veteran-class

[slow spade]

insane take

[faint beacon]

That’s a fucking hot take

[primal dune]

Fight me for it

[slow spade]

the real issue with Comp Urge isn't its values

its that it procs at the wrong times

you want it for patrols and hordes

[faint beacon]

Rending Strikes on like Vigilant Rifles is pretty insane

[hollow ibex]

Mfer only goes down the right tree at all times ig

[slow spade]

but if your teammates are killing things, then you don't need comp urge

[primal dune]

But at least it has a chance to do something unlike RS

[slow spade]

it will "proc" but when things are already being cleaned up

[faint beacon]

It’s a static 10% rending

Active always

[cedar imp]

The real underdog is demo team

[faint beacon]

Vs a chance to get a buff

[spark helm]

For yall.

[cedar imp]

Its like 30 nades per match, idk why people underappreciate it

[faint beacon]

It’s grenade regen if you can’t afford it

[cedar imp]

legit

[faint beacon]

Aka like an Infil or Exe build

[primal dune]

Which does nothing unless you have a super optimized build for it

[cedar imp]

Underrated* poor choicve of words

[slow spade]

coherency is for the weak 😎

[slow spade]

now you're trolling

[cedar imp]

It will happen natually

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-gif-26178840

[cedar imp]

When theres Elite rushes, dog rushes and the like, coherency gonna be there.

[slow spade]

brb finding 3 barrels

[cedar imp]

30 nades+ per match is nothing to shrug off of

[terse idol]

Ots not

Its not 30

Come oonn

[faint beacon]

If you get insanely lucky!

[broken spade]

you only need 1

[slow spade]

its 5% chance

its good but lets be real now

[faint beacon]

But I at most with both demo and regen on my grenadier build

Threw around 12

[spark helm]

Who cares what number it is. Free grenade on 60 seconds and free grenade when you're on a roll anyway.

[slow spade]

true

[cedar imp]

Bro count the number of elites and specials in auric

[cedar imp]

I take both

[terse idol]

Its 5% if you satisfy the conditions of always having 1 grenade slot open

[broken spade]

the problem with demo team is that the other grenade regen node is just above VoC

[cedar imp]

They are broken togheter period

[slow spade]

don't care about the elites/specials, I care about the procs

[cedar imp]

Thats why you throw them accordingly

[hollow ibex]

I pretty much always take demo team

[terse idol]

Its redundant unless you're running bistol grenadier build

[spark helm]

takes both

😱

[cedar imp]

Nah its just OP

[slow spade]

demo team is good though don't get me wrong

[hollow ibex]

I love my nades too much

[terse idol]

Its not oP!

[hollow ibex]

And it’s in a good spot in the tree

[cedar imp]

It scales with difficulty which is insane

[spark helm]

Demolition team > iron will.

[slow spade]

I miss when Demo Team gave allies nades :c

[terse idol]

Like the 60s grenade regen is good if you can afford it thst AND demoteam gets more expensive

[primal dune]

what the sigma

[spark helm]

I only recently learned that that change happened.

Game bad.

[cedar imp]

Theres litteraly moments I throw 3-4 nades in a row and keep getting them back

[slow spade]

agony :c

[cedar imp]

it just immunes your team from dog rush and elite rush

[molten oar]

Hmm...

Is Penetration important for Chainsword

[faint beacon]

Nuclear Take

[spark helm]

I'd rather have grenades than toughness dmg reduction

[slow spade]

damage is damage

[broken spade]

wha

[spark helm]

I said precisely what I said

I'm here for frags.

[faint beacon]

Iron will allowing the face tank of Mauler overheads that tracked you through a wall

[cedar imp]

I am all here for demoteam good but bro Iron will +_ all the broken toughness regen and damage reduction and shout

[molten oar]

Sooo that means I can dump Penetration?

[cedar imp]

idk man lmao

[spark helm]

Why are you getting hit with them?

[slow spade]

interesting take considering where Demo Team shines lol

[faint beacon]

I don’t but the games shit and will do that

[spark helm]

It's me. I'm the lasgun cretin.

[cedar imp]

Lmao nice card

[faint beacon]

Don’t assume I’m bad at the game kek

[spark helm]

I'm just being facetious

[primal dune]

Sending my pet zealot as we speak

[terse idol]

I'm just not a demo team stan 😌

[slow spade]

Spawn Director took this card personally

[terse idol]

Well that is if you're playing hunting pack

Me as I

Complain

[spark helm]

Like, yes, you can get clipped sometimes and I won't act like iron will isn't potent and more flexible compared because it's not like you can't just give yourself toughness or anything.

I just prefer the grenades. If I got room for iron will sure.

[lavish token]

Why would you ever willingly play hunting grounds

[spark helm]

But I don't need it to be satisfied with iron will

[cedar imp]

Nah its mostly for Elite spam dog is just a bonus

[faint beacon]

^

[terse idol]

Demo team AND grenade regen is a little redundant

[cedar imp]

since they are annoying lmao

[slow spade]

do you use Out for Blood? It makes your nades regen your toughness

[lavish token]

I take demo team unless I am pathing though voc

[cedar imp]

Euh, not really if you always keep yourself at 1 nade

[lavish token]

Out for blood is just a mandatory pick for me regardless

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/torgue-explosions-borderlands-gaming-game-gif-16537893

not if youre doing a bpistol grenadier build

[slow spade]

same

[faint beacon]

Either that or CK

[slow spade]

I personally think Out for Blood is better than Confirmed Kill

[uncut pebble]

Hunting grounds fucking sucks! The only time it should ever be played is when it's part of a maelstrom modifier.

[spark helm]

Is that the top middle tree toughness gen on spec/elite kills?

[uncut pebble]

No, that's confirmed kill.

[faint beacon]

I’ll swap between either Confirmed Kill pathing or O4B

[slow spade]

Top Left skill

[spark helm]

Hunting grounds is fine. But I like it when this game stresses me out so /shrug

[cedar imp]

Demo team ensures a rush of elites and specials to be obliterated and met with 3 grenades which demolishes any spikes of enemies, and the other on just gives nades anytime in a good rate

[uncut pebble]

Out for blood is like 5% toughness on all kills.

[slow spade]

it gives +5% toughness regen per kill

[faint beacon]

10% on melee

[uncut pebble]

Melee, grenades, ranged, DOT.

[spark helm]

Not always.

Unless I'm really trying to lean more into my lasgun play, I'm doubling down between bottom left and middle tree stuff usually.

[uncut pebble]

All of it gets 5% bonus toughness generation.

[spark helm]

I fare fine without it but I do use it

[lavish token]

10% on melee kill essentially

Kino

[terse idol]

Again

Ahh!

[slow spade]

ah if you're going for a nade heavy build, you should give it a go so your nades also give toughness per kil

[terse idol]

If you're not taking bistol i it is abit more of a waste

With tinkerer

[primal dune]

That's alright if you run exe stance, otherwise it's in a pretty shit spot on the perk tree

Out for blood that is

[slow spade]

if you use Bolter, its pretty good as it leads to Swap Speed too

[faint beacon]

It makes me torn seeing CK is also pretty fucking insane cause like if you’re aren’t constantly dropping Specials and Elites you aren’t playing Vet correctly

[spark helm]

I've never focused on grenades much but I'll consider it.

I use my infantry lasgun as an alchemical catalyst to turn heretics into grenades.

[faint beacon]

But O4B and CK are just two really fucking good pathing picks

[slow spade]

at the very least, its a useful interaction

[lavish token]

Me with double the vets damage to specialists

[spark helm]

The main meat for me is the gunplay being the spark for all the interactions but I can see the potential and likely have been benefitting from it in the past and not realizing it.

[slow spade]

clearly they need to buff Confirmed Kill to +25% toughness and +25% toughness over 10 sec UwU

[primal dune]

If you're losing toughness then elites are around anyway

[faint beacon]

CLEARLY

[faint beacon]

Makes me so fucking depressed seeing vets not prioritize dropping specials

DO YOUR JOB

[slow spade]

Born Leader + Confirmed Kill + Out for Blood

Toughness fo everyone :D

[primal dune]

Amen to that

[slow spade]

I wish people would ping

[spark helm]

I get annoyed whenever shooters are allowed to breathe period. Fuck a specialized role, shoot the dudes with the gun--

[slow spade]

I hear a bomber, no one pings

[faint beacon]

I actually ran O4B + CK with only base VOC

It was basically Golden VOC but balanced lmao

[slow spade]

I have to then straight whipping my head around for it

[spark helm]

I thought I was crazy and thar it'd change in aurics. I was wrong.

People do not ping and get salty over shit they could've been seen.

[slow spade]

yeah pisses me off

like I'm trying to kill this horde while a pox bomber is being annoying

[dawn garnet]

kill specialists
team dies to elites
kill elites
team dies to specialists

[slow spade]

but WHERE

[dawn garnet]

it never ends..............

[slow spade]

truly...

there is only war...

[lavish token]

Kill both

[slow spade]

bolter gaming

[lavish token]

They die to trash

[spark helm]

How are vigilant autoguns? Been wanting to use that and helbores for the next weapon I get to 20.

[cedar imp]

Pretty much lmao

[lavish token]

The headhunters are vet only weapons tbh

[slow spade]

they're alright but rip if a mauler or crusher comes your way

[lavish token]

Imagine shooting crushers

[spark helm]

My thing is people doing the most for the least when things go to hell.

Idk why one would focus on horde if someone get netted.

Just, get them out...

[slow spade]

Zarona revolver

[spark helm]

Infantry lasgun crit storm.

Dead crusher.

[lavish token]

I will not get someone if there’s any risk to myself

[primal dune]

dueling sword and its consequences

[dawn garnet]

my bolter was MADE for mag dumping crushers and bosses........

[molten oar]

That's why you always have a pet Zealot on hand

[spark helm]

Duelling sword is hilarious on vet.

[cedar imp]

I think this game is complex and most people can be misguided by bad youtubers like RealAsianRobot and ends up renforcing bad habits lmao

[slow spade]

true :p

[uncut pebble]

Or a pointy toothpick in your pocket.

[lavish token]

Time to post it again

[primal dune]

Ya that shits stupid

[slow spade]

the weird thing is that people used to be good at pinging. It just kind of died out around Patch 13

idk why

[molten oar]

combat knife go stab stab

[cedar imp]

No clue sincerely

[broken spade]

tfw you fight near them so you can pretend you're trying but you just hope they die faster so you can just move on

[uncut pebble]

Patch 13 was the introduction of talent trees, no?

[slow spade]

ChocoB is the only Darktide creator I watch

[slow spade]

yeah it is

[uncut pebble]

Maybe focus target users became lobotomized?

[dawn garnet]

exponential scalling btw

[slow spade]

Vet didn't have Keystones until like Patch 15

[uncut pebble]

I honestly notice I don't ping as much as I should on other classes due to my usage of focus target.

I usually just kill whatever it is.

[primal dune]

Why is Reginald so low?

[slow spade]

Vet didn't even have keystones at the start :p

[broken spade]

i also just ping more on weapons that need to charge like plasma or any of the staves

[slow spade]

I blame Fatshark

idk why but somehow its their fault

[cedar imp]

ChocoB, Telepots are amazing, Tanner Lindberg has consistently had the best Darktide takes in terms of theory crafting and its not even close, his builds just made the game easy for me by a mile. Truly made me become a one man army that can carry almost anything.

Any other creator just doesnt have the same level of build quality in terms of effectiveness period. And ill die on that hill if anything

[broken spade]

so true

[dawn garnet]

so tru so tru i exclusively run tanner builds

[spark helm]

I. Have never heard of this person lol.

But people can develop habits mostly due to what they're conditioned with different builds.

I'll puff my chest out because I can back it up most of the time anyway: I don't have to worry about myself when I'm out here with shit like the duelling sword because my overall fundamentals are just out here like that and I've been playing high mobility/attack speed/weakspot/finesse weapons since vt2.

I know what happens when I flub. 😆

[slow spade]

I like seeing people perform at the pinnacle so I usually just watch people like Choco

[spark helm]

Years of shade kerillian dual dagger

[cedar imp]

He does

[primal dune]

True but you have to brace yourself a bit for tangents and some seething

[spark helm]

The pain of hubris is strong for the dexbastard.

[cedar imp]

He did 4 man auric maelstrom no talents gray items only

[slow spade]

indeed, just stating what I like a lot

[dawn garnet]

ive learned a lot watching telo

[narrow frost]

oh no

dorn typing

[lavish token]

That’s less impressive than you think

[narrow frost]

knew it

[cedar imp]

LMAO true tho

[slow spade]

funnily enough I had someone try that too

[thick kestrel]

I'm partial to Rykan personally... he uploads slow but tends to do some good digging and legwork

[slow spade]

I don't think they were fully sentient

but they tried...

[thick kestrel]

he's admittedly split between here and helldivers but he's broadly a good egg

[shadow dagger]

is this pre multinerf survivalist behavior

[primal dune]

A fair price for knowledge

[cedar imp]

Its not something to shrug off either tho

[hollow ibex]

if only ryken doesn't get distracted by HD2/space marines D:

but ig who doesn't

[spark helm]

Me.

[cedar imp]

I do wonder if 4 man no talents and gray items is harder than duo runs

[spark helm]

Darktide distracted me from hd2 lol

[cedar imp]

I did quite some duo runs and I would be down for 4 man gray items no talents run for the sake of it

[spark helm]

I was waiting for the stupid progression system to die for ages

[slow spade]

No VoC in a maelstrom is absolutely harder than Duos

[thick kestrel]

can't blame him, it's smart for creators to spread themselves out a bit these days. particularly with how fragile some communities tend to be and you don't want to devolve into salt-tubing

[cedar imp]

Very likely

[broken spade]

which maelstrom though?

[narrow frost]

2

[spark helm]

Main reason why darktide would fall out of rotation so regularly. I hated the process even after I got good/good enough weapons with rolls.

[slow spade]

Malice 😎

[cedar imp]

I think 4 man no perks and gray is harder than 2 man with full perks and such

[spark helm]

Fuck that casino.

[broken spade]

if it's melee only and everyone was like trauma and flamer, doesn't sound too bad

[hollow ibex]

yeah that multiple layers of rng was really bullshit

[narrow frost]

1 trauma staff can solo a CIVI

[broken spade]

i assume no curios cause they won't be grey

[spark helm]

My issue was how little you got per mission.

One weapon or curio? Really?

[hollow ibex]

emperor's "blessing"

[grizzled pebble]

I heard trauma staff is banned in melee scab only. If you use it your account get nuked.

[hollow ibex]

though currency was always the real bottleneck

[faint beacon]

Trauma truly just turning the game off as much as Smite does lmao

[cedar imp]

Isnt bad without any blessings or the like tho/ perks + nodes?

[dawn garnet]

peak balance

[narrow frost]

Did someone by the name of dorn say so?

hmmm

[broken spade]

It's true, i come to ur house and delete your account

[grizzled pebble]

No some unsanctioned guy threaten me in game.

[narrow frost]

lmao

ask dorn to bomb them

[dawn garnet]

its tru i was banned

[primal dune]

The stickybomb launcher of darktide

[warm bolt]

Sorry to hijack the conversation but how do i use recon lasgun? Is it more of a horde clearer or should i magdump into larger enemies?

[cedar imp]

Bro send that clip to people that think are useful for spamming smite on auric maelstrom and think its S ++++ TIER

[spark helm]

You should be happy to wait possibly days at a time for a roll for a weapon that may or may not be made and broken by one 10% tier of numbers.

Also, here's another incompatible blessing set for you ❤️

[narrow frost]

depends on the build and playstyle, I use mine to snipe elites and bosses

and then an axe for horde clear

[grizzled pebble]

Ep smite is op tho

[spark helm]

I am going to kill you Melk

[broken spade]

flamer does good damage with literally nothing
Trauma still knocks over everything.
With absolutely nothing, i imagine toughness to be an issue but there's no gunners to worry about in melee only

[slow spade]

you can do both is the problem

which one do you like?

[narrow frost]

ham carry

[shadow dagger]

special/elite laser pointer is the most expected role of recon las

[cedar imp]

Im suprised to hear that, I thought it heavily depended on Uncanny procs on melee and afterwards shooting doesnt it?

[dawn garnet]

ham stole my soulblaze stacks 😭

[shadow dagger]

but also just run shock trooper and shoot most things that move

[broken spade]

well for crushers yeah
The trauma users would have to handle it

[cedar imp]

Is it decent against flak on its own?

[lavish token]

Ah classic crutch of command

[cedar imp]

Imma admit I didnt try it yet

[primal dune]

I can't stand using VoC anymore

[cedar imp]

I know that flamer is good depending heavily on skill level, the build that goes with it and your mechanical skill to shoot knifes Blitz

[dawn garnet]

baby vet jail is right next to gay baby jail

[warm bolt]

I feel like it's more useful for hordes so i want to say that cause helbore makes me go for bosses not other options?

[warm bolt]

Ah i see, i just picked the most liked build from that build website the launcher recommended

[narrow frost]

I can show you mine

try it and see how you like it

[spark helm]

Marksman focus fun.

[broken spade]

flamer does well on flak even with nothing yeah
I remember leveling an alt zealot a long time ago and a low level zealot with flamer still does fine.

[warm bolt]

Would be glad to!

[cedar imp]

I wish maintaining stacks were more forgiving, I hate the gameplay loop but its objectively really good damage bonus

[narrow frost]

one sec

I keep seeing things to change

[faint beacon]

Lmao

[narrow frost]

the reason why I love vet

[spark helm]

I love it. When I'm in a drought it definitely feels bad though. But usually, my builds have at least one melee option that's consistent enough to not have me be utterly fucked should I get forced to stay in melee.

[cedar imp]

Its ammo hungry node and mental stack heavy too but its worth it

I just dont find it fun to maintain

[spark helm]

I like to shoot my gun. :U

🔫

[cedar imp]

Fair enough

[warm bolt]

Ah i see, gonna try it out today, thanks a lot!

[narrow frost]

Going to send the weapon as well

[cedar imp]

I know you can 1 tap normals with enough stacks of marksman making somehow the colomnus anti horde lmao

[faint beacon]

Being reminded to make an Exe Vigilant Rifle build

[spark helm]

Now you're thinking with portals.

[faint beacon]

Should do that when I’m home

[cedar imp]

😛

[faint beacon]

Break free of the shackles that is anything even remotely near VOC

[broken spade]

sorry, i'm already a slave to VoC

[spark helm]

Marksman focus becomes a lot easier to maintain when you remember that anything getting popped in your sights fast enough will just ramp your damage.

Go full auto. Fuck em.

What are they gonna do? Block your fire?

[faint beacon]

Base VOC I can find it a wee bit more respectable but it goes from crutch to just extremely strong

[cedar imp]

Its just so damn good. Stealth has terrible nodes around it but in a vacum would be S tier and executioner's stance is a A-B tier ult

[faint beacon]

Golden Toughness is a win button

[faint beacon]

Relentless being in base kit made me like it hell of a lot more

[cedar imp]

Litteraly

2 shout vets litteraly and entirely renders a team immortal

[spark helm]

VoC is fundamentally strong no matter how it's sliced. Kruber/saltzpyre players incapable of going hungry.

[cedar imp]

if they run CDR curios with CDR node +6 seconds CDR on Specialist kill, its joever

[broken spade]

i hate that the cheapest path to infiltrate is through smoke bombs. I would never want both in the same build if it didn't save points

[cedar imp]

its just easy gg

[warm bolt]

Ooo dumdum i like the sound of that

[spark helm]

https://tenor.com/view/kingpin-kingpin-clicking-pen-clicking-pen-spider-verse-into-the-spider-verse-gif-5180708998338482135

[split grove]

i love being immortal

[cedar imp]

We barely know what those nodes actually does, also its really inconsistent which explains my 1st point and offensive tools are oftentimes better than defensive and its not a good defensive tool so like, what is going on with that grenade for real lmao

[spark helm]

Me descending into madness every time smoke grenades get a buff of any kind

I want it

[broken spade]

even if someone got smoke bombs working consistently for them, why the fuck would someone want smokes and invis on the same build? They already can't see you

[cedar imp]

Also the better you are, the less you need smoke nades, if your positionning is good, gunners are never really an isssue ,etc etc. Its ceiling is the very floor I am walking on at this point lmao

[cedar imp]

lmao

[broken spade]

They can't see me so i should drop a smoke and fuck my visibility to make it fair i guess

[spark helm]

Short answer is is that it's for fiends that obsess over even a second of a window of opportunity.

[cedar imp]

I mean could be extremely broken with nades regens and if stealth had better cooldown and smoke nades rendered you invis or barely touchable or anything, it could be broken if those two were good at the same time I think

But the cooldown on Vet stealth is something to shrug and those smoke nades doesnt even exists at this point its placebo

[spark helm]

It forces shooters to actually stop now even if they're not in the smoke themselves.

[broken spade]

personally i don't like anti ranged stuff like smoke bombs or psyker shields anyways
just dodge the bullets

actively hurts zealots with their dodge talents too

[cedar imp]

True, but also the better you are, the less good ranged enemies are

So it just scales inversely with player skill

[spark helm]

Fuck them.

[hollow ibex]

based

[broken spade]

i tried playing smoke and by the time the nade detonated, i have already run up to the gunner and stabbed them

[hollow ibex]

smoke really needs to have a shorter fuse

or become an impact grenade

[cedar imp]

Lmao

[broken spade]

at least bubble has the courtesy of being instant

[hollow ibex]

i think smoke should also set out fires to provide a bit more utility

[broken spade]

that would genuinely be really cool

[hollow ibex]

but smoke's prob never going to change now

[cedar imp]

Bro that would be genuinely great game design

[hollow ibex]

it's never gonna happen 😭

[broken spade]

csgo smokes basically

at least i'm pretty sure they do that

[spark helm]

I think they're just scared to give the utility dispenser class more utility.

Ranger veteran smoke would heal and all that.

[cedar imp]

Imma blame being cooked by fire because our smokes doesnt instiguish them now, truly not a skill isssue on my hand 👀

Its free copium

Ill take it

[spark helm]

Smoke feels much better to use nowadays but it is a a very whatever nade compared to the other two.

I still like em.

[elfin orchid]

smoke is weird and kind of inconsistent

not a good combo

[spark helm]

Wouldn't know where it's inconsistent. Or at least I've never felt it matter.

[faint beacon]

Smoke is there

It’s not good nor bad

[elfin orchid]

being a continent away from survivalist does not help

[faint beacon]

It kinda just exists

[spark helm]

It's a nice tool for blindspot coverage on risky plays. But that's assuming the person is even leaning into that risk/can make it count.

[broken spade]

idk i'd consider the visibility loss actually bad

[spark helm]

Just shoot into the smoke?

I'm not even trying to be an ass. Do folks just lose faith in their shots when they know the head placement of enemies?

[broken spade]

it's basically just ventilation purge but on your grenade

god forbid it actually be ventilation purge or lights out

[spark helm]

It's unironically me.

I ping through crowds anyway so idk.

Some shit just doesn't really matter to me when it comes to the visual confirmation.

[broken spade]

maybe i should bring it to lights out and throw them randomly while yelling "daemonhost"
lots of people use smoke as the indication for where they are

[spark helm]

That's an interesting use of them lol

I never considered ir

I just look for the rime on the screen to build.

[broken spade]

would be a funny prank

[cedar imp]

Lmao its bad tho ☠️

[spark helm]

Sometimes I pop barrels and pox bursters to bring people into coherency lmao

I'll even burn voc for it while they're flying towards me.

Bigger brains, better plays. 🧠

[cedar imp]

Smokes puts you in a bad place of the talen tree, afterwards its just one of the worst blitzes of the game on top of it

[faint beacon]

Vet players when thing isn’t shredder or VOC thus bad

[broken spade]

but really i just don't like smokes cause dodging shots usually isn't that hard, and the nades are clunky enough to use that it isn't much easier

[faint beacon]

Then we wonder why people say our class is OP

[broken spade]

like the times i die to gunner are like instant deaths from surprise gunners

[cedar imp]

Its almost like nothing exists in a vaccum and you have to consider the whole

[faint beacon]

Smokes really only help with two scenarios

[broken spade]

smokes aren't instant enough for those

[cedar imp]

I dont wonder, our class is OP

[faint beacon]

Gunner packs and Snipers

[spark helm]

I'd like to be able to keep my grenade option out instead of being forced to switch back

[faint beacon]

Hence it should be gutted lmao

[broken spade]

shoot them or dodge idk

[misty delta]

they kinda maybe sometimes help with trappers and flammers but why are you having problems with trappers and flamers

[spark helm]

The voc fiends will send pipebombs to their po box.

They not risking it.

[cedar imp]

Doesnt have to be gutted but some nerfs could be actually healthy to keep a level of challenge, you dont have to break Vet's legs, but nerfing some overpowered nodes could do something

[broken spade]

snipers are a threat when you don't know they are there or during a revive
The smoke helps for the latter i guess

[cedar imp]

6 seconds on specialist kill is overpowered period, considering its better with CDR curios

My golden toughness lasts longer than the next shout like whats

[faint beacon]

There’s so many things that are completely busted with Vet it’s not even funny that I’m perfectly contempt with breaking the classes legs

[cedar imp]

And golden toughness is broken

[misty delta]

I do appreciate smokes for revives and objectives tbh

[cedar imp]

So like

Vet is OP

[floral hearth]

always was

[cedar imp]

But also Zealot lmao

[misty delta]

but only when my teammates are incompetent

[broken spade]

tbh every class is just different flavours of op

[cedar imp]

Good swtup one shots a boss with knigfe on Zealot

[misty delta]

this ^

[broken spade]

i play vet psyker zealot all pretty equally.
It's just a matter of which skill i want to ignore for the round

[uncut pebble]

The only thing op about zealout at this point is second wind and dsmk4, but you can't even blame dsmk4 because it's op on all 3 classes.

[cedar imp]

Ogryn is the only non-op class in my books

[hollow ibex]

gigachad rejects (the ones that aren't died a long time ago)

[hollow ibex]

ogryn is prob the most broken of them all wdym

[faint beacon]

Zealot is due for a tree rework

[uncut pebble]

Zealout has to deal with many, many point taxes, and thats the main drawback of the class.

[broken spade]

zealot when i want to ignore worrying about death, psyker when i don't want to think too hard to deal top damage, vet when i just want to overall lower the difficulty with VoC

[uncut pebble]

Took the words out of my mouth.

[faint beacon]

We’re going to see Dorn live send an ultimatum

[cedar imp]

Why so?

[broken spade]

i don't play ogryn cause they're fat

[faint beacon]

Cause they’re going to make it OP lmao

[uncut pebble]

Ogryn isn't broken.

In fact, ogryn keystones fucking suck.

[elfin orchid]

ogryn nades are busted and they have some good active abilities

[hollow ibex]

the fact that the entire class is balanced around shit weapons tells you everything you need to know

[elfin orchid]

the rest of their tree is kind of stinky

[uncut pebble]

Box sucks.

[broken spade]

good to hear we have 1 non-broken class then

[cedar imp]

Ogryn not being good agaisnt gunners overall and specials just brings it down a notch

[uncut pebble]

Ask any ogryn with their head on straight, they'll tell you that box sucks.

[misty delta]

the only good ogryn ability imo is the gun one

[hollow ibex]

i mean yeah like every other class, parts of its tree aren't great

[broken spade]

i remember back when they were op with kickback
I guess those times are over

[uncut pebble]

Like Slab, Hug, anyone that wrote the ogrynomicon...

[spark helm]

We just going to act like we can't use stubbers?

[elfin orchid]

sorry i should specify, frag bomb is nutty screenclearing with each throw

[uncut pebble]

Indomitable is great to knock down everything.

[elfin orchid]

the other two are funny

[misty delta]

just play a vet

[hollow ibex]

all the ogryn ults are good

[uncut pebble]

Give rocks cleave.

[cedar imp]

How would you make it OP talent tree wise then?

[hollow ibex]

buff the right hand side keystone, revert nerfs, done

[raven rune]

If ogryn is that bad how come I dont see sweat players complaining about others picking them in lobbies?

[misty delta]

because it’s not a competitive game

hell I run autopistol and people are fine with it

[broken spade]

people used to complain about ogryn more back when they blocked bullets

[hollow ibex]

they used to be annoying as fuck. but since you can shoot through them now, it's mostly fine

[misty delta]

and they’re not bad bad their just not as broken as everyone else

[cedar imp]

I messed my question. But you said it could be OP, what would you pick loadout wise to be OP?

[tiny summit]

People that dont think ogryn is op are ogryn brained

[uncut pebble]

Most all of the issues with ogryn being a teammate have been alleviated.

[elfin orchid]

tbh the worst of every other class is worse than the worst of ogryn

[raven rune]

I seen some complain abt weapons I got

And lets not talk abt mfs complaining about recon lasguns

[faint beacon]

Unless it’s Heavy Hitter

[uncut pebble]

This is just wrong, I am zealout brained and I don't believe ogryn is op.

[faint beacon]

That’s the only exception

[hollow ibex]

karsolas shovel or shield, nuke or rock, lugger build with rumbler, kickback or achlys

[elfin orchid]

recon las are decent

[spark helm]

People just don't really kick that much in my experience.

Only been kicked once and that was for double-dipping into ammo crate.

Which...who gives a fuck.

[uncut pebble]

See, the issue with heavy hitter is it only really sees good usage in scab only maels.

[misty delta]

fax. I’ve seen some horrendous vets in this very chat

[broken spade]

ogryn can still be pretty strong with their high gun damage or high toughness dr with quick toughness recovery from melee

[spark helm]

I also wasn't playing too good that run lol

[uncut pebble]

Otherwise you can unironically just rock on without it and have great success.

[tiny summit]

The faith guides ye

[hollow ibex]

easy top damage every match while being the tankiest guy on your team

[faint beacon]

I’ve only kicked 2 for being AFK

[broken spade]

it's just not the same kind of braindead as other classes

[uncut pebble]

I have kicked 5 people, and 4 of them were afk.

[faint beacon]

I’d argue it’s useful in every situation

[broken spade]

you can get braindead gun ogryn damage if you eat all the ammo in the game but your teammates will hate you

[elfin orchid]

heavy hitter almost an actual keystone

[uncut pebble]

The 5th was using a quell cancel surge staff macro.

[faint beacon]

Cause if you’re running a melee Ogryn you’re unkillable in hordes

Just when you’re out in the open

With gunners

[elfin orchid]

lolll

i dont mind

[faint beacon]

You’re very vulnerable

[tiny summit]

Ogryn. Having the same mobility defenses of the others because of dodging mechanics on top of having some of the best tank, sustain, stagger and dmg

[uncut pebble]

This is cool until you remember car sales 1shots anything that isn't an elite out of the box.

And with slaughterer stacks you can 1shot ragers and whatnot.

[broken spade]

ogryns do have really good toughness dr and sustain

[hollow ibex]

ogryn is just high skill gameplay.

[spark helm]

If they wanted the ammo, they would've picked it up.

I stopped being more altruistic in this game a while ago. I won't hog every ammo drop but I've had too many just ignore resources even after I type and ping and even voice chat.

Fuck em.

[gilded wraith]

Burn stacking on Gun Lugger does obscene things to monstrosities.

[hollow ibex]

yeah lugger damage output is pretty insane

[elfin orchid]

i intentionally play builds that will be lenient with ammo so i can let people running like vraks IA vet and point blank barrage ogryn can do their thing more

[raven rune]

Pretty sure yall forget ogryn is mostly support class?

Its a tank and crowd controler, not exactly dps in my book

[hollow ibex]

i'm constantly top damage as ogryn lol

[broken spade]

i don't think calling it a support class really makes sense

[spark helm]

Idk why the fuck people ignore stimms, medical stimms at that or celerity stimms running gun builds. Makes no sense.

[cedar imp]

Bro people are blind its crazy ☠️

[raven rune]

Nice haha

[elfin orchid]

the closest thing to support in this game is vet shout spam

[tiny summit]

Still won't forget a plasma vet saying "dumb gunker, stealing all the ammo" all the while I barely picked up ammo that match

[hollow ibex]

half the people in the game prob don't know what stimms do besides med stimm and damage stimm

[faint beacon]

I ran mine with SkC BM Paul

[broken spade]

it has very high dps potential, and VoC vet has better support potential anyways.

[faint beacon]

Has a similar result

[broken spade]

if anything, vet is the support class

[lime arrow]

100% agree

[raven rune]

I mostly only ever use the medic or the combat ones

I either forget or never have the need for the others

[hollow ibex]

celerity stimm is basically a dps bonus with QOL on top of it

[spark helm]

Plasma vet.

They already fuckin up

[raven rune]

...thats possible?!

[hollow ibex]

and the concentration stimm is also nice for fast recharge

[broken spade]

...

[elfin orchid]

tactical awarness

[spark helm]

I just can't personally be out here not with pickup slots loaded. Even if it's not super relevant to what I'm doing or even the situation, I'm taking that slot yk?

It's a free slot that will do something

[elfin orchid]

also something has probably gone very wrong if theres not a psykinetic aura psyker in your party

[spark helm]

And if you don't want it, you can pass it or use it on someone else like.

[broken spade]

sometimes there's actually no psykers

[raven rune]

Yeah same thought but my gameplan still stand I more than not am not gonna use it lol

[broken spade]

but vet can spam anyways

[cedar imp]

YIOOOO

[raven rune]

Noted

[broken spade]

tactical awareness not getting nerfed is insane to me

they've reworked zealot crit cdr 3 times

[cedar imp]

Can we talk about one of the best nodes of the game? Psyckinetic aura is crazy

[elfin orchid]

tactical awareness not being orange bothers me

[spark helm]

All tools are tools of staying alive and keeping pace with the challenges the game is throwing at us is where I'm at is all.

It's like uh, psykers going full warp only builds ignoring ammo crates or zealots doing the same.

Brother, it's resources pick that shit up

[elfin orchid]

if noone else picks up the ammo crate ill grab it

[spark helm]

Depending on your build though, stimms are incredibly redundant or only provide a small edge to something else.

[broken spade]

you can also just hand the items to other people

[cedar imp]

Than Stimm a teamate in the right time, or hold it to give later

[elfin orchid]

i need to get better at checking my teammates ammo pools

[umbral scaffold]

Med stimms

[cedar imp]

Stimms are just amazing

[spark helm]

I guess they're more interesting on psykers overall though.

[hollow ibex]

stimms are always good. i will always take them

i don't even care what type of stimm

i'll take take it

give me those drugs

inject them straight into my veins

[elfin orchid]

med stims are busted and make wounds even more comedically irrelevant

[spark helm]

Medical stimms get to be in their own category to me. That's just a second chance button.

[cedar imp]

Charging faster trauma staff with blue stimm is funny as hell

[raven rune]

... classes with weapons that dont use bullets (aka just staves pretty dure) cant even pick up ammo?

[tiny summit]

Im a good soldier of the Emperium and I heard Big E say no to heretic stims

[umbral scaffold]

Lol on heresy I wait till I'm wounded then pop it

[raven rune]

I understand your point but bruh

[elfin orchid]

ammo CRATE

[spark helm]

The ammo crates specifically, not the pickups.

[elfin orchid]

box that you place down

[raven rune]

Oh, yeah I pick up ammo crates as a full warp psyker

[cedar imp]

Rending + damage boost (red stim)

And faster charge time on staff (blue stimm) is nothing to ignore

Yellow stim is free ults so always good

Green is just stupidly good

[raven rune]

Oh celerity increases speed of the weapon????

[elfin orchid]

i only play gunker nowadays and i still almost never pick up ammo

[cedar imp]

Increases staff charge rate

[hollow ibex]

It makes you fire faster

[spark helm]

I pick up ammo crates whenever I see a veteran because I gamble on them taking field improvisation and I get a sick rush thinking about my grenades getting refilled Just looking out for myself and team is all

[elfin orchid]

celerity is an attack speed boost all around

[cedar imp]

25% asfaik

[spark helm]

And stam jump

[gilded wraith]

Bless you! Teach other Gunkers the way!

[thick kestrel]

can be delightfully silly on recon lasguns :>

[umbral scaffold]

Btw field imp doesn't cure wound corruption

[raven rune]

Oh shit I thought it was just stamina and movement speed 💀

[umbral scaffold]

Fir med stations

[spark helm]

Yeah it does, unless thar changed.

[cedar imp]

Underrated feature, blue stim saved me so often by giving stamina back when extremely low and extra movement its crazy. Blue stim is get out of jail free card

[gilded wraith]

Just partial wounds?

[umbral scaffold]

I played one this week (I was the one running field imp) it didn't work

[spark helm]

It's a meager amount but can lose corruption. Unless there's a distinction from downed wounds?

[uncut pebble]

Field improv doesn't break a full corrupted wound iirc.

[umbral scaffold]

No like downed wounds

[uncut pebble]

Only partial corruption.

[spark helm]

Ah

Got you

[gilded wraith]

Ahh.

[uncut pebble]

Same way that beacon of purity does it.

[elfin orchid]

field improv is for giving your ogryn buddy a dozen extra frag bombs to nuke half the map with

[tiny summit]

Just dont refer to it as wounds if it hasnt been fully corrupted. Its just corruption at that point

[thick kestrel]

only stims and medicae stations can remove fully lost wounds. the medkit regen and zealot aura basically cleanse you up to your next full wound mark then stops.

[umbral scaffold]

Ye, that's what I was saying

[runic axle]

Are power swords good? Melk has this and I'm wondering if I should grab it

[umbral scaffold]

I mean wounds as In downs

[spark helm]

It goes even crazier on psyker.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/pickups

[cedar imp]

Stimmfo mod will tell you all the effects of it.

The blue one does the following :

+100% stamina restore
-50% stamina cost on sprint
-25% push block stamina cost
+25% quell / staff charge and brain burst
+15% reload speed

• 20% attack speed (fire rate)

Afaik that is all

[spark helm]

It's really good :^)

[cedar imp]

I have a hard time trusting this website since they called stamina oftentimes uselss

Im like wtf lmao

Get outta here

[tiny summit]

Doesnt it affect plasma too?

[uncut pebble]

Stims are unironically better on psyker.

[spark helm]

Scrier's gaze + max DD + full auto ranged weapon + dastardly melee + celerity stimm = $$$

[umbral scaffold]

Green stimms are draughts from vermintide

[uncut pebble]

Go take a look at combat stims effects on peril.

[raven rune]

Ik I alrd did malleum monostrum penance but damn if I knew back then

[cedar imp]

Shoots faster

[pliant kayak]

What should I replace Mercy Killer with? Executor?

[uncut pebble]

You don't.

[elfin orchid]

precog

[cedar imp]

Replace uncanny instead

[uncut pebble]

You keep mercy killer and run serrated blade.

[cedar imp]

Precog or Extra crit chance on dodge

[faint beacon]

Run serrated and that’s an insane Vet knife

[uncut pebble]

Uncanny + mercy killer + serrated blade talent is BIS for combat knife.

[faint beacon]

Talent

[spark helm]

Just keep thinking for yourself with the intent behind your decisions is how I go about it.

Acknowledging what's broadly strong is nice, ignoring what functions are is some shit i can't get behind.

[elfin orchid]

serrated blade is two filler perks away from survivalist and shredders

just run precog

[uncut pebble]

If, for whatever reason, you're not running serrated blade, you could run uncanny + precog/riposte (pick your poison) for your knife.

I cannot recommend precog in good conscience because it's a 2s duration.

Riposte works well with the talents over by weapon spec because you can get consistent crit rates.

[cedar imp]

Yo go Flesh tearer with Mercy killer + reciprocity + the other crit chance on melee and you are golden

Or you can do combination of flesh tearer + risposte

[uncut pebble]

Do NOT run flesh tearer.

I will skin you alive.

[cedar imp]

Yes you do

[uncut pebble]

[cedar imp]

Flesh tearer allows for bleed which kills hordes faster with the knife

[pliant kayak]

Seem like this thing has way more blessing option than I thought.

[elfin orchid]

flesh tearer riposte mk6 isnt terrible

[pliant kayak]

I can't even choose

[tall torrent]

Executor is not worth on mk3

[uncut pebble]

Flesh tearer is a zealout blessing because of their inherently high crit rate and usage of piety.

Vet does not need it.

You literally have better lacerate as a talent.

[cedar imp]

Vet has high crit on his 2 nodes tho

[tall torrent]

Flesh tearer is ok

[cedar imp]

Lacerate is bad because you want to aim weakspots and it has less bleed stacks

Lacerate is terrible even

[uncut pebble]

And if you don't run serrated blade, you shouldn't be running bleed to begin with.

[faint beacon]

Uncanny + Serrated teehee

They don’t know

[orchid hemlock]

the reason u go lacerate is to proc mercy, that's it

[uncut pebble]

That's why it's better lacerate. Serrated blade doesn't require bodyshots.

[faint beacon]

It’s why People unironically run Lacerate + Uncanny

[uncut pebble]

1 stack of bleed on all melee attacks.

[faint beacon]

Uncanny rending effects bleed btw

[uncut pebble]

Meaning mercy killer and uncanny strike are the best blessings if you're using serrated blade.

If youre not using serrated blade, don't bother with bleed.

Also, isn't serrated blade right next to agile engagement?

[elfin orchid]

sure but it also doesnt do anything lol

1 stack

[uncut pebble]

You are insane.

[pliant kayak]

The thing is that I don't want to run Krak/Smoke so it's gonna take more point to get serrated blade

[cedar imp]

I think you are

[uncut pebble]

1 stack of bleed makes mercy killer work.

[cedar imp]

1 bleed stack isnt good

[faint beacon]

No no let them cook

I want to see what they say

[uncut pebble]

60% free weakspot damage for touching an enemy once.

[elfin orchid]

precog >>>>

[uncut pebble]

You gotta be trolling now.

[cedar imp]

Also theres very high crit chance on Vet if you want, you dont need lacerate

[faint beacon]

Rending bleeding lmao

[uncut pebble]

You aren't understanding I'm not advocating for lacerate, apparently.

[hollow ibex]

it's to proc mercy killer

[cedar imp]

If you dont go flesh + Mercy killer just go riposte and precog and its like the most generic good build

[uncut pebble]

I'm advocating for serrated blade.

[cedar imp]

You proc it with flesh so what?

[uncut pebble]

Consistency.

[tall torrent]

There’s a difference between “having it immediately available at all times” vs “having it available 50~70% the time”

[uncut pebble]

Flesh tearer requires a crit, serrated blade doesnt.

[cedar imp]

Knife has like 10% crit or so + 25% reciprocity + other +10% crit node that like what 45% crit?

[faint beacon]

Lacerate Uncanny is more Zealots thing seeing that’s how they get the rending bleed to synergize more effectively

[tall torrent]

Actually no, without riposte you’re not even looking at 70%

It’s around 50% with full reciprocity stacks

[cedar imp]

You can litteraly do 1-2 M'1s, proc the bleed and spam Heavies, or spam heavies till the proc and the overall dps is better

[faint beacon]

Okay but like hear me out

[tall torrent]

Do u know what the highest dps combo is for knife

[faint beacon]

Swing head level for RENDING BLEED STACKS

[uncut pebble]

I feel like I need to point out that you are now arguing with the guy who wrote the vet guide...

[faint beacon]

So true frog

[cedar imp]

Depends if we talk about sustained or burst

[uncut pebble]

Pretty sure he has actual numerical evidence to support all of his arguments.

[tall torrent]

Just in general

[orchid hemlock]

for mercy what is the other blessing u take assuming u have serraded?

[faint beacon]

Gotta remind myself to give path the Falter Stagger BPs lmao

[tall torrent]

I’m not checking ranged weapons’ falter stagger breakpoints

[faint beacon]

Information is information yes it’s ass

But I’ll do it

[earnest bone]

you guys discussing things

while level 700 vet

uses Rampage / Hammerblow

Dclaw

fml

[uncut pebble]

Mercy killer + uncanny strike is the BIS setup for a serrated blade tree.

[elfin orchid]

precog, riposte, uncanny are all good bets

[cedar imp]

I dont have them readily available, but it feels extremely counter intuitive to hit non weakspots just to proc Mercy killer but ay, im willing to read the guide if you will.

[uncut pebble]

READ WITH YOUR EYES

[faint beacon]

Falter hammerblow Shaul

[uncut pebble]

SERRATED BLADE DOESNT NEED BODYSHOTS

[faint beacon]

Level 721 Vet btw lmao

[uncut pebble]

IT PROCS BLEED ON HEADSHOTS

[terse idol]

It just needs to hit lol

[uncut pebble]

[tall torrent]

Riposte is the fun pick that’s never bad, uncanny is the safe boring pick

[cedar imp]

Thats zealot tho

isnt it?

[tall torrent]

That’s not what I wrote in my guide

[elfin orchid]

no thats scourge

[runic axle]

Guess I'm leveling the shovel now

[elfin orchid]

which is on a whole nother level cuz of the +30% crit chance

[hollow ibex]

be a chad and use the mk1 shovel

[tall torrent]

this is what I wrote for knife

[runic axle]

The one I currently have is Mk1

[uncut pebble]

That's scourge!

Which is built in flesh tearer for zealout!

Vet has lacerate built in!

[runic axle]

That very same store rotation also had this, so I guess I'm leveling shovels, axes and revolvers now

[uncut pebble]

That's what I've been trying to tell you but you're being willfully ignorant!

[tall torrent]

U can use mercy killer, it’s ok, but it needs you to take serrated blade pathing
On top of knife needing like 7 dedicated talents in bottom right to feel good to play
The talent point cost goes pretty crazy

[cedar imp]

Its a difference between that and misunderstanding.

[uncut pebble]

Idk, I've spelled it out like 8 times now as to what serrated blade does.

[cedar imp]

Serrated blade tho is in a bad place in the skill tree which is why I wouldnt consider it worth it, but agree to disagree

[cedar imp]

I thought it was counfounded with lacerate and thats on my part

[uncut pebble]

It's right next to agile engagement.

[cedar imp]

my apologies

[tall torrent]

It’s not that bad of a place because you’re likely gonna take agile engagement if you don’t go survivalist

[runic axle]

You can re-bless and re-fine stuff as much as you want, right? It's not a 1 time deal anymore?

[tall torrent]

So it’s 1-point cost extra

On the highest investment melee weapon for vet

[cedar imp]

Its far from shredder's nade

It means you sacrifice this nade or nodes

[tall torrent]

U don’t have to take shredders

[cedar imp]

Krak and smoke arent really good

[orchid hemlock]

but if u are going infiltrate u will have to path thru it anyways

[tall torrent]

Do u happen to like, watch tanner

[orchid hemlock]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[elfin orchid]

krak is ok

shredders are where its at

[cedar imp]

I definitely do but how does that invalidate the fact that those nades are bad in any way? I tried them mutiple times and they just arent that good ngl

[orchid hemlock]

nah im just trying an infiltrate build, I usually go riposte/uncanny anyways on knife

[hollow ibex]

krak can be pretty good, esp with how obnoxious bulwarks are now

[tall torrent]

Ok that makes a whole lot more sense lol

[hollow ibex]

the truth is out

[elfin orchid]

doesnt shredder just stagger the bulwarks anways

[cedar imp]

Like 1 elite kill on a 60 seconds cooldown just aint amazing period

[elfin orchid]

so you can just gun em down with vraks

[cedar imp]

Also you are far from one of the best team passives being Survivalist

But fair enough,

[tall torrent]

Shredder is an incredibly strong grenade
If you’re willing to drop 2 per use most of the time, and have both grenade regen in ur kit

Krak is a lot simpler

Throw at bulwark/boss usually
If necessary, low throw on ground to make space (smaller AoE than shredder, still high stagger)

[hollow ibex]

krak + tinkerer against boss is too funny

does krak do weakspot damage?

[cedar imp]

Unsure

[tall torrent]

You can stagger boss with shredders, but it has very specific blast radius requirements

[hollow ibex]

if you stick it to the nurgle's glowing bit for example

[tall torrent]

The initial landing can weakspot hit where u do 3 damage instead of 2

Does that help

[cedar imp]

lmao

[hollow ibex]

thanks, i'll always go for the weakspot now 👍

[cedar imp]

you cant be frl x)

[tall torrent]

I’m not joking

[cedar imp]

thats hilarious

[tall torrent]

Grenade blast however, can’t hit weakspot

It’s entirely based off the enemy’s core Armor type

Emphasis on core

[cedar imp]

To be frank, I misunderstood Frogcast's point about serrated blade because I confused it with scourge since I didnt remember something that would bleed on hit. I never acknoledged this node for its low bleed stack but also bad position on the skill tree im so sorry ☠️

[tall torrent]

I would highly recommend u read my guide

I put basically everything u need to know about vet in there

Tanner says some wild crazy things, don’t take him too seriously

[tall torrent]

It’s all fact checked with game’s code

Except like one part

Which is hand-tested

[cedar imp]

He's mostly right on whats op and what isnt, definitely had way better takes than some other youtuber like RealAsianRobot

[tall torrent]

They’re all bad takes

Tanner’s been wrong too many times too frequently

[cedar imp]

BROTHER☠️

[tall torrent]

Yea

You can’t make a veteran talent breakdown while completely missing how frags function

[cedar imp]

Im 100% willing to see a debunking or something because brother x)

[tall torrent]

Or how focus target functions

U can go read the focus target keystone section

It does not work the way u think it does

[cedar imp]

U have stacks going up to 5 with time

whenever you ping an enemy, you consume those 5 charges and apply a 20% damage bonus from everyone that shoot that target

How does it work differently?

[tall torrent]

This is exactly why his breakdown is wrong

[cedar imp]

What isnt accurate tho?

[tall torrent]

Because he missed a very key component of the keystone that isn’t mentioned in the tooltip

[cedar imp]

which is?

[tall torrent]

It has a minimum refresh mechanic

The point of the keystone is to tag & kill as many as fast as possible

[broken spade]

wait he wasn't sarcastic about liking tanner earlier?

[cedar imp]

What are the new implications on how it fondamentally works?

[tall torrent]

If u don’t know about the minimum refresh it’s very easy to misunderstand how it’s supposed to be played

[cedar imp]

Nope.

[tall torrent]

The new implication is that, you’re not looking at 5 stacks bonus

You’re looking at 2

[broken spade]

100% thought you were joking
too used to the tanner roasting here

[tall torrent]

2 stacks is [x1.08 dmg taken]

[cedar imp]

Im unsure to understand how it works after rereading it I aint gonna lie

[tall torrent]

This is a keystone made for hitting breakpoints

You take it to ensure your gun one taps things u want it to one tap

And there’re many weapons that benefit from it in this aspect

Outside of hitting specific major breakpoints it’s generally not as impactful as what it’s written out to be

I don’t think he mentioned this part at all

[cedar imp]

I really try but I still dont get it

[tall torrent]

He said something like needing a mod to see your focus stacks to know when to tag

[cedar imp]

Ill try on a target

[tall torrent]

That’s not how it’s designed to be played

It’s designed for u to tag, kill that tagged enemy within 2s, do it again

Rapid tag, rapid kill, on & on

No waiting for stacks

[cedar imp]

I mean if it dies you have 2 stacks instead of one when it refreshes basically

is that it?

[bold bridge]

which weapons hit breakpoints with it?

[tall torrent]

Thing is, you usually don’t need 2s to kill that one enemy

[bold bridge]

Boltgun probably? What else?

[grim widget]

what

[tall torrent]

Practically you’re looking at like, 0.5s?

It saves you time

[cedar imp]

I personally use boltpistol to hit those, puncture also helps

[tall torrent]

On tagging & killing multiple enemies successively

[cedar imp]

I mean it can be used the tanner way and your way and both are pretty good

like a starting additional 4% isnt crazy but its worth nothing for sure tho!

[broken spade]

i used to run it with plasma but that was several patches ago so idk if it affects any breakpoints now

[cedar imp]

Like both are optimal depending on the situation itself but the nuance you bring with this initial +1 can be worth it

[broken spade]

gotta get around to testing new breakpoints with the new blessing eventually

[tall torrent]

Boltgun
Boltpistol
XIV revolver
VI & VII combat shotguns (regular shot 1-tap range & consistency)
Plasma
Helbore (depends on perk set-up)
Combat axe (depends on talents taken)
Folding shovels

[cedar imp]

I see it being utilized by bolt pistol sniping specials breakpoint one after another, but it also is crazy good to dump on a boss and it takes +20% more damage

[tall torrent]

This is the part where you don’t know enough

Because the modifier for focus target is not +damage

[cedar imp]

His overall take that this node is S tier is still accurate

[tall torrent]

It’s +damage.taken

It’s similar to how strength is multiplicative to damage, so having a bit more strength on top of damage stacking is better than pure damage stacking

[broken spade]

so multiplies with near everything and affects teammates

[tall torrent]

This is why deathspitter is better than fire frenzy

And damage.taken is another multiplicative step

[broken spade]

actually, do you happen to know if it's multiplicative or additive with the ogryn taunt +damage taken?

[tall torrent]

I’m basing off his old veteran talent breakdown vid which was like an hour

[tall torrent]

All +damage taken effects are multiplicative with each other, with +damage and +strength

[broken spade]

nice

[tall torrent]

So it can scale up to absurd heights very quickly

[cedar imp]

Im not saying hes right on all his technicalities for sure the game has very weird ways to do damage and has many intrecacies

BUT his placement on tier list and its strenght feels spot on overall

[tall torrent]

Which is why u might want to read my guide

I put it all in there

[broken spade]

i saw the tier list build and hearing him call agile engagement shit was wild to me

[bold bridge]

Will you be adding builds that put everything together at any point soon?

[broken spade]

he was talking about the placement of the aura below it and called the nodes above it shit

[tall torrent]

Plan is 6~10

[bold bridge]

Or is there some repository of decent builds floating around somewhere?

[cedar imp]

Like I get Tanner might be leaving some things on the dust by being brief and talking about the entire game. But also tests things in psychanium

[tall torrent]

Yea he’s just plain wrong on that

[cedar imp]

But overall hes not wrong about this thing being crazy good lmao

[tall torrent]

He does, he just happens to be wrong/inaccurate (which is still wrong) a lot

[faint beacon]

I saw the thumbnail and instantly knew he was wrong

The moment I saw WS in “just for fun”

[broken spade]

off the top of my head, i also remember him being wrong about how psykinetic aura workd

[faint beacon]

Like bro that shit is the most brain dead keystone on Veteran lmao

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist bad UwU

[pseudo fiber]

Doesn't that have immo grenades in bottom tier?

[broken spade]

cause he said it was off anyone's kill and it's actually really easy to see it's only off the psyker's kills if you play with it

[cedar imp]

He mentionned it was B tier in tryhard but has something against it I think lmao

[faint beacon]

I

No

It’s S

[broken spade]

what did WS stand for again?

[faint beacon]

Weapon Specialist

[broken spade]

oh that

[tall torrent]

He’s just very simply wrong on so many things that it’s not worth watching him for info

[slow spade]

clearly a weak keyston

[cedar imp]

I think WS supporting nodes are overall not that great but the Weapon's specialist node itself I would rate it a A to B

[slow spade]

weapon specialist buff when?

[tall torrent]

There’re better resources if u want concrete info

[slow spade]

man if only Vets had like a guide that gave detailed info to use

[tall torrent]

Kuli has some amazing guides that go super in depth in how everything works

[slow spade]

UwU

[cedar imp]

I totally agree its not just for fun level of stuff

[tall torrent]

I fact check with him a lot

[faint beacon]

The only keystone I can argue is

[cedar imp]

But focus target and marksman focus damage boost is crazy

[faint beacon]

“Weak”

[tall torrent]

Do u know how finesse damage works

[faint beacon]

On veteran is Marksman Focus

[tall torrent]

Because I don’t think tanner does

[faint beacon]

It’s not the focus stacks themselves

But rather the upkeep

[cedar imp]

As far as I know, which is what ive read, its multiplicative bonus on headshot

[slow spade]

god I wish

[tall torrent]

Ok that’s wrong

[slow spade]

Marksmen would have been decent

[tall torrent]

Yea

[faint beacon]

Overall Crit/Weakspot

[tall torrent]

Better ditch tanner’s guide now lmao

[cedar imp]

I was talking about marksman focus ranged finesse*

[tall torrent]

Yes

[slow spade]

indeed

[tall torrent]

That’s now how finesse works

[slow spade]

finesse is weird in this game

[faint beacon]

I’ve TRIED to make marksman focus work and it’s just fucking miserable playing

[slow spade]

tldr: its crit and weakspot daage bonus

[tall torrent]

This is how finesse works

[hollow ibex]

it's ok with the camo node

otherwise it's babysitting stacks all game and aids

[slow spade]

but then weapons have different finesse scaling that we can't easily see :c

oh that reminds me I need to redo my build again

found out Rashad has bad finesse scaling lol

[faint beacon]

1 node that I tried to kick to the curb to try to really make MF shine

And it’s fucking miserable

[hollow ibex]

i don't mind it too much with the camo node

[cedar imp]

Where do you find the guide?

[tall torrent]

@cedar imp to give u an example

Assuming your attack does 50 damage on body hit (torso), 100 damage on weakspot
If you had +30% weakspot finesse (written as +% weakspot damage in game)
You’d have
50 + (100-50)x(1+30%) = 115 total damage on weakspot

[hollow ibex]

as long as i don't have to constantly babysit my stacks, and just play the fucking game naturally, then it's fine

[tall torrent]

It’s my guide

[near fog]

Can I get a link to your guide please?

[tall torrent]

Check pinned, one drive link

[cedar imp]

I know but how do I get to it?

[tall torrent]

Pinned one drive link

Welcome to actual knowledge

[cedar imp]

Listen, ill accept talking a smack about Tanner any day of the week and he might not be the best in terms of technicalities, but his overall rating of things are typically pretty good. Tho ill disagree about the weapons specialist one, its S tier in my heart 😭

Feelings are hurt

[faint beacon]

Damage dumpstat

[slow spade]

na na Tanner is right, Weapon Specialist bad, Fatshark pls buff

[tall torrent]

His overall ratings are mediocre at best
Just rating agile engagement wrong is enough to disqualify his opinions as a whole

[faint beacon]

My brain instantly turned off to any of his opinions when I heard that

That and Uncanny

[faint beacon]

His opinion on uncanny also lmao

[cedar imp]

What is agile engagement already?

[tall torrent]

+25% M.damage for 5s after ranged attack kill
+25% R.damage for 5s after melee attack kill

[faint beacon]

25% damage on melee (if you kill with a gun) and vice versa

It encourages how you should be playing veteran

Very hybrid esc

[slow spade]

interestingly, its a buff that applies without swapping

so Helbore Bayonet can get buffed

[cedar imp]

Doesnt make it worse in the sense that the timer is cooked and the time you swap you already lost precious time tho?

[faint beacon]

One motion

[tall torrent]

No, because outside of a few weapons, weapon swap is generally fast in this game

[faint beacon]

If you run AE on Helbore it’s almost mandatory to run one motion

[slow spade]

you can do ranged damage while having your melee weapon out (grenades)

[hearty panther]

and its 5 seconds

[tall torrent]

You’re at worst getting 4 seconds of benefit out of it

[cedar imp]

Fair enough

[slow spade]

so not entirely bad

[tall torrent]

And it’s a lot of damage

[slow spade]

but it does hurt for weapons like Bolter

[hearty panther]

at worst its basically a free +25% damage against any special you need to fuck up while in a horde

[faint beacon]

This is true but again

One motion

Helps these two weapons massively

[tall torrent]

Just forget about tanner’s guides and embraced real facts

[slow spade]

1.2 second swap with One Motion

:c

[faint beacon]

3.8 seconds

[slow spade]

clearly bolter need buff ;)

[faint beacon]

Not terrible

[cedar imp]

+25% damage surely is good, I just hate with passion its placement on the tree sadly

[faint beacon]

But it’s useable

[cedar imp]

I just dont wanna go there in the tree

[tall torrent]

It’s placed very well actually

Because most weapons don’t need survivalist

[slow spade]

na, its bad and bolter should get buffed again 😎

[faint beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1259750671461257287/1296584710826360842/attachment.gif

[tall torrent]

Outside of veteran there’re only like 3 builds that care about survivalist

[slow spade]

getting Agile Engagement is like +35% melee damage

[tall torrent]

And on veteran themselves, bolt weapons, plasma and maybe recon
That’s about it

[slow spade]

which is worth losing out on survivalist imo

[cedar imp]

I see 25% tho

nvm

[slow spade]

required node is +10% melee damage

[cedar imp]

the node close to it is +10%

[tall torrent]

Above it is +10% melee damage (which is a lot)

Survivalist has the worst pathing out of the 3 auras

[slow spade]

yeah its another good thing for it

[hearty panther]

10% Melee > Agile Engage > Close & Kill > +5% Crit

[tall torrent]

C&K has the best pathing out of the 3 auras

[hearty panther]

its fuckin juicy

[faint beacon]

That and if you pick up Fire Team

[tall torrent]

It’s balanced that way

[faint beacon]

Okay I’m not at my PC

[tall torrent]

10% melee damage + agile engagement + 5% crit chance

[faint beacon]

is fireteam 5 or 10%

[slow spade]

5%

[tall torrent]

Is a genuinely insane combo

[faint beacon]

Aura

[slow spade]

5% damage aura

[faint beacon]

So technically

If you path off that + AE

[cedar imp]

I dont wanna give up shredder grenade tho 😭

[slow spade]

you could easily get +40% melee damage

[cedar imp]

Tragedy

[faint beacon]

40% melee and 30% range

[tall torrent]

What even is your build

[slow spade]

honestly same

[faint beacon]

Yeah that’s fucked lmao

[tall torrent]

Like, what guns are u using

[slow spade]

that's before you even get your ult too