veteran-class

[tall torrent]

Even with a nerfed version of tac awareness

[winter grove]

Remind me what does tac awareness do? 6 seconds CDR per special kill?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[somber axle]

Are there people who don't touch Low Profile with Infiltrate?

[winter grove]

Oh that would be funny

[somber axle]

Are they aware of what it does?

[tall torrent]

Some people don’t take it because low profile doesn’t do that much in 1~2 man situations

[winter grove]

I took TDR because it seems more useful

50% TDR is crazy

[somber axle]

Ok but it's a 4 player squad game. Unless you run solo and aim to be beyond coherency at all times or you run exclusively solo no bots runs it always has value

[tall torrent]

Because then ur just dumping aggro on the other guy
Or if ur solo/last man standing it just does nothing

And 50% TDR hits some high defense BPs

[winter grove]

4 player squad game with moderate chance of 2 out of 4 people being dead tbf

If we're talking quickplay wise

[somber axle]

2-3 people being dead and forcing me to solo clutch is rare

Like it happens but it's not a common thing

[somber axle]

That's a very powerful tool though. There's a reason why every MMORPG out there runs the Tank, Healer, DPS trifecta. Freeing up others to focus on damage is powerful

If you just dump aggro and hide it is worthless

[tall torrent]

DT is not an MMORPG and I only explained why some people don’t take it

Reduced threat also doesn’t work for enemies u hit

It’s not as strong for groups of enemies that u can’t kill instantly

It is very strong if u just dive to kill specials and ranged elites

[frank ether]

the role trinity is partially what killed mmorpgs

wow came up with it

it sucked donkey ass

every other mmo tried to copy it

''sorry we only need this specific class with this specific setup for this raid, you're getting booted''

schizo level game design

anyway

I wanted to note that I'm a hypocrite who plays mmos regardless

I play guild wars 2 specifically

[tall torrent]

I have a feeling

I’m gonna check out DT update

Finish my guide (up to this coming patch)

Play a few games here and there

Then go back to DRG season pass grind

Unless they somehow release crafting overhaul this update

Then it’s prob 50:50 between DT & DRG

[frank ether]

hows the new DRG season

[tall torrent]

It’s good

Much better than s4

[frank ether]

last I heard they were finally adressing some of the more annoying stuff

[somber axle]

It's not and my intent was never to call it one, but to point at it as an example that an entire genre has defined combat around shifting threat to one target so another can strike unimpeded

[frank ether]

I should return to funny dwarf game

[tall torrent]

They made it so u can switch between seasons to experience past content

And there’re new weapon overclocks (gunner’s are really strong, scout’s seem rly meh)

[somber axle]

10 seconds of not being focused means you can focus on wiping out the line of gunners and Reapers across the room ASAP instead of needing to dance with the poxwalkers and ragers

[tall torrent]

There’s haz5+ now (not the greatest but it’s ok)

[winged pecan]

guys should i keep glory hunter or shattering impact

and unyielding or carapace here?

[tall torrent]

That’s more of a coordination thing which isn’t present in QP as much as stack, I get what ur saying but some people just prefer having the simplicity/reliability of +50% TDR

[tall torrent]

Reload to +elite dmg, shattering to gets hot

Good roll

[winged pecan]

elite damage instead of flak or carapace?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[somber axle]

It does and the keyword is -90% threat generation. If you hit a target no one else is hitting, you receive all the threat for that target because no one else has engaged it. Even if you generate 90% less threat than the rest of the team, you can't have 90% reduce your threat below the 0 that everyone else is generating toward that target. But if you and another player are both attacking a Plague Ogryn you would probably find it difficult to rip aggro off that other player

[winged pecan]

ig shattering doesnt matter much cuz plasma gun already go through armor

[tall torrent]

Carapace is low value, flak would be great 2nd options but elite is top priority

[winged pecan]

ic ill try that thnx

[tall torrent]

No it’s because shattering doesn’t change breakpoints whatsoever since u kill most enemies in 1 or 2 shots

[somber axle]

Wdym I love the role trinity. I main healer and enjoy the gameplay of dodging mechanics while keeping people alive and trying to fix mistakes others make

[winged pecan]

also got these

[somber axle]

It didn't kill the MMORPG genre

It made it popular

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t, the moment u hit an enemy he can re-establish aggro on u (no longer threat reduced)

[winged pecan]

is blaze away better ?

or volatile

[somber axle]

MMORPGs basically didn't matter to the market until WoW exploded

[winged pecan]

in ur oppinion

[tall torrent]

It’s alr, Gloryhunter better imo

[winged pecan]

WoW gona explode soon with

the shitstorm blizzard going through

xd

[tall torrent]

Not relevant

[winged pecan]

fair, ig it does increase non charged speed as well?

not like it rly matter

[somber axle]

He can but the trick is that you have both a threat reset and lower threat generation. So if you and another player are attacking a Plague Ogryn and doing similar damage you will not rip aggro from the other player

[tall torrent]

Ur not supposed to use charged shots rn

[frank ether]

I main a warrior in GW2 and for majority of the games lifespan the class role in PvE could be summed up as banner slave because GW2 was trying to copy wow raid system where each class has like a specific niche. I kinda quit the game and came back after they gutted that entire system.

[somber axle]

And that frees you up to do funny things like Rev a heavy chainaxe into the Plogryn face

[winged pecan]

ye so ive read

9 ammo cost is meh

thnx

[frank ether]

the tab target and role trinity has been the standard like two+ decades ago and the industry has not moved forward an inch since

[somber axle]

Idk about GW2 because I tried to get into it and enjoyed the game but none of my friends did so after like maybe 6 hours of gaming there I dropped the game. I don't play MMOs to play solo and meeting/making new friends in a community I'm unfamiliar with and new to isn't my thing as a sneaky cat

Guild Wars 1 was fun though

I really enjoyed the PvP

[winged pecan]

im assuming the 10% elite helps with 1 shot on gunner?

[tall torrent]

For that case specifically, maybe it does something (but it’s still a huge tax to run a weapon that doesn’t scale that well with melee vet)

[tall torrent]

Yes

And still maintains crusher 3 headshot

[frank ether]

I played many MMOs

I was into tanking in ESO

then one day my patience snapped over bad DPS players

[somber axle]

It's not even just that specific scenario. Any weapon you want to run vs a boss you can now strike unimpeded. Want to get at the Burgle back but you have aggro? Infiltrate, Low Profile and go to town while the Burgle is busy chasing the Psyker

[winged pecan]

mmm ic ima try this, tbh ive been liking unyielding alot as well

[somber axle]

The power of dropping aggro and lowering threat is insane for making plays in chaotic situations

[winged pecan]

since bulwarks are so dam beefy rn

[frank ether]

I don't think MMO genre is popular

Its the same decade old games

some korean pay2win life replacements in the asian market

[tall torrent]

Low profile is mainly relevant for special sniping, less so for bosses

[frank ether]

there are no new MMOs and there probably won't be one that doesn't fail in the following decade

its a dead genre

it failed to evolve

[somber axle]

WoW had like what 14 million players at peak during Wrath? That was years ago before computers were in almost every household in the US and video gaming was still on the rise

No other MMO can ever touch that number

Darktide wishes it could hit half a million

[frank ether]

Wrath of the lich king was in two thousand fucking eight

[somber axle]

WoW was so popular and successful that every game for the next few years tried to market itself as "the WoW killer" and died trying to copy them

[frank ether]

was

you're saying it yourself

[somber axle]

Rift marketed itself as a WoW killer and it is now a ghost

TERA marketed as a WoW killer and now no one knows it exists

[frank ether]

See now this is the part of our convo where you'll repeat my points

and come to the conclusion

that I was right all along

[somber axle]

No?

Dude I went to FF14 Fanfest

[frank ether]

everyone tried to copy wow

genre died

[somber axle]

MMORPGs are not as big as they once were but they are still a very big genre

[winged pecan]

FF14 is something i always wanted to get into

but tab targeting i cannot stand

:v

[somber axle]

If you think multiple millions of players isn't a big enough number to define as popular

[frank ether]

now you have wow and its two clones all 3 of which are decade old games with an old captive audience keeping them alive

[somber axle]

Do you look at any other game/genre from that same lens?

[winged pecan]

is ff14 rly a wow clone?

[frank ether]

where are these multiple millions of players lmao

stop living in the past please

I beg of you

[somber axle]

I really love it and would recommend it but I am not joking when I say ARR is a slog and takes an effort to push through before it gets good LOL

[winged pecan]

ye maybe one day ill try it for the 5th time

[somber axle]

Do you really think between all the big names they don't have multiple millions?

[winged pecan]

the early grind was

bit too much for me

[frank ether]

active players? hell no lmao

[somber axle]

WoW is probably still in the 2-4 million range. FF14 is probably hovering around 2 million. GW2 I have no idea

[winged pecan]

also we can argue that pc gaming is dying to mobile gaming, theres still a pretty big player base left for mmo

idk if any1 played Tera

[somber axle]

If you check in on the Boomers in Runescape you can probably find another couple million

[winged pecan]

that was my favorite mmo ever

[frank ether]

you're tripping if you're unironically telling me final fucking fantasy is outperforming counter strike man

these games require monthly subs and time commitment

[winged pecan]

i might not have read the entire conversation

[frank ether]

that wow being what it was in 2008 was already wild

[winged pecan]

but i dont think its suppose to outperform CS

[frank ether]

probably is your keyword there, proof non existant

we only have guild wars in steam charts

[somber axle]

Counter strike isn't what it used to be. No one cares about it anymore. It's basically TF2: old, broken, filled with bots and the players clinging to it have Alamo syndrome. They think everyone else cares about it but the answer is that only Texans care about the Alamo and no one else. Same for Counter Strike. The new generation wants Valorant, Fortnite, etc. You cling to dust

[frank ether]

the other two have their own launchers only so can't rely on any numbers

but gw2 is tauted as one of the big ones

its on active development

and it has...

4000 ish daily players on steam

[winged pecan]

can confirm that CS blows rn for competitive its filled with hacks xd

[frank ether]

thats one of your ''big tree'' on western MMO sphere

[tall torrent]

It’s still big

(This is a pic I took just now)

[winged pecan]

ye i tbh

dont get why ppl still play it

i watched my friends play

theres a hacker every other game

[somber axle]

Steam can only track players playing it through Steam. If you look exclusively at Steam the numbers look weird. I don't think most people get an MMO through Steam tbh

[winged pecan]

just spining and headshotting ppl xd

[frank ether]

remember the part where I said these are old games that rely on dwindling captive audience?

if a game is on steam new players will more likely play through steam

not through other means

gw2 is literally cheaper on steam btw due to regional pricing and whatnot

[somber axle]

That's surprising to see the numbers that high. Multiple hundred thousands is nothing to scoff at. I still think WoW trashes that number but you can't track that number because Blizzard keeps their active players/subs close to the chest

[frank ether]

I know because I own GW2 through anet officially

and I pay more for each expansion

[tall torrent]

I just play DRG + DT + some single player stuff now

Want to get into RoN someday tho, looks cool

[frank ether]

yes most of GW2's playerbase is not on steam, and no its not gonna magically add a million players there, there is no such playerbase.

[somber axle]

I didn't mention Guild Wars because it's a big name but it has never really been able to compete. They're like Nintendo in the Playstation vs Xbox debate. They exist for console wars but are they actually competing? Not really

[winged pecan]

I still miss playing mmo after Tera shut down

big sadge

[iron marten]

I remember when cs2 released and alot of people were saying cs is dead, when cs2 is doing better than csgo ever did lmao

[somber axle]

Guild Wars has never in its life ever come close to WoW's population

Not in 1 or 2

Even if you add both together

[winged pecan]

ye but the environment for CS looks so fked

[frank ether]

you have no data on either games population though

[winged pecan]

and this comes from a league player

[frank ether]

we're not told that info

[tall torrent]

Most online forum analysts never studied any subject related to these things lul

[frank ether]

best we can do is guestimate

CS2 numbers are also bloated because it has bots playing

[somber axle]

Yeah that's fine. Blizzard announced 3 xpacs and wouldn't if it was a dead genre LOL

[frank ether]

same with MMORPGs

these games are infested with bots

anytime there is profit involved bots will swarm games

[somber axle]

The game is dead to me and I'm never touching WoW again but that doesn't mean the game is dead

[frank ether]

GW2 is bot infested, ESO is bot infested, runescape is bot infested, WoW is bot infested

I played these games

I've seen the bots

[winged pecan]

O wise one, what would u run for perks for power sword

[somber axle]

Online gaming is bot infested tbh

[winged pecan]

mania/flak

[frank ether]

fucking hell I played private wow servers and even those were bot infested

[tall torrent]

Swap carapace to elite prob

[somber axle]

Darktide is safe because it has like 4000 players worldwide and people who make bots don't care that we exist LOL

[winged pecan]

u rly love elite xd

[frank ether]

yep

[tall torrent]

Unyielding boosts ur boss dmg

[winged pecan]

ye and its t4

[tall torrent]

It’s a super underrated perk

[frank ether]

there is nothing to be gained from running bot trains in darktide

if anything it would make fatshark happy

that people buy 40$ accounts to run bots on

[winged pecan]

doesnt help with specialists but ig ur suppose to 1 shot them from 500m away

[tall torrent]

If u take superiority complex + 10% elite dmg perk, that’s +25% vs every elite enemy

[somber axle]

I don't think there's any real answer to trying to fix the bot crisis across gaming. The whole FixTF2 movement is from gamers out of touch with the scale of the problem. Gaben and Steam will do nothing and the TF2 players will continue being upset about it

[tall torrent]

Most specialists have low health and/or melee dmg weakness

[frank ether]

TF2 community at least dropped their toxic positivity towards the state of the game

which is like a stage of denial

they're now on the anger stage

[somber axle]

The magic wish of hoping Valve comes out with a revolutionary fix for stopping bots across the entire gaming world is a nice hopeful thought but not grounded in reality

[tall torrent]

It’s not 4k worldwide

Steam numbers aren’t that high but Xbox numbers (undisclosed) aren’t that low either

[frank ether]

they are too far gone in the AI brainrot, do not hope anything out of valve

its a ''tReAdmiLL wOrK''

breathing is a fucking treadmill work

[somber axle]

I keep forgetting Xbox players exist too LOL

[frank ether]

actual tards running the gaming industry

[tall torrent]

I think I’ve had more Xbox QP teammates than steam QP teammates since patch 13

[somber axle]

How do you tell one from the other?

Or is it just watching their aim

[frank ether]

I dont rly run into many xbox people in maelstorm queue

[tall torrent]

Only steam players have steam icon below their names in pre-game lobby

[somber axle]

Slow pivot to aim to targets for console players using controllers vs fast flick aim for PC players on mouse/keyboard

[winged pecan]

so ur saying most of my inting teammates

[frank ether]

well, many just die and quit anyway so I cant tell

[winged pecan]

are from xbox?

[somber axle]

I never noticed this before

[tall torrent]

MS store, game pass and Xbox are all shown as a globe icon

[frank ether]

you can tell someones a console player if your lobby is taking forever to load

or if the player is turning around like a drone

[winged pecan]

ye i always assume its just gamepass

[frank ether]

you can sorta tell from the way they move and turn around

[winged pecan]

ye ima be paying attention from now on

and call them out kek

kap

[frank ether]

why bother

its more kills for me

[winged pecan]

fax

[tall torrent]

Well, console playerbase is generally more casual

[winged pecan]

ye idm

[paper axle]

most console players can't strafe properly. Telltale sign

[winged pecan]

just funny to watch

[tall torrent]

and they’re usually not purposefully throwing

Because they’re not gonna type stuff out if they’re on console

[winged pecan]

i dont get how ppl play with controler

cuz i never touched one during childhood

so i can never do it

pc all the way

[tall torrent]

I can’t rly play with controller, but I will say

Xbox controller ergonomics are nice man

It’s just rly comfortable to hold

[paper axle]

As someone who's played on PC exclusively for nearly 25 years now - controllers can be very comfy for some games

[frank ether]

thats funny

I strongly prefer PS controller

[winged pecan]

yer but im too lazy to get used to it

[tall torrent]

To each their own

[frank ether]

yeah

I like that PS controller also has gyro

[winged pecan]

also im often tryhard and most play competitive game b4 dt so

[frank ether]

Not many games support it but its a nice feature

[paper axle]

I think Xbox controller is hard to beat for ergonomics. Offset design is just very clever

[winged pecan]

imagine playing league with controller

[tall torrent]

I’m not a fan of PS model’s ergonomics but the layout is nicer

[frank ether]

been playing around with it

[winged pecan]

ur teammates gona curse ur entire family tree xd

[paper axle]

They will do it even if you are carrying the team. So why care

[winged pecan]

fax

[somber axle]

Xbox controllers are so big and bulky though. Like for big hands they are probably nice but I am a small clown. I really love the Playstation controller because it feels very comfortable to hold and use though

[winged pecan]

thats why they pretty much make chjat muted by default

and never introduce vc

xd

[tall torrent]

Peak LoL is when u learn to dodge teammates’ ping marks better than u can dodge enemies’ skillshots

[somber axle]

I would love to try Darktide on a Playstation controller if I could figure out how to make it work

[winged pecan]

what ping when /muteall start of ea game

btw what breakpoint are u trying to reach with elite dmg on powersword

im testing dont rly c one

is manic/flak not better vs rager/bruiser/mauller

[tall torrent]

1 hit both shotgunners (L)

2 hit both ragers (L)

[winged pecan]

Oh ok

[tall torrent]

2 hit crusher, bulwark, reaper & mauler (PA > L4)

[winged pecan]

i already get that without it tbh

ig just shot gunner

[tall torrent]

Yea

With BM u kill 4 shotgunners per swing

[frank ether]

I wonder if the update will include a lot of balancing stuff

[winged pecan]

new class

when

copium

[frank ether]

there has been a lot of collective moaning about certain weapons

no way they'd leave plasma the way it is

[winged pecan]

i wana run stam regen on vet holy shit its slow af to regen

[tall torrent]

Plasma:
We hear players voice that plasma gun’s charged shots don’t feel worth using over multiple uncharged shots, so we’re giving it some extra power to even out the decision between using different firing modes

• charged shot cleave increased from 100 to 150, and can now cleave through carapace armor

[somber axle]

You generally want at least one of the Stam regen delay talent nodes always

[frank ether]

gfdmbhjmhmdg

nononono

[winged pecan]

ye i have 1

not enough

i want 3 but im running 10% docket cuz im greedy

[midnight totem]

I run double stamina regen on my trinkets instead

[tall torrent]

No u want at least 1 stamina regen boost in the talent tree

That’s what matters more

[somber axle]

Double Stam regen delay from your talents is funny for how quickly it resumes stamina regen after sprinting, blocking, etc.

[somber axle]

3 Stam regen perks on curios and Duck and Dive to fuel Deadshot Recon addiction

Add in Focus Target + Target Down

I need ALL the stamina

[midnight totem]

Clowns do need a lot of stamina for their shenanigans, this is true

[somber axle]

If I'm out of breath before my enemies take their last breath, I have failed as a clown trying to dance

[winged pecan]

i mean i dont c what i should change here rly

i need to get the

[somber axle]

Charismatic over Confirmed Kill??

[winged pecan]

smaller talent page thing

[tall torrent]

Remove 8 stacks, rending strikes, take stam regen boost node
Probably drop field improv? Depends
Probably drop frag & survivalist? Depends on ur ranged weapon

and yes definitely get confirmed kill over charismatic lol

[somber axle]

I'd change Charismatic to Confirmed Kill for sure

[winged pecan]

hmm ye

i forgor this was a thing

[somber axle]

Charismatic is barely useful even if you are running a funny medic build for Born Leader memes

[winged pecan]

never had problem with toughness cuz of shout ig

broken ability xd

[somber axle]

I guess Charismatic to make Loner Zealots upset at you while they try to do the Loner penance?

Does it even mess with them? LOL

[winged pecan]

xd

hmm im running plasma

[fair topaz]

well hit 21. weapon specialist. i think it's mandatory to take +15% crit chance as an option. this true?

[winged pecan]

i feel like i dont rly need krak

let me experiment

dont have too much experience with vet overall beside plasma gun go brrr

[tall torrent]

Where’s +15% crit chance

[sturdy zephyr]

Recongun are fun. Pew pew all the way

[winged pecan]

rending not good?

[fair topaz]

it's after the first set of major nodes, where you can branch out to left or right. it's on the right side

[tall torrent]

Why do u need rending strikes for plasma & power sword

What enemy is that even for

[winged pecan]

ig i dont lmao

[sturdy zephyr]

IDK how much 10% going to help.

[winged pecan]

i was just thinking

bigger dmg = good

[tall torrent]

That 5% crit chance node?

[fair topaz]

15% crit chance

[tall torrent]

Are u by chance a Psyker main

[fair topaz]

seems rather big

[winged pecan]

...

how u know

wtf

LMAO

FK

i live by the sterotype?

[fair topaz]

most games 15% crit increase chance is big

[tall torrent]

It’s +5% crit chance tho

[fair topaz]

oh my eyes then

[winged pecan]

i main psyker but tbh kinda switching to other classes at this point

[winged pecan]

smite surge psyker main :^)))))

[fair topaz]

i'm playing on a laptop screen

[tall torrent]

Well, psyker is like the only class where dmg breakpoints don’t matter much because u always have Soulblaze to make up for any missing dmg

[winged pecan]

ye

[midnight totem]

Because without Rending unpowered ps makes sad tink sound?

[winged pecan]

ig thats why

[tall torrent]

Whereas veteran is like
U want consistent breakpoints all the time

[winged pecan]

i just blast away with my staff

[somber axle]

Do something like this and use your next point at level 22 to get Iron Will. I assume you are Voice of Command. You can save more talent points going Smoke Grenade/Close and Kill Aura but while you're leveling and new to Vet I think Kraks will be better for you while you run Weapon Specialist and Tinkerer will let you 1HKO Bulwarks/Crushers with 1 Krak

[fair topaz]

is plasma gun just like a big bomb that goes off all the time

[tall torrent]

And also
“More dmg = good” is zealot/psyker 50:50
I just happened to pick Psyker

[winged pecan]

^

u got me there

surge smite psyker caught in 4k

kek

[last parcel]

bro got exposed 💀

[winged pecan]

wat

?

?

i saw that

[tall torrent]

Well it’s more like “remove any enemy in that general direction”

[fair topaz]

Iron will @somber axle that the one with toughness dmg reduction as long as above 50% toughness?

[winged pecan]

didnt know this was a kink channel

[somber axle]

Yes bottom middle tree just below Tactical Awareness

It's very strong

Very worth having

[sturdy zephyr]

You said before exe stance build. Other than helbore,which weapon can really good with it?(exe stance,infli).

[somber axle]

Will make you a lot more tanky for eating hits

[fair topaz]

should help once i get hit my toughness literally goes to 20% or 30%

i usually use voice the instant i get hit

or before

[last parcel]

skip if you are korean

[winged pecan]

Oh

[fair topaz]

i think it might be good. third tier near top level node

[winged pecan]

stam regen boost nod like the small circle with no icons?

[fair topaz]

iron will

[winged pecan]

well i never look at those :^)

big dmg = good

[tall torrent]

For the most part veteran’s talent choices depend on the weapons u take (usually u build for important breakpoints)

[fair topaz]

those stam regens worht it?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[tall torrent]

Yes, that one is very strong

[somber axle]

Exe Stance also works well with Boltgun imo. I tend to use it with the Kantrael Infantry Lasguns too for hitting funny breakpoints that someone without Exe Stance needs more investment to hit or otherwise can't hit

[fair topaz]

so far i like recon lasgun, full autoguns, and plasma gun but like plasma is unwieldy short of boss fight is what i'm thinking

power sword

[last parcel]

yeah

[sturdy zephyr]

Depends and sometime its important especially heavy weapon build. IMO

[winged pecan]

sth like this?

[tall torrent]

@winged pecan
Veteran’s base stam regen delay is 1s (same as Ogryn)
With 1 boost it’s 0.75s (same as zealot)
With both boosts it’s 0.5s (same as psyker)

U don’t have to go duck & dive for it

[fair topaz]

u need stam for pushing and heavy attacks right?

[tall torrent]

There’s a node on bottom left side right below superiority complex

[fair topaz]

and running

[somber axle]

I love Korean food and their gaming community is insane but I don't understand their strats for Darktide

[winged pecan]

OH

[fair topaz]

imma korean, but not part of the korean community

[winged pecan]

lmao ok thnx

[last parcel]

outskilling the quality of their build

[somber axle]

Korean BBQ makes me drool

[tall torrent]

Push, block, sprint, (deadshot)
All of these actions, plus dodge, will reset stamina regen delay back to full

[winged pecan]

unless i want 2 stam regen ig

[last parcel]

korean bbq tasty

[tall torrent]

Usually u don’t need both

[fair topaz]

gain 5 lbs korean bbq haha

[somber axle]

They're so good they don't need to min max their talents and just do whatever they want. I wish I could be that silly LOL

[winged pecan]

but big number good :^)

jk ye

what i do with the 3 left over talent then hmm

[fair topaz]

anything u like i suppose

get that crit chance node

[tall torrent]

I talked with him a bit in dm, seems like it’s mostly due to not knowing breakpoints to build so they just do whatever they think is good (and is often not the meta)

[last parcel]

FULL GRENADE

[tall torrent]

Agile engagement

Desperado

[sturdy zephyr]

Bout say same thinf

[tall torrent]

Either of these imo

[sturdy zephyr]

Full grenade

[somber axle]

Ah ok that makes sense. They're not building for breakpoints

[tall torrent]

Frag also benefits a lot from demo team

[sturdy zephyr]

Extra grenade alway fun

[winged pecan]

ig if i want frag

ye

i think i still want frag with plasma gun

[tall torrent]

U don’t need longshot for plasma if it’s set-up properly

This is my plasma build https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/984525651904176209/1251793340500938783/Screenshot_2024-06-16_023601.png?ex=66747c25&is=66732aa5&hm=1ed3b1c6f0fe19eacb72827a8cfabb84fb1d82bf58e6b0c5e8ad95a875fd8e2b&

[fair topaz]

u can't miss with plasma, it's like the room glows and one target down

[last parcel]

challenge accepted

[winged pecan]

^

i play

surge staff

u think i can aim?

[fair topaz]

it reminds me of deathwing game actually

the plasma guns in this game

[last parcel]

spectating me is like watching shaky cam action movie

[fair topaz]

except they were more useful in deathwing

[somber axle]

Krieg Grenadier taking Kraks, Grenadier +1 reserve nade, Demo Stockpile 1 min nade regen, Demo Team 5% nade regen on elite/special kill, Twinned Blast 20% chance for 2 nades on throw and Field Improv just to hoard the ammo crate and fling kraks unending at the first boss they see

I want to try this now unironically LMFAO

Time to gamble on 6 kraks from 3 throws

[winged pecan]

ye

i saw that build

[tall torrent]

Twinned blast + demo stockpile + demo team is actually pretty good for frags

The problem is

[winged pecan]

u dont run keystone right

[tall torrent]

U need 2 low point cost weapons to afford that

[somber axle]

Plasma, Revolver or CIAG would be the smart plays. But I never said I was a smart clown. HELBORE MK II TIME... Gotta double down on the Krieg Grenadier meme

[last parcel]

i did it with mk1

[tall torrent]

HB2 is low point cost

It’s actually lower than plasma

[somber axle]

It is? I never noticed but then I always run it for a 2HKO Crusher breakpoint so I am doing very odd things

[tall torrent]

Plasma needs redirect fire for major breakpoint

Helbore 2 doesn’t

Also no need for survivalist

[somber axle]

I don't do Redirect Fire for my Mk II Helbore

[tall torrent]

So u could run frag > tinkerer > fire team

And still be fine on ammo

[winged pecan]

shit my gf ganking me

ig there goes my gaming session

[fair topaz]

is higher version (mk v vs mk ii for example) generally the route to take for a weapon type?

[tall torrent]

No

They just tell u what variant it is

It comes down to what the variant actually does

[fair topaz]

mark usually denotes version

[tall torrent]

For example

[last parcel]

variant version, potato potato

[fair topaz]

tiger mkii, mkiii

[tall torrent]

Zarona mk2 revolver is WAY better than Agripinaa mk14 revolver

[fair topaz]

but zarona is a different weapon type than agripinnaa

aripinna mk12 vs mk14 example

viable both?

[last parcel]

weapon type is the words at the end

[tall torrent]

Ur misunderstanding the naming convention in this game

[last parcel]

so snub nosed revolver

[tall torrent]

Weapon type is “revolver”

[somber axle]

OH TRUE

Even more grenade memes

[tall torrent]

Zarona, Agripinaa, etc
These are lore related names (weapon origin)

Variant is mk1 / mk2 / mk3 / …

[fair topaz]

ok so variant is different than version number

[tall torrent]

Only weapon type and variant matter

[fair topaz]

it's more like variant type

type 1, type a, type 3 etc

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa is a forge world and there’re have a lot of weapons from it
Agripinaa mk1 is an automatic rifle
Agripinaa mk7 is a combat shotgun
Agripinaa mk8 is a braced automatic rifle
Agripinaa mk9 is a 2-r burst DMR
Agripinaa mk14 is a revolver

None of these are the same weapon type

[fair topaz]

i see

chainswords have mk2 and mk7a

[tall torrent]

No

[fair topaz]

that different? or they different types

[tall torrent]

Chainswords are mk4 and mk13g

There’s no mk2 chainsword in the game

Or mk7a chainsword

[fair topaz]

i think im' confused

thinking zealot weapons and veteran weapons

[tall torrent]

Zealot has evicerator

[fair topaz]

and i don't know the mks accurately

[tall torrent]

Mk2 and mk15

XV is 15

[fair topaz]

so with the variant chainswords or evicerators

is the higher mark a better quality weapon?

[tall torrent]

Chainsword is not the same weapon type as evicerator even though they look similar

[fair topaz]

there's multiple eviscerators and chainswords

[tall torrent]

And no, variant (mk ???) only tells what the variant is, its function decides performance

[fair topaz]

so i'm running a power sword and i like it's mad slashing speed

[tall torrent]

There’re 2 power swords, mk3 and mk6

[fair topaz]

chain and evisc are good for downing monstrosities

i have a mk3

pretty sure

i'm lvl 21

[tall torrent]

Mk6 is considered the better variant

[fair topaz]

i don't think i've unlocked it yet

[tall torrent]

But u don’t have to think abt build craft rn

Just lvl up till 30

Then u can make builds

[fair topaz]

u advise save diamanite

or concecrate along the way

diamantite? spelling not sure

[tall torrent]

No consecration until lv30+

[fair topaz]

ah bleh that means consecate is expensive at 30

i'm saving up now

guess everyone playing now. may you never get downed 😄 see you all in game

[stoic mantle]

gentlemen, is the trick to the marksman's focus penance to just CIAG and spray hordes at head height?

[tall torrent]

No, u take camouflage (gain stacks when crouch moving/stationary) and melee as many enemies as u can while crab walking

It’s any kill at 10 MF stacks

Melee just gets it done faster

[stoic mantle]

roger

[last parcel]

it is a bit more expensive, but the point is that you get high base level gear at level 30, which directly leads to better blessings/perks when consecrating

[somber axle]

Do you have a Lawbringer Shotgun and the Manstopper II and Scattershot III or Scattershot IV blessings? I can teach you a very funny and easy way to get it done if so

[stoic mantle]

I do not

[somber axle]

Sadness

[last parcel]

no essay this time

[stoic mantle]

this is my gun collection

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/behold-stuff-belongings-look-see-gif-21565897

[stoic mantle]

Lasgun is des

CIAG is troy

[somber axle]

If you ever get one use the Lawbringer Shotgun with both blessings. Use Camo node under Marksman's Focus. As soon as you have 10 stacks load the special shot and use the extra wide horizontal blast to wipe out hordes in 1 shot. Very effective for earning the kills

It will wipe an entire wave of poxwalkers and groaners in 1 shot

Very fast and fun way of doing the penance imo

No crab walking required

But it does require a Lawbringer Shotgun and both blessings or it doesn't work

[stoic mantle]

All things return to crab

https://tenor.com/view/spycrab-tf2-team-fortress-gif-4794774

[coral willow]

just nade the horde

[stoic mantle]

speaking of nades

[winged pecan]

or u can

[stoic mantle]

fuck armourbane

[winged pecan]

just play kickback ogryn

kek

[somber axle]

I love Lawbringer Shotgun with Manstopper and Scattershot because the crazy cleave evaporates hordes. Poxwalkers become dust and maggots. Groaners become a fine red mist. It is magical in ways I cannot describe to you

[austere mica]

The lawb clear build is also pretty decent

[stoic mantle]

that doesnt help at all

[coral willow]

i use it with marty zealot

kinda not into it

[somber axle]

Fair

[austere mica]

Also big suppression against shooters

[winged pecan]

just sayin

[somber axle]

But nades are not really effective either for 2500 Marksman's Focus 10 stack penance

[winged pecan]

i cant stand shotgun reload

[austere mica]

Load a special shell and put heads down

[winged pecan]

so nono for me

[coral willow]

eh

its effective on horde

[somber axle]

You need 2 shredder frag nades to kill a small group of poxwalkers

[coral willow]

and any kill while above 10stack

[somber axle]

2 nades for 1 group

[coral willow]

2 nades for 1 entire group

[somber axle]

That's not efficient or effective for grinding

Ok next wave is here and you have 1 shredder

You're back to crabwalking and melee

All things return to crab

[coral willow]

get every nade talent smh

[austere mica]

Also Manstopper allows you to pen friends

[winged pecan]

oh are u grinding for kills or what

penance?

[stoic mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/crab-people-funny-crabs-gif-7366499

[somber axle]

Ok wait 1 min for a second nade to be ready and now you can do it again. The you have 0 nades and have to wait 2 min to do it to another poxwalker wave

This isn't efficient for grinding but it is a good supplement to it

Nade only MF 10 stack grinding sounds like torture

[stoic mantle]

I'm gonna say it.

Vet nades suck

[austere mica]

Live krak reaction

[hearty panther]

throwing knife supremacy

[somber axle]

Nah they're all good dogs Bront

[winged pecan]

compared to ogryn nade and fire nad

ye its pretty bad

[stoic mantle]

Krak magnetizes at will, sometimes they dont will

[winged pecan]

well ogryn only get one

krak is pretty lit

tbh

[stoic mantle]

Ogryn has 2 of the best clearing grenades

[somber axle]

Ogryn nade is 1 and done. 2 shredders wipes a mixed horde of flak ragers and poxwalkers, and bleeds maulers to a very easy kill range

[stoic mantle]

and rock

[somber axle]

Rock is very nice though

[stoic mantle]

psyker blitzes are just busted

[winged pecan]

Rok is

best

[somber axle]

Ogryn Frag is nice but too limited. Having only the 1 grenade and being out of luck if you need to clear the room again is eh

[stoic mantle]

And zealot has huge area CC, fire, and face deleting knives

[winged pecan]

i cant get tired of rokin mutants

[somber axle]

But throwing a rock to hit a sniper across the map is magical

[stoic mantle]

rokin snipers from downtown

[hearty panther]

knife too tho

[winged pecan]

too much effort

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/asian-girl-brick-brick-throw-kill-gif-25574003

[winged pecan]

i rather kickback at their direction twice

[stoic mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/ball-over-that-mountain-napoleon-gif-22316230

[somber axle]

Idk fire nade seems pretty meh to me

[winged pecan]

Fuck u in that general direction

i like it alot but thats cuz im lazy to use knife

[somber axle]

Is there some Zealot trick to it I do not know

[stoic mantle]

Fire nade is peak, especially in hunting grounds

[winged pecan]

^

vs hounds its peak

[stoic mantle]

it nullifies dogs

[somber axle]

Fire nade for dogs?

[winged pecan]

it also kill everything beside crusher

literally everything

[stoic mantle]

a single tick of fire damage knocks the dogs off

[winged pecan]

bulwark mauler

[somber axle]

I've never seen a single Zealot deploy fire for any hound pack

[winged pecan]

then

[stoic mantle]

I see it all the time

[winged pecan]

idk what to tell u

thats the basics

[stoic mantle]

if they're running it

[winged pecan]

^

[coral willow]

why wouldnt you use demo team is my question

[somber axle]

I have seen Zealots with fire nade

I have not seen them use it vs hounds

[winged pecan]

how many game hours u got lmao

i fiind that impossible

[stoic mantle]

play more maelstrom

[winged pecan]

at least i do it all the time and ive seen it often

[coral willow]

its fine on hound rushes

since it acts as a safeguard

[somber axle]

Demo Team + Demo Stockpile for nade wiping hordes and you'll still kill slower and finish your penance slower despite the extra talent investment vs a Lawbringer sweeping rooms for low effort

[winged pecan]

1 nad = dead pack of hounds

and everything around it

[coral willow]

idk why its extra investment, i always take it over iron will

[winged pecan]

makes hunting grounds free tbh

[coral willow]

:teeth;

[stoic mantle]

fire is especially good when your teammates dont do the door trick

[winged pecan]

^]

that too

also when on stairs

[stoic mantle]

which randoms never do

[winged pecan]

fire spread like 3x size

[stoic mantle]

because they're stupid

[winged pecan]

actually makes u untouchable

[tall torrent]

Just take iron will, I even showed u 2 builds

[somber axle]

Yeah but even I, a clown who does things for fun, cannot understand your strats. You build things in strange ways and I do not understand the madness behind the method. When I grab Recons and juice them into killing Crushers there's a reason even if people don't agree or understand why I do it. Using shredder frags as your main method for clearing hordes to grind Marksman's Focus 10 stack penance and saying it does the grind better than Lawbringer is not only objectively wrong but also hilariously wrong

[winged pecan]

ironwill is broken tho

especially with shout

u take 0 dmg

[last parcel]

their plan is "just don't get hit"

[winged pecan]

.

thats like saying

just hold block

[tall torrent]

No their plan is rly just “if I get hit I cope with it”

[winged pecan]

.

[stoic mantle]

No

[winged pecan]

then just

[stoic mantle]

their teammates cope with it

[winged pecan]

run 0 toughness/hp curio

[stoic mantle]

cause they're down

[winged pecan]

3 stamina

dont run any toughness nod

basically be those speedrunners

in darksoul

run naked

cuz ur not gona get hit :^)

[last parcel]

this whole time i thought they just had a god complex

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/geez-thats-me-michael-cera-gif-24705388

Triple Stam curios is love

Triple Stam curios is life

[last parcel]

i was only 9 years old

i loved triple stam curio very much

[somber axle]

My skin is paper and my bones are glass
Good luck heretics trying to catch this clown ass

[atomic zephyr]

one thing i regret about switching personalities to cutthroat: all the vendors hate me

what's up with that

[somber axle]

Anyway brb need to actually do work and not just mess around on discord all day

[winged pecan]

when is the game giving me a fking thrust 4 on my hammer

fml

[winged pecan]

3stam knife infiltrate vet?

[tall torrent]

I find it very interesting that depending on the player, cutthroat is either the whiniest person ever or the most focused killer ever

I haven’t heard my cutthroat whine in a LONG time

[last parcel]

3 stam deadshot recon

[winged pecan]

.

[somber axle]

3 Stam Deadshot Duck and Dive Focus Target Target Down Recon Mk VId Vet and sometimes Knife but other times Chainsword Mk IV or Mk XIIIg, Catachan swords or Shovels depending on which I am in the mood to play with

With enough Stam you can walk up to a downed team mate and tell the poxwalkers to punch air because they cannot hope to stop you from finishing the rescue

I can spam push attacks

I can block very effectively

I can sprint often and worry less about 0 Stam dark souls fat roll slide dodging

Stamina is very, very nice

My strategy is less "just don't get hit or suffer" and more "dodge, block, shove and stay ahead of the horde always looking for the next good position to fight them"

Falling back to a chokepoint or forcing the horde to climb is very nice for bottlenecking threats

Also Confirmed Kill or Out for Blood keeping my toughness topped off because I do run with Iron Will and if I am using Confirmed Kill I also have Close Order Drill. The combined TDR is pretty strong and with sniper resist perks on curios I am ok

[sleek garden]

what does cutthroat whine about

They constantly reference revenge for cadia if that's what they mean

And give up hope hold on to vengeance

edgy

[tall torrent]

Cadia

[frank ether]

how does it depend on the player

[fair topaz]

this worth 12k?

i need a weapon upgrade

[tall torrent]

Beyond VoC voicelines I haven’t heard my vet directly mention Cadia for a really long time

[sleek garden]

If the stats are higher than your current gun, go for it

When levelling up I usually look at base weapon stats

[frank ether]

maybe someone at fatshark realized cadian vet is obnoxious?

[sleek garden]

But generally a higher power level is better

[fair topaz]

it's autogun 67 dmg high stopping power, currently have different autogun 207 dmg

[sleek garden]

The columnus has a very high fire rate

[tall torrent]

Well no because I still hear other cutthroats (when I play other classes) whine a lot

[frank ether]

lol

[sleek garden]

At that level it's very hard to control but good for closer single target fights I suppose

Put 50 bullets into a mauler fast

[fair topaz]

i see. 55 columnus ammo vs 40 in the other, but the 3x67 vs 207 dmg about the same. higher stopping poweron the columnus

[frank ether]

I somehow doubt cadian whinging is depending on player actions but then again

some voicelines are dependant on what you do

or what others do

[tall torrent]

It’s weird because my vet doesn’t even talk much

[frank ether]

so plausible

[tall torrent]

He only ever talks in response to other characters’ praises

[fair topaz]

i'll try it. just seemed 12k was high. i have about 130k

[sleek garden]

Sometimes they say though I am surrounded by the weak I remain strong

he hates his teammates

[tall torrent]

He doesn’t even participate in bonding conversations much

[fair topaz]

only gun over 300 rating currently in the shops

[frank ether]

loose cannon is great

[somber axle]

Do you ping targets a LOT

[sleek garden]

He talks to the ogryn who says sah

there's a few conversations

[frank ether]

I guess male cutthroat has a good voice

but they give him the most cringe one liners

[tall torrent]

Wdyt

[frank ether]

I have never heard female cutthroat

that hints at me its probably not that good

[tall torrent]

Make cutthroat + voice modulator (scion helm) is god tier

It’s way better than normal cutthroat

[somber axle]

Because I've noticed when I run Focus Target builds and ping more often my Vet does less dialogue with squads but when I run Weapon Specialist or Marksman's Focus and only ping for disablers or larger threats like a boss spawning in or a Crusher sneaking up from behind that my character talks more

[frank ether]

scion is pretty ok for female LC too

[tall torrent]

Oh that could be it

[frank ether]

part of why I'm sad scion helmet didn't come in multiple colurs

the voice module is fun

if we had blue it would pair very nice with the penance stuff

[tall torrent]

But yea my cutthroat is basically
Quiet for 5 mins then “DEATH IS MY BLESSING” then back to quiet

[frank ether]

ah yes quiet kid in school

[tall torrent]

He does praise other characters tho

But like that’s abt it

Barely any bonding convo

[frank ether]

I'll try it out sometime

I have a female character though

and female cutthroat I have never heard

like genuinely never ever had one

[tall torrent]

Male Cutthroat is like a 3/10 voice for me
But scion helm makes it 8/10

[fleet thicket]

Lol

I see okay

I was wondering man

You know devil claw ? What mark do you use ?

I got goth 7 and 4

[tall torrent]

Both are ok
4 is easier to use
7 has safer single target options but is much more complex

[last parcel]

she's more of a "hisssss i'll shank you in the alleyway" chainsmoker voice than "THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT CADIA YOU LITTLE BITCH I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I GRADUATED TOP OF MY CLASS IN THE KASRKIN AND HAVE OVER 3000 CONFIRMED KILLS"

[tall torrent]

Super rare

[frank ether]

If its less about cadia this cadia that that would be nice but voice tone is important to delivering a character too

imo not many of the female voices are worthwhile for me

I like the loose cannon

[midnight totem]

alrighty, anybody up for a game?

[last parcel]

gonna buy this for max impact

[frank ether]

bruh

player retention blessings

[umbral scaffold]

What mod is that

[winged pecan]

wats the point of old shovel

[umbral scaffold]

Need

[winged pecan]

i dont understand the purpose of it tbh

compared to new shovels

[last parcel]

booping nose is funny

[fleet thicket]

Ehhh

[atomic zephyr]

me getting matched with a guy who manages worse ammo efficiency with a graia than i doa columnus

[fleet thicket]

To boop

Ragers to the face

Also man

This aggrpinaa revolver

Wtf is the point of this thing

[coral willow]

more nades

[fleet thicket]

It didn't kill in one clip

The crusher

[coral willow]

crit 3 times and it might die

[last parcel]

you use it while listening to marty robbins big iron

[shadow dagger]

i remember the og chainsword got changed a while ago to buff the push attack

did literally anything change about its use

or do i still special heavy on anything worth using the special on

[fleet thicket]

Ehhh I mean the lights actually

Do things now

Like kill shit

[tall torrent]

Did u actually see the builds I sent u

[fleet thicket]

What blessings you run ?

[tall torrent]

Because I have both nade regen

[fleet thicket]

I was running with tacaxe with shroudfield loner build with blazing piety

[shadow dagger]

alright what do i change on this one

[fleet thicket]

Yes

Crit chance to

Maniac

[last parcel]

imagine reading

[fleet thicket]

And I would change wrath personally to shred or savage sweep

Depends on your own playstyle

But seriously I tried running aggrpinaa on both zealot and before it just felt underwhelming

[shadow dagger]

what does playstyle affect on blessing choice

[fleet thicket]

Do you like critting ?

Then go with shred

If not would you rather have more cleave ?

Go with savage sweep

[atomic zephyr]

how 2 get good at melee combat
keep getting punked by bulwark gangs

[fleet thicket]

Kantreal shotgun says hello

[atomic zephyr]

was using revolver lmao

maybe ill have to pick up a kant for my vet

[fleet thicket]

Yeah I mean just krak grenade them too

That would work

[atomic zephyr]

fair

i think generally im just not as good at melee as i am at shooting

[fleet thicket]

Well thats most people you will get use to it

I personally am more melee oriented player I had to get my aim on point in this game

[fleet thicket]

Forget it keep the wrath!

You gonna need that wrath later for the the other model

Or mark

[coral willow]

did swap for some of them but i still prefer demo team tbh

[feral bay]

Just tried out the mk VIIa recon lasgun. Not very impressed.

I'll stick with the columnus IA for now.

[fair topaz]

whoever said columnus is a good choice at 12k, they were right. it rocks

[feral bay]

Columnus is best for the autoguns.

Braced and infantry!

[coral willow]

yours did have one

but didnt got the melee speed so had to make some sacrifices

[tall torrent]

It has both iron will & demo team…

[bitter turtle]

cant expect lacerate users to read smh

jk

[junior needle]

Columnus brauto is objectively the worst one

With worse dps and ammo efficiency than the other two

All the recons are also undertuned atm

It's a big meme

[coral willow]

yeah i had to take some of the poitns off to get +10% melee speed

thats all

[tall torrent]

U don’t need +atk speed for every melee

[coral willow]

ig im used to zealot

[gilded rock]

I like the sheer amount of specialist and elite kills per mag personally. Much more than Columnus, even if slightly lower TTK

[tall torrent]

Then drop demo team

[coral willow]

i dropped iron will instead

[winged pecan]

here we go

[last parcel]

[winged pecan]

again

just dont get hit

[somber axle]

Comparing the Recon Mk VIIa or any of the other Recons to the Infantry Autoguns sounds like a fair comparison but it's really not. They're both ADS automatic weapons and that is where the similarities begin and end. Recon Mk VIIa has more in common with the Kantrael Mk IV Infantry Lasgun than it does with any autogun. Compared to the Infantry Lasguns the Recon Mk VIIa has a similar playstyle of special/elite killer that shouldn't be taken against Carapace. Infantry Autoguns can be turned against Crushers for little to no talent investment while still outperforming the Lasguns on DPS/TTK but the trick is that Lasguns benefit most from crit builds with Shock Trooper for extended periods of fire between reloads to make up for a lower damage. So if you don't do crit stacking, rending stacking or shock trooper the Lasguns will feel very underwhelming compared to the Autoguns. And any other automatic in the game will always feel underwhelming to the power of the Columnus Infantry Autogun

Crit stacking with shock trooper pushes them into funny levels of ammo efficiency and ammo economy

[feral bay]

I have some crit stacking with my current VIIa recon, but I was still eating ammunition like nothing.

[somber axle]

Also the cleave on the Recon Mk VIIa is nice for shooting through Ogryn players to kill the trapper they're about to be netted by without needing to reposition

[somber axle]

Is that with Headhunter and Deadshot memes? What did you do for crit stacking?

[feral bay]

Yeah, I was trying it out to see if it was decent compared to the columnus in terms of ammo efficiency. Maybe I just need a better build once I hit level 30

[sinful swallow]

Wut

[last parcel]

i wouldn't recommend deadshot recon for a new player lmao

[feral bay]

By 'stacking' I mean 'doing the most my smoothbrainedness can muster.'

[somber axle]

Also remember that the Recon Mk VIIa has a crit string of 2 and also uses 2 ammo per shot so between crit strings the Mk VIIa is eating through the clip faster than the clip size would make you think

[somber axle]

Wait they're new? Oh whoops

[feral bay]

I am using executioner's stance.

haven't gotten far enough down to get rending yet

[somber axle]

I will warn that the Columnus Infantry Autogun is one of the most powerful guns in the game right now for the crit strings, high fire rate, good damage and high finesse values. It is up there with Zarona Revolver and Plasma as the three kings of the Vet meta

[feral bay]

I have no idea what a crit string is.

[somber axle]

So using almost any other gun is going to feel weak

[sinful swallow]

Think TF2 minigun

[feral bay]

🪣

[somber axle]

A crit string is the number of shots that crit in a row when you crit. Semi auto weapons will crit only on the one shot. Automatic weapons get crit strings so for the Recon Mk VIIa the first two shots are crits

[feral bay]

So, for the first shot, (2 ammo) or two shots (normally 4 ammo)

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper is a talent that makes any Lasgun crit free

So if a Recon Mk VIIa crits it fires 2 crits and both are free ammo shots

[feral bay]

That's a gripe I have with lasguns. Why did the devs have to make the numbers so freaking annoying

[somber axle]

A crit on a Recon Mk VIIa turns ammo cost from 4 ammo for the 2 shots to 0 ammo spent for both

The Recon Mk VId and Recon Mk II only use 1 ammo per shot

[feral bay]

Hm.

But are either of them as powerful as the mk VIIa

Or near it

[somber axle]

Yes and no

[feral bay]

In terms of ammo efficiency and ttk

[junior needle]

https://tenor.com/view/can-you-summarize-it-benjamin-learn-english-with-benjamin-benjamin-engvid-can-you-shorten-it-gif-22184921

[ancient raptor]

what's your strategy when you have the columnus and your team uses lots of ammo ? Should i only target specials with headshots ?

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk VId does not have cleave for its shots but has the fastest firing rate of all the Recon Lasguns. It benefits most from the talent Onslaught to give enemies stacking brittleness. Brittleness is better than Rending imo. Rending just gives you armour penetration. Brittleness reduces the effectiveness of a target's armour so everyone attacking it benefits. It's like a teamwide Rending to targets you shoot. But the brittleness on Onslaught has very niche value. It is not always useful and often times the 10% Rending from the Rending Strikes talent is enough on its own. Onslaught is good for the Recon Mk VId because it has a fast fire rate. Onslaught is bad for the Recon Mk VIIa because it has a slow fire rate

[feral bay]

My strategy is always using survivalist so the team gets more ammo back.

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[junior needle]

Sneaky runs an extremely glass cannon setup to compensate for the fact that recons are bad.

[feral bay]

So from what you're saying, I might like the mk II because it's in the middle

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk VId can do things the Recon Mk VIIa can't but as a warning the things I do with the Recon Mk VId are not beginner friendly

[junior needle]

mk2 recon is the lowest dps gun in the game

It is objectively the worst recon you could use

[feral bay]

I'm willing to take that chance.

Just to see.

[junior needle]

You don't have to take a chance, I can just show you

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk II is arguably the weakest of the Recons but I think it is still something fun to try out. I have used it in Auric Damnation difficulty if you are concerned with viability. While leveling all of the guns are fine. You will only begin to notice the weapons struggle on performance when getting into higher difficulties but there are ways to offset that

[junior needle]

What sneaky thinks is fun =/= actually fun

[feral bay]

How does it FEEL to serve the Emperor using the mk II though

[junior needle]

And using something in aurics =/= it being good

[feral bay]

you can use greys in auric damnation with the right build and enough skill.

[junior needle]

Yes, or go gray weapons and talentless

[somber axle]

Fun is subjective. What you find fun is different from what I find fun. It's impossible to define what fun is for someone else. That's why I recommend people try things

[junior needle]

If you really want to push it

fun for masochists =/= fun for not masochists

[feral bay]

I'm going to look into the mk II recon lascorn

[junior needle]

I'm warning you ahead of time

It is the weakest gun in an already weak gunline

Sneaky please stop telling people misleading information

[somber axle]

Clearing Aurics with a weapon shows that it is viable even if it is not competitive. It's not meant to show that the weapon is able to do as much damage or comparable DPS/TTK to the three meta guns. Just that it can be used to success in the higher difficulty content in the game. If it can work there, it can work much better and easier in lower difficulty content while leveling too

[junior needle]

You are actively baiting people into spending money on absolute dog weapons

[feral bay]

This doesn't stop me from wanting to try it. I want to try the shredder autopistol, too. Because it's similar to a braced autogun, but pistol-y

[somber axle]

I think they're cat weapons if I use them

[junior needle]

"viable" is a useless measure if the only criteria is "you can feasibly complete the mission with this"

Shredder is also doing poorly atm

But its your resources

[somber axle]

I wouldn't recommend the Recons for a no ammo scab only Auric Maelstrom

But they're fine in other content

[feral bay]

I don't touch auric even on my ogryn. I'm not good enough for that stuff.

[junior needle]

If you are not good then taking bad weapons won't help you

But lower difficulty missions will give you more leeway

[somber axle]

Is there anything I said that was misleading? I did say the Mk II was arguably the weakest of the Lasguns and that Lasguns benefit most from crit stacking, Rending stacking and Shock Trooper which are all true. I also pointed out how the Mk VIIa doesn't make good use of Onslaught while the Mk VId does

[junior needle]

You talk up the guns and obfuscate how bad they are on a baseline

That's misleading

[feral bay]

Alrighty. Let's see how this does tomorrow

[tiny summit]

Not a lot of things are masochistic in this game. At most things are just less optimal

Hyperbole is fun. Also gets grating

[junior needle]

Sneaky runs a pure glass cannon build with exe stance and deadshot on the fastest firing weapon in the game

[tiny summit]

Yea. Number of people can find some fun with the piss shooter

[junior needle]

Which mandates sitting at the front and dodging ranged fire to refill stamina

[tiny summit]

Most people still arent grinding the game as much as us and sitting at malice/heresy

[junior needle]

It's, to say the least, a niche playstyle and setup that most people would very much not enjoy

That's true, but if they aren't grinding as much nor being rewarded as much due to playing lower difficulty missions

Crafting materials would then be harder to come by

And comparatively more valuable

[tiny summit]

Ok? I think the point they are giving is different stuff to try and make your own fun in this game

Every time I see Sneaky talk about Recon they do give the "BUT!" talk

[feral bay]

Like me

[sturdy zephyr]

Heresy are best for less headache in randoms

[junior needle]

If you're going to suggest things to people, it's important that there's a clear understanding of how good. Listing a bunch of psyk warrior glass cannon stats and playing it up gives people a false impression, especially if you only later go "oh well but maybe there's more to it" when prompted (often by me).

[tiny summit]

Need a "why is everyone so mean to me" caked ogryn react

[junior needle]

It should be accurate from the start

[sturdy zephyr]

Dumdum bless available on infantrygun?

[junior needle]

yes

[sturdy zephyr]

Or no luck

[last parcel]

infantry lasgun or infantry autogun

[sturdy zephyr]

Ahh more grind then.sheshh

Infantry autogun

Dakka

[junior needle]

then yes

[last parcel]

have fun grinding

[tiny summit]

Oh boy more grind

What if the crafting update numbers are so fucked when it launches it created vastly more grind

[last parcel]

i'd start playing suicide bomber plasma

[sturdy zephyr]

More blessing each type of weapons

Or curios can have blessing

[tiny summit]

Vets will get some minor nerf that will send the reddit into doomer mode again

They add tier 5 blessings but they arent any more powerful than tier 4 but they rescaled everything to bloat blessing pools

[last parcel]

i cant dump revolver shots into poxwalkers
vet already unplayable

[junior needle]

Just warning you fairly ahead of time. If you weren't impressed by the 7a, you're not going to do any better with the 2 because it just does less dps.

[somber axle]

OK I RETURN

Am at work and it is lunch break time

[last parcel]

salad time again?

https://tenor.com/view/cat-whats-happening-im-not-hungry-gif-14868925

[tiny summit]

Yea I wouldnt. Like I just came out against hyperbole against trying to make a recon but man...maybe dont with the II

[coral willow]

demotem

[tiny summit]

Always salad time

[somber axle]

@junior needle I'm probably not going to read up on everything but people exaggerate how good and how bad things are. Recons are fine imo even if you don't run my funny talent build. The Recon Mk VIIa and Recon Mk II have slower fire rates and arguably benefit more from Deadshot as a result of it too

They're fine

Especially for a new player clearing Sedition and working into Heresy

You panic too much

Not everyone is rushing Recons into Aurics