veteran-class

[old quail]

let me MISS this guy but with my sword

[winter grove]

Because I want to make people confused

:)

[old quail]

massive value

i respect it

also with a lot of guns you can 180 and stagger them

especially with the ranged impact increase

weapons have bashes

and again exe stance gives you perfect awareness of enemy positions on top of them having sound cues

it's not 100% consistent but it's the ult where you should be least likely to need to do that in most situations

[tall torrent]

Ykw
I should practice with weapon bash more with exe stance

But still

Buff Killzone

[old quail]

it's a scary thing to do

you WILL think itll work and you hit the cleave limit before hitting the target

and that's just sad

[tall torrent]

I don’t think anybody here disagrees that exe stance has bad pathing nodes

[white minnow]

i just see killzone as something that's only active against ranged enemies only

[tall torrent]

Quite a shame

[old quail]

it's pretty hard to compete with agile engagement

it's not above infiltrate but like

man

[tall torrent]

I just think the 5% reload speed node, Killzone & opening salvo are by far the least enjoyable aspects of exe stance

It’s pure point dump for minimal use cases

[white minnow]

it'd be interesting to see damage talents in a world where we would really need to breakpoint max (e.g., if we dealt less damage baseline)

[old quail]

infiltrate isn't getting particularly fantastic prerequisites either

[cerulean void]

5% won't really make a difference, will it?

[tall torrent]

It’s still a lot better than exe stance’s pathing nodes

[spice wadi]

[uncut pebble]

Not on unyielding, no.

[tall torrent]

5% crit chance and extra grenade is good

[old quail]

i also think you should not compare nodes to certain insane outliers

extra grenade on its own isn't super impactful

you can go whole games where you get like 1 grenade box to yourself

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s QoL but again it’s higher QoL than Killzone

[old quail]

in the context of exe stance i don't really think so

there's a lot of cases where you should be activating it when you're 30m away from any enemies (i.e the start of a lot of engagements on maps because the sightlines are deceptively long)

[white minnow]

it's going to depend because killzone could result in a nice gunner one-shot on certain builds or whatever, but that's just breakpoints and requires testing

[old quail]

yeah

[tall torrent]

Killzone’s dmg boost is good

It’s just not up enough of the time to be worth the point cost

If it’s literally just +15% ranged dmg to all enemies >8m from u it’ll be at least tangibly consistent

[cerulean void]

the area it needs is unrealistic on a lot of maps

[old quail]

that's just longshot 2

[white minnow]

i'd just make opening salvo something better so that people can path through it as the less niche option

[winter grove]

Like mg12

[white minnow]

killzone itself is fine to me

[winter grove]

Please fatshark

For the love of god

[old quail]

opening salvo should be crit chance after reload

[winter grove]

Buff mg12 dmg

[white minnow]

kill mittins

[spice wadi]

mg12 had its time

it is now in the crypt

forever

with the autopistol

[spice wadi]

want some drugs

[old quail]

i will say vet chat doesn't have the old ogryn chat problem where if you disagreed over something like curio build you had a bunch of people self report to single celled organism gameplay such as standing in fire

[pastel yew]

[old quail]

which is nice

[swift bear]

I have 65% stability on my columnus, always wondered if that's what's making my damage suffer

[spice wadi]

vet chat iq rising is a sign of the apocalypse

[pastel yew]

honestly it'd be fine as just... a bigger %

[white minnow]

i wonder who here has died after standing in fire

[pastel yew]

10% crit for the first 30% of your ammo maybe

not sure what the number should be

[old quail]

are u referencing the time almost a year ago when i dc'd and my bot stood in fire

[white minnow]

no i'm referring to my knife clutch

[tall torrent]

Like
+X% ranged crit chance for X seconds after latest reload?

[old quail]

and I was laughed at

[old quail]

yeah

[spice wadi]

there was also the time you picked me up

[old quail]

like ogryn's 12% damage after reload for 5s

but for crit chance

[spice wadi]

and then promptly burnt yourself at the stake

[pastel yew]

ayy wait a sec actually.... x% crit after reload and then bring back the full reload on exec stance

[old quail]

somehow i did not notice the fire turning my feet into nubs

[pastel yew]

life could be so beautiful

[white minnow]

this is why you don't disable screen effects

[spice wadi]

the 30 round bolter magdump is also in the crypt

forever

[old quail]

i absolutely hate screen effects in dt

the visual clarity is extremely important to me

[pastel yew]

the psyker peril effect is the worst

[old quail]

i have them all modded out

for all eternity

except ult ones i think

[spice wadi]

and yet he still teamkills

[white minnow]

my graphics are too poopoo for me to notice a particular loss in quality when screen effects are on

[tall torrent]

Would be ok but I think the issue with that is that some guns would unironically have permanent +10% crit chance buff in magdump and idk abt u but a Columnus mk5 on veteran that gets to perma 23% baseline Crit chance sounds scary

[spice wadi]

peeepee

[old quail]

the problem is the columnus

[white minnow]

like, the video that you posted of shooting a burster into yoshi is much clearer than from my PoV

[old quail]

rather than a node like that

[white minnow]

also the lack of crit chance normalization for weapons with crit strings

cuz i get why crit strings exist

but you know, they should probably normalize the crit chance in compensation

[tall torrent]

Crit chance after reload sounds ok to me, just a few outliers needing to be tuned down

[old quail]

yeah

[tall torrent]

Wouldn’t be a terrible grab for some guns

[old quail]

and it'd still primarily favor like shotguns

agri shotgun exe stance MF gaming

[tall torrent]

Like DB shotgun, agripinaa revolver, etc

But Killzone I still think is just awkward to play with

[old quail]

i don't feel like awkward necesitates changeworthy

i have the opposite problem with a lot of talents really

[white minnow]

killzone is one of those "if you know you know" things since it's breakpoint-maxxing, but it's fine

[old quail]

they don't require any kind of gameplay changes to get a reward

[spice wadi]

i have gained many talent points back

[white minnow]

yeah, i would dislike the other solution of making it something more generalist

[spice wadi]

since actually testing if stuff like the elite damage thing actually changes a kill time

instead of just moderately+ wounding a rager

instead of moderately wounding a rager

[tall torrent]

What if Killzone was +dmg only when there’re enemies within 8m of u

[spice wadi]

then u are playing zealot

[old quail]

that is anoint in blood yeah

[spice wadi]

my joke funnier

grape man

[elder fiber]

lets steal twbs from zealot too while we're at it

[old quail]

i could see changing it to like "Fire Under Pressure" and making it deal more ranged damage the more slots are occupied around u or smth

but that'd probably be a nightmare condition to code

[tall torrent]

Anoint is still different

I’d rather it be smth like

[spice wadi]

isnt that p much how EWEW works

[old quail]

kinda yeah

[tall torrent]

More consistently up but still conditional

[spice wadi]

altho they would have to buff the beejesus out of the crit on reload thing

[white minnow]

enemies outside the range is already fine enough

[spice wadi]

if killzone became a get +15% ranged for having groupies

[old quail]

i feel like longshot already has a pretty decent niche

[spice wadi]

obvs numbers can be tuned

[old quail]

i've played a ton of exe stance bolter where the goal is to minimize melee as much as possible

[tall torrent]

Reduce dmg boost, make it activate as long as there’s a single enemy within 8m of u

[old quail]

and there are so many engagements where you can drop 15 rounds worth of elites before the shit starts really happening

[tall torrent]

Also very on brand for the imperium

[spice wadi]

and then he gets killed and swaps to ogryn in a rage

for the next match

[white minnow]

that's also a cheese that i don't like if it were changed into that

[old quail]

i bring fourth @vague lintel as my witness for exe stance boltering

[spice wadi]

fourth

[vague lintel]

it is true

[tall torrent]

Idk cuz 10% crit for 5s on reload is good

[vague lintel]

he had a phase where he could not fight poxwalkers

[tall torrent]

Recon? You can dump a lot of shots within 5s

DB shotgun, Agripinaa revolver, u dump whole mag within that time

[spice wadi]

u said recon i am now going to pass out

i am mortally wounded

https://tenor.com/view/sleep-time-gif-2822468507363798988

good night

[old quail]

if it has the same condition as the ogryn talent it also refreshes on reload

so u would have effective infinite uptime on a combat shotgun

[tall torrent]

Yea so it’s just permanently up for them

[somber axle]

What if you make Kill Zone a damage increase active when enemies are below X% HP

50%, 25%, 10%, idc but it could be a funny damage buff that kicks in for helping finish off wounded targets

[tall torrent]

Sounds like a code nightmare

[somber axle]

Aren't are already playing a code nightmare

[tall torrent]

I’d much rather it be a more consistently up dmg boost because it matters for breakpoints

[somber axle]

Within 8m would be consistent but not within the theme of the Vet being a sharpshooter for that side of the talent tree

Thematically something like that would work better on the weapon specialist side of the talent tree or on Zealot

[winter grove]

Just give us more dmg for enemies further than 8 meters or something

[tall torrent]

That’s just longshot v2

[winter grove]

Longshot v2

I realised that

Yeah

Give us longshot v2

[somber axle]

Longshot and Closeshot

[tall torrent]

I think the problem is more like

Most weapons rn, don’t need Killzone active to reach breakpoints

But that’s only because they reach deeper into superiority complex / rending etc

So Killzone is not only inconsistent it also doesn’t matter very much in the grand scheme of things

It’s just a whatever talent

[placid portal]

only probably usable in a shooter shootout

[tall torrent]

But because its direct competition is top 5 worst talents in this game it’s still overall better

I don’t consider +dmg that useful unless it meaningfully makes u kill things faster

If Killzone is 15% and much more consistent then it nullifies the need for superiority complex on a lot of builds

More diversity

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I don't think I'd ever really take killzone unless I'm using the bolter

as opening salvo is worthless on the bolter

[somber axle]

Make Kill Zone a buff to ranged attack speed instead

[pastel yew]

and the 15% is easy enough to activate for boss damge

[somber axle]

We need more ranged attack speed bonuses tbh

[pastel yew]

other than like.. weapon specialist and zealots dash

are there any?

[tall torrent]

Nada

[somber axle]

Celery stim

[pastel yew]

zealot dash still makes your ranged weapon fire faster btw... even though "iT's NoT iNtEnDeD"

[somber axle]

That's it

Give us more ranged attack speed

The automatic weapons CAN get funnier

[pastel yew]

I still think I'd rather it be damage as it's niche use is for boss exploding builds

and I like that 100 to 0

[tall torrent]

Ranged atk speed doesn’t sound too horrible

Also that 5% reload node

Horrible

Pls buff

[pastel yew]

yeah it's just without killzone I don't think the aggrippina can 6 shot a boss

[tall torrent]

10% or smth

[pastel yew]

5% reload is a fucking joke node

[somber axle]

Turn the reload node into more ranged attack speed

[pastel yew]

I wouldn't be massively opposed to that I guess

though 5% attack speed is still like, not massive

I guess its better than 5% damage

[tall torrent]

5% ranged atk speed is nothing

[pastel yew]

if you already have the damage for break points it just means you attack slightly faster

[tall torrent]

It makes MG4 go from 300rpm to 315rpm

[pastel yew]

though yeah it's a tiny benefit, all the tiny nodes are smlal though

[tall torrent]

Which is literally nothing

[pastel yew]

small*

[tall torrent]

Nah

5% move speed is big

5% crit is big

5% dmg matters for a lot of weapons

25 toughness is big

[pastel yew]

whenever you feel cold and useless

[tall torrent]

Stam regen delay is big

[pastel yew]

remember

at least you arent suppression boost

[winter grove]

Mg12 is not one of the most ones

😭

[pastel yew]

there are a lot of shitter ones though 5% health, suppression dealt, reload speed

theres a 5% toughness damage reduction

[tall torrent]

I’ve just accepted that opening salvo + marksman + MF copium is the way

The only problem is that

MG12 somehow has the most ADS sway out of all infantry Lasguns

[winter grove]

I've grown used to it

It's slow enough

At least mg1a can just

Fire second time

And mg4 is mg4

[winter grove]

No need to worry about BPs when you shoit so fast

[somber axle]

Make it 25%

[winter grove]

Make it 50%

[somber axle]

100%

[tall torrent]

25% is absurd

[somber axle]

250%

[tall torrent]

8~10% is more reasonable

[winter grove]

Mg4 and Mk2 laspistol mains get carpal tunnel

[uncut pebble]

Full auto mod be like:

[somber axle]

Yeah ok I'd take 10%

Tbh I just want more ranged attack speed period

[winter grove]

I'd take 10% tbf

[somber axle]

Idc how much or from where

[winter grove]

330 rpm

[pastel yew]

that's a level of optimization I am not playing at honestly

[tall torrent]

10% makes MG4 go from 300rpm to 330rpm which is a noticeable difference

[pastel yew]

I'm very much in the just dodge category

if I don't dodge

skill issue

[uncut pebble]

A 10% ranged attack speed boost would have to be on the left to compensate for trench fighter drill being on the right.

So the question is, what do you replace?

[somber axle]

I want it for Recon Mk VId + Weapon Specialist attack speed + Celerity stim attack speed

[tall torrent]

If opening salvo was 10% crit chance for 5s after reload idk why you’d take atk speed over that on a recon of all things

[somber axle]

Neither one is either of these things

But in that scenario? I'd take both

[tall torrent]

Yea above was discussing changes for opening salvo & Killzone

[pastel yew]

I think zealot cheat death has application even if you're skilled enough not to take damage as it lets you make plays that would otherwise be impossible (if a bit int)

though that's less useful in solo I'd imagine

[somber axle]

Yeah just gimme both then

[pastel yew]

I still haven't really dipped my toes into that yet

I would if I got plasteel but

theres still a lot I wanna craft

[tall torrent]

If Killzone was just +10% ranged atk speed, no conditions

And opening salvo was +10% crit chance for 5s after reload

Then they’re actually good enough to be considered on a lot of guns

[somber axle]

I would love for the left talent tree to look nicer

[pastel yew]

5s is not a massive amount of time after a reload though

[somber axle]

Most people swing down center or right side

[pastel yew]

it also does nothing on the initial engage unless you wait to reload just before afight

[tall torrent]

It’s enough for shotgun / revolver / automatics to have near permanent crit chance uptime

[pastel yew]

depends, the recons wouldn't gain as much from it

[tall torrent]

5% is rly small, 15% seems too much, so 8~10% seems about right

[pastel yew]

and the revolver is far far better off just taking weapon specialist

[somber axle]

Most players reload religiously anyway. Missing one shot? Reload as soon as you have downtime

[pastel yew]

its a good habit to be in though

never wanna run dry when you need that one extra shot

[tall torrent]

Why

[somber axle]

Change ammo to work by losing whatever ammo was in the clip when you reload

[pastel yew]

because they don't need to reload usually, they have such a huge capacity and crits don't consume ammo

so you'd be forcing out a reload to gain the benefit

but losing the damage you'd do otherwise during that time

[tall torrent]

Get a quick reload in, for 5s u have 37% practical Crit chance (not considering headhunter stacks)

Why wouldn’t u want that

[pastel yew]

I do also think current opening salvo is pretty good on the hellbores and mk2 recon

not sure about the others

[austere mica]

Lawbringer for special spam

[hearty panther]

its very funny with helbore

[pastel yew]

yeah I just ran my first auric with my helbore 3

it was aight

[somber axle]

Helbore infinite ammo crit machine...

[pastel yew]

10% crit for your first 2 charged shots is real nice on top of the other bonusses you have from other places and surgical

I did a few test fires in the psykanium

[hearty panther]

your first two shots is forever

[pastel yew]

and I think I was able to fire 23 then 24 full charged shots

without reloading

and thats like... firing as fast as possible with weight of fire

[hearty panther]

bayonet melee only auric

[somber axle]

Headhunter Autogun bash only auric

[cold shell]

when you roll and then make a really cool lasgun...the best one you've made so far...but it's on zealot ;_;7

[pastel yew]

I think in the whole auric run I only picked up one medium ammo bag and could have gotten by without it

I also missed ... a lot of shots

not used to the wind up

[hearty panther]

blades dont need reloadin

[pastel yew]

especially with it altering the timing the more you fire, it's a bit fucky

[somber axle]

Yeah but blades need you to be melee range

[tall torrent]

This is exactly what a t’au player would say

[pastel yew]

I mean your ranged weapon is still your secondary, honestly I see ranged as more of a problem solving tool

melee should be better dps

[somber axle]

I am a Tau in disguise nah I'm a Harlequin at heart

[pastel yew]

even in builds where I'm shooting 90% of the time lmao

ammo economy isn't that tight either

and it's 0 risk being at range

[cold shell]

part of the point of the vermintide series is that melee is priority and is the default. Even in Darktide which has stronger range weapons, you're not meant to be on ranged even 70% of the time. Ranged main builds are done in spite of the game's design.

[pastel yew]

nah I think some weapons are totally fine and designed for it, there are a lot of really high ammo efficiency guns even outside of the lasguns

the recon las are way too ammo efficient for what they do though

[cold shell]

ammo efficiency isn't the problem, health is.

[winter grove]

Don't bother with mg12 on god

Just make a mg1a

[pastel yew]

?

[austere mica]

OE’s entire kit

I love engi

[pastel yew]

I do think damage as a stat is misleading though

most melee dps is to pox walkers

most ranged dps is to elite

interesting

[cold shell]

if you're on a range weapon, you tire when dodging faster than with a melee weapon. You don't have blocks, you don't have sweeps and staggers and other tools to keep yourself alive. Many builds don't recover toughness by shooting either. And the talents that recover toughness from ranged are limited.

[winter grove]

runs Mg4
25/75 melee/ranged gameplay

[pastel yew]

not being able to recover toughness on your own is a build fail though, that's like... very important

also I still think blocking is int

at ranged you also have sliding

dodge sliding

all sorts of options

[winter grove]

Ehhhhhhhhhhh

[pastel yew]

you're 100% safe at range with no melee around you

[cold shell]

yeah, that's why you shouldn't be on a ranged weapon when melee guys are right up in your grill

[pastel yew]

yeah but that's common sense

if its just a pox walker or two though I'll just dodge

and keep shooting

they're not a threat

[cold shell]

that's why I said before "range builds are done in spite of the game's design, not because of it"

[serene bough]

i love neglecting common sense to cause massive explosions

[pastel yew]

extremely valid

[mellow adder]

Should I get the Left one or keep right?

[cold shell]

ogryn bashing everything in melee, bleed toughing it out, "it's a ranged only build"

https://tenor.com/view/kid-lol-shape-fail-gif-7860721

[pastel yew]

the shove attack on the mk6 is so fuckinnnggg goood

[feral stratus]

Hey, question, i know smoke grenades are pretty meme, but how should i use them in actual situations in case i opt in using them?

[pastel yew]

you can also shove cancel the activation on the mk6

so if a crusher gets on you special > block > shove attack > light attack

he's dead

[cold shell]

use them until you get the penance and bury them

[pastel yew]

the actual answer I think is when there are flamers, dogs n such

but honestly I'd rather no one use them

they make it hard for me to see

my little goblin eyes

[cold shell]

literally take a bunch of grenade regen talents, hog grenades, and smoke as much as you can

[winter grove]

Ever tried hacker shotgun

You know

Same thing but with two bullets

[pastel yew]

I think the kickback has other use

at range especially

due to fucky minimum pellet count shenanigans and such

[drowsy leaf]

kickback be like, antisniper ogryn go

shoot in direction of red light, ded

[pastel yew]

also the kickback doesn't need manstopper to mulch a bunch of shit

its a stupid mechanic though

the minimum pellet count is so counter intuitive

[somber axle]

Smokes are very good and not a meme at all. Most Vets are just not aware how they work so they can't use them and assume they're worthless

Drop smoke grenade at your feet and stand in the cloud to be concealed

Alternatively throw smoke at ranged enemies if you're planning on charging into the cloud and engaging them in melee

[pastel yew]

like the average player is not going to understand that without being told it exists

[drowsy leaf]

smokes are amazing

[pastel yew]

they'll just assume their weapon is useless at range

[drowsy leaf]

love em

[pastel yew]

why smoke when you can just dodge

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-roll-gif-4890688

[thorn lark]

why smoke when you can just drink and ruin your health without the stink?

[pastel yew]

why drink yourself to death when you can do the fent speedrun challenge

[somber axle]

Smokes prevent dogs from pouncing, force Shotgunners to engage in melee where they are weakest, make Sniper brains shut off, reduce Burgle vomit range, etc.

[drowsy leaf]

even more so because it absolutely shuts down the most aggravating part of this game, shooters and gunners. Which is mostly aggravated due to poor rando teammates not shooting them the instant they are in their line of sight like they should be doing

[somber axle]

Smoke grenades are good for more than just preventing enemy ranged attacks

[pastel yew]

it is a bit of that though I will say most shooter frustration is bad positioning

[drowsy leaf]

oh yeah, I just like that part the best

[somber axle]

But the best part is hotboxing the dropship at the end of the level

[feral stratus]

My other question is, for enemies to be affected by the smoke bomb they have to be on the radius of the smoke?

[pastel yew]

you have to be in it

[drowsy leaf]

they do not need to be in the radius iirc

[pastel yew]

or they ahve to be

I'm not sure if it works if it is between you both

[somber axle]

Smoke clouds do not stop enemies unless you are in the cloud

[pastel yew]

I've seen some jank but that might just be near the edges

[somber axle]

If there is a cloud between you and shooters it will obscure them as though you were in the cloud though

But if enemies are in the cloud it doesn't stop them

[pastel yew]

doesnt it force them to move

?

[drowsy leaf]

going ham in the smoke with ambush and a tactical axe go brrrrr

or a shovel

[somber axle]

Yeah Gunners, Shotgunners, Snipers and Reapers will reposition to try to get an angle

[pastel yew]

ding ding ding

[somber axle]

It's like if a wall suddenly appeared

They will not shoot

[pastel yew]

also just good positioning usually makes shooters worthles

[somber axle]

They will move to try to get an angle to see you

[pastel yew]

though I dont think theres a massive overlap of like.. darktide and competitive shooter players

so it's not a skill most have had to think about

[drowsy leaf]

which sometimes you kinda have to be in the open though, so smoke can cover that

good positioning first, smoke for when you cant

[somber axle]

Smokes are very valuable for the new map

[tall torrent]

No
You (the player) needs to be inside smoke to benefit

[thorn lark]

smokes are not for you but your teamates

[somber axle]

The open area after the lift has very little cover and every inch of that snowy slope is covered in shooters, gunners and usually Reapers too

Smokes make that segment pretty trivial for pugs

[pastel yew]

I don't want my team to throw smoke for me ;-; I'd rather be able to see at 100%

[somber axle]

Playing with randoms and using smokes to cover the squad vs watching the squad get Swiss cheese'd without smokes

[pastel yew]

gunners can't shoot you

if they are deceased

just pew pew pew

[somber axle]

Yeah ok tell the auric pugs that because they are on their knees again

Pugs love to walk out into the open and get shot to pieces

[pastel yew]

they won't improve if they're carried and hand held at every corner though

[somber axle]

Tbh I don't think someone queueing for Auric Damnation is going to improve with or without your intervention if they are in that difficulty and still walking out into the open getting shredded by shooters

[pastel yew]

they really needed to kill those 3 poxwalkers

it was important

[somber axle]

Quickplay has so many creatures

[pastel yew]

thats what makes it so fun

sometimes you join and its chill

other times you join, everyones dead there's a full health boss and you are on fire

[drowsy leaf]

the chill games are amazing

[somber axle]

I've started inspecting player weapons in the pre-game lobby after playing with Soldier 69 and now I can't help but stare confused at weapons people are using

[austere mica]

I’ve been doing that for a while

[pastel yew]

no point inspecting, 60% of the time its a columnus

[austere mica]

Executor Lacerate, weakspot crit damage mk6 knife

On a vet

[pastel yew]

yeah

honestly

[austere mica]

I’ve solo’d ambush rinda

And could’ve solo’d the real fight if I had a flamer (maybe)

Sadly my connection dropped while running in circles to get a revive

[pastel yew]

knife just.... feels so unsatisfying to me

it has no OOMPH

no ponch

30m in just the fight?

thats not a bad shout

I think I am also just

inately biased against the knife

its not often you have someone just skip all the enemies and run to the end

but when you do its a level +200 veteran

who is incredibly toxic

[tall torrent]

It’s the sound effect when u hit smth

Sounds like ur scratching them instead of hitting them with smth with actual power

[cold shell]

walk forward more instead of holding up the group killing enemies that don't give xp

[pastel yew]

the average auric player isn't able to self sustain though

so by just running ahead at such a speed most players can't keep up

idk I feel it is particularly toxic

I'd rather just play slower and stick with em

I only ever quickplay into auric damnation

so that might be why my expectations of players is lower

half of the maelstrom conditions are shit

yeah, I do wish killing them gave something

like a ...

I dont know

theres no like loot die upgrade system

true but theres not a lot of variety in the daemonhosts attacks

they're like spawnjust harder

super fun with a devils claw though

or a thunder hammer

yeah their wind up animation is ages

it'd be kinda nice if they were already standing... maybe stumbling about

so they pose more of a threat than ... nothing

they just sit there

also they don't even kill a second player now they just vanish

so even if someone triggers and you go to fight it... it just peaces out

OHHHHH DUDE THATS YOU

I actually stalked your reddit account semi recently

I saw one of your comments and thought "guys got pretty good takes I wonder what else he's posted"

god bles the revolver

I have a semi decent one in my inventory I should use it more

[grand badge]

The shotgun rocks so unbelievablely hard it's insane

Even engaging the alt fire is badass, you pop a specialized shell in and eject a live shell chambering it

Very cool, S tier

[pastel yew]

part of me wishes that each of the shotguns just like

fired only the special fire shells though

mostly because a shotgun that fires only slugs would be incredibly satisfying

[grand badge]

True there should be a special new shotgun that has the shells with extra spread by default and alt-fire loads in a slug for longer range

[feral stratus]

Okay, played one game of Smokes and Ambush

All the ranged enemies didn't do anything

It felt good

[torn gorge]

you can just LoS most situations anyway

[pastel yew]

lawbringer had a pretty funny combo with its special ammo right?

with manstopper and flechette or whatever

for giga bleed apply

but I think the bleed stacks got nerfed recently which is kinda sad

[fleet thicket]

I know its fun but

Lawbringers ADS is soo good i would just stick to

Full gore no respite

[torn gorge]

flechette is a meme

sadly

[junior needle]

Keep in mind that the agri revolver is not actually very good and that's a meme setup that leverages strange damage calc and big damage stacking.

[coral willow]

flechette works if you have a way to spam shots

in which case, none for the ironhelm

[coral willow]

agri revo still has quick burst dps even if all else fails so

[midnight totem]

gonna play a game or two, anybody want in?

[junior needle]

Except it's worse at that and everything else compared than the zarona

[junior needle]

Are you playing auric 5

[midnight totem]

yes

only auric damnation

[junior needle]

Very well, I can join

[midnight totem]

at minimum

I'm in strike team 7

[ornate garnet]

Anyone has a tree for a marksman build? I'm thinking either a hellbore or a headhunter, something that oneshots about everything in the head that's not plasma gun

[junior needle]

going to the bathroom first

[uncut pebble]

Helbore would probably be your best bet, then.

Though a similar weapon that doesn't need all that fancy charge up time is the mk12 ilas.

Frankly, though, I use a mk7 recon on my marksman's focus build.

It has zero recoil, everything short of maulers, mutants, and ogrnys, dies in like 3 shots, and I have a lot more leniency with headshots.

[ornate garnet]

To be honest i leveled up my vet using a knife, so i haven't used any of the guns and i don't know what i'm doing with them. My ranged experience is limited to revo, columnus and staves

[uncut pebble]

Try out a recon, then. They're very good.

The only one I don't like is the mk6.

The mk2 and mk7 feel very nice in my hands.

[ornate garnet]

Those are the laser guns?

[uncut pebble]

The mk7 has a little bit of like a fire delay on it, so it'll take some getting used to if you decide to use it.

Yeah the automatic laser rifles.

[marble mantle]

About to get off but buy or nah?

[midnight totem]

nah

[marble mantle]

Aite

Melk never got anything good for me

[ornate garnet]

Well i'm not going for automatic weapon, i want to try some of the precision guns

So unless some of the guns are just pathetic and not worth using, i'll go with what i try but there's like a million talents in the vet tree and i dont want to read them all

[marble mantle]

Some more poxkour

And also whatever this is

[ornate garnet]

If you want to get out of this, stay close to a wall and wait for a mutie. It works

[drowsy aspen]

The 1a infantry lasgun is great

Pretty precise, pretty strong

Not flashy, but it kills and kills well

[marble mantle]

I’ve been running combat blade and whatever onehanded range weapons I wanna run and it’s been fun as hell

Bistol and heavy laspistol mostly but I’m working on a zarona too

Combat blade might take my shock mauls spot as my most used melee soon, this shit fucks

[grand badge]

Is the double barrel good?

[grand badge]

Catachan Combat Blade is undeniably the best melee weapon

[somber axle]

one time a chaos spawn grabbed me and clipped me into the backrooms under some stairs

I got to live under the map like a rat in the dark

[hearty panther]

https://streamable.com/7kql7o

always satisfying when it works

[coral willow]

fanning DPS is faster than zarona p sure

only for that prief period of 5 shots

[radiant chasm]

it's dps def good, it's the cleaving and reliability of zarona that makes agri fall off, if you want pure dps better options exist imo

[coral willow]

outside of something like ironhelm shotgun

i dont think it's getting beaten in the burst DPS argument really

just that it uh

has everything stacked against it compared to zarona

wish agri had 3 cleave

[somber axle]

is there even a Vet gun that can kill a boss faster than funny agripina revolver memes

[woeful ibex]

Bolters during Launch Day

[somber axle]

I miss full reload on Exe stance every day

[woeful ibex]

back then 1-3 Bolter Mains can delete Bosses

[somber axle]

you can still delete a boss in one magdump burst from a Boltgun

I still miss Exe Stance reload though

[shadow urchin]

The armory gave me a 380 I'd like to test out. What's the optimal changes here, swap out 10% perk and Shred? Or keep the level 3?

[pastel yew]

its fine, it does the job and yeah I'm aware of the build path

it's not really normal game practical but the end result is fun

for a boss rush maelstrom it'd be cool

I still like the agri revolver, I think people give it too much flak

like it's still good

[shadow urchin]

Oh, unloading a full cylinder on the back of a pogryn's head is choice

[pastel yew]

it's just not zarona good

[junior needle]

its fine, it does the job
it's not really normal game practical

[pastel yew]

the build isn't normal game practical

the agri revolver is more than practical

its like solid A tier

I do think it could use some more like.. ammo total but

other than that its fine

[junior needle]

I wouldn't call it A tier personally

Maybe B

B-

It's like having another melee weapon

Except it uses ammo

[midnight totem]

I used an agrip with throwing knife on my zealot for a while

I have no idea why

Oh wait, I know why. I was getting the elite kills with knives

if I didn't want to line up a knife headshot, I bodyshot with the revolver then threw a knife. So wasteful. But it worked

[junior needle]

I think it needs tighter spread or at the very least, not spreading when moving

But this was my experience using it on zealot

[pastel yew]

it also still benefits from crucian roullette and hand cannon

so its just sorta good at killing everything

like I said my only real issue is how much ammo it's got

you can't really play into the fanning too much which I feel is the coolest part of the weapon

there's no reason to run it for any reason other than boss damage

and by running it you fuck your carapace potential

so I get why it isn't

[tall torrent]

it needs reduced spread expansion when firing

first shot accuracy is quite good, it's the follow up shots that go out of bounds

[pastel yew]

hit by a crusher overhead who was in a shield... into being sniped by a sniper who's laser I couldnt see

I am so fucking washed up

the kneel of shame is intense

?

it's usually one of the better ways of dealing with them

2 to the head without exe is still good

unless you get real unlucky and somehow do not crit on any of your shots

also are the powerswords bugged usually, been using the mk6 again and I have the audio bug again where I just continuously hear crackling from the charge

[opaque crane]

Yeah I’ve been experiencing that too.

[pastel yew]

it is

really fucking annoying

[opaque crane]

Sure is

[shadow urchin]

I like mixing in a cheeky close-range headshot to stagger them out of their attacks.

It's called a quickdraw revolver for a reason. Super fast swappin lets me combo it like I'm the cowboy from Mortal Kombat.

[torpid grotto]

Ive found wasting zarona bullets on crushers to be pretty foolish

Staring down the barrel for too long charging surgical or you now have to sit through the reload animation when disablers are around

[pastel yew]

surgical isn't really ideal

honestly I think crucian roullette is way way better

because as you say, you spend ages staring down the barrel

I think crucian is more of a sit at the back type blessing

[torpid grotto]

Oh this is vet chat

[pastel yew]

or surgical is even

[torpid grotto]

How many crits does it take vet to kill crusher (no exe stance)?

[pastel yew]

2 I think

you might be able to hit one crit

then one normal shot

I can't remember

with exe stance you can one shot them

on crit that is

[torpid grotto]

On zealot you usually have to shoot all 5 and get 2-3 crits

[somber axle]

huh

wdym forever

if you aim for literally 1 second

[tall torrent]

Only because it’s bugged for WS

[somber axle]

that's 30% crit chance

10% crit chance per 0.3 seconds

[pastel yew]

I use crucian on zealot too

I really do not like surgical on the revolver

[tall torrent]

It’s not as good as surgical then

[pastel yew]

also is it still bugged?

[somber axle]

if you're also running Deadshot on a Revolver (because why not?) you're basically capping on crit chance for very little effort

Crucian comparatively gives very little crit chance

AT BEST

[tall torrent]

If u wanted crucian roulette

[somber axle]

literally the last round gives 24% crit chance

[tall torrent]

You’re prob gonna benefit more from point blank now that it’s fixed

[somber axle]

if literally every other round has been spent and the max benefit of crucian is being applied

you're still worse than a surgical revolver who aimed for 1 second

[pastel yew]

the thing with crucian is you get enough crits to kill the crusher and you get them out fast

I'm still mixed on dead shot but maybe I should give it a go

I've been using it with my helbore and its.. fine

[tall torrent]

The thing with point blank is that it’s +20% for just long enough for u to magdump

[pastel yew]

its not like you're ever running out of ammo with the revolver

[somber axle]

Deadshot is a meme on automatics but like it's genuinely useful for Revolver and I can't really see a general revolver user firing enough to run through their stamina much unless you were already low stam from sprinting/blocking when you swapped

[tall torrent]

If u want crucian on zealot u should just go point blank

Kill 1 enemy with melee, swap
2.5s of +20% crit chance

[pastel yew]

maybe I should try that

[tall torrent]

Crucian at best is 24%

[pastel yew]

well 24%+whatever your base crit is

with piety your base crit is no joke

[tall torrent]

Base goes up to 21% so max 45%

[somber axle]

24% is only for the last round

[tall torrent]

Point blank is basically on demand 41% & piety +25%

[somber axle]

+6% crit per spent round so your first shot gets zero benefit and as Vet that's only really ignored with Weapon Specialist guaranteeing your first shot crits

[torpid grotto]

Its cool but many times the natural gameplay flow will have you shooting enemies outside of 2.5s window then its sad

[pastel yew]

applying an extra condition on your crit chance feels ... eehh hh hh

[tall torrent]

That’s why surgical is still the best +crit option overall

Point blank is just more readily available for melee focus

[pastel yew]

I dunno I've tried both and found that with crucian on both zealot and vet that guys normally dead pretty much instantly

no waiting around

[torpid grotto]

Big brain is putting maniac damage on so you dont need crits

[tall torrent]

Are u checking with mods to see if it’s actually a crit

[pastel yew]

I have healthbars mod

so I can see when I crit

[tall torrent]

Just go point blank then honestly

[pastel yew]

I can think of loads of situations where there has not been a melee critter to slap but there have been crushers I needed to shoot though

I think the extra condition is more of a penalty

I havent tried it though so maybe it works out fine

just seems like a blessing that works better on paper than it does in practice

[tall torrent]

I mean
I just don’t think shooting crusher should be the go-to option ever

But that’s just me

[torpid grotto]

Shooting crushers is COWARDLY!!!!!

[somber axle]

if you're fanning on an agripina then yeah crucian is probably better but (but then you could just go point blank and get 20% crit chance on ALL shots instead of +0% first shot, +6% second, +12% third, +18% fourth and +24% last since it's literally better crit chance for all shots except the last and the last shot on crucian is only 4% higher) if you're spending literally 1 second ADS per shot you're getting more crit on Surgical than the max benefit of crucian

[pastel yew]

yeah lemme wait 16 years for the ideal situation mid horde to use the devils claw parry on them

or do 0 damage

[tall torrent]

Oh nvm u use DC sword

Too bad

[pastel yew]

yeah its rough

I would also sshoot them using the heavy sword tbf

[torpid grotto]

I legit use the cowboy revolver for anti crusher when I go devils claw

[somber axle]

5% base crit on vet + 5% crit talent node + 25% Deadshot crit + Surgical 1 second ADS 30% crit = 65% crit

for aiming for 1 second

[pastel yew]

I think carapace is a pretty weird armor type, there are a lot of weapons that are just generally good and have no problems dealing with it... and then you have other weapons that are marginally better against non armored targets and are worthless against it

[tall torrent]

Yea slash-type regular swords are just done this way

[pastel yew]

sucks if you just sprinted or have no stamina as thats another second of aim

also revolver crit is

I think 10%?

I know its higher than base

but not sure if its 10 or 15 like the laspistol

[tall torrent]

See if u had 3x sprint efficiency u wouldn’t run into this kind of problem

[torpid grotto]

Yeah I think caparace is too easily bypassed by a lot of things

[pastel yew]

what about if you shove ;p

[somber axle]

tbh I wish melee weapons were weaker in general vs Carapace to make Crushers more of a threat

[pastel yew]

what if you run deadshot and have already shot twice and there are

[torpid grotto]

Yes then you wouldnt have to spawn 101919291 of them

[pastel yew]

18 different crusher

[fallow beacon]

blessings for hellbore?

[tall torrent]

Outside of knife idk which weapon requires u to spam PA continuously until you’re out of stamina

[pastel yew]

weight of fire and surgical

[somber axle]

they're just so slow and predictable, stacking on how most people build their melee and/or ranged weapons to instagib them makes them seem so weak

buff Crushers

[tall torrent]

Idk man that sounds like a scab melee maelstrom and I just think bringing a DC sword into that mode is a horrible idea

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I aint bringing that there

[fallow beacon]

i got surgical already so just gotta get weight of fire

[pastel yew]

its not a big deal on vet as krak grenades are the goat

[somber axle]

if you're running Revolver even if you 1 tap every crusher you still have 13 crushers

so just like

weapon spec

swap melee

slap poxwalker

swap back to revolver with always prepared

1 tap another crusher

rinse and repeat until all crushers gone

[pastel yew]

1 tap needs exe stance

unfortunately

[somber axle]

you can do it without

[tall torrent]

Then I don’t rly know a situation where there’re enough crushers to warrant u (alone) using primarily revolver against them

[somber axle]

it's just goofy

LOL

[pastel yew]

you can??

[somber axle]

I remember doing clown science to push a weird voice of command set up using it

it's possible but not something I'd recommend building for

[pastel yew]

mostly just to thin them out, and it's faster than using melee if theres just one

pull out the gat

bap bap bap

he's dead

all in the span of like one dodge

it's just time efficient

[somber axle]

it's just MUCH easier to one tap crushers using zarona revolver with exe stance vs without

[pastel yew]

I dont often use my revolver when running it outside of disablers, really fucky placed gunners and then crushers... its like the one gun I actually save

[tall torrent]

Heavy sword is also like
Not the worst thing ever vs carapace

It’s only really DC sword where u go “ah fuck”

[pastel yew]

its a very annoying boring string though

god when people say "just parry them"

its so

infuriating

like yes I'm aware, but in a mixed horde you can't always reliably parry and also hit their head

common reddit take

[somber axle]

I really want to love DC sword but wow you NEED a ranged weapon that can reliably delete Crushers or you're going to suffer

[rigid pilot]

Solo crushers are a non threat

Either a ranged solution or krak

[tall torrent]

“Just parry” mfs when the mauler next to the crusher does a slash which eats the parry and the crusher overhead lands as the riposte is going off

[rigid pilot]

Vet privilege

[thorn lark]

i pair dc sword with bolter, revolver or plasma

also, krak

[somber axle]

DC sword + Recon

[rigid pilot]

Krak and you stack the crushers together

[tall torrent]

It’s only really zealot where not having an anti-armor melee weapon puts u out of luck vs carapace spam

[thorn lark]

my recon can eat crushers tho

[rigid pilot]

Common zealot L

[somber axle]

Yeah that's the point LOL

[pastel yew]

but if you've got it its so fun

[somber axle]

You can just stack rending to melt Crushers

[pastel yew]

I wish more weapons had a parry

the parry is so forgiving

for how much damage it does

30 year long parry window

we aint had parries this easy since dark souls 1

[rigid pilot]

The devs definitely don't play many action games

[tall torrent]

Take shock maul with LR and pretend

[pastel yew]

shock mauls next on my craft list

I have the mats just no fucking pennies

[somber axle]

is there like secret parry tech where if you are 0.1 seconds into parry animation when an attack hits you get a perfect parry for no stam drain and higher damage

[tall torrent]

Shock maul is top 5 melee in this game

[pastel yew]

really?

it looked good but

I don't think it looked THAT good

[rigid pilot]

Saul is good

[thorn lark]

you should always have a way to take care of crushers / carapace

[rigid pilot]

Only never use it against bosses

[tall torrent]

I mean, if you consider it for each class then yes

[rigid pilot]

But it's probably equivalent to parryless DC vs bosses

[tall torrent]

Because stuff like Illisi / Deimos / DS4 are Psyker exclusive

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-armstrong-raiden-punch-ora-ora-ora-gif-15917456

[tall torrent]

But even looking at psyker I’d say shock maul is top 5

Cuz there just is no competition after knife

[rigid pilot]

Uncanny blessing

[pastel yew]

aaaaaaah top 5

right

gotcha

I was thinking like

literally every melee weapon in the game in a list

with it being within top 5 of the lot

[tall torrent]

Nah cuz then it’s just unfair

[thorn lark]

i use a claw as a psyker :/

[tall torrent]

And not rly conclusive in any meaningful way

[rigid pilot]

Just never take thrust on it

[pastel yew]

I can't use anything other than the dueling 4 on psyker man

[rigid pilot]

Ugh it's so bad

[pastel yew]

there needs to be more thrust weapons in the game

[last parcel]

dclaw thrust parry

[pastel yew]

wait which one gets a thrust parry?????!!

[tall torrent]

Thrust as in a stab moveset or the blessing

[pastel yew]

stab moveset

as a blessing I don't really like it outside of the bonk shovels and the thunderhammer

[last parcel]

i made it up

[last parcel]

just only push attack with the dclaw vii

[tall torrent]

What weapons do u wanna see with a stab orientated moveset

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/leon-chokes-choking-ada-wong-gif-26380793

[pastel yew]

some kinda rapier would be dope

a rapier with parry

[tall torrent]

Isn’t that just duelling sword but fancy

[pastel yew]

uhh not necessarily

I'd imagine any kind of rapier moveset would involve more mobility

[austere mica]

Need a spear

[frank ether]

I don't think agrip needs zarona levels of pen, I think its zarona that needs less pen. Agrip is too good at killing unyielding and too mediocre at other things so they could rebalance that a bit (while at it zarona could use a flatout nerf to unyielding), and then there are things that would balance both revolvers like cracking down on bullet magnetism and for agrip removing the spread so it relies more on your aim rather than magnetism to get the job done.

[pastel yew]

a spear would be sick

or a force staff for the psyker

[austere mica]

There are zero polearms besides pickaxe maybe

[tall torrent]

Duelling sword has very high mobility tho

[pastel yew]

yeah its just if you look at the fighting style for such weapons they're treat relatively differently

[last parcel]

helbore + spear for double stabbing

[rigid pilot]

Gif kerillian spear thanks

[somber axle]

I love dueling sword poke on psyker

[pastel yew]

its so satisfying

[somber axle]

quick special poke stagger a rager out of their attack animation

stab in face

[pastel yew]

its so fucking stupidly strong

[last parcel]

boop

[somber axle]

dead rager

...actually yeah why doesn't Zealot have like a spear or something

[pastel yew]

if zealot is getting a melee weapon then it had better be this.... one moment need to open the book

[rigid pilot]

James say no spears

[frank ether]

I'll be very sad if the crafting rework doesn't include a revamp to helbore 3 bayo

[tall torrent]

Wot

[frank ether]

I'd trade away shock trooper to have good bayonets again

they were fun

[rigid pilot]

James workshop probably hates spears on rejects

[rigid pilot]

My source is that I made it up

[tall torrent]

Oh

[pastel yew]

fucking flaming torch melee with a single use flamer shot special

[tall torrent]

Idk what other things they can add as regular melee Arsenal rn

[rigid pilot]

It can be used as a flamer

[pastel yew]

god I love 40k weapons

they're so stupid

[rigid pilot]

But isn't it magic tho

Heresy

[pastel yew]

no its just a flamer

imperial weapon innit

if we're going... slight heresy...

the hell rifle is like... my pipe dream veteran weapon

[rigid pilot]

Where the laslocks

[pastel yew]

laslock would also be pretty funny

there was one in ... fallout 4

[tall torrent]

Not happening lol

[pastel yew]

trash game, fun weapon

[tall torrent]

The best we’d get is longlas

[pastel yew]

a boy can dream ;-;

the hell rifle would be infinitely cooler than the longlas though

[tall torrent]

If they release a longlas I want a Tanith 1st & only themed skin for longlas

[rigid pilot]

I saw something

[indigo mural]

I just put 15% sprint efficiency on all 3 curios and god damn that's just amazing

[tall torrent]

[indigo mural]

then matched with stamina regen, also yummy

is 15% toughness just 15% toughness of my total toughness or an additional 15% toughness to my total toughness

does it give more toughness or does it make the toughess, toughnesser

[tall torrent]

+%toughness scales from base toughness (which includes talent tree nodes)

[indigo mural]

Ahh gotcha, good to know

[pastel yew]

huh I didnt realise those nodes counted

I thought they were just flat applied on top

berry interesting

[rigid pilot]

Afaik it doesn't stack multiplicatively

You basically take you base toughness + toughness nodes

Multiply the sum of your +toughness bonuses

Afaik

[thorn lark]

so i need > 200hp, some stam regen and some sprint efficiency

god

[rigid pilot]

Yea that's optimal

Or be a Chad and don't take sniper res and no HP

[thorn lark]

i never take sniper res

it has no value for me

[rigid pilot]

Gunner res is actually better imo, lets me trade so comfortably

[pastel yew]

where's +ordo dockets....

[thorn lark]

yep, exactly

[tall torrent]

Stam regen is nice but not fully necessary

[tall torrent]

Just take 1

[rigid pilot]

I gave up on sniper res

[tall torrent]

U can very safely run

3x sprint efficiency
1 sniper resist
2x gunner resist
3x dockets

[rigid pilot]

If I get shot I just cry

[pastel yew]

why can't I take 9x dockets...

FATSHARRKKKK

WHERES MY FUCKING MONEYYYY

AAA

[rigid pilot]

Just play more I have 13million

[pastel yew]

I don't play super often

I get worn out quick due to my hyper aggro playstyle

just constantly mentally active and moving no chill

so 2 games and usually I'm

[rigid pilot]

Get a psyker smite EP build and rot away

[pastel yew]

I'd rather die

I'd rather dip my balls in battery acid...

[rigid pilot]

💸

[pastel yew]

smite boring

[indigo mural]

is this a bleed until enemy dies or

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/off-work-work-working-paint-painting-gif-13957980

average energy level of auric when theres a smite psyker in the lobby

[pastel yew]

no

[midnight totem]

bleed until it runs out or enemy dies @indigo mural

[pastel yew]

works like normal bleed stacks

[indigo mural]

sounds kinda lame ngl

[pastel yew]

that's because it is

theres like

[indigo mural]

I have one point left, so much pain

[pastel yew]

a specific knife blessing that wants targets to bleed

but thats about it

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/sidious-there-is-no-mercy-star-wars-clone-wars-darth-sidious-chancellor-palpatine-there-is-no-mercy-gif-22048839

[indigo mural]

is this also ass

[pastel yew]

like I suppose it's probably fine against bosses... if you have literally nothing else

[midnight totem]

Bleed is weak against armor, but there are situations where it would be good

[pastel yew]

theresno way you have nothing to take outside of charismatic and serrated blade

can you screen shot your build path

[midnight totem]

uncanny blessing, and rending on shovels and knives help boosts bleed damage

[midnight totem]

knives also have a blessing that deals massively increased damage on headshots if targets are bleeding

[indigo mural]

maybe dis?

[pastel yew]

I was gonna say "no grenade regen?" until I spotted smoke grenades *cackle

[tall torrent]

No grenade regen?

[midnight totem]

Please take low profile or grenade regen

[winter grove]

I would adjust the infiltrate node talent

[tall torrent]

Drop Overwatch, get this

[rigid pilot]

Smoke grenades need regen

[pastel yew]

this one is good

[rigid pilot]

Toss one every encounter

[winter grove]

Consider either -90% threat or 50% TDR

[pastel yew]

low profile is also good

it all sorta depends

[winter grove]

Ehhhhh

[rigid pilot]

And I can never justify picking up grenade box when you carrying smokes

[winter grove]

That one works best with exec stance imho

[thorn lark]

same

[indigo mural]

but I love overwatch :(

[pastel yew]

honestly I would judge you as a human being if I saw you pick up a grenade box for smokes

[tall torrent]

Low profile is way better

[indigo mural]

B-but both

Overwatch is for clutching, I like

[pastel yew]

overwatch is more fun

maximum zoom

[winter grove]

I mean

You can do both

[pastel yew]

ture

[winter grove]

If you can afford it

[pastel yew]

true

you have a spare point

[tall torrent]

Then take both and drop smth else

[indigo mural]

I don't have grenade regen though

who cares about smoke grenades

[pastel yew]

dont worry

you have smokes

[tall torrent]

Yea, sacrifice smth else to get it

[thorn lark]

overwatch is 2 charges?

[indigo mural]

I just took it for the movement speed

[pastel yew]

yeah

at a slightly longer cooldown

[winter grove]

Dunno about grenade regen on smokes chief

[tall torrent]

Why wouldn’t u get grenade regen on veteran

[pastel yew]

could get this instead

[thorn lark]

i love it but i am sure i am not using it enough to justify that choice

i just like having 2 charges

[pastel yew]

not quite one a minute but its something

eans you dont gotta drop other shit

[indigo mural]

Yeah I dropped this just now because I noticed I pretty much never throw smokes

[pastel yew]

good

[winter grove]

Talent Economy

[pastel yew]

all my homies hate smokes

[thorn lark]

https://tenor.com/view/smoking-smoke-gif-25003355

[indigo mural]

I dont need the krak grenade

[pastel yew]

I ... need to use smokes at some point

[indigo mural]

knife slices through everything

[pastel yew]

for the penance

[indigo mural]

uncanny somethingsomething

[winter grove]

I run this and it doesn't have smoke regen
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9bd51d34-807d-4f7f-9fcc-c639a785d299/stealth-taxes-invisible-irs

[grand perch]

if everyone else is stocked on grenades then im sure as hell gonna grab a nade box for smokes

[tall torrent]

That’s kinda insane when demo team is just 1 point

[grand perch]

spend them like candy

[indigo mural]

yeah I did also pick this one because yknow

[pastel yew]

isn't the toughness damage reduction just

[tall torrent]

This one’s not as good as grenadier, sorry

[indigo mural]

it's either this or demo

[pastel yew]

worse threat?

[winter grove]

I have demo team

[tall torrent]

He has neither

[winter grove]

So there's that

[pastel yew]

aren't you effectively untargetted after stealth with the -90%

[winter grove]

Oh dear what

[indigo mural]

That's a good point

I'll swap out the revive crap for demo

[winter grove]

I thought you meant the 60s regen

Revive crap?

[tall torrent]

Also what weapons are u using with this