veteran-class

[mortal orbit]

Doesnt it tell you how many heretics have been murdered as a whole already?

[midnight mesa]

Yes but I wanna know how much I personally murdered

[mortal orbit]

Keep track of that, with your big ridged brain

[midnight mesa]

But sah

I kill so many heretics

it goes past my fingers!

[mortal orbit]

But your brain grooves

Use them to membah

[candid agate]

can you show the build please?

[ocean idol]

skissue

people who play darktide without mods are 90 year old grannies who can't figure it out

which recon?

[magic trout]

It always have been top tier.
The only problem is to roll a good one with at least headhunter 3 and flak

[midnight mesa]

tbh waiting for the itemization update to install them

[magic trout]

I have one of the 3 msrks available and i almost never run out of ammo.
7d is awesome for delete elites
5a is boss melter
With the perk shock trooper and headhunter if you are mid good with aiming you will be deleting everything

[ocean idol]

Pretty sure 2 is way better than 5

2 also has very good hipfire compared to 7d

i used to like 7d the most

especially if you need to clear mixed hordes

but now leanbing towards 2

[midnight mesa]

although yes

i am a 90 year old granny in tech

so

...

a tech priest

[magic trout]

And the problem with that is?

[magic trout]

Because rate of fire.
7d has more damage per shot bit 2a has more RoF and more chances to crit and stack headhunter, also use less ammo per shot

[uncut pebble]

The mk7 also has cleave.

[lusty sapphire]

Oh a fairly young one then

[candid agate]

good to know

thanks

[somber axle]

Headhunter only providing 4% crit doesn't sound right

what's your metric for tracking the crit there

Do your post game stats track crits and you compare it vs the crits you have on matches without it?

I should test it more but that doesn't feel right

I almost never see Headhunter stacks at 5 for long

Yeah but each time it resets it's helping that crit

That sounds bizarrely unlucky LOL

At bare minimum it should provide +5% crit just because a single headshot means 5%

4% sounds funky

I think it's improving your crit chance

so a shot that wouldn't have been a crit

wouldn't have been

but a shot with headhunter made it crit

I should test it more but 4% sounds ridiculously low

And crit chance without Headhunter is already pretty low

[elder fiber]

Hh isn't critting here, ws is

[somber axle]

Like at best 5% Vet base, 5% talent, 5% perk for 15% unless you're including Deadshot and the new fire rate means unless you're stam curio stacking it can't hold up

[last parcel]

he also takes recip

[somber axle]

Ah ok that makes more sense on Recip

If you can maintain Recip max stacks throughout fights the crit chance makes sense there

Plus Weapon Specialist crit whenever you're swapping

Weapon Specialist feels too fun to pass up on the VId

the better fire rate is so good

The Mk II is mainly for ammo efficiency and the VIIa is for the cleave. The part I'm confused about is how you can afford to spend most of a match firing with the VId

even with solid crit chance it goes through ammo faster than the other two variants

Yeah so that's only another 360 shots yeah?

1360 shots for a match doesn't sound like a lot

Gotta be moving pretty fast to keep ammo tins/packs feeding it

Oh I forgor crates LOL

Yeah in solo I guess it makes sense

For quickplay I can't imagine leaning on a VId and sharing ammo with a team

That sounds kinda wild

[untold mulch]

I just come from a quickplay where the psyker and zealot gave me ammo priority while I was using the VId

[somber axle]

I'm not sure that's feasible for most players though

[untold mulch]

and didn'0t pick much

was fun

[somber axle]

It's definitely fun if you can make the most of the ammo pick ups

[untold mulch]

my onyl issue as of now when you get the clearly greedy players

[somber axle]

Outside of teams where players are heavily melee focused or you have staff psykers it feels like competition for ammo begins to bleed it dry

[untold mulch]

that are at 85%ish ammo

and vacuum ammo

[somber axle]

Speedrun to ammo packs/tins to avoid the goblins

[untold mulch]

sometimes it do be like that

like my man, I am at orange, please stop thinking on your own ass for a single second

as of now I have not required more than 2 full refills in a match

with scavenger

[somber axle]

I'm not sure the talent tax would let you hit the 5% crit chance talent node, Shock Trooper, Onslaught, Rending Strikes and a keystone if you go Surv Aura

[untold mulch]

oh, I am avoiding onslaught

I know I am losing damage, but eh

[somber axle]

you'd probably have to sacrifice Weapon Specialist to get Surv Aura with the usual stuff

[untold mulch]

oh I know, but I prefer having shocktrooper, iron will and the middle keystone

also run infiltrate

so my pathing is

.....

yeah

[ocean idol]

Why 2 sucks? It seems to be way better than 6

[somber axle]

Focus Target + Target Down is really fun with Deadshot but on the VId trying to get value out of Deadshot feels tricky

[untold mulch]

I don't remember onslaught needing only 2 points, let mecheck brb

[untold mulch]

I think 2 feels the most optimal?

[ocean idol]

and second blessing?

[untold mulch]

but VId is fun

like, I prefer having fun anyways

[somber axle]

They found it does a bunch more damage on the higher end when using it with Recip and maintaining stacks and for them they can keep their ammo at a healthy amount with the extra crit

The Mk II is still the king of ammo efficiency

[ocean idol]

All 3 recons have about same dps, difference is negligible

Like 1080-1130

[somber axle]

But they don't need the extra ammo efficiency

[ocean idol]

that range

[ocean idol]

Recip?

What kind of talents double damage on recon lol

[untold mulch]

I maybe can sacrifice my keystone for onslaught

but I like the toughness and stamina refill of tag

[somber axle]

Reciprocity talent for 5% crit chance per stack on dodge (only affected by dodging melee attacks, not ranged) but lasts 8 sec

So it's another 25% crit if you can keep max stacks

[untold mulch]

if it affected ranged I would run it

but melee, most of the time I will get good stacks against melee, I am with my Csword anyways

huh, never thought it could multitrigger

still, probably won't minmax, not like I am even running auric

yeah, I prefer knowing I have X

than a conditional Y

unless the conditional is incredible

I probably can get it in excahnge of the % damage buff to allies when tag enemy is killed

which is like... 6.5%?

[tall torrent]

redirect fire helps breakpoints with some weapons

[untold mulch]

yeah but using VId, so no "real breakpoints"

and planning for breakpoints with rando's is...yeah

[candid agate]

flak or maniac for boltgun? can only choose one

[delicate hornet]

maniac will probably help hit more breakpoints depending on build but its worth checking in the psykhanium

[candid agate]

ok, will do some testing tomorrow then

[gilded wraith]

Recommendations?

[lavish token]

Lacerate for smack down, carapace/flak for infested

[umbral scaffold]

LAWHAT

[junior needle]

lacerate

[midnight totem]

alrighty, anybody up for game?

[junior needle]

Lacerate is a bad blessing that actually slows down your clear if you try to leverage it

[lavish token]

@old prism

[old prism]

goddamnit this again?

[narrow frost]

lmao

[fossil basalt]

[junior needle]

Unless it's been buffed in my couple month absence

[fossil basalt]

it has not

[junior needle]

[fossil basalt]

the TL;DR is that Lacerate is bad because it activates on non-weakspot hits

knife is a weakspot weapon

[lavish token]

L

[old prism]

The thing about lacerate is, it's a great tool to spam lights. People severely underestimate the straight DPS of a uncanny buffed 16 bleed terror machine especially considering the attack speed you can stack on it

[serene bough]

🍿

[fossil basalt]

IMO it's better for a 6 than a 3

[serene bough]

im ready

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[fossil basalt]

3 is too single-target to use it properly

[old prism]

the strength of lacerate + uncanny strike is, you can still do heavy attacks to kill meatier targets after spamming 2-3 light attacks to the chest. This way you keep up your bleeds while dealing great damage to focus down single targets

[junior needle]

Even if you are lightspamming, you are still doing less damage by bodyshotting. You can also leverage bleed without the head bobbing playstyle of lacerate and uncanny.

[old prism]

yes, but if you wanna lean into that direction, you need to start stacking up crit chance and need at least around %50 of it to get more value out of flesh tearer while only aiming for heads

[junior needle]

Yes, you need 50% crit to match the average bleed applications. But then this also exceeds the damage because you are aiming for heads too.

There was one guy who did a video showing lacerate body shots having a slower clear time than a plain knife

[old prism]

You can still aim for the heads in the situations that don't require the bleed's help. Bleed is there to speed up the process on meatier targets by allowing you to only do a portion of the damage you need to do and let your bleed to the rest of the work

[junior needle]

That was aiming for heads

[old prism]

Think about it like this though

[junior needle]

Knife can achieve 1-2 taps on every normal enemy with heavies

[old prism]

Those tests are always done in ideal situations where you can always get headshots. In the heat of the mess that is auric damnation, knowing that you inflicted an x amount of bleed stacks to an enemy is really valuable. Most of the times you won't be able to land clean headshots back to back on important elite targets to deal the exact damage you need to kill an enemy.

[junior needle]

Bodyshotting for bleed stacks and letting it tick down is not an efficient way of handling enemies comparatively

[old prism]

Lacerate cuts down the time you spend on each enemy by doing quick light attacks to inflict bleed allowing you to switch targets quickly in battle

[midnight totem]

... man I kinda to build a bleed powersword

[old prism]

And if you need to stab an armoured enemy to death, you still DO have 5 stacks of uncanny to help you

[midnight totem]

why? dunno. might be funny

[delicate hornet]

i mean i use mk3 but ive never had issue hitting heavy headshots in auric maelstrom

[junior needle]

You need 4 attacks minimum to 16 stack bleed with lacerate

[old prism]

so the ideal approach to tankier enemies is doing light attacks to apply your initial bleed stacks and then focus on headshotting

[junior needle]

That's 4 gimped attacks per enemy

[fossil basalt]

do it please

[old prism]

most of the times you don't need to do pure dmg because of how powerful lacerate gets with uncanny strike

[midnight totem]

I'm trying to find the energy to play a round as zealot first

[old prism]

keep in mind I'm arguing about uncanny buffed lacerate

[lavish token]

lacerate kills so much more than you think

[old prism]

not only lacerate

lacerate by itself isn't strong enough to kill only through bleed stacks, but uncanny buffed lacerate is

[last parcel]

slaughterer boosting bleed damage

[midnight totem]

nah

[old prism]

I do agree lacerate uncanny is a little weaker on veteran compared to on zealot because of just how powerful the synergies on zealot gets with bleed stacks

[midnight totem]

SUPERCHARGE @last parcel

[last parcel]

HELL YEAH

[old prism]

But it's still good enough to take care of pretty much anything in the game

[lusty sapphire]

Just supercharge slaughterer

Duh

[midnight totem]

still need power cycler

[lusty sapphire]

Nah you are not thinking about the bleed hard enough if you need cycler

[old prism]

The loss in initial light attack headshots aren't as relevant as the damage you are gaining from having amped up bleed stacks

[lusty sapphire]

Just spam activation

[midnight totem]

whats better then bleed? electrifying bleed thats what

[radiant chasm]

or just do flesh tearer

[radiant chasm]

yes it is

[last parcel]

exploit weakness too

[radiant chasm]

flesh tearer means either the target dies from your weakspot hits and you don't need bleed

or you crit and get bleed and then you have extra damage

simple

[delicate hornet]

flesh tearer crit headshot one-shotting chaff on lights is also strong as hell

[old prism]

bleed stacks being consistent is way more damage compared to just aiming for the head since it allows me to not have to focus on doing individual headshots per enemy and focus on just light mashing through enemies while keeping my uncanny stacks up

cleaving through applying every enemy hit bleed is real nice

flesh tearer isn't consistent enough for low crit chance setups (<%50 crit chance) because you'd need at least 2 hits at %50 crit chance to proc 8 stacks of bleed. If you aren't focusing on flesh tearer bleed stacks as the main component of your build, then take a damage blessing instead because that would help you way more in an individual focusing playstyle

[junior needle]

Lacerate is also a more troll option on zealot, due to the immense amount of crit you can get with the tree.

The only upside is slightly faster stack gathering on that one talent

scourge? iirc

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-40k-psyker-explode-perils-gif-10586129510772702813

[junior needle]

When 2/3 abilities also give you a guaranteed crit to get you going

[old prism]

You do understand that I am arguing on low crit chance setups that go for IJ or martyrdom, not blazing piety. When you have more than >50%, flesh tearer is more consistent and worth more than lacerate

so yes, if you are going blazing piety and have around %75 crit chance yes go flesh tearer

[delicate hornet]

why would you wanna run knifes with a low crit setup tho

[radiant chasm]

if you have low crit chance setups you should go riposte

[old prism]

because the damage amps do apply on your bleed stacks

[radiant chasm]

and ignore bleed entirely

[delicate hornet]

stack riposte and reciprocity for funny guarantee crits

[radiant chasm]

and even if you go IJ, you still have scourge on zealot specifically as well as fotf and shroud. but for vet, you have crit sources as well that should be easy takes depending on your weapon,

[junior needle]

Scourge gives 30% crit iirc, so you hit 50% with just the dagger crit/scourge/natty crit from class

[radiant chasm]

^

[old prism]

at %50 itself lacerate is more consistent in applying stacks, when it gets above %50 flesh tearer is consistent enough to proc more often than not

[radiant chasm]

making fleshtearer= lacerate, except you also get weakspot hits, making flesh tearer a no brainer

you DON't need to proc it tho

that's the whole point, you are playing worse to do something mid, instead of just being consistently good

[austere mica]

WHY are we talking about lacerate

[junior needle]

Lacerate would be more consistent if you gimp the direct damage of your applying attacks

[radiant chasm]

zealot chat infection, it's terminal

[junior needle]

at 50%

While I very much understand the appeal of the bleed centric lightspam playstyle, it's the only thing I play (on zealot) for awhile now

[old prism]

Mate, if you don't need to proc it then don't use flesh tearer, go for riposte like you said. But if you go riposte instead, you'd be doing a more heavy attack focused build that goes for damage breakpoints. We are not individually focusing down each enemy on a lacerate setup allowing us to have overall way more control over mass enemy spawns and elites

[austere mica]

It’s trivially easy for zealot to hit 50% crit on knife and flesh tearer doesn’t anti synergy with the entire weapon

[junior needle]

Lacerate is just a poorly designed blessing that's one of the very few to gimp you for activating it. I would not recommend using it due to the loss of efficacy it entails for forcing that kind of playstyle absent a crit setup+flesh tearer.

[radiant chasm]

or you can go flesh tearer, and still kill mass spawns by aiming at their head.

the only time lacerate feels "good" is when you play mk3 without using your PA and special combos to kill multiple enemies a swing

aka just brainlessly spamming lights

and you'll still be below the guy with flesh tearer always going for weakspots

idk where consistent mass enemy control even comes from

sounds like a youtuber buzzword

[austere mica]

It’s not knifes job anyway

[junior needle]

I use the mk3 and lightspam everything on my zealot anyway

[austere mica]

Just grab a flamer

[radiant chasm]

yes, if you constatnly swipe lights at chest level, enemies will bleed out

[junior needle]

But I do have like 80% crit/uncanny/FT

[radiant chasm]

you can also just, 3x your damage by hitting weakspots and using your actual combos

and kill them faster

[old prism]

you are relying on pure luck to proc those bleed stacks again. That is literally the exact opposite of consistency. We are doing a consistent bleed setup. 8-12-16 bleed stacks have insane killing potential with uncanny up. And you have enough attack speed to just inflict it and leave it to die.

The flesh tearer guy needs to get very lucky to keep up his scourge while also somehow dealing more damage compared to me with his inconsistent bleeds. He is individually focusing down targets with heavy attacks while I am mass murdering people with my consistent bleed dps.

[radiant chasm]

it's a good weapon

there is no consistent and good bleed setup

that's the fact

[junior needle]

It's the weakest knife and need a buff for horde clear

[radiant chasm]

if you want consistency you don't play lacerate you play riposte cause you have the best dodges in the game and the buff lasts for 6 seconds

[delicate hornet]

ive never struggled with horde clear on mk3 when using reciprocity and desperado

[old prism]

im down to do one run right now, same game you and me. If you can outdps me in one single run with a flesh tearer setup I'll give you all the rights to brag and I'll back down

up for it?

[radiant chasm]

"individually focusing" you mean killing multiple enemies in a PA

[junior needle]

It's not a matter of struggling, but comparative speed

[austere mica]

If you want to play consistency don’t run a bleed knife

[radiant chasm]

I don't need to prove myself to you, go take a shower instead and cooldown

[junior needle]

mk3 lights can't get anywhere close to mk6 heavy clear times or any of the real horde mulchers like chainswords

[radiant chasm]

chswords is such a mulcher it's insane

[junior needle]

Alright let's cool down the conversation, it's only a game

[radiant chasm]

knife is just a "good enough" weapon baseline but the more you learn and use the depth of your weapon, the higher up it goes, but many people don't use knife to it's full potential

[lavish token]

we can post scoreboards to prove you otherwise

[old prism]

welp, kinda sad. I gave you a chance to prove that individual focusing would do more dps. If you claim lacerate is irrelevant and a flesh tearer setup would do more in a game you would have the guts to prove it rn

[junior needle]

While the scoreboard is a helpful tool, it is highly contaminated with numerous circumstantial factors and not really trustworthy for objective comparisons

[old prism]

we can repeat it for a bigger pool of results to pull from. Down for doing more than 10 runs.

[radiant chasm]

there you go then

do it personally and don't throw the results

[lavish token]

Tanner takes in chat

[radiant chasm]

after all scientifically for the best results it should be you on both lacerate and flesh tearer

[junior needle]

You can repeat it, but that doesn't change the nature of the comparison. I can achieve higher numbers simply by being sweatier than my teammates, but that doesn't prove my setup is better.

[radiant chasm]

me topfragging by 200k damage with prebuff chaxe

[old prism]

it would be but we are capped at 16 bleed stacks, uncanny buff is much more important at doing dps compared to just reaching max stacks faster

[radiant chasm]

how does it

[radiant chasm]

i meant as separate games

go do it yourself, don't rope me into your ego trip

but even then, there is the variable of teammates, map, spawns, comfort with weapon and blessings

i think lacerate is okay as well, especially for the reasons you mentioned

i just keep a fine line between "lacerate can work" and "lacerate is a competitive option"

[serene bough]

lacerate bad and is heresy

pls stop all heresy

[lavish token]

you are bad and heresy

[radiant chasm]

it's basically just covering for weakness/poor play/ limitations, and that's fine, not every blessing needs to be relatively "high" skill like precog, thrust, lightning reflexes

[serene bough]

oh

[narrow frost]

I saw a knife blessing once

[radiant chasm]

precog is for zealot imo, cause of it's duelist interaction

[junior needle]

I was going to mention that. If you can't maintain headshots and bodyshot everything anyway, and insist on using knife despite this, lacerate can help you there. Although at that point I'd recommend another non-finesse based weapon.

[radiant chasm]

i recomnend chaxe mk4 tbh, lower end of finesse and it absolutely stat checks with double power blessings

[lavish token]

why would I go piety?

For precog

[junior needle]

I use mk3 knife lightspam with FT on my zealot and this approach is definitely not optimal, but I still outperform the vast majority of pubs just by being comparatively quite sweaty.

[lavish token]

When IJ exists

[radiant chasm]

never said piety

[last parcel]

to get a reformation belief to choose jesuit reformation and rush universities with faith

[lavish token]

and I can push more damage faster

[lavish token]

civ reference

[radiant chasm]

but if you wanna start this argument again can you take it to my dms so i can mute and ignore it?

please and thankyou

i said duelist,

duelist talent is overperforming with precog because of a calculation error/quirk on fatshark's part

which uhh, actually does make piety weigh more cause then you can also get the crit damage part of your finesse calculation more reliably

[junior needle]

I also almost forgot, but if you run lacerate (or serrated blade) you can snipe kill credit from others by virtue of guaranteed (if low) applications and due to how DOT attribution works.

[radiant chasm]

^

[junior needle]

If I apply 1 bleed stack with serrated, and my bleed zealot gets the other 15 stacks and it dies to bleed

[radiant chasm]

that is part of why it "feels good"

[junior needle]

I get the credit

[old prism]

Not everything requires you to have strictly fast kill times through hard damage with attacks. Letting DPS work its magic will for sure take more time compared to instakilling it with one headshot on a uncanny precog knife but you can split your focus into multiple enemies and let your bleed work on them.
This allows you to inflict your stacks on important targets at the same time compared to individual beatdown. The knife itself has enough damage with zealot damage increases and uncanny 5 stacks to push attack kill individual enemies without requiring another blessing yes but we also have that option on a lacerate setup to finish an enemy off that requires the extra heavy attack.

[radiant chasm]

or you can go fleshtearer and get the best of both worlds

bleed and focus on killing enemies quickly

[austere mica]

Why are we talking about the CC of a knife, flamer and throwing knives exist

[radiant chasm]

and honestly i'm just going to ignore the convo from here on out, it's pretty clear where I stand, unless you purposefully play worse/talent avoiding crit entirely, flesh tearer will give you the same relative value of lacerate without losing the value of weakspots, gives you more consistent uncanny (or azrael going riposte+FT but they take kraks and anti armor ranged option)

[lavish token]

I can post exclusive bleed damage if you want

[radiant chasm]

like i get it, i too once thought lacerate was the hot shit, I didn't learn until they finally buffed flesh tearer to 8 stacks and i started putting in effort to hit weakspots and use my PAs and special->attack combos

[radiant chasm]

if you are aiming for weakspots and killing enemies, flesh tearer is going to have less bleed damage yes

[lavish token]

He’s better than you, true solo or die

[radiant chasm]

as well as if you aren't stacking crit chance

[radiant chasm]

🧀

[junior needle]

Alright calm it down homies

[radiant chasm]

like if you gotta pull "I do true solo" out of your ass instead of posting numbers/math you are just an ego tripper like lmao congrats you are mechanically great at the game, you are better than the legally blind, brain damaged player! here is your medal, doesn't really make you automatically right

[junior needle]

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to poopoo on playstyle preferences (which are the same as mine, the difference is how we get there) but I think lacerate is just poorly designed and should not be recommended without a disclaimer of "you're sacrificing efficacy for a subjectively comfortable playstyle and there may be better ways to get this".

[radiant chasm]

^

[lavish token]

Lacerate is an automatic 3 hit without requiring crits to a crusher

That’s the specific interaction

[radiant chasm]

if uncanny is already stacked yes?

[junior needle]

Pretty sure 12 bleed stacks won't kill the crusher, especially without uncanny

[lavish token]

Why would you not have uncanny stacked

You can do both at the same time

[radiant chasm]

cause you hit the chest 3 times with lacerate

or you can just

[junior needle]

Uncanny needs headshots to stack, lacerate needs bodyshots

[narrow frost]

bruh

[orchid hemlock]

Uhhhh so bleed knife viable? 🤔

[junior needle]

Am I missing some interaction?

[radiant chasm]

combo the crushers head, but then we are skipping crits so the 4th swing is def unacceptable, much more than the uncanny maintenance swings which don't count, for reasons

[lavish token]

Special light heavy to weak spot, light to chest

Dead in 2 seconds, switch targets immediately

[orchid hemlock]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9cbaecf3-5349-4ce9-ac61-fbeffcdd1df3/e571a13c-2dbe-4c78-a314-16f8f4f0337a?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[dreamy scaffold]

redrum

[junior needle]

So two uncanny stacks in a vacuum and 4 bleed stacks?

[lavish token]

I can maintain maxed stacks of uncanny for 20 mins out of 25 min runs

Consistently

It saves time for ultra aggressive play

[radiant chasm]

and have you scientifically compared that without lacerate equipped?

[junior needle]

That's why I said in a vacuum, practical circumstances can vary wildly

[lavish token]

Yes

[radiant chasm]

ok i'll calm down with the scientifically compared cause i'm just using it to mock

[lavish token]

It’s also quite nice for horde clear, boss damage and when you miss

[junior needle]

But in that example, it's really just the the two heavy profile attacks (push attack does heavy damage)

Doing most of the work

[orchid hemlock]

The real question is, why are we talking about a Zealot build in Vet chat? 🤔 🤔 🤔

[lavish token]

Pa costs stamina, enough to the point I only use it if I am forced to

[radiant chasm]

knifes best horde clear is from multikilling, and bleed does low damage to half the hordes in the game (infested)

[junior needle]

It's more a conversation on knives and not explicitly zealot

[fossil basalt]

knife builds are universal, is where it started

[orchid hemlock]

Is it? Is there a decent bleed build for Vet? 🤔

[radiant chasm]

and unarmored isn't exactly taxing on knife to stab down

[radiant chasm]

mercy killer+ uncanny strike with the serrated blade talent or flesh tearer riposte with kraks and anti armor ranged

[lusty sapphire]

Every class that has the knife has the tools to make knife shine

[junior needle]

I wouldn't really recommend bleed setups on vet personally but that's just me. You can get about 55% with some more legwork on vet with recip

And that other talent uh

[radiant chasm]

and crit chance node

desperado

[orchid hemlock]

Flesh terrier AND lacerate

[junior needle]

It's not as much or as on demand compared to zealot

[radiant chasm]

terrier

[serene bough]

bark

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/izfrauds-dog-angry-triggered-smile-gif-22578581

[orchid hemlock]

Yes

[austere mica]

And vet can also get 100% uptime mercykiller

[junior needle]

No, you need uncanny for making bleed do better damage

[austere mica]

While running uncanny

[orchid hemlock]

Where did Ainz go? 🤔

[old prism]

I'm back, lets continue the conversation

[orchid hemlock]

I need to ask, how tf does Ainz play this game 24/7

[dreamy scaffold]

multitasking

and a severe committment

other than that, insanity is on the table

[orchid hemlock]

Bruh I already want to go to sleep after 5 auric runs

How does this guy stream his runs all day long

[radiant chasm]

lacerate haymaker 😤

the best build

[dreamy scaffold]

those are some big words

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-40k-psyker-explode-perils-gif-10586129510772702813

[radiant chasm]

thanks i learned them from my pub teammates

[lavish token]

He doesn’t

I do

[radiant chasm]

i will never forget the haymaker mk3 knife veteran squaring up with a horde, spamming heavies

[mental cloud]

What the hell does haymaker even do? lol

[radiant chasm]

and then getting beat to death

[dreamy scaffold]

i refuse to trust pub teammates to do anything except die

[radiant chasm]

chance to oneshot non boss enemies on chained heavy attack, up to 20%

[narrow frost]

shrimple

[radiant chasm]

it is really bad on knife

[old prism]

So flesh tearer dps varies wildly depending on you getting a crit or not. With a crit chance of %50 your flesh tearer inflicting bleed is literally a coinflip. Half of the time you are playing with just uncanny strike on your weapon. With lacerate we don't worry about that because the chance to inflict is %100. I'mm losing the 100 damage I'd get per swing to the head but I'm getting consistently stacking dps instead which is what's important

[radiant chasm]

and really not bad on ogryn clubs

[lavish token]

I should post the 15k civ 5

[radiant chasm]

we moved on now it's haymaker knife time

[orchid hemlock]

Where do yall find this time?

[old prism]

nah its fine, i'd like to argue a bit more about the topic

[radiant chasm]

you mean repeat yourself

[lavish token]

[radiant chasm]

with an already countered statement?

[orchid hemlock]

Flesh terrier plus lacerate is the best build

Done and dusted

[radiant chasm]

^

flesh terrier

that should be the name of the cybermastiff a new class gets

[wild tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/muppet-kermit-the-frog-type-typing-type-writer-gif-3991777

[austere mica]

The existence of a flesh terrier implies the existence of a bone terrier

[orchid hemlock]

Can we move on to posting femboy vet memes? 😔

[radiant chasm]

dogmeat move aside

it's flesh terrier now

[umbral scaffold]

its alot of calories reguardless of the name guys.

[austere mica]

Never beating Koromaru

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/kal-jerico-thats-the-fun-part-finding-out-necromunda-hired-gun-gif-24366861

[orchid hemlock]

Skaven in ZZZ confirmed 😔

[radiant chasm]

no good cyber mastiff gifs on the search function smh

[junior needle]

On average with 50% crit it is the same bleed performance, though I will agree that hit or miss can anecdotally feel bad. With that taken into account though, with 50% crit and FT you will simply do more damage overall due to your bleed stacking not being tied to bodyshots (which do like 1/3 the damage).

[orchid hemlock]

Ew that's a lot of words

I require Twitter sized based/cringe analysis

[austere mica]

I feel like we are all ignoring that crits do more damage

[radiant chasm]

tbh, this is like the 3rd time this evening they've been told exactly this and they will just continue overvalue'ing bleed

[old prism]

hence why consistency is better, since you control what enemy gets how many stacks. That's the reason lacerate outdps's fleshtearer on anything below and including %50 crit chance setups with the help on uncanny

[radiant chasm]

lacerate is not "what's important"

[manic cloak]

Yeah, but have you considered Haymaker? I feel like it's really under represented.

[orchid hemlock]

I prefer using the Tac Axe

[manic cloak]

Bleed is a crutch. It's for those that can't kill an enemy in the first hit.

[radiant chasm]

the consistency of weakspots>the consistency of bleed. and you can still get bleed while having the consistency of weakspots, so i don't see a point for lacerate

[radiant chasm]

true

[manic cloak]

Kind of gross imho

[radiant chasm]

lol i can't fathom what fatshark was thinking adding haymaker to 2 entirely different weapons

the ogryn clubs, where it is great and clearly absolute swarms of hordes and elites

[old prism]

This is what we are arguing about. You are saying weakspots > bleed, and I'm saying bleed > weakspots in the case of lacerate in most combat encounters with a lacerate uncanny knife

[orchid hemlock]

Nah the best blessing for knife is:

[radiant chasm]

and then knives, which is completely sucks on

[manic cloak]

This guy has a better cat discord profile pic, and is therefore more credible in this debate.

[radiant chasm]

if they removed staggered enemy this would actually be an alright pick

[mental cloud]

So I’m building a haymaker smackdown knife when I get home.

Got it

[austere mica]

Make sure it’s a mk3

[old prism]

its not like you can't hit headshots with a lacerate knife as well. If you know an enemy's hp breakpoints push attack into the head has the same effect as a flesh tearer uncanny knife and the same damage.

[uncut pebble]

Can you imagine killing your target on a punch?

[radiant chasm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1243370563045556294/image-22.png?ex=66d31652&is=66d1c4d2&hm=68416ee7ced9ea9f95134c6622494e5eb10348f54b1c87775355c256bdb43144&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

3.0 finesse scaling

OR

55 damage

[junior needle]

hence why consistency is better, since you control what enemy gets how many stacks.
That sounds like a headache to play if you're trying to micromanage bleed stacks on a bunch of targets, but I suppose it is consistent if anything.
That's the reason lacerate outdps's fleshtearer on anything below and including %50 crit chance setups with the help on uncanny
Now this part I'm quite unsure about, as bleed doesn't add that much dps and weakspot hits get quite nutty in terms of big numbers (also you can spam PA very fast). What circumstances are you basing this on?

[radiant chasm]

y'all said to post numbers here y'all go

[orchid hemlock]

Me punching a crusher and giving them max bleed:

[old prism]

Remember, this is without %120 rending you get from uncanny strike which will pretty much be on the entire game since you can hordeclear by aiming for the head with or without flesh tearer or lacerate

[radiant chasm]

a cumalitive damage of 55 at a 1.0 armor mod

[junior needle]

I find the bleed from FT helps my clear a lot with the mk3

[radiant chasm]

which doesn't work on infested or unarmored, is instantly converted to damage at the 1/4th rate on maniac, and only significantly does that first 25% of both unyielding and flak. so you are left with carapace

[junior needle]

mk3 knife has pretty poor horde clear

[austere mica]

I am still confused as to why we are talking about the horde clear of the worst horde clear melee weapon in the entire game

[radiant chasm]

mk3 has okay and then poor horde clear it just depends on who and how it's being used

[junior needle]

But like nobody uses that anymore

[orchid hemlock]

Wait people still use MK3? 🤔

[junior needle]

Push attacking for single target is very uh, new concept for me

I feel like we talked about this at some point and I tried it

[orchid hemlock]

OK but this is Vet chat

[junior needle]

And I couldn't maintain push attacks on my zealot

[sweet pivot]

is this still good

[orchid hemlock]

I don't use knife on any of my builds

[radiant chasm]

DORN nerd reacted

[sweet pivot]

i just hopped back on this game

[radiant chasm]

supercharge sucks but otherwise it's great

[austere mica]

3/4, very sad

[radiant chasm]

it will keel

[orchid hemlock]

Leave while u still can

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/itwillkill-forgedinfire-it-will-kill-gif-5240853

[austere mica]

I would use it and look for something better

[sweet pivot]

supercharge got nerfed?

bro

[radiant chasm]

it's all BM or Sunder now

[sweet pivot]

so this game is buns now

[junior needle]

I was very disappointed. It seemed like better clear but only for spurts of time before you had to let your stamina recharge

[radiant chasm]

"buns" i don't think supercharge was ever that good was it?

it was PC +slaught

[orchid hemlock]

Nah it just that BM is giga broken, regardless of what it son

[faint beacon]

bro holy fucking shit what am I missing in here

[radiant chasm]

then BM was reworked

[faint beacon]

watching Vet chat explode

[radiant chasm]

lacerate

[sweet pivot]

supercharge was tuff i remember

[austere mica]

Oh no the most overpowered melee is only really good now

[orchid hemlock]

Zealot chat has taken over

[fading yarrow]

What's the dump stat for the MK 1 Hellbore?

[sweet pivot]

yea he has a point

[radiant chasm]

i think the rending rework killed it cause power sword has great ADMs

[orchid hemlock]

Your mom

[sweet pivot]

it was my top melee

my goat

[orchid hemlock]

Sorry I'm a combat axe believer

[austere mica]

I am using hyperbole

[radiant chasm]

remember 7 power cycler swings

[lusty sapphire]

Come on, 5+ power swings early on and you tell me it wasn't top

[radiant chasm]

remember the review bombing when they nerfed power sword from 3 base, 5 pc3 and 7 pc4 to 1 base, 2 pc3, 3 pc4

[lusty sapphire]

It had unlimited cleave too

[junior needle]

Yep, I remember that clip. Fast clear, but only while your stamina lasts, and then your speed goes down considerably. The hitbox didn't feel very generous to the sides either.

[sweet pivot]

is the plamsa still ok

[orchid hemlock]

U know what still has unlimited cleave? Purge staff 😎

[radiant chasm]

the only reason a lot of weapons weren't discovered to be tops is because the crafting system sucked

[lusty sapphire]

Same for antax lmao

[sweet pivot]

idk what happened with the shattering

[radiant chasm]

you couldn't reliably get pinning 4 on bolter and shredder

[austere mica]

It also only works when enemies are stacked like that

[last parcel]

they are having the lacerate discussion again

[radiant chasm]

never been a huge kobold fan

i've been told i have goblin energy

[crude fiber]

Anyone have the "while you mastered the blade" meme about knife zealot,

[orchid hemlock]

OK I have na idea everyone

[orchid hemlock]

Why are we talking about knife Zealot in the Vet chat? 🤔

[old prism]

also because of the guaranteed crits, you'll keep your scourge up for way more of the game. If you get one crit with lacerate, enemies start bleeding with 10 stacks. The conversion rate is irrelevant on maniacs (especially) ragers because most ragers will die to 10-12 stacks of uncanny buffed bleed (deals roughly 500 dps) which is only two chest hits. flak bleeds with around 540 damage per second on only 10 stacks of bleed on 5 stacks on uncanny so its devastating because you can cleave on flak very easily and inflict this to multiple flak enemies. Carapace requires 1-2 body stabs and push attack headshots to remove almost immediately (maulers you dont even need to hs) and bulwarks bleed to death since you don't need to headshot them. Just need to hit their wrists.

Both flesh tearer and lacerate will max 16 stacks really fast anyways so not relevant for bossing, since you can keep up stacks while headshotting (you still inflict 2 stacks on crit)

Unarmoured trash dies in one-two headshots or two bodyshots at worst, gunners are easy prey to only two body stabs quickly. All the attack I have can cleave as well.

You guarantee all of this by just sacrificing 150 dmg on light attack headshots (with damage buffs I didn't include into bleed)

[orchid hemlock]

No

[radiant chasm]

this is vet chat

[junior needle]

Not by the light attacking stretch

[old prism]

It is fine, the damage rates are the mostly the same, even more with veteran sometimes.

[radiant chasm]

and unless you are going IJ and not using shroud OR fotf, you have a guaranteed crit to start scourge off anyways

[junior needle]

Or the "Doesn't need to expend stamina" one

[faint beacon]

Lacerate this FT that, I simply am not burdened by this discussion for I believe in Tactical Axe

that or Shovel

[crude fiber]

Vet chat is basically the better zealot chat since zealot chat us rarely actually talking about zealots

[radiant chasm]

so -150 dmg for +55 damage overtime?

[junior needle]

3 does have objectively better light attacks compared to the 6

[orchid hemlock]

TRUUUUUUU

[junior needle]

Better for single target, but obviously not clear

[radiant chasm]

can you do the meme "i'm a knife zealot so that means"

[orchid hemlock]

Cleave is better on Mk6 that's all I need to know 🚶🏻

[radiant chasm]

i forogt how it was worded

[old prism]

more like 300 damage but 360 dps with uncanny on flak

[radiant chasm]

no

read the chart

[junior needle]

the 6 has 2x heavies with cleave, and then 1 without any cleave

Which is lame

[orchid hemlock]

This is Vet chat

No

[junior needle]

Don't know that one, also I didn't make these

[orchid hemlock]

Also heavies have higher cleave is what I'm saying

[junior needle]

The heavies on the 3 knife have zero cleave

eggs dee

[radiant chasm]

it's more like 100-120 damage at most because rending only has full value up to 100% ADM

[junior needle]

Also the one stab on the mk6 heavies

[radiant chasm]

then it's reduced by 1/4th to convert into damage

[junior needle]

Also rending caps at 100% apparently

[radiant chasm]

AS WELL, uncanny 4 is actually overkill because an individual player can only benefit from 100% rending from combined sources

[orchid hemlock]

PAs also have better cleave

[junior needle]

So 120% rending from t4 uncanny? 20 is always wasted.

[orchid hemlock]

Which is weird 🤔

[radiant chasm]

yep

[crude fiber]

Is over rending not converted to damage at 1/4 rate?

[junior needle]

It is

[radiant chasm]

there is 2 rending caps, one soft, one hard

[old prism]

As I said, I'm down to compare all of my games with flesh tearer users. I'm down to do the same games, I'm down to play more than 50, even 100 games as a duo. We can make a pool of results to compare to finally put an end to the debate.

[crude fiber]

What is the hard cap?

[radiant chasm]

rending applied after hitting 100% armor damage modifier is converted to damage at 1/4th rate, but a player is also capped to 100% rending stat from all sources

[junior needle]

The hard cap is the rending to the target, which is 100%. So if you have a target with 0% adm, and you have 120 rending, you only get 100% with no bonus damage.

[crude fiber]

Ah I see, that's why it doesn't do anything for unarmored or infested

[radiant chasm]

that isn't scientifically fair because I am only an impaired auric maelstrom player

[old prism]

If any of you is interested in putting results together dm me so I can put together a pool of data

[radiant chasm]

you should play 50 games with lacerate and 50 games with flesh tearer

that way it is fair

[old prism]

I can do that

[radiant chasm]

and no one has to waste their time

[old prism]

in fact I probably did do that

[radiant chasm]

and then you will be like what dorn said "lacerate gets more bleed damage in my games than flesh tearer" 🫡

[orchid hemlock]

Lacerate plus FT is broken don't u get it

Just go for the balls

[radiant chasm]

i mean i posted a chart y'all haven't posted jack so get to it templar

[old prism]

But. But that's the point. We are arguing is lacerate is more consistent overall compared to flesh tearer. If lacerate is continuing to outdps flesh tearer that would make it better

[radiant chasm]

i'll, be waiting

[orchid hemlock]

Fuck "weakspots"

[radiant chasm]

no no no, he's doing more bleed damage, not more damage

it's because the enemy is dying from the weakspot hits

[radiant chasm]

is this from one of them gacha games

[serene bough]

pls no weeb

[radiant chasm]

why do gacha games occasionally come out with great character designs

but the gameplay is just shit

[orchid hemlock]

HOYO is just built diff then 😔

Gooner core Nikki

[old prism]

we are going to look at total damage results on the same map with the same modifiers. Sure it will differ from game to game since it's controlled by a director, but if one setup is consistently getting outdamaged by the other one there's a difference

[last parcel]

maybe to make the character more desirable to make people roll more, but idk i don't listen to gachi

[midnight mesa]

Gacha games are literally about selling characters tbh

[radiant chasm]

good have fun testing it, get to it

[heavy rover]

i think you mean gacha. gachi is... something else

[radiant chasm]

had a friend spend a lot of cash to get the chainsaw man characters

[last parcel]

slaaaave! get your ass back here

[midnight mesa]

Although the current weapon system reminds me the RNG hell that is Artifact and Relic farming

[orchid hemlock]

Ew vtubers 🤢

This is where I cross the line

[radiant chasm]

oh yea install that mod that lets you rerun missions even if they fell off the board

you'll need it for 100 runs of the same map

[iron marten]

Haha

[midnight mesa]

There is a huge connection with Anime and 40k generally

[junior needle]

Even spread out over more games, it'll ultimately still be contaminated (that's before getting into the weeds with other things like build differences for each setup or tester bias/differences).

I appreciate the effort you're willing to put in but the end result is probably not worth it.

[heavy rover]

there is?

I'm learning something new everyday

[midnight mesa]

Probably because 40k has references to some anime in general

Like the Eldar are just

[orchid hemlock]

It's actually crazy that vtubers get away with shit that other streamers literally loose their careers over ☠️

[radiant chasm]

but orcka, i was a vtuber

[midnight mesa]

Weebs

Their Mechas are straight up Evangelion

[radiant chasm]

i'm on hiatus cause i can't stream on my network where i live

[crude fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-fan-detected-opinion-rejected-gif-25772991

[midnight mesa]

The Tau are closer to Gundam tho

[iron marten]

I only somewhat got into 40k cause of darktide, so

[old prism]

that's the most objective thing I can put out to support my point. And I think it'd actually be good as a start in case someone wants to refer to it later or expand on it.

[orchid hemlock]

Literally vtubers started the whole drama of the Hogwartz legacy shit, and thousands of trans people had to suffer for it

[midnight mesa]

Oh yeah also unlike the Tau, the Eldar actually go into melee with Katanas.

And also use

SHRUIKEN LAUNCHERS

[orchid hemlock]

They also say the most racist shit imaginable

[midnight mesa]

They fucking shoot out shurikens

[heavy rover]

i've been getting into 40k because of darktide and because of the audiobooks. I've gone through many thanks to my commute

[orchid hemlock]

Or striaght up admit they are into little kids

[junior needle]

You may want to consider psyk showcases for kill times between varying amounts of enemies.

[orchid hemlock]

Literally no reptocusions ☠️

[midnight mesa]

Oh yeah also

https://tenor.com/view/water-cat-cat-cat-bath-gif-8375496536506751533

water car

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/play-fight-the-pet-collective-ferret-cute-adorable-gif-17051137

[midnight mesa]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1033420008694501389/1277649155866492948/attachment.gif

[junior needle]

Of course the psyk is not as good for showcasing practical performance but at least it's more objective so to speak than scoreboards.

[old prism]

yknow, that is pretty fair. But the problem is as I said, fleshtearer is a coinflip. At %50 chance it'd either work or not.

[dim steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-fan-detected-opinion-rejected-gif-25772991

[old prism]

I might fight like 1000 enemies or something at the same time to compare kill speeds

[junior needle]

If your goal is to light spam anyway, they should even out

But this also gets big into the weeds of build setup.

[orchid hemlock]

Yoo that's me fighting my inner demons 😤

[junior needle]

In terms of chaffe clear, that's correct. Someone tested it already.

It was on poxes

iirc

Na, it was uh

The guy with the pink pfp and japanese characters or something

If you did the same thing then I didn't see it

[radiant chasm]

uncanny is great vs cara, good/okay for flak and unyielding,d oesn't do much for maniac

but you can also skip uncanny on zealot since they can get 95% crit chance with riposte

and knife has unique crit adms all 1.0 and above

[junior needle]

Very unsurprised, even clipping weaker chaffe with the bleeding hit kills them

adm's are different between crits and non crits and not just base damage?

Are you sure?

[radiant chasm]

yea

not a lot of weapons have it, i know knives do

[old prism]

so the main problem is pskhanium doesn't directly showcase the flow of the ai director really well, since the game does have breaks and intervals in between hordes and spawns.
Keep in mind one of the points lacerate argues is also the consistency in keeping up scourge talent. FT is great but critting most enemies will result in a one shot which won't replenish your scourge stacks

[junior needle]

I remember talking to a mod and was told the actual damage varied based on the strike and not that the adm's were differen't as it'd be a mess

[radiant chasm]

you don't need to replenish your scourge stacks if you have fotf or shroud

[last parcel]

i think it was yuri, but they left the server so i can't discord search it

[old prism]

So when I was running with %20 -> %50 with scourge build I'd have more downtimes on scourge stacking compared to lacerate

I am not arguing that over consistent %50 crit chance ft is always better

this is one of the scenarios I need to keep in mind during play

[junior needle]

In practice as long as you're cleaving chaffe or hitting targets that can take more than one crit it's perfectly fine with uptime, but it's definitely not as "clean".

[old prism]

Also remember I've played more than 400-500 games for both flesh tearer uncanny and lacerate uncanny

[radiant chasm]

also if you have fotf for a guaranteed crit

[old prism]

foth gives you a guaranteed crit yes but the thing needs to survive your hit

[old prism]

that works but that lowers dps lmao

[radiant chasm]

you can easily cleave

[junior needle]

I used to run lacerate/FT on my vet for a long while before I realized zealot with uncanny/FT was the gateway to the true bleed experience

[radiant chasm]

etiher the target is alone and dies, or it lives and you stack up scourge

[old prism]

lacerate doesn't need that ulti, you can still proc it if target's alone

[junior needle]

I love playing stealth zealot, it's the only joy I derived from the game for a long while

[old prism]

that's why it can keep up scourge way better

[radiant chasm]

i don't, it would have to be nerfed

[junior needle]

Same

[delicate hornet]

wait is the lacerate vs ft still going

[old prism]

We are just considering different angles, it's kinda understandable both of us won't change our minds anytime soon

[junior needle]

So the thing with lacerate is that it's faster when going from no buffs to buffs

But once you're in the buffed state FT maintains perfectly well until the fighting stops

[last parcel]

pfp checks out

[old prism]

that one thing is one of the main things it gets to outdps flesh tearer on, perfectly buffed ft should be outdpsing lacerate if luck is on your side

but that comes back to number one thing I was saying, %50 chance for a blessing to work isn't consistent still

[junior needle]

It's also only a small window in a fight, but then again I play with 80% crit.

And use exclusively lights

Because I am lazy

[old prism]

%80 crit ft wins always yea

[junior needle]

I'd say the difference is about a second or two to full scourge stacks generously

[old prism]

that adds up a lot over gameplay time

[junior needle]

But that's only when you go from cold

[old prism]

as I said, most objective showing I could do is probably just play 50 games with each setups

and put them all in a steam guide lmao

[junior needle]

Once you're in, it stays up even with zero attention paid to it

[old prism]

same map same modifiers

same players

or I might just solo 50 games on both

we will see

[junior needle]

So over the course of an actual encounter before the director decides it's time to stop, that stacking period should barely have an impact.

[old prism]

same man, I'm also a nerd

I do know how much it differs

[radiant chasm]

cause every new run has a seed randomly assigned i believe, even if it's the same exact map still on the board

[old prism]

if you have any better ideas lmk

[junior needle]

20 crushers in a row

[radiant chasm]

seeds vary wildly

[junior needle]

At least 20

[radiant chasm]

ever had the ogryn horde? reapers spawn on flanks, bulwarks and crushers mixed into horde

or the mauler horde

confused varaint horde system and seeds my bad

that just sounds like a patrol

[orchid hemlock]

Fuck knives I just use cleavers

[radiant chasm]

i think that is also part of it, DT has patrols but they aren't really avoidable

so people get blindsided by massive elite packs they percieve as just spawned in

[old prism]

well anyways, I guess in the end its all personal preference huh

good arguing with you lads for hours

still not really fair to call lacerate shit because it has its uses

[junior needle]

Mmm

I mean you can find a use it for, but it's still a poorly designed blessing and should get reworked

If it gave 2 bleed stacks on weakspot hits and 4 on body, it'd be a vastly less controversial pick

If they just absolutely had to keep that design approach

[old prism]

yknow soldier, that buff would be extremely op lmao

unless uncanny gets nerfed

[junior needle]

8 attacks to max bleed

Most things are dead

I think it'd be fine

[old prism]

then bleed doesnt matter if no rending

we all go precog and riposte

[junior needle]

Or just 3 stacks all around

no bodyshot encouraging

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah but don't u want the satisfaction of seeing a crusher ragdoll form blood loss? 😤

[junior needle]

No more debates about this ever

[old prism]

we shall see

[junior needle]

Well, that's assuming fatshark uses my FREE suggestion

[orchid hemlock]

Agree, haymaker+punish best bl sing so knife

[junior needle]

I am literally giving it away for free

Please obesefish

[old prism]

lmao

in the end

i guess we can all agree that lacerate flesh tearer is an abomination

and shouldn't exist

[orchid hemlock]

What no it is the best build in the game 😭👌

[iron marten]

Wow, I’ve rarely seen a debate end without insults

Love you too

[iron marten]

Very!

[orchid hemlock]

Stop

[old prism]

too old to swear at each other

[orchid hemlock]

Wait no insults?

[junior needle]

At least with certainty we can say that regardless of whether you're bodyshotting or doing weakspot hits, FT does provide more clear speed.

[orchid hemlock]

Where?

[old prism]

provided it procs

[junior needle]

There's a lot of chaffe, it'll proc

You only hit like 3 max with a light attack

[old prism]

rngjesus take the wheel

[iron marten]

Yeah. I’ve just seen alot of debates, here in particular, just degrade into cesspits lmao

[radiant chasm]

rngjesus is relevant for say

[orchid hemlock]

Debates are only started by me

[radiant chasm]

ogryn with bullet keystone and charmed reload stubbers

[junior needle]

Considering the testing showing no blessing was better clear speed on poxes than bodyshot lacerate

You don't even need it to proc honestly

[radiant chasm]

but for knife? with it's attack speed and higher than normal crit chance

[old prism]

gotta give it to ft, when it works it works very well

[radiant chasm]

it's rng is not some hard thing

[old prism]

anyways I'm gone for the night, enough arguing, have a good night fellas

[radiant chasm]

yeppers

[junior needle]

Despite all this talking I've decided against playing the game again because I am bored of it

[midnight totem]

Mission failed folks

We'll get him next time

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-mad-door-slam-quit-gif-22084787

got this from emp's gift, how should i make it peak

[deft oriole]

Do you play Darktide

[tawny badger]

can I ask about the descriptions

[deft oriole]

You got a problem punk?

[tawny badger]

I

I j

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-wegeekinghard-blud-tiktok-animatronic-tweaking-gif-18331326635054461479

[last parcel]

you may. 240 character limit though

[tawny badger]

question 1) what the hell
question 2) I lied this isn’t a question, throw away the middle perk and switch that shit out for uhhhhh toughness or sum

[radiant chasm]

Do you do the voodoo?

[radiant chasm]

It’s too late for me to read this

[faint beacon]

trashing it immediately

[radiant chasm]

Darktide must be ready to pop off here soon cause im being accused of not playing darktide again

[wicked epoch]

whats better for the recon mk6? dumdum deathspitter or headhunter infernus?

i have like deathspitter IV and dumdum III, as well as infernus IV and headhunter III

[radiant chasm]

Dum dum headhunter for ammo effic, i dont think deathspitter does much for it but it should be fine, headhunter infernus is for long range like against reapers

But if it’s your 6d i’d go with infernus headhunter and go dum dum+ one on a different mark

[deft oriole]

You consistently have the shittiest takes imaginable bro. It just makes me wonder when's the last time you've actually played the game and what your skill level is.

[radiant chasm]

Lol 😂

[wicked epoch]

gotcha, thanks

[radiant chasm]

Shittiest takes like

Lacerate is often overrated?

[somber axle]

Dum Dum + Deathspitter is more damage but Dum Dum + Headhunter would be better ammo efficiency!

Infernus is also an ok blessing

[wicked epoch]

trying to get the hotshot lasgun feeling

[radiant chasm]

Sorry im not a true solo god player, i do have actual disabilities so all i do is auric maels on every class and hardmode twins done on every class

[somber axle]

A little less damage vs Dum Dum or Deathspitter but the fire is extra fun for burning down beefier targets or melting a running hound as it escapes

[radiant chasm]

Then probably headhunter dum dum

Gives you a lot of ammo with shocktrooper

[deft oriole]

Being bad and ignorant is fine, you just talk too much despite your ignorance.

[radiant chasm]

You can’t even name my takes ur just bitching about something hours ago

[wicked epoch]

how about punishing salvo?

[radiant chasm]

Yall want to go you need to go get some proof cause i posted the bleed chart and listed knife’s finesse mod

[radiant chasm]

Bad

[wicked epoch]

does that blessing ever get good on any gun

[radiant chasm]

You have to pause and reset your recoil after 4 rounds

[somber axle]

If you want to be able to shoot at Crushers with reckless abandon and burn them to death with ease you can use any combo of Dum Dum and Headhunter, Deathspitter or Infernus as you like. Grab Rending Strikes, Onslaught and Shock Trooper in the talent tree. If you want to go even funnier grab Carapace as a perk on the gun. But you'll generally get more use out of Flak, Maniac or Crit Chance for weapon perks. I just really, really love how funny the gun gets when you double down on Crusher melting potential

[radiant chasm]

Nope

[somber axle]

Unyielding is an ok perk choice too for burning down bosses

[deft oriole]

you post outdated charts and never try anything youself. Just argue on disc and give bad advice.

[wicked epoch]

thanks boss

[radiant chasm]

Headhunter deadly accurate on mk3 hh beats out punishing salvo

[radiant chasm]

Bleed chart isn’t outdated lmaoo

Wtf

[wicked epoch]

my bolter has unyielding and its funny

[radiant chasm]

Go touch grass and take a shower, in any order

[deft oriole]

funny comeback

[umbral scaffold]

Lacerate is bad

Don't use lacerate

[wicked epoch]

infernus and deathspitter or would headhunter work better than death?

[umbral scaffold]

Click heads and benefit

[radiant chasm]

It’s not outdated broo

Now you lying to me or yourself

[deft oriole]

When's the last time you played Darktide

[radiant chasm]

And i dont see no proof from any y’all three

[radiant chasm]

Yesterday xd

Like i get it

[deft oriole]

Can you send me gameplay

[radiant chasm]

You dont have actual proof

To counter me

I got the correct numbers and math

[deft oriole]

I can uplaod a video later if you want

[radiant chasm]

And your ego is hurt

Cause you are mechanically better than me

Most likely

[deft oriole]

I'd imagine i am mechanically better by a lot

idk just keep an open mind man

stop shitting on people

[radiant chasm]

Im both legally blind and have terrible brain and hand movement because of an injury involving a poorly setup shelf

[radiant chasm]

Ohh are you white knighting

Simping for ur pal ❤️ cute

[deft oriole]

I dont give a shit about your disabilities wtf

[radiant chasm]

Nothing ive said

[deft oriole]

I'm done here bro

[radiant chasm]

Was misinfo

[wicked epoch]

how many times will i get perk locked

[radiant chasm]

Prove the misinfo come on

Show me how the chart is outdated

[umbral scaffold]

bro got a tenth of a second more of deadshot and is complaining

[radiant chasm]

Next month everything unlocks/no more locks

Right now you can only mod 2 things out of 4

2 perks, 2 blessings or one perk one blessing

The remaining 2 will be locked

[radiant chasm]

Then why tf you asking about my gameplay when we talking about hard numbers

It don’t matter u got ur true solo high apm runs i average 600k to 800k in auric qp but that don’t matter either

[umbral scaffold]

He wants to hear the air fryer on the background noise

[radiant chasm]

What matters is the numbers

[somber axle]

I like going Carapace and Unyielding on my Boltgun

everything else dies pretty quick

[radiant chasm]

Not the scoreboard but the actual math and damage numbers

[mossy crypt]

Yo any good lasgun dps build?

[radiant chasm]

Which type of lasgun is your favorite

Infantry, recon or helbore

[mossy crypt]

Infantry and helbore

[wicked epoch]

it sounds like a bad idea but im gonna sacrifice shocktrooper for rending

[radiant chasm]

Best infantry right now is the mkia and helbore mark specifically is up to preference

[wicked epoch]

either that or i sacrifice it for weapons specialist

[radiant chasm]

Hmm

[last parcel]

what's the rest of the tree like

[wicked epoch]

gimme a sec

[last parcel]

one

die

i sentence you to blackstone fortress

[wicked epoch]

playstyle idea for this is to be just absolutely ham

[last parcel]

ah you got the survivalist tax

[radiant chasm]

If you have headhunter and shock you dont need survivalist tbh but i forogt your weapon already

[wicked epoch]

deathspitter infernus recon mkvi

[last parcel]

since you seem to like infernus i think you should grab more crit and keep shocktrooper. maybe drop trench fighter drill and 25 toughness for reciprocity and something general, such as marksman

[wicked epoch]

i like trench fighter drill alot tho

i used it on my bolt pistol build and

i got so addicted to it

[last parcel]

understandable

[wicked epoch]

my playstyle literally is just to run into a crowd

and swish swoosh

the gore makes my brain tingle

[last parcel]

well you can still do that without trench fighter drill

but yeah blood make happy chemical go brr

[faint beacon]

Okay so hear me out

do you like hearing the gutteral sounds of a more heavier but quick weapon slashing through hordes with the occasional head decap or limb decap

[wicked epoch]

trench fighter = faster attack speed

faster attack = more bodies

more bodies = more happy chemical

[faint beacon]

Get yourself one of these (Tactical Axe 4)

[wicked epoch]

i use a power sword

[faint beacon]

Swinging head level and just blowing through hordes all the while being as light as a knife user

tickles the brain to me

well not AS light

but you move in dodge as fast as them

[wicked epoch]

i like the swords more

tac axes and shovels dont feel as cool for me

[midnight totem]

shovels are pretty cool

cooler then axes

[faint beacon]

Taxe >>>>>>> Caxe

im just saying

[uncut pebble]

Taxes would be really cool if they didn't feel like a wet noodle.

[faint beacon]

Head level

That's really all I can say

feels extremely fluid to me

[uncut pebble]

Even headshots only.

Doesn't feel nearly as powerful as a caxe.

[faint beacon]

Cause the Caxes are overtuned

thats why

[radiant chasm]

Caxe doing more on lights to maniac than heavies is nothing compared to taxes having a better cara adm on lights than heavies

[uncut pebble]

Then buff taxes so they can keep up.

The solution isn't nerfs.

[uncut pebble]

If this is true then that's completely wild.

[marble mantle]

Makes it look like a shovel instead of using a shovel

[gilded wraith]

If I were making a grenade build boltgun, what should I change?

[faint beacon]

I have to stick to my roots

[gilded wraith]

Specialist to flak?

or Unyielding?

[faint beacon]

I forcefully make everything look like a shovel melee wise

[radiant chasm]

Actually it’s both

Caxes need a nerf and taxes need a slight buff

[uncut pebble]

I dont think caxes need a nerf.

But bromentum does.

Unless they already nerfed it.

[radiant chasm]

They uhh

They reworked it, and it was a net positive for most weapons

[faint beacon]

Execution to Hit N Run

[radiant chasm]

It no longer removed your cleave limit (but you still had falloff even tho caxe minimum damage was still large), but instead you can oneshot multiple enemies, on the good BM weapons

[faint beacon]

and then the rest is mainly talent tree edits

[gilded wraith]

Execution doesn't help grenade damage?

[radiant chasm]

Mainly just taxe got left behind with the BM rework

[faint beacon]

Fuck no

its on already staggered enemies

Execution seriously needs something changed about it

[radiant chasm]

Taxes suffer like old pre buff chaxe used to suffer

It has no niche

Even thunderhammer which is kinda bad

[faint beacon]

I'd say it kinda does

[radiant chasm]

Has it’s unyielding niche still

[faint beacon]

more so in the sense of it has Knife Mobility Dodge wise

but thats

kinda about it

[gilded wraith]

that's unfortunate, seemed like a good pairing

[faint beacon]

Yeah hit n run is a direct damage increase

[gilded wraith]

hoped it was like pinning fire

[faint beacon]

plus you can be extremely aggressive

Keep sprinting whilst firing

oh no sudden horde spawned

spam shredders

lmao

[midnight totem]

I turned off true level mod

after my first game crash today, first time in a long time

why so unstable game

[tall torrent]

U need maniac & elite

[gilded wraith]

Thanks... think I'll hold off on it for now. I really hate dropping too many resources on the boltgun.

[tall torrent]

It’s boltpistol

Boltgun doesn’t really allow for grenadier build

[gilded wraith]

Yep, typo.

Can't wait to drop carapace on this after the September update though

[last parcel]

you can still just keep it in your pocket for le funny grenadier boost while you melee everything and cry when you miss oneshots

[gilded wraith]

True

[tall torrent]

U don’t need carapace on Boltgun

It’s usually flak + maniac/unyielding

[uncut pebble]

Why?

Genuine question, not well versed in boltgun.

[gilded wraith]

Gotca, a tier 4 flak then

[tall torrent]

Flamer 1 bodyshot

[uncut pebble]

Who is out here bothering to shoot their boltgun at a flamer..?

[last parcel]

[uncut pebble]

That's a long equip time just to drop a specialist when you could just as easily dodge, walk 2 feet, and 1shot him in melee anyway.

Exactly.

Quite a strange bp to be going for.

[tall torrent]

Flamer breakpoint is never “strange”

[last parcel]

idk man flamer bodyshot breakpoint does sound pretty strange

[uncut pebble]

Maniac I can understand for packs of dreg ragers, but this is the boltgun. The 4ish second equip time makes that bp very undesirable.

[tall torrent]

With how jank Boltgun recoil is, yea

[uncut pebble]

Especially when youd be conserving more ammo with 25% carapace damage.

[tall torrent]

Too much effort just to magdump crusher

Carapace changes Boltgun magdump by like, 1 shot? On a crusher?

Shattering + marksman

[midnight mesa]

Tbh I kinda want like

An Imperial version of Crusher Armor as a skin

Like it should be like a bright color to differentiate it from the enemies

But the Crushers genuinely look cool

[gilded wraith]

Just a heavy with a rashad?

[faint beacon]

We love HISTG Clandestine Gloriana

[last parcel]

gg @faint beacon

[faint beacon]

@last parcel That was you?

[last parcel]

yeah

[faint beacon]

I semi-recognized the name

Fucking foul steam name lmao

[last parcel]

i don't see what's wrong with it

[trim steppe]

Games like this where you feel like a force of nature are why I can't quit

[grand perch]

Nurgle approved

[faint beacon]

It just clicked to me none of us went down on that mission did we

like we only got pinned by like Hounds and that was about it

[lavish token]

Lmao

[lavish token]

500 plasteel

Nice

[last parcel]

damn you're right

the militarum gets the job done

[faint beacon]

Who's who exactly?

[last parcel]

you | me | other vet | big lad

oh wait i can just send the whole thing

[faint beacon]

Ogryn being disabled the most

yeah im not surprised lmao

[faint beacon]

Christ im more of a Melee vet than I am a ranged Vet