veteran-class

[tall torrent]

It’s basically lemonade in a way

[last parcel]

[tiny summit]

Asbestos won't ever get a figure

[bitter turtle]

I did Trials for Navigator without any buffs

I'll be fine

[iron marten]

Well… I have a vtuber avatar… so yes…

[bitter turtle]

also without mlynar

[late hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/kshyunvn-김소현-raining-land-kim-so-hyun-pocari-sweat-gif-17673408

[iron marten]

What a chad (I never attempted it and kept on farming 1-7)

[bitter turtle]

thanks, I'm a real gamer, I know

[tiny summit]

Waif

[atomic zephyr]

i think ur dog has autism

[midnight totem]

you know, its wierd. I got Ogryn Master of War without 100 games

but I couldn't get Psyker Master of War without 100 games

[last parcel]

maybe you counted wrong

[tall torrent]

Ogryn master of war is bugged

[midnight totem]

You suggest an Ogryn can count wrong?

Thats all they do in the valkryie!

[iron marten]

cute whale!

[bitter turtle]

skadeez nuts

[full nacelle]

👀

hey guys

[bitter turtle]

no Mizuki though 😔

[iron marten]

I wanted the Texas plushie but the shipping prices makes me want to die

[bitter turtle]

ya

yostar store is pretty bad

[iron marten]

[bitter turtle]

I have pot6 GG because I am easily influenced and saw namie sensei do it so I got the plush too at that point

[sinful swallow]

That's a lot of health

[tall torrent]

[sinful swallow]

So redpill me on health vs toughness and why either over all stam curios

Vet gets to pretty good base stats, but I've never really messed around with taking defense curios at all

All 3 of mine are still stam, stam regen, dockets lol

[trim steppe]

21% hp with a natty 20% gunner is 🎉

[atomic zephyr]

smoke nades w/ vraks 7 is fun but tough af

do recommend a spin sometime tho

drop smoke, pop exe stance, mow some mfs down

[last parcel]

why would i mow down marksman focus

[midnight totem]

I hate that term

But there are plenty of good reasons to take toughness or health

Veteran's relatively low base health means that toughness bypassing attacks hurt much more when they land

like mauler overheads, sniper shots, pox bursters

with health curios, you can survive a mauler overhead

[sinful swallow]

What's the breakpoint?

[midnight totem]

I don't recall, but I know I survive one with 20 hp left, and I have two 20 hp curios

[sinful swallow]

So 170ish then

[late hatch]

If you have iron will up and use your ways to regen toughness effectively you can survive anything

[sinful swallow]

So a 21% can carry on it's own theoretically

[midnight totem]

toughness curios, of course play into vet's naturally high toughness, and the more you have, the better it goes with our best toughness damage reduction skill, iron will

which is better for tanking lots of shotgunner/gunner/shooter fire

I personally run two health, 1 stamina on my melee vet builds

[sinful swallow]

I honestly haven't struggled beyond iron will+a few nodes you have to take anyways, really interested by 1 hp curio making maulers tankable though

[midnight totem]

swap out the health for toughness on my rmore ranged focus builds

[sinful swallow]

Games too stuttery for me to never get clipped

[spark acorn]

Need a SAN check, this definitely isn't worth the Melkbucks, right?

[midnight totem]

sorry, here it is I think

187.5/225

A mauler overhead will deal 187.5 damage if you're blocking

225 if you're not

I think*

[sinful swallow]

Check the mobility with inspect

If it has the dodge I honestly would grab it because slaught/head makes it good horde clear if you really want to use a chax and you can swap the perks

I don't recall if 51 or over 51 is the breakpoint for dodge

[tall torrent]

If you have nothing better and you rly want to play with chainaxe this is not a bad entry point

[sinful swallow]

Appreciated, knowledge is POWER

[tall torrent]

Unblockable, 300 dmg with fully melee spillover

[spark acorn]

4 dodge is the max for chainaxes?

[tall torrent]

You can’t really survive a mauler overhead with more health curios unless u get >325

Which veteran cannot

[midnight totem]

thats wierd, I know I've survived a raw overhead at least once

[tall torrent]

The extra health is for sniper & burster

[midnight totem]

and I'm not talking about with yellow toughness

[tall torrent]

Enough TDR can prevent it

[sinful swallow]

What's crusher damage?

[tall torrent]

It does 2x toughness dmg

[tall torrent]

Lemme check

[sinful swallow]

Ok so half your toughness and that's it's damage block before modified by tdr right?

We can get some real damage calculations for eHP

[tall torrent]

Ok so

[sinful swallow]

I know snipers do 10x toughness

[tall torrent]

Crusher overhead is 416 dmg, 2x toughness dmg multiplier, melee spillover

Unblockable

Mauler overhead is 300 dmg, 2x toughness dmg multiplier, melee spillover

Melee spillover means that if it manages to break your toughness, it’ll inflict full dmg on health as if you had 0 toughness to mitigate its dmg

And even if you manage to absorb all the dmg with toughness, you’d still lose 25% of max health as bleedthrough

You don’t actually survive the attack by blocking

[sinful swallow]

Wait so it's all or nothing?

[tall torrent]

U survive it by having enough TDR that toughness eats all the dmg so u only lose 25% health

[sinful swallow]

You can't say

Have 200 toughness 201 hp and live with 1 hp?

[tall torrent]

No

[sinful swallow]

WACK

[tall torrent]

If it breaks ur toughness it deals full dmg to health

Same thing goes for sniper & burster

[sinful swallow]

OKOK so

[tall torrent]

Those are full spillover, not melee spillover

They don’t have the 25% health loss added

They just deal full dmg if they break ur toughness

[sinful swallow]

Average tdr then for vet is what assuming like

Iron will, survivalist shredder pathinf

[tall torrent]

Avg TDR would be

[midnight totem]

I'd assume just iron will lol

at base

[tall torrent]

Close order drill at full coherency x0.67

Iron will at >75% toughness x0.5

5% TDR node above VoC x0.95

So total x0.31825

Close to 70% TDR

If you take a mauler overhead under these conditions

You need 191+ toughness

To not go down

[sinful swallow]

Hmmm

So no curios I'm at 140

[tall torrent]

191+ toughness is not easily achievable unless u have >1 toughness curio or take both +25 toughness nodes

If u have 140 you have to take 2 toughness curios

[sinful swallow]

Giving up 2 curios for it seems excessive

[tall torrent]

I’d say having sniper & burster defense breakpoints are more important than a niche mauler defense breakpoint that only works when you’re at max coherency

Burster does 100 non-standard dmg with 10x toughness dmg multiplier and full spillover

If you have <200 health, you go down if you get hit by 2 bursters

Sniper does 122.5 Dmg with 10x toughness dmg multiplier and full spillover

You can tank sniper shot with toughness entirely but it requires very specific build and still has TDR talent conditionals attached that it’s usually not worth going for

With a single 20% sniper resist u cut their dmg down to 98

So u need >196 health to not go down in 2 shots

[atomic zephyr]

man i get my ass kicked if i dont have shout

[north raptor]

hooray for numbers cat!

[trim steppe]

It is a decent one and it comes with a desirable T4 you could always strip if you find better. I'd pick it up

[tall torrent]

I’ll revamp the defense breakpoint section in guide once my reports are done

[sinful swallow]

Speaking of defense

Not having the yellow toughness from shout with iron will

That's a TON of lost ehp

[sinful swallow]

Vet version of ogrynomicon would be nice

With the branding and stuff

Call it the guards field guide or something

[atomic zephyr]

yeah I’m really really feeling it
i feel like I’m crippling myself with smoke and exe stance since I have basically no crowd control

[atomic zephyr]

infantryman’s uplifting primer

it’s right there

[tall torrent]

Idk why u guys wanted me to name it infantryman’s uplifting primer

[sinful swallow]

IUP reads awfully close to IUD to me lmao

[atomic zephyr]

just call it the primer

avoids the acronym entirely lmao

[tall torrent]

I wanted to name it smth related to schola progenium

[atomic zephyr]

hmm
doesn’t really fit the guard thing tho, besides the commissars

[tall torrent]

Scions come from schola progenium

DT veterans basically power scale at that level

[atomic zephyr]

do they count as imperial guard? or are they inquisitorial troops

[atomic zephyr]

true

[tall torrent]

Maybe a bit higher

The avg scion does not 1v1 plague ogryn and win

[sinful swallow]

Plasma vet kinda warps power level entirely on it's own

[tall torrent]

Maybe I’ll name it smth like

The Emperor’s Hammer

Smth like that

Cuz the imperial guard is “hammer of the emperor”

[sinful swallow]

How about the Pommel

[atomic zephyr]

oh that kinda fucks

[sinful swallow]

Gotta get a grip on the basics before you smash

[last parcel]

we shall end the heretics rightly

[tall torrent]

Hammer of the Emperor?

[atomic zephyr]

The Guardsman’s Second Best Friend
a mouthful but funny

[midnight totem]

The Retired Reject's Infantryman Primer

[atomic zephyr]

ya

[atomic zephyr]

the first best friend being ammunition

[sinful swallow]

I've been forcing myself to use exec stance a lot lately

[tall torrent]

Ok

“Hammer of the Emperor” it is

[sinful swallow]

I've been trying to find new ways to push bolter and it negates draw time, as long as you can make space to reload you're pretty set

[left crag]

one-shotting 2x crushers with revolver and infiltrate is pretty bonkers

[bitter turtle]

GSBF

Genestealer's Best Friend 🤔

[tall torrent]

Jean-Steeler

[left crag]

[tall torrent]

I’d call a 70+ page guide anything but basic

[sinful swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/thief-ferret-white-gif-5436497

Stolen jeans

Thanks tenor for always being close but never what you're actually looking for

[sinful swallow]

Fair enough LMAO

[left crag]

it's the thought that counts

[atomic zephyr]

I’ve been using it with helbores primarily, it feels good until some thing hits me from behind
I hate feeling reliant on someone to back me up, mostly because I don’t usually get backup and just die lol

[midnight totem]

I hope we get some Voidsmen outfits one day

[tall torrent]

I hope we get some proper military looking heavy armor battlegear soon

[midnight totem]

Look at this magnificent bastard

[elder fiber]

I hope we get a literal trash bag for zealots

[midnight totem]

that seems redundant Sarah

[sturdy zephyr]

Heavy bolter

[sinful swallow]

Heavy weapons for vet would be cool

[sinful swallow]

Hellbore is another neat use case for pushing breakpoints, I get not wanting to rely on other people either

It's EUPHORIC to insta whip out bolter and start one shotting everything sans mauler and crushers but I'm built to chase 2 shot breakpoints on maulers

Here's to hoping bolt pistol isn't dogwater

[atomic zephyr]

idc if bolt pistol is useless im using it anyway

i have a veteran sergeant build using the mk x laspistol and often think to myself “damn, i wish this thing had more punch to it”

and I don’t like using my instant win plasma gun lmao

[sinful swallow]

Exactly

I probably have a nearly identical set up ready to go

1.5m dockets and 25k plasteel ready to go too

[sturdy zephyr]

sire melk being generous todays deal

[hallow parrot]

so I was carrying pure toughness from when I was trying to do on overwatch and it's quickly dawning on me that my survivability is trash as soon as I get a dent in my toughness

+1 wound and +health with some extra toughness thrown in there and maybe ability CD?

[radiant chasm]

Don’t bother taking wounds just take an HP

[hallow parrot]

I just got bonked twice in a hi int heresy mission, was thinking maybe an extra wound wouldn't be out of place just as an insurance

[terse idol]

+1 wound ain't bad if you're like

Not that confident, (And sane)

[radiant chasm]

On my vet curios i have 2x tough, 1x hp for major perks, then 3x tough, 3x hp, 1 sniper resist so i dont get insta downed when im less than half, then 2 stam regen

[terse idol]

It's perfectly okay to run 1 wound

[hallow parrot]

though of course if you have a strong enough outer layer you don't have to worry about the ones behind it too much

[radiant chasm]

It’s a training wheel or bumpers you don’t need

[terse idol]

Like I don't think many people will be comfortable enough running not 1

hmmm

Yeah

They aare

[radiant chasm]

Going down first wound and dying

[terse idol]

But for folks that ain't comfortable +1 wound ain't bad

[tall torrent]

it's most likely gonna be mid

[radiant chasm]

A single HP does more and frankly you should rip the bandaid and get used to having the halved hp bar

[tall torrent]

learn how to minimize dmg taken by managing block & dodge effectively

[radiant chasm]

Also combat ability regen is kinda meh even if you dont take cdr, and useless if you do take cdr

[hallow parrot]

I mean yeah but

well I just wanted to get a temperature for what's the go-tos. I don't really need to go mega meta crazy

[tall torrent]

u should be striving to take double digit dmg or even lower across an entire mission if possible

[radiant chasm]

You can block 360 and if you get your muscle memory down you can swap block on the sound wue

[tall torrent]

that's what I'm saying

u shouldn't fold immediately because ur toughness went down by 20%

[hallow parrot]

I mean not immediately but here for instance I got pinched and cornered 'cause that can happen when the director's just barfing on you

at least to me. I haven't gone ultra instinct yet

not that I really want to tbh

[tall torrent]

what melee did u have

[hallow parrot]

power sword

the uhh mk6

[tall torrent]

best tip for playing PS6 is to never back urself into a corner

the moment ur forces to go on defense your killing momentum is lost

[hallow parrot]

so extra CD worth it? I mean, assuming you're in a situation where you want to be spamming it

[tall torrent]

u won't have enough dodges to break out of that corner

[sturdy zephyr]

Good tip.

[tall torrent]

I use these

u shouldn't back urself into a corner 99% of the time but it's especially bad for PS6

[hallow parrot]

in carnival I mean at the very end you are cornered

[tall torrent]

no?

[radiant chasm]

You do the math and decide

[hallow parrot]

somewhat. I mean. But you stay on that passage thingy

[tall torrent]

u camp the checkpoint entrance near the 2 crate spawns

it's not being cornered

[radiant chasm]

Frankly, it usually isn’t

[tall torrent]

u have plenty of space to work with

[radiant chasm]

Even the longest cds aren’t majorly shortened with the ability regen curios 3x

Better to just grab the cdr on elite/special kill and chain uses together

[tall torrent]

3x 4% CDR is ok

not best use of curio slots imo but it's alr

tac awareness is usually enough on its own

[hallow parrot]

yeah I feel like my CD is alright but ynow, was wondering

are the percentages in curios additive?

well not that it makes a whole lot of difference but

[radiant chasm]

resistances are multiplicative

Aka diminishing returns

[hallow parrot]

right

[radiant chasm]

All else is additive

Iirc

[hallow parrot]

so 3x cooldown on curios is about 4 seconds off the main CD and about an extra 0.6 on elite kill (not even sure if that applies)

[radiant chasm]

But yea even the longest cd you have 45 seconds augmented shout. 12% curio take off about… 5 seconds? That isn’t much compared to gunner or sniper resist, or stam regen

[radiant chasm]

It does not

[hallow parrot]

d'aw

[radiant chasm]

Also yea basically stam and toughness regen only work on the standard regen, IE coherency toughness regen for yourself

Not from any talents or anything

[tall torrent]

No

Tac awareness is -6s per specialist kill

It doesn’t get affected from CDR

3x 4% CDR just cuts your cooldown from 30s to 26.4s

[hallow parrot]

yeah I assumed the +12% extra cd would also apply to that but apparently it doesn't

yeah yeah

[hollow ibex]

that's... awful

[hallow parrot]

it is

then again it's not like my curios are the embodiment of efficiency either so hey

might give them a whirl and see just for funsies

[rigid pilot]

Get revive speed and other stuff

I've been adding gunner resist and it's nice and comfortable

[hallow parrot]

yeah even +tou or +hp secondaries would be more useful ngl

gunner resist would also be a good pick that's a good point.

hate it when one gets me in the open

[rigid pilot]

Three +toughness is already similar to a whole curio

Gunner resist makes me more willing to trade fire and be more brave against gunners/reapers

[hallow parrot]

yeah +1 wound 2x+hp and then add the toughness secondary and then sniper, gunner annd... stam regeneration?

[rigid pilot]

Would be cool if it worked against shotgunners too though

I would skip the wound too

[hallow parrot]

or maybe flamer resist too, I mean not that they give me a whole lot of trouble but it'd be nice

[rigid pilot]

Stam regen is nice

[hallow parrot]

yeah I dunno, I think I'll run one extra wound just so I don't become dead weight the second something bonks me

I'll swap it out later or smth

[hallow parrot]

it's important that the stock is foldable you see

very compact

[last parcel]

+2 Concealment

[hallow parrot]

I love this mod and it absolutely boggles my mind why this isn't in the game if weapons are built modularly like that.

it almost feels illegal

Yeah I read that. And it would make sense not to build an exquisite modular weapon system you can play with, but like, here we are.

like this shouldn't be here but it is and I love it

[rocky jacinth]

I wish I could use the mod but it leaks memory like a sieve

And bugs out flashlights, it's way too bloated

[hallow parrot]

I haven't had many ram problems but I'll run a check while playing, maybe there was a leak but it's fixed now

the flashlights, honestly, I could take it or leave it. I like that it's there but I run either the stock light or one that's very similar

but being able to build your gun down to the sights is just like 500% more meaningful and fun than character customization

[rocky jacinth]

Yeah I love it, makes the lack of official customization feel even more disappointing

[hallow parrot]

you can even have several of the same gun and just give them their own lil personality

[rocky jacinth]

I want a long bolter with a stock

[hallow parrot]

and more foregrip options wouldn't be terrible

so you can build your lil space mp5s

[rocky jacinth]

It's just that the mod does all this other stuff like modify recoil, add new animations, mess around with the lights and a bunch of other stuff and you can't disable all of it

I'd just want the visual changes

[hallow parrot]

oh it also does that? lmao

I had no idea

the battery system for lights I thought is a very fun detail

[rocky jacinth]

I suppose, I think it's silly that you'd have flashlights that run out of power when you have a lasgun that takes a million times more energy to fire one shot that it'd take for the light to stay on for a year

[hallow parrot]

I mean in general flashlights in DT are like kinda

alt fires in ranged weapons in general, unless there's a good one I'm not thinking of

[frank ether]

closest thing you have is the shredder autopistol lol

man I wish the autopistol was good

like, not revolver good, just usable good

[somber axle]

Yeah but like the Darktide teaser trailer and the intro show off the Moebian Recon squad moving in and one of the guardsmen in that squad had a malfunctioning flashlight. Often times people attribute failing lights with an upset machine spirit more than a dying battery

Slap the gun and suddenly the light starts working

Spirit has been disciplined

Spirit is functioning briefly until it chooses to return to ruining your vision

[frank ether]

maso spirit

[last parcel]

spirit spanked

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-darktide-warhammer-40k-warhammer-40k-darktide-gif-18220354036388236931

I love the timing of the flashlight going out on the teaser trailer because it feels like the machine spirit in the flashlight saw it and was like "oh FUCK you don't want to see that guys"

probably helped them get away because in the intro they've managed to flee from the poxwalkers

idiot with the flashlight was putting light right into them and could've alerted them if he kept shining in their faces

as fun as game time chewing through hordes can be

this 100% felt like it could've been a horror game LMFAO

[last parcel]

hadron horror

[frank ether]

I've been blueballing hadron

[somber axle]

you're right it's still a horror game

just in a different direction

[hallow parrot]

it definitely has a horror vibe to it

I mean warhammer generally does

we don't usually think about it because lol empruh

[little path]

They managed to flee from the poxwalkers but still died to the chaos spawn

[sturdy zephyr]

lightout one of kind i hate/love

[little path]

and amazingly the chaos spawn left their bodies intact enought to be hung up during the plague tree mission

[tough tiger]

+75% draw and reload time, +50% rending

[cyan anchor]

anyone have a picture of a build tree for veteran backstab bleed knife

[hallow parrot]

makes flashlights relevant, which I like

but you spend like half the mission shining your light at the ceiling anyway lol

[sturdy zephyr]

Right?it really helpful.

[hallow parrot]

man I'm torn between the graia and the agri IAG

both I like, both I can run comfortably, both feel great

and neither has dumdum because the omnissiah is testing me

I think I like the agri better 'cause it's mostly as versatile, just better long range

[sturdy zephyr]

I trouble hitting long range with ciag.laspistol much better but dmg falloff quite big.

[grand perch]

is this just a gut feeling or does the ilas mg4 actually get less accuracy penalty from being suppressed?

feels like i have less spread, both visually and mechanically, than with other weapons

as in, im still able to hit shit pretty well

[rigid pilot]

Laspistol feels horrible vs far snipers

[agile forge]

I'm running a 1a grenadier build atm with FT and VoC

wondering if I should take the suppression immunity talent

any thoughts?

[hallow parrot]

I personally don't run it but the more heresy I run, the more tempted I feel to get it

getting focused on by a gunner isn't fun

[paper geode]

Anyone know which enemies count for Armourbane? Is it just Maulers and Crushers?

[finite carbon]

Anything with flak. Scab gunners, scab ragers, even the little non-elite scab bruisers

[paper geode]

cool!

[finite carbon]

And Carapace of course, like maulers and crushers

[night talon]

Yeah, if it has any armour, it counts

[hallow parrot]

man, like, yeah, devil's claw swords might be ass against armored enemies but

opening up on a horde with one is 😙 👌

[hallow parrot]

omg

after so many tries hadron gets me this straight from grey

[rocky jacinth]

oh no that sounds horrible

[hallow parrot]

not stellar but like damn, for once the omnissiah smiles upon me

[drowsy aspen]

Fellow Veterans

I am newly to level 30

What guns should I be investing in to really pop off as a vet?

[umbral scaffold]

PLASMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[hallow parrot]

I mean if you want the vet experience then yeah, plasma, bolters

[drowsy aspen]

...I did try an actual good plasma gun on regular damnation earlier

[hallow parrot]

I go for stupid high reload speed IAGs

[drowsy aspen]

Was very fun

IAG?

[hallow parrot]

but that's hardly unique

infantry autoguns

[drowsy aspen]

Ahh yea yea

...what's the best lasgun?

[torpid grotto]

plasma is probably the single most OP weapon in the game

[umbral scaffold]

true true

[vivid silo]

Revolver and Columnus give it a good run for its money, depending on the circumstances

[drowsy aspen]

...idk, is plasma really that OP?

[umbral scaffold]

best gun ever

[drowsy aspen]

Thus far I have not felt it is stronger than the Ogryn heavy stubber

But the Ogryn also has a really strong shooting ability to pair with it

...I shouldn't doubt the vet experts

[hallow parrot]

I believe in stubber supremacy

[vivid silo]

The offensive potential with Plasma and Executioners Stance is flat out silly

But you do lose the easymode Voice of Command to keep you safe

Revolver is slightly better for when you are focusing on your melee weapon primarily in my opinion

But Columnus can also melt any enemy in the game, depending on your build

The primary reasons I don't run Plasma + Exe stance is that it feels cheap because it's so easy compared to what I've been used to (I've used the Plasma since back when 99/100 people deemed it trash) and that I fear it takes away from the fun of my teammates

Because they literally won't see enemies (elite/special) because I'm killing them through the walls

[hallow parrot]

lol

[torpid grotto]

i hate seeing a plasma vet kill a bulwark through the shield

this dude isnt even playing the same game..

😭

[drowsy aspen]

Ahhh man it's kinda fun though

I run flame PBB on ogryn and it can do the same thing

It's so fun to kill a bulwark without even engaging it dude

[rocky jacinth]

ngl I feel like columnus is almost more cheap than plasma

[drowsy aspen]

...I mean it's just a damage gun, right?

Cheap damage

Nothing technical to it

Just brrrrr

[rocky jacinth]

when you end up with more kills than the rest of your team combined for just spraying into elite packs at head level

[drowsy aspen]

...oh wow, that cracked?

[rocky jacinth]

2 shotting ragers with a 57rd mag and 900rpm ain't normal

[hallow parrot]

yeah but columnus has trouble at range

you can dome an elite with a plasma, with a columnus you're going to waste half a mag to get to a sniper

also plasma is unique to vet if you care about that

though the reload speed you can get with a veteran is hilarious and it makes IAGs so much more effective

[rocky jacinth]

Haven't had that experience, the thing is pretty accurate and snipers have paper hp

You can single tap pretty nicely

[hallow parrot]

yeah I dunno if I've ever mentioned I'm shit at the game

[rocky jacinth]

Gotta have that 80 stab though (or close to it)

[hallow parrot]

prolly that helps a heap too

[frank ocean]

To be fair, Columnus also has a pretty nasty initial recoil

[hallow parrot]

I finally managed to land a godroll(ish) agri but I'll experiment with the other IAGs.

[rocky jacinth]

I like Agri too, the piercing makes up for the damage loss in many cases

[hallow parrot]

I 've been messing around with deadshot, I guess the agri is better for it than the other two

not sure if deadshot applies if your stamina is depleted

[frank ocean]

It doesn’t

[rocky jacinth]

It doesn't

[hallow parrot]

right, figures

[frank ocean]

So automatics will insta drain it lol

[hallow parrot]

figured it'd be useful for tapping long range threats

can headshot pretty reliably with an agri

[sturdy zephyr]

Agra mk1 semi auto?

Ciag is good but likewise for sniping im not that good with ciag.

[frank ocean]

You have to get used to the recoil of it by aiming super low if you’re doing long shots

It pretty much evens out the recoil after firing for a second, at which point you can basically point where you want and it stays there

[sturdy zephyr]

Yeah. Since im back end player vet so mid range also kinda half of mag for one kill .

Gunner can engage like really far too.

[rocky jacinth]

just gotta get used to controlling that recoil, and again don't dump stability it's way more important than damage

also if you have trash mobility try to stay still because it affects accuracy while moving and it's a multiplier

if you run a MF build you'll overkill so hard from the buff that you can cross map 1 tap shooters

[sturdy zephyr]

Your correct i think i move too much without noticing accuracy drops

[rocky jacinth]

pretend you're playing counter strike

[sturdy zephyr]

I cant agree more. Thank ypu again

[hollow warren]

great stats, but overall this is bricked, right?

[odd wind]

why hadron whyyyy

[candid agate]

can i save this or nah?

[hallow parrot]

I'd swap fire frenzy for dumdum and infested for flak and I'd be a happy camper

[next light]

You could swap carapace for maniac and speedload for dumdum but the rolls are kinda scuffed too

I'd still be looking for another one

[candid agate]

i just got a 378 one that hadron just destroyed man

i cant wait for this crafting update

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/ae912868e64f03f02d7e72c57f0e7fdb.jpg

[next light]

Don't hold your breath on that one

[bitter turtle]

I gotchu covered

[hallow parrot]

you squeeze the bolts so they go faster

[steep nexus]

I want a long las :(

[hallow parrot]

you could probably get up to some shenanigans with the weapon configuration mod

[steep nexus]

I have no idea what this is tbh

[hallow parrot]

aesthetic only but hey

[frank ocean]

Hotshot Lasguns when?

[candid agate]

never

[rocky jacinth]

the first target is bad but you can turn this into a crit machine if you swap out ruthless

[rocky jacinth]

that's what i'm talking about babyyy

[serene bough]

not completely unredeemable if you swap ruthless w/ uncanny

otherwise if you just want a T4 blessing take riposte

[junior needle]

very much so yes

[junior needle]

Agreed, crit chance is technically fine and riposte is good.

[rocky jacinth]

with precog or flesh tearer over ruthless it would be an ascended tier zealot knife

[junior needle]

You want uncanny on zealot too

Probably more than vet due to a lack of general rending sources

[rocky jacinth]

my zealot already 2 shots crushers without uncanny

[junior needle]

Fascinating, what are you running for that

[rocky jacinth]

finesse and pen are a hell of a drug

just crit talents and duellist

[junior needle]

Duellist is borked with additional sources of crit/weakspot damage atm

And giving you much higher damage than you should be getting

[rocky jacinth]

yeah that's what i'm saying shit is CRACKED

[junior needle]

It is, I don't path down for duelist on stealth knife though

[rocky jacinth]

[junior needle]

So if I were going critfishing with flesh tearer I'd still want uncanny

Because it affects bleeds

If you're gonna leverage the giga damage from precog/duellist then flesh tearer becomes pretty redundant

[rocky jacinth]

i think i said it before but having the bleed to finish off enemies you crit even if they don't die immediately is actually fantastic

like

not crushers and such, just normal mobs

tapping a gunner and just running is great

[junior needle]

That's fair, I assumed we were talking either precog or flesh tearer here

[rocky jacinth]

never stop, sting like a bee

[junior needle]

But you could theoretically run both if you replace riposte

[rocky jacinth]

sure but riposte is also really good

[junior needle]

Indeed

[rocky jacinth]

the perks are workable so i think you could turn it into a template knife, just swap both blessings and keep it around

try everything and see what's fun

[hallow parrot]

there's this whole side to veteran that I haven't touched which is weird because with the other classes I messed around with skills a whole lot

[rocky jacinth]

@odd wind i mean

[hallow parrot]

but with veteran it feels like it's either VoC, or just bonkers movement shooter backstab vroom vroom infiltrate

I settled on this tree and I can do minor tweaks to it and try this node or the other, which is something I don't feel like makes a huge difference on the other classes, but on the other hand there's not much use in going volley fire

and if you go infiltrate you go all in on that shit

not that VoC isn't incredibly useful mind you, it is

[rocky jacinth]

That's kind of what makes me keep playing Vet, the other classes have a lot of really jank shit that I hate but on Vet everything feels fun to some extent

Like... Smite

or Martyrdom

[hallow parrot]

I haven't gone super deep into the meta honestly. I can't even remember what I ran on psyker or zealot

but I remember I had fun

and dome psykers in heresy are bae

smite psykers too, like I get that people don't like them 'cause they "slow down" hordes, I really like when they zap an entire room

[rocky jacinth]

I'd be more accepting of sm*ters if more of them actually played the game instead of joining just to get carried

Call me toxic but when I see a smite psyker cornering himself with 2 ragers I just let nature take its course

[hallow parrot]

yeesh, nah I think I'm staying agripinaa

[finite carbon]

How would a national geographic episode look like of Darktide players?

[potent iris]

here we see the Ogryn in his natural habitat, blocking the veteran

[hallow parrot]

lmao

[rocky jacinth]

Here we see a common Gunlugger in the process of performing one of the deadliest, most dangerous activities they frequently partake in, reloading their stubber.

[potent iris]

over yonder we see the psyker smiting the same group of poxwalkers for 30 seconds instead of simply killing them, the zealot has already ran ahead and triggered the daemonhost before promptly leaving the game

[hallow parrot]

ugh my sides 💀

I'm too old to laugh this much

[potent iris]

none of them realise what's about to happen, the veteran's shitty recon lasgun will not save them despite his best efforts to pretend it's a good gun

[hallow parrot]

recon lasgun did nothing wrong

[frank monolith]

huh i see them using it on a single dreg bruiser

[rocky jacinth]

What's this, here? A rare Veteran Crab, slowly crawling his way across the dunes.

[potent iris]

the psyker, seeing the situation deteriorating knows that he must stop smiting and do something useful

instead, he will explode

the young veteran, poised to strike, activates his executioner stance only to cancel out of it on accident...he must learn from this quickly or he will perish like the many before him

[rocky jacinth]

Oh, a poxburster! These dangerous mammals often lead to the death of less attentive parties. Let's see how our group of four deal with this new threat.

"QUAIL HERETICS!"

...oh dear.

[hallow parrot]

ah fuck me man I almost feel bad for the other class channels

missing out big time

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[tiny summit]

Critical weakspot or bust

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[thick kestrel]

aye, the upside is that it's actual effect is pretty strong but you need to be building to chase the crits to get it.

combined with surgical or headhunter in most cases

[rocky jacinth]

deadly accurate is worth it, the weapons you can use it on usually aren't

[unreal bone]

I thought today was shop reset day

is it not?

[slow spade]

I wish Helbore could get Deadly Accurate

Bayonet + Deadly Accurate UwU

[midnight totem]

They said it would be a little delayed

[slow spade]

Next week

[hallow parrot]

idk about terrifying barrage

I guess it'd be nice to handle close hordes but fire frenzy is probably a better blessing?

on an agri IAG

[rocky jacinth]

it's not very useful seeing as you can't suppress poxwalkers

maybe you can with the blessing but i don't remember it working

you can get keep their heads down easy for the +50% and it's really strong, and you don't give up a blessing slot

[junior needle]

Terrifying barrage is absolute dog

Easily the worst blessing on any weapon it's on

Almost everything except gunners, shooters, and the reaper is immune to suppression.

The only exception is groaners, which are very resistant.

It also suppresses enemies in an area centered around you. But not as a guarantee, it just adds a flat amount of suppression.

For IAG blessings you want dumdum and then your second slot is flexible and doesn't matter that much. The salvo blessings are comparatively better on the agri but worse on the ciag.

[hallow parrot]

sustained fire huh

I just happened to get one with it

I'm just not sure how all those percentages come out in practice, figured at least being able to suppress when fighting a horde would be the most consistent effect

also sustained fire works better with bursts and I'm lazy

but yeah on a decent agri you shouldn't need a whole lot of sustained fire at any rate

[vernal sundial]

what are yalls go to curio perks? i have stam regen on all 3, but im torn on what to put on the others
running a melee focused shout build, btw

[midnight totem]

Health, toughness, gunner, sniper resist, corruption resist

[sturdy zephyr]

1hp 2x toughness

[midnight totem]

I also take one toughness regen speed just to top off while moving in coherency

[sturdy zephyr]

Or 1stam

Since your melee. Thats my curios for my melee.

[vernal sundial]

im def taking gunner resist, tho im not sure how many

[midnight totem]

One is good

[sturdy zephyr]

One or 2 especialy high tensity shock troop

[midnight totem]

Unless you really hate gunners

[hallow parrot]

2x hp, 1 wound, 3x toughness, sniper and gunner resist, stam regen

[midnight totem]

Which, to be fair, understandable

[hallow parrot]

lol sorry didn't mean to reply to you

[midnight totem]

Lol its okay

[slow spade]

3x wounds 💪💪💪

[analog mural]

Ah yes, martyrdom vet

[junior needle]

It suppresses in an 8m~ area around you (a relatively short distance) when you kill an enemy within that distance. And the vast majority of enemies that will be in that range at any given moment are either outright immune or severely unbothered by it.

For practical reasons it's nearly useless unless you're simply appearing in groups of shooters with stealth

At which point suppressing them can actually make them more difficult to clean up because they'll run away instead of switching to melee.

[hallow parrot]

yeah I guess sustained fire is the go to particularly on an agri which can take better advantage of that 20%

it's about half a shot extra worth of damage in a 4 shot volley which, eh

[uncut token]

Gotta say, they did the rifleman ai in this well, really behave like a well trained firing squad, never seen a game where the rifleman type enemies were such a nuisance if you don’t give them the proper credence

[hallow parrot]

when they focus you down they can be p annoying

[junior needle]

Dumdum is much better than it seems btw

It works like zealots anoint in blood

[slow spade]

They fix DumDum solely so they can nerf Recon again

[uncut token]

What’s the actual run down on dum dum? Why is it so good? Especially on more medium range stuff I thought close was 8m or something do you have to be right in the hordes or run up on stuff for it to be useful? Or is it doing something unintended?

[slow spade]

Essentially, Its bugged to have a very large radius instead of 8m

20m or something like that

[uncut token]

Ah, makes sense, I figured that it had to be something like that otherwise it wouldn’t be nearly as useful as it’s made out to be

[slow spade]

Actually I don't think it has a range

[slow spade]

Don't worry, once Fatshark realizes its part of the Recon meta they'll fix it

[tall torrent]

200 health allows u to tank 2 sniper/burster hits and not go down

[silk nexus]

Rashad or achylus for combat axe

[junior needle]

It gives a tapering damage boost that decreases from 8m to 30m, and is active essentially all the time.

It's also not bugged by all indications

[radiant chasm]

Rashad or antax

[junior needle]

"Close range damage" has been normalized across various blessings and talents to work like that now

[silver vigil]

the new cosmetics out yet ?

[junior needle]

Close range is 7-8m, close range damage is different

[silk nexus]

1pm AEST

iirc

5pm CET

about 30 mins

[severe gale]

i dont think dumdum tapers?

its just additional damage stacks for anything within 15 meters

[radiant chasm]

30% damage boost at 8m so good

[junior needle]

It should unless fatshark has goofed something since I last played.

[tall torrent]

been changed

[severe gale]

ohh

nvm then lol

[onyx veldt]

Man, this On overwatch penance is giving me a hard time, always the sneaky little hit coming out of nowhere lol

[radiant chasm]

How i did it is i got a build that swaps fast, you can block 360 so swap blocking when you hear the sound que helps a lot. Between that, stealth and one free melee hit it becomes a lot more forgiving

[unique orchid]

low intensity malice mission, jobs a goodun if not a little bit a snoozefest

[hallow parrot]

I did it yesterday and yeah I feel your pain

I stacked toughness curios and VoC'd like a mofo

[onyx veldt]

Yeah i should go for a stealth build on low intensity, I'm not healping myself the way I'm playing rn

[hallow parrot]

if you have enough toughness, you get a couple grace hits before it deals health damage

[onyx veldt]

it works ?

[hallow parrot]

pretty sure

[bitter turtle]

1 hit

only

its base don % or remaining toughness

[hallow parrot]

like I did a crapton of tries, and I'm pretty sure I got scuffed on the winning run

didn't shy of going melee for the sake of the penance

[unique orchid]

for some reason toughness works as a percent-based reduction for health damage in melee

[hallow parrot]

yeah but at launch you'd always get health damage on a melee hit iirc

[unique orchid]

so if you're full-up on toughness you take 100% less damage from melee to your health (IE, a freebie)

[hallow parrot]

it's been a while so I dunno

[hallow parrot]

even counting the over-toughness from VoC?

[bitter turtle]

yellow toughness cannot take helath dmg

period

so that is irrelevant to this conversation

that is why poxbursters dont dmg through yellow

even though they theoretically should based on their mechanic and numbers

[hallow parrot]

I mean if you can't take health damage while on over-toughness it's kinda relevant to on overwatch

[bitter turtle]

im saying

that it has nothign to do with the mechanic of how much hp dmg you take through toughness

[hallow parrot]

yeah it's not relevant to the vanilla behavior of toughness on melee hits, I gotchu

[bitter turtle]

you can stack 0 toughness and it doesnt matter

yellow will always make you immune

[radiant chasm]

Overhealth blocks all damage, white toughness will get bled through by melee if below 100%

[bitter turtle]

in fact, stacking toughness basically is meaningless for on overwatch

in normal circumstances you have 1 grace hit and that's it, doesnt matter how much you stack

and under yellow, you're just immune

[hallow parrot]

I remember it was kinda more severe at launch though no?

[bitter turtle]

things were bugged at launch yes

idr exactly how, it was a long time ago

[white minnow]

yeah anyone with over 100 flat toughness had a bug

[hallow parrot]

people kept calling the fact that damage bled through toughness a "bug".

[white minnow]

oh right

it was 90% melee bleedthrough protection maximum at launch

[bitter turtle]

wasnt it that it always bled through even at 100

[hallow parrot]

never change, steam forums

[bitter turtle]

i forgot

yeah

[white minnow]

so it was 10% melee bleedthrough even at 100% toughness

[hallow parrot]

I think you always took health damage even if you were at 100% and then they made the first hit "free" yeah

[unique orchid]

basically

[white minnow]

oh and i guess that's also a time when everyone had just recently played the tutorial

where bleedthrough doesn't exist

[bitter turtle]

cant believe they nerfed bleed through and fire >:(

so the CASUALS can play

jk

[white minnow]

well-done enjoyers taking losses

[silk nexus]

okay got a 377 base rashad II axe

for blessings im thinking Brutal momentum and head taker

[bitter turtle]

yes

[silk nexus]

what about perks

[bitter turtle]

unarmored + flak/carapace

[silk nexus]

flak and carapace or something

gotcha

[tall torrent]

I actually think

[bitter turtle]

unarmored is necessary

[tall torrent]

+2 stam is not a bad perk for knife

[bitter turtle]

well

i think its probably fine yeah

[tall torrent]

It saves u the need for a +3 stam curio

[bitter turtle]

i think knife doesnt really care about perks that much

[silk nexus]

i do notice i tend to 1 chop the chaff

with light attacks even

[tall torrent]

So I’d prob go +elite and +2 stam for knife

Honestly

[bitter turtle]

i still go cara elite

meme crusher 2 shot

[tall torrent]

The thing is

[silk nexus]

im gonna have to grind to unlock the level 4's

[tall torrent]

I figured

It’s pretty hard to get to >200 health

If I take 1 stam curio

And still want decent toughness

[silk nexus]

i was so dumb and recycled a lot of stuff rather than getting the blessings for like my first 100 hours

[hallow parrot]

hadron moment

[dreamy spade]

Trying out recon lasgun (it's still trash)

Also, I had survivalist and shock trooper and completely ate through all the ammo

and fully loaded

[hallow parrot]

yeah shock trooper isn't amazing

did you have the +crit blessing?

not that I feel it helps a lot but

also jesus christ that's elite central

[tall torrent]

It’s essential to recon lasguns

[hallow parrot]

I know, I just swapped it in and out and didn't seem to make a huge difference on my ammo economy

then again it wasn't the exact same mission so there's a lot of variance

there's probably a scoreboard mod that keeps track of shots and accuracy

[hearty panther]

ive legit never ran shocktroop on mine, idk where the notion it's essential comes from

[terse idol]

I mean since the shocktrooper changes it's like

Way better

Especially for recon

[uncut token]

What was it before?

[tall torrent]

Assuming ur avg crit chance is 18% on recon lasgun (5% veteran base + 3% recon base + 2 stacks headhunter IV being 10%)

Recon has a crit string of 2, so its practical crit chance would be 2/[2-1+(1/18%)] = 0.305

That’s basically +30.5% total ammo

[hearty panther]

weird way to quantify crit

[slow spade]

If you don't use shocktrooper on Recon of all things...

[hearty panther]

just say 5 + 5 (tree) + 3 (gun)

[uncut token]

Crit string?

[terse idol]

Iirc shocktrooper had a longer cooldown so you would get less ammo back on a recon

[bitter turtle]

no

it was

[feral cave]

Was just wondering: which Sapper Shovel is considered better?

[bitter turtle]

applies to whole crit string -> (nerf) apply only to first shot -> (buff again) same as before

[white minnow]

basically it's a mechanic where, if a crit is rolled, the next few shots also crit

[uncut token]

Neato

[terse idol]

Well for automatic weapons

[white minnow]

crit string of 2 means that, if a crit is rolled, the triggering shot and the next shot will be a crit

[uncut token]

Thank you for the info

[white minnow]

the formula that numbers cat posted translates the per-shot crit chance into your effective crit chance when factoring in the crit string mechanic

[uncut token]

Gotcha

[hearty panther]

cause ya you can juice a lot of extra ammo out of it (which is consequently damage)

but imo thats just sinking way too many points into just your gun

[steep nexus]

I sink all of my points into my gun B)

[hearty panther]

recon especially is not trying to replace infantry autoguns

its just a shredder that pews instead of pows

[tall torrent]

The formula is (crit string length)/[(crit string length) -1 +(1/crit chance)]

[rocky jacinth]

at least one +3 stam curio, stamina regen and sprint efficiency on everything

[hearty panther]

i dont scoreboard but id wager less than 20% of my kills are the recon itself when i run it

[tall torrent]

For effective crit chance

[rocky jacinth]

[white minnow]

a handwavy derivation of the formula

[feral cave]

I noticed that the Mk7 Sapper- the blue one- has a different swing than the overhead on the Mk3. Does that make it worse at onme-shjotting?

[steep nexus]

Well, most kills are going to be melee just by virtue of melee being the best at killing the hordes of regular dudes

[hearty panther]

oh yeah hordes

[feral cave]

I remember someone mentioning ages ago that you can one-shot Maulers with the Sapper shovel.

[hearty panther]

So probably 10% then

[tall torrent]

No, same dmg
Mk7 is usually better than mk3

[hearty panther]

Idk that seems too low now

they really gave the mk7 the best everything >.>

[feral cave]

How so?

[steep nexus]

Probably higher due to rooms full of tons of ranged enemies

[tall torrent]

Better moveset & horde clear speed

[feral cave]

I see!

In that case, is this salvageable at all?

[tall torrent]

All or nothing -> uncanny strike
Groaners -> carapace

[feral cave]

Ok, ty!

I'll work on trying to get a better version of that.

[tall torrent]

It’s not perfect by any means but it’s usable if u don’t have anything better

[feral cave]

I do. Sorta.

[steep nexus]

Darktide crafting system moment 😔

[feral cave]

Eh, it does great work!

[somber axle]

If you use something wrong you can get low kills with anything. No Shock Trooper or Survivalist Aura on a Recon? Might as well ignore Precision Strikes on Infantry Lasguns too if we wanna make meme builds that help weapons perform at their worst

[somber axle]

Tbh though the ranged weapon is often for elites/specials. Unless you're unloading into poxwalkers, your melee should have the majority of your kills for a general match with exception to squads with outstanding crowd clear members like some really good Purgatus Psykers clearing hordes so effectively you worry about them less

I'd argue a Recon used correctly should have more kills than most other weapons because it is also meant for clearing ranged enemy trash. Non-Elite Shooters. The ones that Plasma and Revolver don't want to spend time shooting if they can help it because going from one room full of non-elite shooters to the next room of non-elite shooters using exclusively either of those guns is burning ammo

Recons are like Infantry Lasguns in that they are very good for clearing ranged trash while still being solid for anti-special and anti-elite duty

Just not as high DPS/TTK as some other weapons

Lots of people love seeing their names in the kill feed for every hound and mutie that runs through but someone keeping the ranged heat off the team is a real star in my eyes

Playing Ogryn made me hate big, wide rooms of ranged elites and ranged non-elites

Ogryn is very tricky to make break dance across a room vs other classes

Dodge slide at slug speed toward enemy gun lines or just bring a Gorgonum and do the job no one else can be bothered to do

[urban steppe]

its on sale now ? *

[woeful ibex]

@urban steppe Yes

other skins

[urban steppe]

zealot old one and psyker too

[somber axle]

THE VOX PACK IS BACK??

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1153279327513886770/1245755208575746058/1361210_20240531000539_1.png?ex=6659e772&is=665895f2&hm=d8a6eae798e4c0fa492643ea34548c5203f9f88f776b0bc652e02fcb2777ef4b&

but it is CADIA this time

[plush oracle]

Yeap

[last parcel]

CADIA STANDS ON ME

[somber axle]

oh hey my fav boltgun skin is on sale again

can't wait to see more people using it

love love love that boltgun skin

[urban steppe]

backpack looks good

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-cat-sad-cat-me-when-i-dont-get-orod-tickets-gif-13399313231964052110

crying for my bank account because it's cosmetic rotation day

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/kobeni-kobeni-higashiyama-higashiyama-kobeni-csm-kidneys-gif-27275335

[woeful ibex]

Yeah

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-the-unicorn-they-took-my-kidney-gif-3533765

[midnight totem]

It's alright

That's why we have two

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/all-mine-funky-duck-moonchildmemes-duck-meme-gif-21845859

[last parcel]

bro got a boner during a presentation 💀

[sleek garden]

I feel like this is more the purpose of the lasguns and infantry autoguns

really spiky headshot damage

In most cases you can 1-2 shot gunners/shotgunners

[oblique totem]

I can't think up of a snarky comeback.

[urban steppe]

can i get like this screen for other classes too ?

👀

[full nova]

Real

[full nova]

Damn

All ass this week

[urban steppe]

that ogryn implant creppy jesus

[oblique totem]

I guess next drop will be better

[urban steppe]

and i like a zealot shrift band

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/frank-horrigan-fallout-nv-fallout-girlboss-gif-23931371

[urban steppe]

ofc new update come soon and there will be 100% better new cosmetic

than again recolors

[chilly cobalt]

Oh no not the kasrkin cosmetics...

[last parcel]

she kasr my kin until i hotshot lasgun

[somber axle]

someone else posted it here!

[somber axle]

follow this reply

unless you meant the full pages

[oblique totem]

One day we'll get something to make running a zealot worth it.

[gilded wraith]

Onslaught or dead shot branch for Columnus?

[bitter turtle]

depends

want more dps or want to meme kill crushers

also

you always go left

no matter what

but the question is dropping a keystone for onslaught or not

that or just have no melee talents

[gilded wraith]

Kinda of what I'm running into. I do like ranged crusher deletion, but krak can achieve that.

I run a bit melee heavy with rashad.

[bitter turtle]

imo

and this is just imo

this is what id do

sec

[somber axle]

idk that armour looks really nice

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/337fb91336619138f62a6ec3fce7fcb6.png

no keystone

but

that's just imo

you can drop shredders into smokes or krak and take wep specialist instead if you want

i dont like playing rashad with no attackspeed though

[unique orchid]

im playing with a psyker that has the auric maelstrom medal thing and his name is "Worst-Space-Wizard"
what a chad

[terse idol]

That armours helmet has a voice modulator

And if you can find the breastplate looking armour bits it looks pretty gooood

[oblique totem]

I know some zealots look good, but I prefer more veteran like looks.

[terse idol]

The elysian drop troop armour for zealot with the helmet with the rebreather and purity seal is the closest you got

[bronze atlas]

i pulled the dueling sword back out for untouchable/on overwatch, why did i ever like the mk4 lmao
it was crafted back in the ancient days so it sucks too but idk if i care to make a new one

[terse idol]

Since uh, you can very well just make em look like a vet

[gilded wraith]

Looks great, I'll give it a shot.

[terse idol]

Honestly I'm jealous I couldn't put it on my vet

[full nova]

Magic? What’s that?

https://tenor.com/view/lever-action-rifle-gun-black-and-white-vintage-gif-17843896

[somber axle]

We're playing Vermintide in Darktide now boys

[full nova]

Chainsaord aint Vermintide

Banned for spreading misinformation

[somber axle]

how am I going to show a Zealot without a chain weapon

[oblique totem]

A catch-22

[somber axle]

ok knife is sexy too I guess

[full nova]

Hammer

[oblique totem]

Vermintide look, but also chain weapon.

[full nova]

https://tenor.com/view/reinhardt-overwatch-slam-hammer-gif-16154010

[somber axle]

I do that for my clown costume

[oblique totem]

A shame there isn't an inflatable hammer skin, huh?

[somber axle]

I've also got a costume that makes people think I'm a Veteran

[last parcel]

musroom emoji

[oblique totem]

[midnight totem]

dang, wish the set came in black

I think this looks good though

[tall torrent]

Happy with this one

[hearty panther]

It's not about using or building it right/wrong necessarily. I'm very much relaying my own experience with the gun in that it isn't represented in most of my outcomes. So in my eyes putting a talent point into Shocktrooper + extra talent points or blessings into juicing it is sort of a waste/lopsided when I take that outcome into consideration.

But like, thinking on it generally, probably most of my ranged weapons are in the 10-30% category in terms of my scoreboard/use outcomes.

[rocky jacinth]

If you care, this is what I'm running on Columnus right now

With crits you can kill Crushers in a pinch with all the damage you do

[onyx veldt]

On overwatch penance DONE HAHA ! The beneficent Emperor protects !

[dreamy spade]

Why does everyone pick "catch a breath" over "get back in the fight"

Later is better

[tall torrent]

Because catch a breath is better most of the time

[dreamy spade]

There's always a groaner behind you

[rocky jacinth]

You can just use either or, they're both pretty good

[tall torrent]

You need to get toughness broken to get value out of GBITF

Getting toughness broken by a single groaner that spawned behind u is kind of insane

[rocky jacinth]

I'm not sure if Catch a Breath works with Born Leader but it sure works with Tunnel Vision

[tall torrent]

It does

[rocky jacinth]

So it's a good pick

[tall torrent]

Because CaB is not coherency related

It’s toughness gain, not toughness regen

[rocky jacinth]

right on

[hearty panther]

catch a breath is also one of very few toughness nodes that works when there's nothing around

which is a big benefit tbh

[tall torrent]

It regens ur toughness regardless of coherency

[hearty panther]

if youre clutching as last man and youre between fights its a lifesafer

[tall torrent]

When it’s not working (enemies within 8m of u), you’re likely already engaged in melee so you have melee 5% toughness active

It’s just better most of the time

I can think of maybe 3 times out of the last 10 games where I actually got toughness broken by bs and 2 of them were by BoN tail whip

[somber axle]

It absolutely is about building it right or wrong when it comes to Recons specifically. This is not a category of weapon you can run whatever you want and do fine with. The guns are not in a state similar to Plasma or Revolver where you can do whatever you want and still see a good outcome. Even if you're good with Recons you're not going to do good with Recons if you're not using the right blessings, perks and talent set up

If your experience with the gun is that it isn't giving you the kill potential you're expecting, and you're not using the talents that help it achieve that potential, that's not entirely on the weapon

You're choosing to run a set up that doesn't work for the gun at that point to enhance your other weapon instead

If you want to save talent points for more utility or to make your melee feel better that's a choice that comes at the expense of talents that make the gun perform better

Part of the issue is the gun not being properly balanced in its current state to the point it requires so much talent investment to reach an ok state where someone can actually make use of it to a degree that isn't just hoping someone carries them

Like you can take a grey columnus infantry autogun with an empty talent tree and still shoot down specials and elites like nothing

You can't do that with recons

The clown shoes need the bells to jingle when you dance or it just isn't a proper clown dance

[midnight totem]

I like that quote

[last parcel]

i got spurs

[somber axle]

that jingle jangle jingle

https://tenor.com/view/fnv-spurs-spurs-that-jingle-jangle-jingle-jangle-fallout-gif-12219280912482242004

[stable scaffold]

Bloodborne 2 and remaster in just 4 hours

[alpine vessel]

Bro what

[rocky jacinth]

where's the copiogryn emote

[bitter turtle]

Kobeni is cute

Would give her my kidneys if she asked

[steep nexus]

Don’t let this guy around mentally unstable women

[oblique totem]

I'll say it. Kobeni is mid.
At best.

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/live-kobeni-reaction-kobeni-higashiyama-higashiyama-kobeni-kobeni-higashiyama-gif-16776544117166267462

[oblique totem]

And I'm being nice.

[wanton dawn]

She lost to a car

She lost to HER car

[oblique totem]

I rest my case

[midnight totem]

Most people would lose to their car in a fight

[tame lodge]

That's very in character

[wanton dawn]

I would win by no show

[candid agate]

if i take the wheels off the car would i win

[tame lodge]

If you ever fought your car, would you lose?

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/street-fighter-chun-li-sf2-street-fighter2-car-bonus-game-gif-17396758

[midnight totem]

[steep nexus]

Nah, I'd win

[dreamy spade]

windows defender please protect me

[hearty panther]

I think we're conflating maximizing a weapon's potential and simply reaching effective play, cause I'm more talking about the latter. You don't have to ultra-juice a Recon for it to work for you at any difficulty level. You do if you are trying to make it compete with something as busted as a Columnus. But you don't 'need' to run a Columnus or Columnus-adjacent weapons to succeed, you only need to have enough capacity as a player to use the tools you have appropriately and to correct effect (so, anything goes basically).

Also sorry I think we're having this conversation broken up over our work breaks so the flow is fukken awkward lmao

Cause ya for me there's no reason to spend extra maximizing the Recon when I could instead spend those talent points on something universal or melee focused instead. I don't have ammo issues with it either so, again, that notion of Shocktrooper being 'mandatory' is silly to me.

Like Deadshot is never gonna be a pick for me cause Reciprocity already reaches the same effect but does so globally and without a stamina drain to boot.

[somber axle]

I'm not sure even I'm using a Recon to the maximum potential tbh since I tend to forgo Dum Dum in Favour of Headhunter and Infernus

Technically the highest possible DPS would be pairing Dum Dum and Infernus but I prefer Headhunter because the extra crits pair well with Deadshot to improve synergy with Infernus and Shock Trooper

[hearty panther]

Really I think my only 'musts' for Recon is Onslaught and in my personal opinion Agile Engagement

I'm probably forgetting something but that's really all I use lol

[somber axle]

I'm not pushing it to the absolute higher possible damage it can go at all times either because I'm going down the route with Confirmed Kill for the extra +1 stam to give it more leeway on Deadshot vs going left side with Longshot for increased DPS

I'm chasing what is comfy while performing at the level of optimal I enjoy

[hearty panther]

Longshot is kinda ehhhh. Well it depends if you're posting up and shooting with it, which I think you do.

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper is just one of those things that are absolutely necessary for Recons because the Recon Mk VIIa consumes 2 ammo per shot and without Shock Trooper your clip vanishes FAST

The Recon Mk VId fire rate is so high that without Shock Trooper the clip disappears quick

[hearty panther]

In my case it's not super appropriate since I'm using it in sub 20m ranges, and only further if the dude is literally shooting from somewhere inaccessible lol

[somber axle]

Shock Trooper isn't just for ammo economy

it's also for ammo efficiency

[last parcel]

recon bayonet

[somber axle]

it lets you fire more shots per clip and get more damage between reloads

that's extra damage

[hearty panther]

hell yea a bayonet

[somber axle]

not just in the manner of having more shots overall, but having more shots for each volley

[hearty panther]

yea but again, i dont run into any ammo issues with it

[somber axle]

you're misunderstanding my point though

it's not just about ammo conservation long term

it's about stretching a clip to shoot longer between reloads

[hearty panther]

no i get you, it extends the clip

[somber axle]

if you can output more shots into a target, it's objectively more damage

if you have to pause more often for reloading, it's less damage

this is how I can kill a Crusher in 7 ammo used

without Shock Trooper that's probably consuming 20-30 ammo

[hearty panther]

but i dont run out of ammo and it reloads in less than two seconds, so its not a roadblock i experience to the point where i think i need extra talent points dedicated to stretching it out

ill just dump the 40 rounds into the crusher and still be fine

(Mostly i just dont shoot em tho)

[somber axle]

it's an important talent for stretching ammo conservation if it is your primary weapon for engagements and on anything other than poxwalkers and bosses I tend to lean into my Recon

Non-Elite shooter clearing, specials, elites, disablers, especially Crushers

My Recon is my end all be all weapon and I really only swap to my melee if I'm low on ammo because ammo goblins are rampant, or if I have poxwalkers in my face and don't want to backpedal WoW hunter style

[rocky jacinth]

ok what about dumdum + headhunter for mk7a

[somber axle]

I'm also not generally a fan of Reciprocity because it's theoretical value is immense but maintaining the stacks for crit chance in practice is not something that's generally available unless you're standing next to poxwalkers and purposely ignoring them to bait their melee and maintain Reciprocity during fights

[rocky jacinth]

i do that all the time with columnus

[somber axle]

Like

[rocky jacinth]

tears through maulers so good

[somber axle]

If you have max stacks of Reciprocity

You're literally just breaking even on Deadshot crit chance increase

and you're not able to get that on demand

you're never going to be able to start a fight with 5 stacks unless you ended the last fight with 5 stacks and can get into a dodge right after

Deadshot is stamina management and an extra resource to keep an eye on so I can 100% understand why someone would choose not to go with it

because if you're not careful you burn your whole stamina bar dry and now you have no stamina to shove a poxburster

For fast firing automatic weapons it's basically impossible to use unless you use at least 2 stamina curios

Reciprocity is just passively rewarding you for doing what you are already doing

Deadshot is something that you need to more actively watch and adapt to depending on the flow of a fight

Also no worries about the conversation being broken up work flow wise

I'm starting work in 2 hours and need to start getting ready soon

[somber axle]

Yeah for the VIIa that's the optimal blessing pairing

Infernus isn't as good for the VIIa because the fire rate is so slow

Stacking it up to max isn't as fast as a Mk II or Mk VId

plus the higher damage per shot benefits it more with Dum Dum

[midnight totem]

Reciprocity is for melee

[somber axle]

I use the Mk VId with the highest fire rate because I love laser vomit

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-doctor-rainbow-vomit-gif-15176649

[midnight totem]

More crits with my melee, yes yes

[rocky jacinth]

you can still dodge melee attacks with a gun

[somber axle]

purposely leave 1-2 poxwalkers behind you and just keep dodging to maintain Reciprocity stacks during a fight

LMFAO

[rocky jacinth]

it works, i ain't going to let ANYBODY talk shit about reciprocity, that shit is S tier

[midnight totem]

Me running up to a sniper and smashing him with my revolver's special over and over again