veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

12% isnt much

but

for stealth, its at least 7 seconds off

[woven vigil]

I did the first part, it was the "run back to team" part where I then got my shit rocked haha

[bitter turtle]

you also don't run the risk of "wasting" cdr from your skill because you have 2 charges

[woven vigil]

So i guess it makes sense

[bitter turtle]

its not so cut and dry either

sometimes you can just stay out for an entire engagement

you're not supposed to go in, do 10 seconds of work and then run away

its just a backup plan the moment you feel like the situation is slipping out of control

[woven vigil]

I see i see

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/d50701b651f829291e7f1e716fbd9ca9.png

this is the tree i run

laspistol + knife

you can move deadshot into shocktrooper

or demo team into shocktrooper

if you feel like you're gonna need more ammo

maybe its better to do that to be safe, but you can always adjust based on your team if you dont join mid match

but this is specifically laspis/knife

if you really want to get better at it

improve your skills at surviving when you're clutching solo

maybe try it in a few solo games or something idk

its the same skillset

[wise fossil]

Agri shotty is so good on vet jeeze

[bitter turtle]

to 1. not get dogged or trapped by a random one showing up because nobody will bail you out

[woven vigil]

[bitter turtle]

and 2. have an intuitive sense for when things are going south and you need to bail instead of continuing to fight

also underhand throw doesnt break stealth

so if you want

you can underhand a smoke before you break stealth to start attacking

[woven vigil]

Aye, I am coming straight from a VoC vet who just kinda tanks everything up front so I need to change that mindset a little, I guess

[bitter turtle]

i dont really do that personally though

i can see it being helpful in a room with really spread out shooters though

its a shame frag is so hard to take because underhand frag while stealth is insanely strong

since you can basically waltz up to their backline, drop 2 frags and instantly nullify like 90% of threats

some guns might allow you to do it though

since they're less point heavy

https://i.gyazo.com/b97430fd96310dc68f33d51d60b78ba3.png

i run v3 and rashad like this

since rashad/v3 are fine not taking any of the subnodes under weapon specialist, they only want the base effect

meanwhile push attack spamming with knife, i've found, improves greatly with the stamina restoration on melee wep activation node

granted you play this a little more standard-ly

than the knife/laspistol one

not quite as borderline suicidal at times since neither weapon is as mobile as those two

still can accomplish those backline deletions though, you dont have to commit as much since you ahve the frags to just wipe everything out with 2 of them

[versed osprey]

whats the statdump on the Columnus mkV fellas?

[bitter turtle]

just jmake sure damage and stopping is high

mobility above 51

mobility is almost always a dump as long as its 51

the actual effect of mobility above that is negligble

you just dont want to lose the dodge

low-ish stability might be annoying but is hardly fatal, not a super extreme effect like a low stability v3

ammo is ammo

its nice

it wont kill you if its low though

[versed osprey]

is stability at 68% noticeable?

[bitter turtle]

that's probably perfectly fine

if you ever find it difficult to control

just crouch

it helps lower the recoil

[versed osprey]

I've got a 79% dmg 80% ammo 80% stopping 68% stability and 65% mov

[bitter turtle]

i'd just roll with that

its not like its a sniper gun anyway

you CAN pick off snipers

but its not like you're donig full auto in that situation anyway

you're going to be burst firing whiel crouched or something

[versed osprey]

and what blessings do you roll on that?

[bitter turtle]

dumdum is mandatory and you can pair it with a few things

1. raking fire - situational (but very high) damage boost, really big boss damage boost
2. fire frenzy/deathspitter - its more damage
3. hit and run - lets you get bullet immunitry on a close range kill, good for darting around and shooting things to death if you like playing close up to enemies
4. stripped down - some people swear by this but i think its fairly mediocre tbh, since you actually already have this effect naturally as long as you dont face the gunner on your screen, but it works if you have it

[versed osprey]

neat

[bitter turtle]

there's a lot of owrkable options, just dont run terrifying meme or someshit

[versed osprey]

thank you

didnt get Dumdum sadly

will have to buildit

is speedload any good?

[bitter turtle]

no

not really

[versed osprey]

given that i already have the talent to realod faster

I see

[bitter turtle]

it probably

[versed osprey]

then speedload is going away

[bitter turtle]

wokulld have been good

if they didnt nerf it

used to proc off melee kills

instead of close range gun kills

its a complete meme now

[versed osprey]

now all I have to do is find a tier IV Dumdum

[bitter turtle]

dw

tier 3 dumdum is good enough

its literally

0.5% dmg per stack

[versed osprey]

easier sayed than done tho

[bitter turtle]

you're not gonna notice

[versed osprey]

xD

bet

thanks!

[bitter turtle]

np

[versed osprey]

You cannot learn blessings from different weapons right?

[bitter turtle]

you can if its in teh same family

so you can grab dumdum off Agri IAG or Graia IAG

[versed osprey]

omg

[bitter turtle]

but no, you cant grab it off like

recon or someshit

[versed osprey]

i wish I knew this sooner

wait

I learnt from a graia dumdum tier IV

and it doesnt appear on my columnus

[last parcel]

fammily is the last words

like infantry autogun

[bitter turtle]

is it

"graia braced autogun"

actually wait

brautos dont have dumdum

[last parcel]

oh yeah

[versed osprey]

so.. different family

[bitter turtle]

idk but i assure you same family shares blessings

so as long as you sac'd an infantry autogun

if you can

show me th e gun you sac'd

[versed osprey]

game is in spanish tho..

[bitter turtle]

i can figure it out

[woven vigil]

@bitter turtle thanks for the build suggestions and crash course on the commando vet! I'll give it a proper try this evening once I am off work

[versed osprey]

as you can see I have it crafted it in my graia

[bitter turtle]

i dont see

dumdum on your graia

i see deathspitter and terrifying meme

[versed osprey]

last blessing

[bitter turtle]

yes

that is deathspitter

not dumdum

[versed osprey]

ah damn

Im the dumdum

but deathsplitter doesnt show on my columnus

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/bee0b577b3206a3be1169efc667417b0.png

because

that is a brauced autogun

not an infantry autogun

[versed osprey]

true

[bitter turtle]

which explains my previous confusion

deathspitter is on a braced auto

dumdum is not a braced auto blessing

and you are using an infantry auto

so whatever belssings come from braced autos will not work

[normal spruce]

The Omnissiah loves me, only need to make one more change, which perk should I go for?

[grizzled pebble]

Does bulwark count as armoured target for the krak penance?

Maniac ^

[bleak jungle]

It should

[bitter turtle]

yes

[grizzled pebble]

Okay nice.

[bitter turtle]

but frankly

[grizzled pebble]

Man that penance is slow.

[bitter turtle]

the best way to finish that btw

group up scab bruisers and shooters

yes

the trash mobs

get grenade tinkerer

and try to kill as many in a pack as possible in hordes

[grizzled pebble]

My last 2.

[bitter turtle]

lol

it technically sticks to them

and they technically count as armored

[vapid nacelle]

Intelligent enough people of the veteran chat, any major balance changes with this latest update? What're the cool kids using now, what fell off

[last parcel]

survivalist got a 5 second cooldown. marksman focus has a longer grace period for moving without losing stacks. bolter/plasma has mroe trouble opening bulwark shields

oh sorry i didn't see the first few words

[vapid nacelle]

There, fixed it, you now apply

[last parcel]

thank you

[vapid nacelle]

Survivalist nerf sounds fine, Marksman Focus sounds awesome, still haven't gotten around to using either Bolter or Plasma since Plasma was buffed to have 100 cleave, will have to try it

Coolio, thanks mate

On another note, I need a good melee weapon that isn't a power sword, what's the best options atm

For horde management mostly

[weak token]

chainsword

[last parcel]

mk vii shovel, mk iv/vii dclaw, chainsword

[vapid nacelle]

Alright cool I've got chainswords lying around, that'll do

Thanks again mates

Have a good one

Guess I had this lying around, not sure how optimal it is, I don't trust past me's thought processes lol

[weak token]

below 50% mobility is very sadge

but besides that, its pretty servicecable

[vapid nacelle]

Oh I see that, only 4 dodges. Revolting

[weak token]

its usable besides that

[vapid nacelle]

Is Defences or Mobility the dump stat on it

[weak token]

u might want decimator if u really wanna horde clear tho

[weak token]

i would say defense is more of a dump stat than mobility

[vapid nacelle]

This one is power on chained hits right

the +5% 10 times I think

Or do I have the wrong one in mind

[weak token]

correct

from my experience, without decimator, u're annoying the horde more than killing them

just slappin them around

[vapid nacelle]

Gotcha

Uncanny Strike, Decimator? And what would the ideal perks be

[weak token]

but u have infested dmg, its not too bad

ideal for me is deci + uncanny

[vapid nacelle]

Deci Uncanny, Maniacs I assume is staple, it seems to be good on everything

Is there a better second perk

than infested I mean

[last parcel]

it’s not the best but still usable. uncanny is good to help with flak. deci is good, but there’s another option to keep in mind. thrust and the carapace perk can let you oneshot crushers with the right build

[bitter turtle]

i disagree

thrust and carapace better imo

[vapid nacelle]

Gotcha, will do

Wait just thrust?

Or is Decimator needed for that too

[weak token]

thrust is for bursting crushers with special attack

[vapid nacelle]

Uncanny I mean

[vapid nacelle]

This sounds like what I need

Something that can horde clear and also bust open crushers swarming me in a pinch

[bitter turtle]

no

decimator is honestly

kinda bad imo

it resets on a miss

[weak token]

its not like u hit slow

[bitter turtle]

like its the 'best" horde clear blessing but its a really annoying blessing

to do anything with

also

you'

[weak token]

and u dont really kill them fast anyway

[bitter turtle]

are spamming heavies on mk7

so you dont stack it up that fast

in that case thrust is helping you with horde anyway

[weak token]

lights are enough

[bitter turtle]

lights are worse than heavy spam for mk7

[vapid nacelle]

Difference of playstyle, I'm gathering from this

[bitter turtle]

not really

heavies on mk7 are big horizontal sweeps

[vapid nacelle]

I prefer the heavy spam for horde clear anyway, Thrust sounds like my type of deal

[bitter turtle]

there is no objective reason to use lights

besides

like maybe

"get off me" kinda moments

where you're panicking

there's an argument for mk3

[vapid nacelle]

So you would run Thrust + Uncanny then?

[bitter turtle]

the heavies are not that amazing on mk3

so light spam can be legit for that for horde clearing

yes and change maniac to carapace

you can build the shovel to oneshot a crusher

with some talents on the tree

[vapid nacelle]

Would Unyielding not be better than Carapace?

[bitter turtle]

no

actually

unyiedling is the most

[useless thing you can pick tbh

the shovel biggest weakness is it has really

REALLY

ass modifiers against unyielding

like let me put it this way

you can oneshot a crusher

but not a bulwark

that is how ass the modifiers are

you can see just how awful it is if you go against a boss and start swinging the shovel

you do like no dmg

[vapid nacelle]

Oh ok, thought Unyielding targeted the same targets Carapace does

[bitter turtle]

nah

unyielding is reapers/bulwarks/bosses

carapace is mostly just crushers

and maulers in this case since your heavy is an overhead

so its hard to hit their flak body]

[vapid nacelle]

I see

So Thrust, Uncanny Strike, Carapace and the final perk would be

[bitter turtle]

you dont have a choice

you're stuck with the shitty infested one

well

its not SUPER shitty

[vapid nacelle]

Oh no, I plan on making another

[bitter turtle]

poxwalkers are infested so it helps hordes a bit

uhhh

[vapid nacelle]

I have the plasteel and dockets to do it

[bitter turtle]

i'd go

there's 3 options imo

maybe 2?

flak is an obvious choice

helps you beat down bruisers better

other choice would be elite

if you take elite you might be able to skimp on some vet talents to hit the 1 shot crusher bp

MAYBE unarmored?

if you wanna beat up hordes better, and some elites are unarmored so it might help there somewhat maybe idk

that one is weaker of a pick i think though

flak or elite is probably the best choices

maniac is rather pointless

you already oneshot crushers with thrust

dont even really need to stack it much

same with ragers

[vapid nacelle]

Flak, Carapace, Thrust, Uncanny Strike then

[bitter turtle]

yeah

elite is legit too

it really will save you a point or two

which means you can grab something else

[vapid nacelle]

I'll give both a shot, see which one I like more

[bitter turtle]

but flak will help a lot against bruisers

i guess

you know

unarmored is fine too

you wanna aim for headshots

scab bruisers = unarmored heads

so feel free to use unarmored too tbh

gives you more options not to brick

[vapid nacelle]

I'm considering unarmored too since I'm more in need of a horde manager than anything at the moment, my vet's melee weapons suck lol

[bitter turtle]

its definitely valid

so if you get unarmored one just use it

[vapid nacelle]

Gotcha, will do

[bitter turtle]

i only say dont use decimator cause i used to use one

its really not worth it imo

especially on 7

its patching over the weapon's weaker aspects and not abusing just the best part about it, being able to delete almost any elite/sepcial (besides bulwark) you look at in one shot while being able to control hordes well with sweeping heavies

[vapid nacelle]

I'll get right to work on it then, the sooner I can stop being almost a liability to my team in hordes the better lol

[last parcel]

it’s gonna be annoying enough to roll a good shovel with 1/3 of carapace/uncanny/thrust. i’d just forget about the second perk and view it as a bonus if you get something good

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[vapid nacelle]

The above shovel and a chainaxe are the two best weapons my vet's ever obtained, not exactly ideal

[bitter turtle]

like i was gonna say infested is fine enough

its not ideal but the 2nd perk isnt make or break either

mostly you just wanted carapace/thrust/uncanny

[vapid nacelle]

I have this thing too, it's fun but good GOD is it unwieldy

[bitter turtle]

well

you have bloodletter

you could run thunderous

instead of slaughterer

for the meme

if you're wondering what the meme is

you basically just rev special light

and then dodge out immediately

dont even let the dmg go through

and let them just bleed to death

since it applies full stacks on the first h it

lol

i think it kills most elite/specials

[vapid nacelle]

I think the only reason I have Slaughterer is because I was just that desperate for something to handle hordes decently

[last parcel]

[bitter turtle]

nah slaughterer is good

just saying

its an option lul

[vapid nacelle]

I'm here for memes, I'm totally down for it

[bitter turtle]

just make sure

whatever shovel you get

[vapid nacelle]

Mk VI Combat Blade started as a meme and became my favorite weapon on psyker, so I'm definitely down to meme and try anything

[bitter turtle]

has high damage/pen/first target

mobility and defense dont matter as long as mobility is above 50

https://i.gyazo.com/f073b38119f9c489ceaa3ef71179bf57.png

this is mine

[vapid nacelle]

Time to dump 3m dockets just to get a max roll everything but 49 mobility

Oh yeah, can this lil man do anything

[bitter turtle]

looks literally perfect

as long as hadron doesnt fuck it up

so yes

[vapid nacelle]

Let's see if she does

lmao

She bricked literally every roll

[bitter turtle]

what'd you get

[bitter turtle]

wow

yeah that's shit

😔

[radiant chasm]

[bitter turtle]

save it

just in case

crafting rework s-surely

[last parcel]

[vapid nacelle]

How's this guy

[bitter turtle]

depends on the last roll

but usable at least for sure

[vapid nacelle]

I also have another one of these apparently, maybe I'm not totally doomed

[bitter turtle]

yeah

looks good

ive tested low stability vs high

mine is literally 20 for reference (stability)

its really not a problem

so that looks good

[vapid nacelle]

A minor offset but nothing too insane

[bitter turtle]

there is a small amount of increased recoil

but its very consistent recoil

so you can just account for it

[vapid nacelle]

I stg

[bitter turtle]

elite damage is workable

probably not ideal but workable

you could yolo for the last one

honestly

elite should be fine

its a spam gun anyway

[vapid nacelle]

I'll save it for now

I have the guns I need anyway, I usually stay with laspistol or helbores

[chilly cobalt]

Wtf with psykers shield

[normal spruce]

I love Power Cycler 4!!!! I will sacrifice my life for Power Cycler 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[somber axle]

brunt serving me up a delicious new recon

yeah she's good LMFAO

https://tenor.com/view/oh-dear-gordon-ramsay-gordon-ramsay-kid-gordon-ramsay-oh-dear-gif-16875701

[normal spruce]

Damn, nice,

[somber axle]

she's near perfect in my eyes

at last

muties die

[last parcel]

might be something weird with how your gpu drivers are interacting with the game

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/fwayri-gif-21921104

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-legend-of-korra-korra-its-perfect-nickelodeon-gif-4462278

[tough tiger]

god roll 6 d

[somber axle]

at last the Emperor has heard my clown performance

and rewarded me

[last parcel]

makes me want to take 6 d’s

wait no

[somber axle]

[untold mulch]

When the shield psyker, peeks too much into the warp

[untold mulch]

Homie has gotten a potential 550 for a thurd in a stick

Still amazing rollç

[somber axle]

I'm still grinding my Marksman's Focus 10 stack kills for the penance tbh

so no recon in my quickplays yet but she'll be wonderful to use when I've finished this penance

[last parcel]

why aren’t you using recon for that

that’s like the one socially acceptable time to use it

[somber axle]

I can't afford to the talent points for Marksman's Focus with my build

though maybe if I swap over from Focus Target...

[bitter turtle]

marksman focus is more damage

[last parcel]

just make an alternative build\loadout

[bitter turtle]

might a swell try and see if you like it

iirc, when i tried magdumping on a mutant head

10 stacks of MF was basically around the same power as 5 focus

for recon

[last parcel]

the issue is that it’ll make the deadshot meme much harder to pull off

[bitter turtle]

yeah

no stam regen

[somber axle]

yeah the stam regen is very important

[ocean idol]

is the bug back?

[bleak jungle]

Most likely it's them using a mod to do that.

[normal spruce]

Okay, Surgical 3 or Headhunter 3 blessing on Vraks Headhunter Autogun? Which one is just better for most situations?

Or both? I can do both but then I will have to replace deadly accurate 3

[last parcel]

which headhunter

[normal spruce]

MK VII

[last parcel]

surgical

[normal spruce]

So not both?

[last parcel]

you need deadly accurate to get one shot kills

i forgot the exact ones

surgical gives good crit chance, so tou dont need to double up even if that wasnt the case

[normal spruce]

Right, so since Surgical 3 gives 10% crit chance for every 0.25 seconds you ads, does that mean even if you constantly fire, each shot will have a 10% chance of being a crit? Since Vraks MK 7 have 4.00 shots per second fire rate

[bitter turtle]

no both

no

surgical /DA for v7

headhunter/DA for v3

for agri HH

whatever you want cause its the weird middle child anyway

[dire olive]

Surgical works for any, the crit applies to the whole burst

[bitter turtle]

its nota burst

he's using v7

[dire olive]

And I said any?

[bitter turtle]

if you fire nonstop you will not get another surgical proc

but v7 is not supposed to fire nonstop outside of maulers and crusher anyway

[dire olive]

I know with tier IV at least you always get one stack

[normal spruce]

So I should just wait and one tap?

[bitter turtle]

the way you build the gun is to 1tap every non-carapce elite/specialist except a maniac dreg ragers

you dont need to even wait

you just shoot

and let surgical do its thing

if it crits

great

if it doesnt

oh well

shoot again

[last parcel]

fuck you hadron

[bitter turtle]

enemy gunners should be killed in 1 hit without a crit anyway

if you build it right

the only enemies you need a crit to 1tap notably are flak ragers, both flamers

but even then, you are runining deadshot on the build

so dont hold it extra long

just enough to get your crosshari on their head

the gun absolutely requires you go for ehadshots outside of maulers

as in

you will literally do like

1/4th of the damage on a bodyshot

mostly against maniacs

since the modifiers are bad there

[normal spruce]

The unarmoured gunner I can kill with a single shot, flak gunner on the other hand I need two shots, as I don't have flak damage increase perk, I wasted both 2 modifications on changing the blessings.

[dire olive]

Recon is horrible with MF lol it can't land the kills consistently at all

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/6caafaf2b6be5c9f513ce343f1b13ad1.png

this is the ideal

https://i.gyazo.com/c963732e528f4ec0e4bb781698eca438.png

and this is the tree

last 2 points go anywhere

[dire olive]

Probably duck n dive

[normal spruce]

I'm almost this, except instead of flak damage, I have maniac, and my unarmoured damage is 20%+

[bitter turtle]

if you have maniac

you can drop 10% rending

and you have a 3rd free point

[normal spruce]

Great, thanks

I did invest on it, now to choose where to put it

[bitter turtle]

the gun is so insanely efficient at sniping out gunners that i frankly think you wont get it to proc much

personally i stick it on demo team

and volley adept

[last parcel]

we’re penance farming, not making top tier builds

[dire olive]

Well it's bad at farming if it can't get the stacks up

[bitter turtle]

recon ha slike

[normal spruce]

Why not go for confirmed kill and close order? They seem good

[bitter turtle]

no recoil

how are you not getting headshots on it

[bitter turtle]

you can

feel free

i just prefer more grenades

i dont feel fragile

this is a voc build

by necessity, unfortunately

i'd love to run stealth but its impossible to find points to do it

[dire olive]

Is not that you can't get headshots, it's that they take awhile to kill

[bitter turtle]

the gun demands way too many talents to function optimally

[bitter turtle]

i know this is gonna sound controversial

but just pick up a 7

[normal spruce]

I kinda feel fragile, so I think I should keep those two points invested there

[bitter turtle]

aim it roughly int he direction of the horde's heads

and hold down left click

there's your stacks

[dire olive]

Or

[bitter turtle]

sure, whatever you feel like

i called it 2 free points for a reason

[dire olive]

Just sell it and grab a laspistol

There isn't always just a horde nearby for you to farm

[bitter turtle]

by that logic

there isn't always an elite to tag for redirect fire

you dont even really need to farm it

its trivial to maintain MF now

if you unironically cannot hit headshots with a 6 second grace period

then just pick another keystone

[last parcel]

yeah but people seem to hate earning achievements naturally

[bitter turtle]

if you want to artificially rush MF keystone

you dont even use a gun

you crabwalk melee

with a knife

doing side dodges for mobility

[dire olive]

I'm shitting on recon not saying MF is hard

Good lord people and their ego

[bitter turtle]

how is this an ego thing

im just saying

you shoot things in the head

its not the highest damage

but its weird to say you literally cant killw ith it

[dire olive]

I guess most of my experience is with the VId that sprays everywhere

[bitter turtle]

it does not spray everywhere

its pretty much a laser beam in a straight line

[last parcel]

you need to aim down sights

[late hatch]

It looks like it does, but it actually doesnt

[bitter turtle]

if there's one actual good aspect of them its that i cannot imagine someone struggling to aim with them

if they are then they should just play psyker or ogryn or something, there is literally nothing easier to aim with

0 recoil

[dire olive]

Well then it's just the bad damage and having to track moving targets in an actual game

[bitter turtle]

having to track moving targets is something every single gun has to do

as for bad damage

yes

its bad

but its not like

sub 1000 dps

[dire olive]

Not when one shot is enough

[bitter turtle]

unless we're talking about a talentless grey recon

on a mutant

like

juiced up with the talent tree

it does about 2k on a mutant

which is still shit when you consider ciag exceeds 4k probably

but its disingenuous to say it literally cant kill things

[dire olive]

I didn't say that

I said it struggles

Wait no, I said "can't land the kills consistently"

[bitter turtle]

idk what this convo is even more, im not even a recon defender, you can search my post history and i constantly say it sucks, but its not like its literally unplayable

it lands kills consistently

anything does unless you're just not good

and im not saying that as an ego thing

[dire olive]

It does kind of feel like you're just calling me bad

Which is rude

[bitter turtle]

believe me

i dont even think that

i dont even think you actually played recon for yourself

so no i dont th ink you are bad

i just think you bought in too hard on the memeing on it

[dire olive]

Nah I've tried it a few times

Every time it's just disappointing

Because I want it to be good, but it just isn't

[bitter turtle]

ok let me put it this way

you act like every pug game is just sniper vets shooting every elite out from under your nose 40m away before you can even reach it

you have plenty of time to kill things with a gun that hits about 2k dps on flak and maniac, that's literally 1 second to kill a rager, which again, its not like AMAZING or even good, but you are not going to struggle if you point it at their head and hold the button down

its not like you're trying to shoot carapace with an infantry lasgun

and believe me

people do not snipe shit out from under you

i was really

wishing they did

when i was farming that shitty smite penance

[agile yew]

Time to find out how hard Hadron bricks this

[bitter turtle]

playing smiteker and watching 6 shotgunners stunlocked for 10 seconds with nobody shooting them

[late hatch]

recon d is fine

It isnt as good as the best guns in the game, but it def kills things.

[dire olive]

Scoreboards are worthless, your teammates could be anyone

[late hatch]

Everyone did very similar damage. You can see I was picking elites and specials, plus that boss dps.

[bitter turtle]

that is my point

in the average game

you are not going to struggle to look for kills because everyone is a pro knife vet/zealot rushing ahead and deleting the entire game before you can touch them

recon can do fine

if you can aim

its a subpar gun

[late hatch]

Scoreboards give you info, but not conclusive proof.

[bitter turtle]

its not literally unusable

[dire olive]

Scoreboard will show you that generally you are good, not your loadout

And even then stats only show so much about your gameplay

[agile yew]

Now if only i had Power Cycler IV

[dire olive]

For example, stat farming a group of enemies that 3 players are already taking care of maybe isn't as good as taking out the trapper about to sneak up and yoink the ogryn

[bitter turtle]

like again

not saying its a great gun

https://i.gyazo.com/9ea2b744997d75e1b24d9edc6d5abd8a.jpg

but you hit 2k dps with it at least on flak

if you literally cant get kills to stack MF

then its not a gun problem

[late hatch]

see disabler

Again it isnt full proof or a recording of the entire gameplay, but if you can read numbers and know how the game works you can get a lot of info from a scoreboard

[dire olive]

That kind of misses my point

[agile yew]

Just realised that Power Sword ended up being my first 550 rating item

[dire olive]

Again you're good

But people get hung up on scoreboard stats

[late hatch]

No. If you look at the numbers you can see taht as the vet I was focussed on clearing high threat enemies.

[bitter turtle]

your original point was that MF on recon is not a good choice because you cant kill anything fast enough to stack it

[late hatch]

People do chase the board, but there is def good info you can extract

I would take my recon d over a shredder any day

[dire olive]

Well like I said, it does give you a general idea

[agile yew]

I hope they do balance patch soon that brings about the 80% of weapons ingame that dont really get used and underperform vs the top in better state

And especially the 10% that are totally useless, like Power Maul

[dire olive]

Yeah

[bitter turtle]

its just a few outliers

honestly

i think recon 7 is actually not absolutely terrible

just middle of the road

i was convinced playing acouple games with someone a while ago

so its really just

shredder autopistol, recon II

that are just dogshit fucking horrible

[trim hemlock]

Middle of the road between 6 and 2, or half-a-competitive weapon overall

[bitter turtle]

overall

actually

i was playing v7 and craime was playing agri brauto

he lost, but not by that much

[trim hemlock]

It has cleave… that has some merit when you need to kill something behind a wave of trash enemies

[bitter turtle]

like as in, he was only under me by about 20k damage

out of like 450k damage

craime was higher but he was a fucking brauto farming hordes anyway

and what surprised me even more is the 7 really didnt use that much ammo

i guess because you dont need to waste as many shots if you just penetrate the horde directly to your target

trying it myself, i think its better than 6d

genuinely

because 6d is obligated to do that stupid ass onslaught meme

and waste 4 points on the tree

[dire olive]

I wonder what they should prioritise buff-wise

[bitter turtle]

the better way (i think) is just ignore onslaught and accept you arent killing crushers with a fuckingn recon

kek

that way you can juice the damage against other targets to be... ok

[trim hemlock]

Power maul and Krourk stubber on Ogryn

[dire olive]

Oh I should specify, aspects of the recon

The II definitely needs damage

[trim hemlock]

Making its Crit/Finesse damage not garbage would be a start

[dire olive]

Yeah was about to say

For a gun so good at hitting heads

[balmy flume]

…I was told by someone else with True Level mod that I am at 700ish…
…which feels embarrassing because I must say I do not feel like I am playing as pro as the hours imply.
I just really like the game and the class 😅 😓

[normal spruce]

Is Stamina regeneration an important curio perk for vets, even if you don't have deadshot? I was told that toughness regen on vets wasn't the best

[bitter turtle]

i like stamina regen

[trim hemlock]

It’s nice to have it, IMO

[bitter turtle]

and yes toughness regen is not very good

[dire olive]

It's nice (stam)

[bitter turtle]

on vet

[normal spruce]

What is your favorite curio perk for vets?

[balmy flume]

Welp time to modify some of those on mine to +Toughness instead.

[bitter turtle]

i run hp/stam/cdr

cdr because i run infiltrate, i wouldnt run it on voc

[trim hemlock]

+Toughness, Ordo dockets, 2x Stamina regen and 1x Gunner resist is what I typically use

[balmy flume]

I also run Sniper resist on my curios

All 3 of them.

[bitter turtle]

i lowkey kinda dont like gunner resist on vet but i get why people run it

but i personally feel iike on vet, its literally like your job to kill gunners and shit

[balmy flume]

Ideally I take down a sniper I see before they shoot, but then it gives me a bit of room to take a hit in case some zombie horde close by manages to stagger my shot/a situation demands my immediate attention moreso than gunning down a sniper (e.g. netted teammate/Crusher squad)

[bitter turtle]

maybe its just the guns i play but i delete them so fast it doesnt ever really matter

sniper i'd prefer if i had to pick one, you dont get sniped often but its very fucking painful when it happens

[dire olive]

Gunner resist might not be useful 99% of the time but when it is it really is

[balmy flume]

Also remember sniper gauntlets are a condition lol

[dire olive]

On those rare occasions a gunner decides to drop off a balcony behind you

[bitter turtle]

in clutch situations its not really the gunners im worreid about anyway

[trim hemlock]

I don't like being stripped immediately, and while Iron Will typically helps with that, Gunner resist adds value to that whenever it's needed

[bitter turtle]

you can just sprint and become bullet immune

and god knows you are sprinting nonstop in clutch scenarios

[trim hemlock]

And provided that not all teams are perfect and sometimes I get caught in the open, having some sort of resist can occasionally help

[bitter turtle]

ya i mean, out of all the resist effects, gunners are by far the most common, so like i said, i get it

but personally i'df just stack 3x toughness

it helps against melee too that way

[trim hemlock]

Yeah, but try that on a stamina-intensive build when you're out. You can't dodge bullets when you're breathless

3x toughness I use always, if I can

[bitter turtle]

and improves your toughness generation off ET/CK/OFB

i mean the minor toughness perks

the 5%s

unelss you mean you do 3x of those too

[trim hemlock]

Oh, hold on, I made a blunder

I don't use that 1x Gunner resist anymore

[agile yew]

Which Mk power sword was the good one?

[bitter turtle]

6 but if you have a good 3

[trim hemlock]

this is what I have on a deadshot bolter build

[bitter turtle]

3 is still a good weapon

very good

its just 6 is even better

[agile yew]

Ok glad mine is 6 then, 5 months of trying to get Power Cycler 4 and still cant use Power Swords

[trim hemlock]

PC3 is also fine

[agile yew]

Tried it and felt i had to be powering it up more than swinging it almost

[bitter turtle]

you have to power it up a lot either way

[agile yew]

Will just use Rashad instead before i get Cycler4

[bitter turtle]

yeah

if oyu have a good rashad

its going to outperform a pc3 sword

[agile yew]

Have one that headshots everything except one bruiser, but that goes down also if get 1-2 stacks of headtaker

[bitter turtle]

that's normal

its very hard to hit stackless headshot bp on vet

https://i.gyazo.com/7874efba7072592a9fd81f0001e1d554.png

even this struggles

since it has no headtaker

lel

i have to take a ton of melee talents ot get the oneshot

so relying on a couple stack sof headtaker is perfectly fine

[agile yew]

Veteran my lowest level class atm just because no luck with weapons

My Rashas im using with it

[normal spruce]

Does Melk's random curio thing only give wounds? I said fuck it and bought 3 and all were wound curios

[radiant chasm]

nope, just true random fun

[normal spruce]

One more try

Wound again

[radiant chasm]

99% of rejects quit right before they win big

[dire olive]

[balmy flume]

I think I lucked out a single Curio with +17% Toughness…never seen another since I got that one.

[agile yew]

https://accounts.atoma.cloud/dashboard just check that once hour to see if 17% toughness or 21% hp or +3stam available

Thats how i got mine

[trim hemlock]

Buying random curios at Melk is also a viable alternative

If you don’t mind the bucks

[dire olive]

Clearly

[agile yew]

Right now there

[radiant chasm]

Once per hour shop not everyone can check and also it is a pain

If you have spare melk coins it is way faster

Can’t imagine the time it would take even for a semi casual player to get 3 wound curios if they only used the hourly shop

[balmy flume]

Ironically since I was farming Melk Bucks just by playing a lot (and abusing Brunt and Hadron until they gave me what I need) might do some Melk gambling.

[radiant chasm]

Let alone 3x 21%hp/17% tough

[agile yew]

Maybe week in my case? And i wasnt interested playing wound build anyway so they just came along while at it

[radiant chasm]

Yea like it is good to check the two shops when you can but it’s limited stock and likely to be below cap

[balmy flume]

Also curios in Ordo Store/Melk Gatcha run the risk of, well, giving you undesired perks when you upgrade/purchase them

Melk shop, the golden Curios are all fully perked so you see what you are getting.

[radiant chasm]

Curios are easier to craft in general

Only 1/3 will be locked

[balmy flume]

True, but sometimes Hadron hates you, and just gives you resistance (bombers), extra Ordo Dockets and extra chance for Curios :p

[radiant chasm]

I know some weird farmers who would kill for dockets on curios

[balmy flume]

O.o

If there was in game trade it would be understandable…

[trim hemlock]

I must stay put

I cannot be discovered

[dire olive]

The real docket farm is to just play auric

[radiant chasm]

I wish curio drop rate did anything worthwhile so maybe i’d make xp+curio droprate curios on alts

[trim hemlock]

But you can play Auric… and get even more ordos

[radiant chasm]

Gotta do the brunt gamba

[trim hemlock]

There is purpose in that

[radiant chasm]

Do the melk gamba to feed the brunt gamba to feed the hadron gamba

[balmy flume]

But…you just need to endlessly grind normal Damnation for Brunt Gatcha 🤣

[radiant chasm]

Then test your luck at the AI director gamba

Woe, 2 dozen crushers upon ye

[dire olive]

And the emprah gift gamba

[radiant chasm]

Extra dockets come in handy (idk if they actually do or not or how they interact with QP bonus)

[balmy flume]

Talking of which, on the one hand, we don’t have Tox Bomber resistance.
But on the other hand…I imagine it would give resistance to their kicks…again

[radiant chasm]

Huh we dont

Corruption resist (generalized) one should work

Once it starts hitting your hp bar

[balmy flume]

Yea normally I just VoC and tank the fog, or just run out of it ASAP

[shadow aurora]

Tox bomber should just be lumped into bomber res

Would actually give a reason to take it

[trim hemlock]

It might be.

I asked somebody more competent for a more thorough answer

[balmy flume]

Assuming it is not just the bomber kick but actually resistance to the Tox gas…

Then it is certainly worth thinking about

[shadow aurora]

?wdym

Does reg bomber res not give resistance to fire?

[balmy flume]

Reg bomber gives you a resistance to their kicks, apparently.

Not the flames of the bomb…

(Yea, it’s weird, I know, don’t shoot the messenger)

[shadow aurora]

Its almost like fatsharks trying at this point...

[bitter turtle]

its fixed apparently

not that ive tested it myself

still seems very meh of a curio

stat

[shadow aurora]

Oh

[balmy flume]

oh interesting,

[trim hemlock]

Yeah, it should be working as expected, I.e., against the flames

But it’s still not a great curio perk

[balmy flume]

Then if Tox Bombers are under reg bombers, might be worth thinking about then.

The Gas version is arguably worse than flame for blocking line of sight.

(Not that there is much difference on Aurics, when you entire screen is just orange flames lol)

[white minnow]

it turning off highlights is a banger

[balmy flume]

Gas turns off highlight abilities!?
Including Vet’s targeting one?

[white minnow]

ye

[balmy flume]

(Mostly too busy surviving to ever have noticed lol)

[normal spruce]

Should I not go for Krak Grenade if I put talent points on Onslaught and have a MK V Infantry Autogun? Is smoke grenade good, or should I go for the shredder if not Krak

[bitter turtle]

imo

krak is the worst grenade now

[normal spruce]

Really?

[bitter turtle]

its not useless

but its the most niche

ive said this before but even against pack sof crushers, id rather have shredder still

it knocks them down and kills all gunners/specials in the vicinity so you dont ened to worry about being blindsided

so you can safely dispatch the crushers

meanwhile what happens when you thorw a krak

it kills 1

[normal spruce]

Damn, I had it on all my classes, thanks I will be switching to shredder

[bitter turtle]

maybe 2 if you're lucky

great, now you still have 6 more to deal with

and god knows what is hiding behind them

[balmy flume]

Personally I would still use Krak.
If only because I suck at high pressure CQC with Crushers. (I know my own weakness)

[bitter turtle]

shredder is by far the best grenade

smoke after all the buffs

is pretty legit now

as well

on top of less pressure to go left for the stupid ass surv aura

it really is very safe to fight in it

if you're using shredders

just remember

throw 1 for crowd control

2 for killing

[balmy flume]

Oddly the Crusher squads I run into tend to have nothing but zombie hordes behind them. Or maulers/ragers at most.
Never had a situation where I Krak Nade a Crusher to then regret facing whatever is behind them.

[bitter turtle]

even so

it just doesnt really solve a problem

killing 1 or 2 isnt good enough

[grand perch]

Course it does

[bitter turtle]

even if its just trash hordes it makes it annoying to engage them in melee

i'd rather have the entire horde just flat out deleted and then just safely smack them around while they're slowly getting up

[vague smelt]

What is the difference between Fire Frenzy and Deathspitter?

[bitter turtle]

fire frenzy gives close range damage

deathspitter gives a power boost

[vague smelt]

Huh

makes sense

[bitter turtle]

they both stack at close range, but deathspitter's boost works at all ranges

[balmy flume]

But…you have to do that if using VoC anyways XD

[grizzled pebble]

Weird glove man

[normal spruce]

Sorry, higher percentage close range damage increase vs lower percentage power increase

[bitter turtle]

i suggest trying shredder for yourself, its easy to talk about hypotheticals tbh

but hard to visualize just how clutch shredder can be

throwing 2 shredders has a similar effect to throwing the big grenade on ogryn

[vague smelt]

I have a question

[bitter turtle]

anything that isnt a mauler or ogryn in the vicinity just dies

[balmy flume]

I will try it more often perhaps, but again, never been confident with my mixed CQC skills with crushers in them.

[vague smelt]

Which one of the next Columnus V is better

[grand perch]

Both grenades are perfectly good options, use whatever you feel like

[bitter turtle]

they're both good

[balmy flume]

I had one assassination mission where I actually blew up the target in the face with a Krak.

[bitter turtle]

i suggest just fixing both up so you have two ssets of blessings to play with

[grand perch]

Even if you delete 3 out of 6 crushers, that's still 3 less you need to dodge to not get insta gibbed

[bitter turtle]

you can uset he left one for deathspitter/dumdum for straight damage boosts

[balmy flume]

For shits and giggles.

[normal spruce]

I saw on the veteran build you sent me on MK VII Headhunter that you picked survivalist as your aura, why is it better than fire team, and should I use survivalist on all builds?

[vague smelt]

Nevermind I got the blessing to rip

[bitter turtle]

and then turn the right one into a hit & run + dumdum for the gunner immunity

o nice

raking fire is also good though

LEL

[bitter turtle]

survivalist is still probably the best aura

[agile yew]

As kickback ogryn player, yes use survivalist on all builds!

[normal spruce]

Me over here with tier 2 dumdum, but then again I got Power Cycler 4 too so I can't complain

[bitter turtle]

but

ok

[grand perch]

Fire team bonus is almost laughable and typically doesn't help reaching any notable break points

[bitter turtle]

let me say this

fire team is only good

[vague smelt]

Play 10 Auric missions

[bitter turtle]

if you need 5% more damage

[vague smelt]

earn your plasteel as a good player

then go pray Hadron

do this everyday

[bitter turtle]

nobody sane goes "yes i will build for this breakpoint that only works if the vet happens to bring fire team and is in coherency with me"

that's just nonsense

and yes this applies to all damage auras

[normal spruce]

Damnation is getting a bit easy, how much harder is Auric?

[bitter turtle]

nobody cares that an ogryn brought heavy attack aura besides the ogryn

[balmy flume]

Survivalist + Las weapons + Shocktrooper.
Ultimate self ammo economy lol.

[bitter turtle]

the normal auric missions are a little harder because they have more modifiers

maelstrom is significantly harder i'd say

[normal spruce]

Ok doing survivalist on all my builds, I have been missing out

[grand perch]

If it was like +20% damage for 5 seconds when killing specialists or elites, I'd take it in a heartbeat

[bitter turtle]

just remember th at its ok not to take it if you path smoke grenade nowadays

movespeed aura is pretty decent

[agile yew]

It used to be "easier" because more competent players on average, but now everyone is penance hunting there and its a mess

[balmy flume]

And actually come to think of it Shredder is above Survialist, so that would free up one more point on my tree.

[bitter turtle]

yeah

that's one of the reasons i take survivalist on that v7 tree

i really want shredder in that build

[balmy flume]

May need to re-learn Shredder after all.

[bitter turtle]

and it leads right into survivalist

im not gonna path out of my way when the tree is already stretched thin

frankly

the gun ndoes not need survivalist

its very very ammo efficient

if i could pick any aura i'd actually probably go with movespeed

but spending 2 poitns to get there is not worth it

[balmy flume]

Power Sword/Laspistol/Shredder.
Feeling like an actual 40k sergeant lol.
(Laspistol for high Crit to ping Shocktrooper and higher stamina/mobility, and also built in suppression immunity AND ACOG sight)

[normal spruce]

Thanks all

[normal spruce]

Do I need the browser addon for this too? There is almost nothing on the dashboard

[serene bough]

Shredder grenades are hands down the most useful

Combined with the amount of grenade regen talents it's hard to go wrong with shredders

[balmy flume]

The only thing is I have to un-learn muscle memory at this point.
I still throw Shredders at a Crusher like it is a Krak nade 😅

Like there is nothing too wrong but…it is a bit weird to hear that tiny “dink” and then remember “oh wait yea I have Frags not Kraks”

[normal spruce]

Yep that's what I needed, works great

[balmy flume]

…do Frags actually force Beast of Nurgle to cough up a teammate?

If so, what is the hit zone for that to work?

As long as it is in the blast radius, or do I have to land the Frag at a specific spot?

[grand perch]

Yeah they do, never noticed that you'd need to land them close to the beast.

[balmy flume]

Yea kind of asking because I am too used to aiming precisely with a Krak nade to force a BoN cough.

Shredders don’t stick to target, so aiming precisely could instead cause it to bounce of somewhere else

(Which could then result in not getting a cough)

[serene bough]

best to just aim in the path it's walking towards

if you underhand or toss where he's retreating to then you can expect him to sit on the grenade as it blows

[vague smelt]

How does this look

[normal spruce]

So, I shouldn't try Auric until FatShark fixes the penance cheese? Are quitters that common on Auric?

[normal spruce]

Wow, beautiful

[vague smelt]

Not broken or anything

[trim hemlock]

Immense.

[vague smelt]

Only console players/below 100-200LV

I think Imma craft now a reccon 550 las gun

I need another 15K plasteel and 1M dockets

again

[vague smelt]

@woeful junco Behold my newest toy

[normal spruce]

I joined an Auric mission at the fail end-game screen, atleast I got some mats for it

[vague smelt]

Well

[woeful junco]

beastly

[idle swallow]

If I quick play into a fail screen I ain't mad, I'll take those free mats

If I'm doin exe stance marksman focus infantry las with kraks what do ya think is best for my melee, something crowd focused or armor focused

[topaz lance]

CS?

IV is braindead for hordes ans special for armor.

[idle swallow]

Yeah that's probably the correct thing, I have one with wrath/rampage and it's good for hordes I just feel a bit weak when all those crusher/mauler hordes show and my kraks are on cooldown

[bitter turtle]

mk7 shovel

mk6 knife

rashad

pee sword

[serene bough]

Id run knife with iLas

Its the most reliable armor piercing melee weapon, which is definitely necessary since iLas has no pierce

[bitter turtle]

well

i'd put shovel above it in terms of armor pierce

but knife mobility is just extremely strong and the armor piercing is pretty good yeah

hard to beat literal oneshots though @ shovel

[idle swallow]

Do I just need thrust/carapace for the shovel to one shot or do I need talents

[bitter turtle]

you need talents

they're common talents though

few builds skip precision strikes and whatnot

they help your gun and i imagine you are going left anyway

ogryn damage is needed too though prob

if you dont wanna fuss around with talents and whatever

maybe just go knife or psword

[idle swallow]

I'll probably go knife I already have too many psword builds

[serene bough]

Id recommend bringing shredders to help with horde clear

Knife horde clear is serviceable but not great

[bitter turtle]

@serene bough you know

[serene bough]

Just be sure to have uncanny strikes on your knoife

[bitter turtle]

after trying mk6 a lot and talking to others

ive started trying flesh tearer

to be honest

i have no idea if its doing much

the bleed kills are still low on the scoreboard but idk if its giving me kills i wouldnt have gotten otherwise without the bleed ticks bringin down their hp

but i dont really miss the other blessings iether that mucdh

but yeah uncanny is still king

[serene bough]

personally, I prefer the chip damage and bleed chance considering it works well with uncanny

[bitter turtle]

but i will say

i think mk6 is really really good

i like it more than 3 now

a lot more

[serene bough]

riposte and precog are good but I dont like how short precog is

im glad youre enjoying it because its my favorite personally

[idle swallow]

I think this is what I was rolling with

[bitter turtle]

grabbing invigoration on the tree really fixes push attacking

as in, mk6 being dependent on push attack

[balmy flume]

I think the only reason to be annoyed is when you are doing the high risk, high reward gamble of PUG’ing into Aurics for the penances.

[bitter turtle]

since you're guaranteed two pusha ttacks the moment you activate wep special with that node

lets me run a deadshot build with it

[serene bough]

mk6 push attack is kind of why i prefer flesh tearer, so when I run out of stamina and need to spam light attacks I can potentially apply bleed (mostly regarding bosses)

higher crit and finesse is still okay, but i also feel the same that I dont really see much of a performance difference from the 3 blessings except for uncanny

[serene bough]

exe stance has a built in suppression immunity

[bitter turtle]

with that tree, idk about knife

knife really wants right side

recip/desperado and the attackspeed nodes are pretty important

it makes the heavy -> light loop on mk6 actually rip up hordes pretty well with the boosted aspd

well actually

if you're doing the MF penance

you dont really have a choice

knife for the longer side dodges is needed for crabwalk lol

[frank monolith]

Can do push attack + heavy repeat or some say you can do heavy + heavy + light +light edit(loop it) but i dobt like that since it wont stagger all of the mobs

[bitter turtle]

you mean for horde moveset?

you do two heavies and then do a light heavy loop

you do not wnat to do the stupid overhead stab move in horde situations

its really bad

so you just loop the 2nd heavy and a light over and over

which lets you repeat the 2nd horizontal heavy

the light is fast enough of a filler move inbetween that you're throwing out tons of the heavies

[serene bough]

Alternatively you can do H1 H2 L3 L4

That'll cycle back to the first heavy attack

[north pebble]

should I replace crucian roulette with something else for this gun?

[trim hemlock]

Deadly Accuracy is one good blessing

[north pebble]

Seems fair. I only have t3 though. I'll try it out

[trim hemlock]

It’s probably good enough, Lv4 doesn’t increase drastically in its numbers (it’s 10% points)

[north pebble]

cool, it does better now with t3!

[outer wolf]

Is toughness regen still a thing for the veteran?

on curios I mean

[balmy flume]

I heard it wasn’t as good as it was?

[agile yew]

Id probably rather go combat ability instead and just spam non-stop Voice of Command and have that golden toughness going

[outer wolf]

I use to go the classic toughness + hp + gunner res

[trim hemlock]