrade over Anomaly and stuff SOLELY because I can look at the artifacts in my hands

[gilded meteor]

“this bad boy can breach a door from 300 yards away”

[pastel yew]

kinda fuckin bait given the game tells you another ammo type to use for mutants which isnt good into armor

[pastel yew]

some of them have really funky animations

[slow spade]

hence why I said "buckshot for humans"

and "slugs for mutants"

[pastel yew]

why is my man shrugging off

slugs

to the head

but not buckshot

make it make sense

[slow spade]

because GSC is shit at gun balance

[pastel yew]

better question

why is a single 5.45 armor piercing round one tapping, but a point blank slug doing nothing ;-;

[rain badger]

I have been running a pseudo commissar bolt pistol weapon swap build for a while now. It’s fun and effective, but it can’t really carry the recent influx of noobies

[pastel yew]

this games wild

[gilded meteor]

slug is one big piece of metal. buckshot is 3-4 slightly smaller pieces of metal

[pastel yew]

yeah I

know what a slug is

[gilded meteor]

yes so

its more dmg

[slow spade]

also the revolver is cracked

[pastel yew]

but.. they're armored... slugs are armor piercing ;-;

[slow spade]

like "haha stats high" but this is like ridiculously good

[pastel yew]

not had a chance to fucking shoot anyone with it yet

[hollow ibex]

excuse me. off-topic is #zealot-class

[pastel yew]

only the guy in the arena

[gilded meteor]

you think shotguns care about armor?

[slow spade]

humans get 1-tapped

[pastel yew]

they should ;-;

[pastel yew]

with ap ammo or

[gilded meteor]

also yeah, arenas in stalker games are peak

[pastel yew]

regular

[pastel yew]

except the chimera fight...

[slow spade]

regular

[gilded meteor]

arena is so much fun in shadows of chernobyl

[pastel yew]

magdumping into its head

neat, I packed armor piercing ammo as I wasnt sure

but

I guess it just means I can fight mutants

[gilded meteor]

same shit in shadows with the spetsnaz

[slow spade]

upgraded revolver 1-tapped a bloodsucker in the head for me

[pastel yew]

YOO

[rain badger]

comparing mods to games
Have yet to play S2 as I got hooked back into Darktide cause I started a psyker.

[pastel yew]

okay thats

[slow spade]

good luck getting a headshot though lmao

[pastel yew]

kinda hype

I one shot with a 308

the mark 1 emr

or whatever its called

[slow spade]

I mean its not like the OG games added the ability to look at the artifacts

[gilded meteor]

dump an entire mag of 762 into a spetsnaz’s back, hes okay and he 1 taps you

shoot 2-3 rounds in his head, instant death, painful

[pastel yew]

launch unnerfed bloodsuckers have to be one of the worst enemies I've fought in a game though I wont lie

[slow spade]

yeah the M701 is op

its basically a budget gauss rifle

[pastel yew]

I've got one in my box but not used it yet

[strange oxide]

whats the dump stat on the xii recon lasgun?

[pastel yew]

the issue is my rifle already is one tapping all the human enemies

[slow spade]

lvl 4 armor, over 400 hp, and 2-hit kills? very balanced

[pastel yew]

and I had the shotgun deleting mutants

[slow spade]

Collateral

[rain badger]

Haha fair, they nailed the atmosphere really well thankfully AND no loading screens

[strange oxide]

thanks

[slow spade]

Collateral is just stagger which Recon doesn't do anyways

[pastel yew]

forgetting their mad speed, crouched animation which makes headshots inconsistent, and the fact they're invisble making it even worse

hit and run tactics

fortunately you can just heal through it because

[slow spade]

indeed :c

[pastel yew]

apparently ukraine is the number 1 producer of cheese kits

literally everyone had 30 pre accident

[slow spade]

agreed, I just hope they elaborate on the factions and some of the missing regions like Limansk one day

[pastel yew]

maybe in a dlc

[slow spade]

in the mean time, SHINY

[pastel yew]

wouldnt get your hopes massively up though

I'm just hyped for modders to get their hands on the game

I think there's a good base here for something real special

[slow spade]

I play Darktide, the LAST thing I have hope for is interesting content UwU

[pastel yew]

extremely valid lmao

at least the new maps are usually good

except the train one

which everyone except me seemed to love

[slow spade]

agreed, I love the new church map

[pastel yew]

I've not played yet

[slow spade]

the train map itself is cool as fuck

[pastel yew]

its a cool idea

[slow spade]

the teammates you play with? dogshit

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean thats the main issue

also the minigame sucks

10 minute mission

2 30 second each boring minigames

[slow spade]

true, the minigame should have been a "defend this point" objective just so someone isn't bored out of their mind

[pastel yew]

yip

or at least give you a speed bonus

if you can keep it right in the middle

[slow spade]

I get its not "interesting" but man it sucks

[hollow ibex]

it's better now

[pastel yew]

better how?

[hollow ibex]

they shortened it significantly

[pastel yew]

thank god

[hollow ibex]

so you're not spending half the match

doing the fucking minigame

[pastel yew]

yeah that was

a primary complaint for me

[hollow ibex]

they also added a bit more time to the timer

[pastel yew]

as shallow as it might seem

[hollow ibex]

nah that's fair

we came here to kill heretics

not do some weird auspex minigame shit

[pastel yew]

yeah, I mean usually I am the one that gets on the objective so

having to waste 1/10th of a mission staring at this was rough

especially since theres no skill element, and it is just barely enough to require you to pay active attention

[hollow ibex]

yup 🥱

[pastel yew]

the kinda thing jigsaw would have you doing to keep someone alive

[slow spade]

the worst part is there's nothing stopping the game from spawning a tox bomber on you lol

a particularly bad throw and you don't have like a relic zealot/shield psyker to keep you high toughness? Rough times :c

[pastel yew]

of course there is!

your team mate right?

your team will help your ight?

.... r-right?

[slow spade]

stares at my latest game

they just HAD to pick up the grims

[broken spade]

did they atleast win with the grims?

[slow spade]

we got 1 to extract

the other died from funny shotgunners I think

[rain badger]

I’m convinced I will never get Auric Storm Survivor. Randoms have been bad, I’m not saying I’m some god tier carrying machine, but if I’m top of the leaderboards by a lot, we have problems.

[slow spade]

some things never change

[hollow ibex]

bad time to go for ASS lol

[rain badger]

Played with a level 30 vet with a seemingly good setup. He kept dying and running off. I ask him what’s up. “I just got the game, have been playing for 13hrs straight and got level 30.”

[slow spade]

say this at the start of every maelstrom

[rain badger]

Voidstrike psyker with assail and shield makes me wish vet could do as much CC and ranged DPS/Nuking. all without using ammo.

[tawny timber]

gun go pew

[rain badger]

“Plasma gun op!!”
Meanwhile high peril Psyker with voidstrike and double shot critical nukes a whole line of crushers and ragers.

[pastel yew]

just rng and consistency

or cheesing it

if you play the same very strong build into it you'll get it

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-ghost-barrel-explode-fly-gif-10528166394804192796

Me 5 seconds into the mission

[ionic laurel]

It’s bc absolute bots can roll through with a plasma gun bc it’s M1 spam but they can’t manage peril, skill issues go crazy

[tall torrent]

Psyker has been the best class in the game since U&L update by a pretty wide margin

[pastel yew]

nah I feel as an overall package vet still wins out pretty hard

even though offensively some psyker builds are better

CC heavy stuff is sorta hard to rate in my mind because I honestly pretend it does not exist

dont engage with it, dont play with people that use it

[steel wigeon]

dump stat for plasma gun?

[pastel yew]

I mean they're all p good

you definitely dont want to dump on anything damage related though

the rest can be more of a mix

[pastel yew]

at least the voidstrike requires decent aim

[hollow ibex]

well psyker surv was always middling, being the glass cannon class

[pastel yew]

also I mean... it needs to crit

[hollow ibex]

but then they buffed psyker toughness by 25%

[pastel yew]

mhm for sure

I just... wait what

they did?

that's just

the wrong way to address their situation imo

[hollow ibex]

yeah base toughness is at 75 now

[pastel yew]

I think the main issue with psyker tankiness is how reliant it was on warp damage

or crits depending

I guess we'll see how much of a difference that makes

[hollow ibex]

well psyker durability was always more reliant on other factors than base stats

[pastel yew]

their toughness regen is kinda nuts for having high toughness though

you'd assume some of that would get reduced to compensate but

[hollow ibex]

like kinetic deflection, deflector, shield, movement buffs, etc.

[pastel yew]

maybe they've just decided that psykers are too weak

[hollow ibex]

but now it's just easier than ever

[pastel yew]

feels thats the general trend for the game

just round out any edges to anything popular

all weaker things that arent popular get ignored

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t have one

[feral juniper]

Hello ya’ll, currently on havoc 32 and the plasma gun feel kinda weak any suggestions for how should I spec it?

[pastel yew]

from what I've heard? swap weapons

but there are very few people with experience at the high level yet

I've not even started the grind

[tall torrent]

Nah
Psyker’s kit is just absurdly strong
You just don’t see psykers players talk about it too much because “glass cannon = balance”

[steel wigeon]

ok but what do i need the least

what stats would i have on it

[pastel yew]

I mean they're less tanky, their weapons are often less targetted or fast acting etc

they do more damage for sure with certain set ups but

veteran is literally the everything class

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1314090031618719755/Screenshot_2024-12-04_162110.png?ex=675329f6&is=6751d876&hm=1d2f58929c63f775d472d90833744bf2168a3281ae1e395cb76b5b955bf08bdc&

[pastel yew]

they nail melee, they nail tanking, they nail ranged damage

often all in the same build

if we look at class strength by difficulty to clutch with because realistically thats when it matters

its not psyker thats at the top

[ionic laurel]

Psyker is much stronger overall, Vet has 3 broken things, VOC, Nade Regen, and plasma for class specific items

[pastel yew]

they're less self reliant

[pastel yew]

gestures at

most of the vet tree

you are tripping if you think its just that

they have absurd melee damage and buffs

they have crazy finesse, team wide damage buffs that arent shit

almost everything in the vet tree is good

[tall torrent]

Psyker just loses in boss damage

[pastel yew]

they have the widest variety of good weapons because of how good their base tree is

[ionic laurel]

Im a psyker main, its broken as shit. Soulfire and especially smite aren’t balanced. Vet isn’t bad though and it has terrible skill allotment

[tall torrent]

Everything else in their kit is insane

[pastel yew]

they're less reliably self sufficient and way more squishy

[tall torrent]

Class strength goes like
Psyker > veteran ≈ zealot > ogryn

[pastel yew]

also again, most of their weapons are slow

or non targetted

even if they're really strong like the trauma staff

which is a dog weapon

I hate having that in my games

I just think they get the damage and the cc but thats about it

[ionic laurel]

Plasma isn’t as broken as everyone thinks, it’s just braindead because it has a dogshit design and needs a rework

[tall torrent]

Before U&L you could very much argue veteran being the best class in the game

[pastel yew]

vet nails a bit of everything

[pastel yew]

it can be broken and brain dead

[tall torrent]

After U&L it’s psyker by a wide margin

[pastel yew]

u and l?

unlocked and loaded/

[white minnow]

what changed with U&L? (no disagreements here, just curious)

[pastel yew]

gun psyker got buffed

a few broken nodes got added to the the class

gun psyker, one of the strongest builds in the game... got buffed...

[white minnow]

oh right those nodes

[ionic laurel]

It’s broken relative to Double Barrel and less compared to Revolver, barring new diff

[pastel yew]

the darktide balance team works in mysterious ways

[pastel yew]

I disagree with the revolver talk

its literally stronger than the zarona

[ionic laurel]

No it isn’t lmao

[pastel yew]

it has none of the downsides and doesnt rely on weapon specialist

its literally a zarona

which partial reloads 2 shots instead of 1

and has infinite ammo

its only worse into carapace hillariously

its just got some weird quirks to aiming and firing but when accounted for it does not matter

they're both degenerate strong anyway

specifically with weapon spec

zarona is fine outside of that

[tall torrent]

Melee attack speed (easy to reach)
Crack of bone
+cleave scaling from %peril
Warp charges keystone restructure (less point cost overall)
Scrier’s gaze now has peril gate node
Malefic momentum buffed
Easier to access 30% quell speed for most builds (moved upwards)

And Grim Protocol now buffed psyker base toughness by 15 (60 -> 75)

[white minnow]

makes sense

[ionic laurel]

I don’t even think plasma is better than vraks tbh in normal diffs, it is much much worse for shooters and all ranged. It has range but not instant snapping which is much more important. I think it is OP for the drastic low skill floor (nerf tf out of normals, buff charged, make all shots explode at 100%)

[pastel yew]

who cares whats good in normal diffs though

you could mash your face against your keyboard with any weapon and steam roll

if we're looking at auric+ the plasma is the better of the two

[hearty panther]

i dont find psyker is stronger in any new way though: same as before, you're incredibly powerful for a brief flash of time and then you wind down

[white minnow]

base toughness on psyker is one of the more appropriate things they deserved since the overall toughness they can get is mildly lower than the rest for no particular reason
malefic momentum deserves a nerf in value; could be 15% warp damage max and 20% non-warp damage max and/or changes to duration

[pastel yew]

I assume by instant snapping you mean the swap speed/

if not then its just getting used to the charge time

you should click before you reach the target

and when you use the plasma gun you'll pick that up

so the charge timer is a non issue its just a bit of weirdness to adapt to

[ionic laurel]

Plasma isn’t hitscan which is good for hordes and not good for ranged

[tall torrent]

Plasma is hitscan

[pastel yew]

yeah what

[ionic laurel]

No way

[pastel yew]

the crosshair is just dog shit

install a crosshair mod

its pinpoint accurate and instant

[ionic laurel]

Ive only used it like 3 times it was boring

[tall torrent]

The only non-hitscan ranged attacks are throwing knives, staff projectiles, Voidstrike big blue ball, assail shards, rumbler, grenade gauntlet and rocks

[white minnow]

yeah at least on the face of it i don't think psyker changed too much, though I run a right-side build and don't take many of the things that got touched besides malefic, +atk spd, & +cleave

my main gripes so far is the stupid stuff that ignores hitmass on psyker (other classes have this of course, but the hit-mass ignoring stuff is more of psyker's core stuff compared to other classes since that's smite/assail/voidblast/inferno/perilous combustion)

[ionic laurel]

That’s crazy how bad crosshairs is then lmao

[pastel yew]

• voidstrike

[white minnow]

oh and there's the new 2h fsword special as well

[pastel yew]

yeah its god awful

I have no idea why they'd make a marksman type weapon

that requires you to aim using only a crosshair

[white minnow]

psykers kind of just take infinite cleave (or, well, hitmass-ignoring stuff) stuff for granted now, and it's no wonder why when they get so much of it

[pastel yew]

and they make it.. four arrows pointing at nothing... what

from what I'm aware you maybe can change this in base game now?

[ionic laurel]

Well anyway I just hope they rework it instead of nerf hammer, I want the charges to actually be used like SM2

[tall torrent]

Do urself a favour and go into settings -> interface -> change crosshair “rapid fire”

[pastel yew]

but I've always used a mod

honestly they should keep the damage the same

[white minnow]

nerfs are going to be necessary in some way

[pastel yew]

just change the heat generation

make the charge attacks not

god awful

for ammo consumption

right now the plasma gun gets 8 shots

[white minnow]

of course they shouldn't be the only way to balance things, but there's no reason to avoid nerf if it's simpler to touch outliers that perform above the baseline

[ionic laurel]

Yeah idc if it’s nerfed, just make it balanced as a gun

It is literally m1 spam

[pastel yew]

I think the damage and effect is actually totally fine its just the ease of use

and yeah m1 spam

[shadow dagger]

on my way to miss literally fucking every plasma shot on anything past 40m because the focus target skull indicator and the wacko crosshair completely shreds any sense of 'middle of my screen' i had

[pastel yew]

it has too much ammo

it has too little heat generation

[tall torrent]

My idea for plasma changes

hipfire cleave 50 nerf to 5 (can cleave through 1 dreg rager)
hipfire dmg vs carapace & unyielding massively reduced

brace fire cleave 100 nerf to 15 but can cleave through carapace armor (can hit 2 crushers)
brace fire dmg vs carapace & unyielding massively increased

[pastel yew]

reducing its cleave would be such a sad way of going about it

I also dont think it'd make that much of a difference

as the cleave is just

yippe bonus

[tall torrent]

5 cleave is pretty high for a ranged weapon

[ionic laurel]

I mean the cleave is why they solo games tbh

[pastel yew]

yeah but it's not the cleave thats making the gun broken

[white minnow]

very high cleave leads to absurd edge cases where you can delete groups of enemies

and this is a game where enemies are likely to clump up

[pastel yew]

its the fact I Can see a room and dome 8 people in an instant

then partial reload and dome 2 more after scanning for targets

[white minnow]

so that's a reason why you would touch cleave

[pastel yew]

I think its fine to have rare highroll stuff like that though

its fun

[white minnow]

it's easier to balance things when you have a more reasonable cap on the # of enemies that some mechanic can touch

[pastel yew]

its the only fun thing about the plasma

dodging to line up collats

even if it had no cleave

itd still be giga

itd still be worthless to charge

[tall torrent]

That’s fine, give it manstopper blessing and nerf base cleave

[white minnow]

it's fine, but there's also the RMB w/ path's recommended changes that would still have 15 cleave

[tall torrent]

You want funny, you build for funny

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I'd be fine with that if its effectiveness was reduced also

8 shots is too many

compared to the zaronas 5

[hearty panther]

i will say though that with the buffed MM, any build with that that can pull off Perfectionist for DD, is probably the strongest build(s) in the game, whatever they are

[tall torrent]

I don’t want that (it’d make testing for thermal resist breakpoints a nightmare)

[ionic laurel]

Zarona doesn’t reload tho im optimal scenarios so it doesn’t really matter

[pastel yew]

even with ws

you're going to get out shots faster with the plasma since it partial reloads 2 on a reload

[hearty panther]

45% damage + 50% crit damage + 62.5% weakspot damage + 112.5% crit weakspot damage is just ridiculous

[pastel yew]

to do that you need to minimum have double swap times and two swings

[white minnow]

OwO

[ionic laurel]

Ammo Econ is a little better but yeah WS is broken ngl

[pastel yew]

weapon specialists strength isnt in its speed

its in its versatility and the fact you can do it while doing other things

its effecient

but its not fast

WS is literally "we made this for the zarona" the keystone

like

it is what it is though

[hearty panther]

Weapon Specialist is the "we dont know the definition of bloat" keystone

[pastel yew]

weapon specialist is very good though for other weapons

its the case where

I dont want the zarona nerfed as its fine without ws

[hearty panther]

oh i just meant the four useless danglers underneath it

[pastel yew]

and I dont want ws nerfed because its fine without the zarona

oh for sure

[hearty panther]

the thing already provides a novel-sized list of buffs and then they tack on four more below it

[pastel yew]

tbf the .. toughness on swap is... not.. the worst? its just not usually ever worth the point

[tall torrent]

WS can definitely use a nerf

I think 33% crit chance from 1 melee kill is too high

[pastel yew]

sure, as long as it keeps that guaranteed crit at some % I'm fine with it though

as you lose a lot of cool stuff if thats gone

[tall torrent]

Yea at full 10 stacks

[pastel yew]

mmh I'd be fine with that

honestly the crit is

eh I mean its hard to say whats key and whats good there because its all good

the attack speed is nuts

especially given the only other attack speed buff is... right before the keystone

[tall torrent]

I’m also of the opinion that
Only way for veteran to get +ranged attack speed is to take WS (melee side path) is a bit counterintuitive

But what do I know

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/894568981946576916.gif?size=48&name=FloppaShake&quality=lossless

[pastel yew]

I mean its not the melee path as much as the...

combined arms path... that mostly boosts melee

but the idea is you use both

[white minnow]

the idea for the +ranged attack speed stuff on WS seems to be that you're using the "pew pew" guns with it

[pastel yew]

veteran +5% fire rate aura

honestly

we'd finally have an aura thats not complete garbage

[white minnow]

probably the same reason why onslaught is on the right side

[neat stratus]

paired with the recon gun would go crazy

[tall torrent]

I wish there was another attack speed talent in veteran tree because trench fighter drill is such a hard commitment

[pastel yew]

just one solid beam...

[tall torrent]

Meanwhile psyker grabs lightning speed for pretty much free

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean the vet tree is literally a prong

with most good shit right at the bottom of each

[white minnow]

yeah psyker doesn't quite have the branches like other classes except at the very bottom

[pastel yew]

its so unsatisfying to always feel 1-2 points short of everything you want

yeah the psyker tree is very fluid and cool

the vet tree is pick your flavour

[tall torrent]

Vet insane buff would be swapping trench fighter drill’s spot with CQKZ
And swapping +25% ammo’s spot with superiority complex

[pastel yew]

and spend mad points going between

[tall torrent]

Holy shit that would go so hard

I really don’t like bottom left’s pathing either

Take +25% ammo
Then shock trooper to double down on ammo is a bit ??? to me

[neat stratus]

left right or middle, which do you choose?

[tawdry jackal]

need some help getting my zealot to 30, anyone down?

[neat stratus]

As a Psyker I can literally make whatever I want pretty much

[pastel yew]

superiority complex and marksman are good nodes

theres also a stam recovery if you dont branch down on the right

kinda sad they're both right at the bottom of trees but hey ho

I guess they want vet stam to be weaker

[tall torrent]

Yea
If superiority complex was swapped with fully loaded
You could take a really insane pathing of precision strikes + superiority complex + marksman for big damage

God that would go so hard

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I'd be fine with that too

I would still take fully loaded usually anyway as

love me bullets

but its a dead node in most builds

[hearty panther]

i wish i could not take +25% ammo

[pastel yew]

locking out some really nice shit

[hearty panther]

i dont want it!

nobody else has it and im still fine!

[tall torrent]

Exactly

[pastel yew]

a lot of the vet tree is a mess

[tall torrent]

Like, if u were going to take shock trooper, you prob don’t need fully loaded 90% the time

[pastel yew]

the whole left side except frags is kinda mid

[tall torrent]

Why the need to spend 1 extra point to double down on ammo

It’s so dumb

[leaden skiff]

Used to be so much worse. The lack of crossover was terribad

[pastel yew]

left side down to es

that is

[pastel yew]

yeah I was there ...

no keystones

shit pathing

I loved when they reworked the tree and

just made it worse/

like way worse

[ionic laurel]

Could be worse, could be ogryn tree 💀

[tall torrent]

Patch13 veteran with marksman + Vraks mk3 headhunter autogun was making the very chaos gods tremble

Iykyk

[pastel yew]

ogryn tree has some infuriating splits

they really force you down

gun

or

heavy attack

[tall torrent]

Ogryn is very unbalanced in general

[pastel yew]

their weapon pool especially

[tall torrent]

Because it’s “supposed” to be a class with strong talents with bad weapons

[pastel yew]

I dont feel very qualified to talk here

[tall torrent]

Then they got folding shovels

[pastel yew]

but there seems to be a lot of dead weapons

[tall torrent]

Then they got pickaxes

Then they got heavy stubbers

So now it’s kind of

[pastel yew]

I mean who wants to use shit weapons though?

[tall torrent]

Weird

Because the best ogryn weapons

drastically outclass their older weapons

[pastel yew]

oh yeah

night and day

outside of the uh

kickback

[leaden skiff]

I'm just hoping we're not relegated to autogun and recon las for Havoc

[pastel yew]

and the shield

[tall torrent]

I think ogryn is just Karsolas/shield + kickback/gauntlet/precision stubber outside of Gunlugger

[pastel yew]

laspistol

I imagine the headhunter

err

VIGILANT

autoguns are aight

I wouldnt really class them in the same group as the auto auto guns though

[tall torrent]

Oh too bad you’ll be playing mainly las weapons

Laspistol / infantry lasgun / Helbore meta

Shooters so fucked up smokes are meta

[pastel yew]

too early to doom but yeah its not looking ideal

[leaden skiff]

Laspistole?

[tall torrent]

Nah I like it in a way

[leaden skiff]

I do like las pistol

[pastel yew]

everyone likes the laspistol

goated weapon

[tall torrent]

Because if u told someone “lasguns are like turbo meta in Darktide” before havoc came out they’d be like are you a slaaneshi cultist hooked on crack

[pastel yew]

honestly I dont mind it

I like the las weapons though

[leaden skiff]

Boltgun is my first and only love, but I'll stray with a las pistol

[pastel yew]

at least its a separate game mode

[pastel yew]

bolt pistol fine too apparently

[tall torrent]

But las weapons’ value is pretty crazy in havoc

[pastel yew]

I mean it plays right into their strengths

if they adjust the shooter modifier things will probably level out

[tall torrent]

In a game mode where 1 tap breakpoints are out of the window
Turns out the fast & accurate weapons that don’t use much ammo are the best picks

[pastel yew]

since that seems to be the primary issue maker

[tall torrent]

Laspistol & infantry lasgun take less set-up
Helbore takes more set-up

[hearty panther]

ngl tho

that one we did at

27?

so 37% DR

[tall torrent]

Ya

[hearty panther]

made my laspee feels like

lasPEE

[pastel yew]

las pee you say...

[hearty panther]

it was PISSSS

[tall torrent]

Did u see me put 27 shots into that reaper after we came out of the gauntlet run

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[hearty panther]

i did lmao

theyre unstoppable

[pastel yew]

god I hope optimal set up isnt just.. dot city

[hearty panther]

dots are way too slow to do it by themselves

[tall torrent]

Hardened reaper is basically death guard terminator

[hearty panther]

youd have to be building the team for that

dont forget everything still has boosted health too

[tall torrent]

Honestly

If u get pus-hardened as modifier

Trust me just run smokes

[hearty panther]

so good

[tall torrent]

A single shotgunner patrol will make you rethink about life choices otherwise