veteran-class

[lucid radish]

Hip fire bolter rifle and hold it

[tribal pelican]

so does charge speed effect rate of fire when spray and praying

[tall torrent]

yes

[still flare]

I didn't realize the spread on bolter was buffed too

[spark helm]

How's something like this?

[tribal pelican]

interesting do you mind explaining why

[still flare]

But it's nice to use now even hip fire

[spark helm]

Specifically the blessings. I don't use these guns.

[tall torrent]

69% thermal resist gives u 8 continuous shots, above doesn't change anything
so that leaves u 71% remaining for charge rate, and the rest should be maxed

[pallid mango]

Well, that's what i'm arguing. Is "50% crit per second of aiming" really worth more than just unloading a full mag?

[tribal pelican]

excellent well i got 1.2mil to burn at brunts so we shal see

[lucid radish]

Conserving ammo

[pallid mango]

Any of the enemies i HAVE to aim at are already in the "dies if hit" range

[tall torrent]

it's unironically the hardest weapon to roll perfect in this game rn

[pallid mango]

And any enemies I need the extra damage to kill faster, are going to swarm me, so i have to drop their health faster

[tall torrent]

because half the rolls are in 4x80+60 distribution

[grand perch]

please dont go around autofiiring the bolter everywhere

[lucid radish]

Conserving ammo vs DIE NOW

[tribal pelican]

I want bolt pistol to be good so bad but i just cannot make it work im getting my shit rocked in normal damnation and it feels bad man

[tall torrent]

grenadier build

[tribal pelican]

please enlighten me further oh hammer man of wisdom

[tall torrent]

lethal proximity buffs frag grenade blast radius by 25%
this stacks on top of grenade tinkerer's +25% for up to 15m blast radius
build a full grenade build, equip boltpistol, build for its 1 tap breakpoints, done

[tribal pelican]

oooooo that sounds kinda fun do we know if this is a big thats gonna get patched?

*bug

[hollow ibex]

Wait those buff bolt pistol lol

[tall torrent]

not a bug

so far

[grand perch]

blessing states it raises explosion radius by 25%, like, generally

[tall torrent]

it's basically the strongest boltpistol build rn

[grand perch]

seems working as intended

[tall torrent]

yea

[lucid radish]

If anything, The Mk IV dueling Sword is gonna get nerfed

[pseudo fiber]

I mean they'd have to fix a lot of grenade and blessing interactions so let's say it's intentional and hadron... fiddled with our grenades before the mission yay

[tall torrent]

this one is almost definitely intentional

most things don't buff the grenade blast itself

[tribal pelican]

would you take twined blast or superiority complex for this im at a impass in building this out

[lucid radish]

Any one tried the combat shotties?

[tall torrent]

twinned blast

[balmy dune]

Woah

What else do you take on top of lethal proximity?

[grand perch]

mine looks l.ike this, ive gone full ham with twinned blast + demo stockpile + field improvisation and demo team further down

i just wanna spam nades its so fun

[pseudo fiber]

I gotta get me one of those.

[wind schooner]

For a suppression braced graia would deathspitter or fire frenzy be better

[tall torrent]

maniac + elite/unarmored (take elite if u take superiority complex, this is for dreg gunner 1hs)
lethal proximity + run&gun (-30% hipfire spread, removes sprint-to-fire delay, +15 C.dmg when sprinting)

I will also say

if u really want to use frag grenades as a core part of ur kit

One Motion is pretty good

noticeably boosts frag grenade's throw speed

doesn't seem to do much for krak

[pseudo fiber]

I'm gonna give this a try tomorrow

This sounds funny as hell

[tall torrent]

With one motion: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1289711852636471336/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.09.28_-_18.07.50.03.mp4?ex=66f9d143&is=66f87fc3&hm=25b5d6d7dc32d163830937744b47a47c28c2f4e8b3ea94246d8d53dd6af1578f&

[pseudo fiber]

Any melee recommendations?

[tall torrent]

without: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1289711854125453366/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.09.28_-_18.08.07.04.mp4?ex=66f9d143&is=66f87fc3&hm=ef001a638c3067680424a1f9c7226c0138fb979d9b026012d02fd1ec47bd4dd7&

[balmy dune]

holy canoli that AOE

[tall torrent]

power sword 6 or duelling sword 4

[pseudo fiber]

DS4 it is

[tall torrent]

the difference in throw speed is noticeable at least for me

[pseudo fiber]

I've have a bolt pistol build kinda sitting there but I realised it was just one of my other builds but instead of (mercy killer) knife and revolver it was shockmaul and bolt pistol

So now I can make it something unique

Thank you as always path you the goat

[scenic hull]

Aite Vets. I am pleased with ma gun. What blessings do you recomend??

[tall torrent]

headhunter + ghost

[scenic hull]

Oh so not Deadly accurate? Seems kinda fat?

[tall torrent]

ghost is generally more valuable

[scenic hull]

Can blessings be switched more than once?

[tall torrent]

yes

[scenic hull]

Awesome!

[grand perch]

ive gone with deadly accurate too, just because of personal preference

[scenic hull]

What about perks?

[lucid radish]

If you’re using precision weapons, then I would just use determined [Passive Suppression Immunity]

[scenic hull]

What yall think about weak spot dmg vs Crit% or and Crit Dmg perks?

[lucid radish]

I love them

Oh compromise

Idk then

[scenic hull]

I mean ye but i can only have 2 perks. So either Crit % + Crit dmg. // Crit % + Weak spot dmg // Crit dmg + Weak spot dmg

[trim steppe]

Weak spot damage and crit hit damage as weapon perks are calculated funny so they provide very little benefit

[supple plover]

Hey so I am trying to make a class set specific for simulating a death korps kriegsman if anyone has made one can you enlighten me on what peek traits you went with?

[lucid radish]

I’d just use Flak and Carapace/Manic

[trim steppe]

at least compared to the striaght +type% damage

+crit chance is good on some builds, but not the crit hit damage

[scenic hull]

Ah alright so better to pick an enemy type id like more dmg vs.
Can you re bless the perks infinately to?

[trim steppe]

yeah everything can be changed as much as you want now

[scenic hull]

Such a good design choice. W devs

[feral stratus]

Question, when were the Savlar Quem-safe fatiges avalible in the shop?

[trim steppe]

for infantry lasgun I'd just go the classic +flak and +maniac

[lucid radish]

Pray

All 4 Chaos gods, pray to them

[tall torrent]

weakspot is a maybe
crit dmg never

[trim steppe]

Alright I've never used a shock maul, how do I build one of these things?

[fleet garden]

why does darktide crash so often upon alt tabbing now

holy shit its bad

[grand perch]

though dont if you use exec stance anyway. or helbores. or laspistols. or plasma. or shotguns...

[tribal pelican]

what are people feeling about recon laz these days?

what mk and what blessings

[lucid radish]

It’s a laser famas, it’s decent IMO

[tribal pelican]

its more then decent its kinda semi meta I thought like not as stupid good as autogun but like one of the better picks

[still flare]

How to deal with armor tho? Can you stack enough rending on a stance build?

Recon is cool, I'd love to make it work

[potent canyon]

This recon build with no keystone slaps

Right side brittleness means it deals with armor on its own

Left side for ammo conservation

[gilded wraith]

Anyone have a link to the bolt pistol grenader build?

[tribal pelican]

I honestly feel like shocktrooper is a trap I'v never once felt like I was jonzing for ammo with recon laz

[visual remnant]

@tall torrent path im sorrgy but i need 2 bug u again

about vet blessings

is hot shot like any good for helbore or is it just a meme

[blazing notch]

If I were to pick one or the other, Deathspitter or Dumdum? Gun is a Recon Lasgun.

[tribal pelican]

also did they change ether dumdum or Infernus becuse i thought dumdum had better ttk in almsot all situations

[visual remnant]

dumdum

[potent canyon]

Infernus is for style points

[visual remnant]

yah dd and infernus

good for melting bosses

[torpid comet]

is this a good roll?

[visual remnant]

yah

therm resis isn't that high but it's close to god roll to not be negligible

[torpid comet]

first one i bought lol

or rolled

[tall torrent]

it's a meme
but it gives all of ur weakspot hits 50% more cleave (including melee weapon's)
do with that info what u will

[visual remnant]

lmfao what

[tall torrent]

no, u need 69%+ thermal resist

[visual remnant]

what r the good blessing for the hb

and which of bores would u use

[tall torrent]

surgical + whatever

[visual remnant]

i havent used the hbs in a bajillion years

[tall torrent]

mk V

[visual remnant]

which one is that

i ii or iii

[tall torrent]

fast firing

[visual remnant]

the ii ?

[tall torrent]

I already switched to the new marks' names

[visual remnant]

is it blue

[tribal pelican]

are we still talking recon laz?

[tall torrent]

old mk2

[visual remnant]

kk

thanks

[tall torrent]

helbore

[tribal pelican]

ah

SO close

[torpid comet]

bruhh

[frail skiff]

Okay, can someone explain to me exactly what ranged finesse strength is?

[torpid comet]

im confused on that too

[last parcel]

there's an explanation on page 2 3 of the guide in the ms word link from the latest pinned message

[torpid comet]

i also would like to know

[sleek garden]

pretty sure finesse is crit damage/weakspot damage and armor penetration

you want it high

[frail skiff]

So would the Marksman keystone be overkill on the MK IV Helbore?

[torpid comet]

yeah according to google finess is crit damage

[sleek garden]

i am not sure actually

the bonus reload speed is still nice to hve

[frail skiff]

Cause if I tool my build just right I can 1 shot a crusher with a crit headshot with exe stance

[sleek garden]

it helps me reach a 1 shot kill on scab gunners from a certain distance with my kantrael blue lasgun

[last parcel]

imo yes. most breakpoints you're missing can be hit with focus target + redirect fire

[sleek garden]

perhaps take it with the modifier that adds rending or the one that adds stacks when you stand still

[last parcel]

including crusher if you just activated exe

[frail skiff]

I see

[sleek garden]

except focus fire isnt active all the time like marksmans focus

where you just have to click heads

which shouldnt be hard to do with a helbore

[last parcel]

are you not pinging enemies

[frail skiff]

I generally ping what I'm shooting at

[sleek garden]

i am but im not adding 5 stacks every time

[hollow turtle]

What's the dump stat for heavy laspistol?

[last parcel]

you only need 2 if any in most casees

and you have 2 if you kill someting right within a second of marking it (instead of just 1)

[last parcel]

there's a pinned message with a ms word link to an updated vet guide that includes blessings and dump stats for all weapons

[frail skiff]

Hmm

[dapper agate]

Best plasma blessings now? Blaze Away and Rising Heat? Although Gets Hot still seems pretty good.

[frail skiff]

On one hand, using Marksman's focus could be seen as the selfish option while using Focus fire would help the team more

[last parcel]

since both let you hit breakpoints, the advantage of MF becomes the reload speed. it's also not just about selfishness, since you're also trading the reliability and ease of use from FT
whenever you fight a horde, you'll end up dropping stacks unless you manage to whip out your helbore for a cheeky headshot every 6 seconds or unless you crabwalk while hordeclearing. if you're relying on MF for breakpoints, it's gonna be sketchy if the crushers show up in the middle of that

[frail skiff]

Okay, you make a fair point

[tall torrent]

stability

[grim bane]

Does "Gets Hot!" not function right now? seems like im never critting in the meat grinder with it

[frail skiff]

With that in mind, would I still meet key breakpoints if I took infiltrate over Exe stance so I can use it to get out of trouble or to reposition or go for key targets mid horde?

[rare prawn]

what mark to take on the recon lasgun ?

[sour harness]

The MK XII (formerly the ViD) is my beloved

[rare prawn]

awesome, thanks

weird how they changed the name

[sour harness]

Flak/Crit chance + DumDum/Deathspitter = laser spray fun

[last parcel]

which ones do you mean by key breakpoints? because +maniac covers oneshots for flamers so you have everything besides ragers, maulers, mutants, and ogryns (iirc). if you mean the crusher oneshot with +carapace, you'll need to be able to maintain high MF stacks and also take infiltrate's surpise attack

[rare prawn]

i see so it would be different playstyle than headhunter/infernus

[sour harness]

w/ all the appropriate talents of course... (brittleness/rending/free ammo on crit etc)

[wet ether]

las recon did fat shark buff it?

[rare prawn]

technically yes, because now you can get a perfect one where in the past it was close to impossible

[sour harness]

The Vid Recon has been in a great state since even patch 19

ok guys super important question - where can i see which Vet personality has which voice lines? I'm trying to re-roll my personality to get my preferred lines... ^^

[last parcel]

there's a video on yt with all the personality voicelines for ability use

[sour harness]

Thanks looking for it right now

[wet ether]

las recon dump stat?

[sour harness]

I did mobility on mine

[frail skiff]

Hmm

[umbral scaffold]

not a single soul in party finder ? lmfaoo

[tribal pelican]

how do we feel about bolter after update?

[umbral scaffold]

i hope they didnt waste too much time in that feature

[umbral scaffold]

its great

[frail skiff]

Question: How good are smoke grenades?

[umbral scaffold]

niche

[frail skiff]

I remember watching a video that told everything that they did, but I can't find it

[last parcel]

i like them. they're like psyker bubble
there is also a section in the pinned guide that explains smokes. click on the smoke icon in the talent tree pic and it'll jump down

[tribal pelican]

any build recommendations?

[frail skiff]

Do you think it would be applicable in a helbore sniper build since ammo efficency is still very high?

Instead of getting Survivalist

[last parcel]

yeah, that'd be fine. since you mentioned the crusher oneshot thing though, going smokes means you'll miss out on the +5% ranged damage travel node above surv which could make it harder to hit that BP

[frail skiff]

I'm thinking of dropping crusher 1 shot and just be general anti-special/elite

[last parcel]

in that case, yeah you'll be fine

[frank basin]

Plasma gun is my anti tank specialist

The bellow like helbore to lasinfantry are anti personal

Helbore is middle ground I treat them

[rare prawn]

can I see your talent tree for your recon lasgun build ?

[frail skiff]

Is Overwatch worth it for the 2 charges, but 60 second CD?

TA still takes some burden off

[sour harness]

those are the important slots, the rest is your preference

[tribal pelican]

do we want onslought with bolter? does not seem like we need it

[rare prawn]

thanks

[smoky sparrow]

onslaught with bolter is overkill

[flint trellis]

Do you guys know which of the three recon lasguns is considered the best right now?

[wet ether]

shocktrooper and head hunter they still go well together?

[hearty panther]

whatever the 6d is called now

[last parcel]

XII

[tribal pelican]

pulled this out my ass for giving bolter a shot any opinions?

[last parcel]

yes
but for recons, if you're good at maintaining reciprocity stacks then headhunter loses a lot of value

[lucid radish]

It forces rangers in melee, neat until a crusher slow walks out of the smoke

[tribal pelican]

reciprocity?

[last parcel]

i'd swap close order drill for out of blood. you need toughness regen outside of just relying on voc
other than that yeah it'll work. idk if rending strikes is better than bring it down but it shouldn't matter.
i personally skip tactical reload because i'm a monkey and always magdump but it's good if you're not like that

[smoky sparrow]

5% crit on dodge talent

[last parcel]

talent that gives +crit chance on dodge

[smoky sparrow]

goes insane with knives too

[tribal pelican]

noted ill swap that, as for rending i dont have a god roll bolter to test for break points with as of yet so just went with that since the bolter demolishes mualers and what not anywhooo

I know this isn't a surprise to anyone but having the bolter actually hit whatever your iron sight is over makes it feel so much better lol

and with the weapon swap node it doesn't feel like your charecter is unpacking from a long vacation ever time to pull the damn thing out

[terse shell]

puncture/shattering impact vs puncture/pinning fire vs pin/shatter which is better on bolt

[last parcel]

almost makes me feel like a professional soldier and not a teenage conscript

[tall torrent]

version 3.0 (WIP)

[iron marten]

Mmmm the presentation is pristine

[tribal pelican]

I understand from a lore perspective that they wanted it to feel like this inhuman contraption not meant to be wielded by puny unmodified human arms but ugh it was baaaad

[slow sky]

woe, i have come to ask a question you have probably heard 30 billion times since the update
but on a melee focused vet build, with all those finesse/crit nodes at the bottom right (and that weakspot one)
would thrust precog or uncanny precog be more ideal

on duelling

ive tested both but i cannot make a decision

[last parcel]

mmm crispy
i'd personally want to keep the >=51 dump stat breakpoints though (assuming it's a change and not just part of the wip). helps the broke ass varlets know if they need to go all the way to 500

[blazing notch]

Do you plan to be using it on trash hordes, or want it to be specced more toward big guy damage?

Worth noting that after using Uncanny, I am a huge fan of it, but man Thrust does feel good too

[slow sky]

exactly what i mean
they both feel good
but i have to choose, cuz precog is hard locked youre not getting me to change that lmao

[blazing notch]

Lol

[slow sky]

im basically copying my knife db build with this, so any larger horde is a non issue as i can just db manstop them

[tribal pelican]

this boy built diffrent shmuck is still standing

[blazing notch]

I would say Uncanny for me, more uptime

Thrust is good but really forces you to constantly sit there and charge heavy attacks to get usefulness

But just keep hitting something in the weak spot and you're doing a bunch of Rending

[slow sky]

ive been abusing ds4 on zealot for the last few days

youd be surprised how often you get 1-2 stacks of thrust by accident

[blazing notch]

Yeah thats what I liked about it on my Rashad lol

[slow sky]

just by holding it a bit longer as you move to what youre about to stab

[smoky sparrow]

of those, puncture/pinning fire

[blazing notch]

You accidentally get a power boost, great for 1v1ing a Crusher or a few Maulers

[smoky sparrow]

so what are new blessings are yall running on plasma?

[umbral scaffold]

does marksman retriggers everytime ex stance gets renewd ? question ?

opr is it just on activation

like manual

[slow sky]

yeah i think the same exact reason why uncanny is a lock on melee knife applies to duelling swords
that being that the weakpoint damage bonuses that vet gets REALLY shine through way more at a full 1 adm

[terse shell]

what I've seen for boltgun so far

pin/shatter is generally better than puncture for everything but bosses

[last parcel]

on manual activation

[umbral scaffold]

hm

well it seemed on my end to make the same amount of damage

idk

liek here on activation 2040 to the head of a crusher

1700 ? ah yeah

yeah thatd give 340 more for 20%

hm i might not use that then i guess

bleed stacks seem to stop always before an enemy has no health left i guess its made on purpose so theres no 1 hit kills ?

kinda anoying !

whats evn the point of having bleed perks on vet :p

[junior needle]

mercy killer

Bleed should kill

[umbral scaffold]

ough i might pick back p shovel

[junior needle]

btw

If it's not you just barely didn't or there's a bug

[umbral scaffold]

actually never mind going back to my chainsword

LOL wait why does one of the chainsword not have sound when i rev it

think it might be because i changed marks in the psykanium maybe ? weird bug tbh

[last parcel]

yeah probably that

[umbral scaffold]

actually never mind didnt switch it and it stopped working

on its owm

seems tto be fixed when you switch weapons

[frail skiff]

@last parcel Thanks for the advice, one last thing. What would be the overall best weapon to pair with the helbore in your opinion?

[junior needle]

Something that clears chaffe well because helbores are armor agnostic

[last parcel]

as long as it deals with hordes it's up to preference. I like shock maul/chainsword/mk I shovel since those don't require much melee investment. i don't like psword but that's a personal thing

[frail skiff]

I haven't used the shock maul yet

[last parcel]

i played a lot of the one shot crusher meme build so my favorites are biased towards low melee talent investment

[quartz leaf]

What are our best melee horde clear options noe

What is dump stat on shock maul?

[umbral scaffold]

wouldnt it be funny if when we shot the pox gas bomber that blew up his grenade

[hollow turtle]

hate that guy

i wish

[tame lodge]

Hmmm today I will play precision weapons
The absolute Tzeentchian hit reg

[quartz leaf]

??

Also which blessing?

[idle pecan]

shock maul stats dont rlly matter tbh

its more of a CC weapon

[stable socket]

if you can hit the one-shot bruiser breakpoint (now easier to reach since you can get 80 in all the damage stats plus bm4 and flak/unarmored lv4), brutal momentum rashad is probably one of the fastest horde clear weapons

or chainsword with one of the cleave blessings?

[oblique totem]

Anyone wanna kill heretics with me?

[frail skiff]

Which weapon is Rashad again?

[last parcel]

combat axe

mk III i think, used to be mk II

[frail skiff]

Ah

[blazing notch]

i kinda don't like the recon lasgun lol

What do yall run to make this thing work?

[frail skiff]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9bcd40b8-2436-4650-86f7-66476ddd4e93/shadowstrike-veteran-shredder-frag-grenade-infiltrate-no-keystone-auric-ready

I've had stellar results on Auric with that build

[stable socket]

i think you want as much crit as you can get, plus the talent node that lets crits not consume ammo, plus the node that stacks brittleness on attacks because the recon shoots so fast

you can kill like 10 crushers or something crazy like that in one clip

[frail skiff]

It's really good

Over 1k ammo

[junior needle]

That's because it does low damage per shot

Shocktrooper is the real workhorse

[frail skiff]

Yeah

I rarely go below 50% ammo the whole mission

[junior needle]

Stack crit and rending with shocktrooper, reciprocity is apparently fixed now too

[patent slate]

are the hellbore lasguns still good?

[frail skiff]

They're good for when you want to delete something on the spot that isn't a crusher

[patent slate]

so pretty much every weapon

[frail skiff]

I think I just won the lottery on combat axes. I just need to level up combat axe mastry lol

[patent slate]

even plasma gun takes a charged up shot crit to kill a crusher

[stable socket]

i think revolver, dueling sword and maybe rashad? can 1shs a crusher on crit but you do need some amount of buff stacking

(pretty sure the folding shovels - both vet and ogryn - as well as pickaxes can also 1shs a crusher without needing crits, probably thunder hammer and knife as well)

[tame lodge]

Rip Ogryn fold shovel killing 15 crushers at once

[torpid sundial]

THE QOL IS TOO GOOD

just came back after like 6 months

okay so uh

what do I want on a heavy helbore for perks

[last parcel]

there's a pinned message with a ms word link to an updated vet guide that includes blessings and dump stats for all weapons

[torpid sundial]

ah got it

thanks

[blazing notch]

be careful, there is a good chance that after the hotfix, the rounding errors will be fixed on that roll and it will be like a 79/79/80/80/62 instead of an 80/80/80/80/62 roll

[oblique totem]

I have a question.
Between the heavy sword and dueling sword, which is better for killing monstrosities?

[stable socket]

pretty sure it's dueling sword if you can reliably hit weakspot

[torpid sundial]

finally

after two years

my helbore is completed

the difference between helbore and all the other guns is funny

anyways uh

is smoke grenade still a meme

[thick kestrel]

nah, smokes are damn solid

[torpid sundial]

🤔

[thick kestrel]

they take a bit of planning to use but they're very handy for protecting the team

[torpid sundial]

I know it blocks snipers and stuff now

[thick kestrel]

think of them as a weaker version of the psyker bubble with more charges

[torpid sundial]

fair

which gun pairs well with it though

actually

I guess if you run melee veteran

it'll be useful

[thick kestrel]

though, it's worth noting that it does some VERY useful things to specialists targeting... it messes with hounds and trappers making them have to get MUCH closer before they can try and grab you

[torpid sundial]

I'll probably stick with frag for the helbore just because I need more waveclear for myself

[thick kestrel]

as they have to run into the smoke, THEN spot you, THEN attack

[torpid sundial]

I'll def try smoke with some melee vet builds though

[thick kestrel]

the downside is you do lose the insane crowd control/clear of frags and the specific problem solving of Kraks, so you want to make sure you have answers to those problems

[torpid sundial]

yeah

not having that kind of immediate waveclear is kinda bad

[thick kestrel]

but yeah, not really a meme anymore as much as a specific support choice

[torpid sundial]

👍

[thick kestrel]

and, as you mentioned, melee/stealth vets get a lot of milage out of them

personally I run them with a mkV autogun + fast melee loadout, tends to cover the bases

I lack range... but I'm also diving enemy shooters like a zealot rather than trying to outshoot them like a traditional Veteran setup so it kind of evens out

[torpid sundial]

oh yeah

I did run an autogun build with ranged immunity while sprinting

and jsut

running straight into their backlines

[thick kestrel]

(the Dueling swords work pretty damn well for this it seems... still leveling mine but 2-3 headshot stabbing crushers to death is delightful)

[torpid sundial]

it was the most fun ive had with autoguns tbh

I noticed veterans have shock mauls now as well

always liked those

[thick kestrel]

yarp

[torpid sundial]

dunno if they're good for waveclear here

[thick kestrel]

they're pretty solid, they lean a bit more to control over murder but have a lot of utility

[torpid sundial]

nice

[thick kestrel]

take a bit of getting used to with the attack patterns to get to the right combos but they're a good defensive all rounder, particularly being able to stunlock dangerous targets with their shock attacks

good for executioner stance builds where you don't have much melee investment

main thing I want to sort out now is getting a DMR style boltgun built... with the new weapon swap node and the general improvements there's pretty decent odds it's going to be glorious :>

the Boltpistol definitely feels SO much better

[torpid sundial]

oh yeah I just saw that weap swap node

a blessing with my helbore

because I've only ever used heavy helbore which has a god forsaken swap speed

[clever estuary]

hmmm, can anyone recommend a good Infantry Lasgun build with executioner veteran?

[torpid sundial]

Never clicked with medium and light helbore despite their melees being way better

[thick kestrel]

this is what I'm playing with at the moment, though there's some nodes I'm looking to experiment with a bit. it feels solid though and is fairly survivable.

marking targets with the infantry Las feels a bit more solid than marksman's focus for dealing with key targets for me.

I tend to save Marksman's focus for my Vigilant Autogun loadouts, just feels a bit better there

but this is mainly giving you high survivability combined with solid reliable ranged damage. getting headhunter and deadly accurate on the Lasgun seems to be the sweet spot (with Maniac/flak for blessings as personal taste)

the downside to this is carapace armour can prove tricky so you might want to tune your melee to that end

folding shovels, powersword and combat axes are solid picks

[torpid sundial]

just going off memory and building my helbore tree again 🤔 idk if I need to optimize anything

[thick kestrel]

for personal taste I'm a big fan of confirmed kill near the top of the tree, it's really effective and stacks with exhilarating takedown :>

[torpid sundial]

ah yeah fair

[thick kestrel]

dropping Volly adept for it might be worthwhile? particularly as Las-trooper is going to be helping you with shooting uptime already.

[blazing notch]

okay, so is the consensus that all of the Veteran's Abilities are relatively equal in viability in endgame content? Because I see Voice of Command and Infiltrate wayyyy more often than I see Executioner's Stance

[torpid sundial]

I can probably remove Bring it Down or Vollet adept

[winter dock]

Exe stance is tougher to use because it provides 0 safety, and safety is what the veteran lacks most. But if you're good at being safe in general, then you can get good value out of it.

[thick kestrel]

i'd keep Bring it down, Helbores are great for big solid hits to chunk down tough targets, no risk leaning into that

[torpid sundial]

I mean its usually an overkill by that point for most enemies

especially since I'm running heavy helbore

[thick kestrel]

true, but I like to think part of the Helbore's role is to take down crushers and reapers as quick as possible :>

[torpid sundial]

but I took Bring It Down specifically for monstrosities

[thick kestrel]

might as well be REALLY good at that job

and yeah, as you mention, monstrosities

[torpid sundial]

also I forgot, does Stripped Down (Ranged immune while sprinting) work with Duck and Dive and Reciprocity

[winter dock]

Helbore's job is to nuke chunky stuff while still being able to efficiently take care of not chunky stuff

sort of in-between of the lasguns and the plas/bolter

and its very good at that

all three marks have their uses

[torpid sundial]

because the last time I asked like a year ago it wasnt the case

[thick kestrel]

yee... I'm interested to see how well the new anti-armour blessing it has works for that role

with the brittleness on hit

[winter dock]

Probably doesn't tbh, that stacking brittleness thing only really matters for weapons with super high ROF or on monstrosities

and the helbore is not high ROF, and is usually gonna be one or two tapping big armored stuff

[thick kestrel]

aye, perhaps on the "light" helbore

[winter dock]

If it applied like, between 4-16 stacks depending on charge that would be neat

[torpid sundial]

yeah light helbore spams quite a few shots so its worth it

not heavy

since everything dies in two hits

or one

[thick kestrel]

I'd say the variant name but... that's in the air atm ^^

[winter dock]

3a is the light one I think. Actually fuck it I'm gonna test that right now

[thick kestrel]

I think 3a is the old "standard"?

it's going to take a minute to relearn all of that from scratch ^^

but it might be a possible pick over surgical specifically on the light variant combined with weight of fire letting you go for the full RoF

purely because you don't need to "hold" for the crit chance

[winter dock]

I think the "middle" helbore doesnt really have a niche right now. Long helbore uses surgical for big chunks, fast helbore applies infernus and/or brittle with fast chained charge shots

middle helbore... idk?

[thick kestrel]

general all rounder most likely, which can be tricky for an already specialist gun... it likely depends on breakpoints

[winter dock]

Huh, I learned something weird

the cleave granted by hotshot

it.. lasts?

[torpid sundial]

wait

[winter dock]

I weakspot hit a crusher, and saw the exact icon for that blessing pop up on the buff bar

[torpid sundial]

did burn become useful or something

[winter dock]

and then body shot some stuff and it went right thru

[torpid sundial]

last I checked burn was absolutely useless against armor

so helbores never needed infernus

since enemies die to the chunky shots anyways

[winter dock]

Ahhh I see, its just permanently on the buff bar

Infernus is what recons use to kill big stuff

[torpid sundial]

yep

that I know

[winter dock]

infernus on chain shots is what light helbore uses to kill monstrosities

oHka yeah

The 3a is the middleground

the V is the fast

and the IV is the slow

Hmm u know

Fast helbore with chainshot and hot-shot

could melt groups of elites/specials

[torpid sundial]

why did they even rename the helbore numbers

I was so confused when I logged in

[steady magnet]

What would be good perks/blessings to put on my shovel?
It's for my Infiltrate Kriegsman melee build that charges into the Emperor's enemies

[winter dock]

They wanted to make the naming conventions more consistent across families

but tbh it really isn't

[torpid sundial]

ah

lol

[winter dock]

if anything its less consistent than before

Cuz before Vraks/Agripinna were always the "slow firing" weapons, Columnus was always fast firing, and Graia was always middleground

and then some weapons were just all from the same planet (like the Kantrael lasguns) or had entirely different desginations (then the Kantrael shotty and the lawbringer)

But now you have some weapons that have both a vraks and an agripinna variant, or ones where the vraks variant is fast for one gun but slow for another

The worst of all though is that its different from before, and didn't really matter at all

like it didn't need to change xd

[past arch]

What melee is best for veteran after the update, the chain sword has always been a good option but I want to try something else out

[thick kestrel]

combat axes are still a gold standard for versatility and solid all rounders

devil swords continue to stand as strong "light" enemy clearing machines with strong anti-rager capabilities thanks to the parry.

powersword is still powersword, very strong but a bit clunky for my own tastes...

heavy swords are almost certainly going to be a VERY strong choice if you want to try something new

[winter dock]

Shovel ❤️

[thick kestrel]

dueling swords are powerful can-openers with a lot of defensive utility as well (stupid long dodges, heavy attacks on two of the variants are thrusts which just wreck most things)

and the shovels are still just kind of great

we've got a lot of good options going atm :>

but genuinely the classic oldschool loadout of infantry Las, Devilsword and Frags is feeling kind of great atm

little weak against carapace, but the buff on the devilsword parry covers a multitude of sins ^^

[winter dock]

The classic loadout is that but with shovel

😠

[past arch]

My current biggest issue is hordes of canon fodder enemies, dregs, scabs, 21st and poxwalkers

[winter dock]

Any good crowd clear weapon works for that

chainswords, p sword, shovel

[strong pine]

Honestly hordes aren't a problem as vet, even with a weak cc weapon proper stam management you'll be fine

Also shredder grenades go brrr

[past arch]

I guess im just so used to the chain swords damage everything else feels weak

[queen chasm]

New rolling steel operation (the train one)
Damnation difficulty, we ran out of time and we had 25 seconds left. We were at the boss and he had half life and full shield. It was over for us but we were between the two wagons and i shouted the boss out of the train making him fall and die.... we finished the mission. Voice of command saves the day

[blissful cliff]

Weakest guardsman versus Nurgle’s strongest heretic.

[thick kestrel]

yeee, the new mission is a toughie... took me a few goes before managing it

figuring out you could close the train cars behind you was the trick for me :>

[blissful cliff]

It’s only temporary :(

[thick kestrel]

aye, but often long enough

[blissful cliff]

From what i’ve seen most groups have trouble around the battery cell portion

[thick kestrel]

the difference to having the enemy in front of you vs all around you works wonders for the momentum you need to push through

because it's less risk of someone getting left behind playing rearguard and reducing your forwards damage to push through

[winter dock]

People in general have issue with "protect the hacker" objectives, I find

noone wants to sit and mindlessly swing at poxxers

they constantly try to play dumbass dodging games

which inevitably leads to the hacker getting slapped

[oblique totem]

It's not difficult though. Just. Don't let any get past you and at the hacker

[winter dock]

so when 80% of the mission is protect the hacker for a very long time

I know, it isn't. But people struggle with it anyways

[blissful cliff]

The worse part is when you get slapped every time you try to hack.

[winter dock]

I often find myself the only person even bothering to do the objective

[oblique totem]

VoC comes in handy in these instances

[thick kestrel]

aye it happens... unironically a good spot for stealth veteran to steal some safe hacking time ^^

[winter dock]

so I think "well if they're ALL fighting, I should be good to hack"

and then I get stabbed by a poxxer

[restive rock]

gonna try out the plasma gun

what should be the dump stat?

[winter dock]

charge rate

has minimal actual effect

[blissful cliff]

I haven’t actually ever played with the plasma, i like being a silly little sly marbo too much lol

[winter dock]

Its neat

hard to use

its very heavily specialized at what it does, so its way too easy to waste all your ammo and have none when you actually need it

it is mandatory to have and heavily use a melee weapon

sort of like a boltgun, but even more extreme

[uncut pebble]

...hard to use..?

[thick kestrel]

high power problem solver gun

[winter dock]

Not in the literal mechanical sense

In the strategic sense

[uncut pebble]

Not really.

[winter dock]

you can blow yourself up if you're not careful, its reload is long as fuck so a dead mans click can fuck you

and its ammo is spars

so if you're too liberal you run out and fuck yourself

[uncut pebble]

You physically can't blow yourself up if you're using it correctly.

[winter dock]

you have to be strategic about when and how you use it

[uncut pebble]

Never charge it, only left click.

[winter dock]

Charging has its uses, ignoring that mechanic is idiotic

you're only using half the weapon at that point

[thick kestrel]

yeah, you really don't want to waste it on anything but key targets, you want to melee 90% of the time and use it for specials/elites

[uncut pebble]

Yeah.

Because charging it is barely a dps difference.

[lavish token]

charging it up is completly pointless

[winter dock]

On a single target yeah

but charge gains extra cleave

[winter dock]

so its great when you need to kill multiple elites at once

like a pack of ragers

or gunners

or shotgunners

or just a really long congaline of poxxers

[uncut pebble]

See, the thing is, charging it takes more time than just blasting something twice, and you get plenty of cleave to kill a target through any number of enemies with uncharged shots.

The extra time also means it's harder to get gets hot crit chance up.

[winter dock]

There's also that handy new blessing that gives more crit for charge, but even without it charging has its uses

[uncut pebble]

Takeaway here is, the ammo/dps difference is negligible between charging and not, but the speed of using uncharged shots is better, and you can't blow yourself up.

So yeah, you can argue that it's only using "half the weapon," but when the other half doesn't do anything better, why should anyone use it?

Same thing could be argued for hand cannon surgical zaronas.

You're not hip firing it ever. Why aren't you?

Because it's inefficient.

Also, note, I have never used a plasma gun, this is just common knowledge.

[winter dock]

And I have used it

Extensively

and I am telling you

Charging.

Has.

Its.

Uses.

[uncut pebble]

I have a loadout with BIS blessings and a good build for it, but I have never touched it.

[winter dock]

There is a Reason to charge. It has a use case, and ignoring that use case is removing a valuable tool from your arsenal

Its especially useful on things like CIVI

[uncut pebble]

Ok... every other vet with "extensive use" of plasma disagrees with you.

[winter dock]

when u have entire herds of maulers and armor ragers and normal scabs

[uncut pebble]

I'm just the guy regurgitating their information right now.

[winter dock]

and you just need to get out as much raw damage on that as humanly possible

Or if there's a massive congaline of dregs/groaners/poxwalkers, a singleshot will kill like 4 or 5, but a charge could kill the entire line

[uncut pebble]

But it won't.

Just shoot twice.

It's faster.

[lavish token]

shooting twice is numerically superior d

dps wise

[winter dock]

Im not talking about on paper spreadsheet fucking 0-100 monstrosity killing

[uncut pebble]

This is tried and true information I am giving to you, you just need to accept it.

[winter dock]

Its simple multiplication

2 single shots will kill 8-10 poxxers

a chargeshot could kill literally 50

[uncut pebble]

Yeah, it's simple math. 2 shots does more dps than 1 charged..

[winter dock]

or likewise damage or kill a fuckload of armored elites

[uncut pebble]

Open. Your. Ears.

[winter dock]

No, you're the one who isn't fucking listening

[uncut pebble]

.

[thick kestrel]

guys, chill

[uncut pebble]

I'm not even heated. I'm just laying out common information.

[thick kestrel]

and being an arse with the tone, chill

[blissful cliff]

I feel like i unknowingly started a war 😭

[near sable]

https://tenor.com/view/memri-gif-20731147

[uncut pebble]

Everyone in vet chat is "an arse with the tone," it comes free with being in vet chat.

[thick kestrel]

don't worry about it DJ, it's clear this isn't going anywhere

[tropic imp]

There's just some people that are really bad at exchanging opinions

[blissful cliff]

In all fairness that’s how it’s felt in every chat

[uncut pebble]

I can see that with psyker chat and ogryn chat, but I can't with zealout chat.

[blissful cliff]

I chalk it up to it being a pve game where people can’t beat eachother over the head lmao

[uncut pebble]

Most zealout chat goers are fine.

Most.

[near sable]

Stan.

[lavish token]

me

[uncut pebble]

Stan is alright if I ignore how he eats food.

Unfortunately I can't do that...

[blissful cliff]

H-how does he eat food?

[blazing notch]

Unless I am reading my weapon roll wrong, an 80% damage roll on Plasma Rifle means 596 damage with hip fire, and 1650 damage with a charged shot.. Charged shots deal roughly 2.77x what a single hipfire shot does... So you'd need at least 3 shots of hipfire to do more damage than a single charged shot

[uncut pebble]

So he gets a perfectly good taco, right.

Hard shell.

And then he SMASHES IT LIKE AN APE AND EATS IT WITH A FORK.

[blissful cliff]

[blazing notch]

Hipfire vs Charged shot damage table

[uncut pebble]

That doesn't matter when your target dies in 2 shots, though.

[blazing notch]

very real. 😂

[uncut pebble]

Any damage beyond the hp pool of the enemy in question is wasted.

[blazing notch]

Plasma guns overdamage probably most enemies they hit. lol

[uncut pebble]

Hence why 2 shots are better than 1 charged shot.

Plasma is a little strange, though. Gotta hit a lot of 1shot bps.

[blazing notch]

Hopefully we're not using Charged shots on enemies that could even possibly die in 2 shots. Lol

[viral nacelle]

I feel like if you want to talk about the use of a weapon you should use it first

[uncut pebble]

.

[viral nacelle]

Yeah and that’s not particularly valuable

[uncut pebble]

I'm just stating things that have already been stated by people with a combined 20k+ hours.

[viral nacelle]

You haven’t tried it 🤷‍♀️

Test stuff yourself, don’t just repeat shit

[uncut pebble]

Also Dorn has popped in a couple times, and he has several thousand hours, some with plasma. He knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[viral nacelle]

People repeat bullshit all the time

I have tested plasma and I don’t bother with charge shot

[blazing notch]

I'm only using charged shots these days when the Crusher is really far away, someone ping spotted it, and I can line up a possible easy 1 shot headshot to knock out a target. Otherwise, I'm mostly using Charged shots if I am not being swarmed and trying to dick down a Beast of Nurgle or something lol.

[uncut pebble]

Unfortunately for you I make a disclaimer when I might be wrong. This time, I know I'm not.

[blazing notch]

Charged shot needs something else going on to use it over normal hipfire, 99% of the time.

Having said that, I also thoroughly enjoy killing myself with Plasma Rifle charged shots.

Dude looks at his gun like 😨

[uncut pebble]

Plasma explosion is funny.

[viral nacelle]

You happen to be right this time but your method sucks and you’re a jackass 🤷‍♀️

[uncut pebble]

[blissful cliff]

You know, before i would’ve been like “lol, let me just get lucky with a god roll. See you in several hours” but now i quite literally could just get a god roll plasma and test it

[uncut pebble]

Right? It's great, isn't it.

Still gotta grind out that mastery though.

[blissful cliff]

Honestly, not too too bad

[uncut pebble]

Yeah you get plenty of xp.

One auric does like 2 or 3 levels on any given weapon.

[blissful cliff]

It’s only been a few days and almost all the weps i give an f about are maxed

[uncut pebble]

5ish matches for people that had most blessings is all it takes to have max mastery.

[blissful cliff]

And prior to update last time i played was when they added the fanny revolver lol

[blazing notch]

its so weird... I would never have expected the rolls to be this good after the update... Beforehand getting even close to a godroll was super lucky, now after nearly every mission im finding some 80/80/80/80/60 or 61 or its like 1% off somewhere.

I'm not sure if I like it, long term. I really like it now because of how hard good guns have been to get in the past, but this seems like it went too far in the other direction lol

[viral nacelle]

I find stuff I can upgrade to an acceptable level

Which beats the old system for sure

[blissful cliff]

I personally believe it’s better for it to be easy

Than it to be extremely hard

[viral nacelle]

I’m just happy that after like two years we don’t have to deal with the locks bullshit

[blazing notch]

Yeah getting rid of the locks has been a good change. Previously getting a good stat roll could mean you still have shit if you didn't roll it well.

[uncut pebble]

I just want there to be more curio functionality now.

[blissful cliff]

Like the whole reason i stopped playing was because playing 10 aurics just for hadron to brick the one decent weapon i got after spending all my funds

Was infuriating

[blazing notch]

But now we have goated stat rolls and no locks...

[viral nacelle]

Yep

[uncut pebble]

Hadron on her way to brick my first perfect 380 hsword like she was fucking paid to do it

[blissful cliff]

I’d see hella cool builds i wanted to try

[viral nacelle]

I refused to come back til they ditched it and now that it’s gone it’s great. + they made everything cheap so that’s nice too

[blissful cliff]

But each build required hundreds of hours poured into getting something equivalent to serviceable

[uncut pebble]

The biggest qol improvement I got from this update was access to manstopper on the db.

Been running knife db weapon spec and its like crack.

[blissful cliff]

I wanna try and make it work on my zealot

[viral nacelle]

Grinding out the new weapons is kinda slow tho. Like they added bolt pistol while I was gone and getting it up takes a minute if I don’t want to just buy and upgrade a couple dozen

[blissful cliff]

But idk fuck all on how db works lmao

[uncut pebble]

Vet has a lot better usage of db than both zealout and psyker.

And thats solely because you never have to reload it by hand.

[blazing notch]

Honestly, I really appreciate that we got a new free coating for every single weapon in the game for hitting max mastery. That was crazy to me.

[lavish token]

At least it was better thj

[uncut pebble]

With weapon spec, you can take always prepared, and ONE kill loads a shell.

[lavish token]

than the day 1 system

[viral nacelle]

Yes 😂

[uncut pebble]

This, I did not enjoy. Most weapons look like candy canes and basically every zealout is disappointed with the thunder hammer skin.

[blissful cliff]

Yea that seems pretty good, i definitely want to master it so i can feel like a cliche deamonhunter lmao

[blazing notch]

Candy Canes is funny lol. Haven't seen the Thunderhammer. I'll go check it out

[blissful cliff]

I would say some of the ranged weapons look nice with it

[uncut pebble]

It's literally a fucking brick on a stick.

It looks horrible.

[viral nacelle]

Rashad looks good with it

[blissful cliff]

Like the flamer skin

[viral nacelle]

Nice fire axe look

[uncut pebble]

The db skin is nice.

Haven't looked at the flamer one but I know I have it.

[blazing notch]

tbf the only alternative for a new player at the moment is either a boring red skin or a boring blue skin that costs like 20k dockets. Having more ways to glam up your guns is better than fewer

[uncut pebble]

True, but the skins themselves don't really look good for the most part.

[thick kestrel]

mhmm, I get the logic behind the new skin... it's mechanicus patterning

[uncut pebble]

Like, go look at the combat knife.

[thick kestrel]

it just doesn't always work alongside the other styles

[blissful cliff]

It’s a literal candy cane

[uncut pebble]

Yeah, it looks like shit.

They could've done far better with that.

[blazing notch]

Yeah I wish they hadn't gone with red. Already a red skin for every weapon. Green or Yellow could have been cool.

most of the armor they had is lore accurate to a degree, are weapon coatings the same?

[uncut pebble]

Make the accents of the hilt red and the blade stark white would've been how I kept the palette without making it an eyesore.

[thick kestrel]

but it's not something out of left field... it's Mechanicus Red and the white "battlement" markings are a common Admech motif

it's just... clashing hard

[uncut pebble]

They could've also done a single edged model and done the battlement markings on the spine of the blade.

Literally anything could've been better than that.

[blissful cliff]

I think the red is too bright

[uncut pebble]

I have no idea, but its clear that it's all supposed to be mechanicus themed, what with Hadron getting renovations and whatnot.

[blazing notch]

A purple galaxy skin like the old Call of Duty prestige rewards lol

[blissful cliff]

And there is too much white

I think it needed more metallic detailing

It just doesn’t look gritty enough which is why it’s uh

Jarring

[uncut pebble]

I dont think they have to look gritty, per se... I just think they went overboard with markings and whatnot and it makes the weapons not look good.

[blazing notch]

Yeah stylistically I can definitely see it clashing with the setting. Everything is dark and battered, weapons are scuffed and damaged, and now we have a bright red and white glossy coating on everything

[blissful cliff]

To be honest i don’t really notice skins anyways

Too busy having heretic blood and guts spattering all over my screen

[topaz lance]

The mastery skins are so ugly they're kinda endearing to me. I rock them on all of the weapons I use (except the bolt pistol, I'm a sucker for black/green and the newpremium skin is perfect)

They look like toys or christmas decoration

[blissful cliff]

We just need a santa hat for Ogryn

An ogryn called Krampus

And the giant candy came pick axe

[uncut pebble]

There's a hat in the shop right now that's pretty close iirc.

Should be in the tab with the rogue trader stuff, if it's still here.

[blissful cliff]

I’d do it but i don’t play Ogryn

I feel too slow :(

[uncut pebble]

I'm telling you, ogryn has no issues being slow once you learn the kit.

I am literally an unkillable god if I don't get disabled.

[blissful cliff]

Oh i believe you, i’m just bad

I can’t clutch aurics/maelstroms my map knowledge is lacking

[winter dock]

The charge shots have way more cleave. Cleave is a value that relates to enemy hitmass, in the way that if an attack has more cleave than the enemy has hitmass, the attack passes through and has its remaining cleave reduced by the hitmass of the enemy- as well as its damage, somewhat proportionally. Its not exactly proportional, theres some more math in there but the point is that the more cleave an attack has, the more targets it will hit and the more damage it will deal to each of those targets.

Enemy hitmass isn't always 1, in fact most enemies have more than 1, and the bigger, heavier, more armored enemies have more hitmass.

So while, yes two single shots will deal more dps to a single target, or potentially about the same to a small number of targets. A single charge shot can and fucking will deal WAY more damage by far to a large number of targets. Even a single shot of plas can only kill a handful of poxwalkers, or maybe a rager or three. But when you're playing on Auric Damnation or especially Auric Maelstrom, and you have an entire congaline of ragers, poxers, shotgunners, armored scabs, maybe even a few crushers, a single plasma chargeshot into that massive, super dense pack of enemies will do several times more overall damage spread out across the pack than two single shots will.

Its an extremely simple use case. Packs. Hordes. Groups. It has more more, so you use it to kill big bunches of high health enemies. Modifiers like waves of mutants? Or poxhound packs? One charge shot will chew through several of those at once. Got a pack of like 3 flamers, 2 bombers, and whatever fuckelse in-between? One charge shot takes care of them all.

\

I am tired of having this conversation. Its not fucking rocket science. I don't know how people using this gun fail to see it. The game isn't so fucking brainless. Weapons can have multiple functions, or multiple uses. This isn't a conversation about which is better because thats a stupid fucking question to begin with. Its about how to use the weapon- and anyone that exclusively uses single shots without EVER using charge shots is blatantly ignoring one of the Plasma Gun's most potent tools, the one thing that it does that no other gun in the game does except technically a hotshot helbore (and even then the plasma does it better by virtue of sheer raw damage and still higher cleave, and of course not needing a weakpoint hit).

(another note is that Ogryns using bull rush have a very strong ability to forcibly create densely packed congalines of enemys, since they tend to cluster up on the sides of a hallway- there's also of course the spawnpoints/doors when enemies ignore their own pathing and stack up as they spawn in)

(and ledges)

[uncut pebble]

Not gonna lie. Not reading all that.

[winter dock]

Not my problem if you're illiterate

[uncut pebble]

Not my problem you're arguing against basic information.

[oblique totem]

A lot of words, but useful words

[winter dock]

You dont even use the weapon, any opinion you have is ultimately backed by nothing.

[uncut pebble]

More like a lot of words, but saying nothing.

Your argument boils down to "charged shots have more cleave."

[fluid escarp]

Average vet class discussion

[uncut pebble]

Which is utterly irrelevant.

[winter dock]

It is not

Cleave is extremely important, and I explained

why

but YOU can't read

so go back to gradeschool

[fluid escarp]

Correction, doesnt want to

[winter dock]

Basically equivalent

[fluid escarp]

[winter dock]

ignorance is ignorance, whether willful or otherwise

[umbral scaffold]

Dude just stop talking

[uncut pebble]

No.

[umbral scaffold]

Ok chud

Go back to believing in your minuscule beliefs

[lavish token]

he is righ

[uncut pebble]

I am literally correct.

[umbral scaffold]

Sounds like an ego thing dweeb

[uncut pebble]

???

It's information anyone else that frequents vet chat could tell you.

[umbral scaffold]

Ok then explain

[uncut pebble]

Unfortunately it's 630AM and nobody is awake at this ungodly hour.

[umbral scaffold]

Explain again in your own words

Rn

[blazing notch]

everyone just relax, and look....

[uncut pebble]

So it falls to either me or Dorn.

[blazing notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/783447567111159808/1076736021384929330/image0.gif

[uncut pebble]

And Dorn doesn't want to.

[lavish token]

frog has an ego?

what

[uncut pebble]

Lmao.

Ego isn't real

[blazing notch]

keep your eyes on the colors, everyone

[umbral scaffold]

It is you just consume it daily chud

[uncut pebble]

It's made up by the forces of chaos to undermine the authority of proper imperial scholars.

[umbral scaffold]

Ok nerd this isn’t a RP server

[uncut pebble]

It's a joke.

[lavish token]

guess i am spending a few hundred thousand dockets on plasma

[uncut pebble]

Inb4 Dorn wall of text.

[blazing notch]

I'm going to post a spongebob twerking gif if you guys don't stop arguing

don't make me do it

[uncut pebble]

*Of actual correct information.

[umbral scaffold]

Hope you get a god roll

[uncut pebble]

*Correct numerical information.

[umbral scaffold]

With this insufferable amphibian you might as well

[blazing notch]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-16228182834776260558

Yeah, thats right

aint nobody talking now

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-and-ok-and-whole-sqaud-gif-22248092

[blazing notch]

everyone go back to quickplaying into train mission with 30s left on the clock on the first obj

[uncut pebble]

You literally joined this server a week ago and are arguing with one of the few people that actually has any shred of knowledge about the game. I don't think you really need to be forming opinions on who is and isn't insufferable yet.

My all accounts I'm being pretty tame right now.

No ad hominems from me.

[lavish token]

even I am not being toxic

shocking i know

[uncut pebble]

I'm just regurgitating information.

[umbral scaffold]

I don’t use this dog shit app so sorry my account is too new to you, but clearly I can see why you have to stroke your ego

A. You don’t stop you keep going

B. You havnt represented your info on cleave

C. You just arguing for ego boost and ERP on a server that doesn’t allow it

So idk what to tell you chud

[lavish token]

400lk plasteel and 200 plasteel

[umbral scaffold]

Get charge rate to 60 that’s the perfect god roll

[lavish token]

charge rate 60 completly negates charged shots

: )

[umbral scaffold]

Spam left click

Idk what to tell you

[lavish token]

go read up

[blazing notch]

How come?

[lavish token]

that is what we have been saying

[umbral scaffold]

So you don’t spam left click

[blazing notch]

serious question

[uncut pebble]

A. I was perfectly content to stop but they replied with a literal wall of text.

B. My argument was that there isn't a reason to use charged shots because the dps and ammo difference is negligible, but uncharged shots are faster and you can't explode from them.

C. Again, I don't have an ego, that's Dorn's job, and I made a joke about ego, hence the chadgryn emote.

[lavish token]

We have been saying charged shots are less dps

[blazing notch]

I was late to the last convo I just chimed in to post the tables in-game so I may be missing context

[uncut pebble]

And there you go, you're agreeing with me and you don't even know what the original topic was!

[lavish token]

And dice is having a meltdown

Anyway, guess I will be myself

[uncut pebble]

This is definitely a discord moment.

[lavish token]

Learned to dodge yet dice lmao

[umbral scaffold]

That’s why you have that at low 60%

You only need to spam left click on plasma gun

[analog mural]

Not a vet player but even I know charged shots are less DPS

[lavish token]

Go re read the argument

[uncut pebble]

That's literally what we were talking about.

[umbral scaffold]

Charge shots are for rare occasions to one hit a crusher which is easy enough to do

[umbral scaffold]

That’s what I’m pointing out

[lavish token]

That’s what me and frog have been saying

[uncut pebble]

Left click good, right click bad.

[lavish token]

Dice is too uhh stuck in his ways to accept that

[umbral scaffold]

Idk why you trying to complain and argue over an online forum no one cares about

[uncut pebble]

Dice said otherwise.

[blazing notch]

I'm going to post increasingly stupid gifs until everyone holds hands

[winter dock]

I'm playing atm so I can't type frequently, thats why I did wall of text. Im having a meltdown because people are treating DPS as the single only extant fucking stat in the game when that is so blatantly unjtrue its not even funny

[blazing notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/876572053984141372/974370905285361754/image0-5.gif

[uncut pebble]

We don't hold hands here, bro. We argue and get red in the face until a commissar starts waving a bolt pistol around.

[blazing notch]

wait I think i have a gif for this

[uncut pebble]

This is also why I am not a frequent vet chat goer.

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/mike-o'hearn-gif-7678673529070379788

[blazing notch]

https://tenor.com/view/dow-warhammer-40k-for-the-emperor40k-gif-25351038

fo da emporah

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/camboysminaj-gif-13704039054708777555

[blazing notch]

I like Ogryn chat. They talk about throwing rocks and eating copious amounts of rations and post things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwVwpUU7lqU

[oblique totem]

My boy

[uncut pebble]

Ogryn chat is mega based.

Just don't let them know you don't main ogryn.

Slab will eat you.

[blazing notch]

They take refugees, as far as I know.

See?

Doesn't get more wholesome

[uncut pebble]

You will become rashuns soon...

[placid portal]

they may not count past two but sure as well save more than three

[uncut pebble]

You don't realize it yet...

[placid portal]

So fatshark. LAS cannon for Ogryn when

[uncut pebble]

We need lascannons and autocannons for ogryn.

Stub rifles for the little uns.

[placid portal]

they big and strong, should get bigga gun

[uncut pebble]

And uh...

2h power sword/force sword.

And power axe.

Lots of weapons.

[analog mural]

give me dual melee weapons

[placid portal]

knuckle duster for OGryn, fisting the heretics

[blissful cliff]

power fist when?

[torpid comet]

I'm a heretic 😉

[blissful cliff]

AYO?!

[blazing notch]

yeah, looking at the weapon skins for the ogryn class that groups all the skins into families, really showcases how undersaturated the Ogryn's options are for weapons

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/cease-your-heresy-gif-19891262

[blazing notch]

Only 3 different types of guns, big ass shotgun, big ass ripper, and big ass gatling gun

[blissful cliff]

The Codex Astartes does not support this action.

[blazing notch]

just pick your firerate and done

[placid portal]

Hey man I guess it means easier choice for big man when going out for a good smashing

[torpid comet]

I'm in a non codex compliant chapter

[placid portal]

angry marines moment

[blissful cliff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927736178613043272/1288871032102326312/you-can-now-hold-smite-for-30-seconds-with-scriers-gaze-and-v0-jvfgza9nn1rd1.png?ex=66fa0df0&is=66f8bc70&hm=f38f1dff16b614dc171819cede712a27cc39e259221ff01bed36b3b93572e55a&

[placid portal]

Now we need the Angry Guard

[uncut pebble]

That's just the Catachans.

[placid portal]

that'll do

[uncut pebble]

They will literally fucking kill and eat you without batting an eye.

They do NOT care.

[blazing notch]

you will now become a servitor, thank you

[placid portal]

I'm just imagining them with a big knife and speaking in aussie

[uncut pebble]

That's pretty damn close to what they actually are.

[lavish token]

10 of each

[blazing notch]

still have resisted the urge to download mods

the pull of chaos is strong

[uncut pebble]

Most mods are great.

I find the game is a lot harder without numerical ui.

[blazing notch]

What does numerical ai do?

[uncut pebble]

See hp, toughness, and ammo count of teammates, see your dodge count, max ammo cap, and how much ammo tins/stashes restore.

The big one is your dodge count, though.

Very, VERY handy.

[blazing notch]

i jus be raw doggin it I guess

[river wraith]

The bolter mastery skin is so beautiful

[sharp echo]

decimator or uncanny strike for standard sapper shovel?

[blazing notch]

I do both 🙂 Definitely uncanny if you can only pick 1

[uncut pebble]

BIS is uncanny skullcrusher with flak unarmored for perks, iirc.

Might do maniac instead of unarmored though.

[blazing notch]

I really like decimator but Uncanny has a pretty huge impact constantly for mixed hordes imo

[sharp echo]

"BIS" ?

[uncut pebble]

I could always be wrong with that one, only recently started using shovels.

[uncut pebble]

"Best in slot."

[sharp echo]

ah

I think I'll go for decimator, sounds more fun anyhow

[winter dock]

extended weapon customization is must-have IMO. Having actual sights on most of the vet guns is invaluable

[blazing notch]

I don't care or judge anyone for using this, but this steps into mods providing a gameplay advantage to me, which I would probably stay away from

Having said that they have gotta fix the helbore scope

Only reason I don't use it

[winter dock]

It sort of does, but its the one thing I relent on in that department. Because Ironsights are godawful and never fun to play with in any game, ever

I loathe ironsights

[umbral scaffold]

Words of a nurgle cultist

[winter dock]

for me its an absolutely necessary QOL

[sharp echo]

i actually really like ironsights for some reason

[candid agate]

i really do not like some psyker players in this world

[blazing notch]

I actually like the Infantry autogun sights. But some of them are dookie

[sharp echo]

I tried that mod it's so extremely buggy for me for some reason

[umbral scaffold]

The iron sights in this game are far better then any imo… look at rainbow six

[winter dock]

True, the Recon las irons are slightly tolerable

plasma "irons" is fine cuz it doesnt actually have any sight

What I hate is that ironsights obscure the entire bottom half of the "crosshair" of sorts

being forced to aim at a tiny pixel-thin sliver of the top of the enemy's head is aggravating

[umbral scaffold]

The only worse ones you can say are the colomnus with their double end sight and frontal post sight

[blazing notch]

You should have seen my revulsion when I first tried to ADS one of the Braced Autoguns when I was new lol

[winter dock]

I need to see their entire body, preferably

[sharp echo]

wait which recon mark has highest fire rate ?

[blazing notch]

Nooo thats the one I like 🤣 not the columnus but the (former) agrip mark 1, the medium fire rate one

[blazing notch]

its the blue one

[sharp echo]

ok thank uuu

[blazing notch]

They just changed like nearly all of the names of the weapons (still, why 😂 ) so idk any of them anymore

[sharp echo]

It's XII

now

[wet elk]

got myself a toothpick

[blazing notch]

https://tenor.com/view/flushed-emoji-sus-flushed-emoji-flushed-sussy-emoji-gif-25009862

[sharp echo]

so for recon las I can go critical chance + either flak maniac or unyielding

and idk which to go for

[wet elk]

whats the trash stat of the maccabian?

[uncut pebble]

Recon las wants dumdum deathspitter with flak unyielding.

Scuse me flak maniac.

[blazing notch]

the veteran guide would suggest you go Flakiac

[sharp echo]

was about to say cleave but idk if it's the same for vet

[uncut pebble]

Mobility.

[sharp echo]

hell no

[uncut pebble]

It already has insane dodge distance.

[sharp echo]

then again i use it on psyker before so it could be different

[uncut pebble]

Psykers need the mobility because they don't have a lot of melee friendly talents.

[sharp echo]

what is use of dueling sword on vet, still just stabby on carapace?

[uncut pebble]

Vets don't.

[winter dock]

I don't use revolver much, is this statline a good roll? I imagine mobility would be the dumpstat here?

[uncut pebble]

Yup. Fills that niche well. Zealouts can use the mk5 to some decent effect with martyrdom. Ask Dorn, hes used it.

[blazing notch]

Dumdum + Deathspitter is double dipping yeah?

[sharp echo]

so Cleave is also less important

[uncut pebble]

Unironically, reload speed is the dump for revolvers.

[winter dock]

lol really? That seems so odd

[uncut pebble]

The difference between 60-80% is like a 3% speed diff.

[winter dock]

ahhh

just like charge rate on plasma

[uncut pebble]

But the sprint speed is like 12% between 60-80%.

[winter dock]

really really thin scaling bracket

[blissful cliff]

Vet also has numerous ways to buff or rather undermine the need to reload quickly

[sharp echo]

good luck, most fun gun i played with as vet, the agri revolver..

[uncut pebble]

Always prepared does exist.

It might only load 2 rounds for revolvers, but it does exist.

[blissful cliff]

i just wish the agri had slightly more pen

[sharp echo]

going for fire specifically so i went dumdum infernus

[uncut pebble]

Yes but it does a lot of damage when you start stacking up deathspitter.

[sharp echo]

that's why the crit chance increase

[blazing notch]

wonder if those stack additively or multiplicatively with each other

[uncut pebble]

Dumdum helps you chew through tougher targets.

[wet elk]

the 80% means it can be empowered to that point?

[uncut pebble]

Yes.

[wet elk]

jesus

[sharp echo]

so maybe something else would go well with infernus?

[wet elk]

ol

[winter dock]

2% baseroll

jesus

[blazing notch]

Yessur

[wet elk]

got lucky then

[sharp echo]

LMAOO

[uncut pebble]

Multiplicatively. Dumdum increases damage, then deathspitter strength is calculated after.

[blissful cliff]

All i'm seeing is a LOT of plasteel down the drain :(

[winter dock]

2% mobility XD

[wet elk]

heavy as a thunder hammer

[candid agate]

how am i supposed to use knife on vet? everyone tells me its really good but whenever i use it i dont really get good results so i wonder if im doing something wrong

[wet elk]

i mean

[sharp echo]

i don't remember but when I used it I did with a revolver

[wet elk]

also have this

[winter dock]

I just use it for mobility, mostly. Hold heavy swings to sprint really fast xd

[umbral scaffold]

Good but you want damage at 60 and mobility at 80

[blissful cliff]

Yea i don't fight armor with it

[wet elk]

this one might be the best

[blissful cliff]

That's what my daka daka vraks is for

[sharp echo]

eh that one with 60 mobility max was better

[wet elk]

kk

[sharp echo]

61

[torpid comet]

this guy has it right

[uncut pebble]

Need agile engagement, serrated blade, and mercy killer + uncanny strike on your knife.

[umbral scaffold]

I mean I guess since finesse is super must have

[sick cedar]

Vet chat

I present to you all

The tickler

[candid agate]

now my build is starved for points lol

[blissful cliff]

[wet elk]

does anyone know the best perks and materies for the maccabian? id guesss relentless ?

not sure the 2nd one

[wet elk]

laser tag gun

https://tenor.com/view/pew-shoot-your-shot-shooting-gif-23747076

[sick cedar]

Lore-accurate lasgun