veteran-class

[crude fiber]

Recons are fun if you build all the way into them. And pick up a bunch of ammo

[hearty panther]

nah i stand by the MKVId having always been good pre-13

still sucked at maniac damage, undoubtedly

but if you worked the reverse damage fall off and juiced it like any other vet gun it absolutely performed

[radiant chasm]

that was also just vet

[atomic badge]

Thank you. What did it for me was the secondary that highlights all human ranged attackers instead of just random. Am able to chain it quite a while now.

[radiant chasm]

you can juice anything on feats vet

[hearty panther]

it was also the fastest weapon with old stripped down

so the fastest unit in the game was vet

[somber axle]

Welcomes! That node lets you have permanent uptime on Executioner's Stance as long as there are shooters about to chain buff refresh and it is one of my favs for Exe Stance 😄

[zenith hinge]

how we taken the survivalist nerf?

[muted gorge]

is it possible to make the recon lasguns work? and if so which variant and perks and shit do you want on it

[hearty panther]

yes

[radiant chasm]

shocktrooper and just aim for heads

[hearty panther]

MKVI, Dumdum

after that its kind of a toss up, the 'right' answer is probably Infernus but you can make a case for w/e tbh

except for the salvo blessings

[tiny summit]

It has less value but it's still free ammo every 5s. So it still gives you ammo just unable to be sustained off it for an entire run while using your gun a fair amount.

[radiant chasm]

aka it's still the best blessing in the game

[hearty panther]

yep lmao

god some of the fukken cope i read about it tho

funny stuff

[radiant chasm]

"i'm out of ammo for over half the mission, this isn't fun"

"also you can't tell me to stop wasting bullets on every poxwalker and control my fire so i'm not wasting shots on dead targets"

"that's part of my fun"

[hearty panther]

my favourite

[radiant chasm]

psykers cdr aura isn't even that strong, it's the node right above it on elite/specialist kills

toughness DR needed a knock down but ogryn is coherency regen which barely matters

[hearty panther]

actual aura tier list

1. Survivalist
2. Psykinetics Aura (not actually an aura)
3. almost indistinguishable from the rest

[radiant chasm]

add in all the bonuses squad leader gives out

[hearty panther]

whats squad leader

oh do you mean middle tree

[frank monolith]

its bad, before the nerf, I dont even run out of ammo on my zealot gun which i barely use but since the nerf i eat like 2-4 red ammo box

[radiant chasm]

yea

[radiant chasm]

if you are hitting red on any class that isn't gunker, you are the issue

[chilly cobalt]

Is paid cosmetic shop still on Elysian troopers?

[radiant chasm]

zealot is melee focused and is encouraged to use ranged at most in short controlled bursts

[white minnow]

so sad that i have to actually pick up ammo now

[radiant chasm]

just grab a few small packs if you are on yellow/orange and you'll make it through

[white minnow]

the 1000% ammo and the 2 ammo packs on the map now have to be adopted

i've had a couple of games with 2/3 gungryns so far and it's been fine

also it's not like teams without survivalist before the nerf was uncommon either

[radiant chasm]

first game post patch i went agri brauto vet just to test how bad the nerfs were and i had to pick up like 4 small ammo crates more than normal

[somber axle]

Second page yeah but there's a new page with cool armour for Vet

[frank monolith]

you see thats the problem i dont realise that im at yellow ammo after being used to having a permenant uptime on survivalist , i only realise it when my character shouts I NEED AMMO, AMMO NOW

[somber axle]

Some neat heavy armour in black with a CANDLE

[radiant chasm]

that doesn't make survivalist bad tho

[hearty panther]

smh vets stealing zealots candles

what will u fkers do next

[chilly cobalt]

I missed caydeeuhn carapace leg armor, trying to catch it

Trying to find something matching for the new penance chest piece

[somber axle]

Yeah Recons are fine depending on who you ask. They're weaker than some other guns but have surprisingly good ammo economy if you use Shock Trooper and Headhunter for free shots on crits and stacking crits on headshot. Mk VId and Mk VIIa are the good ones but VId requires more talent point investment to work imo while the VIIa can work just fine running the same sort of Lasgun Talent Build you would use with Laspistols or Kantrael Infantry Lasgun Rifles. Mk II is in a weird spot and weaker than the other two but still serviceable imo. Just don't expect to compete on boss damage or special/elite kill potential with some of the meta guns. They're still fine to play with on Auric Damnation and Standard Damnation. I've run them in both

[chilly cobalt]

(One with purity seals)

[somber axle]

I'm at work and can't go into my whole speech on Recon guns but they're good guns Bront

[oblique totem]

How's my favorite channel doing today?

[frank monolith]

Sorry my fault for calling it bad I should have said less op since the nerf, after thinking about it it can be seen as good/better choice compared to other auras, the nerf just made me sad men. they should have atleast made it so 5 seconds of full uptime for the perk so you can still kill pack of elites/specialist of enemies and still get the same ammo value, but it has a cd of 25 seconds where you do not get any ammo on any elite/specialist kills 👀

[somber axle]

Oh also Survivalist Aura nerf is fine imo and warranted. Apparently the number of ammo tins and ammo packs was buffed with the update so it just means more exploring and looting for people who spend their ammo like they're on a Vegas vacation

Some weapons feel the ammo pinch more than others. I've seen some Plasma players devouring ammo more than Gunlugger Ogryns when I used Scoreboard

Spamming shots with Plasma makes the gun very thirsty for the average player post Surv Aura nerf but a lot of the really good Vet players here have barely felt the change and still use Plasma just fine

[radiant chasm]

they were buffed a while ago iirc, when they changed the guaranteed amount of ammo pick ups and packs

[somber axle]

I want them to rework Surv Aura entirely tbh. Destroy the ammo returned per kill every 5 sec. Make it a blanket aura buff to give +5% or +10% to ammo picked up from tins and packs

[frank ether]

Nah

[rapid palm]

yeah I use plasma with survivalist and I manage fine, do get a bit low sometimes

[frank ether]

thats bad

[somber axle]

Probably as prep for the Surv Aura nerf. It became really silly that some people considered having a Vet with Surv Aura mandatory for some content LMFAO

[tall torrent]

that's bad

[frank ether]

you'll get people camping on ammo tins screaming at you for your aura s

[radiant chasm]

yes, it's like most auras

[somber axle]

Yes. I want this knowing that it would objectively change how Vet is played

[rapid palm]

this is why its a bad idea

[frank ether]

remove it entirely and replace with another flavor

[tall torrent]

I mean bad as in it not only encourages worse player behaviour but is also just straight up a much inferior version of the +25% reserve ammo talent

[somber axle]

Nah the average player isn't going to care to that degree

[rapid palm]

honestly the porblem now isnt survivalist, imo its balanced now, its just that the other two auras SUCK

[frank ether]

be it stamina or weakspot flavor, anything goes

[somber axle]

No way you get Gunkers or Gun Zealots sitting on a tin/pack and pinging the spot over and over to tell the Vet to move near them LMFAO

[tall torrent]

it also won't change the blitz -> aura section talent choices much

because frags are still the go-to

worst case u see more people with tinkered frags and that's it

[frank ether]

just today some kickback ogryn in scab only maelstorm kept voicing me for ammo box at the entry tunnels

you dont need gun builds for this to happen

[somber axle]

Yeah players who beg for ammo crates are already in the game so like why would this change anything

[tall torrent]

this aura would also be entirely useless in no ammo maelstrom so, an extra thing to think abt

minimizing an aura's impact is fine

[frank ether]

you just need someone with a gun who doesn't understand ammo conversation and thinks its your job because you're given the ammo aura

[somber axle]

I'm fine with that tbh

There are already objectively useless Blessings in game

[frank ether]

its just bad

if sharpshooter vet needs more ammo it can be given to them in marksman focus or exe stance

[somber axle]

Fatshark game design seems to purposely put choices that are wrong to use in certain or even all situations compared to alternatives

[tall torrent]

having an aura literally not work at all is not a good thing idk how else to explain it to u

[frank ether]

design the games ammo economy without any auras in mind and balance things as such

[zenith hinge]

considering the fact that mist of the games options are solid choices, even if niche ones, hard disagree

good game balance here

[frank ether]

the only rock paper scissor thing I can think of is carapace armor and really only crushers at that

[somber axle]

Sure but that is exclusively one scenario that it would be wrong for. Every other level, every other difficulty it would balance out ammo better by allowing devs to focus on tins/packs as far as number of spawns to balance out ammo for squads. On the flipside having an Aura be the end all be all is wrong too and it was mandatory before. It still sorta is now for certain builds

[somber axle]

Ask Psykers how they feel about Terrifying Barrage in any staff

Get back to me when you've finished hearing them yell about it LMFAO

[zenith hinge]

I said most things. providing exceptions doesnt disprove my point

[hearty panther]

Shock and Awe.

The ... roughly eighty-two blessings that just mean "impact on hit"

[frank ether]

psyker players delusion levels are only second to vet only players so

[hearty panther]

haha nooo

no

[somber axle]

Ok so there are lots of other Blessings bad. Falter is another. I could make you a list but you can see where I am going with this

[hearty panther]

vets are definitely the most delusional

[somber axle]

Literally objectively useless to use Falter on a Helbore

[hearty panther]

Efficiency on the Lasguns

What is that even trying to be.

[tall torrent]

do you rly not see the counterintuitive logic if the "more ammo" aura does legitimately nothing for the "no ammo pickup" mission

[zenith hinge]

blessings and perks are the weakest area in the games balance, but also the least important attributes so a list of bad blessings doesnt really matter either

[hearty panther]

yeah it'd be fukken hard and awesome

[somber axle]

There are a lot of just blatantly bad blessings that have little to no value and most people consider their weapons bricked if they have them

That's how the game is designed whether you like that balance or not

[tall torrent]

that blessing needs to get yeeted straight up

[zenith hinge]

the topic beforehand was passives and stuff anyway

[somber axle]

I do and I prefer it that way. There's still a surplus of ammo in the game tbh. Squeeze us harder for ammo efficiency and watch ammo efficiency blessings/talents start to shine by becoming more valuable than straight damage talents/blessings

It becomes an actual choice

And not just "don't use those they're unnecessary"

[hearty panther]

give everyone throwing knives thats my answer

[frank ether]

thats now how talents are designed

talents are designed to be interesting

blessings are designed to quite literally waste your time

[tall torrent]

ur also wrong in that because scab no ammo is the only modifier where you need much higher dmg due to mauler, scab rager and crusher spam

[frank ether]

this is an unfair comparission

[somber axle]

Yeah and some guns even now are objectively bad to take there. Tell me you use a Braced Autogun in that

[tall torrent]

so no, your way of thinking of balancing that node by making ammo save blessings "more attractive" doesn't work

[somber axle]

The design is intentional

You balance your build and loadout for the mission.

There are objectively wrong choices

[frank ether]

who does this

I've never done this

[tall torrent]

and nobody would take ammo save blessing still

[somber axle]

Not even just bad choices that will struggle, but choices that will not work

[hearty panther]

me when i quickplay into a lights out with my DD psyker 😦

[somber axle]

I think they would if it meant shooting more tbh

[somber axle]

Me and people like me

[tall torrent]

it just does not compete with blessings that make u kill things better

[somber axle]

Are you saying you have never used Exe Stance and Smokes foe Vent Purge Sniper Gauntlet?

[tall torrent]

no

[somber axle]

Tailoring a build for a mission modifier makes it fun imo

[somber axle]

We just have different ways of playing then

[frank ether]

again, you're not playing a rock/paper/scissors game, its quite the opposite

[rapid palm]

I do talior my loadouts, but that doesnt mean the blessing pool isnt bloody broken

[frank ether]

every build, every class is designed as such they can handle anything on their own

sure if I tried I can make some really specialized builds, but thats besides the point

[somber axle]

If you want to use one loadout for everything that is your choice but you also need to recognize some loadouts are just objectively wrong to take on certain mission modifiers and Maelstrom no ammo is a perfect example of that because most of the Vet arsenal is now useless

You actively want to use certain meta weapons and something like a Helbore Mk I, II or III with crit and Shock Trooper shines

[tall torrent]

most of vet arsenal are not useless in no ammo maelstrom
I'd strongly suggest u play a few no ammo maelstroms to get a feel for it

[somber axle]

Bring Shredder Autopistol, Laspistols, Braced Autoguns, Recons, Kantrael Lasrifles, etc. against Crusher spam and tell me it works

I can add more to that list too

You will empty a Boltgun in a few minutes

[tall torrent]

thinking ammo save blessings will ever outcompete +dmg blessings in no ammo maelstrom is simply unrealistic

that's what I'm telling u

[frank ether]

2/3 of the talent tree is very useful in no ammo mael and even the sharpshooter tree, anything except exec/marksman focus very viable choices

[tall torrent]

even if efficiency made your infantry lasgun never consume any ammo ever it still wouldn't be a good pick for no ammo maelstrom

talents are not balanced the same way as blessings because they are very different things

your talent points are always finite

[somber axle]

I don't really care for just that mission modifier, it's an example. I want the overall game ammo economy to change to make ammo efficient weapons/blessings/talents to become more valuable by the game design changing to make them more valuable by way of less ammo from auras, tins and packs

If this sounds awful, it is exactly the kind of awful I love

[tall torrent]

blessing balance having a bunch of shit tier options is bad yes
it's also much more tolerable because u have more resource to eventually roll smth u want

talent points are limited

[frank ether]

this is just hint for fatshark for the upcoming crafting rework

[somber axle]

And a rework to Surv Aura to make it give back more ammo on tins and packs would be much easier to balance than Surv Aura giving back ammo on special/elite kill

[frank ether]

they designed a system with bad options in purpose to waste time

[somber axle]

Better for the game imo

Even if it makes Vets angry

[frank ether]

if you're gonna just make survivalist garbage honest to god please just delete it

like I don't want it nerfed

I want it gone

yeeted

deleted

[somber axle]

Voice of Command needs a nerf too and heavy handed nerfs imo. A lot of people who run it would be mad and I don't care because I think nerfing it would improve the overall game health to be so much less reliant on how strong it is. It's almost mandatory tbh

[frank ether]

I don't want people screaming at me to come near coherency for their ammo

thats horrible

[somber axle]

Mandatory is dumb imo

[frank ether]

nothing I hate more than forced support interactions in games

[tall torrent]

make the ammo gain apply to veteran only, and make it baseline trait
replace survivalist with smth like +reload speed aura

[somber axle]

That's literally what VoC is though

[frank ether]

then its not an aura, why not give it to exe stance at that point?

[somber axle]

Do you hate VoC?

[tall torrent]

yea replace it with a different aura

[frank ether]

yeah, pretty much

[somber axle]

Honestly I wish they would and give us something not at all related to ammo gain as a replacement

Ammo is still too easy after the update imo

[tall torrent]

I think vet should at least be able to get a tiny amount of ammo from special/elite kills tho, just my opinion

[somber axle]

Squeeze our ammo pockets harder

[somber axle]

Could make it a node like how Psykers get that CD reduction thing

But apply only to Vet

I'd accept that if only to get rid of Surv Aura

[frank ether]

I think sharpshooter vet should be able to somewhat self sustain, after investing like 22 something points into nothing but ranged weakspots

[somber axle]

I want something more interesting/fun

[frank ether]

I thought giving this kind of passive to marksman focus but its easy to slap marksman on your voc build, so exec is the only logical choice

[white minnow]

yeah, just remove it as an aura and make it only for the vet and work from there

so that you don't fund the ogryn war machine

[somber axle]

Gunlugger Ogryns will be mad but tbh they will be ok. They'll just eat more tins and packs to compensate and they already are after the update nerfed Surv Aura

[old quail]

racism

[white minnow]

go away ogryn main

[somber axle]

I like the risk reward of hunting for tins and packs more than just passively getting ammo tbh. Exploring more of the map means more match time and more time for the AI director to spawn nonsense that could put you in trouble if you are caught out of position

[tall torrent]

gunlugger is literally kept in check by not having unlimited ammo

[somber axle]

Yes and I like that

They previously relied heavily on a Vet

[old quail]

more classes could use unique ways of ammo generation (not ogryn)

[somber axle]

Now they don't need to care if a Vet is around because the Aura has very little value for them post change

[white minnow]

the one argument against looting is that the map design is eh cuz a lot of sidepaths require you to constantly backtrack onto the main path instead of it looping back onto the main path, but that's a next issue to solve for another time
ammo at least isn't even an issue baseline fortunately

[tall torrent]

disrupt destiny gain 1% ammo on weakspot highlight target kill (5s cooldown)

[old quail]

ammo as a resource should probably baseline be more scarce but you should have playstyle specific ways to mitigate it that require some sort of "themed" gameplay

[somber axle]

Still valuable, but not something that lets them feel feast or famine gameplay dependant on a Veteran with Surv Aura around

[hearty panther]

fkn cat

at least i didnt have some embarrasing shit on my copy paste there

[radiant chasm]

very little value is a massive overstatement

[somber axle]

Yes absolutely and I want this so much

[radiant chasm]

survivalist still helps those classes a ton

[tall torrent]

surv still helps gunlugger & gun psyker quite a bit

[somber axle]

Yes see my other comment about it

Still helpful but not so dominant

This is the correct move imo

[old quail]

gun psyker gets assail so u basically just have infinite ammo since there's almost 0 penalty for spamming it

[somber axle]

Now make it so Gunluggers can operate independently and care less about Vets with Surv Aura

[tall torrent]

move it to veteran baseline (only benefit veteran) and change survivalist to a different aura

[somber axle]

Yes please

[radiant chasm]

gunluggers can already operate independently

they got lucky bullet buffed

[tall torrent]

yea at the cost of like 6 ammo bag + 10 ammo tin + 2 crate charges if they forget to let go of M1

[somber axle]

In a team of other Vets, Gunluggers, etc. the ammo ends up scarce and a Gunlugger will be consistently yellow/orange/red through a mission competing for ammo depending on how ammo hungry others are

I'd like if they could be more independent and less screwed over depending on team comp tbh

[radiant chasm]

that is the downside for ammo heavy teams

you get 1000%+ 2 boxes worth 1000% each

3000% ammo on a map

[tall torrent]

I had a game on zealot where I'm running red on throwing knives because this t'augryn won't shoot specials and he just casually slurps up all the ammo from the game

[radiant chasm]

one survivalist vet will more then compensate for it, you just can't spray willy nilly and waste ammo

[somber axle]

And a big upside for Psyker/Zealot teams. While doing my Zealot penances earlier I had 2 Psykers and a Gunlugger Ogryn. Both Psykers were staff. The Gunlugger got free reign of tins/packs. It must have been a dream come true. The dude got to spray through the whole map and I loved that for him

[tall torrent]

box is 400% tho? 100% x4 charges

2 box is 800%

[somber axle]

I was all melee all the time because I am in love with Thunder Hammer

Big bonkin time

Almost done with Zealot penances and soon to begin Ogryn

Just need immolation kills, stun Grenade 1500 stuns

[tall torrent]

Yea for ogryn just queue sedition and hold M1 the entire game while vacuuming all ammo on the map

[terse idol]

Well to be fair this is the balancing factor

[tall torrent]

Ur gonna need to shoot 37500 shots for the lucky bullet penance

[terse idol]

Folks do want to always shoot for picking a gun build

But uh, it's not feasible

[somber axle]

But I hate playing on any difficulty lower than Damnation unless leveling a fresh character

I'd rather suffer on higher difficulties grinding

[gaunt hinge]

Tau'gryn

[somber axle]

I suffered through Loner and Krak penances. I will suffer through this too gladly because Gunlugger is currently my fav Ogryn playstyle

Just play normally and passively unlock through gameplay I already do is my fav way of earning penances

[radiant chasm]

yea i'm bad at math

mega stupid

[somber axle]

Depending on the team comp/mission difficulty and modifiers yeah. Too much ammo competition weakens the whole team but that's the nature of quickplay pugs and the kind of chaos I adore

Make things harder

I crave it

[tall torrent]

Would u rather give your team brain damage instead

[somber axle]

Yes and I have played with teams like that

They needed hard carrying

[tall torrent]

No I mean the way to get that penance fast is literally to hold m1 and shoot the entire game

The faster u get it done the less brain damage you suffer

[somber axle]

It is pure elation having a squad cheering me on as I solo a Chaos Spawn on Zealot while dancing around special disablers and hordes to push solo to the next checkpoint and revive them all

I live for those moments

[tall torrent]

U can also private orthus

Guaranteed ammo crate spawn

Shoot 100% + 100%x4 ammo then leave

Repeat

[somber axle]

Oh no. I don't want to be a T'augryn LMFAO

I actually really love melee combat in this game

[somber axle]

This is a crazy strategy though and thank you. I will keep it in mind if the grind ends up being more painful than I am expecting

[tall torrent]

You can finish that penance in ~10 attempts with this

[tall torrent]

Besides that one the ogryn penances are very simple & straightforward albeit a bit tedious

They don’t force u to go out of ur way to get them

Unlike veteran & zealot

[somber axle]

I'm getting close to 4000 penance points so Ogryn should tip me over the edge

Then it is just hunting for the last few hundred to finish up this battlepass

[tall torrent]

I’m at 4305 rn

[somber axle]

Nice!

So close you can almost taste the Moebian cosmetics

[tall torrent]

190 points to get from finishing all missions on auric damnation (10 missions left)

[somber axle]

Also brb I am at work and spent too long rambling here

[tall torrent]

Then I’ll have it because I’ll also get 5 points from doing 20 auric missions and I’m at 11

[somber axle]

Too much time being a clown

Need more time being a functioning adult irl

[austere pine]

i, personally, can smell then from a little under 3k

i suggest you get your nose checked out, it's pretty pungent

[bitter turtle]

I'm at 4k

But I haven't down ogryn ones much

I really can't stand playing oger

I gotta go fast

And oger slow

[tall torrent]

u on rn?

[somber axle]

That's just the collective number of Loose Cannon Vets being so stinky that Melk comments on their "unenviable aroma" more than any other class including Ogryns

[austere pine]

rather stink than have a stick up my ass

[somber axle]

Agreed

https://tenor.com/view/nat-geo-nat-geo-wild-cat-rolling-dirt-gif-5501964

[last parcel]

better to piss in the sink than to sink in piss

[white minnow]

i saw sink pissing mentioned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEG9sh7tnjY

[low yacht]

What

[mortal horizon]

hows my power sword + plasma build?
any other alternatives I should be using?

[tall torrent]

do u want to 1 tap gunners and flamers with plasma

[mortal horizon]

what would i change if i did?

i dont usually 1 tap gunners rn would be nice for sure

[tall torrent]

get superiority complex, then either redirect fire (middle keystone) or longshot

if ur plamsa has <78% in dmg or SP u might need both redirect fire & longshot

[mortal horizon]

what is longshot

dont see it

ohh top left

so you have to have the tagging keystone to 1 tap them?

and if i want to lean harder on my PS the build i have is ok tho right?

it feels good but i dont 1 tap gunners/flamers

[bitter turtle]

you can drop recipocrity

pretty meaningless on a psword

[mortal horizon]

ok good tip, lets me pick up +25 toughness or something else

Deadshot, longshot, determined (suppression immunity), +25% ammo (fully loaded), Field improvision (improved med and ammo crates) or +25 toughness all options for that point lmao

crazy how many good nodes vet has

what would you spend it on?

i could grab another keystone passive (with current build, not the focus target swap)

[bitter turtle]

if nothing else

demo team is always nice

toughness on swap is decent too

[mortal horizon]

ya true, ty ill mess around

plasma blessings

i have blaze away gets hot.

but i thought Volatile and shattering impact decent too? Especially Volatile

but they're not mentioned, only gloryhunter is

so are those 2, especially volatile, not usually preferred anymore?

im working off older knowledge, few months

[slow spade]

Volatile just objectively bad

I don't think it was ever good since post-Patch 13

[somber axle]

Current meta with Plasma is never used Charged Shot ever because TTK/ammo spent is the same even on a Crusher when spamming uncharged shots and the only difference is a slightly higher cleave value that ends up not being very worth since even uncharged Plasma shots have fantastic cleave

Volatile isn't worth because of that

Blaze Away and Gets Hot are better because they support that playstyle

I still used Charged Shot with my Plasma on the rare occasions I use it because it's fun but the possibility to explode on charged shot steers a lot of Vets away from it because there's risk-reward to Charged Shots vs using Uncharged Shots without threat of exploding ever

All reward and no risk

[wraith locust]

doesnt volatile increase rof for non charged

[somber axle]

Killing multiple specials/elites spread out (and even small groups clustered in lines) is better with Uncharged Shot in almost all scenarios

[somber axle]

No

[wraith locust]

i swear it used to

maybe they changed it

[last parcel]

key word there is used to

[mortal horizon]

ya i never have problem overloading. I dont use it a ton but I do when theres a super dense line of shotgunners or something running out you, ragers, maulers etc. Good for those situations. Gotcha - thanks for the breakdown

vets my least played class so

[somber axle]

Vet is my most played and even though I am a Recon main clown I have experimented with pretty much every Vet weapon to some degree. Though there are other Vet mains here with more experience especially in weapons I don't find fun to play

If you ever need info on Recons or Helbores lemme know

Lasguns are my fav

[mortal horizon]

the helbores are alright

i havent used recons a lot

i dont love how they dink off armor tho

helbores feel a little slow for me in auric

i usually use plasma, revolver, braced auto or columnus iag

[somber axle]

Mk II Helbore bayonet stab is one of my fav things to do and I got to do funny Psykanium experimentation to prove Helbore Mk II has a consistent 2HKO potential on Crushers and even 1HKO potential on them too with a really specific and dumb build under combat stim

2HKO Helbore Mk II is easier to do and doesn't require combat stim at all

[mortal horizon]

oh ya i forgot they buffed the stabs lol

[somber axle]

But it is funny knowing that I could go to town instagibbing Crusher trains at light speed with a good combat stim

[mortal horizon]

the helbore 3 felt alright vs armor

and crushers ya

[somber axle]

Hate Crushers

[mortal horizon]

but its slow

[somber axle]

Kill Crushers

Helbore Mk III has consistent 1HKO set up vs Crushers

[mortal horizon]

thats cool

[somber axle]

It can do it reliably with less investment than a Mk II trying to do 2HKO as a Crusher breakpoint

[somber axle]

If they feel slow try a good Mk II Helbore with 70%+ in damage, stopping power and charge rate with Surgical and Weight of Fire. Grab Unarmoured perk for Dreg Gunner 1HKO breakpoint and Maniac perk for 1HKO Flamer breakpoint. You can skip Crusher perk unless you are like me and become a Crusher killing clown at any and every opportunity

[last parcel]

FUCK crushers

All my homies hate crushers

[somber axle]

Fuck the Crushers

[austere pine]

i like crushers actually

guaranteed krak kill

[last parcel]

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-pillow-bite-angry-angry-cat-gif-25541136

Me whenever I see a Crusher

Love my Thunder Hammer on Zealot for slamming them

[frank ether]

yea

[somber axle]

Quickplay pugs fold weirdly often when confronted with anything more than 1 Crusher so I build to protect them from the occasional Crusher train

It is weirdly satisfying hunting them down

[frank ether]

me taking 157 d.claw swings to kill a single crusher

and then being told I could just parry it

good times

[austere pine]

can you full parry a crusher overhead?

[potent iris]

this is tru

which is odd because I find elite trains far less problematic to deal with than special waves

[somber axle]

Yeah they're so slow and easy to dodge

People just eat their hits straight on and end up on their knees waiting for a rescue

I can't explain why

[potent iris]

I can eat a couple hits from a rager np but if I get hit by a net I'm probably doomed

[late hatch]

parry on maulers and crushers is what makes the dclaw so good

[potent iris]

yeah if dclaw didn't have the parry it'd be super underwhelming

[austere pine]

saw it used best against ragers

[somber axle]

I love having no fear fighting a rager with a Dclaw. Literally just parry and aim for the head for a 1HKO

[late hatch]

Its good but harder vs ragers since they attack in rapid combos

[frank ether]

yea but it will be very expensive if you don't time it well

and nearby chaff can eat your parry resulting in your instant demise

[midnight totem]

I forget, what to put on a combat axe, unarmored right?

brutal momentum 1 xD

[austere pine]

man i say put a better BM on that

[midnight totem]

take a picture its gonna be gone

[austere pine]

perks are fine like this but the BM's gonna hurt

[midnight totem]

this is actually on my zealot

its fine, really

[austere pine]

i'd do unyielding to maniac rather than unarmored

[frank ether]

%100 the parry carries it hard, I think sometimes to its detriment even, its very very depending on it as a weapon to function.

[austere pine]

for easier specialist kills

[midnight totem]

true that, I fought a rager that seemed like he took one too many hits to kill too

[potent iris]

yeah it's pretty sad against anything beefier than a mauler without the parry

like on dclaw zealot I more or less abuse chastise spam and laspistol to deal with carapace because it's just the simplest solution

[late hatch]

unarmoured will let you do the 1 hit thing on the melee guys, flak is generally more useful but I often like unyeilding for bulwarks and bosses.

[midnight totem]

I figure I won't need unarmored

zealot's got enough melee bonuses during the thick of it

[late hatch]

I run the atrox a fair bit

I have a few variations, it goes pretty hard

[midnight totem]

I feel tactical axes are like "I wish I was a knife"

[late hatch]

The mk2 hits like the rashad but heaps faster swings

lawnmower mode for hordes

[somber axle]

I need to try that one

I've wanted to try the Rashad but it needs so much for a good roll on stats/perks/blessings

Maybe Atrox is an easier roll

[last parcel]

I just did it on martyr zealot

[tall torrent]

mk2 tac axe is harder to roll than rashad fyi

[late hatch]

The mk2 and 4 have slightly diff patterns and push. I have one with the stamina depletion for power blessing and you can just spam push attacks and it goes hard

[tall torrent]

and does a worse job at it

[late hatch]

the rashad is much slower speed though

[tall torrent]

Mk2 needs heavy/PA

which ends up being not that much faster

with much worse single target dmg than rashad

and heavy/PA have steeper atk angle than rashad

[late hatch]

I find it does fine for horde slaying and the faster hits mean i get poked less

[tall torrent]

yea it's a bit safer since PA comes out pretty fast

[somber axle]

I die forever thank you

Crafting rework pls

Hadron and Brunt casino games are such a chore

[last parcel]

see you 2077

[frank ether]

On vet onslaught is an option but in practice its really underwhelming compared to fury zealot non stop crit chaining while also downgrading armor.

I think what I genuinely want is for parry to not be a gimmick to make claws stand out but to have it be an extension of block where if you time it really well your block morphs into a parry. I'm not saying all swords should have huge finesse parry ofc that would be kind of nuts but it could even be something as simple as a stun on your target and when its fitting it could be a finesse attack or allow for a morph into a more powerful move.

I think main benefit from this would be to make block, a largely ignored mechanic, suddenly more relevant. As an extension of it block cost perk on melee would also gain some relevance aswell and d.claw could be buffed in some other ways on top of retaining the crazy finesse on the parry. The second benefit in my opinion is that it makes parry more of a risk&reward thing that it currently is, as it is on d.claw anything below a crusher parry timing is a non-issue.

[tall torrent]

there're 2 kinds of DC sword enthusiasts

mk7 is so much more complex than mk4 in moveset lol

[frank ether]

I like them both, prefer 7. Though they both share the same general weakness with flak&carapace damage being really weak

[potent iris]

honestly I wish timed blocks were just a baked in mechanic for the game generally, would be a great way to enhance skill expression and give combat a little more to it than just...spam the same set of inputs over and over

I was stuck using the mk1 for a good while because it was the only one hadron wouldn't brick

[white minnow]

make blocking great

(and nerf dodging)

[frank ether]

I don't know if its too late for darktide in its lifespan to have these kind of overhauls to it tho I think its the direction this franchise should go towards.

[timid otter]

The only person who is getting a dc is me after failing to kill a bruiser in 8 hits 😦

[junior needle]

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves

Blocks should get an improvement though

[tall torrent]

I gave up on DC after understanding how shit the cleave dmg distrubution they have vs flak

[junior needle]

Wishing for things from fatshark is a monkey paw

You'll get gutted dodging and slightly improved blocks if you put in a lot more effort

[frank ether]

See I thought on this a lot and just couldn't answer why I would ever want to block over just dodging or even bashing, parry potential was the only reason for me to ever consider building a weapon around it, I mean I build stamina on d.claws for that reason but I don't really build for block cost on power sword 6 even though it can block pretty ok. It just... feels like a waste of time over dodging and keep chaining attacks that can also stunlock enemies because psword is balanced like that

[quick burrow]

frig on my psyker thanks melkor

[white minnow]

we are in an era where they're too afraid to make strong nerfs so i wouldn't be that pessimistic

there'd be no particular incentive to block unless dodging gets curbed in some way

[frank ether]

we haven't had a real balance pass in ages so I don't know what makes you say that

[white minnow]

unless they give really good incentives for it

[junior needle]

They did just reduce the effectiveness of survivalist to like 10% of previous value in hitsg

[frank ether]

if anything most of the vocal tide community kinda just agrees with some stuff getting nerfed

[white minnow]

we've had a few nerfs but the majority of them have left the thing in question still very strong

as a psyker main, the ones i remember are voidstrike and assail

[junior needle]

Recons

[frank ether]

psyker's entire design is problematic

[white minnow]

yeah that's one

[junior needle]

Autopistol

[white minnow]

mhm

but the majority of weapons in this game are very good

i didn't say all of them were, mind you

[junior needle]

columnus brauto, although it was never strong to begin with

[white minnow]

but our power level is omega busted relative to the top difficulty

the columnus brauto isn't that far behind

[junior needle]

It has the worst dps and ammo efficiency by a good margin

[frank ether]

the problem with brautos lies with the lack of control given to the player

zealot remedies it with %75 recoil reduction

veteran can do it with exe stance if you really wanted to relive P12 veteran

[mortal horizon]

did they nerf plasmas wall-penetration ability at some point?

[junior needle]

Recon mk2 is the lowest dps gun in the game

[mortal horizon]

feels less reliable than it did months ago but could just be me

[frank ether]

but there is no possible skill expression on a weapon where your bullets go over a massive cone and all you can do is reduce that cone and hope for the best

[junior needle]

Let's see, they nerfed the agri revolver on release didn't they?

It's kinda uh

Not very good

[frank ether]

Hear my controversial take

If they gave up on the boss nuke memes on the agri revolver

[junior needle]

What else is considered a trash weapon on other classes

I haven't played psyker in a long time

The obscurus force sword

[frank ether]

so nerfed unyielding, but buffed its ammo, it would have a place as a spam gun

[tall torrent]

power maul has worse cleave dmg distribution than mk6 knife
let that sink in

[junior needle]

The issue with the agri is you can't aim it and the braced accuracy blows

Oh YEAH

The paul

dogshit weapon

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/let-that-sink-in-gif-11785532389901559578

[junior needle]

Like it's "ok" out to 15ish then drops off a cliff

[frank ether]

I notice its got some heavy bullet magnetism

[junior needle]

That's a revolver thing

[radiant chasm]

paul is dogshit and should've gotten a buff when crusher got it's buff/rework

[frank ether]

I think this is the wrong way to go about precision weapons

what we need is a fix to hitreg and maybe a balance pass to braced weapons as a whole, not bullet magnetism

[radiant chasm]

so they aren't meme weapons that take 2 empowered swings for a single poxwalker or a dozen swings for a trapper

[junior needle]

Fatshork apparently doesn't want to client side hitreg

In a pve game

[frank ether]

it hurts the game a lot

hitreg is atrocious

[junior needle]

Agree

[frank ether]

grabbed V7, the gun you guys love to hype

no penetration whatsoever which is fine I can be patient

[junior needle]

Especially since it gets worse the longer patches go on because they don't give their server hamsters a break

[frank ether]

shot a trapper exactly 5 times in the head

all shots made hit sound

none did damage

smh

[frank ether]

See knowing this makes their decision all the more baffling

[junior needle]

My biggest concern with fatshark is not so much that they'll make mistakes

But that they will take FOREVER to rectify them

[frank ether]

they're slow in general but I agree this is whats killing them

[potent iris]

(or they just won't fix it because they don't believe it to be a mistake)

[junior needle]

That's also bad

And seemingly common

[radiant chasm]

i actually got a bit of info from asking a cm about this

[potent iris]

yeah...it's a thing

[frank ether]

thats even worse but someone in there must disagree since they finally agreed to do something, anything, about crafting.

[radiant chasm]

basically, the issue is core and baked into the engine/server communication code

and to fix it in any meaningful way would basically need to start from scratch

[radiant chasm]

mostly just time and priorities, they did announce they were changing their entire path for the game to focus on systems first

[junior needle]

I assume the only reason anything was done was because the game could've blown up like helldivers 2 and is now barely getting more players than VT2

[frank ether]

crafting is something thats more immediately apparent for the new players, probably should have been done before the console release imo.

[radiant chasm]

it doesn't matter what is more immediate, it matters what is finished first

[junior needle]

And as someone who wants money, it must not be satisfying to see your cosmetic whale milker have only 4000 players

[junior needle]

They released a broken unfinished mess and would've left it like that if it wasn't for the immense backlash and the game being on life support

They were clearly still working on the console port the whole time too

[radiant chasm]

first, fatshark didn't make the cash shop, level infinite did, I'm fairly safe to say they wanted a catalogue ala vt2 but were assigned to do the current system, which sucks, but it's not something they can fix. 2ndly the game made more money in a year than vt2s lifetime cosmetic purchases

[somber axle]

Didn't it have a surprisingly good player turnout in the hundreds of thousands on beta/launch that fell off hard-core?

Idk what the player count is anymore though

[frank ether]

like how they're probably working on the next big thing rn? At least I imagine a lot of the original dev team are.

[radiant chasm]

no, they would have focused on "content" at the same slow pace, but that would be overall worse (in my opinion) i'd rather have brunts and talent trees over a few new maps and marks

[potent iris]

the game should've popped off a lot harder than it did, it never would've reached HD2 levels but it should've easily maintained 20k+ players

but yeah crafting and other issues just utterly ruined it

[frank ether]

And it would have easily if it didn't rub people off the wrong way

you know this penance system would take a lot of pressure off if it were there when they released the cash shop

[radiant chasm]

the next tide game is still way early in development considering they haven't released even a scrap of news, even DT had some info years before launch

[somber axle]

Oh nevermind I checked and all time peak for Darktide is 107k

[junior needle]

first, fatshark didn't make the cash shop, level infinite did
So they outsourced it.
I'm fairly safe to say they wanted a catalogue ala vt2 but were assigned to do the current system
There's no reason to believe that an outsourced project would just go and do its own thing independent of the devs wishes, or that they'd just shrug and go "oh well that's unfortunate" if they did.
2ndly the game made more money in a year than vt2s lifetime cosmetic purchases
That would be because of the initial purchase price and how many people bought it

[radiant chasm]

YES we know how bad the launch is lol

[somber axle]

I thought there were way more people

Though tbh Fatshark would probably kill to get even half that number back

[radiant chasm]

it wasn't an outsource, it's an assignment, level infinite is thrown around by tencent to help monetize their games

but the penance system wasn't done

the game wasn't done

they delayed the game thrice, couldn't get further delays

[junior needle]

So what you're telling me is that tencent is squarely to blame for all the woes of the obesefish, according to obesefish

[radiant chasm]

i find little point in saying "well if only the talent trees and crafting and penances were at launch" LIKE damn i think even fatshark agrees with that

[radiant chasm]

no

there is multiple issues with DT, fatshark is to blame for some of them

[radiant chasm]

no, the aquila shop, made more money in a year, than vt2s lifetime cosmetic packs

while i think the aquila shop is fucking stupid, it didn't fail in the slightest

[frank ether]

yes its called something something short term gains in corporate leech speech

[junior needle]

108k about

https://steamdb.info/app/1361210/charts/#max

[radiant chasm]

the fact is having 40k in a title is going to get money from nerds with burning holes for wallets

just see how many people beg for slop if it's not released right away every other thursday

[junior needle]

Not surprised. Even if everything were totally even, darktide is made with a much more popular IP

[radiant chasm]

i think context of failure and what can/should be done now and in the future is more important

[junior needle]

And 40k players are notorious for eating up essentially any slop that gets on their plate

Some even eating up obvious retcons and gaslighting from the company, with a famous recent example

[frank ether]

is this about the fem astartes thing or whatever it was

[radiant chasm]

oh dear god please

that makes so much sense if you are anti femstodes

like it tracks

[junior needle]

It was custodes

[frank ether]

oh right

[radiant chasm]

just like how necrons were never super lame or how squats were always league of votann

[junior needle]

I'm not entirely sure where you're getting these from

Or what you're talking aboot

[radiant chasm]

i'm pointing out the hypocrisy of calling femstodes gaslighting

[frank ether]

space moron fans always had big incel energy to be honest

[radiant chasm]

when GW has changed the lore (much more dramatically) in the past

[junior needle]

Sometimes for the worse

I'm calling it a retcon because it is, but the official warhammer account did come across like it was saying it wasn't

[radiant chasm]

"it did come across like it was saying it wasn't" so what was said

[junior needle]

Let me find the tweet for you

It said "Since the first of the ten thousand, there have always been female custodes."

Meanwhile

Oh wait, found it

[radiant chasm]

yes lol

how do you think they completely changed necrons

or completely changed squats

[junior needle]

Retcon, I didn't like the necron change either

[radiant chasm]

oh dear god they are following through with their retcon

how dare they

also, one of those paragraphs, is literally from terran nobles

[junior needle]

It came across more like "yeah we're retconning the necrons and the squats" and there wasn't any perceived dishonesty about it

[radiant chasm]

who admit they don't know the exact process

PERCEIVED DISHONESTY

lol

[junior needle]

Now that's uncalled for

I'm willing to cut them some slack by calling it perceived

As I don't know their motivations for certain, although I can certainly guess

Necrons were considered an iffy change by many people and turning the squats from uh, well whatever they were before into the leagues was a step up even if their visuals are very meh

[junior needle]

A lot of narrative lore is phrased like that even if it's meant to be viewed as objective information. It's to add a sense of mystery. But you'd think the terran nobles would know very well if their daughters were being poached (or just willingly given) for custodes duty. There's no reason only the sons would be mentioned if it's such a big deal.

However there are other sources not from terran nobles, as you can see.

There's also the Emperors motivation in not making female space marines despite them all supposedly being sterile anyway, which is to not create a class of superhumans which could feasibly replace baseline humanity.

They actually could've just explained it as a "Custodes are now out in the galaxy dying in far greater numbers and they decided to go against the Emperors philosophy for more recruitment"

[somber axle]

I am very guilty of this. I like the 40k universe but have no interest in any other 40k game including tabletop. I don't know the lore beyond some fun tidbits I have learned from friends who are way more into than me but I like Darktide because fun gameplay loop so I splurge on cosmetics hoping the money shows Fatshark the game has a small player base that still likes the game enough to support it amongst what remains of the player pop

[tall torrent]

Am almost done with melee weapon pages

[radiant chasm]

maybe now my templar teammates will not crumple if left in melee for 5 seconds

like a ranged totalwarhammer unit

[last parcel]

what is this

melee

[somber axle]

Money makes the world turn whether people like that fact or not and if they see value (money) then they'll work more for that value otherwise they'll be busy on other things (VT2)

[somber axle]

YESSSSSSS

[junior needle]

I splurge on cosmetics hoping the money shows Fatshark
All it's showing fatshark is they can get away with anything and people will still eat it up

[somber axle]

can't wait to see the updated guide

[tall torrent]

yea no that's gonna take a while still

ranged weapons after melee

[somber axle]

Very cynical take but probably not entirely wrong. But would you rather the game drop to 500 players and go the way of City of Heroes?

Money makes the gears turn

[somber axle]

You grease the wheels or the wheels stop turning

[tall torrent]

melee weapon page sneak peek

[radiant chasm]

has the game hit 500 yet?

i figured it might with this shader bug

[junior needle]

I'd rather fatshark learn an important lesson once and for all, someone made a very interesting reddit comment about the fatshark cycle. I can send it to you if you want.

[radiant chasm]

would scare every casual and person who isn't full of time to go play something else

plebbit

plebbit cycle, screenshot something, remove all context, post it, infer a completely different statement. Farm that sweet outrage updoots

now where are my flash missions and monthly classes fartshart!

[somber axle]

Tbh they don't seem like a developer who is reaching for the level of player numbers that HD2 or other big name titles have. 10k-20k players is something a lot of smaller developers dream of. HD1 had like less than 10k concurrent players afaik and now they're struggling with 500k LOL

But also yeah hit me

I am on lunch break so I am down for a good read

[somber axle]

Nah I think we're still around 10k

[junior needle]

You'd have to apply it in a way that motivates them properly. If you give rewards to an animal after it misbehaves, it will undermine any attempt to get it into behaving better.

[somber axle]

Maybe a bit under

Or a bit over

[radiant chasm]

no way darktide is 10k

[somber axle]

But I haven't checked steam charts recently

[radiant chasm]

what the fuck

yea since teh hotfix fucked up shader caching

so you get frame hitches until you play a game or two

[somber axle]

Oh the screenshot I found from Google is from a much older date LOL

[junior needle]

Went from 4k to 9k peak with the penance patch

[somber axle]

This is not current

[junior needle]

Now about 7k

[somber axle]

Yeah that sounds about right

[junior needle]

9.4k excuse me

https://steamdb.info/app/1361210/charts/#max

[somber axle]

Watch us rebound to more players after some angry Helldivers 2 players come here

[radiant chasm]

6,783
24-hour peak

no fucking way

i honestly expected 2k

[somber axle]

Yeah we're more than you think but less than you'd hope

[radiant chasm]

idk how people can stand playing if they have to do a sedition match at the start of every game session

nah, this hotfix pushed my buttons

no reason they didn't roll out a single issue hotfix on friday AT the latest

[somber axle]

Idk puzzles, new map modifiers, new enemy type, new cosmetics, new penance system, cover art cosmetics at last and a battle pass to work on is a lot of nice stuff to bring people back and keep them busy at least in the short term

No new weapons or maps but they reworked Hab Dreyko ending

[radiant chasm]

yea, but that was before the hotfix

i saw the 9k rise on the penance patch

[somber axle]

New flesh tree is stinky, loud and gross

I love it

[radiant chasm]

i'm just shocked so many stuck through the hotfix

[frank ether]

the penance system is fantastic

[somber axle]

Yeah despite the games numerous hiccups there's a small but "loyal" playerbase that sticks around. And some who check back in for major updates

[frank ether]

I just hope they don't leave it to die after building the foundations

[somber axle]

Loyal in quotes because LMFAO not loyal as the literal definition

[pseudo fiber]

I don't get this I had this issue when the hotfix released then never again

[somber axle]

Loyal as in we're collectively insane because we have fun and still play despite the flaws

[last parcel]

loyalist forces 🙏

[frank ether]

loyalist soighted

[last parcel]

kid named omicron mortis intercession

[pseudo fiber]

I have an inkling on what they might do with penances next and I'd guess they're gonna wait until the crafting/itemisation rework first

[somber axle]

You're correct but starving an animal to death isn't the answer either

[austere mica]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cowboy-screaming-big-enough-gif-11112189

[frank ether]

very nice

exquisite

[wicked niche]

Is there a move for the standard shovel that's good at dealing with heavy armor?

[frank ether]

yes

push attack

[pseudo fiber]

Imma be fr on this whole cash shop thing.

I got this many hours for £35

I'll buy a vostroyan firstborn outfit if they release it

[somber axle]

LMFAO good luck

[junior needle]

Corporations aren't living entities and there's no moral victory to be gained by floating their poor decisions

[somber axle]

I'm at a little over 800 hours and afraid to know how much I have spent on this game tbh

[frank ether]

I recently got the pearl clutcher edition since it was on sale for 7 bucks

[junior needle]

In fact, given the obesefish needs to lose a couple pounds

[frank ether]

problem is I do not like anything in the cash shop

[junior needle]

It's for its own good

[frank ether]

I look at the shop and then decide that I want nothing

[somber axle]

The victory is in continuing a game I like to play and ensuring it doesn't go the way of City of Heroes tbh. Games die when the money is dry. Companies chase their bottom line and that bottom line is being able to support themselves. If 100 people choose not to spend but 1 person does, you can bet they know how many and who is spending money vs who isn't

They are 100% tracking profits and tracking every metric in the book related to it for reports

They know you are sticking your nose up in the air at their cosmetics

And they know you are not alone

[junior needle]

That kind of mentally is unfortunately leveraged into pity parties for developers who make objectively bad decisions and then chronically avoid having to face the consequences

[somber axle]

There are many like you

[somber axle]

Not wrong but I would rather them be slow and stupid than die out and leave me without a fun game to play

[pseudo fiber]

I relate to this. Like "I would buy stuff if you put stuff that appeals to me in. I'm not above it"

[somber axle]

Something has to keep the lights on and the servers running poorly

[somber axle]

I only buy things I like tbh

I skip cosmetics I will not use

[frank ether]

hey at least the penance stuff is pretty okay

[pseudo fiber]

indeed

[somber axle]

Elysian cosmetics were some of my favs so I had to buy them out LOL

[junior needle]

They're not going to "die" because you didn't splurge on (largely) poorly made cosmetics

[somber axle]

But most times I skip cosmetic pages and spend very little

[lilac eagle]

Late reply but wtf were the Sister of Silence meant to be if not female Custodes?

Like I thought that was their entire purpose, be the second half of the Big E defense squad

[frank ether]

I would buy the rest of the scion set or the steel legion jacket if they returned that ever

see this is the other issue

different people have different taste

[somber axle]

Probably not but they're also not going to be bankrolled entirely by me spending on some cosmetics either. What I spend doesn't cover even one dev salary LOL

And I like looking pretty

So I splurge

[frank ether]

I understand why fomo shop is there but smart devs will cash in on the patient customers by occasionally putting old stuff back on a large catalogue

[pseudo fiber]

aren't they blanks though? which custodes aren't

[somber axle]

And know the little bit of money is something they can point at in reports as "there's still gold in the hills, don't give up yet"

[radiant chasm]

i bought a few things with my imperial edition money i got on sale

[lilac eagle]

I've never heard of Custodes having to be pyskers

Thats Grey Knights

[radiant chasm]

sisters of silence need more, i think everyone agrees on that

[junior needle]

They're not superhumans (iirc, just blanks) but yes, they're like the all female equivalent of of custodes similarly to sororitas and space marines

[radiant chasm]

but femstodes doesn't detract from sisters

[radiant chasm]

no, but they aren't blanks

[frank ether]

Its still sitting there for me, not even enough to buy one ''premium'' set but it was for 7 bucks so I can't complain as hard as some of the others lol

[radiant chasm]

they are vulnerable to heavy duty warp shit

[lilac eagle]

I don't see how a blank Custodes would be any less effective

[radiant chasm]

i got the thick platemail chest for zealot and a good pair of pants

still no good helmet as shown up in rotation

[crude fiber]

Working on buying every cosmetic in the credit shop. 2 ogryn armors and I'll have everything

[radiant chasm]

uhh something they are made with big E juice and big e is a psyker

[junior needle]

Now I'm eagerly awaiting the misters of battle and misters of silence

[frank ether]

I was actually rather excited for scion armor on vet, kinda want some proper plate looking thing

besides VoC build pretty much feels like you're in carapace anyway

[junior needle]

Lore be damned, the chainkini banana hammock on my misters of silence repentia will be ballin

[somber axle]

Misters of Battle revealed to have always existed but they're femboys so no one noticed

[radiant chasm]

they aren't psykers, but they can't really be blanks either

[pseudo fiber]

same please be blue

[radiant chasm]

they are connected to the emperor via warp nonsesne, at least a little bit

[lilac eagle]

And...? Gene seed doesn't turn you into a carbon copy of the guy it came from.

Nor does it just give you pysker powers

[frank ether]

they had that chance when they released the overpriced helmet, they could make it a bundle of one green one blue but they chose green only. I think the armor will also have to be green only now. Unless they throw in extra stuff in that armor bundle to compensate which I doubt.

[radiant chasm]

yea misters of battle always existed, they have enough male auxiliaries to field a whole army without a single sister

[radiant chasm]

that's not what i said

they aren't psykers, but they can't be blanks either

you kinda need the base human level connection to the warp as most living things do, to do stuff like recieve dream prophecies from big E

[lilac eagle]

I really don't think thats accurate lmao

[pseudo fiber]

I mean if it's a full new set then maybe

[junior needle]

Oh and they all have bob cuts

[lilac eagle]

The Everseer assassins literally prefer blanks because they aren't effected by warp shit

[junior needle]

wrong assassin type

Eversors are drugged up bombs

[frank ether]

So the issue is if they released a blue scion set they'd be really pissing off the people who bought the green helmet, though funnily enough not even managing to keep your whales happy does exactly sound like something fatshark would pull off.

[lilac eagle]

That whole section of the Imperium kinda melts into 1 entity for me lmao

[junior needle]

You're thinking of culexus

[lilac eagle]

Yeh sure lol, I really don't know the names. But thats the point tho

Blanks are just more effective against Pyskers

[radiant chasm]

the assassins want blanks cause it makes them nigh undetectable with any warp detection, and they also fuck with psykers if they are close, tho most blanks go to culexus temple

[lilac eagle]

And last I checked most people who want to fuck with Big E are pyskers of some level

[frank ether]

Also loose cannon veteran has some lines about wanting some scion armor for herself, would be funny to hear that line with the scion mask on

[junior needle]

No no, they're not just auxiliaries. They are the sisters (misters)

They have their own ordos of misters of battle

[radiant chasm]

custodes, like most humans, aren't blanks or psykers

[frank ether]

there are some redundant lines like that though I suppose, like in one mission how we are told the good ammo is reserved for auric operatives, even though we are the auric operatives now

[radiant chasm]

tbf they cut the lines out for that

[junior needle]

There's never been any lore stating the ecclesiarchy couldn't have men at arms to hamstring the existence of these misters

[frank ether]

Did they? I heard it just yesterday

oh wait

no nvm

[tall torrent]

Moebian 6th armor for veteran is basically “blue scion set” at home

[frank ether]

I thought you were talking about the scion line, mb

[somber axle]

As one of the whales I would be upset but then eagerly wait for a matching helmet LMFAO

I am stupid I know

[frank ether]

yea, though I like it honestly.

[somber axle]

That is why I am a self professed clown

I know my silliness

[frank ether]

I think its pretty cool

[tall torrent]

Yea that’s my fav armor in this game

[frank ether]

Still its not gonna make them much money from me because the stuff I'd like to buy are out of rotation or not out yet

even when I want to feed the fat fish I can't lmao

[somber axle]

I just want the Vox backpack at this point

[frank ether]

I got the rusty one

it doesn't match with anything

[somber axle]

I might buy Krieg but idk since I don't think I'd use it over Elysian or Catachan or cover art or teaser trailer looks

[frank ether]

not even the set it came with

It came with that psyker leather jacket set

[radiant chasm]

that's how i feel with the twitch watch along camos

literally winterhome camo doesn't match with anything

it's soft powder pink

[somber axle]

And I tend to weigh cosmetics on whether or not to buy on whether or not I'll use them, not just if I like how they look

[radiant chasm]

fatshark is dumb asf for not releasing a camo/dye system yet, not even full on free reign coloring (players would ruin that real quick) but just let us use existing camo patterns

[frank ether]

I think this is the biggest reason I don't buy a lot of stuff, lack of colour matching and also the fact that pricing is hostile to buying single pieces

[frank ether]

%100 they sleep on so much money over thinking they are smart selling recolours

[pseudo fiber]

I think we gotta start smaller

Can we get weekly rotations instead of biweekly?

[radiant chasm]

i think part of the issue is that fatshark has to be contractually obliged to keep the cash shop mostly as is because they didn't technically make it

tencent and/or GW wanted level infinite to make it, and typically contractor work is protected work

i just hope the contract has an end date

[frank ether]

if its as you said making that a timeless contract sounds like a suicide agreement lol

[radiant chasm]

god the cash shop is so stupid because they could be making more money but they wanna tap into fomo

[frank ether]

still they knew what they were signing up for

like I'm not gonna buy slop I don't like because I feel bad for fatshark

[radiant chasm]

now the emperor don't call me cause i can't go, i sold my soul to the company store

[frank ether]

It reminds me of that destiny 2 controversy

where they had a bundle specifically made to trick new players

[pseudo fiber]

THE NEW PLAYER BUNDLE

[radiant chasm]

you pay 16 bucks and what do you get, another day older and deeper in slop

[frank ether]

the kinds of people who design these cash shop elements genuinely worry about how to scam their own customers

[junior needle]

Then they can't sell you overpriced recolors made with no effort using it

[pseudo fiber]

Staticians gotta make money somehow

[frank ether]

tbh to a degree

its players fault

for keeping buying the recolours

every two weeks someone makes driptide post with latest recolour slop

my favourite r/darktide moment was when someone made an actually cool drip using mods

and some dumb ass whale called them out for using mods because ''thats not fair'' or some shit Idk

[pseudo fiber]

reddit is dumb best to ignore

[radiant chasm]

then they should release the fucking recolors so people could buy them

reddit is a dark place

basically only better than the steam forums

[last parcel]

but where else can i get my dragonsfuckingcars material

[frank ether]

the what

[radiant chasm]

"i can carry without killing or dealing damage, just skill"
"I can't believe shield is so bad, I'm using it like i should by blocking and planting in front of my team"

steam forums greatest hits

[radiant chasm]

it's a continuous/ongoing pron meme

basically, exactly what is said

the internet is a dark place

[junior needle]

Custodes have always been dragonsfuckingcars

[frank ether]

I have enough furry friends ^^ but I'm too scared to look that up lmao

[junior needle]

Everything is canon

[frank ether]

damn GW they ruined my rod to rod custodes action 😔

[radiant chasm]

i think the rumor going is some person with a lot of money commisioned a lot of artists for their, very niche taste

[last parcel]

custodes docking time

[radiant chasm]

and it became a running gag

[junior needle]

Remember what they took from you

[pseudo fiber]

that's big falco

[frank ether]

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/gachi-gachi-muchi-gym-gif-26208724

[somber axle]

Tbh the mods are REALLY COOL and some of the modders designing outfits could make the outfits look so much better for the shop rotation. Like that guy who posted his Tanith First and Only look. It looked fantastic but it's client side only so it's sad that it's exclusively visible to him and whoever saw his screenshots here over discord. That level of quality should be what we have in the game too

Imagine if those people were part of the Fatshark cosmetic team

We'd have much better things than recolours

[junior needle]

Never going to happen because anything made by outsourced cosmetic crafters would be outdone by community content

Who make it for free

[somber axle]

That's sorta the rule with community content anyway. Someone with passion and infinite time doing something because they love it and want to make it perfect will always outdo someone on a deadline with a suit over their shoulder sneering

Just look at Fallout 4

LMFAO

[junior needle]

Bethesda undoubtedly has the "mods will fix it" mentality with their games

[somber axle]

Now they have the "Microsoft holds Todd Howard's leash" mentality with their company

[radiant chasm]

they'd still be slow asf cause modding and doing actual rollouts are pretty different

also they'd be on the swedish work schedule and culture

[somber axle]

I wouldn't mind the wait because the quality would be worth it imo

[frank ether]

Some of the BEST drip I've seen was made with mods, its indeed sad its all clientside, but maybe one day we will have nice things when this game dies down enough to not be worth having a rotating slop shop

[radiant chasm]

i think they new stuff they've added are pretty good besides the clipping issues and them ruining my psykers favorite helmet

[junior needle]

They could just make it better with a higher commitment to quality

That was supposedly the reason for price bumps of some cosmetics

"We took extra care for this one" meanwhile krieg outfits

[frank ether]

was just an excuse for charging more really

[junior needle]

Oh yeah

For sure

[frank ether]

the krieg set to this day

[pseudo fiber]

lmao everyone wore a krieg outfit at release

everyone.

[frank ether]

still upsets even people who like krieg

[somber axle]

I think their constant new outfit every two weeks is what makes them drop slop. If they dropped new outfits on a less fixed schedule then they'd probably make better quality but this way probably makes way more money so they chase the $$$ forever

[pseudo fiber]

I would put the damn price up.

[radiant chasm]

krieg sets sucked but i still see them to this day

people cannot stand for anything ong

[frank ether]

they didnt just put the krieg set for high up, they made that the new price

anything new now priced at 2900

and no side stuff like weapons etc either

[pseudo fiber]

nope

[somber axle]

To be fair anyone and everyone just wants to look like their fav regiment and Krieg is THE most popular regiment. Just look at the funny poll they did in this discord server LOL

[junior needle]

Even absolute garbo

[radiant chasm]

thought that was only the regiment sets

chemdogs etc etc.

[frank ether]

what else do we get besides that nowadays

[pseudo fiber]

yeah regiment sets are 2900

custom shit all teh time?

[radiant chasm]

the generic ones are still the same price

[frank ether]

regiment sets and rehashed recoloured assets

[radiant chasm]

can't wait to see what the fuck winterhome regiment looks like cause they barely exist in lore xd

powderpink winter soldiers

[pseudo fiber]

we got krieg, elysian, rogue trader, salvar chem dogs and another one I think they were the only 2900 ones

[frank ether]

how many times have they sold that pyjama looking half chainmail legging?

under different sets

and skull helmets for zealot/psyker

also hang on

if regiment sets are 2900

and they already sold the scion helmet for like 1600 something

what helmet will that set come out with then

[pseudo fiber]

idk

[somber axle]

Pink is one of my fav colours so I look forward to it tbh

[frank ether]

will they just slap some random ass helmet and charge 2900 for the rest of it

that sounds so scummy lmao but exactly what they did for krieg

[pseudo fiber]

depends on the colour of the armour I suppose

[frank ether]

the good helmet was sold separately in krieg case

and you got the sockpuppet helmet for that 2900 bundle

[pseudo fiber]

also since you asked

they still do lower priced stuff

regiments are 2900 that's about it

[frank ether]

''lower priced''

those are recolours

its sold for the standard price

sets for that price used to include shit like backpacks, weapons etc

Cool zealot pants though

[pseudo fiber]

Is this one a recolour I don't remember I think this is original

[frank ether]

there are some new pieces here and there sure but nothing impressive when so much of this stuff is reused assets

[radiant chasm]

Yea you search winterhome 40k on google you get one short wiki post and then just darktide unrelated stuff (and a lot of frost punk)

[pseudo fiber]

we're the

what's it called

valhallan guard 2400 too

[radiant chasm]

Cmon gw

Premiere the winterhome regiment

[pseudo fiber]

I guess they were more "snow skins"

[swift bear]

Is supercharge IV super rare? lol

[junior needle]

The rending blessing for pswords?

You'd never want to take it currently

[swift bear]

nah the charged hits thing

[junior needle]

sunder?

power cycler?

They are both very rare

[swift bear]

sorry yes

[radiant chasm]

No rarer than the other t4s but no easier to find either

[white minnow]

i had to go away for a moment
but here's why I think the terrible-ness of the columnus is overstated

it really doesn't fall that far behind

in fact, the terrible-ness of a lot of stuff is just overstated

[junior needle]

I mean, it does

[white minnow]

the obscurus is fine but just absolutely overshadowed

it still has force sword stats

and in a world where people still light spam the illisi, it is hard to say that it is trash

[junior needle]

It has objectively the worst ammo economy and nearly the lowest dps on everything but infested and unarmored

[white minnow]

these are margins on the scale of 10%

i'm not arguing the fact that it is not the worse

I am arguing that the scale and words used to describe how far behind it falls behind the other two is not that big

it is too hyperbolic for what the differences actually are

[radiant chasm]

Yea it isn’t paul level bad

[junior needle]

I see what you're saying. But it's still the worst choice of the bunch by objective measures. Also where is this chart from

[white minnow]

me

[radiant chasm]

There is a difference from being the worst option but still viable to needing a dozen swings to kill a trapper

[somber axle]

Oh ok that puts things into perspective. Columnus Brauto is just weaker on Flak/Maniac/Unyielding for total damage per pool with comparative damage per mag and DPS

[junior needle]

If you have that for more weapons put them up somewhere, it's useful information

[white minnow]

i just calculated it for this argument

[junior needle]

I respect the effort

[white minnow]

it's numbers that don't actually matter since you can be like "use agri/graia; columnus is a bit worse blah blah"

[junior needle]

It's still the worst variant

yeah

[frank ether]

I dont think dps charts put into perspective how terrible it feels to use the thing as a veteran

[somber axle]

Gun is fine just not doing anything special compared to the other two

[junior needle]

Not so much that it doesn't do anything special

[frank ether]

columnus brr may have passable dps on paper, it kinda doesn't in practice as a veteran unless you shove that barrel into something's mouth

[junior needle]

But that the numbers are just worse

[frank ether]

So at that point, what is the point of that dps chart?

[junior needle]

It can have better numbers but no gimmicks

[white minnow]

as a simple numerical comparison that it is not that far behind the other two brautos

[last parcel]

my super power is being worse

[frank ether]

and you might go about ''but but but it tightens after shooting a while'' yet I don't think the charts reflect the time it takes for that

[white minnow]

because I am using the total damage per ammo pool and DPS as metrics

but it doesn't tighten, does it?

that's the graia isn't it

[junior needle]

The graia tightens

The columnus brauto doesn't get dick

[white minnow]

i'm not here to argue that the columnus is better than the other two

[frank ether]

oh right, thats graia

columnus was the middle variant was it

[white minnow]

i am only arguing that the differences between it and the other two are not that big

[junior needle]

I did the numbers for the brautos on flak some time ago

[frank ether]

I mean graia isn't amazing by any stretch of the imagination either

[white minnow]

and getting up close is just brautos in general

[junior needle]

And was very surprised that it was just worse

No redeeming quality

[frank ether]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is these weapons don't have ''dps bad'' problems

they have ''braced weapon bad'' problems

because braced weapons genuinely are bad to use if you have any ability at all to aim you'd be wasting your potential

[white minnow]

that's fine though since a lot of engagements happen up close or can be forced to happen up close

or if you use exe's stance, but there's exe's stance problem to contend with of course

but it's not hard to find engagements that happen up close

[frank ether]

if it happens up close I can use my melee, simple as

[white minnow]

sure it's an alternative way to play

i'm not here to argue what is better

[frank ether]

people be optimizing over engagements that are one dodge slide away from melee range

[white minnow]

i'm here to argue that it's not that worse

yes yes I am a melee fan as well

i don't need to be told this

i run weapon spec builds primarily

[frank ether]

I'm not a ''melee fan''

I like ranged gameplay

[white minnow]

and I didn't say you were

[frank ether]

I'm just explaining to you how pointless it is to shoot at something 7 meters away from you

[white minnow]

I am just asserting that I understand how good melee is

it's not strictly pointless because you can rack up deathspitter/fire frenzy for a nontrivial damage buff

[frank ether]

this is not a ''melee makes gun pointless'' argument, its ''gun pointless at this range'' argument

[white minnow]

once again, I'm not here to argue about what is better (i.e. optimality)

and it's not strictly pointless

[frank ether]

there are many sections in game where having a gun that can shoot down distant things is very valueable