veteran-class

[untold mulch]

[crude fiber]

They're trying to say shock trooper looks more appealing now that scavenger was nerfed

[somber axle]

I'll never get off this rollercoaster LMFAO

[junior needle]

The competition is worse so it looks better by comparison

[slow spade]

But in a misleading way imo

[junior needle]

But that doesn't make it any better

[crude fiber]

True

[untold mulch]

also Recon still has that 2 crit string

[junior needle]

But even that's not a good comparison because shocktrooper and surv weren't competing

[untold mulch]

I miss the 5 string

21 glorious days

[crude fiber]

Yeah they weren't mutually exclusive

[untold mulch]

Patch 13 be like, double dip for all the ammo

[balmy flume]

It would still be the most ammo efficient combo

[stiff cipher]

There’s no new map in this update right

[balmy flume]

Even with the nerf

[somber axle]

it's a more worthwhile talent choice now tbh because the nerf to scav aura will mean less ammo overall and more fighting over ammo tins/packs (particularly with Gunkers, Gun Zealots, T'augryn, Recon users, etc.) so anyone running Shock Trooper with ammo efficient lasguns will be enjoying their lives more compared to the average user still using the same amount of shots per kill but having less shots to go around

[balmy flume]

No new map.
Some maps are reclassified though.

[untold mulch]

Nope, though i heard they have now stuff added

[slow spade]

No just changes to existing maps

[agile forge]

Nope. Some changes to existing maps though

[crude fiber]

That was a thing? Lol that almost guaranteed another crit if you had headhunter no?

[untold mulch]

Btw why the kark Shocktrooper is still a thing when Fatshark said they didn't want weapon specific talents

Like, decide idiots

[stiff cipher]

I just want my damn steel legion back in the store

[junior needle]

You took both anyway, people didn't take surv just to not take shocktrooper

[agile forge]

Good gunkers are using assail and melee for a lot of their damage at least

[balmy flume]

We finally have multiple repair/investigation missions

For those who need to farm for penance.

[stiff cipher]

Cause we like guns

[faint beacon]

Steel Legion mentioned

[stiff cipher]

The best legion

[untold mulch]

Recon in patch 13 had a 5 shot crit string in which Shocktrooper triggered for every single one

It was beautiful

the dps was still meh

[junior needle]

Well, the 6d did

[untold mulch]

but the ammo economy was fantastic

[untold mulch]

true

[faint beacon]

Bought the parade helm when it was in shop forever ago, still haven’t taken that gas mask off

[untold mulch]

I meant more shocktrooper only being lasgun only

not that talents for guns and talents for melee

[stiff cipher]

Gonna drive me mad that I missed out on it

[untold mulch]

It hurts more to have it and lose it

Its been 7? months and it still hurts

[stiff cipher]

Is sahd innit

[untold mulch]

Indeed

[faint beacon]

I have the Tox pattern Variant where it’s that fall pattern, still waiting for the actual Steel Legion set to be in shop… one day.

[stiff cipher]

got the kreig fit tho

[untold mulch]

21 days where one Recon wasn't shit

out of a year and half of game lifespan

[slow spade]

I rolled for a good quality 6d only for it to be nerfed like 2 days later lol

[untold mulch]

😭

[stiff cipher]

Characters legs still look like a child’s drawing but still

[untold mulch]

Dude, same, I wasted SO many materials to get a close to perfect one

[brazen glen]

do you like the way it looks? i think it looks a bit odd

[untold mulch]

next day nerf

I almost dropped the game there

[winged sonnet]

wait recon nerfed?

[stiff cipher]

Only part I like is the helmet you could by separately

[untold mulch]

another reason why the crafting is dumbfuck stupid

[untold mulch]

I mean back in patch 13-14

[winged sonnet]

OHH

[untold mulch]

though scavenger got nerfed

so Recon is even worse now

[serene bough]

back in the day when recon was actually usable

for like, 2 weeks

[winged sonnet]

i find its still alright tbh

[untold mulch]

21 DAYS

[winged sonnet]

except well

survivalist nerf

lmao

[hearty panther]

it was stupid as fuck and absolutely should never have happened

bottomless recon was dumbo

[serene bough]

i hope they continue to nerf recon

its funny

[slow spade]

Patch 13 onward has been an elaborate scheme to nerf recon into the ground but slow enough that people still use it

[untold mulch]

When the low damage laser gun has good ammo 🫢

[untold mulch]

Conspiracy theory time

They are seeing how much they can turn it into shit, before at least someone stops going "Guys is actually good, you don't know how to use it"

[slow spade]

Scavenger no longer stacks with Survivalist (bots can't buff recon) + shocktrooper nerf + ammo aura cd etc etc

[slow spade]

God I remember when that one guy came in claiming that

And gaslit himself into thinking EVERY vet in the Darktide discord hasn't tried to perfect the Recon

[untold mulch]

With Recon discussion, I am mostly sure, we could have a stick with a piece of shit sticked at the point that heals the enemies

and someone will actually try to argue is actually goated and we are wrong

[serene bough]

there will always be one contrarian

[untold mulch]

fr

[untold mulch]

I remember that dude

[serene bough]

that being said, the only one I think is slightly usable is the brown one whichever mark it is

[untold mulch]

Homie thought he was him

[slow spade]

6d iirc

[serene bough]

VId has higher DPS, but it shreds through ammo

[untold mulch]

brown is VIIa

the 2 ammo per shot one

[slow spade]

2 hour argument that turned into recon trauma dumping UwU

[somber axle]

Yeah so I'm objectively worse now but the clown make up is permanent and terminal tbh. I can't stop using my Recon

[serene bough]

VIIa has less DPS but at least its ammo economy is workable

well, maybe not anymore

[untold mulch]

This chat is just a cyclical discussion that comes back to recon trauma dumping

[somber axle]

That's true! Maybe less competition for ammo with good Gunkers

[slow spade]

Facts

When can we talk about optimizing power sword and plasma again 😎

[serene bough]

not until we get our melta guns

[slow spade]

:p

Such is life

[untold mulch]

Did the 73% charge rate bug got fixed?

[slow spade]

Yeah

[agile forge]

And there'll be that one guy in matchmaking who is somehow actually a god with it

[slow spade]

Its still barely there but not relevant anymore

[untold mulch]

So many "actually having peak charge rate is bad"

[untold mulch]

I mean, if someone is a god with it

you know that mf would slaughter atoma with a good weapon

[hearty panther]

I dunno where the notion that VIIa had ammo economy comes from. It's literally two pews per pew compared to the VId in damage.

[untold mulch]

one doesn't diminishes the other

gun can be pure trash, and someone can be good with it

[somber axle]

once a day someone comes in to say Recon is bad and I come in to say "no it isn't" and then Soldier 69 comes in to say "yes it is" and we argue back and forth the topic shifts

[slow spade]

To be fair, its still there so people thought it was but its just so small its not relevant

[untold mulch]

I see

Writing notes to ignore all your points from here onwards 🗿

[somber axle]

you're welcome too

[agile forge]

Very true, but after a while you just go with what's fun and you get so good you can just so it

[somber axle]

but you can't ignore 13 ammo consumed with a good TTK on a Crusher and neither can anyone who joins my quickplay teams

[agile forge]

Imo bad weapons are just a handicap :)

[untold mulch]

That framerate is hurting me

[somber axle]

I'm sorry I used gyazo gif because idk how else to record LMFAO

I'm not a streamer or youtuber or anything and have never really had to record anything ever

[untold mulch]

Fair, but still gonna bitch until Fatshark decides to fix the fucking gun

[agile forge]

Please do, I wanna use it and I'm nowhere near on that level lol

[slow spade]

Honestly if you can carry maelstroms and aurics with that fps. I don't think any weapon matters for you

[somber axle]

carry is a strong word because I don't think I can say I'm carrying anything unless I get Scoreboard and only if I find out I'm actually doing good performance wise

[untold mulch]

I am waiting any day for Hellgun

FATSHARK YOU HAVE THE FUCKING OUTCAST ENGINEER CODE RIGHT THERE

REEEEEEEEEEE

I am losing my mind

[somber axle]

I can only say that I am not dying and things around me die very fast

[untold mulch]

the first part is already doing btter than 80% pugs

[crude fiber]

I've had top damage multiple times before using recons but I also had many times more mmo picked then anyone else

[junior rivet]

post the build cat, i wanna be a vet laser gun degen too

[somber axle]

just gotta be SLIPPERY with good dodges, blocks, shoves and keep ahead of the awful at all times with good positioning

then you can play with literally any weapon you want and be fine

[agile forge]

Most degen stuff i was doing on vet was MF/ES/Deadshot power sword6/CIAG without grenade regen

[serene bough]

recon VIIa is usable, its just that you need to gear an entire build to buff it up to a workable damage margin, and even then it'll still struggle

which, if you need to grab every buff under the sun just to make it work, i'd argue it's not very good

[untold mulch]

I remember once someone pulling scoreboard that Recon was amazing and all

And homie didn't take ammo drops

he was vacuuming them

[somber axle]

are you sure you wanna suffer with me? because ok one sec

[crude fiber]

This is also assuming your good at hitting heads

[somber axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1229149076004798524/image.png?ex=662ea148&is=661c2c48&hm=b67f830e63d912f844170f4657b899b1aec5e0754894fb5021d58664a61be32d&

[abstract moth]

So are they adding different crafting system in next update? I thought it was in this one

[untold mulch]

I hate aiming at heads so much

CENTER MASS

[somber axle]

this is what I use with my Recon VId

[junior rivet]

anything that isnt window licker plasma power sword

[untold mulch]

It was separate updates

[junior rivet]

ty, which lasgun

ok

thanks

[serene bough]

i mean, you should be anyways. recon is just a trash weapon though

[somber axle]

one sec lemme log into Darktide to show my gun

[agile forge]

Recons don't give a shit about heads i thought

Like bad Finesse profile

[abstract moth]

F, I guess we'll get it with new guns

[untold mulch]

1.4x damage, soooo yeah bad at that

[junior needle]

headhunter

[crude fiber]

I was just mentioning that cause not everyone is great at aiming and the recon definitely needs some heads shots

[agile forge]

K fair.

[faint beacon]

I realize sometimes how bad it is to be swapping to heads constantly MAINLY for Maulers, Zombie games have conditioned me to naturally aim at the head

[junior needle]

Also it's still an increase in effectiveness

And they are above average in terms of handling

[hearty panther]

i been doin it like this

[crude fiber]

It's not a double damage or anything but anything to boost its damage is good

[somber axle]

they don't but they do and it's because you want Headhunter blessing to stack crit chance to keep the crit strings rolling to keep Shock Trooper letting you get away with free shots into targets for better ammo econ

[untold mulch]

depends on your hit ratio

[hearty panther]

oh whoops, precision strikes instead of determined on the left tree

[unique sorrel]

5 minute survivalist cd seems too high

[hearty panther]

5 second

[untold mulch]

Hitting heads but missing more than body shots means you may get actually less damage

[untold mulch]

IMAGINE IF IT WERE 5 MINUTES

[unique sorrel]

my mistake

[untold mulch]

here

5 shots

every 5 minutes

canonical lasgun recharge at the sun speed

[thorny current]

even 3 seconds sounds too high to me

[faint beacon]

5 hour survivalist nerf

[somber axle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQyByVt8rw

[thorny current]

maybe 2 could be viable

[untold mulch]

it is

[untold mulch]

oof

[faint beacon]

2.5?

[unique sorrel]

vet scrounging brass casing off the ground, stuffing powder and bits of concrete into them

[faint beacon]

Idk 2.5 sounded reasonable

[untold mulch]

Honestly for 5 seconds, just reduce the % given

You are penalized for killing targets quickly

[hearty panther]

have you guys tried it

[untold mulch]

for some dumbfuck reason

[somber axle]

here you go

[junior needle]

Carapace and crit damage

[somber axle]

be warned that others have tried to play with my talent set up with Recon VId and have suffered

[thorny current]

this is the one i made during the glory days

[faint beacon]

Now roll a 380 Recon

[somber axle]

I had no control over the crit damage but I want Carapace because it's funnier to me for people to see it if they inspect my weapon

I could reroll to Maniac or Flak

I will not because this way is funnier

[untold mulch]

clearly the targets for Recon

[junior needle]

[untold mulch]

I respect that actually

[somber axle]

I know why you stare and you are perfectly valid for staring at me like I'm stupid or crazy

because I'm actually some combination of both

I'm a clown after all

[unique sorrel]

i think either 5 seconds with some kind of reset condition, like 5 ranged kills, or 2 seconds would make sense, but 5 seconds with nothing else in the game that restores ammo other than pickups, that's aggressively bringing the loss condition of no ammo closer on HISTG and such

[faint beacon]

Actual “fuck it we ball” mentality dude lmao I respect it

[somber axle]

the more I can make people wonder "what the actual fuck are you doing and how are you still alive" the more I have fun

[junior rivet]

Tyty, gonna make myself suffer when I get off work tonight

[untold mulch]

You will play discount zealot, or else

[crude fiber]

Lmao soldier hates you sneaky cat

[faint beacon]

Now sneak smokes into your build and make everyone in this chat want to rip their hair out lmao

[agile forge]

Fucking love smokes

[thorny current]

smokes is viable now because there is a penance for it

[faint beacon]

Look man I do too but I understand why people can hate them

[junior needle]

Na, I'm mostly perplexed

[agile forge]

They're like psyker bubbles

[unique sorrel]

ideally they'd stick some kind of synergy into MF that would improve survivalist if they really wanted to steer people there but idk what that'd look like exactly

[agile forge]

But they fucking blind you

[somber axle]

y'know funny enough I have an alternate loadout for that

I just don't play it often

[agile forge]

Omg you got it, delete the aura but integrate it into keystones

Different ways to generate it for each

Different aura in its place

[faint beacon]

It’s literally just, I hate these droves of gunners the grenade

[untold mulch]

could be nice

[agile forge]

Love it in the chasm terminus mid event

All auspex hack events really

[faint beacon]

The pox hounds having an aneurysm cause I threw a smoke down and my team actually stood in it the entire time

[crude fiber]

I guess they could sneak scavenger into marksman where weakspot kills on elites/specials give ammo back

[agile forge]

But yeah, MF generate ammo on weakspot kills

[somber axle]

I'm not good at knowing when and where to deploy smoke so I don't run this often

[agile forge]

FT on tag target kills

[somber axle]

but there are better smoke grenade players

[crude fiber]

Or go more thematic and make it so scavenger only proccs on gunners

[somber axle]

also you miss out on Focus Target + Target Down

[agile forge]

WS on melee kills

[unique sorrel]

yeah, like tag gets the "high" amount and a 5s cd, MF gets a scaling amount based on weakspot hits/kills, and WS gets the selfish version that only supplies himself

[somber axle]

so less damage, less stam efficiency, less deadshot uptime, less crits

overall a weaker build

but if I want to look 100% clown I run this just to scare people

and then still go through being unkillable and vomiting lasers on everything

[faint beacon]

Basically try not to throw it into melee hordes, I usually mark the area I’m going to toss one whenever there’s way too many ranged specials or Hounds

Suggest tossing it behind your group as a retreat back up

[unique sorrel]

yeah, this is good too, only taking it off promoted enemies that have firearms would fix the issue with hound swarms too

[bronze trout]

Ran out of ammo once with my mg Ia las it's gover fellas

[unique sorrel]

at the very least they could let the auras stack lol, having 2 auras sharing 1 cd is nightmare

[faint beacon]

Atoma has fallen, billions must worship nurgle

[crude fiber]

I feel like that'd be too specific for a aura though. Maybe squeeze that into keystone or make it its own talent somewhere near the bottom

[crude fiber]

Wait do they share the cool down? That's fucked up

[unique sorrel]

yeah it functions by giving each player a 5s debuff that disables survivalist once it triggers

[crude fiber]

[untold mulch]

I see the number of vets plummeting this week

[tiny summit]

[faint beacon]

Holy… Vet mains on suicide watch

[tiny summit]

Deserved! It's time for the age of ammo conservation!

[somber axle]

For what it's worth, I do not hate you and I 100% understand you. Nothing you've said is wrong but I'll be a Recon VId main on my Vet for probably the rest of Darktide's foreseeable lifetime unless they add something like a Longlas and it ends up being funnier somehow

[unique sorrel]

they should balance the rest of the auras by making it so that you can only run quickly every 5s, and that when you shoot an enemy with 5% extra damage that has a cd too

[faint beacon]

This is literally screaming I have to play WS keystone or suffer lmao

[crude fiber]

But hey 5 sec cool down buff for exe stance

[somber axle]

The things I do will not make sense and I do them precisely because they do not

[tiny summit]

Helbores may have a chance of hitting yellow

[faint beacon]

Headhunters actually running out of ammo?

[somber axle]

Also yeah Soldier 69 being the disclaimer to ward off newer players from doing what I do is good

because you will not have a good time doing what I do if you are new

[junior needle]

I do not hate you and I 100% understand you.
You shouldn't, just look at this picture of literally me.

[tiny summit]

If you primarily shoot, yes it's possible to not crit

[somber axle]

running three stam curios for +9 stam is asking to die over and over if you are new

[junior needle]

How could anyone hate this cat

[somber axle]

new players should run some combo of HP, Toughness and maybe even 1 wounds until they are comfy

[crude fiber]

He's just a little guy, and it's his birthday

[somber axle]

yeah and this is me

[tiny summit]

This machine only knows hate for recons place in the universe

[faint beacon]

Methhead toughness curios with VOC

[crude fiber]

If God wanted there to be recon users he wouldn't have made me

[tiny summit]

Cat

[somber axle]

imagine someone running VoC with triple Toughness curios

go super tanky

until toughness pops

[faint beacon]

I am that person

[somber axle]

then just fall over dead if VoC is on CD

[tiny summit]

I run triple toughness on my Exe MF builds

[faint beacon]

I have a Commissar build and it’s literally walking toughness generation for the team

[thorny current]

same triple toughness is nice

some toughness regen

[bronze trout]

I think the worst part of this update is I'm gonna have to go infiltrate and smoke bomb the first time for those sexy cosmetics from the penances

[untold mulch]

I ran 2 tough + 1 stamina

[untold mulch]

Imo

Infiltrate is goated

Use it as a clutch/panic button

[junior needle]

Facts

[somber axle]

I run triple stam on my Kantrael XII/Kantrael Mg1a build too for Deadshot and Shock Trooper synergy because after playing with 9 stam for so long it's hard to let go of it. Extra funny for walking into a downed team mate and beginning to raise them up knowing it'll take 8+ poxwalkers slapping me to wear down my stam faster than it can regen before the revive gets off

[thorny current]

sounds like dollar store VoC

[unique sorrel]

i think you get more value from sprint/blocking bonuses than curio stam, not sure though

[somber axle]

grenade?? no

I am the grenade

[unique sorrel]

depending on what you want to spend stam on

[untold mulch]

Infiltrate can be used as a reaction to "PANIK"

or to pull off a sandevistan moment of running to the enemy backline and shoot their heads before they react

[untold mulch]

though careful with infiltrate around allies

aggro shifts

hard

sacrifices must be done buddy

[faint beacon]

I read the first sentence and instantly went “you’re insane” upon seeing Triple stam, bare minimum I need 1 toughness or HP

[merry gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1153279327513886770/1229850274185613482/image.png?ex=66312e52&is=661eb952&hm=b4907f68a68bd09e374e54c4e12a9a38313cc7733547953aa5bd587a6b733e60&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

actual guardsman armor

https://tenor.com/view/2omb-prayge-gif-24836248

[somber axle]

I need to feel like even a single mistake will kill me at any moment or I cannot feel truly alive in this game

[faint beacon]

But I think I see what you’re cooking up with the stamina

[tiny summit]

Seeing a lot of stamina bars does make me feel nice

[somber axle]

sprint forever, block forever, shove forever

unless I just blew through all my stam firing in Deadshot

[faint beacon]

The talent that uses your stamina for crits, deadshot right?

[somber axle]

then dodge while I pray for the stam to come back

[faint beacon]

Yeah I can see 3 stam with deadshot

[tiny summit]

This actually looks nice

Fatshark giving players good cosmetics that aren't locked behind the premium shop? Damn. Good on them

[south garnet]

The one good set

[merry gale]

nah

[south garnet]

Savor it

[untold mulch]

I wonder how many managers they had to knock out for that one

[merry gale]

all the sets added are goated

[south garnet]

post them if you're so strong then

I haven't seen them I prefer to just assume and speculate

[merry gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1153279327513886770/1229837933125832724/dd8b5144-5fda-4245-b4e5-34f3684dffab.png?ex=663122d4&is=661eadd4&hm=5b973dee8fbddde313a552375f025c43a2089b5b974f3c77418c867d220cf95f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=929&height=523

not the whole set

[faint beacon]

Did they actually go through adding the ones with the trench coat style?

[merry gale]

just the chest

i'm not in game

[merry gale]

just above

[faint beacon]

Hell yeah

Love that style

[midnight mortar]

These were always in the pipeline. It was supposed to be in at launch. It just looks nicer without that context and next to the premium shop now.

[south garnet]

Well, it's a complex process. So much so it's difficult or impossible to even measure, really.

[merry gale]

the set they're reffereing to wasn't

was added with this patch

[untold mulch]

You could almost say ......immeasurably

[south garnet]

[junior needle]

They look better than some of the slop sets but a fair few of them are really bad looking

But not as good as the good looking premium items

[somber axle]

man

log on for the first time after the update and have a million things to unlock at the new penance girl

BUT AT LAST

[thorny current]

best perks/blessings combo for CIAG?

[somber axle]

here you go

guide says you want Flak for sure then either elite or maniac

[thorny current]

yo is that a spreadsheet?

[somber axle]

yeah but this is the old one

check pins for the newer version

[midnight mortar]

It's pinned too.

[somber axle]

the one who designed the guide made a lot of changes afaik

I have a very old version

[untold mulch]

who the hell called it the veteran guide

[thorny current]

nice, that's awesome.

thanks

alright this one is it

idk how much stability changes but i'll try it for now

[formal meadow]

Y'all notice the ash and gloamus set constantly talks about how the people that used it used dark camo...when the set is white and pale blue?

Kinda funny

[bright cliff]

light blue works better than matte black when you're constantly hanging out in underhive flourescent light

if it's pitch black then dark camo doesn't reallly matter does it

of course, you'd blend in best in throneside, while the torrent is, like, brown

[tall torrent]

There’s a new area in torrent assassination mission

[tame lodge]

I want to see Refinery Delta

[formal meadow]

I'm just saying it's funny. The armor set makes constant reference to a combat environment in which sudden shifts sudden decreases in lighting were common, and it talks about how the dark camo was prefered, only for the color choices to be white and pale blue.

Can't tell if munitorum being munitorum, or fatshark being fatshark.

[untold mulch]

both

one in setting, another irl

[tall torrent]

also old penance area is mysteriously green

[untold mulch]

necrons confirmed

[formal meadow]

Better be the shrine for the new super secret mechanicus class...

[tall torrent]

Pox Gas is by far the best mission modifier for the “gain 7500 toughness from VoC” penance

[formal meadow]

still theres still no repair missions besides the coolant one right? I JUST WANNA SERVE THE OMNISSIAH!

[flint onyx]

Didn't they change one from raid to repair this patch?

[final locust]

how is le new update

[flint onyx]

Smelter, strike to repair

[heavy birch]

Survivalist not worth taking now?

[tall torrent]

For penance no

[tame lodge]

Depending on build

[formal meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-woooo-yeah-baby-gif-24480925

[somber axle]

still worth for some builds but definitely less worth than before

[heavy birch]

definitely. wait there is a penance specifically requires Survivalist?

[somber axle]

idk

Plasma users are so much more ammo hungry now

It's funny to see

[tame lodge]

I believe we had one before

[maiden pilot]

vets, how are y’all feeling about the nerf to scavenger/survivalist?

[crude fiber]

Sounds gutted but I'm at work

[maiden pilot]

not sure why they’d do that

not a very good change for autoguns either

[midnight mortar]

In traditional Fatshark fashion, instead of applying some kind of nuance to their balancing approach they'll just nerf something in an attempt to make the other options that weren't being used "more appealing".

Failing to understand the reasons why players particularly in Aurics and Maels were using that aura to begin with.

I'm certain they'll be scratching their heads over yet another conundrum they created themselves as its usage rates don't drop nearly as much as they were hoping for.

[tiny summit]

Can't say. Still at work. Looks like a funny change they spitballed because they don't know how to live with the bed they made having survivalist exist in the first place

[tame lodge]

Indifferent, I'm used to infinite ammo builds and I know I don't need it

[tiny summit]

I'm pretty sure they know why people are using it. It's just they don't know what to do.

[midnight mortar]

If they knew why people were using it, they wouldn't have taken this particular approach to attempt to balance it.

[terse idol]

Ooh that's pretty sweeet

I guess they did listen to feedback

[tiny summit]

Because having a aura choice between "free ammo from doing what you are doing" is a tough give for any minor stat increase

[tiny summit]

Counter point: anyone is capable of bad decisions no matter of prior knowledge

[midnight mortar]

Hence why options suggested many times on the forums ranging from "integrate some form of its ammo regen into every aura or baseline option" to "adjusting the ammo regen to be proportional based on weapon rather than flat % which inevitably breaks certain weapons while making others absurdly more efficient".

[midnight mortar]

This isn't Fatshark's first rodeo.

[tiny summit]

Yea...doesn't mean they are gonna listen

[midnight mortar]

I'm not making any claims about Fatshark listening.

[maiden pilot]

if they're gonna make it 5 seconds, they should at least buff it from 1% ammo... having to wait 5 seconds for 1% ammo is crazy. especially for guns that can't penetrate and autoguns.

[midnight mortar]

I'm talking about their awareness in regards to what they balance by.

They have the information and willingly choose the worst balancing paradigms consistently. This was in response to you saying Fatshark has the information, but simply doesn't know what to do despite having it.

The reason why players use that aura would in itself inform what more optimal balancing decisions would be.

So for Fatshark to conclude that those other options are all in fact incorrect would mean they believe they know better.

Likely pointing to an overreliance or overemphasis on usage rates, similar to how Bungie tries to balance Destiny 2.

[tiny summit]

You can lead a horse to water...same thing. They can know exactly the strengths and have poor decisions.

[crude fiber]

Most of the auras are super niche tbh. They may help reach certain breakpoint for certain builds but for the most part are unnoticeable in actual gameplay. Scavenger was an outlier in that you could constantly see its effects

[tall torrent]

2.5k kills left for fire team aura

Then I can stop using it forever

[tiny summit]

It'll be funny if Fatshark ever does write "Deleted and replaced Scavenger/Surivalist"

[tall torrent]

7500 VoC toughness is genuinely a grind unless u spam pox gas missions

Regular mission I get like 300 max

Pox gas mission I get like 2,5k if I’m trying to farm

[untold mulch]

That just means to nerf Scavenger again

🤓 we are very smart -FS

[untold mulch]

It wouldn¡'t be terrible if alongside had an ammo rebalance or smth

but Fatshark looks incapable of doing either nuance takes or doing both fixes at once

[bitter turtle]

Damn

Those marksman focus buffs

[fathom wedge]

Scavenger change is poop until vet auras have the same treatment as nades in the talent tree.

[untold mulch]

Hell Recon got nerfed with the crits and they said they were gonna fix later

6 months later

[untold mulch]

Yeah, that was actually nice to read

[tall torrent]

Finished 500 tagged kills

That one was ez

[bitter turtle]

Tunnel vision looks really worthwhile now

Not that it was bad before

[tall torrent]

500 armored enemy kills with krak is actually a grind

2k enemies engulfed in smoke is way easier than that

[untold mulch]

what was that one again?

[unreal bone]

I have to ask

did they

buff

recons

in this update

finally

[winter grove]

Ok what happened

[formal meadow]

I just saw the scavenger buffs. Why does it feel like FS is so against letting the gun class be the gun class...

[untold mulch]

yeah, is pretty much 500 nades, because is weird to get more than one

[untold mulch]

KEK

[winter grove]

Anything vet related in update?

[untold mulch]

LMAO

[unreal bone]

What did they do huh?

[untold mulch]

XD EVEN

[unreal bone]

what?

[somber axle]

no LMFAO

[untold mulch]

They fucking didn't

Hell scavenger got HARD nerfed, so its even worse with a 5sec cd

[tall torrent]

I spammed krak for 3 hrs and only have like 93

[unreal bone]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-catstare-cat-stare-sus-catglare-cat-glare-gif-14942558849944709546

[somber axle]

after running a few matches in Damnation I honestly haven't noticed too much of a difference in my general Recon use

[bitter turtle]

Also ngl

[somber axle]

I have noticed plasma users are desperate for ammo tins now though

[winter grove]

Oh dang

[formal meadow]

Added a cooldown to gaining ammo off elite and specialist kills. it's still 1% ammo gain, but now with 5 sec cooldown

[tall torrent]

It’s very noticeable yea

[bitter turtle]

Surv nerf is deserved

[unreal bone]

I have some choice words

[tall torrent]

Also
I’m forced to play fire team / move speed aura for penance

[unreal bone]

I'm gonna lose it

[untold mulch]

Someone on a lead position really still onyl playing Vermintide and wants people to stop shooting

[unreal bone]

why do they refuse to buff recons

[somber axle]

my tinfoil hat theory is because they know I exist

the can't let this clown get any sillier

[bitter turtle]

Its such an outlier compared to every other aura

Should just buff the guns that relied on it too much

[tall torrent]

Because survivalist trivialized ammo unless you were playing with gunpsyker or t’augryn

[untold mulch]

https://y.yarn.co/986b2ac8-0e3c-43cd-8e4d-d3937101f296_text.gif

me to the lead designer

[formal meadow]

5% damage, 5% move speed...well, scavaneger finally has it's own 5...5 sec cooldown.

[somber axle]

Yeah now the game feels a lot more like a survival horror game. Ammo needs to be rationed properly and you need to weigh your options on what you shoot

[terse idol]

Because Ogryn exist

[tall torrent]

Also plasma is not great vs bulwarks anymore

[formal meadow]

Maybe let the dedicated gun tree do that, because it's the dedicated gun tree.

[terse idol]

This is the difficulty of

[somber axle]

Wait how so?

[terse idol]

1 class that is more gun focused

And 1 class that needs ammo to function

[untold mulch]

The only time this game has been a survival horror was with the misleading teaser trailer

[tall torrent]

The dedicated gun tree still gets to shoot a lot unless you’re playing with guns that are designed around having bad ammo economy

[terse idol]

2nd I will argue 2 of 3 vet sub classes are gun focused

[somber axle]

Survival horror is any match quickplay people queue into and find me with them

[terse idol]

And 1 ogryn out of 2

[untold mulch]

Fair

[bitter turtle]

only a few guns will actually have a problem keeping ammo up

with nerfed surv

[tall torrent]

Plasma can’t open bulwarks from front anymore, and takes like 5 shots to kill through shield (can’t cleave through shield)

Boltgun takes 6 continuous shots to open bulwark shield from the front

[bitter turtle]

honestly

[somber axle]

I was half nervous I'd need to give up my recon build with the change to surv aura but tbh it's mostly the same

[unreal bone]

My favorite gun type got even shittier

[somber axle]

I'm not really under threat of running empty

[unreal bone]

Gonna KMS

[bitter turtle]

if you mean recon

[somber axle]

wow that's a pretty significant stealth nerf

[winter grove]

Wait so basically

[unreal bone]

Just make Recons semi-useable Fartshart

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[somber axle]

I didn't read that in the patch notes at all

[bitter turtle]

i honestly think its affected less than the avg gun here

[winter grove]

Plasma and Revolver got an indirect nerf?

[formal meadow]

One tree is focused around gun. One is focused on command and control. The third is focused more on switching between from gun to melee. People mix and match to make what they want, but follow a straight path and these are the delineations.

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it was even mentioned

[untold mulch]

Recon now heals enemies and hurts you

[bitter turtle]

since your ammo economy was only half dependent on surv

other half on shock

[tall torrent]

Yes, ammo nerf is very noticeable

[somber axle]

I wonder what other gun tuning they did without writing

[winter grove]

What about CIAG

[tall torrent]

Can’t tell any

[bitter turtle]

ciag is certainly fine

[tall torrent]

Well ammo nerf is ammo nerf

If you used Columnus mk5 like it was ur primary then you’re gonna feel the nerf

[bitter turtle]

it could go with barely any pickups

[winter grove]

I never used columnus

[bitter turtle]

now you need some and/or maybe shouldnt fire brainlessly into a horde

[tall torrent]

Also

Heretic idols

We found a few

[untold mulch]

I particularly hate having to pick ammo drops beca---

oh the zealot with 2 shots spent picked hte bag
again

[tall torrent]

They’re glowing green things on edge of maps

[winter grove]

Currently the guns I use are MG1A, MG4, Agri Shotgun and Bolter

[tall torrent]

U shoot them for 40 plasteel

It’s nice

[somber axle]

I haven't seen what the idols look like yet because I keep accidentally destroying them with my grenade throws

[formal meadow]

With this and even moreso with that one lasgun ammo perk it feels almost like we're being told you better play lasgun if you wanna use the left tree or else.

[bitter turtle]

not really

[untold mulch]

now if lasguns weren't annoying af

[tall torrent]

You can play autogun and be perfectly fine with left tree

[bitter turtle]

HH autos have great ammo economy

[wanton dawn]

time for smoke grenade then

[finite imp]

well damn vets got a pretty big buff

[unreal bone]

Idols?

[bitter turtle]

I dont think IAGs have a problem either

[winter grove]

Ok fellas

[somber axle]

unironically going to use smokes with my Kantrael XII and Kantrael Mg1a forever now

smokes are really good

[winter grove]

Most important question

[tall torrent]

New hidden items around the map, destroy them for plasteel & progress for penance points

[somber axle]

I just need to learn how to use them better

[unreal bone]

Oh

[winter grove]

Poster boy helmet

[unreal bone]

So you're SUPPOSED to destroy them

[wanton dawn]

Connecting, immediately getting 32 notification

[winter grove]

Is it out?

[tall torrent]

1900 penance points to unlock

[finite imp]

Numbers cat my man

[unreal bone]

I just started the update and I'm already up to

[tall torrent]

I’m a knife enjoyer now

[unreal bone]

2100 penance points

[winter grove]

The grind renews

[tall torrent]

[finite imp]

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-di-caprio-wolf-of-wall-street-angry-rage-mad-gif-17710948

[unreal bone]

New big update and I'm already over half-way through the pass :despair:

[tall torrent]

I have 2675 penance points rn

[finite imp]

updating rn

[winter grove]

Idk how many I got rn

[tall torrent]

I need to get the new green veteran coat

[finite imp]

i imagine i already have a bunch of the penances unlocked

just cuz of stats

[tall torrent]

so peak

I need it

[formal meadow]

I use the HH autos, and the I autos too. I'm well aware that they work, but they run out of ammo sooner than a lasgun, and they have no node that specifically buffs them like las does. Why not just make shock trooper apply to any gun crit, why JUST lasguns?

[winter grove]

What about meobian 6th

[tall torrent]

Vraks7 has one of the ammo economies in the game

[somber axle]

tbh I logged on today and had over 2000 penance points so you might just have everything already unlocked when you get into the game

[wanton dawn]

SHE IS GOING TO WRITE DOWN ALL OUR PENANCES ?

Omg

[somber axle]

I already have cover art look

[finite imp]

KNNNNNNNNNNNNIFE

[tall torrent]

4500 penance points

Good luck with the grind

[winter grove]

How does it even kook

[finite imp]

https://tenor.com/view/run-running-fast-basketball-court-sprint-gif-16667898

[tall torrent]

Quite good

[winter grove]

I am not really interested in it

[winter grove]

I already sai what helmet I really want

[somber axle]

I want the chest piece

but tbh I got the cover art helmet and that's all I really wanted

[unreal bone]

The monkey's paw or something like that

they give us a stormtrooper set

but it's blue

so it doesn't match the stormtrooper helmet.

[tall torrent]

There’s a penance that requires u to retrieve 75 Grims

[unreal bone]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-mad-gif-420679338812824305

[somber axle]

don't worry they'll probably release a blue recolour for 900 aquilas in a couple weeks

[untold mulch]

I wouldn't be surprised

[formal meadow]

Also the armor makes constant reference to the dark camo it doesn't have.

[winter grove]

It's not scion chestplate

I think

[untold mulch]

900? 1400 minimum

[finite imp]

did we get the game cover helmet yet

[untold mulch]

the vet one?

yes I think so

[somber axle]

1400? it's now 2100

[finite imp]

Ayyyye

[untold mulch]

2900, special offer

[wanton dawn]

AH crap, i will need to play other class to get penance points

[somber axle]

yes

[finite imp]

issabout time

[untold mulch]

meme gun

[somber axle]

meme gun for meme cat

[untold mulch]

good point

[unreal bone]

Anyone else getting

worse fps

in game?

Like A LOT worse

[somber axle]

yes

[tame lodge]

Because 99% of lasguns are semi in this game

[somber axle]

post update I've had weird framerate drops

it's nothing too significant but it has been noticeable

[unreal bone]

I've gone from 120s to 70s on the mourningstar

[untold mulch]

I hate semiauto so much

My accuracy is trash with them

[winter grove]

HELL YEAH

[untold mulch]

I nonironically have a better hit ratio with full auto than with semi autos

[somber axle]

we can now look like the Teaser Trailer boys too if you swap out the chest and legs for the Moebian Recon stuff

[thorny current]

could be shader cache not being fully done

[winter grove]

I dont have moebian 21st 😭

[thorny current]

i usually need 1-2 rounds before it's back to normal after a patch

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-darktide-warhammer-40k-warhammer-40k-darktide-gif-12244864741850090018

I love wounded chainsword guy

[untold mulch]

Man, I wish we got that game

[somber axle]

we did it's called Auric Damnation Lights Out modifier

[untold mulch]

The prerelease info the game looked more like duck under fucking cover and hope the poxwalkers didn't notice

[somber axle]

I'm sorry for your loss D:

[untold mulch]

the mindless horde slaughter is nice, but my group certainly felt bamboozled

[somber axle]

stealth game would be funny

[untold mulch]

lights out feel more annoying than scary

[somber axle]

Ogryn needs to get painted purple to learn the ways of the Orks

[untold mulch]

except when you almost step on the DH

Not terrible, but not the vibe

[somber axle]

honestly yeah mostly because once you're running Auric Damnation consistently you're at the skill level where everything being dark is just less visibility and not much added difficulty

they need to up the difficulty on it somehow

tbh I'm more excited to try to unlock the little headset than the new cosmetics

[winter grove]

Anything else you found drippy?

[tall torrent]

There’s a new hidden area in Magistrati Oubliette (assassination, Torrent)

[somber axle]

I mean I like the Reject title and some of the new portraits are really good like

[winter grove]

Cadian

[tame lodge]

Good, the amount of BoN spawning there, it wasn't fun

[somber axle]

I don't want to swap to Cutthroat though

Loose Cannon forever

[trim steppe]

So, a bunch of class buffs and a Survivalist nerf? Seems like chat will be very happy. How's everyone feeling about the patch

[tall torrent]

It’s peak

[winter grove]

My man 🤝

[somber axle]

I'm personally very happy with everything

People reliant on scav aura to cover for bad shooting habits burning ammo or using weapons with bad ammo econ are going to struggle but it'll just take time to adapt tbh

[tall torrent]

The new cosmetics are rly good imo

[somber axle]

yeah they are

finally got the cover art and the extra new cosmetics of the blue metal stuff look fantastic

just looks as though it'll take a long time to grind out

[tame lodge]

Good actually

[trim steppe]

There was literally no reason to take anything but Scav except if you needed the talent point economy. Glad to see it brought better in line. I wonder if the 5s cd will get tweaked down the road

[winter grove]

I am worried if it will make my mg4 build worse

I've build it around shooting a lot

[unique sorrel]

lmfao my auric maelstrom progress got reset by loading into a team's loss screen

[winter grove]

Like just that

[tall torrent]

No because that gun is physically incapable of running out of ammo ever

[somber axle]

tbh there's still no reason imo because I don't think Fire Team 5% special/elite aura matters much for breakpoints (or at all?) and the movement speed aura is a meme

[winter grove]

Oh goodie

[unique sorrel]

should have played better ig

[somber axle]

with shock trooper and some crit you'll probably be better off than most honestly

[trim steppe]

Skill issue tbh

[winter grove]

Any noticeable buffs?

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus (keystone) buff

Executioner’s stance CD buff

[somber axle]

Exe Stance is 5 sec faster on CD now

[tall torrent]

Zealot’s stun buff

[winter grove]

I like that

[somber axle]

Marksman's Focus has better uptime

[unique sorrel]

it also got reset earlier on a perfect run, no deaths, downs or reconnects and pops straight back to zero

[tall torrent]

Plasma nerfed

Boltgun nerfed

[winter grove]

[winter grove]

Wait why

[dreamy spade]

They shouldve nerfed survivalist by making it apply when only you kill elite/specialist

[tall torrent]

Can’t open bulwark unless u rapid fire 6 shots

[somber axle]

Out for Blood and Tunnel Vision together might make for funny toughness replenishment

[tall torrent]

It’s not an aura then

[winter grove]

Oh that

[somber axle]

but I haven't tested it

[trim steppe]

big ooof

[winter grove]

Not that I used it at lot against bulwarka

[tall torrent]

It’s a big enough deal for veteran
Not as big of an issue for zealots

[winter grove]

But it's gonna be pain in ass

[faint beacon]

My question is it actually noticeable cause I’m so used to quickly getting 10 seeing it for 2 seconds and then it’s gone lmao, love headhunters but my god if I step in a direction at all the stacks vanish

[somber axle]

idk because whenever I run MF I just ignore the buff and play like normal

it just ends up being extra damage passively

[faint beacon]

Usually how I am

[winter grove]

Well shit, I use bolter for one of my builds

[somber axle]

it'll probably be more consistent

[umbral scaffold]

fireteam/krack nades doesn't sucks....kinda like it

[somber axle]

Krak nades are probably more attractive now that plasma/boltgun can't trivialize bulwarks

[bitter turtle]

where's the helmet for moebian 6th anyway 🤔

[tall torrent]

Way less bulwark spawn but individual bulwarks are a bit more impactful than before

[tall torrent]

1500 penance point reward

[bitter turtle]

wait

[somber axle]

this?

[bitter turtle]

that isnt the one that was shown for ogryn is it

[winter grove]

How does it look

[faint beacon]

Bulwarks went from 4k HP to what now

[tall torrent]

It is

[bitter turtle]

i was hoping for a maksed variant for everyone

[faint beacon]

6k?

Hot guess?

I just saw they buffed the HP

[winter grove]

Test it

[tall torrent]

4.8k health

[faint beacon]

4.8k?

[winter grove]

Looks worse than I anticipated

[tall torrent]

The “masked” variant doesn’t have helmet

[faint beacon]

Doesn’t sound too terrible

[somber axle]

Ooo is it a lower spawn rate on them? I had three in a single group charging my quickplay squad earlier but that might've been an outlier. They seem just as plentiful as they were before but I haven't been paying too close an eye on their numbers

[wanton dawn]

I had a group of 13 ragers or smth in normal damnation though

[tall torrent]

I haven’t seen more than 2 in a horde yet

No more bulwark patrols

[somber axle]

it looks ok with the Moebian 21st Recon stuff

[tall torrent]

And no more 6 packs

[winter grove]

VT2 finally got Bulwarks while DT finally got Poison Wind Globadiers 🔥

[somber axle]

I'd still rather use the cover art helmet for teaser trailer vibes

[bitter turtle]

am i like

hallucinating

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fwhich-loyalist-moebian-6th-cosmetic-is-your-favorite-v0-qwq4l4uavpuc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D2400%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db5b4da8f4ff6c23ee171adbf57dd3e68882f9fdd

i thought the left is what they previewed

[faint beacon]

They did say they would be adding more eventually in the future but again, in the future

[woeful galleon]

What you're seeing is what was datamined, never shown officially to my knowledge

[bitter turtle]

damn

i was bamboozled

[woeful galleon]

Yeah that's why i kinda dislike this whole thing, need to keep checking what's what

[somber axle]

there's this stuff I guess

[bitter turtle]

yeah

but that's an ugly hood

thing

[winter grove]

That ain't bad tbf

[woeful galleon]

That's just the "set" without the helmet on

[somber axle]

I kinda like the mask, goggles and hood aesthetic

[faint beacon]

Willing to put up with it, hood is ehh but mask is good

[somber axle]

I'm just wondering what I could match it with

[tame lodge]

Except this one doesn't kill their allies

[somber axle]

hold on lemme log onto my Ogryn to preview the Ogryn side of cosmetics on penances

[winter grove]

Navis Imperialis sets?

[faint beacon]

You ever get that shop set where it was like the Winter Wasteland outfits

Can’t think of the name

Gives Vet a White Coat

[bitter turtle]

i like how they buffed almost everything about MF except that god damn rending node

[somber axle]

Ogryn get it too

[somber axle]

but anyway my guess is that the other Moebian 6th stuff matching the link you shared is probably being pushed off for another update to the penance system further down the line

keep people chasing penances for more cosmetics long term

[winter grove]

Honestly

[faint beacon]

Probably will drop with the rework of crafting

[winter grove]

Poster boy helmet added

Me happy

Life good

[somber axle]

SAME

[faint beacon]

This ^

[somber axle]

OH

WAIT

[maiden pilot]

how long are we gonna have to wait until they revert/change the survivalist nerf

[faint beacon]

Look I caved and have a Figure of the Poster Boy cause the Veteran just looks good

[somber axle]

Zealot mask

no hood for them

[faint beacon]

Kinda happy they finally gave them an official name for the poster boy group

[bitter turtle]

its deserved tbh

either it should have been removed and made a global passive or toned down to not be such an outlier vs other auras

[somber axle]

Psyker version is kinda eh but tbh I've never liked the weird metal collars Psykers get so it's not my taste

[faint beacon]

Never been a fan of the blinders

[tall torrent]

doubt it'll happen

[maiden pilot]

that would be nice

[ivory rock]

I ain't played in a min so unless this was this patch did they change the atk pattern of the Mk VI Power Sword I do not remember it bein diagonal

[dreamy spade]

Welp, I'm switching to damage aura

[bronze trout]

Were getting there

[dreamy spade]

🫡

[tall torrent]

Time to start up ding my guide

[unique sorrel]

likely never, they only buff in small amounts to adjust build diversity stats, and survivalist is never going to be low usage

[somber axle]

they're probably not going to revert it and at best I imagine they might drop the 5 sec CD to something like 3 sec CD but even then I doubt they'd touch it for at least a couple months to let it play out and see the data come pouring in vs players being upset on reddit, discord, forums, etc.

[tall torrent]

@bitter turtle Rashad / power sword are gonna be really hilarious with the buffed O4B

Each melee kill gives 10% toughness

Rashad 1 hit 4 enemies is 40% toughness per hit

[bitter turtle]

yeah

buffed OFB looks fucking insane

to me

im not complaining but im also like

i already thought it was good

[maiden pilot]

understandable. not sure how i feel about it with autoguns, though. 5 seconds for 1 bullet on an autogun just doesn't seem right. perhaps it's not so bad in practice, idk.

[faint beacon]

Remind me what O4B does again, drawing a blank but I know it’s toughness related on something

[tall torrent]

Depends on the gun really

[maiden pilot]

yeah.

[bitter turtle]

autoguns were already fine on ammo beforehand

[tropic imp]

You can just stand still with brauto facetanking a horde with trigger pressed

[bitter turtle]

so they will be fine now

HHs have very good ammo economy

and IAGs probably SHOULDN'T be able to mindlessly spray everywhere without ammo pickups

[tall torrent]

Gain 5% toughness for any kill

Melee kills gain 5% on top of the base 5% for 10% toughness total

[somber axle]

if it makes you feel any better I run Recon Mk VId and the change to Surv Aura hasn't really been too noticeable to me

[unique sorrel]

tbh i think there is a line between "this is a no brainer build choice" and "this needs to be nered", it was a no brainer because it's unique and prevents ammo loss condition. it's still unique, and for a lot of people it's still going to be a no brainer to pick, just less effective at preventing that loss condition

[bitter turtle]

yes

and that's good

if people are still picking it

despite such a hefty nerf

what does it say about how it was before

[unique sorrel]

idk why you would think that

[bitter turtle]

why would I think what, it needs a nerf?

look at every other aura in the game

on ever yother class even

none of them are even remotely close to what surv does for a team

you're literally forced to take it if you want to play "optimally"

that's boring

[unique sorrel]

yeah but you're not freed up from that by this change lmao

[bitter turtle]

yes you are

assuming you want to build "optimally"

also you wont get the rando occasionally whinging that you brought something that isnt surv for their gungryn (they probably will still do this)

[unique sorrel]

how? extra ammo in crates and pickups? no. extra +ammo max talents? no. ammo is still an issue that can end a run and survivalist being worse doesn't undo that

o thats true yea 3333 ogryns will have a 8% better time with ammo

[bitter turtle]

it means you can consider other choices

without feeling like ur trolling

[somber axle]

I think it speaks more to how the other auras are just not worth picking up for the vast majority of players even considering the surrounding talent nodes by the other two auras

[bitter turtle]

frankly

i think close and kill is great

[winter grove]

Ogryn gets surv when

[somber axle]

Surv Aura could have a 10 sec CD and people would still grab it over the other two auras generally

[bitter turtle]

fire team is eeeh but it can be good for barely squeezing in a bp

[light ore]

my suspicion is that survivalist is still several orders of magnitude better than the other two auras

[unique sorrel]

i think its a huge disconnect to say that ammo is a huge deal in darktide and then say therefore we need less access to ammo

[winter grove]

AMMO IS AMMO

[light ore]

but i'll have to see how it feels in game

[somber axle]

the ammo regen is good but tbh it's just down to how small the other two auras feel

[maiden pilot]

honestly it does make you think more about whether or not you really need it in your loadout now, so i see what you mean

[bitter turtle]

how is that a disconnect

i like ammo mattering

[somber axle]

passive 5% damage feels eh but the 5% movement speed is a meme and I love the meme

[bitter turtle]

starting and finishing a game with a full ammo count without picking up any ammo packs is dumb

[light ore]

really would have preferred for them to have just scrapped the aura entirely

[bitter turtle]

same tbh

damage auras are meh just because your teammates dont give a fuck

[bitter turtle]

@ 5% dmg feeling meh

[tiny summit]

It's important because it's a resource for powerful weapons. Surv also made it a near non factor at times

[tame lodge]

Now that would have even worse repercussion

I'm down for it

[bitter turtle]

imagine building for a bp that only works if your teammate brought fire team

[maiden pilot]

i'm curious about what it'd be replaced with

[bitter turtle]

some people said reload speed

i dont mind that idea

[tame lodge]

5% stability to weapons

[tiny summit]

Fatshark would be chads if they just had a single patch that read "deleted and replaced survivalist"

[tame lodge]

[light ore]

i mean, why put more thought into it than fatshark put into any of the other auras?

[tall torrent]

It’s still better than the other auras but not by as much

[tiny summit]

Yea it's still free ammo

[light ore]

the other auras might as well not exist, whereas survavalist is infinite ammo

[somber axle]

Ok so I think I understand where you're coming from but like. Darktide is a Tide game in the same vein as Vermintide and Vermintide 2. Melee is absolutely a pivotal part of the game unlike something like Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 where you can literally play with nothing but ranged weapons. VT1 and VT2 are both much more melee focused than DT is. DT isn't about playing with nothing but your ranged weapon the whole match (unless you're a staff Psyker who wants to get jumped by the Scab Bruiser every 10 seconds) and even if you're maximizing your build for ranged focus you'll still need to dip into using your melee every so often and that's part of the game design by intent to my understanding

[wanton dawn]

new hab dreyko is lit

[light ore]

so "effectively nothing" vs "still infinite ammo" is just like

a complete nothing burger on the face of it

[somber axle]

Ammo is important to balance because they want to make sure the game is never pick up ranged weapon never swap to melee ever

[terse idol]

Well less, ywah I mean movement speed I important because of the whole

[light ore]

but willing to change my mind if i hop in game and it feels super noticeable

[terse idol]

Being able to outpace hordest

[somber axle]

and like some people could legitimately do that (even if they're eating hits from poxwalkers and looking dumb for it)

[terse idol]

I do think folks sleep on the movement speed aura

[tall torrent]

It’s very noticeable on weapons with actually bad ammo economy

[light ore]

i like movement speed aura, cause whee zoom, but it's never gonna make or break the ability to outpace a horde

you were either doing that anyways or you weren't

[terse idol]

It does

Brcause that 5% is the difference on theoty

Wether or not you can

[somber axle]

also LMFAO yeah exactly

[terse idol]

If you don't have it, you can't

[tiny summit]

My Exe MF Helbore may actually not be a psyker staff with surv change

[terse idol]

Like an of and off switch as as I understand it

[somber axle]

Fire Team just isn't worth for most people

[terse idol]

Not having a knife aside

[somber axle]

I think more than Surv Aura

Fire Team Aura needs to be reworked

it's kinda bottom tier below the speed aura

[terse idol]

Mmmm, maybe

It's the difference of just having 5% more damage vs a boss

Which isn't bad

Not the best

If youuu

Play pubs I feel like it can matter a bit more with fire team

[tall torrent]

I should also mention that

All 4 weapon skins u get from the progression track are technically remodels

[terse idol]

Because pubs don't run optimal breakpoints

[unreal bone]

Dude

Is anyone else

having problems with darktide?

2 crashes today so far

[somber axle]

5% more damage to the whole team sounds good on paper but in practice I'm not sure it has any major impact on gameplay

[light ore]

is this based on speed breakpoints?

[terse idol]

It's hard to tell yes

[slow spade]

The reason for the 5% damage aura is for better point spread anyways

Like weapon specialist users

[tall torrent]

Speed aura has better pathing

[slow spade]

Indeed

[light ore]

"what is my purpose?" "to save 2 points"

[tall torrent]

Speed aura’s pathing is actually insane

[terse idol]

Doesn't 5% actually just let you outpace pox walkers though?

[slow spade]

Its more an argument that you can path away from survivalist without throwing

[unique sorrel]

I'm not trying to undermine the game's origins. but you do get in a lot of situations where you're locked down on the melee front while taking ranged fire, to a much greater extent than happens in rat clicker, and without ammo, that is a straight up failed run. it's a bad and boring way to lose a game, and the existence of mass amounts of ranged enemies makes ammo a necessity, and this change moves the game closer to all ammo being strictly RNG-sourced, which is bad. i don't personally find it thrilling to be unable to return fire or clear a room because the number generator said no

[somber axle]

5% damage aura is ok if you're a Vet in a team with another Vet running Surv Aura already and you happen to have a near identical loadout prepped with what you want to run by talents shifted to Fire Team instead to make sure you're getting the most out of team auras

[tall torrent]

Idk I play knife

[terse idol]

[hearty panther]

fire team itself isnt even the biggest problem, it's these two knuckleheads

[light ore]

outpace walk speed or sprinting?

cause spring speed values are different per weapon, no?

[maiden pilot]

i'm done coping. i can see the reason for it all now

[maiden pilot]

me eyes are clear

[unreal bone]

56 fps

on the mourningstar

[slow spade]

Let your faith overcome reason 🙏

[tall torrent]

Change ur worker threads maybe

[unreal bone]

They di dsomething to the performance

[unreal bone]

I'm on like 13 worker threads

[tall torrent]

Out of how many total

[light ore]

don't need to take grenade recharge if i'm taking smokes for point economy

[unreal bone]

I'm on the default amount it gave me

[unreal bone]

whatever the 7800x3d has

[tall torrent]

Prob lower it

[unreal bone]

My friend is also crashing whenever he changes his victory pose..

I went from 13 down to 10 threads now.

[somber axle]

It depends tbh because like I've rarely had games where I run down to 0 ammo and I'm panic searching for an ammo tin even when I'm playing with 3 Gunlugger Ogryns all running Twin Stubbers and snatching up every last bit of ammo they see while burning it on poxwalkers. Part of the game is ammo conservation and weighing what you can and can't shoot at vs what you should and should not shoot at as another thing to make gameplay more complex. Sure you can unload your clip into poxwalkers but that ammo spent is gonna bite you when your gun is on orange ammo later

I'm not implying you do that

I do that

I'm a clown

[tall torrent]

Report it in FS forums

[unreal bone]

I did not have these performance issues until AFTEER Path of Redemption..

Really feel like they fucked up something backend

[light ore]

also realized survivalist nerf is indirect buff to throwing knives

[tall torrent]

Report it then

[light ore]

as if they weren't already the strongest zealot blitz

[tall torrent]

new weapon skins (free)

[unique sorrel]

all good i understand the abstract "you", and i know this is too high effort to simply be a skill issue argument. it's just that I feel like I'm building efficiently and playing efficiently right now, and it's still getting pretty close on most of my runs today with new surv

[light ore]

i'm getting gun mettle flashbacks

[terse idol]

Well yeah becuase it's a balancing act eh?

Thats why survivalist took a nerf

[light ore]

holly hell that's an ugly crusher

[terse idol]

Cause the devs don't want infinite ammo

[light ore]

moo cow crusher

[stable socket]

The only part I don't like is that this nerf punishes killing fast, which feels counterintuitive given the rest of the game

[light ore]

wait i actually kind of like it now

[tall torrent]

The crusher skin?

[light ore]

yeah

[tall torrent]

It’s not bad tbh

[light ore]

all it took was the word "cow"

[unique sorrel]

yeah, it's so strange. if they simply thought surv was too much of a factor they could numerically lower it, but they do this really weird change that is much more severe on higher difficulties and encourages letting elite/specials hang around your team, which is very much not optimal

[urban steppe]

finally a normal free skin

[faint beacon]

I would say like I see what they’re trying to go for which is use melee for large groups of specials but like what methhead is going to rush into a group of shotgunners, hounds, ragers, etc with only their melee as a Vet

[urban steppe]

how its looks on plasma ?

👀

[unreal bone]

Is anyone else having performance issues in game now?

After the update

[bitter turtle]

a psword user

have you guys never done no ammo mael

[somber axle]

It's difficult to weigh on personal experiences tbh. I burn ammo a lot and even spraying through a crowd of shotgunners, crushers, maulers, or really whatever the AI director puts in front of me my Recon Mk VId never feels in danger of going dry. The team is always able to push up to the next segment and we're spared the Emperor's Mercy by a couple ammo tins and sometimes if we're lucky an ammo pack laying about. Ammo becomes harder to find the faster a group is trying to progress through a mission. Speedrunning forces the group through the map with little time to check side alleys or corners for ammo/stims/nades so that can be a factor. Team mates who burn ammo on things can make ammo more scarce too. It's harder to put a finger on what's eating ammo overall and more just that Surv Aura isn't around to offset those things anymore. Whatever the reason it just means that either you've got a bad quickplay squad competing for ammo (which will be more common in the next few days to weeks with plasma/boltgun) or those little hidden ammo tins/packs are going to be worth stopping to smell the nurgle corrupted flowers for

[tall torrent]

Those are all the free weapon skins in the penance progression track

[light ore]

all??

[urban steppe]

i know im far from that , just want to see

[faint beacon]

Psword melee vet is fucked but I’m personally not a fan of the play style

Usually focus VOC buffing

[tall torrent]

Yea I only found those 4

[unreal bone]

Anyone?

[light ore]

that would honestly be hilarious if those were it

[unreal bone]

I pressed I and opened up my cosmetics page

takes me down to like 11 fps for 30 seconds.

[somber axle]

I love this set tbh and can't wait to unlock the little headset to use with the chest and legs

the commissar cap is neat but I like looking like a pilot in games sometimes

[unreal bone]

Ty @somber axle But I need help I wasn't posting the pic to show fashion ;-;

I was posting cause I am experiencing performance issues after the update

wanna know if anyone else is also

[somber axle]

Yeah I'm sorry I just couldn't resist because your drip is nice

if it makes you feel better I've also been hit with framerate drops so it's not just something on your end

and I've seen others mention framerate drops post update too

if Fatshark isn't aware yet they definitely will be

[unreal bone]

Okay I just wanted to know if it was me

I've crashed twice today

which is more crashes I've had today than the past months

[somber axle]

the only thing I can think to recommend is the verify game file integrity thing on Steam

[unreal bone]

I did that

already

runs like SHIT still

[somber axle]

it must be something else as the cause

if that doesn't work it's above this cat's head