veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

the whole single/automatic thing was a goalpost shift

[wanton dawn]

I dont care about surv in a vacuum. I care that it reinforced the meta

[elder fiber]

the arguments gonna be so sick when survivalist gets removed

[terse idol]

Hell yeah

[wanton dawn]

Everyone would prefer that

Hi azreal

A pleasure

[slender turtle]

Please do so then we can get something better at this point and the argument will just be dead

[terse idol]

I dunno

[dreamy spade]

Oh so even bolt guns primary function has been beaten by a cowboy lol

[wanton dawn]

I might be unironically responsible for sunder rise

[terse idol]

I think you've had plenty of arguments to convince ya that surv nerf isn't that bad

Was it, lazy?

[bitter turtle]

just run c&k if you think its useless

[terse idol]

Sure

It's just not bad

[bitter turtle]

honestly if we ignore the surrounding nodes its prob still the best aura in a vacuum anyway

[wanton dawn]

Objectively though ? Surv got obliterated number wise

[slender turtle]

Its pretty bad for some weapons still. But im not gonna skew some builds just because i dont like it. Its still makes my builds work

[bitter turtle]

it did

[terse idol]

For sure

It got oblitetated

[bitter turtle]

but that just shows how fucking obscene it was before

[terse idol]

(But it certainly needed to get obliterated)

[wanton dawn]

And again, the problem is that gun that needed it got no compensation this patch

[terse idol]

Half the day you were saying that survivalist is useless

Like heah

It'll make most guns still ammo positive

You're still gonna run it on well

[bitter turtle]

theres only two guns that are really suffering from it and im p sure fatshark just hates them

[terse idol]

Most builds

Boltgun got nerfed for no reason

[bitter turtle]

nothing else explains their situation

[terse idol]

While the pgun still does its job better besides boss killing

[dreamy spade]

I liked survivalist because it scaled with difficulty, on auric malestrom, you all have empty guns by the time you reach the next resupply depot but Survivalist would resupply because of the shit tonne of specialists

[dawn garnet]

what is volley fire?

[wanton dawn]

Recon ( ), bolter, shredder ( ), shotgun, most brauto, most iag...

[dawn garnet]

like i just jeep shooting?

[bitter turtle]

the basic ability

[wanton dawn]

Aka the poopoo meta

[bitter turtle]

bolter still does fine

[dawn garnet]

so remove all points?

[bitter turtle]

same with iag/brautos

[wanton dawn]

Previous patch i would have said my bolter build was as strong as plasma on some maelstrom

I would not say that now

[dreamy spade]

Never was

[bitter turtle]

i rly dont think it was ever as good as plasma but

[wanton dawn]

Sniper fog

[bitter turtle]

i meant recently

[wraith flare]

Thats a funny joke, u got another one?

[agile forge]

tied with shredder imo

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, i have a gameplay video

[agile forge]

and both for the same reason

Shredder had much better flexibility (although vet got really good use out of bolter in particular)

(since vet ignored most of the clunk)

[pseudo fiber]

No executioners stance also counts

[somber axle]

I couldn't remember when I said that and I checked it to find it was on 4/20 day LMFAO

[pseudo fiber]

I know you're asking about the penance

[dawn garnet]

thank

[somber axle]

but also thank you for explanation

[bitter turtle]

idk

dmr bolter is still perfectly playable and fine on ammo

ive tried multiple games post surv nerf

never had a problem

[somber axle]

100 mission penance on a class is so grindy and painful

I do love weird builds exploring the absolute limitations of what is possible even if not at all likely in a real match

[white minnow]

the good ol' days of 0 ammo picked up bolter monstro maelstroms

[dreamy spade]

Back when I didn't have to worry about ammo😞

[pseudo fiber]

Orthus Offensive

[somber axle]

Karnak Twins on repeat might make me throw myself off a ledge tbh

[wanton dawn]

On full hp spawn it was still a pronlem tbf

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-frew-up-pomni-the-amazing-digital-circus-pomni-puke-frew-gif-17558847118305844907

I'm in love with playing my Ogryn because Tauntgryn is magical

but wow I have to run 32 more missions to get this last penance

and it is pain

[white minnow]

as in ammo economy?

[pseudo fiber]

with ogryn you only gotta do 75 for master at war dw

[white minnow]

i always ran +75% ogryn damage so i had no problems with that

[bitter turtle]

dont they look desperate brother if only we could make this last you never change sister always playing with your food there's no flavor without sport

[somber axle]

oh ok it is only 75

that's good to know

[wanton dawn]

As in, boss did not proc surv. On 2-3 back to back boss you could have problem

[somber axle]

still gonna grind my face into the streets of Atoma pushing 100 on my Ogryn before I go back to Vet full time

[bitter turtle]

i got 4500 but didnt finish all the ogry ones

as in

gone bowling

tried for days

[white minnow]

yeah though that was also back in the world of +40% reserve ammo

i had plenty of reserve ammo even if multiple bosses spawned consecutively

[somber axle]

the 5k heavy kills one suuuuucked

[bitter turtle]

i hope you took off bleed for that one

[wanton dawn]

Am talking full life one though

Back when (weakened) was a suggestion

[bitter turtle]

nah its fine

i already hit 4500

[white minnow]

yeah and i straight up had 0 ammo picked up monster maelstrrom games with bolter

it was just not a problem for me

[bitter turtle]

i tried in a few places but idk where to do it best

[pseudo fiber]

end of smelter

[bitter turtle]

tried

got 50

😔

[terse idol]

I can't tell if this is a joke

[pseudo fiber]

high intensity?

[bitter turtle]

yes

[terse idol]

Please, be joking

[bitter turtle]

maybe just a skill issue

i hate ogryn charge anyway

[wanton dawn]

Well, i remember some bullcrap 2 cspawn 1 plogryn with 32k and 36k hp including nurgle blessing

[bitter turtle]

i pretend taunt is voc

aoe stagger

lowkey i think fotf is stronger but both need a nerf imo

i mostly play infiltrate though anyway

voc is pretty boring

[wanton dawn]

Voc is easier to get build diversity with

[bitter turtle]

well, that is mostly because of the god pathing on it

[wanton dawn]

Which is part of why it is so strong

[bitter turtle]

i mention this before but even if you go full right side (smoke, c&k)

its still more point efficient

to switch to voc

than take infil

which is just

cause you prob need to take 2 subnode on infil to make it competitive with voc and then you have to take demo team later to make up for not having stockpile

[hollow ibex]

infil is balanced by the point taxes

[grand perch]

left = precision strikes, extra ammo, superiority complex

= want

[bitter turtle]

even if you only take 1 subnode it just breaks even

despite lane switching

[wanton dawn]

He was talking about middle tree

[grand perch]

?

[bitter turtle]

he prob means early on in the tree

there is a lot of trash up there

[grand perch]

ah yeh

[bitter turtle]

besides the blitz/aura

catch a breath

opening salvo

lot of garbo

[wanton dawn]

At some point we are talking with some shortcut and assumption

Which is why semantics argument are pointless btw

[grand perch]

i do like longshot + exhil takedown

[bitter turtle]

ya but it doesnt matter which column you take at the very top

since they come together

[wanton dawn]

Bottom left is not committing

[bitter turtle]

its the ones right after the blitz that start affecting your pathing

[wanton dawn]

You can skip it sometimes

Not great

But you can

[bitter turtle]

well, i think realistically, you can't really avoid the middle of the bottom tree, you're always gonna path across it somehow, voc or not

[wanton dawn]

It is iron will path

[bitter turtle]

unless you do a "i am goiung right side so i will just take every singl eright side talent and nothing else" build

[wanton dawn]

I use this as core in most build

Rofl. I almost use the same stuff

Which gun ?

[tall torrent]

Azrael runs Zarona I think

Yea

[wanton dawn]

I use with plasma

Plasma sunder ps. I call it "cleave"

It is a pain in the arse to craft

[tall torrent]

Yea

[wanton dawn]

Still wont try to craft another one

And 2 hours of mindcrushing market spam ?

[raw steppe]

Still waiting for more content

[wanton dawn]

"You need mod for that" remind me of autoroll perk

[raw steppe]

Hopefully they add red weqpons or something

[bitter turtle]

i used to do the perk rolling manually

[raw steppe]

Another level and shit to craft

[bitter turtle]

before the change

lel

[terse idol]

Hopefully they add "recycle weapons under this rating"

[wanton dawn]

Eh, richer than me

[grand perch]

ive blown so many ressources on improving my close to optimal vraks mk7, but hadron keeps bricking it

[mortal vigil]

Quick question how can I see the damage?

[bitter turtle]

mods

[mortal vigil]

Oh

[hearty panther]

reject bm, embrace ht + dc

yea but like really really hard

nah just left clickin

[midnight totem]

If it were me, I'd make recycling orange weapons give a specific resource. Use this resource along with Diamantine to unlock a third slot, and reroll weapon's stat at its current rating, and improve its stats by 5 points until 380 base

[hearty panther]

i just refuse to participate in the silliness that is BM lol

[grand perch]

whatever floats your boat

[hearty panther]

its patently wrong

[mortal vigil]

Alright you're talking in alien for me😅😂😂

[bitter turtle]

taxe best weapon

jk

[hearty panther]

yea imagine a blessing that said 300% damage

[wanton dawn]

Pinning (cough)

[hearty panther]

even pinning was 100%

[bitter turtle]

pinning only said 100

ye

[hearty panther]

which is comparatively downright conservative

[terse idol]

I just thought not running BM was terrible for rashad

Since you always double horde clear time, least on bruisers

[bitter turtle]

he's not avoiding it bc its bad

he's avoiding it bc its good

out of principles

[terse idol]

Right

[hearty panther]

well, mostly it's just boring

i get more enjoyment micro managing my swings to maintain the stacks

[wanton dawn]

Eh, you made some reddit user scream rn

[austere pine]

don't suppose i could get an infantry lasgun to oneshot dreg bruisers on headshot?

[hearty panther]

probably

[bitter turtle]

i dont know off hand but i bet you could

great maniac modifiers + deadly accurate as a blessing

beeg dmg

unless you mean no crit

[hearty panther]

bruiser head is flak

[bitter turtle]

oh wait

im fuckin blind

i saw dreg rager

[austere pine]

cuz i sort of want to exchange my mk7 hh for a lasgun

seems like a good choice for what i want to do, which is drop smoke, pop exe stance and click heads

[bitter turtle]

the ilas dmg profile is basically reversed from v7

really good maniac really awful flak

pretty good

[hearty panther]

yea

[bitter turtle]

you can spam into a mauler body and kill them p fast even without headshot bonus from DA

[austere pine]

it does but i don't like how i get basically no ammo

[bitter turtle]

really?

i stopped running surv on it ages ago

its pretty ammo efficient

one taps almost everything

[austere pine]

oh i don't run surv

[bitter turtle]

i dont either

[austere pine]

but this build is basically gun™️

[terse idol]

I've started running like fire team and it's funny, not that it's changing much but shock trooper just has alot ammo econ

[austere pine]

so i still run out of ammo

[bitter turtle]

yeah i run it also with only gun talents

are you building it right

it should be able to 1tap everything short of mauler/ogryn/dreg rager

[terse idol]

I run left side build exe, Mf and take extra toughness gained

[austere pine]

screw MF

[bitter turtle]

no MF, i run focus

[austere pine]

nah not doing that ever again

[terse idol]

[austere pine]

running it this way

[bitter turtle]

uh

[austere pine]

the hh

[bitter turtle]

wow

exec with no toughness gain

that's pretty ballsy

[austere pine]

as i said, gun™️

[bitter turtle]

do you 1 tap gunners

and flamers

[austere pine]

w or w/o focus?

[bitter turtle]

without

[austere pine]

lemme see

[bitter turtle]

flamers you prob need to crit

you should be running deadshot tbh

flamer/scab rager require a crit to 1tap

[austere pine]

oh yeah

since i don't shoot 15 gazillion shots per second

[wanton dawn]

too much grenade for my taste on a "gun" build

[austere pine]

it's a smoke and gun

[wanton dawn]

Lemme get my "gun" build

[austere pine]

no 1 tap

BUT

[bitter turtle]

well that is prob why you are running out of ammo ig

[wanton dawn]

"gun"

[bitter turtle]

also i hope you dont shoot crusher with it then

[austere pine]

also have ghost instead of headhunter

or deadly accurate

fuck no

[bitter turtle]

surgical/ghost?

[austere pine]

running chain sword

yup

[bitter turtle]

idk

[wanton dawn]

My problem is that I spend to much ammo

[bitter turtle]

i think ghost is overkill

v7 is like

the "i kill gunners' gun

[austere pine]

i'm switching it asap

[bitter turtle]

they should already be no threat to you

[austere pine]

but i've never used a hh until now so i don't have the blessings yet

well, i don't have the plasteel now

[bitter turtle]

well

for reference this is what i run

https://i.gyazo.com/7b05d18beabdbef652902483c999268b.png

[austere pine]

wait marksman is garbage

[bitter turtle]

unarmored/flak
surgical/DA

idk i have no problem with ammo

[austere pine]

this doesn't re-proc on exe stance reset

[bitter turtle]

but maybe this build is not enough gun for you

it does not

only on activation

i just assumed you didn tneed elite bc exec covers the missing dmg anyway maybe? idk

but if you cant onetap gunner then you should prob swap

[austere pine]

hitting exec allows for a crit to kill gunner and flamer

[bitter turtle]

the build i posted kills gunner w/ no crit

both of them

you can try it if you want

[austere pine]

after some changes, consideriing i wasn't running deadshot, was running marksman and whatnot else

yup on deadshot and superiority complex i get gunners

not flamers though

[bitter turtle]

you might need rending strikes or focus tags

[austere pine]

a tad upsetting

[bitter turtle]

im like 40 dm gshort of killing flamer w/o rending strikes

or a focus tag

[austere pine]

if i tag i get the onehit

[bitter turtle]

im too lazy to make sure i always tag them so i just take rending

focus taken mostly for stam to fuel more deadshot

[austere pine]

2 stacks and exe oneshots flamer i think

[rocky jacinth]

does rending strikes actually do anything at all yet

[austere pine]

in any case, i need to switch ghost to literally anything else

and surgical, too

[bitter turtle]

wdym

[austere pine]

gives rending

[bitter turtle]

surgical good tho

[austere pine]

armor pen

[bitter turtle]

surgical + deadly accurate is the optimal choice imo

[agile forge]

Rending is a great stat

[bitter turtle]

some ppl like headhuntner + DA though

[rocky jacinth]

it was bugged for the longest time, definitely up until penance update

did literally NOTHING

[bitter turtle]

this is uh

the first ive heard of this

[agile forge]

That isn't true right?

[bitter turtle]

i didnt have that experience at least

[tall torrent]

Untrue

[rocky jacinth]

as far as i tested, 100% true i'm not bullshitting

[tall torrent]

What did u test it on

[bitter turtle]

i dont think so bc i have been taking rending strikes to kill flamers for months now

[agile forge]

I trust numbers cat in this stuff

[bitter turtle]

and yes ive tried dropping it repeatedly

[rocky jacinth]

exact same damage numbers on crushers with all weapons

and flak ragers

[tall torrent]

Can u show a recording of that

[rocky jacinth]

no sorry, can you check in game right now though?

[tall torrent]

Yea and it works fine

[bitter turtle]

i can assure you

it works

[rocky jacinth]

fuck yeah sick

[bitter turtle]

i tried someone's build last night

and rending strikes was something they forgot to mention for a 1shot

so i had to add it in

[rocky jacinth]

i don't have any builds that could benefit from it but i'll make something just for it

[trim hemlock]

That's a Vraks the game just gave me

[bitter turtle]

looks pretty good

[dreamy spade]

Why tf dont vet shovels have brutal momentum

They have no cleave modifiers apart from thrust

[rocky jacinth]

we need to petition fatshark to allow for deadly accurate on boltguns

[bitter turtle]

i dont think they oculd rly use bromentum

[trim hemlock]

The build. Slightly altered Yuri's version (I suppose I could get Tac reload instead of Volley Adept, but either is fine IMO)

[bitter turtle]

outside of maybe multikills with the special action?

they cant really oneshot trash can they

[terse idol]

Nio

[slow spade]

I wish the headhunter had a bayonet

[terse idol]

For what it's worth I thought the shovels (the standard) was really good at horde control

[bitter turtle]

ye there's two flex points in the build so doin that looks p good too

if you didnt want demo team or volley adept/ET

[bitter turtle]

control yeah, but their kill speed is nothing to write home about

[slow spade]

shovels need buff

2x damage and cleave damage

[terse idol]

Yee

And like decimator skull crusher not bad for em

[elder fiber]

I agree og shovel should do 360 dmg on headshot

[trim hemlock]

The shovels are mostly fine, but their weakness v UY damage is glaring

[terse idol]

We should cut the shovel so the head is like a spear

And then call it, a spear

[terse idol]

I think many weapons struggle against uy so, eh

It's not like the place it is

Unless you use the stabby shovels

[rocky jacinth]

bro yes LET'S GO

[terse idol]

Marginally better

[bitter turtle]

can oneshot a crusher but not a bulwark

[slow spade]

2-handed shovels when?

[bitter turtle]

truly a weapon

[trim hemlock]

Oh yeah, I meant the bending shovels from the get-go

I don't know what to think of the Munitorum/barebones one

It's... there.

[slow spade]

the original shovels are alright

[trim hemlock]

I do have some sick bases for the OG shovel

[slow spade]

they have good dodges at least

I think the best actually 🤔

[agile forge]

Shovel 7 kills decently fast on heavies

But I think you want to get a Thrust stack or two before you let them fly

[trim hemlock]

Well it is a good defensive weapon, that's for sure

it just is very mundane

Catachan swords at least have the funny riposte gimmick

the shovel just clonks

[agile forge]

It has a lovely clonk

Plus the folding strike feels great

[trim hemlock]

I feel like I'm constantly referencing a different weapon

The 7 is fine

The 3... I don't know what to think of it, yet, I haven't played basically none of it yet

And the original is the one I rendered "mundane"

[agile forge]

Oh yeah, cba to even try the original lol

I know a lot of people swear by it

[trim hemlock]

The OG one would be OK, had Take a Swing worked on it as expected (it doesn't seem to work in the Psykhanium at least)

[paper brook]

The OG Shovel can fold too if you try hard enough

[austere pine]

@bitter turtle DA surgical, DA headhunter or headhunter surgical on vraks 7?

[bitter turtle]

Da surgical imo

Some people here prefer da HH though

Some people also swear by opening Salvo builds but I don't see the point tbh and nobody I asked really articulated the benefit

It lets you drop unarmored but taking maniac doesn't really make up for losing DA even vs maniacs

[vocal cipher]

surgical on the headhunter does fucking work. i switched to hellbore for more damage, but vraks VII is a good'un

[sinful swallow]

Vraks7 is my baby

[junior needle]

It's another episode of "redditors defend lacerate knife"

[tall torrent]

lacerate knifers when executor Mk6 does the same exact thing (actually even better in horde clear) but also gets to yeet crushers with 3.3k dps:

[junior needle]

In fairness, executor is quite inconsistent in practice due to dropping all stacks on a non-weakspot hit. Which happens consistently in melee despite good aim.

Also that's a gassed video with the ping keystone

[tall torrent]

executor is actually really good on mk6

it's nowhere as bad as I thought

[junior needle]

Let me guess

On the heavies, if you hit a head in a swing

even if you hit bodies on the cleave, it keeps your stacks

[tall torrent]

It’s per weakspot hit (stacks multiple times in a swing) and you only drop stacks of an attack connects with zero weak spots

On Mk6 u can loop H1 > H2 > BC

Executor also gets all major breakpoints even starting from 0 stacks

3 hit crusher & mauler, 2 hit both rager

[junior needle]

neat

I still think it shouldn't drop on non-weakspot hits though

1 stack at most

[tall torrent]

On mk6 not the biggest issue

[junior needle]

I know, because of what you described, but it's a dumb interaction

same with decap

Or not that one uh

Decimator

[tall torrent]

It’s way better than decimator imo

[frank monolith]

some stronk axe

[junior needle]

I'm not talking about power levels explicitly

I'm talking about mechanical functions that make me go "I hate this"

[trim steppe]

Yeah if they were a timer (2-3 seconds) with weak spot hits refreshing the timer they would be more consistent and fun to use

[tall torrent]

The mechanical function is way better than decimator

[junior needle]

Decimator is egregiously bad in terms of qol

Although it also doesn't have the issue of just randomly dropping all your stacks because somethings are got in the way

[tall torrent]

In my experience, the only case where executor drops out of ur control is hitting bulwark shield

Ur experience can vary

[raw steppe]

Its not greatnin practice

[junior needle]

On the mk6?

[tall torrent]

Yea, mk6

[junior needle]

I've used it on the mk3

It's awful

Drops all the time

[raw steppe]

Cuz knife doesnt easily hit multiple heads and it drops all stacks on miss

[tall torrent]

Mk6 is way better at it

[junior needle]

I know, but it highlights an issue with the blessing at a mechanical level

[raw steppe]

The only weapon where executor performs quite well is deimos

Because you can stack it for free with special

And deimos moveset lends well to keep your stacks

The other weapons the blessing is on doesnt work too well

[rocky jacinth]

I just do flesh tearer riposte and mash M1, I don't like having to do anything skillful

[tall torrent]

Mk6 loop H1 > H2

[raw steppe]

Yes and if you dont hit a headshot your stacks drop lol

Espe not great with a sweep

[tall torrent]

No

U need a hit that hits no weakspot whatsoever

If it connects with a single weakspot it doesn’t drop

It can be first target hit or last target hit

Doesn’t matter

[raw steppe]

Knife has like what 3 base cleave? Drops all the time lmao

[hearty panther]

yea it used to drop whenver you hit anything that wasnt a head, which was extremely dogshit lol

[tall torrent]

Mk3 knife yes executor is mad inconsistent

[hearty panther]

now it's sustained so long as a head is hit

[tall torrent]

Mk6 has 6.5 cleave on H1 and H2

[junior needle]

3 on lights for both variants

[junior needle]

Not advisable to skip uncanny currently unless you just never use it for elites/specials

[rocky jacinth]

I dunno, it kills maulers and crushers fast enough for me

Having guaranteed crits is awesome for low hp mobs since it'll kill in a light headshot every time

[tall torrent]

For pure light spam, mk3 is better
If doing quite literally anything other than light spam, mk6 is better

[junior needle]

Subjective perceptions aside, uncanny provides a massive damage increase on anything rending affects. 30% damage boost even in the worst case scenario of a starting adm of 100%.

It also applies to bleeds

All dots while active actually

Don't think you can hit 100% crit on vet currently

[rocky jacinth]

Yeah I know, it's great, but the whole reason I don't use it is mostly so I have that +20% when I'm just mashing through poxwalkers

and I don't like the mk6 moveset at all, call it autism

[hearty panther]

i also detest it

[junior needle]

Yep, that's what I tell people as well

[rocky jacinth]

It still kills a crusher in 3 hits and that's good enough for me

(with precision stikes, supcom, desperado)

[junior needle]

Zealot can hit 100% crit but you need a crit perk, piety, and scourge active

And riposte

[raw steppe]

Do you have a video of this?

Is that even possible with no uncanny stacks 😂

I wanna see

[junior needle]

There's some rending in the vet tree

I'm sure it's possible

[raw steppe]

Yeah maybe if he gets lucky and gets 3 crits

[junior needle]

Also with the temp boosts from ulting

[raw steppe]

But iirc you need uncanny stacks to do it pretty consistently

[tall torrent]

Executor can 2 crit crusher btw

Without carapace

[junior needle]

When you use the ping keystone 😩

[rocky jacinth]

it's kind of miserable to get footage in the psykh

[junior needle]

And it does the big damage🍆

[tall torrent]

Without it’s still enough

First hit was 1345 dmg

Well above the 1200 breakpoint

I don’t have +carapace on mine, only +elite

[junior needle]

Perks are cheating

If you can't do it with sprint and block efficiency

[tall torrent]

[rocky jacinth]

Ok maybe 3 clean crits isn't actually enough to kill but 3 crits and one hit is

[junior needle]

I don't wanna hear it

This post was brought to you by "I hate crafting" gang

[tall torrent]

I was using mercy killer but made the switch because
All knife breakpoints are weakspot hits anyway, so I wanted to see if I can still maintain 3 hit crusher even starting at 0 executor stacks, and it could

So instead of 10% melee dmg + serrated I now run 5% melee + desperado

[rocky jacinth]

Uncanny doesn't boost crit damage much because crits already pierce so much armor, but it's huge for normal hits

[tall torrent]

Uncanny does boost crit dmg

[rocky jacinth]

Yeah but not that much

[junior needle]

So it's a misconception

Crits don't pierce armor

[tall torrent]

Well

[junior needle]

It just gives you a different damage table

[tall torrent]

Can ur knife hit for 1800 Crit weakspot on crusher

[junior needle]

I thought the same thing as well long ago

Your weapon is still subject to the same adm's regardless

[rocky jacinth]

it doubles hit damage from 400 to 800 on this knife, but crits only go from 700 to 1k

on pushes

[tall torrent]

That’s still 300 dmg

And u don’t have reliable 3 hit crusher

[rocky jacinth]

this is my mk6 uncanny knife, not the one i normally use

[tall torrent]

See how much crits do for ur normal one then

[rocky jacinth]

+300 damage

[tall torrent]

From how much

[rocky jacinth]

whoops sorry, 255 damage on push attacks, to make it fair

428 to 683

[tall torrent]

Crit weakspot?

[rocky jacinth]

it's still a lesser boost than it is for normal hits

yes

[tall torrent]

That’s 6 hits to kill a crusher

[rocky jacinth]

I don't kill crushers with push attack on the mk3, I max range with the heavy

That shit is dangerous man

[tall torrent]

PA spam has higher dps than heavy atk spam

[rocky jacinth]

yeah i know it's way, way faster

[tall torrent]

6 heavies to kill 1 crusher with knife is insanity

[rocky jacinth]

but i'm ok with giving up the kill speed when I run knife for the mobility, if i wanted to instakill crushers I'd bring a power sword or shovel

[tall torrent]

But like
Why not make it good at killing stuff it’s supposed to be good at killing

U already trade horde clear & stagger by taking a knife

[rocky jacinth]

well, with the same talents and buffs and no time to build up uncanny it's still 6 hits

with the other knife, push attacks

[junior needle]

Uncanny is very easy to keep up in overall combat

[tall torrent]

With uncanny, hitting a single crusher takes 4 hits

[rocky jacinth]

ok, 5 hits with 2 crits vs 6 with 2 crits

[tall torrent]

Because you’re going to weakspot hit crusher anyways

[rocky jacinth]

i'll be fair

is there a mod that can force buffs on me in psykh

I just don't think I need the extra rending since I already don't really have trouble taking out crusher trains

[junior needle]

120% rending is never going to not improve your efficiency by a large margin on crusher packs

[rocky jacinth]

conversely, not having riposte will reduce my efficiency in dealing with hordes and random non-carapace enemies

honestly I think it's a flush, just moving the needle towards either end

[junior needle]

Flesh tearer isn't great for vet imo

Needs riposte to get even close to zealot crit levels

[tall torrent]

starting from 0, with uncanny, it takes 4 hits

[junior needle]

And it's not as on demand either

[rocky jacinth]

let me put it this way

[rocky jacinth]

oh you have carapace on there right

[tall torrent]

Yea that’s what I used it for previously
Except then I realized executor just kind of kills everything better

The only notable breakpoint flesh tearer gives over other +dmg blessings is Crit weakspot 1 shot scab rager (which requires +flak)

[tall torrent]

No

+elite

And this is without tagging

[rocky jacinth]

talents then

[tall torrent]

Very standard stuff

[rocky jacinth]

i just have these, it's for my marksman build

[tall torrent]

I have a different build that takes frag + survivalist, which I’ll need tag to get 4 tap starting from 0 stacks

But that’s not a particularly bad caveat anyways

It’s very lenient

[rocky jacinth]

i might have to try executor at some point then

[tall torrent]

Not executor

This is uncanny strike

[rocky jacinth]

executor uncanny strike

[tall torrent]

Yea I think it’s good

[rocky jacinth]

you got both on, i can see those buffs

weak spot + crit rate?

[tall torrent]

No

+elite

2nd perk doesn’t rly matter

I have maniac locked

Unfortunately

[rocky jacinth]

rough

[tall torrent]

Maniac is the only one that doesn’t do anything for knife on veteran

[trim hemlock]

What about Poxwalkers? Surely that does something relevant

[tall torrent]

executor is pretty easy to maintain if u do H1 > H2

[rocky jacinth]

weak spot will fuck elites up too though i imagine it's just plain better if you try to avoid body shots like the plague

[trim hemlock]

And when you think about Poxwalkers perk, Maniac is probably the least of your worries re: "bad" perks

[rocky jacinth]

unless you pop flak without weak spot

[tall torrent]

+weakspot dmg is shit unfortunately

Even on a finesse weapon like knife

It’s still shit

[rocky jacinth]

ok enlighten me

is it actually less damage on headshot than + elite

[tall torrent]

Because +weakspot is calculated on extra dmg gained from weakspot hits

[trim hemlock]

it affects the bonus damage from hitting the weakspot

not the total damage

[tall torrent]

If ur weapon does 50 dmg normally and 100 on weakspot
+10% weakspot dmg results in 50 + (100-50)(1+10%) = 105 dmg

So u get 5% extra

Whereas +10% elite would be 100x(1+10%) = 110 dmg

[rocky jacinth]

oh yeah you're right, it's a 40 damage deficit testing on rager with a push attack

i've always just run + elite so i've never really tested

[tall torrent]

The only case where weakspot is not shit is if it gets the same breakpoints as taking +dmg (flak, elite, maniac, carapace) perks on elites & specials, while getting better breakpoints on horde enemies

Which is exceedingly rare

[trim hemlock]

this is baseline damage of combat blade mk6, against Unarmoured. Values in the 2nd column are the ones corresponding to weakspots.

WS-modified damage bonus is 289,94. If you increase that by the measly 10%, you get 318,93

[rocky jacinth]

and only gives me 7 more damage on poxwalker light attack headshot

damn it's trash bro

[tall torrent]

Yea

Also

For mk3 specifically

The 2nd highest DPS combo is not heavy > punch > overhead > heavy

[rocky jacinth]

i'm not sold on going uncanny on my knife over riposte because i actually did play a lot with uncanny before i swapped over, but i'll have to try the executor meme

[tall torrent]

Mk3 2nd highest dps combo is actually H2 > L3 loop twice

[tall torrent]

Riposte is good as a 2nd blessing but it’s really not nearly as good as uncanny

[hollow ibex]

i'm not sold on going uncanny on my knife over riposte

[trim hemlock]

Uncanny enables things like reliable killing of Crushers/Maulers on weakspot hits, which is fairly big

Mandatory? Probably not, but it does build well into the niche that knife does

because like, what else will you do with the toothpick? Specialize in horde clear?

There are better weapons for that

[tall torrent]

Also uncanny makes frags do funny things

[rocky jacinth]

grabbing plasteel

[old quail]

you can substitute riposte for uncanny on zealot since you can reach 95-100% crit chance but not really in the context of vet

[tall torrent]

Why not run fast and be able to delete crushers at the same time

It’s not like uncanny has a move speed penalty

[rocky jacinth]

i told you, with this i somehow just kill more shit all the time

[tall torrent]

[rocky jacinth]

it could be a skill adjustment though, who knows

[tall torrent]

Ok

Well I encourage u to try new things

Executor is pretty fun tho

[rocky jacinth]

it's one of the few blessings i actually haven't tried, so i'm gonna do it

[trim hemlock]

I ran Executor as of recent - I find it somewhat hard to keep up, albeit repeated H1/H2 on Mk6 seems to do the trick

because H2 -> L is a bit finnicky and can end the buff (the diagonal cut is at an awkward angle)

[tall torrent]

this is how it actually works

[tall torrent]

yea H2 > L3 is not consistent

[rocky jacinth]

is it viable at all to run on mk3?

[tall torrent]

knife light atks just don't work well with guaranteeing weakspot hits

[tall torrent]

completely irrelevant

because whether mk3 light atks hit weakspot is more or less up to the emperor to decide

[rocky jacinth]

are you saying the mark is irrelevant or that it's an irrelevant blessing for the mk3

[tall torrent]

I’m saying executor is irrelevant on mk3

But I’m also of the opinion that mk6 is just better than mk3 at least on veteran

[rocky jacinth]

alright, i think mk6 is some jank shit but i'll try it out, just for you

[tall torrent]

If u do more than just light spam

[tall torrent]

Mk6 is the more complex one ig

[trim hemlock]

Mk6 is generally perceived as the better combat blade overall, Vet or not

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1211818651682996254/1241818685912649958/IMG_9284.png?ex=664b9546&is=664a43c6&hm=8c0cf2184b157f1b6e75e9329dca1950d241106a49e6ef681072028d48a1b799&

[trim hemlock]

I really don't know why would you ever run Mk3 over Mk6

[tall torrent]

Short guide for knife

[rocky jacinth]

time to waste all my plasteel again

[tall torrent]

@rocky jacinth [atk pattern] means loop

[hollow ibex]

if you're lazy like me and only ever light spam against hordes

[tall torrent]

So if it says [PA] it means u spam PA

If it says [H2 > PA] it means H2 > PA > H2 > PA > …

It loops into each other

BC is block cancel

[rocky jacinth]

i've seen so many people claim either knife to be the best that i just stopped listening and made up my own mind

[tall torrent]

SP is special

L0 is modified light atk (which is the overhead stab after punch)

[trim hemlock]

fair enough

[trim hemlock]

I can only ever trust myself on these things

And mk3 just doesn’t cut it

[forest scaffold]

Talk about necroposting

I appreciate the build though

[trim hemlock]

Worse attack patterns, a bit worse ADMs in these attack patterns, but the weapon has superior attack angles and a better push attack than Mk3

[tall torrent]

Imo mk6 is better on veteran because:
Better horde clear (H1 > H2 > BC hits more enemies and kills faster with better cleave distribution)
Better single target (identical hit-to-kill breakpoints, faster combo time)
More versatile moveset (being able to hit multiple elites in a horde is a huge plus imo)

Maybe for zealot/psyker, mk3 can hit a breakpoint that mk6 outright can’t

But at least on veteran it’s the same breakpoints

[agile forge]

I think psyker likes the 6 more

[forest scaffold]

Combat Knives are dogshit

that's all there is to it

[rocky jacinth]

are there hard numbers on the range of the attacks?

[forest scaffold]

you're arguing which turd smells less

[agile forge]

But the DS4 does a similar niche too

[forest scaffold]

Grab a power sword

Become one with the metaslave

[agile forge]

I'm enjoying my combat blade build on my Zealot tbh

[tall torrent]

They’re all really short at somewhere like 1.2~1.4m

[rocky jacinth]

because i feel like the range on mk6 is worse, but it could be a skill issue

[forest scaffold]

skill issue

[agile forge]

Using the 3 on zealot

[forest scaffold]

Mk3 and mk6 are identical hitboxes

[forest scaffold]

For you, Sirosky, literally everything a combat blade does, the rashad combat axe does with 100x less effort and 100x more reward

There's no legitimate argument for the combat blade other than "With enough effort, you can make it okay"

[hollow ibex]

what maining ogryn does to a mfer

can you still count past three?

[rocky jacinth]

who let this guy in here

[forest scaffold]

Come back to me when the combat knives can kill 4 bruisers per swing

[trim hemlock]

They have to. Counting their fingers to remember they still are where they should be is important

[forest scaffold]

I'll have you know my magazine has 130 bullets in it

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/knutmath-knut-math-counting-confused-gif-3104072053120049527

so you can count up to four

very good

[forest scaffold]

We're almost two years into this game and people are still looking down on people for who they play in this game.

Which is also funny, as if I don't also play all four classes with regularity(Though ogryn is my favorite)

big man hit hard

club funnee

[rocky jacinth]

@tall torrent I got this thing, I guess I can use it

it's a bit cursed though

[tall torrent]

Works

[forest scaffold]

change riposte to to uh

fuck

finesse on dodge

[tall torrent]

Prob swap infested off

[forest scaffold]

and infested to unyielding or

flak?

[tall torrent]

Elite

[forest scaffold]

No

Not no to you

[tall torrent]

Veteran breakpoints a bit different

Either elite or carapace

[forest scaffold]

I'm trying to remember what I run on my knife

Its Unyielding and something else

[tall torrent]

Although idk what the breakpoints are without uncanny

Never bothered testing it without uncanny

[forest scaffold]

oh yeah no

Swap riposte to uncanny strike

[agile forge]

Dodge.

[forest scaffold]

you can freely swap executor or finesse on dodge

either one ends up being the same at the end of the day

uncanny lets you kill crushers in 5 or 6 hits

[rocky jacinth]

I'll just run a mission with it to get a feel then see if I actually need elite on it

[tall torrent]

3

[rocky jacinth]

@tall torrent ok i'm sorry but this is dogshit

[tall torrent]

Are u doing light spam or

[rocky jacinth]

heavy heavy bc

[tall torrent]

How is that bad

[rocky jacinth]

kills REAL slow

[tall torrent]

On what enemy

[rocky jacinth]

poxwalkers and bruisers

[tall torrent]

u sure?

[rocky jacinth]

yeah that's slow

[tall torrent]

Compared to what

[rocky jacinth]

m1 crit spam with the mk3

[tall torrent]

You’re not getting crits on all hits though

[last parcel]

be better

[rocky jacinth]

ok i actually died now, so i can speak my mind

the problem with this setup is that your power is directly related to how well you land your hits rather than being completely tied so simply mashing all your buttons

it's harder to upkeep reciprocity when you're dancing in and out doing heavies, but that might be a me issue

the problem with the attacks is that you get really bogged down unless you get those stacks up, and it's max 3 targets when you cleave

[tall torrent]

It’s not max 3 targets when u cleave

[rocky jacinth]

and you don't have a reliable high damage opener attack on stuff like crushers because H1 and H2 are cleaves

[tall torrent]

It’s 6.5 cleave, and goes up to 8.45 with executor max stacks

So that’s 7~9 targets

[rocky jacinth]

you don't always have the time to set up with a lot of stamina to push spam

i only ever got max 3 kills in one hit

[tall torrent]

Yea because cleave dmg distribution exists

Knife doesn’t get brutal momentum lol

[rocky jacinth]

it's a lot of commitment to get the killing power which doesn't exist with my setup

it's just press 1 and mash m1 and dodge button

[tall torrent]

I mean

You can’t really get simpler than m1 spam with occasional dodges

So in that sense it’s more complex

[austere badger]

What is the fastest firing helbore?

[rocky jacinth]

mk2

[tall torrent]

But in my experience executor is not that hard to keep up

[austere badger]

Thank you for your service.

[rocky jacinth]

no i didn't find it hard to keep up, it's just that you start with 0 stacks when you draw the knife

[tall torrent]

At 0 stacks u still have 6.5 cleave

[rocky jacinth]

but it doesn't kill poxwalkers

[tall torrent]

The video I sent is starting at 0 stacks

[rocky jacinth]

After some more play I'll say it's not actually BAD, I think it's more that it just goes against everything I like and appreciate about the knife

[tall torrent]

Yea that sounds about right

It’s very different from m1 spam for sure

[rocky jacinth]

It doesn't have that instant explosive punch, it's more like an axe or something

[tall torrent]

Sort of

With full executor stacks up it feels more like a short sword than a knife

[rocky jacinth]

True that

It's really good at cleaning up things like ranged elites in a pack that you'd normally want to push attack

[tall torrent]

Oh yea cuz it can reach above 8 cleave

So u can hit 3 gunners actually

Or 5 shotgunners

Since shotgunners are 2 mass

8.45 cleave gets to hit 5 of them

[trim steppe]

So how many barrel kills have you guys gotten? This penance makes my insides hurt

Just shy of 800, only 1700 to go 🙃

[sturdy zephyr]

Anyone still running Rashad axe?or got better replacement?

Tried to run melee build

[wild vortex]

I love that axe

been using it on shouty too

it's so good

[swift bear]

How is this?

like I know thermal resistance is probably important but is it insanely important? I hope not lol

[stuck gorge]

max TR gets you 3 charged shots before you hit 100%

[swift bear]

so basically it allows one extra shot

seems important...

but is that only 80% TR?

[stuck gorge]

80% is the max of any stat

for some reason

[swift bear]

ya I know that part 😛

I am asking, is what you said only apply to max being 80%, or can it be say 79%?

[stuck gorge]

78% is what i used for that

[swift bear]

should you ever reload or do you only use the secondary fire thing to reduce heat?

[tall torrent]

69+ thermal resist allows 8 continuous uncharged shots instead of 7

it's good QoL

[tall torrent]

would swap maniac to elite

[stuck gorge]

i mean it is a pretty lengthy reload so just stick to venting heat til you get a bit of rest

[tall torrent]

don't use charged shots on plasma

[swift bear]

damn I figured it was very good

oh no charged shots? ok

[tall torrent]

it's good QoL but not a total dealbreaker

[tall torrent]

yea ur not supposed to charge plasma ever

until they change it eventually anyways

[swift bear]

well it makes sense considering the blessings I have on it 😛

thanks guys!

[trim steppe]

This is quite good. Change maniac to elite or flak and you're set. Don't use charged shots, basically always hip fire quick shots into everything

[swift bear]

when you say elite do you mean +10% ranged damage against elites?

[tall torrent]

+elite perk
Also take the +15% elite dmg talent

[swift bear]

You mean this?

[tall torrent]

Yes
And the +elite Dmg talent

Superiority complex

[swift bear]

thanks

and ya the elite damage talent is in every one of my builds haha

[tall torrent]

You also want redirect fire or longshot

Talents

Those will give u 1 headshot breakpoint vs gunners & flamers

[swift bear]

sweet!

@tall torrent would you take survivalist or fire team? Survivalist kinda just seems... meh now lol

[late hatch]

Surv is still very strong, more so in lower diff than HIST

[tall torrent]

Survivalist

For plasma

[swift bear]

I copied the top build I saw and changed one thing

[sturdy zephyr]

Any blessing should consider?

[sturdy zephyr]

This fit well and survival ready too

[late hatch]

Bromentum is mandatory on axes, then you have a choice of a few other blessings, I like headtaker. 25% to unarmoured is needed in a lot of builds to reach BP for bruisers.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1162275718563110933/1236560724717736036/image.png?ex=664b922a&is=664a40aa&hm=de17e7601bdf175c1573a80081bb798ef2a2e8827f9fc56a16d940365a362d21&

As long as you hit heads you will just chew through pretty much anything. Spam lights for horde and use heavies for armour.

[umbral scaffold]

Bro momentum

[tall torrent]

U don’t need charismatic, longshot, rending strikes or focussed fire

You need either longshot or redirect fire, not both

[elder oriole]

brick or wait until crafting update

[stuck gorge]

Wait for update then brick

[sturdy zephyr]

Worth wait

[late hatch]

I would hold for update. Im not really doing any crafting atm, but then there arent many weapons I still have to craft, so im rich

[sturdy zephyr]

this i manage to get for now.im sving 1 more to change. i dont think thrust going to give big advantage

[raw steppe]

unfortunately its kinda fucked

First target and pene are low which means it might not hit breakpoints

[sturdy zephyr]

Okay

[raw steppe]

The most important things on rashad is stats + unarmored + bm

Basically you really need to hit that bruiser break point

Over anything else really

[raw steppe]

If you don't have a decent one I'd brick now, otherwise wait

[sturdy zephyr]

Thx u I'm going to alert those points

[wise fossil]

anyone ever seen double monstrosity on non monstrous maelstrom?

[raw steppe]

Cuz you have no idea if the update is gonna be tomorrow or 3 months later

[sturdy zephyr]

So for the axe focus on 1st target,pene and DMg?

[late hatch]

So im actually playing on hardmode atm. I cant spec, it crashes the game, at least I think thats what it is, if I go down it crashes and I cant recon to the match lol.

[raw steppe]

Ideally try to get 76-80 on dmg, pen, finesse and ft

Mobility can dump

[raw steppe]

You can do dt hardcore where if you fail a mission you delete the character

[midnight totem]

even' guys

whats up

[bitter turtle]

we dont even know when the craft update is

just make it

[tall torrent]

Yes

Plague ogryn + BoN at the same time

[wise fossil]

That's wild. Between me and another guy in game we had 2200 hours and neither of us had never seen it

[tall torrent]

But that’s both monsters per mission coming at the same time

Missions only spawn 2 monsters unless the final event requires a monster spawn

Like consignment yard final event

[iron marten]

had one match shortly after the beta where the game spawned two beast of nurgles and then crashed my game

[stuck basin]

How do you guys deal with Damnation Hi-intensity shock troop gauntlet?

I was in a few game and the game just kept steam rolling us with specials. For each special I kill 2 more takes its place

I was playing quickplay tho

[raw steppe]

Git gud

Forreal though, target prioritization and being able to not be overwhelmed

[wise fossil]

Watching people who are good at the game is also helpful

Telopots and ChocoB on Youtube are good

[stuck basin]

I was playing with pugs and I was stuck between trying to snipe specials and reviving downed teammates.

[raw steppe]

Knowing what to kill in what order and controlling the situation is generally most important because there generally is an order of how threatening specials are

[raw steppe]

The trick for histg is to not revive teammates and just let them die unless the rezz is free

[stuck basin]

Aight I'll take a look at their videos and see what to prioritize.

[late hatch]

Switch between melee and ranged, use pushes, nades, and cc abilities effectively, position well in the map and relative to team mates.

[raw steppe]

If you have to take any damage or any risk to rezz someone

Better to just let them die and make sure you stay in a good position

[late hatch]

Also try running meta builds if you have trouble, and use the right tool for the right enemy

[stuck basin]

The wall of crushers and a bunch of bombers chugging nades from behind seems to be the way the team crumbled the most

[raw steppe]

Ye so my question for you is

If theres a wall of crushers or a bunch of bombers

And you are alone

How would you deal with it

If your answer isnt "kill them all" then your build probably is missing a few things

[late hatch]

Dont shoot things just coz you can see them, deal with things in small chunks. A lot of players see enemies at the far side of a room and instantly shoot, instead of dealing with close stuff first. Then you need good weapons, in combo, so you cover armour, horde, and something to kill snipers and bombers.

[stuck basin]

I'm running Colombus / plasma and chain sword combo

So I guess dance around the crusher and kill bombers first?

[raw steppe]

Uh not really lol

With a plasma you can kinda just kill everything

With a ciag, you can ignore the bombers, switch to PS, throw a shredder, kill crushers, switch back to ciag kill bombers

[late hatch]

Plasma into the heads of crushers to knockback, deal with bomber before he throws if you can, ping one and start shooting the other is what I norm do.

[stuck basin]

I'll try that. Most of the time I find myself trying to do 30 things at the same time

[torn gazelle]

So I recently tried the accatran mk vid on malice and it seems to be REALLY good especially with horde clear, am I going to be hobbling myself trying to use this in heresy or damnation

[raw steppe]

Just prioritize lol

[radiant chasm]

that's just the game, it's very hybrid

[radiant chasm]

your guess is 100% correct

[stuck basin]

Hard to keep track of what my team is doing tho, there are times bomber just seperate the team into pockets of place without fire

[raw steppe]

Dont need to keep track of team lol

[late hatch]

Being able to decide what to do in a split second is what separates auric/HIST players from the rank and file

[raw steppe]

All you need is to track specials and your own positioning

[torn gazelle]

damn it because I really want to like this gun as it chews through hordes though it seems to have a bit of an ammo problem

[raw steppe]

Your team literally doesnt matter

[torn moat]

IVd used to be really good dps for headhunter crit builds. But they nerfed it hard when they changed how crit-chaining works.

Now it doesn't crit as constantly and it has ammo efficiency issues on higher difficulties.

[radiant chasm]

yes even with shocktrooper, most horde clear in this game goes for melee and you save ranged for ranged/specials/elites

[stuck basin]

What are the special should I kill first?

[raw steppe]

Ones that will kill you if you dint deal with them right away

This depends a lot of situation

[torn gazelle]

are any of the accatrans viable for heresy or damnation or am I barking up the entirely wrong tree here?

[late hatch]

disablers first

[stuck basin]

Have you tried using the blue kanteal with auto fire mod. It functions the same as accatran but packs more of a punch

[radiant chasm]

try the mk4 inflas first, it's fast firing

[raw steppe]

Like in an open area, snipers are big threat, but most of the time snipers are useless

[radiant chasm]

if you are on pc, use the full auto mod

[late hatch]

It can be played, but it isnt easy to get value compared to other guns.

It does have a few perks but a few big downsides including you will be gobbling ammo. If you have 2 psykers, no prob.

[raw steppe]

Theyre viable sure lol

[radiant chasm]

it's viable but they are def in the lower tiers

[minor iron]

is it pretty decisive that the mk4 chain sword is just better than the XIIIg? wondering which one i should start rolling bases for

[stuck basin]

I like mk4

[late hatch]

I play both the d and a coz I love how they look and play. If you get a god roll you can def have some fun with them

MK4 is just better

[torn gazelle]

that's a shame because it's so much fun to just be able to more or less just delete hordes with it

[trim steppe]

yup, recons are very fun and cool weapons that Fatshark has repeated decided to take dumps on for no reason

[late hatch]

Using it on hordes is going to hurt ammo econ. Shoot elites and specials. Melee chaff

[torn gazelle]

yes but at the same time I didn't drag all that ammo with me not to use it

[late hatch]

If you are below 50% you risk having a big fight that completely drains you. You can dump a few mags pretty quickly

[trim steppe]

I always just temper my playstyle on any given map with the team I'm in. If my team is leaving ammo bags on the ground I'm gonna start doing my dumb stuff like mag dumping into hordes for giggles

If its a tougher match with less ammo I play more conservative

[torn gazelle]

yeah I usually wait a bit to see where everyone is, if there's a horde coming at us that no one is really claiming then yeah that horde is getting either deleted or seriously thinned out

[radiant chasm]

it's because the weapon is goofy when it's good

and just, obnoxious to watch

also, it just doesn't do horde clear that well, agri brauto just does it better with pen and ability to ramp with blessings

[torn gazelle]

more obnoxius than the psyker flamethrower? that thing makes it nearly impossible to see anything anywhere near it

[stuck basin]

for shit and giggles, I like to use Kantrael MG IV with autofire mod. its super ammo efficient and you can sort of kill chaffs and elites with it

[radiant chasm]

you can turn off bloom which tones it down to a good level, you can't turn off the psychic damage from watching a veteran run up to a crusher adn blasting it with a recon during the great rending patch of 13

bloom is a fake graphics option anyways

[torn gazelle]

no, crushers are why I have krak grenades

[radiant chasm]

make things look worse and harder to see

[late hatch]

You can still shred crushers with onslaught

[trim steppe]

That was so fun, idc what you say lol I want it back

[radiant chasm]

yes but you don't get infinite rending anymore, and other weapons just do it better xd

like the headhunters

with shocktroop, unnerfed survivalist, unnerfed crit chains, and unnerfed rending talents it was just, it wasn't even the best gun, it was just the silliest

[tall torrent]

unironically, learn to minimize any & all dmg u might take in both melee & ranged (even being out-of-coherency), and bring weapons in a build that strives to be able to deal with every enemy in the game by yourself

u'd also want to learn specialist spawn sound cues and target priority, and even map knowledge to an extent (especially for certain maps' events)

[torn gazelle]

yeah chokepoint awareness is key starting at heresy

[bitter turtle]

you just have to keep moving

the specialists never stop spawn ing

[minor iron]

what does everyone think of focus target? most of what im seeing online says that weapon speacialist is the best final tree on vet

[bitter turtle]

weapon specialist is the most significant effect of the three keystones imo

but it doesnt work for every build

focus target is a good "generic" keystone that works for basically anything you wanna run

the effect is lower than if you played the other two at max efficiency though9

[torn moat]

Weapon Specialist is great for Revolver builds. I find it hard to use with most other weapons though

[tall torrent]

most builds benefit from focus target in some way
weapon specialist is very specifically good for a few weapons, so good that if you play those weapons you're almost 100% going to take weapon specialist

[minor iron]

which weapons are those? assuming columnus is on that list

[bitter turtle]

its ok on columnus

[tall torrent]

main example is like rashad & zarona revolver

[bitter turtle]

not amazing though

[tall torrent]

zarona is just a weapon specialist gun in 95% scenarios

[trim steppe]

That's the thing for me. It wasn't the best, it was just silly. Aka fun. And so idk why Fatshark took a dump on it. Why nerf something that is fun and not even the best/most op?

[bitter turtle]

for guns

revolver
laspistol (need autoclick mod imo)
vraks 3
agri iag

off the top of my head

[tall torrent]

rashad wants atk speed and if ur grabbing atk speed ur super close to weapon specialist anyways

[minor iron]

ive been mainly using focus target for my revolver build, guess i should give it a go with specialist

[trim steppe]

Meanwhile the plasma, CIAG, and zarona has been op as hell for months and they've done nothing. JUSTICE FOR THE RECON

[bitter turtle]

for melee, nothing strictly needs weapon specialist for the most part, but the attackspeed annd mobility is insanely good on a lot of weapons

like psword and rashad

[torn gazelle]

I like focus target as it makes sure that tagging elites and specialists, which you should be doing anyway, benefit you directly as it makes the thing you tagged die faster and depending on what else you took gives you damage and toughness boosts

[tall torrent]

take "always prepared" (left node) for revolver

[bitter turtle]

the gun portion of the buff is the one that is more tricky to utilize for some guns

its a
100% guaranteed crit on your first shot
fire rate buff
potentially helps your reloading

not all guns like the above

or at least utilize them as well as others

[tender bloom]

I’ve been using weapon specialist on my melee build

[minor iron]

my biggest issue with weapon specialist is how much i like just holding my gun in my hands during off-time lol. wasting that buff without realizing it

[tender bloom]

It’s pretty nice I can just swap to gun get one kill and maintain the buff

[bitter turtle]

v3 = likes fire rate and critical buff
revolver = likes critical and reload
laspistol = likes critical and fire rate
aiag = likes fire rate and critical

is the jist of why i listed them as guns that use it well

shotgun is also good potential

likes the critical and reload

[white minnow]

less pronounced but i'll put v7 hh on that list as well

[bitter turtle]

in theory but I struggle to make a build that actually hits the bps i want while taking wep special

but yeah

[minor iron]

is there a good resource anywhere for current vet builds? not sure the pinned vet guide has any but i've mostly looked through it for perks and blessings

[bitter turtle]

maybe its just how i see the gun

[minor iron]

i will say the melee swing speed on right tree feels really damn good, so good i almost cant live without it now

[tall torrent]

what weapons are u aiming to take

[bitter turtle]

people tend to just ask and get answers here for builds

[minor iron]

just got a good columnus so i want to start using that more, otherwise i main zarona 99% of the time

[tall torrent]

I more or less know all the major breakpoints for veteran's weapons

[tall torrent]

what melee are u using

and which blitz/aura/ability do u want

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/2e339708824081477de7bfbd385471c6.png

this is a good skeleton for ciag

last 7 points can go in a variety of ideas

keystone if you want more dmg against everything, onslaught if you want to kill crushers with it meme, grenade talents if you wanna chuck shredders everywhere

[minor iron]

mk7 shovel, blitz ive seen online that shredder is the best general use grenade, but survivalist got hit with a decent nerf and im not sure if its the best aura anymore. commanding shout for sure

[tall torrent]

surv is still the best aura

[bitter turtle]

survivalist is by far

still the best aura

[minor iron]

good to know!

[bitter turtle]

that's how obscene it was before

[tall torrent]

but it's not completely mandatory

if u play melee more then right side is prob best to go with

[bitter turtle]

ye

[tall torrent]

10% melee dmg + agile engagement + move speed aura + 5% crit chance