veteran-class

[frank ether]

And the highlight feature could be salvaged

[midnight totem]

Bam

[frank ether]

but rest of exe, worthless

[midnight totem]

Now 100 percent feels better

[rigid pilot]

Instant reload will only be fair

[frank ether]

Literally the only real feedback you get from it is the highlight.

with some mods I can't even tell if I have it on or not at times

[tall torrent]

it'd still have 2 horrible pathing nodes in front of it

[rigid pilot]

Slight zoom and less suppression but like those aren't gonna make to shoot differently

[midnight totem]

Fine. Let's rework take a breathe

[rigid pilot]

Just shooting better

[midnight totem]

Because that one sucks

[frank ether]

Yeah you get like, suppression/stun immunity

but to me thats kinda babying vets

[tall torrent]

catch a breath is fine

[uncut token]

Make gun kill better

[frank ether]

thats not what you really need

[misty crypt]

The highlight that should be anyway just a very slight improvement of a situation the team spams the marking key anyway (... Pls. Use this key as often as possible)

[tall torrent]

killzone and opening salvo suck horribly

[rigid pilot]

But then below you get another node of suppression immunity

I can take shout and take instead

[frank ether]

thats just a bandaid to make the tunnel vision ult function

[rigid pilot]

And I don't even lose points because pathing

[midnight totem]

Opening salvo should guarantee a crit or add extra damage

[frank ether]

Its kinda funny that zealot chat sells this as super duper op when they get it in passive form at all times

exe stan having discount twbs will never not be funny to me

[midnight totem]

Although, if it guarantees a crit

[misty crypt]

At some point veteran had a decreased aggro by standing still, I wish they kept it (afaik it has disappeared), it could go with this stance and then the tunnel vision effect would just go along

[midnight totem]

That will make revolvers hilarious

[frank ether]

It does some other very useful stuff though

[rigid pilot]

Infiltrate and exe should combine

[frank ether]

like big recoil/spread reduction

[misty crypt]

Stand still and light up every special and elite in the area

[rigid pilot]

And give us marksman kruber again

[midnight totem]

No

[misty crypt]

Does a revolver need to crit anyway? 😎

[rigid pilot]

Yes

[midnight totem]

Keep your filthy ranged away from my melee infiltrate vet

[tall torrent]

turret playstyle is really not to be encouraged

[frank ether]

camo hunter was removed for good reasons

[sinful swallow]

I agree don't make it turret

[rigid pilot]

Yet they added chorus and shield and MF

[misty crypt]

I like playing turret BUT the tunnel vision pushed me toward sword and revolver playstyle and I like it as well sooo won't complain much

[tall torrent]

chorus is not turret
dome shield is not turret (big enough area to move)
MF post-buff doesn't turret much either

[frank ether]

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to get at is VoC vet is cool, don't hate it, embrace it

exe dying was the best thing that could happen to vet

[sinful swallow]

VoC is too

Idk

[rigid pilot]

Good

[sinful swallow]

I end up just playing melee lol

[misty crypt]

"It's PAYTIME"

[rigid pilot]

You can run it on any vet and it's amazing

[sinful swallow]

Yeah

[rigid pilot]

Even ranged vets want shout

[frank ether]

There are few weapons where I still like to run exe with tbh its not completely worthless

you can still get value out of it, its just icky

like bolter/agrip revo boss one shot memes

or helbore 3

[sinful swallow]

Yeah I came about it because I force bolter

[frank ether]

but its just very clear build sacrifice to enable some meme weapon tech

I don't think hipfiring bolter is even worth your time without exe lol

[sinful swallow]

My ick is I have to grenade to stagger for exec monstrosity burst, VoC forces it and you just blast if gun is out already

[frank ether]

I'm a huge bolter defender here but I'll be the first to say it just feels dogwater hipfiring it on veteran

[sinful swallow]

And then no reload help means I'm manually reloading a lot lmao

[frank ether]

you get zero crits, accuracy is all over the place without exe

if you're gonna hip a bolter I'd do it on zealot

and even if bolter gets buffed, you'd still want to do it on zealot

[sinful swallow]

I only hip on monsters

[frank ether]

Its still worse than deadshot ADS critting

[tall torrent]

I downloaded creature spawner mod and first thing I did was try to fight 6 scab ragers at once with rashad

[frank ether]

unless you have exec

and like

shove the barrel into the boss's weakspot

[misty crypt]

I've tried the bolter rifle because I liked how it is designed (visually and sound) but honestly it's soooo clunky

[midnight totem]

How'd it go

[sinful swallow]

It's about burst damage

[rigid pilot]

Bolter still unloads hip fire vs bosses regardless no?

[tall torrent]

scab rager is 2.5x harder than dreg rager

[frank ether]

Which you have it worse than a zealot .d

[tall torrent]

dreg rager 1v3 is much much much easier than scab rager 1v3

[midnight totem]

Aye. You don't expect it but scabs are meaty

[misty crypt]

Dreg = half naked ones and scab = armored ones right?

[tall torrent]

I then spent 10 mins in 1v1 Rinda Karnak

Rinda's moveset is surprisingly simple

[misty crypt]

Perhaps it's just me but the armored ones I feel are slower than the others (didn't test right it's just a feeling) so I actually prefer that even if they're beefier

[sinful swallow]

I honestly have been back and forth about this a lot

[misty crypt]

As long as I can space or dance as I want I'm good

[tall torrent]

they're not beefier, they just have way more mass

most weapons don't cleave through them easily

[sinful swallow]

My bolter has surgical locked in and 25% flak maniac by default

[misty crypt]

Yeah this

[sinful swallow]

So I can free a blessing and either perk

[late hatch]

Which part? Can you no longer cleave bulwarks since they got buffed? Or the dam boost on headshots?

[frank ether]

The key thing is here is the charge zealot has made zero sacrifices to enable that bolter burst while you're on an exe stan meme build

[sinful swallow]

True

I get dopamine though deleting a highlighted gunner room

[rigid pilot]

It's untrue that Brumo is only good for unpowered swings

[frank ether]

highlight is cool

[tall torrent]

BM is for faster bruiser horde clear + easier access to 2 hit breakpoint all elites

[frank ether]

thats like the one feel good thing about exe

the highlight

[rigid pilot]

Killing 4 bruisers with 1 light is too good

[tall torrent]

BM is not for "unpowered swings"

[rigid pilot]

Sunder doesn't let you do that really

I'll just call it discount BM

[iron marten]

Sunder is good. You stagger things to death lol

[rigid pilot]

You do that regardless

[iron marten]

Esp mixed hordes in bulwarks

[late hatch]

Have you used it on a bulwark?

[rigid pilot]

Also instead of staggering things to death you just kill it

[iron marten]

Sunder allows you to continue your swings on bulwark shield

[late hatch]

Not having to play around the shield can be huge

[rigid pilot]

I'm talking about bruisers

[iron marten]

Where’s Craime video

[late hatch]

And im talking about bulwarks

[iron marten]

Well, I still use BM

[sinful swallow]

Yeah like I said earlier I really miss VoC for stagger into mag dump head, I was running kraks at one point to krak stagger > exec head

[rigid pilot]

Talking

[iron marten]

Just something to consider about with Sunder

[late hatch]

Bruisers are not a problem. Bulwark shield walls can be a big problem

[rigid pilot]

Perhaps

[tall torrent]

anyways, I've explained why u were wrong

[late hatch]

I have both. I still run my BM coz its a good roll and used to it, but sunder is not a bad blessing

[late hatch]

Eh perhaps my wording was too strong, but sunder is really good for shields

[tall torrent]

both BM and sunder are good, just different purpose

sunder doesn't dmg through shield

sunder just allows u to hit things next to shield

[rigid pilot]

But also not really because you still can't hit things behind shields

[frank ether]

I'd rather run VoC+focus mark and throw deadshot in there. Thats how I've been running bolt. The magdump on monstro is mediocre this way but you can be very ammo efficient in return and have a build thats actually pretty good instead of a one trick, I thought of making an exe version of this for hipfire focus but it just never felt good. I think I prefer agri revolver for exe boss memes a lot more.

[tall torrent]

I generally consider sunder most impactful for its ability to stagger multiple scab ragers very quickly

[late hatch]

And the problem with shields is getting boxxed in and poked by crap which is limiting your ability to move around to avoid the shield hitbox no?

Like bulwarks themselves dont kill you

[frank ether]

bulwarks aren't as bad as they used to be

[rigid pilot]

Bulwarks are trouble for sure

[late hatch]

They just tie you up and you get drowned

[sinful swallow]

I use focus mark to get ammo efficiency, I almost push a crusher 2 shot breakpoint

[rigid pilot]

But I still won't ever take sunder for Peesword for that

[tall torrent]

if ur getting boxed by multiple bulwarks surrounding u, sunder is not going to dmg any one of them through shield

[frank ether]

at least you can actually shoot at bulwarks now and actually hit them

[rigid pilot]

Because it doesn't even solve the bulwark

[frank ether]

instead of that 270 something degree shield angle

[misty crypt]

Bulwark = shield ogryns?

[frank ether]

the ones with a door sized shield yes

[misty crypt]

I like trying to slide past one with a charged attack ready but it's really for the show

[frank ether]

I tried memeing with bromentum-slaughterer on MK3

[rigid pilot]

With more HP is tougher to kill them in 1 shield open, multiply that problem by the number of bulwarks in the group

[frank ether]

bulwark is as simple as walk into it and dodge into push attack as they open up

the only problem is if they open up lol

[misty crypt]

Divide the problem by the number of surge staves+1 in the team 😂

[sinful swallow]

I appreciate the insight honestly, bolter vet is my crack in this game and I can't stop smoking it

[tall torrent]

if u haven't tried yet
VoC + Marksman is very similar in terms of headshot breakpoints as exe stance for most weapons

+20% pwr on weakspot hit for 10s

[sinful swallow]

I've messed around with that for a bit

[tall torrent]

is about as long as exe stance normally lasts without shooter highlight

maybe a bit shorter but not a big deal

[sinful swallow]

It's about the same in practice and better for the monstro matchup

[tall torrent]

yea

[sinful swallow]

I've been trying to be super generalist without giving up breakpoints

I'm so close to maintaining the crusher 2 shot without MF

[frank ether]

So focus mark's real advantage there is less about the damage you get for marking but that its nodes give a ton of passive damage aswell as stamina&toughness return, makes for a very survivable build and enables easy deadshot.

[sinful swallow]

But I feel like I end up spending too much ammo trying to maintain it

[misty crypt]

Also that should work on melee as well while if I recall correctly the stance is only for range hits

[tall torrent]

yes

marksman is very underrated

[sinful swallow]

Skill issue for sure since just lay off the m1 but focus fire 32% for team seemed like the easiest compromise

[tall torrent]

marksman + CQKZ is a ton of extra dmg for 10s

[sinful swallow]

In context of bolter though how do you maintain your stacks

[tall torrent]

I don't recommend 8 stack for FT

[frank ether]

take the other two nodes for FT

extra stacks is a trap

[lost epoch]

What enemies count for the armourbane penance?

[sinful swallow]

Any flak or carapace

[tall torrent]

anything that says flak/carapace when hit by dmg over time in meat grinder

[sinful swallow]

I've got 1 point free

[tall torrent]

this is the overall talent rating tier I have in guide WIP

[sinful swallow]

I'm at work so I can't recall exactly my tree but you can probably figure it out with exec shredder nades survivalist focus fire both stam nodes

[tall torrent]

8 stack practically only functions as subsidiary to redirect fire

it's generally rare to have all 8 stacks ready for an enemy u want to mark

unless u purposefully not tag anything

which is more detrimental

[misty crypt]

Wouldn't opening salvo make sense on a kantrael in some range builds focusing to head shot elites? I'm not aware of the breakpoints

[tall torrent]

opening salvo (talent) is one of the worst talents to include in any build

[sinful swallow]

I use it to supplement infinite ammo Deadshot hellbore

[abstract moth]

Nice i got the canisters penance

[tall torrent]

opening salvo (blessing) is ok for MG12's 1 tap breakpoints

[misty crypt]

Ah yeah I meant the weapon blessing

[sinful swallow]

Ill tag liberally unless I see crushers or a monster

[tall torrent]

but that's prob the only gun where opening salvo is genuinely not a bad choice

[tall torrent]

yea then don't take 8 stacks

[sinful swallow]

I guess in that sense I'm missing uptime on the stacks

[misty crypt]

I don't have the game in English so I still figure out the names for talents / blessing we use here but with time I'll get it lol

[abstract moth]

The translation are iffy for example flak armor to me is bullet proof armor

[sinful swallow]

I'm probably griping over potential lost monster damage and undervaluing redirect fires dmg bonus

[tall torrent]

besides meme boss dmg build, 8 stacks is basically never worth taking

[sinful swallow]

Every build is a meme boss damage build

For serious though, I'll mess around with it tomorrow and see how it feels

I don't think I'm losing any breakpoints anyways on the extra 3 stacks

I know I was really close to crusher 2 shots

In the same line of thought

[sinful swallow]

You mentioned to drop glory hunter earlier, I used to run shattering impact there for better single target damage lmao

[tall torrent]

shattering is pretty mid honestly

it only exists for crusher dmg

[sinful swallow]

It still didn't get me the 2 shot breakpoint either

If it were back to rending it'd get there

Not affecting the first shot is huge

Thanks for the info guys

My tree btw

Or what it will be when I swap to redirect

The other reason glory made sense to me was that AIC share

Actually my bad, it's shredder not krak and I take demo team

I really feel like I need every single point here

Updated since I had some wrong stuff put in but, since this is a Deadshot build at it's core, I think my weakest point is probably the 2nd .25 delay node

And I'd still be super hesitant to give it up

[last parcel]

i always used something like this for bolter. i never really liked duck and dive and just stuck with target down

[sinful swallow]

You don't miss the extra stamina or the delay from top stamina node and sprinting for refund through gunners?

[last parcel]

i find that one is enough

and i miss reload speed during exe more, but i like staying in exe

[sinful swallow]

I wish volley adept was the travel node into exec stance lol

[last parcel]

opening salvo users in shambles

[gilded wraith]

I'm sure there are some valid opening Salvo uses, but outside of shotgun special ammo, laspistol, and helbores I'm drawing a blank.

[frank basin]

lovely

professional is my standard mercenary personality

[last parcel]

i'm over here stroking my plasma i got volatile on my plasma right now. i'm just stroking my shit i'm overheated as fuck man i'm a freak man like for real

[frank basin]

look at this hot steamy plasma gun coil

so hot 🥵 and glowy

'too hot, too hot" - the professional

[abstract moth]

@sinful swallow wait you have too an rog ally?

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-woman-girl-gif-6327088205177015702

[abstract moth]

That's pretty cool, I didn't know that. I thought Cadians characters were referring to their dogma when saying for creed but I guess it's referred to that bloodline then

[muted knot]

How does it feel to know the brain rot has taken over ?

[sleek garden]

hey has anyone noticed that their game sometimes only uses half cpu

trying to figure out why it sometimes only uses half

it's annoying it cuts my fps in half

[untold pagoda]

nawwww

that saltzpyre

[ocean idol]

Goddamit i hate bursters when i play sniper build

[misty crypt]

"The crime is your foul existence, sentence IS DEATH!"

Saltz angriest leader around 🥰

Fatshark really got me with talents and classes making characters shouting badasses lines lol

[ocean idol]

I've been outvoted... AGAIN

[misty crypt]

Average imperialist feeling betrayed by democratic behavior

[sleek garden]

okay weird

its because raytracing turned on again

but my cpu usage didnt jump

at least the fps is smooth again

[misty crypt]

Ooh cool background information, I also was wondering about this line

[sleek garden]

i honestly should have checked that first like i do every time theres a performance issue

[ocean idol]

What lasgun you prefer?

[left crag]

Holy plasma bless this ravaged veteran

[misty crypt]

Revolver is laser if you believe it hard enough and it's the best laser gun around

[ocean idol]

feels wasteful on vet

since zealot can use it just as well

and psyker can use i t even better

[left crag]

i like the agile engagement on revolvers

[misty crypt]

Gunker doesn't exist in my eyes.

[left crag]

quick dispatch of elites in horde mix

[ocean idol]

ARE YOU PLEASED, VARLET

[misty crypt]

But yeah the right part of the veteran tree is cool to swap blade and revolver in the heat of the action and making sure it's always loaded

I wouldn't play 5 games in a row like this it's a bit nervous for me but that's a cool gameplay

[frank ether]

vet does amazing with revolver

you can go around nuking bosses

[untold pagoda]

hold me while i stimmed

[frank ether]

even the agripina is great on veteran

I know the popular sentiment is that its a coal gun

[ocean idol]

I play with plasma exclusively like this lol

and keep it ionfinite ammo

[misty crypt]

I've yet to test plasma gun I've to say but I don't find it esthetically appealing

I know it's strong I've seen a lot of effective veterans with it

It has infinite ammo, it works like peril?

[faint beacon]

Just went fucking flawless

feels good

[ocean idol]

the fuck wrong with you

[misty crypt]

Style is important!

[ocean idol]

is this dif 1?

[faint beacon]

Damnation Auric

[misty crypt]

I will test it but since it's ugly, I will test it late. 😂

[ocean idol]

oh ewait i am b lind

[misty crypt]

I'll soon believe I'm the only player using the block feature in this game

[faint beacon]

I'll use it occasionally

Pushing is just more useful

I block actively if im running Slab Shield on Ogryn

That or its a Rager in my face

[ocean idol]

I looked at some other number than damage and thought it was damage

[faint beacon]

Boss Damage?

[ocean idol]

i think i looked at overkill

[faint beacon]

I still have no damn clue what's considered overkilled

[ocean idol]

which revolver better on vet?

[ocean idol]

wat

it is self-explanatory

literally... overkill

AMount of damage you did to enemy at last hit above its remaining health

[faint beacon]

yes, but I'll have like lets say I 1 tap a Gunner with a shotgun and it wont record the overkill damage

[misty crypt]

I use the one with the highest per shot damage to make sure I instantly kill the special or elite I'm shooting at but I'm unaware of the breakpoints

[faint beacon]

thats mainly why

Pretty sure its the Zarona

revolver wise

though you can make the other one work

[misty crypt]

Ah yes I use zarona not the agripina

[agile forge]

Depends on what you wanna do with it but the Zarona is usually considered to be more useful for any class

[faint beacon]

You can make the Agri useful on like

[agile forge]

Zarona has amazing cleave, perfect accuracy

[misty crypt]

Agripina reloading is better but since I use the talent to reload when I kill in melee I just don't bother

[agile forge]

And more damage

[faint beacon]

if you can click on heads without aiming consider Agri

[agile forge]

Agripinaa has better dps and a better reload

[ocean idol]

probably because shotguns shoot pellets, so the pellet that kills him does very little overkill, while the rest of the pellets don't even register as hit on him

[agile forge]

Usually the revolver is a pick for a melee focused build and zarona can cut through a crowd to kill a specialist better

[faint beacon]

Probably, but I usually never payed attention thus never bothered seeing what recorded it

[sturdy zephyr]

Reconlasgun have dum dum blessing?

[misty crypt]

Oh really? I might have to try then because my gun is there to kill a specialist/elite mixed in the horde

[faint beacon]

Recons do have DumDum

[agile forge]

Zarona is a pocket plasma

[faint beacon]

Fun fact: The Zarona got nerfed forever ago

[misty crypt]

I didn't try plasma yet (I know it's strong but it visually sucks)

[faint beacon]

it was even more powerful than it currently is

[sturdy zephyr]

TTK of recon in damn are tedious. Any good blessing?

[faint beacon]

Its one of those guns you have to have a very niche and certain playstyle to make work

[misty crypt]

I slash and draw the zarona to quickly shoot a threat before slashing again, so u'd recommand I keep it or use agripina for this role?

[faint beacon]

Deadshot talent and max Stamina or 2 Stamina can shockingly do wonders with it

but you have to like juggle a shit ton of things to make it good

[sturdy zephyr]

Ahh very well. Stick to plasma then.

[faint beacon]

mainly Focus Target Keystone to actually deal damage etc

yeah its very much

Not begineer friendly even though it seems to be

if you want to make it actually viable

[sturdy zephyr]

Yes since i need more longer burst than laspistol.

[faint beacon]

I do have a recon build I stole from Sneaky that I slightly tweaked that still does wonders

if it interests you

[agile forge]

Zarona.

[sturdy zephyr]

I do tried before but biy squishy imo.

[agile forge]

If you are WS it's a no brainer imo

[misty crypt]

Ws?

[sturdy zephyr]

Weapon specialist

[misty crypt]

Ah the talents focused on using both melee and range attacks? Yes I do that

[faint beacon]

WS can be great if you see yourself actively using you melee hell of a lot more

than your primary

[ocean idol]

you suck visually

[faint beacon]

but its... an interesting Keystone

I've used plasma, I straight up do not enjoy its playstyle

[ocean idol]

i want to see it

[faint beacon]

not gonna stop me from rarely using it

I just dont use it

[faint beacon]

On it

[misty crypt]

Make sure to make ur build visually appealing

[ocean idol]

Sneaky also showed it to me, but i did not like it much, it sacrifices way too much to achieve results worse than other lasguns can do, also thinking how to adapt it

[misty crypt]

Perhaps use a filter or something

[faint beacon]

So the big things I can list.

Curios: 3 Stam
2 Stam - 1 Toughness

Melee of choice, obviously build it around your recons weakness but you can use either Infernus or DumDum, HH is mandatory

Dropping the talent tree here in a second

[misty crypt]

... I assumed "recon" rifle was some sort of long range, hard hitting gun, but I see I was absolutely wrong

[faint beacon]

Its a pocket Helgun

thats really all I can label it as

it does no damage but

my god is it funny

laying hell into a specials head

[ocean idol]

oh, you changed ult

that's a big change

[sturdy zephyr]

Thank you! Appreciate it you r build.

[faint beacon]

It works just as well as Sneaky's SHOCKINGLY

its more trying to keep yourself alive unlike her's which is literally maxxing into pure damage

which is the Exe side

aka left side

again you can tweak this however just understand

You need this one

and Focus Target keystone

Also Onslaught just cause y'know

killing Crushers is kinda needed lmao

[sturdy zephyr]

Ahh this one much different from cats. Ill give a go. Infernus sure burns.

[faint beacon]

Also these two I feel like are also mandatory

unless you want to be a team ammo vacuum

As you can see though

this gun is extremely restrictive on talents just cause its so lackluster

[agile forge]

Infantry Lasgun and Recon Lasgun should swap names imo

[sturdy zephyr]

It is i try max damage still failed to perform

Or just maybe wrong blessing ive use

[glacial onyx]

Yeah it's more of a para lasgun

[ocean idol]

way worse dps though than sneaky's

You literally kill all target types except ogryns faster with normal sniper build with infantry lasguns

[austere pine]

maybe because it's easier to just pull the trigger and unleash the torrent of bullet whenever you get ambushed during reconnaissance

[ocean idol]

oh damn, that mission got reworked

What you gotta do with the puzzle?

Find correct consequence?

[elder fiber]

highlight a circle until it turns white or red, if it turns white then click and move on

if it turns red go to another circle til you get white

[ocean idol]

On one hand infenrus does not combie well with that key stone

[ocean idol]

on another it is almost half of ranged damage

[faint beacon]

Probably consider Dumdum?

im unsure, but nonetheless this one shockingly worked well for me

[ocean idol]

define worked well

[faint beacon]

Kills thing moderately well for recon standards aka not taking half the mag or im managing to outdamage people with it

could just be how I play also

[ocean idol]

But would you not do even better with infantry lasguns?

[misty crypt]

"not taking half the mag" that goes soooo much against what I'm leaning to in this game 😂

[ocean idol]

no, it is because of ammo refund on crits

[faint beacon]

Its terrible thats mainly why

[ocean idol]

From like 20 shots you only consume 5 ammo

[misty crypt]

Ammo refund on crit is a talent or a blessing?

[faint beacon]

Talent

[ocean idol]

talent

[faint beacon]

Shocktrooper

[ocean idol]

FIRST!!111

[misty crypt]

Hmmm alright. And can the veteran pack enough crit chances to makes it viable for a revolver load out?

[ocean idol]

have you tried deathspitter?

[misty crypt]

I can't recall if there's a thing like automatic crit after X action or idk. The psyker has one

[austere pine]

for recons

[faint beacon]

I have not, but I'd figure Dumdum might be the best seeing it is on hit

[austere pine]

you get a guaranteed crit for first attack at 10 stacks of WS

[ocean idol]

WS?

[misty crypt]

Oooh I use weapon specialist so I could take it

Like after 10 melee kills my next range attack is a crit?

[ocean idol]

Don't think it is worth taking with recon

[austere pine]

literally a single crit though

recon has some blessing to increase crit chance until you hit a crit

[misty crypt]

Very nice. Would work perfectly with the revolver perhaps it's why I find I delete so easily priority targets in the middle of melee with the zarona, it's already high damages but perhaps it crits as well when I draw it. Now I have to pick the refund ammo talent

[austere pine]

and i dont think it'd be that bad if youre going for a big shoot playstyle

[ocean idol]

How many enemies does revolver cleave?

[austere pine]

many

@numbers man

[misty crypt]

I can't say for sure but I can tell in thick melee I consistently shot down specialists or elites with it

[austere pine]

at least 3

[misty crypt]

(I've the habit to jump and shoot for this because eeeh kerillian habits but still. In regular games not auric)

[iron marten]

feel like the only thing that stops a revolver bullet is carapace lol

[austere pine]

flak does stop and so does maniac and specialists

can't shoot a hole in a mauler

[ocean idol]

that's not manuy

[tropic imp]

Each melee kill gives 33.3% crit chance

On revolver you just need 1 or 2

[misty crypt]

Ooh my

Yeah that has for sure helped me in finding the zarona so powerful you permanently shoots critically then in melee with this talent

With the ammo refund I could even be way more liberal on using it instead of aiming only at high priority targets

[agile forge]

Ammo refund is only for lasers right

[misty crypt]

I assume laser pistols aren't powerful enough to one shot most of the elites and specialists right?

[agile forge]

They aren't but the good one is very spammable

And immune to suppression naturally

So you can just spam a couple of shots and kill that way

Accatran laspistol is very legit

[misty crypt]

But the ammo refund isn't as important then

[agile forge]

True, since it is very efficient anyway

It can mean you have staff psyker levels of ammo efficiency though

Every tin you don't need to pick up is one that the gunker or gun lugger can take

[misty crypt]

Hmmm true but I'd have to pick a talent solely for them which I don't feel like 😂 besides downing a specialist as fast as the zarona does at the cost of just watching my ammos only for high priority targets is important to me. Quickly downing what needs to be now is life-saving (for me or others)

Also I'll make the barrel explose near the next gunker I see.
Perhaps magic would have saved him. Eheh.

[agile forge]

I mean if you don't like playing gunker yourself that's fine but no reason to grief people that do

Zarona vet is very legit anyway

[misty crypt]

Don't mind me rant about it I'm just kidding!

[agile forge]

Yeah, I've seen people do it for real

[misty crypt]

People play whatever they feel like honestly

[agile forge]

There are some really stuck up childish people playing this game lol

[misty crypt]

I'd only have trouble with someone using a build that would be like, idk, shooting everything in sight permanently with me between him and the targets (it's fine to happen 3 4 times in a run but not all the time. Hypothetical case, didn't happen, but that's what I can picture myself being angry at)

[agile forge]

A gunker shouldn't be spending most of their time shooting

Bad gunkers are the worst psykers to group with

[misty crypt]

Especially since I often liberate the sight when I know I'm not the backline of the team so I shouldn't take many friendly shots 😂

[agile forge]

But good gunkers carry the game

[ocean idol]

eh, game is way too generous with ammo

I don't think i ever seen everyone running out of ammo

there is always a crate or bunch of big packs

[sturdy zephyr]

It is until ammo pack just fullfill like 3ammo. Cause when open a create they press E so fast. Random players of course

[ocean idol]

never seen that

but i only play auric damnation, so not a good metric

[agile forge]

Ammo is an issue in two situations

1: single player arseholes

And 2: gun lugger

[drowsy aspen]

Blessed Veteran council

I bring to you two nuggets of gold

I am unsure how to shape them

But I get the sense that both are pretty workable

[oblique totem]

Perform the appropriate summoning ritual

[drowsy aspen]

AMMO CRATE

!!!!!

AMMO CRATE

[ocean idol]

what there is to consider

[drowsy aspen]

!!!!!

[ocean idol]

Blaze away + Gets hot

[drowsy aspen]

...I don't know what makes a good plasma gun

[ocean idol]

Only thing you need

[drowsy aspen]

...Aight!

Flak or Unyielding?

instead of Infested

[ocean idol]

not sure,. check if you can one-shot flak specials and elites without

als ocarapace probably better than unyielding

[umbral garnet]

Unyielding if you want to absolutely melt bosses

Carapace if you want to reliably one shot crushers and maulers.

[drowsy aspen]

Ehhhh I think Crushers and Maulers is better

[umbral garnet]

Then you have your plasma gun!

[drowsy aspen]

Superb! Thank you very much

[sinful swallow]

Necroposting but

Orks are psychic

They're a psychic fungus and they have a warp entity that exists because their collective thoughts willed it to be, if they truly think they're stealthy they could manifest it

[frank ocean]

Yeah the power of imagination and belief

[rocky jacinth]

my favorite ork lore is how the gretchin are actually really smart and accurate shots but they're small so they get no respect and only get handed the shittiest guns

[frank ocean]

An Ork can say “we’re not out of gas, I filled it today!” And the car will just start working

People will pick up an Ork gun after a battle and it’ll just fall apart in their hands

[frank ocean]

One of my favs is that when Gretchin get promoted to the mech suits, the first thing they do is find the Gretchin that bullied them the most and squash them

[rocky jacinth]

nerd rage 🤓

[frank ocean]

Also that they refer to the Old Ones as the “Brain Boyz”

Ooh I just remembered, also Genestealers try to infiltrate Orks, but because they aren’t fighty enough, normal Orks think they’re weird and just kill them immediately

[sinful swallow]

thats a good one right there

theyre such a fun race

[rocky jacinth]

he said he doesn't drink bud light

god damn skinwalker

[frank ocean]

Theyre great, they just want to krump some ‘eads

Their color scheming is great too. Purple is the sneakiest, since when have you ever seen a purple Ork?

[rocky jacinth]

they're really just your average birmingham residents

[frank ocean]

They’re Fun guys

https://tenor.com/view/mikefoster-funguy-mikefoster-funguy-gif-26014498

[agile forge]

I liked the bit in the kart racing study the orks did

where the author's like "I PAINTED ONE OF THE KARTS PURPLE AND NOW I CAN'T FIND IT"

[balmy flume]

Wait doesn’t that mean Orks can’t actually see Heresy era Emperor’s Children (purple armour)

One has to wonder if Fulgrim’s victories are genuine, or whether he had an actual breakdown because he found out the Orks could never see his legion (thus they were playing on easy mode all along…)

[rotund shard]

Blood Angels must be insanely fast when fighting Orks then

[frank basin]

Poop Angel

When they steal poop

[wanton cargo]

I gonna mark two hellbore, and I don't know if it's a good role or not

[midnight totem]

Show us and we'll tell you

[wanton cargo]

I cannot post it

@midnight totem look in dm

[midnight totem]

Er..

[wanton cargo]

What?

[agile forge]

Grey names can't post images yet

[wanton cargo]

Ok how long do I have to wait?

[frank basin]

chat here for while and you'll get red name

[agile forge]

It's number of messages iirc

[wanton cargo]

Ok

Why not time in the vc as well (with others)

[agile forge]

Don't ask me lmao

I kinda know how it is, I have no comment on the whys of it

[misty crypt]

I found I got colored rather quickly, but if you need to share some pictures for builds or so perhaps a link to the build editor can work?

[vivid silo]

Ahhhh, getting Untouchable in a T5 HiShock with my trust Chain Axe

[misty crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/math-numbers-counted-fingers-solution-gif-15969853

[umbral scaffold]

best way to farm plasteel?

[umbral scaffold]

cool a moth!

[north raptor]

hm?

[umbral scaffold]

His screenshot

it's a giant moth

[misty crypt]

I've been told to look after idols and go in higher difficulties, ofc look out for those boxes during the run

[umbral scaffold]

alright

ty

i used up all my plasteel trying to figureo ut how to make my veteran worth playing

[midnight totem]

I mean

Shoot, shovel, grenade

[radiant chasm]

quickplay damnation, auric or normal doesn't matter whichever one you can clear easier

[gentle maple]

What does the optimal rashad axe look like? What's the dump stat, perks etc

[midnight totem]

At minimal, if you clear the screen of shooters and horde you're doing better then 70 percent of vets and are an invaluable part of the team

[radiant chasm]

the little greenskulls are a bit of plasteel as well but i wouldn't waste time looking for em if you don't spot them off the main path and just tap em

[midnight totem]

Dump stat is mobility. You can get away with lower finesse too

[gentle maple]

Cool thanks. What blessing other than bm?

[radiant chasm]

everything 80 besides mobilty, flak unarmored for veteran (flak maniac might work if you are going down deep right side melee talents, don't know for sure) brutal momentum+headtaker

[midnight totem]

You want brutal momentum, unarmored, decimator is good, the finesse on headshot kill is passable too

[radiant chasm]

lower finesse does mean less weakspot damage and less attack speed

[radiant chasm]

noooo

decimator is good yes

[bitter turtle]

headtaker

[radiant chasm]

but it is a bit unreliable on vet

[bitter turtle]

i would not use anything else other than bromentum headtaker imo

[radiant chasm]

i'd see what you enjoy more but generally on vet, you want headtaker, then maybe splash into decimator

[midnight totem]

Rashad requires a lot of things to line up perfectly, and is a hard roll

[radiant chasm]

as for decapitator? no it requires chained oneshots to ramp up, there is a niche way to play that on zealot but def not on vet

[midnight totem]

It's possible on vet

Vet has great weakspot bonuses

[radiant chasm]

in order of consistency it's headtaker (most) ->decimator -> decapitator

[radiant chasm]

we have duelist

vet wants a consistent option, and if you want to take the risk, you go deci for more risk/reward

[midnight totem]

We have melee crit 10 percent and melee finesse and 30 percent weakspot without dodging

[radiant chasm]

decap is not worth it on vet because vet struggles to hit oneshot BPs

[radiant chasm]

it literally doesn't matter xd

zealot has that and more any spot on our tree, decap is a great way to be caught with your pants down on vet with no way to ramp up any power

[bitter turtle]

in general i just struggle to see the arguemnt for anything other than headtaker on vet

[radiant chasm]

you also said you can lose some finesse which, in the case of you use decap, is even more valuable, not less

[bitter turtle]

you dont want to randomly lose your bp

and suddenly bromentum turns off

[radiant chasm]

i could see a melee focused veteran build use decimator with success

[bitter turtle]

i could see it passable

but i dont see a convincing argument for it being advantageous to do so

if that makes sense

[radiant chasm]

but in general? HT all the way, it's just consistent and vet likes consistent melee

[midnight totem]

He was asking the dump stats. Finesse is less important then damage, pene, and first target

That's a fact

[bitter turtle]

im pretty sure finesse adds more damage than damage

[midnight totem]

Is it ideal? No

[radiant chasm]

higher ceiling=easier to hit those rager/lower tier elite BPs, and forgo the need of unarmored perk for scab bruisers (hypothetically, I am not a vet expert I simply have a HT BM caxe)

[radiant chasm]

yea...

[umbral scaffold]

All the stats are meaningless

[radiant chasm]

finesse is weakspot damage and attack speed

[umbral scaffold]

Just hit things until they die

[radiant chasm]

both those are critical for rashad, the attack speed being a rare stat you can't get easily in other places+ it isn't just attack speed, it's the speed of any attack related animations making your gameplay smoother

[midnight totem]

that reminds me

I should take a look at my current rashad's stats

[bitter turtle]

last i checked

(on knife)

which has the same stat set

[umbral scaffold]

hmm well

[bitter turtle]

FT > Penetration (no uncanny) > Finesse > Damage > Penetration (uncanny stacked)

[umbral scaffold]

you have failed the emperor on lvl 3 difficulty

how is that even possible

Oh wait false alarm

it was heresy

[midnight totem]

right, here's my rashard

[tall torrent]

HT > Decimator
Decapitator is shit

[midnight totem]

I work with what I got, decimater works well enough for me and its a base tier 4

I originally had manic instead of flak, and it missed the bp on dred bruisers by just a hair

But, I use a heavy to open on those instead, run two decimater stacks, and its smooth sailing

Eviscerator MKV

[regal belfry]

is it just me or does the normal chainsword feel weak

[frank ocean]

Vet was my 2nd class after Zealot, so yes it felt weak to me lol

[midnight totem]

the normal chainsword is better then you think

but it will struggle with bruisers

and carapace

without the proper perks and blessings

[radiant chasm]

Normal chainswords have the best horde clear in the game (on zealot)

Crit weakspot kills behave like BM iirc

[tall torrent]

best vs poxers

[radiant chasm]

Also true

[tall torrent]

not so much bruisers

[radiant chasm]

Still massively underestimated weapon

[tall torrent]

but the thing with chainsword is that

it's basically hard carried by FotF in practical gameplay

which vet doesn't have access to

[tall torrent]

afaik crit on chainsword just doesn't drop the multiplier, but the base dmg is still reduced from cleave distribution

whereas BM is no dmg falloff at all for first 4 targets assuming all weakspot kills

[radiant chasm]

Vets will never know the glory of giga juicing melee weapons with fotf and martyrdom

[regal belfry]

not heavy sword or catachan sword

[radiant chasm]

Yes, chsword does, on poxies

I should have specified

we have a tested chart in zealot chat

Idk if it’s pinned

But chsword beats both those out

[tall torrent]

I'm waiting for azreal's test chart

there're some weird inconsistencies between his numbers and exhil's

[regal belfry]

i like personally to use on vet the mk7 shovel, powersword, daggers and mk4 devil claw sword

[radiant chasm]

Exhil did no talents iirc

[tall torrent]

yea even still

there's some wild discrepancy between exhil's numbers and azreal's on chainsword

[somber axle]

I tested something funny

so a while back I shared a reaction time link here and couldn't get under 200 ms

on a day off when I am rested I took the test again

reaction time almost cut in half

https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

reaction time for any Vets who want to see how fast they are

just as a funny test to see how quickly you tend to notice a threat and react to it in Darktide

but geez

work days absolutely ruin my reaction time

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1246506011557105714/image.png?ex=66648bb0&is=66633a30&hm=e573a7fb6c3474b46a985e828de63e2d8ccb1f76301a34b14aed42461aeff509&

my old value sucked

[midnight totem]

oof

mine is 220-230

I'm getting old

gone are my halcyon days of noscoping noobs in counterstrike

[somber axle]

could try again when you're more rested and feeling refreshed

how tired you are has a wild affect on your score

[midnight totem]

thats my secret

I'm always tired

https://tenor.com/view/tired-gif-26416247

[somber axle]

sounds like you need a vacation dude LOL

[frank ether]

this is gonna be skewed a lot tbh

[somber axle]

there are a lot of factors that can affect your score yeah

[regal belfry]

like being tired or intoxitated

[frank ether]

just anticipation alone is a big factor lol

[somber axle]

it's randomized each time

it's not a set time when it goes green to be clicked

[regal belfry]

^

[frank ether]

It is but you know what you're getting into

[somber axle]

but I also look at it like

in Darktide when you hear a pox hound howl and you know the nearby spawn door

[frank ether]

Its not the same thing as reacting to an instant poxhound jump that happened at a random second during your 30 minute maelstorm game

[midnight totem]

I used to play StarCraft, Counterstrike, the works. Count my APM, drink coffee and energy drinks

[somber axle]

you know what's coming and where it is likely approaching from

[umbral garnet]

The feeling I felt after finally getting a Zealot and being able to swing at the speed of light

[somber axle]

so it's testing your ability to react when the hound rounds the corner

[midnight totem]

Was not good for my health

[regal belfry]

i am around 190-215

[frank ether]

bold of you to assume it will play a sound lol

[regal belfry]

i drink a shaker of gaming fuel daily this counts as two energy drinks

[midnight totem]

Now, I rely more on experience and strategy then pure reaction speed

[somber axle]

I've had this happen in a dark spot under a bridge and since I play with brightness way low shadows are actually shadows so it jumpscared me by seeming to just materialize out of thin air LOL

it was on that map that you have a night insertion and drop down from a broken window, go through what I think is an old cathedral and then drop down onto the streets

[umbral garnet]

Throneside(?)

[somber axle]

most people go through the left path with the cathedral but we had a daemonhost spawn there so we were forced right side

I'm on point leading the squad and never hear the pox hound howl spawn noise

I'm not sure it even played

but as soon as we're moving under the bridge suddenly dog in my face in pounce animation flying out of the shadows

[regal belfry]

i stay away from normal chainsword in this game i don't like this weapon

[somber axle]

I rely on clown science, clown reaction time and clown dancing to survive

[midnight totem]

https://tenor.com/view/back-kick-attack-drunken-boxing-kung-fu-shorinji-gif-16062908

[regal belfry]

but you are a jester

[midnight totem]

you are now Drunken Boxing Cat

[somber axle]

most do not know the truth of the clown hierarchy

[frank ether]

f o o l

[somber axle]

I'm more like a fool but it's easier just to say clown

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-t-ateam-gif-5623890

[somber axle]

is this worth attempting or is the penetration too low?

[trim steppe]

Pen too low

[somber axle]

rip

[tall torrent]

Bricked

[somber axle]

at least it's just a brunt store weapon

[trim steppe]

You want it 76+ ideally

[somber axle]

I'll try for a good Rashad eventually after I've got a big amount of dockets to burn

[trim steppe]

I browsed the req shop for 3 months to find a good one, but saved millions of ordos that way lol

[umbral scaffold]

i found a trick to beating that

get a job w here you hardly have to do anything

it's uh

damn

This is the darktide server haha

[somber axle]

Yeah I had a job like that. A neat little office job where I spent most of my time just listening to spotify, watching youtube or browsing imgur

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah that's like my job

[somber axle]

But I was going insane in a tiny room

I wanted to be doing things

[umbral scaffold]

well so

[somber axle]

So now I have a very stressful job

But it pays way more so it's worth it

I'm getting paid twice what I was making at the office job

[umbral scaffold]

Oh that's good

I make enough to get by

but i get to play video games at work

and i put up with a lot of bs

[somber axle]

and with pay raises coming soon I'll be making triple in another couple years

[umbral scaffold]

because i get to p[lay video games at work

[somber axle]

more money to spend on useless cosmetics

[umbral scaffold]

Something bad happens, it gets blamed on me, coworker has a bad attitude and bad behavior, it gets blamed on me, lied to constantly, take the crap shoulders back like a clueless idiot

but ya know... i read or play video games at work. Using the time there to read a CDL manual

oh nice you wear makeup huh

cool

[somber axle]

a clown must have a clown costume

[last parcel]

i didn't know people actually browsed imgur

[umbral scaffold]

Well that's true but I don't know that analogy tbh

I'm afraid I don't get the meaning. Where are you from? I've never heard that one

[unique orchid]

i need to get me one of those

[last parcel]

the circus

[umbral scaffold]

oh nice

i feel that way sometimes too

you ever seen a clown cry?

it's fucking horrible

[somber axle]

I still kinda do to check for memes sometimes

I prefer the layout over reddit

I only glance at reddit if I need to look up some obscure bit of info because reddit somehow always has it

otherwise I ignore it

[somber axle]

Oh the saying has nothing to do with where I'm from. I call myself a clown because I like making people laugh and sometimes (intentional or unintentional) do something kinda stupid and clownish

[somber axle]

I COULD work at the Circus Circus. It's a big casino/resort here in Vegas attached to the AdventureDome. It's a fun place. But as far as I've heard not a fun place to work

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

[somber axle]

besides my current job perks are too good to embrace the clown life irl too

[somber axle]

yeah I own a mirror

[umbral scaffold]

well i thought that uh the saying may have derived some place i'm not familiar with is all

is what i meant

[somber axle]

Yeah no worries

[stuck basin]

So which weapon do you guys prefer? Combat knife or Rashad axe?

[tame lodge]

Does bleed proc Onslaught

Like every tick is one stack

?

[last parcel]

i think they patched that out a while ago

[trim steppe]

Yeah it used to but not anymore I don't think

[cerulean ridge]

as much as I like my IIa stubby, time to try something else...
what to do here? change perks to carapace&unyielding?

[trim steppe]

Rashad is way better if you can roll a good one. Knife is easier to get useable roll

[tame lodge]

Yeah I might be remembering that era

[trim steppe]

Volatile to gets hot, stamina to flak probably

[cerulean ridge]

or change this one?
i might need to farm more blessings for plasmas 🙈

[trim steppe]

This one doesn't need any changes tbh

You could switch carapace out for whatever you want and upgrade gets hot to T4

Or change GH to blaze away if you prefer

[stuck basin]

I have both, I feel the axe takes longer to kill stuff for some reason

[trim steppe]

Can you post your Rashad? It needs an exact build to be good

[tame lodge]

A decent axe should make light work of a lot of enemies

[stuck basin]

I could 2 hit crushers and maulers, but it takes multiple hit with my rashad to kill armored enemies

this is the one I got

[slow spade]

Only 550?

Trash 😎

[stuck basin]

[trim steppe]

Change decimator to headtaker. Unfortunately you have groaner damage instead of unarmored so scab bruisers you will struggle with

But goddamn what a base

[last parcel]

just busted 80% of a nut

[stuck basin]

headtaker, is it better than decimator?

they seem very similair

[trim steppe]

Yes

Headtaker doesn't drop stacks so it's more consistent

[stuck basin]

ah

[trim steppe]

But decimator does well in a pinch

[hearty panther]

Yes.

IF only ONE TARGET is bleeding.

[trim steppe]

But yeah without unarmored you miss scab bruisers 1-shot breakpoints so you take like 5x longer to kill them since you can't kill 4 with every swing

[stuck basin]

its unfortunate

but I kinda struggle with crushers more so than chaffs

[trim steppe]

Hopefully crafting update will drop and turn it into a perfect roll

Take kraks

[stuck basin]

Im very used to 2 shotting crushers with knife, it takes noticeably longet to kill them now

[slow spade]

Try Krak UwU

[stuck basin]

yea, but then I'd just use Plasma gun by that point

[trim steppe]

My Rashad takes 4 hits for crushers with no crits, 3 with a crit

[stuck basin]

I'll give it another go and see how it feels

this is my knife btw

dumb stat all went to mobility

[trim steppe]

Very nice

[hearty panther]

I take it back deffo no I forgot to account for a blessing lol

[tame lodge]

I had Serrated Blade + Uncanny+MK+Onslaught on my mind

But I just remembered that frags could have some interactions and they probably don't want that

[flint lake]

Been a hot minute since I played

Any good advice how to run a boltgun?

[trim steppe]

Use it as a sniper and don't mag dump

[flint lake]

wow really? that's wild

[somber axle]

Yeah that's what I do too

[trim steppe]

If you wanna mag dump play it on the zealot

[somber axle]

Though sometimes I use the hip fire

[flint lake]

use to mag dump all the time with 30 shots

[somber axle]

if you don't aim down sights and just tap you get a 2 shot burst

with executioner's stance active you can use that 2 shot burst to instantly stagger a bulwark by shooting into their shield

[trim steppe]

The hip fire is an "oh shit" button not an efficient way to play

[somber axle]

setting them up to shoot their head off

[flint lake]

what perks should I run?

[stuck basin]

to be honest boltguns are kinda mid now

[flint lake]

Yeah I've seen plasma really tearing it up

[trim steppe]

Check out the guide in the pins, it has all the best blessings/perks etc

[flint lake]

ty

[somber axle]

The current top weapons as far as meta goes are Plasma, Zarona Revolver and Columnus Infantry Autogun but all guns are viable for all difficulties if you're funny enough

Most consider the Recon lasguns to be bottom tier

I run them frequently in Aurics

[trim steppe]

Infantry Autogun* but yeah

[misty quest]

Do you want early onset arthritis

[somber axle]

Play whatever you find to be fun

[misty quest]

Run the mk 4 lasgun

[somber axle]

whoops! I fixed it

[somber axle]

that gun will never run out of ammo

[misty quest]

I love that thing but god damn it destroys your finger

[hearty panther]

s'alright

[somber axle]

The only true weapons to counter a team of Gunlugger Ogryns allergic to melee eating every last tin and pack across the map and still keep firing even when the Ogryns are all on red ammo and the map has not a single bullet left for anyone to pick up

Mk IV Infantry Lasgun

Helbores with Surgical + Shock Trooper

[trim steppe]

You need more resources you're getting low

[somber axle]

you can survive ammo goblins

but not with your normal weapons

[hearty panther]

i need something to spend them on

[trim steppe]

Maybe I'm just more exploratory than average but I never run into ammo issues due to goblins no matter what I run

There's always ammo around in nooks and crannies

And if you goblin first then you're good to go

[hearty panther]

i sincerely cant recall the last time i had issues with ammo

i mean, maybe my teammates had issues. i sure didnt

[trim steppe]

I had 1 mission like 4 months ago where the map just didn't provide ammo and the director was pissed. That is the only time I've had ammo issues in like a year

I think there was like 1 large pack and 4 small packs in the first 75% of the map

[somber axle]

I do a lot of exploring too but when you're in a match with ammo goblins you're not the only one sniffing every shadow and corner for an ammo tin

Being faster than the ammo goblins works but I don't have to be faster if my weapons could last an entire 30 minute match and never go dry on ammo or even come close to it while shooting my way through the whole map

[stuck basin]

i hate it when im in a game with ammo goblins that just suck up all the ammo

i was just in game with one. lvl 30+17 vet doing Auric HISTG

[bitter turtle]

suck them up first

that's right

[stuck basin]

basically sucked up all the ammo AND medicates

[somber axle]

I don't mind it if they're at least putting the ammo to good use. But more often than not the reason someone is an ammo goblin is because they're spraying their shots into poxwalkers endlessly LOL

[iron marten]

true horror is being in a lobby with bolter vets that just spray and pray

[somber axle]

If you're only prioritizing elites/specials you're probably not running into ammo issues with the usual amount of tins/packs on a map

[stuck basin]

Its much worse. He's using the revolver. Mag dumping into poxwalkers

I cant even

and he gets down as soon as he's back up

[somber axle]

People are allergic to melee and it's weird

[iron marten]

Oh you reminded me of the game where I picked up 13 ammo tins for the fan revolver…

[stuck basin]

I only got to use 1 charge of medicate, while he probably used 99% of the meds in the whole run

Like I saw him use 2 charges in a single wave of poxwalker horde. I dont even know what he's doin in T5 HISTG

[iron marten]

I’m sorry, teammates

[bitter turtle]

smh you dont pay for their sub

[somber axle]

you gave me flashbacks to the dumb FF14 healer debate all over again and WoW healers coming over being adamant about never doing damage to focus on healing while standing around doing nothing LMFAO

[stuck basin]

wow brainrot

[agile forge]

Even in WoW you don't do that nowadays

It's people who think that how you played in vanilla WoW is how you should play in every mmo ever

Only tanks pull, one pack at a time, healers only heal and save the cooldowns for dire emergencies only

Like, no, bitch, lmao

[somber axle]

Blizzard has slowly been moving healer gameplay into doing DPS between healing moments but the old WoW healing meta was save as much mana as possible for big fights and not using any offensive spells because of it

[bitter turtle]

you say that

but the chuds won anyway in xiv

[somber axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/returntodonke/status/1795904257754837210

did they?

[bitter turtle]

forced walls in every dungeon

cleric stance removal

on those 2 points in particular

[agile forge]

Dungeons get easier but tbh raids and ultimates get harder

[bitter turtle]

ultimates are harder sure

raids no

[agile forge]

DSR and TOP are by far the two hardest encounters XIV has ever done

[bitter turtle]

remember when tanks had to

[somber axle]

Classic WoW was created to let boomers play with each other and keep them from bothering other people playing the game. It's like a retirement home so you don't have to listen to your racist grandfather LOL

[bitter turtle]

position things

and in any case

ultimates just get exhausting when jobs are not fun to play

[agile forge]

BLM is fun at least

Right now anyway

[bitter turtle]

yes

[somber axle]

Ok but we all know the real end game in FF14 is glamour

[bitter turtle]

his pet class

[agile forge]

We will see in DT

[bitter turtle]

yoship

its ok

[agile forge]

I'm eyeing up PCT

[bitter turtle]

he promised us

job identity in 8.0 :^)

[somber axle]

I'm looking forward to Pictomancer tbh

[agile forge]

It might be fun regardless

[somber axle]

Most of my friends are way more into Viper

[bitter turtle]

i have 0 interest in Viper and Pict ngl

[agile forge]

You would be

[bitter turtle]

its gonna play

[agile forge]

It's the closest thing to a clown class

[somber axle]

Excuse me

Blue Mage exists

[bitter turtle]

just like all the other classes nowadays 😔

literally a carnival

@ blu

ngl

i think adding new jobs is not sustainable in the long run

continuously

in the way they're doing

not that it's a negotiable aspect of new expansions

[somber axle]

Idk they've generally been pretty good at keeping jobs relatively balanced

[bitter turtle]

but reaper and sage already pushed the limit of "same shit, new splash of paint"

not balance

[somber axle]

Ok wait huh

Sage didn't feel different compared to the other healers??

[bitter turtle]

if you played old sch

no not really

[somber axle]

I joined in Shadowbringers so I have no idea how the classes played in 1.0, ARR, HW or StB

[bitter turtle]

ah

[somber axle]

but tbh SCH and SGE are both very distinct classes

[bitter turtle]

then it might be harder to see what happened to the jobs

they were far

far far more differentiated

back in HW/SB

then people cried balance

and we have the current situation

[somber axle]

Yeah I remember people telling me old Summoner was a DoT class and there was more involved with the pet

[bitter turtle]

balance vs homogenization

[somber axle]

I was around for when the Carbuncle was more than just a funny companion that does flips when you cast spells

[bitter turtle]

but yeah

i mean healers are a fucking mess in general tbh

but yeah

[somber axle]

I main White Mage because I like going no thoughts head empty

[bitter turtle]

dont worry every single one just plays the exact same anyway

press your 1 (one) dps skill

cast ogcds to heal

[somber axle]

Psh no

[bitter turtle]

oh sorry

apply dot first

[somber axle]

Compare AST to WHM and say that

[bitter turtle]

:^)

[somber axle]

Every healer will laugh

[bitter turtle]

yes

every healer will laugh

in despair

as they have been for 2 expacs now

[somber axle]

it's not at all similar

[bitter turtle]

keep in mind

lets give one example of how AST used to be actually, actually different and unique

they were the only one with a 1.5 gcd spell

[somber axle]

AST has Card mechanics and RNG, WHM has lilies
AST is more focused on buffing and setting up things to combo in advance ahead of time
WHM is more reactive and just adjusts to the flow of combat rather than predicting anything

[bitter turtle]

so they were actually differentiated by being a mobile healer

[somber axle]

They kinda still feel mobile with that CD that gives them faster casting

Lightspeed I think?

[bitter turtle]

the cards have been butchered, reworked, the rework reworked, flipped over, turned upside down

over the years

[somber axle]

just do slide casting

ezpz

[bitter turtle]

to the point where nobody even knows what or how they should work anymore

its hollowed out

as a mechanic

the rng is gone next expac too :^)

[somber axle]

less RNG is better imo

[bitter turtle]

im just saying

these superficial differences are rather meaningless

[somber axle]

Doing silly casino games for a rotation makes it goofy LOL

Idk I wouldn't consider the difference between lilies and cards superficial

[radiant chasm]

Indeed

[somber axle]

lilies are not providing any sort of buff to the team

[bitter turtle]

every healer does in fact play by pressing 1 repeatedly, then 2 to apply dot occasionally, and using their excessive amount of ogcds to heal the extremely predictable damage

[somber axle]

cards are buffing DPS

[radiant chasm]

But it was great fun in world of warcraft bfa

[somber axle]

idk how you'd make cards vs lilies more distinct because they literally do very different things

[radiant chasm]

I would get as many rng procs as possible

And play boomchicken

[somber axle]

every class has a basic rotation yes LOL

[bitter turtle]

in practice, you save them for 2min burst window and press blood lily/card

[bitter turtle]

that's the thing
it was not always like that

[somber axle]

if your argument is to laser focus on the basic rotation and ignore all of the class mechanics around that basic rotation then sure they feel the same

[bitter turtle]

buff cds used to be 30/60/90/120

so no

[somber axle]

except they don't if you're using your full kit

[bitter turtle]

not everyone simply waited every 2 min and pressed everything

[radiant chasm]

And just hit some random schmuck leaving their friendly base with moonfire sunfire

And watching them slowly get pelted to death with proc loops

[bitter turtle]

if you are truly interested in the subject and history of the design of healers in xiv

[somber axle]

I feel as though you pushed Ultimates and got lost in the sauce so much that you've lost sight of how the classes feel outside of hyper excel sheet scenarios where you're doing a rehearsed dance on beat

[radiant chasm]

Yea but have you considered that other mmos don’t feed my crippling wow addiction

[bitter turtle]

i suggest just visiting xivdiscussion where they beat the subject to death every week

[somber axle]

I love WHM because for basic roulettes with friends I love Holy spam locking down the whole tank's pull for like 7 full seconds in AoE stun

no other healer does that

[bitter turtle]

holy is satisfying yes

but that is only applicable in roulette content

strangely

classes feel more differentiated

in dungeons

more than any other content