veteran-class

[slow spade]

Its like 0.01s

[sullen scarab]

yeah

LOL

[slow spade]

If you die from that, it wasn't the gun

[sullen scarab]

I think Hammer said its like a 10% rate of fire difference tops

and kind of irrelveant lol

[slow spade]

Even then, its effectively like 0.07s

[sullen scarab]

yeah

i was checking the stats on mine and I was like wow

[slow spade]

Skill issue if you die from 0.07s

[sullen scarab]

bro you don't understand

I was totally dodging that rager

[slow spade]

Pain

[sullen scarab]

Biggest pain is I had what looked like a perfect roll but then Swedish Math turned it into something else

[slow spade]

People still queueing for damnation and can't handle rager patrols

[sullen scarab]

weirdest Swedish Math moment last night lmao

[winter dock]

Its a decent roll

[sullen scarab]

yeah

still fine

[slow spade]

Its essentially perfect

[sullen scarab]

yes lmao

I was just like what with the % changes

[slow spade]

The only reason why people want "70%" is some weird fixation with numbers

[sullen scarab]

it was funny watching it change in real time

yeah lol

aka me 😢

its ok I got one with 69 charge rate, which is a perfect number

[slow spade]

True

[sullen scarab]

but man I really like the game now because when I finish matches and get resources I know I can put them towards making rolls I like

instead of HADRONS EXTREME GACHA MACHINE

[earnest bone]

No more trips to Las Vegas

and returning without pants

[sullen scarab]

yes

i'm finally free

I can finally start playing the game

also I had no idea mobility on the boltpistol had a "sway while moving" modifier lmao

[slow spade]

Queue into damnation with perfect gear -> die to poxwalkers

[slow spade]

Yeah its usually not a problem though

[sullen scarab]

Me trying to show some newbies how its done and instantly falling off the map hitting an explosive barrel

[winter dock]

Rolling steel is such a bullshit mission t.t

[sullen scarab]

some of the people queueing for it are nuts

[winter dock]

1 Pox bomber lands a nade on objective?

Congratulations, automatic loss

[sullen scarab]

yes lmao

fuck pox bomber

[stuck gorge]

Pox bomber also blocking all sight lines for 3 bajillion years so you can’t see any gunners

[sullen scarab]

i fucking hate the pox bomber

[slow spade]

Feels like I need to pack Exe stance + plasma just to kill bombers asap on rolling steel

[stuck gorge]

Also I don’t think I’ve seen a single scab bomber on rolling steel

[slow spade]

I certainly have

But I play a lot of it

[stuck gorge]

I’ve played like 10 ish game so far on it?

[candid agate]

executioner stance wallhacks win again

[stuck gorge]

Ogryn eyes don’t have esp

[split grove]

is there any guns similar to column autogun

i love just mowing through hordes of rager/gunner

[wind ravine]

Does the Penance on over watch include ALL melee damage or just shield melee damage

[last parcel]

jsut health. shield is ok

[wind ravine]

hmm

odd

[umbral garnet]

On Overwatch needs you to not take any health damage. Toughness damage is allowed.

[wind ravine]

I didnt crack my shield at all.

Does stepping on flame count as melee?

[umbral garnet]

Yes.

[wind ravine]

fuck

[umbral garnet]

I think?

[wind ravine]

I took 5 points and thats what did it then

[umbral garnet]

If it didn't pop, then yes.

[lavish solar]

All+3, although I also tested just 2 +3 and it also kinda works if you shoot fast enough (like release immediately at full charge for Helbore mk1)

[undone ravine]

I like at least that, unlike the scab bomber, he wont drop his bomb on his corpse if you kill him after pulling the pin

[sullen scarab]

true lmao

but STINKY

[trim steppe]

Remember when scab bombers had a dead man's trigger up their ass and would drop a nade whenever you killed them? Good times

[crude fiber]

Martyrdom ass bombers

[tall torrent]

Psyker is so broken now holy

[serene bough]

y

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ultraman-beam-finisher-laser-spacium-beam-gif-22356081

[tall torrent]

Keystoneless psyker might actually just be the best class in the game

[scenic merlin]

did you guys cheese "On Overwatch" penance

[tall torrent]

Best class: keystoneless m1 psyker
Every other playstyle: top 4

[trim steppe]

Haven't played psyker since the patch, what's the deal?

[trim steppe]

Nope you just do it legit by playing well

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/SdAdUdt6W9k

Infinite scrier’s gaze 60%+ crit chance electro kinetic staff
No manual quelling needed
Hold M1 and press F from time to time

[trim steppe]

Does staff need transfer peril or anything or is it just straight up broke

[tall torrent]

Transfer peril + surge

Weakspot hits will give u:
more scrier’s gaze stacks
True aim stacks
Quell 10% peril per weakspot hit

[trim steppe]

Nice. Working as intended lol

[tall torrent]

It’s definitely gonna get nerfed

It completely trivializes the game

[earnest bone]

[tall torrent]

More so than pretty much every psyker build before

[thick kestrel]

nrgh.... I remember the bad ol' days of assail...

but yeah that does look more directly powerful

if slightly less braindead

[trim steppe]

At least with this you have to aim, assail at release was bonkers lol

[tall torrent]

It’s more braindead because u get to ignore peril as a mechanic

U don’t even blow urself up with this

No manual quelling needed

[crude fiber]

I tried that yesterday but with the voidstrike staff, guess I'll try surge later

[tall torrent]

EK is the way

Innate 21% crit chance

Plus scrier’s gaze 20%

[trim steppe]

I actually don't think I've tested this, does your staffs bolt attack blow up at max peril or auto quell like the plasma?

[tall torrent]

And u take both crit aura & 5% crit chance talent for 63.5%

[tall torrent]

No peril edging, u just blow up

Which is why u want to minimize the amount of peril u generate with this

[crude fiber]

Scriers gaze has a node to not blow up at 100 peril now during its after effects

[tall torrent]

Transfer peril + battle meditation + empyric resolve + warp unbound (scrier’s gaze modifier)

[trim steppe]

Sure, I just meant innately on the weapon

[tall torrent]

U genuinely have to try to blow urself up

[trim steppe]

I'm gonna try that tonight lol sounds stoopid

[crude fiber]

At least you can't cancel the peril burst at 100% like shriek right?

You can't right?

[tall torrent]

Battle meditation can save u from that if u somehow get to that

But as u can see in the clip

I was just mainly using transfer peril

[crude fiber]

What is that again?

[trim steppe]

Basically don't miss a weak spot hit in the 90s and you're good

[tall torrent]

10% chance to quell some peril on any kill

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s way more lenient than that

U can see I didn’t get even half weakspot hits there

[crude fiber]

I mean if your about to pop and hit f it won't save you like shriek will?

[tall torrent]

Not quite sure

[umbral scaffold]

Is there any elite astra militarium unit that is using automatic lasguns?

[tall torrent]

But tbh u won’t ever reach “you’re about to pop” on this build tbh

The only scenario where this build struggles is CIVI maelstrom

[trim steppe]

Plink plink plink

[tall torrent]

Cuz it has no carapace damage

Boss damage is also quite meh

[trim steppe]

So pair with duelling sword or deimos

[crude fiber]

True, I was just wondering if they added another way to save yourself from being bad

[somber axle]

Elysian Drop Troops

[umbral scaffold]

Thank you

[thick kestrel]

597th Valhallans

[umbral scaffold]

Dammit i really like Cadian Shock Troops but i am not sure if they are using Autoguns because 90% of AM are using mainly Lasguns

[bronze badger]

im enjoying burst firing down enemu ranged troops with execuioners stance and the infantry autogun. however, the blessings seem to be based on close ranged kills, which seem a bit strange since it feels like if the enemy is within 12m its time to switch to melee. thoughts?

[slow spade]

Elysian Drop Troopers use the recons

[crude fiber]

The blessings are pretty meh for autoguns tbh. Give them some crit blessings

[thick kestrel]

Cadians are almost certainly going to be using Lasguns (infantry pattern in Darktide), they're THE template for standardised guard regiments and before it fell Cadia was basically one giant fortress where everyone was enlisted from birth.

horrible place to live and be born aside their entire structure basically entitled them to standardisation of equipment across the board, random autoguns would be rather unlikely to be kept in stock.

[slow spade]

Wouldn't doubt if guardsmen from Vostroyan had automatic lasguns as they have access to more high quality gear

[thick kestrel]

it kind of depends on the situation? close range Exe-stance does have a place and some uses as a tactic. infantry and braced autoguns do quite nicely with that big boost to base damage, the trick is you need to adjust your approach from "front line" to second line support.

you ideally want a good ogryn or zealot ahead of you to create a buffer and your job shifts from anti-shooter over to anti-elite... you want to quickly and efficiently take down ragers and ogryns as fast as possible to allow your melee team mates to push through and slaughter the chaff.

interestingly it works rather well with the braced autoguns, with you hip firing the gun rather than bracing... you want a blessing like hit and run though because you are VERY vulnerable to enemy shooters while doing so...

[tall torrent]

Cadian shock troops use lasguns mainly, with elite Kasrkin soldiers with hotshot lasguns & plasma guns

[thick kestrel]

it's far from optimal, but it can be done

and a LONG time ago was actually a top end play style (back in the days of the Vermintide style skill tree)

[bronze badger]

i see. i guess even with no blessings i dont really need help taking down enemy shooters, so close range power is good

[thick kestrel]

mhmm, the trick is you are still vulnerable overall, because exe-stance builds are a bit squishy

so you need to be aware of what's going on and accept that sometime's you'll just waste the exe-stance activation

[terse idol]

Well

[thick kestrel]

it's fun, but it's not "meta"

(which as an aside is a good enough reason to try it)

[terse idol]

With mf and exe you can be pretty tanky by trading shots with gunners

[thick kestrel]

true

[terse idol]

Also we have waaayyy more damage now than with the old tree

[candid agate]

mf?

[tall torrent]

No u can just run ghost and tank shooters forever

[thick kestrel]

also true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the old days of the Rambo Vet aren't really around anymore ^^

[bronze badger]

i like endlessly chaining executioner stance by bursting dreg shooters 😄

[umbral scaffold]

Suddenly no hotshot in darktide

[tall torrent]

It’ll prob be added later on

The main concern is that, hotshot lasguns are powered by a battery backpack (like the ones u see on scab gunners), and that’s kind of hard to implement with the current cosmetic system

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah i guess that would be an issue

[balmy flume]

Meltagun when

It’s gonna be like shotgun on steroids…

[orchid tartan]

Dave Darktide

[sleek garden]

bring a catachan sword, marksmans focus with unwavering focus, and exhilarating takedown

[umbral scaffold]

Are autoguns more used by armageddon steel legion?

[sleek garden]

Every headshot gives you back a third of your toughness

The catachan is extremely safe against all enemies

Except crushers

[tall torrent]

I think imperial guard regiments generally use primarily lasguns

[sleek garden]

Exhilarating takedown also gives you extra toughness damage reduction

[slow spade]

Most guardsmen use lasguns but PDFs and whiteshields probably use autoguns due to being fodder

[tall torrent]

Autoguns are more planetary defense forces / hive gangers / enforcers

[umbral scaffold]

That's what i suddenly read everywhere hoping to find exeption

[tall torrent]

What are u looking for exactly

[umbral scaffold]

Well i am trying to be as lore friendly as possible but i also wish to use more weapon variety on my vet, which is pretty tough since more than 90% of regiments are using lasguns

[tall torrent]

Lore-wise we’re ex-convicts being fielded whatever that’s available to go fight a rebellion led by an elite traitor guard regiment and a nurgle cult

I don’t think it matters what regiment ur character is from, they’d use what they’re given

[split grove]

besides the column autogun what other gun can i use to mow down hordes of mixed horde

[sleek garden]

lawbringer, scatter shot and man stopper

[grim widget]

standard for most melee weapon perks is +dmg against maniacs and flak right or has it changed to +dmg against flak and unarmored?

[umbral scaffold]

So i don't have to feel heretical for using Autogun on my Cadian Shock Trooper build

[candid agate]

umm, the braced columbness autogun

[split grove]

lawbringer is combat shotgun or double barrel?

[lavish token]

Bolter goes so hard

[pseudo fiber]

For most yeah

[sleek garden]

Combat shotgun it's called the zarona now, sorry

don't know why

[split grove]

ok perks?

[tall torrent]

It really does

[lavish token]

Pinning bleed

[sleek garden]

Whatever you want? You use the special shell

[tall torrent]

No

[sleek garden]

so maybe reload speed

And unarmored

You'll be aiming at head level in hordes

[split grove]

wow i've never seen that combo of perks before

[sleek garden]

it's just what I use

you reload the special shell a lot

And the shotguns take a minute to reload

[tall torrent]

I run puncture + shattering rn

[broken gazelle]

good ole dave

[split grove]

is agri or column better for the vet

[sinful swallow]

Puncture surgical x46

[split grove]

for zealot people reco the agri

[tall torrent]

Puncture is nice for some breakpoints

[candid agate]

column i think but im no meta man

so dont trust me too much

[lavish token]

I like the agri brauto on ij zealot

[grim widget]

for a plasma gun i want +maniac/unyielding with rising heat and gets hot right?

[split grove]

yeah i use agri brauto on ij zealot

[tall torrent]

Unarmored/elite + flak/maniac
rising heat + gets hot

[split grove]

for veteran idk if column or agri

[sleek garden]

If you want the shotgun to do better against single targets you could trade man stopper for no respite

[tall torrent]

Unarmored, elite, flak & maniac all help with some breakpoints

[trim steppe]

Gonna give that build a go lol, was fun in the psych at least

[tall torrent]

Depends on ur talent configuration

[split grove]

i've legit never tried the shotgun on vet before

time to find one

[sleek garden]

Beware that Lawbringer compared to the others is possibly the weakest

It carries its range much better than others but does less damage on its primary

[split grove]

if i want anti cara is it boltor and plasma?

[sleek garden]

You can somewhat effectively snipe with it at least

[split grove]

and zarona revolver

i'm just testing some loadouts

some of em leave me with like no cara

[sleek garden]

Yes but there are ways to make fast firing guns punch through their armor

and you can try and bring some kraks or different melee

[split grove]

can recon lasgun kill armor with the brittle?

lol

[sleek garden]

Yes I've seen videos and people in my games do it

[odd sparrow]

ye dececntly effectivvely

[tall torrent]

Boltgun, Zarona revolver

Plasma is ok at it but not worth magdumping for that purpose

[split grove]

recon lasgun is a midrange gun is it?

[odd sparrow]

depends on mark

2 of them are long range 1 is close range

[sleek garden]

Executor stance and charging it feels fun

It just doesn't kill in two shots

it will kill everything around a crusher though

[split grove]

for boltor on veteran do u ads and headshot or just full spray and try to hit head

[mighty escarp]

Been too long since I've looked in here.. looks like nothing has changed

[sleek garden]

I like to aim

[bronze badger]

so whats the meta anti horde melee weapon for veteran?

[sleek garden]

a combat axe of all things

[umbral scaffold]

Oh and before i get one...which Autogun is the best one?

[split grove]

i bet it's like rashad bm headtaker

i saw vet had rashad so its gg

[sleek garden]

They're all pretty good

[split grove]

why vet have so many good stuff

[umbral scaffold]

One has to be overally best

[split grove]

i can't pick things

rahhh

[sleek garden]

Graia then I guess

The blue one is what people will say

hard to control recoil fires super fast

[split grove]

which autogun, infantry or vigilant or braced

[sleek garden]

melts single target

I prefer the columnus because I can one shot scab shooters to the head

agripinaa is the heavy hitter

[umbral scaffold]

🤔🤔

[candid agate]

embrace headhunter superiority

[sleek garden]

Erm they're vigilant autoguns now 🤓

[mighty escarp]

Infantry of you use execution, braced for shout. Columnus infantry for chains, agri or graia for the damage

[candid agate]

headhunter will always sound better

[sleek garden]

I do like the double shot vigilant autogun

[tall torrent]

Rashad mk3 combat axe

[sleek garden]

I like headhunter better as well

[bronze badger]

ty!

[sleek garden]

Idk why they changed it

[tall torrent]

Psyker is the best class in the game rn

[sleek garden]

Headhunter sounds cooler and is accurate to the ridiculous headshot modifier they have

[tall torrent]

Vraks Mk V
Columnus Mk VIII
Are the better infantry autoguns

[sleek garden]

All the classes are the best

they all have some ridiculous stuff

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk VId/Recon Mk XII can melt Crushers with Rending Strikes, Onslaught and Shock Trooper

Headhunter + Dum Dum if you don't like Reciprocity

Dum Dum + Deathspitter if you like Reciprocity

You can swap in Infernus if you like setting things on fire but it is a bit less damage compared compared the above options

Get Carapace and Crit Chance and melt Crusher faces off

[tall torrent]

Nah there’s 1 psyker build that’s just head & shoulders above the rest, and every other class is top 4

[umbral scaffold]

Thanks for help

[sleek garden]

I don't like gun psyker

[somber axle]

Don't shoot Crushers with the other two Recon variants imo

[tall torrent]

It’s not gun psyker

[somber axle]

Slower fire rates make them awkward for using Onslaught

[split grove]

is XII the fastest one?

[sleek garden]

Then it's a guy with a staff

That's just psyker

[somber axle]

Rending Strikes isn't enough and even if you run a funny Marksman's Focus + Chink in their Armour build you still have worse damage on Crushers

Also yeah the XII is the fast firing one

[fleet garden]

just get a duelling sword and 1tap crushers 4head

[mighty escarp]

Purg pysker

[fleet garden]

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/SdAdUdt6W9k

[mighty escarp]

Purg pysker is a vets best friend

[somber axle]

It is very satisfying melting Crusher faces off with a Lasgun

[sleek garden]

my exy stance veteran can do it all except take on a crusher horde

[somber axle]

You need some major source of crit to combo with Shock Trooper though

Headhunter, Deadshot or Reciprocity

[slow spade]

Plasma exe stance 😎

[frank basin]

Saw other video title infinite blue ball

[somber axle]

One is enough, you don't need to get them all

[slow spade]

No you don't

[sleek garden]

I am currently trying that for mastery

[slow spade]

Just be lucky

[sleek garden]

it's fun

My normal build involves an infantry lasgun though

[somber axle]

You can still kill them without good crit chance but your ammo will disappear quick

Unless you play mostly melee and swap to Recon sparingly

[slow spade]

REAL vets are lucky and shocktroopers is infinite ammo

[mighty escarp]

Was

[slow spade]

Just never miss a proc

[somber axle]

It's important to have Shock Trooper for more than ammo conservation though

Free shots means more shots between reloads

[mighty escarp]

Used to be infinite

[somber axle]

Less downtime

[frank basin]

I don’t run shock since I swap between auto and lasgun

[somber axle]

Always shoot, never stop

[frank basin]

Back old Patch shock was funny infinite ammo

[somber axle]

You don't really need Shock Trooper for the Infantry Lasguns or Helbores but it does make their ammo concerns a non-issue

[mighty escarp]

Survivalist nerf was so hard

[frank basin]

No more free ammo on hunting grounds

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper feels necessary for Recons since they're a bit more ammo thirsty though

To avoid being an ammo goblin stealing all the tins/packs from your team

[sleek garden]

do you guys actually have ammo issues in your games though

[mighty escarp]

People still take ammo from the vet?

[sleek garden]

I've had like 4 games over the entirety of the game lifespan where everyone on the team runs out of ammo

ammo isn't scarce

[tall torrent]

Depends
Outside of CIVI maelstrom it’s just a matter of if there’re Gunlugger(s) on the team

[mighty escarp]

Happens based on the team makeup

[sleek garden]

God I could not get gun lugger to work but I couldn't figure it out

I didn't know what was going wrong

I don't think I like the twin linked stubbers

[bronze badger]

does power cycler get cancelled if you get hit before getting off our 2nd and 3rd hitts?

[split grove]

gunlugger is generally achlys stubber + pbs with the cdr on elite kill

[sleek garden]

ripper gun does what I want it to do without point blank barrage

[bronze badger]

feels like ive gotten staggered and had to recharge my power sword

[split grove]

pbs u must take the burn

[mighty escarp]

Usually happens when people use ammo too much or unnecessarily

[split grove]

then just full spray achlys and u will regen toughness while shooting

[sleek garden]

Why burn

[split grove]

the burn damage is quite massive

[frank basin]

My friend play zealot and he use ranged weapon most time.

[split grove]

u can burn crushers to death

[mighty escarp]

Or if you are going too slow through a mission, you will 100% run out of ammo.

[split grove]

U also want to take rending on elite kill in the talents

so kill something smaller like a rager or gunner then swap to the crusher

and melt him

The burn + rending will do the work

[mighty escarp]

And I'm not talking knife speed, just you are taking too long to clear each encounter

[vestal widget]

going too slow is also correlated with newer players, who are generally also more wasteful of ammo

[sleek garden]

The only build guide I ever looked up was for Outriders lol

That game was fun when I figured out the build

[split grove]

for gunlugger capstone don't go for the crit one (although u can)

[mighty escarp]

I tend to get that more with more seasoned players.. seen people over 1500 who are just too slow or ineffective

[split grove]

but go for the melee or tanky capstone

[mighty escarp]

Too many people trying to cover every armor type instead of specializing in something

[split grove]

i mean, there's a ton of loadouts that cover everything really

i always go in with the mindset of i'll drag ur dead corpse with me if i have to

[mighty escarp]

That's the issue, you go faster if people are specializing and you support it.

[sleek garden]

There's a few builds that unironically make the game boring

[split grove]

the issue with some of the loadouts that i use that cover everything is that it's boring after a while

then u just specialize or roleplay for fun

[sleek garden]

I've never had a more boring auric maelstrom than with the commanding shout revolver power sword veteran

he never got touched

[split grove]

commanding shout is just so damn good

[vestal widget]

the one time i queued with an unironically really good smite psyker

i might as well have unbound lmb

[split grove]

i'm actually becoming terrible at the game

i'll just cshout

[sleek garden]

i hope they make shooters even scarier

[split grove]

and be like nah i'd win

[frank basin]

Smyker no smiting

[mighty escarp]

I go exe, never run shout, too slow

[sleek garden]

imagine you couldn't just slide over and over at a gunner and actually had to shoot at him

[frank basin]

Do quick aim on exe stance then you’ll win

[sleek garden]

the zealots would keel over

[vestal widget]

spare a thought for the poor psykers

[mighty escarp]

Most cases in pugs, shout tends to do nothing, but exe i can kill all the problems before they become a problem

[frank basin]

Shout is defensive

Exe is offensive

[mighty escarp]

Yup, don't need to worry about it if the issue is dead

[frank basin]

Shout tactic is to stagger melee enemy blocking you or ganging up on you

[mighty escarp]

Esepcially since Exe doesnt cancel on stun or weapon swap now

[frank basin]

Exe just take out ranger problem

[mighty escarp]

??? yeah?

[frank basin]

The shout upside give 50 toughness

And stagger enemy

Around you

[mighty escarp]

??

[frank basin]

That make cheesy build

[mighty escarp]

how?

[frank basin]

Toughness boost

[mighty escarp]

why do you need that?

[frank basin]

And radial stagger

That’s what people busy meleeing horde

Exe doesnt regen your toughness if you got some trash mob behind you tap your back

[mighty escarp]

If people are meleeing hordes, then I'll take out the shooters while they do that so they arent interupted

[frank basin]

Yeah if they not covering your back then there is problems

[mighty escarp]

?? wait...do people not do the toughness regain shield anymore?

[frank basin]

No for exe stance

Only shout do

[mighty escarp]

yeah, do people dont stack regain effectiveness to become a walking tank?

[frank basin]

Those old feat gone

[mighty escarp]

wow, lost skill...it really has been too long

[frank basin]

No more volley fire

[mighty escarp]

?? its still there, I use it even now

[terse idol]

I mean

[vestal widget]

shout's OP because of yellow toughness

so you can just tank overheads and bursters

[terse idol]

Shout literally gives you like 99% damage reduction

The uptime is insane

[bronze badger]

alright, got the axe. im trying to set up the metaslave build to try out auric missions. whats the ranged wep i should use?

[terse idol]

Doesn't struggle if you can't kill

Exe does

Exe also struggles vs bosses because no resets

[mighty escarp]

I dont kill the bosses

[terse idol]

Exe also doesn't give your entire team a benefit

[mighty escarp]

I kill everything else so my team can handle the boss solo

[frank basin]

If you’re god aim use exe stance kill ranger fast as you can before you get back tap by melee mob

[trim steppe]

Metaslave? Zarona revolver

[terse idol]

It's only you

[last parcel]

zarona revolver to metaslave

[terse idol]

That's a good idea

But you do want to do damage

[mighty escarp]

I do do damage

[terse idol]

Yeah

[frank basin]

Oh the special highlight teammate is also a benefit for teammate

[terse idol]

Voc is still just better 😭

[terse idol]

Talent point tax waste

Ima be real!

[bronze badger]

cheers

[frank basin]

If he want benefit teammate he might gonna use that

Or he just benefit himself get rid problem

[last parcel]

make sure you pick up always prepared under weapon specialist

[trim steppe]

take VOC and weapon spec and have fun running train on everything in existence

[frank basin]

Shout stagger everything even boss; except traitor captian has void shield

[last parcel]

choo choo

[vestal widget]

try not to manually reload if you have always prepared

just kill 1 enemy - swap to ranged and back -> kill next

five enemies reloads your revolver

[bronze badger]

whats voc?

[vestal widget]

voice of command

[last parcel]

middle ability

[frank basin]

The shouty

[mighty escarp]

all you do is take confirmed kill, and Iron will, kill 3 specials/elites, maintain the buff through chains, and dodge effectively, I rarely take any health damage through hordes, and once the bigger issues are down, then I go melee and support the front

[frank basin]

Exhilarating takedown synergy

[mighty escarp]

dont take it

[frank basin]

Is useful

[mighty escarp]

dont need it

[frank basin]

Aren’t you masterheadshotting?

Or just average aim

[mighty escarp]

Columnus IAF, just average aim, just good reactions and chains

[frank basin]

Okay I guess is your choice

Exe stance is treat as sniper special ability

[mighty escarp]

...wtf?

people really think that now?

[frank basin]

Can pair with revolver and snipe across map

Deal high damage

Even with agripinna the fanning revolver with exe stance also deal lot damage on monstrosity

Combine with red stim boost

[mighty escarp]

usually can do that with my columnus pretty well, unless its miles away then I just run and let them come to me

[dry crypt]

guys whats a good talent tree for a fresh vet char

[candid agate]

should i sacrifice a stamina or health curio for another tougness curio on an executioner stance build

[frank basin]

You use with Columnus exe stance dmg boost but doesn’t make yourself both tanky and high damage

[mighty escarp]

???? yes it does

[vestal widget]

yeah almost everyone takes voc atm because you get all that tankiness for free

[mighty escarp]

The only things that usually beat me in damage is a purg pysker

[vestal widget]

you get a full toughness refill + yellow toughness that stops bursters and overheads

[frank basin]

Old time the feat called unwavering focus giving your toughness damage reduction

With sustain fire feats reload all your ammo on cast ability

[mighty escarp]

? do people not know how to melee stagger anymore? or grenade plant?

[vestal widget]

you need near-zero skill expression for voc to be mostly effective, the most skilful use of it is remembering to use it in case your teammate forgets to push bursters,

or to proc skullcrusher or whatever

[trim steppe]

Here you go: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d26cb79-71e4-470e-943b-878c881534ba/metaslave-rashad-zarona

[split knot]

Guys i think i missed smth, where tf my colomnus V?

[vestal widget]

renamed vraks now

[dry crypt]

autogun

[frank basin]

Shout is too useful keeping team alive and push any kind enemy like crusher and mauler they fall down

[split knot]

which vrax?\

[vestal widget]

vraks infantry auto gun

[dry crypt]

infatry

[frank basin]

Funny you can shout push boss off the cliff

[mighty escarp]

I can understand that, most cases when I play with a shout vet, they usually use it to stagger crushers/maulers if they get into trouble or caught alone, but normally if a group of crushes show up, grenade them, knock them down, then just melee 2 dead while kiting the 3rd or 4th

[trim steppe]

got renamed to Vraks Mk5 Infantry Autogun

[frank basin]

Grenade like shredder is very good staggering

So you have all stagger loadout

Is very nice

[mighty escarp]

yup, which is why I bring it. Usually just to help set up the rest of my group, but my grenade is only used specifically to save someone who fell behind and got hit by a dog, or to stagger crusher waves

[frank basin]

Good use

Run whatever suitable for you, shout is overused

[mighty escarp]

its nice to have yellow toughness but...I guess I dont see the value unless things are going extremely badly

[frank basin]

I run exe stance agripinna revolver because “It’s high noon” 🤠

[vestal widget]

i mean it lets you survive crusher overheads so you can just ape crusher packs

[mighty escarp]

(plus, rather have the zealot book with me)

[trim steppe]

Oh and heres the Zarona loadout

[vestal widget]

with zero fear of being downed

[frank basin]

Shredder upon them then you’re good

[mighty escarp]

I miss my shredder

[vestal widget]

there's like pages of ppl complaining on here about yellow toughness being boringly OP

[frank basin]

Krak nade is risk reward if you can pack up the crusher

[mighty escarp]

really?

[frank basin]

Lol people are wacky

The book chorus also give 100 yellow toughness

20 each pulse

Also push the boss

[mighty escarp]

that or easy boss kill

[split knot]

why they even touched my boy??😭 Vrax sounds like stigma

[bronze badger]

thanks. i thought mobility would be the dump stat?

[frank basin]

Using death invocation spam the book is funny for me

[mighty escarp]

When I was active in here more, people were just complaining about shredder vet needing to be nerfed

[frank basin]

Masochist player perhap

Nerf everything make like dark soul

Casual player gone down

Hardcore remnant remain

[vestal widget]

your whole team can tank sniper shots, bursters, overheads, etc. it staggers all enemies around you and totally refills your toughness, erasing your whole last mistake.

[crude fiber]

Probably more so complaining about how often you can shout to get the yellow toughness if your killing a bunch of specials

[teal abyss]

I’m not saying it’s OP but an instant +50 toughness that knocks back all enemies once and lets you still use your gun is WAYYYY better than Chorus lmao

[mighty escarp]

that makes sense I guess...I usually kill those issues before they get to be an issue in most cases

[teal abyss]

Chorus is only good for stun locking monstrosities

[frank basin]

Can it push the boss to the edge? I think just 2m push range

[crude fiber]

Chorus is good for revives in super shitty situations or meme ledging bosses

[mighty escarp]

ahh, they think its a crutch then

[frank basin]

I like meme ledging boss

[vestal widget]

also yeah if you're good at killing specials you get it back realllly fast

[frank basin]

Insta kill

[vestal widget]

so your team spends a lot of the game immune to those things

i have never managed to ledge a daemonhost

[frank basin]

Staying alive is first thing priority

[vestal widget]

i have never had the presence of mind to remember i can do that while fighting one

[trim steppe]

Mobility is fine as a dump stat. But with weapon spec sub talent reloading your gun on melee kills you dont really need reload speed

[mighty escarp]

That makes sense then, people tend to look down on those things, but god....thinking about having to rely on shout to get through content sounds boring as hell and slow

I have a stable group to play with these days so we just zoom though stuff, unless we get a plasma..then its babysitting duty

[frank basin]

Stagger daemonhost and let the team mag dump PBB and Exe stance on daemonhost dead quickly

I run plasma using infiltration

: )

[mighty escarp]

out of 50 plasma vets I get...only like...1 is ever good enough to keep up, let alone can aim it

[vestal widget]

i know how to boss damage builds, but i just want to ledge a daemonhost once

[frank basin]

Ledge the daemonhost at the bridge is funny

Provoke it, cast it, ledge it, profit

[slow spade]

Plasma vets are surprisingly rare and surprisingly shit

[vestal widget]

it seems like mostly noobs playing plasma now. rarely see plasma vet get top special+elite damage apart from the kind of guy who only plays psword/rashad + plasma meta builds.

[atomic zephyr]

all the good players found it boring and all the bad players crutched
now that its been reeled back, its just the bad players now

[frank basin]

Yeah I use power sword

With plasma

Dying is uncommon for me

[mighty escarp]

eh, they appear pretty often, but most end up running ahead cause everything dies before they can pop off, then they get caught by something, pop all their shots, everything is still alive, and they die, then leave

[bronze badger]

i didnt really look at curios at all during my time playing this game. looks like we cant change the main boost, only the perks. is the play to look out for the right main boost in melks shop or something?

[slow spade]

Don't worry, I can handle sedition 😎

[vestal widget]

in the brunt sho

then upgrade

[inland orchid]

brunt sells them now

they're pretty solid main boost wise

[slow spade]

Brunt and melk

[vestal widget]

you want 17% toughness, 21% hp, 3 stamina

[tall torrent]

Nah

[frank basin]

I once run branx pickaxe ogryn then 3 psyker died early level. I clutch short time then later they died again I tried clutch and failed

[slow spade]

Its not like you're using melk for anything else

[vestal widget]

but really you won't notice the difference in less than max values

[tall torrent]

200+ health and 20% sniper resist
Rest is really personal preference

[vestal widget]

oh i'm just saying max values

[slow spade]

He meant max values

[tall torrent]

Oh ok

Mb

[vestal widget]

is the 75 3-stam still a thing btw

[tall torrent]

I’m attempting to cook up an exe stance recon Lasgun build to replicate that funny psyker m1 thing

[vestal widget]

because i can't see what the old curio ratings are any more

[mighty escarp]

I run 2 tough, 1 health (just for the tank vet style)

[slow spade]

I think so but I can't tell anymore

I run 3 toughness

[frank basin]

Discount gunker

[slow spade]

Just never get hurt

[tall torrent]

Yea I was actually dumbfounded by how absurd that build was

[vestal widget]

what build?

[frank basin]

Exe stance recon

[slow spade]

Ikr, I had a game with 2 of them and I didn't get top elite kills

[tall torrent]

Electro kinetic staff psyker with m1 spam

It’s the strongest build in the game by far

[slow spade]

Plasma vet not having top elite kills

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/SdAdUdt6W9k

[mighty escarp]

what a silly build...

[frank basin]

I believe he use surge blessing

[tall torrent]

Surge + transfer peril

It’s insane

[frank basin]

True

[mighty escarp]

meanwhile, purg...

[frank basin]

Well too bad for me the blue ball are projectile not hitscan

Hard for me hitting side running moving target like rager

[mighty escarp]

just purg, dump in power, chain fire...everything dies

[frank basin]

Blaze away with nexus on inferno staff is funny

[mighty escarp]

cant believe they gave purg fire frenzy, lol

er blaze away

[slow spade]

A shame the rending blessing doesn't do much for purg

[vestal widget]

i wonde rif you can play the game using only purg lmb

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s not nearly as good as EK surge spam

[mighty escarp]

HAHHA kay

[vestal widget]

i should try transfer peril, i currently have nexus/surge on my surge surge lmb spam build...

[tall torrent]

Inferno staff is super strong yea but this surge thing is smth else

[mighty escarp]

I have a buddy who did elec...they switch to purg real quick after they had nothing to do

[tall torrent]

It’s actually just “everything dies before u can get close to them”

It’s absurd

[mighty escarp]

yeah?

[slow spade]

Surge is good vs elite/spec

But the fact we had 2 deaths with 2 lmb spammers shows it lacks vs hordes lol

[mighty escarp]

no real cleave value

[slow spade]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it was from a barrel

[verbal burrow]

So uh

[slow spade]

But can't remember

[mighty escarp]

fair enough

Surge is nice in some situations, but compared to a compowered BB shout pysker....especially now, it loses its flavor

[verbal burrow]

As a former Ironbreaker player from Vermintide 2, I am used to leaning pretty heavily into Block Cost Reduction and Stamina Regeneration, and whilst that serves me excellently when rezzing teammates, it doesn't really seem to be giving much value in other cases. Is my plan a bit outdated by 40k years?

[mighty escarp]

the fact that you have to keep rezzing teammates is already a problem

[verbal burrow]

This game is about planning for problems

[slow spade]

Your plan doesn't account for enemies having guns

[verbal burrow]

Yeah that hit me recently

literally

[tall torrent]

The best kind of support in this game comes in the form of killing everything as fast as possible

[slow spade]

Vermintide 2 sadly does not prepare for a machine gun team

[mighty escarp]

or stagger chaining

[verbal burrow]

Oh it did you just held RMB and your shield blocked everything

[frank basin]

Ratling gun

[verbal burrow]

I captain America'd the fuck out of ratlings

[slow spade]

Exactly

No shield

[frank basin]

Become shieldgryn

[mighty escarp]

unless you ogryn

[verbal burrow]

So you're saying maybe switche from Veteran to Tankgryn

[slow spade]

Sadly we are vets here

[frank basin]

Vet don’t get shield stuff

Only ogryn has it

[vestal widget]

overall shieldgryn still mostly tries to gapclose rather than shield plant

[slow spade]

Shield ogryn got a buff recently

[frank basin]

New blessing

Yeah new blessing

[slow spade]

If you're planning to try, its pretty good

[verbal burrow]

I am aware. But sadly, since we are all vets, what can I do to not be too much of a glass cannon?

[frank basin]

Dumpstat be defences?

[vestal widget]

toughness is very strong on vet when you have iron will

it gives you massive toughness damage reduction

[frank basin]

Just use voc and you get tanky

[verbal burrow]

So re-evaluate my build to toughnessmaxxing and find people with working headsets?

[mighty escarp]

Iron Will + Toughness regeneration talents

[vestal widget]

i don't think headsets are necessary

[mighty escarp]

nah, you can pug it easily

[slow spade]

Vet doesn't allow mistakes

[frank basin]

I have two 17% toughness and one wound on my vets

[slow spade]

So don't make any

[verbal burrow]

I mean, it'd be nice to play with some people who don't just go radio silent and act like Russian Counter Strike players

[tall torrent]

Why do u need to toughness max

[vestal widget]

looking in lfg channels here might be your best bet

[slow spade]

Why wouldn't you?

[mighty escarp]

you can play without comms, just ping and eliminate threats

[tall torrent]

There’re so few scenarios where 274 toughness would perform better than 200+ health

[slow spade]

Except the ones where you're being shot

[dry crypt]

do caparace and unyielding enemies overlap? or am i tweaking?

[mighty escarp]

You take high toughness for when you have high tough regain so you can play more aggressive and tanky without risk of damage

[tall torrent]

And even with 200+ health u can still get to 200+ toughness on some builds

[mighty escarp]

yeah, but its based on your toughness regen

old vet used to be able to take crusher overheads due to it

[tall torrent]

Ranged attack immunity goes crazy ig

[tall torrent]

Not regen, TDR

[mighty escarp]

no..regen

Old vet used to be able to stack certain talents to gain insane regen

[inland orchid]

a singular talent:

https://tenor.com/view/mercy-overwatch-come-here-gif-14280244

[tall torrent]

Confirmed kill + unwavering focus

[mighty escarp]

no

Iron will

[slow spade]

75% damage resist is fair and balanced

[tall torrent]

Iron will is TDR…

[mighty escarp]

just Confirmed kill and Iron Will

thats all you needed because your overall toughness regen would stay about 90%, which would allow you to shrug off melee attacks

[tall torrent]

Iron will on its own doesn’t allow u to tank crusher

[mighty escarp]

you just needed to be at a high enough toughness to allow you to maintain 90%

[crude fiber]

Crusher is all carapace, maulers head, and some armor parts on bulwark and reaper are carapace. Bosses, bulwark and reapers are unyeilding

[verbal burrow]

Just dodge and hit their face with a revved up chainsword, or avoid that scenario entirely by plasma gunning their face

[mighty escarp]

it did, good ol days...then we got uber nerfed lol

[somber axle]

You can still get funny levels of TDR, HP, Toughness and resist for Gunners/Snipers while grabbing good toughness regen talents like Confirmed Kill. There's nothing really stopping you

[verbal burrow]

Chaos captains are flak actually

[tall torrent]

U don’t need a plasma to kill crushers

[mighty escarp]

now pyskers have the better tank talents 😦

[verbal burrow]

I can also accatran it or krak it ye

[slow spade]

No they do not lol

[tall torrent]

And chainsword is one of the worst options on vet vs crushers

[slow spade]

Say that to any psyker lol

[frank monolith]

you can find use with those stamina curios by using the mk6 knife 👀

[crude fiber]

I don't count them

[mighty escarp]

I am a pysker, I use purg, so much toughness regen

[somber axle]

1 HP curio, 2 Toughness curios. 3 HP perks, 2 Gunner Resist perks, 1 Sniper Resist perk, 3 Sprint Efficiency perks (or alternatively whatever else you'd prefer to swap the Sprint Efficiency for)

[verbal burrow]

My right hand is pretty fucked so builds that make me click like I am playing Slayer in VT2 cause considerable pain

[slow spade]

=\= tanky

[somber axle]

You can grab both +25 Toughness talent nodes, Iron Will, Close Quarters Drill and feel pretty immovable

[frank monolith]

rip

[last parcel]

i always skip close order drill because i’m never in coherency

[somber axle]

I made a funny Cadia stands meme build on one of the few times I tried Shout just to feel how unkillable that would feel like and it's kinda funny

[slow spade]

But Confirmed Kill D:

[mighty escarp]

10% regen per soulfire kill + 5% per crit? thats massively high

[verbal burrow]

Y'all have convinced me, I shall readjust my trinkets and toughnessmaxx

[tall torrent]

That’s toughness sustain, not “tank”

[slow spade]

Honestly I'm debating dropping Confirmed Kill for Out For Blood

[slow spade]

Bruh

It feels like you don't play psyker

[mighty escarp]

do people not know how to maintain 90% anymore?

[verbal burrow]

bye block cost reduction, you served me well on Ironbreaker, Foot Knight, Warrior Priest and Handmaiden

[tall torrent]

What 90% are u even talking about, iron will is >75% toughness and iron will on its own doesn’t allow u to tank crusher overhead

[slow spade]

I don't think they know that TDR is multiplicative

[mighty escarp]

Damage taken is based on the % of toughness that is active during the next attack you take, by maintaining 90% you can keep yourself at an area where you can gain 100% with a single kill, it prevents you from taking HP damage through multiple situations.

Basically, you manipulate your toughness regen to keep yourself at that level at all times during big fights so you can 'tank' through gunners

[slow spade]

Oh you meant that

That's just playing normally

[mighty escarp]

yet, people dont do that anymore

[tall torrent]

But like
That’s really just playing normally idk what’s so special about it lol

[mighty escarp]

well, that build you showed earlier cant do that so...

[tall torrent]

What

The surge build?

[mighty escarp]

yeah

[tall torrent]

No it basically runs forever lol

[mighty escarp]

it doesnt maintain enough regen value, you basically will just get swarmed and killed because you cant 'kill' fast enough

[last parcel]

[slow spade]

The fact I can't refute that speaks volumes about the average skill level

[tall torrent]

If ur talking about tanking gunners then it actually just makes u invulnerable to gunners, period

Because u crit so much empathic evasion is always up

[vestal widget]

the gunners aren't shooting you anyway because staff lmb has gigantic suppression

[tall torrent]

If ur talking about maintaining max toughness, mettle + warp kill toughness + quell just keeps on going forever

U don’t even need to manual quell

[mighty escarp]

so you kill one at a time repeatedly until everything is dead while dodging everything keeping your crit up and hope that you dont get hit by a mutant and lose everythign?

[frank monolith]

👀

[tall torrent]

Wdym keeping crit up it’s as simple as pressing F

[mighty escarp]

that didnt answer my question

[tall torrent]

I don’t think you’re understanding anything lol

U don’t even need manual input to dodge ranged attacks on that build

[somber axle]

Psykers have mind controlled Vet chat

Nowhere is safe

[last parcel]

the lex has found you

[mighty escarp]

or...you dont have an answer. I admit, its a silly build, it looks funny, but yeah...it only lasts until someone takes your kills

[frank monolith]

build has 60% crit and when you crit you are consider dodging for range attack for one second

[tall torrent]

U really should try it urself then judge

[slow spade]

The main issue with that lmb spam build is your fingers so get the full auto mod

[mighty escarp]

DIdnt someone above just say it was weak to hordes?

[vestal widget]

that depends on your melee tho

[dry crypt]

thank youu

[mighty escarp]

we did...when Scy came out originally, it worked until you got a zealot or a ogyrn on the team, because if anyone kills your targets and prevents you from chaining crits, you fall apart INSTANTLY

[tall torrent]

Did u not read the patch notes for this most recent update or smth

[mighty escarp]

avoiding my statement doesnt change the fact that having teammates actively hinders that build because it relys so much on chaining crits and people NOT blocking any of your shots

[vestal widget]

people don't block shots any more

[tall torrent]

Please just give it a go urself

[slow spade]

Psy shield 😎

[mighty escarp]

T_T tell that to the ogryn on my colmunus

[tall torrent]

Ogryn doesn’t block shots anymore

[wind ravine]

Whats a good dumpstat for recon lasgun? Im thinking stability?

[tall torrent]

Ur shots go right through

[mighty escarp]

blocks the shit out of my vision

[slow spade]

Collateral

[vestal widget]

collat if you hate people cowering and making you miss the headshot beam

[wind ravine]

I do hate that

[mighty escarp]

I have already, long ago, again, its been tested, this isnt a new build...it was created, scrapped, and forgotten

[slow spade]

The new psyker rework changed it

[vestal widget]

you have scriers melee so you can at least have okay horde clear on psyker no matter what rly

you can also just take a rashad or illisi or something and mow down everything horde-shaped

[tall torrent]

Ignoring the new talents doesn’t help ur case lol

[slow spade]

Its not a meme anymore

[mighty escarp]

have they changed armor hit boxes yet?

[slow spade]

Don't think so

[mighty escarp]

then its still the same

[slow spade]

????

[timid otter]

Wouldnt the build be better with trauma rather then surge

[mighty escarp]

its for LMB spam

[vestal widget]

no because you're lmb spamming and surge has more crit

[slow spade]

Some people use trauma for safety

[tall torrent]

No because electrokinetic has 21% innate crit chance

[slow spade]

But surge is better dps

[timid otter]

Since trauma actually gives AOE, while also supporting LMB spam

[tall torrent]

U just end up getting more surge shots + empathic evasion uptime

[slow spade]

You want to rely on your melee for hordes

[timid otter]

Well that likely makes it an ok build at best.

[tall torrent]

Outside of M21st groaners I’ve not ran into horde clear problem with it

[timid otter]

An interesting one but not a top tier one

[slow spade]

Fair, I've ran exclusively M21st missions recently

Good money and it helps people c:

[mighty escarp]

and my purg can do both while chain staggering and clear hordes in seconds

[tall torrent]

If you’re benchmarking horde clear based on M21st groaners then there aren’t many competitive options

[slow spade]

Yeah I should be less harsh, M21st don't fuck around

[tall torrent]

There’re like 3 weapons that’s actually good at that and everything else is 1 tier below at the minimum

[slow spade]

Indeed 😔

Even power sword falls short these days

Though that's due to the fucking bug

[sullen scarab]

there's a bug on power sword?

[mighty escarp]

ooo PS has a bug now?

[sullen scarab]

Is it the activation?

[tall torrent]

Rashad, HS9 and Karsolas
Everything else 1 tier below

[sullen scarab]

I feel like the activation keeps getting knocked out

[slow spade]

Energizing doesn't refresh duration + turns off when hit/staggered

[sullen scarab]

no wonder

[slow spade]

Makes it VERY weak to pressure

[sullen scarab]

I kept getting fucked up in fights

[mighty escarp]

ah, thats normal...

[slow spade]

No it isn't

[tall torrent]

Was not a thing before this update

[vestal widget]

it loses the activation if you stop the attack chain for whatever reason

[tall torrent]

It’s also on chain weapons

[slow spade]

As someone that used psword since release, it is NOT normal

[mighty escarp]

I thought bug as in something that broke it completely

[tall torrent]

If u power up, swing and get hit, ur chain-rev is gone

same goes for power sword

If u power up, swing & get hit, ur energized state is gone

[slow spade]

Now it does

[mighty escarp]

dont get hit then

[slow spade]

It didn't before

[trim steppe]

Curious why the mk9 overtakes the mk6 HS

[tall torrent]

Horizontal heavy swings

[sullen scarab]

Also I was trying out the chainsword for horde clear but it seems to have problems with bruisers?

Not sure if I"m doing something wrong lol

[tall torrent]

That’s most melee weapons

[sullen scarab]

3 heavies normal to kill bruisers?

[tall torrent]

If ur horde clear benchmark is Rashad/Karsolas then everything else is worse pretty much

[sullen scarab]

true lmao

I was trying to find a weapon that does well with the bolter that doesn't require Desperado

[mighty escarp]

I use the PS3 still, dont have real issues with it, just cleave all day long, stagger crushers, just easy horde clear

[vestal widget]

does your rashad require desperado for bruiser 1s

[sullen scarab]

yeah i can't one shot bruisers on my rashad for bolter build

since I don't have all the melee damage perks

[trim steppe]

I dont think it does if you take flak

[sullen scarab]

i'll try out the heavy sword lol

heavy sword 9 seems to do really well even without me taking the desperado and melee stuff down the right side

[verbal burrow]

Let's see how this goes then

[sullen scarab]

might go well with bolter!

[somber axle]

Oh! Toughness Regen isn't a good pick for curio perks

It exclusively improves coherency regen, nothing else

It doesn't improve toughness gain from talents or kills

[verbal burrow]

Oh? D:

[somber axle]

It has some use for Ogryns afaik but it's not helpful on Vet

[verbal burrow]

Well, I am going to try it and if it reveals itself to be mid af I will be back

Doesn't mean I think you're wrong, I just like empiricism

[somber axle]

That's fair

[trim steppe]

With unarmored and flak on a perfect Rashad, you can 1-shot both bruisers with HT stacks, with NO talent points

[somber axle]

Gotta experiment!

Usually Confirmed Kill or Out for Blood are enough for toughness regen

If you want some extra toughness regen there's always Voice of Command + Duty and Honour, and/or Focus Target + Target Down

[terse idol]

You need unarmoured still

Oh dredge brusiers

[terse idol]

Issue being you are sacrificing a 1 or 2 shot on the crusher

Or well I mean

Without carapace your crusher kill increases by 1 or 2 more hits

[trim steppe]

Just giving the data. They said they wanted good horde clear with a bolter build that doesn't take the melee damage talents

[terse idol]

Makes maulers harder too I'd argue

[candid agate]

how should i be fighing ragers?
whenever i fight them it feels like i cant retaliate and i cant attack them after their combos

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-shoot-harrison-ford-nope-gif-11523430

[candid agate]

i try to do that but they ignore my dodges while i shoot them upclose lol

[verbal burrow]

Alright, second draft:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d26eeb3-2720-4ed0-92d4-bfc75f860086/shouty-squad-leader-2

[teal abyss]

Devils claw and parry their ass

[verbal burrow]

I now have every available source of toughness, except ditching the wounds on my trinkets for more toughness

I'd consider the one that gives me toughness regen on ranged weak spot hit but I don't have the electronic pixies telling me where the good kills are with the squad leader ability slotted

[candid agate]

knife?

which is better kill zone or opening salvo?

[topaz lance]

If you play above Malice, Opening Salvo

[candid agate]

cheers

[vestal widget]

3x wounds seems excessive; I would probably take toughness nor hp instead of more wounds. you don't have any stamina regen delay nodes so I would consider taking 3x stamina regen reductin on curio perks.

[verbal burrow]

I have ridiculously bad luck tbh

Yesterday I had a great match with 3 ogryns but somehow someone still managed to explode a barrel with a stray melee attack and send me off the bridge. I am potentially a Lamenters chapter serf without knowing it

[vestal widget]

wounds won't save you from that. barrels are a proud tradition though. i failed the 10 auric missions without down the first time by barreling myself

mostly I feel it is unlikely that you will get downed 4+ times and get picked up that you will get value from more than 1 wound curio more than you would get from being more tanky per life.

[last parcel]

if you're consistently going down 4 times between medicae stations (which is the only situation where having 5 wounds matters), that's not bad luck

[last parcel]

and wounds won't save you from barrels

[vestal widget]

if you want giga hp regen, I would take out for blood as well as confirmed kill. it gives 5% toughness regen on melee and ranged kills

i'd probably drop covering fire and longshot to afford that.

[verbal burrow]

Oh it's not consistently, but weird shit happens in quickplay and I've become paranoid as fuck

There will be 3 teammates in between me and the enemy and I will see a squad of shotgunners rushing past everyone just to go for me

[vestal widget]

redirect fire is a better node than focused fire. the description is confusingly written but redirect fire is basically a very easy to maintain 7.5% damage buff

while focused fire has extremely poor uptime

[tall torrent]

I’d go smth like shock maul for Boltgun

[vestal widget]

redirect fire is refreshed whenever you kill a tagged target. if number of tags on target who just died than the number currenlty on your buff, it overwrites with the higher value

[tall torrent]

Chainsword / shock maul / heavy sword tbh

DC sword even

[verbal burrow]

Wouldn't hitting a boss or critical target with 8 stacks instead of 5 just be more gooderer?

[verbal burrow]

Hang on let me contemplate this

[tall torrent]

That’s only if u purposefully not tag things to save ur stacks to tag boss

[vestal widget]

if i'm fighting 10 elites i'm tagging them as i switch target so they get ~2 tags each

the only time i get 8 tags is right at the start of a fight

or if i didn't have time to tag anything or am saving tags

[verbal burrow]

Yeah but the main issue I take with Redirect Fire is "within coherency" and the randoms I get aren't smart enough for that

[tall torrent]

They need to be in coherency with u, u don’t have to be in coherency with them

[vestal widget]

it's still a 7.5% damage buff for yourself

[tall torrent]

That 7.5% damage bonus often helps ur own breakpoints

[sullen scarab]

That's a pretty good idea, the shock maul seems to do pretty good regardless of what damage perks I take

[vestal widget]

it def helps plasma breakpoints on some of my builds

[thorny gorge]

does collateral matter for recon las?

[verbal burrow]

Man asking the real questions

[thorny gorge]

should i get?

[last parcel]

yes

[vestal widget]

i think @somber axle says on exestance builds maxed collat can stagger ragers but generally it means stuff cowers while you're trying to beam it in the head

[thorny gorge]

does the damage carry through or is it just a stagger?

[thorny gorge]

ah ok

[verbal burrow]

80% damage and 80% ammo on an accatran already seems pretty cracked but try to also get 80 collateral as stunlocking is pretty neat

[last parcel]

just stagger and suppression

[thorny gorge]

hes also selling this lmao

[vestal widget]

good knife, these are pretty common to see now, i think they tweaked brunt so he generates perfectly dumped weapons on some stat a lot

[tall torrent]

It helps plasma just generally

[thorny gorge]

ive also been getting good weapons as mission rewards

the emps has been feeling nice

[verbal burrow]

don't underestimate suppression btw, sometimes you'll see entire hordes cower in fear because they just heard an accatran make a noise that sounds like a sanctified MG-42

[vestal widget]

longshot is also not a very good value skill point damage wise (as @tall torrent made aware to me)

plasma doesn't get suppressed so change determined to precision strikes.

[thorny gorge]

im running a crit build for it so i melt through hordes either way

[verbal burrow]

Speaking of which, I just noticed that they changed the Mark numbers on all of the Accatrans. Since I have multiple, I can now no longer figure out which one is the one with max fire rate, and which one is the one with max damage per shot. What is the max fire rate one called now?

[last parcel]

XII

[somber axle]

Plasma has built in suppression immunity iirc so you don't need Determined. Precision Strikes would be the better node to take on the way down left tree to Superiority Complex. 8 stack Focus Target is eh. Focus Target automatically regens to 2 stacks if you kill the pinged target within a second or two of pinging. Redirect Fire will take max stacks to 7.5% and will refresh that 7.5% damage buff on every ping kill. With 2 stacks Focus Target and Redirect Fire you get a consistent 8% + 7.5% = 15.5% damage buff vs pinged targets which helps consistently hit breakpoints. Covering Fire also only gives toughness to allies, not to yourself. It's a fun support option but will not directly help your survivability. Inspiring Presence isn't worth the talent point for how little benefit it provides afaik. Target Down would be a much more consistent and significant impact with ping target kills and you could swap the point pretty easy

[tall torrent]

I play this for plasma

[verbal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-26231953

[thorny gorge]

this one

[vestal widget]

oh yeah don't take inspiring presence either. the toughness replenishment doesn't work how you think

[verbal burrow]

So the mark XII Accatran is the new name for the one that used to have 16 shots per second?

Okay I am going to try to focus my fever-addled mind on the comments in this channel, and then roll version 3 of this build

[vestal widget]

actually, should just link this https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3094038976

good explainer of what talents actually do

[faint beacon]

If you check pins also there’s the updated veteran guide that just also explains everything

[somber axle]

I can help with this one too!

Recon Mk VId = Recon Mk XII = Fastest Firing variant with large mag size

Recon Mk II = Recon Mk VIc = Moderate Fire speed and best ammo efficiency

Recon Mk VIIa = Recon Mk XIV = Cleave per shot

[verbal burrow]

So it only affects the base regen? But if my goal is to spread as much toughness to a squad that stays close together, is that not still more toughness than not taking the node?

[somber axle]

I have a screenshot saved of all the name changes here if you ever need to consult them

[vestal widget]

the base regen is disabled in a lot of situations (like when you are actively targeted by melee enemies; i forget the exact conditions)

[verbal burrow]

Okay so the shots-per-second boi is now named XII and the damage-per-shot boi is now named XIV

[somber axle]

Yeah

[last parcel]

while yes it's better than literally nothing, the point is that there's opportunity cost in the talent tree. the increased regen is miniscule and the point could be better spent elsewhere

[vestal widget]

but basically it doesn't work if your team is actively engaged in melee combat; toughness regen on your curios is also kind of weak for the same reason.

you would probably funnel your team more toughness by having target down if you play high difficulties

[verbal burrow]

Does anyone know why they changed the names on the weapons? ;-;

[vestal widget]

because target down gives you ~10% toughness per elite/special death

to targets in coherency

[verbal burrow]

Aye I am going to do another draft with the information here, brb

[vestal widget]

out for blood gives you +5% toughness per melee or ranged kill so if you are doing a born leader thing with a strong hordeclear wep that will also force feed your team more toughness

[somber axle]

If you want to shoot a lasgun into a Crusher and burn a hole through their forehead grab the Recon Mk XII then pick up Shock Trooper, Rending Strikes and Onslaught. Get Reciprocity or Headhunter for crit chance. The gun will burn through everything

[vestal widget]

if you really want to toughnessmax and rp as a squad leader you can also put gloryhunter on the plasma to just shovel toughness into them

[somber axle]

Tinfoil hat says Games Workshop noticed the naming schemes and prodded Fatshark to change them for more lore accurate things but then there's confusing things like the Rashad Mk II Combat Axe being renamed to the Rashad Mk III Combat Axe that seem very bizarre

So who knows?

[tall torrent]

The emperor willed it

Or tzeentch

Who knows

[verbal burrow]

gimme a sec to read all of the feedback and roll version 3

[somber axle]

The main thing I noticed was the Recon Mk II being renamed to the Recon Mk VIc which feels like it's meant to be a spin on the Recon Mk IVc which is a semi-automatic Elysian Accatran Lasgun

[candid agate]

which enemies are unyielding enemies

[somber axle]

And the Recon Mk II/Recon Mk VIc matches best with the Elysian Drop Trooper cosmetic set

[tall torrent]

Bulwark, reaper, daemonhost, plague ogryn, beast of nurgle, chaos spawn

[verbal burrow]

Demonhosts, bosses, and like that one captain guy you always get sent to kill in that police station breaks the norm by being flak

[lavish token]

Bosses, reapers and bulwarks

[tall torrent]

Captains aren’t unyielding

[verbal burrow]

Hence why "breaks the norm by being flak"

[candid agate]

so is it worth it to take it over maniac?

with flak

[somber axle]

Also important to note that the Bulwarks and Reapers count as Unyielding on the exposed parts of their body. Other parts will count as Flak like the legs/arms or where ever you see metal

[tall torrent]

Depends on weapon, usually no

[verbal burrow]

If I am building a weapon specifically to go after bosses and this game's version of rat ogres, I do + unyielding damage and + flak damage, in any case

[candid agate]

so for the single shot headhunter autogun?

[tall torrent]

Flak + unarmored

[verbal burrow]

depends, do you want to build it for hunting bosses? Seems odd? Could just throw a krak grenade if you really felt like it

[candid agate]

ah does unarmored apply to ragers as well as maniac?

or is it just good in general

[verbal burrow]

A lot of enemies just wear flak

Not just Captains, but like, the dudes with the welding mask and the chainaxe have Flak on every part of their body except the head

[tall torrent]

No because that gun wants to 1 tap Dreg gunners

It all comes down to which perks help which breakpoints

[candid agate]

oh well mine already does so looks like im good

i think at least

[verbal burrow]

I should be scrolling up to absorb feedback tho, brb

[verbal burrow]

In response to the statements on Covering Fire, I want to help the homies tho. Shooting one plasma round through a bunch of mobs that are hugging a teammate has saved lives before

[somber axle]

It is a very good support tool yeah! That and Field Improv are some of the best Vet team support tools in the tree

[tall torrent]

It’s not really worth

[somber axle]

Voice of Command is probably the strongest team survivability tool

[tall torrent]

It’s competing against better nodes and even for team support there’re just better options

[somber axle]

Also worth noting that Target Down provides the toughness and stamina regen coherency wide to you and the squad

so any allies near you get the 5% toughness and 5% stamina per Focus Target stack on pinged target kill

[verbal burrow]

Yeah Target Down is probably better 😐

but why not both

[somber axle]

Gloryhunter and Born Leader combo for some funny team toughness regen

idk the new Plasma blessings but before Unlocked and Loaded update you could run Gloryhunter + Gets Hot on Plasma as your blessings and still be fine hitting all the important breakpoints

If you combo that and Target Down your team will be extra safe

[tall torrent]

Depends on what weapons ur using but usually veteran wants to spec into damage breakpoints for their weapons

[verbal burrow]

I was considering Gloryhunter on the plasma yeah as it is another source of Toughness, but Gets Hot + Rising Heat seems dope

And I'm running bleed frag for horde clear over Krak, so I need something that can pour a lot of damage into a boss

[tall torrent]

That’s not really plasma’s job

[verbal burrow]

What do you deem plasma's job is?

[somber axle]

I really want to try Gets Hot + Focused Cooling to see how many extra shots you can squeeze in with lucky crits before heat cap

[verbal burrow]

That also sounds so lit

[tall torrent]

Remove specialists & ranged elites

Help with melee elite waves until they inevitably get close

[verbal burrow]

See I just thought it removed everything because whatever I left click at goes away

which I found very funny

[tall torrent]

It’s also flat out the hardest weapon to perfect roll in the game

Which is just unfortunate

[somber axle]

Doesn't charge rate give negligible bonus above 60%

I thought that was the dump stat

[verbal burrow]

I am pretty happy with mine

[somber axle]

since like it barely affects uncharged shots

and no one really uses charged shots other than for memes

[tall torrent]

No it directly impacts ur firerate

[tall torrent]

This is missing breakpoints unfortunately

[verbal burrow]

Thing is that keeping the heat at as close to 100% is sort of what enables Rising Heat + gets hot

[tall torrent]

Stopping power too low