and some impact are just too much like axes
#veteran-class
manic moon
axes with and without BM are 2 total different weapons
in that regard tacaxes are much more interesting
hearty panther
most of the player base still struggles at heresy and it's not because they aren't min-maxing their gear, it's because they suck at fundamentals or they're playing with a TV in the background and a twitch stream on the other monitor while hanging out in a discord call and their own personal music playing
ie. they dont fucken care, they arent treating this like a profession and frankly, more power to them
cant fucken believe my manager gave me a clopen
i know he's new but some shit should just be fucking obvious
umbral scaffold
A what
hearty panther
clopen, close open
umbral scaffold
Im not native to english
hearty panther
you close the store at night, and then you get to come back nice and early to open it again
its a fantastic way to get murdered by your staff
umbral scaffold
its a fantastic way to get murdered by your staff
So a shift tjat start a little before closing then you go home and then go reopen the store ? Sounds like ass for anyone who wants to sleep
hearty panther
yep
or do anything that isnt thinking about work for 24 straight hours minimum
i just got home, still have to eat, but im already late going to bed to wake up early for tomorrow
isnt that nice
umbral scaffold
Why does that shit exists
hearty panther
in real countries it doesnt
sadly north america is a massive cuck for industry
i however am not, and am only seeing it through because of circumstances
what was i saving up for
rain badger
Disappointment 
austere mica
Oneshot them
austere mica
Or pull your gun
unborn ridge
nah i wanna do it melee
tropic abyss
it's real simple
hit them till they die while not getting hit
do that and you're golden
unborn ridge
with the rashad you can stunlock them it seems
severe gale
without getting hit
one shot all of them
or dodge backwards
and special to stagger
n heavy spam
tropic abyss
you can poke them with the mk I shovel, that's a guaranteed stagger on everything if you hit the head
severe gale
with the rashad you can stunlock them it seems
yah, rashad push attack will stagger 3
tropic abyss
Then follow up with heavy attacks to keep the stagger
tropic abyss
with the sword
tropic abyss
which sword are you using?
tall torrent
yah, rashad push attack will stagger 3
2 on first hit (no headtaker stacks)
So it’s not that easy to do
clear lantern
hit them till they die while not getting hit
unborn ridge
SP can break combo on 1 rager
true
xd
but its good enough
if u got a pack of 3
oneshot the first
stagger the second dodge the third oneshot stagger the third and oneshot them both
tall torrent
oneshot the first
This needs FotF or crit or high headtaker stacks
solemn niche
is it possible to parry the demonhost to victory with a devil claw sword ? I tried but I couldn't deal with the multi hit attack https://streamable.com/dkujfq
frank basin
impossible to possible
verbal burrow
is it possible to parry the demonhost to victory with a devil claw sword ? I tr...
It is possible to block it forever if the psyker draws aggro and there is a cute battle sister with Beacon of Purity to prevent everyone’s health bars from becoming purple solely because the psyker wants to show off
verbal burrow
Funny how this is still the same in 2024. Truly we honor the old traditions
pastel zealot
this was a frustrating run.
unborn moss
is havok mode out yet or is that a future patch
pastel zealot
future
atomic zephyr
man my old laspistol build doesnt seem nearly as potent next to bolt pistol now
ocean moat
this was a frustrating run.
https://i.imgur.com/OQL9Fye.png
dayum
even my regular auric damnation runs dont get this many elites
orchid hemlock
I have ascended
slim terrace
looking for a good build to use with recon lasgun and rashad axe, or knife. is what i got rn okay?
orchid hemlock
u dont need survivalist on recon
tall torrent
looking for a good build to use with recon lasgun and rashad axe, or knife. is w...
Knife wants high talent investment
Recon also wants high investment
Pick one
orchid hemlock
yeah tbh i wouldn't take right side too deeply with recon
slim terrace
i think this build is what i was using with plasma gun and axe
tall torrent
Plasma + axe
slim terrace
Knife wants high talent investment
Recon also wants high investment
Pick one
i can get plenty of melee out of zealot, i guess ill do more gun play with vet
tall torrent
What’s SC
orchid hemlock
Complex
Without Onslaught: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c39a0c4-39ed-417d-bb6d-838991d8fb09/femboy-vet?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button
slim terrace
why doesnt it take a keystone, the first one?
orchid hemlock
onslaught costs too many points to get one
orchid hemlock
onslaught is very niche, you really only use it to deal with crushers
but u literally fire at everything and they basically have no armor
so on the MKXII it can be a bullet hose that shreds thru everything
u can do the same without it tbh, but u need to keep in mind that you will not be able to melt crushers
so the choice basically is
do you want a gun that can deal with 100% of targets decently
or a gun that can deal with 90% of targets but with more damage on those targets
lavish token
is it possible to parry the demonhost to victory with a devil claw sword ? I tr...
Yes
orchid hemlock
btw @tall torrent speaking on recons I have been trying out the XIV
I noticed something interesting. Since it has great cleave, deathspitter sorta turns it into a point A to point B line to whatever you are aiming it
50 poxwalkers in betwene u and the sniper? not a problem
tall torrent
btw <@366562874039992331> speaking on recons I have been trying out the XIV
I n...
Yea
orchid hemlock
20 ragers between u and the netter? not a problem
it feels like it is carving thru butter
tall torrent
20 ragers between u and the netter? not a problem
Still doesn’t go through ragers
Deathspitter is at most +32.5% strength
Base cleave is 3
You’re not getting over 4 cleave
pastel zealot
even my regular auric damnation runs dont get this many elites
this was heresy HISTG
orchid hemlock
Still doesn’t go through ragers
what about the other recons?
base cleave is 1.5
with max deathspitter what does it turn into?
tall torrent
with max deathspitter what does it turn into?
Below 2
orchid hemlock
I also noticed that XIV stacks deathspitter very easily
tall torrent
I also noticed that XIV stacks deathspitter very easily
Being able to hit 3 groaners & poxwalkers is nice
atomic zephyr
you guys ever have a round where you have to sit and process what happened for like ten mins
inland orchid
The “I can’t believe we survived that”, the “I can’t believe we didn’t survive that”, or a chaotic mix of both thoughts 
hollow ibex
the hab dreyko effect
junior grail
How is the Concentration blessing on Laspistol?
wild vortex
hab dreyko too
Average Hab Dreyko experience
atomic zephyr
real
wild vortex
Director be like "let me just dump a clown car of Ragers and gunners at the same time from opposite ends"
atomic zephyr
three tox flamers and two tox bombers at the same time 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
wild vortex
I used to think Hab Dreyko was the most dogshit layout that could turn into a fuckfest at the drop of a hat
Then Clandestinium Gloriana happened
Then Rolling Steel happened
lavish token
Dreyko is just boring
tall torrent
dreyko first event is just looting simulator
lavish token
Gloriana at least has 1 functional spawning event, rest of the map is completely dead
tall torrent
u can still cheese these events with like, smoke lol
wild vortex
At least with Gloriana, if you're gonna get fucked it's the first third of the mission
tall torrent
especially gloriana
wild vortex
Hab Dreyko you just get fucked in the end event or exfil, which suuuuuuucks
lavish token
End event isn’t that complex
tall torrent
it's just exfil, sometimes u get unlucky
wild vortex
End event isn’t that complex
You say that and I can agree with you theoretically, but it's really really hard sometimes with some teams / just me in general having an off day
lavish token
it's just exfil, sometimes u get unlucky
The last hundred dreyko games I have only wiped once at the exfil
tall torrent
it'd only be hard if ur team doesn't kill anything
lavish token
Pox burster got shot and it killed 4 people
tall torrent
The last hundred dreyko games I have only wiped once at the exfil
unlucky as in like, someone gets netted through bulwarks on the bridge
shit happens
but it just takes 1 person to run
wild vortex
Today I used the scoreboard mod to look at my game history and realized I don't lose as often as my brain thought I did
My Auric win rate is probably 50%+ on average
So I feel slightly better
tall torrent
remember to clear ur scoreboard history from time to time
otherwise it clogs ur memory
or u could turn off save scoreboard altogether
clear lantern
Funny how this is still the same in 2024. Truly we honor the old traditions
I was 8 when DOOM came out and played it one year later, so I dunno what that says about me.
I also own one of the worst ports ever officially released
slim terrace
so i need more diamantine, what do i put on this? Dumdum and deathspliter?
slim terrace
and for the perks?
faint beacon
so i need more diamantine, what do i put on this? Dumdum and deathspliter?
Flak Maniac
DumDum + Deathspitter/Infernus depending on what mark you use
slim terrace
oh, it has marks?
faint beacon
I know Headhunter + Infernus is another way to run them with like Shocktrooper
The talent
But Headhunter + DumDum is the best way to run it if you basically want infinite ammo
slim terrace
im doing this with it
tall torrent
so i need more diamantine, what do i put on this? Dumdum and deathspliter?
flak + crit chance/maniac
dum dum + deathspitter/infernus
verbal burrow
I was 8 when DOOM came out and played it one year later, so I dunno what that sa...
That you played video games
verbal burrow
im doing this with it
This would miss the brittleness on hit which the gun is so famed for. On the right side of the bottom right tree
narrow bay
Turbo Nuke Onslaught, Nerf It Into the Dirt
crude fiber
Dude hates a talent that only a handful of guns get worthwhile benefits from
slim terrace
This would miss the brittleness on hit which the gun is so famed for. On the rig...
too many points wasted trying to get it tho
it would be a sacrifice of my keystone or something else with are arguably more important.
earnest bone
it'd only be hard if ur team doesn't kill anything
which is normal for pub games when people barely get 300k dmg per match
hammerblow devastating strike dclaw 1
ugh
its still in my memory from like 2 days ago
earnest bone
Turbo Nuke Onslaught, Nerf It Into the Dirt
its already kinda niche, i'd say make it less taxing on points
jovial sluice
With Onslaught: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c9abbca-ad8e-424c-8780...
heyo what dis?
earnest bone
heyo what dis?
lasgun builds with the focus on ranged
jovial sluice
lasgun builds with the focus on ranged
the name of the build those
its certainly interesting
earnest bone
🏳️⚧️
jovial sluice
each to their own everyone has a choice to choose
and the free will to express whatever they want
people just need to be accepting :}
umbral scaffold
for rashad combat axe with brutal momentum want 10% weakspot damage and crit? or unarmored + flak
earnest bone
for rashad combat axe with brutal momentum want 10% weakspot damage and crit? or...
unarmoured + flak
or
flak + carapace
more niche picks are
flak + maniac
or elites + carapace
you can go with unarmoured + flak first
verbal burrow
too many points wasted trying to get it tho
That is why I dislike it too
slim terrace
That is why I dislike it too
yeah, it seems like a good perk, but the cost makes it not worth it IMO...like, either that or a keystone? really? im taking the keystone.
earnest bone
but they did rework vet talent tree like 3 times in a row, so i won't expect anything for at least another year
merry coral
I'm getting addicted to weapon specialist combat blade + zarona
grand perch
It's not, abandon all hope ye who shredder here
dry cloak
how to run shredder autopistol
Weapon specialist is you really want.
dry cloak
I'm getting addicted to weapon specialist combat blade + zarona
Try weapon specialist with combat axes and shotguns or braced autoguns
merry coral
Try weapon specialist with combat axes and shotguns or braced autoguns
Yeah I did that, I dunno I prefer the zippiness of the knife and revolver
Problem is that I tend to play like I was on my zealot
merry coral
Ye
green willow
y not
dry cloak
Because if you want to play zealot go play zealot
earnest bone
Dont play vet like a zealot
deep citrus
vet is like zealot if it was nothing like zealot
steep vault
@tall torrent it turns out the promo's optic on helbore is fake
I almost bought it lol
placid portal
<@366562874039992331> it turns out the promo's optic on helbore is fake
Damn
Kantrael sight bore
placid portal
it's got a flashlight too
Lmao the only flashlight krieg need is the flash of their lasgun
steep vault
Lmao the only flashlight krieg need is the flash of their lasgun
I'm guessing they tried to make a inf las skin and gave up midway
but didn't swap assets out fully
yo
just realised
lmfao
drifting oak
Is "toughness replenishment" only toughness from coherency, or from all sources of toughness (such as from perks)
jovial sluice
really weapon skins
steep vault
Is "toughness replenishment" only toughness from coherency, or from all sources ...
coherency only
it is garbage
don't take it
jovial sluice
i would have prefered a new outfit
jovial sluice
meh well as my grandmother always says no point in crying over spilt milk
even those fat shark gave the playerbase weapon skins only still support them :}
steep vault
anyone tried slaughterer on psword
fast sundial
i'm aware, but idc it is funny to have your lights start being lethal to crushers
steep vault
i'm aware, but idc it is funny to have your lights start being lethal to crusher...
I personally think it's better to hit crushers w/ the single target combo and not impact performances in other areas but you do you
:P
placid portal
Wait bruisers are 600 hp?
fast sundial
I personally think it's better to hit crushers w/ the single target combo and no...
oh it is but stamina is not always there
sure i can do it on the first but on subsequent crushers i may find it difficult
unless... stamina curios... focus target.. stamina regen..
steep vault
unless... stamina curios... focus target.. stamina regen..
I always run 2 toughness 1 stamina and 3 stam regen
idk how other people run it
fast sundial
i'm running 2 toughness 1 health atm
fast sundial
bit more leeway with various corruption sources
steep vault
bit more leeway with various corruption sources
do people get bothered by that?
idk actually
I've always just ran w/ less than one wound for the mission
fast sundial
do people get bothered by that?
i do, with bursters
steep vault
did fine
fast sundial
especially when i have teammates that like to explode them in my face
fast sundial
I personally think it's better to hit crushers w/ the single target combo and no...
oh and also the PA can reach crusher onetaps
for comedic value
drifting oak
PA?
steep vault
oh and also the PA can reach crusher onetaps
can't you hit it w/ agile engagement?
thorn lark
Because if you want to play zealot go play zealot
I play zealot like a vet, fight me
steep vault
I play zealot like a vet, fight me
fast sundial
can't you hit it w/ agile engagement?
perhaps but i do not like the talent anymore after the survivalist change
dry cloak
I play zealot like a vet, fight me
fast sundial
why?
needing ammo pickups because i wanted to improve my melee does nto sit right with me
steep vault
needing ammo pickups because i wanted to improve my melee does nto sit right wit...
I only need 1-2 small ammo tin per mission
what are you using?
fast sundial
currently vraks iag
steep vault
currently vraks iag
yea that's an ammo eater
sly orchid
Were you crutching on survivalist
fast sundial
and it is mostly reserved for specials/dreg ragers
fast sundial
Were you crutching on survivalist
i mean yeah with weapon spec revolver i was
just briefly shoot some idiot every 10s for melee attack speed
can't do that anymore, so i don't
fast sundial
I use close and kill every time
i used survivalist every time because of catch a breath
i have since stopped using catch a breath
even though it is really nice
fast sundial
it's not a bad thing to pick up ammo
steep vault
Its not a bad thing to pick up ammo
fast sundial
it is a bad thing to pick up ammo if the reason is that i'm wasting it to improve my melee
steep vault
it is a bad thing to pick up ammo if the reason is that i'm wasting it to improv...
you're not tho
it's just a singular kill for a flat 25% bonus
that runs you about what
less than a percent of your ammo on vraks IAG
thorn lark
last run Dorn was not the worst offender tbh, recon vet was
steep vault
last run Dorn was not the worst offender tbh, recon vet was
trust me
dorn had a game w/ 600% total ammo reserves taken
not including ammo boxes
steep vault
if i play bolter and nobody stops me.... yeah that can happen too 😄
he does it for fun lol
fast sundial
if i play bolter and nobody stops me.... yeah that can happen too 😄
are you the zealot that walks up to melee range and then uses bolter anyway
it was a bizarre sight
thorn lark
we played together with selfish, don't you remember?
yeah, i use the bolter in melee range too 😄
sly orchid
Dorn is the recon lmao
steep vault
Dorn is the recon lmao
dorn is not the recon
he just takes ammo to stop other people from hogging ammo
the math checks out I swear
jovial sluice
ummmm this may sound like a dumb idea but would fat shark ever introduce mic surpression into the darktide audio settings?
analog yacht
yeah but only for veteran
jovial sluice
that be funny if thats the case
but in all seriousness i hate hot micing but i hope fat shark introuduces mic surpression in the audio settings
merry coral
Is Lacerate really that subpar on vet combat knife btw ?
I'm using Riposte + Lacerate and I find the bleeding to be very useful on hordes, but I can see here and there that uncanny strike would be better
merry coral
jovial sluice
.....tentacles why did it have to be tentacles of all things.....
analog yacht
Is Lacerate really that subpar on vet combat knife btw ?
partially because vet has +30% finesse on weakspot hit that you're just dumping if you're spamming body hits
but also that like with riposte + reciprocity + desperado you have 75% crit with combat blade
which makes finesses really good
esp on a high finesse modifier weapon like knife
and then also just take fleshtearer bc 75% crit lol
jovial sluice
mutated horrors now i'll be the first to admit that is the stuff of nightmares
somber adder
Fighting 20 beasts of nurgle per match is funny though
serene bough
Is Lacerate really that subpar on vet combat knife btw ?
Lacerate very bad
Not a good idea to take a blessing that doesn't prioritize weakspots on a weapon meant to deal weakspot damage
placid portal
Fighting 20 beasts of nurgle per match is funny though
As if we are fighting a 1000 point army of chaos nurgle army
verbal burrow
yeah, it seems like a good perk, but the cost makes it not worth it IMO...like, ...
It requires very rigorous compromises
verbal burrow
Fighting 20 beasts of nurgle per match is funny though
It is if you have 2 vets with krak + demolitions + tinkerer + middle keystone + damage stim
At that point it is so overkill that it might as well be the GATE anime
jovial sluice
It is if you have 2 vets with krak + demolitions + tinkerer + middle keystone + ...
@verbal burrow are you a man of culture as well in terms of anime
verbal burrow
<@150629282199240704> are you a man of culture as well in terms of anime
That would depend entirely on your definition
merry oak
I noticed there's a new helbore skin with a holographic sight, does it actually have one in game?
jovial sluice
I noticed there's a new helbore skin with a holographic sight, does it actually ...
It’s a scam
merry oak
Lame
verbal burrow
Reminds me to break the helbore I was working on in half upon returning home
So glad that fog season has descended upon Holland. No more horizon sun attacks
wary rover
does anyone know if the opening salvo talent works with weapons specialist?
sounds like a good combo if it does
spice ferry
The new weapon skins suck.... They almost invisible...
pseudo fiber
Good camo then.
spice ferry
Good camo it is.
Is it worth 20 bucks?:)
formal pebble
Good camo it is.
Is it worth 20 bucks?:)
No
spice ferry
I want the robot skins...
tribal tangle
the skins are underwhelming for most of them
i dont think the bundles that bad tho considering what they normally charge for 1 set
still too much
formal pebble
you probably wouldn’t even notice them if you had it on
i’ll stick with my candy cane
odd sparrow
does anyone know if the opening salvo talent works with weapons specialist?
It should. Both buff the first shot
WS gives crit chance and opening shot gives % dmg.
So they go decently well together
The main drawback is that most weapons with opening salvo arent super fast to pull out
wary rover
Ty 👍
indigo lark
what are best blessings for power sword when paired with plasma gun?
power cycler/brutal momentum?
odd sparrow
power cycler+ brutal/sunder
brutal is more horde cleary. Sunder is slightly better at chopping down rager hordes
sleek garden
I tried to bring a tac axe as my backup last game and got mauled twice by two separate rager hordes
back to devils claw
Can't wait to shoot these disgusting freaks like barrels and ledge my teammates
uncut pebble
I tried to bring a tac axe as my backup last game and got mauled twice by two se...
You shouldn't be having issues dealing with groups of ragers when using taxe.
What model are you using?
sleek garden
I don't know
I have the game off right now
They don't kill super fast with what I'm bringing in talents though
if I was zealot I could just spam special attacks
uncut pebble
I'm just saying, I take out entire groups of gunners while they're shooting at me and ragers when they're trying to blender me without taking any damage while using taxe.
real shoal
I never tested it—does the alt attack do anything for you against ragers?
uncut pebble
Heavies stagger ragers on headshot.
sleek garden
I never tested it—does the alt attack do anything for you against ragers?
It staggers them
uncut pebble
I never tested it—does the alt attack do anything for you against ragers?
The special staggers just about everything.
sleek garden
Heavies stagger ragers on headshot.
Do they?
uncut pebble
Ragers don't even need to be hit in the head, iirc.
sleek garden
I did not know that
I thought they didn't have very good heavies for anything other than horde clear
real shoal
Cool. Kinda like DS, then. I always just VoC, shooty when there's more than one or two. Never really needed to test it.
uncut pebble
You can stop a mutant dead in his tracks with a headshot or stun a bulwark if you hit him in the back of the head after he swings.
sleek garden
I know that
uncut pebble
I thought they didn't have very good heavies for anything other than horde clear
Depends on the model.
uncut pebble
Mk2 has somewhat diagonal heavies that are decent for cc, mk7 is the opposite, having lights for cc.
Do not use mk4.
It smells bad and doesn't perform as well as its brothers in any situation.
tame lodge
Cool. Kinda like DS, then. I always just VoC, shooty when there's more than one ...
Technically speaking
DS is like Tac axe on steroids
Apart from the lack of bromentum
blissful pagoda
How is Focus target exactly working. Do i have to tag x Times or will the Stacks go up automaticly after i tagged the first time?
uncut pebble
Generate stacks passively, marking a target expends all stacks.
blissful pagoda
Or do the Stacks build up over time when i do not tag anything and if i tag i put all the Stacks i have on the target?
Thanks 👍
radiant chasm
Apart from the lack of bromentum
Tbf taxe is probably the worst BM user currently
Bad swing angles and struggling to hit BPs
junior hawk
guys why is 80% stability not needed on laspistol? not sure how exactly stability stat works
tawny badger
Does onslaught apply on revved chainweapon damage ticks or nah
uncut pebble
guys why is 80% stability not needed on laspistol? not sure how exactly stabilit...
Stability is recoil control and weapon sway. Laspistol has minimal of both.
uncut pebble
Does onslaught apply on revved chainweapon damage ticks or nah
Rev attacks should only count for 1 attack, iirc.
tawny badger
Rev attacks should only count for 1 attack, iirc.
uncut pebble
Yeah it's super cringe.
That's why you have to use chastise the way you do on zealout.
i.e. pop it after the initial impact.
sick marsh
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/veteran-squad-leader this build seems to be super popular on gameslantern, I presume it's quite good?
umbral scaffold
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/ve...
Not bad, seems generic shout plasma vet build, I would change chainsword to power sword or dueling sword tho
it's generic but second most powerful class build tho
tall torrent
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/ve...
It’s quite bad
Lots of wasted points
umbral scaffold
you can untick chrismatic, focus fire and target down tho, terrible choices
tall torrent
And it misses breakpoints
sick marsh
fair. I was looking into making infantry lasgun and chaisword together, any potential for that to work?
tall torrent
Any plasma build that doesn’t build for breakpoints is immediately bad
umbral scaffold
yeah, you can give free points to weakspots
orchid hemlock
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/ve...
Nope
real shoal
Focus Fire isn't good? Figured more damage was generically good for anyone. (I also only ever ran Focus Target for the penances, so whatever)
sick marsh
I just struggle for any class but Ogryn when doing builds and weapons because not every class has an ogrynomicron tier guide.
junior hawk
man veteran class has god tier guide
orchid hemlock
I just struggle for any class but Ogryn when doing builds and weapons because no...
Check pins my dude
sick marsh
which one is it?
slow spade
the first one
sick marsh
Guardsman's survivalist guide?
orchid hemlock
Focus Fire isn't good? Figured more damage was generically good for anyone. (I a...
Who said it wasn't good?
tall torrent
Focus Fire isn't good? Figured more damage was generically good for anyone. (I a...
Focused fire is bait because of how the keystone is designed to be played
real shoal
Is it the "kill this target" but then you get damage for everything else dissonance?
umbral scaffold
Focused fire is bait because of how the keystone is designed to be played
I like to take it with plasma
slow spade
the 8 stack node only has any real value if you take the other nodes
umbral scaffold
also its a nice team buff
tall torrent
Redirect fire is good, basically always take
tawny badger
this goober is about to give the most devious autopistol backshots
tall torrent
Target down is nice, comes down to point luxury
orchid hemlock
Oh focus fire, yeah focus fire is trash
I thought you meant the keystone for some reason
tall torrent
I like to take it with plasma
The 8 stacks subnode? Nah it’s bait
slow spade
its just the 8 stack node being "just" bad enough to not be worth it
if it was like 10 or something, it'd at least compete with the +5% damage nodes
orchid hemlock
U can take it with redirect fire, but it's just a 5% damage
tall torrent
if it was like 10 or something, it'd at least compete with the +5% damage nodes
Nah
If it was modifying stacks’ values then yes
Or changing the minimum refresh to higher base
Otherwise it’s still not worth
real shoal
Honestly, once I finish the penance, I'll probably just go back to weapon spec for the rest of my life.
umbral scaffold
The 8 stacks subnode? Nah it’s bait
The right one, I misplaced it probably
slow spade
going from 8 to 10 stacks would make Focused + Redirect to a +7.5% instead of +4.5% damage buff which isn't shit imo
tall torrent
The right one, I misplaced it probably
That’s redirect fire, it’s good
tall torrent
going from 8 to 10 stacks would make Focused + Redirect to a +7.5% instead of +4...
Nah, the problem is that it won’t rly contribute to breakpoints
So it’s still useless
slow spade
Nah, the problem is that it won’t rly contribute to breakpoints
plenty of full auto users but to each their own
tall torrent
My hot take is that FT is not rly worth for automatics
slow spade
but as it is? +4.5% damage isn't worth
tall torrent
FT is only worth for enabling breakpoints on weapons that need them
slow spade
rip Focused
sick marsh
what kinda melee is best with plasma gun?
tall torrent
what kinda melee is best with plasma gun?
Rashad
umbral scaffold
but as it is? +4.5% damage isn't worth
Is it worth for breakpoints
slow spade
what kinda melee is best with plasma gun?
something with hordeclear
tall torrent
slow spade
Psword or Rashad imo
slow spade
Is it worth for breakpoints
no
sick marsh
Psword or Rashad imo
chainsword?
slow spade
+4.5% damage is not worth 1 point
tall torrent
Is it worth for breakpoints
It doesn’t change major breakpoints on any weapon available to veteran
umbral scaffold
I mean more damage to one-shot with plasma
slow spade
chainsword?
idk chainsword's hordeclear but iirc its good enough
tall torrent
I mean more damage to one-shot with plasma
You can get that with just redirect fire
umbral scaffold
You can get that with just redirect fire
Yeah, I'm talking about it
slow spade
Redirect Fire is good
tall torrent
chainsword?
slow spade
its just Focused Fire (8 stack node) that's bad
tall torrent
Refer to this when making choices about veteran melee weapons
sick marsh
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1303535270725161111...
got it.
orchid hemlock
chainsword?
Chainsword is one of the worst melee weapons in the game
tall torrent
Chainsword is one of the worst melee weapons in the game
Nah
slow spade
Refer to this when making choices about veteran melee weapons
seeing the mk12 where it is makes me sad :c
tall torrent
It’s just a one trick
sick marsh
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1303535270725161111...
and for a skill tree (since that guide lacks any builds)?
tall torrent
That’s why I don’t write it as “bad”
slow spade
the only weapon (both melee and ranged) I consider truly "bad" is the shredder autopistol
orchid hemlock
I'm sorry but I'm not about to wait 3 seconds to kill a crusher or maulers
narrow frost
the only weapon (both melee and ranged) I consider truly "bad" is the shredder a...
☹️
slow spade
I'm sorry but I'm not about to wait 3 seconds to kill a crusher or maulers
sad Krak noises
tall torrent
and for a skill tree (since that guide lacks any builds)?
Rashad III combat axe
Carapace + elite
Brutal momentum + headtaker
Plasma
Unarmored + flak
Blessings (preference, refer to guide)
slow spade
Rashad III combat axe
Carapace + elite
Brutal momentum + headtaker
Plasma
Unar...
a shame its hard to get Agile Engagement with plasma :c
tall torrent
a shame its hard to get Agile Engagement with plasma :c
Not hard, u just have to give up survivalist
slow spade
Not hard, u just have to give up survivalist
I suppose, I just really like Survivalist
tall torrent
and... where might someone find this guide?
slow spade
on plasma
narrow frost
real shoal
I love agile engagement with plasma. Pop it out, blow a line through the crowd and go back about my business. It's like a double barrel shotgun that kills everything instead of just most things.
slow spade
it also lets me be lazy with breakpoints lol
faint beacon
Agile Engagement with like anything you’re going to be swapping between back and forth is really good
AE is really fucking good on the VAs also
orchid hemlock
Rashad III combat axe
Carapace + elite
Brutal momentum + headtaker
Plasma
Unar...
Wait why did u take crit rate node? 🤔
tall torrent
Wait why did u take crit rate node? 🤔
I went back to elite + carapace so I don’t need rending anymore
This saves 1 point for 4 options
One motion (placebo electric boogaloo)
Twinned blast (I love gambling)
5% crit chance (I love gambling)
Target down (toughness & stamina gain)
orchid hemlock
Wait rending strikes has a breakpoint with Rashad?
slow spade
Target Down my beloved
tall torrent
Wait rending strikes has a breakpoint with Rashad?
With redirect fire x5, headtaker x5, precision strikes, 5% melee damage + desperado, BID and rending strikes, Rashad with +25% carapace damage can 3 tap both mauler & crusher
With 2 stack FT tag, if u crit once, it’ll 2 tap
faint beacon
Man this gameplay goes hard as fuck
Heavy Heavy Heavy
Lmao
That’s really just Rashad in a nutshell with carapace
faint beacon
End all be all fucking win button melee
orchid hemlock
With redirect fire x5, headtaker x5, precision strikes, 5% melee damage + desper...
So ur saying with elite it pushes the breakpoint to 3 without rending?
slow spade
no fancy moves needed for the heretic 
real shoal
I hated the Rashad because of its weight and stickiness. Turns out I just needed the attack speed from fury of the faithful on Zealot (and their 10% speed node). Once I got that, it suddenly felt fine.
slow spade
rashad is mostly held back by attack speed (and technically cleave BM op)
real shoal
I was amazed at how fast it chewed through a plague ogryn the other day. Just chomping him in the face repeatedly.
tall torrent
So ur saying with elite it pushes the breakpoint to 3 without rending?
Yes
Downside is you don’t get scab bruiser 1HS without headtaker stacks, and u need all headtaker stacks + redirect fire for dreg gunner 2HS
I might (?) try a different set-up later on
Elite + weakspot + rending strikes
See if it gives the same 3 hit crushers (2 if 1 crit)
I doubt it tho
earnest bone
i think 2 if 1 crit only possible with carapace + elite, too demanding
tall torrent
Nah, carapace + rending strikes can do the same
umbral granite
I like weapon spec build with Ps and Zerona revolver. Swing away at hordes then turn around and pop a round through a ragers skull.
orchid hemlock
Path trying to find the perfect Rashad set up:
tall torrent
That was azreal
slow spade
Path trying to find the perfect Rashad set up:
Fatshark is waiting for them to perfect it before trying the Brutal Momentum nerf
earnest bone
Path trying to find the perfect Rashad set up:
slow spade
That was azreal
I wonder what happened to him
tall torrent
Fatshark is waiting for them to perfect it before trying the Brutal Momentum ner...
I want BM nerf tbh
earnest bone
orchid hemlock
Fatshark is waiting for them to perfect it before trying the Brutal Momentum ner...
DS nerf coming first tho 😔
slow spade
I want BM nerf tbh
yeah I think its unhealthy for the game too
tall torrent
Increase combat axe cleave
Reduce BM’s target number
Make BM do 2 targets, and have combat axes innately cleave like 5 mass
slow spade
DS nerf coming first tho 😔
seeing the dogshit DS users in PUG games, I feel its fine
earnest bone
slow spade
I need to stop quickplaying
tall torrent
Make BM do 2 targets, and have combat axes innately cleave like 5 mass
This would also be healthier for power sword
slow spade
but I like the challenge c:
final hamlet
just learned stairs are bugged alot
earnest bone
This would also be healthier for power sword
but people will just swap to Sunder
tall torrent
Because then slaughterer might have a genuine place
final hamlet
teammate 2 steps lower on stairs, doesent get the scream effect
slow spade
Make BM do 2 targets, and have combat axes innately cleave like 5 mass
anything other than fucking 1.5 cleave lmao
tall torrent
but people will just swap to Sunder
I don’t think so
earnest bone
or slaughterer yeah
tall torrent
Because slaughterer does scale better for stuff u do kill faster
Sunder is just aoe stagger for civi
tall torrent
Ya
slow spade
except for Mk3 power sword which you always do I guess
tall torrent
Better yet tho
I think
Delete power cycler
Make power swords innately have 2 activated swings in a combo
Not 3
slow spade
yeah Power Cycler is just "mandatory" which is pretty lame
tall torrent
So u can actually run different blessings on it
slow spade
back when Power sword was 3 charged attacks was peak (no one had power cycler so it was ok)
tall torrent
I’d also consider making combat axes and Tac axes’ cleave damage distribution better so they’re less reliant on BM
faint beacon
Either that or it’d have to be a full rework of the power swords like I saw of a suggestion where activation doesn’t innately make it stronger but it just swaps its move set like SM2 Does
I wouldn’t mind that tbh
slow spade
sadly not familiar with tac axes :c
faint beacon
They’re fucking hilarious
slow spade
wacking people with crit sounds fun
tall torrent
Tac axes could go really hard if they could use 4 perks + 4 blessings and had better carapace & unyielding ADM
I’m not joking
slow spade
Tac axes could go really hard if they could use 4 perks + 4 blessings and had be...
oof
earnest bone
go brr
tall torrent
Yea it needs smth like
Unarmored + flak + maniac + carapace
Brutal momentum + headtaker + shred + slaughter spree/decimator/all or nothing/agile
And better carapace & unyielding ADMs
Then it could go really hard
earnest bone
red items 3 perks 3 blessings 700 ilvl and level 35 cap go
FS
i want more points for veteran akdfakgfkhgakdfhkdfh
zealot tree is shit
slow spade
Power Cycler + Slaughter + BM + Rampage would not be op UwU
slow spade
I find Zealot tree is just a lot of "opportunity cost" picks that make me feel bad :c
"you can get some great nodes :D but you need to take knives D:"
earnest bone
@tall torrentyou know
they should remove some blessings and place them into new #3 slot
utility blessings
because right now in 90% situations you favor damage over utility
or 99%
so you get 2 + 2 + 1
utility blessings only some mechanics changed, no dmg buffs
lusty sapphire
"you can get some great nodes :D but you need to take knives D:"
Knives is one of the best tools in the game what do you mean?
slow spade
Knives is one of the best tools in the game what do you mean?
doesn't mean I want to take them
I like fire nades
uncut pebble
Knives is one of the best tools in the game what do you mean?
The issue is that every zealout that knows anything about zealout paths the exact same way. Tknives > benediction > fotf > pick your keystone.
uncut pebble
Fatshark needs to redesign the entire tree. Some nodes are just terrible, others are in bad spots.
lusty sapphire
The issue is that every zealout that knows anything about zealout paths the exac...
I agree to that
Very rigid
tawny badger
thinking about running autopistol vs actually playing it
lusty sapphire
A lot of dead nodes
tall torrent
Zealot has 1 good build which has like maybe 5 variations
lusty sapphire
Fatshark needs to redesign the entire tree. Some nodes are just terrible, others...
The entire middle tree is a clusterfuck
slow spade
I fucking love Enduring Faith on Zealot
earnest bone
Zealot has 1 good build which has like maybe 5 variations
too much dead nodes
slow spade
I can't not take it
earnest bone
veteran has much less of those useless nodes
slow spade
but it leads to knives and I want fire nades :c
tawny badger
thy wrath be swift being behind a node that isn't even relevant in most builds that use thy wrath be swift
tall torrent
I also don’t like how half the zealot tree revolves around crits
earnest bone
the most useless one is martyrdom CDR and that thing still not deleted or changed
slow spade
thy wrath be swift being behind a node that isn't even relevant in most builds t...
lol yeah
earnest bone
they probably have no ideas for it
tall torrent
Dance of death is not bad
It’s just
Whatever a lot of the time
But when it works for the few weapons that it matters for, it’s great
tawny badger
the most useless one is martyrdom CDR and that thing still not deleted or change...
lower ability cooldown at lower hp 
earnest bone
lower ability cooldown at lower hp <:shrug:909681128418443274>
this actually sounds interesting
tall torrent
Boltgun when u have dance of death + duellist up at the same time 
tawny badger
bc why in god's name would you purposefully take damage
lusty sapphire
Martyr in general needs work
Strong af tho
tall torrent
Strong af tho
Eh
Fun yes
Strong compared to IJ? Idk
You lose like half the good nodes on zealot to play martyr
Unless u don’t take any of the health damage reduction nodes which at that point u might as well play IJ
lusty sapphire
You lose like half the good nodes on zealot to play martyr
I mean kinda yeah, still the attack speed and dmg buff plus all the survivability it gives despite the low hp kinda make up for it too
broken spade
what health damage reduction nodes?
lusty sapphire
what health damage reduction nodes?
Top left
broken spade
nah, useless
if you have health while playing martyrdom, you're playing it wrong anyways
lusty sapphire
And then I shall not fall for the toughness dr
tall torrent
I mean kinda yeah, still the attack speed and dmg buff plus all the survivabilit...
The thing is
IJ is +15% atk speed (both weapons), +15% T.damage and improved dodge recovery, improved dodge distance & speed
Martyr usually goes up to +40~48% M.damage and +20~24% M.atk speed, while having the worst talent tax in the game
That extra damage simply doesn’t justify the talent taxes
earnest bone
The thing is
IJ is +15% atk speed (both weapons), +15% T.damage and improved dod...
plus the pathing gives you both the most important DMG talent and backstab CDR
tall torrent
If u play martyr and want actually good nodes like second wind or TWBS
While taking restoring faith/bleed for the emperor
You pretty much guarantee losing sustained assault
Which is one of the choices of all time
earnest bone
actually they should remove that martyrdom CDR talent
and just place bleed of the emperor there
tall torrent
And if u don’t take restoring faith/bleed for the emperor for martyr
earnest bone
not like any other build use it
tall torrent
You’re pretty much just better off playing IJ over martyr
broken spade
Dont take restoring faith/bleed for the emperor
just play at low health like you're meant to
broken spade
the cdr point tax is a real problem
tall torrent
Most martyr weapons also want TWBS
If u play chain-weapon, TWBS is pretty much non negotiable
And u might want grievous wounds + good balance
earnest bone
If u play chain-weapon, TWBS is pretty much non negotiable
chainaxe, mk15, hammer
broken spade
imo the attack speed is worth missing sustained assault
tall torrent
Nah
Because IJ + faithful frenzy is +25%
Martyr + faithful frenzy is +30~34%
You’re looking at up to 9% melee atk speed difference
It’s really not as big as u think
broken spade
you also have more damage anyways
tall torrent
If u drop sustained assault for martyr, not rly
Sustained assault is 20%
IJ is 15%
That’s 35%
Martyr is 40~48%
At 5~6 stacks
broken spade
yeah so it's more
tall torrent
So you’re missing at most 13% melee damage
broken spade
40% is more than 35%
tall torrent
Which prob doesn’t change any breakpoint
broken spade
it's straight up more damage and more attack speed
hearty panther
it's more but only if you totally redline it
its a commitment level IJ doesnt ask for in the slightest
broken spade
losing 5 wounds is pretty normal gameplay
broken spade
Hell i play at low health even without martyrdom if my teammates are bad cause i just let them grab all the healing
hearty panther
and im left wondering if that meant my martyrdom build was good or bad
tall torrent
Yea, holding 5 stack sustained assault + max IJ stacks is also normal gameplay for at most 13% less melee damage
broken spade
being at 50 health is just not a concern
tall torrent
But I get better dodges, better ranged atk speed, barely lower melee atk speed and better talent point economy
broken spade
the only time i consider martyrdom's hp loss a big cost is pox gas
tall torrent
It’s just not a good trade
broken spade
tfw they give me stims to outheal the gas but I dont want to heal
pox gas also just makes it hard to have perfect toughness management, which sucks for martyr cause you need your toughness
terse idol
Me as I mention like, just running hp or toughness gives you more survivability
Me also as marty just gives you more wounds 
broken spade
but aside from that, I dont feel as though i lost anything
hearty panther
oh i think theyre actually playing the PS5 version rn on the strimstram
broken spade
i will never run martyrdom in pox gas again though
tall torrent
15x IJ is +15% T.damage, +15% T.atk speed, +7.5% dodge distance, +7.5% dodge speed and x85% dodge recovery
broken spade
still rather have the damage
tall torrent
For what weapon tho
hearty panther
IJ's extra ranged damage is pretty clutch
broken spade
for weapons that aren't really breakpoint sensitive that just kinda partially cleave things
evis and chainsword mostly
hearty panther
its probably the hardest part of me giving it up tbh
hearty panther
handful of guns it saves cause they just barely perform
tall torrent
for weapons that aren't really breakpoint sensitive that just kinda partially cl...
That kinda doesn’t seem worth
broken spade
maybe you should try it
tall torrent
I tried it and it wasn’t worth
That’s why I play IJ now
Giving myself +56% toughness from curios and having better talent economy far outweighs the damage increase
broken spade
not if you just don't need it
tall torrent
3x toughness on zealot goes crazy
broken spade
the tdr almost makes up for the fucked curios
hearty panther
martyrdom is just a fun gimmick
hearty panther
like this is NERFED IJ we're talking about, and a buffed martyrdom, and it's still not really worth it unless you're a player who is in absurd control of their toughness/gameplay
tall torrent
That’s +51% toughness
broken spade
tell me how much effective toughness 5 stacks of martyrdom has again?
earnest bone
6.5 x 5?
hearty panther
now the real big brain move is stacking wounds but still taking IJ
tall torrent
Oh wait it’s 6.5/stack now yea
Ok so x67.5% TDR
That’s ~48% more effective toughness
At 5 stacks
vapid nacelle
hey are any of the taxes cool
slow spade
yeah its typically better to just have more toughness
broken spade
That’s ~48% more effective toughness
multiplicative with you perks
which is not the case with curio blessing since they just add
so it ends up being almost the same
earnest bone
how do these stacks, i forgot the stupid formula
- 50% toughness dr on crit
- 15% Aura
- Two or three 5% toughness reduction nodes (depends on the route)
- Martyrdom 6.5x5 = 32.5% tdr
broken spade
the other tdr nodes and aura should all be multiplicative together
vapid nacelle
the 7 is not very accessible tho
what's wrong with the 7?
hearty panther
you gotta learn the moveset on it
tall torrent
how do these stacks, i forgot the stupid formula
- 50% toughness dr on crit
- 15...
All multiplicatively except martyr TDR which is additive with itself, and the 5% TDR nodes which are also additive with themselves
broken spade
The only thing i think might be additive for tdr is multiple stacks of martyrdom with itself, but i haven't bothered to check
ok good
hearty panther
how do these stacks, i forgot the stupid formula
- 50% toughness dr on crit
- 15...
about 75%
broken spade
happens to be the weapons i bring with martyr
vapid nacelle
you gotta learn the moveset on it
I honestly haven't touched the taxes before but I'm guessing it's some sort of heavy -> light for horde clear weapon instead of light/heavy spam
hearty panther
i gave up halfway
hearty panther
I honestly haven't touched the taxes before but I'm guessing it's some sort of h...
yep, exactly that
MKII just wants you to mash heavies, MKIV is lights for hordes, PA/heavies for elites, MKVII is uhhhhhh
idk, i cant picture it in my brain rn
broken spade
I do think they should deal with the martyrdom point tax in some way to give martyrdom builds more flexibility.
But i also disagree with the idea that the current martyrdom builds are inferior
it's just that there aren't many of them
vapid nacelle
doesn't seem so bad, I love the devil's claw 4 at least that's what it was called before the name update idk if that changed so taxe 7 sounds bearable
tall torrent
All multiplicatively except martyr TDR which is additive with itself, and the 5%...
This would be
0.5 x0.85 x0.9 x0.675 = 0.258 (~74% toughness damage)
hearty panther
hell yea i was close
faint beacon
MKII just wants you to mash heavies, MKIV is lights for hordes, PA/heavies for e...
Light Heavy horde
Special Heavy for single iirc
It has a buffer on it basically
hearty panther
if you wanna super sweat with it
the optimal horde is heavy light light repeat
ragers and other targets you wanna hard stop is special special heavy
light heavy for elites
tall torrent
I do think they should deal with the martyrdom point tax in some way to give mar...
What build do u run for martyr
hearty panther
push attack heavy light light repeat is also very good
broken spade
i think i've showed it before. It's a crit martyrdom build with crit dr and crit cdr
hearty panther
anyway MKVII is great if you have ADHD
tall torrent
I don’t think I’ve seen it before
Did u drop duellist?
Cuz otherwise u’d have no CDR nodes
Unless u dropped sustained assault
broken spade
What build do u run for martyr
this with shred rampage evis
tall torrent
Ok yea u dropped sustained assault
broken spade
i've run it with chainsword a long time ago though
tall torrent
Idk I think you’d just be better off with IJ if you’re gonna drop sustained assault for martyr
broken spade
i did mention dropping sustained assault when we talking about it earlier. It's still more damage than the ij build
broken spade
and aspd
tall torrent
Cuz u dropped the 5% melee damage on top
earnest bone
15% vs 20-24
vapid nacelle
all da taxes are cool
trying them in psykhanium now and yeah these lil guys are pretty neat, time to make one
thanks again
tall torrent
So it’s actually just 8% more melee damage at best
broken spade
assume 5 wounds cause usually i don't try to hurt myself for that last wound after holy rev heals me
tall torrent
And 9% melee atk speed at best
broken spade
If chainsword you can probably drop twbs too
hearty panther
:smug:
tall torrent
assume 5 wounds cause usually i don't try to hurt myself for that last wound aft...
Ok then it’s 40% vs
(5+20+15)% = 40%
U actually didn’t gain any damage
broken spade
aspd
tall torrent
20% vs 15%
broken spade
these are literally mash m1 weapons
tall torrent
U gained 5% atk speed
broken spade
it's more dps
broken spade
the benefits of ij are literally nothing to me
if not having the dodge buff didn't kill me, i didn't need it
if not having the health didn't kill me, i also didn't need it
my deaths are mostly trappers while i'm too deep into a horde to move
in which case, more aspd is better there anyways
tall torrent
Yea but even if u ignore the dodge bonuses, ranged weapon atk speed & total damage are just generally more applicable
You actually gained only 5% melee atk speed in comparison
hearty panther
youre missing out
15% faster and 15% more damage
heck you dont even have anoint in blood smh
broken spade
the damage does matter but it's not really a big deal to me
tall torrent
Dropping all that for 5% melee atk speed is crazy to me
broken spade
i'm also pretty sure this has more effective toughness too, but not enough to really matter
hearty panther
its what i play for thammer
severe gale
this with shred rampage evis
which evis
broken spade
mk15
hearty panther
it simulates pre-tree zealot as best as possible
broken spade
literal button mash build
now that i think about it, i think the impact on the way to crit cdr actually matters too. Would have to test later
i swear there are times at the beginning of fights where i dont stagger as i'd expect for ragers
probably punishment+ rampage doing it
need to test stagger breakpoints
tall torrent
i'm also pretty sure this has more effective toughness too, but not enough to re...
When every single buff is working, it has 12.45 more effective toughness
broken spade
yeah so more but not really enough to matter
tall torrent
Assuming 115 base toughness, enduring faith + benediction + 5% TDR + (martyr TDR x5)
Martyr (+5% x3) is 485.265
IJ (+17% x3 & +5% x3) is 472.817
Negligible differences
For just 5% atk speed bonus (while losing a bunch of nice things)
It’s not a worth trade
broken spade
I also doubt you're grabbing ij without any compromises either though. What is the proposed build?
You're either losing crit cdr or aspd node
nocturne mulch
MKII just wants you to mash heavies, MKIV is lights for hordes, PA/heavies for e...
MkVII is heavy light push attack
broken spade
ij does have it's own cdr node but you have to admit it is weaker than crit cdr
and also maybe the impact node above crit cdr matters for evis, more testing needed
earnest bone
I also doubt you're grabbing ij without any compromises either though. What is t...
backstab cdr is fine tbh
broken spade
yeah but it's not as good
earnest bone
its sometimes silly, but most of the time its enough to keep the atk speed buff from chastise
broken spade
it just isn't as strong as crit cdr with how broken it is now
earnest bone
i'd say the old was more broken (perfect strike instant reset go brr), but the new one is viable for more weapons
broken spade
if crit cdr gives me an extra fotf in a fight, it's better to me than slightly better dodges
tall torrent
I also doubt you're grabbing ij without any compromises either though. What is t...
Even if u just change martyr to IJ while keeping crit CDR, it’s still better
broken spade
Even if u just change martyr to IJ while keeping crit CDR, it’s still better
you would lose the aspd node
which is even more aspd than you considered earlier
tall torrent
Actually no, 1 point short, prob drop faithful frenzy
Then it’s 15% atk speed loss
For a bunch of other upsides
Still a good trade
broken spade
15 aspd is a lot
tall torrent
But since you have crit CDR for FotF
That 10% atk speed loss is less of a big deal
In comparison to IJ’s myriad of bonuses
broken spade
especially on evis because it's actually just too slow
but chainsword wants to mash as fast as possible just for dps
tall torrent
I don’t even use crit CDR if I go IJ tbh
earnest bone
^
broken spade
I wouldn't either but you can't say it's not a compromise
vapid nacelle
forgot the mastery system exists, don't worry guys I'll carry the auric mael
broken spade
you can't just ignore all these little things and say "see, this build is better"
tall torrent
It’s a 15% atk speed compromise to have good dodges & better ranged atk speed
That’s worth the trade 9/10 times
Also u don’t have to play low health all the time
broken spade
aspd is more dps, easier stagger, feels more responsive
the safety you gain from being able to just mash faster and interrupt enemies is better than the dodges imo
severe gale
so
severe gale
the safety you gain from being able to just mash faster and interrupt enemies is...
what’s going on
what’s the discussion between
broken spade
path saying martyrdom isn't worth it over ij
i'm saying there are some builds where you get more out of martyrdom
earnest bone
what’s the discussion between
that martyrdom is way too taxing for what it does
also martyr CDR being shit and thus forcing one of the other two
severe gale
i'm saying there are some builds where you get more out of martyrdom
honestly martyrdom’s damage goes to waste a lot of the time, it rarely helps with BPs, especially because it doesn’t affect ranged damage (IJ does)
and building for most important BPs is easy enough
attack speed is nice but you get enough out of IJ and faithful frenzy
along with IJ being easier to use, and having CDR in the tree (backstab)
martyrdom can be fun, but rarely would i say its a particularly amazing build
broken spade
I think the point tax is absolutely an issue because it limits what weapons are viable with it.
But i think the very few builds that do work with martyrdom are better with martyrdom than with IJ
i would rather use chainsword/mk15 evis with martyrdom
severe gale
i would rather use chainsword/mk15 evis with martyrdom
both weapons do better on IJ, especially the evis with dodge buffs
hollow ibex
wtf happened to vet chat
severe gale
on my first game with a mk13g chainsword in forever, shred wrath IJ with invocation of death, dropped 800k damage
broken spade
you get more dps out of martyrdom and you don't need the dodge
hollow ibex
Meanwhile actual zealot chat is talking about femboys 
broken spade
i didn't even realize what chat this was
umbral granite
What are your thoughts on Chaxe with vet?
severe gale
you get more dps out of martyrdom and you don't need the dodge
increasing DPS on evis is actually kind of counter intuitive due to damage caps, your real gain from more damage is pretty minimal and most single target you just rev attack anyway, where damage from martyrdom doesn’t really change most BPs
the attack speed is nice
broken spade
dps from the attack speed i meant
orchid hemlock
I'm still trying to figure out what stamina perks are best on Zealot 😔
severe gale
but IJ vs marty attack speed is so minimal
orchid hemlock
you don’t need stamina on zealot
No not stamina, like SE or SR
severe gale
No not stamina, like SE or SR
oh, still neither
sprint eff is pointless on zealot
u regen stamina so fast you don’t need it
orchid hemlock
Do people rly like HP that much on Zealot?
severe gale
No not stamina, like SE or SR
also what’s SR
orchid hemlock
Stamina regen
severe gale
ah right
broken spade
honestly for mk15 evis specifically, the aspd is as helpful for surviving as the dodge
You have so much reach and stagger. Swinging through the enemies faster to hit the thing that was going to attack does help
severe gale
Stamina regen
stam regen is a bit better, but still, not very needed
severe gale
Do people rly like HP that much on Zealot?
3 tness with 3x hp, 3x toughness , 2x gunner res is what i run
the final curio slot is whatever u want
i have docks on it lol
i rarely ever have issues with stamina
severe gale
honestly for mk15 evis specifically, the aspd is as helpful for surviving as the...
5% attack speed difference like path said earlier doesn’t really affect that though
and the real threats (maulers, crushers, ragers,) won’t get staggered by lights
you shouldn’t be taking that much chip from chaff in reality anyway
broken spade
it's either a 5% difference and you're losing crit cdr or 15% and you still have it.
ik you still have backstab cdr and can live without crit cdr but don't tell me you're not losing anything in that trade
broken spade
and the real threats (maulers, crushers, ragers,) won’t get staggered by lights
it does stagger maulers actually
buffs might be needed though. I don't think it's consistent at the start of a fight
I'm pretty sure rampage is doing work with the stagger buff there
severe gale
it's either a 5% difference and you're losing crit cdr or 15% and you still have...
i run mk15 IJ with crit cdr
orchid hemlock
3 tness with 3x hp, 3x toughness , 2x gunner res is what i run
i understand that HP gives a nice cushion, but after using it for months I realized that it doesn't really help me with thing that chip my hp away like bursters and snipers
earnest bone
Meanwhile actual zealot chat is talking about femboys <:uwugryn:1062882479310110...
so tanner
severe gale
i understand that HP gives a nice cushion, but after using it for months I reali...
helps with holy rev, also it’s just an easy way to make a build better
so
that’s why i take it
broken spade
i run mk15 IJ with crit cdr
so you're giving up something on the tree
likely the aspd node
severe gale
i just haven’t bothered with curios much
broken spade
so it's more than 5%
severe gale
so you're giving up something on the tree
likely the aspd node
nope, second chastise charge
severe gale
mk15 with bloodthirsty rampage doesn’t need 2 chastise charges
you have chastise every 10 seconds
broken spade
if we're allowing giving up the 2nd chastise charge on both builds, i could also grab sustained assault
which actually widens the damage gap a lot more
path's whole premise was i wasn't gaining any damage because i gave up sustained
but if we're doing a 1 to 1 comparison and we're saying 2nd chastise can be dropped, it would still have sustained
oh wait not sustained, just the melee node
that still widens the damage gap a little
5% more than
midnight totem
just completed one of the new modifer missions
didn't realize it constantly spawned beasts of nurgle, good thing we were on regular damnation
well, we aced it easily, but it could've gone much worse
tall torrent
3 tness with 3x hp, 3x toughness , 2x gunner res is what i run
I have a cursed set-up rn
3x toughness, 2x health (220 health which is enough imo), 5% toughness, 3x docket, 1x sniper, 2x gunner
only thing I miss is 3x sprint efficiency
midnight totem
do they have any sort of interactions?
Not really
other then blowing up if killed by a bullet of course
torn gorge
only elites/specials though?
earnest bone
I have a cursed set-up rn
3x toughness, 2x health (220 health which is enough im...
w8, are you really low on dockets rn?
torn gorge
do you have to kill them or can you just aim at the tentacles to trigger the explosion?
midnight totem
Couldn't tell you, I spent most of that mission wading into the enemy with my power sword
I melee vet, don't care even if its a wall of crushers
Although I think I've seen the little ones pop from stray bullets
earnest bone
Although I think I've seen the little ones pop from stray bullets
its funny when something like reaper instantly pop up
when i just started firing recon12
its a buff
midnight totem
The event pox walkers are a bit slower though
remember the old pox walker running speed? They're at that level
midnight totem
I suppose the tentacles are making it hard to run
earnest bone
terse idol
Oh are the guys looking weird?
midnight totem
you haven't seem them yet?