veteran-class

[rigid schooner]

power sword is a tad shallow in that you essentially always use charged swings

[rain verge]

thanks for the blessings!

how about perks

[rigid schooner]

mk III wants carapace + flak/maniac
mk VI is elites +maniac
but the rule of thumb of flaciac still works if you want

[rain verge]

dope is that case even if i will just mostly use it for horde clear since plasma takes care of pretty much all elites

[tawdry jackal]

Why the difference?

[rigid schooner]

swing patterns, and damage to health types spread

[tawdry jackal]

Gotcha. So what I’m trying to understand without logging in is my mk6 better on carapace by default vs the mk3?

[green willow]

shredder frag has such a small kill radius and damage. how do you use it properly

is it strictly against hordes

[earnest bone]

people usually use talent improve + bolt pistol with lethal proximity if they want to maximize frags

[shadow fable]

good for revives and displacing special rushes with chaff mixed in

or just a bunch of grouped up specials

[green willow]

does krak have a bigger radius

[shadow fable]

not at all

[green willow]

no radius?

[earnest bone]

there's some aoe, but its small

[shadow fable]

krak has a very high damage and very small radius used for large targets like ogryns and monstrosities

[earnest bone]

works if bulwarks/crushers/maulers stacked together

[shadow fable]

sometimes

[green willow]

yeah must've been placebo with
it's damage

[shadow fable]

I personally prefer frags on all my builds

[green willow]

its great with the bulwarks I'm struggling with, but at the same time I like wiping hordes

[shadow fable]

just more versatile imo

[green willow]

yeah

I have a shock maul for the tank enemies

[shadow fable]

Most time you throw a krak whatever it got stuck to is already dead

[shadow fable]

shock maul ain't bad for heavier enemies but there are better choices for that

[green willow]

didn't even realize it sticks to monstrosities

[green willow]

mostly for stunning ragers

high voltage + skullcrusher is good too

[shadow fable]

yeah but unless you plan on running talents to improve them/get more they don't even do much damage against monstrosities

[shadow fable]

skullcrusher + falter gives you better defense against ragers with not much of a noticeable damage reduction

and I think they are complimentary

[green willow]

how effective is the damage of high voltage

heard it was the best blessing

[shadow fable]

I used to use it and after switching I can barely tell

It's up to you if you want more damage

i just haven't noticed any substantially less damage

[trim steppe]

the mk6 is better against carapace due to its push attack stab, it fucking devastates carapace. You can do that + a light attack follow up to 2-shot crushers in less than a second. The mk3 takes considerably longer to deal with carapace.

[shadow fable]

does anyone know what perks hit the most breakpoints for the Mk7 shovel?

[green willow]

can't hit the heads of ogryns so well kase

and i still don't know what falter does to my ranged

[tawdry jackal]

Gotcha

[primal dune]

Fellas, what are the use cases for both the knife marks?

[stoic thorn]

Why can't I use the ingame chat

[rigid schooner]

bug

the psykers did it

[deft crystal]

dueling sword mk IV right?

[stoic thorn]

Why did the Commissary mf get servitorised

[shadow fable]

same here. It's just black for me

[shadow fable]

traitor in the story

[shadow fable]

just preference imo

the green one just seems to have a nicer push attack

[stoic thorn]

Zamn

[shadow fable]

Rannick quite literally blows her back out with a revolver

[tall torrent]

nah, it’s Skullcrusher

[stoic thorn]

When you reach lvl 30?

[shadow fable]

I think so

It's kind of forgettable

[wet ether]

revolver good or bad?

[earnest bone]

gud

[wet ether]

which one those?

[earnest bone]

mk2

wrong chat

[dry cloak]

Both depends on what you want

[wet ether]

fuck if i know just wanting to experiment

[dry cloak]

Then use both and see for yourself

[frank basin]

Boowomp

[vivid cedar]

what is the dump stat for the plasma gun?

[pseudo fiber]

None
Good luck

Charge rate if you don't care

If you do

80 damage, 80 stopping power, 80 ammo, 71 charge rate (or higher, depends), 69 thermal resist (can be lower as long as it can fire 8 shots continuously)

[shadow dagger]

other way around

[pseudo fiber]

Is it

Path

You bastard

[shadow dagger]

higher thermal resist means it fires 8 shots for less heat

I assume 69% lets it shoot 8 times for as close to 100% without overflowing as possible

or at least without going over 95% by shot 7, whichever % you can still fire at

[vivid silo]

Personally I dump ammo on the Plasma as ammo is usually a non-issue for me. But then again, I don't use my ranged weapon for 90% of my kills like some people do, so your mileage may vary depending on playstyle. Thermal resist can still matter if you aren't using it from 0 --> 100 each and every time, but rather switching back and forth so the math isn't so straight forward.
Charge rate isn't a huge deal, but it does reduce the delay before firing slightly, meaning it improves your ability to land shots on moving targets and for quickdrawing purposes. Not entirely useless, as I feel ammo is (for me).

[deft crystal]

OR

u could go melee vet

best vet

I HAVE BEEN CONVERTED

AND SEEN THE LIGHT

shredder + dueling sword

Crushers/Ragers are no longer real

and cannot hurt you

[blissful cliff]

I feel the same way but i use the Rashad :)

[vivid silo]

Oh I am a melee Vet, I just prefer my trusty Chain Axe because it feels absolutely incredible.

[deft crystal]

show ur trees rn

[vivid silo]

Will do, just let me get off the crapper 🙈

[blissful cliff]

[vivid silo]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9d463ade-1a06-456e-b7ec-74d430d588aa

[deft crystal]

omfg

Geth reciprocity + desparado

then go down for toughness

and grab trench

[vivid silo]

I need/want the stamina regen delay reduction

I can get by with only 1/2 of them, but it feels a lot better to have both

Mind you, I'm not building for absolute peak efficiency. I'm running a Bolt Pistol with Run N Gun at the moment because it's just hilarious

[deft crystal]

do u need it

when u can run 2 toughness and a stam

+3 stam curio

Should be enough

[dusky flare]

regen delay is way better than flat stam when stacked

[vivid silo]

It feels better to have it, yes. I do run a +3 curio on top of that. When I'm doing the Nurgle Monstrosity Maelstrom I'll usually only use 1/2 to shuffle a few talents around

I don't feel like I need a bit of extra crit for my Chain Axe at all

Mind you, my playstyle is "Sprint at the enemy while firing Bolt Pistol (Run n Gun) and pull out Chain Axe in melee".

[dusky flare]

does run n gun make the hipfire not horrendous

[vivid silo]

Aye I can reliably nail headshots at decent ranges as long as I'm not supressed

Also helps when not sprinting

I probably only aim down sights for ~20% of my shots or so

[lucid radish]

Would you vets consider stamina regen important as vet seems to have the slowest regen delay out of the other three?

[primal dune]

Depends on the weapon i'd say

Even then i'd just take stam regen on curios

[dusky flare]

it still doesn't fix the delay

[vivid silo]

Depends largely on what I'm using as Spoke wrote. If I'm using a Combat Axe I don't need a +3 curio nor stamina regen delay reduction

It's only for the Mk IV Chain Axe that I use those nodes

[slow spade]

there's nothing stopping you from picking up stam delay nodes

personally I get stam regen + 1 stam delay node

[vivid silo]

Aye I wouldn't leave the Morningstar without 3x Stamina Regen perks on my curios, that's for sure

[tame void]

10% ordo dockets vs curio

[placid portal]

So currently messaging is broke?

[slow spade]

just buy melk's 200 token thing for curios

10% dockets is at least useful

[stoic thorn]

I wouldn't be leaving without 3x ability cooldown decreasers

[vivid silo]

Aye depending in build they definitely have their use too

[stoic thorn]

I use the racism scream with the revive upgrade

[slow spade]

:c

[stoic thorn]

Because I think it's really funny

And I felt bad when my teammate got downed on a ledge we couldn't get back up to

So I got it

[primal dune]

Revive on the shout is a waste but if you think its funny then its fair game

[stoic thorn]

Situationally useful

[pseudo fiber]

As is true for any video game
Funny > Good

[stoic thorn]

Carve through the mob, scream, and both of us die

Peak darktide

Me deadass watching as a daemonhost spawns right infront of me as I am piss lasering people with my recon lasgun

[runic axle]

Haven't played the game for like a year, is this still good and is the chainsword still meta?

[pseudo fiber]

It's okay but you can pretty easily get another and no not really meta

[runic axle]

What blessings are now considered to be the "best" for chainswords?

[pseudo fiber]

For the Mk4
Savage sweep, shred, wrath and rampage
The Mk13
wrath and rampage

[runic axle]

Uhh, is mk13 relatively new or is it an old thing?

[pseudo fiber]

It's from about 10ish months ago?

Traitors curse part 2

[runic axle]

Oh, I think I stopped playing right around the time the twins mission was added

[primal dune]

I think that a situation where shout revive saves the game is near impossible to happen

[pseudo fiber]

It was in the game back then but you can try them both really easily now

[strange crow]

Chain sword is the opposite of meta, it’s good at horde clear but nothing else really

[runic axle]

Yeah but it was still pretty up there, was it not? I know the knife was but I fucking hated that thing.

[pseudo fiber]

The knife still is.
We got duelling sword now

Shock mauls too they're pretty fun

[runic axle]

Is Boltor still a disgrace to God's Green Earth and plasma gun le good?

[radiant sedge]

Both good

Plasma still probably le good

[runic axle]

Great. I remember boltor doing shit damage and having abysmal sway.

[strange crow]

Knife requires a lot of talent point investment to work

And its main benefit is mobility

[runic axle]

And skill, can't forget that. I can't count the amount of times I had a knife zealot charge forward solo, die and then immediately leave the game.

[pseudo fiber]

Great news it no longer has either of those

[slow spade]

bolter imo is better than plasma now

[pseudo fiber]

Bolter is in an excellent spot right now

Still takes 8 years to reload

[slow spade]

you can still animation cancel it

so its not as bad

[pseudo fiber]

True

I think I take... the reload on elite kill talent though that's name escapes me

[vivid ocean]

is the DBS kinda shit or is it a skill issue

ive consistently failed to oneshot trappers within melee range with a single shot

had the reticle dead center on torso too

[runic axle]

Okay, so masteries are just things that allow you to guarantee the buffs you want now? How do you level them, just killing stuff?

[pseudo fiber]

You gotta use both shots really.

[vivid ocean]

its like an xp bar per weapon

you level em by doing missions or sacrificing green and higher tier gear to hadron

there's like a 10x boost if you sacrifice a weapon that's the same as the one you're levelling

[heady garnet]

@somber axle thank you for the recommendations by the way. Fall asleep after the discussion about recon lasgun

[pseudo fiber]

Use both barrels is a good blessing.

[runic axle]

So you just get a bunch of XP for sacrificing an item or is it a permanent XP increase bonus?

[umbral scaffold]

Chats not working so I couldn’t call the incompetent zealot stealing every ammo pickup incompetent

[pseudo fiber]

You get exp for sacrificing

[pseudo fiber]

May I direct you to your local barrel + ledge combination

[runic axle]

So just buying weapon of the type you want to level and instantly sacrificing it is viable if you're not low on money?

[slow spade]

yes

just upgrade it to green first

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah

Also yeah only green

1 - 20 costs like 300k ordos and 3000 plasteel or there abouts

[verbal burrow]

tfw ingame chat doesn't work

[umbral scaffold]

The most casualty producing weapon has priority for ammo

Does voice chat work

[slow spade]

burn bright UwU

[umbral scaffold]

I’ll just trash talk them on voice chat

[runic axle]

Oh and what're the best blessings for the shovel?

[pseudo fiber]

Mk1 uncanny decimator
Mk3/7 uncanny thrust

[verbal burrow]

nope

[verbal burrow]

I know. I accept my priority begrudgingly

Been thinking about changing my build a bit

Specifically to become Clutch Rez Man:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d4672d6-99c3-49c8-816e-5daa17b2f05c/the-toughness-medic-fr-fr

The changes would be adding revive speed to the Curio and picking up

But a part of me is like "no that is planning for failure just tell them not to go down"

[primal dune]

That part is correct

[slow spade]

it affects pounced/netted allies too

so its not like they need to die

[umbral scaffold]

Planning for failure is good idea for pubs

Because most pub players r failures

[verbal burrow]

I should just have a separate build that plans for failure, and one that plans for Auric Maelstrom with a premade party on comms

[primal dune]

Also rending strikes is a waste

[verbal burrow]

y tho

[slow spade]

depends on the weapon

[verbal burrow]

Thou doth not like 10% armor ignoring when firing at carapace?

[slow spade]

like plasma + psword build then yeah rending is a waste

[verbal burrow]

Plasma just ignores armour outright?

[slow spade]

almost

carapace still protects

[verbal burrow]

I mean, does it not affect my chainsword? 😛

[slow spade]

but you're still slapping them for like 2000 damage

[verbal burrow]

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind freeing up a point

I like points

[slow spade]

it will buff your attack

[verbal burrow]

I like buffs too

[primal dune]

What breakpoints does it let you reach?

[verbal burrow]

I can tank indefinitely so break points are virtually irrelevant for me

Between my dodge game and the absurd amount of toughness I normally do, I simply outlast the enemy dudes

I have a separate build that strips out all team support in favour of breakpoints

[primal dune]

Well then its also a waste simple as

i'd switch for field improv

[slow spade]

imo I'd take a point off Covering Fire for the damage buff from ping

[verbal burrow]

I consider field improv far too mid

[slow spade]

+7.5% team damage doesn't hurt

[verbal burrow]

I'd prefer to go for that 3rd krak grenade to solo delete bosses

[primal dune]

Much less mid than 10 rending which has zero effect

[verbal burrow]

It's what used to happen when a boss showed up in Vermintide 2. My Ironbreaker would down a Strength Potion, and then nuke the rat ogre with the trollhammer torpedo

I relish doing that here too but 2 kraks is not enough

[verbal burrow]

I am a plasma gunner, if I scythe one shot through a horde of enemies dogpiling a teammate their Toughness bar instantly goes from 0% to 100%

It is actually very clutch

[primal dune]

What difficulty do you frequent if don't mind me asking?

[verbal burrow]

guess

[slow spade]

ah a fellow Sedition player

I too am an ASS man UwU

[verbal burrow]

If I am not exhausted I do auric damnation with people on this server. If I am exhausted I vibe in difficulty 4 to help lesser beings

However now that the game's text chat and voice chat are down I can't lecture them with the same attitude as Hadron

[stoic thorn]

Masozi is probably the least dickass mf in the mourningstar

Maybe hallow

[verbal burrow]

Morrow is pretty real

[atomic zephyr]

hallowette is a snake

so is melk

[umbral scaffold]

Morrow is real

[atomic zephyr]

morrow is definitely the realest

[umbral scaffold]

He’s a sergeant major so that’s just how they are

[atomic zephyr]

krall is chill though

i mean i wouldnt hang out with him but he's chill

[strange crow]

Swagger

[verbal burrow]

Gonna experiment with maxing out the Keystone and seeing if that causes any fun things to happen to my team https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d467d61-0d6b-4205-a948-97bc6aeed9c4/squad-leader-9

[thick kestrel]

oh yeah, the important thing to remember about hallowette is that she's basically Brahmn's version of Rannick.

all good rogue traders worth their ships have someone on crew who's job is a mix of wetwork, espionage and black marketeering

she's sneaky and untrustworthy because that's her job and, by all rights, she appears to be VERY good at it

[slow spade]

she can't even smuggle good clothe

idk she seems pretty shit

[thick kestrel]

considering how much she manages to get us to pay for it, she's doing pretty damn well 😉

[primal dune]

True

[slow spade]

jokes on her, I'm still broke as fuck on aquillas

[thick kestrel]

she's basically Brahmn's Seneschal for anyone who's played the rogue trader tabletop rpg: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Seneschal

[slow spade]

Abelard my beloved

[thick kestrel]

overall though it's always worth remembering that there's a split in the mourning star's crew between the inquisitorial forces commanded by Rannick and the Ship's crew who work under Brahmns. they both work for Grendyl but it's a different relationship.

(and as we now know only part of the larger inquisition effort on the planet, as there are other agents equivilant to Rannick running around planetside doing stuff)

[pseudo fiber]

And also the guard is here now

Finally.

[thick kestrel]

some guard, certainly... one extra regiment

[pseudo fiber]

Better than the like

Sixth of one we had before

If that

[strange crow]

Moebian 21st is a full regiment but they’re shitty enough at their jobs that it feels like they’re not

[thick kestrel]

partly aye, the impression seems to be that the 21st has been mostly deployed to contain the mobian 6th rather than directly battle them. hence why they're often seen holding chokepoints/bridges etc

[pseudo fiber]

That and the infection and all the scout teams rannick sent before the game started

[thick kestrel]

the rejects chewing through them aside, the 6th are implied to be a particularly dangerous elite force which has been corrupted.

while also being augmented by the Dregs, so they've got a lot of numbers

[strange crow]

Originally they were deployed to fight directly, but after that failed then Inquisitorial Strike Teams got involved

[pseudo fiber]

The dregs who are still pretty on the down low for now

[strange crow]

Also in-game dialogue mentions what were meant to be staging grounds became the front for the Moebian 21st

[thick kestrel]

so the 21st are now a containment/response force... while the rejects are sent in to poke and harass the 6th and the dregs.

the 53rd turning up is letting the imperium go on the offensive but it's heavily implied to be... kind of a poorly planned move on behalf of Lord Margrave who massively underestimates the problem.

it's fairly clear he's an idiot and an arse ^^

[slow spade]

clearly we need to glass the hive city

[thick kestrel]

alas, we can't... Mobian Steel is too valuable a prospect

(and y'know... the millions of people in the city... secondary to the imperium but.... yeah)

[strange crow]

Just send in more smite psykers and shout vets

[slow spade]

a problem for a non-reject

[pseudo fiber]

And might be responsible but its in the air for now

[thick kestrel]

yarp

[umbral scaffold]

The rejects are the least destructive option for the imperium

The guard could just shell the 6th to hell

Navy could air strike

We get sent in with rusty shovels and lasguns to do the job tho

[thick kestrel]

the fact that the inquisition is clearly pointing out "hey, you let it get this bad and now we have a chaos incursion you idiots" is somehwat notable...

[pseudo fiber]

The karnaks were nobles and clearly were fucked up before joining the 6th
The 6th got a new priestess who was clearly from the cult
They were sent to a shithole on purpose

Hrm. Seems orchestrated to me.

[thick kestrel]

alas no, Hive cities are too tough for that kind of stuff to work... it takes a LOT to make a dent that way

part of the whole grimdark vibe, it's basically always going to be knifefights in the dark or levelling the whole city

[strange crow]

The guard did try it lol, look at all the destroyed leman russes on the start of that one map

[thick kestrel]

and the latter isn't an option

[umbral scaffold]

Not destroyed and those are pdf tanks

They were abandoned by the pdf

[strange crow]

Oh yeah abandoned is what I meant to say

And fair

[umbral scaffold]

But because the 6th seems to only be infantry they don’t have anyone qualified to crew the tanks

[slow spade]

clearly we just need to ask Wolfer to stop c:

[placid portal]

maybe he wanted some of that Traxis 420 Cadian Surprise

[solid grail]

Going for Make every shot count pennance, it's the last one for my vet, is it true if I go to 0 ammo, switch to melee and never change back, the ammo aura doean't affect it?

[verbal burrow]

Keep in mind that they are light infantry regulars going up against elite urban warfare specialists

[placid portal]

just use fire team

[slow spade]

"elite specialists" -> dies by the thousands to 4 ogryns with rocks

[verbal burrow]

Yes, because we have plot armor

assuming we don't clown

[solid grail]

No, I will, I am wondering in case someone dcs, and ammo vet joins

[slow spade]

fighting a named char, rookie mistake

[strange crow]

True it’s not their job, but rather they’re shitty at the job they’ve been given

[verbal burrow]

But lorewise the Moebian 6th are the cream of the crop of the Moebian forces, and specialize in the kind of combat we see in this hive

The wiki does inform us that chaos corruption has weakened their discipline

[terse idol]

All guardsmen regiments are specialized to do something to be fair

[verbal burrow]

And the 21st opposing the 6th is clearly not urban warfare specialists

[terse idol]

Iirc the 21st specialized in ambush tactics

Before they got attacked

[pseudo fiber]

I think if you stay with melee it counts yrs

[terse idol]

By the 6th

[verbal burrow]

before they got ambushed

[terse idol]

Yeah

[verbal burrow]

by like 1 plague ogryn in the trailer

and didn't use their krak nades

[terse idol]

And iirc aquatic warfare

Or something

I forgor

[pseudo fiber]

You're right

[solid grail]

Alright, time to go be usless in some heresy matches

[terse idol]

They are not specialized to deal with an ambush by a former guardsmen regiment

[pseudo fiber]

Who cares its heresy

They're there to drive boats

[slow spade]

Nurgle heard your slander. Watch yourself UwU

[verbal burrow]

If I queue heresy to chill I expect incompetence at the highest echelons of power

[terse idol]

Coast guard mfs smmhhh

[verbal burrow]

The Most Benificent Emperor's Imperial Coast Guard(tm).

[solid grail]

Do I bother with 60% ammo plasma, or just go for it

[thick kestrel]

personal running theory is that you're always on the "canon" team when playing.

the Game's equivalent of the Ubersreik 5 as it were.

reality just realigns with each new squad.

[terse idol]

Imo no

[solid grail]

I dont use it often, idk wlhow much charged shot takes

[thick kestrel]

each mission technically only ever happens once essentially >_>

[terse idol]

You could also say that every strike with a new team is canon, but like

Every mission only happens once ever

[thick kestrel]

mhmm

[verbal burrow]

That's the Krubersreik Five to you

[terse idol]

And there are other boring missions that they regularly do, or they do nothing all day

[thick kestrel]

it'd be interesting to map out a chronological layout of the missions thinking on it... some clearly happen before or after others

[solid grail]

On the side note, is there a guide being worked on for vets like ogryn and psyker have their detailed ones?

[slow spade]

check pins

[thick kestrel]

aye, there's one in the pinned comments which is currently WiP being updated I think

[slow spade]

its still pretty good

[placid portal]

ay man those ogryns throw their rocks Veeeeerrry hard

[slow spade]

I used it yesterday trying to maximize nadedamage

[verbal burrow]

Vet really isn't so hard as to require such. Tag bad things, throw krak at bad things, (literally) shout at teammates, do things to lesser enemies with melee weapon and ranged weapons

[solid grail]

oh that's quite nice

[thick kestrel]

aye, mildly out of date 90% of all the info is still up to date and most to all of it is good

[slow spade]

bonk

[placid portal]

Helbor mk4 makes crushers die in 2 or 3 shots

[terse idol]

Don't forget that in reeal life we had guys with slings that got hired by armies to kill people

[placid portal]

Nuffing better at krumping anything puny

[terse idol]

Now it's just a huge guy with a piece of concrete he found with rehbar inside

[placid portal]

Easier to throw rock slings with a shield, common Legionare tactics and Slingshot meta still stayed relavent even after guns were develoved

[terse idol]

😌

[placid portal]

Easier to find Rock

[slow spade]

ogryns with rock slings when?

[terse idol]

Honestly crazy to think how accurate ogryns are

[placid portal]

BONE'edd implant doing crazy work

[slow spade]

to be fair, you're typically throwng like 20m max

[placid portal]

Rumbler

[terse idol]

Abiiiit

[terse idol]

Well yeah, but an uneven square piece of concrete

[placid portal]

Me doing 40+m Anti Sniper Rock trade

[verbal burrow]

nah I have a hand-cannon with grapeshot, just as the founding fathers intended

[slow spade]

the ogryn crushes it with his fingers into a ball before throwing

[terse idol]

Iirc it's canon that 1 of the ogryns has the implant, one of them doesn't or it doesn't work

And one just doesn't iirc

[slow spade]

now that's precision c:

[placid portal]

Easy to assume that all of em are BONE'edds, too smart for even a normal BONE less ogryns

[stoic thorn]

What's the godroll for a combat shotgun

I've got a 80/80/60/80/80

And a 80/80/80/80/60

[terse idol]

What's the 60?

[stoic thorn]

First one has its stopping power at 60

Second has it's stability at 60

Which one do I use

[terse idol]

The stab at 60

Stopping power is damage

Don't want to dump it

[halcyon elbow]

Any tips on how I can get the
“Kill 40 enemies stun by your stun grenade in less than 10s” ?
The most I got was 21

[terse idol]

#zealot-class

[junior hawk]

do high intensity damnation, you don't need to complete a mission, just kill some horde at the start

[runic axle]

What melee/blessings would be optimal for a melee weapon swap veteran?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d468f1e-0be7-4ced-8d8a-573e4123fc91/ikea-zealot-2

[terse idol]

Taking a Heavy sword, or something with alot of cleave will help

[junior hawk]

i used flamer

[terse idol]

A heavy sword with the 'ignore enemy hit mass on weakpoint hit' is very good

[terse idol]

Oooh

Yeah right it doesn't stop you from using ranged

[stoic thorn]

Damn I don't like the shotgun

[strange crow]

Yeah I got it via flamer as well

[glass stirrup]

Me but with the helbore

[cedar imp]

I think to make the build better you could remove close quaters killzone and swap it for reciprocity

Revolver should be ran with Surgical + crucian blessings since crits are extremely important for 1 shots. one of the perks can be replaced with Flak damage, again, for more breakpoints

[cedar imp]

With your build, any melee weapon could fit, so its truly depending on the flavour you want

If you want something more optimal duelling sword MK4
Knife mk3
Devils claw sword
Power sword (only good enough because of dodge distance provided by Weapons specialist**)

[runic axle]

But I don't need crit chance? You get +33 crit chance on your first shot per ranged stack when switching weapon, no?

[cedar imp]

You need more crit chance than 33%

[runic axle]

I think it gives 33 per stack

[cedar imp]

You can go on psykanium difficulty 5, try to shoot many targets, without a crit, it wont one shot

[cedar imp]

Lemme look

[runic axle]

I picked up a random rifle, no crit chance buffs, killed 3 trash mobs in melee and it crit'd on every first shot I took

[cedar imp]

the 33% crit chance is flat

otherwise this node would be broken

[slow spade]

no its 33% per stack

[halcyon elbow]

Oh crap
Misread the chat sorry

[cedar imp]

You sure? oh damn lemme look

[slow spade]

that's why Weapon Specialist + Revolver + Rashad is meta

[slow spade]

try a Weapon Specialist + Revolver with Handcannon

its "balanced"

[cedar imp]

I highly doubt its meta tho

[slow spade]

its literally the strongest build for vet

[cedar imp]

Columnus and Plasma gun kinda are

[verbal burrow]

Wow I just got killed because the ingame chat does not work

[slow spade]

not even close

[runic axle]

Okay, so it does stack, I'm not insane

[slow spade]

surprised vets here haven't seen the Weapon Specialist + revolver build

[cedar imp]

Ill double check on psykanium, I have a hard time believing it in face value

[keen wharf]

is Darktide chat down atm? i noticed i couldnt even see the option to type in game.

[runic axle]

Used to run it prior, but all my builds are reset and I remember jackshit 😦

Wrong message tag

[cedar imp]

Also

The +10% rending node on vet, you just never take it

It has been tested and it doesnt do much

if you wanna do something good against crushers, bring +20% vs ogryn and bosses node and you are way better off

[hollow ibex]

no, the rending node is good, just depends on what weapon you use

[terse idol]

Don't sweaat it

[terse idol]

I mean

[runic axle]

It's mostly a melee build

[cedar imp]

Hum, no.

[terse idol]

No it just needs like a weapon that actually can use it

the rashad

[hollow ibex]

check pins

[hollow ibex]

comes down to the gun usually

[terse idol]

Iirc with supporting talents with rending you can get a 3 hit BP on the crusher

[runic axle]

Weapon swap build, ranged is mostly doing a single big shot with a revolver

[terse idol]

It totally depends

[hollow ibex]

oh yeah don't take rending with revolver

[runic axle]

So it's doodoo with melee? I'm just totally out of the loop after some time

[terse idol]

I think it's okay with melee

It depends which melee

[cedar imp]

Its usually better to bring superiority complex

[runic axle]

That I'm not sure yet. Thinking of a melee for the build

[hollow ibex]

as always, it depends

[cedar imp]

damage vs ogryn and bosses

etc

[slow spade]

just get both

[cedar imp]

it does more damage than this marginal 10% rending

[terse idol]

Again

It dependsss

[slow spade]

rending is good lmao

surprised this is even an opinion

[terse idol]

There are only a few actually 'dead' nodes in the talent tree

Or just taxes

I should say

[verbal burrow]

Speak of this Columnus

[slow spade]

the fucking forced +25% suppression node

[hollow ibex]

then there's fleeting fire

[cedar imp]

It is one, I need an argument as to how it unlocks breakpoints

[hollow ibex]

test it yourself

[runic axle]

Well, the build in question is made by the person who doesn't know what's good anymore and it's mostly melee (I also stretched it as much as I could)

[terse idol]

Uh, shreds crushers faster

[slow spade]

oh wow one of those "um breakpoints???" instead of realizing what gun uses it

[cedar imp]

Onslaught is better for that, and that 20% damage against ogryn does more

[slow spade]

fucking Columbus

[terse idol]

I mean you take rending and superiority complex and then boom

Free rending

[slow spade]

know the weapon you're using

breakpoint argument is useless because the weapons that use rending are full autos

[terse idol]

Columnus yeah, I'd say recon too

[cedar imp]

BRO WHAT DO YOU MEAN LMAO

body shot of columnus is 15 damage lmao

what is dis

[slow spade]

yeah you don't know shit

[terse idol]

I mean because it seems that breakpoint argument for full auto weapons is judged in seconds

[slow spade]

figures

[terse idol]

Columnus has

Massive dps

Increased with rending

[cedar imp]

I litteraly just have tried it

[terse idol]

You just mag dump head

[cedar imp]

its only 15 damage per bullet with +10% rending

[terse idol]

Into a crusher with rending

You don't count per bullet

For a columnus

[runic axle]

What's a Columnus even? Is it a new hip-fire AR?

[cedar imp]

bro an entire mag didnt kill the crusher with rending strike + bring it down

[terse idol]

Its the

Wow they changed the name

[terse idol]

I don't know how you're building

Let's see the weapon

[uncut pebble]

Vraks.

[terse idol]

And your tree

[uncut pebble]

It's vraks now, not columnus.

[terse idol]

Dooooom

[cedar imp]

lets get on a VC

[hollow ibex]

god i hate the renamed weapons

[terse idol]

No

I'm at work

[cedar imp]

lmao

[terse idol]

Do a screen shot

Its not on me to prove that rending isn't effective you did a test yourself

So i need to see your parameters

[slow spade]

god why did they have to rename everything

[hollow ibex]

you removed onslaught for this test?

[cedar imp]

with this setup 21 damage body shot

[hollow ibex]

totally not rigged lmao

[cedar imp]

Thats my point in a way tho

[terse idol]

I mean do headshots?

[cedar imp]

44

[terse idol]

You can most definetly down a crusher in 1 magazine with that build

What's your columnus

[hollow ibex]

you can't just remove the single node that makes shit like recon las and colum viable against crushers, and then complain that said weapon now doesn't work against them

[slow spade]

I don't think they know that crits give rending

[cedar imp]

Its not good ammo economy

[cedar imp]

I am with you there

[terse idol]

Uhhhhhhhhhh

It is

[hollow ibex]

it's bad ammo economy even with onslaught tbh

[terse idol]

For a crusher

For an automatic weapon

[cedar imp]

Onslaught is crazy good

[terse idol]

[slow spade]

you shouldn't be shooting crushers in the first place

[terse idol]

Well yeah

[slow spade]

Vet has like 10 better tools

[cedar imp]

why would you run the rending if you can just have onslaught

[terse idol]

Okay okay that iss fair

[hollow ibex]

onslaught is crazy overrated

the pathing is F tier

the talent itself is ok, but niche

[cedar imp]

the pathing is bad, but its effect on crushers is better

you throw two nades, you shoot everyone with colomnus and with bleed you killed a pack

[terse idol]

But if you need to like for some reason mag dump a crusher you caann

[cedar imp]

+10% rending just doesnt do anything

[faint beacon]

Alright alright here me out

Rending strikes

[terse idol]

It does more

Again it is just 10%

[slow spade]

of course it doesn't do shit vs crushers

you're using a Vraks mk5

[terse idol]

Compared to a conditional % rending from marksmens focus

[faint beacon]

On a Finesse based weapon

[slow spade]

you don't even know how to use the gun you have

[terse idol]

Or the other thing

[faint beacon]

Or-

Get a fucking melee with Uncanny lmao

[slow spade]

ikr

[terse idol]

Post yer columnusmugman

[slow spade]

braindead takes in vet chat

[cedar imp]

Bro the whole point of rending is allowing to get pass through armor you couldnt if your gun wasnt meant to do so?

like whats?

[faint beacon]

So I was using HS for sometime

[lucid radish]

Combat blade on vet

[slow spade]

by 10% not 100%

[faint beacon]

Take a guess what I fell back to using lmao

[slow spade]

you use the rending perk for maniacs and flak

not carapace

[cedar imp]

bro I can test it right now

with and without

the damage will barely change

I can stream it

[slow spade]

people already tested extensively

I already know its good

you don't need to convince me

[broken spade]

are we talking about the 10% rending node in the tree?

[cedar imp]

Well then, show me what convinced you and why

[slow spade]

you don't even know how to make a good build nor how to use your gun. You're not convincing me

[faint beacon]

The thing that makes veteran good yes

[slow spade]

specifically the one in the middle tree

[faint beacon]

Rending strikes

[slow spade]

^

[cedar imp]

Give me tangible numbers, and we can talk

otherwise its just speculation

[slow spade]

"Speculation"

bro

[cedar imp]

show me how you would build

show me the damage difference with and without

[faint beacon]

I literally can’t atm cause I’m at work

[slow spade]

you put Suppression on your build

that's all I need to know

[broken spade]

that 10% rending node is ass in most builds

[faint beacon]

Wait the 50% extra?

[slow spade]

its for a Vraks mk.5

[slow spade]

yes lmao

[cedar imp]

Supression is super good, it invalidates packs of gunners that are clumped up and allows you for reposition

[slow spade]

one of the only nodes that actively hurts you

[faint beacon]

“Most” mainly anything that isn’t Finesse or spits lead like fucking crazy

[cedar imp]

what would you talk instead? of +50% supression then?

[faint beacon]

I’d argue like

[slow spade]

ignoring the fact that means you can't hit them because they're taking cover

[broken spade]

i think it's actually kinda ok on iag but i would just rather kill the crushers with something else

[faint beacon]

Bolt weapons, plasma, revolver yeah don’t touch rending strikes

[cedar imp]

Huh??

[slow spade]

literally either of the other options

[cedar imp]

what are you even saying?

lmao

[faint beacon]

Headshots make up for it

[terse idol]

Enemies that are suppressed

[slow spade]

you don't even know what suppression does

[terse idol]

Can sometimes cower behind cover

[slow spade]

why am I not surprised

[runic axle]

Okay, so if I get rid of the rending node should I just grab Out for Blood and call it a day?

[terse idol]

If suppression was that good folks would play the shredder pistol more but it really just ain't

[terse idol]

Just keep rending lmao

[slow spade]

Out for Blood is pretty cracked, it could be worth if armor isn't too much of an issue for you

[cedar imp]

Bro not because I do not have the same opinion as yours I am ignorant of every take you have and the like

[slow spade]

one interesting thing about Out for Blood is that it makes your Ranged attacks give toughyness back

[faint beacon]

You only really apply suppression when there’s too many of something

[cedar imp]

you just being smug and all but not making any point or proving empirically anything

[faint beacon]

Which happens probably once or twice a match

[runic axle]

Yeah but the overall consensus here is that if you're using a revolver then rending strikes aren't that great. In my case I shoot it once every 5-10 seconds or so and then go back to melee.

[faint beacon]

Not constantly

[terse idol]

Oh

[slow spade]

No the issue is you tried to pass off 10% rending as bad and misinform people

don't be stupid and I won't be rude

[terse idol]

I mean yeah you can take b4b

[cedar imp]

Bro I think its stupid to consider it good

Fine!

[slow spade]

know your tools, know your build, and know your data

[cedar imp]

But if we test and debate actual numbers, the argument falls for the one who is wrong

thats it

[terse idol]

We are just talking about how it's a good node for alot of weapons especially full auto weapons that also apply to your melee

[slow spade]

specifically if you use Handcannon

everyone uses Handcannon but best to clarify

[terse idol]

Its a non-conditional passive 10% rending

[runic axle]

Nvm I'm a moron, you meant the blessing

[cedar imp]

I know but lots of talents are crazy good in the Vet's talent tree

[slow spade]

Handcannon funny

[runic axle]

Played barotrauma yesterday so the only thing that comes to mind when I hear handcannon is a big fuckall revolver

[cedar imp]

Why cant I have any breakpoints or specific applications of that 10% rending to justify why its good

[terse idol]

Yes and half the discussion is talking about how rending is good

[cedar imp]

Just tell me run +10% rending on this thing and ill see what isa going on

[slow spade]

indeed :p if only the handcannon in Baro was as strong as the one in Darktide

[terse idol]

I can link you to it i mean

[slow spade]

I should mention that the way damage drop off works is that it lowers your armor pen

[terse idol]

Your testing is basing it off per 1 bullet

[cedar imp]

Thats all I ask

[terse idol]

For an automatic weapon

[slow spade]

so increasing rending directly increases range

though by how much varies wildly

[cedar imp]

I mean you can see how much damage every single bullet does

so you see the % increase

by comparing old damage per bullet with the new

after you shoot a mag on something and you compare both dps

[slow spade]

which ignores that a lot of the effects for Vraks mk5 are per-shot and multiplicative

[cedar imp]

Fine then ill try a mag dump DPS test

[slow spade]

if you're going to test an automatic weapon with a lot of on-hit effects

you really should try via seconds rather than per hit

[cedar imp]

What target it now makes it better in breakpoints and the like

[slow spade]

I suggest Mauler or Mutant

lots of hp, hard to miss

also flak is where Vraks mk5 struggles with

[runic axle]

Ok, so if I remove rending strikes what should I grab, out for blood? And should I keep invigorated?
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d468f1e-0be7-4ced-8d8a-573e4123fc91/ikea-zealot-2

[slow spade]

hence the rending

[slow spade]

take Crit damage off your revolver

its sadly very weak due to how Darktide calculates it

[cedar imp]

An entire mag was 2000 damage with rending strikes

[faint beacon]

You should probably grab precision strikes unless you’re insisting on having 3 extra key nodes in WS

[terse idol]

Pls post your columbus

[runic axle]

I thought revolver had an additional crit damage multiplier so it ends up being good, no?

[hollow ibex]

why is damage dumped? 🤔

[cedar imp]

62% damage is intentional btw *

But is debatable but oftentimes would only bring a diffrential of 5-7% less damage

I dont mind taking a 80% damage one

[slow spade]

I can only assume you're doing some weird shit while testing

[runic axle]

I could drop invigorated and rending for it. I want to at least keep Always Prepared in WS so I never have to sit through the shit-ass revolver reload.

[cedar imp]

I felt like stopping power was more multiplicative in nature

[slow spade]

2000 damage for a full mag on Vraks mk5?

on flak?

which it has near 90% armor pen at close?

[cedar imp]

carapace*

tested on crusher

[slow spade]

then idk what you expected

you don't shoot crushers with Vraks mk5

use Recon for that

[cedar imp]

fair, but the +10% rending does give better armor pen against flak if my understanding is good

I can try Mauler's flak

[slow spade]

it does, especially at ranged due to dropoff

the full auto blender for Crushers is Recon (fast fire rate one)

[cedar imp]

it does have around 1300-1500 DPS on 100% accruacy at 20 meters with rending strikes

[slow spade]

funny Torrent gun

[cedar imp]

1300-1440 dps on 100% accuracy at 20 meters without rending strikes same settup

crits are a bit skewing both data, its unfortunate, I would need to average out 10 scenarios with both to truly see it

[slow spade]

if you think its bugged then by all means you can report on the forums

[verbal burrow]

that's the most annoying shit

I'm trying to pick off targets and the bullshit mandatory suppression node causes the adjacent gunners to panic and start twerking

[slow spade]

yeah suppression is such a bitch

[verbal burrow]

I die a little inside every time I waste a plasma or bolt round because enemies are haphazardly moving everywhere due to suppression

[slow spade]

I get why it works like that but its a pain in the ass for Reapers especially

[slow spade]

thank god limb shots don't exist for plasma

[verbal burrow]

they have like zero inertia too so they can just go from sprinting in one direction to sprinting in the other instantly

[hollow ibex]

or when you're trying to kill a reaper and he starts covering his face so you can't headshot him anymore

reeeeee

[slow spade]

so you don't get -50% damage penalty for arms and legs

[elfin orchid]

just shoot 4-5 vraks shots then run up to melee

[slow spade]

true

[elfin orchid]

they wont stop you, theyre suppressed

[slow spade]

on my skill tree I path to the right for the +5% speed for a reason

[opaque kayak]

How does infiltrate suppression work? I've used it a bunch, but I don't know how consistently it applies or to what classes of enemies. Like crushers?

[slow spade]

it "should" instantly suppress enemies that can be suppressed

but its never as the tooltip says

[faint beacon]

I’d suggest that seeing you typically want to aim head level always when playing Vet

[slow spade]

like how VoC has a radius of knockdown that gets weaker

[runic axle]

Okay then the last thing is, is it better to keep this or replace it with Out for Blood?

[slow spade]

personally I'd take Out for Blood

each melee kill gives 10% toughness

[hollow ibex]

yeah out for blood is 👌

[runic axle]

Alright then, ig the build is done, thanks

[slow spade]

keep in mind, if your toughness is low and you have your gun out

you can just start mag dumping for +5% toughness per kill

it also affects your grenades

so Shredder nades can let you regen while doing something

like an auspex scan or something

[runic axle]

Yeah, but then again, revolver build 💀

[slow spade]

it pierces

[cedar imp]

Idk I really tried but it didnt seem to have affected my DPS much

[slow spade]

so multiple procs

[terse idol]

62 damage dump stinky

I swear I talked to you about this before

[cedar imp]

what do you mean?

[terse idol]

Dumping damage is dumping the best stat

Considering damage affects all your other damage

Your stopping power

[cedar imp]

I would argue mobility and stopping power to be better?

[terse idol]

Mobility at 60...

[faint beacon]

O4B cause it’s constantly active vs occasionally proccing

[terse idol]

Yeah I talked to you about this not too long ago

[broken spade]

dumping mobility does barely anything anyways

[slow spade]

so you're telling me it does less dps to maulers (~90% armor pen) than cruhsers (~10% armor pen)

[verbal burrow]

oh my god

[slow spade]

forgive me for being skeptical but its the best automatic in the game for a reason

[verbal burrow]

I just ran into someone else with an almost identical build

[slow spade]

a gun I use as well

[verbal burrow]

plague ogryn eats 16 stacks of T button, then 4 krak grenades

[faint beacon]

^ it at most decreases your sprint eff or removes 1 dodge

[cedar imp]

Top dps one is tried on Maulers exclusively

[terse idol]

Again maybe this is why your numbers are skewed because you're dumping damage

[broken spade]

it won't remove 1 dodge

[verbal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-warhammer-warhammer40k-the-emperor-slaanesh-gif-16325706

[broken spade]

it'll remove a dodge below 50%
which you won't be below

[slow spade]

its not even that

its just really sus

Vraks mk.5 does 4000+ dps to maulers

[terse idol]

Stopping power is affected

By damage

[broken spade]

We're spoiled now because all our weapons have high stats, but 60% mobility is still high mobility

[terse idol]

Why dump your damage stat that also affects the next damage stat

😭

It is actively decreasing enough damage that you might actually have a worse off columnus because of dumping damage

[slow spade]

its way more than that

[faint beacon]

Stopping power is damage against armor

[slow spade]

Vraks mk.5 is one of the best automatics in the game

[faint beacon]

So avoid dumping it

[terse idol]

Yeah

[cedar imp]

Ill bring a 80% damage on redo the experiment just for the sake of it

[slow spade]

and his data shows 1500 dps vs maulers?

sus

[terse idol]

And like you can't dump damage just for stopping power

You're making your stopping power worse

[cedar imp]

20 meters so dum dum isnt affecting it

[broken spade]

you shouldn't dump either of those stats

[terse idol]

Ye

[cedar imp]

20 meters so dum dum isnt affecting it but , it was also testing the fact you told there is a good differential in the damage especially for the fall off part

[broken spade]

dumping mobility isn't gonna be noticeable
it's not like everyone felt like a snail when they were using their 20% mobility weapons early game

[slow spade]

Vraks mk.5 does have very harsh dropoff + its missing its best damage blessings

pain

but it is what it is

[cedar imp]

Dodge speed and distance is crucial to survive, it would highly depend on the differential between 80% and 60% if it truly matters or not in terms of survivability, also an another issue its a bit placebo in the sense its easier to empirically count DPS vs which situations you survived or died because lack of mobility

[faint beacon]

Good way to test rending also would be Vigilant Rifles

[verbal burrow]

So:

• Ingame text chat not working
• Ingame voice chat not working
• random disconnects before you go from the load-in point to Hadron
• wow

[faint beacon]

The rending strikes are NOTICEABLE

[slow spade]

Rashad Axe too

fucking 4 hit kill on Crushers for me

without it that is

[faint beacon]

Test on a crusher

And aim at the head

With and without obviously

[broken spade]

it would highly depend on the differential between 80% and 60%
yeah and i'm saying that difference is never noticeable in this game

[cedar imp]

hum idk

[broken spade]

you can actually just look at the number anyways if you don't believe me. it's not a very big change

[slow spade]

it depends on the weapon but its basically a 8% dodge distance difference

[verbal burrow]

pew pew

[cedar imp]

I definitely feel it when I play Power sword lemme tell you what lmao

[slow spade]

and considering people use Power Sword to dodge, mobility is a safe dumb stat

[broken spade]

Power sword can dump cleave targets if it wants

[slow spade]

indeed

[hollow ibex]

Mobility doesn’t do shit on PS

[cedar imp]

I stopped using it for terrible mobility, you can play around it, but its not my cup of tea, its raw power is fun tho

[slow spade]

its also fucking bugged atm

along with all the other Powered weapons

[broken spade]

i guarantee you that you won't notice a mobility dump on a columnus anyways

[slow spade]

I'm still salty its bugged

[hollow ibex]

What’s the bug?

[slow spade]

if people can use Power Sword with mobility dumped, dumping mobility is just fine lol

[slow spade]

it turns off when you get hit + duration does not refresh when you reenergize

leading to situations where your sword just turns off mid-swing

[runic axle]

On damnation if you're playing with a decent team, could it be better to have Field Improv instead of Grenade Regen? Because everyone doesn't really have a lot of wounds and all

[hollow ibex]

Hmm I thought the former was intentional. Latter def sounds like a bug lol

[slow spade]

get both

why choose?

[hollow ibex]

No

[runic axle]

Skillpoints not infinite (

[hollow ibex]

Grenade regen is almost mandatory

[broken spade]

a coordinated team would want both

[hollow ibex]

It’s what makes vet vet

[slow spade]

it never worked like that until the powered weapon bug came out with the Unlocked and Loaded patch

likely just another effect from the bug

[hollow ibex]

Field improv is not bad but not as high of a priority

[slow spade]

someone posted a fix on the bug report forum

so I pray its fixed next hotfix

[broken spade]

power weapons not refreshing their duration is actually so annoying rn

[hollow ibex]

Weird could’ve sworn you always lost charge when getting hit

[broken spade]

makes me not want to use any of them

[terse idol]

Me as I say co contversially

Naw

[slow spade]

if you get stunned it does

[terse idol]

😌

[slow spade]

being hit doesn't

[terse idol]

I wouldn't sacrifice my build just to get grenade regen

[hollow ibex]

Go to zealot chat fake vet 😠

[verbal burrow]

have you considered using uh, revolver with Surgical and Hand-Cannon, if you desire rending?

[terse idol]

If it's easy for me to get it sure

[slow spade]

like if you're going VoC, you might as well get nade regen

[hollow ibex]

Good thing are two grenade regen nodes

[slow spade]

if you're going Exec Stance, Demo Team might cover you?

[terse idol]

Demo team inconsistent but it's okie

[broken spade]

luckily it's right above VoC so no one would need to sacrifice their build for it
No thinking required

[verbal burrow]

No, krak grenade strength and krak grenade regen is pretty much fixed

[terse idol]

Me as I do exe memes

Or infil

[verbal burrow]

That's also why fire team and toughness shout is also mandatory

[broken spade]

unfortunate

[slow spade]

Infil is kind of fucked for nade regen but you can usually still get Demo Team

[runic axle]

I could take out the 25 toughness node for field improv, but it ends up removing like 44 toughness.

[slow spade]

I'd not get field improv personally

44 toughness is huge

[terse idol]

Just don't be a team player skip field improv

That is a harder node to take

And if you're qping

It really sucks

[slow spade]

a living player > a team player

[terse idol]

If another vet is running field improv

[broken spade]

field improv is good if you have ogryn on your team

they want the nade

[slow spade]

rock ogryn UwU

[broken spade]

i would not take field improv for solo quickplay

[runic axle]

Who said I'm a team player it's just that I have a pathetic 2 wound health pool, so I'm trying to come up with something for better survival

[slow spade]

the problem with field improv is its value varies wildly

it can be shit

or a team saver

[broken spade]

if you don't know what your teammates are using, it could just be useless

you could get 3 psykers

your ogryns could all be using rock

or throwing knife zealots

[verbal burrow]

2 wound pool is standard

[hollow ibex]

it's funny for the meme value. hog an ammo box all to yourself on an event and just dump nades

[slow spade]

it could 3 vets all using regen + demo team

[broken spade]

or another vet might also have field improv

so yours is useless

[slow spade]

Field Improv is funny though

[broken spade]

i can only vouch for field improv in like a coordinated team

[slow spade]

so if you can eat the price, it's fine

its not like you're throwing if you get Field Improv

[broken spade]

People liked it a lot for premades against twins

[slow spade]

Bolt Pistol with Lethal Prox + Tinkerer + Field Improv

c:

[green willow]

how does oppertunist on the shock maul work

[faint beacon]

Grenade Regen + Demo team does way more wonders

[slow spade]

why choose?

get them all UwU

twin frags too because fuck it

[lucid radish]

Fake vet mains will go out and not equip demolition stockpile

[warm bolt]

I feel naked without grenade regen in my build ngl

[elfin orchid]

not taking field improv is screwing over your entire team and stockpile is strong enough that you might as well

[cedar imp]

Here goes my testing on Rending strikes, I took the recommendations of being 80% damage and 80% stopping power, shooting at 20 meters range because its speculated to have a good influence on the damage fall off (I have sincerely no clue about this aspect without testing) .

[elfin orchid]

so you should just use bring it down

[cedar imp]

Its good, I typically use it but it was testing on Maulers and af as I know bring it down doesnt do anything because Maulers aint ogryn class or a monstrosity

@broken spade

@slow spade

Thats my testing, and its results, is there any other node or modifier that you guys want me to test to see the differential DPS with and without rending strikes? For now its around 8,42%

[broken spade]

That's around what i expected tbh. As I said earlier, it's kinda okay in iag but i'd rather just take something else for that point

Should try it on maniac. Someone said "flak and maniac" and i bet it's like 3% on them lol

[primal dune]

The only worthwile rending perk on vet is onslaught

I'd say

[cedar imp]

I dont know why its considered meta by many, when we have Deadshot, Precision strikes, Superiority complex,

[cedar imp]

It is

[broken spade]

I don't think that many people consider it meta

[cedar imp]

because brittleness also enables the team

[primal dune]

Right

[cedar imp]

Some people did and thats why I tested myself

[broken spade]

it's bad on most weapons that are considered meta, except for iag specifically

[cedar imp]

Also because if you shoot nades and brittle people the bleed is stoopid

[broken spade]

like revolver and plasma would never

[cedar imp]

I know but a second ago everyone was on me telling its the best thing lmao

[dry cloak]

Hey please tell what would be the best melee to pair with the helbore. I have knife mk6. And shovel is not an aswer i tried it

[warm bolt]

I tried the chainsword and it worked wonders but iirc the meta is the powersword?

Maybe an axe for better horde clearing

[hollow ibex]

No. You were saying it’s shit. And people were telling you it isn’t lol

[dry cloak]

I dont like chain weapons in general

[warm bolt]

An axe is good for horde clearing iirc

[slow spade]

never said its the best thing

but its definitely one of the better damage nodes

also you were arguing its bad

we said it isn't

[primal dune]

What's it good for?

[cedar imp]

8,42% dps differential in average isnt one of the better damage nodes

[hollow ibex]

guns, melee, shredders

[cedar imp]

What about 1 point investiment for focus target, +20% damage for EVERYONE

What about +30% weakspot damage

[slow spade]

melee weapons that don't have Uncanny and aren't Power Sword

IAGs, Infantry Lasguns, braced autoguns

[cedar imp]

what about Deadshot

[primal dune]

I fail to see the value in it unless it let's you hit any breakpoints

[cedar imp]

Like its not close to be on of the bests

[broken spade]

that's also situational
As you said, that's only really that much at a 20 meter range

[hollow ibex]

you're generally using it on weapons where breakpoints don't matter (for guns)

[slow spade]

breakpoints don't matter, its for fullauto guns

[broken spade]

iag aren't really breakpoint sensitive

[slow spade]

you're sacrificing stamina for damage

very risky

compared to free +10% rending

[hollow ibex]

for melee, it might help hit breakpoints, but case by case dependent

[cedar imp]

Not much if you manage it right

But sure

But what about reciprocity then?

[hollow ibex]

doesn't change the fact that it's not a 1:1 comparison

[slow spade]

you then need to spend 2 points to get

opportunity cost

[cedar imp]

Agreed its not 1:1 but the more performing one dps wise is gonna be deadshot

[slow spade]

Recirprocity is also one of the better ones

[hollow ibex]

ok, but it's disingenous to ignore the cost

[slow spade]

well NOW it is

[broken spade]

8% dps at 20 meters away from flak is not what i'd call an above average node
I also just don't play that far usually but that's just a playstyle thing

[slow spade]

damage buffs are multiplicative

[broken spade]

it's realistically gonna be like 4% against a mauler rager that's up close

[slow spade]

20m was to keep it as static as possible

[cedar imp]

I dont ignore it, I say you can play around stamina management to leverage its advantages, it does add to the mental stack which isnt insignificant but its reward is amazing

[hollow ibex]

that's just in one scenario lmao. the rending applies to your melee too. and most of the time you're not shooting against just flak on maulers...

[slow spade]

no its going to be higher than 8% due to how damage works

[broken spade]

yes but we're talking about rending and ranged adms
It actually has a lesser effect the higher your adm is

[hollow ibex]

yes, so like i said, it's not a 1:1 comparison and you shouldn't be putting it out as such, as you initially did

[hollow ibex]

that's kinda the point...

[slow spade]

yes for high damage per shot guns

this is not one of them

[hollow ibex]

you wouldn't take rending on shit like revolvers

[broken spade]

if your adm is already at 100%, 10% rending is just 2.5% dps

[slow spade]

???

oh you meant Rending Strikes

nvm lol

[hollow ibex]

yes

[broken spade]

we're talking about the 10% rending node on iag right?

[slow spade]

which its not because we're talking about a Vraks mk.5

[slow spade]

yeah mistaked that you meant "no rending on revolver"

[broken spade]

what was the close ranged flak adm on iag vs far?

not home rn

[slow spade]

sadly same

[broken spade]

oh really

[slow spade]

its roughly 90%

[broken spade]

i guess it's just 8% all the time then

[cedar imp]

My issue with rending strikes its that it competes with those nddes and its just not crazy enough for 8% differential in damage :

[broken spade]

this is still "if you have a spare point" tier for me

[slow spade]

the problem is you assume you can't just get all of them

its a low investment cost node that buffs melee and weapon for no cost

[primal dune]

Vet is pretty point hungry, you're trading something for it

[slow spade]

like there's a reason why Trench Fighter isn't just "must have" for every build

[hollow ibex]

Onslaught is way worse in that regard

[slow spade]

and 10% rending is hard to pass up

[faint beacon]

Extreme QOL

[primal dune]

Not even that, how about comp urge and bring it down

[slow spade]

indeed, its extremely good but its not "instant pick"

due to how much investment it is

[faint beacon]

Comp Urge don’t even use

[slow spade]

Comp Urge is meme

[faint beacon]

Bring it Down is very build focused

Like Bolter boss nuking

[hollow ibex]

Those are all way better placed tbh

[primal dune]

It's pretty bad but it's better than rending strikes

[slow spade]

wtf?

[faint beacon]

It’s another QOL if you’re using it for the Ogryn mashup

[hollow ibex]

wtf