veteran-class

[midnight totem]

Devastating strike sucks

[rocky trellis]

like, I have a good mk6 PS but I often forget to push while charging so I don't get slapped out of the anim

[midnight totem]

Unless you have shred

[rotund bone]

Hellooo

[tall torrent]

Mk4 is better

[rotund bone]

Question

Is the shovel actually good?

And is the revovler good

Cuz i run those

[tall torrent]

Mk7 shovel is good
Zarona revolver is very strong

Other 2 shovels have issues

[rotund bone]

Okay

Noted

[wild vortex]

I use XIIIg with Savage Sweep and Bloodletter

[rotund bone]

Im pulling up dark rn to see what i have

[wild vortex]

Just spam lights and

[tall torrent]

13g wants wrath instead of savage sweep

[rotund bone]

Also send help

[wild vortex]

Oh does it

I can change that I guess

[rotund bone]

Im trying to do the 90% accuracy penance

[tall torrent]

Because light atks don’t have enough cleave to activate savage sweep vs bruisers

Also mk13g is just not as good as mk4

[wild vortex]

God this game has so many hidden stats sometimes

[wild vortex]

[tall torrent]

The moveset is completely incoherent

[wild vortex]

I don't want to remember attack patterns

I suppose I'll try to get a mk4 and try to learn it

[tall torrent]

Mk4 is very simple

H1 > H2 > L3 > H0

HHLH

Just repeat this

For horde clear

[wild vortex]

Well I suppose I can do that. Very used to heavy spam as Ogryn player

[rotund bone]

I have

[abstract storm]

Any tips for getting this? Aside from just throwing a fuck tone of grenades?

[tall torrent]

It’s not nearly as complicated as the other more complex weapons like DC7 and knife mk6

[tall torrent]

Throw krak into scab hordes

[rotund bone]

Standard Issue Munitorum Sapper Shovel

Is that good?

[abstract storm]

Oh shit? They also count for that? Good tip

[tall torrent]

It’s usable, but I don’t think it’s that great

[rotund bone]

And then Zarona Mk IIa Quickdraw Revolver

Well i use it because 1) Shovel 2) Crowd Control

[tall torrent]

this gun is good but it's pretty hard to roll for

[rotund bone]

Ima just take a pic of its statd

Nvm

I cant post things in here

It has

Perks
+8.5% reload
+15 Dmg (Unarmored Enemies)

Blessing
Speadload: +8 reload speed, 4 seconds on close kill. (Stacks 5 times)

Terrifying Barage: Suppress enmies 6m radius on close kill

[tall torrent]

ok that's pretty bad

[rotund bone]

Figured

[tall torrent]

unfortunately

[rotund bone]

Im bad at gaems

[tall torrent]

are u lv30 yet

[rotund bone]

What should i want for it?

Uhh

26

[tall torrent]

Get to lv30 first then start crafting

Sub lv30 gear are all low rating

[rotund bone]

Wanna just like dm me what i should do

I probably wont remember tbh

I have bad memory

[tall torrent]

Level up to 30, then look for weapons with 360+ modifier rating, craft them

[rotund bone]

Okay

[fathom wedge]

How many kills is it for the marksman's fovus penance?

[tall torrent]

2500

[wild vortex]

after looking at the Ogryn "guides" on gameslantern site I'm wary af for referring to it for Vet builds

I want to try out non-VOC stuff and maybe get the penances

[midnight totem]

What would you like to start with

[fathom wedge]

I may have gone a little overboard in a few places - George Lucas

[timid needle]

shovl

[tall torrent]

u could have tracked it in mission UI lol

[idle swallow]

https://tenor.com/bt3U7.gif

[hidden torrent]

Do you guys think Ogryn high five over loud farts

I think there's a potential where they fart competitively till someone loses

[vocal cipher]

I don’t know but i hope so

[opaque crane]

Does this seem reasonable for mk7 vrak build? I’m not really sure about rending strikes

[midnight totem]

Well the headhunters aren't guns you drown your enemy with sheer weight of bullets

So Rending is good

[bitter turtle]

Rending strikes isn't necessary if you are doing MF

Though if you shoot carapace often you can keep it

I would say consider not doing MF though

I tried it before but focus target + target down adds more stam to fuel deadshot

And MF doesn't really change the majority of your bps

[opaque crane]

I’ll try focus target for getting stamina back! 🤘

[bitter turtle]

Another idea is to go down fire team instead of survivalist if you are feeling selfish

Not for the aura

But then you can pick up grenade tinkerer

For tinkerer frags lol

The v7 itself does not need survivalist so it only really exists for your team in this build

And with focus target

You can save 1 pt

Which can go into demo team

So you can spam tinkered frags

[opaque crane]

I was contemplating that actually because I keep running into other vets with survivalist. I made the changes and this seems like quite some fun!

Thanks for the build advice 🤘

[bitter turtle]

np

last thing is

you can drop rending strikes still if you're ok with tagging flamers before shooting them

rending strikes only really there to get you over the flamer bp

if you are cool with always needing to tag flamer, you can drop it

[arctic rampart]

steam seems back after being down

[opaque crane]

Ah, gotcha!

[last parcel]

they do server maintenance every Tuesday

[midnight totem]

join auric maelstrom halfway

fourth goes afk

do event, get through most of the level with just three

team gets overwhelmed just before the finale due to a boss

barely manage to escape, take down the boss, get to finale

pick up everybody, fourth is back, he was sabotaged by nurgle

finish finale easy

team congrats our fourth

[lilac kayak]

Votekick him

[midnight totem]

vote didn't pass

[lilac kayak]

Leave so they can all die

[midnight totem]

I was tempted

But

I'm a Professional Vet

Cobra Kai never die

[lilac kayak]

srsly tho the votekick system is somewhat useless if the person that is getting vote kicked have a premade partner to back them up

[midnight totem]

I suspect one of them was partied with him

Eh, I'm not holding it against them too bad

Shit happens. Literally, in this guy's case apparently.

Whoever their other fourth was apparently contributed 5 out of the 8 deaths by the end

or maybe 4

[lilac kayak]

auric mission?

[midnight totem]

auric mael

just a generic specialist waves with random nurgle buff

[lilac kayak]

theres too many heresy pubs in auric mael getting carried imo

just for that ASS clout

[midnight totem]

Auric Storm Survivor?

[lilac kayak]

ya

[midnight totem]

yeah well, they still have to avoid going down

[lilac kayak]

simple alt + f4

[arctic rampart]

reject 4 life

[lilac kayak]

correction: not dying --> getting downed is ok

[midnight totem]

getting downed keeps you from auric storm survivor

not dying is for the blue title

[lilac kayak]

thats for atoma elite guard

[midnight totem]

atoma elite guard gives auric storm doesn't it?

oh, nm

oops

[lilac kayak]

only gives a insignia and thats it

[hoary horizon]

How do we do fello boss?

Am not ogryn am jus big veteran

https://tenor.com/view/nervous-sweating-sweating-bullets-sweating-gif-17507069

[lilac kayak]

a smolgryn I see

[hoary horizon]

no... not ogryn... am big veteran... so what we fink bout ogryns?

[lilac kayak]

lots of ogryns so nice!

mmm make all lil uns play ogryns only for a day

ulgo don't need to carry lil uns if he had big uns to play with

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo prefer lil uns... is what Ulgo would say if he wuz here yes

[oblique totem]

The horrors persist.

[hoary horizon]

Huh?

[last parcel]

he's been through a lot

[hoary horizon]

Oh

[strange epoch]

do I get gold

[midnight totem]

spray and pray to the emperor complete

need another 1500 lucky bullets fired though

[oblique totem]

FatShark is to blame.

[midnight totem]

don't fatshame the shark

[north raptor]

its an obese megalodon anyway

[shadow aurora]

Replace weak spot damage and sustained fire and that's probably a great weapon

[oblique totem]

A rotund fish

[radiant chasm]

above average bmi aquatic creature

[midnight totem]

better

[shadow aurora]

Robust sea faring specimens

[bitter turtle]

skinny minnow

[bitter turtle]

yeah

I went there

they made the game LightEbb

[shadow aurora]

Prison

[umbral granite]

I managed to make my friend hate my grenade spam build by ruining his "clip moment" via throwing a frag grenade so far that it exploded mid air to kill the 1 lone sniper that he stealthed up to go and backstab.

Am I evil?

[radiant chasm]

nta step mom bad

[last parcel]

nta fuck around find out

[radiant chasm]

i want to say a third one but i think it's too far

[shadow aurora]

Do it and put it under spoiler tag

[radiant chasm]

nah someone might misconstrue it, not the audience where it would be acceptable

too deep in the meta

[shadow aurora]

Fiiine

[rigid pilot]

The hack is melee scab maelstrom

Since anything flak counts

Find a doorway, stack up all the flak carapace things

Krak

[trim steppe]

Holy shit, these rolls! But RIP that penetration

[rigid pilot]

That's crazy

[bitter turtle]

check if you can still hit the breakpoints

elite/maniac

https://i.gyazo.com/53a550eeecf4ce89e2e569156e79a76a.jpg

im so close

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-i-am-on-the-brink-meme-white-text-gif-26506151

[pseudo fiber]

you got this gamer!

[rigid pilot]

Hey if you finished the shroudfield penance, psyker and ogryn is a cake walk

[midnight totem]

hrm, opening salvo resets after with hipfire on lasgun

[radiant chasm]

yee it's quirky like that

just silly fatshark coding

[compact skiff]

I've been really liking this axe a lot more than the other melees for my melee vet build

The stagger on the special attack is pretty goated

[junior needle]

Taxe 4 is alright, the only taxe I'd consider to have an actual niche and not just be another weapon but worse

[rigid pilot]

What does the taxe do better than the knife? Honest question

[bitter turtle]

spam into a horde

not like

amazingly better

but its there

also taxe can achieve a higher crit rate

mostly meaningless in the context of vet

but i really

really like it for blazing piety crit cd meme

i know some might say xv eviscerator is better for it, but you need a horde to get fast resets with evis

taxe can do it on single targets too

[compact skiff]

it ain't really a meme if it's effective

Especially running it with Chorus

[bitter turtle]

yeah

i only call it a meme bc i feel like im the only person that is really big on it lul

everyone else just tells me "just use evis"

[fluid solstice]

So when do we get the next update?

[tall torrent]

Horde clear is higher

A lot higher

[tall torrent]

Because unlike knife ur weapon doesn’t have shit dmg distribution via BM (at least vs groaners & poxwalkers)

[fluid solstice]

[compact skiff]

Yeah I was surprised out how fast I was one-tapping heads consistently

I found myself holding my ground against a horde better at times than with either of the knives

[radiant chasm]

it's a meme when it's not the best at anything

[compact skiff]

That category belongs to Ogryn's power maul

[radiant chasm]

no ogryn maul is just shit

taxe is a meme

[compact skiff]

agree to disagree

[rigid pilot]

I saw a gamer doing taxe zealot solo carrying an entire game

[tall torrent]

I started playing executor on mk6 knife (veteran)

Executor might be it

Kind of better than mercy, even for veteran

[pulsar vine]

i want the backpack lmg for Vet tbh.

[hidden torrent]

when you think about it

[radiant chasm]

the game isn't that hard

you can carry with anything besides truly shit weapons

[hidden torrent]

PAUL CARYY

[rigid pilot]

No like full on 800k damage type carry

[radiant chasm]

yes

i did that with prebuff chaxe in one grueling game

and taxe isn't terrible

it's just aggressively mid

[hidden torrent]

slap only mace

[fresh jungle]

the main requirement to rack up massive damage on any weapon is that your teammates need to be bad at killing

[radiant chasm]

right place right time, and also just, knowing how to build. Just cause someone bottomfrags with a crit chance crit damage no skullcrusher Crusher, doesn't mean the weapon isn't insane rn

[fresh jungle]

It's definitely easier with some builds than others, but if the game is enough of a slog anything will get mad damage eventually

[hidden torrent]

It's easier with certain playstyles more so than certain weapons imo

[midnight totem]

well this is annoying

elite superiority and krak grenades don't kill a bulwark

[hidden torrent]

30% difference of tinkerer be like

[last parcel]

fire team

fuck tinkerer

[midnight totem]

yeah, its missing 5 percent damage

[last parcel]

covering meme

[hidden torrent]

Fuck you

[last parcel]

make your team cry

[hidden torrent]

Tinkerer is for the real G's

[midnight totem]

bring it down by itself will cover the bulwark one shot

unless its a nurgle buffed bulwark

[terse idol]

Tinkerer more like stinkerer

[hidden torrent]

Tinkerer let's you into heaven

Like if you love tinkerer, ignore if you hate breathing

[tall torrent]

It also depends on how much that person strays from the team
If someone has lowest dmg & kills but has 300~400+ plasteel pickups it’s still good imo

[last parcel]

0 plasteel
12-4-8 ammo
lowest damage

[trim steppe]

8 crates? How

You gotta be trolling for that to happen

[last parcel]

just shoot lol

[hidden torrent]

Shoot one bullet and pickup more ammo

Grief like I do

[wild vortex]

this worth upgrading?

[sturdy zephyr]

Hai.

Is there any alt weapon other than plasma for squad leader build?

[wild vortex]

the guide itself says nothing wrong with using what you like

I personally use a Laspistol

[sturdy zephyr]

I do test with automatic but idk it just not as effective when dealing with armored and monsters

[wise fossil]

Is there some group effort to get noobs to go and play maelstrom?

[sturdy zephyr]

Is there any other weapon have much more penetration as plasma?

[wise fossil]

Just saw a 30+2 ogryn get hit by a burster with no other enemies around.

he was using a Paul too

and that's just the most recent player

[fresh jungle]

I think it's the penances

[wild vortex]

[tall torrent]

No

[wild vortex]

sadge

I'll just squeeze the blessing

[midnight totem]

You need high first target

[hybrid torrent]

Deadshot agripinaa/kantrael shotgun with manstopper. Browny points if you have Full Bore IV.

[hidden torrent]

It's mainly new and console players coming to play Auric missions, never thought I'd miss the old Randoms

[sturdy schooner]

should i bother rolling for another revolver in the future or just

this is set to carry me in term of revolvers

[muted knot]

Yeah no that's definitely gonna be good

[sturdy schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/doggo-big-iron-gif-19017452

[muted knot]

The small increases you could get aren't really gonna change much

[sturdy schooner]

nice

i wish the fanfire one was better 😦

it feels so cool to use

[oblique totem]

The carrot is worse than the stick when it comes to Maelstrom

[sturdy schooner]

i have a pretty good fanfire roll but its just

it do not do it

[muted knot]

Same but I do still prefer weapons with useable ranged combat

[muted knot]

You kinda want crucian roulette on the fanfire one imo

[sturdy schooner]

thats the one that gives crit for each used round right

[terse idol]

Iirc surgical will still give a base % crit chance even on 1 stack

Sadly it seems surgical is still better

[tall torrent]

Swap maniac to elite

Ideally you want elite+maniac

But elite is the more important one

[woeful ibex]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/14/the-warhammer-skulls-video-games-festival-is-less-than-two-weeks-away/

Skulls for the Skull throne on May 23

[wild vortex]

Ok this is pretty stupid of me but it keeps happening once in a while and I need to learn how to fix it

[muted knot]

What breakpoint do you get with elite ?

[wild vortex]

Sometimes I get surrounded by a horde of poxwalkers and they chip me down and I go down

How do I prevent that

This was literally never a problem on Ogryn so I never learnt how to tackle it

[muted knot]

If you run frag grenades, drop them on your toes

[wild vortex]

Which in hindsight was kinda foolish

[muted knot]

In general it's more of a positioning thing

[midnight totem]

don't get surrounded

hug a wall

hug your teammates

[muted knot]

And tbh it sounds like your melee gameplay needs some work

[midnight totem]

use your ability to get out

[wild vortex]

Hmmm

[muted knot]

Use pushes

To control the chaff

[white minnow]

use a melee weapon that can dps down a horde

[wild vortex]

I use pushes but if I'm fully surrounded then it's still a problem. Though the games where I make it a point to keep pushes in mind this doesn't happen

[muted knot]

Powersword/chainsword are obvious picks imo

[wild vortex]

Yeah I'm using Chainsword rn

[tall torrent]

Both gunner crit 1 shot bodyshot
Scab rager crit 1 shot bodyshot
Crusher 2 crit headshot

[muted knot]

What's your roll on that CS ?

[muted knot]

Yeah that's definitely worth it then

[tall torrent]

Maniac gives u crit 1 shot bodyshot Dreg rager

[wild vortex]

It's not the best, Bloodletter and Savage Sweep with Flak+Elite

[muted knot]

Old Chainsword ?

[white minnow]

if you're on the mk4 chainsword, heavy spam hordes (there's a better combo but that's for later)
if you're on the mk13 chainsword, spam lights

[wild vortex]

Mk4 yeah

[white minnow]

both chainswords are one of the top trash clear melees

[tall torrent]

Bloodletter is ok for veteran

Savage sweep + bloodletter

[muted knot]

SS is good and blood letter let's you deal with basically any specialist in in special but I prefer SS/wrath and rampage

[wild vortex]

So basically, either use brain + eyes and don't get surrounded, or if I do, then take the L and hit ability / frags ASAP

That about right?

[white minnow]

p much

[muted knot]

If you do run frags you also want grenade Regen

[wild vortex]

Yeah I have that

[muted knot]

So you should never be at max grenades

Keep throwing them

If shit gets tough quickly pull it out and right click drop it

[tall torrent]

U don’t have to use nades for horde

Nades are mainly for mixed hordes that involve elites

[muted knot]

Also works for when teammates are getting surrounded

[sturdy schooner]

treat hordes like theyre an amoeba

watch the edges

[wild vortex]

[sturdy schooner]

push center chip away at the mfers trying to eat you in the amoeba

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/edging-cat-kitten-cute-small-gif-18175247588657073923

[wild vortex]

That's a good way to look at it I guess

[hidden torrent]

This is all I know how to do to bosses tbh

[oblique totem]

Psykers do that.

[muted knot]

@wild vortex I'll just point out the most obvious thing too: stick to your teammates, the chance of getting overwhelmed when. 2or more operatives are together goes down dramatically

[wild vortex]

Yeah mostly try to do that

Idk, I've played this game for like 70 hours and I still feel like a complete and utter scrub at times

[white minnow]

the game is in part balanced around mechanics that the average player probably won't know about because of their sheer non-explanation

[wild vortex]

Had a game earlier where I was on Ogryn, there was another Ogryn and 2 Zealots. The Zealots would just zoooooom ahead with their crazy Zealot movement speed and keep leaving the two of us to fend for ourselves. And I was on pure Achlys Glugger so not the highest toughness or solo ability. Ended up dying a LOT in that game

It was really fucking frustrating

[hidden torrent]

70 hours is just a baby

I've got over 10x that now, I have a few friends who have 30x that

[muted knot]

Don't worry it'll come to you soon enough, I didn't play for ages due to a lack of new content and could drop back into maelstrom right away

It's just a lot of stuff you gotta get a feeling for

[compact skiff]

I use this with my Executioner stance and manage to snipe gunners from far away after learning that the bullet shoots in a near perfect pixel in the center of the screen

[tall torrent]

Dw that’s normal

70 hours of DT is unironically beginner level

[wild vortex]

Hmmm

[tall torrent]

FS doesn’t explain most things very well

And the skill sets for 4 classes (besides basic fundamentals) are wildly different

[hidden torrent]

You'll be new until like 200 hours tbh, unless you're heavens gift

[muted knot]

Exec stance revolver feels like you would farm overkill damage but that's pretty based

[wild vortex]

Knowing me, probably more like 300

[rigid pilot]

Problem with exe stance Volvo is that it can't even hit oneshot bps without crit

[wild vortex]

But whatever. As long as each match is slightly better than the last

[rigid pilot]

And with crits it doesn't need exe

[hidden torrent]

200-300 isn't crazy bad tbh

[rigid pilot]

So 🤷‍♂️

[tall torrent]

My suggestion is to just try to minimize any dmg u take

[compact skiff]

the problem with Agripinna Revolver that it fails to hit certain thresholds without Marksmans stacks which is why I thought of this kind of build

[tall torrent]

Watch ur toughness bar, dodge & block attacks, minimize dmg taken

[hidden torrent]

Average player probably never gets good regardless of hours

[wise fossil]

surely this new +14 ogryn on maelstrom will be better

[tall torrent]

Try to do that better with every match u play

[wild vortex]

Right. I removed my 1 wound relic to force myself to try and git gud

Managed to not completely die last match so there's that

[white minnow]

i had a banger game where both the ogryn and vet didn't push bursters

[rigid pilot]

Very good way to improve as per usual is to learn from experts

[white minnow]

conseqeuntly, they both had 8+ downs

[wise fossil]

gotta love it

[white minnow]

kreigsman rp https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1057854953164656640/1239021907018383450/image.png?ex=66455d12&is=66440b92&hm=1d91e50adaf3468cd8634dc5e7c7eda38ca7b4ffa824f7ccb5abb2763a14372e&

[rigid pilot]

Watching some videos of duos might teach you a thing or two

[tall torrent]

Aim to minimize any sort of dmg u take

Is a pretty fast way to getting better

[hidden torrent]

Imo biggest thing that will define how good you are is situational awareness, knowing where specials are, spawns, teamates who need help and kinda sensing that

It's what will form you after the basics

[rigid pilot]

Map strategy is something not talked about either

How to hold certain events

Or how to overcome certain chokepoints

[wild vortex]

Hab Dreyko PTSD intensifies

[rigid pilot]

Hab dreyko gets alot easier if people camping each spawn point

[tall torrent]

Hab dreyko is actually not that bad

[rigid pilot]

Not all in the middle

If you can take out specials quick, it's easy

[white minnow]

i dislike hab dreyko by the sheer fact that the last few games have been pub duos for some reason

which made the finale more difficult than it should be

[tall torrent]

The rly bad ones in my experience are archivum sycorax, vigil station and excise vault

[rigid pilot]

Yea without stealth it's hard

[tall torrent]

Archivum sycorax big room can be quite hard if they just spawn a billion gunners

[rigid pilot]

But the funny thing about the new minigame is you can do it in stages

Since the white nodes are the same

[tall torrent]

Vigil station is just

Vigil station

[rigid pilot]

Sycorax I like to camp either the right or left side

Trying to fight at the lower level is too difficult

[tall torrent]

Not talking event

[rigid pilot]

Ah

[tall torrent]

The first big room after the gauntlet rush

Where the martyr skull is

If they spawn a ton of gunners it’s a bit fucked

[rigid pilot]

I like to force down the left elevated hallway

Dive into the room and sort it out from there

Until a boss spawns

[tall torrent]

Yea once ur past that then it’s pretty chill

[rigid pilot]

Then goodbye

[tall torrent]

Vigil station and excise vault are the easiest to mess up

I think vigil station is the hardest purely because of the lack of ledges

[sinful swallow]

That's the one with the scroll extraction right

[tall torrent]

Yea

[sinful swallow]

That likes to spam snipers and mutants

[rigid pilot]

Oh I was thinking of vigil station lmao

[sinful swallow]

Yeah I had a misery solo carry on that not too long ago

[rigid pilot]

But also similar

[tall torrent]

Vigil station is just hard throughout

[rigid pilot]

You need someone below to kill the bombers and snipers and you good

[tall torrent]

Vigil station first event without smoke/shield and they spawn gunners & snipers in 6 different positions

Sniper & gunners can spawn all the way back at the hollow statue

[sinful swallow]

Snipers debrained my randoms almost immediately on the hold and I never got enough space for res

[rigid pilot]

Someone needs to camp the left fence once the lift is pressed

There will be an elite wave there

[sinful swallow]

It's actually pretty intense when you're on last wound and see that laser drift towards you

[rigid pilot]

Idk why everyone insist on camping the lift entrance

Literally the worst position

Left room and fence is much safer

[tall torrent]

For sure

[sinful swallow]

It's l4d habits

Most people don't even realize they do it

[rigid pilot]

If there's too much shit you can even go upstairs easy

Right side is a dead end so a little sus

If too many flamers and bombers rip

[wise fossil]

very first fight, ogryn sees 8 ish maulers/crushers - immediately plants shield

[white minnow]

guh

[rigid pilot]

Ogryn vs zombies

[tall torrent]

Same people who camp low ground in consignment yard final event

Literally asking to get sniped

Camping the train is way safer

[midnight totem]

Woof

[rigid pilot]

Train seems to be popular

Train roof is nice for the ranged types

[wise fossil]

I have the same feelings about Hab Dreko end

everyone stands next to the door

[tall torrent]

Yea because it’s natural cover against 2 sniper spawn points

[sinful swallow]

I'll hold train with zealot or on top as vet/psyk

[midnight totem]

First auric damnation testing a new build with knife

[tall torrent]

And has opening to directly answer one of the specialist spawns

[rigid pilot]

Train roof can see the train elite wave spawn point too

[pulsar vine]

i started planting my shield in theater Container and have my team camp behind me :\

[rigid pilot]

With a voidstaff it's just fish in a barrel

[tall torrent]

Those people who camp low ground in consignment yard are just different

[sinful swallow]

New player moment

[midnight totem]

Don't think my knife had a problem

[rigid pilot]

But yea map strategy is something not really talked about even though it's probably 50% of game difficulty solved right there

[midnight totem]

But my vraks 3 I took into it did

[sinful swallow]

Imagine dead air finale but in darktide how would you hold that

[wise fossil]

There are loads of routes/camping spots/loops that are so much better

[white minnow]

gas truck strats

[rigid pilot]

Dead air wouldn't really work

Because you can outrun horde in DT

It's like the sycorax finale you can just run circles around the halls

[white minnow]

there's also the area by the fence in dead air that you can camp more easily since it's less risky to not be holding a chokepoint than in l4d2

[rigid pilot]

Or the repair manufactorum one

[tall torrent]

Holding both spawn is ok tho on archivum

[midnight totem]

Speaking of sycorax that's what just happened to me

[sturdy zephyr]

Going damnation or auric level any tips?especially for wargear rating.

[sinful swallow]

The fence hold is meta because with aim nothing gets close

There's no ranged threat besides tank rock and that's only relevant in vs

[tall torrent]

Are u familiar with minimizing taking dmg yet

[midnight totem]

I'd suggest the best wargear you're comfortable with. Preferably base 360 and above

[sturdy zephyr]

Nope. 😅

[tall torrent]

Might want to practice on lower difficulties then

[midnight totem]

Nah

Let's toss him in the deep end

Trial by fire

It's okay, because I'm done for the night

[tall torrent]

Trial by intermittent spectating you mean

[rigid pilot]

Trial by floor inspection

[midnight totem]

Still can't believe we pulled off that archivum run

Spent as much time picking people up and rescuing them as I did scanning

Ran around the arena once as the scan was going to avoid getting surrounded and killing snipers and bombers

Got the scan data and me and the remaining zealot booked it for the exit as the others died

[somber axle]

Nurgle demands you dance for his amusement and for your victory

[midnight totem]

No

[sinful swallow]

Big thing is get comfortable handling hordes and specialists by yourself

[midnight totem]

I only dance for a Sister of a Hospitalier Ordos

[sinful swallow]

You should be able to get through packs of pox walkers and groaners with hounds/trappers mixed in and not take chip damage

[midnight totem]

^-

[sinful swallow]

Especially when you push auric, the sheer density of enemies means youre gonna be preoccupied and so are your teammates

[midnight totem]

As long as you can handle a horde in melee by yourself

You're ready for damnation

[sinful swallow]

The melee part is extremely important, ammo is a resource

[tall torrent]

And be able to fight multiple crushers & maulers without getting downed

[midnight totem]

Now mix in a few elites, a trapper, bomber of your choice, a dog, and a mutant in that horde. If you can handle that, then you're ready for auric

[tall torrent]

Ragers as well

[sinful swallow]

Yes, movement and kiting for what you can't deal with is extremely necessary too

[tall torrent]

You just gotta train urself into the “they’re trapped in here with me” mentality

[sinful swallow]

You should be able to take boss aggro without dying too

[midnight totem]

Should be able to take boss aggro and not lose health or toughness

Work on dealing damage back later

[wise fossil]

I cannot stand this

holy fuck

I need to quit for the night

[sinful swallow]

You don't have to be try hard pure melee no damage solo DPS boss, but you should be able to hold them without problem until they swap aggro

[wise fossil]

pubs are absolutely unbearable

[sturdy zephyr]

Haha understandable

Yes still bit struggling in heresy

[sinful swallow]

What do you find yourself struggling with

And what's your load out looking like

[midnight totem]

What are your preferred weapons and abilities?

[sturdy zephyr]

Most the time got left back

Im using plasma gun

[sinful swallow]

What's your melee, F ability, and are you running any keystones?

[sturdy zephyr]

Certain random games we can push like butter sometime just get kick to the ball within 10min

[woeful ibex]

You guys think we get the Longlas soon by Skulls for the Skull throne event?

[sturdy zephyr]

Im running focus keystone

[sinful swallow]

As long as surgical is real (.2) and not what we got with hellbore I'd be all about it

[midnight totem]

You know, the plasma gun is so good I actually suggest vets don't use it when learning the game

[woeful ibex]

Honestly I always tell new veterans to stick with Lasgun Mark 12

Best all round gun on every difficulty

[sturdy zephyr]

The only gun i can get effective for now. Tried clumnus and shotty cant get dmg or help others

[midnight totem]

What's your melee?

[sturdy zephyr]

Im still reserving for high tier weapon to upgrape

Im using chainsword

[sinful swallow]

Which mark

[shadow aurora]

Dont tell them that if theyre on xbox

[midnight totem]

Reliable enough

[sturdy zephyr]

The cadia mark Xg sword?

[sinful swallow]

Both are good, but are used slightly differently

[sturdy zephyr]

I cant remember full name

Yes im still new to the game. Learning

[midnight totem]

The 13g

[shadow aurora]

I dont remember the names either you good

Fatshark naming conventions suck

[sinful swallow]

Mk4 uses heavies to clear horde, 13 uses lights and is spammier which might make it easier

[midnight totem]

Any chainsword, it's ideal to have a cleave blessing at mimimal

[woeful ibex]

wait you mean Mark 1 Lasgun?

https://warhammer-40k-darktide.fandom.com/wiki/Kantrael_MG_Ia_Infantry_Lasgun

[sturdy zephyr]

Im just usinh basic plsma for now waiting to get rating 350± for upgrdes

This the automatic one?or single fire?

[midnight totem]

No he means the xiiig chainsword, 13g

The infantry lasguns are all single fire

Anyway, does your chainsword have a cleave blessing?

[sturdy zephyr]

Nope

[midnight totem]

Cleave blessings are like, Wrath, Savage Sweep. Devastating Strike

[bitter turtle]

im always standing there lmao

[midnight totem]

What rating is it?

[bitter turtle]

free kills

[sturdy zephyr]

I only have lv 3 cleave 80% for 3enemy hits

[bitter turtle]

everyone always stands smack dab in front of the elvator to get shot

its baffling

[rigid pilot]

3 downed with snipers all shooting at them

[bitter turtle]

yeah

i dont get it

[sturdy zephyr]

Rating are 320 for cadia

[bitter turtle]

maybe they just dont think

[rigid pilot]

Play darktide like an ogryn

[bitter turtle]

"gee, I wonder why 10 gunners and snipers spawn every single time after we press the button"

"must be a coincidence" 🤔

[rigid pilot]

"I always die to gunners here, maybe this time will be different"

It is different if there's someone silently carrying

[midnight totem]

Ah. Well, you need some better weapons first then.

[sturdy zephyr]

Yes

[midnight totem]

Keep at it in heresy, build your bank, check Brunt for deals

[sturdy zephyr]

How lucky or easy to get higher rating?

[bitter turtle]

its rng

just mash "buy" at brunt until he gives you something with good stats

[woeful ibex]

ah right the Cadian Chainsword

[sturdy zephyr]

But impossible depend on levels too?

[midnight totem]

^

[bitter turtle]

then mash "consecrate" at hadron until she bricks it

[bitter turtle]

your chances of getting the best rating is at level 30

so dont bother buying until level 30

you were asking about auric so i assumed you were already 30

[midnight totem]

If you're under lvl 30, Brunts stuff isn't rated as high

[sturdy zephyr]

Im wayyy long for mats lease get from none to transcedent

Yes cause i found quite long to get heresy game in quickplay

I jusy play with random time to time

[midnight totem]

Well, it'll take a bit of practice, but you'll get there

[sturdy zephyr]

So sometime bad rolls or just 3 person

[strange epoch]

how do I build vet if I only want damage

[bitter turtle]

anyway

truthfully

this game isn't harsh on reflexes

[sturdy zephyr]

Thank you for input.really help clear thing for me

[bitter turtle]

you can mash dodge and push and avoid damage in melee lik e90% of the time

[sturdy zephyr]

I got 1shot at the back.i think there backstab

I just learned today

[strange epoch]

blocking is 360

[midnight totem]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-dodge-dancing-gif-9449699

[sturdy zephyr]

Wow okay that new

[midnight totem]

But attacks from the back will take more stamina for block

And deal more toughness damage

If they are not blocked

Gotta listen for those sound cues

[white minnow]

enemies do the same health/toughness damage front and back

[midnight totem]

They do? Could've swore they hit harder

Well pretend they do anyway

[white minnow]

https://streamable.com/3l8xy9

[umbral parrot]

They should make it where getting hit in the back does more damage. A harsher punishment.

[sturdy zephyr]

I just died with max toughness. Quite of time.

[bitter turtle]

misquote

flattened by a crusher?

[sturdy zephyr]

Alot of time. And sneaky bastard.

[shadow aurora]

PLEASE dont getting hit by a single poxwalker already takes away all my toughness😭

[tall torrent]

How much toughness do you have?

[shadow aurora]

Psyker😞

[tall torrent]

Oh

Psyker problems

Lack of TDR

[radiant chasm]

up to 33% based on peril is completely fine

[tall torrent]

it's alright but not nearly as high as other classes

[radiant chasm]

especially cause every build can get all 4 toughness regen talents and then whatever your keystone gives you for toughness regen

[tall torrent]

psyker is a lot more toughness regen than TDR

[radiant chasm]

i think that's fair, they have insane toughness gen options bording on old vet CK

actually

idk i'm doing the math in my head

old CK was stupidly insane

i guess psyker has the most insane toughness gen when fighting large amounts of chaffe, while old CK would outperform gunning down elites and specialists

[tall torrent]

old CK was turbo cracked yea

[radiant chasm]

but then psyker gets PC wildfire chain killing elites

[tall torrent]

psyker has very high toughness regen but worst TDR

ogryn has high TDR and high toughness regen

[radiant chasm]

part of what made old ck cracked was perma 75% DR from your ability that infinitely refreshed

[tall torrent]

veteran has high conditional TDR

[radiant chasm]

i'd say zealot is conditional regen, high tdr

[tall torrent]

sharpshooter veteran might be the weakest playstyle in the game rn

[radiant chasm]

nah

just takes a lot of effort, aka fps addicts who flick and pop heads

[tall torrent]

the effectiveness is not worth the point cost

[white minnow]

mostly cuz other builds can just kill stuff with guns anyways

even then you can just go PPPPPPPPSWORDING TIME

[radiant chasm]

sharpshooter already had a great ceiling it's just the average player sucked so no one took the keystone, now that's even easier

yee that's it arco

nailed it

[shadow aurora]

I hate sharpshooter. Kill that shit

[white minnow]

me when my marksman build has more melee damage than range

[shadow aurora]

New keystone

[radiant chasm]

ehh, idc i think the keystone is creative and rewards high skill

and not like, passive boost for pressing your ping button

[white minnow]

pretty basic but also expected for the ranged class

[radiant chasm]

i'd say squad leaders keystone should go and should just be a normal passive talent option that is just damage bonus like WHC

[shadow aurora]

I want to zoom around without losing my stacks

[radiant chasm]

you can

just hit headshot

[shadow aurora]

Xbox

[radiant chasm]

it's that easy

[shadow aurora]

Controller

[radiant chasm]

get a gyro controller

[white minnow]

so tragic

[radiant chasm]

practice

i've seen the insane console apex legend players

git gud

sorry

[shadow aurora]

I have been playing shooter games for 80% of my life

Ive already peaked

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-gif-18453366

yee but there is just, i think it was apex that popularized it

motion controls and tech

[umbral parrot]

The thing is, you don't get hit in melee~! XP

[radiant chasm]

yee block works 360 but idk how easy it is for xbox to swap+block on a sound que

cause it's easy as fuck on pc

[umbral parrot]

Oh crap

You're right

[shadow aurora]

Its easy but i think my swap button is fucked cause some times i just end up aiming

[tall torrent]

I don't think it's good enough still, at least for the normal sharpshooter guns

I guess if u run columnus mk5 with sharpshooter build then yea it's still super strong

but if u run smth like infantry lasgun it's just not that interesting

[wraith flare]

Infantry lasgun more like useless piece of metal

[tall torrent]

1 tap guns in general

u can only 1 shot something so hard

[shadow aurora]

Bro CANT headshot

[tall torrent]

they can use some buffs for sure

[wraith flare]

Oh yeah I can, I just prefer guns that don’t feel like ass and weak

[radiant chasm]

yee, i think it should scale with gun firerate

[shadow aurora]

I prefer hitting HEADS because im good at the GAME

[radiant chasm]

so faster firing guns have a tighter timeframe, slower guns aren't punished as hard

[tall torrent]

and it's like almost useless for boss dmg unless u crab

[wanton dawn]

Lasgun arent bad though

[radiant chasm]

SINCE when is inflas bad

[wraith flare]

Yeah they are

[radiant chasm]

HELLO

[wraith flare]

Always

[radiant chasm]

HELLOO

recon yes

[wraith flare]

Since beta

[radiant chasm]

helbores, been in a rough spot

[white minnow]

infantry lasguns have pretty good finesse multipliers

[wraith flare]

All of them, mega yikes

[white minnow]

just hit heads and you're good to go

[radiant chasm]

inflas mk12 was the meta for a while, and now the other variants are shining

[tall torrent]

MG12 is sad, 1a is good

[radiant chasm]

it's mega ammo efficient

[wanton dawn]

I mean, half of kejetok scoreboard features the ia

[radiant chasm]

it's high damage, consistent,

[tall torrent]

Mg12 is actually in a pretty pathetic state

[radiant chasm]

yea mg12 just got outpaced

but it's not terrible it's just, in a rut

[shadow aurora]

I like brown which ones that

[radiant chasm]

mid las crisis

[tall torrent]

that's mg12

[tall torrent]

it really is not fun to play

[shadow aurora]

Damn...

[radiant chasm]

like, I don't like inflas guns cause i prefer autoguns

but the inflas is not a bad family

[radiant chasm]

yea but that's like insulting your grandma cause she got dementia

just cause she fell off doesn't mean anything

[tall torrent]

MG12 requires actually every single +ranged dmg u can take to be able to 1 tap with a ton of caveats if u don't go exe stance

like at that point it's just ???

[shadow aurora]

Bro im with you but whats that comparison😭

[radiant chasm]

yes that's uhh

how balance works

the other variants got buffed because they were underperforming

now mk12 underperforms

i feel like i'm smocking crack here mg12 WAS the meta for a long period of time

[tall torrent]

MG12 needs like legit 25~30% higher dmg unironically

[wraith flare]

If I want to nerf myself I’ll use white weapons instead of lasguns

[tall torrent]

and I also think MG12 should get helbore cleave

[wraith flare]

And the floaty feel, ew

[shadow aurora]

15% maybe 25 is insane

[tall torrent]

no, 25%

maybe even 30%

u actually need EVERY SINGLE +ranged dmg talent

to 1 tap without exe stance

that is crazy

[radiant chasm]

yes

so everyone takes the variant that is better at 2 tapping

it's not rocket science we all know the issue

it's just, mk12 being bad doesn't mean the family is bad, ia is doing great and mk4 is just the recon lasgun for people who don't want to use recon

[shadow aurora]

I mean i feel like 15% could probably get you to the breakpoints you need

[white minnow]

though it makes sense that the middle variant would be the better generalist

[tall torrent]

I also think infantry lasguns need their flak dmg profile and reverse falloff alleviated a bit

[white minnow]

x12 keeps some better unyielding damage than the other two

to compensate

[tall torrent]

no because that still requires an absurd amount of talent investment to get 1 taps

[shadow aurora]

Hold on imma go into meatgrinder

[radiant chasm]

15% would lower than investment

and it's not like other weapons don't need a talent investment either

[rigid pilot]

Dreg gunners?

[radiant chasm]

rashad, heavy sword, etc etc

[rigid pilot]

Or shooter bodyshot

[tall torrent]

yea lower it by like 1 point because rn u need killzone up

so u don't need killzone anymore

and u still need EVERY OTHER +ranged dmg node

lol

[radiant chasm]

tbh i'm a favor for slow buffs at this stage

player power is already too high

mk12 is not as bad as shit like the paul or bolter

[tall torrent]

I came to this realization when I was doing weapon pages

some weapons just have way higher talent requirements to work properly

[tall torrent]

both gunner & both flamer

[radiant chasm]

it's in a shitty spot for BPs but there is nothing fundementally wrong with it otherwise

[tall torrent]

give it helbore cleave

[rigid pilot]

Flamers are cursed because maniac ADM for las lol

[tall torrent]

I believe MG12 deserves some cleave

specifically MG12

[rigid pilot]

Why did they even give flamers maniac

[radiant chasm]

mg12 +1 cleave

[tall torrent]

1a and 4 don't need it

[white minnow]

at least for gunners those are always at a range so you can rely on marksman focus + longshot + some others that you'll take along the path to easily reach it

[radiant chasm]

+2 cleave for mk2 helbore, +3 for mk1 helbore, +4 for mk3 helbore

[white minnow]

and then just slap +maniac for flamers

[shadow aurora]

15% would bring 12 up to the point to kill flak gunners with two shots

[radiant chasm]

your welcome fatshark

[white minnow]

not too bad if you just take marksman's focus

[radiant chasm]

actually correction, i have to follow fatshark's rules for this

[tall torrent]

ur not supposed to need 2 shots

[radiant chasm]

mk12 inflas +100 cleave

[tall torrent]

an Mg12 that doesn't get to 1 tap is irrelevant

[shadow aurora]

Thats with no talents

[frank ether]

So does v7 and agri revolver, pen is one of those things thats just always gonna be very high value

[radiant chasm]

agri revolver just suffers from sucks in comparison to it's sibling

[tall torrent]

v7 debatable because v7 has sorta different specialization

and v7 is a lot more flexible than mg12

[radiant chasm]

while mk12 inflas mostly just sucks cause the siblings are slightly ahead and it can't hit the peak anymore

[white minnow]

you can hit the BPs by taking marksman focus and other stuff along the path which i don't consider hard investments

and it makes sense that you should have to take marksman for BPs

[radiant chasm]

the issue is that the mkIa (and lesser extent mk4) hit the two hit BPs already

so why take a slower rifle with less ammo efficiency?

[tall torrent]

yea, doesn't matter

MG12 need the 1 taps

very consistently too

[radiant chasm]

besides if you have an mk12 from the olden days and don't want to swap, which i respect

[odd sparrow]

Yeah marksman focus seems mandatory for mk12 and focus got way better this patch

[tall torrent]

I also think vet should just get suppression immunity baked in

[radiant chasm]

mg12 needs to onetap, or the other 2 variants need to be nerfed into 3 tap territory is the only way i see it

[white minnow]

suppression should just be nerfed as a baseline for every class

[odd sparrow]

2 tap is fine

[white minnow]

the spread increase at least should be kneecapped

[tall torrent]

it's weapon dependant

it's not class dependant

[white minnow]

no no

i'm saying that suppression itself should be nerfed so that every human class beenfits

[tall torrent]

and different weapons have different levels of suppression

[white minnow]

yeah i know

but that's not what i'm saying

[tall torrent]

I think suppression makes sense for zarona

but not infantry lasgun

or boltgun

[white minnow]

i'm referring specifically to the spread increase when suppressed

the sway can stay

[wanton dawn]

I think lasgun need a hipfire that is not dogcrap ?

And a recoil that doesnt give you sea sickness ?

[white minnow]

doesn't even have the first shot accuracy like v7 hipfire does 😔

[tall torrent]

just buff the dmg pls obese fish

[white minnow]

damage seems fine

just take marksman and you're good to go

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus?

[white minnow]

ye

[tall torrent]

Might be ok for u but I don’t enjoy having to 2 tap enemies first to get my 1 tap breakpoints on a gun that’s extremely reliant on 1 taps

[shadow aurora]

Doesnt twelve get better unyielding tho?

[tall torrent]

Yea that matters for only 1 enemy

[shadow aurora]

Two

[rigid pilot]

With MF, couldnt the other lasguns also hit the BP?

[radiant chasm]

matters only for reaper and monstros

[white minnow]

you can always just shoot trash or take a perk to lower the requirement
and it's 2-4 enemies at most depending on the other talents you've taken

[radiant chasm]

which uhh

[shadow aurora]

Ok i see

[white minnow]

the fact that you don't like a playstyle is not a point against it

[tall torrent]

1, because MG1a puts up very similar dps numbers on BoN on top of being more flexible

[radiant chasm]

the others don't really struggle with either

[tall torrent]

Yea I’m not a fan of that, I want the breakpoint to be up all the time with no prep work

[white minnow]

🙂

[rigid pilot]

4a might be better if you want to run MF las

[white minnow]

what am i to even say about this

[tall torrent]

It needs dmg buff simple as

[shadow aurora]

Say about what

[white minnow]

and you can trivially reach the bp by just taking marksman, which is practically designed for a situation like this

god forbid you have to put the mildest effort into the game

[rigid pilot]

If mg12 base kit oneshots flamers then why even run helbore2

[shadow aurora]

Marksman is fucking lame though

[rigid pilot]

Helbore2 buff as well

[tall torrent]

Having to shoot 2~4 guys first so I can get access to major breakpoints that define how the gun performs is really not the way to go, in my opinion

[shadow aurora]

This is how we power creep

[white minnow]

that is hardly any amount of enemies though

and it makes sense for a marksman playstyle

[odd sparrow]

Stacks run out quite slowly now though so not that hard to upkeep

[wanton dawn]

Also standing still allows stacks up

And it works in melee

[rigid pilot]

It doesn't work in melee..?

[wanton dawn]

It stacks in melee...

[rigid pilot]

I highly doubt that

[white minnow]

they mean when crouching

with camoflauge

[rigid pilot]

Unless you mean you take the crab walk node

[tall torrent]

Standing still/crouch walking (and meleeing)

[radiant chasm]

tbf for console players the effort requires a whole new controller and style of playing

[wanton dawn]

Yeah ?

[white minnow]

yeah though that's just an "adapt to your controls" moment

[rigid pilot]

Why would anyone take the crab node

[white minnow]

and the game has a WEALTH of no-aim weapons/playstyles

[wanton dawn]

Because its good ?

[radiant chasm]

whole new controller is $$$ but you don't hvae to take marksman if you don't like it

[white minnow]

if you don't want to aim, there's a bazillion weapons for people out there

[tall torrent]

Because HB2 takes way less investment

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-then-gif-26630246

[rigid pilot]

Yea but you suggesting to buff MG12 now puts helbore 2 out of a job

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t tho?

[radiant chasm]

[rigid pilot]

If MG12 can one shot flamers why would I run helbore2

[radiant chasm]

we back to mk12 invalidating the faster helbores

[tall torrent]

MG12 doesn’t magically remove charging mutant trains & hounds

[radiant chasm]

time is a circle

[tall torrent]

MG12 also takes more talent points to get the breakpoints

[rigid pilot]

Bayonet

[tall torrent]

Yk what else also matters

Bayonet doesn’t put you out of exe stance

In fact bayonet kills refresh exe stance

[wanton dawn]

Too complex tech man

[white minnow]

sure and that's a problem with exe's stance

[tall torrent]

And HB2 actually gets like 2 breakpoints with exe stance

[white minnow]

it's pretty much a ubiquitous opinion now that it shouldn't be dropping on swap

either way, my stance is that marksman focus exists and is trivial to generate stacks and upkeep

[rigid pilot]

Idk if those features are enough for me to use it over an Uber mg12

[tall torrent]

Helbore doesn’t need rending either

[rigid pilot]

But it's all playstyle choices

[white minnow]

take perks if you want to lighten the stacks needed and whatnot since those exist
take opening salvo if you don't want to dedicate a perk for something like flamers

[tall torrent]

AFAIK rending strikes doesn’t boost HB2 breakpoints

But for MG12 u kinda need rending strikes for consistency

[rigid pilot]

Maybe they should just remove the 12

[tall torrent]

It just needs dmg buff and a small cleave buff

That’s my stance on it

I just tried marksman focus with the crab node

It’s a little better but you still don’t get the breakpoint when entering combat

And u still need to run a primarily +ranged Dmg build

There’s like zero melee talent in there

[rigid pilot]

Hard mode build

[white minnow]

yeah and that's just tradeoffs
builds where you can hit BPs and dive into melee talents is on the luxurious side of things

this is not an unreasonable tree to take

you're not making hard investments unless you consider taking marksman a hard investment

[tall torrent]

For reactionary shooting it’s still not nearly as good as most other guns

Especially considering MG1a doesn’t take nearly all this much set-up and runs with basically anything

[white minnow]

sure and that's just the nature of things

that's the intentional tradeoff that the middle variant is going to be more generalist

at least with respect to the inf las family

[tall torrent]

But the heavy variant doesn’t get to do what it’s supposed to do that well

The 1 taps are not always available and that puts it at a disadvantage versus every other gun that gets reliable 1 taps

[white minnow]

just take marksman
that's going to my response to that statement each time

[tall torrent]

And yes when I say reliable I mean always available

[white minnow]

marksman is not difficult to generate or upkeep

and if you don't like it and prefer just a better generalist build, that's fine

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus is just by nature not always available

[white minnow]

yes, instead it is almost always up in an engagement involving your gun

[tall torrent]

This build also takes 2 toughness regen talents so yea point economy is even worse

[white minnow]

sigh

i should've not taken them just to avoid this argument

i left 4 points on the table but that's still enough to not be nitpicked

[tall torrent]

That’s just sharpshooter vet in a nutshell

And you really don’t get 4 extra points

[white minnow]

taking two toughness talents is pretty standard if you want to be absolutely safe

[tall torrent]

Because you will need to spec 2 into rending strikes

[white minnow]

and not a hard investment either

[tall torrent]

So it’s really 2 points left

[white minnow]

what's rending strike for?

[tall torrent]

Consistency + flak dmg

[white minnow]

you're reaching scab gunner oneshots with mk12 marksman easily enough though

[sturdy zephyr]

Where do i know its rending dmg?

[white minnow]

if it's a fight involving ranged enemies, there are going to probablistically be more than enough trash to generate stacks

[tall torrent]

Having consistency is always good + 2 tap scab rager with lower stacks

[white minnow]

sure and that's an investment that you're marking on your own accord to reach more breakpoints

the fact that you have to make investments like this for breakpoints should be the norm

this is why i fundamentally disagree with your "buff the mk12" because it should be "nerf the other stuff"

power level is high

why are we buffing and not nerfing

[tall torrent]

Putting the entire tree to satisfy one weapon and the weapon still ends up performing worse than other 1 tap guns is not that great

[tall torrent]

Vraks 7 is perfectly fine?

[white minnow]

i guess, depending on what angle you mean by that?

it trades in maniac damage

though it can trivially reach the flamer one-shot which i don't like

[tall torrent]

V7 takes a very high amount of points and does extremely well in most regards against most enemies

[agile forge]

The maniac trade just makes it more point hungry iirc

I think you can get it to 1 tap the squishier maniacs

[tall torrent]

MG12 takes a very high amount of points and conditionally does very well against most specialists & ranged enemies and that’s about it

[agile forge]

It's mostly just dreg ragers and Mutants where it doesn't shine right?

[tall torrent]

You can get it to 1 tap maniac without +maniac perk

[white minnow]

a condition that is not hard to achieve

i can not be assed to think about the specifics, but breakpoints should indeed take some thinking and investment to do

that's my stance

[tall torrent]

But is still not always up whereas Vraks 7 can get all the conditions always up

[white minnow]

sure

i do not deny that the v7 is better

which is why i am specifically running the v7 right now

instead of the mk12

you do not need to preach to me about how it's better

because i already know

[tall torrent]

And Vraks 7 is not a gun that really requires a nerf either

So MG12 can use some buffs to get it at least close to where V7 sits rn

[white minnow]

depends on whether the issue comes from the tree or the gun
since on a weapon spec build, I can still reach the relevant breakpoints

[tall torrent]

Yes V7 also has the advantage of not being confined to pure sharpshooter

MG12 doesn’t get that luxury

[white minnow]

yeah yeah i know that the v7 is better

i do not need this repeatd to me

[tall torrent]

So MG12 needs buffs

Simple as

[white minnow]

others need nerfs

and the "condition" is just shooting heads for mk12

[tall torrent]

MG12 still need buffs

[radiant chasm]

Counterpoint nerf everything else

[white minnow]

that is the standard that things should be at

an extremely basic condition to reach breakpoints

[tall torrent]

You’d rather nerf v7 than buff mg12?

[white minnow]

absolutely

[tall torrent]

Ok lol

[white minnow]

we are in an era where the norm should be to nerf rather than to buff