veteran-class

[earnest bone]

recon mk12 + crit chance perk on wep + passive crit + shocktrooper talent + reciprocity talent (if you can manage it)

for blessings dumdum/headhunter

[placid portal]

Agripinaa autogun a bit of a mule for that

[umbral scaffold]

how would you buff (if at all) vigilant autos?

[terse idol]

Take MF and camouflage

Crouch

Melee

[tropic abyss]

burst fire
no idea, never liked burst fire in any game
semi auto
more damage, they clearly intended it as a sniper stand in with all that zoom, but it just ain't kill shit good enough

[terse idol]

Crab vet farming

[tropic abyss]

MF + camo
you can kill with any weapon so spam grenades, use weapons with high penetration and blast away at hordes

[terse idol]

Also hol up it kills very good

Just gotta dooo a few headshots

[tropic abyss]

not good enough to be competitive with the alternatives

[terse idol]

Uhh

I'll need to check the guiide its not that bad

[tropic abyss]

instead of checking guides try playing with it for a while and compare with the other options

[tame lodge]

The headhunter when you hunt heads

[terse idol]

I mean i have

Before the update

When my gun had 13 mobility

It was good with the usual blessings

Probably even better now with 60

[tame lodge]

The semi is the best DMR in the game

The 3 shot one is a decent big game hunter

I don't play with the 9

[mortal kite]

Plasma gun; guide says I need one with a tiny biy more charge rate but will it matter ?

[pseudo fiber]

It might change when you upgrade it

[mortal kite]

how

I don't think stat distribution changes?

[pseudo fiber]

Funny game is broken

I had one that was 71 69 and it swapped to 73 67

[slow spade]

its roughly a 0.06s firing difference between 69% and 80%

you're probably fine

[serene bough]

is cash shop rotation this week or next week

[tame lodge]

Next

[serene bough]

thnx

[ebon hound]

ACTUAL SCOPES/SIGHTS

[orchid hemlock]

Get weapon customization

[ocean idol]

For laspistol

weapon specialist or marksman focus?

[supple stag]

Weapon Specialist always

[sleek garden]

marksmans focus helps a bit because the damage falloff is so dramatic

Weapons specialist probably helps a bit more though

With just damage output

Marksmans focus might help with a breakpoint though

And reload speed

[supple stag]

Laspistol makes for a good sidearm if you're doing a heavy melee playstyle

[thick kestrel]

they also work for just a straight up shooty build if you're confidant in headshots. they've got excellent finesse characteristics and have strong anti-supression handling like most pistols.

[sleek garden]

Yeah I swapped my infantry lasgun for a las pistol on the train mission once, I thought it worked quite well

but the damage falloff is definitely noticeable and has a sweet spot of like 5-10 meters

With sniper at least

[hollow ibex]

yeah damage fall off is pretty hard on the las pistol

honestly if you're going to go for a shooty build, might as well just take recon las or ilas instead

las pistol is great for a hybrid or melee-heavy build tho

[sleek garden]

I didn't take flak on it but I used marksmans focus and it started one shotting scab shooters at midrange

On the train mission I found Zarona Shotgun a lot of fun

but it is always so noticeable in my games when I'm not playing anti shooter

I feel like I have to take a high capacity gun that one shots shooters to the head

Because you know everyone else is using a bolter flamer or something like that

Revolver

Nothing that can effectively deal with entrenched shooters

Bolters would suppress them pretty well I suppose

[full nacelle]

laspistol is great for a shooty run and gun build

has some of the best mobility out of any other gun

[hollow ibex]

it doesn't have run and gun tho

[full nacelle]

on top of insane finesse scaling

nah I mean it in the colloquial term

you run with it and you gun with it

[hollow ibex]

oh ic

if i'm shooting a lot, i'd still prefer recon las or ilas for that

[full nacelle]

it's extremely strong in that sense... and the closer you are the easier it is to land those 2.5x damage headshots

[thick kestrel]

it's also one of the better options for an infernus loadout for Veteran

[tame lodge]

And flamers as well

So everyone running bolter flamer has suppression for days

Off to do something else

[dreamy spade]

How much is the increased cleave on man stopper?

[hollow ibex]

uhh infinite iirc

[dreamy spade]

Is the slug the best shotgun?

[hollow ibex]

i think it's def the best of the combat shotties

some people really like the doubel barrel shotgun too

[supple stag]

Agripinaa feels really fun

[ocean idol]

Range falloff specifically for pistol?

[supple stag]

Gotta embrace the trench raider mentality

[ocean idol]

sooo mostly with knife?

[ocean idol]

Agripina what?

[hollow ibex]

that's the slug shotty

[supple stag]

shotty

[sleek garden]

Yes for las pistols

[supple stag]

It feels so nice on my Infiltrate loadout

[sleek garden]

You're doing like half damage at midrange

[ocean idol]

i am doing dumb build with zerona shotgun

I like how it cleaves hordes lol

[full nacelle]

Zarona/Lawbringer

wait no that's buckshot

[ocean idol]

Which chsword is better?

[hollow ibex]

yeah that's the spreadshot one

[full nacelle]

the slug one is the agripinaa

sorry I don't know my bullet lingo

[lost folio]

Mk4

[dreamy spade]

The crit blessings are great

[sleek garden]

What are you doing with it

People always say manstopper/scattershot but I found it more effective to save the blessing and grab manstopper and marksmans focus with tunnel vision modifier, and deadshot

[pastel zealot]

hey whats the dump stat for boltgun?

[hollow ibex]

mostly a meme build

[hollow ibex]

mobility, as usual

[torn acorn]

what are you guys favorite weapons on vet? melee and guns

ı have been using vraks mk II braced auto gun and a dueling sword but ı odn't really like dueling sword

[inland orchid]

Shovel and plasma does me wonders, making soccerball sized holes in heretics from afar with a decent melee to cover if I fumble

[torn acorn]

shovel?

oh wait

it was on intro

ı actually never saw one lmao

on armory

[hollow ibex]

bolter and rashad

[torn acorn]

rashad was an axe right?

[hollow ibex]

bolter for fun factor, rashad to pop 4 heretic heads at once

[hollow ibex]

yeah combat axe

[torn acorn]

ı don't have access to plasma rn

due to lvl

ı just couldn't warm up to the laser guns though

[hollow ibex]

if you're not level 30 yet, just explore and try a variety of weapons

[inland orchid]

Oh, what weapons brunt letting u use then

[hollow ibex]

try recon las instead

infantry las is not very good atm

[inland orchid]

Whichever look coolest to you snag one of ‘em and try it out

[torn acorn]

bullet firing ones feel better

[torn acorn]

yeah ı am collecting info rn

[inland orchid]

Autoguns mmmm, love me a good stripped down auto

[torn acorn]

will snag a shovel and a rashad when ı see them ffur sure

[torn acorn]

braced auto guns have been doing me goo

d

[inland orchid]

Blessing makes me feel like not caring bout cover

[hollow ibex]

don't bother with rashad unitl you're 30

rashad is very good but also very build specific

[torn acorn]

though ı am not entrirely sure what ı am do.ing wih blessing upgrades and shit

like what do these words mean?

impact? cleave?

[hollow ibex]

check the guide in the pins

it'll explain everything, if you're willing to sit down and read

[torn acorn]

holy

how did ı miss that lmao

[hard cave]

gun bash my beloved

[torn acorn]

oh ı am digesting that

[inland orchid]

Your life expectancy just went up, a veteran willing to read

The emperors definitely with us

[torn acorn]

ı just unlocked voice of command in the skill tree

that should bump it up a fair bit as wel

l

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/fun-this-is-where-the-fun-begins-anakin-skywalker-revenge-of-the-sith-star-wars-gif-26313467

[sleek garden]

what

[torn acorn]

ı am like 11 or 12 rn

[ocean idol]

I never thought to try manrskman on shotguns

i was using weapon spec

[sleek garden]

I'm recommending it specifically for zarona

[hollow ibex]

this requires marksman

[sleek garden]

it increases reload speed and headshot/crit damage

[ocean idol]

what about laspistol

it used to be my fav

[hollow ibex]

laspi is great

[ocean idol]

but now i also does not feel good

[sleek garden]

Infantry lasgun seems good to me

If we rate weapons only on how effectively it simultaneously mulches hordes and kills crushers in three shots yeah

[torn acorn]

are shotguns good?

[sleek garden]

It would suck

[torn acorn]

ı really wanna use em but ı feel like ı am going to not pull my weight

[sleek garden]

Honestly

They aren't great

But they are definitely usable

They have pretty long range

And most punch through enemies pretty effectively

Zarona needs a little more babying to do it

[torn acorn]

ı saw a manstopper (ı think) double barrel clip and it just obliterated a horde

[sleek garden]

but is probably the best at carrying the range with the buckshot I believe

[serene bough]

[sleek garden]

double barrel outclasses all the other shotguns

Kinda sad

[serene bough]

Yeah shotguns are kinda doodoo

[sleek garden]

I don't know why it can snipe snipers a kilometer away

[thick kestrel]

eh, a little overstated I think. it'll work just fine in pretty much all content. it's not as top end as other options but they're far from bad.

[torn acorn]

ı have seen a double barrel a couple times before wil get one when it comes around

[ocean idol]

... at this point just literally take bolter

[sleek garden]

Infantry lasguns keep me playing the game

[ocean idol]

why bother with shotgun

[torn acorn]

btw for melk, should ı ever touch mystery?

[sleek garden]

remove all specialists and shooters

[serene bough]

Double barrel w/ wep specialist is good

[sleek garden]

For variety and fun

[hollow ibex]

for memes

i like pretending i'm running a black powder elephant gun in 40K

[sleek garden]

I need to take some clips with Zarona cleave build

[ocean idol]

What are the blessings for chsword?

[torn acorn]

is devil's claw swords good? ı liked the moveset of those

[sleek garden]

I am a devils claw believer

You are in the presence of the number one devils claw fan

[torn acorn]

ı bow to thy greatness

[sleek garden]

yeah it's pretty good but don't expect it to kill hordes as fast as the power sword

Most of the power comes from being able to parry an attack and either one/two shot a rager or kill 3 people

[thick kestrel]

yarp, but it's important to note their limitations. they're strong defensive weapon picks with solid anti-horde capability and the best anti-rager tool you can get.

they can have trouble against large numbers of tougher opponents however and struggle against carapace outside of small engagements.

less murderous than a powersword but better to have when things go wrong and you need to dodge/parry/counter your way to survive

if you're on a low melee node investment build they're a good option (exestance shooter builds for example do well with them)

[sleek garden]

I take hammerblow and savage sweep seriously with it because it staggers maulers and keeps hordes still for you to keep swinging

it's very good for flexibility yeah

[torn acorn]

a solid all around option is what ı like

[hollow ibex]

yup they're very good as a defensive melee sidearm

[thick kestrel]

yee, which can be a lifesaver. particularly if you're running a more specialised ranged option (boltguns come to mind)

[jade aurora]

guys

[hollow ibex]

wouldn't use it if you're going heavily melee though

[jade aurora]

is it just me or is the power sword bugged

[torn acorn]

ı should have one in inventory will use it more

[sleek garden]

it feels so good to hear an enemy coming and whip it out and parry instantly

[torn acorn]

ı am not going anywhere rn as ı am not really trifling with builds rn

ı don't have the necessary talent points or the funds to get perk ı would need

[thick kestrel]

for more melee focused builds they fall behind a little as they don't really scale or benefit that well from higher attack speeds (as you want to be doing the parry strike often which is kind of slow if powerful)

[sleek garden]

well just keep in mind, you're not going to kill huge swaths of people in three swings

[jade aurora]

guys
is it just me or is the power sword bugged

[sleek garden]

you can however get some huge cleave and hit like 8 people at once

[sleek garden]

It's not

[thick kestrel]

in those cases the heavy swords, dueling swords, combat axes (and arguably tactical axes) are kind of preferable as they scale nicely off the back of the faster attacks and crits that the melee side of the veteran tree provides

[torn acorn]

parry? is this shove and do attack or something else

[sleek garden]

This is exactly what I use it for

[sleek garden]

It's your mouse5

Your special attack

[jade aurora]

sometimes i charge up my power sword that has power cycler IV on it but i only get 1 energized swing

feels bugged

[ocean idol]

even with weapon specialist agile engagement?
Also, what mk and what blessings for them?

[torn acorn]

the same things as chain sword revving? that is alt for me

ı don't have side buttons lol

[thick kestrel]

the Devilsword's special block action is a parry, it'll block then instant counterattack for a VERY high damage hit which can take out most to all things in 1-2 hits.

[faint beacon]

If you get hit at all it cancels powered

[sleek garden]

Yes

[thick kestrel]

in which case yes, it's the same key as the rev

[torn acorn]

ok ok thanks everyone

[ocean idol]

Zealot can one-shot crushers on parry with ult

[torn acorn]

ı'll be back

[jade aurora]

wdym? like when im charging or when its charged

[thick kestrel]

you'll get a fancy block animation which, if you're hit during it, you'll preform the parry

[torn acorn]

with more questions

[faint beacon]

When it’s charged

If you get meleed by let’s say a bruiser

[jade aurora]

so if my power sword is charged and i get hit its not charged anymore?

[ocean idol]

So not worth using with big melee investments?

[faint beacon]

It’ll drop the charge

[jade aurora]

dude wtf

[thick kestrel]

the parry actually got buffed recently with a bigger "perfect" block window

[faint beacon]

Pm

[sleek garden]

if you time the Parry as close as you can @torn acorn you can parry crusher overheads sacrificing maybe two bars of stamina

[jade aurora]

even against poxwalkers?

[faint beacon]

Yes but poxxers are easy to deal with

[thick kestrel]

eh, more that they don't benefit as much as other weapons. they still work well with those bonus nodes for regular attacks.

[torn acorn]

crushers are fun

[sleek garden]

I'd say it's actually great on zealot to annihilate hordes with shred and bleed stuff

[torn acorn]

ı love crushers

[thick kestrel]

the upside of the devil sword is that it has a very low investment floor for nodes but that trades off with a bit less benefit at the top end

[ocean idol]

So which devilclaw is the best?

[jade aurora]

this is not a lore accurate power sword

[ocean idol]

And what blessings for them?

[uncut pebble]

Mk7, shred rampage.

[sleek garden]

Here's something I clipped before

[thick kestrel]

they're by no means BAD with a melee build, but other weapons which are iffy without them kind of work better than the DS with them.

importantly play with what you want, if you want to run a revolver/devilsword combo that's pefectly workable

[uncut pebble]

You probably want to use it as an anti rager tool so flak maniac for perks.

[sleek garden]

this is open to interpretation, everyone likes the one that opens with a heavy strikedown but I prefer the mk1 with the double vanguard heavies

You can followup parry with a light strike down to keep your single target damage up

[orchid hemlock]

They have to do it because if the PS would just easily be the best Vet weapon in the game

It already is top 5

[thick kestrel]

honestly we're in a very solid point overall when it comes to weapon viability overall. some weapons are a bit overtuned (plasma, Zarona revolver) which people misinterpret as meaning everything else being bad.

[jade aurora]

well then whats number 1?

[sleek garden]

duelling sword is a little ridiculous when it's not psyker using it

[jade aurora]

and dont say dueling sword

[orchid hemlock]

Rashad

[sleek garden]

for some reason it seems to be Rashad combat axe

[orchid hemlock]

It always comes back to Rashad

[jade aurora]

war never changes

[thick kestrel]

I'd agree with this, I do love the dueling sword but it feels a bit silly for just how effective it is on most to all things right now ^^

[jade aurora]

and neither does rashad

[lost folio]

i really don't find myself with the plasma, especially in clutch situations

[sleek garden]

I keep saying it but it the Rashad should not be so flexible

[orchid hemlock]

And it's because the Rashad is literally just a PS that doesn't need to turn on

[sleek garden]

it has a specific niche it is meant to fill like all weapons

[thick kestrel]

I agree, I can respect it's power even if I personal don't enjoy it all that much.

same reason I don't tend to use powerswords. they're definitely good but they're not my speed.

[ocean idol]

brutal momentum just too stupid on it

[sleek garden]

I like using the plasma pistol like in space marine 2

Just whip it out for a moment to blast someone

[ocean idol]

I wish rashad was better against carapace, but did not have BM

[sleek garden]

The achlys has those spike attacks that do very well against carapace

I like the antaxe because the push attack

The Rashad has that weird flat side push attack

[sleek garden]

Does anyone know why I can't watch my own videos on mobile

I want to watch this but I can't

[opaque talon]

My second fav class

Hello to all brothers and sisters of the veteran class

[umbral scaffold]

Veeran

[ocean idol]

REEE i really want to like chsword and bistol

but they are literally worse than chaxes and revolver respectively

while doing mostly same things

[thorn torrent]

I love my bolt pistol! So fun

[hollow ibex]

that reminds me, need to try setting up a meme bpistol exec stance build

[twin thistle]

Chsword are insanely good with the appropriate perks on Vet !
The tree has super strong melee perks also

[elfin wing]

Anything I can improve on this build?

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d60d0de-10ce-4008-9f19-a1c736f40b72/vet-26?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[ocean idol]

what blessings and builds you use it with?

[ocean idol]

I have all melee perks

weapon itself is just worse than just about anything else

Chaxex do exact same things better

[twin thistle]

which blessings are you using ?

[ocean idol]

LEthla proximity for insane grenade aoe and surgical. Tried point blank instead of surgical before

ah, chsword

shred and drampage

[twin thistle]

Yes

[ocean idol]

thinking to rteplace shred

too inconsistent for my liking

especially with high chsworda attack speed

[twin thistle]

Okay, i can't remember what i'm using but i find the chainsword super versatile and efficient on Vet

[ocean idol]

[thick kestrel]

I run rampage and bloodletter, purely to provide a little bonus utility for the occaisonal high risk rev attack on big threats when I can get away with it.

smart? no

entertaining? yes!

[twin thistle]

Yeah i feel you

[twin thistle]

Did i say something wrong ?

[pseudo fiber]

Try swapping surgical for run and gun or puncture

[ocean idol]

How do you use bloodletter?

[ocean idol]

I tried run and gun before

not sure about puncture

[ocean idol]

[thick kestrel]

most of the time with light attack revs, heavies if it's "safe" to do so. the chainsword tends to live on my pure melee builds so it acts as an anti-carapace tool/anti-monstrosity tool.

not going to sell it as optimal but it gets the job done

and satisfying... sometimes you just need to rev up and chew apart a maulers head because it's fun

[ocean idol]

What perks you use on it?

[thick kestrel]

Rampage and bloodletter

[ocean idol]

Then again, if you do the same with just chaxe, it will be more effective

[ocean idol]

perks

[thick kestrel]

Ah pardon, flak and anti elite

[twin thistle]

Huhmm okay

[idle swallow]

Bloodletter applies all the bleed stacks instantly so even if you dodge right after the rev hit to cancel, you still get the bleed on enemy

[ocean idol]

Literally the convo:
Chsword bad
No, chsword good
How?
I dunno, but it is good

[ocean idol]

OOOOOOH

This is actually big

[ocean idol]

no carapace?

[twin thistle]

It can be only a matter of feeling who knows but my bad for being confused

[idle swallow]

Chainsword is pretty bad at carapace so the 25% boost isn't gonna help much

[ocean idol]

what

[thick kestrel]

I tried that initially but it kind of felt like overkill. The anti elite gives you a touch of versatility against rangers and specials as well.

[ocean idol]

WHAT

Mink, you really need work on your english

i have no idea what are you saying

[twin thistle]

Sorry i'm not english native

I'm doing my best

[ocean idol]

Pretty sure no one here is

So that's bad excuse

[thick kestrel]

Pardon,not specials.. other elites

[twin thistle]

Okay sorry

[ocean idol]

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-marlon-brando-scratch-whatever-shrug-gif-13233872

NO

[thorn torrent]

Puncture and surgical. I could probably replace surgical, but I feel like I might as well get something out of aiming.

The range on this thing is nuts, honestly.

Is executioner stance supposed to let you shoot through walls? lol it highlighter a mauler just now, I shot the wall, it ded.

[twin thistle]

Plasma ?

[thorn torrent]

Bolt.

[faint beacon]

Plasma most likely

Oh Boltgun can SOMETIMES

penetrate walls

[thorn torrent]

Nice, that was awesome.

lol

[twin thistle]

Then i don't know but the bolt aoe can surprisingly sometimes penetrate walls

I guess it is the case when the cover is really thin

[faint beacon]

That just sounds like Shartshark coding

[thorn torrent]

Idk much about the game, so Im not sure if the boltgun is supposed to be a poor weapon, but it clears out hordes incredibly well. Not to mention being able to pinpoint the elites and take them down.

[faint beacon]

Where the explosion goes through a wall

[inland orchid]

the only thing "poor" about it is the reload and swap speed

[thorn torrent]

The explosion carries the same damage as a direct hit? Not sure how to frame it.

[inland orchid]

everything else is

[thorn torrent]

Reload is bad, so true.

[twin thistle]

Boltgun is incredible, but with some perks you can pretty much compensate the bad reloading time

[twin thistle]

No

[idle swallow]

The explosion damage is very small, but is good for pinning fire stacks as most grunts in the radius will stagger

[thorn torrent]

I feel like I dont suffer too much from the reload. I can usually position myself far back enough that I've got some room to swap to the shovel.

Yeah, it definitely staggers groups.

Is that the suppression aspect of it too? When they duck and cower?

[twin thistle]

In very intense damnation games (like Maelstrom), you will spend most of your time reloading because of the very high number of specials/elites, so reloading speed perks can be very useful

[thorn torrent]

Haven't tried damnation yet, only up to heresy.

Ill keep it in mind lol

[twin thistle]

Yes

[thorn torrent]

What's the dump stat for it usually?

[slow spade]

Mobility

[ocean idol]

I don't see any point in puncture

[slow spade]

lets you hit breakpoints you normally wouldn't

[faint beacon]

Puncture + Shattering is the only combo you can do when pairing those debuffs

[slow spade]

except vs carapace lol

[faint beacon]

Otherwise it’s like pinning

[slow spade]

Pinning Fire + Puncture if you go Exec

Pinning Fire + Surgical if you go VoC

[ocean idol]

why no lethal prox 😦

also i think i want run and gun

[thorn torrent]

Hmm, pinning fire you say

[slow spade]

this is for bolter

[thorn torrent]

Bolt pistol has lethal prox

[slow spade]

"per staggered enemy" -> "when bolt kills target 5m out, explodes and staggers everyone in an area"

very useful combo

[slow spade]

indeed it does

[thorn torrent]

Is that a talent or a blessing? Because I don't see pinning fire for pistol.

[slow spade]

bolt pistol doesn't have pinning fire

[thorn torrent]

Ah ha, okay

[slow spade]

the convo above mentioned bolter

or "boltgun" technically

[thorn torrent]

Bolter to me is bolt pistol. I guess I need to be more specific. Boltgun is..spearhead?

[hollow ibex]

Puncture and shattering impact is a pretty funny combo on bolter

[slow spade]

bolter, boltgun both refer to the bolter to most people

[hollow ibex]

Bolter typically refers to the boltgun yeah

[slow spade]

as long as its clarified

[inner temple]

Yeah

[broken spade]

people have been used to calling the spearhead boltgun "the bolter" since launch, so that's what people will assume

[slow spade]

only really good for carapace and boss smashing sadly

I wonder if Fatshark will ever return the "auto-reload on ult" upgrade for Exec Stance

[thorn torrent]

Fair enough, makes sense lol

[hollow ibex]

Yeah but reliable four shots against crusher 😭

[inner temple]

I just call both bolters

[slow spade]

indeed, you can get it to 3 with weakspot hits

[broken spade]

idk what 40k fans usually call them but boltpistol is newer to the game and boltgun already had the title

[slow spade]

I've always seen and heard people refer to it as "bolter"

[inner temple]

Pretty sure.. bolter

[slow spade]

people calling "Boltgun" is a new one to me

[inner temple]

Because it fires such giant rounds. Even the sniping bolters

[slow spade]

been following 40k for like 10 or so years

[inner temple]

You just gotta know and have knowledge on it really

[inner temple]

1-2 I'm barely even touching surface..

[thorn torrent]

Yeah, any bolt weaponry is usually referred to as 'bolter', but typically it refers to the archetype pistol

I forgot about the spearhead gun. What's the difference between it and the pistol?

[tall torrent]

It’s better overall

[slow spade]

obvious magsize and ammo

but also different blessings, reload times, swap time

idk about its damage dropoff and stuff

I imagine bolt pistol is the same as the bolter

[tall torrent]

Damage profile is identical
However, due to pinning fire, it has a much easier time hitting breakpoints

[slow spade]

yeah Pinning Fire is cracked

[tall torrent]

Exe stance Boltgun is one of the best builds on veteran

[slow spade]

it used to be 20% too...

[inner temple]

Something to understand tho

[ocean idol]

i don't get it, why no surgical with exec?

[slow spade]

unnecessary

you CAN

[inner temple]

Spearhead takes longer prep and longer reload

[slow spade]

but you still 1-tap everything regardless

I suppose you can 1-tap things outside of exec stance but a its 25 sec cd

[tall torrent]

Exe stance makes u 1 tap everything without, and surgical basically exists only for Crit 1 bodyshot priority targets

[thorn torrent]

Looking at the two, bolt pistol has a higher damage profile. Not by much?

[slow spade]

hardly an issue for a Vet

[tall torrent]

So it’s like, you’re investing strictly in overkill damage most of the time

[ocean idol]

I see

[inner temple]

Yurp great guns dunno why some prefer others over bolt pistol

[slow spade]

I do run into ammo issues with the bolt pistol

even with survivalist

[thorn torrent]

So many guns, Im not even sure what to try out. Plasma was..interesting.

[inner temple]

On zealot ive been running bolt pistol and I only use it against specials.

[slow spade]

you can just fuck around

[inner temple]

Don't blow up

[slow spade]

just please queue for difficulties you're ready for

I don't want another 4 deaths on a heresy like last night lol

[thorn torrent]

I use it against everything. Clears hordes well. I try my best to only pull out the shovel when absolutely necessary, so I spend a lot of time positioning, trying to stay in coherence but with cover

[inner temple]

No I wanna raw dog it on an unknown weapons

[hollow ibex]

Gotta test new weapons on auric

[inner temple]

This guy gets it

[slow spade]

I guess I still need the 1000 rescue penance...

[thorn torrent]

Hahah, I'm not a masochist. I play mostly on malice, the heresy groups I end up joining are usually not so very, uh. Team oriented?

[tall torrent]

Plasma is almost exclusively a special sniping / anti-elite gun

[slow spade]

that's for sure :c

[inner temple]

Gotta test if its worthy on higher levels plus I figure things out faster when facing tense situations.

[slow spade]

one day I'd like to queue with multiple vets running focus target

for the stacking damage buff

[thorn torrent]

Oh really. Ive been enjoying sniping with the bolt pistol, and I like being able to down maulers/reapers(?) and the other ogryns quickly with it.

[tall torrent]

What difficulty have u been mostly playing

[broken spade]

Did they buff inspiring barrage at some point? I swear it was so much worse when i tried it a around launch

[thorn torrent]

Malice.

[slow spade]

yes

but idk when

[ocean idol]

[tall torrent]

Ok, I’d recommend u engage with the melee mechanics more

[thorn torrent]

I'm a newb 😭

[broken spade]

half a bolter mag giving me a full toughness heal actually surprised me
I swear this used to be straight dogshit

[inner temple]

I often use atleast Heresy but I understand bruddah

[slow spade]

you're probably running Out for Blood with a bolter anyways

so Inspiring Barrage is pretty meh

[tall torrent]

If you’re coming to Darktide from space marine 2, I would highly suggest you forget guns exist for a good day or two and just focus solely on melee combat

[thorn torrent]

I'd like to, lol. I've completed Heresy like 4 times, but most of it is a clusterfuck of team mates everywhere lolol

[slow spade]

the sad moment when my normal human in darktide feels more fluid in melee than a Primaris marine

[inner temple]

Get gud at dodges to the point you can dodge and be right behind the enemy

[thorn torrent]

Yeah!

I love doing that, lol

[inner temple]

https://tenor.com/view/resident-evil-4-resident-evil-4-remake-resident-evil-re4-resident-evil-hunk-gif-7719374135214637399

[thorn torrent]

Being able to side step juke is awesome

[slow spade]

Hunk as an excindio when? UwU

[thorn torrent]

I've got dodging down fairly well, although probably not the core mechanics. Like, how weapons affect it, etc. And I seem to do all right with the shovel clearing out hordes. Pop meth, shove, smash.

[inner temple]

Pfft

[tall torrent]

Get used to dodge, push, block, and some combos

[thorn torrent]

Yeah, dodging was the game changer I needed to get into higher difficulties.

[inner temple]

Yeah also learn what weapons will give different moves. Example first heavy on one of the knives does a slash

[thorn torrent]

I've noticed that, it's what made me stick with the shovel lol

The downward strike from the assault chainsword I tested tripped me out

[inner temple]

Shovel is amazing and basic but theres more to mastery

Im doing my mastery run on every weapon tbh

[thorn torrent]

Imma work on it, once I get this guy to 30.

[severe gale]

the push attack on the shovel is really good for single target

[inner temple]

Yes

[severe gale]

it’s the only finesse attack on the shovel

[thorn torrent]

Yeah, I somehow fought a crusher? by myself with it lol

[inner temple]

Also if using a switch shovel they do good armor pierce

[severe gale]

with skullcrusher and uncanny stacked, you can deal 1600 damage in one attack to a crusher lol

[thorn torrent]

jesus. I have uncanny and..something else.

[hollow ibex]

On mk1? Dafuq

[severe gale]

skull crusher damage only applies when the enemy is staggered, but you can force a stagger on every enemy except bosses with special

[severe gale]

yarp

[hollow ibex]

I’ve been underestimating it then

Need to try it out again 🤔

[inner temple]

All weapons have their niches

[hollow ibex]

Yeh like SAPs niche is converting ammo into air

[shell python]

remind me the difference between the two power sword variants?

[inner temple]

Honestly from what ive seen those are the same not even varients. But.. one of them does get an overhead so.

[hollow ibex]

VI is the good one and the only one you’ll ever need

[severe gale]

mk6 is better, empowered push attack light can 2 shot crushers

[inner temple]

And one looks more damaged and badass

[severe gale]

it’s got horizontal lights, great for brutal momentum

[inner temple]

Im still learning my weapons so

Best I can do is appearance

[pastel zealot]

i know this has probably been answered, but what's y'all's comfort curio set-up?

[inner temple]

Honestly go with what you want but health percentage should be bottom of list. In my opinion

[shell python]

thank you gents

[shell python]

i feel like ive been doing well with +1 wound, +2 stam and +19% health

[pastel zealot]

do you think I'd benefit more from running 2 toughness, 1 hp?

or 3 stam

[inner temple]

Yes

Toughness is your 'THP' in Darktide

[pastel zealot]

so 2 tough + 3 stam, or 1 hp?

[full nacelle]

2 toughness curious and 1 stam curio

health has fallen off a lot

especially on veteran

[pastel zealot]

that bad, huh?

[hollow ibex]

I didn’t think stam is needed on vet

[inner temple]

Stamina is just a nice thing in general tbh

[full nacelle]

stamina is good on every class, especially veterans that run deadshot

[hollow ibex]

On most builds at least

[agile forge]

Does cleave damage matter on a power sword 6?

uh cleave targets

not cleave damage

[full nacelle]

nope! dump it

[hollow ibex]

Nice but I’d rather have another hp or toughness curio

[agile forge]

I just rolled one with max 58 cleave targets

and I tend to use bromentum anyway

[tall torrent]

200 health
20% sniper resist
Everything else up to u

[full nacelle]

stamina is very important in the highest tiers of play

[inner temple]

Nah because you power it up anyway

[hollow ibex]

Don’t need it if you can manage it

Unless you’re running deadshot

[agile forge]

Wait is it actually cleave damage that I want to be dump then? Not cleave targets?

[tall torrent]

Cleave target is dump

[agile forge]

target perfect :D

[inner temple]

Plus it fuels.. everything. Block, shove and stalls for regen after a dodge

[agile forge]

right got my perfect sword in 1 buy then

[full nacelle]

it's not a matter of managing it, having more lets you position much better

you can outmaneuver hordes, block more attacks, shove more, run to vantage points easier/faster

[inner temple]

Which doesn't happen in vermintide it regens anyway while dodging

[pastel zealot]

so 209 toughness and 158 hp isnt enough?

[hollow ibex]

In tactical situations, taking a few sprint eff perks is more than enough for that purpose

Don’t need an entire stam curio for that

[tall torrent]

What exactly do u have on ur curios that u can’t get >200 health

[pastel zealot]

5% toughness x3, 12% stamt regen x3, 2x gunner, 1x sniper

[agile forge]

I'm not running any melee damage boosts on my build that's using the power sword atm (it's a snap anti-everything for my MF vraks 5 gun focused build), should I still do Elites/Maniacs as the guide suggests?

[orchid hemlock]

Take 2 HP main stats

Or 1 HP main with 3 HP perks

[dire olive]

Take 9 stamina and simply outrun your problems

[inner temple]

Take all toughness to simply just be unkillable.

[tall torrent]

This is just not true

[orchid hemlock]

Take all HP stat

[agile forge]

take +9 stamina and go deadshot vraks 5

[orchid hemlock]

No

[agile forge]

and shit it away in like 2s anyway

[orchid hemlock]

Deadshot is trash change my mind 🧍

[inner temple]

Gods the day you stop being serious.

Some people just take me too seriously.

[agile forge]

I'm loving having it again tbh

[pastel zealot]

brings me to 188 hp, should i do away with stamina regen and just plop on hp perks?

[orchid hemlock]

I never took u seriously

[hollow ibex]

Facts tbh

[inner temple]

This is good bruddah

[orchid hemlock]

What did you put on?

[full nacelle]

deadshot is very situational

[tall torrent]

If u care about specific defense breakpoints, get >200

[agile forge]

burst TTK with my vraks5 is just crazy with it

[pastel zealot]

https://i.imgur.com/GKwC2pC.png

instead of +3 stamina

[ocean idol]

Wha

what SM 2 has to do with anything

[orchid hemlock]

What about exactly 200 HP? 🤔

[full nacelle]

I run a deadshot vraks build with tunnel vision + duck and dive and it works very well if you're good with your headshots and dodges

[tall torrent]

He talked smth like plasma gun shooting at horde

[agile forge]

I got tunnel vision but no duck and dive, couldn't fit it in

there's too much shit on the left and middle trees I wanted

but it's probably worth dropping some of them to get more deadshot fuel

[tall torrent]

Die from 3 Poxburster hits

[pastel zealot]

do you reckon i keep stmaina regen and replace a +5 tough for hp?

[full nacelle]

duck and dive is free stamina all day with any kind of gunners

would recommend

[tall torrent]

What are ur curio main stats

[orchid hemlock]

If u get 2 HP and 1 toughness curio you cna get above 200 hp

[earnest bone]

150 hp guy here in all builds
what is hp

[pastel zealot]

2 +17 tough, 1 20% hp

[agile forge]

I'm running exec stance so anything shooting tends to die immediately anyway

[earnest bone]

life is hard

[tall torrent]

Run 2x health then

[thorn torrent]

Sweet, this Heresy run went flawlessly.

[ocean idol]

Probably a typo

[full nacelle]

same! just put the vod build out yesterday

[inner temple]

Good

[ocean idol]

especially since plasma gun is not anti-horde weapon in SM 2

[inner temple]

Now get to where you can carry damnation and you're good

[pastel zealot]

185 toughness and 216 hp

now

[earnest bone]

273 158

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[orchid hemlock]

Wait, can u survive 3 poxbursters with exactly 200 HP? 🤔

[full nacelle]

why you getting hit by poxbursters in the first place?

[thorn torrent]

Ive never tried damnation. I fear it.

[earnest bone]

teammates change sides

[hollow ibex]

Teammates usually

[earnest bone]

there's a traitor

[agile forge]

because I shat away all of my stamina on deadshot and can't push

[earnest bone]

and you must find who it is

[inner temple]

Its not that bad until you land in crappy modifiers which auric consists of

[full nacelle]

duck and diiiive~

I dunno. I get hit by one maybe once every 10 games.

I'd rather take the toughness

[orchid hemlock]

Do it, don't let ur dreams be dreams

[thorn torrent]

Yeah, this mission had some empowering green contagion all over the place.

[full nacelle]

maybe I just play with less traitors

[thorn torrent]

So, what's the Daemonhost? Just an xp nugget?

[orchid hemlock]

Why take toughness? Ur good enough to not get hit anyways right? 🤔

[agile forge]

maybe I can drop some of the rending and ogryn damage from the middle tree to get duck and dive

@full nacelle Do you use stamina curios?

[orchid hemlock]

Go xp, orthos, curio drop rate

[ocean idol]

Day 732 of hoping to get a second stamina 3 curio...

[full nacelle]

With deadshot? Oh definitely. Every bump in stamina is more your talents give back to you.

[pastel zealot]

https://i.imgur.com/9rmXCmK.png

[agile forge]

triple then?

[full nacelle]

now you're just getting crazy

[agile forge]

+3 stam / +17 t / +17 t then?

[full nacelle]

2 or 1 really with that build

if you can kill things faster than they can reach you 2

otherwise 1 if your teammates are leaving you to die

I've used both and both work

[tall torrent]

U can start by not using deadshot

[full nacelle]

Nah deadshot with all the finesse is absolutely nutty

I love it

I know you're not a fan

[agile forge]

I used to run this build without deadshot

but it feels so much punchier with it

[tall torrent]

Better to just go 5% perk + talent and reciprocity

[agile forge]

Like gun psyker but with better handling

[full nacelle]

why not both?

[tall torrent]

Cuz u just don’t need that many

Deadshot has way more talent point investment attached

U need ways to regen stamina

Which u otherwise don’t need

[ocean idol]

ok, i might have been too harsh in chsword judgment

it is not bad at all

just gotta get used to it higher attack speed instead of high damage

which feels weird

i feel like it should have reversed those values

[orchid hemlock]

The weekly deadshot cope discussion has begun 🙏🏻

[earnest bone]

deadshot is cool, but i don't have points, sry

[full nacelle]

I spend about 2 points to make deadshot work and one of those points paths to onslaught so really it's just one

that one point could go into grenade regen

and then the deadshot point could also go towards desperado

it's a more well-rounded build

but less fun

and less overall firepower

I like when Vraks go BRRRRRRRRRRR

[tall torrent]

Do u really need it to kill crushers

[tame lodge]

Hmmm today I will find a way to justify my All or Nothing blessing choice

[full nacelle]

it kills them in roughly 2 seconds... course you don't NEED it but it's a very safe crusher remover that lets you keep your gun out and just focus on shooting instead of having to run kraks or get up in melee

I've got plenty of other builds that do that. This build is about the vraks going stupid crazy.

variety is the spice of life

[uncut token]

There is only meta, no fun or creativity, only efficiency

Variety impacts efficiency, can’t have that.

[full nacelle]

so true king

there is only shout

shout and plasma

[inner temple]

I just take what I want and what works for me

[ocean idol]

I am addicted to agile engagmenet

=makes chsword decent

and bistol really works well there

quickly swap, one-shot something, swap to melee

[full nacelle]

I take what I want and then optimize the crap out of that playstyle

[ocean idol]

Make optimised ranged zealot

[full nacelle]

someone told me there's a build for it

[tall torrent]

U can have variety without going into deadshot ever

[full nacelle]

I want to believe

[full nacelle]

I've got tons of builds that are unique from each other that don't run deadshot

I like a good deadshot build every once in a while

makes a fun little mini-game out of a gun like the vraks that normally just plows through everything without a second thought

and rewards you for it

[tall torrent]

There’re like maybe 3 guns that actually synergize well with deadshot

[pastel zealot]

this was the sweatiest i ever had to play as a vet. look at the deaths/downed >_<

https://i.imgur.com/HHWIiCK.png

[full nacelle]

beautiful clutching my guy

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa revolver
DB shotgun

Actually high value from deadshot

[thorn torrent]

Where do you get this?

[hollow ibex]

Wait how

[pastel zealot]

the scoreboard? its a mod

[thorn torrent]

Ah

[slow spade]

Agony

[tall torrent]

DB shotgun manstopper
Agripinaa revolver can’t hit a single breakpoint without crit

[hollow ibex]

Oh yeah

[pastel zealot]

and i got this penance lmao
https://i.imgur.com/BA0gcNb.png

[full nacelle]

God DAMN! Congrats!

[pastel zealot]

my brain hurts from that run dude

cant believe i managed any of that on a high-intensity shock troop gauntlet

[full nacelle]

I'm curious why you don't add the bistol to that list? Bistol with deadshot + surgical becomes an absolutely beastly special sniper when you can hit those breakpoints it usually misses.

[ocean idol]

What build you had?

[pastel zealot]

Funny Laser Pointer lol @ocean idol

[tall torrent]

I’m really not a fan of relying on crits for breakpoints and Boltpistol has the 0.3s/stack version of surgical which is 50% worse

[full nacelle]

Ah makes sense! I don't mind it with the build that I run because I'm usually ADS'ing when I have it out so I'm pretty much guaranteed the crit. I have a run n gun build and it's definitely a playstyle change.

[tall torrent]

Also my hot take is

If the gun’s version of surgical is 0.3s/stack

And it has access to point blank

Point blank is kind of just better?

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-635629308990545194

[radiant chasm]

Surgical is a guarantee

That is what makes it strong

[tall torrent]

After 2.7s yea

[radiant chasm]

Especially when you learn your partial stacks number to crit anyways depending on build

[radiant chasm]

No, most weapons and builds get more crit

Use crit chance on hud mod

[full nacelle]

Point Blank is definitely better on a WS/melee build

[radiant chasm]

Not really either

Weapon spec gives 100% at 3 stacks

[full nacelle]

but the way I use bistol is as a special sniper/grenadier build

oh true I forgot about that

[radiant chasm]

(99% but no weapon has 1 or less crit chance)

[tall torrent]

It’s still like 1.5~1.8s for a full stack even with reciprocity up

[radiant chasm]

Plus there is always unquantifiable value in consistency and guarantee

It’s like thrust

[full nacelle]

don't forget deadshot

[radiant chasm]

You don’t take it for the dps

You take it cause you can guarantee specific breakpoints if needed

[tall torrent]

Like what

[radiant chasm]

You do not need to always use surgical but it’s always there for you

[radiant chasm]

Ones that need crit/multiple crits

[full nacelle]

I find I get a lot more value out of it than run n gun personally

[tall torrent]

Give me some examples

[radiant chasm]

I dont even use surgical on my bistol but im going meme grenadier

[full nacelle]

why not both?

[radiant chasm]

Cause i have lethal prox and puncture and puncture is weirdly good for BPs

[broken spade]

i tried surgical bistol on zealot and hated it tbh
It wasn't a piety build though so surgical just took too long

[radiant chasm]

Since i have no investment

In weakspot/crits

[tall torrent]

The guns that have surgical are

V.auto (IX and VII may care)
Boltgun (doesn’t care)
Helbore (actual synergy)
Boltpistol (can’t afford)
Revolver (point blank better)

[full nacelle]

ah gotcha... I run a lethal prox/surgical grenadier build and it works very well

[radiant chasm]

I think pointblank

[full nacelle]

and a lethal prox/run n gun build that also works very well

thinking about changing run n gun for puncture

gonna have to play it more

[tall torrent]

Point blank is actually just kind of better than surgical for revolver

[broken spade]

I don't really agree with that for revolver

[full nacelle]

say Zarona right now

[broken spade]

well not on every build

[tall torrent]

I mean both revolvers

[full nacelle]

daaaaamn

[tall torrent]

It’s kind of just better

[full nacelle]

you madman

[tall torrent]

Zarona is obvious because

[ocean idol]

what?
Recon?

[tall torrent]

The major crit breakpoints are 1 tap bodyshot ragers & stuff

[radiant chasm]

For agri, point blank is def the best

But zarona, you will always get surgical value

[pastel zealot]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c9abbca-ad8e-424c-8780-11409eba0097/funny-laser-pointer

[tall torrent]

And revolver vs rager usually looks smth like this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1301608117301280882/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.10.31_-_14.04.50.02.mp4?ex=67251885&is=6723c705&hm=47f1bf3144129763e5c1171dad184d4d5aff6788820bbe3bc945c8bc4edff2f7&

[radiant chasm]

While using it and it isn’t reliant on juggling

[full nacelle]

Why's that?

[tall torrent]

Melee kill, swap, next 5 round salvo has full +20% crit chance

[radiant chasm]

Cause i hate crucian abuse

[broken spade]

I run WS revolver
There are times where i've gotten melee kills, half healthed a crusher with a WS Crit, and needed another crit for the 2 shot but just didn't have another melee thing to kill close by so i surgical

[radiant chasm]

Is crucian bug fixed yet with ws

[tall torrent]

What melee did u run

[full nacelle]

Ohhh for a salvo heavy playstyle ok

[broken spade]

rashad

[full nacelle]

that makes sense

I rarely use salvo the way I play it

[broken spade]

the crusher isn't always close enough for melee.
sometimes i do it to save someone else

[tall torrent]

Why do u need to count on Zarona crit for crusher then

[broken spade]

I'm actually not near my teammates all of the time but sometimes they need immediate help

[radiant chasm]

Cause crucian with weapon spec counted bullets reloaded via talent as 0

Did they fix it

[tall torrent]

Why else would u play that gun

[radiant chasm]

Yea agri

[tall torrent]

Patched

[radiant chasm]

Thank god

[full nacelle]

because it's a good special sniper without salvo if you pair it with crit

[tall torrent]

Crucian now checks #ammo missing

[full nacelle]

and it also has salvo on the side for when you need it

[inner temple]

Finally psyker class is done. Just gotta level ogryn later

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1301615995789774858/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.10.31_-_14.36.38.03.mp4?ex=67251fdc&is=6723ce5c&hm=b603c932fe74e7dd56119239017a74aa3d345e3438bceba29e8020167c9be929&

[inner temple]

And thats why revolver is nutty

[full nacelle]

surgical + deadshot + reciprocity + Focus Target = lots of very good breakpoints, highly accurate first shot, faster reloads than the Zarona, great mobility through massive dodges

and I can still do that when I need to

and also take them out in two shots

[inner temple]

Congratulations

[radiant chasm]

You can out surgical and deadshot imo

Since it literally is only the first bullet for surgical and deadshot will drain your dry

[broken spade]

deadshot sounds very funny with agri revolver though

agree with dropping surgical on it

[full nacelle]

Target Down is all the stamina regen you need

surgical is what guarantees the breakpoints

with hand cannon

I wish I had nitro so I could show you

[tall torrent]

It’s missing like every breakpoint ever if u don’t crit lol

[full nacelle]

which is why you crit by ADS and stacking surgical

massive dodge windows for moving around and stacking reciprocity

guaranteed crits for days

[tall torrent]

Nah

It’s much more practical to fire twice and hope for a kill

Building that gun for consistent breakpoint is irrelevant

[full nacelle]

firing twice is much more inaccurate and blows through ammo faster meaning less uptime

it's a playstyle adjustment but it's definitely viable

people just don't realize you can actually ADS on Agripinaa without blowing your entire load

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1301617843313446933/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.10.31_-_14.44.07.04.mp4?ex=67252194&is=6723d014&hm=54c70f125afb937fa202127482f29808acacb68119e9530f2bb0fd06bad200cd&

Inaccurate how

This is without Run&gun as well

[narrow frost]

Hear me out

Ex-stance agripinna revolver

[tall torrent]

No Run&gun for spread reduction, no deadshot for recoil & further spread reduction

[full nacelle]

you are using the full auto mod and that is not reasonable to use outside of a 2 second psykanium clip

[narrow frost]

Huh

[full nacelle]

the uptime was the bigger problem though

you are using twice the ammo

[tall torrent]

What does full auto mod gotta do with accuracy again

[full nacelle]

actually decent... deadass

because if you fire back to back shots like that it takes longer for the bloom to reset in between rounds

versus firing one shot kill, switching targets while ADS

one shot kill

and again... 1 bullet versus 2 on a revolver is a big deal

lower ammo pools and constant reloads

[terse idol]

Full auto mod has nothing to dooo with that

[full nacelle]

I was just pointing out that unless you've got a really good muscle memory with the agripinaa you're not going to perfectly stop after 2 rounds every time

not saying it's not possible to use that way but that there's merit to using it as a special sniper with a crit build

[tall torrent]

That’s actually still fine

[full nacelle]

I'm gonna have to get nitro at some point...

my point is just that both playstyles for the Agripinaa are surprisingly decent

I might even go so far as to say good

[tall torrent]

Nah

At best you’re looking at what

21+5+25+20 crit chance

71%

You’re betting on crit RNG for genuinely every breakpoint ever

[full nacelle]

you can't accurately calculate crit chance on a weapon that's stacking surgical so let's not get into that

[tall torrent]

That’s assuming u wait 0.6s before firing

[tall torrent]

U can

[inner temple]

2-3 rounds take it or leave it

[tall torrent]

0.3s/stack

Wait 0.6s for 20%

I’m assuming 20% because that’s what most people will be willing to wait for on the 0.3s/stack version

[full nacelle]

that's assuming you're pocketing it between every shot

[tall torrent]

Where did I mention swapping

[full nacelle]

then why do you only have 2 stacks between every shot?

plus

Focus Target

[tall torrent]

Why would u run focus target for this gun

[tall torrent]

How long are u waiting for surgical stacks actually

Be honest

[full nacelle]

helps with breakpoints if you don't crit

[tall torrent]

Which breakpoint

[full nacelle]

situational... which is exactly why I say "you can't accurately calculate crit chance on a weapon that's stacking surgical so let's not get into that"

[tall torrent]

Then why can’t I assume 2 stacks

[broken spade]

i don't understand saying something is situational instead of just saying a situation

[full nacelle]

because that is not "accurately calculate crit chance on a weapon that's stacking surgical"

[tall torrent]

Ok give me the accurate crit chance then

[broken spade]

bring a situation you consider to be reasonable and we can accurately calculate that situation

[full nacelle]

situational... sometimes it's 2 and sometimes it's 3 and sometimes it's 4 or 5

I'll have to review footage from one of my games

yup I'm watching right now... lowest is 2 and highest is 5

generally its 3 or 4

[tall torrent]

Ok let’s say 3 stacks

21+5+25+30 = 81% crit chance

That’s roughly 20% of scenarios where u won’t get the breakpoint and need to shoot at least twice

[full nacelle]

and if you account for the breakpoints that Focus Target helps with that number becomes lower

[tall torrent]

That’s assuming u run smth that actually affords deadshot

[tall torrent]

Which breakpoints

Be specific

[narrow frost]

This entire conversation perfectly explains vet players. Doing all this math and breakpoint theory crafting. Just use 2 bullets

[tall torrent]

That’s literally what I’m saying

[narrow frost]

This is funny though

[tall torrent]

[inner temple]

Exactly. Just test and see what happens

[narrow frost]

Laughing my ass off on campus

I already got like 3 people giving me a look

[full nacelle]

and all I'm saying is you can make it into a good special sniper by making it take 1 bullet in 90% of cases

I don't know why that's a debate

[broken spade]

I'm pretty sure we're discussing breakpoints that require the crit because if focus target got you the breakpoint without it, we wouldn't need to talk about crit blessings at all

[full nacelle]

[tall torrent]

If u gotta wait for 1.5s for a guaranteed crit so u can breakpoint you might as well shoot twice

[terse idol]

Just take the zarona ima be real at this point

[full nacelle]

Nah you definitely need the crit

[tall torrent]

This is the exact same problem as thrust

[narrow frost]

Or do what I do, put 5 bullets into 1 sniper

He deserves it

[terse idol]

Average shredder gameplay

[narrow frost]

I main shredder auto

[full nacelle]

Oh don't worry I've done both. I just prefer the Agripinaa's playstyle.

[tall torrent]

Yk what gives breakpoints instead of focus target

Run&gun

Run&gun just happens to be enough for flamer 1HS

[full nacelle]

I would love a full sprint sniper build

that would be nutty

[tall torrent]

I’m not quite sure why you’re going focus target for still inconsistent breakpoints when you’re looking at a very clear fast swap speed, highly crit dependent gun that would normally need to reload a lot

[full nacelle]

because it gives 2-shot breakpoint on crushers

[thorn torrent]

Whats a breakpoint

[full nacelle]

and tons of stamina for more 1-shots

[full nacelle]

basically how many bullets it takes to kill a certain enemy

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t even use that much stamina with deadshot

[full nacelle]

if you kill a dude in one hit that's a one-hit breakpoint

[tall torrent]

At worst

[full nacelle]

it does if you're ADS'ing to stack surgical

[tall torrent]

You run the stamina regain node for WS

On top of always prepared

[full nacelle]

see you're going back to your build which is fine

[tall torrent]

Yea but that is the clear suboptimal option when u can shoot twice

This is the same exact problem as thrust

You’re counting on a time-tick bonus for a breakpoint

[full nacelle]

no it's not and I've already explained why... twice the ammo spent, less uptime on your gun

I'mma step away

[tall torrent]

You have weapon specialist to reload it tho?

[broken spade]

well, it's not exactly the same because you don't have to find ammo and reload a thunder hammer

well i guess you do kinda reload a thunder hammer

[full nacelle]

so then you're running it in YOUR build not as a mid-range special sniper that can oneshot back to back targets but as a sidearm while you're in melee

two different builds

[tall torrent]

It is the same type of problem
Wait 0.75s after readying heavy attack for 160% damage vs attacking twice for 200% damage

Wait 1.5s for guaranteed crit for breakpoint when u could shoot twice (kills faster therefore safer)

[tall torrent]

In which way is WS not good for special sniping

[broken spade]

yeah but maybe you can't shoot twice, if you have 1 bullet left
A reload takes more time than charging surgical

[full nacelle]

I didn't say it wasn't. I said it's not the same build.

[broken spade]

I would also just rather run WS
but also at that point i'd rather run zarona on that build

[full nacelle]

Different playstyles. Playing at different ranges. Offering different strengths and weaknesses.

[tall torrent]

Zarona is the very clear winner obviously but this is about the fanfire revolver

[full nacelle]

I use Zarona on my WS builds

[tall torrent]

What’s the 1 tap range

[full nacelle]

I gotta get going this has gone on for way too long

I'll post the build vod for you one day and you can tear me a new one then

[tall torrent]

Ya cuz ur build is trying to make a gun good at smth it’s inherently bad at, and in doing so you gave up on the things it does well

[full nacelle]

You just need a little more creativity sir

[tall torrent]

My creativity is understanding point blank is better than surgical for revolver

[narrow frost]

Damn

[thorn torrent]

lol

[tall torrent]

Amount of damage needed to kill an enemy in as few hits as possible

[earnest bone]

Wrong.
Just throw a frag.

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-grenades-peter-familyguy-family-gif-9926709

[narrow frost]

Better yet

Smoke nade

[thorn torrent]

I just shoot until everything is dead, or Im out of bullets 😦

12% defense on a shovel is, like, bad. Right? What exactly does that come out to in regards to defense?

[earnest bone]

would be funny if there's was an upgrade for Smoke Nades similar to World War Z, aka toxin/neurotoxin nades instead

[thorn torrent]

Helldiver gas pls.

[radiant chasm]

[radiant chasm]

It’s fine when it is upgraded

Probably bis for using it for sprinting

[ocean idol]

am i weird if i am more of melee enjoyer, but lately been playing vet way more than zealot..?

I just don't like zealot thematically

[radiant chasm]

Commando vet is a great hybrid juggler

Not weird at all

[ocean idol]

even though at this point zealot played almost as much as psyker, which i main

[thorn torrent]

Bis? I do use it for sprinting, I wasn't sure if it was actually an improvement over my bolt pistol. There's not a lot of metrics without mods, and I'm not sure about using those.

[radiant chasm]

Best in slot

[thorn torrent]

Ah ha

[radiant chasm]

Defenses is just max stam iirc, you might lose a singular bar but shovel has high stam anyways

Sorry for mmo speaking

Ttk= time to kill which is used instead of breakpoints for faster weapons like fully automatics

[thorn torrent]

Hah, I've just never seen best in slot as an acronym. So defense=stamina? Which means, what, stamina is the resource for blocking/pushing, etc?

[radiant chasm]

Defense is max stam and push cost iirc

[tall torrent]

Defences affects push, block & sprint stamina cost

[radiant chasm]

If i recall correctly

[radiant chasm]

Shovel has mobility as well

[tall torrent]

Block efficiency is affected but not mentioned

[radiant chasm]

So i dont think sprint cost is under defenses, only on weapons that have defenses but no mobility

[thorn torrent]

Interesting. Sprint stamina falls under defense. So 80 defense compared to, what, 60 is..half a bar?

Interesting.

If mobility is present, that's sprint cost. If not, defense.

[tall torrent]

Mobility is dodge distance, dodge count, sprint speed

[radiant chasm]

Nvm defenses is just listed sprint cost and push cost

I was incorrect my bad

[thorn torrent]

No prob. I'm playing with the stealth keystone now, that feels like all the defense I need sometimes 🤣

[inner temple]

Which is why I like those two at 70

[thorn torrent]

Why 70 and not 80?

[inner temple]

Because it all runs off one bar no weapon has all 80 stats

[thorn torrent]

I thought the meta was looking for 80s and the 60 dumpstat.

[tall torrent]

For most weapons yes

[inner temple]

It is. But I don't meta build I build for what works for me and what I like

[tall torrent]

There’s 1 known exception of this