Also glad I have a reason to run heavy laspistol. Can do that as well
#veteran-class
tawdry jackal
old quail
at a very basic level if they just changed all instances of power on generic hit/kill to damage you could at least give it competing utility compared to cleave or impact blessings
and then power could be reserved as a Special Reward™️ for doing specific/cool stuff
tall torrent
61 on one, 80 on the rest. this is possible?
Rounding errors (it’ll “correct” in empowerment)
terse idol
61 on one, 80 on the rest. this is possible?
Imo best to use the fastest firing helbor
terse idol
at a very basic level if they just changed all instances of power on generic hit...
Fatshark if they gave every melee weapon the BM equivalent baseline
true jackal
this is probably not the best solution, but hopefully at some point they rework stuff like bm and sluaght then just "temporarily" buff the fuck out of the base weapons then they can adjust from there
tall torrent
BM is not hard to adjust for
charred pulsar
Is there an insane person here who already got the new armor from havoc mode?
tall torrent
Reduce BM’s activation count from 3 to 2
Buff combat axe base cleave
terse idol
Its just a hard sell to try to sell us new blessings
floral hearth
genuine comedy gold
charred pulsar
The one taht says "help 50 at havoc" or something
terse idol
Even though the old ones are god tier
true jackal
Reduce BM’s activation count from 3 to 2
Buff combat axe base cleave
i'd prefer if it did something else entirely tbh, but the buff base cleave 100%
serene bough
Agree in concept, but in practice it's pretty difficult to balance for
Theres always going to be the best blessing or blessing combo that works better than others for a weapon
true jackal
like still make it cleave focused, just not essentially removing a mechanic of the game(hitmass)
serene bough
May vary by class, but nevertheless still true
true jackal
100%, but some weapons are really only viable becuase of certain blessings
axes are the big one
old quail
Agree in concept, but in practice it's pretty difficult to balance for
people think way too much in binary terms when it comes to topics like blessing balance
you see it a lot when people go "this will be too strong or too weak" whenever speculating about something
floral hearth
axes are the big one
cant say combat axe without bromentum
white minnow
Agree in concept, but in practice it's pretty difficult to balance for
you can just tweak the numbers and the proc conditions
difficult in the sense of time investment but there's a reasonable process to go about it
old quail
there's a very wide range of relative balance positions something can occupy, and you can certainly make the ecosystem more healthy when it comes to darktide's balance by eliminating the stuff that is wildly out of line
true jackal
cant say combat axe without bromentum
white minnow
set some reference numbers, balance according to the reference numbers, and call it a day (a very long day)
terse idol
Its not like the worst
true jackal
2 they get that weakness removed with 1 blessing
terse idol
Sapper shovels are literally this
But they got some decroited horde control
The issue with combat axe without bm
0 cleave
tall torrent
Buff base cleave & cleave distribution
Doesn’t need to be very high cleave
Reduce BM’s activation count from 3 to 2
So u could at least cope with strength blessings and not necessarily have to run BM
old quail
a "best" blessing combo is a relative term. the problem is when you get borderline asinine blessing allotments like on dclaw
that has 3 impact blessings despite being a bladed weapon
old quail
impact blessings aren't even conceptually bad, the problem is they have to do something important, be the only way to get to do that important thing, and cannot exist in a blessing pool where the opportunity cost is too high
terse idol
Like the one thing the whole weapon is built around
true jackal
one of the new blessings the power sword has would go crazy on the claw
the perfect block gives attack speed one
old quail
and a lot of the time there just isn't that much thought put into them
terse idol
It'd be alright
Dclaw still just has no carapace killing
And you're still running like
Rampag
Savage
No use in getting attack speed imo where your other blessings just give you damage
old quail
dclaw shouldve gotten parry-based blessings and its just a tragedy it didn't
terse idol
And the targets you are parrying don't need attack speed to take down
terse idol
dclaw shouldve gotten parry-based blessings and its just a tragedy it didn't
Maybe they'll look at the old melee again
true jackal
No use in getting attack speed imo where your other blessings just give you dama...
fair, esp with the 10% the blessing gives you right now
terse idol
Yeah
serene bough
you see it a lot when people go "this will be too strong or too weak" whenever s...
well, it's kind of hard not to if the end goal in performance
terse idol
Like it's not a slow weapon
To warrant 10% attack speed on perfect parry
maybe ignore enemy armour and give weak point damage on perfect parry
serene bough
when I think of something like the ilas, the only two blessings I think of which are definitely worth taking are Ghost and HH
terse idol
Anything!
serene bough
then there's efficiency lol
true jackal
opening salvo
serene bough
you can just tweak the numbers and the proc conditions
difficult in the sense o...
its just that certain blessings are destine to be great whereas others are garbage by design
tall torrent
when I think of something like the ilas, the only two blessings I think of which...
Falter on the mk7 
true jackal
the fucking sword explosion one
terse idol
There does need to be a blessing overhaul
true jackal
it does like 30 damage
serene bough
ill be thinking about mk7 falter when i reach higher havoc rank
terse idol
Doesn't kill you, removes 20% heat
serene bough
hope it works well
terse idol
Because you're not using it for the aoe damage
tall torrent
Doesn't kill you, removes 20% heat
It staggers ragers
terse idol
You're using it to reduce the hea
terse idol
It staggers ragers
white minnow
its just that certain blessings are destine to be great whereas others are garba...
yeah and in those cases, we can just annihilate their initial concept and go from there
but in the vast majority of cases, the work that needs to be done is to just tweak the numbers
true jackal
ye
tall torrent
true jackal
they seem afraid to make the funni blessings good
tall torrent
they seem afraid to make the funni blessings good
We had something nice (lightning reflexes) and they gutted it
true jackal
which was that one
serene bough
blessings that trigger on pretty specific circumstances just need to be more substantial to be considered over ones that consistently give more power
tall torrent
which was that one
Perfect block applies stun
white minnow
blessings that trigger on pretty specific circumstances just need to be more sub...
ye, and we can always nerf the ones that consistently give more power
e.g., headtaker
tall torrent
The 1 singular good block-related blessing
tall torrent
And that got nerfed into oblivion
true jackal
blessings that trigger on pretty specific circumstances just need to be more sub...
I think a good example of doing that right is some of the finesse damage blessings
riposte used to be total shit
becuase of how the calcualtions worked, the number it gave just didn't do anything
not riposte
precog
terse idol
why it no proc on weakspot hits only
Me as
I'm conflicted
This is giving me helldivers flashbacks
serene bough
ye, and we can always nerf the ones that consistently give more power
im not opposed to tweaking numbers and making things more balanced
white minnow
i think all basic on-hit stuff should just have some condition tacked on
headtaker, hammerblow, and dumdum just have the bare minimum of being weakspot/chained/etc.
executor already is chained weakspot so headtaker will serve as the weaker overall but more consistent version
white minnow
im not opposed to tweaking numbers and making things more balanced
yeah, I just think that the process is more straightforward than what you say
serene bough
i dont think so
its more than just numbers, but also how easy to use and how situational it is
white minnow
well yeah, and we set the numbers that you get according to the proc conditions
serene bough
and eventually, players will gravitate towards what gives the most consistent power the greatest amount of time
terse idol
Its also the affect it has on every other class that uses it
white minnow
and that's fine
if you can make use of those high skill ceiling blessings, then that's good
serene bough
thats not including class diversity either
white minnow
and that's normal
terse idol
Its a ripple
serene bough
Its also the affect it has on every other class that uses it
damn beat me to it
white minnow
the fact that players are good and get rewarded for it is a natural thing
true jackal
there will always be a best, whats important is making sure that it's not the only option
old quail
you cannot balance for a perfect equilibrium but you can certainly make relative blessing balance considerably better
serene bough
this is true
old quail
right now it's a case of 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd place being leagues above all other blessings
tall torrent
I should make a meme of veteran havoc starter pack
serene bough
efficiency meta when?
true jackal
efficency with the auto fire mod on the fastest firing lasgun
tall torrent
Efficiency could be good
If it was working much more frequently if not all the time
frank ether
i think all basic on-hit stuff should just have some condition tacked on
headtak...
All blessings must be limbsplitter tier true true
return to white weapon
white minnow
though it'll have a dubious use case on one of the more ammo-efficient weapon families
tall torrent
Also imma be fr they need to remove no respite from a bunch of weapons
terse idol
At the very least, different viable combinations would be cool
umbral scaffold
Wow, the duel sword is so much more fun than the powe sword for some reason
tall torrent
No respite does like genuinely nothing outside of shotguns & Helbore
white minnow
in that case i would annihilate the concept of efficiency entirely (for the infan lasguns)
true jackal
at least it's not limpshitter anymore
tired badge
Any tips/cheese on how to get "on overwatch"?
true jackal
when it literally made your weapon worse
terse idol
Any tips/cheese on how to get "on overwatch"?
Don't get hit, run toughness curios
frank ether
tbh if you wanna complain about blessings the low hanging fruit is uncanny and hand cannon
true jackal
i'd say BM hangs even lower
tired badge
So toughness counts but health not?
old quail
tbh if you wanna complain about blessings the low hanging fruit is uncanny and h...
uncanny coexists on multiple weapons that can rack up insane crit chance and/or have deranged crit adm mods
terse idol
Toughness doesn't count
white minnow
stuff like uncanny is straightforward at least cuz you can just knock that to at least 24% - 30% rending at max
could do something more comprehensive like annihilating rending entirely and replacing the bonus with something else like +weakspot damage
frank ether
having super niche blessings isn't the solution either with a lot of weapons just being balanced around those options providing reliable power
like chainaxe would suck donkey ass without slaughterer-headtaker
old quail
it's one head of the ADM-defiling hydra
true jackal
having super niche blessings isn't the solution either with a lot of weapons jus...
part of balancing blessings is balancing the weapons
terse idol
You can get hit once if you have 100% toughness in melee cause it doesn't bleed over iirc
true jackal
hence my suggestion earlier of like giga buffing all the "effected" weapons by a sluaght or bm rework/nerf
tired badge
Thank u ser, God bless ya
frank ether
part of balancing blessings is balancing the weapons
yeah because they have done a stellar job of balancing thus far
tall torrent
I think uncanny could be balanced if it was 20% melee rending at 5 stacks
frank ether
how does autopistol fare after pinning nerf? tell me
white minnow
having super niche blessings isn't the solution either with a lot of weapons jus...
fatshark likes to do changes in parts, so we're going to end up with things that perform worse with a blessing balance patch for some time, but it'll end up good in the end when we can get things into a better state overall
terse idol
how does autopistol fare after pinning nerf? tell me
Well
Most guns are okay
Besides shrede
Lmao!
Even recon moving from shit tier to okay
old quail
how does autopistol fare after pinning nerf? tell me
the vast majority of weapons are in a better state than pre patch 13
terse idol
Like we're alright rn
white minnow
I think uncanny could be balanced if it was 20% melee rending at 5 stacks
i extremely disagree because +100% rending is just silly value
especially if you use vet's talent nodes as reference
true jackal
how does autopistol fare after pinning nerf? tell me
terrible needs to be buffed, I don't see how this effects a theorical in which they fix the broken part of the game
tall torrent
i extremely disagree because +100% rending is just silly value
I mean 20% at full stacks
tall torrent
Because 20% is genuinely not that high
old quail
does dumdum still stack on teammates
true jackal
in theory I like certain things effecting dots, but for like 90% of those things it needs to not do that
white minnow
does dumdum still stack on teammates
why are you asking this, you monster
old quail
why are you asking this, you monster
🙂
white minnow
in theory I like certain things effecting dots, but for like 90% of those things...
yeah it's something that can be cool but the balancing consequences can be... disastrous
tall torrent
I got a friendly hitmarker from getting stabbed by a teammate’s relic sword yesterday
old quail
in theory I like certain things effecting dots, but for like 90% of those things...
i think for the most part it just has to be talent-based rather than blessing dependant
terse idol
old quail
unless you explicitly made a weapon revolving around its own innate dot application (at which point you'd probably want it to have its own unique dot anyways)
white minnow
more-or-less making blessings affecting DoTs to be an "opt-in" feature rather than an "opt-out" feature
old quail
yea
tall torrent
I reject uncanny strike
old quail
it's also one of those things where it's not a stated interacted and does not have any intuitive reason to function like that
old quail
so it's another obfuscated knowledge-gate for new players
white minnow
they don't know....!!!
true jackal
does thrust still work to crank dots
old quail
they fixed that many moons ago
white minnow
tragic
old quail
(and in doing so brought about ye olde thrust bug)
white minnow
SHOT in the BACK ALLEY
tall torrent
The best bug in the game by far was limbsplitter brutal momentum Helbore bayonet
true jackal
I wasn't here for that
true jackal
I was here for that tho
old quail
it had the same proper psyker shout does/did where you could get dogs off people with it
it was beautiful
true jackal
I just started bascially wallhacking with it on vet
old quail
im sad u dont hit an infinite number of bulwarks with the kant special anymore
hollow ibex
im sad u dont hit an infinite number of bulwarks with the kant special anymore
In general it’s kinda sad now 😭
true jackal
the combat shotguns kinda are in general
it's another thing they seem scared of making good
frank ether
the vast majority of weapons are in a better state than pre patch 13
because you didn't had huge blessings nerfs similar to pinning fire nerf, please read the context before educating me
hollow ibex
Was hoping to see some balancing in this patch
frank ether
in fact nothing got any major nerfs at all, hand cannon got a little slap, which it shouldn't even exist to begin with
tawdry jackal
Actually I need to level my zealot so I can set things on fire. I keep forgetting
midnight totem
I reject uncanny strike
Why's that
midnight totem
Fair
true jackal
tbh the only weapon I use that it's on is the shovel
ocean moat
Actually I need to level my zealot so I can set things on fire. I keep forgettin...
you get to contribute to the event reward completion at least
old quail
because you didn't had huge blessings nerfs similar to pinning fire nerf, please...
your context is picking out the most egregious example of something being ignored by fatshark balancing after making a point that their balancing is bad. bolter had the exact same nerf and is in a much more healthy state than autopistol is
a lot of hand cannon's utility was from when it was bugged and applied on crits globally (so you'd get stupid shit like dclaw 1 shotting crushers on a crit parry)
frank ether
your context is picking out the most egregious example of something being ignore...
its a posterchild example of what happens when you gut strong blessing while being too lazy to consider what it does to weapons that rely on it
old quail
surgical is also far more egregious. but before it was able to stack to 100% it was straight up useless
old quail
its a posterchild example of what happens when you gut strong blessing while bei...
it is, i'm pretty sure, the only standing example of it
true jackal
idk why you are aruging against a theorical world in which they go in and make the game overall healthier
terse idol
They really just gotta look at the shredder pistol again
white minnow
its a posterchild example of what happens when you gut strong blessing while bei...
yeah, but it is what it is
fatshark just does things in parts
true jackal
I get what you are saying ,but we are shrimply discussing what would happen in na ideal world
white minnow
e.g., bolter buffs afterwards
frank ether
bolter got buffed after like a year of reddit crying about it yeah
old quail
revolver is another one of those guns where a lot of the alternatives are just hard to stomach even in a vacuum. i don't think i've ever seen someone have more than 2 trick shooter stacks (given most of the time i see someone playing with that blessing it's on an agri) consistently
old quail
bolter got buffed after like a year of reddit crying about it yeah
...no? almost every statistical buff besides an extra mag and some cara adm was patch 14
and then most people i saw using it were running exe stance - which already solved the handling issues
(after the handling was improved)
dense light
Hardened skin is so fun guys oh my gosh i cant believe how absolutely fun hardened skin is definitely one of the modifiers of all time i love shooting the same thing dozens of times and watching all of my dots incrementally whittle away a health pool the size of the atlantic ocean 
frank ether
it is nigh impossible to miss a shot with it now
and improved against dogs so you can also delete dog waves with it
Idk why you'd magdump dogs with it but you can now
old quail
...no? almost every statistical buff besides an extra mag and some cara adm was ...
_ _
this is what i said
if you ran exe stance bolter after patch 14 you had almost identical performance to after unlocked n loaded
true jackal
Hardened skin is so fun guys oh my gosh i cant believe how absolutely fun harden...
the buffed reaper killing the whole team
tall torrent
In a bandaid fix to address their accuracy problem
old quail
patch 14 was statistically much kinder to the bolter, it was a significant finesse/base damage/flak adm bump
frank ether
Wasnt that the patch where they made sniper bolter build a thing?
old quail
yeah
frank ether
which was the build reddit never ever liked
old quail
because the finesse bump coincided with surgical
frank ether
because it still needed aim and its ads recoil was broken
terse idol
Dmr bolter my beloved
frank ether
and a significant portion of reddit
old quail
you didn't even really have to 'snipe' because you could just run an exe stance build and bodyshot shit
frank ether
does not like adsing with bolter
and just want to magdump with it
I've been hanging in this channel witnessing ''bolter bad'' complains like every week lmao
terse idol
I feel at least and you might be memeing, I don't thiiink they take that much stock over reddit opinions
old quail
you could do that on zealot with chastise for the longest time but a lot of people had some weird allergy to that
terse idol
But I guess it's ther
dense light
the buffed reaper killing the whole team
thankfully there's only about 10 buffed gunners, 4 ragers, and 8 gorillion scab stalkers waiting for when it dies
terse idol
The fatshark dev who's job is it to average out opinions from the discor
The reddit
And the forums
dense light
They probably outsource that too
terse idol
Damn they're doing okay
If they listened to reddit the plasmagun probably woulda gotten buffed i reckon
frank ether
you could do that on zealot with chastise for the longest time but a lot of peop...
chastise was broken
old quail
it absolutely was
frank ether
you can't expect reddit goober to make a playstyle entirely based off of abusing one ultimate under one class
old quail
but it also created a sort of cool dynamic where the way a vet and a zealot used the bolter was completely different because they had opposite ways of getting around the handling issue
quaint isle
Does the on Overwatch dropping off the edge cheese still work ?
old quail
and while the foundation of that phenomenon was terrible for balance it felt like the most organic class-divergence for a weapon
frank ether
it just needed a fix to recoil behavior
old quail
yeah
frank ether
thats all it truly needed
but people cried so much they caved in
and now I hit shots that I know should have missed
old quail
gun handling in darktide is a very broken system if u really gaze into the abyss
but the bolter was eldritch
obtuse elm
gun handling in darktide is a very broken system if u really gaze into the abyss
Graia vigilant ftw
old quail
recoil/sway impulses that pushed the gun downwards
terse idol
I love when I shoot my gun and the entire square goes into my face
dense light
It'd be crazy if they sourced people's opinions and compared them against a statwall of weapon performance and ability usage and then used the reflecting data to make informed decisions on balancing things instead of - haha ranged gun too good half damage if you want to progress at all 
terse idol
It'd be crazy if they sourced people's opinions and compared them against a stat...
I mean
frank ether
gun handling in darktide is a very broken system if u really gaze into the abyss
honestly this is what the game needs fixing with, a general polish to recoil and gun mechanics
old quail
darktide's gunplay has the issue where the strongest ranged options are always or almost always the ones that interact with the gunplay system the least
laspistol, any full auto spray weapon, etc
frank ether
I dont like how ads mechanics work, I don't like how spread mechanics work, I dont like any of it
old quail
I dont like how ads mechanics work, I don't like how spread mechanics work, I do...
basically nobody burst fires unless you're forced to be the gun
terse idol
Me as I like the bistol with run and gun
frank ether
I do not like how some guns have massive head hitboxes while others need pinpoint precision
terse idol
old quail
which is really unfortunate
frank ether
basically nobody burst fires unless you're forced to be the gun
agri iag moment
old quail
because there's entire burst-dedicated blessings but recoil is strongest on the first few shots of any gun
frank ether
or HHs
true jackal
the hipfire on the Infantry lasguns still pisses me off
old quail
and degrades as you continue to fire
true jackal
I tend to hipfire precisione weapons
obtuse elm
Give me a damn muzzle break for my autogun
old quail
which means trying to burstfire to control an automatic weapon is the opposite of helpful
terse idol
which means trying to burstfire to control an automatic weapon is the opposite o...
Oh
I'm knee capping myself
And I didn't know
old quail
if u really want to make ur brain hurt go into the psykh with a vraks 3 and just mess around with shooting it into a wall
terse idol
The game when it goes against my past knowledge of how gun works
old quail
u find out very bad things
true jackal
also I hear people talking about one of the IAGs being real good, is it not the agri?
frank ether
and degrades as you continue to fire
I think the part I take issue with is that quickdraw precision weapons just make all the effort in mastering bursting null
terse idol
also I hear people talking about one of the IAGs being real good, is it not the ...
Columnus iag
Still preeettyy good
true jackal
the fastest one right? (not up to date on the new names of things)
frank ether
like I dont think we fix this dilemma by nerfing or nuking dumdum out of the game
we could buff the burst fire related blessings sure
old quail
like I dont think we fix this dilemma by nerfing or nuking dumdum out of the gam...
yeah wrt gunplay it's a very fundamental systems issue
it also means you don't have as many dials to turn with gun handling because if you set values too high you get utterly awful-to-use handling because the system, as a very angry crustacean puts it, has been designed to make the player experience as miserable as possible in every way
frank ether
if only we had a system that let us tune weapon handling
cough cough weapon customization
old quail
laspistol is the embodiment of a lot of problems but the most damning one is that it's very mobile and doesn't care about things like 'spread' or 'recoil' because u basically just swap, hipfire bad guys, crit like 3 times and problem is solved
frank ether
obese tuna...
dense light
I feel like a fucking NPC for my teammates on Havoc with hardened skin because I whittle away the enemies health with my Lucius flashlight (which almost always crits because my talents are intensively critical based) only for the revolver Zealot to one tap the viagra-skinned scab gunner that doesn't give a fuck I've been lighting him up for 10 solar cycles
frank ether
laspistol is the embodiment of a lot of problems but the most damning one is tha...
laspistol is like a trolley problem where you either hit headshots, or you hit crits, or you do no damage
dense light
It's just silly man - I wanna progress, but I don't want to be playing as a Zealot on my Vet because guns can only light enemies on fire outside of the rare occasion there's a non-erect-skinned NPC Trapper that spawned
old quail
laspistol is the embodiment of a lot of problems but the most damning one is tha...
(and then they made one with a stronger recoil impulse but for some reason the recoil is fucking DIAGONAL)
static nexus
What're the best blessings for helbore?
old quail
laspistol is like a trolley problem where you either hit headshots, or you hit c...
it is in almost all ways the knife of ranged weapons
frank ether
it is in almost all ways the knife of ranged weapons
yeah, funnily enough knife also has a ton of problems for the game
old quail
knife at least gets the coolest way to fight individual ragers in the game
frank ether
yeah it feels good to pick ragers with it
old quail
block-trading a push attack into special punch is so sick i wish ragers didn't spawn in herds
true jackal
knife feels like it has the issues that axes have, or rather it should have them, in that its a single taret weapon in a horde shooter, but it can clear decently and still does strong single target
dense light
What're the best blessings for helbore?
For Havoc Hardened Skin Run and Hide IV is really good, coupled especially with Don't Even Bother IV. Run and Hide helps to proc Don't Even Bother quicker. For Perks I usually run Headshots Don't Matter which gives you a +20% to finger numbness, and Why Do I Even Have a Gun that adds +20% to your swap weapon speed
terse idol
I feel like a fucking NPC for my teammates on Havoc with hardened skin because I...
What are you running?
terse idol
What're the best blessings for helbore?
In the guides
Weight of fire and surgical
The fastest firing one is
terse idol
Weight of fire and Armourbane or the cleave blessing
old quail
hell yeah
tall torrent
Hotshot is very funny but ultimately not very good
Hotshot makes your weakspot hits consider enemies as 0.5x mass
Including melee weapons
dense light
What are you running?
Exe Stance with Weapons Specialist - And every possible talent to give critical bonuses. Helbore is the fastest charge-shot one with all critical bonuses and Infernus; then bleed knife which is also all critical bonuses
tall torrent
Yea
terse idol
terse idol
Exe Stance with Weapons Specialist - And every possible talent to give critical ...
Why not
Voc and ws
On havoc?
tall torrent
It makes your melee weapons consume less cleave on weakspot hit
tall torrent
Exe Stance with Weapons Specialist - And every possible talent to give critical ...
Don’t build Helbore with infernus
Better yet, don’t take a Helbore into hardened modifier
You really should build according to the modifiers in havoc
terse idol
Also infernus hasn't been too good for helbore as of late
Leas
Imo
Contending against surgical
Weight of fire is must take
dense light
Left to right dance because I want to be able to actually see what I'm shooting + increased range damage. But yeah I've been theorycrafting the shit out of loadouts between bolter, bolt pistol, helbore, and now I'm about to try laspistol.
Honestly don't know if turning down my graphics will help me see more clearly or not, but I'd rather not have the game look like goddamn Roblox just so I can play well
cyan verge
just wait until path figures it all out and then listen to what he says
dense light
lol no
Where's the fun in playing how someone else tells you how to play? Advice is great, but this isn't a recipe.
cyan verge
it is when it comes to havoc
dense light
People said that about Maelstrom, and Auric, and Damnation, and Heresy.
terse idol
Honestly don't know if turning down my graphics will help me see more clearly or...
Its the issue tha
tame lodge
What're the best blessings for helbore?
Surgical Weight of Fire
terse idol
You're trying to play minimum graphics on the hardest difficulty
I'm sorry
If you have to do the dance from left to right
Just to see bette
It might be time to upgrad
Voc is like
Bis
For havoc
cyan verge
yeah I can't see using infiltrate or exe
dense light
My settings are all maxed out, the difficulty is there's too much that I'm seeing that I can't distinguish the little scab stalker that just flurried my ass
cyan verge
infiltrate - where you are going to go? to die, probably?
exe - you probably don't need, more DPS, you need to not die
huddle in the psyker bubble and let the chorus keep you alive
terse idol
Infil i could see but you're still working so closely with your team its like
Kinda killing your team?
dense light
Maybe I'm just getting fucking old and suck at games now idk lmao. I wanna see how this'll go with laspistol
terse idol
Welp ghost
cyan verge
infiltrate will work great until it runs out and then every gunner will autoaim in your direction yell 'crudux cruo!' and instagib you
steep grail
infiltrate you just gotta be VERY good at using
cyan verge
please use VoC in havoc
terse idol
I can't see using anything else
dense light
Bistol I've tried and had a miserable time. More than half a mag into viagra-skinned scab gunner? No thanks.
steep grail
I can't see using anything else
this applies to normal game too not just havoc
cyan verge
if you are on damnation you can bring any damn thing you want idc
as long as you're good it'll probably work
true jackal
Infil i could see but you're still working so closely with your team its like
I can see infil to use as a clutch tool
but uh
cyan verge
except the shredder
true jackal
that's not an ideal thing to want to bring all the time
terse idol
this applies to normal game too not just havoc
Eh
cyan verge
gunners are so on-point I can imagine even if you try and pick up a zealot so they can chorus they might not have time after they are revived to use it before they instantly get shot to death by gunners lol
steep grail
i don't want an exe lasgun vet in my auric maelstroms
cyan verge
i don't want an exe lasgun vet in my auric maelstroms
I could accept it, just don't be bad tbh
steep grail
the guardsman rp is funny
dense light
Matched on Havoc with a infil-shotgun vet last match and guy just ducked away the whole time. Shit was brutal but at least he popped it to pick us up whenever we needed it
steep grail
but it is not very fun to play with
terse idol
I'm in my Kriegsmen larp rn
How do you knooow
If you're a vet already and you're running voc
You already got it
Double + voc is braindead easy
If someone runs exe and you run voc you won't know the impact
cyan verge
yeah you are a vet right?
terse idol
besides uh maybe feeling less gunners
terse idol
I also haven't played havoc yet lmao
cyan verge
yeah I am not a fan
cyan verge
I am just going to hit 25 to get my legendary pants
terse idol
Ilas
cyan verge
and then I will help newbies grind it
terse idol
Its not weaves come on
cyan verge
and then ima stop
cyan verge
I think the mods they chose, are like, O K except I don't think I like the global enemy buffs
and I don't like pus skin
pus skin isn't fun to play around
I melee all the time but in combination with the gunner buffs and such it's seriously not fun to deal with
terse idol
thats the funny thing
It literally isn't though
Itsnjust so weird to compare them
Because weaves you got your weaves weapon
cyan verge
didn't play weaves so idk
cyan verge
imo personally I would have made it so
terse idol
Weaves is 100% different
cyan verge
every single itemized buff to enemies would be its own modifier
so there'd be like 150 modifiers
and the game can pick more and more from this list, based on a 'cost' list, that it assigns to missions
steep grail
ideally they copy more from vt2's homework and give us chaos wastes in this game
that'd be awesome
cyan verge
I think it'd be good if you could get missions then, where like, enemies have way more HP but have the same base stats otherwise, or like have massively increased attack speed but still base health
it'd add more variety and it'd make things, more fair since it's less arbitrarily like oh enemies just, take 50% less damage, lol
on top of having more HP
true jackal
rogue like in a spacehulk or the depths of tertium would go crazy
cyan verge
they'd have to put in some work to make that fit but that would be a fun gamemode probably
steep grail
i wish havoc got more interesting earlier on
cyan verge
one of the advantages of 'havoc' is they probably didn't need to create many new assets to fill it out...
it's all reused levels, a roguelike mode would necessitate kinda taking apart all the maps and turning them into tiles so you can randomly put them together
and it'd be a lot of work
it would be sweet
but it'd never happen
terse idol
ideally they copy more from vt2's homework and give us chaos wastes in this game
That will be
Years
Me as I'm a part poope
I DONT GO TO PARTIE
cyan verge
but yeah imagine like going up an elevator on throneside and being at the vigil oblivium finale
that'd be cool
cyan verge
... is that what chaos wastes is
steep grail
that way it might actually be somewhat comparable to vermintide
terse idol
Uh
Chaos wastes is a roguelite mode where you start with nothing but your base talents
true jackal
... is that what chaos wastes is
ish, it has it's own maps
terse idol
And through your run you get currency and buy new weapons and perks
Yeah
Single runs can last an hour or more
vernal sundial
yall prefer infernus + headhunter or infernus + dumdum for recon?
true jackal
funni fire(idk either)
hollow ibex
i have never understood the appeal
Better at range and against monsters
Helps save ammo
Good against bulwarks
steep grail
why am i saving ammo on a recon
hollow ibex
Because you’re in havoc and your ammo pickups are 15 percent of base
cyan verge
true...
hollow ibex
Or you’re playing gunker and want to be a good teammate 
vernal sundial
i like being ammo efficient even on efficient guns cause i like to be the guy who takes next to 0 pickups
steep grail
if i'm playing gunker i've already left the team behind
hollow ibex
Gunkers 🤝 Luggers
Hoovering up all the ammo on the map
true jackal
that one rumbler gunlugger in a havok
hollow ibex
Idk I usually find them both to be shit for the amount of ammo they take
steep grail
if a good gunker is in my lobby they can take all the ammo they want
hollow ibex
if a good gunker is in my lobby they can take all the ammo they want
Yes but big if
vernal sundial
before patch i enjoyed gunker w ds4, stay in melee 90% of the game and only use columnus for rager packs monsters or if something really needed to just die
think i barely needed pickups if any at all
steep grail
gunker is op enough to where im fine with that
vernal sundial
now enough cool weapons are out and im good enough at the game as to where i can use whatever i find fun irregardless of how good it is
ds begone
hollow ibex
i see good gunkers ALL the time
Ah that’s where all the good gunkers went
steep grail
they usually have that one mod that lets you replay past maelstroms
remote sonnet
Grenadier Vet is just a psyker with slightly longer countdown.
How do you think the guy can turn invisible? He was using the psychic to erase his presence from the enemy mind, like Corvus and the Raven Guard.
cyan verge
it's everyone's responsibility to not use too much ammo, and to practice, not using too much ammo...
terse idol
Or you’re playing gunker and want to be a good teammate <:KEKW_ogryn:10220771883...
Roll it back
I dunno like
If you're looking ti be ammo efficient
why shoot at a monster
With a recon
Unless you're running unyielding
That sounds kinda ba
terse idol
I don't even know the unyielding mod for recons
tall torrent
I don't even know the unyielding mod for recons
Not good
terse idol
Ew
broken spade
I think you generally just want to melee bosses in havoc to save ammo
loud belfry
getting only 19 bullets out of an ammo tin when I normally get 76 is wild
good thing psykers and ammo regenerative vets exist
broken spade
there isn't even a "i'm blowing ammo to nuke it for an emergency" justification a lot of the time.
I don't think you can nuke the bosses. better off dumping on everything around the boss
hollow ibex
*why shoot at a monster*
Stack burn on it and stop. You’re not required to shoot at it the entire time lol
hollow ibex
It is
hollow ibex
I like letting things burn to death 😊
true jackal
dots are generally pretty good vs unyielding iirc
tall torrent
I think you generally just want to melee bosses in havoc to save ammo
Yes, only exception is BoN (situational)
tall torrent
dots are generally pretty good vs unyielding iirc
Mainly burn is good vs unyielding
Bleed is not very high unyielding damage (stacks drop too fast)
cyan verge
beast of nurgle is somewhat annoying to melee sometimes
hollow ibex
It’s pretty nice being able to burn out bulwarks even when their shield is up
true jackal
I see
night sparrow
anyone have a link to a stagger calculator? trying to figure out what bps i need for the shock maul
broken spade
Yes, only exception is BoN (situational)
Yeah i can imagine that if you're desperate. Would kill your entire ammo supply though.
A lot of the time i see someone just bubble cheese the bon and wack it over and over if that's available
pastel yew
beast of nurgle is somewhat annoying to melee sometimes
I hate that his tail slaps you ifyou're behind him
rustic kite
A little someone gave me an idea for a commando build for a high mobility build would the Revolver or Lazpistol be best
tall torrent
Yeah i can imagine that if you're desperate. Would kill your entire ammo supply ...
Recon can do it with less ammo strain
pastel yew
it makes meleeing that boss very annoying
tall torrent
Recon shock trooper + infernus
true jackal
they aren't % based
broken spade
they're not but dots are good
pastel yew
because max bleed stacks does different amounts in different enemies it seems
true jackal
it's just a set number based on the enemies health type
pastel yew
ahhh gross
tall torrent
because max bleed stacks does different amounts in different enemies it seems
Different ADM
pastel yew
why do it like that boowomp
rustic kite
Does terrifying blaze work when getting a melee kill?
tall torrent
What’s terrifying blaze
rustic kite
Or is it exclusive for that weapon
pastel yew
sounds like a psyker thing
true jackal
terrifying barrage I assume
rustic kite
Oh yea
tall torrent
Terrifying barrage is dogshit do not run that ever
rustic kite
I just need the supress for penance
pastel yew
mmh
true jackal
you supress enemies directly around you after kills
pastel yew
run the uhh
rustic kite
what even do it do
The stun from shooting around enemies
pastel yew
autopistol lmao
true jackal
the issue is what enemies can be surpressed, most the ones that can be supressed you aren't gonna be in melee range with
pastel yew
doesnt that have mad suppression
tall torrent
I just need the supress for penance
The infiltrate penance only counts suppression by infiltrate
Unless you mean ogryn penance
rustic kite
The infiltrate penance only counts suppression by infiltrate
Oh so is it like the suppression from.when you exit infiltrate?
tall torrent
the issue is what enemies can be surpressed, most the ones that can be supressed...
Groaners
Scab shooters
Scab stalkers
Dreg stalkers
Scab gunners
Dreg gunners
Reapers
That’s it
tall torrent
Oh so is it like the suppression from.when you exit infiltrate?
Yes
true jackal
it would suck if they couldn't
pastel yew
are reapers... that bad?
stuck gorge
isnt reaper supression when theyre covering their face with their elbow?
true jackal
can be
pastel yew
they fuck you up if you have no toughness I think
but idk I've never found them to be an issue really
rustic kite
Mhm and what pistol should i use for my fast paced Infil build Lazpistol, Revolver or Boltpistol
charred pulsar
What is the dump stat for combat blade?
pastel yew
they're just a gunner with a taller body
tall torrent
didnt know reapers could be suppressed
Don’t worry abt it too much because
In normal games they die before they get to shoot u
In havoc you die before you get to suppress them
And havoc’s cranial corruption modifier makes infected enemies suppression-immune
true jackal
they shred real hard now, esp on havok
stuck gorge
they're just a gunner with a taller body
the main problem from them is being an ogryn so they are staggered less
pastel yew
boltpistol ... that things goated
rustic kite
Mhm and what pistol should i use for my fast paced Infil build Lazpistol, Revolv...
Oh or shredder
stuck gorge
also they could move around before the update that made every gunner move when firing
true jackal
mainly they either get supressed or killed before they are an issue
pastel yew
Don’t worry abt it too much because
In normal games they die before they get to ...
suppression immunity, ogryns cryinh
honestly thats a lame condition
tall torrent
suppression immunity, ogryns cryinh
Shield stocks are so high rn
pastel yew
whats got em so good?
true jackal
gunners and shooters in havok
pastel yew
the main problem from them is being an ogryn so they are staggered less
yeah but they're tall and their heads huge so just
bap bap
tall torrent
whats got em so good?
The fact that you can instantly die from ranged enemies
pastel yew
mmh I see
rustic kite
Is there a website eith all the gun stats?
hearty panther
I forgot what it was like to utterly shit my pants at the sound of a shotgun cocking
true jackal
with reduced toughness and no toughness gate, they can eat you alive
pastel yew
I'm gonna dislike playing around them but
I suppose I dislike beng dead more
are there any havoc conditions that increase cooldown ?
tall torrent
I forgot what it was like to utterly shit my pants at the sound of a shotgun coc...
Turn around corner
16 shotgunners cocking their gun to blast you down in 0.2s
smoke value
true jackal
"back in my day" on launch I think shotgunners ignored the toughness gate anyway, they where a fucking menace
stuck gorge
Is there a website eith all the gun stats?
check pins for each class and it generally has some guides for that stuff
pastel yew
that feels like a sure fire way to make the game harder
gameslantern has all the stats but
hearty panther
good thing shotgunners dunno how to slam fire
pastel yew
it's not going to be very useful to the average player tbh
stuck gorge
good thing shotgunners dunno how to slam fire
the day this happens is the day atoma falls...
pastel yew
shooters being goated opens up more options for being good though
weapons that are generally good at clear become a nicer option
as before you just took whatever one taped elites
tall torrent
Zealot havoc meta is DS4 + flamer
pastel yew
ds4 meta? who could have seen this coming
rustic kite
check pins for each class and it generally has some guides for that stuff
Thank you kindly
pastel yew
I love that they buffed the thammer inthe same patch they added that to zealot
tall torrent
Veteran havoc meta is axe + plasma/laspistol/infantry lasgun
pastel yew
thammer buffs, also here's an infinitely better weapon
true jackal
at least you take more interesting abilities in it
pastel yew
infantry lasgun being meta is baller
tall torrent
thammer buffs, also here's an infinitely better weapon
The only downside is that DS4 is hard countered by Moebian 21st modifier
serene sage
is havoc 40 that difficult?
pastel yew
thats what you got the flamer for I guess
pastel yew
is havoc 40 that difficult?
I'd hope so
rustic kite
infantry lasgun being meta is baller
If chainsword becomes meta can we get cadia back :D
serene sage
I only have time to climb to 18 so far
tall torrent
is havoc 40 that difficult?
Basically build towards a role and play as a team
pastel yew
chainsaw clears p good
tall torrent
Specialization is key
pastel yew
it just.. doesnt have much else goin for it 
pastel yew
Basically build towards a role and play as a team
sort of problematic in a game that has made all classes whatever
I guess you just need premade stacks if its that bad
serene sage
does it feel somehow easier? cause I swear enemies health feels lower.
pastel yew
what havoc level are you
ive heard it starts at malice
if you do normal maelstrom you start at 1
if you do the auric one you start at 16?
broken spade
1-10 is malice i think
serene sage
I started at 16
tall torrent
1-10 is malice
11-20 is heresy
21-30 is damnation
serene sage
okay that makes sense
pastel yew
thats a lot of grind to get to new harder content...
thats a lot of using the bad party finder
steep grail
yes exactly
serene sage
why would they do that... I only play auric
steep grail
its why havoc is kind of in a poor state
serene sage
and they dont keep track of that?
pastel yew
why would they do that... I only play auric
because new content has to appeal to all skill groups
serene sage
don't we have achievement for that
pastel yew
even though theyve continuously made the game easier at the cost of high skill players
high skill players finally get what they want and its gated behind heresy grind and a shit group finder
serene sage
because new content has to appeal to all skill groups
no I mean they can just bump me up to level 20
terse idol
Wtf! I beat a auric yesterday with my friend and we didn't get havoc
serene sage
so I don't have to grind the first few levels
terse idol
Dukane was still like "you are bitches still"
pastel yew
no I mean they can just bump me up to level 20
you've only beaten auric maelstrom, clearly not ready for damnation
serene sage
you've only beaten auric maelstrom, clearly not ready for damnation
you are so right. foolish me.
pastel yew
classic fatshark fashion tho
get hyped for thing
thing releases bad
thing will be good in a few months
serene sage
I mean it's not a big issue but like why put people through the extra hoop
pastel yew
the extra hoops are enough to make me not really want to do it
serene sage
yeah especially with the wierd match making
fiery raft
yo
pastel yew
why not just separate let you quickplay into games within your tier
fiery raft
so, im doing kind of a generic shout build
ill send a ss
im just curious, what's a good weaponf or it?
serene sage
again, not a big thing but some of the decisions are so wierd
pastel yew
I mean shout doesnt really combo with any weapon per se, you'll get the most value out of it with close range stuff
fiery raft
but it just feels like a peashooter
pastel yew
there are some weapons that do damage based on stagger but
fiery raft
which ig is the point
serene sage
generic shout can just take PS and Plasma
fiery raft
i see
pastel yew
I have no idea what the vraks mk5 is
fiery raft
I have no idea what the vraks mk5 is
infantry autogun
pastel yew
they changed all the names
serene sage
and be the most vanilla player
pastel yew
yeah but theres three of them
serene sage
again nothing with that though
pastel yew
is the new vraks the old columnus?
fiery raft
i think so
pastel yew
I mean seems fine
fiery raft
generic shout can just take PS and Plasma
what's ps?
pastel yew
powersword
fiery raft
oh right
fiery raft
man i have a 60 mobi ps and i wish it was cleave targets
pastel yew
though yeah I mean any build fits shout
because every build takes the node before shout
serene sage
if you want something slightly different but not too different, take combat axe and bolter
pastel yew
man i have a 60 mobi ps and i wish it was cleave targets
get brutal momentum on it
steep grail
power sword is gross
pastel yew
mk6 power sword is fun
steep grail
icky weapon
fiery raft
get brutal momentum on it
why that
steep grail
i like dodging too much
fiery raft
?
pastel yew
why that
ignores enemy hit mass, basically if you one shot a target it cleaves to the next
it works out as more cleave than the cleave blessings
fiery raft
ignores enemy hit mass, basically if you one shot a target it cleaves to the nex...
but i have the God shovel
tall torrent
no I mean they can just bump me up to level 20
Join like a higher rank team and it’ll bump ur clearance up there
But your own assignment will stay at the given rank unless u beat it (goes up by 1) or reset next week
pastel yew
but the cleave blessings are betting in havoc maybe?
serene sage
shouldn't you be dodging more on the PS anyway cause you lose charge if you get hit?
steep grail
but i have the God shovel
uncanny is not a god blessing
pastel yew
Join like a higher rank team and it’ll bump ur clearance up there
But your own a...
hmmm hmm thats not so bad
pastel yew
could just piggy back my way into good games
steep grail
not really,
wooden oar
What's a good revolver build for Havoc?
fiery raft
what do you htink?
steep grail
most builds that benefit from uncanny can just be made better somewhere in the tree
pastel yew
I think just objective best blessings on the power sword are power cycler and brutal momentum
its one of those unfortunate weapons with 0 fun decision making
serene sage
Join like a higher rank team and it’ll bump ur clearance up there
But your own a...
I mean the funny thing is I have a really good group of people, stack of 4
pastel yew
like the rashad
tall torrent
What's a good revolver build for Havoc?
You start by not taking a revolver into havoc (it loses like every breakpoint it has)
fiery raft
its one of those unfortunate weapons with 0 fun decision making
well im talking sapper shov here
fiery raft
i like sapper shovel
serene sage
and we have to grind, so we have to jump the hoop
tall torrent
I think just objective best blessings on the power sword are power cycler and br...
Power cycler + brutal momentum/sunder
pastel yew
uncanny is usually good
tall torrent
Sunder has uses
pastel yew
sunder for havoc?
quiet valley
Laspistol MK X is havoc 40 carry, Plasma can suck it
tall torrent
well im talking sapper shov here
Uncanny is best blessing for shovel
narrow frost
Laspistol MK X is havoc 40 carry, Plasma can suck it
hop on
tall torrent
It’s not “required” on other weapons that has uncanny available
wooden oar
You start by not taking a revolver into havoc (it loses like every breakpoint it...
Fair. Haven't tried it in havoc yet was curious however. What guns would you recommend most? I've ran infantry lasgun till 33 so far.
steep grail
Uncanny is best blessing for shovel
I really don't believe you
narrow frost
saldar wants havoc 40 to show neo
quiet valley
You only need uncanny on shovel if you have no armor solution
pastel yew
I really don't believe you
why wouldnt it be? uncanny is always good
proven cargo
Scabs get the fuck on, we have to speedrun I need my havoc skins
pastel yew
unless you're running the like.. flip to one shot with thrust I have no idea
fiery raft
You only need uncanny on shovel if you have no armor solution
i mean im using autogun
so probably
quiet valley
saldar wants havoc 40 to show neo
I’m stuck away rn, that’s why I’m shitposting in vet chat
true jackal
100% rending is fair;y hard to beat, esp since they made over 100% give a damage bonus or w/e
steep grail
because like I said uncanny's niche can usually be fulfilled somewhere in the tree
pastel yew
100% rending is fair;y hard to beat, esp since they made over 100% give a damage...
they did what..
is that true
fiery raft
this is the vraks
pastel yew
ahh yeah vraks is the old columnus
quiet valley
Skullcrusher, Decimator shits on hordes
steep grail
it also depends on what ranged weapon you're pairing with the shovel too I suppose
fiery raft
yeah, this thing sucks balls and weenie at killing crushers and the like
so i think uncanny shovel could work
pastel yew
Weapon name changes my beloathed
yeah I still have no idea why they even did it
steep grail
the columnus?
pastel yew
its just confusing
steep grail
just take onslaught
pastel yew
onslaught is trash
steep grail
lol
pastel yew
waste of ammo
tall torrent
If u gotta take onslaught to kill crushers, u might as well take uncanny
pastel yew
literally waste bullets, to be able to kill an enemy with more bullets
when you could run kraks or a melee weapon
quiet valley
^
true jackal
they did what..
as far as I am aware it's like a 4% rending for 1 % damage or something, they like completely redid how rending and brittleness works at one point and I am not super up to date on it
pastel yew
I might be too much of an ammo goblin and its making me sleep on it but onslaught is pretty garbage
quiet valley
Onslaught trash on anything except recon las, and even so I’d never run it
pastel yew
as far as I am aware it's like a 4% rending for 1 % damage or something, they li...
if thats true I hate it
steep grail
I might be too much of an ammo goblin and its making me sleep on it but onslaugh...
I think you're a bit of an ammo goblin for this
pastel yew
I mean it wont make much difference usually I'd imagine but
steep grail
onslaught has not once given me ammo trouble
pastel yew
I think you're a bit of an ammo goblin for this
its also just slow time to kill though
tall torrent
they did what..
pastel yew
why would I care about brittleness for everyone if I'm one shotting the enemy
terse idol
People build for their own breakpoint
pastel yew
I dont need them to assist
pastel yew
ty, time to read
quiet valley
<@195524192140132353>
Close but swap 5% small crit to 10% crit for topped ammo
narrow frost
forgot
terse idol
Unless your team is literally not building their breakpoints it's actually not useful
Like
pastel yew
shoot an enemy 16 times to get... 40%? rending
terse idol
You run the rending talent on your recon las because it's for you
quiet valley
Building brittleness only good on trauma imo, maybe can opener
terse idol
You're using it to get a shorter time to kill
steep grail
I don't actually path down to onslaught with a recon las
terse idol
Not that it'll help your team
true jackal
can openner is mainly for you as well tbh
terse idol
Thats crazy
tall torrent
quiet valley
Onslaught pathing is shit too
tall torrent
Onslaught
steep grail
I was saying in the first place that onslaught makes columnus not entirely worthless against armor
terse idol
I mean urgh
pastel yew
I mean I agree that it does what its meant to do
I just dont think what it does is very good
terse idol
I'm building the recon on the perspective of choosing no keystones
And giving full support to the recon
quiet valley
You should build to your weapon strengths, not cope with onslaught
terse idol
With onslaught
pastel yew
if you are deadset on shooting armor with the columnus then yeah take it
terse idol
Its not cope?
pastel yew
there are just other ways
terse idol
Tf
pastel yew
You should build to your weapon strengths, not cope with onslaught
my view exactly
terse idol
Yes I'm building to my weapon strength
pastel yew
you have 3 bits of kit
make them specialists so you have a best in class at everything
terse idol
It has fast firing and can stack onslaught immediately
steep grail
if I take recon I'm taking marksman's focus 90% of the time
pastel yew
It has fast firing and can stack onslaught immediately
spending talent points that could be going elsewhere
quiet valley
If your ranged is bad at armor, you have kraks or melee option
pastel yew
by just meleeing them or krak
steep grail
I refuse to be told otherwise this keystone is actually really good
fiery raft
im tesitng out the folding shovel
terse idol
Purely
fiery raft
why is the folding part kind of goated??
pastel yew
if you want to never use melee though then yeah fairs
terse idol
Because I'm building the entire weapon around it's strengths
Uh
Alot of the talents you choos
For recon
steep grail
is the push attack crit oneshot still a thing with power sword
terse idol
Are applicable for mele
steep grail
is the push attack crit oneshot still a thing with power sword
on crushers
pastel yew
is the push attack crit oneshot still a thing with power sword
I assume you mean the mk 6
yeah
tbf I dont think thats THAT degenerate
terse idol
This is very weird to imply that me choosing talents don't also apply to everything else on the weapon i use
steep grail
tbf I dont think thats THAT degenerate
it is not
pastel yew
it's good though
terse idol
Bradley come on man
quiet valley
I love the MKIII folding shovel but honestly uncanny standard nearly does the same with no mobility penalty with uncanny
steep grail
power sword is generally a degen weapon though imo
pastel yew
This is very weird to imply that me choosing talents don't also apply to everyth...
i just think the talents garbage
like
fiery raft
terse idol
For most weapons
fiery raft
this is the talent tree i got going
terse idol
For the fucking recon
fiery raft
kind of basic
pastel yew
for all weapons?
umbral scaffold
Is Plasma+Dueling sword+Shrapnel grenades a good combo?
pastel yew
your primary weapon is a stabber
steep grail
Is Plasma+Dueling sword+Shrapnel grenades a good combo?
best possible combo
tall torrent
Vraks V wants that 5% crit chance node
terse idol
Keystoneless recon is valid
quiet valley
Is Plasma+Dueling sword+Shrapnel grenades a good combo?
Meta
fiery raft
Vraks V wants that 5% crit chance node
you think so?
steep grail
plasma dueling sword is Uber meta
clever hedge
Is Plasma+Dueling sword+Shrapnel grenades a good combo?
Yes
pastel yew
Keystoneless recon is valid
BRO DONT TELL ME
fiery raft
i guess that makes sense actually
terse idol
I'm dropping it to take every single talent for the recon
tall torrent
you think so?
Yea
High finesse scaling, 3-crit string
terse idol
Bro tf
terse idol
I mean
fiery raft
Yea
High finesse scaling, 3-crit string
dropping target down seems worth, what do u think?
terse idol
They're fine
umbral scaffold
I am trying to defeat the twins with that and i do so much damage, but my mates fail to stay alive or do some horde clearing
steep grail
the marksman focus keystone is the best possible support you can get for the recon
I am not joking
tall torrent
dropping target down seems worth, what do u think?
Given that you’re not using a breakpoint weapon I wouldn’t even take focus target to start with tbh