veteran-class

[wind patio]

And that's more of an actual dump stat

[placid swan]

This is the other one.

[torn root]

its your damage far and near as well as stagger

[torn root]

ye for now

[mighty escarp]

That's the issue i see, for me and my friends, when we do into aurics, we have a lot of players who think they are doing well but are extremely heavy.

The issue we get is we run out of ammo often because people waste ammo or take extremely long to clear encounters.

One person being a hindrance can be enough, especially on certain modifiers.

[torn root]

this, if you clear encounters fast that stops the director from spawning more on your dome before you can continue onwards

[placid swan]

Now that these guns are pretty much lego blocks we can plug and play

[mighty escarp]

Twin stubber ogyrn just using all the ammo, then takes it from the revo zealot or me on vet..

[torn root]

the longer a match goes the more ammo you have to sink

[mighty escarp]

Correct

[torn root]

this has always been the case in hoard shooters

cant name a single one that doesnt follow that logic

[balmy flume]

The whole ammo thing is why I tend to stick with VoC, PSword and Bolt Pistol in my games.
So in PUGs I am, ironically, not dying for ammo if I run out.

[mighty escarp]

Ugh.... Too many vets i get who use voc just unable to do anything but voc like a corner horn in monster Hunter. I'd rare to get a good voc vet these days

[torn root]

i use the same load out with IAG 5

shoot at head height delete crushers move on

if im the only one that needs to burn my ammo to move forward fuck it

the bags are mine

[placid swan]

Its maniacs and flak for the XII right?

[balmy flume]

I mean, it depends? I run my curious with maxed out VoC recharge speed, so I do shout quite often to gift everyone extra toughness…

But if you are talking about Vets shouting at a single Poxwalker, I suppose yea, that is a waste.

[hearty panther]

XStance presently is hilarious. Basically permanent uptime with shooter highlight node.

[torn root]

might want someone that uses that gun to get on i think

[mighty escarp]

We had a pysker running that surge lmb span build some guy was bragging about a few days back who flopped immediately in an auric 5... He was so useless and heavy

[radiant chasm]

Dont need curio cdr with the cdr talent

[wind patio]

Only one?
It's usually the games with more than 1 folk who aren't level 30 and have no situational awareness that get me.

[torn root]

how, you are legit a tank lmao

[hearty panther]

It's almost to the point where I wish it didn't auto equip my gun. Or actually, they should make it so that swaps are instant during the ults duration.

[torn root]

actually nvm i say that but i have 15 stamina bars with melee

16 on gun

[balmy flume]

I think it’s more a timing thing they are talking about, shouting at the wrong instances.

[mighty escarp]

Talking more using it as a crutch in an engagement that makes the run go slower because, while they do give us the extra toughness, they often times don't keep up with us and fall behind, using voc into the void vs one crusher in the back

[torn root]

in auric i feel like shouts are free too tho

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/boomer-alert-spinning-gif-15163953

[torn root]

deadshot addicts

frfr

[grand perch]

I CAN STOP ANYTIME I WANT

[balmy flume]

Ah, positioning and such…that’s fair, and even if they do have to use it, it should be to disengage and catch up.

[rain badger]

What gun should I use with VOC? Bolter and plasma seem good.

[torn root]

but PSWORD!

[wind patio]

What blessings does rishad want other than brutal momentum because I can't figure out how this thing is good.

[mighty escarp]

And many can't even use that well either

[torn root]

both are nice actually

[torn root]

fair, but they are in auric

[balmy flume]

Another reason why I like PSword and Bolt Pistol; by default I can use Zealot to keep pace and still not be too useless, without risk of dropping too far back.

[hearty panther]

VoC goes with anything. A rusty spork. Who cares.

[torn root]

i will ay auric runs complete more often that regular damnation

there is usually competent players in auric

[wind patio]

Usually

[balmy flume]

I have a feeling many people use VoC to repel enemies to activate PSword special, as opposed to just Block+Shove…or grenades…or dodging backwards…

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/saladfingers-rustyspoons-salad-fingers-gif-5551657

[mighty escarp]

I usually go exe instead just to chain through thick gunner packs and swarms, also so i can chain my ping through fights so my team maintains their buffs through entire flights

[rain badger]

Been using the right side specialties for bonus damage on weapon switching and the melee/ranged specialist. Seems good sometimes and feels bad other times.

[mighty escarp]

More like they use it frequently to keep everyone alive, that's fair enough, but they don't use the push...

They use the toughness heal, that's the crutch

[grand perch]

bromentum + headtaker. then proceed to left click hordes

[wind patio]

It's so

Slow

though

[grand perch]

doesnt matter when you kill 4 per hit.

[wind patio]

Only 4?!

[balmy flume]

I run Bolt Pistol myself. More stamina bars means longer running times…and bolt pistol also has a blessing to keep aiming on the run

[torn root]

i can see this

[wind patio]

[mighty escarp]

The vets who use voc like they are a point blank grenade are the real heroes, but you get those 1/10 aurics

[rain badger]

Haven’t tried bolt pistol. What’s great about it? Does it have a faster ready time than the bolter from switching from melee?

[torn root]

grenades and blocking or shoving and dodging is what i think is your best option on P Sword

[balmy flume]

I am a bit guilty of that myself, but then again, I don’t burn a shout just to heal if there are no enemies around…

[torn root]

after you activate it you should be stunning things to be able to chain

[mighty escarp]

That's majority of voc vets... Especially the plasma vets

[balmy flume]

Ooof

[rain badger]

I enjoy rushing in and masquerading as a zeal with Rashad and VOC while I take enemies to the blender.

[mighty escarp]

Won't lie.. i blame this discord sometimes for every time i see a player who clearly is following a build guide instead of knowing how to play it...

[balmy flume]

Faster weapon ready switch time, yes. And the extra Stamina allows you to keep pace with party at Damnation or above and, if worst comes to worst, you block more when ressing People compared to a Boltgun.

[rain badger]

[torn root]

i think you should only use VoC in emergencies or right before your team starts slaying packs of specials, you usually get a few uses when you use it into specialist packs

[balmy flume]

I tend to VoC in major engagement areas (I played enough to recognise when shit is hitting the fan I think)

But never for no enemy around healing.

Also, stunning bosses lol

[torn root]

these are bots, the ones that do that

jokingly

but its bad

[mighty escarp]

I wish voc gave a minor sprint speed boost, God that would be glorious

[balmy flume]

VoC, if preserved use, is also critical in getting those Auspex openings

[sleek garden]

in case it wasn't already busted

[balmy flume]

To do the scan things

[mighty escarp]

I just got a negative impression from voc after hearing how great it is and then seeing it amount to nothing in the end and just wishing i had an exe vet instead

[torn root]

grenade, VoC, grenade, gives you a whole lot of safe space to cut across rooms too

its funny and possibly a bit abusive

[rain badger]

What’s your exe vet talent tree look like?

[torn root]

if everyone hears it great, more ppl use it and then dissapoint others

[mighty escarp]

Gimme a sec

@rain badger

[torn root]

what gun?

[mighty escarp]

usually IAG for this one

Vraks usualy the go to, but works with any

[torn root]

ppl did the math a few months back and renging strikes gies more than a 10% increase to the shots iirc

small hits really enjoy rending

[regal smelt]

Late reply, but I didn't have a good recon las build going on until now. Onslaught totally applies brittleness to multiple targets and the stacks are only lost after you haven't hit them for 5 seconds or they die. Dots like Infernus fire or bleed don't apply brittleness stacks anymore (that was the big change to it) but are affected by it

[mighty escarp]

start the fight with a dump into a gunner swarm, chain into 3x elite, go vet tank stance into killing major threats, then melee the rest, move on

[torn root]

well into armour i should say

[rain badger]

You might laugh. But I’m not a numbers guy. Why not run the “+10% rending all weapons?”

[torn root]

slower heaviier hits benefit less from it

im not sure why specifically the rapid fire weapons were getting a bigger increase tho

1 sec

[rain badger]

[mighty escarp]

Rending can work, its more that it doesn't have enough overall gain vs Ogryn swarms of bulwarks, its great in terms vs mauler swarms but those die fast enough anyways, while Bulwark swarms are a bigger overall issue and the extra damage vs them specifically makes a cleaner clear

[torn root]

good for maulers and crushers

[regal smelt]

I mean it's kinda simple, more shots = more times the damage reduction from armor comes into play, plus faster weapons are generally more shit at doing damage to armor

[mighty escarp]

specifically maulers

[torn root]

though for IAG i know you arent specced into it but IAG specifically loves rending and onslaught

[torn root]

fair

i was searching specifically why the math was like that but that kinda explains it

[obsidian plover]

are we really calling rending good when testing it with 10 million other dmg boost?

[mighty escarp]

thats with my buddies Purg build too, no issues, still big damage

[regal smelt]

smaller damage numbers are probably reduced even more than larger damage numbers in general too. additive reduction do that

[torn root]

it is good on rapid fire guns

[rain badger]

All of that Stamina.
What you running? Also, what is the 5% red sword that jumps to 28% above your active perks?

[mighty escarp]

dont build to cover everything, build for the encounter

[torn root]

the red text is crit chance

[rain badger]

Nice

[torn root]

this is my build https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9ae54218-3657-4ab2-8eaa-c996e9c94323

[rain badger]

What mod shows that?

[torn root]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/279

[rain badger]

Thanks, need to DL that. Just wish I didn’t get OOM crashes every 3 matches.

[torn root]

the only reason i can kill crushers that fast is because of rending tho

the dps goes down sharply without it

[rain badger]

Right

[torn root]

this has been vetted for months now

[mighty escarp]

Id take a wave of crushers anyday over a wave of bulwarks...

[torn root]

IAG feeds off of rending strikes and onslaught even outside of my random deadshot build

[rain badger]

I haven’t played in like 6month. Most of my play time is before classes and talents and shit were introduced.

[torn root]

same ngl

[torn root]

i returned literally 5 days ago

and the ttk got better because i got to maxc my stats

[rain badger]

When you backwards dodge into an object and the crusher overhead hits

[torn root]

in the vid im not even using my focus target

lmao

[regal smelt]

well at least you guys missed the bolter being ass, basically the same as it was -pinning fire being it's main carry in dps

[torn root]

bolter was good at one point on zealot -- then they nerfed chorus of dawn

[rain badger]

I played both versions of the bolter sadly. I’m glad the aim got “fixed” this patch. Feels a lot better

[mighty escarp]

I miss you Shredder..

[rain badger]

Oooof

Forgot about that

[regal smelt]

yeah shredder is sad

[rain badger]

Shock troop gauntlet
shredder noises

[regal smelt]

columnus vraks infantry auto replaced it

[mighty escarp]

Vet lost all its toes...first we had hellfire recon, nerfed into oblivion...then we had PSword 6x Glitch, destroyed...then we had shredder meta, gone...then they take away survivalist

[rain badger]

I like Brautos, but for some reason it feels inconsistent everytime I use it.

What was survivalist again?

[regal smelt]

at least they made plasma busted as shit for like a full year lol

[torn root]

all fairness survivalist was busted

[mighty escarp]

ammo regain on elite/specialist kill

[torn root]

but the other auras still kinda suck ass

[regal smelt]

used to not have a cooldown

[torn root]

they need to make better talents

[mighty escarp]

at least we still have 3x Exhilarating...but thats still nothing

[rain badger]

I played the snow map for the first time, was really cool looking/fun

[regal smelt]

at least we can actually build breakpoints for fireteam now that we can control our damage stats

[mighty escarp]

the moment they take away vet tank stance, is the day vet dies completely

[rain badger]

And the day I stop playing, cause I don’t play anything else

[torn root]

if they touch VoC I'm suing

[regal smelt]

voc needs more downtime honestly

[mighty escarp]

dont need it, vet tank stance makes you go weeeeee

[burnt monolith]

why does the power sword suck so much butt when it isnt powered up? i get that the special is the whole point but it's still a big fuckoff sword

[torn root]

i started playing Psyker and im here to say, no it doesnt

psykers get to spam sheiks way more than vet gets to for VoC

[mighty escarp]

although they did nerf my tank stance a bit, still functions, Im just a bit more vulnerable, cant just walk into hordes shooting elites and not take damage anymore lol

[regal smelt]

take slaughterer, get slaughterer stacks, do push>attacks that do high weakspot damage when you need to kill a guy unpowered

[torn root]

the power swords we get are broken

or we are too slow to use them right

[burnt monolith]

especially with the bottom left keystone. shriek every four seconds feels like

[torn root]

yes warp siphon spam is real

[stuck gorge]

definitely a good roll

[burnt monolith]

that said though i love psyker shriek spam. whole class is busted lmao

[regal smelt]

Still don't get the point of shiek since I'd rather use warp charges for bubble shields or scriers gaze to help boost my damage alongside dd keystone

[torn root]

on p sword just go mk6 and power slash slash repeat

lmao

[rain badger]

Rashad is still my beloved, but I’m looking at trying the dueling sword out. Have a maxed Rashad is pretty nice.

[burnt monolith]

maybe. doesnt matter now that powercycler can actually just be equipped rather than hunted down for an eternity

[torn root]

shriek is CC and damage

[mighty escarp]

overall damage increase + area wide stagger

[torn root]

it often times just deletes waves of enemies

[burnt monolith]

been trying out vet last few days. i love my power sword

[torn root]

while staggering

giving you toughness in some cases

if you run the one talent

and all the kills you get from the dot feed back into siphon to do it again

and guess waht

[burnt monolith]

smite + shriek is up there with strongest psyker builds. shit can just never stand up

[mighty escarp]

nice meme

[torn root]

40%crd on your skill and 5% more for each special means you can shriek back to back

[mighty escarp]

smite pysker, the poor mans purg staff

[torn root]

so instead of shriek being 10s CD its legit 2 or even none

[regal smelt]

I feel like there's better ways of deleting or staggering crowds with staves+full warpcharges rather than using them all on shriek and having soulflame damage be less without the warp charge buff anyways

[torn root]

shriek is legit the best build on psyker tho

[burnt monolith]

mainly for when you want to use voidstrike instead of purg, imo

[mighty escarp]

?? do you not know to pass soul flame limit?

[regal smelt]

wait waht

[rain badger]

Psyker talk in my vet chat? It’s more common than you think.

[regal smelt]

psykers are just sparkly vets

been that way since launch

[torn root]

they tried to nerf my VoC

i come to defend it

we should get psyker nerfed instead 🙂

[burnt monolith]

dont think voc needs a nerf but i do think it would be nice to get a third perk on it

[mighty escarp]

Shriek allows you to pass the 15 stack soul flame limit with purg, so you can do more damage overall vs waves, plus allows for an insanely strong clear. Its basically used to surpass the stack limits

[torn root]

^

[mighty escarp]

(plus the fact that it can destroy mauler/bulwark waves)

[burnt monolith]

i thought armored enemies ignored soulblaze

[torn root]

yup

[torn root]

no

[mighty escarp]

shriek doesnt

[burnt monolith]

w h a r

[torn root]

only ogryn enemies don't take much damage from soulblaze

[mighty escarp]

THe only thing soulblaze cant kill are crushers...but thats what BB or a good melee is for

[rain badger]

Fair, gives me PTSD dealing with people crying about shit being OP in PVE games. Just like Helldivers 2 recently.

[regal smelt]

yeah I didn't realize it was just an extra Perilous Combustion. I asked a dude who should of known if it was and he was just like '???'

[torn root]

felt this

[burnt monolith]

helldivers 2 took the nuclear approach and now the game is too easy according to some. think darktide balance is fine where it is

[torn root]

the only thing i think was OP in the past few months was Survivalist

[raven notch]

If you want to kill armored enemies with Soul Blaze either take the brittle blessing or uncanny on a melee

[torn root]

its actually in a decent spot now

[torn root]

they fixed the game and i still struggle to muster up the will to get back on

[burnt monolith]

so long as the game is fun and people arent running around killing hordes with a single button press i think we are ok

[regal smelt]

it's been quite a while with the survivalist nerf

[slow spade]

ogryn frag bomb noises

[torn root]

i know this i was here for it

[mighty escarp]

Soulblaze's only weaknesses is a swarm of crushers or mutants(kinda) (but Im a BB purg staff so...no issue), shriek controls fights way way too well and ends up having a wider usage than bubble or scriers

[slow spade]

bulwark patrols are pain too :c

[mighty escarp]

nah, shriek push into a 15 charge soulblaze, then you can BB them to death in seconds

[burnt monolith]

i can never justify using BB in my head. shit sucks

[torn root]

purg deals with bulwarks decently enough if you take Unyielding

[mighty escarp]

do people really think BB sucks?

[burnt monolith]

teammates will always kill the specialist before your bb can take the five seconds it needs to charge unless you are running the one build that allows for bb spam. it never felt good to use to me

[torn root]

go look in psyker chat on me defending that shit

i gave up

[slow spade]

the first thing people did when patch 13 came out was replace BB

[mighty escarp]

I saw that earlier

[torn root]

they really hate BB

[regal smelt]

bb sucks until you have that 60m range sniper that nothing else can reach

[torn root]

^

[burnt monolith]

i just want to kill hordes with assail or zap with smite. i served my bb sentence when the game dropped

[torn root]

was fighting for my life 🤣

[regal smelt]

other than that it's like a cat toy laser for vets

[slow spade]

assail is all you need for long range

[mighty escarp]

really? People dont chain wipe BB anymore? especially with the stim buff?

[grand perch]

oh no psyker chat is creeping in, someone call the black ships

[torn root]

nah we gotta get them nerfed

[rain badger]

I played it hardcore, it’s definitely not “easy” now. Bugs are easier because anti armor actually does something. Bots are more difficult with Helldivers damage changes and getting smoked insanely fast. It is however MORE fun.

[torn root]

they are getting too close to vet

they are trying to take our guns!

[mighty escarp]

thats crazy, assail is still massively slower than BB in chain clears....thats so weird

[slow spade]

not in practice

[mighty escarp]

no it is

[burnt monolith]

in what way is assail slower to kill than bb

[slow spade]

maybe in a perfect situation with stim + 2x kinetic buffs lol

but in actual gameplay?

not even close

[mighty escarp]

Chain clear BB with empowered? Especially with shriek and stim? You do more damage and clear faster, plus you get free empowered for each elite? you just basically reduce a pack of ogryn/gunners/shotgunners in seconds with no risk?

[burnt monolith]

especially now with warp cleave or whatever its called. that with scriers and you can obliterate a horde with assail alone

[slow spade]

ah yeah when buffed to fuck and back it can beat default assail

thanks brainburst

[torn root]

Kinetic Resonance + Empowered Psionics

enuf about the space chuds

back to guns and shit

[mighty escarp]

plus with purg, its just way too damn useful

[burnt monolith]

the issue with bb is that it is a single target ability in a game with hundreds of enemies on the screen at a time. it can be fun to use but imo it is a handicap

[regal smelt]

you run out of empowered so fast, the increased charge speed buff doesn't last long enough, and I'd rather just have warp charges for more consistent damage which kinda goes against using your ability to buff charge speed

[mighty escarp]

I can see that if you dont run purg

[mighty escarp]

?? elite clear BB, free empowered with every kill

[torn root]

but fuck that one guy, in particular

then he spreads blue confetti on his friends

[idle swallow]

If you got DD and malefic momentum revved up assail will shred mixed hordes in an instant, BB is about single target kill chaining

[burnt monolith]

also gotta account for the presence of teammates, the second someone else sees the elite youve been charging bb on for the quarter of a fuckin fiscal year they will turn their bolter on it and send it back to the lobby

[mighty escarp]

I can see BB being bad if you dont go empowered through, that makes sense, then its better to take other options..but smite is still a meme

[regal smelt]

I only feel it's better against big boy waves soley comprised of crushers maulers and bulwarks, and those aren't common enough unless you run that 1 maelstrom in which case you just use smite to keep them from gutting you.

[torn root]

yall gon make me clip!

[mighty escarp]

thats true, but then I just dont BB, I just purg everything. I only BB spam when its a big swarm of crushers/bulwarks and eliminating pesky things in the back

[burnt monolith]

meanwhile the enemies see you with your psyker dick in your hands doin nothing but focus one enemy when you could just use a voidstrike staff and delete that entire direction along with the crusher or whatever

[mighty escarp]

just purg?

[burnt monolith]

they need to buff bb in some way to make it truly viable. make it target multiple enemies at once or something

[mighty escarp]

same SS...
the Dontreadthis, thats a BB/Purg staff

[torn root]

kinda free ngl

im sorry to the vet chat, lets stop talking about megaminds

[mighty escarp]

thats not even fully powered BB either lol

[torn root]

exactly lmao

[burnt monolith]

so how do we feel about the fan fire revo? i think it slaps

[slow spade]

shit on Vet

pain

[torn root]

only thing that slaps is deadshot MK5

🙂

[slow spade]

has the problem of "why use it"

[mighty escarp]

I think at some point, win condition changed from speeding through missions to just surviving encounters

[burnt monolith]

nah man what? turn that thing on a crusher and watch as it turns into dust

was using the plasma gun but it kinda feels bad

[torn root]

columnus? yeah

actually XD

imma keep spreading the word of deadshot columnus until i see more ppl use it

RAIN LEAD!

[mighty escarp]

lol if you have the stam to spare

[slow spade]

Duck and Cover UwU

[torn root]

always got it in my pocket

[mighty escarp]

or you save 1 or 2 gunners behind you so they can just shoot you forever while you chain toughness regen, than Deadshot forever

[torn root]

Duck and Cover + Target Down

[mighty escarp]

then they had to nerf deadshot, no more infinate stamina chaining..

still works just not as well

[torn root]

spread the word!!!

[mighty escarp]

Vet cant have anything....

(although being able to solo damnation demon host with hellfire build was a bit..broken)

[torn root]

i think they might be able to do it again now with recon

just ever so slowly

[mighty escarp]

in 5 seconds?

[torn root]

nah

add like 20

[formal pebble]

The fuck is that

[mighty escarp]

CANT HAVE ANYHTHING

[torn root]

?

[formal pebble]

The gun

[torn root]

the most beautiful gun in the game

[rain badger]

Can’t have shit in vet chat

[formal pebble]

All i can think of is recon

[torn root]

nah

[mighty escarp]

sorry for constantly finding ways for vet to break the balance in the game fatshark...

[torn root]

the recon wishes

[formal pebble]

what is it, my veterans like level twelve

[formal pebble]

That has full auto?

[torn root]

yeah

[formal pebble]

Alright fuck the recon

[torn root]

but you have to burst fire to do what i just did

[mighty escarp]

nerfed us so much, got people thinking plasma is good

[torn root]

im a bit weird but weird is good when you have a whole delete button you can feather

[torn root]

recon is still worth

[mighty escarp]

but its not IAG worth

[torn root]

it can kill crusher packs well, i just dont have one built but a few days ago someone posted a nasty clip

[formal pebble]

i always felt weird shooting armor

[torn root]

recon can go through like 7 crushers no reload

[formal pebble]

with what

[torn root]

dum dum inferno

[formal pebble]

ah

[torn root]

rending strikes, onslaught

[formal pebble]

inferno is pretty good

[torn root]

percision strikes

bring it down

reciprocity not included so might be more

[formal pebble]

The dueling sword seems busted

Slightly

[regal smelt]

dum dum and other close ranged damage boost blessings will always affect dots like inferno no matter the distance since dots basically count as point blank damage

headhunter to meme infinite ammo with the recon though

[torn root]

only memes that delete are allowed

[regal smelt]

deletes the need to ever pick up ammo while holding m1 down the whole game

[torn root]

shit you right

my bad

[mighty escarp]

:I

[regal smelt]

dumdum+ headhunter sucks, trying out headhunter+infernus atm

[torn root]

head hunter is really meme worthy lmao

yo whats the dump stat

0 stability is CRAZY

[worldly pulsar]

Almost always mobility for just about everything that has it

[orchid hemlock]

Bets combo on recon is dumdum/death

[orchid hemlock]

Collat

Headhunter is dependent on what talents you go for

[torn root]

400k to max out a weapon from scraths

jesus

[orchid hemlock]

Headhunter looses value the more crit you have, so in a talent tree with low crit nodes it is valuable

[tall torrent]

no, has falloff

close dmg is full effectiveness up to 12.5m, then linearly falls off to 0% at 30m

after 30m it does essentially nothing

[tall torrent]

collateral

[torn root]

600k to full craft a damge weapon

HOLY HELL

now what perks

[tall torrent]

5% crit chance, flak
dum dum + deathspitter

infernus is a niche pick

[torn root]

not death spitter

perks

ty

[tall torrent]

u run 5% crit chance perk + talent, then get reciprocity

that's about as much crit chance as u need

headhunter's value is surprisingly low

it basically only maintains 1~2 stacks for lasguns

[torn root]

we established it was a meme XD

[tall torrent]

infernus is only okay at saving ammo & boss dmg

12 stacks of burn isn't that many

it's alright

[torn root]

😦

[tall torrent]

good for psyker, not that impressive for veteran

[torn root]

still not no columnus

[tall torrent]

well yea ur missing a flat 32.5% multiplicative dmg increase

and I'm pretty sure azreal ran carapace on his for that clip

[torn root]

i have carapace on it

but requiring exec stance is kinda iffy for me

still not the worst

problem with exec stance which was in the demo is that you specifically have to hate on crushers lmao

on columnus i just gotta shoot

and its still faster with no targeting

[regal smelt]

very certain dots are just always point blank since they used to proc close range kill blessings from any distance back before they specifically made them unable to activate blessings in general

[tall torrent]

DOT doesn't activate "close kill" blessings anymore

[torn root]

back then dum dum was also bugged too

dum dum use to affect damage no matter your range

hey had to fix those interactions

[real flicker]

whats the main differences between the bolt piston and the spearhead?

is one better than the other

[torn root]

fire rate, mobility, ammo, reload speed

not sure what else im missing

swap speed?

[regal smelt]

yeah they don't activate any blessing after the change. I'm assuming fatshark didn't change the range aspect of them.

[real flicker]

i will need to give them both a go, i guess the spearhead is for bossing

[torn root]

depends

you an build regular bolter to snipe, or do boss damage and elite clearing

[hasty otter]

They buffed the bolter so now its actually a decent powerful sniper

[torn root]

not sure how good puncture mod is tho

[tall torrent]

just checked, does nothing after 30m

C.dmg is still generally strong

[torn root]

bolter was always a good sniper

[regal smelt]

you're right, also checking and I see the dmg falloff now

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1292181578411413598/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.10.05_-_00.12.45.09.mp4?ex=67041edf&is=6702cd5f&hm=806d9de47c492d28ded16666ccc45449a7babdb4a76c701ce3517a840f25b524&

[regal smelt]

If only exploit weakness was still just onslaught for ranged crit builds instead of melee weapons

[tall torrent]

Exploit weakness could have been so cool

[opal crag]

For salvo blessings on recon lasgun, is spraying bad for that blessing (2nd 3rd 4th shots dmg buff)? Must I shoot in bursts?

[tall torrent]

But it’s just

[tall torrent]

Yes
Don’t use them

[torn root]

but why?!

[regal smelt]

It should of been for headshots. headshots that stack brittleness. vets aint meleeing for brittleness they're meleeing to 1 shot with dueling/power sword

[tall torrent]

Boltgun is cooler

And that’s not even a magdumping spec’d Boltgun

I don’t have unyielding on it, or cavalcade

[torn root]

NUUH UUH!

[torn root]

mine was without the ability used

lmao

SHOOTY LEAD SPRINKLER IS COOLER

[tall torrent]

Yea but u had deadshot at 15+ stamina

[torn root]

But thats because bolter wouldnt work well with this set up

would only be basically for monster lmao

[tall torrent]

No?

[placid belfry]

dump stat on plasma gun?

[torn root]

yup, gun gun is for everything

[tall torrent]

None, doesn’t have one

[torn root]

just happens to wipe monsters

[placid belfry]

then what stats do i shoot for? 😦

[hardy marlin]

thoughts? mk4 DS and vraks 5 for weapons. wanted a more melee heavy vet, and figured theres better synergies I just dont know about

[regal smelt]

I go for thermal as my dump, charge speed is arguable too

[torn root]

Dont use deadshot without Duck and Dive

[tall torrent]

80 damage, stopping power, ammo
69 thermal resist (8 continuous shots from 0% heat)
As high charge rate as possible after (which is 71)

It’s the only weapon in the game that doesn’t have a dump stat

(It’s also the hardest weapon to perfect roll in the game, period)

[regal smelt]

Knives and staffs kinda

[torn root]

would reccomend you emulate this specifically if you are trying to use dead shot with Vraks Mk 5

[tall torrent]

Knife dump mobility
VB, EK and inferno staff all dump warp resist
VS dump blast radius

[tall torrent]

Plasma doesn’t have dump

[regal smelt]

but muh movement speed

[hardy marlin]

is that still melee heavy enough to reach one shot breakpoints with the ds?

[regal smelt]

I'm also still old warp flurry brained back when you couldn't quell if you wanted to keep stacks

[frank ether]

you have the best mobility in the game regarless of the 0.02 you lost from mobility dump lol

unless its a joke going over my head (I'm short ok)

[regal smelt]

I must move as fast as possible, If I can't get to the finale before my team reaches the first medcae it's over

[torn root]

same build

its not just for my gun

the gun is just the main show

[frank ether]

understandable

[orchid hemlock]

@radiant chasm

[hardy marlin]

dang, power sword still kinda cracked

[torn root]

yeah baybay!

[torn root]

best part

its sunder not brutal momentum

lmao

[pine halo]

best shovel mark?

[orchid hemlock]

i prefer standard

[regal smelt]

just not the default one lol

[orchid hemlock]

because uncanny and skull synergize best with it

[strange crow]

We love standard issue sapper shovel 😍

[frank ether]

but default is the best one...

you can... stun the crusher.. instead of uh... one shotting it

yeaa

[orchid hemlock]

standard has the best universal moveset for all situations

[regal smelt]

tbf if you want to 1 shot crushers there's power sword, and dueling sword exists too now

[torn root]

duelling sword is my recommendation

[hardy marlin]

i really like mk4 on vet

[torn root]

PSword is a harder weapon to use

[frank ether]

Eh I'm very allergic to weapons with poor movesets

so I hate sappers

old shovel kinda kino though

[pine halo]

the fold attack slaps

[orchid hemlock]

fold attack isn't nearly as strong as the ogryns

[frank ether]

It slaps my patience

[orchid hemlock]

plus u can headshot using a push attack anyways on standard and get the same resault

[hardy marlin]

so close

[frank ether]

the gameplay turns into see tough enemy, fold shovel, charge heavy attack

not fun

[torn root]

THIS IS GOOD DOE

[pine halo]

can't really one shot though

[torn root]

you dont need charge rate

[tall torrent]

Nah, missing 8 continuous shots breakpoint

[regal smelt]

69 is the breakpoint for that?

[orchid hemlock]

unless u have thrust, u cant do the same either on the folding

[tall torrent]

Nah, directly impacts rate of fire (including uncharged shots), it’s a feel thing

[torn root]

some charge rate and therman needs some mix tho

[orchid hemlock]

again the push attack has the same damage

[tall torrent]

It’s somewhere like 68 + decimal which usually gets rounded off to 69
For safety sake I just recommend 69

[orchid hemlock]

even on the fold, you prefer to push attack anyways

[regal smelt]

fuck those invisible decimals

[pine halo]

can you hold special action for more dmg?

[strange crow]

Bro I’m actually so mad I had 70 on both thermal resistance and charge rate but when I empowered it rhermal went up to 75 and charge to 65 😭

[tall torrent]

Yea idk why they made a stat system that can only show whole numbers also use decimals

[torn root]

yeah i dont think 7% charge rate is something you are going to miss too much

and you need thermal resistance as well

[tall torrent]

That bug is genuinely turbo annoying

[torn root]

there are no dumps on plasma

[tall torrent]

Only at ~69%

[orchid hemlock]

the hold gives u the same problem as the chain sword, why would you ever want to sit for 2 seconds waiting for the animation to complete?

even on the fold u fold, push attack, push attack

[tall torrent]

After 69% thermal resist does nothing

Even going to 80 thermal resist doesn’t allow u to fire a 9th shot

[orchid hemlock]

heavy fold is bad unless u have thrust

[torn root]

which means they are in range

dafuq?

literally 2% off the mix they would want lmao

[strange crow]

Ikr I literally almost had a near perfect roll but then I dumped my mats to find out the game lied 😭

[tall torrent]

If it’s just below 69% it’s not getting that 8th shot which is very sad

[strange crow]

It’s abt the number of shots breakpoint

[tall torrent]

I had a 70-70 and hadron decided “nah you have a 68-72”

[strange crow]

Bro that’s actually painful

[frank ether]

good recommendation, thanks numbers cat

[strange crow]

So close

[tall torrent]

At least I have a perfect roll now

5M dockets later

[torn root]

oof

[frank ether]

and now I have a godroll rashad

[torn root]

just to get beat by the gun gun

[tall torrent]

Shame that plasma is not even top 3 on vet now

[frank ether]

and now that I was given it for free I don't even have a desire to run it

[hardy marlin]

my child. the poke is so real

[frank ether]

I've been playing agile tac axe instead

[torn root]

KING. OF. GUNS!

[torn root]

NICE

[tall torrent]

Why sustained fire

[dusky elm]

I am using vigilant autogun + tactical axe. Not OP, but keeps me entertained

[torn root]

specifically because it increases ttk on crushers

[tall torrent]

Meh, just go deathspitter instead

[torn root]

and if i were good it would kill the ogryn faster

no

death spitter needs kills

fuck that lmao

[tall torrent]

Do u bring the gun out exclusively for shooting crushers or smth

[torn root]

why burn my stamina to kill a dude so i can just kill an even bigger dude

when i can just kill the guy i want when i want

[torn root]

no i kill all specials, elites and bosses

that is what gun gun is for

[strange crow]

But pouring hot lead into hordes is fun

[tall torrent]

Yea then run deathspitter

[torn root]

no

if im fighting a monster I am not refocusing my fire lmao

yall hype death spitter too much

[tall torrent]

Sustained fire boosts damage for 3 shots

[torn root]

yeah those 3 shots per burst are what give me the ttk on the crushers lmao

[strange crow]

Lol I run sustained firw too dw

[torn root]

this isnt something i just tried out, its something i literally vetted -- i am just now coming back to it

[strange crow]

I just love it for some reason

[tall torrent]

I’m pretty sure it’s more crit RNG than sustained fire

[torn root]

sustained fire has really good uptime when you arent fumbling it

[torn root]

it's both lmao tf are you on about

with deathspitter it would be the same case

such a non issue

[tall torrent]

No like

That 20% extra damage for 3 shots

Is kind of just not as good as +10% crit chance from perk + talent?

This is also testing with no reciprocity stacks

[torn root]

if i had reciprocity stacked both the ogryns and the plague would die much faster

like idk what you want its ammo efficient and doesnt require you to stack

[strange crow]

Wait how many times does deathspitter stack?

[tall torrent]

Just seems like extra effort to ultimately be worse than deathspitter

[tall torrent]

5

[strange crow]

Awesome ty

[torn root]

5

[tall torrent]

It’s +32.5% strength

[torn root]

only when fully stacked lmao

[strange crow]

Fatshark descriptions at it again 🤩

[regal smelt]

definitely not worth it for vraks

[tall torrent]

Nah because deathspitter is +strength which is multiplicative

[torn root]

and then you get deathspitter and have to stack it into a boss

[tall torrent]

It ends up being mathematically favoured

[torn root]

instead of just deleting the damn boss

actually bad the more variables you add

[tall torrent]

It’s better for every situation that’s not boss and u have a power sword

[orchid hemlock]

the other problem with infernus is that it doesn't increase in damage once you reach full stacks it just reapplies the stacks

[torn root]

i could kill a boss in 10 seconds or spend 21 because i want to stack spitter

[orchid hemlock]

yeah also u shouldn't be mag dumping bosses with the recon

[torn root]

power sword is not killing a plague ogryn as fast as i just did

lmao

[orchid hemlock]

recon has low finesse modifiers so it isn't very good into bosses

[torn root]

also you have a power sword you dont need you gun for anything but bosses with the logic

ngl

[tall torrent]

U do realize u don’t have to exclusively rely on ur gun for boss right

[torn root]

Psword legit kills everything else

so why the hell would i want or need death spitter

[tall torrent]

Now ur just making things up that I never said

[orchid hemlock]

a boss isn't a gunner that is 20 miles away

the PS as strong as it is can't fly

[torn root]

sustained is also good at sniping

[orchid hemlock]

sustain sounds worse than death tbh, hell I would rather take infernus for bosses

[torn root]

i will pay to see you kill a boss faster with infernus or death spitter at 0

boss shows up i delete it its that simple lmao, not sure how that not traveling across

[tall torrent]

At 2 stacks of deathspitter, the first 4 shots have more damage than sustained fire

[torn root]

im not using my gun to clear adds

[orchid hemlock]

like yeah in specific scenarios where u are mag dumping a boss and nothing else, sustained and Infernus are better, but hammer is saying that the value outside of those scenarios doesn't justify it

[tall torrent]

This is maths

[torn root]

and anything that is a special and need to be shot death spiteer isnt really helping me kill mush easier

[orchid hemlock]

especially since u shouldn't be magdumping bosses in the first place

[torn root]

yes you should

because the sooner the boss dies the sooner you can get on with life

bosses are the biggest reason to mag dump literally

[orchid hemlock]

again the recon doesn't have good finesse damage, you can dump damage better on a PS

u save ammo and it is more effective

[torn root]

you DO NOT want to waste time clearing shit because the director WILL drop more shit on you

[orchid hemlock]

what?

[torn root]

its also vet, what is ammo?

[orchid hemlock]

what is ammo? everything to vet 💀

[torn root]

i dump 1 and half mag into a boss and you think i NEED more ammo?

[hardy marlin]

if youre not supposed to use your gun on trash, whats a good perk for vraks 5 instead of death spitter?

[torn root]

didnt know 1 and half mag was so much i would be pining for more

[candid agate]

best blessings for the columbness mk 3 headhunter?

[tall torrent]

I see u have 2x +5% ranged damage in ur talent tree, and let’s assume dum dum is at max stacks (+30% C.damage)

First 4 shots with sustained fire
(1+10%+30%) + (1+10%+30%+20%)x3 = 6.2 shots worth of damage

First 4 shots with 2 stacks of deathspitter
(1+10%+30%)x(1+6.5%x2)x4 = 6.328 shots worth of damage

[torn root]

you can

[tawdry jackal]

The drama is real

[torn root]

things arent always JUST about damage and you seem to not be computing that lmao

accessibility

[tall torrent]

Yea, you said u use it to kill specialists & elites, so it can’t be that hard to stack deathspitter

[orchid hemlock]

this I dont understand, if you are fighting a boss and it is agrroing onto you, it is objectively better to use your powersword than magdumping

so what is the point of magdumping?

[torn root]

your stack eventually run out and im not just building to use the gun

[tall torrent]

Again, you’re looking at the slaughterer equivalent on a gun and saying “nah that’s not worth”

[torn root]

chaff exist in your face tho lmao

[tall torrent]

Yea, you can shoot through chaff to hit the specialist behind

[torn root]

you mos def can kite and shoot, AND swap to block

you are acting like you do not have any dexterity in the situation ignoring that fact

[orchid hemlock]

but why? if it is also easier to just stay on my melee?

[torn root]

its also longer

[orchid hemlock]

why would I need to swap around?

[torn root]

to kill faster

do you enjoy long runs or soemthing?

[orchid hemlock]

no it doesn't PS combos do more damage than recon

[torn root]

its not a frigin recon wtf

keep your recon out of the convo if thats your focus lmao

eew

[orchid hemlock]

wait u dont want deathspitter on the vraks 5??

sustained is horrific on it 💀

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/gosling-barbie-ryan-gosling-glasses-gif-1683494050456486364

[torn root]

im opting out of it just so i can delete bosses if i have to type that one more time i might catch an aneurism lmao

[torn root]

unless you arent worried about stacking

say boss comes

[orchid hemlock]

that video isn't really "deleting" a boss but ok

[torn root]

i gotta pull out an empty stacked death spitter

now i gotta stack it

NOW I GOTTA RELOAD

10 SECOND SPASSED

boss could have been dead already

[radiant chasm]

sustained is not helpin you a lot

[torn root]

but it is

[orchid hemlock]

sustained isn't helping u my dog

im pretty sure it is the high finesse, ability, and stim doing that

[torn root]

so try it

simple

prove it

we like to chat and type but not prove anything

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/drive-gosling-i-drive-nightcall-gif-6272351900556304946

[torn root]

i will wait 🙂

[radiant chasm]

it's 20% on 2/4 shots

and you have to let recoil reset

[torn root]

lots of here say no heuristics makes for bad buisiness

[torn root]

3/4

read

[tall torrent]

Ok show a recording of u gun killing plague ogryn where it’s not just standing there

[radiant chasm]

mb

[hearty panther]

2, 3, 4

[radiant chasm]

2,3,4 but you have to stop firing

and let your buff timer reset

[tall torrent]

I’m curious how fast u can actually do it

[radiant chasm]

it doesn't loop during full auto, and for 99% of players, full auto'ing is what they will do

[hearty panther]

if youre weapon swapping its an auto reset

[orchid hemlock]

hell, the fact u need to reset the time for sustained make me wonder if it is increasing the magdumping aspect at all

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/like-skeleton-like-thumbs-up-halloween-like-boomer-like-gif-27119630

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-dance-halloween-party-2023-warsaw-gif-14445693156833998421

[ocean idol]

damn, that vet had dueling sword + las pistol, i wonder how he still got most kills while having 2 single-target damage weapons

[hearty panther]

sprinting between points also pretty much counts the same

[radiant chasm]

honestly with IAGS huge finesse values, punishing might be > sustained as well

20% dmg on 2,3,4 vs 50% weakspot on 2,3,4 plus vet synergizes with weakspots further

[orchid hemlock]

why tf should I waste a blessing for 4 bullets to do a weird weapon switch combo instead of just taking one of the best perks in the game for literally every other situation 💀

[hearty panther]

because agile engagement exists

[ocean idol]

what is that?

[radiant chasm]

yes but this is boss killing specifically

[hearty panther]

one of the best nodes in the game

oh in that case only dumdum and infernus matter

and infernus is shit

[radiant chasm]

if we can't use trash mobs to farm DS/FF, then we can't use trash mobs to farm Agile engagement either

infantry auto guns?

infernus?

ur sounding like me

[ocean idol]

which one

[hearty panther]

right above move speed aura

[radiant chasm]

it's 25% damage to range after melee kill and vice versa

[hearty panther]

that entire cluster is goated

[ocean idol]

Oh, i actually never consiudered using it, damn

+25% damage for 5 seconds

[radiant chasm]

but the conversation is monstro killing specifically, if you are going agile engagement build, i could see punishing/sustained be a net gain

[hearty panther]

punishing only works out if you legit dont miss those headshots

otherwise it circles back to the same issues

[radiant chasm]

but for monstro killing, VIAG simply doesn't need to do weird stuff and DS/FF will help vs the rest of the game

[orchid hemlock]

Why would agile engagement have anything to do with magdumping bosses?

[radiant chasm]

that's what i'm saying!

[hearty panther]

if you just whip your gun out for small bursts, go back to melee, repeat, then itll maintain uptime

and also not waste your ammo

[ocean idol]

So what weapons are considered good now

[timber nimbus]

what are the best dump stats for a rashad and a bolt pistol?

[ocean idol]

I personally find most fun las pistol, recon and bolter

[hearty panther]

bosses are trivial anyway, i dont ever feel the need to magdump one other than for monkee neuron activate

[radiant chasm]

there is no massive shift to the meta,

basically everything but shredder is good enough

[ocean idol]

As if i ever knew meta lol

[radiant chasm]

I mean that's why we are saying, for the average vet pathing survivalist, they aren't going to make proper use of sustained, and monstro killing (w/o trash) is super niche

[hearty panther]

and unlikely

[radiant chasm]

Deathspitter is always good

[hearty panther]

and if its really just a monstro all alone i really hope you don't need all your ammo to fight it effectively lol

take it as an opportunity to learn melee

[tall torrent]

I’m just not sure how fast he’d actually be killing a boss if it wasn’t standing still for him to shoot

[radiant chasm]

and it's not like if you add in trash there will be a massive gap between swapping with agile engagement and salvo blessing vs agile engagement and deathspitter for example

[hearty panther]

the one consolation is agile is 25% off a single kill and for 5s, vs multiple close kills for deathspitter and for less time

[radiant chasm]

no im saying

with trash and with agile engagement

what comes out on top as a secondary blessing

[hearty panther]

in this hyper specific scenario? still neither because you have to play out the rest of the round

[radiant chasm]

DS is 6.5% power *5, sustained is 20% damage to shots 2, 3, 4

i mean yea this whole thing is hyperspecific scenarios

[tall torrent]

I already did maths on this, even at 2 stacks of deathspitter, it’ll boost the first 4 shots’ damage more than sustained fire

With 2x +5% ranged damage in talent tree, and let’s assume dum dum is at max stacks (+30% C.damage)

First 4 shots with sustained fire
(1+10%+30%) + (1+10%+30%+20%)x3 = 6.2 shots worth of damage

First 4 shots with 2 stacks of deathspitter
(1+10%+30%)x(1+6.5%x2)x4 = 6.328 shots worth of damage

[hearty panther]

if youre already good at weapon swapping and staying deep in enemy engagements then you can always maintain sustained fire with no real restrictions beyond your own self control

[torn root]

35 seconds

[hearty panther]

if you find yourself having to occasionally magdump for longer than the salvo can boost then its up to you to figure out or decide which you prefer

[torn root]

not even all head shots

[hearty panther]

i can say for myself that salvo is both much better but also worse than i think it is

[tall torrent]

Ok, not bad by ur standards ig

[radiant chasm]

you aren't reseting sustained fire buff

i'm watching the buff bar

[hearty panther]

but i use it anyway because i dont usually bust my gun out to kill things within 12.5m -- thats slide and melee range

[orchid hemlock]

OK everyone stop the conversation:

https://youtu.be/aAcutw05Gcw?si=M5OBXqKJpVJNSx-i

[torn root]

not efficiently but like i said earlier in chat i just got back to using it

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-dance-gif-20625579

[torn root]

and i did get some procs

if i got back into the flow the kills would only be faster

[orchid hemlock]

Fatshark worse than ganeslantern confirmed 😔

[torn root]

see the thing is yall talk a lot of shit but not showing much

and i never even claimed it was better either

[hearty panther]

idc lol

[tall torrent]

I didn’t record power sword, but I recorded Rashad

[radiant chasm]

im showing the numbers xd

[hearty panther]

live your truth

[mighty escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/rupanti-apu-rupanti-apu-gif-popcorn-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-15576785

[radiant chasm]

play what u wnat

[tall torrent]

Do u want to see it or nah

[torn root]

where?

i wanna see the run where you have to stack deathspitter and have it beat 35 seconds

i wait for you all

[radiant chasm]

no one said this

[torn root]

no we were talking about the gun with death spitter

i am waiting

[radiant chasm]

you are playing for a hyperspecific scenario of monstro+ no trash

[torn root]

you wanted the clip imma need mine

[radiant chasm]

clip this pantsgrab

[torn root]

that's what they asked

but we can scroll and read

[radiant chasm]

yes and that's the issue

if you read the conversation

deathspitter is better for 99% of engagements

[torn root]

THEY CAN DO THEIRS WITH ADDS

[radiant chasm]

including monstro + trash with agile engagement

[torn root]

no one disagreed with this

but i said i rather just use the burst fire of sustained fire MAD early in the convo, FOR CRUSHERS

[radiant chasm]

32.5% power >20% damage on 2/3/4 shots

[tall torrent]

This is what I said (I meant that you still had a power sword for boss damage)

[orchid hemlock]

The disagreement is the usage of the blessing being in a hyper specific scenario doesn't justify the benefits of the frequency of that scenerio

[torn root]

no one claimed this either tho, i said i perferr it for just clipping crushers

[radiant chasm]

if you are mag dumping crushers you should just full auto and build up onslaught xd

[torn root]

and yall got into hyper specifics and one dude started asking for clips as if it was supposed to prove shit

im just saying give me evidence where you are using it to just kill shit faster -- this is not a tall ask

[radiant chasm]

it's not a hard recoil gun, especially with how easy it is to make one post update

[torn root]

like actually

[radiant chasm]

not me lmao

[orchid hemlock]

I mean the situation where I can beat this is literally stacking death on a horde than spray into the head of the Ogryn ☠️

[torn root]

not you

but there was a convo becore you entered

[radiant chasm]

then why you talkin to me about clips u want some ps2 footage?

[ocean idol]

eh, that's not impressive

[tall torrent]

Yea, I was wondering if it would actually kill boss much faster than power sword

[orchid hemlock]

Yes

[radiant chasm]

shit u right

[tall torrent]

Because ur use cases were mostly on targets that u couldn’t stack deathspitter

[torn root]

wasnt meant to impress try again

[orchid hemlock]

Anyways why is nobody talking about Fatshark working with milk and cookies to make a build 🤮

[ocean idol]

?

[thorn lark]

Remind me, onslaught doesn't affect the bleed from puncture?

[mighty escarp]

I missed some stuff...

[tall torrent]

Does, but why

[torn root]

no my one comment is that i rather just shoot the boss instead of stacking it

you can literally just scroll to see that

[radiant chasm]

it should affect the bleed, the fix was that bleed ticks were proccing onslaught, so that's part done

[orchid hemlock]

https://youtu.be/aAcutw05Gcw?si=M5OBXqKJpVJNSx-i

[torn root]

not once did i claim it was optimal

[thorn lark]

Ohhh

[torn root]

but i did claim i can just be shooting the guy especially when you were over here talking about ammo

we can all scroll up to see that

[radiant chasm]

if you wanna play a weird vanguard lite

u can

no need to play goalie

[torn root]

no shit

[radiant chasm]

this ain't the world cup

[mighty escarp]

most IAG blessings arent optimal and not as optimal as they should be either

[tall torrent]

This whole time I was suggesting deathspitter because it’s better for situations outside of crusher/boss, and you still had a power sword for those 2 enemies
Mb, misunderstanding ig

[torn root]

but why come at me about optimal shit if its already agreed its not optimal

[hearty panther]

i miss Vanguard

[torn root]

weird ass ppl

[hearty panther]

how dare they discard my child

MY BABY

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-ok-ok-ok-oh-ok-oh-okay-gif-18238573721271168162

[mighty escarp]

the only reason why IAG is even being used is because shredder was nerfed, Las lost a lot of its usage in auric, and encounter clear became more chaotic

[radiant chasm]

uhh

i wouldn't say that is entirely accurate, patch 13 the autoguns got buffed a lot as well. Las outside of recon is just niche

[radiant chasm]

dum dum is pretty straightforward

[ember folio]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a90b4dc-f331-4a40-b334-6f29a5a97470/indomitable-commissar-crittanksupport
how would this do with a duelling sword and stub revolver instead?

[thorn lark]

Oh hey nai, you missed a lot

[mighty escarp]

lol apparently...

[hearty panther]

Helbores are basically their own class of weapon. Amazing melee and a great gun. Except for that one mark.

[tall torrent]

Laspistol is not niche

[thorn lark]

Viag/ciag is overturned. The only nerf was to lower the crit string from 4 to 3

[mighty escarp]

first word of that sentence

[radiant chasm]

i'd stack frag nade generation cause rev dsword has no crowd control

[orchid hemlock]

U have no wave clear if you do DS and revolver

[torn root]

that did hit the damage kinda decent tho

[tall torrent]

It nerfed crit rate by like 7.5%, not a big deal outside of psyker

[ember folio]

DS m5 doesnt horde clear? or am i missing the terminology

[orchid hemlock]

No it doesn't

[tall torrent]

Crit rate on Autoguns have non-linear scaling because of crit string calculation

[orchid hemlock]

Unless u are a Zealot DS in general have dog wave clear

[ember folio]

wait not m5 sorry m2

[ember folio]

OH that explains it, im a zealot main

[orchid hemlock]

Doesn't matter the mark all DS have piss poor wave clear

[torn root]

they also nerfed the crit interaction from dead shot too

[ember folio]

haha thank you for the clarification

[torn root]

was able to abuse deadshot by starting the shot ads then leaving ads to keep the string

[tall torrent]

Rn, if you build for +10% crit chance from perk & talent, you’ll have ~31% practical crit rate
Pre-nerf, it was 37.4% crit rate with the same set-up

Wasn’t a huge nerf

[mighty escarp]

lol people still harping you on your build huh Kuro

[torn root]

i mean they need something to talk about i guess -- its just weird to get into a talk about optimal shit when before the delve started it was already called that it was anything but

[hardy marlin]

am i supposed to burst, or full auto the vraks?

[torn root]

best start picking off every unoptimal post at this point

[tall torrent]

Vraks V? Full auto

[stuck gorge]

is keep it tight penance broken or is it do we just genuinely move that fast

[mighty escarp]

for as long as I played this game...a person who knows how to play their build to the fullest, is always much much better than a person who is trying to be optimal but can barely handle it...coughPlasmacough

[stuck gorge]

also how was i able to get deadeye penance without even using exe stance 💀

[torn root]

ppl talk about optimal choice and play like shit all the time -- choose not to comment usually

[frank ether]

you cut out the part where IAG was buffed to high heaven

[mighty escarp]

wasnt but sure

[torn root]

it got a massive damage buff

[mighty escarp]

IAG is just the last choice, has nothing to do with the buff, it has everything to do that its big brother got nerfed

[torn root]

when the strings got nefred i think the damage did go up

[mighty escarp]

we dont use IAG cause its good, we use it cause Shredder died

[thorn lark]

Well no

[frank ether]

IAGs are good

[mighty escarp]

compared to shredder before that change, its not even close..

[thorn lark]

Iag is not good because shredder was nerfed

[earnest bone]

rip autopistol you will not be remembered

[orchid hemlock]

Lmao people coming in here trying to justify blessings they don't understand how it works and makes shit up about patches isn't really a discussion about "optimization"

[tall torrent]

They redefined “close” range from 8m to 12.5m which is an indirect huge buff (same patch where crit string nerfed from 4 to 3)

[frank ether]

you're being delusional besides shredder being nerfed

[mighty escarp]

If you played with shredder meta before the change, its not delusional, shredder was just everything IAG was, but better blessings

[thorn lark]

There is no shredder post p13. The meta is just different

[idle swallow]

shredder meta was a long time ago

[radiant chasm]

lol no it wasn't

[frank ether]

You talk as if this is a decade old game

I still remember old veteran

[mighty escarp]

a very long time ago, after that, people settled with IAG, its good dont get me wrong, but shredder was just...king

[radiant chasm]

it had worse base stats even then

it was all pinning fire

literally pinning being nerfed from 100% to 25% max is what did it, then IAGs got their stats buffed more

[frank ether]

and you know what? Current veteran is far more stronger in a more interesting way

[mighty escarp]

HA

[frank ether]

shredder is probably the only thing thats in a worse off position from release

[radiant chasm]

old rambo vet lives on in my heart

[thorn lark]

And all the emphasis on finesse

[radiant chasm]

^

[mighty escarp]

Strongest Vet has even been was Infernus

[radiant chasm]

and a talent tree that buffs finesse more than the old feats

[frank ether]

Current exe is more fun anyway

it has never been this fun

it also opens the ult up to further hybridized gameplay in the future, more interesting nodes instead of boring tax

[torn root]

that but there was also this

Columnus Mk V Infantry Autogun

● Ammunition (0%, 80% Ammo Stat):

○ Magazine: 30, 46 to 50, 58.

○ Reserve: 270, 414 to 500, 580.

● Armour Modifiers (near, far):

○ Unarmoured: 100%, 80% to 125%, 60%.

○ Unyielding: 100%, 80% to 125%, 40%.

○ Maniac: 100%, 80% to 125%, 75%.

○ Flak: 60%, 50% to 80%, 40%.

○ Infested: 100%, 80% to 125%, 80%.

[mighty escarp]

Shredder on vet allowed it to have 3 blessings that synergized with each other and had a higher overall value to it than IAG due to lack of stacking power generation

[tall torrent]

That wasn’t the same patch where crit string got nerfed from 4 to 3, that was like patch 13 / 14 smth I forgot

Crit string nerf was SoMG update

[torn root]

yeah that part was wrong but the IAG did get massive damage buffs

[thorn lark]

Braced are still relevant because they have solid dmg, adms and the ammo was buffed. But objectively during the last year when was the last time you saw people running braced unironically

[radiant chasm]

3? you mean two, it was blaze away pinning

[tall torrent]

But SoMG changing “close range” to 12.5m was a pretty huge indirect buff

[mighty escarp]

no, it could have 3

[radiant chasm]

for deathspitter especially

[mighty escarp]

power usage and stacking power gave it an insane collateral state

basically it got terrorfying barrage for free if you had a god tier shredder

[radiant chasm]

tb is irrelevant

shredder just has a high suppression and stagger score

[mighty escarp]

when its staggering mauler waves from the collaterial, nah, thats big

[radiant chasm]

but the stagger is counter intuitive

[radiant chasm]

you have a ton of options that can just kill them

[thorn lark]

Inspiring was nice after they reworked it.

[tall torrent]

Terrifying barrage doesn’t do stagger, it’s just suppression

[torn root]

stagger DID mean you had to aim better

[mighty escarp]

during shredder meta, no, it was not, it was massively impactful, again, if you played during that meta, theres a reason why everyone used it

[torn root]

still was OP AF

[radiant chasm]

the 3 round burst vanguard, the infantry auto guns, the brautos, the recons

all kill maulers

[torn root]

i was there, its what got me to try vet in the 1st place lmao

can confirm shit was crazy

[radiant chasm]

i literally played since launch, shredder was braindead yes but agri brauto easily kept up lol

[mighty escarp]

lol theres a reason why it got nerfed into the ground after all

[mighty escarp]

then you didnt play it

[radiant chasm]

yes i did xd

you think i didn't have a pinning/BA shredder?

[mighty escarp]

then you were probably a bad vet

[thorny gorge]

i played pysker shedder pistol

[radiant chasm]

bad vet

[torn root]

ppl who say agripina kept up kinda coped ngl

it was 2nd

by a mile or so

not even being rude with it

[mighty escarp]

they wanted it to be equal, but it wasnt even close to the amount of power generation you could get with shredder

[radiant chasm]

power doesn't matter if you have 1.0 cleave anyways

[mighty escarp]

....you dont know this game at all do you

[radiant chasm]

not getting you a BP compared to damage

[radiant chasm]

pure projection

[tall torrent]

Nah it does matter

[mighty escarp]

You know power > damage right?

[radiant chasm]

FF DS agribrauto

[tall torrent]

Giving urself +140% power is something

[torn root]

power matters regardless of cleave

[radiant chasm]

yes i'm specifcally talking about the cleave

[mighty escarp]

....

[torn root]

.>

[radiant chasm]

it's 140% power it got yipee

[mighty escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[radiant chasm]

it needed it

[thorny gorge]

brother

look at the first pin

[radiant chasm]

brother

[thorny gorge]

[mighty escarp]

dude, its fine, you dont know the game 100%, no one really does, dont double down, its good to learn and improve

[tall torrent]

Idk how else to explain this lol, mk8 braced autogun had only 1.5 more cleave, it didn’t matter nearly as much as +140% power

[thorny gorge]

power increases cleave yes?

[tall torrent]

Yea

Shredder base cleave is 1.5

[mighty escarp]

Power increased everything...

[torn root]

and stagger

which also affected cleave

[thorny gorge]

still does yes?

[torn root]

still does

[radiant chasm]

i don't need baby vets telling me that IAGs only got use cause shredder got nerfed

[tall torrent]

Max PF already sent shredder to 3 cleave (same as mk8 braced)

[mighty escarp]

still does, but god, vet always breaks the game due to power generation

[radiant chasm]

the stagger was the one downside and is part of the reason why shredder never recovered from the nerfs

[thorn lark]

Dmg stagger and cleave. Not everything. It does not increase the size of my penis sadly.

[radiant chasm]

it staggers and suppresses enemies to fall over and duck and run

[mighty escarp]

considering you never knew what power did

[thorny gorge]

[torn root]

not saying IAG exists only because shredder left, but like we are actually talking about how fucking broken that shit used ot be

[radiant chasm]

everyone knows strength is damage cleave stagger

[torn root]

you trying to say otherwise is bonkers

[radiant chasm]

everyone knew how bonkers it was lol

[torn root]

saying brauto was even close was also MAD

[radiant chasm]

it was all pinning

now it sucks

[radiant chasm]

true

[dawn garnet]

anyone seen the build in news?

[thorny gorge]

shredder was just broken at one point

[radiant chasm]

it was vet itself carrying that

[dawn garnet]

it fuckin sucks

[mighty escarp]

People still have no idea what power does.

[frank ether]

no one use recons before recons got buffed

you don't use a shit weapon because something busted got nerfed

what kinda warped logic is this