veteran-class

[plush heart]

how i prefer it over DI

[lusty sapphire]

I got myself a pretty bolter

[lusty sapphire]

I have both

[plush heart]

which one is it

[lusty sapphire]

What do you mean which one?

[plush heart]

ovenproof one ?

[lusty sapphire]

oh yeah

[coral willow]

ovenproof one has a fix posted in the comment

proceed with the instruction and grab a notepad++ while you're at it

[slow spade]

Mk6 is basically superior in all ways now

[radiant chasm]

mk6

mk6 can be activated into a push attack for massive single target damage,

[slow spade]

For some reason light powered and heavy powered attacks do the same damage

And MK3 is all about heavies lol

[slow spade]

Mk3 can too

[wraith perch]

MK6 it is then, thanks

[gilded wraith]

Sunder 20% buff to heavies gives the mk3 a nice tweak.

[odd sparrow]

it can but it doesnt stagger on the push-attack on the mk3 for some reason

[tall torrent]

Neither power sword’s PA staggers crushers or ragers

[slow spade]

Never could

[tame lodge]

Dunno if it could one shot muties before, but now it does

[frank basin]

hey yall is zealot that very easy play?

[tame lodge]

If you stay alive

But that's a given, no?

[frank basin]

i met a loner shrouldfield zealot

knife user

she like uhh do for clutch save the team

is that what zealot like?

[tall torrent]

Zealot is pretty simple yea

[tame lodge]

[frank basin]

shes like good player from vermintide a catalyst diff main

she use blade of faith and revolver

that sound typical zealot?

[tame lodge]

I'll assume she stuck around the team

[frank basin]

she more target elite enemies

[tame lodge]

Alright, seems like you had a good one

[frank basin]

she have gloryhunter on revolver?

[tall torrent]

A typical good zealot yea

[tame lodge]

As in not running ahead and dying

[radiant chasm]

that's typically not taken

[tall torrent]

At least throwing knife is pretty standard for good zealot players

[frank basin]

she watch true solo as her source for build

she said knife zealot is a crutch for her

[radiant chasm]

usually surgical+hand cannon

true solo gameplay is it's own niche

[tame lodge]

But yeah, sounds like Second Wind+Good Balance type build

[radiant chasm]

and it's just mechanical skill

[fleet thicket]

Are you eu ?

I played alot with random zealot name amelia

[tame lodge]

Zealot is easy
Getting good at zealot is easy hard

[radiant chasm]

no

amelia is a random name generator name

in character creation

so it's common, including myself i had a 3 amelia game

literaly skill floor is ogryn

but they also have the highest ceiling and highest learning gap to get used to higher difficulty

[tall torrent]

The new pickaxes are cool tho

[radiant chasm]

but they are also starting out being ridic tanky, big swings with high damage and high stagger

i disagree, ogryn takes so much game sense and mechanical skill to play in higher difficulties, all your weaknesses get exposed in auric damn/auric maels and if you can't adjust you will falter

that works until damnation or even entering auric imo

[frank basin]

so uh @tall torrent veteran use braced autogun with exe stance and marksman focus that okay?\

[tall torrent]

Why would u

[radiant chasm]

ogryn can take more punishments, but they will also TAKE more punishments as well

[frank basin]

because the zealot girl play veteran tried that out

[radiant chasm]

don't go marksman with brauto

[tall torrent]

ykw do as u please

[frank basin]

wdym by this?

[radiant chasm]

he's saying you'll find out on your own why you don't go marksman brauto

[plain escarp]

worth keeping?

[frank basin]

[tame lodge]

Yeah just change groaners

Slaughterer is aight, headtaker would be more ok

[tall torrent]

Play whatever u want

[tame lodge]

You could drop Bloodletter for Headtaker

[plain escarp]

What blessing should I change?

[plain escarp]

oh I have headtaker 4 blessing

do I place it instead of slaughterer and keep bloodletter 3?

[gilded wraith]

Does Increased attack speed impact the hold time to trigger a heavy attack?

[tame lodge]

Slaughterer and Headtaker stack

So bloodletter has to go

If you want to

[plain escarp]

so this will be a significant improvement?

and the weapon will be quite good?

[tame lodge]

Yes

[tall torrent]

It affects combo chain time so yes

[tall torrent]

Yes

[tall torrent]

No

[plain escarp]

meh

[candid agate]

is this worth it?

[tall torrent]

No

[candid agate]

ok

[tame lodge]

Yeah lacks take a swing

To pair with AoN of course

[gilded wraith]

Any perk changes if I'm looking to chain horizontal heavies?

[midnight totem]

Yes, change the sword to a mk3 because the mk6 has no horizontal heavies

[last parcel]

check under your fore skin again

[midnight totem]

Oh it is a mk3

Whelp

[tame lodge]

💀

[midnight totem]

The skin threw me off lol

I don't like flak though

[last parcel]

flakphobia detected

70 scab ragers deployed

[frank basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1053823148048527440/1257646428822700253/jack-black-peach_1.mp4?ex=66964d82&is=6694fc02&hm=b830e34cb95a40805b656a02c4df87d4a2eafbc05ebdba57770c7a76c5a0de2a&

[wanton dawn]

Just kill em

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-eyes-crying-face-gif-22671690

me watching knowing i've seen vets go down to a single rager in my games

[dreamy spade]

Should Terrifying Barrage work well with Powderburn

still mid

[lyric dock]

Is this enough toughness on Vet

When you have a enough spare points to yoink both vets +25 toughness value

[torpid grotto]

Autopistol?

Anyway doesnt powderburn only work on trash gunners, elite gunners, and reapers...?

[plain escarp]

I don't fw this

[torpid grotto]

Psyker brainburst 20 times in a row

[tame lodge]

Veteran type beat

[lyric dock]

Just use brain burst/Rupture 20 times in a sedition game

[plain escarp]

doesn't really wotk

[lyric dock]

It should

Unless it got patched

[plain escarp]

You need to kill like way more than 20

[torpid grotto]

Tf

[plain escarp]

Idk if teammate kills the target your bursting it might not count

[lyric dock]

Yeah that explains it

A "Helpful" teammate stole your kill

[wanton dawn]

I did this one by loading a sedition game solo with my vet

It has no time limit so

pretty easy

[lyric dock]

Surprise the bots didn't screw you over

[plain escarp]

I tried on sedetion. All three bots start emptying their guns on the nearest fodder

[clear lantern]

offer it to hadron and obtain blessing

[torn gorge]

today qp is a nightmare

wth

[radiant chasm]

Monday midday

Yea it’s gonna be shit

[torn gorge]

playing ogryn is especially aggravating

considering people are literally ignoring disablers

[pastel yew]

oh wait... sunder got buffed?

or am I tripping

I thought it was armor pen

[radiant chasm]

i swapped to camo vet specifically so i can ditch melee combat mid way to just shoot down specials and all the ranged enemies

[pastel yew]

or extra cleave on charge hits or something

[radiant chasm]

sunder is extra cleave on charged hits

[pastel yew]

not anymore I guess

check the image I was replying to

its increased cleave and increased heavy attack damage now

[radiant chasm]

they added heavy attack damage yes

they did similar to other blessings last major patch

[pastel yew]

I'll have to go back and more thoroughly read the patch notes

[radiant chasm]

adding in numerical bonuses on top of special effects

[pastel yew]

as there was another blessing I saw got a not so shit boost

finally

the plasma gun has been brought down from the heavens to rest among us mere mortals

take that plasmagun vets... guns useless now

[old quail]

until itemization rework when blaze away t8 will be restored to its ancient 10% power per stack

[tall torrent]

This doesn’t matter btw

The only plasma nerf that recently happened & mattered is the close range redefinition causing longshot to get nerfed which makes WS plasma unable to get non-Crit 1 tap breakpoints consistently

[pastel yew]

yeah I'm being sarcastic ;p

I just love the idea of some dev looking at the plasmaguns massive over performance and thinking

"man... maybe blaze away is 1% overtuned..."

its a change so minor I would actually love to understand what it's intention and reasoning was

there must be something hyper specific

oh wow I didn't know that

that's really good

[tall torrent]

It’s kinda (?) ok cuz blaze away is the most popular 2nd blessing for plasma even though it’s not that good

[pastel yew]

I took it before to make some breakpoints more consistent on subsequent shots without longshot but

now that longshots made less consistent it's definitely worth swapping out for something else

I guess its like.. "nice" for boss damage but the plasmaguns boss damage isn't really anything to write home about

[gilded rock]

Probably a crusher breakpoint on heresy or something

[old quail]

they're making all blessings tiered

power blessings with more "difficult"/unusual activation conditions are generally 40% instead of 25%

[lusty sapphire]

Plasma fell off

Trash

Unusable garbage

[bleak cradle]

What surpassed plasma as top 2? Zarona and __?

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver and Columnus Infantry Autogun I think

[gilded rock]

CIAG stronger than plasma?

[clear lantern]

FOR WHAT

[hearty panther]

recon lasgun

straight to the top

https://tenor.com/view/gurren-lagann-simon-gl-gif-21060787

[lusty sapphire]

There's a hidden mechanic where if you take recon

[gilded rock]

Reconners eating good for their faith paying off

[lusty sapphire]

You even consume the enemy's ammo

[unique orchid]

i still use the bistol and mg1a ILG or whatever

[hearty panther]

negative you consume their souls

[gilded rock]

still so hungry..

[lusty sapphire]

That comes after the ammo

[faint beacon]

urgghhhh so hungry... the recon user says staring at the 3 large ammo stashes

[lusty sapphire]

Recon lasgun the 5th chaos god

[unique orchid]

Gurren Lagann gif

[gilded rock]

https://tenor.com/view/get-in-my-belly-hungry-gif-5136807321430330592

[faint beacon]

Recon Shocktrooper users where you at

[tame lodge]

Vet named Nikocadus

[lusty sapphire]

Guys this thing one taps on body ALL the human elites and specials in game

[gilded rock]

Jeff Bezos doesn't use shocktrooper when he uses recon

Hoarding all the ammo wealth

[hearty panther]

yea boltgun is bae

lots of fun tech too

[vague smelt]

Got a question

which infantry Las is the best one so far

[shut valve]

i like the IV cause i like shooting fast, but the 1a is probably better(?) cause the damage

just imo

[gilded rock]

I haven't tried any of them yet because I don't have the full auto mod yet

😢

[tall torrent]

1a if u like reliable 2 tap headshots
4 if u care about practical utility above breakpoint min-max

[shut valve]

however; spam click into your mic

[torn gorge]

get the full auto mod

[gilded rock]

Woe, curse of hot mic + Lays upon ye

[torn gorge]

is a huge qol

[shut valve]

i do have it, just forget abt it more often than not lol

[tall torrent]

Full auto mod is nice but not necessary

None of the semi auto guns in this game shoot fast enough to warrant using it

[shut valve]

10 stacks of weapon specialist + speed stim with the IV (very, VERY situational but it's fun)

[torn gorge]

i wouldnt wanna play for hours without it rn tbh

[gilded rock]

One time a console player was breathing into his mic so hard I had to ask if he could share some of the air with me

[tall torrent]

He was merely afflicted by the blight

[gilded rock]

Clearly needs corruption perk on his curios

[old quail]

im pretty sure i heard like a metal sheet fall on a dude in a pub match once

[shut valve]

pubs are so interesting

[gilded rock]

When I hear someone with bad hot mic sometimes I like to make unintelligible noises that sound like they could be speech

Throw in a noise that sounds like a question sometimes

[winter grove]

Mg 1A

[winter grove]

I don't want carpal tunnel syndrome sorry

[tall torrent]

300rpm is not that bad

[thorn lark]

should i used determined with the recon? the 6d especially

[gilded rock]

Which one is that

[tall torrent]

Yes

[thorn lark]

agree, laspistol without autoattack is not a good experience

[tall torrent]

Because recon not only has extra ADS sway but also has shot deviation (bloom) when suppressed

[thorn lark]

Oo

damn

[gilded rock]

Ohh it's the immunity

[tall torrent]

It’s like how in some fps games ur shots don’t go exactly where your iron sights aim at

It’s very not fun

[thorn lark]

i have to chose between the point in onslaught or the one in rending then

[tall torrent]

Well that choice is simple

Rending is better

Onslaught is meme build

[thorn lark]

oh, seriously?

i thought onslaught was good with hi rpm

wait

i don't have shocktrooper here wtf

[tall torrent]

Only matters for magdumping crusher

[tall torrent]

U could drop stam regen delay and take frag instead of krak

Get one sub node for FT

[thorn lark]

ahhhhhhh

that's what i did

hmmm i like my stam regen delay but that is mostly overkill if i don't use a taxe, considering i have 3 stam and +36 stam regen

[thorn lark]

it matters a lot or not?

[winter grove]

I could try doing a mk7 recon build

[tall torrent]

Well, only if u plan on magdumping crusher

[winter grove]

Because despite recons being dummy on shooting speed

[tall torrent]

I’d go smth like this @thorn lark

[winter grove]

I like something that shoot slower and harder

[tall torrent]

Would actually take that 5% crit above a lot of other things just because ur running a recon

5% Crit chance is practically ~9.5% more crits

Marksman is good cuz it’s just +20% power for free

[winter grove]

What's mk7 blessings and perks again?

HH and Dum Dum?

[tall torrent]

Redirect fire depends on if ur melee needs it for breakpoints

Desperado is always good

Target down is nice but not necessary

Demo team is always good

[tall torrent]

Flak maniac, HH + dum dum

[winter grove]

Ah, so the usual

[tall torrent]

I think the usual 3 is flak/elite/maniac

It just depends

U usually can’t go wrong with these

[winter grove]

I thought like

Flakiac is the standard if you don't know the weapon very well

[tall torrent]

Well no

It depends on the weapon

At least on veteran most weapons have pretty well defined breakpoints

More than half of them don’t want flak + maniac

Most guns are some combination of maniac + elite or flak + elite

[winter grove]

Elite is really nice

[tall torrent]

None of the Helbore Lasguns need flak

As an example

[thorn lark]

i usually go flak elite or flak unyielding on my weapons

[tall torrent]

Usually for veteran you want to take perks based on available breakpoints

Even for the automatic guns where breakpoints aren’t very rigid it’s not just flak + maniac being end all be all

Infantry Autoguns scale really hard with crit, for example

A 5% Crit chance boost is like +11% practical crit chance

Columnus mk5 with both 5% crit chance talent and 5% crit chance perk is like 31% crit chance overall

That’s almost 1 crit every 3 shots

[mortal horizon]

after a bunch of testing of the double barrel in auric missions and auric maelstrom, Ive determined Manstopper on it is 100% necessary to make it feel good, and make it perform its job correctly. As important as thrust on a thunderhammer. The shotty just doesnt feel right without it, and you are walled from penetrating through the horde to hit specials, or killing waves of ragers in 1-2 shots etc

But there is a thread on reddit where most people are agreeing its not a needed blessing on it. I can only imagine lots of these peopel are heresy and below players, bc the shotgun feels completely different on that difficulty. Once in damnation + it falls off hard without manstopper + weapon specialist buffs.

anyone feel the same?

[thorn lark]

nope

i played with manstopper the last two days

[winter grove]

Just slap infested dmg

[pastel yew]

from my understanding manstopper is a significant boost

though not got it to do my own testing yet

[tall torrent]

First off I just wouldn’t trust DT subreddit for advice lol

[mortal horizon]

i dont even run infested, doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference as long as you run manstopper. The ability to hit and kill a trapper through the horde, or pen 5 ragers 100% transforms the gun imo

like can you run a TH without thrust? sure you could

but it feels way worse

[thorn lark]

i went from deathspitter + db to manstopper + db to scattershot + manstopper

[mortal horizon]

ya ofc, i just saw a lot of people saying its not necessary and ive been testing it heavily and manstopper completely transforms the weapon (as long as you are leaning into weapon master and getting free crits)

[tall torrent]

Manstopper is best in slot for DB shotgun

[thorn lark]

the only time i felt a noticeable difference was when i was using the shotgun with deadshot

[mortal horizon]

ya i dropped Both Barrels. Its a good blessing but with weapon master i almost never reload, hot swapping is the play and super fun. So I rock damage blessing + manstopper.

[tall torrent]

Deadshot is rly good with it but a lot of the time I can’t spare a point to get it

[old quail]

https://streamable.com/orxzbf

[tall torrent]

Cuz it already wants WS route

[thorn lark]

i have to make some hard sacrifice yeah...

[mortal horizon]

using manstopper or no?

[old quail]

manstopper

3 scab ragers is 30 hitmass

base cleave on it is 6.5

[tall torrent]

4.5

[mortal horizon]

ya nice shot

exactly why i like manstopper

[old quail]

close enough

[mortal horizon]

without i think you kill 1-2 there

[old quail]

the "cleave" guns have really weird numbers if it isnt 2

[mortal horizon]

and have to reload or go to melee and they start swinging again

[tall torrent]

It’s weird for this gun specifically because the first enemy u hit may not receive all the pellets

[mortal horizon]

in testing with creature spawner, I lined up a bunch of ragers and killed 35 with a single shot with guaranteed WM crit.
Without manstopper it kills 2 with that same crit

[tall torrent]

So u can have pellets that hit latter targets but not first

[mortal horizon]

now 35 ragers will never line up ina real match

but 4-8 might

[tall torrent]

If u go for a point blank meat shot it’ll be stopped at 4.5 mass

[old quail]

it's also a matter of there often being dense enough trash to cut significantly into the cleave

and manstopper just ignores that lol

[mortal horizon]

ya

the ability to hit a flamer through a mixed horde

and still kill it/do meaningful damage is super important

i killed a sniper earlier through like 20 poxwalkers

[tall torrent]

Manstopper’s strongest use case is deleting all Dreg ragers within 10m in front of u

[mortal horizon]

who was about to fire on me

[thorn lark]

i did not double my ranged dmg with manstopper

[tall torrent]

Which is an incredible benefit after the Dreg ragers got buffed

[mortal horizon]

ya the build crushes rager packs

[mortal horizon]

to me its less about the "damage" it deals, and more about the playstyle/utility it opens up.

[tall torrent]

It also can technically 1 tap all maulers within 6m in front of u but it’s nowhere as consistent

[mortal horizon]

ya ive had some good success with it vs maulers with +flak on mine and aiming center mass

killing like 4-5 in a shot before

[thorn lark]

i need a crit, otherwise i am like 10hp short....

[tall torrent]

Fire team

[thorn lark]

i use it

[tall torrent]

[thorn lark]

and i have lile 78 / 80 / 78

i have flak 3 and maniac 3 locked

[tall torrent]

U need flak on it I think

Best perks are flak / maniac / infested btw @mortal horizon

[thorn lark]

if only i had elite...\

[tall torrent]

Elite not that good for this gun cuz maniac enables mutant 1 shot with much greater consistency

[thorn lark]

oh right

this is why i run maniac on kickback

[tall torrent]

Being able to 1 shot kill mutant charging at u with a double barrel is peak cinema I’m afraid

[thorn lark]

also, maniac+ specialist if you want to be extra sure

[tall torrent]

[thorn lark]

unless you miss and everybody laughs

i shoud try deathspitter + manstopper with deadshot

i think that will net me the best results

[tall torrent]

Both barrels is still better imo

DS just makes continuous firing have a little better dmg consistency but it doesn’t matter that much with crits involved since ur going WS anyway

Both barrels just makes ur double shot uptime significantly better

[thorn lark]

so what manstopper + both barrels with deadshot then?

[tall torrent]

Manstopper + both barrels, deadshot is optional

If u somehow have points left to grab it

[idle pecan]

What last resistance should I take

I have 2 gunner 1 sniper 3 stam regen 2 tough regen

One more slot left

[tall torrent]

Take off toughness regen

[idle pecan]

Why

And what should I replace it with

[tall torrent]

Because it’s coherency toughness regen only

[idle pecan]

Still good no?

[tall torrent]

Sprint efficiency

[idle pecan]

Ok

[tall torrent]

No because vet’s toughness regen relies entirely on u killing things

[tall torrent]

Ordo dockets also nice

[idle pecan]

Ah ok

I might switch to sprint efficiency on all 3 pieces

So I have basically unlimited sprint

3 stam regen and 3 sprint efficiency sounds crazy

[tall torrent]

It’s not unlimited sprint but u can go really far with very minimal stamina spent

[tall torrent]

Stam regen is good but not fully necessary either

[thorn lark]

that is until you go into +36 stam regen territory and you're basically a zealot

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t change stam regen delay

[thorn lark]

i know

[idle pecan]

Vet has so many stam recharge delay nodes tho

[thorn lark]

that is why i use a stam regen delay node too

but to be fair, with enough stamina and stam regen, you are not really starving on stamina as long as you're careful

[idle pecan]

Deadshot users gonna be eating good

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s good for knife builds

I started not taking stam regen delay node on veteran with some builds and it’s still ok

[thorn lark]

also, taxe mk7

[tall torrent]

Most weapons don’t use PA that frequently

[thorn lark]

i can use the taxe mk7 without it, as well as the knife but it's a bit more dangerous

Path, i found a way to kill bulwarks without bothering with opening the shield

i just shoot the foot

[tall torrent]

Yea ik It works

But I don’t like feet so I usually don’t bother with that

[thorn lark]

[tall torrent]

It’s also usually easier to just VoC open a bunch of bulwarks at once

[placid portal]

Kinda glad that bulwark shield hitbox got fixed

[old quail]

or u could saul lawbringer game https://streamable.com/zsbp3p

god bless the minimum pellet count for unyielding on the lawbringer being higher than the actual pellet count

[thorn lark]

iirc ads is 16 and not ads is 4 or something like that

[radiant chasm]

bruh wtf is this

just get stam regen or something if you are worried about stam

or even block effic

[hearty panther]

dummy advice

[tall torrent]

3x sprint efficiency is based

[radiant chasm]

if i'm a dummy i need convincing

[hearty panther]

just know that all the cool kids are doing it 😎

[radiant chasm]

sprint effic sucks ass it doesn't help in most combat scenarios, stam regen always helps sprinting or not, and block efficiency will give you combat power at least

[tall torrent]

Honestly just go play with 3x sprint efficiency for a few games, trust me

[radiant chasm]

no cause i'm not mentally insane

if i see i'm running low on stam and i'll need it at my destination

well i'm never low on stam

i fucking slide

[hearty panther]

I can't convince you that increasing your stamina bar by 60% for sprinting is good

[radiant chasm]

I ALREADY DO that with sliding

[hearty panther]

now imagine both

[radiant chasm]

stam regen lowers the delay as well doesn't it? like how it works for coherency regen, so i'm regening during slides

[thorn lark]

block efficiency doesn't apply to push right?

[hearty panther]

nope

stam regen is just the regen amount

[tall torrent]

3x sprint efficiency allows u to go ~170m with sprint/slide mix on 6 stam

[radiant chasm]

alright fair

[hearty panther]

block is just block

[radiant chasm]

ON 6 STAM LMAO

get out of here templar

[thorn lark]

goddamn

[radiant chasm]

this is why we lost cadia

[tall torrent]

What

[thorn lark]

we taxe users are always shafted

[radiant chasm]

planet invested too much into stamina curios

[tall torrent]

What??

[lusty sapphire]

(I run 6 stam on deadshot)

[tall torrent]

6 stam is Rashad’s base value

When did I ever say I’m running 2x +3 stam

[radiant chasm]

what auric maels/auric damn is going to need you to sprint 170meters

[hearty panther]

+1 in tree

[radiant chasm]

sorry

my mistake

i assumed you meant 6 stam as in two +3 curios

[lusty sapphire]

Nah listen +6 stam curios is based

[radiant chasm]

what auric damn/auric maels is gonna let you to sprint 170meters

[lusty sapphire]

Infinite push attack

[tall torrent]

It basically means you’ll never run out of stam unless u PA more than u should

Honestly I think u should play with 3x sprint efficiency for a few games and see the difference

[radiant chasm]

before a trash shooter is on every angle so you get pecked by something

[tall torrent]

It’s very much a “u don’t know until u try” thing

[radiant chasm]

no because if i wanted more stam to spam push attacks

i'm taking a +3 curio

and stam regen

and then the two stam regen reduction nodes

[hearty panther]

then youre wasting stats

except that last one

[radiant chasm]

i'm literally, never, ever had a problem that sprint efficiency has

[hearty panther]

those nodes are awesome

[tall torrent]

Stam regen doesn’t make u PA more than normal

Stam regen delay does, but zealot doesn’t have it

[radiant chasm]

yes i'm saying hypothetically

i run 0 stam on vet outside of a +3 curio for deadshot

i have builds with no stam regen nodes cause i'm that insane

never, in my entire gametime

[pastel yew]

sprint efficiency is just nice

[tall torrent]

I rly think u should just try 3x sprint efficiency even just for trolling

[radiant chasm]

have I ever needed sprint efficiency to win anything

[tall torrent]

Like, consider urself trolling and try it for a few games

Light mindset

[pastel yew]

even though sliding is just way more stam efficient.. and the same speed...

and dodges shots...

[radiant chasm]

there is like, a million soft troll build i'd do insane

[tall torrent]

It’s not the same speed

[pastel yew]

maybe not with a mobility weapon

[tall torrent]

Slide is a bit slower in overall move speed

Compared to just sprinting

[pastel yew]

but with anything that hasn't got mobility it's almost identical

[tall torrent]

It’s not almost identical

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-boss-boss-mr-smiling-friends-freak-out-gif-14844394971938403544

[tall torrent]

It is notably slower

[pastel yew]

?

[radiant chasm]

sliding keeps your momentum

[tall torrent]

On knife it’s like 6.82 vs 6.5 smth

It’s a notable difference

Forgot numbers last time I checked but there is a difference

[pastel yew]

I just timed myself

[radiant chasm]

i'm going back to zealot chat, this is why cadia fell

[pastel yew]

rnuning across the psykanium

and then sliding

it was 9 seconds

both times

and that was with me fucking up and hitting the box with the slide on accident

[old quail]

in the world where you can actually just walk away from a lot of enemy types i am not super convinced by being able to sprint more

[radiant chasm]

yea but did you have 3x sprint efficiency curios

[pastel yew]

sprint efficiency =/= sprint speed

[old quail]

but also like

[radiant chasm]

i know, i'm being facetious

[pastel yew]

it'd only matter if I ran out of stamina which I didnt

oh

[old quail]

"good" curio perks are

not very helpful anyways

[pastel yew]

forgive my tism

[radiant chasm]

we are all tism down here

[pastel yew]

+ordo dockets unironically being the best

[old quail]

ofc

always on that GRIND

hustling

[radiant chasm]

idk, i like my solid, tried and true

[pastel yew]

never stop that penny grind

[radiant chasm]

hp and toughness minors

[hearty panther]

my pockets are literally full

[radiant chasm]

and at least one gunner and one sniper

[pastel yew]

I used to stack hp but... moving away from it now

the fire changes mean toughness is just ridiculous

[old quail]

all of my hp gets eaten because i play too aggressive and make one stupid mistake and just die horribly anyways lmao

[pastel yew]

that's normall why I took 3x 20% health and then stacked health and toughness

health is a resource

use it to int and be aggressive

[hearty panther]

the only stats dat matter

[old quail]

none of the defensive stats stop you from eating a trapper net because you were 0.2s off from staggering the net out of existence

[pastel yew]

the way the god emperor intended... the only health point that matters is your last

[old quail]

health as a resource doesn't really matter so long as toughness exists

[pastel yew]

combat ability generation isn't awful if you're looking to spam your shit on cooldown I guess

[old quail]

ur last point is the least valuable because u have the least room to play the game with

[pastel yew]

but if you don't press F exactly the moment it comes up, it's pretty worthless

[pastel yew]

its the most valuable because its the only one you can't lose ;p

I'm saying the rest of your health is to be used to make stupid plays

[old quail]

i think the vast majority of times you get to 1 hp you're going to go down anyways

[pastel yew]

but you cant do that iwth your last or you'd die

[tall torrent]

I’ll check again when I’m home

[old quail]

and toughness is way too easy to regenerate for me to ever evaluate "sustain as a resource" with health in mind

[hearty panther]

or you fukken hold on like a god

[lusty sapphire]

Getting staggered the nanosecond before you pressed dodge

[tall torrent]

I’m pretty sure sprint/slide is overall slower than pure sprint

[pastel yew]

if it is

its so minor that it doesn't matter

I do still take sprint efficiency if I'm going to use like.. a laspistol or some weapon that massively ups sprint speed

[hearty panther]

its also the case that you slide faster if you slide with stamina available

[pastel yew]

mostly because its nice to not have to spam constantly

[hearty panther]

and when your slide ends with no stamina available, you no longer have any ranged iframes

[tall torrent]

Move speed is one of the few stats where even 5% makes a big difference so idk

[cerulean void]

been running a crit build on a recon VI, what's the other two variants like?

[hearty panther]

less crit-based but still kinda

theyre more like a regular rifle instead of an lmg

[old quail]

i wouldn't evaluate sprint speed relative to distance covered when what matters way more is if it enables more enemies you can just run away from

[pastel yew]

I don't really agree outside of it just feeling nice, 1 extra meter in every 20 isn't gonna make the world of difference in the vast majority of cases

its just quality of life

assuming that's 5% total movespeed faster

[cerulean void]

I'm enjoying being able to ADS to tag enemies with infernus so they die distinctly after I've stopped firing

[old quail]

the game is not played moving from A to B at anywhere near full speed unless you have a 4stack of good skill level (you probably don't)

[hearty panther]

sleeping on that movespeed smh

[pastel yew]

not the usual 5% increase to movespeed nodes

also on topic of sliding

if you have enough stam cooldown reduction

[white minnow]

doesn't everyone bring a jeep to their missions

[old quail]

sprint efficiency is really good in the context of sprinting perpendicular to ranged fire for iframes

[pastel yew]

it's 100% stamina efficient

because your stamina you used to sprint into a slide

[hearty panther]

a warthog

[pastel yew]

regens before the slide ends

[old quail]

but like

[pastel yew]

which means you can maintain that pace 100% of the time

[hearty panther]

you need both nodes for that

[tall torrent]

On vet that’s taking both stam regen delay nodes

[old quail]

i think on most weaps u can still just walk away from poxwalkers n shit

[hearty panther]

otherwise it will run out

[old quail]

and they can't catch u

[pastel yew]

on vet yeah

[tall torrent]

U need psyker level stam regen delay to get there

[hearty panther]

not without some move speed, no

[pastel yew]

though psyker gets that shit for free pretty much

[hearty panther]

for poxwalkers

at least the 5%

[old quail]

groaners might catch you now

[hearty panther]

for groaners yeah

they will catch you lmao

[pastel yew]

though even with just 1 reduction you're seeing a lot of stamina return

[hearty panther]

fukkers can MOVE

fast as fuck boiiii

[old quail]

anyways when ur consistently performing 200 meter sprints in auric pls let me know because that sounds suck as fuck

i wanna race these dreg ragers

[hearty panther]

you already can

[old quail]

if you utter the word stealth

instant death

[hearty panther]

knife, first sprint node at the top for vet

[old quail]

vaporized

[hearty panther]

sprint efficiency on curios

youre done

[pastel yew]

used 80% stamina to run from pillar to pillar, 0% with two stam nodes and then 24% with one... with no stam nodes you use also around 24% actually

[old quail]

how many maps can u do that on

outside of solos

[tall torrent]

Sprint efficiency basically means u enter just about every fight with stamina to spare basically

[hearty panther]

i mean none

you never run 200m without seeing something to stab

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t matter how far you need to go

[hearty panther]

the point is always having stamina available

[tall torrent]

You’ll pretty much always have stamina ready to block/PA

[pastel yew]

blocking in darktide

smh my head

[hearty panther]

if you ever saw some boob sprint towards your body for a revive and then got block broken to pieces

sprint efficiency

[pastel yew]

blocking is just the backup for if your dodge fails kekeke

[old quail]

i mean in a real fight you also generally slow down or get shot (both providing stamina), there's a keystone that basically gives 25-40% stam for free on every engagement start

[white minnow]

The FitnessGram Pacer Test is a multistage aerobic capacity test that progressively gets more difficult as it continues. The 20 meter pacer test will begin in 30 seconds. Line up at the start. The running speed starts slowly but gets faster each minute after you hear this signal bodeboop. A sing lap should be completed every time you hear this sound. ding Remember to run in a straight line and run as long as possible. The second time you fail to complete a lap before the sound, your test is over. The test will begin on the word start. On your mark. Get ready!… Start. ding

[old quail]

that is not a unique upside

[hearty panther]

NO

NOOOOOO

the point is to always have stamina available

[tall torrent]

That ik but then again it’s related to talent point economy so it’s up to preference

[hearty panther]

talking legit at least 1%

if you have 1% stamina after executing your shit

you wont get guardbroken

[pastel yew]

all meaningless anyway, slide just better straight up

[hearty panther]

and you can still maintain iframes for ranged

and yes, ranged will just feed you more stamina

[old quail]

the context in which i need stamina is almost always in the middle of an engagement

[hearty panther]

but you take that stamina furhter and reduce the need for more toughness loss

[placid portal]

Veteran needs to take the endurance training program with their stamina

[tall torrent]

I think sprint efficiency’s main strength is that you’re basically never at 0 stam

[hearty panther]

vet used to smoke two packs a day

[pastel yew]

given my very basic initial test sliding is only 30% the stamina used compared to running, and thats with no cooldown reduction

also you're dodging shot

also you look 10% cooler

[hearty panther]

only 10%??

[placid portal]

Sitting all day in a trench and smoking ciggies every day makes a terrible athelete

[pastel yew]

its diminishing returns... one slide? very cool. every slide after that? less and less

[hearty panther]

dont worry the rat stew rounds out our nutritional deficits

[clear lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/oldschool-vincevaughn-stillholding-rings-gymnast-gif-14429731

[white minnow]

it looks less cool when the back of your pants has holes on it, revealing your rather conspicuous cheeks

[somber axle]

Triple Stam curios, triple sprint efficiency, triple Stam regen, Vanguard talent AND both Stam regen delay talent nodes

[old quail]

it looks even less cool when you use that stamina to jump directly off an instakill ledge

[somber axle]

Never stop running ever

[old quail]

https://streamable.com/1fqauz

[pastel yew]

all part of the plan

[white minnow]

i do not want to hear this from YOU

[old quail]

i didnt use any stam

it was an ult

[tall torrent]

And, at least on veteran, there aren’t so many other better curio perks to get over 3x sprint efficiency

[pastel yew]

I don't think sprint related savings are like... efficient... but they are really nice

[hearty panther]

wheres azrael

[pastel yew]

there's enough efficiency that can be shaved off of the top of any build that you can afford some nice quality of life stuff

[hearty panther]

my mans gotta back his team up

[tall torrent]

Gunner resist is nice, sniper resist u just need 1
Stam regen is nice
Dockets is BiS
Extra health & toughness are good

Yea that’s about it

[old quail]

none of the curio perks really matter

it's all about the insignia anyways

[tall torrent]

Also vet has that 200 health breakpoint thing

Which, running a +3 stam curio makes it a lot more limiting in terms of what perks u can get while still reaching 200+ health

[mortal horizon]

ya this is what im using rn, also have the second one but i like the first most.

[tall torrent]

So I’d much rather get 3x sprint efficiency and still have 200+ health very easily

[tall torrent]

I’d swap infested to maniac/flak personally unless ur playing knife

[mortal horizon]

ya probably a good idea

i was trying infested out

i use the first one more

full bore feels good on ogryns/bosses

[tall torrent]

Zealot doesn’t need to care abt this cuz zealot’s base stats are just gifted

Casually spawns in with 200 health

[old quail]

zealot's (health) base stats are gifted

u have to get some comically weird builds to have over 200 toughness

i meant health

in the first message

[mortal horizon]

what is this? I might not be worrying about it lol vets my least played

i usually toughness stack

[pastel yew]

max health on zealot

3x 20% + 3x 5% on curios

[tall torrent]

If u have >200 health and one 20% sniper resist, you can take 3 Poxburster explosions / 2 sniper shots and not go down

[pastel yew]

nothing feels better than full int into 0hp and then healing loads

[tall torrent]

It also means that u can get revived with 1 wound and not die from either of these in 2 hit

[pastel yew]

if you take even more than 1 of either of those you deserve to go down

[mortal horizon]

i have 164 hp, 230 toughness rn with my build. 40% sniper resist

[pastel yew]

pox bursters I can get as they can stack up or a team mate could avoid shoving

[mortal horizon]

bursters kinda fuck me up tho

[pastel yew]

but snipers should never hit you

it's not like their hitboxes are bugged anymore

[tall torrent]

It’s just a safety net for very low investment

[mortal horizon]

agreed, easy to dodge but sometimes you're surrounded/stuck, and sometimes they're bullshit and dont give enough warning imo

[pastel yew]

I guess it depends

[radiant chasm]

it's a good investment for lag/sniper bullshit

[pastel yew]

love me ordo dockets

love me stamina regen

[mortal horizon]

so i rock 40% resist bc idk what else i even want lol

[pastel yew]

love me tougness

[radiant chasm]

one sniper saves you a wounds worth of hp

[tall torrent]

And >200 health on vet is either 2x health curios or 1x health curios + 3x health perk/talent

[radiant chasm]

or something like that

[tall torrent]

So if u take a +3 stam on veteran you’re forced to go into the second route where u need health perks to get >200 (barely)

[mortal horizon]

I just rock 3 toughness curious.
I guess I shuold trade one for +Hp?

[tall torrent]

This is why I think sprint efficiency is really good cuz u just bypass the need for +3 stam on most weapons

And this allows u to run the turbo based 3x docket set-up on every build

On zealot it’s kinda just up to preference, u spawn in with 200 health and strong stam regen so u have to rly try to go wrong

[tall torrent]

Toughness is good but having 200+ health helps

[faint beacon]

First time I've ever seen Infested of all things get suggested

[tall torrent]

DB with infested kills 30 poxwalkers per shot at all ranges cuz of minimal pellet count

[thorn lark]

what is tha bp?

[faint beacon]

not even like?

[tall torrent]

For knife build it’s genuinely not bad

[faint beacon]

Groaner + Pox % or is just

Infested better cause of its higher %

[fleet thicket]

So guys you been using the shock mauls ?

[tall torrent]

If u have >200 health and one 20% sniper resist, you can take 3 Poxburster explosions / 2 sniper shots and not go down

It also means that u can get revived with 1 wound and not die from either of these in 2 hit

[faint beacon]

Yeah they're enjoyable but I like them every so often

[fleet thicket]

I been running it with infiltrate and desperado

[faint beacon]

Kinda fallen back to CS

[tall torrent]

Biggest reason: boss dmg

[fleet thicket]

CS ?

[faint beacon]

Chainsword

[tall torrent]

Shock maul is basically
In terms of boss dmg we don’t have boss dmg

[fleet thicket]

Oh

Well I run it with shot gun

[thorn lark]

i have been running with 180-ish hp and 190-ish since p13 T_T

[fleet thicket]

The shotguns all got amazing unyielding damage

[thorn lark]

I never knew

[fleet thicket]

Specially

Lawbringer with fullbore

Being soo nice

[tall torrent]

This is why zealot is the gifted class cuz they spawn in with 200 base health and have really good stam regen

[fleet thicket]

I mean guys melee vet is still fun

[old quail]

add in a skullcrusher saul and u absolutely destroy bulwarks/reapers

[mortal horizon]

i would certainly drop to 200ish toughness to hit 200hp. Is it worth? I would need to drop a whole curio + maybe a +5 toughness -> 5% hp

[white minnow]

josho is the most gifted of them all

[fleet thicket]

Oh YEAH IF YOU STUN THEM THEN PULL OUT YOUR SHOTGUN YOU ONE SHOT BULWARKS XD

[tall torrent]

Idk how much toughness u really need tbh

[fleet thicket]

ITS such a op interaction

[mortal horizon]

ive always been a toughness sloot, but was unaware of the hp breakpoint described above for vets

[old quail]

[tall torrent]

Well, there is a toughness breakpoint

It’s also really funny

But it’s not very practical

[fleet thicket]

For some reason the stun from smaul gives full stack of no respite xD

[mortal horizon]

is chsword better than chaxe for vet wm build mostly?

i have like a perfect rashad and ps6

[tall torrent]

What’s wm

[mortal horizon]

weapon master

gonna try a chain weapon next

[fleet thicket]

Weapon master ?

[tall torrent]

Weapon specialist prob

[fleet thicket]

Yeah probably that

[mortal horizon]

sorry

[tall torrent]

Personally I think mk4 Chainaxe is the best chain weapon rn

[mortal horizon]

weapon specialist

lol

[old quail]

the chain weapons don't particularly care about weapon specialist bonuses either way

[tall torrent]

Chainsword is just carried by zealot’s FotF

[mortal horizon]

my headcannon is its called weapon masterlol

sorry

[fleet thicket]

Yeah I think combat axe is probably the strongest weapon with weapon specialist

[old quail]

chainaxe is single target to the extreme chainsword is big hordeclear

[fleet thicket]

I think rashad is so insane with weapon specialist attack speed buff

[tall torrent]

If ur gonna go for chainaxe, go for mk4

[mortal horizon]

ya rashad is really nice

[fleet thicket]

Really ?

[tall torrent]

If ur gonna go for chainsword (on vet), think why you want a chainsword first

[mortal horizon]

not amazing at boss dueling tho i find, its ok at best wondering if a chain weapon would be better there

[old quail]

theres a specific breakpoint i hit with the mk12 for a non-revved thrust heavy one shotting both rager types

[fleet thicket]

I thought if you wanna do big boy damage for one shots you want mark 12 no?

[old quail]

i think it involved fire team

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s the only chain weapon with a safe single target moveset that actually kills things quickly

[fleet thicket]

Oh okay

Tbf

I love mark 12 😦

[old quail]

what are we defining as "safe single target" because im p sure if u tried to rely on mk4 chaxe stagger vs dreg ragers terrible things would happen

[tall torrent]

As in, not having to rev H1 for single target dmg

[fleet thicket]

Mark 12 does so much single target damage xD

[mortal horizon]

ok 1 more vet build question.
what is the most fun but also effective ranged weapon paired with executioners stance build

[fleet thicket]

Helbore

No question

[tall torrent]

Define fun for u

[mortal horizon]

idk good question

helbore ate the fullautos or the charge up ones?

[fleet thicket]

I think they mean they feel like aboslute God killing puny mortals

[old quail]

if u want the gun with probably the most relative value gained from exe stance it'd be bolter

[thorn lark]

charge

[tall torrent]

Well I’d recommend plasma then

[fleet thicket]

Which helbore with executioner stance

Does that

[tall torrent]

Cuz exe stance makes plasma have 1 bodyshot breakpoint

And u truly just 1 tap everything

[fleet thicket]

Plasma doenst really even need executioner stance it does that by itself xD

[tall torrent]

Without exe stance it needs headshots to 1 tap without crit

With exe stance it 1 taps pretty much everything?

[clear lantern]

why would you aim for anything else?

maulers maybe I guess

[mortal horizon]

i havent used a helbore in ages, since leveling lol ill try it

[fleet thicket]

Cuz helbore is more fun than

[tall torrent]

Consistency sake ? He said he wanted a fun gun

[fleet thicket]

Plasma in my personal opinion

[mortal horizon]

i saw the recon lasguns got buffed, they good with executioners now?

plasma is awesome but its my most used and im a bit tired of it

[tall torrent]

Idk abt u but using wallhacks with a gun that goes through walls sound pretty fun

[clear lantern]

I like helbore. I'll even use a Mk 2 and get slashing bayonet kills

[mortal horizon]

so im actually looking for non-plasma and non-revolver options

[fleet thicket]

As I said helbore

[old quail]

i will echo what i said about bolter

[fleet thicket]

You will become the ultimate krieg guardsmen

[mortal horizon]

ill try helbore, which model do you like?

[tall torrent]

Ok u can play recon / Columnus mk5 / Boltgun prob

[old quail]

if you lean into crits + pinning fire u get easy bodyshot breakpoints on most enemies

[fleet thicket]

I like mark 3 for 5 shotting beast of nurgle

[mortal horizon]

i havent enjoyed the bolter since they took away our free reload QQ. but i could give it another shot too

[fleet thicket]

But mark 2 and 1

Are generally better for their bayonet attack being so good

[old quail]

i literally never used the free reload ult when it existed

[mortal horizon]

thats tight have to hit weakspot* tho right? I also liked how the 3 deals with crushers well

[fleet thicket]

Nope

[mortal horizon]

sorry i meant weakspot*

not crit

[fleet thicket]

Just hit him in its weak spot xD

[tall torrent]

I rly think the free reload needs to come back now

[old quail]

old volleyfire with unwavering focus and the double reload talents having almost 0 opportunity cost meant u could just treat exe stance as a passive

absolutely not

[fleet thicket]

It's so insane

[old quail]

they should make exe stance not drop on swap

and that's as far as i'd go

[fleet thicket]

@mortal horizon however it is illegal for you not to pair your helbore with a shovel

[tall torrent]

If exe stance could reload ur gun Boltgun would have way better talent point economy

[old quail]

ogryn gets a free reload because all of the guns have gigantic reloads beside some of the single shot ones and you have an 80 second ult baseline that doesn't increase damage output unless you put two points into it

[fleet thicket]

You will get kicked from veteran union

[tall torrent]

Not illegal

[old quail]

exe stance has so many rider effects already on it

i would absolutely not add more

[fleet thicket]

It is illegal!

[old quail]

if you could swap to melee to deal with pressure your gun can't handle like 90% of its issues go away anyways

[winter grove]

Oh? It is illegal?

[tall torrent]

Make the Ogryn highlight sub node do the reload

[winter grove]

Remind me who we are again

[fleet thicket]

Yes

[old quail]

the highlight nodes aren't the problem

[winter grove]

Surely not the rejects who have broken the law

[old quail]

it's already baked in recoil/sway dampening, suppression immunity, ranged impact, etc on top of the damage

[tall torrent]

Krieg uses axes for close quarters, shovel is just a meme

[fleet thicket]

Not surs about you but I'm a inquisitorial storm trooper from krieg itself!

[fleet thicket]

Chainswords actually

But thats besides the point

run the shovels!!!

[winter grove]

Anything better than a shovel*

[tall torrent]

Fewer chainswords, mostly axes

[old quail]

also idk about u but the times where the bolter reload is my issue with the gun is v low

[hearty panther]

press xstance with bolter when i hit zero ammo like an idiot
reload tech the entire thing
still keep xstance up
ah yeah, its real boltgun hours

[old quail]

i have mastered the art of keeping exe stance up when i probably shouldnt (because i don't take determined on exe stance builds)

[tall torrent]

Besides, running HB1/2 + shovel is just saying “in terms of boss Dmg I have 2 kraks and that’s it”

[winter grove]

Just imagine if exe stance reloaded the gun

Ilas would have a great day

[fleet thicket]

No it would be too op... like PBB

[mortal horizon]

oh i never use the shovel, is good? what model should i roll ill try one

shovel on ogryn slaps

[fleet thicket]

Well @tall torrent has made great guide on them

Me personally love all of them

[tall torrent]

If ur going for shovel, either standard issue because u just want to use standard issue, or mk7 if u want to 1 tap crushers

[fleet thicket]

But I think mark 7 is the most well rounded one

[tall torrent]

Don’t bother with mk3

If ur gonna run mk3 just go Chainaxe or smth

[fleet thicket]

Wait why???

[mortal horizon]

how does the 1 tap crusher version do in general anti horde and mixed horde? not as good?

[elder fiber]

mk3 doesn't have anything going for it

[tall torrent]

It’s just a worse mk7

[uncut pebble]

The mk7 also just performs well for 1shots without having to charge.

[fleet thicket]

But it still one taps crusher man

[uncut pebble]

Iirc you can 1shot both types of shotgunners if you hit their heads.

[fleet thicket]

Plus It got better boss combo

[tall torrent]

It’s a little worse than standard issue (cuz slower heavy atk speed) but not that much worse

Shovels in general are avg~below avg in horde clear tho

[fleet thicket]

Fold heavy heavy 2

Also the foldable thing doesn't getting you killed

Like mark 7

[uncut pebble]

I wish it would stay folded and just changed the moveset instead of being a one and done attack.

[tall torrent]

Yea at the cost of 25% slower horde clear and worse overall moveset, no thx

[fleet thicket]

Mark 7s fold legit will get you killed

[winter grove]

You're exaggerating

[elder fiber]

og shovel also has higher dmg on lights and better swing profile than mk3

[tall torrent]

That’s the neat part, don’t use it unless ur willing to commit to it

[thorn lark]

refresh should not be a node but baked into the ult... i want a reload node tho

[winter grove]

There's like

[white minnow]

it should not ever be baked into the ult

[winter grove]

3 enemy types you use folded heavy on

[fleet thicket]

Yeah its heavies are also much faster than other two

[white minnow]

exe's stance is already a very good quality-of-life ult and doesn't need even more baseline effects stacked into it

[winter grove]

Crushers, Maulers and Bosses

Everyone else is light fold attack and then l3>l4

[uncut pebble]

The folded light works fine on anything that isn't one of those 3 targets, yeah.

[fleet thicket]

@mortal horizon also honestly all shovels are good

But its a huge moveset preference

[tall torrent]

Mutant

[uncut pebble]

One tapping shotgunners is fucking mint.

[winter grove]

Ok 4

[tall torrent]

Not the mk3

It’s just SI / Mk7

Mk3 is just not worth it

[winter grove]

But I got the 3/4 of them

[thorn lark]

not really but ok

[elder fiber]

idk 3 is usable but in a kinda wonky spot

[fleet thicket]

I don't understand it got the safest single target combo though

[tall torrent]

Mk7 has PA > L3 > L4

[thorn lark]

on the other hand exe stance is all what fotf should be

[winter grove]

Exe stance tree suffers from having shit talents

[thorn lark]

you want speed? pay

you want crit? pay

[uncut pebble]

The whole left side just needs a rework, imo.

[thorn lark]

and not just 1 point for everything and another for the same

[fleet thicket]

Yeah but you can commit much easier than other 2 shovels on a single target man come on its just more single target than the other 2

[old quail]

theoretically infinite ult uptime needs a point cost but i'd bump exe baseline to 8 seconds and make it not drop on swap

the reload is too much for an ult that makes you leaps and bounds the best ranged combatant regardless of guns just from the handling changes alone

[uncut pebble]

Marksman's focus punishes you for daring to pull out your melee weapon, exe stance isn't very good because guns work fine on a standard level, and shredders are just weak as hell in the grand scheme of things.

Not to mention that the passive talents themselves aren't very good, either.

[white minnow]

yeah it is? you've got stun/suppression immunity, sway reduction, deterministic recoil, and +100% impact and maybe something else that i'm forgetting

[elder fiber]

shredders weak lmao

[winter grove]

Shredde grenades?

Am I reading this right?

[old quail]

evaluating exe stance purely from a damage perspective is going to make it look much worse than it is

[uncut pebble]

Yeah shredders need the extra grenade and typically you can drop a horde faster than the bleed will.

[lyric dock]

1 more vet challenge to go

[tall torrent]

When you factor into having to hold heavy atk to charge thrust stacks to 1 tap crushers, it’s not much safer than mk7, but the downside of 25% worse horde clear and worse overall moveset is much worse

[white minnow]

is this a "x is only good for hordeclear" argument

shredders are going to shred human elite packs as well

[uncut pebble]

No.

They're just very situational.

[winter grove]

Ue

[uncut pebble]

The other grenade types are not.

[white minnow]

WHAT

[thorn lark]

ok but i am using exec the bolter

[old quail]

i did this by running melee maelstroms solo/with 2 friends using the manymoretry mod with all the nade regen talents

[winter grove]

Now that's what I call a quality bait

[old quail]

u get a lotta grenades that way lmao

[thorn lark]

and i'd rather use voc + determined + deadshot + focus target

[white minnow]

...which is going to be in my favor because guess what weapon massively benefits from exe stance's quality of life?

[uncut pebble]

You're going to see lots of carapace and ogryns throughout a level, and smokes have a greater utility than shredders do.

[tall torrent]

He’s not baiting he’s just wrong most of the time

And I’m too tired to argue that part

[old quail]

any point that is summed up by "voc better" is useless because voc is incredibly overtuned in the current game state

[winter grove]

So you're telling me he's serious

Oh god

[uncut pebble]

I am serious.

[old quail]

voc and ult cdr needs to be nerfed

[lyric dock]

That's how I been getting it overtime

[winter grove]

Idk if that's worse than this being bait

Nah it is

[uncut pebble]

By all means, explain how I'm wrong, if I'm even wrong at all.

Genuinely I'm open to other opinions.

[winter grove]

Throw one shredder

Everyone drops of floor

Crowd control for everything

[tall torrent]

There’s only 1 carapace core enemy in this game

[winter grove]

Including carapace packs btw

[tall torrent]

2 frags wipe elite waves

[mortal horizon]

so it'll feel like a nerf over rashad, but maybe be more fun/interesting? bc rashad slaps but gets boring

[winter grove]

Especially that btw

[elder fiber]

kraks can't secure revives/objectives nearly as well as shredders

[uncut pebble]

I could also just use a gun to delete that elite pack.

Or, yknow, my teammates can do everything a shredder can do, better.

[tall torrent]

Well, almost everything is worse than Rashad

You play these other weapons to have fun

[old quail]

aren't you the guy who was complaining about shitters constantly in your games

i don't think they can

[white minnow]

shredders also don't need the extra grenade
it's nice to be able to throw them in pairs back-to-back but it's also whatevs
It's a talent investment choice that you make like with any other investment

[uncut pebble]

I give a zealout with any weapon 5 seconds to delete a pack of shotgunners.

[mortal horizon]

ya lol gotcha,
uncanny + thrust on shovel? Does it not get BM?

[thorn lark]

i know but i can mitigate most of the bolter shortcoming with some talents and have toughness regen on command too

[tall torrent]

He was saying brain burst / purgatus is great boss dmg too

[white minnow]

i'm glad you picked the lowest hanging fruit of shotgunners

[uncut pebble]

For the sake of this argument, we are going to assume that they are at the very least competent.

[white minnow]

no other human elites that people complain about often exist

[old quail]

u can't assume that

bad hypothetical

[tall torrent]

So I’m just over it lol

[elder fiber]

ep bb can do okay burst on boss

[winter grove]

Maulers packs? Nah those don't exist

12 dreg ragers?

[old quail]

i can make any weapon that isn't top tier meta sound awful by the existence of one plasma shout vet with a brain

[winter grove]

Never heard of

[thorn lark]

same argument for fotf

overtuned

[white minnow]

sure but at this point it's just an alternative build that you're running
the existence of other builds and choices does not invalidate other builds/options that fulfill a similar role

[old quail]

chastise just isn't as game-warpingly oppressive as voc is by any means

especially not after the latest nerfs

they are absolutely not at the same level

[white minnow]

people need to learn that redundancy is not a mark against any specific thing

[tall torrent]

TLDR we should buff Killzone

[thorn lark]

sorry if i did come across like that

not my intention

[tall torrent]

How to make exe stance better
Step 1: buff Killzone

Make Killzone great

[uncut pebble]

Or don't instantly cancel it when you pull out your melee.

Lord forbid you want to reposition.

[tall torrent]

Veteran shovels don’t have BM

[old quail]

to be fair here a lot of the people i see complain about exe stance dropping on swap give me hypotheticals that include being unable to dodge poxwalkers without cc

[wraith perch]

which chainsword do you recommend?

[swift bear]

What's a fun but still gun that isn't the columnus MK V... I want to try something new.

[wraith perch]

Bolt pistol or Bolter

[tall torrent]

No it’s more that having to push hound / Poxburster or kill mutant quickly just takes u out of ur ability

[uncut pebble]

Bingo.

Though I'd like to have a knife as my melee for a fast reposition.

[old quail]

yeah and exe stance gives you awareness to deal with them faster than any other ult/class

[uncut pebble]

It's both for me.

[winter grove]

There's a way to take out hounds and muties behind you with exe stance?

Do tell me how

[old quail]

the fuck are u swapping to melee for if you're not FACING the enemy

??????

[white minnow]

why would you ever utter this sentence
this is not the argument to make