veteran-class

[nimble holly]

I see

[lusty sapphire]

Not now at least

[faint beacon]

But atm it’s not great to run at all

[radiant chasm]

New blessing system, all weapons in your inventory stay as they are

Your blessing library will be turned into mastery for their respective weapons

[lusty sapphire]

Literally ciag does everything better

[radiant chasm]

That’s also true

But hypothetically

On shredder

[junior needle]

Your blessings are scuffed and powderburn is quite bad, take pinning instead

At least the perks are fine

But shred is not a good performer atm

[faint beacon]

High Finnesse, High Base Damage, Crit strings.

Naturally it’s going to overshadow everything and that’s why I’m not super huge on using it

[radiant chasm]

You want pinning fire and blaze away, and even raking fire for a stealth build before you want powderburn

[junior needle]

Weakspot hit would make its use cases even worse for most guns

Because those generally do even more damage than crits and the issue is you obliterate targets well before you get good value from it.

[pseudo fiber]

:(

[lusty sapphire]

Skill issue

Gamble better next time

[faint beacon]

How it feel…..

[junior needle]

puncture is another one that's uh

A bit undertuned

[pseudo fiber]

it quite literally is

[lusty sapphire]

You think I was joking or being sarcastic

Drop them dockets onto brunt pal

[crude fiber]

Just roll a 80 damage one forhead

Just do it

[bitter turtle]

You actually

[civic knot]

Change elite -> flak, oppertunist -> skullcrusher on right on and use that instead??

[bitter turtle]

Need an 80 dmg bist

Bistol

For puncture meme

To kill dreg gunner

[civic knot]

Run 25% unarmored to reach that or is 10% elite enough?

[bitter turtle]

That's with 10 elite

[civic knot]

only?

[bitter turtle]

And superiority complex on tree

And that's it

No other dmg boost

[civic knot]

nice

[bitter turtle]

Puncture let's u just barely kill dreg gunner and flamers

I'm still trying to make my ideal one

80 dmg puncture+DA

Maniac elite

I don't really like surgical

[civic knot]

what about flak gunners?

[bitter turtle]

On bistol

[zealous thunder]

Is Sunder for Power Swords even good?

[bitter turtle]

They die regardless

[bitter turtle]

Yes

[civic knot]

btw, thoughts here?

[bitter turtle]

You probably want sc on a hammer blow shmaul over HV

[civic knot]

ye but what perks?

[bitter turtle]

I'm not sure how falter does compared to hammerblow

Haven't tried it

What are you running flak to kill jw

[vale ledge]

I wish we’d get like a hellboure lasgun skin instead of just “different color”

[bitter turtle]

Even horde is mostly unarmored outside of dreg bruisers and I don't think any flak elites change much with flak perk

Maulers and crushers are cara

[civic knot]

not maulers bodies

[bitter turtle]

You have strikedowns on heavies

You're gonna hit their head usually

Which is fine btw

Shmaul vs cara is not bad at all

I can special into 2 tap crushers with mine

[radiant chasm]

Falter is just worse hammerblow on crusher i assume it’s the same for saul

[sinful smelt]

Realized my old power swad had BM so I managed to finish my new power sword

[civic knot]

I havent managed to get a crusher to fall over even will hammerblow 4

[radiant chasm]

Yea i dont see much point in hammerblow over lightning reflexes

[hollow hinge]

sup homies

How ya'll liking the bolt pistol

[umbral scaffold]

Fun but sway or suppression makes headshots hard to land at my skill level

Just wish the bodyshot damage was a bit better

[hollow hinge]

i like how they upgraded it to be more aoe than single target

[umbral scaffold]

True

I kinda wish the shrapnel of the explosion applied rupture bleed to other units

But that seems way overtuned

[hollow hinge]

theres a trait that does that

Atleast i'm pretty sure

[midnight totem]

It does not

[hollow hinge]

😦

[umbral scaffold]

Lethal proximity makes it explode at any range and increases it by 25%

Rupture only works on direct hits and doesn’t apply to the aoe

[hollow hinge]

oh

Shame

[umbral scaffold]

Still solid

[hollow hinge]

Yeah

[umbral scaffold]

I like it, even tho I use way more ammo than I should

Optimally surgical and deadly accurate is best for dmg and ammo efficiency

[tame lodge]

Otherwise you would have mini frag grenades, pair it with WS extra RoF and hoo boy

[umbral scaffold]

But I like explosion

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/a-man-can-dream-though-sigh-futurama-professor-farnsworth-gif-14501112

[tame lodge]

💀

[umbral scaffold]

Also I wish the bolter got lethal proximity

[tame lodge]

(I know this episode at little too much)

[umbral scaffold]

But the bolt pistol needs its niche

[midnight totem]

You know

I'd give the bolter a ranged version of haymaker for knives

Just for fun

The less ammo in the chamber, the more likely the next shot will deal lethal damage to any human sized enemy

[civic knot]

@tall torrent Do you know how much finesse value you need minimum on Agni shock maul to reach flamer light attack 1 shot?

[thorn lark]

https://dt.wartide.net/calc/

I don't think you can

even with all the melee buff

[tall torrent]

idk, didn't check agni

[muted knot]

It feels Like a sidearm and i Love it

Sometimes you Just gotta whip Out your boltpistol to make a bitch ass bruiser die

[civic knot]

Could someone explain what these numbers mean? this is on:
https://dt.wartide.net/calc/

[midnight totem]

man, the shockmaul can absolutely fuck bosses

popped a red potion and used the alt fire to melt a captain's shield

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/machi-plug-bunny-rabbit-recharge-gif-10128529

[midnight totem]

no thats Slaaneshi captains

[wise fossil]

Tofay I saw a recon gunker with bubble shield and brain burst 😆

Idk if I've ever seen any gunker without SG tbh

[civic knot]

how much extra damage to maniac is 10% rending?

[last parcel]

depends on the weapon's adm

[civic knot]

Agni shock maul

[scarlet wave]

Talking about shock maul is Falter even worth putting on it? since the special attack staggers most enemies i never noticed much of a improvement

[last parcel]

based on the stats from gameslantern, it looks like agni has 0.8 adm for maniacs
0.8 + 0.1 = 0.9
0.9/0.8 = ~1.12
so around 12% damage increase if this is correct

[civic knot]

Im trying to take this value here and slap on some multipliers in a calculator and see if i can break 1400

which is what i need for flamer 1 shot kill on light

[junior needle]

At least he took bubble

and not vent

[torpid grotto]

He was proccing kinetic flayer like a genius

[heavy rover]

I have been converted, recon lasgun is hilarious to use

[last parcel]

welcome to the circus

[fleet bronze]

Still prefer the kantreal mk1a lasgun

[umbral scaffold]

But it’s so fun to get fully stacked weapon specialist and attack speed stim and completely have fun for like 3 seconds

I love having fun for 3 seconds

[torpid grotto]

Laser hose

[scarlet vessel]

i guess you're not suppsoed to shockmaul special 1 crusher/mauler when they'res 8+ of them at once

[last parcel]

[umbral scaffold]

Local man finds out why people stopped using chain weapons

I hate it here

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-bubble-sealed-away-forever-gif-25826821

[umbral scaffold]

I just want all weapons being good and diverse

Same

I don't like funneling myself into knife because it's the only weapon where I have idiotic levels of mobility, or PS6 because it's crusher combo central

Chain weapons are more effort and risk for less reward, devil's claw doesn't have funny rending, combat axes are bland and boring and lame

[umbral scaffold]

Nothing beats mobility

That much utility is insane

I've been trying some force sword stuff after religiously using dueling sword

It's like I forgot how to play the fucking game

I swear it’s the delayed push

Otherwise force sword would click with me

I got so used to getting in, stabbing something and getting out

The mad dodge distance

Finesse is such a yummy stat

The infinite joy of avoiding damage

[thorn lark]

og warp charges revolver illisi gunker still goes hard

[umbral scaffold]

More weakspot and crit damage please!!

Yesterday I was almost clutching a match with a dueling sword and outpacing a whole-ass mixed crowd with bulwarks and ragers while having extra time to kill ranged elites harassing me

I was the human equivalent of a bar of soap

The freedom was heavenly

Story time

[uncut pebble]

That's me but on knife zealout.

[umbral scaffold]

When the blue chainaxe launched, I couldn't stop dying

[uncut pebble]

I have a hard time dying when I move like I've buttered the floor and waxed the bottom of my shoes.

[umbral scaffold]

I felt like I didn't dodge anything and was walking in mud

[thorn lark]

chainaxe mobility is bad

almost as bad as psword

but strangely, it's quite sprint efficient

[umbral scaffold]

I think the power sword attacks slightly faster

[thorn lark]

chaxe 4 lights are fast tho

[umbral scaffold]

Which I hadn't paid attention to until I played knife without the 10% attack speed node

I actually carved the 10% in my muscle memory

I had never played something so uncanny

[thorn lark]

combat axe without that 10%... that's rough

i feel sluggish

[umbral scaffold]

It looked like a dog, smelled like a dog, barked like a dog, but was actually Theseus' ship

[thorn lark]

knife pun

[wise fossil]

With shriek? Do you just roll a really low warp resistance on the Illisi?

[umbral scaffold]

This is why I'm against passive attack speed

I shouldn't "fix" a weapon's feel with it

[thorn lark]

you can go high warp res with slaughterer uncanny and spam lights, or low warp rez wiith slaughterer + unstable

[umbral scaffold]

Riposte/uncanny, mettle, camp sword and shout off cooldown

Goateded

[thorn lark]

you can use Brain burst as a complement to the revolver, or just take one point in smite to get the lmb insta stagger and use it in melee

you want slaughterer tho

[umbral scaffold]

Smite LMB enjoyer

[thorn lark]

well used it's a life saver agains patrols

[umbral scaffold]

Slaughterer is something I very reluctantly give up for riposte

I just need those empathic evasion and mettle procs

[thorn lark]

slaughterer riposte is good as well

but no more infinite dodges is hard 😦

[umbral scaffold]

Bro, I remember

[thorn lark]

uncanny is fine but you can do without, and cheesing venting shriek is on the chopping block i think

[umbral scaffold]

When we had infinite dodges, I'd tank the daemonhost by dodging in a circle around her

[thorn lark]

(especially if you have a rev and/or br)

you could run the entire map side dodging

[tall torrent]

uncanny needs to be tuned down

and should only work for melee

100% rending that applies to DOT is turbo busted

[umbral scaffold]

Rending is in a tricky spot

[tall torrent]

it kinda isn't because most things don't need rending

[umbral scaffold]

It makes non-carapace weapons suddenly really good against it

[tall torrent]

veteran doesn't need rending for most weapons

[tall torrent]

depending on the %rending

[umbral scaffold]

Which is okay, but then it just applies to a lot of other things and becomes an instant pick

[tall torrent]

uncanny strike specifically needs to get brought down

[radiant chasm]

could make rending flak/cara only

[umbral scaffold]

Minor rending is okay-ish

[radiant chasm]

so it's niche

[umbral scaffold]

Then uncanny comes like HEY 24% 5 STACKS LMAO LOL

[radiant chasm]

but uncanny def needs a nerf even if it's to 100% at max cause lmao you can't get rending bonus higher than that anyways

[tall torrent]

the only rly bad case of rending is uncanny and it's not healthy for any of the weapons it's available to

[radiant chasm]

nah rending is still a damage boost for everything besides unarmored and infested, shouldn't effect maniac and unyielding imo

[tall torrent]

it needs to be lower max value and melee only

[umbral scaffold]

Uncanny strike singlehandedly holding the door shut on smackdown

[tall torrent]

they can already code "melee rending", they should do that for uncanny

[tall torrent]

on what, knife?

[umbral scaffold]

Smackdown gang rise up

[tall torrent]

smackdown is pretty bad on knife

[radiant chasm]

pretty sure smackdown is being door shut by 5 different blessings

[tall torrent]

it needs a successful stagger, not just a valid stagger

it's bad

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/you-wouldnt-get-it-joker-smoking-gif-15952801

[radiant chasm]

riposte exists, smackdown is irrelevant

[thorn lark]

you should not get uncanny on high cleave weapons

[radiant chasm]

also, zealots are moving/testing a build with riposte+precog, since the crit adms don't NEED rending

[tall torrent]

riposte/precog is debatably better

[thorn lark]

also, deathblow, brutal momentum should be reworked

[tall torrent]

and u can run with momentum on it

it's good

[radiant chasm]

if you aren't running blazing uncanny is better

[umbral scaffold]

I was one of the actual maniacs trying to stack crit to one-shot poxwalkers on knife lights

[radiant chasm]

those blessings going to be ryze of darktide isn't it

[tall torrent]

best solution is prob to just rework combat axes

[thorn lark]

i am confident riposte will go from 6s to 2s

[radiant chasm]

no

cause shovels

also abuse BM (ogryn, not vet)

[tall torrent]

make it hit 3 ig

[radiant chasm]

hswords, they'd be fine, just going back to rampage ht, and pswords to sunder pc

[thorn lark]

that was my shroudfield setup for the penances.... i didn't need uncanny at all

[tall torrent]

I think combat axes should get a little higher cleave to compensate tho

[radiant chasm]

shields def would need a rework alongside shovels and combat axes

[tall torrent]

not this 1.5 cleave bs

move it up to 3 or smth

[radiant chasm]

isn't antax at 3 now

[tall torrent]

no

[radiant chasm]

or was i hallucinating

[thorn lark]

wdym?

[tall torrent]

ogryn shovel 1 hit 4 ragers with folded H1

[radiant chasm]

ogryn shovels just had to be nerfed because they were killing 4 crushers per swing

BM is still insanely nice for them, as is the ogryn shield

both use BM to be functional imo

[thorn lark]

ahhh you were talking about shovel bm lol

[tall torrent]

I think combat axes need a bit of cleave in their attacks, but nerf BM down to 3 targets

or if nerf BM down to 2 targets, buff combat axe cleave by a sizeable margin

1.5 cleave melee is crazy

[thorn lark]

buff tac axe pa cleave plz

[tall torrent]

both combat axe and tac axe can use some cleave buff

BM needs to get nerfed

preferably down to 3 tbh, then keep combat axe light cleave at like 3?

achlys combat axe needs some extra love

make H1 cleave 12

why not

[thorn lark]

that would be cool

H1 cancel H1 cancel H1

or boring

[tall torrent]

and achlys rly needs a moveset rework

having to constantly block cancel after 1 attack is not fun

or interesting

[thorn lark]

H1 and H2 could be like evis x15

https://tenor.com/view/monero-xmr-privacy-fungibility-end-the-fed-gif-20629542

so this is just a rumor

but

during a stream

[winter grove]

Taxes might become knife alternatives?

[thorn lark]

telopots was alluding to a bolter recoil rework before / for the crafting update

[umbral scaffold]

I'm a boring man, to me there are 4 movesets:

• horde light and strike heavy
• horde heavy and strike light
• mixed with strike H1
• mixed with horde H1

Mixed means heavy + light does a horde or strike combo

[thorn lark]

i stopped using knives and went back to taxe (on zealot and vet)

[umbral scaffold]

The rest is too complicated for my brain

[tall torrent]

smth like this
nerf BM & deathblow down to 3 targets (from 4)
buff combat axe light cleave to 3, keep heavy overhead at 1.5
buff achlys combat axe H1 cleave to 8, improve cleave dmg distribution
rework achlys combat axe H1 into chaining into a special light sweeping atk (left to right) with 4.5 cleave or smth
buff tac axe light & heavy sweeps' cleave & cleave dmg distribution
buff tac axe heavy strikedown dmg vs carapace & unyielding

[umbral scaffold]

Though admittedly, I'm a big fan of horde light and strike heavy, like the executioner sword and DS4

[winter grove]

I feel like Taxes are more... Engaging? If you get what I mean

[umbral scaffold]

First recorded person in history to find taxes engaging

Wait, which taxes

[thorn lark]

i use mk7 mostly and mk2 sometimes

[umbral scaffold]

Or are we talking taxes

Speaking of

[winter grove]

I use mk4 personally

[umbral scaffold]

Did you know the mk7 has a slightly higher light damage than mk4?

[winter grove]

WS makes light spam a god damn lawn mower

[umbral scaffold]

Which itself is only on L1 and L3

[heavy rover]

let them eat cake?

[umbral scaffold]

As a result the mk7 theoretically had better light spam

[winter grove]

Theoretically

[thorn lark]

what i don't understand is the following: I used knives for months (and god rolled with all the meta blessings)... and as soon as i switched to taxes (bm + shred) i just doubled my melee dmg

[winter grove]

Does it have same or better carapace penetration on lights

[umbral scaffold]

Taxes unironically do good damage and have some good blessings

[tall torrent]

they have ok dmg it's just that they don't hit a lot of enemies

[umbral scaffold]

And get decent base crit

[winter grove]

Yeah that's only problem tbf

[tall torrent]

and they don't have a coherent single target moveset

[thorn lark]

i must kill more horde and still the same number of elites... that's the only explanation

[winter grove]

Weaker cleave

[tall torrent]

there's only "mix light / heavy / PA"

[winter grove]

Mk4

[umbral scaffold]

I think buffing taxe heavies would be nice

[tall torrent]

yea, it's light spam everything

[thorn lark]

a bit below, but you compensate with attack speed.. same for unyielding

[umbral scaffold]

Almost always you benefit more from just spamming

[tall torrent]

heavy spam has lower dps than light spam because the caparace dmg is around the same, per hit

[umbral scaffold]

Your damage nosedives when you decide to heavy

[tall torrent]

they need actually good cleave sweep and heavy overhead dmg

there's no reason an axe just barely smaller than a rashad should have <50% dmg of a rashad overhead

[umbral scaffold]

Thankfully a blessed individual made a light spam mod, but holy shit taxes are as one-note as combat axes

[thorn lark]

it's spam heavies vs spam lights

[umbral scaffold]

Light spam shit, maybe heavy every now and then, special attack the rager

[thorn lark]

unless carapace or unyielding, pa + h1 or taxe7 has very good horde clear (from what exhil found during his test)

[tall torrent]

tac axe is really good at duelling ragers

and falls off immensely the moment there're multiple ragers

cuz no cleave

[thorn lark]

on zealot, you dodge back, throw a knife or two and shoot

[tall torrent]

also hot take, I think dreg ragers can use a hitmass reduction & extra stagger vulnerability if they're to keep the current atk speed for them

[umbral scaffold]

Remember old BM taxe with cleave CDR?

[thorn lark]

yes

[umbral scaffold]

Based

[thorn lark]

now the play is to reach bps

[tall torrent]

dreg ragers are really just so unfun to fight in melee now

[umbral scaffold]

Rager crowds are annoying as shit when done back to back and in idfk 6+ at a time

[thorn lark]

yesterday i soloed 5 ragers and 3 crushers with a taxe... what saved me was mobility kiting and just magdumping the boltgun

not very skilled

[umbral scaffold]

I might be misremembering, but VT2 made them sparse and 4 at a time

[tall torrent]

I think it's a genuine problem when there's this 1 specific build that completely trivializes ragers' existence and basically every other build have to give up smth to fight multiples of them

[winter grove]

But it is coherent isn't it?

[tall torrent]

whether that be ability, blitz or ammo

[umbral scaffold]

Some call that "specialization lmao", but I think the player being decent at everything and skill being the deciding factor is more poggers

[winter grove]

So true

[thorn lark]

i want riposte on taxe

or precog

[tall torrent]

mk13g chainsword was also light spam everything before the moveset change, did that feel coherent to u

[winter grove]

It's coherent in mk4 case

[tall torrent]

I hate how this is unironically the most effective way to wipe large dreg rager groups
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1260682486304739431/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.07.10_-_15.41.07.02.mp4?ex=6690358f&is=668ee40f&hm=920cd9be424acf917704d74374784489ee52ba9f14261c8e217cabb61b7316f0&

[winter grove]

Mk13g was awkward to use

[umbral scaffold]

I hate smite

[winter grove]

I like smite

[tall torrent]

zero risk, zero engagement, 20 rager in killfeed

[umbral scaffold]

I wish smite a very auric maelstrom with knife psyker in the team day

[wise jackal]

It's not too hard to melee ragers

There vulnerable bit is when they overhead after they end there combo

[umbral scaffold]

The problem is getting away from the other 7

[wise jackal]

Some weapon specials are able to stagger them for a split second too

[tall torrent]

1v1, no

it's when they're in multiples

[wise jackal]

Fair

[shadow aurora]

Which they almost always are

[tall torrent]

and then u get smth like tox bomber gas

that buffs them to 2.5x mass (10 mass)

so literally nothing except ogryn weapons & power swords hit more than 1 at a time

[winter grove]

Sometimes it's awkward to fight in 1v1 too

Considering there's whoel a lot of different shit

[wise jackal]

This wouldn't be a problem if they had at least a slower downtime after they end there combos

[winter grove]

Scab ragers aren't bad last time I fought them

[winter grove]

Dreg ragers are light spamming

[wise jackal]

Which was, I dunno, what they did in there last game. Maybe not make the end combo that slow but still

[tall torrent]

the combo is like, alright

but

having this high combo atk speed in a group

[winter grove]

Ragers in VT2 are even more dangerous than in DT just so yunno

[tall torrent]

means basically nobody except ogryns or kinetic deflection psykers can block them continuously

[winter grove]

Because in VT2 they take of like 1/4(?) hp per hit

[tall torrent]

yea but block hard counters them, no?

and they don't spawn in packs of 6

[winter grove]

Block does true

[wise jackal]

Not really, I can herd them much more easily in vt2, that and I can light spam them to death much better

[winter grove]

Plague monks do

Because it's skaven and fuck you

[white minnow]

the solution be to reduce numbers (and preferably some other changes to the combat system)
at least in the current melee system, they act as anti-melee enemies which is basically the same as their pre-nerf (from when they had undodgeable attacks) so it's whatevs

[winter grove]

But there's often like 1 or 2 or 3 norscan berserkers and that's it so argument works

[tall torrent]

either cut their spawns (preferably) or reduce their mass and make them more vulnerable to stagger

[winter grove]

Make less ragers spawn

Please

Not even scab ragers

[wise jackal]

Zerkers in VT are balanced because you can wait until they slow down or you can let them hard focus on someone to distract them and kill them quickly

[winter grove]

Those are fine somehow

[wise jackal]

Zerks in VT are fun because they reward you for preparing for them

[winter grove]

Or shoot them because most ranged stuff in VT2 oneshots specials and elites

[white minnow]

i wouldn't reduce their mass or make them more easily staggered cuz other enemies already fit that role of being in larger numbers and being more easily staggered

reducing numbers is the only major solution to me

[wise jackal]

Eh, unless your range focused it's not worth it

[tall torrent]

cutting their mass down to 3 or 3.5 from 4 can help a bit, but yea I'd rather they just spawned less

[umbral scaffold]

I remember trying to parry a rager and failing like 4 times because he was targeting someone behind me

[white minnow]

i suppose i would buff bruisers back to ~100 damage to fill in the role of high damage but easily staggered and low hitmass melee enemies

it's a shame they got nerfed

[winter grove]

Bruisers are like groansrs but just beefier

[wise jackal]

I kinda missed the gunner buffs

I hated them first but I got used to them and now they reverted it

[winter grove]

Am I crazy or gunners now crouch while firing

[umbral scaffold]

Haven't seen it tbh

Maybe?

[winter grove]

Specifically scab ones

[thorn lark]

Dregs ragers were fine until the last rework. It was fine to melee them. Now you're going back to shooting them.

[winter grove]

Unless you're ogryn with pickaxe

God damn the pickaxe is broken

[wise jackal]

Also only some weapons truly one shot elites, most can't or are headshot reliant in order to do so

[thorn lark]

I kickback them

[torpid grotto]

I like the anti melee concept for dreg ragers. Currently a bit overtuned, if there was just a little more stagger options for melee it would be perfect

[umbral scaffold]

I was playing the new shotty on psyker today

[tall torrent]

ogryn weapons have enough cleave & stagger to deal with ragers for the most part

[umbral scaffold]

Really fun when not using weapon specialist

[tall torrent]

and 2 of ogryn's abilities hard stagger them

[umbral scaffold]

Because then I shoot and reload, so I don't see the camera bug

[thorn lark]

We all know they buffed ragers to force you to use mauls...

[tall torrent]

honestly, if they're to be full anti-melee, make them more vulnerable to ranged dmg or smth
smth like a 1.1x headshot multiplier on them

[thorn lark]

[tall torrent]

not too crazy

[white minnow]

though the option to use ranged is already implied

slapping an additional ranged damage multiplier is already very on the nose, like we see with mutants and dogs

[winter grove]

Dogs have ranged multipliers???

[white minnow]

i just meant the general case of taking additional damage

[tall torrent]

those are melee weakness and that's 3x

[white minnow]

in the case of dogs it's still melee

yeah i know

i'm talking generally

[tall torrent]

I don't see how a small 1.1x can be horrible in balance

not like a 1.5x

[winter grove]

3.0x

[white minnow]

on the other hand it's so inconsequential and would matter for only some weapons that i wouldn't even implement it

it's like the 0.85x ranged headshot multi that they used to have that only really mattered for brainburst

who cares

[fading yarrow]

Heavy breathing

[tall torrent]

it's consequential for a lot of weapons because that 1.1x would be a separate multiplier on top of the regular +dmg buffs

[winter grove]

Gets spawned in the crusher pack upon joining match

[umbral scaffold]

For BB at least it was relevant for breakpoints

[torpid grotto]

I like the current dreg ragers because it makes bringing a shotgun fun

[tall torrent]

it's like 1 less shot on a bunch of guns

[fading yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/cease-pepo-cease-pepe-cease-crying-screaming-bttv-cease-gif-12089648175646627393

[winter grove]

Just use mg12 exec stance 5head

[white minnow]

yeah i know it'd be a separate multiplier
it'd still be a whatever breakpoint
it'll definitively hit breakpoints for weapons that 11-shot ragers but below that the probability of 1.1x hitting breakpoints seems rather fringe to me

[tall torrent]

no it helps a bunch of the semi auto guns

on infantry las that's like 1 less shot for all of them

[winter grove]

Numbers cat
I am losing faith in bistols are they actually worth using?

[tall torrent]

full auto stuff it's mostly inconsequential

[winter grove]

I use one with WS

[tall torrent]

I didn't play them that much primarily because I'm used to having actually good hipfire on my guns

plasma/laspistol

[thorn lark]

Use them with Deadshot and focus target

Way better experience

[winter grove]

Should I just slap laspistol on WS build?

Instead of revolver

[tall torrent]

boltpistol need some pretty heavy investment to feel good

it's a deadshot gun

[thorn lark]

Like boltgun tbh

[white minnow]

i'd just reduce their numbers instead
because increasing damage multis also affects an individual rager

[winter grove]

Thank you

[tall torrent]

it's not as much investment as boltgun but it's still pretty hefty investment

[winter grove]

I'll stop trying to roll one

I am not having fun with it

[thorn lark]

I feel like your revolver will benefit more from the Crit that the laspistol... Considering cleave and rending

[winter grove]

The sights make me wanna kms

[white minnow]

like, ragers are still going to stay anti-melee/melee pressure units and ranged will stay as the conventional way to deal with them, so there's no need to make ranged EVEN MORE better against them

[tall torrent]

u need smth like precision strikes + determined + deadshot + superiority complex + marksman + focus target + redirect fire to make it feel good

but when it feels good it feels really good

[winter grove]

I still need a hand cannon on my revolver

[thorn lark]

Using crosshair remap helps a ton

[white minnow]

i already don't like the massive multis that mutants and dogs get

[winter grove]

Like my revolver is GOOD

It just need a hand cannon

[thorn lark]

Hand Cannon 3 is super common!

[winter grove]

I still got one slot for blessing

[tall torrent]

maybe cut their pack spawn from 6 down to 4?

so 2 packs is 8

[white minnow]

yeah whatever number feels good to fight and doesn't seem unreasonable

[tall torrent]

8 seems generally reasonable

[thorn lark]

That was my experience

Also focus target with the tg Stam node is goated

You won't ever go down in Stam with it

[tall torrent]

fortunately it doesn't need rending strikes

[pastel yew]

oh dude that's actually pretty big

normally I care exactly 0% about stam usage since dodge and slide is so ridiculous

so I totally forgot that was even something you got back from focus

hipfire with the bolt pistol is already good for most ranges though it is usually just gonna feel like a worse laspistol or a worse... quite a few other weapons

[thorn lark]

On some weapons, like bolt pistol, revolver... It's just free deadshot

Getting back toughness is just icing on the cake

[umbral scaffold]

Broke: focus target stamina
Woke: weapon specialist stamina

[pastel yew]

lil cumbersome to be repeat tagging while aiming about but its cool

weapon specialist does also have the upside of that free crit

and not needing to reload

[umbral scaffold]

Weapon specialist stamina almost feels like it was made for deadshot

You swap, dump your stamina, swap back and oh joy, you can immediately push an enemy

[pastel yew]

reaching across the vet skill tree is still rough though

there are so many nodes

[thorn lark]

I don't mind ws Stam. But when I am using weapon specialist I tend no to take Deadshot (that was until in tried with the the db shotgun but you don't really need that much Stam tbh)

[umbral scaffold]

Since I use it with revolver, it's great to get more crits in a row with the fire rate

Ez magdump

For one shot they definitely overlap

[thorn lark]

It's nice having access to two sources of Crits tho

[marble mantle]

WS my beloved

FT is dead to me

WS is my true love

[pastel yew]

honestly I will be surprised if weapon specialist doesn't catch a nerf though

[umbral scaffold]

I wouldn't be particularly opposed to it

[marble mantle]

If they do I will

[pastel yew]

I think my issue with weapon specialist is the zarona.. and sorta visa versa

[umbral scaffold]

Yep

[pastel yew]

either are fine in a vacuum to me but the way they combine is ridiculous

[umbral scaffold]

Ez reload of tactical nuke

[marble mantle]

Ppl keep saying that 😭 nerf the gun not the ability lmfao

[pastel yew]

literally

but the gun is also fine for the most part

I'm not really in the revolver = op camp

it's just real strong

[umbral scaffold]

I remember when nobody wanted to play the revolver in the past

[pastel yew]

might be a case that the free reload has to go

[umbral scaffold]

Me included

[pastel yew]

but everything else is fine

[marble mantle]

@tall torrent had a pretty good suggestion to change the ability though for it to like only affect zarona

[pastel yew]

what was that?

[marble mantle]

Not that I knew what they meant but I trust em

[marble mantle]

Fuck if I know

[pastel yew]

lmao

[marble mantle]

Numbers are for nerds

I keep the ‘eretics in line

[pastel yew]

I feel like a lot of weapon specialist could be collapsed in on itself too, it has way too many sub nodes

only in vet do you get this mess

I also can't post images

joy

[marble mantle]

Shrimple as

I don’t really take any of them unless the mag is super small

Or I need spare stam

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean the vet tree as a whole has a problem with just splitting off random things that would be fine in the ability itself

[marble mantle]

WS is good enough without any modifiers

[marble mantle]

I agree w that

[pastel yew]

true, I only take the reload one

[marble mantle]

Vet has so much good for only few skill points

Hell no

But banana bread at work? Hell yeah

When they giving us banana bread as rations

[pastel yew]

finally some good fucking food

maybe one day the vet skill tree will be complete

iteration 4 is the one

[marble mantle]

I mean I’m cool with it as it is but it could def use some precise hands

[civic knot]

Why isnt falter way better than hammerblow for Agni mace?

its constantly procced

[pastel yew]

the highs and lows of the vet tree are pretty extreme, really only one aura that does anything

[marble mantle]

Which one?

[pastel yew]

I don't really know what's going on but I think hammer blow massively ups your damage with another blessing

[marble mantle]

I mean close and kill and surv are both bangers

I never use fire team tho

[pastel yew]

survivalist even after its nerf

close and kill is like, a token benefit

5% move speed is something you literally get on one of the sub runes

and close and kill literally does nothing

[marble mantle]

Fair point

[pastel yew]

but I guess they saw the data and were like "huh 95% of our players take survivalist"

[tall torrent]

2/5 of the sub nodes aren’t good, and the keystone itself has too many functions baked in

[civic knot]

skullcrusher. what i dont get is that there seems to be 0 difference in stagger amount

[tall torrent]

This is false tho

[pastel yew]

20% reload speed on activating weapon specialist.... << you get this after the node that makes it so you never really have to reload

[civic knot]

@tall torrent is hammerblow really that much better than falter for skullcrusher Agni mace?

[tall torrent]

5% move speed does make a difference, and C&K has the best pathing in vet’s tree

[civic knot]

Cause i cant see a difference when attaacking ragers

[tall torrent]

Idk, I don’t even use agni mace

If ur building for ragers just take lightning reflexes

[marble mantle]

That being said, it having the best pathing isn’t an inherent benefit to the aura, it’s a benefit to the positioning

[pastel yew]

oh correct I got the names mixed up

[civic knot]

then why do i hear all this about hammerblow being superior

[pastel yew]

the 5% damage node

does nothing

[civic knot]

not rly.

[pastel yew]

the 5% speed node, is the one I think is minor

[hearty panther]

yall mega undervalue movespeed

[civic knot]

If im not building for ragers, do i even want maniac dmg on it? like... it doesnt give any breakpoints besides on mutants and dreg ragers (which i mostly shoot, both of them, with DB shottie)

[pastel yew]

just take a weapon with mobility

[tall torrent]

Survivalist is still the best aura in the game but it has the worst pathing in vet tree

[marble mantle]

“Y’all” = one person

[pastel yew]

given its a 5% move speed boost at best you make 1 extra meter of space in 20m of running

[tall torrent]

And most builds don’t need survivalist

[terse idol]

I mean that is yall

[pastel yew]

the main benefity is just the good pathing, the only one with a strong effect is surv

[terse idol]

Everybody does undervalue the 5%

[tall torrent]

There’re only 2 non-veteran builds that require ammo feed to do well

[marble mantle]

Survivalist I feel like gets it’s best benefit in no ammo drops

[terse idol]

Because it doesn't seem like it's much at all

[tall torrent]

Veteran himself only has like
5 guns? Maybe 7 top?

[pastel yew]

its also base move speed boost, so additional move speed boosts make this bonus less and less relevant

[tall torrent]

Where survivalist is preferred

[terse idol]

It's relevant when you're moving away from hordes

It's that issue of like

Invisible value

[pastel yew]

maybe if you have a really low mobility or bad defense melee

[terse idol]

Survivalist you can see your value, fire team is uh... 5% is not alot

[civic knot]

@tall torrent If im not building for ragers with Lightning reflexes, do i even want maniac dmg on it? Like... It doesnt give any breakpoints besides on mutants and dreg ragers (which i mostly oneshot, both of them, with DB shottie)

[tall torrent]

It’s x(1+5%) sprint / walk / crouch move speed

[marble mantle]

Everyone talking rn but Bradley uses close and kill

So why is that everybody

That’s a 3/4 majority brosef

[hearty panther]

and its an aura so, there's the team benefit

[civic knot]

Someone told me u think maniac is mandatory on shock mauls

[tall torrent]

Scab melee mael is the only game type where survivalist significantly outperforms every other aura

In every other mode u don’t need survivalist on most builds

[hearty panther]

but 5% move speed is big, that you get 10% total with vet is big

[umbral scaffold]

WHO JUST DISSED MY 5% MOVE SPEED

[marble mantle]

Yeah figured, I never really run it cuz I don’t like where it is

[terse idol]

No as in if you're speaking about everyone, like I'm sure rhe majority of vet players don't like 5% move speed

(Even personally I don't know how effective it is from a gameplay perspective)

[pastel yew]

idk i feel like a lot of players in auric do not care about ammo usage, so not needing to pick up crates feels great

[hearty panther]

as a whole people get hung up on how it "only makes you move faster", but that ignores all the shit you do in a game that involves, yknow, moving places

[tall torrent]

Idk abt agni, but mk3 gets flamer H1 1-hit kill and faster mutant & Dreg rager kill time

[terse idol]

I will say

[marble mantle]

I mean maybe but I’m nit-picky about when people generalize. I know it’s small but it’s one of my pet peeves.

[terse idol]

Ammo pickups are extra important in auric

[pastel yew]

I was playing a game earlier where both another vet and myself were using the accatran mk2 and I picked up 2 ammo boxes across the whole game compared to their like 8 smalls 3 mids

[terse idol]

Why folks share em and junk

[tall torrent]

They buffed ammo spawn by ~25% in the same patch they nerfed survivalist

[umbral scaffold]

Stacked movement on vet is goated

[tall torrent]

Running out of ammo outside of scab melee mael is just bad ammo management/looting skills

[terse idol]

Dats fair

[pastel yew]

they could buff them 3x and they would still be hoovered up by people who do not care about the team

[inland orchid]

Be me, wondering where my ammo went after I keep spraying into hordes

[tall torrent]

Yea, but that’s more of a player problem, not a talent problem

[marble mantle]

Honestly it would be nice for close and kill and fireteam to get a rework. Like, buff the values, or add an additional value or something, idk.

[pastel yew]

sure but I can't affect players outside of myself, only my talent selection

[tall torrent]

Besides if u urself know how to loot properly you shouldn’t be running out of ammo much

[pastel yew]

you work with what you've got

[terse idol]

(I just generalize because i feel like it's true)
If I made a reddit poll about how much value each aura provides we'd likely see movement speed at the lower end

Fire team rework would be nice

[marble mantle]

Ok now I’m gonna generalize. Reddit is a cesspit. The whole thing. You wouldn’t get an accurate answer at point blank range

[tall torrent]

Fire team is fine

[pastel yew]

generally though I will take whatever is most efficient pathing wise though

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

Reddit has horrible takes generally

[rigid pilot]

Fire team is perfectly fine

[umbral scaffold]

I think auras are fine as minor buffs because the last thing I want is for people to be toxic because I brought the "wrong" significant buff

[tall torrent]

Not worth listening to

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean currently it reads "deal 5% extra damage to bosses..."

it will never change your breakpoints

so that's its only effect

[tall torrent]

No, 5% dmg does help

[inland orchid]

No survivalist? Kicked from squad

[terse idol]

I WOULD GO AS FAR AS TO SAY, Reddit makes up a higher portion of the playerbase

[tall torrent]

It does change breakpoints on some builds

[hearty panther]

there's more than a few weapons where i know immediately that i have a fireteam vet

[umbral scaffold]

I thought fire team was 5% damage to everything

[terse idol]

So many bad opinions are circulated on reddit

[tall torrent]

It is

[hearty panther]

like absolutely probably the vast majority of fire team's bonus damage finds itself on the overkill board

[pastel yew]

lets say you have no damage boosts at all and hit a target. they'd need to be left a tiny amount of health for 5% to even make a new break point... now consider all the other damage bonus you have on top which make that slice smaller and smaller

[hearty panther]

but it also absolutely does stuff lol

[pastel yew]

you're never going to hit a new break point, and any damage you deal over their kill point is meaningless

only total number of hits matters

[tall torrent]

Yes, I actually check weapon breakpoints, 5% does change things

[inland orchid]

I humbly disagree due to people that don’t share their opinions being a thing, sure they don’t much “contribute” but they still digest the game same as a guy who’d tell us his complaints on Reddit

[terse idol]

I so think fire team is better for fully automatic weapons
It's 5% on every single shot which in theory yeah

[pastel yew]

in not one of my builds has that actually made a difference

[terse idol]

Adds up

[terse idol]

Yeah but the majority of players do just lurk

[umbral scaffold]

5% is better when you barely miss the breakpoint on the big shit, like plasma gun and headhunters

[civic knot]

@tall torrent I dont wanna overwhelm u here so im just gonna ask one last thing: is hammerblow really that much better than falter?

[tall torrent]

This is a very surface level understanding

[rigid pilot]

5% on many shots is the same as 5% in one big shot

[terse idol]

So if then the reddit playerbase makes up the majority players then...

[pastel yew]

like I can think of one break point where ... if you're using a rashad and for some reason can only take the 10% melee node and not the 5% further down... then you would be able tokill a specific grunt troop in one hit rather than two on your first swing... because after that blessings are charged

[tall torrent]

I don’t bother with either

[terse idol]

[civic knot]

@rigid pilot Hey man since ur here, could you help me out a bit? xD is hammerblow really that much better than falter?

[rigid pilot]

Isn't it

[terse idol]

I'd like to know more

[tall torrent]

Because fire team is 5% all dmg

If ur ranged weapon needs both 5% ranged dmg nodes but doesn’t take survivalist/redirect fire, you benefit from fire team

If ur melee weapon needs redirect fire to reach a breakpoint but you’re taking weapon specialist, fire team likely changes that

[rigid pilot]

You can blingbangbangborn some ragers

[pastel yew]

good song

[civic knot]

ye but i havent noticed a difference between stagger amount of falter and hammerblow

[tall torrent]

There are ranged weapons where both 5% ranged dmg nodes are needed

[civic knot]

but im trying to figure our if it really does matter at all

[pastel yew]

which?

[tall torrent]

Plasma is one of them

[rigid pilot]

You test in game or in psyk?

[tall torrent]

Boltpistol breakpoints are pretty tight too

[civic knot]

psyk

[pastel yew]

for what breakpoint? though I do take elite damage on my plasma to hit the ones I need

[tall torrent]

Boltgun has pinning fire variation

[rigid pilot]

You need to turn on AI of enemies

[civic knot]

ye

I turned off invisibility

[rigid pilot]

Rager attacking has more stagger resist

Also falter is on weakspots?

[tall torrent]

Plasma needs 78%+ dmg & SP, precision strikes & superiority, both 5% dmg nodes and redirect fire to meet optimal breakpoints

[rigid pilot]

Might be harder to get when fighting 5 ragers

[inland orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/mashle-magic-and-muscles-mash-dance-mashle-magic-and-muscles-mash-dance-gif-1446830050141654391

[tall torrent]

They quite literally nerfed plasma this newest hotfix

[marble mantle]

On what

[pastel yew]

precision strikes is in almost every vet build I run

[inland orchid]

no matter the nerfs I will overcome these faults and still enjoy making soccer ball sized holes in heretics

[pastel yew]

not sure why you wouldnt take it

[tall torrent]

The nerf is very big

[pastel yew]

same with superiority honestly

[tall torrent]

I’m just telling u what it needs for breakpoints

On a build that doesn’t take the top 5% ranged dmg node, fire team is what you’ll need

[marble mantle]

Was it really? It still feels pretty crazy strong

[pastel yew]

I mean I don't take 5% from fire team and am already hitting the one shot breakpoint with +10% elite damage on the weapon itself

[inland orchid]

eh we’ve been through this before, remember recon lasguns?

[pastel yew]

I guess that lets you take something else in its stead but I don't know what other bonus I'd even want

[tall torrent]

It basically nukes weapon specialist plasma

Plasma is almost exclusively a focus target gun now

[marble mantle]

Ohhhhh gotcha well I haven’t used it on WS

[inland orchid]

Oh that’s why I haven’t noticed a difference, I’m in the same boat as Michael

[marble mantle]

I mostly run shotguns

[rigid pilot]

Wait huh where when

[inland orchid]

Never used WS with plasma, I rocked the bolter pistol with it once tho

[marble mantle]

Helbore sometimes, bolt weapons others

Speaking of which, what do I want on bolter?

[last parcel]

boltbore

[tall torrent]

Previously WS plasma could use longshot to get the 1 tap breakpoints

Now with the close range definition 8m -> 12.5m, longshot activates at 12.5m+ which makes it far less consistent for breakpoints

This means that unless ur running some weird combo like maniac (only changes 1 breakpoint normally) + unarmored, you don’t get to consistently 1 tap Dreg gunners & flamers now

[marble mantle]

I’ve actually fallen in love with the slug and wideshot combat shotguns

Got pretty great ones too

[tall torrent]

You need smth like 14m+ for flamer 1 shot with longshot WS plasma

[pastel yew]

oh that blows I hadn't considered that

plasmagun could catch a far far harder nerf though

[rigid pilot]

Agile engagement

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s a huge nerf for WS plasma

[rigid pilot]

I relied on that while playing WS plasma

[tall torrent]

AE for maniac only enables flamer 1 bodyshot

[inland orchid]

I like flechette on it so if the enemy survives at low hp the bleed finishes them off compared to using another shot of bolter

[rigid pilot]

Should allow for gunner no?

[pastel yew]

we can pray the plasma in general actually gets taken out back soon™️

I don't want it to be trash but holy does it need adjusted

I just quit if there are two in my game

[tall torrent]

If you don’t take flak, inconsistent

[rigid pilot]

Gunner HS at least

Dreg

[tall torrent]

And WS plasma still needs longshot to be active to kill Dreg gunner

[last parcel]

just queue with an elite damage aura psyker

[rigid pilot]

Maybe because I critted as well

I only played a few rounds of WP plasma

[pastel yew]

trueeeeeeeeee, at least vet doesn't have the worst aura

[tall torrent]

Idk abt u but I don’t like having my breakpoints enabled only when I kill smth in melee then swap to ranged weapon

[pastel yew]

even though 5% crit is everything 5% damage wishes it could be

[marble mantle]

Once I get perfect bolter and bistol I think I’m gonna start saving up. I’ll have pretty much all the weps I care abt I think

[pastel yew]

horde for the itemization update... to the moon

[rigid pilot]

My idea is if you can't get the AE buff then the situation doesnt demand you one shot them

[marble mantle]

Also kinda surprised we don’t have like a compound bow or like a mechanical crossbow or somethin, would be neat

[pastel yew]

my completionist itch to collect all of the blessing is gonna pay off big when the update comes out and every one of em is converted into xp B)

[tall torrent]

The problem is that veteran is a consistent breakpoint class, unlike psyker & zealot

And a plasma that doesn’t get to 1 shot stuff consistently kinda blows

[pastel yew]

the flip side is that a plasma that does one shot stuff is incredibly broken

1 to 2 shots is such a bad place to be balancing around because any change is huge

[tall torrent]

Yea it can use a big cleave nerf on uncharged shots

Prob drop it to 6 cleave on uncharged

[pastel yew]

voidstrike staff is like.. pretty ideal as it shows about where I think the plasma gun should be in strength

even though that staff is also degen strong

at least I don't feel like quitting if I have them in my game

[tall torrent]

My other hot take is that plasma should get a new blessing

[pastel yew]

what would it do

[tall torrent]

Every 1% heat gives ur charged shot +0.5/1/1.5/2% ranged dmg

[pastel yew]

oh that'd be kinda cool

[tall torrent]

At 70% heat that’s +140% ranged dmg for charged shots

Become death

[pastel yew]

give the charged shot an actual reason to exist

[tall torrent]

Risk vs reward

I dream of a day when plasma can 1~2 tap monsters

[pastel yew]

would be fitting

[tall torrent]

Also charged shots can use an ammo cost reduction tbh

[pastel yew]

oh yeah for sure

[last parcel]

uncharged shots should do friendly fire

[tall torrent]

They already slow u down in dps a lot

[pastel yew]

part of what makes the plasma so ridiculous is that you never run out of ammo

also heat is strong

means you can constantly partial reload since you never have to ACTUALLY reload the plasma in a fight

[tall torrent]

U can run out it’s just that plasma usually takes survivalist

And any competent plasma vet melees more than he shoots

So

[pastel yew]

point and click on every head you see

I do wish that ammo counts were accurate though

[rigid pilot]

It's mainly a quirk of WS plasma

[pastel yew]

it's such a pet peeve when a gun uses min 3 shots

just display how many actual shots I have!

[rigid pilot]

So to me I'm fine with it

[pastel yew]

las weapons firing between like 1-4 ammo depending on which it is

[tall torrent]

Just think of it as a 40r mag gun

[rigid pilot]

Since you always have FT plasma to brrrt

[tall torrent]

1~9

[pastel yew]

oh for the hellbores

wouldn't know, don't use em

why would you when the plasma gun exists

I guess their stabs pretty good

[tall torrent]

Recon mk2 and mk6d use 1/shot
MG4 and recon mk7a use 2/shot
MG1a and MG12 use 3/shot
HB1 is 3/shot, 6/charged
HB2 is 2/shot, 4/charged
HB3 is 4/shot, 9/charged

[pastel yew]

hellbore 3 is even less relevant though given its melee is trash

so it doesn't even have that one saving grace the others do

they're just krieg rp tier

not sure what state the recons were in before they were buffed as I hadnt tried them

but the mk2 is currently eating so fucking good

ludicrous weapon

[tall torrent]

I’m just waiting for longlas

[pastel yew]

can... sorta get there with the weapon customization mod

but the scopes are jank and not very nice

I doubt we'd get one though

[tall torrent]

Yea I’m not looking through test tube 9000

[pastel yew]

mostly because the environments we fight in are so tight usually

[tall torrent]

We’re getting one

[pastel yew]

real?

confirmed or copium

[tall torrent]

Their newest short story has a marksman specialist reject in the newest mission with a longlas rifle

[pastel yew]

ooh okay

[tall torrent]

If that’s not confirmation enough idk what is

[pastel yew]

I mean its still probably some copium but I do buy it too

[tall torrent]

Also longlas’s weapon insignia thing has been datamined like a year ago

[short vapor]

That's just Gets Hot! but better

[tall torrent]

But only for charged shot

[pastel yew]

the melta gun was datamined too and that's not here

alas

[tall torrent]

[short vapor]

That was at launch and was never confirmed to be a roadmap of weapons.

[pastel yew]

honestly I'd be fine with the plasma gun just getting a damage boost to make it's one shot break points less silly, then just massively reduce its fire rate and increase that total heat per shot for uncharged shots

[short vapor]

Was just a leak due to players being able to see all insignias ingame

[tall torrent]

Yea but they brought it up again recently so it’s prob coming at some point

[pastel yew]

let it be the ridiculous hyper cannon that it should be, but have it limited by how much it can put down range

[tall torrent]

Maybe 3 years from now

[short vapor]

Have they?

[tall torrent]

The newest short story they released

Naibert, reject marksman, uses longlas

[radiant chasm]

Just the regular old ~~ plasma gun ~~ mk12

[short vapor]

mm yes the side-plot lore will give us new weapons surely

[radiant chasm]

[old quail]

the only thing i take as remotely indicative of fatshark's plan is whatever gets datamined in the present (instead of the stuff from around launch)

and even then ur workin with ideas there not really specifics

[tall torrent]

Eventually

[pastel yew]

thats fair

[old quail]

all the new weaps were datamined to varying degrees

[rigid pilot]

Anything is possible if players keep buying Aquilas

[pastel yew]

not like we're going to see any updates for a while

[short vapor]

Based entirely on the radium weapons teaser just being about the Plasma Gun I'm highly doubtful.

[pastel yew]

those pesky workers are enjoying their time off!!

instead of working in the content mines

[rigid pilot]

At least they haven't reached the payday3 stage where the CEO was begging people to buy DLC

[pastel yew]

... say sike right now...

[marble mantle]

What a disappointment of a game

[pastel yew]

honestly payday 3 feels like a better game, but it has no soul

[marble mantle]

I loved payday 2

[pastel yew]

I can't put my finger on why I do not vibe with it, even though on the face of it... it's just a straight improvement

[tall torrent]

Yea that one is a bit weird

But they directly name dropped longlas so

[old quail]

the portents foretell new psyker talents

[pastel yew]

whats the lore there?

I heard faint mentionings of that

but don't really follow the games info releases

(as usually they're not really anything)

[tall torrent]

They released a vox transmission teaser for the new map

[radiant chasm]

How was pd3 an upgrade

[tall torrent]

Where rejects mention a weapon that makes them sick but super powerful

[fleet thicket]

Yeah

[tall torrent]

It sounded like a rad gun

[fleet thicket]

They referenced long las which means

[pastel yew]

graphically, mechanically, scale, actual combat

[tall torrent]

But FS insisted it’s just the plasma gun we have rn

[fleet thicket]

Rattling

Is comingv

[radiant chasm]

Everything i’ve seen says it’s worse in most compartments

[fleet thicket]

Say hello to the new vet class

[tall torrent]

However, they directly name dropped longlas in that short story

[tall torrent]

No

[fleet thicket]

I mean how would long las even work honestly helbore on steroids ?

[pastel yew]

I can already see the copium... "rad weapons!! they're coming!! secrets of the mechanicus and all that.. so if rad weapons.. and mechanicus... NEW CLASS BOYS WE'RE GETTING THE SKITARRIIIIII!!"

reddit must have blown up

[radiant chasm]

It was totally the shit on the map that was spewing radiation

[pastel yew]

[radiant chasm]

Reddit blows up every day

[pastel yew]

focus on weakspot and anti armor I guess

lower firerate

[tall torrent]

Scoped, variable zoom (?), very high dmg per shot, no charge-up, low firerate, low ammo pool, high finesse scaling

[pastel yew]

there aren't actually all that many ranged weapons that deal with carapace

[marble mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-iasip-charlie-conspiracy-gif-11562330

Reddit

[pastel yew]

it's part of why the revolver is so overrepresented, it's the only option all human classes get

[tall torrent]

Longlas wouldn’t have a charge fire mode it’ll just always be in maximum output

[radiant chasm]

Okay so the thing is and it’s stupid is that the mechanicus shit on the map is spewing radiation cause it’s derelict and in bad condition

And they are taking pills for that

And comparing the tech of the area with the plasma gun

It’s absolutely spelled out terribly and was basically made to be misinterpreted

[tall torrent]

Also longlas is way more stylish than Helbore

Even if you’re a Krieg fan

[radiant chasm]

Wrong

[tall torrent]

It just looks cooler I’m sorry

[radiant chasm]

Im sorry but wrong, charge based snipers have been cool as hell since teamfort classic and even before

[pastel yew]

if we're going cool factor a proper hot shot has em both beat

[radiant chasm]

Hotshot would just be fancy recon

Helbore i can respect

[fleet thicket]

@pastel yew vet got a ton though

[rigid pilot]

"if you call yourself a heister you can't say I'll be back in 2 years, we need you here now playing (and buying) the (DLC)

[tall torrent]

If only the charge based sniper had smth like an optic sight

[pastel yew]

they got good blessing for em for sure, though not many that hyper specialise I guess

[fleet thicket]

Probably with non existence dodge range xD

[pastel yew]

god that is gross...

[radiant chasm]

Vet doesn’t need anti armor guns anyways just go double rending xd

[tall torrent]

Hotshot would be Lasgun with Armor penetrating power

[pastel yew]

zealot does though

the changes to fury are so lame

[radiant chasm]

Turn every gun into anti armor

[radiant chasm]

Used to

Sad but it was needed

Not really lame

[tall torrent]

It’s kinda buffed in a weird way

[marble mantle]

We want you to play our unfinished game and pay extra money for less content than ever before

[fleet thicket]

Btw guys what options vet got for bosses other bolter now ?

[tall torrent]

Because 100% rending actually helps some weapons more than what it did before

[pastel yew]

I don't really think it was needed tbf, the only weapon it actually boosted beyond revolver strength was the mk2 laspistol.

[pastel yew]

yeah?

[fleet thicket]

I think shotguns is something else I can think of

[tall torrent]

Have u considered melee

[swift ingot]

What are some good blessing combos for bolt pistol?

[pastel yew]

not really for its anti armor ranged purposes tho

[radiant chasm]

Every zealot knows that it was completely game breaking

[marble mantle]

How is it lame

[radiant chasm]

Lmao what

[fleet thicket]

Ehhh I use shock maul with this build 😦

[radiant chasm]

Flamer was killing 33 crushers an fotf

[pastel yew]

because now if you don't take an anti armor melee your ranged options are incredibly limited

[tall torrent]

Ranged anti-armor option is kind of cringe with a melee orientated class

[marble mantle]

Exe stance only buffs range, fotf was for melee

That’s the point

[pastel yew]

yeah because famously the ranged oriented classes are really bad in melee

[radiant chasm]

And imo if you don’t take anti armor x your other slot is always gonna be limited

[marble mantle]

At least fury allows you to still hold your range weapon lol

[pastel yew]

classes can have their main theme but having variety helps

[fleet thicket]

But yeah shotguns guys is considered good against bosses iyo?

[radiant chasm]

Kinda sucks for hsword and dclaw but bolter did get buffed

[pastel yew]

oh I meant fury of the faithful, the dash not the keystone

[radiant chasm]

You still have mk3 HH and revolver

[marble mantle]

I mean I like them against bosses yeah

[fleet thicket]

Don't forger agri hh!

[pastel yew]

not terrible just there are always better options

[marble mantle]

Yeah me too.

[pastel yew]

though thats shotguns in a nutshell

[fleet thicket]

What about kantrael shotguns flame?

[pastel yew]

yeah it's aight

[radiant chasm]

Im not gonna use mk9 Hh when mk3 and mk7 exist

1 or 3

[pastel yew]

as good as any weapon that applies flame stacks

its slow but consistent

[fleet thicket]

Don't underestimate anything with name agripinaa

[radiant chasm]

None of this two round burst shit if i wanted that i’d play my gorgonium ogryn

[marble mantle]

Slug shot against bosses makes me happy, and DB against bosses is downright pretty good. Both require a decent build to support that tho

[radiant chasm]

It’s not underestimate i just don’t like agri HH

[marble mantle]

Slugshot my beloved

[radiant chasm]

Agri brauto on the other hand

My beloved

[fleet thicket]

Yeah but even number > od number

[tall torrent]

DB has pretty bad boss dmg

[pastel yew]

god I wish the shotgun fired only slugs...

they're so satisfying

[marble mantle]

Rly? I’ve been able to make it not terrible

[fleet thicket]

I see okay

[marble mantle]

Maybe just lucky

[radiant chasm]

2 free headhunter stacks> 1

[pastel yew]

fun fact, the slug is also 100% hipfire accurate for some reason

which makes it pretty dope for running around

[tall torrent]

U get a decent dmg number in 1 braced shot, then the dps falls off vs everything else

[marble mantle]

Same lol it’s my most used gun rn on my riot cop

[marble mantle]

Ahhh that’s probably why

[pastel yew]

I mean if you look at the scoreboard you can consistently see the double barrel performing way worse over time than other weapons

its got that satisfaction quality to it

but thats about it

[tall torrent]

Not really

[pastel yew]

no?

[tall torrent]

It’s a good gun

[fleet thicket]

I wonder if kantrael shotgun needs a buff path told me it's kind of bad cuz of lack of cleave

[pastel yew]

there are lots of good guns that are way worse over time, I love the bolt pistol, I think that's a good gun (outside of the aim bugs)

[marble mantle]

I haven’t used Kantrael at all lol

[pastel yew]

but it will still underperform compared to a lot of good weapons

[tall torrent]

Well going from infinite cleave to 4.5 is a big change yea

[marble mantle]

Does not fit the riot cop

[tall torrent]

I can’t see how manstopper WS double barrel is smth that “falls off”

[fleet thicket]

Yeah I think best thing it's good at right now is killing bulwarks xD

[pastel yew]

slow

look at the stats

[tall torrent]

What’s slow about it

[radiant chasm]

It falls off literally

Dbarrel has kanty level fall off

[tall torrent]

It’s worse than Kantrael falloff

But like

[pastel yew]

I would assume the ammo situation, I haven't used it in auric so I can't comment, all I can say is every time I see someone using it they're usually performing far worse in terms of offensive output

[tall torrent]

The moment u pick this thing in ur build

[fleet thicket]

Other than myself I have not seen any kantrael or lawbringer shotgunners

[tall torrent]

You’ve already accepted that you’re gonna meme

[radiant chasm]

And double barrel has more fall off than firing one barrel

[fleet thicket]

Since forever

[marble mantle]

I use lawbringer for funsies

[pastel yew]

I used the kantrael a fair bit on zealot, the lawbringer just seemed kinda shit though

[marble mantle]

It’s fuckin sweet for horde clear lol

[fleet thicket]

Me too it got a nice spread for bull bore

[pastel yew]

mostly a really uninteresting special

[marble mantle]

Manstopper and scattershot

[marble mantle]

Great for mowing the lawn of heretics

[pastel yew]

yeah that's fair, I do think I have a pretty heavy bias against ranged weapons that deal with hordes though

in my head that's a melee's job

[marble mantle]

That’s fair

[pastel yew]

your ranged weapon is for point and click special deletion but thats more a me issue

[marble mantle]

I mean the primary still does that

[tall torrent]

DB requires u to play melee vet very aggressively, basically