veteran-class

[torn root]

.>

[toxic leaf]

hah

[low wagon]

And for mk3?

[tall torrent]

It needs piety

[restive rock]

was thinking of using an autogun, not sure which one though

like idk the big differences between the infantry, vigilant and braced guns

[torn root]

IAG MK5

what ever they changed the name to

others are kinda meh in comparison imo

[umbral scaffold]

Infantry is automatic with high finesse, vigilant is semi-auto or burst with high finesse, and braced is yolo mode

[restive rock]

the vigilant looks really cool to me but yeah, idk how good itd be

[torn root]

this one

[winter grove]

Yo I've got a question

Why does bistol need lethal proximity?

I get run n gun and surgical

[umbral scaffold]

We have the uhhh

Blue infantry is the highest damage, brown is a really good middle ground, and green is accurate pew-pew

[winter grove]

What's the new name for ciag again

[wary pier]

Do we have any information on the plasma bulwark interaction? I am not seeing the change in the notes

[thick kestrel]

Vraks mkV...

the names have changed but the MK's have remained consistant it seems.

[winter grove]

VIAG it is then

[thick kestrel]

in works on both levels \o/

[umbral scaffold]

having high mobiliyt is matched with high dodge count and distance so saying its not is just sad

[lone sierra]

can someone recommend me one all around build that is not plasma gun?

[umbral scaffold]

im sorry but mobility is way too valuable... it snot a dump stat it is sorely needed for auric maelstroms

[umbral scaffold]

for vetern you mean yes

[tall torrent]

improve explosion radius (including frag grenades)

[torn root]

i think you might be the only one that values mobility over the other more important stats

[umbral scaffold]

Mobility's dodge count is maxed at 51% with the exception of knife (never saw another), and the other stats it gives are not worth the loss in damage, cleave, penetration, critical hit, special attack or whatever else you're dumping in the place of mobility

[umbral scaffold]

all i said was mobility is needed to be max 80 and min 75

thats all i pointed out

Yeah, and something is lowering to make mobility 80

[torn root]

you literally just replied and said you dont think it is the dump stat

it is

[umbral scaffold]

its not

[lone sierra]

yea

[umbral scaffold]

you added words saying that i put taht over other stats

[wary pier]

i remember that higher mobility effects dogde range

[umbral scaffold]

when i only mentioned mobility

EXACTLY @wary pier proving my point

mobiliyt is a must have

for any melee

damage is the truest of true dump stats

[tall torrent]

Yea by like 2%

[winter grove]

You only need 51% for extra dodge

[umbral scaffold]

you get damaage super easily well

[winter grove]

Past that it's so unimpactful

[torn root]

you only need 51% mobility lmoa

[winter grove]

Oh shit fr?

[umbral scaffold]

taht honestly depends on what gun you wish to play.... overall the best ability rn is shout and running weapon specialist

[torn root]

2% dodge range is not doing much for you

[umbral scaffold]

The more damage you have, the higher the number you have to apply percentages on

[tall torrent]

It depends on weapon whether u need high 70s or not but is never really a “dump stat”

[torn root]

an extra pixle of dodge range probably isnt going to save you if you are dying while dash dancing without it

[umbral scaffold]

well even then i do super well with weapons that are at 65 damage cause thats all you really need... mobility being high and a must have especially since needing to avoid damage or deal with horde situations is sorely needed to at least give survivability

damage is already set with your mulittude of perks you get on hand

[winter grove]

Wait so if I use bistol with a build tha doesn't use frags do I just go with run n gun + surgical? @tall torrent

[umbral scaffold]

and damage is calculated by like 1 damage PER 10 percent that doenst add much

[tall torrent]

Well it’s like extra 0.5m so it’s not the worst thing in the world but it’s also not so impactful that u have to have it

[tall torrent]

Sure?

[umbral scaffold]

This has to be trolling

[umbral scaffold]

if you feel im troling then dont listen

idk what to tell you man

[torn root]

was an exaggeration

[lone sierra]

can you share some build talents with weapons

[umbral scaffold]

i can make up a build for you in a bit give me like 5min

People listening to misinformation is a bit of a problem

[torn root]

ngl you might be on a hill alone

defend it well lmao

[winter grove]

A hill that's gonna be 500kg bombed

[tall torrent]

Some weapons have other dump stats that don’t matter much either

For example power sword has at least 1 more dump stat that doesn’t change much

[umbral scaffold]

now i know you are just wanting attention

if youre going to come in from some random community that is already eating itself alive and just hate someoen cause i bring up great points on why mobility is a better stat to stay high over damage then im sorry i dont want to listen to you

stay in your lane from now on please thank you

[torn root]

?!

great points

along with your opinion on mobility that one is also pretty subjective

damage > mobility is pretty much the theme for meta in this game, aside from like the knife

[tall torrent]

It depends on weapon

[torn root]

they can dislike your opinion as much as you can any other

[umbral scaffold]

Somehow I consistently wreck shit on auric damnation while dumping the "must have" stat

[tall torrent]

Power sword dump 60% cleave target for 80% mobility: totally fair & justified

Combat axe not going for 60% mobility: you’re trolling

[torn root]

but then this is also depending on the blessing

both are kinda no shit answers ngl

you COULD dump cleave targets if you are taking Brutal Momentum

you WONT if you are taking Sundering

[umbral scaffold]

Slaughterer power cycler enjoyers

[tall torrent]

Nah even for sunder it doesn’t matter that much tbh

[torn root]

and then ther is Slughterer enjoyers too yeah

[tall torrent]

Unless u really care that much about sunder getting to hit a 5th crusher

[winter grove]

Oh yeah, except what? IAG mk5?

[torn root]

hitting a 5th crusher is more important than the 20% on mobility I'd be swapping in

[tall torrent]

And even for sunder you could still dump cleave damage

[winter grove]

That shit is good on 50% dmg I bet

[tall torrent]

So there’s always smth else to dump

On power sword

[tall torrent]

Power sword is a good example

[torn root]

when the argument for mobility is saftey and you then defend by saying cleave targets can be dumped while it also provides saftey is weird

that stagger do mattering

[winter grove]

Stagger on psword

Cough

[umbral scaffold]

It's for the 27th poxwalker hit by the swing

[torn root]

the higher up you go in diff, the more targets you will be fighting and hitting, there is a limit to how many you can actually stagger with min and max cleave

but just as much as mobility will help the cleave might too

[winter grove]

Which is why

Psword just outright kills them

[torn root]

well you cant just kill 36 pox walkers staight up

[winter grove]

BM with PC probably can

3 swings

[torn root]

i use BM

[flat pebble]

3.6 also happens to be the average of enemies being killed in one swing

[torn root]

its 3 swings for dense packs either way lmao

[flat pebble]

you’re staggering the enemies you’re also decapitating

[torn root]

the stagger is for the ones that dont die

also for not just walkers

ragers exist

[flat pebble]

alright Paul Allen now let’s see the stats at 60%

[torn root]

cant use BM when bulwarks are in the middle of a crowd either

wont go through them

so in this case with sunder that cleave matters more and more

actually i wont even say it doesnt matter with BM either

[umbral scaffold]

Perfect strike for power sword when

[winter dock]

Which Helbore is the slow charge one?

I can't remember the mark names and the stat windows are busted atm

showing 100% n/a in all categories

and definitely incorrect base damage/ammo

[umbral scaffold]

3

[flat pebble]

it’s not the 3 anymore

fuckin renames lol

[abstract kiln]

Does anyone know if the on overwatch penance trick still works where you jump off a ledge and spend the whole mission awaiting rescue to get it?

[flat pebble]

it should yeah

[abstract kiln]

Ok ty

Trying to do it legit and some little rat always gets me

[flat pebble]

if you don’t get the answer you can always test in the meat grinder for the one with the overhead special

[tame lodge]

That's just the charged attack 😭

Well sort of

[flat pebble]

and/or sunder

[tame lodge]

Well sunder does the mass reduction

[torpid pier]

i see they still haven't nerfed plasma gun

[tame lodge]

Can you even experience the animation of running out of cleave with a charged attack of psword lmao

[torpid pier]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-evil-laugh-evil-racoon-hehehehe-muhahaha-gif-25486258

[wary pier]

plasma shots are blocked by the bulwark shield atm

and i do not see it anywhere in the notes

[tame lodge]

They added new blessings
Now the best combo is Gets hot and Rising Heat

[torpid pier]

ohh nice

[dim goblet]

howdy vets been a giant hot minute since i played, thought about jumping back in, anyone willing to remind me what are the decent weapon choices ATM

[tame lodge]

Vraks 5 auto

Plasma

Zarona revolver

Bolter is on the menu

Bolt pistol is on the menu

We still need to test more stuff

[dim goblet]

the recon accatran still good?

[near abyss]

It didn't change at all, as far I as I remember?

[winter dock]

With the right build, yes

[umbral scaffold]

yes

they are now better then before

most would say meta

as you can rack up crits on them faster then before

[tame lodge]

The fast one is a popular pick for funny
The medium one has good ammo economy
The heavy one is good at killing stuff behind stuff

[umbral scaffold]

"go for the tan version it has better damage overall and better stability"

avoid the blue one too little damage to muster up its crit bonus

[magic trout]

One of the best weapons rn

[blissful cliff]

People are using the vraks 5 auto now?

Wait wtf is a vraks auto? 😂

[candid agate]

renamed columbness infantry autogun

to match up with the headhunter models

[dim goblet]

aight so my baby boy is untouched glad to hear

that being said bolters are on the menu huh 👀

[magic trout]

Hell yeah
The recoil has changed a lot also the damage, now you can wipe out hordes of elite/experts/specials

[blissful cliff]

I just fully leveled a bolt pistol but....idk if it's because the revolver is too good, but the bolt pistol leaves me wanting :(

[dim goblet]

ohohoho

[winter dock]

Even the high ROF one is good. You gotta run marksman focus, its sooo easy to build up on hordes and then suddenly you tiny little 60 damage recon is chunking crushers for like 200

[dim goblet]

and what stats should i look for on the emperors prefered tool of decimation

[tame lodge]

It's because you're thinking that the Bistol is a revolver

[winter dock]

Finesse bonus is higher, relatively, for low finesse weapons (since high finesse weapons already have alot of finesse)

so marksmans focus is really good on weapons that have terrible base crits, because it gives them strong crits and makes them nutty

[umbral scaffold]

i personallly feel the green version does a better job

[magic trout]

Bolt wespons are very good but damm revolver is superior
Better acuracy, beter ammo economy, better handling, faster reload,

[full nacelle]

the results are in... it is VERY fun

[umbral scaffold]

if you want a better high rof gun run taht or run a colomnus or auot pistol for the rpm

[full nacelle]

I did update the build though

exe stance wasn't really working for me

[blissful cliff]

Oh, should i use it to deal with armor then? I just got back into the game in time for this update and wasn't around to play with the bistol before hand so i have no idea how to build or use it lol.

[tame lodge]

It won't hit as hard as revolver against armor but it's doable

[full nacelle]

the bolt pistol loses to the revolver in every way except one... grenadier builds

[icy orchid]

did they change columnus and vraks Autoguns around or something?

[full nacelle]

lethal proximity also effects grenades so you can make a REALLY strong grenadier bolt pistol build with lethal proximity and run 'n gun

[blissful cliff]

hmm interesting

[full nacelle]

throw massive grenades, sprint around map, ???, profit

[tame lodge]

The only thing revolver is good at is killing which I'm totally ok with
Bolt Pistol brings more utility to the table, stagger, suppression, damage, ammo

[full nacelle]

plus if you use frag grenades for the build, as you should, they'll soften up the big targets for you to oneshot while you're running around with your bolt pistol

[icy orchid]

why did they change the name on the mk5 autogun?

[umbral scaffold]

They changed names for all guns

[full nacelle]

vigilant autoguns 🤢

[blissful cliff]

It's very confusing lmao

[full nacelle]

headhunter autoguns

[tame lodge]

It is confusing for now

Can't believe they renamed the Lawby to Zarona

[full nacelle]

yeah that one hurts me

as a lawbringer user

[winter dock]

Same

The renaming was entirely unneeded

[golden fox]

Well, after some thinking, I'm considering going from the first to the second. It feels a bit odd to not take a keystone, but this does still hit almost all the important headshot breakpoints as before.

The losses are that dreg ragers are take three headshots rather than the two it took with full marksman stacks (but in practice, two was difficult enough that I didn't try it that often - the MkVII's maniac damage has generally been one of its weakpoints), reapers are five headshots rather than four (ghost means that's not a big problem as far as taking damage, but it is significant in meaning more reloading against a group), and hounds now can't be headshot in one (but a single extra body hit is enough).

Obviously slower reloads, but in theory I can keep the group's toughness up a lot more - and I figured as I was already down that arm, Iron Will was probably better than a fixed +10% Toughness Damage resist. (Presumably particularly so when in gold toughess).

[full nacelle]

not taking a keystone just feels weird to me and I will never get over it

something about it just hurts me on a spiritual level

[icy orchid]

???what are those builds. Take Reciprocity ????

[golden fox]

Yeah, it seems weird, but... it doesn't actually seem to get me many breakpoints with the MkVII HH autogun.

[low wagon]

anyone maybe has on hand a helbore build (weapon, talents) that's well suited to killing crushers (doesn't have to be perfect circumstances one-shot, just something reliably good)

[icy orchid]

it's called take plasma instead

[full nacelle]

Ooooh you're trying to do a Born Leader build... It's not very good to focus on it with your weapon setup

[golden fox]

Well, I initially wasn't, but I thought it was worth trying.

As I do have toughness regen out the wazoo.

[full nacelle]

Born Leader builds are fun but it's really not made for your setup

I'd do them as separate builds

[golden fox]

Well, if I'm getting down to Tactical Awareness (which people kept insisting on), it's my preferred choice of the three options I can go through.

[full nacelle]

For the Emporer! is great with Voice of Command

it's the default most people take unless you're running infiltrate

[icy orchid]

What build are you trying to go for?

are you trying to do some funny themed build or an meta one?

[full nacelle]

Born Leader needs a specific setup if you want to focus THAT much on it

[golden fox]

It feels underwhelming to me. A fairly small bonus that doesn't last long.

[torn root]

it is

[full nacelle]

It makes a noticeable difference, affects everyone in your group, and is used when everything around you has been stunned

[torn root]

but its a nice travel node

[golden fox]

Whereas I was already running an absolute tonne of toughness regen because I'm an idiot who's not good at blocking hits.

[tall torrent]

Actually no u don’t need 80 cleave target even for sunder lol
At 41% cleave target you already reach >10 energized cleave so sunder gives u >40 to hit 5 crusher/maulers

[full nacelle]

For the Emperor! turns voice of command into a teamwide "beat they ass" button

[tall torrent]

So yes cleave target is total complete dump

[topaz lance]

hehe seems good! So I'm guessing you're using alt fire a lot? How does the ammo pool feel?

[full nacelle]

the problem is that Out for Blood is really only noticeable in melee for toughness regen... and Born Leader only takes a small fraction of that amount for your teammates

since you get more toughness back on melee kills

[golden fox]

While yes, I would like this to be a marksman build, the actual reality is that my melee vs ranged kills with this build often looks like this:

[torn root]

when you realize cleave trarget still affects your damage under sunder effect

that statement becomes so dumb

[golden fox]

Yes, that is almost 500 more melee kills than ranged kills.

[tall torrent]

Cleave target doesn’t affect damage
That’s cleave damage

I don’t recommend dumping cleave damage but cleave target is total complete dump

[full nacelle]

yes! alt fire for most specials but primary fire if I'm up close to elites I can oneshot

[torn root]

read everything in the box for cleave targets

DAMAGE DISTRIBUTION is one of them

sunder doesn't magically ignore that

[full nacelle]

ammo efficiency was surprisingly pretty good! had some tight hallways where I was all over the scoreboard boomsticking everything in sight

[icy orchid]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d1e4e6a-e190-4d83-82a2-935a3a7f7c00/generic-autogunner

Try this

[full nacelle]

including oneshotting reapers

I'll post the updated build in a sec

[tall torrent]

This is worded in a very extra way that basically says “your swing can hit 3.6 ~ 8 enemies”
But this is still misleading because energized attacks have more cleave, 8.5~11.7 in fact

At lowest dump of 60% cleave target u have 10.9 cleave on energized hits

There’s no scenario where cleave target is not dump-worthy

You gain a grand total of 0.8 more cleave (to be 11.7) with 80% cleave target

[full nacelle]

The more important stat would be special/elite kills... Are you playing the special/elite sniper or are you spending your time in melee clearing the horde for your special snipers?

[torn root]

you only apply damage to the enemies you hit right?

like lets follow simple logic real quick

[tall torrent]

After a certain point it drops to minimum cleave damage

[tall torrent]

Yes the simple logic here is that “cleave damage distribution” actually means “your cleave can damage up to 3.6 enemies” which literally means “you have 3.6 cleave”

The actual cleave distribution stuff is cleave damage not cleave target

[sullen scarab]

Does cleave round up or down for targets hit?

[torn root]

down

[sullen scarab]

Ok ty

[tall torrent]

No?

[full nacelle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d1e1d2c-3af0-4ff2-a0a0-d0577e6fb386/boomstick-5

there you go! full Doom Guy boomstick shotgun build

I imagine it would be harder to use on maps with wide sightlines but in the game I just played it worked beautifully

super friggin fun

[tall torrent]

At 10.1 cleave u can still hit another enemy after hitting a 10 mass enemy

[torn root]

if it is 3.6 you do not go through the 4th

same for 10.1

[tall torrent]

Yes but u still hit a 4th

[torn root]

you do not go through the 11th

[torn root]

HITTING AND CLEAVING ARE NOT THE SAME

CLEAQVING IS TO GO THROUGH

[radiant chasm]

No weapon spec to guarantee crit and reload for you?

[torn root]

so yes its down

[tame lodge]

That's not the concept of rounding

[torn root]

10.1 is ONLY 10

[clear mist]

on shock maul what other blessing shoude i have then high voltage?

[tall torrent]

Ok
I’m still right about the cleave target dump stats tho

[radiant chasm]

Skullcrusher

[torn root]

actual clown

[radiant chasm]

Just dump mobility tbh

[full nacelle]

Nope. This is a Both Barrels build focused on keeping the shotgun out and pumping away as much as possible.

[tall torrent]

Nah cleave target genuinely does nothing important for power sword

[full nacelle]

Reloads itself almost instantly

[radiant chasm]

Modern doom juggling vs oldschool doom i guess

[tame lodge]

That's actually Sneaky Cat's title

[tall torrent]

Go look at what cleave damage does

[full nacelle]

Yeah I did a Weapons Specialist version with it and it was... lacking... just felt like a melee build that sometimes busted out a shotgun for things just outside of my range

this one feels so much better

[radiant chasm]

I wouldnt go manstopper then tbh

[full nacelle]

it's an actual shotgun build

[radiant chasm]

Since you can’t guarantee crit, go deathspitter

[full nacelle]

could do that

[radiant chasm]

It’s really not, you can melee, kill 3, swap, fire shotgun, repeat

Or swap swap and melee 3 more to have both barrels loaded

[torn root]

it affects the damage and stun you apply vs the hit mass of a horde

.>

[full nacelle]

yes but having to constantly swap just to shoot out one bullet that might not even kill most targets felt really bad

this build annihilates everything and I don't have to constantly weapon swap

[tall torrent]

Is that not what you were looking for, damage & stagger distribution

[radiant chasm]

There is no reason not to just go a 60% mobility dump in the current system

[tall torrent]

There’s no reason not to go 60% cleave target dump on power sword atm

Regardless of blessing setup

[full nacelle]

the weapons specialist build felt like I was just running a crappy version of a revolver weapon specialist build... this build feels like an actual unique strong shotgun build

much more sexy

[tall torrent]

60% vs 80% cleave target have 0.8 cleave difference on energized hits and don’t change any cleave related breakpoints even for sunder

[radiant chasm]

I mean revolver weapon spec doesn’t blast through an entire section of horde

[tall torrent]

If it changes nothing for sunder it just does not matter

[hearty panther]

the actual dumpstat is always damage because the less damage you do = more time to kill = more time playing game = more game = gamer profit

[torn root]

.8 matters because those deciamls are affected by the rending stat

[full nacelle]

true but that's like building for more horde clear in a horde clear build... if I'm going weapon specialist, my melee weapon is strong and I don't need more horde clear

[torn root]

you wouldnt know that thogh

[hearty panther]

anyone saying anything else is literally stealing out of ur pocket

[tall torrent]

??

[torn root]

the more you cleave the more stagger and damage you can bring over to another target

rending affects stagger values just in case you didnt know that too btw

[radiant chasm]

Isn’t that enough once you start adding in strength no? Tho i guess psword doesn’t get strength cause sunder and bm are rated over slaught and rampage

[hearty panther]

.8 doesn't get you anything

[radiant chasm]

But the meta can change

[tall torrent]

Untrue, cleave stagger & damage falloff is set regardless of total cleave

[hearty panther]

.8 is one extra groaner

[tall torrent]

Exactly

[radiant chasm]

So if the strength blessings become meta again, an extra 0.8 matters

[old quail]

didn't they fix rending applying to impact back in like p13

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t come into play whatsoever

[tall torrent]

It was stagger and fixed already

[torn root]

the more you have on the stat smart ass

.

[tall torrent]

He’s bringing up rending +cleave which was never a thing

[radiant chasm]

Meanwhile, there is basically no possible world where mobility is changed to be an important stat

[golden fox]

On that mission, I was tied for special kills. In others, I'll wipe the floor on taking out specials and gunners. Sometimes I get more ranged kills than melee kills. It varies.

I've generally tried to make the build something where I can be what the team needs me to be, so which categories I'm top in changes from team to team.

... or well, I can be what a competent team needs me to be. I recently got paired with a flamer zealot, surge psyker and assault shotgun vet, so all of them had the effective range of a wet fart but despite repeatedly trying to get them to cover me, none of the twonks would actually keep the melee off me so I could take out the shooters shredding us from out of their range.

[torn root]

if something brittles or applies rending the stagger value is increased by that amount

look at rending and stagger sure its not hard to find

easy look up

[tall torrent]

Having extra cleave target doesn’t make u deal more damage throughout the cleave

[radiant chasm]

My point is still correct

It does nothing now, but it can in the future

If strength aka power blessings become meta again

[tall torrent]

In a generally applicable sense, mobility dump is fine
In power sword’s specific case, there’s nothing better to dump than cleave target

[slow spade]

I forget, does Ranged Damage buff grenades?

[radiant chasm]

Future proofing

Im using the future proof argument

[tall torrent]

That’s what cleave damage does
Just look at this @torn root

[slow spade]

it doesn't appear to in Psycharium but I figured I might as well ask here

[full nacelle]

deathspitter is much better btw, thanks ❤️

[torn root]

hmm so explain what damage distribution is

[radiant chasm]

It does nothing now, it can do something in the future

[tall torrent]

Look at the screenshots above

[torn root]

no

[radiant chasm]

Mobility will never do anything

[torn root]

explain it

[tall torrent]

From top to bottom is cleave damage falloff from 1st target to minimum cleave damage

[torn root]

looks like the numbers were bigger with cleave

[tall torrent]

In the case of 0% cleave damage, both first target and minimum are lower

[old quail]

damage redistrbution is when you take from the rich (the grievously wounded) and give to the poor (stab homeless people)

[torn root]

so im lost now what are you proving?

[tall torrent]

With 80% cleave damage yes the numbers are bigger than 0% cleave damage
Cleave target I purposefully kept at 60% for both because it doesn’t change anything here

[radiant chasm]

Just ignore kuro for a minute

[torn root]

but notice how every number is bigger

what do you mean its not more damage lmao

[radiant chasm]

Cleave targets can matter if strength options become the meta again, that 0.8 is enough to cross the breakpoint with slaught or rampage

[tall torrent]

With cleave damage being changed yea

[full nacelle]

I think just based on your weaponry here it makes sense to lean into special sniping as much as possible with your headhunter. That way you can leave another full on born leader build that will lean into its strengths. Most of them want a gun that has Glory Hunter for even more shared toughness.

[tall torrent]

You were not arguing cleave damage

You were arguing cleave target this entire time

Cleave damage and cleave target are 2 different things

[torn root]

but if you in crease cleave targets to 80 and actually read the damage on the extra targets

its would be more damage

literally

[radiant chasm]

Kuro

[radiant chasm]

Kuro cleave targets doesnt matter

[torn root]

i was never arguing that it does more to the min amount of the cleave value

[radiant chasm]

He is 100% right

[full nacelle]

A born leader headhunter build is just going to be a worse headhunter special sniper and a worse born leader support build. You end up splitting the difference and landing somewhere in the middle. Not that you can't do it, it just doesn't make a lot of sense when you can split the build in two and have two strong specialized builds.

[torn root]

was arguing it does more total damage in a horde

[tall torrent]

This thing u brought up is cleave target (how much u cleave)
What I showed is cleave damage (how much damage & stagger get distributed through cleave)

[torn root]

which it literally does

[old quail]

https://tenor.com/view/true-successfully-deployed-get-this-man-a-true-true-morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-gif-17551062976351461149

[radiant chasm]

In the current meta with the current meta blessings it doesn’t do anything

[serene bough]

How2build shockmaul

[torn root]

well it literally does

[serene bough]

I feel like I'm not killing things fast enough

[torn root]

its not as important as other things

but it literally does something

we arent gunna sit here and act like it doesnt

[radiant chasm]

Only if you have slaught or rampage

Neither of which are meta

[full nacelle]

I'm running my autopistol build to get my autopistol mastery up

[radiant chasm]

Im on your side but you need to change position with new information

[torn root]

in the current meta for Psword ppl are dumping mobility because carrying over some damage with Psword matters more than ebing able to dodge an extra .5 meters

[full nacelle]

sorry if you get me in your auric games

[tall torrent]

Ok lemme show u 60% vs 80% cleave target, same 80% cleave damage

10.9 cleave is 60% cleave target
11.7 cleave is 80% cleave target

[torn root]

PSword already has shit mobility and 80% isnt doing too much

[tall torrent]

Read this

See how the damage literally does not change

[golden fox]

Well, I feel like it's worth trying, because to be honest, I very often do have to spend a lot of time in melee.

Maybe with a better co-ordinated team I'd have more option to sit back a bit and pick off enemies, but when playing with randoms you're often in circumstances like "well, no-one else is dealing with this horde, I guess I have to".

[torn root]

if you are calculating 11.7 cleave then the 11th would have to be taken into account as to how much damage it took

[golden fox]

We'll see, I guess.

[tall torrent]

No because after the 8th target you’ve hit cleave minimum damage at 39.56
For every more target u hit after 8th, they’ll all be dealt 39.56 damage
Cleave target does not change this whatsoever

[torn root]

adding a variable and not taking it into account is kinda dumb

[full nacelle]

well in that case you're probably not getting a lot out of born leader either if your teammates are leaving you to deal with it

[radiant chasm]

The sane argument is that the blessing and talents can change and give veteran strength bonuses that would make the 0.8 more impactful

[golden fox]

Oh, the problem is usually that we're in the middle of it.

[radiant chasm]

But right now with both bm and sunder, cleave targets doesnt matter

[torn root]

that damage adds rending if you have it tho, or brittle to be direct which does matter because onslaught is a thing

[radiant chasm]

I would dump mobility for future proofing, not because of current cleave targets

[golden fox]

I'm not sure how it's calculated, but one stat I frequently top out in is coherency efficiency.

[radiant chasm]

How are you adding brittle?

[golden fox]

So I try to keep together.

[radiant chasm]

And rending is a self calculated buff

[torn root]

this node exists

[tall torrent]

Rending & brittleness don’t work on unarmored
And neither of these change cleave damage distribution

[torn root]

UNARMORED ARE NOT THE ONLY ENEMIES

[full nacelle]

well good luck and godspeed... if you want to see my born leader build sometime I'll pass it your way

[tall torrent]

Read the second sentence

[full nacelle]

does a lot better with Gloryhunter

[torn root]

aint no body was concerned about your tunneling

you were talking about that shit not me

[tall torrent]

You don’t gotta be throwing insults here
I’ve been proving to u that cleave targets is dump

[radiant chasm]

2.5% brittleness is literally nothing especially when you dont cross a cleave bp

[torn root]

you got absorbed in your own shit im stalking about this from the saime stand point as before

[golden fox]

I think a lot of my builds end up as "herding cats" builds.

[torn root]

its not nothing into mixed hordes

[radiant chasm]

It is

[golden fox]

Where I'm trying to do whatever the rest of the team aren't doing.

[radiant chasm]

Power sword has great adms when activated

[full nacelle]

honestly that born leader build is too selfless if anything

[tall torrent]

Rending & brittleness don’t change cleave damage distribution because
Cleave damage works by having a separate attack damage profile for every target (maintains same Armor damage modifier)
If the base armor damage modifier is >1, rending is minuscule

[full nacelle]

you're putting a lot of your points into helping your crap teammates get an extra 1% toughness

[tame lodge]

Doesn't Onslaught only apply brittleness for one enemy?

[torn root]

never said it changed the distribution not once

[tall torrent]

Yes

[radiant chasm]

2.5% brittleness is going to be instantly cut into 1/4th vs everything but cara

Im psurr

[tall torrent]

Idk what you’re talking abt here then

[golden fox]

I really wish DT was better about letting you coordinate with randoms.

[torn root]

yeah where did i type btirrleness affect distribution?

or can you not read?

[radiant chasm]

Dying on a hill

It’s not meaningful

Objectively

[tall torrent]

I think I’ve already laid out everything about why cleave target doesn’t matter here

[radiant chasm]

Using BM or sunder, cleave targets wont do anything in your game realistically

[torn root]

defending myself from ppl lying about what i said is a hill i will die on

[golden fox]

"We are about to put you in this team, would you like to pick a build?"

Rather than

"Better hit the ground running, motherfragger, we're throwing you into a team, and we're not telling you what it is!"

[radiant chasm]

Nah you aren’t even listening to people like me who are half agreeing with you

[tall torrent]

I’ve already laid out everything about cleave targets and why it doesn’t matter

[radiant chasm]

You are just a stubborn fool making a clown of themself

[torn root]

you literally just responded to me responding to someone claiming i said something i didnt

[tall torrent]

We can take this to dm
@torn root

[torn root]

if you are going to do it actually do so to something that makes sense

[tall torrent]

I have nothing against u

I just want to show u

[torn root]

im stubborn for not agreeing to dump something over mobility when im sure you called mobility a dump as well

[tall torrent]

I said it depends on weapon

[torn root]

not you

[tall torrent]

Well that other guy idk where he is

I think

[torn root]

this shit

[radiant chasm]

Yes you are, the future proofing/meta fluctuation argument is more logical

[radiant chasm]

Yes this shit

I stand by it

But ive changed my reasonings and opinion as i learned new information

[tall torrent]

If you have to get maximum effective cleave target on power sword
@torn root
You should go for:
80% damage, 80% finesse, 65% cleave target (11.1 energized cleave), 80% cleave damage and 75% mobility

That’ll give u the maximum useful cleave at >11

No reason to get above 65%

[full nacelle]

yeah if you could see what your allies builds were and switch yours in the loading screen... that would be great

[tall torrent]

I think 60% cleave target dump is still the ideal

But losing 5% mobility is not a big deal

[serene bough]

i wonder if theres ever been a situation where cleaving 11 vs 10 mobs was the difference between clutching or barely killing then getting smacked and dying

that would be funny

[radiant chasm]

I am not arguing cleave targets is impactful currently, but mobility is unlikely to change meta wise

[tall torrent]

If u haven’t seen that scenario u didn’t play enough (jk)

[radiant chasm]

While strength blessings and talents could happen and the meta could change

[torn root]

every mob that lives or isnt stun legit is a possiblity to fuck up

[serene bough]

true 1k hours are rookie numbers compared to some of you

where's that fellow with 3.5k hours

[radiant chasm]

Where that 0.8 is needed to get to the 12 cleave bp with added strength (formerly power)

[tall torrent]

Tbh
In any weapon with another dump stat, I’d consider max mobility instead

It’s a feel thing if that 2nd dump stat does genuinely nothing useful

[radiant chasm]

Since you literally can’t lose a dodge now i dont see a point to leaving mobility at 80

[cinder wadi]

Sorry if this already common knowledge, but how was exe stance buffed? I hear we can swap to melee and it doesn't dissapear?

[sullen scarab]

What's the lose a dodge thing? I must have missed that.

[tall torrent]

Extra 2% dodge distance isn’t that bad vs ragers
Especially if u have a 2nd dump stat that changes nothing meaningful

[serene bough]

you lose a dodge below a certain threshold (51%)

i.e. if your weapon has 4 dodges but your weapons mobility is below 51% you'll get 3 dodges

[full nacelle]

killing marked targets in melee refreshes it as well and the talent node that refreshed the cooldown is now built into the ability so every exe stance build got a free talent point

[sullen scarab]

ahhhhh ok

I thought it was something else, thank you

[radiant chasm]

Since max potential on weapons is so high, youll never have below 60% in a stat

[serene bough]

i wish stats beyond damage based ones weren't so meaningless

[sullen scarab]

I had this lying around, so basically this is an optimal roll, for now

(I have mobility dump ones as well)

[tall torrent]

Plasma gun

[serene bough]

lols true

[tall torrent]

Yea this is basically power sword godroll

[serene bough]

thats a weapon w/ picky stat requirements

[sullen scarab]

Awesome, ty!

[vestal widget]

whats optimal plasma distribution atm

[full nacelle]

I want you all to judge me

[tall torrent]

The actually hard weapons to roll rn are the ones that want smth other than 4x80+60 lol

[sullen scarab]

I think I'll try running Sunder on it, the mobs feels unmanageable lately with BM.

[vestal widget]

i remember when plasma wanted 73 charge rate

[full nacelle]

Sunder is a godsend

[sullen scarab]

Had this absolute madlad Psyker in a game with me with the best drip

he was spamming the primary attack on his staff at like 3000000 rpm like a dbz character in xenoverse 2

[full nacelle]

ah yes, the Emprah's ballgag

[sullen scarab]

got 1000 kills

[full nacelle]

people use staff primary?!

that's wild

[sullen scarab]

They did some change where you can spam it now at like Columnus IAG speed lol

he got like 891 lessor enemy kills lmao

[blissful cliff]

That with surge blessing i believe

[winter dock]

Jebus

Which stick was he using?

Cuz only the flame has a special primary iirc

[flat pebble]

no one will ever hurt you more than you hurt yourself

[sullen scarab]

Just hte ones that shoot the bolts

which is why I was like wtf

He just spammed the primary attack the entire match, he never used anything else

pewpepwepwepwepwpeepwpwewe

[winter dock]

huh

[sullen scarab]

it was this staff

[radiant chasm]

That’s bannable if they used a macro

[sullen scarab]

pardon my horrible screenshot

[sullen scarab]

I don't think it was a macro, he was just spamming very fast, I may be exagerrating

[blissful cliff]

It's not a macro it's literally surge blessing

[sullen scarab]

yeah that one lmao

[lavish token]

They didn’t

It’s a macro

[radiant chasm]

No there is lol

A couple of bans have been handed out for it

[winter dock]

Oh so the staves are bugged to fire at "however fast you can click"

so some people got the bright idea of macroing a bazillion clicks

[sullen scarab]

maybe it was a macro then lmao

[radiant chasm]

It uses quell cancel at a speed no human can do

[winter dock]

how are they not popping themselves doing that?

[lavish token]

Surge increases the m1 rate but not enough to be fast enough to damage mog

[winter dock]

ohhhh I see

[sullen scarab]

I just remember I haven't seen it before

[lavish token]

Quell cancel

[sullen scarab]

ahhhh

[winter dock]

thats broke af yeh

[sullen scarab]

I see it now, Quell Cancelling

[flat pebble]

u’ve never seen me after a bang energy drink

[radiant chasm]

When she bangs on my energy until i drink

[flat pebble]

300mg of caffeine does something to a man

[radiant chasm]

Dont talk to me i havent had my caffeine

[flat pebble]

Gulag

[sullen scarab]

No wonder

I was thinking that his attack speed was WAY too fast lmao

like a crusher would spawn and it looked like the wrath of GOD was smacking into it

man made the recon lasgun look like a tortoise operating one of those 1800's naval cannons

[flat pebble]

that’s incredibly specific

[radiant chasm]

Cant believe risking your account to abuse a mechanic

[sullen scarab]

Incredibly Specific is something i love to dabble in

yeah and his truelevel was like 963

so risking that account is nuts lmao

*997

[flat pebble]

i bet you’d enjoy Chris fleming

[full nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-lip-bite-emoji-gif-27518891

[sullen scarab]

Time to check him out then!

[full nacelle]

does anyone else use the mod that reveals all the data scanner sites?

I never would but I'm just curious

[serene bough]

i dont use radar type mods

i feel like they're cheating

[full nacelle]

I didn't know there were others

[sullen scarab]

I'm a real man, I run around with the scanner out poking with it madly until something green shows up

[serene bough]

there's always a few people who go back and forth between whether certain mods are cheats or legit

[full nacelle]

some 100% are

[serene bough]

its not a hill i'll die on but certain things like radars or health bars I tend to decline using

[full nacelle]

the game is easy enough it is without them

yeah health bars ruin my immersion and clutter the screen

[sullen scarab]

is there anything to sort the screen by weapon type

i want to die everytime I try to search for a weapon

[full nacelle]

I just am really not a fan of data scanning personally

so if I get stuck with being the one doing the objective

we speedrunning

[serene bough]

no clue i dont use many mods

i have scoreboard and some HUD QoL mods

[sullen scarab]

Although my inventory is becoming more manageable now that I can FINALLY get rid of dupes

[full nacelle]

why did people hang onto so many weapons before?

[radiant chasm]

It’s a line between accessibility and cheating and some mods ride that line

[full nacelle]

I just sold them if I wasn't using them in a build

[torn root]

ppl would roll them for blessing and perk combos, with better base stats

and then others hoarded them for the update

[vestal widget]

ye

[thorn lark]

It is starving for it yeah.

[full nacelle]

I guess I just never saw the point of keeping them once I rolled them

[serene bough]

i dont really mind when people use mods that give explicit advantages because i'll never know if they're using them anyways

[full nacelle]

I'd roll one and sell it or steal blessings

but they never clogged my inventory

[serene bough]

since were all on the same team it doesnt matter much to me

[serene bough]

we also didn't have the option previously to switch between marks

so you needed good stat distribution + right mark + right rating + right perk & blessing distribution for 2 of 4

[torn root]

like im sure a lot of ppl had some crazy high base greys

me included

because that was just what you did back then

get high bases, hope it doesnt brick

when it does we sold

[full nacelle]

I guess I always just did it one grey at a time

if it didn't have good bases I sold it, if it did I tanked it at Hadron and sold it

I got my 12 builds and I'm good

[torn root]

yeah like i said i could only see 2 instances: Hoarding to do a mass dump for crafting, or Hoarding for the update --- I had so many greys i got rid of after i logged back in it was crazy lmao

[stable onyx]

What should I look for as curios ?

[terse gate]

Is ghost or infernus better on heavy las pistol

This is what I managed to roll

Without changes

Just a blue up to orange

[tall torrent]

Cleave target just needs 65%+ at best

[torn root]

actually something i complete neglected to bring up, too hyper focused on what i was typing

[tall torrent]

For >11 cleave

Cleave damage actually changed first target damage in the DT breakpoint calculator

Yea I think cleave target is just permanent dump tbh

It doesn’t change anything meaningful

Even on BM

U can’t send it over 12 cleave to hit 4 Dreg ragers

It was different somehow

[torn root]

but how much does being staggered affect hitmass?

[old prism]

cleave targets > cleave damage in most situations

[tall torrent]

In any case I think
Cleave target dump - always
Cleave damage - not that important with BM

[tall torrent]

Nah this is just not true

[torn root]

11.7 x 1.3 wouldnt matter on a staggered crowd?

[tall torrent]

Stagger still falls off through cleave

It’s hard to quantify without numbers

[old prism]

%20 on cleave damage doesn't chane any breakpoints most of the time

[torn root]

11.7 would go against mass no, so in that instance you could technically get to and through the 12th no?

[tall torrent]

Going from 60% to 80% cleave target changes basically nothing either

[torn root]

cause you are already staggering with the powered up swing

just asking

[old prism]

at least you might get another poxwalker cleave

[tall torrent]

U just need 65% cleave target to get 11.1 cleave to hit a 12th target

[torn root]

worth

[old prism]

that's worth more than marginal damage increase

[torn root]

talking about geting throught the 12th

to hit a 13th even

[tall torrent]

Not possible without +cleave blessings

On a BM build it’s flat out impossible

80% cleave target is 11.7

Ok fair

But that doesn’t need 80% cleave target either

[torn root]

i mean they said stagger was 30% less hit mass no? i could see you getting through to a 1th during your second swing?

[tall torrent]

Wdym 30% less hitmass

[torn root]

this response

[tall torrent]

Idk what that means

[torn root]

to how much hitmass being staggered reduces

[tall torrent]

Staggering an enemy doesn’t reduce ur cleave

[torn root]

increases in this case

they would have less hit mass means your cleave value could go through more

is what im understanding from that

Could*

[tall torrent]

I don’t think that’s a thing

[torn root]

cause hit mass is a value that can be changed

and cleave is a number that is paired against that

[tall torrent]

Afaik there’s no interaction from stagger to cleave

Besides 1 weapon

[old prism]

it is %30

[tall torrent]

I’ll ask ig

[torn root]

Whenever you swing your melee weapon, your character will always try to swing as far as they can, hitting as many enemies as possible. Each time they connect with an enemy, the game checks the weapon's Cleave against the enemy's Mass, plus the Mass of all the enemies that you've already hit on that attack; if the enemy is too big for the attack to cut through, then your melee swing stops with that target.

is copy paste from source

cleave goes against hit mass

if they have 30% less that could mean you could cleave 1 more target possibly

and again

brittle affects that to some extent

the stagger value

because it multiplies values against the target

from what i remembered

[tall torrent]

Brittle doesn’t change stagger

Rending affecting stagger was patched out a while ago

[torn root]

aaah sad

still aside from what they posted technically if you stagger a crowd ---which you will with power sword--- you could cleave up to one more target possibly

assuming the hit mass was lowered enough

i die on my hill

leggo

[tall torrent]

You wanna know what’s the funniest thing they added this patch

Helbore’s hotshot blessing

Passively increases all of your weakspot hits’ cleave

Including melee weapon attacks

By 50%

[torn root]

im just saying if i stun 11 my dude im cleaving

with that info

[ember chasm]

Guys whats the dump stat for power sword?

[torn root]

and if im cleaving im stunning

[tall torrent]

I think this may not even be a bug

That blessing icon shows up all the time

[torn root]

will always do this because i use both

[naive burrow]

Is the pinned guide by hammer still mostly up-to-date?

[tall torrent]

Word file link, kind of
PDF file no

[torn root]

some of use are richer in resources than others, i dont have the capability of doing that 😦 3

[naive burrow]

Good enough, thank you.

[patent slate]

Does raking fire suck?

[frank basin]

You’re rich

[torn root]

share with the rest of the community ....

but how come cleave targets still, wouldnt it still be worth hitting as many targets because even if the damage is small you could stagger because of the powerd up swing?

no

just random querey there

for sunder

oh i mis read

nvm

its what you want not dump we good

is it 10 at 60?

and what if there are bulwarks mixxed in hoards

i still have PTSD

even after the nerfs

[tall torrent]

Cleave through shield, doesn’t damage bulwark

[torn root]

yeah but it can stop on them

means anything on the other side of the sweep doesnt get hit

12.5 hitmass

dont take sunder for the damage

[tall torrent]

@torn root

[torn root]

its for cleaving through everything

[tall torrent]

No, sunder goes through carapace

[torn root]

they said it 3x your cleave

[tame lodge]

Yes and no

[torn root]

so i mean at 30 cleave you still could be stopped

[tall torrent]

It’s not 3x, it’s 4x

[torn root]

by like 2 bulwarks in the path fo your swing

[ember chasm]

@formal lake good or bad?

[tall torrent]

It works by having a x0.25 multiplier to enemies’ mass

Fo that’s effectively x4

[torn root]

then 3 could stop it and thats still something you see in auric

[old prism]

huh good to know thought it was 30% on all stagger

[ember chasm]

whats more important for power sword mobility or cleave?

[frank basin]

Mobility when you use infiltration

[tall torrent]

4 would stop it yea

[frank basin]

Gotta go fast

[tall torrent]

But like
U normally don’t want to nonstop swing at bulwark shields

[torn root]

yeah see im taking sunder not for the damage never

its just for saftey because hitting enemies with the power charge staggers them

[tall torrent]

Sunder’s best use case is vs ragers & maulers

[torn root]

the more i stagger the safer i am

[frank basin]

I have thrust and powrcycler

[torn root]

very paranoid vet

[full nacelle]

does anyone know if there's an addon for the scoreboard mod that sees how much damage you've increased for you and your teammates?

[torn root]

and the cleave damage is for BP on chaff

[full nacelle]

I doubt it but it'd be very nice for my full damage buff build

[torn root]

so this is why i would vote to dump mobility

[west arch]

What's the dump stat on a revolver?

[frank basin]

Mobility

[west arch]

Thank ya!

[frank basin]

Again most weapon dumpstats is mobility

[torn root]

wont lie finding out sunder was stronger than i thought only makes me not want to use BM

lmao

[frank basin]

Literally mobility

[torn root]

i have a gun for damage

and the sword still 2 hit combos crushers

[full nacelle]

I use sword for horde clear

hence sunder

[torn root]

yeah sunder is just so when you are getting swarmed you can stun shit

imo

it does but i got a gun

its just for CC

and the PSword 2 shots all elites in game with it regardless

[full nacelle]

most trash dies in one or two hits anyway with psword

[frank basin]

So thrust is decent?

[full nacelle]

you take sunder if you want an easy horde clear weapon that can also 1-2 shot carapace

you take BM if you want to chop off 5 rager heads in one hit

[torn root]

like when it could still do that and keep me safe from being swarmed i think that is just really good

[torn root]

this

well it again doesnt clear haords fast

just stops em from bumb rushing you

[full nacelle]

sunder is better in any situation when you have a big mob and any kind of carapace or extreme amounts of hit mass

you're not going to hit every head with BM

[torn root]

have gun for elites

[full nacelle]

it's the better mob blessing

[torn root]

can kill one with sword and alternate

[full nacelle]

oh yeah if you're running Columnus you don't need anything else

[torn root]

^

[full nacelle]

that gun is a oneman army lol

[torn root]

i still like BM tho

[frank basin]

Going dueling sword with rending strike

[full nacelle]

yep totally fair

BM is good, Sunder is good

[torn root]

''the can opener''

[full nacelle]

personally I'm running an autopistol build right now

[torn root]

funny thing is im also using focus target

just only ever need it for stamina tho

[full nacelle]

oh you melting

[torn root]

15 stamina bars lmao

all for deadshot

[full nacelle]

I should take focus target for my columnus build

but I already use it for 6 of my other builds

so I take Marksman's Focus to nerf myself

lul

[tall torrent]

Run 5% crit chance perk & talent + reciprocity
Trust

[torn root]

idk about 5% crit

[tall torrent]

Trust me

Due to how crit strings work

Having that +10% from perk + talent

[torn root]

with deadshot you get free crit string no? feels like it

[tall torrent]

Gives u 31% crit rate without any reciprocity uptime

[full nacelle]

I purposefully make my columnus build "bad" to make up for the fact that I'm running the Columnus

[tall torrent]

Nah u don’t need deadshot

[torn root]

yeah but im not using 5% crit lmao

[tall torrent]

Better to run health & toughness curios and make up for crit chance without draining stamina

[torn root]

25% carapace 25% flak

i want shit out of my face

[full nacelle]

also I'm usually not in close range enough with the columnus to proc reciprocity consistently

[torn root]

crit or otherwise

[tall torrent]

5% crit, flak
Dum dum + deathspitter

Trust

[torn root]

i just deleted crusher with dumdum sustained fire lmao

[full nacelle]

I still can't believe the columnus hasn't been nerfed

[torn root]

in literally 2 bursts

[full nacelle]

who tested that gun and said "yeah, that's balanced"?

[torn root]

i dont really like death spitter

[full nacelle]

when?

this patch?

[tall torrent]

Crit string nerf

It’s 3

4 to 3

Not a big deal

[full nacelle]

yeah...

[tall torrent]

Dropped by like 7.5% crit rate

[full nacelle]

still absolutely top tier

[tall torrent]

U still get 31% from perk + talent
And reciprocity sends it pretty high

[lavish token]

Pls complain on forums so they revert this horrific naming change

[torn root]

+5% from perk and reciprocity is only 15% crit on 1 stack

dont you have to dodge a lot to to stack?

[tall torrent]

Due to how crit strings work, calculating effective crit rate is more practical

[torn root]

why not just ads for 1 second and get the free +25%?

look how fast the crusher died

both are 25%

[full nacelle]

I dunno man. I use reciprocity and it's nice af but I can't proc it THAT often.

[torn root]

^

i tried reciprocity 1st in this build

[full nacelle]

gotta be in range of getting my cheeks clapped and hope a bunch of things all try to hit me at the same time

[tall torrent]

They changed how or stacks from shooters

[torn root]

not with the 5% perk

but deadshot is just aim and shoot

[tall torrent]

U should still have 5% perk + talent at base

[torn root]

done and done

[tall torrent]

Reciprocity is just add on imo

[full nacelle]

oh really? interesting

I remember watching one of my games back and it was just going up and for from like 0 to 1 to 3

[torn root]

liek i would take it, but not over deadshot

idk

[full nacelle]

yeah I prefer the consistency of deadshot personally

[torn root]

the 5% i could probably replace flak with

[tall torrent]

Tbh
Deadshot is copium incarnate imo

[full nacelle]

and take both if you're crazy

[torn root]

i dont need flak

[wise fossil]

So the Bolter bullet hitbox is HUGE now lol

[tall torrent]

Nah, do 5% crit chance + flak

[torn root]

no carapace stay on

[wise fossil]

Bolters got buffed so much it's basically cheating

[torn root]

i hate crushers

with a passion

[tall torrent]

U have a power sword

[full nacelle]

deadshot is great now with all the stamina regen passives

you barely have to manage it on most guns

[torn root]

i have 15 stamina bars with duck and dive and target down

[hollow ibex]

bigger than revolver? i haven't tried the new and improved bolter yet lol

[torn root]

literally always topped off on stamina

[wise fossil]

actually goofy af

[tall torrent]

It’s Voidstrike tier hitbox

[terse gate]

Anyone have any good Las pistol builds

[hollow ibex]

oh ok that's massive

[terse gate]

haven't played in a while so idk if much has changed

[torn root]

i believe i am the only one who will kill specials and elites in my games, so i just take 2 weapons to do it

faithless

[tall torrent]

Have u considered Rashad

[torn root]

yes

but its not maxed yet

[tall torrent]

Actually if u really specifically wants to kill crushers
Run duelling sword lmao

2 tap crusher easily without carapace perk

[torn root]

imma need to see that

fr?

[tall torrent]

And u can keep ~65% crit chance in combat on it with riposte

I run uncanny + riposte

[torn root]

but that is with desperado i am assuming?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[torn root]

maybe weapon spec too

[tall torrent]

Nah u don’t need

I don’t even run atk speed on duelling sword

[torn root]

if i went desperado i wouldnt be able to go columnus

[tall torrent]

What does ur tree look like

[torn root]

degen but i just like deleting shit on my screen

[tall torrent]

Ok first off drop longshot

Longshot is ass now don’t ever bother

U get +0.6% damage at 13m

[torn root]

its only there because i couldnt decide where to put the extra point, my skill tree got reset

[toxic leaf]

exhilarating is good for ranged builds though

[wise fossil]

I got it to work if I jumped a little XD

[torn root]

would have to keep longshot for that

lmao

[tall torrent]

I also don’t think u need survivalist or deadshot tbh

[wise fossil]

okay actually you can, yeah. Aim above the head with bolter and you can hit

[torn root]

deadshot is how i deleted the crusher

lmao

[toxic leaf]

yea its like how ogryn needs furious to get to best defense

[torn root]

trust i have tried everything to get that ttk with columnus

[pearl sapphire]

Best vet combo is devils claw sword and bolt pistol, trust

[torn root]

its like 1.2 seconds

and it could be shorter with lucky crits

[toxic leaf]

exhilarating is just so good though, 30% tdr?

[tall torrent]

Try this tbh

Since u want to keep rending for autogun

[pearl sapphire]

Don’t use the colomnus, use the bolt pistol

Trust

[toxic leaf]

someone said recon > columnus iag, is that right?

[torn root]

FFFFFFUCK NO!

[full nacelle]

yeah... between tunnel vision now giving stamina on kill and Target Down! we're good on stamina... Deadshot is actually pretty awesome on most builds

[pearl sapphire]

They meant bolt pistol

[tall torrent]

Actually kind of depends

[ancient raptor]

bolt pistol is hella good guys daym

[toxic leaf]

holy fuck thats how the vraks single shot vet in my group the other day was deleting a pack of bulwarks without kraks

TIL

[pearl sapphire]

Yes

I should change my name to bolt pistol advocate

[ancient raptor]

2 shots almost everything + fast realod

[pearl sapphire]

Exactly

And style factor

[wise fossil]

They're probably pretty close after the buffs. IAG probably better, but Shock Trooper lets you legitimately ignore ammo as a mechanic, so that's fun

[torn root]

i still havent seen someone kill a crusher faster with a diff gun

[toxic leaf]

which recon, all or specific model?

[torn root]

i just think its funny watching my stamina burn as i fire, just to shoot right back up

[tall torrent]

XII

[toxic leaf]

in old terms

[pearl sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/commissar-warhammer40k-imperium-of-man-imperial-guard-40k-gif-15890262

Me fr

[tall torrent]

VId

[torn root]

bout to be me on zealot

[tall torrent]

Why don’t u use marksman’s focus then

[pearl sapphire]

No, play vet with mk iv chainsword for clear and bolt pistol for range

[hearty panther]

yall gotta try recon 7a with perils cleave on Psyker if you havent yet. absolutely hilarious on the train map too

[torn root]

requires kills, means no crazy damage when fighting bosses

[tall torrent]

Take camouflage and tunnel vision

[torn root]

point is to take IAG 5 and hit the delete button

would tell you to try it

but idk if you'd be willing lmao

[tall torrent]

Ik how strong mk5 autogun is

[torn root]

untill i see someone delete a crusher faster idk what im willing to try

the desperado with the new sword ill try tho

[pearl sapphire]

What do y’all think is the best melee weapon for veteran? Imo it’s between the chainswords and the devils claw swords

[tall torrent]

Duelling sword & knife

[flat pebble]

this little unheard of gem called the mkv iag

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1287239772213088327/Recon_VId_vs_Crusher_ES.mp4?ex=66f964b5&is=66f81335&hm=6541cc1ea694f78404a792264719ebd6af4496947a2bffd2d62558d6363194e9&

@torn root

[torn root]

also i would lose monstrosity and ogryn damage, rending as well

[tall torrent]

Duelling sword:

[torn root]

maybe even iron will

o with dueling sword

hmm

i could

[hearty panther]

feck smite

[pearl sapphire]

Just use bolt pistol

Easy

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1289311863732965520/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_Screenshot_2024.09.27_-_15.43.34.58.png?ex=66f9057e&is=66f7b3fe&hm=44d98adc6dc9adeb4790419c6d1ea3b823a2dfc065ce373bf35f4c4dc56f6368&

[torn root]

bet i beat it with the same ability tho

lmao

[tall torrent]

Nah u’d reload

[hearty panther]

idc if its good, its smite 😦

[pearl sapphire]

BP >

[hollow ibex]

Damn what a comeback for recon

[torn root]

actually are you using a mod i cant eveng et them to spawn that fast

mods are crashing me atm lmao

das what im sayin

[pearl sapphire]

I will start a crusade in the name of the bolt pistol

[torn root]

and still VoC over executioners

deleted the ogryn with no abilities

lmao

[torn root]

responding to this one

would like to just see the 1 kill

[pearl sapphire]

The only reason I use VoC is because I just bumrush into hordes to revive with the shout

[torn root]

actually yeah this is similar ttk

not faster, but you can also reload

[flat pebble]

how are you only lvl 500ish

[wise fossil]

Yeah I just tried it with Recon and it works

[tall torrent]

Creature spawner

[flat pebble]

oh ok that makes more sense

[torn root]

only issue is if i took this no focus target 😦

[flat pebble]

i figured it was either old or something about not getting exp from solos or something

[torn root]

cause i 100% would take shock trooper

[hollow ibex]

whats number 1?

[tall torrent]

Recon doesn’t need focus target

[flat pebble]

zarona probably

[torn root]

I need it

[idle swallow]

laspistols didn't get any changes right?

[torn root]

🙂

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668420727443030038/1289409164921274368/Screenshot_2024-09-27_221058.png?ex=66f9601c&is=66f80e9c&hm=1eb024dd1b7a789f5849cc4f4613f41c946ca46acbba9e7665b5e0c940d1504c&

[tall torrent]

Got 2 new blessings but both are ass

Desperado is a maybe (?) for mk10 laspistol