veteran-class

[steep grail]

it is so good

[pastel yew]

since they upped the duration

so you dont just lose your stacks instantly

[fiery raft]

breakpoint?

[terse idol]

Blasting the build

When you haven't used it

Onslaught is literally valid for recon

Ffs

[steep grail]

post the build

[pastel yew]

good team support tbf

[steep grail]

I will run it

[tall torrent]

#damage needed to kill specific enemies in as few hits as possible

[fiery raft]

oh i see

i mean i mainly run it for the zealots out there

[tall torrent]

The zealots out there aren’t good enough to care

[fiery raft]

what would i even switch it with?

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/894568981946576916.gif?size=48&name=FloppaShake&quality=lossless

[tall torrent]

Weapon specialist

[umbral scaffold]

What blessings do you recommend on the dueling sword btw.?

[steep grail]

thrust riposte

[fiery raft]

\

but this tree is so good

[quiet valley]

Reposte, Precog if you are good, Thrush Agile is you are bad

[tall torrent]

U can drop left side ammo & superiority complex

[pastel yew]

does thrust open up crusher onetaps immediately?

[steep grail]

no

[umbral scaffold]

What's finesse damage?

[steep grail]

it ALMOST does

[stuck gorge]

headshot/crit dmg

[steep grail]

thrust is very very good on the DS

[pastel yew]

silly ;-; so just any other damage boost n you're cookin

[steep grail]

yeah

like focus target

:3

[pastel yew]

man to get one taps with the chain axe you need

thrust

and empower

and even then its barely there

[umbral scaffold]

2s seems like a small window for an attack, but also +50% damage is really good

[steep grail]

it's kind of annoying because focus target benefits the dueling sword a lot

[pastel yew]

I genuinely dont understand how weapons are balanced in this game

[fiery raft]

wait so

[steep grail]

but weapon specialist also benefits it a lot

[umbral scaffold]

Since you can't charge an attack in the 2s right?

So you gotta do the light poke?

[fiery raft]

drop ammo, superiority, and left side of the middle tree?

[quiet valley]

Chaxe thrust is throwing imo

[pastel yew]

attack speed is meant to apply to heavy attacks right?

but like.. it seems to not affect the charge time

so is it literally just the swinging portion

[tall torrent]

Default veteran talent tree if you’re not using a breakpoint weapon

[broken spade]

Does weapon specialist do okay on high havoc or are enemies too beefy to reliably trigger it?

[steep grail]

dueling sword, plasma gun and weapon specialist is the most "fall asleep at your keyboard" vet build in the game

[fiery raft]

ah i see

[tall torrent]

It’s fine

[fiery raft]

ill give it a shot, ty

[pastel yew]

interesting that agile engagement is on there

good talent just

sorta strange that its in the "base" vet kit

why would you run weapon spec plasmagun though

[gilded wraith]

@quiet valley Would Infernus/Ghost be viable while learning Havoc on the Mark X Laspistol, or is Dum Dum vital for dps?

[quiet valley]

Havoc 40, I found focus target best value

[pastel yew]

just to charge the melee portion?

[steep grail]

reload talent

[tall torrent]

If you’re not taking survivalist (which u don’t rly need outside of C-I-VI and havoc)
No reason to not have agile engagement

[pastel yew]

but you never have to reload the plasma gun?

[broken spade]

actually how does rashad do on havoc? Does BM get screwed over by hp increases or nah?

[pastel yew]

that's what heats for

[tall torrent]

Rashad is meta

[steep grail]

go an entire mission not reloading the plasgun

[pastel yew]

heat is basically the plasmas actual reload

[tall torrent]

Just learn reload cancel lol

[pastel yew]

yeah but just reload in a moment of down time

[steep grail]

I know it?

[pastel yew]

you wont be running out of ammo before the encounter ends

[quiet valley]

If you are vet your toughness replenishment from elite /special kills will be enough

[steep grail]

weapon specialist plasgun dueling sword is mostly for the dueling sword

[tall torrent]

Yea then the swap reload is not needed

[pastel yew]

though maybe you will with weapon spec as I imagine you miss some breakpoints

mmh

[quiet valley]

And MK X shoots pretty slow so ghost is not worth imo

[pastel yew]

I feel like taking the shotty would be good

gives you some horde clear

funny to blow up ragers

[tall torrent]

Infernus + ghost is for mk2 in hardened modifier

[gilded wraith]

Gotcha, does it have any cleave?

[pastel yew]

ohhh yooo

ghost must be

real sick now

[quiet valley]

No cleave

[fiery raft]

how good are the weapons pec modifiers?

they dont seem too good

depending on what you use ofc

[pastel yew]

ghost laspistol is so fun

[tall torrent]

If u play revolver/shotgun take always prepared
Otherwise they’re generally not needed

[fiery raft]

i see is ee

[tall torrent]

1.5 (low)

[fiery raft]

ight

[gilded wraith]

Thank you!

[pastel yew]

I wish the other weapon spec options did like

literally anything

[quiet valley]

Sometime you gotta jump for those specials in horde lol, but it’s 0 ammo pickups for havoc 40, like 500k elite dmg

[fiery raft]

thank you

[quiet valley]

^ havoc 40 laspistol x

[pastel yew]

look at that history

[fiery raft]

just to clear up, im assuming a good example of a breakpoint is plasma or bolter?

[pastel yew]

all greeeen baby

[pastel yew]

yeah the plasma is like

[tall torrent]

Plasma is the breakpoint gun

[pastel yew]

leagues better if you hit the proper breakpoints

[quiet valley]

Being a vet ammo fountain in havoc is super good, feed Zealot flamer/bolter spam for horde rush

[pastel yew]

maybe even like twice as good

no lie

[fiery raft]

i see

what are breakpoints?

like weak points?l

[gilded wraith]

Very interesting! Don't think I'm at the skill level to pull off 3X +3 stamina yet, but unlimited pew is awesome!

[fiery raft]

like beast of nurgle back?

[pastel yew]

breakpoints are like... the number of hits you need to kill a target

[tall torrent]

.

[pastel yew]

you want them as small as humanly possible

[fiery raft]

oh i see

[pseudo fiber]

This havoc is exhausting jesus hahah

[fiery raft]

so how would one hit the proper ones on plasgun

[pastel yew]

depends on your skill tree layout

[quiet valley]

Its like getting 10% more dmg so that you 2 shot an enemy instead of 3

[pastel yew]

I think there are a few ways to get it

focus target is the best

marksmans focus gets you most of the way there but is worse into ragers, doesnt require ping though

[fiery raft]

yeah, i get yall

exact # of shots

[pastel yew]

I'd have to check my plasmagun to see what I have on it but I think you want +elites

[quiet valley]

Focus target is my favorite keystone to fix every weapons breakpoints in the game

[pastel yew]

blessings are a little more open

[fiery raft]

alright

[cyan verge]

do you have any like finalized havoc build stuff put together, I have just been kinda bringing my plasma build and hoping for the best atm

[pastel yew]

ES in the corner crying

ES is the ultimate make a trash weapon not trash

[fiery raft]

thanks for answering my questions, im trying to take this game more seriously cuz ever since the september update ive been really into it

[tall torrent]

Vet’s build is role dependent

[fiery raft]

beforehand i just played casually

[tall torrent]

There’re like 2 roles
Anti-elite
Anti-ranged

[quiet valley]

Erm

[tall torrent]

They don’t build the same

[fiery raft]

and im pretty sure veteran would be good to learn on

[cyan verge]

fair

[pastel yew]

theres a lot to learn but its not all that complex honestly

[fiery raft]

for me atleast

[quiet valley]

Just do both with Las pistol X

[pastel yew]

vet is the best class so yea

[fiery raft]

thats good to hear

[pastel yew]

they also have the widest variety of good weapons

vet as a base class is super strong

[tall torrent]

Nah psyker is the best class in Havoc

[fiery raft]

i just want a build i can take examples from

[tall torrent]

I wish it wasn’t

[pastel yew]

why do I feel the optimal psyker combo is gonna be some

really boring auto aim shit

[quiet valley]

Zealot still most broken class in the game, so may safety nets so you can make mistakes

[tall torrent]

Psyker’s kit is so busted for havoc

[pastel yew]

bubble shield, trauma staff

snoozefest

[cyan verge]

'snoozefest'

[pastel yew]

I'm biased as

honestly I find most psyker stuff boring

I dont like weapons that require no skill to aim

[fiery raft]

i think psyker can be cool

[pastel yew]

I like the void strike

I like

gunker

[fiery raft]

it depends on what it is though

[pastel yew]

and thats about it

[fiery raft]

like the flying crystal shit

i dont really like

[cyan verge]

assail seems pretty bad to me

[fiery raft]

smite is cool for 0.1 seconds

[pastel yew]

assail is

definitely not bad

[fiery raft]

because palpatine

[pastel yew]

its pretty good

[fiery raft]

but then it gets upsetting

[cyan verge]

assail doesn't kill carapace

[pastel yew]

it has really good stagger, it sorta makes up for horde clear weakness

[cyan verge]

which is a big problem imo

[pastel yew]

yeah but you have other things for that

dueling sword, void strike

smite is definitely the strongest, the other two are just evenly matched

[cyan verge]

that's true, it's just kind of like, annoying that it's not 'the destroyer'

[pastel yew]

they're literally the krak frag equivalent

[tall torrent]

It’s strong

[pastel yew]

rupture is my favourite though

[quiet valley]

Smite is the strongest thing to use in havoc, at the cost of every match being a snooze fest

[pastel yew]

with all the speed ups you get the machine gun is so goofy

[fiery raft]

how good is the doomslayer build ive heard about?

[cyan verge]

is smite that good in havoc? I haven't seen anyone using it yet

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean as it always has been

[fiery raft]

i really like the double barrel and wanna make it viable

so i'd like an excuse to use it

[cyan verge]

'doomslayer build'

[pastel yew]

double barrel is just take weapon specialist

I've been using it

its fun

[tall torrent]

Watch some havoc40 games and you’ll understand

[pastel yew]

its great for activating weapon specialist quickly

[cyan verge]

the couple I saw didn't have smite surprisingly

[pastel yew]

it also combines well with the guaranteed crit with things like manstopper

[fiery raft]

is there any need for specific melee?

[quiet valley]

Havoc 40 will be piss easy until they add monsterous special spawn

[cyan verge]

I just assumed there'd be some enemy... counterplay, right

[fiery raft]

or just whatever you please

[pastel yew]

uhh not really just whatever you like

[cyan verge]

like one of the new mods would stop smite just locking everything down

[pastel yew]

weapons with slow attack speed gain the most though I think

[cyan verge]

but if it doesn't then hey I guess I am okay with that

[fiery raft]

sweet

ill give it a shot eventually

[pastel yew]

mhm you should, very fun

[quiet valley]

There are only 2 things you can infinite stagger/cc in havoc 40s

Monsters and captains

[tall torrent]

Yea, Voidblast instead lol

[quiet valley]

And they are set spawns

So no bosses during event, just walk to boss trigger, kite back kill and repeat

[cyan verge]

assail + electrokinetic maybe would be good

[pastel yew]

I still need to try the new map out

not seen it yet

[quiet valley]

IIIVEGs mechanically harder than Havoc 40 imo

[cyan verge]

since you can cover carapace with electrokinetic as well as kill everything else with assail I suppose

no I think havoc 40 is probably the most difficult thing in the game right now

[pastel yew]

IIIVE... harder?

how can that be

[cyan verge]

everyone's already making claims like that, but... so like how many of you are even havoc 20 yet

[quiet valley]

It’s more tedious than IIIVEG, not harder

[pastel yew]

thats the monstrous one right

[quiet valley]

I’ve cleared 40 already

[candid agate]

right now maybe, but i think they're planning to branch out havoc mode

[cyan verge]

wow

well gratz

[pastel yew]

I Gues maybe IIIVEG would be harder if you didnt have someone join on every game with a one shot boss build

usually it just feels like regular hisg

[quiet valley]

Havoc just needs more monster spawns during events

Everything can be chain CC’d

So it’s piss easy, just slow

[pastel yew]

or maybe the game just needs less chain cc

because its the most boring shit

[quiet valley]

Nah give me more enemies

[cyan verge]

maybe things that aren't that should be buffed so they're equivalent in power level

[quiet valley]

But delete smite lol

[pastel yew]

I stand by smite being the worst designed thing in darktide

I just think the issue with cc is it removes tension and decision making

it just becomes psykanium dps

that's not fun

maybe if it was for very short bursts on a cooldown

but smite is just... I cringle my fingers, time to go again

[stuck gorge]

it doesnt remove all decision making, it just adds the decision of if you should VK the smite player or not

[candid agate]

and also turns every smite player into a braindead moron 95% of the time

[cyan verge]

they have difficulty apparently designing good abilities

[quiet valley]

Yeah wtf why did they buff smite in unlocked n loaded

[pastel yew]

nah but I have left a lot of games with smite in

same with plasma gun

you get two plasma guns with even moderately okay aim

I'm out

that game will not be enjoyable unfortunately

maybe DS is that bad too but I havent played enough since its addition to comment

[candid agate]

ogryns and zealots are fine imo, VoC and smite are the real bad ones

[quiet valley]

Plasma trash, ammo hog gun for Havoc

[pastel yew]

I think the thing with VoC is that although its strong, I still get to play the game

I get to doge

[cyan verge]

I don't agree at all, idc what other players bring, I came here to win

[pastel yew]

dodge

and stab

[tall torrent]

Plasma is not as valuable as flamer for havoc

[pastel yew]

I mean thats fine

nothing wrong with that

[quiet valley]

Vets should only being using las weapons with shock troop in havoc 40

[pastel yew]

but I came to play a game

winning is fun for sure, I just wanna have it feel earned

[candid agate]

you play to win, others play for fun

[quiet valley]

Las Pistol and Helbore are like top tier imo

[tall torrent]

I think inf las 7 is up there

[cyan verge]

if I want to play for fun I do that in damnation

where more stuff is like, viable

auric damnation too whatever

[candid agate]

there is fun to be found in overcoming difficult odds

[pastel yew]

true I mean, I'm not sure how much havoc I'm gonna engage with if a lot of things just become unusable

[candid agate]

except for when the odds are your teammates

[pastel yew]

I love the laspistol

[cyan verge]

I would consider that too if I were at havoc 40, but I'm not there yet

[pastel yew]

not enough to use it every game though

[terse idol]

Me as I'm not thrilled on DS horde clear

[quiet valley]

I think it’s ok for shooter/special clear, but las pistol has anti elite + boss dmg, it’s a 3 shot for maulers

[terse idol]

Why run DS when you already have a crusher killing weapon

Plasmagoon

[pastel yew]

running the mk10 instead of the mk2?

[cyan verge]

because the DS4 destroys crushers more ammo efficiently

by just not costing ammo

[candid agate]

the stabby duelling sword needs a nerf to its heavy damage ngl, its actually undefendable how strong it is imo

[quiet valley]

Mark X Las pistol honestly my meta pick for Havoc 40

[cyan verge]

I honestly do not understand how and why the DS4 does so much damage on a stab

[pastel yew]

I dont even think its necessarily just a damage issue

[cyan verge]

if someone could explain, I would love that because

seriously

I am pretty sure I have 1-shot crushers to the face with the DS4 before

and that's not OK

[pastel yew]

the weapon was designed for psyker, its a non warp weapon so its defense stats are GIGA. because psyker relies on warp usually to stay alive... but other classes dont have that, so its just insane

[quiet valley]

It can kill every thing in the game for free, except Crushers

[candid agate]

clearly it was forged by a salamander

[quiet valley]

But crushers can be chain cc + DS 4 lol

[cyan verge]

by comparison every other melee is like, why... why does it just bounce off carapace

[pastel yew]

the ds4 can definitely one shot crushers

[cyan verge]

there are exceptions of course

[pastel yew]

it can do that on psyker

and psyker is worse in melee

[cyan verge]

but the DS4 is insane, like wtf

there are so many other melees that just go 'ting!'

[pastel yew]

ds4 was just sleeper broken on psyker

[candid agate]

so just nerf it for vet and zealot, and keep it the same for psyker, simple

[pastel yew]

a lot of people in this chat knew it'd be a mess when it got ported to other classes too

and it was

[pastel yew]

I dont think that is simple though

you'd be running different versions of the same weapon

[cyan verge]

I think they literally cannot do that

[pastel yew]

you'd basically have to split it into different marks and lock those to classes

[quiet valley]

No one at FS can actually code lol

[cyan verge]

imo the DS4 does not need nerfs, the other melees need buffs

like look at the chainsword

[white minnow]

even in the context of psyker, duellies pretty overtuned

[candid agate]

better to do that than to keep it in its completely broken state for just a little bit of work

[pastel yew]

wild take

some melee definitely need a buff but

[white minnow]

(it can be true that the ds4 needs nerfs and that other melees needs buffs)

[pastel yew]

not to dueling sword levels

almost all S tier shit in this game is already too strong

[cyan verge]

true, but I think it'd help if more things were, not even just OP, but viable

[quiet valley]

Chainsword just need a attack chain that isn’t a fucking X

[hearty panther]

only pirates should be allowed to use dueling sword

[cyan verge]

the spread of melees in this game is like there's a couple very good ones, then a couple mid tier ones, then everything else is just bland trash that does one thing good and fails as a melee because of that

[pastel yew]

maybe now with havoc that's less the case but we just end up with an issue of lots of things not being viable, but if we buff everything TO that level then what... its just play havoc or bust

[hearty panther]

also pretty much everything is viable

[candid agate]

what weapons do you consider unviable

[pastel yew]

realistically a lot of the strongest shit needs to be toned down

[white minnow]

e.g., here are some easy comparisons between weapons of the same class (knife, ds5 overhead heavies, ds stab heavies) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1309287207139545179/image.png?ex=67537d3b&is=67522bbb&hm=f2c99261bf44fa4916a8e56b511152ee1f23805adfb49fb5e3225172e3695be7&

[quiet valley]

I ain’t reading all that

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[white minnow]

you may notice the rather subtle fact that the ds stab heavies are 50% more than the rest or so

[hearty panther]

its like a wealth inequality chart

[pastel yew]

seconding this though, as a psyker that thoroughly abused it

the thing is that no one used it on psyker really

because people are playing the wizard

[candid agate]

the mk4 crit for armoured is double than the mk5

[pastel yew]

they want the wizard sword

[candid agate]

how is this ok

[pastel yew]

its the same with gunpsyker

degenerate build

and it got BUFFED

because no one was really playing it

[cyan verge]

I think assault chainsword, chainaxe, shock maul (kinda), devils claw, shovel, heavy sword, and like every ogryn melee that isn't shovel, pickaxe or shield, is just, not necessarily garbage but underwhelming to say the least

[quiet valley]

Um

[pastel yew]

because thrust attacks right?

[quiet valley]

Only weapon that is bad there is chainsword

[candid agate]

heavy sword and devils claw is kinda debatable imo, other weapons i havent done

[quiet valley]

No idea about Ogryn melees tho

[pastel yew]

shock mauls I've heard is fine? the heavy sword is definitely fine

the heavy sword is strong it doesnt need buffs

it just cant deal with carapace

[cyan verge]

the heavy sword is like, OK

[pastel yew]

but thats good

weapons should not be able to nuke EVERY enemy type

[quiet valley]

Shock maul kills everything in the game except unyielding

It’s very good

[pastel yew]

if every weapon does everything, then its just cosmetic and attack speed differences really

also the shield is definitely fine

and I've heard the pickaxes are giga/

[hearty panther]

helldivers 2 has you covered there

[cyan verge]

yeah, you can make the case for that, but I think a problem there is then this sorta limits your options because then you get situations where, you might be pigeonholed with your other options if you have to secure the thing you can't do, because your melee can't kill carapace

[pastel yew]

trash game 🚬

[cyan verge]

like say, if you ran heavy sword and you don't have carapace, then I guess you need a ranged option that does that, right?

[quiet valley]

Just take a ranged weapon or blitz that can?

[low vault]

I miss bonk club being good

[pastel yew]

but thats how build balancing works, ideally there are enough options that you can do that

the only place this is an issue is zealot

[cyan verge]

you can't realistically go into a game where you can't kill crushers and you just have to rely on someone else to do it for you

[pastel yew]

if you take a bad anti armor melee

[quiet valley]

wtf, you want Devils Claw to kill crushers?

[pastel yew]

you have to take a boltgun or zarona

or cry

but thats the only example

[pastel yew]

the parry already can one shot them

[cyan verge]

I think that the case can be made for it yeah, I mean yeah there's the parry already... but

[pastel yew]

though I'll admit that doesnt make them good into that type

its just funny

[cyan verge]

imo melee should just be like a personal preference thing almost

and every melee should be able to at least do appreciable damage to everything

[pastel yew]

but how can you have a preference if they're all the same

just cosmetic difference

[cyan verge]

because some people like sword and some people like hammers

[quiet valley]

Bad take sorry

[cyan verge]

not 'all the same' but

at least be able to do what the DS4 can do

[pastel yew]

I'm not gonna be convinced probably as I'm.. pretty firmly in the "nerf most of this shit camp"

[cyan verge]

melee should be more powerful and be more dependable without having to worry about like oh well I can't take this it's bad at something I need it to do

[pastel yew]

some weapons need quality of life adjustments for sure

[white minnow]

though in the name of variety, we'll need non-generalist weapons for diversity

[pastel yew]

no weapon should be unusable against an enemy type

I'll agree

but they should not be good at all

[cyan verge]

that's also fair

[quiet valley]

I literally don’t care, they can’t nerf shit like DS and Plasma, because 90% of the player base crutches off them

[pastel yew]

trade offs make for interesting choices

[quiet valley]

I just want combat shotgun buffs

[cyan verge]

I mean I like that the DS4 kinda for instance, is, not GREAT at hordes

[pastel yew]

let em cry

[cyan verge]

it's just that I think it's very important it can at least kill everything else

[pastel yew]

so many unloved weapons

[queen fox]

Ds nerfs are required

[cyan verge]

and you know what's sad too

[pastel yew]

yeah the dueling sword would be balanced for sure

its just slightly too good at what it does well

[cyan verge]

even though the DS4 is not 'great' at hordes it can still keep you very safe and get through the horde, safely

[pastel yew]

and way too good defensively

[cyan verge]

whereas other weapons are like

you have to use push combos and stuff just to stay alive in a horde

[pastel yew]

chain axe on its way to be dogshit into hordes without proper building while still being worse than the DS:

[cyan verge]

so if a weapon is not gonna kill carapace or whatever, you'd at least hope it butchers hordes, right?

[tall torrent]

What’s mk10 laspistol breakpoint for specialists

[quiet valley]

Unless you are Zealot, and only have DS4 for horde clear, events will be very hard

[pastel yew]

zealot gets flamer thou

since they get throwing knives you dont really get punished for taking it

even though I am not a fan of the flamethrower either

[queen fox]

Depends on location, if you have room to move a duelling sword user won't die

[quiet valley]

I gave up on breakpoints while pushing 40, changing HP and all that, but it drops everything in a couple of shots, and for free, only weakness is crusher, boss dmg is very strong

[pastel yew]

you can always move backwards though

even in tight spaces the dueling sword is safer than other weapons

[queen fox]

Not always

[tall torrent]

What do u run on it

[pastel yew]

they also have the giga stagger special

[quiet valley]

Flak, Unyielding, Dum Dum, Infernus

[queen fox]

Yeah lol, I love poking mutants in the face and canceling their charge

[pastel yew]

idk I've used it a lot on psyker and never found myself stuck

not in the same with weapons with short dodges get you

[tall torrent]

Cool, I’ll try it out

[quiet valley]

Infernus important for Havoc, burn ticks are not affected by the 50% pus dmg reduction

[pastel yew]

the mutant one shot with the ds is pretty sexy though

honestly its so funny

[terse idol]

Ahhh me as I have to constantly reply on niche situations

There have been times as of late where you can get surrounded with a weapon like a dueling sword and jus

Not be able to cleave your way out

That is pain

[queen fox]

The special thrust also stops charges on headshots, good for the other two marks

[pastel yew]

I mean I've not found that

though I play darktide like I'm hopped up on adderal

constantly spinning

one game then exhausted

[terse idol]

I've found DS to have like, piss poor horde clear

[pastel yew]

yeah its not great

[umbral scaffold]

What's a good alternative to the dueling sword btw.? If i want to do more AOE horde clearing instead of precision strikes?

[terse idol]

Or welll

Average

[pastel yew]

I imagine its fine on vet

[terse idol]

Thaat can fuck you

Noo

[pastel yew]

with ws

[terse idol]

Hmm

Maybe

I should try

[clever hedge]

Why it does well with plas

[pastel yew]

+20% attack speed is

[quiet valley]

Standard Sapper Shovel, goes crazy

[pastel yew]

huge buff

[terse idol]

Rashad

[queen fox]

Combat axe with head taker and bromentum

[round jetty]

power sword is easily the best for vet

[clever hedge]

It does the horde while ds gets close range special

[terse idol]

Powersword

[wooden oar]

Is bolt pistol good for havoc?

[terse idol]

Rashad

[pastel yew]

given most damage increases are addetive like.. attack speed is one of the few multiplicative bonusses

[round jetty]

what

[terse idol]

Yes

[pastel yew]

even if you already one shot it makes you better

[quiet valley]

Bolt pistol is pretty good for havoc, annoying breakpoints I heard

[pastel yew]

the rashad is better

[terse idol]

Probably better than powersword

Imo

[pastel yew]

just run deadly accurate

[clever hedge]

Duelling sword

[round jetty]

idk what rashad is

[pastel yew]

theres no way its that bad with deadly accurate

[terse idol]

Its a combat axe

Me as I don't know the names anymor

[round jetty]

yeah that explains it, i fucking hate combat axes

[clever hedge]

It's an axe

[terse idol]

And I go crazy

[quiet valley]

I mean hp scaling in 40 is crazy

[terse idol]

Cause you haven't built it properly

Leobably...

[wooden oar]

Is there a range weapon that stands out for vet in havoc?

[terse idol]

What are you running on the combat axe?

[pastel yew]

I mean like the boltpistol is already barely short of one shots for most enemies and deadly accurate doubles your damage

[round jetty]

no i just dont like precision weapons

[pastel yew]

it'd be wild

[quiet valley]

Las Pistol X or Helbores

[terse idol]

Its not a precision weapon

[pastel yew]

precision weapons??

combat axe

??

[round jetty]

the combat axe

???

[terse idol]

The combat axe horde clear is literally

Spam left click

And when you need to kill a crusher you spam heavie

[pastel yew]

how are the hellbores after the buffs to swap speed they got

[terse idol]

Its not precise like a dueling swor

[pastel yew]

as that was their main pain point, I've not tried them since but they sound pretty good

[wise fossil]

Rashad is the light spam weapon.

[quiet valley]

Shovel is safer than axe, better imo, better dodges too

[terse idol]

Hmm

No

[pastel yew]

safer yes but

[terse idol]

Standard shovel for horde control

[pastel yew]

do you need safe if all that shits dead

[terse idol]

But carapace killing is bad

[quiet valley]

You need a trauma pskyer to bring helbore to 40

[pastel yew]

ah so the swap speed is still pain

[terse idol]

For the sapper shovel it can kill a crusher but your horde control is piss poor

[wise fossil]

When did they get a buff to swap speed?

[quiet valley]

Standard Shovel Uncanny kills armor with lights

[pastel yew]

doesnt the sapper still get those wide swings?

on the heavies

[quiet valley]

Yeah but it’s pretty bad

[terse idol]

Not fast enough

[pastel yew]

hmm... not the last patch but one or two before that

whenever the plasma gun got new blessings

[terse idol]

Rashad built properly still has the 3 tap on crushers

[pastel yew]

that patch I think

[terse idol]

On heavy spam

[quiet valley]

You need to pick a role in Havoc 40 imo

[pastel yew]

they did something to it but it may not have been swap speed

[tall torrent]

They nerfed shovel dodge long ago

[terse idol]

Just pick voc and smoke

[round jetty]

the rashad has only strikedown attacks

[terse idol]

Anything but VOC

Troll

[quiet valley]

Having 4 horde clear weapons is bad

[tall torrent]

Nah

[round jetty]

so

yeah

[tall torrent]

3~4

3 hit needs crit

[terse idol]

Varianc

[pastel yew]

I dunno ES might be p good

[terse idol]

[pastel yew]

for meeting the new higher break points

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-wake-up-wakey-wakey-awaken-gif-26734899

[pastel yew]

its a pretty huge damage buff

[terse idol]

I mean

I just

[pastel yew]

ES is already good

[round jetty]

🤔

[quiet valley]

Only like 1 player actually melee killed horde in our 40 run

[terse idol]

Don't think losing the over toughness on high havoc is worth it

At all

[pastel yew]

combos not even once

[terse idol]

Considering what I've heard of getting shredded by reapers and gunner

[tall torrent]

U should play havoc yourself and see

[pastel yew]

I havent played high havoc yet so no idea

[terse idol]

Yes how is this precise

You have 1 combo

And like...

[pastel yew]

but you all have to bear in mind

[terse idol]

Push attack to stagger ragers

[pastel yew]

this is like week 1 havoc

it only gets easier

[terse idol]

Like yeah

[pastel yew]

more knowledge gained skill increased

its not getting harder than this

[quiet valley]

I mean every player will have 40 by next week

It’s too easy to carry ranks

[terse idol]

"Precise" (you have to spam left click on hordes near head level)

[tall torrent]

Havoc40 spawns enough elites

[loud belfry]

blight infected 2 where if you let 20 enemies become infected together they all turn into one beast of nurgle

[pastel yew]

[terse idol]

And precise for crushers (you have to hit crusher heads but your heavy attack is all horizontal overheads that go for head)

[pastel yew]

no more burgle

[round jetty]

idk why id use a single target axe when i can just use a pipe or a can and do the same shit

[pastel yew]

no more

[quiet valley]

Havoc 40 don’t even engage mixed elite horde with melee lol

[pastel yew]

enought of em already

[terse idol]

Its

Not really single target

[quiet valley]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-havoc-40-gif-5413626513047579116

[terse idol]

When you build it right

[pastel yew]

its not single target with brutal momentum

[terse idol]

You have to get bromentum

[pastel yew]

it gives the weapon degenerate levels of cleave

[terse idol]

My man

That means nothing

[pastel yew]

dont trust the tool tips

[terse idol]

When it comes to optimizing it

[pastel yew]

fat shark dont know what their own shit does

[pastel yew]

this looks so fucking sick

[round jetty]

nvm im backing out of this im not building a axe around cleave

[quiet valley]

Shredders and Flamers will kill everything Havoc 40 Push

[terse idol]

???????

You're not building around cleave

It's how the weapon works

Me as I try not to get angry

[quiet valley]

Just take Brutal momentum

[terse idol]

You have to TRY

To build it correctly

[pastel yew]

yeah its like the plasma gun of melee weapons

[wise fossil]

Just take the rashad into the shooting range. It has wide sweeps

[pastel yew]

really mid without proper setup, then one of the strongest with it

[terse idol]

Like you're asking why people use it you're not considering people's advic

And you're just gonna leave because you don't want to learn

[round jetty]

yep you are correct

[terse idol]

Bruh

[pastel yew]

also why the zealot hate

whats up with that

[terse idol]

Why

[pastel yew]

zealots are cool

[round jetty]

never liked zealot

[pastel yew]

look at em run

[terse idol]

Its annoying

[pastel yew]

how can you hate someone having the time of their life

[round jetty]

people can have fun playing zealot, but its always a high chance when ever im in a lobby of the zealot being actual ass

[terse idol]

You don't want to learn how to build it from a shitty weapon to one of the best weapons the vet has

Its crazy

[broken spade]

Brutal momentum makes you deal the same enemy to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th target on a a weakspot kill
Now imagine you kill the first guy in 1 hit
How much do the next 3 targets take?

[pastel yew]

real?

I've found zealots to be the most clutch

[round jetty]

yeah pretty much

[pastel yew]

because they're functionally immortal

[round jetty]

not doing allat

[terse idol]

Bruh

[broken spade]

the fact that it's meant to be a single target weapon makes BM stupid strong on it

[pastel yew]

its kinda hard to fail at zealot

[quiet valley]

Most crutch*

[terse idol]

Fuck off

[broken spade]

cause it's meant to one shot 1 guy
so it one shots 4 guys

[pastel yew]

not mutually exclusive

all classes have their own crutch shit thouh

some are more offensive than others

cough.. psyker.. cough

[round jetty]

zealot is a fine class, im just not fond of the people who play it

[terse idol]

But also valid and have a good day

He just doesn't want to learn zealot

Lol

[broken spade]

simply hate everyone

everyone's abusing crutches

[wise fossil]

You can lead a horse to water...

[pastel yew]

peak 40k moment

[quiet valley]

Pskyer actually strongest class, but Zealot seem stronger because you zealot is easy as fuck to play

[round jetty]

uhuh

psyker is fine

[pastel yew]

I wish vet had more fun ability options though

[round jetty]

fun*

fuck

[pastel yew]

its kinda the big sad that two of the three are just

live more

and the other is just do more damage (even though it is fun_

theres just not much variety

[quiet valley]

Only Based Vets use Exec Stance

[pastel yew]

exec stance is the goat

no other ability in the game can make shit weapons that good

[pseudo fiber]

I'm gonna lie down

[pastel yew]

I hate watching people call for ES buffs

its fine as it is

[quiet valley]

I mean it’s still the worst ability

[pastel yew]

10 more to go... and you restin?

[pseudo fiber]

I am brother I am

[quiet valley]

But damn that dmg scaling

[pastel yew]

worst doesnt mean bad though?

[pseudo fiber]

I need to have a sleeb

[pastel yew]

you should compare the strength of things to the enemies rather than the other things players get

ig

[quiet valley]

People just want a buff because the other two are way easier to use

[round jetty]

voice of command my beloved

[terse idol]

seee id like it if you could maintain ES on bossessss

[broken spade]

voice of command is tough competition

[quiet valley]

Ppl wanna press f and instantly win

[terse idol]

The swap buff was huge

[pastel yew]

? wdym a little confused by this

[terse idol]

I mean VOC is like

Good

Not that there's much else to say

[quiet valley]

Just a little better than good lol

[pastel yew]

VoC is good but boring

[terse idol]

It iss

[tall torrent]

Exe lacks uptime vs boss

[pastel yew]

I basically only use it when I have no reason to take the others

ahhh I see

the boss is probably gonna die before it elapses though

[hearty panther]

if your xstance lasts longer than four hours you gotta see a doctor

[pastel yew]

or at least youll get a lot of value from it in a short burst

[serene bough]

VoC is definitely very uninteresting

[pastel yew]

the beginning is the most important anyway because of the modifiers

[quiet valley]

If exec had 100% uptime on boss it would be broken

[serene bough]

At the same time its incredibly op

[round jetty]

party finder is a snoozefest

[pastel yew]

old ES boltgun was so fucking sad... if you had to reload without the reload talents it just ran out

[terse idol]

There is no way to keep ES up on a boss and that is annoying

[tall torrent]

Yea, could be better than 5s tho

[pastel yew]

I mean my usual strat is just

krak grenade

then hit them as they're staggered

[terse idol]

I run shredder

[pastel yew]

free weakspot hits

ah rough then

[terse idol]

For hordes

[pastel yew]

I'm not all that keen on shredders unless my melee is really not good into em

[stuck gorge]

shredder is op on havoc 40 horde clear

fr fr

[terse idol]

I don't have a problem with bosses but that's why I'm saying ES could stand to be increased even abit vs a boss

[stuck gorge]

trust

[terse idol]

Like i dunno

[quiet valley]

Shredder in Havoc 40 is very good

[terse idol]

Hit them in the head get a 2s increase up to a max of 10s

I'm spit balling

[pastel yew]

yeah since dots dont get affected by giga resistance

secret shotgun mega buff?

flechette... god tier...

could it be

[quiet valley]

I mean shotgun just needs a little push to be broken op

[pastel yew]

whats that meme combo

[terse idol]

Just increase it to a maximum duration on a special condition

[pastel yew]

manstopper and flechette? on the uhh

[quiet valley]

Needs reload speed and non weakspot dmg multipler buff

[pastel yew]

lawbringer?

[terse idol]

Rather than 5s

[pastel yew]

yeah I do wish they were just their special ammo though

or that it was a toggle

[terse idol]

The way I see it too, zealot on fury can get cdr vs bosses

[pastel yew]

and the special ammo used more than one shells worth of reserve

[terse idol]

Exe doesn't its just flat 5s

[quiet valley]

Lawbringer can nearly 1 mag a Pogryn in Auric Damn

The unyielding mod on shotty is crazy

1 tap bulwark and Reapers

[terse idol]

Get 1x sniper

[pastel yew]

us that with ES and all the modifiers?

[quiet valley]

ES and some mods

[pastel yew]

the pain point of the shotgun when I Tried it though is that it doesnt seem great into the things you fight most frequently

regular gunners and shit

[quiet valley]

Not every on ability mod, you can actually kill 1 mag with bait build like that

[tall torrent]

Pretty sure they can’t

[quiet valley]

Erm

[tall torrent]

Boss damage is mostly no respite

[quiet valley]

No

Full Bord

Bore*

[hearty panther]

more like full snore

[tall torrent]

Bulwark & reaper are 2 shots minimum

[hollow ibex]

doable with the slug

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1301571210508763157/41.mp4?ex=67531aa6&is=6751c926&hm=f738dc47a94b83213e87fcf3115037adc99af3c2bdbbf53f18152e98b29b41af&

[quiet valley]

I have like 200 hrs on Shotty Aurics

[tall torrent]

Slug could 1 tap

[hollow ibex]

but idk how you'd do it with primary shot on any of the shotties

[quiet valley]

Lawbringer

[terse idol]

Law bringer with what blssings

[quiet valley]

Kantreal if you are close

[terse idol]

I'm curious

[quiet valley]

But not realistic

[hollow ibex]

do you have a clip of it?

and a build?

🤔

[quiet valley]

Full Bore No respite

Yes 1 sec

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/uJk1jxGLp6

Posted this a bit ago

When ppl were saying shotties unusable in Auric

[umbral scaffold]

is the las pistol viable?

[quiet valley]

Ofc

It’s very good

Both Marks

[umbral scaffold]

how do you spec into it? it feels very weak

[quiet valley]

Build crit

Go Flak, Unyeilding, Dum Dum, Infernus

[terse idol]

Unyielding?

Is the mod good?

[umbral scaffold]

Should i stop attempting the twins mission with randoms? I keep doing so much damage but my mates just do, nothing

[terse idol]

Me as I have to ask if it's good

[quiet valley]

It slaps bosses

[hollow ibex]

ah yeah exec and deadshot rip

[terse idol]

Don't you take uhhhhh

[hollow ibex]

could be a funny build to run tho

[umbral scaffold]

Whose job is to keep the team alive btw.? Which class does that?

[quiet valley]

I mean it slaps in Auric imo

[terse idol]

The defensive talents like ghost for a las pistol?

[tall torrent]

Every class keeps themselves alive

[umbral scaffold]

I know i have voice of command

[quiet valley]

You just have to be a good vet player to not crutch on VOC or Invis to stay alive

[hollow ibex]

looks more fun than the traditional CIAG/recon las deadshit memes

[quiet valley]

I mean deadshot is easy pick

[umbral scaffold]

i dont know much about build making but imo support psyker does the most for the team

[quiet valley]

You only have a couple shells

[umbral scaffold]

I have been playing since today and what i understand about Veteran is:

Stay with the team
Do a lot of damage
Use voice of command on bosses
Charge attack,dodge and release on dueling sword

[quiet valley]

Not even a real stam drain

[terse idol]

I mean

Its not a clutch

Crutch

Its a tool

Okay?

AHH

[umbral scaffold]

I want to try out the other classes but i wanna get lvl 30 vet first

[broken spade]

correction:
use voice of command on everything

[terse idol]

Ain't no insult to use like

[broken spade]

the cooldown is short

[terse idol]

The tools the game literally gives you

[umbral scaffold]

So i have no clue what they're meant to be doing

[umbral scaffold]

psykers are kinda odd you can spec them into alot of things

[terse idol]

Infil being on a longer cooldown still means you still gotta use it right

[quiet valley]

I am a VOC crutch player too, I was planning on going ES for havoc 40, but swapped off to VOC at like 35

[pastel yew]

dude shotgun ES seems... fun

ES is kinda cheating though as it makes all rough breakpoints squeaky clean

[umbral scaffold]

I ise it whenever i can, but obv not when the cooldown is 0, instantly

[terse idol]

They kill

[pallid ermine]

Zealot has a combat ability that functions as a support item, Ogryn have a talent that aggros enemies, and Vet has voice of command

[terse idol]

Ogryns have more defined "builds"

[quiet valley]

I mean the thing is that ppl think ES is bad because they die while using it

[pallid ermine]

that’s it in terms of support

[terse idol]

Middle taunt ogryn is drawing aggro

Like a tank

[pastel yew]

stay with the team is debatable

[austere mica]

Psykers have the best damage by a lot, but suffer in melee a bit because they are very glassy

[pastel yew]

you wanna be close enough to support

but in the best position to kill shit

everyone being in one spot is counterintuitively quite not good

[umbral scaffold]

And what builds can veteran do besides VC?

[terse idol]

Exe

[pastel yew]

everything

[quiet valley]

Ain’t no way

[terse idol]

Which is special and gunner killing

[pastel yew]

literally all of vets stuff is good

[pallid ermine]

veteran is versatile asf

[terse idol]

VoC is a jack of all trade

[pastel yew]

every keystone ability and blitz (now that havoc is a thing)

[quiet valley]

Vet can build anything

[pallid ermine]

my current vet build is a combat knife melee build

[tall torrent]

Skirmisher:

[terse idol]

Infil let's you get into fights and get out

[quiet valley]

Any weapon

[umbral scaffold]

What is the coherently range? The game never explains that

[pallid ermine]

bolt pistol for weapon swap perks

it goes nuts

I love it

[austere mica]

Smokes were always workable

[terse idol]

Bistol for grenadier

[pastel yew]

okay, everything but the vet auras

are good

xd

[quiet valley]

I mean I have Auric Shredder AP build because ES dmg scaling makes it viable lol

[tall torrent]

That’s not an aura

[quiet valley]

And shredder isn’t even a weapon haha

It’s only a toughness stick for Zealots

[pastel yew]

they were just unneccesary

[pastel yew]

is skirmisher not the damage aura?

[tall torrent]

No

Bottom right talent

[shadow dagger]

i was joking when i said thered be day job jimothies running auric maels thinking theyll just smoothly unlock havoc

[terse idol]

Fire team is alright

[quiet valley]

Stupid run for dmg node

It’s bad imo

[terse idol]

And like...

[shadow dagger]

i didnt actually want to join one of these lobbies

[terse idol]

You do need it for some breakpoint

[shadow dagger]

[terse idol]

It's not bad

It's niche

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's ok

mostly for pathing

[pastel yew]

oh the sprint talent

wouldnt know

never tried it

I confused it with fire team

[tall torrent]

It’s dogshit

[terse idol]

You literally need it sometimes for weapon breakpoints

Iirc bistol

[pastel yew]

imagine not running

[quiet valley]

If you need Skirmisher for breakpoints…

[pastel yew]

deadly accurate on the bolt pistol

[terse idol]

Fire team

Stop calling it skirmisher

Its not skirmishe

[pastel yew]

you either build deadly accurate, or you build for grenade buffs

and thats like it

[terse idol]

Yeah lethal prox

[quiet valley]

I’m talking about Skirmisher not Fireteam

[pastel yew]

lethal prox blowwss

outside of the frags

[terse idol]

I was talking bout fire team

[pastel yew]

I wish it was better..

[terse idol]

Because you need fire team for some bps

Dats it

[pastel yew]

it's sad the only good use for that blessing is with a jank interaction

[hollow ibex]

that's a pretty big deal tbf

[quiet valley]

Ok Fireteam is meh but best pathing by far

[pastel yew]

yeah its just, why cant it be good for the bolt pistol

[serene bough]

Skirmisher is probably top 5 for one of the most dogshit perks in the game

[terse idol]

Yes the bistol build for grenadier literally relies on LP

[pastel yew]

I think the frag build is kinda boring

[quiet valley]

Skirmisher is garbage

[terse idol]

Eh it's fun

[pastel yew]

gimp your weapon to buff grenades

[serene bough]

Wrong

[terse idol]

Its not

[hollow ibex]

gun's still good

[terse idol]

Vimped

[serene bough]

Opinion rejected

[pastel yew]

its gimped because you cant take

[terse idol]

Its literally not gimping the gun

[hollow ibex]

and frags are funny

[pastel yew]

deadly accurate + surgical

[terse idol]

Because you just build the breakpoints with run and gun

[hollow ibex]

don't need it tbh

[terse idol]

And lp

[pastel yew]

without those blessings it is significantly weaker

[terse idol]

You can tap sprint to get the extra damage

[hollow ibex]

still hits the importan weakpoints

[terse idol]

And have bigger grenade radius

[hollow ibex]

and surgical is annoying on bistol anyway

[tall torrent]

Puncture

[terse idol]

Also because run and gun buffs your ads

[terse idol]

WHAT

MY BRAIIN

[serene bough]

I love run and gun, but puncture better

[pastel yew]

nah I'm a dead shot gamer.. I die by the stamina curio

[tall torrent]

Puncture is better for breakpoints

[terse idol]

Th÷ fuck!

[quiet valley]

Puncture is bad imo tho

[pastel yew]

you take puncture so your team mates can snipe all your kills

[terse idol]

But you do it for the breakpoint

I hate bistol breakpoints!

[quiet valley]

Building for DOT Breakpoints feels bad

[tall torrent]

Puncture is a bandaid fix on a gun that’s 5~8% damage away from breakpoints

[tall torrent]

I agree

[pastel yew]

it feels bad but I dont think it is bad

[tall torrent]

It should just have a bit more damage by default

Feels ass

[pastel yew]

especially for such a meaty gun though... it feels like a war crime

[terse idol]

The tight bps

Hurt

[pastel yew]

I will agree on its base damage being kinda bad

[quiet valley]

I haven’t brought one to havoc but deadly surgical kills everything on Auric just fine

[pastel yew]

honestly with deadly accurate it feels like what it should be already

[terse idol]

At that point I'd still just play the zarona

[pastel yew]

zarona is no where near as cool

[terse idol]

That's why i don't want to run tha

[pastel yew]

its definitely stronger

[quiet valley]

Zarona shit ammo eco

[terse idol]

Because why would I play the revolver again

But for my bistol

[tall torrent]

Zarona is way worse in havoc I can say that for sure lol

[quiet valley]

Congrats on taking 8 larges to kill 20 elites lol

[terse idol]

I'm talking on the damnation aspect but I guess now the tides turned

The darktide

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-good-one-laughing-monkey-lol-gif-16407772

good

zarona deserves to suffer

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

Havoc is a weird meta to build for

[quiet valley]

Any ammo hungry weapon that cannot kill mixed pushes is trash for Havoc 40

[serene bough]

Havoc meta seems like survival and DoTs

[tall torrent]

Because it’s so restrictive but somehow it’s not overlapping with base game as much (at least for veteran)

[hollow ibex]

kinda a good thing ig

[quiet valley]

Havoc Meta is CC and gold toughness

[hollow ibex]

and smokes

[serene bough]

Pls no

[frank ether]

is it really suprising

[quiet valley]

Smokes are good but it’s basically Veterans Smite

Boring and annoying

[frank ether]

what problem can't be solved by throwing CC and piss toughness at it

[neat stratus]

Falling out of the map

[terse idol]

When everything sounds like it hits like a freight truck

There's nothing better but defensive

[terse idol]

Like i gottaaa say

[frank ether]

just dont play soyker, easy

[neat stratus]

Just killing it before it can do a single hit:

[terse idol]

All in all the grenades are jus

Boring

Woah me as I

Throw a krak

[quiet valley]

Woe, krak be upon you

[terse idol]

(The enemies dies before the krak explodes)

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/woe-gas-leak-be-upon-ye-gas-leak-explosion-explode-whoa-a-plague-upon-thee-gif-16560110601216015799

[quiet valley]

lol bro doesn’t know how to krak

[frank ether]

this do be how I picture avg vet main lmao

[terse idol]

No i know how to leak

Krak

And I know how to leak

[neat stratus]

Catch