As appetizing that Rending blessing looks
#veteran-class
faint beacon
I think we should just stick with Deathblow + Headtaker and just take rending strikes talent with it
slow spade
I was thinking the dueling swords
slow spade
Imagine how ridiculous vet would look with the dueling sword lol
faint beacon
It’s why I’m using Heavy Swords IDGAF!!!!
slow spade
Our hand behind our back before a lunge :p
faint beacon
Refuse to cave
HHA + Whatever I feel like using that day
Might be HHA + HS once the update drops
slow spade
I wonder if Zealots are going to use the recons
faint beacon
Possibly
slow spade
The old days where a vet with recon is an instant leave
Now its zealot with a recon UwU
ocean shell
anguish, despair
slow spade
anguish, despair
:)
faint beacon
I might honestly instant leave with some of the Psyker stuff cause
Holy shit Purgatus might be a smite situation
Of get yourself a nice warm blanket
Lay in it
Sleep
slow spade
Purg is fine though?
faint beacon
Wake up to the psyker finishing the mission
slow spade
Yeah that's a funny one lol
slow spade
Fatshark is fucking smoking some good stuff for that
slow spade
At the very least, Psykers in Melee-Only maelstroms will be a welcome sight
I fucking hate carapace
slow spade
Chainaxe psyker meta
red robin
Man the duelling sword on vet got me hyped, I just want to stack 30% weakspot damage from precision strikes talent, 10% from agile, 10% from weapon perk, 60% finesse from precognition and 25% finesse from Desperado
I love crit headshots
slow spade
bonk
red robin
45% stamina efficiency ain’t no joke
Need the +9 stamina
Toughness is an illusion if you abuse hyper mobility
And the infiltrate panic button
midnight totem
I guess I'm swapping one of then, or a toughness or health perk to sprint efficiency
red robin
I don’t even run iron will and do just fine
faint beacon
I guess I'm swapping one of then, or a toughness or health perk to sprint effici...
Toughness prob
red robin
But uh, don’t get hit
faint beacon
Veteran has so many toughness nodes it’s not even funny
red robin
Overhead crusher and melee range gunner locking me in place is the only time I go down
slow spade
Overhead crusher and melee range gunner locking me in place is the only time I g...
Oh? You forgot about your teammates and Tzeentch placed barrels
red robin
Yeah
slow spade
Just for you, I'm blasting our team's ogryn into the stratosphere
midnight totem
The occasional shotgun and rager ambush rips my toughness away
Especially shotgunners. Damn they annoying
red robin
Damn do they ever knock the breath out of you all of a sudden and without warning
slow spade
For me, they just chip at me before I sigh and start spamming dodge + block
Its more annoying than anything at this point
faint beacon
It’s truly an absolute low
To see a whole shotgunner squad side step from a corner
All rack in unison
And instantly down you
red robin
Rip the toughness break and slowdown
slow spade
That's why I have 280 toughness + Iron Will 😎
Only the biggest clown cars break my toughness (2 shooters)
red robin
I wish get back in the fight was on the weapon specialist line
red robin
That would be ultimate survivability for that tree
faint beacon
Look I’m just
Rejoicing
That relentless
Is no longer an addition
It’s just in the fucking Kit
red robin
True
faint beacon
Bless this minor but seriously huge buff to exec
red robin
Executioner finally has 1 point freed from builds
faint beacon
1
red robin
Can reach rending strikes or grenade regen free
pseudo fiber
My exe stance builds have 1 extra point for...
Uhhhhhhh
Focus target node
Probably.
faint beacon
1
slow spade
1 point is often all I need
I'd probably take the focus target node too
Fuck shooters
red robin
It can even service further if you just want elite and specialist highlights for no point investment for more min max
Those 2 points can go places ngl
Thinking about it, even onslaught might be even reachable too
For marksmen focus full auto builds
mortal horizon
raven yew
Does Survivalist stack if two+ vets take it?
crude fiber
was there an update or are they trying the update preview thing they talked about
slow spade
Does Survivalist stack if two+ vets take it?
No
Also Scavenger + Survivalist no longer stacks either
last parcel
was there an update or are they trying the update preview thing they talked abou...
just the preview
dull crane
for the "Make Every Shot Count" penance, how does a shotgun work with it?
severe gale
for the "Make Every Shot Count" penance, how does a shotgun work with it?
even one pellet hitting will count as a hit
slow spade
that will be way easier then
Brb sending only bulwarks to you
somber axle
The new blessings look fun
Also some nice Boltgun and Boltpistol buffs
New weapon swap speed talent to make them even easier to use
last parcel
puncture bolter for my boss bleeding fantasies
somber axle
I'm just happy I got my Boltgun ready before they added Terrifying Barrage to the blessing list
It's going to appear every single time anyone tries to upgrade a Boltgun at Hadron's
celest vine
somber axle
My Exe Stance builds will now have an extra point to spend!
tame lodge
Helbores stay winning huh
pseudo fiber
The buffs are nice
even if doing even more boss damage isn't exactly what the bolter needs
however shooting through arms
great
pseudo fiber
there has to be a nerf with that
like there genuinely has to be a nerf coming with these
Like hrm
kinda wish there was a little unarmoured damage in there know what I'm sayin
golden folio
Nope no plasma nerf 
dreamy spade
pretty much all my builds have been heavily buffed
tall torrent
This next patch is gonna power creep veteran to heights unheard of
last parcel
i hope i see more people blow themselves up
golden folio
Time to dust off my empty block list and fill it exclusively with plasma vets
tall torrent
They basically said “yea we gave the best class in the game a weapon to 1 shot crushers without commitment like chainaxe & shovel, and that weapon happens to have high move speed & high dodge profile”
pseudo fiber
I genuinely don't see flamer rending making it through this patch
tall torrent
I genuinely don't see flamer rending making it through this patch
U should be more worried about DS4 uncanny + thrust casually one tapping crushers
pseudo fiber
that's gonna happen anyway
the blessing can be changed they won't just not have thrust
maybe actually
hrm
arctic rampart
I rarely see other vets with a plasma. In basically exclusively random queue'n NA servers. For me, I'm a glutton for "40k" weapons. I cant use stupid revolvers or axes. Do I think plasmas are strong? Yeah, but I also think IAG & revolver are as good. Not sure it needed strong nerfs, rather buff underperforming guns like headhunters, shredder, etc. Zealot flamer & thunderhammer.
tame lodge
I thought you could drop uncanny for precognition
arctic rampart
Ogryn maul is another example that needed a buff
tame lodge
Precog Thrust for the funny
golden folio
I rarely see other vets with a plasma. In basically exclusively random queue'n ...
You rarely see plasma because it makes the game too easy and boring. Buffing other weapons to the level of plasma is not the play.
tall torrent
I rarely see other vets with a plasma. In basically exclusively random queue'n ...
Thunder hammer got a huge buff
Crucis might actually be good now
They basically addressed everything bad about crucis
pseudo fiber
I rarely see other vets with a plasma. In basically exclusively random queue'n ...
While I understand such a stance on plasma my issue with plasma is it fundamental ignores its own game design.
Light shots are too strong as a result you have no need to use charged ones.
But I don't think buffing charged shots is how to fix this issue. They should nerf light shots.
arctic rampart
Thats good, I'm on zoom meetings for work so I didn't get a chance to review. I'm glad TH got a big buff I want to see a lot of them for zealots and my zealot might be able to switch from rashaad finally ;D
golden folio
Thats good, I'm on zoom meetings for work so I didn't get a chance to review. I...
Rashad got buffed too lol
tame lodge
arctic rampart
??? wut???
didn't need at all?
golden folio
Lots of unnecessary power creep in the patch notes let’s just hope the rethink a lot of buffs
wise fossil
This update is terrible because now I have no excuse not to use duelling sword 4 on every human character 
arctic rampart
well to be fair I almost never see rashaad though
tall torrent
Wait
wise fossil
The rashad buff is a very specific instance and very reasonable
tall torrent
Vanguard replaced by One Motion (lead into out for blood)
+25% weapon swap speed
arctic rampart
its fucking dagger dagger dagger for my 3 teammates and then the occassional ogryn pickaxe
tall torrent
This might actually be crazy
tall torrent
dueling swords on vet is gonna look funny
They basically said “yea we gave the best class in the game a weapon to 1 shot crushers without commitment like chainaxe & shovel, and that weapon happens to have high move speed & high dodge profile”
arctic rampart
The rashad buff is a very specific instance and very reasonable
troll comment but that's exactly what someone that uses rashaad would say. I'm just kidding though I believe you
wise fossil
Duelling sword on vet requires commissar hat 😆
tall torrent
This patch is some serious power creep for veteran
golden folio
Get ready for all dueling sword lobbies
wise fossil
troll comment but that's exactly what someone that uses rashaad would say. I'm...
You're the troll or I'm the troll? I'm confused
arctic rampart
Me, but since you're asking you too.
hard cave
power sword on psyker when,,,
arctic rampart
NO SPARKY NOT FOR YOU
wise fossil
The rashad buff is fine. It literally explains itself immediately under the stats
golden folio
Psyker got a bunch of new talents
Psyker was long overdue for a tree rework but the numbers definitely needs tuning
wise fossil
It in no way affects why the rashad is so strong
tall torrent
The rashad buff is fine. It literally explains itself immediately under the stat...
What’s the Rashad buff
wise fossil
You could already deal with maniacs, you were just doing it with lights
arctic rampart
Psyker should get a cat in the box schroedinger's head migration 50% chance to decapitate in one channeled attack
tall torrent
U just get to use heavy atk on mutant now
No big deal
Heavy atk wouldn’t change much abt Dreg rager breakpoint
arctic rampart
If more people use rashaad instead of dagger I'll be happy
For every good dagger user there's 20 shitter or mediocres
tame lodge
Will Achlys finally be respected
tall torrent
After-patch u get to craft perfect rolls on every weapon
golden folio
Psyker should get a cat in the box schroedinger's head migration 50% chance to d...
New psyker tree has a 100% cleave at high peril node.
Purgatus rending plus unlimited cleave is going to be competing with plasma meta
frank monolith
They basically said “yea we gave the best class in the game a weapon to 1 shot c...
pysker weapon plus zealot or vet = craigasm
hard cave
psyker with the bolter
wise fossil
After-patch u get to craft perfect rolls on every weapon
Kinda
tall torrent
New psyker tree has a 100% cleave at high peril node.
Purgatus rending plus unli...
Purgatus already has unlimited cleave
The +100% cleave bonus is more relevant for guns and illisi
arctic rampart
Good I don't see a lot of psyker or ogryn so buff them
golden folio
The +100% cleave bonus is more relevant for guns and illisi
Unlimited cleave in general is a bit problematic IMO
tall torrent
also they buffed purgatus/trauma/surge with this
Souldrinker
Killing an Enemy with Soulblaze restores 5% Toughness and grants 5% critical Hit Chance for 5s.
arctic rampart
Its usually 2 or 3 vet in every one of my games.. we win more often if its 4 though
tall torrent
Unlimited cleave in general is a bit problematic IMO
on purgatus? not rly?
arctic rampart
also they buffed purgatus/trauma/surge with this
Souldrinker
Killing an Enemy w...
Still not as good as voice of command
tame lodge
The +100% cleave bonus is more relevant for guns and illisi
Voidstrike with Warp unbound
tawny badger
damn which recon is that
dreamy spade
7a i think
tawny badger
might just try it out instead of my columnus iag
dreamy spade
recon is better than columnus now
midnight totem
Wtf. I'm just surprised nobody is shooting at the recon guy
tawny badger
wait deadshot?
tawny badger
does.. that work if you're out of stamina
dreamy spade
nope
tawny badger
BOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGG 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅
last parcel
BOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGG 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅
tawny badger
https://tenor.com/view/smellslikebitch-smelly-bitch-smelly-ass-bitch-gif-2096996...
:(
tame lodge
That's a lot of stamina
dreamy spade
golden folio
on purgatus? not rly?
Right now purgatus is balanced by having poor armor penetration but with the new rending buff it’s going to turn into a screen clearer
tame lodge
Didn't skip cardio huh
dreamy spade
Didnt run out of stam here
tawny badger
+10 stamina but good lord 2 wounds
tame lodge
BOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGG 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅 🍅
My kin on the Imperium, the stats are too good to be free
tall torrent
Right now purgatus is balanced by having poor armor penetration but with the new...
That rending should only matter for carapace tbh
And maybe flak
I think new purgatus build would be rending + blaze away (if blaze away doesn’t take absurdly long to stack up)
Because now u can get +% crit chance from talent tree
Souldrinker
golden folio
That rending should only matter for carapace tbh
Yes the rending affects the two main armor types in the game
dreamy spade
tall torrent
I think new purgatus build would be rending + blaze away (if blaze away doesn’t ...
Actually rend/blaze/nexus
tawny badger
why are there so many fucking gunners
dreamy spade
better than my plasma clips tbh
tall torrent
Yes the rending affects the two main armor types in the game
No it should mainly just matter for carapace
Flak enemies usually don’t last long anyway
The question is if rend actually makes soulblaze kill them in a reasonable amount of time
golden folio
The question is if rend actually makes soulblaze kill them in a reasonable amoun...
Fair, but unlimited cleave means that waves of maulers, flak ragers or crusher get deleted and the effectiveness just scales with density. Zero target prioritization or melee needed
tall torrent
Fair, but unlimited cleave means that waves of maulers, flak ragers or crusher g...
Crushers still block unlimited cleave
Purgatus never had a problem dealing with scab ragers & maulers
Because it’s body hit only
golden folio
Because it’s body hit only
Now it’s even easier
tall torrent
No it doesn’t even make a difference
Giving +100% cleave to “unlimited cleave” doesn’t make it cleave buff than it already did
last parcel
damn it’s like double infinity
tall torrent
What it couldn’t cleave through, still can’t
golden folio
No it doesn’t even make a difference
I was more talking about rending buff
tall torrent
I was more talking about rending buff
The rending blessing is a huge maybe
I think it might be trading away too much just to fire blast crushers
golden folio
The rending blessing is a huge maybe
I’m going off of uncanny strike bleed as reference
tall torrent
Psyker never had a problem with crushers in the first place so this seems more of a “fun & casual” blessing
Need to see how fast it actually melts crushers
dreamy spade
how can people even use helbore or infantry lasguns
faint beacon
Precision vs focused fire
2 clicks vs holding click on head
Literally personal preference
pastel yew
I'm a little late to the party but
what are the thoughts on all the new balance changes?
most S tier weapons buffed, or untouched
faint beacon
what are the thoughts on all the new balance changes?
Indifferent
dreamy spade
Literally personal preference
But the recon is objectively better
faint beacon
But I am very excited for Heavy Swords on Veteran
pastel yew
But I am very excited for Heavy Swords on Veteran
?????????????????
I MISSED THAT
okay that is
hype
tall torrent
what are the thoughts on all the new balance changes?
The best class in the game got power crept to new heights previously thought impossible
tame lodge
Giving +100% cleave to “unlimited cleave” doesn’t make it cleave buff than it al...
Twice the infinite goes hard 
faint beacon
Everyone is excited for DS
pastel yew
I hope everyone is ready for dueling sword mk4 meta
faint beacon
Me
last parcel
brauto ceasless barrage with gaze tho
pastel yew
AAAAAAAAAAAAA
faint beacon
I’m excited for Heavy Swords
pastel yew
WHY
last parcel
imma go ZOOM
tall torrent
They also gave duelling sword a blessing that’s effectively infinite dodges
pastel yew
I love the deuling sword but
faint beacon
YOU WILL USE THE
pastel yew
it was already broken on psyker
faint beacon
1 BP ON CRUSHER WEAPON
pastel yew
and we're going to give it to vet with their absurd weakspot damage
faint beacon
YOU WILL LIKE IT
pastel yew
tall torrent
and we're going to give it to vet with their absurd weakspot damage
Also crucis buffed massively
pastel yew
I dont want to sound ungrateful because a lot of these changes are good
but a lot are fucking silly
pastel yew
Also crucis buffed massively
that I'm okay with, the new overhead after charge attack was also desperately needed
tall torrent
It’s massive power creep for veteran and pretty hilariously strong changes for psyker
They gave plasma gun new blessings
dreamy spade
They also gave duelling sword a blessing that’s effectively infinite dodges
"Refreshed Dodge Efficiency" is that reset dodge count?
tall torrent
"Refreshed Dodge Efficiency" is that reset dodge count?
Yea
faint beacon
Fucking Ogryn was the only one who got nerfed
pastel yew
don't worry gang I'm sure the balance team have adjusted enemy stats and difficulty to account for this power creep on top of the power creep we already had
dreamy spade
Fucking Ogryn was the only one who got nerfed <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
my ogryn build has been buffed massively lol
pastel yew
right?
faint beacon
Delight in Destruction was reduced 10 to 8%
tall torrent
don't worry gang I'm sure the balance team have adjusted enemy stats and difficu...
I think they just went “if every playstyle is roughly equally broken it’s fine”
pastel yew
it does feel weird that the human classes are also sharing more of their weapons
pastel yew
I think they just went “if every playstyle is roughly equally broken it’s fine”
ah yes, the dark heresy approach
if everything dies in one shot
its balanced
faint beacon
it does feel weird that the human classes are also sharing more of their weapons
Idk man it gives me more toys to play with on Veteran
pastel yew
Idk man it gives me more toys to play with on Veteran
yeah but it removes class identity
faint beacon
Expect to see me running Agri IX + Heavy Sword
pastel yew
the heavy sword was literally the only reason I played any zealot
because vet is just better in melee
tall torrent
yeah but it removes class identity
Class identity is more with abilities & talent tree now
pastel yew
than the literal melee class
dreamy spade
Zealot is still the weakest class imo, but maybe these thunderhammer changes will make it actually viable
pseudo fiber
difficulty 6 on anniversary update trust
tall torrent
the heavy sword was literally the only reason I played any zealot
Heavy sword actually got a new blessing that’s really cool
faint beacon
Tbf there’s still class identity with the ranged weapons
pastel yew
Heavy sword actually got a new blessing that’s really cool
are they good? as it'd have to be to take me off of what I already had
tall torrent
are they good? as it'd have to be to take me off of what I already had
Chained deathblow
Weakspot kills grant +20% melee crit chance for 3s
pastel yew
Tbf there’s still class identity with the ranged weapons
for the psyker and vet sure 
tall torrent
U decide if +20% crit chance for free is good
faint beacon
for the psyker and vet sure <:KEKW:908962118492127232>
Did you not see the brain dead blessing they gave flamer
pastel yew
zealot options remain, run boltgun or zarona if you dont have a high pen melee
faint beacon
Rending on burn
tall torrent
for the psyker and vet sure <:KEKW:908962118492127232>
They also buffed zealot’s crit CDR node
faint beacon
That shit is stupid
pastel yew
oohhh okay thats
faint beacon
Lmao
pastel yew
They also buffed zealot’s crit CDR node
uhh I mean it depends on the weapon you're using
if you were using the knife
last parcel
we should trade ds4 thrust for ds4 lacerate
tall torrent
uhh I mean it depends on the weapon you're using
No they reworked it
pastel yew
yeah its cooldown speed on crit hit for 4s
tall torrent
It’s now 175% ability cooldown rate for 4s on crit
tall torrent
The difference is
tall torrent
You don’t get much of a difference with atk speed changes now
pastel yew
mhm
tall torrent
Since you’re basically bound to get 1 crit every 4s with piety
pastel yew
which is good because before it went from amazing to literally useless
for heavy weapons
tall torrent
So it doesn’t have specific weapon preferences anymore
I think zealot’s main attraction for me would be thunder hammer post-patch
pastel yew
no nerfs to plasmagun or smite is a wound though
tall torrent
Need to try the new crucis
faint beacon
FOTF returns on Flamer with a blessing also
tall torrent
no nerfs to plasmagun or smite is a wound though
Plasma got buffed
pastel yew
fortunately I already have a mega crucis crafted
pastel yew
Plasma got buffed <:chadgryn:1161142998214656090>
just new blessings right?
I didnt read them though
dreamy spade
no nerfs to plasmagun or smite is a wound though
they buffed rashad too
faint beacon
Boltgun and pistol are getting buffs
pastel yew
they buffed rashad too <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
yeah saw that, wasnt happy
faint beacon
Sways reduced and cleave
dreamy spade
tbf rashad was weak against ragers but it didnt need a buff lmao
pastel yew
The +20% power scaling on overheat one
I think the issue with this is you were already hitting your one shot break points
tall torrent
I think the issue with this is you were already hitting your one shot break poin...
No, this gives more
pastel yew
whereas heat generation on critical hit just gives you more shots
tall torrent
This gives u Dreg and scab rager 1 shot
pastel yew
No, this gives more
it'd have to open up lights on mutants, ogryns n such
ah okay I remember
pastel yew
I dont care about body shot breakpoints
dreamy spade
time to whip out my plasma build again
pastel yew
I think having toughness on elite kill is better than that
tall torrent
I dont care about body shot breakpoints
1 shot head on both rager
pastel yew
also the plasma has the same fucky head hitbox as the zarona/voidstrike
tall torrent
I think plasma now gets some competition in blessing choices which is good
tall torrent
its overall power remains dominant
Also veteran got a talent rework
pastel yew
its one weakness being that you have to sorta scrap together enough buffs to make up for its weird breakpoints is also gone
pseudo fiber
top one is conceptually fun
tall torrent
Vanguard changed to One Motion (above Out for Blood, top right starter)
+25% weapon swap speed
This is actually good
You have a competitive alternative starting branch to close order drill + confirmed kill
pastel yew
but having a dedicated swap speed is a very good addition
dreamy spade
What does power blast mean, I assume increased power?
last parcel
but ym vanguard skirmisher build 
pseudo fiber
This is huge
pastel yew
they also reduced the swap speed on the boltgun right?
tall torrent
What does power blast mean, I assume increased power?
It’s Crit chance
It’s basically a worse version of gets hot
dreamy spade
Oh yeah lmao
tall torrent
Because gets hot is +40% at high heat (on avg)
pseudo fiber
they also reduced the swap speed on the boltgun right?
pastel yew
I thought power was just damage ngl
dreamy spade
Get hot and cooling aint bad, better up time
radiant chasm
What does power blast mean, I assume increased power?
it's crit
tall torrent
I thought power was just damage ngl
For plasma, it pretty much is
pastel yew
nice quality of life changes
radiant chasm
i asked strawhat
tall torrent
but blaze away and energy leakage are the best combo
Nah
pastel yew
I like that the boltgun got the quality of life it needed... not made op... then a load of S tier weapons get buffed xd
nice
plasma and rashad needed it
tall torrent
Gets hot + energy leakage / gloryhunter
pastel yew
I still think glory hunter is absurd on the plasmagun if you have your breakpoints already sorted though
it makes you functionally immortal while firing
pseudo fiber
I like that the boltgun got the quality of life it needed... not made op... then...
I like all the other changes there are just a few nasty ones snuck in there
tall torrent
I like that the boltgun got the quality of life it needed... not made op... then...
Rashad buff is sorta QoL
pastel yew
which is almost always
pseudo fiber
the rashad one is strange but whatever
dreamy spade
vet already has a better toughness talent than gloryhunter
tall torrent
QoL for veteran, huge for zealots
pastel yew
vet already has a better toughness talent than gloryhunter
they stack
dreamy spade
yeah but you dont need both
radiant chasm
not if you are at max toughness
pastel yew
having both is good though no?
dreamy spade
over more power? nah
pastel yew
because then you have what we have now where you never have to swap
radiant chasm
depends on the BPs
tall torrent
over more power? nah
If that +power doesn’t translate into killing things meaningfully faster, then yes it’s better
dreamy spade
Monsters and ogryns will be 1 shot now
radiant chasm
but plasma is very BP dependent so if the new combos give you some meaningful bp i'd prob always take it over gh
tall torrent
Monsters and ogryns will be 1 shot now
Nah
dreamy spade
Lemme pull up some old clips for reference
tall torrent
I would be surprised if monsters were oneshotable
They specifically nerfed thunder hammer unyielding Adm this patch
pastel yew
it's only job ;-;
pastel yew
Because they didn’t want meme monster 1 shot
vet talent tree would like a word
pastel yew
not in one, but in rapid insta bursts for sure
pastel yew
perfectly balanced as all things should be
dreamy spade
pastel yew
my favourite part of the plasmagun is that without cleave
its already broken
honestly I feel like the bosses just need a flat health boost of 50%
except for bon
they're a complete joke
pastel yew
tall torrent
except for bon
Bon can use a flat -100% health nerf
dreamy spade
Unfortunately, after the survivalist nerf this build wasn't viable,
pastel yew
Bon can use a flat -100% health nerf
the fact that you say this demonstrates why its the only well designed boss though ;p
its the only one that does its job
tall torrent
its the only one that does its job
Of being annoying yea
radiant chasm
Unfortunately, after the survivalist nerf this build wasn't viable,
wdym not viable pick up ammo
pastel yew
kraks should probably lose their boss stagger
also as you say though boss damage is only insane on some builds
somber axle
there's more ammo on maps now
dreamy spade
Plasma has trash ammo effiency, I would only be okay when I killed like 5 gunners in 1 shot
somber axle
just pick up ammo and continue to shoot with Plasma
radiant chasm
maps hav elike 5000% ammo on them
dreamy spade
Not when your team waste ammo crates
pastel yew
also survivalist is still good like
somber axle
1 Plasma shot is 3 ammo spent and if you kill multiple gunners with the funny cleave you're still doing better on ammo to kill ratio than most other guns
radiant chasm
with survivalist and the increased ammo capacity (if you take that one) you are more than able to run it
radiant chasm
Not when your team waste ammo crates
okay?
then run to pick em up first or take the ammo pack and save it
pastel yew
I think I have a screenshot around here of me using my plasma gun for almost an entire hisg damnation run, never picking up a single ammo box, and still massively outperforming and never running out of ammo
because survivalist was THAT stacked before
the 5s change was fine, even if I wasnt keen on it to begin with
radiant chasm
also like, it doesn't hurt to attempt communication
odd sparrow
agreed
dreamy spade
I think survivalist should allow for collateral shots
odd sparrow
plasma was so self sufficient it was dumb
radiant chasm
it literally made you ammo positive
pastel yew
I think survivalist should allow for collateral shots
but then the issue becomes that weapons with cleave gain a lot more from it than weapons that dont
and the weapons with cleave
are the S tier weapons in current meta
they dont need an increase in strength
dreamy spade
then it should only apply to your kills and not your teammates
pastel yew
but why remove the teamplay element in favour of supporting already op builds
the plasmaguns current ammo efficiency
is still absurd
radiant chasm
that doesn't fix the issue with vet being able to ignore the ammo mechanic
pastel yew
it needs to be taken out back and beat with a hammer
radiant chasm
veteran should have to pick up ammo
dreamy spade
I dont pick up nades
pastel yew
that doesn't fix the issue with vet being able to ignore the ammo mechanic
I will say that this doesn't really matter anyway since ammo drops are so plentiful, and most vet builds can just ignore ammo until a full refil crate drops anyway
Honestly the vet grenade recharge talent as much as I love it
somber axle
you've got to have a particularly goofy team of ammo goblins to stretch map ammo thin now
tall torrent
or given to zealot
This is crazy
pastel yew
This is crazy
zealot grenades are better but zealot has literally nothing of value outside of its tank potential compared to vet
dreamy spade
zealot grenades are better but zealot has literally nothing of value outside of ...
...
pastel yew
just make the timer longer
dreamy spade
frag nade is op
pastel yew
Zealot nades are better???
in terms of actual impact they can have on a game on an individual grenade basis? yes
dreamy spade
no it isnt
pastel yew
wha
dreamy spade
frag nade is best nade in game
pastel yew
no it absolutely is not
lavish token
Yeah but is shit pathing wise
pastel yew
I also think kraks are generally better than frags anyway
because I dont care about killing trash
the trash already dies
dreamy spade
yeah 5 burn stacks kill crushers
pastel yew
waddles exactly 3m and is instantly one shot
also didnt heavy attacks against carapace get improved in the recent changes?
making them even more useless
dreamy spade
oh yeah because blessings apply to fire nades dont they?.....
tall torrent
oh yeah because blessings apply to fire nades dont they?.....
Uncanny does because it’s a buff to urself
dreamy spade
Its to the weapon no?
tall torrent
So all ur damage (including fire grenade) gets buffed
pastel yew
most buffs that have conditions they apply, apply to all things when you're holding that weapon
its the same reason old vet would be able to lob a frag grenade, to fully charge pinning fire
then fire 30 bolt shells
at full boost
wasnt bleed applying to uhh
psyker assail
did that ever get fixed
I dont remember the method for achieving that though
I know someone said it as a joke earlier as well but... a new higher difficulty for the anniversary would be nice
the constant power creep is intense
tall torrent
I know someone said it as a joke earlier as well but... a new higher difficulty ...
I worry for the new breakpoints in a new difficulty
dreamy spade
It's not
somber axle
I worry for the new breakpoints in a new difficulty
That sounds like fun though
New things to test and toy with
pastel yew
I worry for the new breakpoints in a new difficulty
I think rather than adjust health and damage across the board, health the same, damage and accuracy higher
then harder conditions
somber axle
All the current breakpoints are still relevant for the current highest difficulties
New difficulty would shake up the meta
pastel yew
I know people absolutely hated the gunner patch, but for one patch we had enemies that could actually deal damage to you
that you had to worry about
tall torrent
The other issue is that they’ve power crept themselves into a corner
We get more specialist & elite spawns than before because it’s more fun
pastel yew
I dont really care about our damage potential being this high
but enemy damage is lacking
tall torrent
But it’s also harder to optimize
pastel yew
massively
defensive options arent going to get nerfed as casual players will cry
so a new higher dam difficulty is the next best
given the power creep what other options are there?
tall torrent
Bro got ptsd from elite resistance shotgunners
pastel yew
damage cooldown on hit would be nice for some enemies like chump gunners
because that was the only actual issue I had on gunner patch
"oh I'm dead" 100-0
somber axle
no healing would be hilarious
pastel yew
no healing could be interesting
somber axle
put it in
pastel yew
feels like more of a maelstrom condition but
tall torrent
Add smth like blood sugar from DRG
Constantly lose health but replenish small amount of health from kills
pastel yew
would also really fit given nurgle
maybe a place is particularly corrupted or tainted
would also make sense for why its the highest difficulty
only the best being sent
I Actually really like that as an idea
somber axle
no med, no ammo hab dreyko when
pastel yew
if they could get the balance right
somber axle
bring on the cancer tree
pastel yew
the number of people who still don't know how to do dreyko tree objective
is hillarious
like they can't all be new to the reworked version of the map
if you're struggling just google it why sit for 40s repeatedly failing to figure it out ;-;
I hope when
melta gun comes, if ever
make it a zealot only or something
give them something cool
that vet can't just do better
slow spade
To be fair, its easy to get interrupted doing the tree
pastel yew
Oh also helbore buffed
weird that they reduced the ammo used though
on a weapon that
doesnt... really use any ammo
thats one of their primary strengths
somber axle
The Helbore blessing for better cleave sounds pretty funny
pastel yew
ehhhh it's definitely the most fun, but I feel like there are already lots of easy convenient ways to nuke armor
somber axle
Anti-Horde Helbore soon
tall torrent
The Helbore blessing for better cleave sounds pretty funny
I don’t think it’s gonna be that good tbh
Only up to 4.5 cleave
tame lodge
4.5 cleave Helbore coming soon
tall torrent
And Helbore bayonet cleave distribution is horrendous
pastel yew
or one of the most fun, I still think monstrous maelstrom is my favourite if you dont have someone that can one tap bosses which is rare
somber axle
Helbore Mk II bayonet cleave my beloved
tame lodge
Hold up I didn't think of the bayo
somber axle
Time to bayonet through poxwalkers
tall torrent
_Helbore Mk II bayonet cleave my beloved_
Cleave distribution is still horrible, not worth it
somber axle
It's not Bromentum but it's still going to be funny
pastel yew
no swap speed increase for the mk3 though which sucks, but the new swap speed skill will actually make the weapon viable instead of
tame lodge
9 cleave on the Mk3 bayo sounds tempting though
somber axle
The brittleness one sounds like it'll lead to some funnier breakpoints vs Crushers
pastel yew
spending longer drawing and charging than you would to just kill things with any other weapom
tall torrent
9 cleave on the Mk3 bayo sounds tempting though <:whatthefuck_heresy:10497244442...
Yea but the atk speed is ass
somber axle
soften up Maulers
idle swallow
surgical/brittleness mk2, now we cookin
pastel yew
relentless became part of exec stance... woop... thats one free point
its a shame the other modifiers are literally worthless
but at least you arent punished as hard for pathing through it
tall torrent
relentless became part of exec stance... woop... thats one free point
Killzone buffed (still cringe)
somber axle
Squad highlight has niche value on things like lights out/vent purge
tall torrent
Opening salvo buffed (still mid for most weapons)
pastel yew
Killzone buffed (still cringe)
wasnt a massive massive buff though
opening salvo is now useable on more than just the recons tho
which is nice
somber axle
I get the argument against showing the team specials/elites since it hurts your uptime with the ability but wallhacks squad wide are really strong
tall torrent
wasnt a massive massive buff though
Yea the fact that it still turns off when something steps within 8m is cringe
somber axle
Plus it sorta trivializes sniper gauntlets too since you know where every single sniper is at all times
pastel yew
Yea the fact that it still turns off when something steps within 8m is cringe
eh I mean the way I see it is as a funny boss deleter that is one of your many stacking bonusses
forcing it to be active briefly isnt hard
but it would be degenerate if it was active constantly
idle swallow
Opening salvo exists for lawbringer manstopper special shot shenanigans and I guess double barrel now
tall torrent
U don’t need it to delete bosses on any of the actual boss damage builds
tall torrent
Opening salvo exists for lawbringer manstopper special shot shenanigans and I gu...
Not needed cuz WS exists
lyric dock
I get the argument against showing the team specials/elites since it hurts your ...
Honestly even with that downside. It's a great augment just to grab as giving your team info about elite and more importantly specials is at
tawny badger
the funny thing about executioner is that my silly ass be shooting walls at times
somber axle
Honestly even with that downside. It's a great augment just to grab as giving yo...
It's a very fun support node and I love playing support
tall torrent
don't you need it for the 6 cylinder agripina meme build?
It’s low value imo
somber axle
Could be fun to afford the Ogryn node too
pastel yew
the mechanics are so not cool
somber axle
And just keep up Exe Stance through Reaper squads
pastel yew
It’s low value imo
yeah but not every talent needs to be high value
ideally a game should have some that arent good but boost a silly thing
admitedly they shouldnt have two of those talents leading into one of your abilities meaning you have to take one but still
lyric dock
_Could be fun to afford the Ogryn node too_
With Relentless being baked into Exe stance now*. You can have both for the low low price of 2! points
*When the update hits
tall torrent
yeah but not every talent needs to be high value
But it’s much lower value than most other nodes which is a problem
It’s only good for like
Crit string weapons
pastel yew
I was kinda hoping vet shout would get
adjusted too
so that rather than two defensive options you had an offensive one
tawny badger
adjusted how
pastel yew
and got locked out of the other
pastel yew
adjusted how
remove the over toughness
tawny badger
❌
pastel yew
maybe give it to the revive but not at +50
tall torrent
I was kinda hoping vet shout would get
Veteran next patch is roughly equal to space marine in power scaling, unironically
pastel yew
named character moment
tawny badger
space marine class (veteran capstone)
pastel yew
❌
its op
also if you're not bad there is literally 0 reason to take shout except to stagger and assist team health wise
tawny badger
I thought we fw overtoughness what's going on
pastel yew
that wouldnt be a bad change
tawny badger
also if you're not bad there is literally 0 reason to take shout except to stagg...
"there's literally 0 reason to take shout except the reasons to take shout"
cmon man
pastel yew
so you would have to use it at an ideal time
pastel yew
cmon man
just dodge
thats why I'd want one of the buffs to be aggressively oriented
so you can benefit from it
current shout is just boring
press f on cooldown
you dont die
team doesnt die
yip yip yippee
it should feel meaty and powerful, its a war cry
instead its a constant live forever
idk I dont like it
tall torrent
instead its a constant live forever
Lore accurate veteran
pastel yew
Lore accurate veteran
average guardsman life expectancy of -3 seconds
wild that is
actually higher than that of the average ww2 flamethrower operator
tall torrent
average guardsman life expectancy of -3 seconds
Next patch veteran is space marine tier in terms of power scaling so it’s not that off
pastel yew
Next patch veteran is space marine tier in terms of power scaling so it’s not th...
just give them an astartes power armor skin and be done with it
its time to stop pretending
tawny badger
average guardsman life expectancy of -3 seconds
helldivers somehow having a longer life expectancy than an imperial guardsman is nasty work
pastel yew
honestly if they removed some of the wank conditions from maelstrom I think that could have its conditions adjusted to function as a valid highest difficulty
tawny badger
nvm
pastel yew
the only reason I dont play it is because half of the conditions are just "spam X enemy"
tawny badger
remove pox gas ❤️
tame lodge
idk I dont like it
"Time to get our pay"
Yeah I intend to live so I can be paid
pastel yew
shorter duration, split the giant gas areas into smaller ones and then have it change more rapidly to force movement
so that you arent standing around doing nothing for ages
tall torrent
the only reason I dont play it is because half of the conditions are just "spam ...
Tox bomber spawns are horrendous
tawny badger
COME OUT, COME OUT
pastel yew
Tox bomber spawns are horrendous
think my least favourite is pox hounds
they're not a threat
they're just annoying
have you ever actually seen a team wipe or be reasonably damaged by a hound wave?
its just a dead does nothing condition, with periods of standing doing nothing
the mutant spam one... I kinda like 
somber axle
I mean the 8 minutes thing is probably the average life span of a someone moving from Heresy into Damnation for the first time
pastel yew
playing DDR while chaining heavies
somber axle
if you measured every single reject death as an actual death the rejects have pretty awful average life spans for missions
pastel yew
though equally that one is also not really an additional challenge
somber axle
there was that funny graphic from the beta showing just how many deaths the rejects accumulated and their success rate on the highest difficulty too
tame lodge
have you ever actually seen a team wipe or be reasonably damaged by a hound wave...
Yes Did you know that you can't be wiped by hunting hounds on Malice?
pastel yew
~~Yes~~ Did you know that you can't be wiped by hunting hounds on Malice?
wait what how
somber axle
and this is just some chaos worshippers of Nurgle with the occasional monster thrown in to make it spicy
imagine how much worse the average life span would be vs tyranids
or necrons
we're mostly punching at our own level right now
pastel yew
even outside of that, in an ideal world where they're not shit. there are too many options that make the condition pointless
somber axle
there are threats far beyond what we're facing
tame lodge
wait what how
If all 4 get caught by dogs they just hop off on Malice
pastel yew
any area stagger
somber axle
tawny badger
pox hound pack vs one fire grenade
pastel yew
If all 4 get caught by dogs they just hop off on Malice
eh I'm not so sad about that I thought itd be a bug ;p malice players are primarily new players so like its probably best they dont get fucked
tawny badger
_and 704,323 player deaths_
for a wh40k battle that’s actually not bad I don’t think
pastel yew
dont worry, its big brother is coming
somber axle
for a wh40k battle that’s actually not bad I don’t think
how many prisoners do you think we had aboard to throw into the meat grinder?
tawny badger
how many prisoners do you think we had aboard to throw into the meat grinder?
bout a few
pastel yew
admittedly the knife is still better because of its other boosts
but the dueling sword mk4 is about to completely fuck up the game
serene bough
it should feel meaty and powerful, its a war cry
realistically Tactical Awareness should recieve the survivalist treatment before nerfing shout, i.e. only activating once every few seconds
somber axle
if 704k vanished before the Karnak Twins ever showed their faces the prison was probably not looking too full when they showed up
pastel yew
realistically Tactical Awareness should recieve the survivalist treatment before...
tac awareness is fine with the other two abilities though
shout is the outlier here
tawny badger
the female karnak twin whose name I forgot needs a job
serene bough
im not really a fan of tac awareness in general
tall torrent
I bought the death Korps Sabre just in time for this
pastel yew
tac awareness is also a good reward for doing your job
pastel yew
im not really a fan of tac awareness in general
without it exec stance would be useless
or not useless
but significantly weaker
and exec stance doesnt really need buffed or nerfed its in a good spot
serene bough
ideally exec stance should be active because you're able to keep its uptime, not because you can just spam refresh it imo
pastel yew
shout is just broken, full toughness refil and then some
serene bough
but exec stance isnt very good right now anyways
pastel yew
also the fact that the overtoughness is a buff that lasts, you can attack enemies to go back up to +50 is silly
somber axle
idk Exe Stance uptime would probably be fine despite a nerf to Tac Awareness since Relentless is now baked in so maintaining uptime is just a matter of keeping up one special or elite kill every 5 seconds
pastel yew
the melee thing sure, but the toughness regen I'm not as hot for
it gives a lot of combat offense benefits
somber axle
Tac Awareness nerf would hurt Infiltrate and Voice of Command more
pastel yew
it should be the higher skill glass cannon option imo
somber axle
they don't have any built in mechanic to maintain uptime
but VoC has crazy uptime right now anyway LOL
serene bough
i personally dont use tac awareness with infiltrate, so hurting VoC is kind of the point of a nerf to that perk
instead of just making shout inherently weaker
pastel yew
also although it doesnt give you toughness directly, it makes you far better able to trigger your other toughness generation on vet
so if you want toughness, you gotta kill for it
I wouldnt say thats true on veteran
and then its build dependant for other classes
I am also very like
not pro defensive buffs
I feel like the game is far too stacked in that regard already
I hope that now the new crafting system is out overall game balance becomes the primary focus
as our current roster is really great in design, but the numbers are not right
crushers dont tank, gunners dont do damage
flamers have been a non threat since the fire changes
also the regular bomber is just a worse pox bomber
tall torrent
I wouldnt say thats true on veteran
It pretty much is true for veteran
pastel yew
It pretty much is true for veteran
you have so many ways of generating toughness on kill on vet
tawny badger
Bradley what on earth are you talking about
tall torrent
you have so many ways of generating toughness on kill on vet
Ranged toughness gain is just worse
pastel yew
Bradley what on earth are you talking about
I mean feel free to point out where you feel I am wrong
pastel yew
Ranged toughness gain is just worse
oh for sure
but you're not in danger
you're just not immortal
you're more likely to receive some chip damage is all
you have to really really fuck up for a ranged enemy to become a threat
tall torrent
Yes that’s “in danger” compared to melee
pastel yew
like in the open, no toughness, no stamina levels of fucked up
tawny badger
gunners not doing damage, crushers not tanking
flamers are still a threat, they just can’t absolutely ruin everything you know and love after 1 frame of fire contact like they used to before
tall torrent
Gloryhunter + energy leakage for plasma
pastel yew
gunners not doing damage, crushers not tanking
flamers are still a threat, they...
I really don't agree, you kill gunners in auric by the handful and they dont ever do anything
gunners are effectively the chump of auric
with regular shooters being non existent
tawny badger
yeah because you kill them before they get the chance
pastel yew
slightly distant toughness health packs
pastel yew
yeah because you kill them before they get the chance
they dont do any damage if you have toughness because they dont stagger you while its up
also if you can literally kill every gunner before they become a threat... does that not support my point in that they do no damage?
tall torrent
I’m leaning towards leak + glory/gets hot
pastel yew
also the only class that struggles to explode crushers is the zealot at range unless they run two specific ranged weapons
they are not a good tank
tawny badger
also if you can literally kill every gunner before they become a threat... does ...
do you want them to stagger you while it’s up
tall torrent
also the only class that struggles to explode crushers is the zealot at range un...
Oh also they gave zealot crushers slaughterer
pastel yew
do you *want* them to stagger you while it’s up
I wouldnt be massively opposed to it
tall torrent
orchid hemlock
4% success rate on highest difficulty is hilarious
what changed? 🙂
pastel yew
also flamers do nothing since the rework to flame
tall torrent
Opportunist, slaughterer, thunderous, thrust
For zealot crusher
pastel yew
before they were a threat since fire damage could fuck your shield and make you vulnerable to perma damage
pastel yew
now they dont do that
orchid hemlock
@tall torrent dualing swords gonna be the best weapon on Vet?
pastel yew
Opportunist, slaughterer, thunderous, thrust
For zealot crusher
honestly I have tried the crusher exactly once when it came out and never since
tame lodge
Opportunist on Eviscerators are something....
pastel yew
people seem to really love that weapon
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> dualing swords gonna be the best weapon on Vet?
One of the best
Knife / duelling sword / combat axe
Top 3
Prob
pastel yew
<@366562874039992331> dualing swords gonna be the best weapon on Vet?
itll be theirbest anti carapace
but other weapons can do that and horde clear
pastel yew
mk6 power sword probably still retains its job as best vet melee with 0 melee support though
orchid hemlock
I thought dualing sword has better clear than knife
tall torrent
mk6 power sword probably still retains its job as best vet melee with 0 melee su...
Yea that’s kind of its role now
tawny badger
now they dont do that
flamers are still quite oppressive on downed people if anything, but them and scab bombers no longer instabreaking toughness is one of the best things fatshark did for me
orchid hemlock
assuming u have enough finnese and crit tho
tall torrent
I thought dualing sword has better clear than knife
No, knife is faster
pastel yew
flamers are still quite oppressive on downed people if anything, but them and sc...
it was a good change but they werent adjusted to compensate
fire damage should do more health damage ignoring toughness now
but as it stands its mostly just a " haha you cant see"
tall torrent
Duelling sword clear speed is like twice as slow as knife
It’s not comparable
It’s exclusively single target one trick but extremely busted at single target
pastel yew
also two previously class locked weapons
ggoing to the veteran
where it will be stronger than on the original class
mhm for sure
I love the heavy sword but it is not a comfy weapon
my finger always feels weird after using it for a mission or two
tall torrent
Still deathblow + headtaker?
pastel yew
from the constant heavy chain
tawny badger
zealot and psyker should get the shovel and power sword for compensation 
tall torrent
That one doesn’t activate vs carapace enemies tho
pastel yew
zealot and psyker should get the shovel and power sword for compensation <:shrug...
give them the plasma gun
even though it would ne
not all that insane on them
tawny badger
psyker plasma gun
pastel yew
would be fine with scriers gaze
and uhh the fun keystone I'm forgetting the name of
disrupt destiny
tall torrent
I’m leaning more towards chained deathblow with 20% crit chance
And just cope with exploit weakness
pastel yew
I just dont think vet really encourages you to jack of all trade weapons, when for each slot you already have something hyper optimized to nuke a specific group
you could just run kraks or a armor clearing ranged weapon
yeah but its anti carapace is garbo
its the same reason I dont get why people run the rending boosts on automatic weapons
its a lot of point sink for what can instead be pressing q or grenade slot
if true thats fair
vet weakspot damage do be sorta silly on melee
tall torrent
On the bright side
Psyker gets +10% melee atk speed
And malefic momentum now works like agile engagement
pastel yew
veterans get a dedicated melee tree which makes them the best melee damage in the game, zealots get ranged rending removed from their dash because they're a melee class
k e k w
tall torrent
Wait why
pastel yew
tall torrent
Yea but the moveset is still kinda ass?
Still H1 BC tho
Wish they gave it a better moveset
serene bough
tbh im more concerned about class identity than I am balance
i just hope they add more class themed weapons
tall torrent
And it still has super slow H2 H3 loop
Unless they changed that to Rashad speed
Yea that’s ass
tame lodge
Still deathblow + headtaker?
Yeah, ignore mass still busted
Hsword have some unique quirks depending on the mk and the attack
tall torrent
So it’s just H1 BC forever on every enemy now ig
pastel yew
tbh im more concerned about class identity than I am balance
what do you mean? classes still have their identity. You have the melee class, the veteran. You have the tank class, the veteran. You have the damage class, the veteran. And then you have the psyker
no way ogryn pans out better
psyker I could see for sure with scriers up
pastel yew
I still think that consistent ranged damage goes to the vet
though I am biased as I hate having my dps locked to an ability
tame lodge
veteran players are the best
Yeah when they are not playing with me 
pastel yew
also vets get still effectively infinite ammo
and imo are better with the marksman weapons
viable is
maybe excessive
like the surge staff isnt dog
its just completely outmatched at its job by the voidstrike
I'd rather not have one on my team though
tall torrent
They buffed it
pastel yew
They buffed it <:chadgryn:1161142998214656090>
wa
serene bough
in general id rather run a vet ilas build before i run ranged builds on other classes
tall torrent
wa
Souldrinker
Killing an Enemy with Soulblaze restores 5% Toughness and grants 5% critical Hit Chance for 5s.
serene bough
it isnt just dps imo
pastel yew
**Souldrinker**
Killing an Enemy with Soulblaze restores 5% Toughness and grants...
stacking or?
tall torrent
stacking or?
It’s still free
pastel yew
mmh
tall torrent
Think like this
tall torrent
U get way higher toughness regen and crit chance for free
tall torrent
And trauma never had high crit chance to begin with
tall torrent
whats the fucking point of it then <:BelieverCry:988562377014399006>
M1 spam (unironically viable)