veteran-class

[pastel yew]

who wants to do that ;-;

also if the m1 becomes

[tall torrent]

Surge is the best m1 spam staff

[pastel yew]

more viable than the m2

[tall torrent]

Psyker has the best ranged suppression

[pastel yew]

god that should not be how it works thats the ogryns job

so much about this game makes me just think WHYYY

[tall torrent]

Nah Ogryns have Karsolas they do enough already

[pastel yew]

either way like

even if m1 was the best thing in the game

[bleak jackal]

slaughterer or brutal momentum on PS?

[pastel yew]

its boring as hell

[tall torrent]

BM

[pastel yew]

all the flavour is on the m2

[umbral scaffold]

Fianlly good fucking plasma blessings

[pastel yew]

you're trippin

it already had... some... good blessings

it just didnt need them

[umbral scaffold]

Abd ive been maining plasma this whole time i know

[tall torrent]

I’m gonna see where glory + leak takes me

[tame lodge]

Well I'll be charging shots
Maybe it'll work this time

[tall torrent]

I believe

[umbral scaffold]

Glory is ok

[pastel yew]

glory is BiS imo

[tall torrent]

Glory is good

[umbral scaffold]

Tbh the rest is nichr at best?

[tall torrent]

Because ur meant to build for 1 taps

And glory makes ur 1 taps keep urself invincible

[pastel yew]

thats most weapons

some weapons have literally two must picks

and nothing else

I think that unironically a lot of the blessings are designed to be shit

to add to the lootbox crafting element

[rigid wadi]

no blessing is a must pick

[tall torrent]

Man I’m so excited for next patch

20 days to go

[pastel yew]

I do not agree

at all

[tall torrent]

Brutal momentum on combat axe

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah. But its been with plasma that had my head scratching the lingest to find something else even worth it to go along side glory

[pastel yew]

power cycler on the power sword?

[rigid wadi]

you can play without it

its just much harder

[tame lodge]

Skullcrusher

[pastel yew]

you can play without it

but your weapon will be dogshit

no brutal momentum on the combat axe feels awful

[rigid wadi]

yes but it is possible

[pastel yew]

its also possible for me to play

with grey weapons

no skills

that is not going to be viable to most players

I dont really agree with the argument

though if you want we can avoid the semantics and I can word it as "most weapons have two blessings that function and actually do something, and then a load that have token benefits or do nothing to increase the strength of your weapon"

brutal momentum being both better cleave, and an increase to damage will never not be silly

[tall torrent]

Who drew this

[pastel yew]

are there any weapons with brutal momentum where

its not just one of the must picks

[tall torrent]

Tac axe

[serene bough]

why is he happy

[pastel yew]

aaaaaaah that makes sense

though honestly the tac axe feels terrible anyway to me

not power wise

just

I hate spam clicky melee weapons

[tall torrent]

Maybe it’ll be good after the patch

[pastel yew]

darktide still has no accessability features for such things

[tall torrent]

They basically gave it infinite dodges

And a blessing that says “decimator but it doesn’t suck”

[pastel yew]

infinite dodge is nice but at the same time its not really that hard to get your dodges back

outside of really low dodge count weapons

[tall torrent]

[pastel yew]

a patch touching on this stuff would be nice

keep swinging and fullauto are like

essential mods to many

[tall torrent]

I wish tac axes did better vs elite hordes

And carapace

[pastel yew]

seen plenty people drop to groaner hordes even in damnation+

think that

for some thats probably a very nice feature

xd

I'm thinking like

what melee options are we missing from the game

what is a niche that isnt filled by current roster

outside of just cosmetic differences like a powerfist vs thunder hammer which are pretty much going to function identically

we dont have any human shield options like in vermintide yet

[terse idol]

They're like going down to pox buffed groaners

[pastel yew]

surprised that neither of the new shock mauls got a shield variant

[terse idol]

Or well eh sometimes you take a slap

[lyric dock]

Duel las pistols. 1 for each hand

[pastel yew]

A POLEARM WOULD BE SO GOOD

[terse idol]

Spear and shield

[tall torrent]

Throwing hands

[terse idol]

WHERE IS THE SHIELD

[tall torrent]

And some sort of spear

[pastel yew]

for the ogryn that would be hilalrious

[terse idol]

[pastel yew]

more melee weapons with range would be nice

I know psykers have been crying for a 2h force sword forever which is valid

[terse idol]

I would hope they eventually add in a mace and flail

for zealot

[tall torrent]

We need more 2-handed weapons

Glaive
Spear
Halberd

Scythe even?

[pastel yew]

wasnt one of the main draws for the flail that it was good into shields?

I didnt play much vermintide

[terse idol]

Oh yeah

[pastel yew]

we should get some scrubbies with shields

in darktide

[terse idol]

Charged flail attacks kinda did something

[umbral scaffold]

I just liked spinning it

[terse idol]

I forgot however

[pastel yew]

based, its the little things

[tame lodge]

"The emperor guides my hand"

[tall torrent]

Power fist

[pastel yew]

. . .

seems psyker getting

some nice things too?

a lot of melee support

[tall torrent]

This is basically just for guns & illisi

[pastel yew]

mhm

[tall torrent]

Also malefic momentum

Now works like agile engagement

It buffs both warp and non-warp damage

Up to 20% each

And lasts 8s

It’s a lot of damage for free

[tame lodge]

Illisi can use both

[pastel yew]

how does skirmisher actually work I've never used this before

when you lose your stacks

[tame lodge]

Illisi still winning

[pastel yew]

after the duration

do you lose all stacks>

I'd imagine so but just checking

[tall torrent]

Get 1 stack of +5% damage every second spent sprinting

[pastel yew]

mhm

but after 5s they all get gone

[tall torrent]

It starts ticking down the moment u stop sprinting

8s is more lenient

Could be fun with knife

10% atk speed still better tho

[pastel yew]

for sure

that whole area of the tree is pretty messy

[tall torrent]

I think now that psyker can get +10% melee atk speed, illisi would be outclassed by stuff like Rashad

[pastel yew]

it feels so troll

like the other paths you just sorta get to choose what you want when you want

whereas the right side although it has insane bonusses

[gray finch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/990131116910465024/1281712857330749571/ife98gmyu3nd1.png?ex=66dcb79e&is=66db661e&hm=09da657d43c75cb1b18161cede594e9999e11e7fbf147c2dd3448a98a9f688d5&

[pastel yew]

you're locked in down certain paths

[tame lodge]

And heavy swords when it comes to horde

[serene bough]

sir, i think your space marine is broken

[tall torrent]

Yea

I’m prob gonna run Rashad vet, crucis zealot and Rashad psyker

Rly want to try crucis after buff

[pastel yew]

I wonder what the general pox clear speed will be like for vet

with the ds

[tame lodge]

I'm going meme with Piety Chained Deathblow Perfect Strike zealot

[pastel yew]

since thats a pain point on psyker but vet does a significant amount more damage

[tall torrent]

Not good

[pastel yew]

not great sure but how not good

because its effectively useless at horde clear for psyker

[tall torrent]

It’s 20s+ for 50 pox

It’s bad straight up

It’s like

Ogryn bully club tier

And bully club doesn’t even do damage past 3rd target

[tame lodge]

Push Attack on the DS4 has better cleave damage distribution

Weird angle and not as fast as lights though

[tall torrent]

It’s still overall pretty slow

It’s a one trick single target weapon

[pastel yew]

it is weird that they have such insane stam regen but not as many ways to effectively use it

like vet does

[tall torrent]

They have infinite sprint & slide

[pastel yew]

mhm which is definitely good

but like

[tall torrent]

So they never need sprint efficiency

[pastel yew]

even vet with 1 stam node is effectively infinite

whereas vet gets deadshot and such

[tall torrent]

I skip stam regen delay nodes on veteran unless I’m playing knife

[pastel yew]

I used to but

[tame lodge]

It definitely has bad cleave damage distribution

[pastel yew]

honestly I kinda like having 1

if I'm running the mk6

otherwise skip

since most of what I use the mk6 for is the op push attack combo

[tall torrent]

It’s a good feel thing

But with 3x sprint efficiency u kinda just don’t need it most of the time

[pastel yew]

mhm but I'm not taking the stam regen for sprinting ;p

I'm taking it for push attacks and for deadshot

[tall torrent]

I’m excited for boltpistol buff

[pastel yew]

my current favourite vet build relies on it pretty heavily to make the bolt pistol

not feel weird

and yeah it getting cleave is sorta cool

how does cleave extend to wall pen? because that just seems to be a trait some weapons have which sucks

[tame lodge]

Uh, hard to say

[pastel yew]

different parts of the tree right?

also its active on demand

as opposed to needing conditions to set it up

when you're using a weapon the needs a crit to make a break point

you cant always have just been dodging

[tall torrent]

Not the same thing

[pastel yew]

sadge

bullet cleave should give wall pen though

[tall torrent]

Cleave doesn’t impact wall penetration
Wall penetration is its own thing

[pastel yew]

it makes some weapons so fucking sad

[terse idol]

That would be craaazy

[pastel yew]

the lack of wall pen on the headhunters

annoys me so much

its good

but there are times you walk into a room

having not engaged

[terse idol]

The saddest part would be Ilas would be trashed if bullets had wall cleave

[pastel yew]

also again, its in a different part of the tree

grabbing deadshot for marksman weapons is 0 comittment

[terse idol]

I just don't take deadshot

[pastel yew]

deadshot very good

or

[tall torrent]

With the Boltgun & boltpistol sway reduction

[pastel yew]

its very good for weapons that are aggressively mid and need it

[tall torrent]

I don’t think deadshot will be necessary

[pastel yew]

oooh wait

they're getting a sway reduction?

I missed that on the bp

[tall torrent]

And the best boltpistol build rn doesn’t even need to ADS most of the time

[pastel yew]

as currently bp or exec stance is like

[tall torrent]

From 1.0 to 0.3

Current best boltpistol build is grenadier frag spam

[pastel yew]

a requirement to not feel like you're making love to a cheese grater

[tall torrent]

With Run&gun

[pastel yew]

I mean

current best grenade build is that

if you wanna actually USE the boltpistol its not as good

[tall torrent]

Yea it really just is the best way to use boltpistol atm

[pastel yew]

I do think lethal accurate+surgical deadshot

[terse idol]

I mean I already run headhunter

[pastel yew]

is a very good build

[terse idol]

The stamina is prettyy important least for me

[tall torrent]

Post-patch I don’t think deadshot will be necessary cuz it’s getting a flat -70% sway

[pastel yew]

depends on the headhunter

don't headhunters get lethal accurate too?

and surgical

[tall torrent]

Deadly accurate

[pastel yew]

which lets you hit one shot break points

ah yeah thats the name

too many names

[terse idol]

So you still run like

Surgical + DA

Or HH and DA

[pastel yew]

surgical and deadshot just work

[tame lodge]

I stopped taking aim with the Bistol then I learned that you can shoot faster while aiming

[pastel yew]

its like that extra boost to mean you never have to spend any amount of time ADS to guarantee the crit

though I have recently been running

2-3 stamina curious

I wish stamina regen was % based

it would be so cool

fortunately skills are % stamina

no duck and dive on marksman weapons though right?

duck and dive is the

stamina on missed ranged shots toward you right?

[terse idol]

I just run 1 stamina curio

[pastel yew]

oh I'm tripping

[tall torrent]

I don’t run stamina curios anymore

[pastel yew]

I used to run no stamina curious but like..

[tall torrent]

Sprint efficiency too good

[terse idol]

Like the amount of times I neeeeeeed the extra stamina

[pastel yew]

the more I use them the more I like just having infinite stam for deadshot

the health feels less relevant

[terse idol]

I've also started running sprint eff

[pastel yew]

and theoreticallyI could block longer

I still.. dont block

[tall torrent]

Deadshot is copium incarnate

[pastel yew]

but I could!

[pastel yew]

not gonna deny that

[faint beacon]

I realize locks will be no more

[pastel yew]

its like exec stance to me

[faint beacon]

and I realize I can make my curios actually

really fucking good

[terse idol]

Exe is okie

[pastel yew]

its fine in strength, but where it shines is boosting other weapons

to be as good as

already good weapons xd

[terse idol]

I meeeann

Yah

[faint beacon]

About to be a certified hood classic with the patch note update

[terse idol]

[faint beacon]

relentless being a natural edition

[pastel yew]

though admittedly exec stance is always an improvement

[terse idol]

Free talent node

Les goo

[pastel yew]

exec stance being the only ability in the game where I dont want any of its upgrade nodes

[terse idol]

Any?!

That's crazy

[pastel yew]

why would I

outside of like

[terse idol]

So you can reset the cooldown

[pastel yew]

maybe feeling generous to my team on lights out

[terse idol]

Or well

Extend it

[pastel yew]

yeah in next patch I mean

[terse idol]

Oh

[pastel yew]

the reset cooldown is getting baked into the ability

[terse idol]

I'd take the ogryn reset at minimum

[pastel yew]

I'm looking forward to the next patch causing one of my mods to break in some weird way forcing me to check every single one of them to find out which is crashing me again

[terse idol]

Never the talent to highlight for my allies though

[tall torrent]

I’m so ready to turn this thing into a godroll Rashad next patch

[pastel yew]

honestly the talent to highlight for allies

is so grief

because those are the things you need to kill

[terse idol]

I find it okay

[tame lodge]

Huh

[pastel yew]

and as we've seen with psyker and brain rupture

people love to hard focus glowy things

[terse idol]

Like, if my allies are killing the things I need to kill then I don't need to keep up exe

[pastel yew]

god damn

I wish there was a weapon I loved that much

[terse idol]

Now I will admit

Making a head glow blue

Pretty inticing

[pastel yew]

oh for sure

I'm sorta guilty of it too

its just reflex

[terse idol]

😌

[pastel yew]

see head, click head, they dead

[terse idol]

Neuron activation

[tall torrent]

I have a perfect plasma roll for next patch too

Just gonna do leak + gloryhunter

It’s actual perfect stats

High ammo, 78% damage, 77% SP, 69% thermal

[pastel yew]

no changes to the shredder autopistol is interesting

never used it but, isnt that in a near unusable state currently?

or is that the coolaid people have been serving

[tame lodge]

Has good Maniacs

That's it

[pastel yew]

so trash then

I feel like a lot of weapons wouldnt feel as bad if they just had a lot more ammo

the shotguns in particular

they just feel redundant

they're really not very meaty when it comes to damage currently

increased ammo gives them a niche as a more spammy weapon but

I'm not really sure how you could make them not awful

or redundant is a better word

[terse idol]

Manstopper

[pastel yew]

I would love a world where theres just a normal shotgun, and then the others just used their special ammo

rather than the current system of load one

lawbringer is the uhh

like perfectly level special shot /

[serene bough]

the only time i used shotgun was for the Twins fight

[tame lodge]

Oh uh, the Agri has good suppression on kill with special shot

[terse idol]

Yah the horizon

[serene bough]

since it could easily stagger ragers/maulers

[tame lodge]

Making it perma special would be funny

[pastel yew]

the agri shotgun using only slugs would be so fucking unbelievably cool

I would

main the agri if it did that in a heart beat

[tall torrent]

Also unbelievably busted

[pastel yew]

for sure

but

fuck it

games already fucked

[tall torrent]

Think plasma but high finesse scaling and one taps everything

[pastel yew]

even doing that its not going to be the strongest ranged weapon

which is wild

[tall torrent]

Well yea Zarona is not nerfed

[pastel yew]

just cuck its reload

dont nerf zarona

nerf ws

or change it to not be built around one already s tier weapon

[tall torrent]

I’m happy with the notes we got

Just need the patch to drop

[serene bough]

i think shotguns are always going to inherently suffer

[pastel yew]

I honestly think you could just change the free reload on ws

and itd be fine

keep the guaranteed crit

the free reload has to go

[serene bough]

melee combat is just almost always going to be better at CQC than a shotgun in this game

[pastel yew]

it ranges from pretty decent to literally absurd depending on the weapon

[arctic rampart]

shotguns need to do close range effectiveness against elites strongly more than they do now

[pastel yew]

or maybe make the free reload an increase to reload speed for a number of seconds depending on your stacks

that way when you need to reload the zarona or other low ammo total weapons you cant just melee > q > q > melee > q > q

on poxwalkers

[arctic rampart]

everytime I try the shotguns they're supremely dissapointing. I'd probably rather use a shredder

[pastel yew]

the shotguns arent like

unusably bad

they're a reliable two tap on most things

[terse idol]

Zarona without WS is still

Insane

[pastel yew]

its just they're not great

[pastel yew]

strong but not broken

with ws

its broken

[terse idol]

Hmm

[serene bough]

id argue shotguns are more of a handicap than a boon for your kit

[terse idol]

I dunnooo

[pastel yew]

the thing with the zarona is that it has the best burst and damage

but its limited by ammo

when you have a keystone that removes that limitation

and gives it crit to feed its crit bonus

it gets shot into the stratosphere

[arctic rampart]

meh, fucking revolver in year 40000 nope

[pastel yew]

I think its cool

I'd also love a

[terse idol]

It's cool

[pastel yew]

stub pistol 1911

[arctic rampart]

I just meant for me. It seems strong but I'm biased

[terse idol]

It's basically just one of em, old times weapons

[pastel yew]

it is strong at its specific job yeah

[terse idol]

Like the autopistol

[pastel yew]

its just not a good all rounder weapon

its fine for weapons to be good at specific tasks ig

the zarona also seems better than it is

because it is sorta just good on every class

[gloomy kestrel]

Do bulwarks not stagger from plasma at all anymore?

[pastel yew]

and a requirement on zealot if you run a non armor pen melee

if the zealot had better anti armor options it wouldnt seem as dominant

[arctic rampart]

I kind of liked that fast laspistola and also flamer on my zealot but I haven't played him for months

that laspistol was really good at taking out gunners, and really shit at carapace

[tame lodge]

Not really

[gloomy kestrel]

shame :<

[tame lodge]

You still hurt them

[pastel yew]

laspistol is

very strong

good alrounder weapon

just bad into armor

it was also the best zealot ranged option for a while

[gloomy kestrel]

i just miss them opening up with 1-2 shots so my teammates can finish em

[pastel yew]

in the good ole days when fury gave you ranged pen

[arctic rampart]

I haven't played the zealot since that nerf

[pastel yew]

why would you

just play vet

[arctic rampart]

what else did CarlSagan have to live for but blue stim laspistol ult barrages

[gloomy kestrel]

i want to play my vet more but I wanna use shotguns and they just don't seem to be it..

[pastel yew]

zealot lost so much cool class variety

because of that nerf

which did nothing positive

I'm still tilted about it

[arctic rampart]

thunder hammer might be fun now at least

heard it got buffed but dont know the details

[gloomy kestrel]

its not buffed yet, they shared like 2 pages of patch notes from the itemization update coming later this month

[thorn lark]

perfectly edited

[gloomy kestrel]

actually I'm not 100% clear with how this was worded, are the changes detailed today live?

[somber axle]

Not yet

[fossil basalt]

no, they're out at the end of the month

[somber axle]

September 16 I think it said?

[tame lodge]

26 actually

[somber axle]

There it is

I double checked and was about to correct myself LOL

New Boltgun will be fun to toy with for sure

I'm wondering what the change is for that stagger value thing

They outlined the Bulwark shield thing pretty explicitly

[faint beacon]

Limsplitter chads rise

[thorn lark]

tac axes buffed

we are so saved

[faint beacon]

Buffed Via blessings but its nothing huge minus like

relentless and agile

those

whew

Smacking my lips together cause of how BS they are going to be

[thorn lark]

Not sure about agile

[last parcel]

what about the waterfall blessing

[neon imp]

I'm a little torn on the decision to replace Vanguard. I thought the reduced sprint cost was helpful

[radiant chasm]

It’s not bad if you can hit all your breakpoints with the other blessing

On zealot with good balance and second wind it will be insane even if it isn’t the strongest/best pick just cause it’s on hit lmao

[tall torrent]

Infinite dodge

But it’s like

Whether u get to hit breakpoints without it

[faint beacon]

Honestly it's not half bad and seeing they're lifting locks on Curios also you technically could make it via Stamina Effeciency through curios

I dont mind its change seeing its encourage the WS playstyle even more

but I see the gripe as to why

[fallen plinth]

finally completed this penance, what a terrible key passive

[neon imp]

That's true

[tall torrent]

Build 3x sprint efficiency on curios

The swap speed bonus can be huge for pretty much anything that’s not a revolver

[pseudo fiber]

I'll actual use my 1 extra point on bolter exe stance to grab the faster draw time...

hrm

[faint beacon]

Yeah like its not a terrible change at all seeing 25% swap speed is still pretty fucking huge, IF YOU RUN WS WITH ANYTHING, but still that sprint reduction cost is really nice, it just sucks you have to take up two slots on curios to make up for that lost talent

[tall torrent]

Why do u need it if ur already using exe stance lol

[pseudo fiber]

I like it

[tall torrent]

I think that 25% swap speed is actually enough to push me over to go O4B on most of my builds

Unironically

My top 3 most played guns on veteran are plasma / mk2 laspistol / MG4 infantry lasgun

5% move speed is pretty good for a starting node, and O4B is literally 40% toughness per Rashad swing

[faint beacon]

Honestly O4B might suit for my HHA build as well with this change seeing I run AE as well and the swap speed will help a shit ton

that and me kill me get toughness back

[tall torrent]

Yea but I think post-patch it’ll at least be very close in terms of which starting branch to pick

[sleek garden]

It's fun with a lasgun or autogun

It also helps quite a bit with the lawbringer special

Go with the increased toughness regen modifier and exhilarating takedown

If you can click heads like a machine it's hard for shooter hordes to kill you

[jaunty sphinx]

YEAAAAAAAAAAAA BABEYYYYYY

[wicked zenith]

So prefered blessing on this Reward.

[faint beacon]

Fantastic Question but thats a really good shotgun

Uh shit let me check

No Respite + Deathspitter/Full bore

up to you

cause those perks are perfect

blessings only need to be changed

[tall torrent]

For Kantrael I’d go manstopper + no respite tbh

[last parcel]

embrace flechette to become the DOT legend

[faint beacon]

TRUE

[faint beacon]

Also yeah fair

manstopper is just really good

[orchid hemlock]

is it bad that I am spamming norm dams for farming? 🤔

[faint beacon]

just for mats?

if so not really?

If I want only Mats I just do Damn

I want Ordos and Mats I do AuDamn

maelstrom if I actually want to play the game

[wicked zenith]

I always do Auric for mats. Keeps me better in form, Maelstrom should be for when it is hjard

Bu then I have like 1300 hours or something

[last parcel]

this is even worse than hunting for penances. there will be no trial necessary. you sniveling worm, your grunting ape, you whining dog. an end shall soon be upon you. as we speak, the legions of hades come against you; there will be no mercy, no recompense, and no respite, for your transgressions are beyond forgiveness, and you will answer for them. eternal torment and woe be upon you, lowliest of fools, weakest of men, dirtiest of filth, for oblivion's embrace is beyond you.

[umbral scaffold]

#general-chat message

hey can anyone attest nobdy plays that shit on auric i dont think ive seen anyone do

unironically

thanks for the free build lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847815813300879360/1276072753488855171/smileybeef_-_1824476702992376093.gif

https://tenor.com/view/troll-trolled-trollge-troll-success-gif-22597471

thanks man

i might try it... honestly i odnt know when ill feel like playing darktide maybe sunday probably

[red robin]

damn

i honestly thought i had alot of hours

turns out i just have 531 hrs

bro at 3556 hrs

i respect it

[orchid hemlock]

😔

hmm ive been trying to figure out if infernus+headhunter or dumdum+headhunter is better on the VId 🤔

[heavy rover]

both are good, pretty much down to preference at that rate

[orchid hemlock]

No sorry no preferences allowed here

I need the OBJECTIVE truth 😤

[terse idol]

I thought dumdum was just straight better

[orchid hemlock]

I know dumdum is better on the other recons, but I've heard mixed answers for the VId

[terse idol]

Straight damage vs conditional damage

Hmm

[orchid hemlock]

Yes, but VId attacks soo insanely fast, that it almost feels consistent

When I do tests they all feel identical. Both single and multi target in the Psykanium

The only thing I noticed differently is that Infernus helps stack the brittle of onslaught much faster.

But if you hit multiple enemies with the dot it fucks it over because the dot damage resets the onslaught procs

[wicked zenith]

Well at least they go together.

Scavrat Special

[orchid hemlock]

I thought the point of headhunter wasn't the damage but the ammo synergy with shock trooper

[somber axle]

Dum Dum + Headhunter does better damage at more ranges than Infernus + Headhunter. It's only at very long ranges that Infernus begins to overtake Dum Dum. Infernus dot ticks are a nice bit of damage though so if you get a Recon with Infernus IV and need to change the other blessing/the perks it isn't bricked just because it has Infernus IV. New patch for Unlocked and Loaded is changing interaction of dot effects with Dum Dum. It's a very minor thing but it just means Infernus dot ticks no longer combo with Dum Dum to maintain/stack Dum Dum faster. Infernus still benefits from the Dum Dum damage bonus though

[somber axle]

It is yeah. Headhunter is solid for keeping crit more consistent overall. Azrael is talking about his build maintaining high stacks of Recip to keep crit chance high in combo with a 5% crit talent node and a 5% crit perk on the weapon. If you don't do his build Headhunter has much higher value

[orchid hemlock]

But isn't that conditional to having high stacks of recip?

[somber axle]

If you sacrifice a weapon perk for more crit and your talent build can afford Reciprocity, the 5% crit talent node, Shock Trooper, Rending Strikes and Onslaught you'll have very high crit uptime which gives much lower value on Headhunter

But it is a very specific talent tree

[hot whale]

The guys in the zealot chat r talking about DnD can I come hang with you guys

On what

[somber axle]

It is yeah but it's playstyle specific. If you can stack and maintain Recip then you get lower value out of Headhunter

[hot whale]

I might have to kill you with hammers depending on what you say

[somber axle]

If you don't enjoy Recip then Headhunter is much more valuable

[orchid hemlock]

I ussualy run Recip anyways, but I generally don't stack recip when aiming down sights unless I am being gunned down

[somber axle]

It's really dependent on if you prefer aiming heads to maintain crits through fights or if you prefer getting up close and dodging frequently to maintain Recip stacks

You could do both but then Headhunter has much lower value and isn't worth comboing with Recip

[somber axle]

Yeah that's the playstyle specific thing. You sorta have to shove your way into the frontline and make yourself a target to benefit from it. Something like an Infiltrate with Low Profile build would be a poor combo for that sort of thing

If you're a backline fighter and tend to stick with/behind your squad maintaining stacks gets trickier

The duration is very forgiving though!

8 sec duration is pretty easy for getting and maintaining stacks but if you end up ignored your crit chance suffers

It's really dependent on how you prefer to play tbh

[stable oak]

what constitutes as "close" when thinking blessings

[orchid hemlock]

Recip for me seems to only stack consistently when dodging in melee, not ranged

That being said, I'm actually thinking about replacing fire frenzy on my Collumnus with deathsplitter 🤔

Because if what u say is true about the modifyers, it might be better

[somber axle]

Deathspitter + Dum Dum is definitely more damage but very dependent on other sources of crit to benefit from Shock Trooper so you give up a perk slot on the weapon and have to be able to afford the 5% crit node too. It's also pretty expensive because Recip doesn't feed into Onslaught so you have to spend the extra point going from Close Quarters Kill Zone or Duck and Dive down right tree to Onslaught. It's strong but talent tax pricy and you may or may not be able to afford some of the necessary talent nodes depending on abilities/grenades chosen

If you worm it up even a little you'll have to give up your keystone for sure

Like going from Krak into Surv Aura or Fire Team into Exe Stance

MF + CitA is so so good

Weapon Specialist is funny for attack speed memes with celerity stim

Recon Mk VId go brrrrr

Yeah but what about swapping to melee for fun and juggling stacks because sometimes you want to bury a chainsword in a poxwalker's face

Blender mode chainsword is so fun

The extra melee attack speed feels so good with it just chewing through hordes

[orchid hemlock]

One thing I'm interested in is wondering if dumdum+Infernus is viable then 🤔

[somber axle]

Or rev up for a shredder attack on a charging Mutie for the funny kill after it has dashed past you and dies from the final tick of shredder 10 feet away

[somber axle]

Yes and I do it on my Psyker because setting things on fire is fun LOL

[orchid hemlock]

Well assuming you are killing 5 enemies before you kill the target you are aiming for sure

[somber axle]

Psyker nerf to Mettle is gonna be curious

Can only benefit once per crit attack and no longer procs multiple times if that crit cleaves into additional enemies

[tall torrent]

Toughness gain not nerfed

It’s just move speed stacking

[orchid hemlock]

@tall torrent what do u think in all of this?

[tall torrent]

And psyker buffs are crazy

[orchid hemlock]

I'm trying to build an optimal VId

[somber axle]

I should reread it when I'm not at work but the Psyker changes look SO GOOD

[tall torrent]

I think if ur gonna use recon6d at all u should prob just meme with it and spec ur whole tree for it

It only works proper when u spec entirely for it

U might as well make it as good as possible vs everything

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah but would u use deathsplitter+dumdum

[somber axle]

It works really, really well when you build your talent tree around it though

[orchid hemlock]

The damage does look nice

[tall torrent]

It’s not bad

Because deathspitter is +power which is multiplicative to +damage

[orchid hemlock]

Your guide says headhunter is the best blessing on it

[tall torrent]

Headhunter is alr

I haven’t been updating the WIP guide much

[orchid hemlock]

Unless I am interpreting it wrong on the underline

[tall torrent]

I’ve been playing BM wukong this past few days lol

Haven’t updated guide

Also I’m just holding off till crafting update tbh

[orchid hemlock]

Then what would u consider the best blessings atm for VId?

[tall torrent]

It’s way too big of a patch for me to do anything abt blessings rn

[tall torrent]

Dum dum, headhunter, deathspitter, infernus (kinda)

[orchid hemlock]

I'm confused on what you mean about headhunter not giving you 5% crit

[tall torrent]

Deathspitter is pretty strong rn yea

It’s basically slaughterer but for ur gun

[orchid hemlock]

Oh that reminds me, is firefrenzy or deathsplitter better on the Collumnus now?

[tall torrent]

Deathspitter

Because +power is multiplicative to +damage

[last parcel]

ok so what about on graia iag

[orchid hemlock]

Well that's assuming you have max stacks of recop

It's hard to track it tho

😔

[last parcel]

you just install ovenproofs scorboard plugin or power di

they do it by default

[orchid hemlock]

I don't like power di, the interface is too clunky for me

When I get back home

I'll download the plguin tho

Yes I know how strong it is, but the way I notice how it stacks is you run around meleeing and dodging then when u see an elite u want dead, u switch to your gun and dump the crit onto them. Then rinse and repeat

Now that deathsplitter sounds interesting, is it f viable on the MK 2 then? 🤔

I like how ammo efficient the MK2 is, and it has a faster pullout/reload

Yes I feel like I'm dodging all the time on Vet, that's why I sometimes love any weapon that has ghost 😔😔😔

[proud marsh]

New vet here, the power sword is kinda bad when I use it, yet I see it all the time

what am I doing wrong?

[last parcel]

it needs power cycler 4

[orchid hemlock]

I neve liked powers word myself, but the value of it is how strong it is even without any investment in the talent tree.

It deals with mixed hordes soo well

[proud marsh]

I'm guessing it's something to do with power field duration?

[orchid hemlock]

Every attack should be an empowered one, yes

Only time to use a regular attack is if u see a weakend pox walker

[last parcel]

power cycler means you only have to recharge it every 3 swings instead of every swing

[proud marsh]

Ohh

Makes sense now

[orchid hemlock]

Power cycle means u can swing 2-3 enhanced attacks instead of just one

[proud marsh]

Man, this class is like hard mode

Compared to soyker

[orchid hemlock]

Also BM is very strong on it as well because it increases your headshot damage and finnese

[orchid hemlock]

I thought Vet was easy mode ☠️

[proud marsh]

BM?

[last parcel]

brutal momentum blessing

[orchid hemlock]

U have like 4 ways to reset cc

VOC is arguably the best ability in the game

And it's extremely easy to use and understand how it works

[proud marsh]

Nah bro, I actually have to engage with that game mechanics

[tall torrent]

Vet skill floor is very low, he’s not wrong

[orchid hemlock]

Wait am I not wrong or him?

[tall torrent]

He’s not wrong in saying veteran can be hard

[proud marsh]

VoC is carrying me, but I actually have to aim, and manage ammo and not just sit in the back spamming horde deletion options for 15 minutes.

[tall torrent]

But veteran is also the best class in the game when every other class is top 4

Matter of perspective

[orchid hemlock]

Sure it can be at the highest level, but I feel like it is by default because it's literally the best class in the game

[tall torrent]

Nah by default it’s hard

Think on his behalf, he’s been playing a class that doesn’t need him to aim

And now u put him on a class that expects him to headshot >50% the time

[somber axle]

I still prefer Headhunter + Dum Dum on the Mk II tbh just because I tend to play that variant more like the Infantry Lasguns. Recon Mk VId is its own creature. The Recon Mk VIIa I have is Deathspitter + Dum Dum because I like the extra cleave though

[proud marsh]

Just spamming voidstrike/smite all game means I basically never go down. Literally ez mode.

[orchid hemlock]

Tru, psyker has that initial learning curve, but once you realize you just have infinite cleave on most of the staves u just 😔

[orchid hemlock]

Voids trike and smite? 🗿

[proud marsh]

I am a true soyker, what can I say

[somber axle]

Oh and Psyker staves having no ammo to care about so ammo economy isn't really a thing you worry about unless you go Gunker

[lavish token]

Staffs should be weak

[orchid hemlock]

Why bother smiting, just use the Void lmao

[somber axle]

If you are fresh to Vet and try to use a random gun like a Psyker staff you will probably be orange/red ammo often

[proud marsh]

Even w/ gunker, running CIAG/DS4 means you can delete everything in a few seconds

[proud marsh]

literally me

[orchid hemlock]

So u r saying that Psykers can't aim 😔

[proud marsh]

I was like, "oh shit ammo" almost immediately

[tall torrent]

Partially true yea

[proud marsh]

he's correct

I can't aim

[tall torrent]

Unless u one trick laspistol on psyker u pretty much just don’t need to aim most of the time

[proud marsh]

it's why I gravitated to accatrans and brautos

I wanted to use the bolter but people were like "you actually gotta aim" so I just picked something else

[tall torrent]

Why not learn aim

[terse idol]

It's not thaaat hard

It's just follow up shots that can get abit goofy

[tall torrent]

Also they’re buffing Boltgun & boltpistol next patch to be easier to aim

[orchid hemlock]

Idk Vet comes natural to me and feels like easy mode 🗿

[tall torrent]

If u throw Dreg rager x8 at a new player, they’re pretty much gonna die unless they’re playing psyker

[proud marsh]

With staves, only one requires actually aiming, and the projectile is basically a bowling ball.

Very easy even w/ peril.

[terse idol]

Damn this is the real valid discourse

[tall torrent]

The moment u understand how to do On Overwatch (penance) for veteran properly you have surpassed most players in this game

[last parcel]

aw man but i've been locking people in my basement for saying vet is hard

[oblique totem]

Rude

[proud marsh]

Basically in going from soyker to vet, my active gameplay time has spiked because I have no crutches.

[tall torrent]

That’s fine, when u learn how to play without crutches, you’ll be 10x better when you have ur crutches back

[proud marsh]

I can just spam purgatus through my ogryn and delete hoards without actually playing the game.

Let alone just smiting the whole hoard

Turning the game back to sedition every 15 seconds or so

[still flare]

Before survivalist nerf you used to be able to face roll everything with your ranged weapon, now you have to think a bit more on how to use ammo as well

Arguably not as central to other classes

[terse idol]

Kiiinda

[tough tiger]

?

[terse idol]

I feel like if you're really really conservative you'll still be pretty good on ammo for most but yeah you're right

[tough tiger]

Whar?

[orchid hemlock]

I'm a melee freak tho, I'm a Zealot main 😤

Yes I have Carpal tunnel

[terse idol]

The spike of wrist pain complaints when vet gets dueling sword

😌

[still flare]

Yeah I'll be fine, but Timmy two hands who horde clears with his ranged weapon on the reg eats all the ammo if you aren't careful and can make it a lot less fun lol

I personally can't wait for the heavy sword on vet 🤤 sounds fun

[proud marsh]

Psyker melee is way easier than vet, both with weapon selection and stats.

Can attest lmao

Immediately getting my shit rocked

[still flare]

📝📝 how's that? Sounds nutty

[tall torrent]

Yea next patch veteran comes in 3 flavours

Delete every rager - heavy sword
Delete every crusher - duelling sword
Kill everything - Rashad

[elder fiber]

Can't wait to zealot chastise ds4 h1 to do as much dmg with it as vet will normally

[last parcel]

i choose the "delete yourself" vet by running plasma with both charge blessings

https://tenor.com/view/ied-bike-suicide-bomber-funny-squad-gif-22939223

[tall torrent]

Yea

[elder fiber]

I'm gonna steal medicae from woundkers

[somber axle]

I play Gunker when I want to aim on Psyker but yeah Surge staff is brain off head empty no thoughts mode when I just want to click through enemies without thinking much about it

[orchid hemlock]

I'm a purge enthusiast

😎

And seeing that rending in the next patch makes me excited 😏

[elder fiber]

Dw bad purge players still gonna find a way to kill nothing with it somehow

[radiant chasm]

Tbf ammo refill on crit is just going to cause more players to waste ammo

[orchid hemlock]

Crushers when I blow some hot air on them:

[pseudo fiber]

What was the funny blue recon brittleness build

[elder fiber]

god I just woke up from fucked up sleep schedule and its fully settling in how depressing most of the zealot changes are

crit cdr change is good but most of it is just so shit lmao

[violet badge]

,

[last parcel]

.

[pseudo fiber]

any reason you don't use headhunter?

[frank ether]

I'm hyped

[pseudo fiber]

I see I see I appreciate the answer

I'm too tired to listen to the brrrrttt but I'll give that a proper try tomorrow

[pastel yew]

psyker melee being easier than vet is an interesting take, I feel like even with all things accounted for psykers defence is just generally worse

vet has so much access to free safety

though I guess its build dependent

[pseudo fiber]

But now I've been using lots of Recon I can say yeah it's fun I get the enjoyment.
Still don't like the folding shovels though.

[pastel yew]

folding shovels are just for the big bonk

if you dont like the big bonk

you're not gonna like em

gimick weapon but not terrible

[pseudo fiber]

I do enjoy that but I hit it and the bonk is not as big as desired

[pastel yew]

I think vet can one tap crushers with the bonk

I've not run the numbers myself though

not that keen on the shovels either

[pseudo fiber]

I think I'm missing uncanny on mine it's probably that

I love the standard shovel

[pastel yew]

uncanny is a big draw to any melee weapon

ridiculous blessing

[pseudo fiber]

Yup
I dig running uncanny + decimator on the standard. I know deci isn't desired but I like it

[elder fiber]

nah deci fine on og shovel, it really just needs uncanny

[orchid hemlock]

should I take thrust on my shovel? 🤔

[arctic rampart]

what shovel ?

[elder fiber]

If its folding then yes

Thrust makes it easier to reach iirc but idk I don't mk7 much anymore, just og shovel as comfy spam weapon

[frank ether]

hmm

so executioner has one less mandatory node

[proud marsh]

I might be used to psyker because it's my main class but, dueling and force swords make melee super easy.

Peril blocking by itself is a massive plus

[tall torrent]

they power crept veteran further

[proud marsh]

let alone deimos putting anything on its ass in like 2 hits

[tall torrent]

dw next patch veteran is gonna play duelling sword better than psyker lol

[proud marsh]

I know

I'm actually crying

[tall torrent]

veteran duelling sword can casually 1 tap crusher

[proud marsh]

[pastel yew]

its funny because litearlly the day before all this came out I had said it was silly when someone sugessted removing relentless and having it base kit, literally no point in buying upgrade nodes

[proud marsh]

Please let me cope

[pastel yew]

I mean I dont find melee that challenging to begin with, but psyker has almost half the vets base toughness

and toughness does a lot

[tall torrent]

psyker buff is huge tho

whole tree rework

might be 2nd best class now

[pastel yew]

you dont think they

already were?

who was competing for slot 2

because it definitely was not the zealot

[proud marsh]

Never found it a challenge, peril blocking into vent or quell will either obliterate anything in front of you, or regen your toughness immediately.

[pastel yew]

IMO psyker was already pretty nuts

[tall torrent]

karsolas ogryn prob

[proud marsh]

Gunners and snipers kill me far more than any melee enemy.

[pastel yew]

ogryn I cant comment on

most ogryns I see

do not do well

but equally I dont play ogryn because ogryn is fucking boring

[tall torrent]

karsolas is a pretty insane weapon

[elder fiber]

ogryn is scrubby but has limitations

[tall torrent]

most psykers are also pretty meh it's just that psyker skill floor is actually pretty high

[proud marsh]

ik were getting weapons, but I haven't read the patch notes yet

[tall torrent]

u don't need to be doing a lot of crazy things to delete things as psyker

[tall torrent]

a bunch of new talents added

[frank ether]

psyker and skill floor are funny words but I guess not blowing yourself up is indeed too hard for the average plasma user

this is the same class where I can dumb down the game for a team of 4 btw

[pastel yew]

their potential is huge though

[proud marsh]

Once you learn how to not explode, and do anything other than hurl assail, you're pretty far above most soykers.

[pastel yew]

both gunpsyker and voidstrike are

some of the most insane damage potential builds

[tall torrent]

not as high as vet tho

[elder fiber]

idk psyker skill floor is really all that high, its just easy to get away with being inadequate in areas b/c so much of psyker can just turn off the game

[pastel yew]

nope

but easily second

voidstrike isnt THAT much worse than a plasmagun

[tall torrent]

it's a sidegrade

[proud marsh]

You haven't seen the soykers I've played with.

[pastel yew]

nah the charge time n such make it worse though the trade off is no ammo usage

still absurdly strong

[proud marsh]

escaped zoo chimpanzees

[tall torrent]

but I honestly would recommend karsolas ogryn to anyone who doesn't normally enjoy ogryn

karsolas is ogryn's rashad equivalent and has a fairly interesting moveset

[proud marsh]

honestly, I still prefer voidstrike

no ammo, plus surge?

I'm taking it over p gun

[elder fiber]

trauma gives me long covid

[pastel yew]

my issue with them is more that they dont really have much variety

they have few weapons

and a few of those weapons are not good

[tall torrent]

and most aren't good lol

[pastel yew]

and even then the weapons they do have are usually slightly different from another

their height also makes them feel supper slow

[tall torrent]

did u know that bully clubs can only dmg 3 enemies per swing

[pastel yew]

you had mentioned this earlier and I was shook

[elder fiber]

rn ogryn is heavies dispenser, the krourk mk4 rework was good but its been hella power creeped

[tall torrent]

yea it's just karsolas

but karsolas is actually good

idk what's with the branx copium

[pastel yew]

it feels like most of the time I'm happy to have an ogryn on my team because funny voicelines, and annoyed because they're constantly going to knock over enemies I was about to murder

same with trauma staff on psyker

[elder fiber]

funnnny 1 shot

[pastel yew]

is it strong? absolutely

but I do not want to play with it ever

[elder fiber]

I like boro more than both rn but karsehole is def better

[pastel yew]

honestly like

I'd rather they balance the ogryn so pretty much everything they have is silly strong

because the cost of playing an ogryn is so steep

[tall torrent]

borovian is pretty cool but karsolas is just 1 tier above

[pastel yew]

better that than risk dead options

[elder fiber]

god I double checked and lmao ogryn cleavers aren't getting new blessings

its all ogre with

boro buffs will be nice tho

[tall torrent]

I think most ogryn weapons need more buffs to at least borovian level

[umbral scaffold]

did it take me that long to realise when you kill a poxer up close the maggot sprites can land on your gun ?

[elder fiber]

ogryn toughness on heavies really should be distributed to other parts of the talent tree imo

[umbral scaffold]

thats kinda cool

you have to be crouched tho

[pastel yew]

also make the ogryns faster, at least have their run speed be proportional to the regular human sized chars

compared to height

it feels like moving through butter

[umbral scaffold]

UUUUUHHHHH so gross tf they crawl on the arms asell

[tall torrent]

they're not that slow

[elder fiber]

not even that, just giving cleavers like, anything at this point b/c they're still functionally stuck with only 2 blessings (one of which off meta b/c toughness on heavies) and 2 of them have laughable adm

[pastel yew]

they're the same speed no?

but they FEEL slow

because you're taller

[elder fiber]

clubs need love too but its dire for mk6 cleaver lol

[tall torrent]

not the same speed

[pastel yew]

is base speed not the same across the board?

[tall torrent]

veteran & zealot have 5.2m/s base sprint

psyker & ogryn have 5m/s base sprint

not the same

[pastel yew]

ah so

effectively the same

[tall torrent]

also in-hand weapon usually has some sort of sprint modifier

[pastel yew]

5 full seconds of sprinting to be 1m behind

[tall torrent]

combat axe for example is usually at least +0.2

so veteran gets to around 5.4 smth

[pastel yew]

give the ogryns the combat blade

let them run

[tall torrent]

the issue is

[pastel yew]

mach 10

[tall torrent]

psyker, even though slow base

has duelling sword

which is usually like +0.8 or higher

[midnight totem]

Fists for ogryns

FISTS

[pastel yew]

I feel like the ogryns moving like

10% faster

[tall torrent]

and psyker has a ton of +move speed talents

ogryns do not

[pastel yew]

isnt going to be game breaking

they're also huge

why they move slower than a regular human on their giant legs

[tall torrent]

and ogryn weapons have either low sprint bonus, no sprint bonus, or penalizes sprint speed

branx cuts ur sprint by like 0.2

so 4.8m/s

lol

[tall torrent]

they have short legs

[pastel yew]

compared to the human?

[tall torrent]

yea

[pastel yew]

or the non abhuman...

let them run on their hands then ;-;

but eh its not like its the worst that theres one class I find non interesting

there are three others that are cool

[meager topaz]

What good blessing for the orestes MKXII Assualt chain axe?

[pastel yew]

I would like to see more ogryn players for the funny lines but completely get why no one plays them

[tall torrent]

they’re quite popular idk

I feel most people I run into are Psyker & Ogryn

[pastel yew]

I barely have them

on eu servers

I see them on the ship but

maybe 1 in 20 players

maybe not so bad but

not common

1 in 10 at a max

[tall torrent]

Have they showed anything about the mastery cosmetic reward for weapon family

They mentioned some sort of weapon skin when they first talked abt the rework

[orchid hemlock]

PS or Shovel? 🤔

[last parcel]

they haven't shown anything officially but color_3_colour_mastery_01 is in the game files and accessible through for the drip
none of the patterns are named though so i just chose random ones

[primal remnant]

I'm honestly shocked Vet got buffs, especially considering the buffs were to its most powerful tools aready

triple vet lobbies every game, coming right up

[tall torrent]

Damn that looks kinda meh

Was hoping for smth better ngl

It just doesn’t match any cosmetic we have rn

[maiden wasp]

This is a spiritual debate as much as a practical one.

Thwonk or zwoosh?

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/lethal-company-for-the-company-lethal-company-memes-gif-14215347766483224419

[faint beacon]

Trust me im not looking forward to the 3 vet stack all plasma gun runs

Hell they fucking nerfed Ogryn's Delight which shocks me

[primal remnant]

Ogryn, the least played class in the game, got nerfed

make it make sense

[last parcel]

[tall torrent]

Karsolas remains untouched

[primal remnant]

the pickaxes are problematic because they've essentially replaced all the other weapons by virtue of actually being good

[tall torrent]

True

[primal remnant]

I tried using my bull butcher the other day and all I could think about was how frustratingly weak it felt at horde clear compared to the Karsolas- Which can also twoshot crushers! And horde clear is suppsoed to be the BB's main purpose!

I don't want the pickaxes nerfed, mind you. But everything else being shit is also not great.

[tall torrent]

Ogryn needs a lot of weapons buffed

Cleavers, bully clubs

[faint beacon]

Ogryn class in general just feels sluggish to play unless you run Pickaxe and then it feels like

holy shit im playing a class

lmao

Its depressing really

Cause Ogryn is super useful

they're just weak in comparison to the other classes abilities

to ALt F4 shit

without thinking

[earnest bone]

clubs are on the same level of OP, just a bit weaker than pickaxes

[primal remnant]

pickaxe weaponizes the sluggishness, which is why it works so well. It plays right into the Ogryn's strengths. Swipe, clear a swath of the horde, charge next heavy. By the time its ready, the horde has closed the open space. Swipe, repeat.

[tall torrent]

Nah clubs are much weaker than pickaxes

Clubs can only damage 3 enemies per swing

Genuinely just bad clear speed

[primal remnant]

this is a huge problem when hording because you end up just knocking the horde all over the place and on the ground where your team can't get to them, but you don't actually kill them, making horde clear actually go slower

[earnest bone]

it was solid as pre-pickaxe era, but right now just overshadowed

[orchid hemlock]

which of the 2 PS are better then? 🤔

[tall torrent]

It was overshadowed by mk5 shovel before pickaxes were added

They just need major buffs

[tall torrent]

Mk6

[earnest bone]

mk5 shovel ogryn oneshot fs bring back pls

[tranquil bronze]

So on Sep 26... we can all finally create our perfect weapons

[tall torrent]

It’s even more lenient than expected cuz u can switch marks within a family

[terse idol]

ooh looking goooood

[orchid hemlock]

is the best perks still elite/maniac?

[tranquil bronze]

And that means I am gonna have fun with my Kantraels

[terse idol]

I'm actually kinda curious if like

The Average™️ vet isn't doing so hot

[tall torrent]

So like, if u have a godroll combat axe
You can swap it between all 3 variants (essentially meaning u have godroll for all variants of combat axe)

[terse idol]

That or... they took alot of suggestions from...

Reddit

🤢

[tall torrent]

Elite is good
Maniac only matters for 1 breakpoint so u don’t have to have it

[terse idol]

All I'm saying y'all is uh, Check #general-chat Pins, and make sure to put your feedback into the forum

[tall torrent]

No the vet specific changes aren’t that bad

[orchid hemlock]

which are the ones u would take then?

[terse idol]

Since it SEEMS like alot of the discussion was heard from reddit

[tall torrent]

Elite priority

The most impactful veteran-specific change this coming patch is replacing vanguard with +25% weapon swap speed

Which gives us a strong alternative starting path from close order drill + confirmed kill

[primal remnant]

see this is what we call selection bias. Ogryn overperforms comparatively because the only people who play Ogryn are people who REALLY LIKE Ogryn; Its the least played class and most of the people who play it are diehard Ogryn lovers, resulting in an unusually high performance rate. Vet, conversely, is extremely popular, but a lot of vet players are pure shit because vet is just the standard cawadoody man to your casual observer meaning the vet base gets inflated by large numbers of shitters which drag the average performance down.

[tall torrent]

Zealot got buffed this patch too

[primal remnant]

Guess which class is the second most played

There might be something to Smudgels' analysis

[tall torrent]

Without FS releasing the numbers rn it’s all speculation

[primal remnant]

they're just looking at raw numbers without understanding the context of the data they are looking at

[tranquil bronze]

Vet I think would definitely be most played.

[primal remnant]

It is, and its not close

[tall torrent]

Lemme see what Ogryn specific changes actually are

Seems like Ogryn gunlugger got buffed

[primal remnant]

The big ones are that it is much harder to get all 3 TDR nodes, and the TDR from the left keystone got reduced by 20%.

[tall torrent]

Why

[primal remnant]

In return a few gunlugger nodes that not even gunlugger took got buffed, and I don't think it was by enough to make gunlugger start taking them as gunlugger's node budget is extremely tight

[tall torrent]

U can take all three 10% TDR nodes still

Oh wait

Swap places

Hm

[primal remnant]

Probably because of what Smudgels said, Fatshark is probably looking at raw numbers, but not understanding the data they are seeing. And as I said, Ogryn playerbase is diehard ogryn lovers resulting in a higher average performance compared to other classes, especially veteran, which is flooded with shitters who are bad enough they cannot make Veteran's blatantly superior kit work.

[tall torrent]

Ok yea u can grab 2, not all 3

I don’t think that’s such a big deal tho

[tall torrent]

Which talents got buffed that not even gunluggers take

[primal remnant]

Its not, but tht combined with the keystone nerf makes pure melee ogryn noticeably more fragile

[earnest bone]

The Average™️ vet from what i've seen dont understand the fundamentals of melee combat and goes down instantly as soon as he ran out of ammo or overwhelmed in melee and dont have time to reload. This goes to powersword mk6 meta users, since mk6 isnt that good when you are swarmed (you either need something better like rashad with weapon spec or chainsword13 or need to throw a grenade in preparation)

[tall torrent]

Steady grip
Reloaded & ready
Big boom
Massacre

Fairly common Gunlugger talents here no?